Feb 17 2014 11:49am

Lost Girl Season 4, Episode 13 Discussion: No Way!

Bo and Lauren in Lost Girl 4x13, Dark HorseLast night's Lost Girl was the season 4 finale, so of course there were surprises and many questions left unanswered in anticipation of next season.

Here's the synopsis:

Bo is forced to make the hardest choice of her life when an unthinkable sacrifice is the only thing that can stop a supreme evil from wreaking destruction on her world.

So—what did you think? Judging by Twitter last night, there were many, many thoughts on everything that went down. Discuss!

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1. jdknight
Kenzi died. Bo late; restrained by Dyson. Trick watches. Kenzi taken to Valhalla by Tamsin. Will be brought back to Earth (as valkary?)by Bo in season 5. Very brave and dignified act of self-sacrifice. Lauren too busy with Evoney to help save the world. Rainer killed by Massimo who is killed by Bo. Great ending.
Marie Sullivan
2. minime2
I feel like season 5 (if they get one) will be a rehash of the Kenzi Scale and we know how well Bo learned her lesson about ignoring Kenzi after that episode..... -_-
3. TheUberFan
So...yeah. Kenzi's gone. They're pushing Doccubus hard and over packing Lauren's background, ignoring Tamsin and trying to set the table for Tamsin and Dyson. All to protect the precious.

So I might just be done. lol Too many plot holes. Too much fan service. And I don't really care for shows that cater to bully pressure.
Susan White
4. whiskeywhite
I can't say that I could could resist watching LG. As long as KHR is there, I'll be back. Plus I have to admit to a touch of Canadian nationalism. Am looking forward ot the return of "Continuum" in a month. And "The Listener", with KHR as a new dad. Bitten I'm less impressed with.

It's perhaps an unfair comparison -- of course it's totally unfair given the undoubted difference of budgets -- but the dissatisfaction I feel with much loved LG is so strongly contrasted when I come away from the joy of watching BBC America's Sherlock. After an episode, all I can say is "Oh my god, that was wonderful." If I smoked, I'd be looking for a cigarette (to quote one of you lovely folks).

Speaking of Sherlock, in "The Empty Hearse" there's a group of conspiracy fanatics who reminded me a bit of us -- they gather to dicuss theories of why Sherlock is not dead and how that could be. Of course, they're portrayed somewhat as weirdos, which we are most definitely NOT. A bit overly detail oriented perhaps :-), and fond of speculation.

To return to this episode. I did love Tamsin's wings. It was lovely how they wrapped Kenzi like a beautiful embrace. And, speaking of details, we finally learn Kenzi's last name -- Malikov.
5. Bore-mudaTriangle
They always push Doccubus hard. Even when there isn't a relationship to talk about, they seem to make it all about them. Next season better have loads and loads of Tamsin. She's been ignored most of this season and it's sad. I loved her wings and how emotional she became over Kenzi, you can tell they have a really close relationship. Kenzi will be back (she better) because if not they just killed their show.

The fan service (especially with ships) needs to stop, completely. They only make fans mad and lose them when they do that. If Bo wants Lauren, okay, then stop making her kiss Dyson and Tamsin and whoever else. Stop making it seem like it COULD happen, only for it to be killed by another Doccubus moment.
Nadine Robb
6. cmm
For me, it's not the fact that Bo saves her. It's the fact that bo HAS to save her and is consistantly written that way. People say that her agency is impeded by Bo saving her, I say she impedes Bo agency. Bo cannot do anything without having to constantly bail her out. I also think it was a slap in the fact to Bo that as she's trying to save her she's already wrigglign her way out of the cuffs. Revealing she could of done that the whole time!!! It's annoying. She could of escaped sooner, there was no reason for Bo to get her at all. I also find it somewhat disturbing that Lauren is like a sponge learning all this stuff about how to be a shadow thief, how to pick locks etc, but none of the other characters are ALLOWED to learn something from her.

That whole scene between doccubus was unecessary. It highlighted precisely why they don't work. Especially the hippocratic oath comment. I feel like she's ignored that consistently. Lauren is not a dr she is the equivalent of a mad scientist. I'm hoping (although I don't think that it will happen) that she has a major smack down next year. As for EA's comment about Dyson being afraid, I don't think she would have the guts to do that. If she did kill him off it would effectively end the show. Although she might want that.
7. nypinta
The majority of the episode was just to face down Bo's dad, except she didn't actually do that, did she? She arrived just in time for Kenzi to do it for her. Prophecy or no, Bo was almost too late. If Kenzi hadn't figured out that text and done what she did, Daddy dearest would be circling the night sky right now.

I get that the good guys always save all their friends and don't leave anyone behind, so I don't actually mind her going after Lauren first. But they could have kept Massimo back for next years big bad. Or have the Origin Seed turn him full fae which would have been a hilarious reversal for Evony, her being human and the son she always thought of as useless suddenly being the most powerful fae. I would have preferred if they rolled back on the mommy whining some too. But having Bo use her power, and her mastery of it, against him was fun.

Someone was paying attention though to some continuity, because when we first saw him and Lauren, he had her bound with those plastic swift tag like things that can't be lock picked. Then later he put her in those manacles, which is something she should be able to lock pick, as she herself indicated. However, I didn't like her mentioning Kenzi's shadow thieving like she was learning it too, because it's almost like she's taking Kenzi's thing. Dyson offered to train Kenzi and Kenzi alone. Lauren has already been established as being able to pick locks, so why throw that in? Same with the previous episodes declaration of doing everything for Bo. It is perfectly logical for Lauren to have a change of heart in her decision to break up with Bo, and have her say so. But to pretend like everything she's been doing for the whole season was some grand plan to help Bo while at the same time staying away from her makes zero sense and that is why it feels shoehorned in and not a natural progression of emotion from love to realizing something was broken to being apart and finding that to hard and wanting to try again. Why not have Lauren explain that she was too blinded with her desire to get revenge on the fae for all that had happened to her instead? It would have been a nice parallel for how Bo was blinded by her desire to find out what happened to her on the train. But whatever.

Not sure how I feel about Dyson's swearing of fealty. It was a sweet, heartfelt moment, but still a bit... I don't know.

The finale battle was way better than the Garuda battle. But the Garuda battle was kind of pathetic so... But could someone explain why the remenants were fighting each other? Were some Bo's and the other's Daddy's? I don't get it. Dyson & Tamsin should have been surrounded by a zombie horde all gunning for them. Because it was a little odd to have them surrounded by fighting yet have enough time for conversation and watching Kenzi walk into Mount Doom. Loved that Trick jumped into the fray as well. They should have had some of those horse women there too. Against, for? I have no idea.

I still don't think Rainer is gone for good. I think he was supposed to die so Bo's father could use him. And I think Tamsin taking him to Valhalla was part of it. Then she takes Kenzi and sees what he's already done, which is why Tamsin doesn't want Bo to go after Kenzi. Or as I said in the previous thread, he saw what Kenzi was going to do and that Bo was going to come for her and knew he could get back out too then. Why Tamsin doesn't want Bo to go will have to wait till S5 before they'll say.
Nadine Robb
8. cmm
@bore-muda triangle. You are right about them putting them as a couple, but they would never ever do that. It would effectively tank the show sooner and leave them with the only fanbase they care about which would not pull in enough ratings. I find it ironic Tasmin was brought on not to be a love interest for Bo yet, someone through a few short scenes she has established herself as someone who could possibly be a love interest for Bo. That speaks volumes to me about the strength of doccubus. I feel like in every doccubus scene they need to write the script in such a way to make it appear they do have sizzling sexual chemistry. Yet every other character that comes on just sizzles with Bo no additonal writing is needed.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
9. Kiersten
The Remnants were fighting each other because, as Bo had instructed Dyson, Tamsin turned her doubt power on them so that they would turn on one another. How you get a zombie to doubt itself is another thing entirely. It tripped me up for a second too, and then I saw that Tamsin's eyes had the doubt shadow going on and I remembered what Bo had told Dyson to relay to Tamsin.
10. TheUberFan
It was a weird moment for me, @Kiersten, because they had established the only way to control revenants was to drink the blood of the head revnant. How could Tamsin create doubt in beings who lack the ability to discern or feel?In zombies?
11. nypinta
Ah. Ok. Zombies feel doubt. Gotcha. Makes total sense.. uh as much as a lot of stuff on this show does..

I still think some of the horse women should have been there too. But against who I'm not sure. Seems they believe though that Bo can kill him, so maybe they should have let him come to Earth.
joe dime
12. jdime
I'm convinced that this showrunner, EA as you call her, doesn't know how to write about men at all in a way that appeals to guys watching the show. There is nothing appealing about any of the male characters except for Vex, and he's more like the gay best friend kinda thing. There are so many plot holes this season that I can't figure out what the hell is going on. Lauren annoys the crap out of me. Gramps is still holding back secrets even though the end of the world is nigh. The writers make the least and worst possible use of the best characters. Best thing they could do for the whole series is kill off Lauren for good and force Bo to go to a shrink 3 hours a day, 7 days a week, for a couple years, so she can work on her decision-making abilities.
13. Bore-mudaTriangle
@cmm I agree. That's what kind of pulls me into the possible Tamsin/Bo relationship. They've not had much dialog in a "romance" or "interest" sense at all or had sex, only a few kiss scenes, and yet they have the potential to be in a relationship.

I always feel they are just going to keep going the Doccubus route. Even if they don't put them in a permanant relationship, I feel it will always be their endgame with a few fan service moments in between.
Nadine Robb
14. cmm
@bore-muda triangle That's the general consensus. They don't care at all.
joe dime
15. jdime
justr curious, any lostgirl discussion sites like this one that do not focus as much on the romance end of it? not a criticism of this site at all, just wondering.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
16. Kiersten
@Jdime - there are LOTS of Lost Girl discussion sites out there. Give Google a whirl. Many of our commenters are recovering posters from some of those other sites, but everyone finds there own place where they find it. While H&H is a romance community and we do talk a lot about the relationships on Lost Girl, we also talk about plot and characterization and story structure and all kinds of other aspects of the show. H&H didn't start the Lost Girl recaps and community to talk only about its romances but because we like to obsess over TV shows almost as much as we do over romance novels. And as almost every TV show has a romance element to it at some point given that love is what ultimately drives most human beings, it all just ties together neatly.
17. EvonyFleurette
Just WOW. They killed off the one character absolutely everybody likes (not even Bo is liked by everyone right now). And I'm kind of glad they did because Kenzi is the only character Bo would do absolutely everything to save her. And this season has had many missing Benzi moments (and that's major fail), so it will be nice is season 5 is about the two of them.

I LOVED (as always) Emmanuelle Vaugier, I'm glad they somehow redeemed Lauren by saying that she owed her because she had turned her into a human, because I didn't like Lauren's behavior with Evony at all last ep, but I think I can be reconciled with her now. It was nice to have some comedy (Evony being human).

The shipper thing has to stop, really. And Tamsin has to really come back (the old Tamsin). If they put the two of them together I wouldn't mind, Lauren can be with Evony -wich would be way more interesting btw- and Dyson with someone who deserves him better (sorry, I can't forgive Bo since ep 6).
joe dime
18. jdime
Can you maybe give me a list of some of the better boards?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
19. Kiersten
@jdime - I can't, I'm sorry, as I've never been to any of them myself. Moderating this one is work enough for me. But I'm sure if any of the others know of any, they'll share them.
Marie Sullivan
20. minime2
jdime check out IMDB but IMO this one is the best. :)
21. Bore-mudaTriangle
@jdime I don't know of any besides this and the Showcase blog. But to be honest, I think most blogs for this show will always have a lot of focus on the romance aspect. If it's not someone arguing over what ship happened that episode, it's that there's not enough of another ship, or just people inserting ship-related things because they want to. The ships are a big part of this show (bigger than they should be, which is probably why the storyline went down the drain) so I think there will always be a lot of focus on the romances.
22. newgirl
Just saw the chapter... way too vague for me, though i must say Ksenia WAY TO GO!!! but i didn't like the whole "safe the doctor and leave kenzi behind, anyways she doesn't want to see massimo get killed at all, and besides she is safer with an endless army of zombies form Hel than going against massimo with a full plan created by Evony and Trick, no Kenzi is way much safer with the outnumbered ones". Rainer hope they give him some role next season, because this time his aparition was a complete nonsense, if they want it to bring piryppus, open the portal, give tamsin some redemption for past events or even give significant to kenz in the series they didn't have to bring a new player just to be killed, no way, i think he will be back next season otherwise what a waste, never like him, but what a waste to have an end like that, i think dyson/tamsin is gonna continue, i kind of like it even more since Bo aparently choose Lauren again, and i hope they bring Kenz back soon, even after what tamsin said. i couldn't believe how selfcontrolled was Bo with kenz death, i don't think it was Anna Silk i think it was EA who made it that way, she could have Bo ranting at Dyson "why after she told him to keep her safe" because Bo didn't knew anything about the prophecy, not even Dyson did, only Tamsin and Trick for what he said, but no, she just stood there, even tamsin went running to Kenz corpse side, i really though Bo would be a little more emotive, but EA choose to give us a "shocked Bo". Not too keen of this chapter, everything seemed to me was made for by force jumping from one scene to another, even that scene when tamsin was talking to kenz, and out of the blue they bring "That was that bitch" Best part from ALL CHAPTER Kenz walking to the gate.
23. Quella
Can I just point out that Kenzi's grave said 1991-2014 so if i am correct Kenzi died at the age of 23. The show started in 2010. In 2010 Kenzi would be 19. But this whole time Kenzi has been drinking a Russian. Yet Bo never called her out on thefact that shes under the age of 21 just saying. Especially since Bo is nearly a decade older than her.
To be like 20 Kenzi was pretty responsible.Maybe bo should have taken a tip from her
Suzanne Metaxas
24. SuzyM
OK, I am happy for Kenzi because she got to be that important person for the sunshine gang. She has always wanted to be the one to do something to save the others. I think that is why she turned and gave that half smile as she walked to her death. She was getting to be the hero and she was hoping Hale would be waiting for her in Valhalla. My heart broke for Dyson, that last thing he wanted to do was watch his little sister walk to her death to save the world. If he thought for one second that he could have sacrificed himself instead it would have been him walking through the portal.

KHR played Dysons agony so well I was crying for him. If they play this next season with Bo blaming Dyson I am done with this show. Dyson has shown more love for Kenzi than Bo has in a very long time.

I am so done with the way they write Lauren in this show. ZP deserves so much more, they are making DL cartoonish at this point. I really thought they were going to bring the triangle together and let it function with Dyson and Lauren friends and sharing Bo as a lover. Guess I believe in the tooth fairy too :(

I'm going to be watching S5 to begin with but if it stays as poorly written as it is now I don't see me making it to the end of S5.

I am so hoping for KHR to find a new series to join that will showcase his talent and give him some good scripts to work with. His talents are really wasted on this show the way it is written now :( Maybe a move to Orphan Black??? I can hope can't I ;)

With the big hype leading up to this finale I expected so much more, Steak at the very least! Instead I got imitation beef :(
25. nypinta
@Quella, The drinking age in Canada is 19. Plus Kenzi has been on the streets since she was, what, 12? 13? I can't recall what age. So I don't think being legal about alcohol is a top consideration for her. ;)
Marie Sullivan
26. minime2
Can I just point out that Kenzi's grave said 1991-2014 so if i am
correct Kenzi died at the age of 23. The show started in 2010. In 2010
Kenzi would be 19. But this whole time Kenzi has been drinking a Russian. Yet Bo never called her out on thefact that shes
under the age of 21 just saying.
The drinking age in Canada is 19.

@Jdime the AV club used to do non ship based recaps and talks but they stopped mid last season and said that the show had declined too far to review any longer. Actually after 3.01 they were so grossed out they only hung on till 3x03 and stopped reviewing it. I have a feeling that after this season Keirsten may feel the same way. I am a refugee from IMDB, Syfy and spoiler tv, I was brought over by Isbloom who's comments I have been saddly missing.
27. Quella
Also did anybody think she was older? I went in thinking that she was at least 22 when the show started. I also think it's quite cute too actually. Here they have 1000 year old fae, 3o somethings and shes only 23(current) its like she's a baby to them kind of even though she is badass. Also anybody wonder why they never celebrated Kenzi's birthday on the show. They celebrated Bo's in the second season.
Marie Sullivan
28. minime2
They never gave her an age, KS and ML said in season 1 that she was a street kid who was 16-20.
29. JDKnight
Kenzi's grave says:

As a woman her surname would be Malikova - something of which many of those would be well aware. As Tamsin took her body to Valhalla there should have been nothing to bury.

She said that she will meet Bo again in Valhalla so it appears that Kenzi will be back but no longer human. On the Showcase blog it is suggested that Bo and Kenzi are blood systers / half-sisters - that would explain a lot such as the immediate bond between them in season 1 when Bo saw Kenzi in the bar and Trick's smile when he first saw Kenzi.

Kenzi has been the real heroine of the whole show and her death is, apart from the initial meeting of her and Bo, the most important event thus far just as the relationship, as admitted by both women, the most important bonding.

Kenzi's age came up when she met Nate - her 6 year old fantasy. Bo called her Mackenzie during the Dawning.

When Kenzi returns she will not be the 'weak little human' that she so despised but will be 'Super Ken' and possibly the equal of Bo and Tamsin - the other baby Fae. I assume that the Dark King has got her in order to use her as leverage over Bo

Kenzi has been a dark horse throughout the series - she has displayed Fae abilities at times and has been thought to be Fae - the Cyclops called her a nymph. With all the stealing and loss of memories in the show it is possble that she was Fae and had forgotten it and that her true power is still growing. That would explain the fondness that so many Fae display toward her - the Morrigan and Ash II both treated her like a child and not as a despised Human. She had obviously had dealings with both of them at some earlier time.

Her parentage and history are largely unknown, apart from the fact tha they are neither very nice nor very honest.

Her sacrifice was the highlight of season 4. Ksenia Solo is easily the best actor / actress on the show and really brings Kenzi to life. Lost Girl without Benzi will not be worth watching and Kenzi will have to be brought back. There will have to be a 5th season since it will be too cruel to the fans to end the series on season 4
Kiersten Hallie Krum
30. Kiersten
@minime2 - do you know what happened to @lsbloom? I've been wondering where she got to for some time.
joe dime
31. jdime
Thanks for th tips to other sites. I agree with many of you and am getting disgusted with the show too. I never bought into Bo as a main character, I don't think the actress pulls it off well enough, nor is the charater particularly well written. I watch the show for the other characters, and I like all of them, except for Lauren. (though Dyson could grow a pair and---the write him like a mopey teenage girl in a teen vampire novel, pining for her man). But they keep killing off the interesting characters.

Here's a theory--the main bad guy was supposed to be the dude on the train, but the show wasn't renewed for the next season yet as expected, so they got worried and changed it up, made a bigger badass dude whose arc on the show wouldn't be completed by season's end, and killed off the most popular and beloved character on the show---so that they have the ultimate cliffhanger and the fans DEMAND another season. It would explain the mile wide plotholes too, to some extent.

The showrunner/writer lady should be fored, then drawn and quartered.

Also, am I alone in wanting to see a spinoff show based around the time of the Bloodking, with the wars and all? I mean, everything interesting in this show stems from that time period. We'd see Trix half evil, Dyson, a young Vex, sword fights, sorcery, castles, and all that stuff. Most everyone would still be around, except no Bo or Lauren, thank god.
33. nypinta
Ship is short for relationship. Because the writers decided that Bo's succubus nature also means she supposed to be in love with multiple people at a time, various "ships" have sprung up in the fandom. And despite the fact the show's original mantra was that teams sucked and lately has reinforced the idea that lables are things one should avoid, the fans that root for the various ships instead have sort of retreated behind various lines and lob nasty comments at one another like we're all at war. And the writers don't seem to help because they keep putting in scenes that are contrary to the storyline or outside of it completely that caters to a "ship" and then are surprised when the fans of that relationship get mad that it isnt' built upon and Bo and whatever character (Dyson, Lauren, Tamsin, Ryan, Rainer, etc.) aren't together forever and the rest of the fans in the other ships call them out on it being bunk. It's really tiresome actually.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
34. Kiersten
I'm still having problems posting GIFs to Twitter, but this was pretty much my expected reaction to the finale overall.

Susan White
35. whiskeywhite
@SuzyM, my new slogan is "tooth fairy-believers of the world unite!" :-) I'd have been fine with a happy triangle scenario, but I never thought they would go there.

Interesting point, @nypinta: Dyson's swearing of fealty (to Bo). It was a sweet, heartfelt moment, but still a bit... I don't know. I'd love to hear what you think it was that bothered you. I think Bo captures an important point when she says, I want you fighting beside me, not for me. They have always been equal partners in the past.

@Quella, interesting that you bring up the alcohol issue. I have no problem about the legal drinking age issue. Actually the legal drinking age in Canada is set by each province. In many provinces it is 19 but in at least three, including my own, it is 18. My problem, and I have written about this before, is with the amount of drinking that goes on LG. By everyone. And it's very often portrayed as a way to deal with emotional problems. In season 1, when Bo is rejected by Dyson, Kenzi's answer is for them to get drunk. In season 2, when Dyson loses his love and cuts off Bo, the solution is again drinking (although ice cream is a back-up remedy :-)). When Lauren confides in Dyson that she and Bo are "on a break", Dyson insists they have shots. When Dyson confides in Trick that he has his love for Bo back, Trick insists they can't have the discussion without drinks. Etc. This is not a helpful message for young people, especially as risky drinking is skyrocketing among young women.

Kenzi may have been the youngest of the group but at one point she and Bo had an exchange about who was acting like whose mother and Kenzi says something like, "I have always been the mother here." She is certainly the much more worldly wise of the two when she meets Bo.
joe dime
36. jdime
Thanks for the definition of SHIP. and for what its worth...

Kiersten Hallie Krum
37. Kiersten
@jdime - I'm not paying any attention to that. At this time, everything is rumor and conjecture and emotions are high after last night's finale, which doesnt help.
38. stacymd2
Hi All. I have some news that you may want to take with a huge block of salt. Everything is just rumors at this stage. This has nothing to do with Lost Girl, but does back to what we were talking about in the last recap...

Star Wars: Episode 7
Shooting is supposed to begin in Mid-May and run through September of this year. Casting rumors are all over the place. The script has been overhauled to focus on SW's original trio. According to the Hollywood Reporter some actors who had been in talks for roles thier characters have been "nixed" or reduced to supporting roles due to the new focus.
A confirmed cast list will be out in the upcomming months.

Let's cross our fingers for our dear KS.
39. JDKnight
There is a lot of underage drinking in a lot of series - look at Vampire Diaries - the kids there were not even 18 when they were shown hitting the vodka
Suzanne Metaxas
40. SuzyM
Why do the Lost Girl writers believe that they can hand us such tripe and that we will still be faithful to the series? Do they honestly have that much disrespect for us? I can't believe how they could hype this finale and really feel we would be greatful for the load of crap they handed us! The more I think about it the angrier I'm getting :( I'm at a loss for words right now :( grrrr
41. J.Fall
Maybe you should change your name WhiskeyWhite if you're so concerned about the promotion of alcohol. :) I think they wanted to give the show a seedy underworld feel it's not a health promotion ad. Besides the Dal is one of the permanent sets.

It was a rotten plot wasn't it. It felt like someone pulled back at the last minute and changed the rules. Rainer just fell into the discard pile.

I can understand Bo feeling a bit unsure about Lauren but she clearly loves her. Putting on the necklace and leaving the main event as the hell mouth er portal opened showed her priorities. Probably a bit of a sop to Doccubus after leaving Lauren in the Taft complex in S3 after a cursory look around her and saying ...Nope, not here.

What, however, is she doing with the others. Rainer ... what was that?
Dyson ... oh please have a fling with Tamsin and work through your manly Bo angst with her. Keeping on offering her fealty, Chi, la-di-da and getting a pat on the head is so not where you should be. Trouble is the Tambo fanbase are drawing in all troops to shriek on Showcase to make sure that doesn't happen so hard luck mate, if they get their way you'll be shafted again.

I don't agree that Bo and Tamsin evolved naturally, it was promoted from Episode 3.2. Tamsin was brought in to shake up the triangle, Has Tamsin shown any skin yet? It's very unusual not to in LG. Her history/plotline seems to have gone to Lauren, who now is projected as having past ties to Bo in some way according to EA.

Will we get a Season 5, signs point to yes but they may not get Syfy money. It seems to be getting sexier on the girl front and the language has become more colourful so I'm thinking maybe they've toyed with the Syfy fanbase but decided to keep in Canadian.

I'm not sure why the writers can have a little space every week for plot development. Clues that mean something. It just would make for a better show. I mean it's a rickety vehicle until the next sex scene but it still needs wheels to get where it's going. I don't mind it being ridiculous, I just want it to make sense.
42. nypinta
They continue to be a bunch of alcoholics on TVD. The parties and drinking is a character in itself on that show. And the total lack of parental supervision. Actually, I think the only one with a parent left is Caroline. So she's a goner soon... It's so awful it's hilarious. But the rules of magic almost always follow a logic. Nature demands a balance. They burn through plot on that show so fast I can't believe they have any left. It's truely astounding. I find it hilarious. I love that damn show.

@whiskeywhite I guess it was the subserviant nature of it. I did appreciate Bo clarifying their relationship as equals not as of leader and follower. But his swearing of feality sounded half of a warrior pledging to a Queen and half marriage proposal/vow. It was portrayed beautifully. Until the hug. I mean.. a hug? Come on. I think I said it here, but I'll repeat: I find it interesting that Dyson swears fealty to Bo when he's already supposed to be Trick's man so I think this means he has quit Trick and no longer will answer to him. (I kind of think he should have told Trick off last season, but that never happened.) But also like I said somewhere else (I think) if they keep Trick as acting Ash of the Light then Dyson will be back to the same position he was in before, a man with two bosses since he till works for the Light as enforcer. But Bo is back to being unaligned. What does it mean that a Light has just sworn feality to her? Because I bet Tamsin would swear it too. That would not go over well with the Elders. And Trick, upholder of his own laws even to the detremint of his own family, is once again in a position of having to enforce those laws... what will he do?

Not sure I actually ever said it but I liked this episode. There were some bobbles of course, (aren't there always), and I think they tried to do too much in one episode. I really think they should have either taken Massimo out last episode or left him to be dealt with next season. Lauren should have dosed Evony a few episodes ago and had her humanity come upon her slowly to culminate an episode earlier so that the final episode could focus on Bo and her father. I get that they needed Bo to go after Lauren so Kenzi could Buffy herself, but they could have come up with another reason to delay Bo. Or have her slowly succumbing to the power of her father while on the battlefield and this time Dyson can't pull her back so Kenzi decides then to take the dive and just before she goes in Bo comes back to herself to see Kenzi die.

The other problem are all the unanswered questions. Mostly how none of this jives with the image Bo saw in her Dawning. A lot of the other unanswered questions are clearly for next season. The Helskor shoe, what Levi said, Tamsin's comment about not letting Bo go to Valhalla, what happened to Aife. I have a feeling nothing is really going to come of Lauren's dosing Evony and making her human because Evony is going to find a way to get her fae back and she'll just chalk it up to one of the many things someone has done to her that she survived. Vex shoved Evony in a box for several weeks and took her eye. Other than her one attempt to get Bo to bring him in she didn't bother with him after that. He was running around faetown unmolested for weeks. Evony had plenty of time to get even with him if she wanted. She seems almost amused by her situation. BTW, how does a fae not get a wedgie? How is that a human only issue? Clothes fit fae differently? I don't think so.

BTW, why didn't Bo and Lauren take the twig and give it back to Kenzi? Or leave it with Lauren so she'd be safe while Bo went off after her dad? It's a pretty important relic to just crumble it up on the spot out of annoyance with previous wearer. Going up against an uber evil it might not suck to have a little fae mojo, you know.
Nadine Robb
43. cmm
@JFall I have to disagree with you about Tasmin being brought in for shaking up the triangle. Tasmin was brought in to find Bo, and watch her. There was never any interest in her becoming involved with Bo romantically. It was something that just came out of the chemistry between them and through her getting to know Bo and the happy sunshine gang better.
Carmen Pinzon
44. bungluna
Making sense seems to be low on the list of priorities for the show runners. DRAMA and ACTION , with no adult conversation or thoughful behavior, seem to be the rule.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that KS got the part in the movie and gets to move on to greener pastures.

Again and again, Bo puts aside whatever she's doing to go WanderMengeLauren sniffing. She abandoned Kenzie in the last episode to go off with Rainer, but when it's the end of the world, all must pause for her Doccumoment. Please.

I've lost all patience with Bo and Lauren. Maybe curiosity about the fate of Kenzie could pull me back, but knowing how EA and Co. relish yanking our chains, and cognizant of the fact that drawn out plots are not in her skill set, I won't endure another full season of such tripe.
Susan White
45. whiskeywhite
@nypinta -- re: Dsyon pledging fealty to Bo: exactly what I was thinking, and well put:
it was the subserviant nature of it. ... his swearing of feality sounded half of a warrior pledging to a Queen and half marriage proposal/vow.
And he emphasizes, "forever." I have no idea what it means for his allegiance to Trick. Probably nothing. It's fan service. Waiter, I'll have another serving please.

@J.Fall, when I first joined this group I mentioned that I had considered RumWhite as my screen name but it lacked alliteration. :-) I have nothing against alcohol (I'm a drinker of rum, the Cuban kind). I do think that showing drinking as a solution to emotional problems is dangerous. But in this LG is probably reflecting existing ideas and patterns, including among young people -- the Vampire Diaries comparison is useful @JDKnight. I'm sorry to sound so boring and preachy about this but I watched alcoholism bring unhappiness and sickness into both my parents' lives. And now liquor manufacturers and retailers are targetting young women with "skinny" vodka, etc. just as cigarette makers sold women on Virginia Slims.

OK, end sermon.

Former LG actors continue to pop up. I saw Clé Bennett (the first Ash) the other night on Beauty and the Beast. I fear he's going to get beastified and his role will be short lived. Poor guy. Got no luck at all.
46. nypinta
I think Rainer's comment to Bo about both of them being manipulated means that both of them recognize that they were bespelled by Bo's dad, including their instattraction on the train. Actually, I think maybe both of their memories had been altered to see all the lovey dovey stuff just so they would get handfasted as soon as they got back to the real world, which is the trigger to set Daddy-o free. So Bo's memories of being upset at the mark and throwing the crown were really real, the memories Rainer triggered by touching her mark were implanted in both of them.

So next season I still think Rainer might make a return. And although he (the original Rainer, Rainer the Defiant) had feelings for Bo, he isn't still thinking they're destined or anything. He'll be an ex. Or he'll be outright evil, the meat suit for Bo's father, so the destiny stuff will be moot anyhow.

Because the triangle is back. Both Dyson and Lauren declared themselves to Bo. She reciprocated in non commital ways. I didn't like the way Dyson put himself below Bo, but liked she brought him back to even standing, and I didn't like the lopsided logic of Lauren's reasoning for her actions this season. A few different lines of dialog would have fixed that right up.

I also don't think Tamsin was introduced to shake up the triangle. I think she was introduced to shake up the whole happy sunshine gang, but putting someone in Bo's world on a day to day basis that wasn't smitten with her or giving her slack for her devil may care attitude towards rules and boundries. And she did. But she got sucked into the cult too. Luckily she's retained a lot of her kick ass sass.

I was just thinking about the rumor of the casting requests for the 5th season and what if the show opens IN Valhalla and all the new charactes are people that Kenzi is surrounded by on the other side? Last season opened with Bo gone but we didn't get to see what was happening to her. They might do the opposite next season and have it open with Kenzi and we see everything as it happens. And what if she finds Ciara on the other side? (Not saying that Ciara gets to come back too. But she could be there for Kenzi. And I'd be AOK with that. Ciara did die in battle.) Who else could be there? I can't think right now. But if once Kenzi comes back everyone suddenly break out into a musical episode and it turns out Kenzi isn't happy being back then I'm calling shenanigans.
Maria Payne
48. Georgiana2494
@Kiersten & @nypinta - it would definitely give us something to sing about...
Susan White
49. whiskeywhite
Lost Girl, the Musical. I can see it now. But it would have to star Zoie Palmer because, damn, that woman can sing.
50. apollo1
Good episode I stopped hoping for greatness from this show a long time ago. I am going to take what i can get in that it answered a few more questions and bo now has to face the fact her best friend gave her life for her because she made stupid selfish choices to save a man from a train and then marry him lol. UGH writers honestly do you even care that your viewers make this show and we decide wether it stays airing or not. maybe just maybe you would want us to actually care about more than who bo is sleeping with this week, i mean crap even that doesn't make sense half the time. ok rant over.
C. H.
51. SmurfFae
Liked this episode:
Massimo's death was as pathetic as his live and Bo used her experience as a fae eagainst him.
I liked all the Bo/Kenzie/Dyson scenes and Dyson's vow. I liked Tamsin and hope she'll have a more central role next season. Glad DL remembered the hip. oath, otherwise she would have become too inconsistent.
Destroying the twig was a classic 'characters acting stupid because the plot demands it'-moment. (Too powerful twig makes good plots hard.) Simply lazy, bad writing.
(Why can't writers commit to good writing? It's your job! ;))
And furthermore: In season 2, when Hale set up the parley between Lachlan and Trick, Trick mentioned, that Hale has a male cousin who's also a Zamoran heir. You really should work on that show bible EA ... or someone else will do it and hit you on the head with it. Metaphorically.

I don't have any trouble with the triangle, if only DL would be written more consistent.
"I'm going to choose the way I live my life" can be applied well to a polyamorous relationship (Caprica-style).
I was actually hoping they would do something along the lines of "Design for Living" (1933), if you ever want to see a funny polyamorous movie, that's actually over 80 years old. (Miriam Hopkins has to decide between Gary Cooper and Edward E. Horton. Except she can't and she doesnt't ;))
If Hollywood could do polyamory 80 years ago in funny and respectful way, you can do it today! ;)
C. H.
52. SmurfFae
If anyone needs a recommendation for an excellent romantic urban fantasy series - for the LG hiatus - I can totally, with the best conscience ever recommend Teen Wolf.
It's definitely not a guilty pleasure anymore, since it's an awesome, high-quality show ;).
When I watched the pilot in 2011 I thought "... cheesy as to be expected from MTV ..." and didn't bother following the first season UNTIL I read a photo recap from Price Peterson on at the end of the first season. (If you watch watch TW, I super-recommend you read his recaps. Hi-la-rious!) he sums up the strengths of TW better than I could:

"When I tell people that I think Teen Wolf is one of cable's best shows (and by extension one of TV's best shows), they still, to this day, think I'm somehow joking or being sarcastic or trolling them or whatever. But I am not. I happen to watch a lot of TV and Teen Wolf just does things better than most if not all other shows. Humor, horror, pathos, and creative ambition... All are married to simply insane storytelling and enormously likable characters. It's frankly incredible how bad most other shows are in one or more of those areas, but Teen Wolf regularly nails them and in the exact right combinations. "

If you're discouraged by the Teen-stigmata: Don't be. I'm 35 and enjoying the show. The quality did increase constantly, and still does. In my opinion: the current season is the best. (There is a lot of romance in the first season but the romance-part decreases. Which is great and a move LG should copy!)
All the writing issues mentioned on this forum are non-existent on TW. The characters are compelling, consistent and intelligent.

I also love Orphan Black and Sleepy Hollow. But there are only like 10 episodes of each series. To little!
Other great shows: Arrow, Person of Interest, Agents of Shield.
I tolerate TVD (too repetitive) but have given up on Beauty and the Beast and Revolution.

Right now my two favorite shows are LG and TW (also some might argue that LG peaked some time ago and TW is getting better every episode). You being on this forum is proof that you're smart and sexy, so you earned yourself a reward! If you want to do yourself a favour, if you like super-high-quality drama and the most supreme compelling characters, if you like your heroes heroic and your romance romantic: You should watch the best show ever. You deserve it!

Don't postpone your happy time. Watch TEEN WOLF!
Marie Sullivan
53. minime2
@Kiersten I haven't seen Isbloom on any boards in a while. Granted I have been skipping most lately. I have been "re-kilting" all the Outlander books in prep for the new book and series on Showtime. However, knowing how Isbloom feels about Kenzi I have to imagine her head exploded after the finale.

Following Smurfae I am suggesting the US Being Human, this season is great and funny enough Tim Rozin (Mossimo) and Kyle Schmid (Rainer) show up in most episodes. I wish LG could get Being Human's writers who also write for Supernatural.
54. newgirl
By the way Kiersten said in ch12 discussion thread
Also, not for nothing, but Bo murdered a human tonight - a crazy, evil,consumed with power human who had it coming to him, but still. He was unarmed and defenseless and she didn't hesitate to run him through.
@Kiersten do you remember how Bo and Kenz met?? the first thing Bo did was kill in order to protect kenzi, ok back then she didn't know how to control herself, but she CHOOSE to go after the man and safe the ruffied girl, knowingly she would kill the man, so killing massimo in his utterly human state i don't think was too different, in fact it was as usual, Bo doesn't take too well (not well at all) when someone hurt kenz, remember Kenzi Scale, she even fought with lauren over kenzi for helping trick to have locked up, and massimo did a big time hurting kenzi
55. newgirl
On the other hand @SuzyM
If they play this next season with Bo blaming Dyson I am done with this show.
I REALLY don't expect Bo to be angry at Dyson, in my last last comment (#22) i said Bo should have rant Dyson about letting kenzi get killed, but all because she didn't knew about the prophecy and that kenz was the only way to close the gateway, and i mean you come and see her just walking and everyone watching without moving one finger against it she might be mad at the time, but no after she was explained the why, besides she knew what kenz was going to do, maybe not the "why" but she knew when she saw the proposal ring kenz slid into Bo's jacket, so i really hope writers don't try to do a "bo mad at dyson for kenzi's death", it has no point the choice was for kenz to make and she chose to save them, that bo must understand.
56. TheGardner
So cool episode.

Had it's good and bad points, like all finales, but overall I enjoyed it. And it was leaps and bounds better than season 3's crapfest "Those Who Wander". So Massimo was a pretty awesome villain, Reiner was a dud and Daddy sent Zombies to do his dirty work until he could find matching socks I guess.

I love Kenzi and Dyson together(absolutely not sexual, NO! Denzi = incest), but if you have time to stand around emoting in the middle of a battle, then maybe things aren't so dire. I think my heart broke more for Tamsin than the others, RS sold her grief in that moment, Kenzi was her 'moms'.

I liked Dyson pledging his faelty to Bo and her asking him to stand at her side. KHR's delivery left something to be desired, but he got his point across and it looks like he is accepting of his place. It also feels like Dyson has come full circle this season and I liked that he was the one encouraging Bo to save Lauren.

I won't hold my breath, but all signs seem to point to Bo finally making a decision and the fucking triangle is dead! Great she chose Lauren, done, whatever, who cares, just for the love of all that is holy no more back and forth. Commit to it or have Bo be single, end of story. I don't know how I feel about Dyson and Tamsin, but I'm open to it.

I think that they have set up some interesting story lines for season 5 so I will be back. I just can't believe that so much time was wasted on Rainer, no more of that bullshit please. I love Kenzi to death and I want her back, but at the same time I am torn. Her sacrifice would be negated and with a smaller main cast TPTB could maybe get back to focusing on the characters- No fuck that, GIVE ME BACK MY KENZI YOU BASTARDS! I do hope that Kenzi's death means no more 'Bo the Giant Douchecanoe'!

Ah well, here's hoping!
57. newgirl
One thing I worry most, Bo is lacking her HEART... it might tend to gives some ideas to the writers and we might end up with some sort of "inhuman" Bo, more deadly and more viciuos, Kenz was a great part of her balance, she always was pulling her back into "the right path", when Aife, Ryan, she even got in the middle of Bo feeding in season 1 when Bo had no control yet and Bo recognize her and spare her, what happen when someone looses that kind of heart?, Bo would have been dark Fae a long time ago if not for Kenz, so yeah I second TheGardner's claim with my WHERE THE HELL IS MY KENZI!!!
58. lonewolf
I have been reading all the comments since yesterday. Actually I had thought about dropping out of the discussion group and just lurk to see what everyone had to say. But I'll pass on a couple comments once in awhile. But first, We had all this big build-up of Bo's daddy, donnie darko, as she called him. But of course we don't get to see him. Just a bunch of what looked like ww1and ww2 soldiers with a sprinkle of American and French revolution soldiers for whatever reason only TITB (short for THE IDIOTS THAT BE) know. They probably had too much of a booze and butts buzz going to be imaginative enough to come up with anything else. If anything, they should have smoked a puffie or two. Shakespeare did and look what he came up with.

A lot of what everybody says here I pretty much agree with. I may come up with debates about possibilites of some sort. One thing I am pretty sure of is Kenzi not getting into Vahalla. But then I and someone else on here got wayyyy to involved in theories about who Rainer really was and so on. I am bummed especially tho because we did not get to see the ugly, beastley looking Rainer that looked like he was having a really bad hair day and needed dental work. But, ehh, that's to be expected from EA and her group. Lets give them something to look forward to then throw a major league disappoint their way.

@Kiersten, how long will this forum be up. I still have a few things to say, but I'm going to watch the episode one more time before I do.
And I will say Thank You first to Kiersten, this is the only blog or forum or whatever ;) one may wish to call it, that I have been on and it has been a lot of fun. That @jdime person can take a hike. If they had enough brain cells working well enough to find this place they should work well enough to find another. I never bothered, this one is great as far as I'm concerened. As for this ship business, I didn't really know what it meant for quite some time. I just took the word for what it was, a ship. But after time it came to me, just like other cryptic's like tptb, imo, imho and such. I even came up with one of my own.

There are others on here that I will acknowledge come later in the day but for now it's errands time, and @whiskeywhite, It's meatloaf night tonight and I went around with a flashlight checking the walls, ceilings and behind my bookcases. This blog is responsible for my letting so many cobwebs accumulate. They are scattered all over the place much like the way LG has been, these last two seasons especially.

I was only going come on here for a quick minute but nooooooooo, anything less than an hour does not satiate my daily addiction. @Kiersten, it is your fault my place got so cobwebby. You owe me a couple vacuum cleaner bags.

I will be back later in the day because I have some things I'd like to say about 413, amongst others. And I have to if for any other reason than to acknowledge those on here that gave me cause to find this place and stay with it. ;)
59. lonewolf
I meant Thank You @Kiersten, missed that.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
60. Kiersten
@lonewolf - thanks and I'm very glad you're getting so much out of the forum and the discussions and happily accept all blame for the cobwebs. This post will not be taken down, so you can come back whenever you want and share your thoughts once you've gathered them.

One last gentle reminder to everyone, however, not to target anyone personally. At H&H we debate the theory, not the person, and we want everyone here to feel safe to express their respectful opinions.

As for the vaccum cleaner bags, you're on your own there.
I don't share my Dyson...
61. newgirl
@lonewolf, totally agree with you,
One thing I am pretty sure of is Kenzi not getting into Vahalla.
she must be in Hel or whatever other kind of mythological realm they decide to put her, any world equaling Hell as we know, you know torments and stuff, which brings me into saying hope they bring her back fast enough or we are going to have a way more different kenzi, and though the character must evolve, i don't think they should be so drastic, or she might even come without memories of her time out, hope not, "been there, done that", and just in case the blog closes as lonewolf says, Kiersten me too wants to thanks for this blog, i love it, i'm not always looking into thread of discussion this just appear when i was looking for some comments on chapter 12 after watching 11, and since then well here i am.
62. newgirl
@Kiersten, good to know we can come back here anytime for this sad months coming ahead ;)
Megan Frampton
64. MFrampton
To reiterate what Kiersten said (and as a reminder for anyone who is about to jump into the discussion): Please keep the conversation on the show and the episode. No personal attacks, please, or we will have to delete posts and block users.
65. nypinta
I forget where but someone posted saying that they thought Tamsin was still exiled from Valhalla because Dyson found her in front of the gates, but I don't think that's true. She was saying to Kenzi that by taking Rainer to Valhalla like she was supposed to that she wouldn't be exhiled and I took that to mean that when she dies she won't be barred and end up in Hel, like she thought she would, which lead to Trick's deal with her. So when Kenzi died I do think Tamsin was able to take her to Valhalla. But something is wrong, which is why she was outside the gate looking a little beat up. Could be she was just emotionally drained because of having to take Kenzi... but then she was freaked about Bo getting the shoes and not being allowed to go into Valhalla. I think something is in there that she is afraid Bo will let loose. But I'll have to rewatch that scene because I can't recall exactly what she said.

I don't think Bo has chosen anyone and I do think the triangle is still in play, stopping to put on jewelry or no.

I still have issues with the timing of things. I get that they needed Bo away, or that they thought they needed to get Bo away so Kenzi could slo-mo walk to her death. But in doing so they had to take things from various characters and by doing that it feels off. I do get that Bo would want to save Lauren. That's not really it. That she would want to take the time to go and save her with the impending end of the world just an hour away, uh no. Not really. I've seen people say that Bo was told not to go because of some blah blah her daddy's powers would overwhelm her. But the only time she got overwhelmed was when she chi sucked the remenants. Yes the mark was bothering her, but Bo is stubborn and she wanted to confront her father and any warnings by others is not going to keep her from going. Especially since she planned on going anyhow... once she got Lauren. So the idea she was a danger is out. But going alone and sending Dyson, Tamsin, and Kenzi to hold the portal makes no sense really. And in a way, as I mentioned before, having Lauren using shadow thief skills with a throw away line about learning it from Kenzi cheapened all previous mention of it by Dyson and Kenzi. It was supposed to be her thing and her in to the fae world as more than a claimed human. I think Kenzi should have gone with Bo. Maybe she was thinking that if she had it she could survive what she was attempting, but tells Bo she wants it back to give to Hale's family. Or some such. In a way Kenzi is responsible for Massimo existing since she gave him the twig in the first place. They made a big deal about her shawdow thief training for half a season. She spent all last episode trying to kill him. Now all of a sudden she's just going to walk away? No. She should have gone. They had their confrontation. Kenzi could have gotten hurt, maybe been the fake out of her death since a lot of people called it. But then when she's OK, well... hurrah! We were wrong! Kenzi wasn't going to die! All three (because maybe having Evony show up too would be too much... or Evony shows up and she helps Massimo escape, because she is his mother after all, but he's sans twig so Bo can kill him next season) go to confront Bo's father and now, uh oh... maybe Lauren is on the chopping block. Kenzi has the twig! Bo is nigh invincible being the star of the show and all... the audience has to be thinking she's a goner now. Bo chose her! (Sorta. Well, not really. But she put on the necklace that everyone saw in the leaked promo.) Duh duh duuuuuuuh! There's a battle. It's looking grim. Bo is overwhelmed. Dyson's hurt. Lauren's hurt. Trick has been seperated from the rest and it looks like he's going to be overwhelmed at any moment. Kenzi crawls to Dyson's side, hands him the page from the book and while doing so slips him the twig, tells him to protect Lauren, (hush). Bo and Tamsin are fighting off the throngs of the walking evil dead and after taking one particularly brutal hit Bo's down... and that's when she sees Kenzi's ring is also on her necklace. (You think shadow thieving is just about slipping things in pockets? She got Lauren's underwear off! A ring on a chain is cake.) and Bo realizes what Kenzi is planning and she fights her way back up ... and she's gone. Boom! Remenants fizzle. It's over. And only Kenzi's body remains.

Bo got to save Lauren first but it made sense and it calls into question just who is going to die, etc.
66. Darthfaeder
@Uberfae per post #3 I agree 100% and the thing about protecting
" The Precious " was down right hilarious!!!LOLOLOLO!!!!!! Yeah
I am all for Tamsin's happiness but I just can't go there if they try and
put Tamsin and Dyson together. I for sure will be done watching the show. It just kills me that they went through all that trouble to have
Tamsin fall in love with Bo, only to say " Oh hey guys we the PTB are
thinking about putting Tamsin with Dyson now" What a F-ing joke
if they do that. Also I remember to outrage and anger over the end
of episode 11 when Tamsin jumped up on Dyson's lap and kissed
him. There were alot of people really mad about that, so if they are
really concerned about not pissing off the fans then they will steer
clear of putting Dyson and Tamsin. What good does it do them to try
and keep doccubus only to piss off alot of other people, and I am just talking about the Valkubus shippers. I can't speak for people like Kiersten who are avid Dybo shippers. I still think my idea of not
having Bo with anyone is the better way to go. I also think it's the
safer way. It worked during most of season 1 before Bo decided to
be with Dyson. Bo was hooking up with whomever she wanted and
didn't have any of the other characters telling her what to do.
67. nypinta
Oh, and forget Kenzi explaining it all to Dyson about Bo going to get her in Valhalla, because we should know that Bo would. Instead I would have Bo at Kenzi's headstone and with the flowers, she brings Kenzi something she knows she'd appreciate: a pair of shoes. And she tells Kenzi that when she thought Rainer was at some battlefield paying his respects, he was actually retrieving the other shoe for Bo because he knew he was going to die, he knew Kenzi was, and he knew Bo was going to go get her. So he left them for Bo with a note, "My love. Follow your heart." Because he was a good guy. (Until he comes back all horned up and ugly next season.)
68. nypinta
Last thing. Kenzi's stone should have said, "Sister. Friend. Warrior. Heart." Just sayin'.
69. newgirl
Does anyone knows who is Massimo refering to, when he said "I know that the Keeper was right to warn you the shit that's coming your way" who does he mean?, the man holding her when she was a baby, who i always thought was her father, who said "You have so much ahead of you" or is he talking about Levi's "I will be seeing you again, soon enough. Someone you love very much will soon be dead" or about the speaker of the Una Mens who said "If you do this, if you follow him...(Rainer) you will suffer a fate beyond your worst nightmares. A fate even worse than your own whore of a mother's! You will be dragged beneath irkalla, damned like the spawn of evil that you are!!!"
And jumping again to lonewolf point... i think kenz is in Irkalla, chatting with Levi a little bit, next season hope they talk about levi wanting that mark that was supouse to hers, but back in bussiness who is the Keeper Massimo mentioned???
70. nypinta
The Keeper was the guy in Bo's Dawning that tried to warn her taking Dyson with her would bring bad things.
71. newgirl
You see and that's the keeper i forgot (the others weren't all adress at like "the keeper" but they kind of filled the role, the keeper of baby bo, the keeper of irkalla, the una mens law keeper, lol, i forgot the only one actually called THE keeper), it make sense, thankss, next season yet so far away T.T
72. nypinta
But of course that begs the question of how did Massimo know what Bo saw in her Dawning?
Susan White
73. whiskeywhite
@SmurfFae, thanks for the tip about "Design for Living". Interesting. Also Teen Wolf. You really sold that one. I have to look now.

Laugh out loud award of the day goes to @TheGardner: Daddy sent Zombies to do his dirty work until he could find matching socks I guess. I was looking forward to you chiming in. Runner up award goes to Kiersten: I don't share my Dyson... . Yup. Never vacuum without a Dyson. Maybe why that's why my house looks looks like Dust Bunny Ranch.

@Darthfaeder, I can see why the Valkubus folks wouldn't want to see Tamsin with Dyson. But I thought you (or someone) said previously that the Doccubus folks were up in arms over Tamsin's lap dance with Dyson. Why would they care, or was I misunderstanding? Is Valkubus a big group? Is there overlap wit Doccubus? If the latter than I guess it's 'Bo with anybody as long as she's a woman'. Which could be a thing for sure.
74. RagingBison
Can someone please explain to me why Kenzi would walk straight into a portal of Hell, intending toward Valhalla? She's heading in the wrong direction! I get incredibly upset when the plot writing has these types of loopholes. KS's acting balanced the show well; I hope this means for the story that Kenzi is reborn with superhuman powers (ghost, necromancer) through the assistance of Bo, Tamsin, Trick's reincarnation magic. It's suggested Kenzi and Bo have some sort of sisterhood. With this show's use of "Oops, we forgot our memories" moments to cover up huge plotholes in the script and interrupt the natural progression of the storyline, I hope S5 provides answers or I won't be back. Perhaps the gang will enter the nether planes to retrieve Kenzi and Hale, approach Bo's father, and encounter Rainer.

In other thoughts, for Bo, I am Team All. Also, why does Trick seem to hold back when his granddaughter asks him questions? I think he may be behind much of the events (consider his medieval experience with Rainer). So many questions, so few answers...
75. newgirl
@nypinta Well maybe all fae Dawnings are recorded in the fae Archives, where he used to dwell in order to know everything about the Fae, massimo always knew to many things, sometimes he seemed like a walking "crazy" enciclopedia, about history and facts of the fae, what i don't get is why dyson imprision him only with the phrase "you're friends will die and you will watch" or something like that, i don't see any relevance in that predictmen, but massimo always knew more than he should about fae for a human, otherwise how could he be posing as a druid.
76. nypinta
As much as I wish the writers would stop playing with the various fandom ships by putting in moments for each combination they can think of as a tease, I also wish people would stop saying they aren't going to watch the show anymore just because their preferred ship isn't the official one screen. I get having a prefrence, and I understand getting fed up with a show for bad writing or wasting characters, but too many times I see posts all saying the same thing (especially on tumblr), "If so and so don't get together I'm not watching" like threatening a boycott will sway TPTB to write things their way...? The writers are trying to cater to too many ships as it is already and it's making a mess. I'd rather that they ignored all ships and teams and just wrote a good story. Filled with consistent characters and plots that make sense. If they do that then the relationship Bo should be in will feel natural enough that people can't be arguing over it as much. (But we'll still argue. Because people lurve that.)
77. newgirl
@RagingBison, about kenz that was something i thought they would do, i mean she walks into Hel gateway, is only fair she went straight to Hel, but no, the writers choose to let her body/soul out to be retrieven to suposedly Valhalla, though i don't think she made it there.
78. nypinta
@RagingBison Kenzi wasn't walking into the portal because she thought she could physically get to Valhalla from there. She was walking into it knowing it would kill her and that Tamsin would then take her soul to Valhalla.
79. RagingBison
@nypinta, newgirl: I agree, the focus on relationships needs to end. And Kenzi also remarked she expects Bo to do what it takes to help her get to Valhalla. That's why I'm hoping S5 goes otherwordly. Chance to see some cherished characters such as Hale, Kenzi, Rainer, (Ciara, Bo's papa?!) all in one.

Things I dislike: Bo wasting time discoursing love relationships then turning around to face and announce the Apocalypse; Rainer, the foresighted battlefield warrior, is easily killed by Massimo, an augmented human; So much buildup around Bo's father, the wanderer, una mens, general Doom and Gloom, without any conclusion. The portal is closed. However, Kenzi remarks that she expects Bo to come help her make it to Valhalla. Bo's been to the underworld before with the crows, maybe she will have to return.

Things I like: the interesting interweaving backstories and abilites of the characters any sign of character development really; the small glimpses of clarification of the memory losses; the sexy attitude of most of the actors: Tamsin>Dyson>Morrigan/Vex/Bo>Kenzi/Rainer/Lauren.
80. nypinta
@RagingBison I heard Kenzi as saying Bo would get her from Valhalla, not get to, and that she was hoping to see Hale again while waiting for Bo to find her and bring her back. But that made me realize that at one time Rainer had died, he was dead. Tamsin didn't bring his soul to Valhalla, but he was still dead. Trick just wanted him gone from history; I don't think he meant for him to physically be somewhere, just his soul, wandering and unable to get into Valhalla. But Bo's father has the power to bring people back from the dead. I still think that train was Bo's father's doing and he brought Rainer back to life, but because of Trick's curse, Rainer couldn't remember who he was or why he was cursed. That was why he was able to walk off the train as a person, not a ghost.

Also, I still think that Rainer allowed Massimo to kill him at the Dal because he foresaw that it would unbalance Massimo farther and that Bo would defeat him, but he knew that one of them had to die. He chose himself.
81. newgirl
@RagingBison actually Kenz is expecting Bo to retrieve her from Valhalla, Kenz assumes Tamsin will take her there after she sacrifices because that's what valkyries do, they take fallen in battle heroes to Valhalla and Kenzi was a heroine by sacrificing herself to put and end to the battle (and the armagedon as Kenz call it when she talked to Tamsin before), so Bo is bringing her from whatever she got herself into, Valhalla or not, season5 better give Kenz back!!!
82. newgirl
@nypinta is too good for Rainer the way you put it, and more than Rainer is too good for the writers to have such a short and unnecesary existence and mythology all around the character, it scream "all too much work" to just vanish him again with a plain death, i think he is something bigger, yet to find in season 5, i'm still thinking he might be the cause Tamsin doesn't want Bo finding the other shoe, that and something made by Bo father creating som sort of curse if you rescue Kenz your father will be unleashed, something like it, but somehow involving evil Rainer.
83. RagingBison
I know what Kenzi expects, but it's fairly clear she didn't get there. Tamsin's worried confession to Dyson at the gate, Kenzi's relative weakness and rashness in entering Hell portal, and Rainer/Wanderer/Una Mens's interference in the afterlife makes me think that way.

Anyone here seen Insidious 2? I appreciate how that movie treated the netherworld regions. If LG could find a way to portray the supernatural plane similarly (cost-effectively, non-hokey) it would be a huge success and could easily tie up many of the loose ends in the story.
84. nypinta
I don't think it's so clear she didn't get there. Tamsin is upset but she doesn't want Bo to get the Helskor shoes. Why would she not want Bo to get them if Tamsin thought Kenzi was stuck in Hel and not in Valhalla? Tamsin's freak out was about something else, I think. Something she saw when bringing Kenzi to the Hall of Heroes. But like I said above I have to rewatch that scene with Tamsin to get what exactly she said.
85. newgirl
Yes but, Tamsin started with "Kenzi..., she is gone", not in the way gone into valhalla but gone... for good, at least it seemed to me, buuuut now i search if the Helskor existed in mythology and yes they are the shoes put on the dead so they could go to Valhalla, so Kenz must have get to valhalla, now i checked the comments on ch7 discussion and drusilla_doll mention this definition too. But if tamsin saw Kenz in Hel and doesn't want Bo to go after her might be for something like i said before, maybe it is worse from the looks of it to free kenz than to let her there, and now having said that it sounded so bad for tamsin to think like that and more if it is kenz we are talking about, so scratch that. Though maybe kenz is in Irkalla with Levi, and bo knows how to get ther, but then why would bo need the second shoe if she only have to jump to the hole, waaaay too confusing, and giving me every time a new idea and a new branch of story to develop, so i will let her in Valhalla but in a wasted valhalla, not the party kind one but some gruesome one, i only want them too hurry and don't spend almost half of the next season bringing Kenz back, i hope we have her by the 3rd or 4th ep
86. RagingBison
Now that would be cool--the most powerful of the gang journey to a conflicted Valhalla to rescue Kenzi and deal with Bo's Fate.
87. Darthfaeder
@Whiskeywhite per post #73 No it wasn't me who said that doccubus fans where up in arms over Tamsin crawling up on Dyson's lap. I said
that alot of Valkubus fans on twitter and tumblr were up in arms. I am
sure the doccubus fans love the thought of Tamsin and Dyson being
together. It will eliminate 2 of Lauren's rivals for Bo affections.
Valkubus has become a bigger group but not as big as doccubus. I am
not sure about how big the Dybo fandom is? They are very quite and
don't really say much in social media, so its hard to discern their size.
As far as doccubus overlapping with Valkubus there are alot of people who ship both Valkbus and Doccubus. I personally am okay with Tamsin being with anyone except for Dyson or any male. I think
that alot of the Valkubus shippers are angry about the Ptb going to
so much trouble to have Tamsin fall in love with Bo over 2 seasons,
then all of the sudden say " hey fans we may decide to put Tamsin with
Dyson now." They should have put Tamsin and Dyson together in the beginning of season 3. It is totally ridiculous to do what they did to
Tamsin, but hey look at the crapfest that is season 4 and that should
tell you that they may not know what the hell they are doing anymore.
88. nypinta
I don't think Tamsin is completely herself when she Valkyries out, so when she said, "Kenzi, she's gone" she was reacting as a person who realizes fully now that her friend is dead and she is sad about that. I don't think it was meant that Kenzi didn't go where she was supposed to.

Ha. What if Rainer i s"Trojan horse" to bring Bo's father into Valhalla? Hahaha. A horse hiding in a person. Hahaha. Nice twist.
89. lonewolf
@Kiersten and @MFrampton, I feel that an apology is due, I make no excuse because, I feel there as a rule, are no excuses, only bad judgement. Much like luck. So I admit my mistakes and a will give you the promise that it will not happen again. I enjoy this discussion group too much to get silly and insulting to screw it up.

I just read pretty much all of 411's posts and I think there are two points that most everybody will agree on. One...Rainer was one of the baddies, well we all got that wrong. And two...The doccubus ship will continue. In S5 I wonder if Laurens little trick with Evony will get the fae to come down on her hard. She has gotten away with too much for her to not suffer any consquences for her actions.

With that being said, I enjoyed seeing Evony as a vulnerable human, with a buzz on. And again, the end of the fae world is just around the corner and she wants to get her sex on. With Trick, of all people.

Looking with retrospect, it does make sense that Bo's father had the ability to affect or manipulate happenings on this physical plane. She did come out with the Almost powerful as all fae in 2x8 Death Didn't Become Him, where she sucked all the chi out of the lich and entourage. At which point she went into that possesed mode. Then again after the battle with the Garuda and after the ceremony. I still think that the person she saw standing by the cradle was her father. It's just that he had taken the form of a person. But like a lot of what has been told or given us, it's open to interpretation. As for Rainers being alive on the train, again it could be Bo's dad but while I can'texplain it, I don't think that was the case. He did most likely manipulate both Rainer and Bo. But why did he say (Rainer) *Be still my beating heart another brunette* when Bo arrived on the train. Why did he say that.

As for Kenzi being the warrior, her surviving on the streets the way she did made her a warrior already in my eyes. I felt that way from the beginning. She may well be the one that Bo will go back to Irkalla for. The Leviathan did say she would be back because someone she loved dearly would die. And who is the one Bo loves most dearly. And Tamsin did look distressed when Dyson found her. So maybe there was a battle between would claim her soul. Those at Vahalla and in Irkalla. That's as far as my speculation will go as far as that's concerned.

It is dinner time, but I'll be back later on. First, I must acknowledge @nypinta, @whiskeywhite, @UberFaenatic and of course @Kiersten for posting the excellent comments that they do. Everybody on here does, elsewise I wouldn't be on here.

P.S. I think Olivia Wilde would be a good character to portray Angel. She could be Dyson's new love.
90. TheGardner
OK I'm going to need some clarification as to why people don't think the triangle is over, I thought that was pretty clear. The necklace was a symbol, but come on Dyson accepted his place in Bo's life as his general and encouraged her to "go get the girl".
Carmen Pinzon
91. bungluna
I have come to the conclussion that Lost Girl and Anita Blake are inspired by the same Muse.

Both start out strong and kindled the imagination of their fans.
Both degenerate into a sex-fests with little discernible rhyme or reason. Never mind cohesive plotting.
Both drop promising characters that turn out to be duds.
Both have heroines that are like catnip to all around them, whatever their gender or genus. Did someone call for a Bo(bie) Sue?
Both retcon unlikely characters to make them fit into the "perfect soulmate" category.

I fear somewhere out there some poor soul has been struck by lightning for mentioning the writers of LG and Shakespeare in the same sentence. Talk about sacriledge. (joke)

No amount of speculation on our part will fix this mess, imo. Nothing remains of the show from the first season, not even the characters. Everybody has been so transformed as to be unrecongnizable.

Kenzie was the only good thing remaining in the show and I have no confidence in this bunch bringing her back undamaged.

I don't have a ship in this show any more. I liked the relationship that was developed between Bo and Dyson in the first season. Look, an adult love story settled right away with non of the tedious 'will they, won't they' crap! How refreshing. I was prepared for the loss of love and the second season (thanks a buch, Whedon.) I liked Ryan. The craming of Doccubus down my throat during pornoseason 3 left me feeling like a goose nursing a ginormous foi gras. This season just plain sucked, imo.

I'd wish for less ship and more action/adventure but that's not going to happen. That would take more thought and effort than the LG people seem to be willing to spend on ploting this show, so that's that, folks.
92. drusilla_doll
@TG: I personally don't think the triangle continues on. Bo showed her priorities and picked Lauren in the finale, even though they haven't resolved anything which made their relationship suck in the first place and still can't communicate worth a damn.

The show should stick with it and not tease us any more with B/D or B/T fan service in S5 if they aren't going to honor/respect those ships properly.

93. dash
Reading all of these comments, I just realized why I hate the character Lauren so much. She's a total "Mary Sue". She's written to be perfect at everything, smart, knows all the answers, clever, witty, she's hot but doesn't realize it because she's a geek, and she's also brave and has moments of strength, plus she can cook (discoverd because of some comment made by Bo in a past episode about her being a 'domestic goddess'??) but all of that goes right out the window when they need her to be the damsel in distress that Bo saves.

I've been reading spoilers on season 4 debating on whether I wanted to come back and watch the show, because I was sincerely hoping Lauren was finally being showed the door with the intro of Tamsin, but now knowing that's far from the case, I'm done with it. They are trying too hard to make her into this likeable character and shove her down our throats, that it just makes her a huge turn off. I could barely sit through season 3, there was too much focus on Lauren and Bo being a couple that everything got shoved to the wayside, to the point that when Kenzi and Hale (who I've shipped from ep. 1) finally had a definitive relationship moment, it felt hollow. Now they're just marketing off the fact they're one of the first genre shows to feature a female lead in a relationship with another female character, that it's like they're not even bothering to write a good show anymore.

Not to mention, Bo and Lauren have nothing in common beyond their connections to the fae world. The show creators are disregarding the lack of chemistry between the characters, riding off the novelty of that "hot girl on girl" vibe they had that is very quickly wearing off now, and what's there to replace it, the very obvious lack of rationale behind this relationship. The only take away from what's been shown of them together is they supposedly have "really great sex" - but that's because women are generally better in bed is why, and that the characters are whores for melodrama.

For crying out loud, there's a whole episode about how incompatible they are! The one where Tamsin and Bo are off looking for a crying fae whose tears are magic, while Trick and his date are toying with a machine that will decide Bo's fate or whatever. It was one of the few episodes I liked that season. Bo and Lauren fought the whole time because Lauren is just "so perfect" and Bo is just a "dumb thug". Of course, reality, Lauren is just an example of writers trying too hard to make a character likeable to the point her only flaw is she's too perfect, whereas Bo is just so perfectly flawed that it's hard not to like her.

Wow, I hate Lauren. I've never wanted a character to die off so badly.
Suzanne Metaxas
94. SuzyM
I think that Bo's daddy is still going to turn out to be Odin. I think he disguised himself when he hired Tamsin or sent and intermediary since he know that Tamsin would recognize him. I think when Tamsin brought Kenzi to Valhalla she realized that Bo's Dad was Odin and that is why she doesn't want Bo to go there. I think we all made a mistake thinking that the Pyrippus was Bo's dad. I think it is Bo's Dad's pet :) Just some thoughts I had.
95. RagingBison
@dash, bungluna: I sympathize with what you say about Lauren and relationships. I don't wish for her to die, but she's written so poorly. She has the potential to be this geeky sexy genius human scientist, yet as now she's defined as simply Bo's love interest. What a letdown. I was seriously pushing this season for Lauren to get closer to Kenzie and Crystal, especially the latter with whom I feel she has actual chemistry. Too bad Crystal is just dropped off the plot after the imprisonment sequence! Doccubus seems forced to me, as well. Too much damsel in distress, sort of thing. Lauren/Bo doesn't seem half as natural as Dyson/Bo. Besides, a succubus cannot remain monogamous, at least not if she wants to be powerful. That much has been established in this show. Sometimes she needs an extra boost from Lauren, Dyson, and others to "juice up."
96. nypinta
@TheGardner Because until Bo actually says the words it's up in the air for the writers to play with. There could be a thousand signs and reasons to believe that she chose her, but when has what happened on screen mattered if they decide to go a completely different way?
And you opined that Dyson has accepted his place in Bo's life as a general, I'm guessing based on his oath he swore to her. I could suppose then that Lauren's line to Bo saying, "I'm yours" is Lauren accepting Bo's offer to be her claimed human, as Bo suggested at the beginning of the season.
The necklace actually irks me as a symbol because Lauren never gave it to Bo. She might have inteded to at one time, but she didn't. Because she broke up with Bo. When she did so it wasn't during some grand plan of hers to take down the Dark. She was tired and needed to get away from all things fae, including Bo and she made that choice and so much has happened in the mean time so for Bo to take that necklace and assume she has a right to it still is pretty presumptous of her.
I also don't think Bo going to save Lauren was indicative of any choice. Bo saves her friends. That's what she does. She went after Dsyon when he got nabbed by Taft's goons at the end of S3, but that wasn't her "choosing" him, even though she left Lauren there while she made sure that Tamsin went and got Dyson out of the compound. Plus Bo had a promise to keep to Kenzi, and that was to kill Massimo. She was just being efficent. (At a really really lousy time.)
97. lonewolf
While the show is based on a succubus that hadn't really known who she was from the start, Kenzi has always been my favorite. A streetwise little waif, a lost girl in her own right. She had no special fae abilities to help her survive, just her will and wits. Kenzi was a warrior whose destiny was to meet Bo. If they had not met, there would have been no detective agency, and they would not have had someone who started her down the path to finding her real parents.

Now she is gone, to Valhala, or to Irkalla? Levi did tell Bo she would see her again. But she died a warrior, she should be in Valhalla. But wherever she is, when, not if, Bo brings her back will she have any abilities of her own. If she does, it should have something to do with those eyes of hers.

So S4 is over, I have a question, if a whole season is "in the can" were they changing certain scenes as the season went on. That's what it seemed like.

This is it for now. @bungluna, I'll stay indoors during thunder storms for awhile. ;)
98. Lurker
Interesting discussion. NYPinta just want to clarify one point about the I'm your's line from Lauren. EA let loose that in a recent interview that dialogue was edited from 3x01. This is how the ending scene was supposed to go.

Bo: It's time. Us.
Lauren: But you're Fae and I'm human
Bo: I don't care what you are. I want you to be mine.

It gives a lot more clarity to the 4x13 scene.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
99. Kiersten
@lonewolf - the season finished filming in late October and debuted in Canada in mid-Novemeber. I think the first half of episodes were locked in by the time it started airing while the rest were in post-production. So yes, changes were probably being made in editing etc but only they really know whether they were influenced by the responses from the first half of the season as they finished cutting the episodes.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
100. Kiersten
As for the "I'm leaving the show b/c my 'ship didn't win" aspect, I agree that ultimately that's a bit of a silly reason - *if* that's the only reason. But the core objections of what I've been hearing/reading are the plot inconsistencies, the character retcon, the complete dismissal of the need for a series bible, the unshown important scenes, the confusion, the Mary Sue-ization of Doctor Lauren, Bo's character assassination over the course of S4, Kenzi and Hale's deaths, the male bashing, the slut shaming of almost all heterosexual relationships, the systematic elimination of race diversity from the main and extended cast, the inorganic character "journeys", the descent into almost a complete lack of logic even to just the order of the scenes within the episode, the overall transformation of the original Urban Fantasy show to a campy, "sexy", supernatural cluster are all having greater impact on people's desire to jump ship than just who Bo may have "chosen".

Ultiimately, the show and its producers have completely lost the trust of its core fanbase. They have lied and/or not followed through on too much by trying to please too many fan factions rather than staying true to the show's original premise, themes, and characters. They go for the shock factor before they think of being true to the story. I've hung in with the show much longer than I would've otherwise because of the recaps and this community and out of loyalty toward and affection for the cast, but I have nearly zero interest in the show it has become beyond that and if, in fact, the doccubus relationship, that the show has gone to some pains to show as dysfunctional and unsatisfying for both vastly mismatched women when not in bed (and even then for Bo), is to be the main romantic relationship again that would simply be the final nail, not the motivating factor, as I have zero interest in enduring another season where that toxic relationship is shoved down my throat on top of everything else.

And that's what it means to be a fan, to be able to choose not to stay with a show you don't enjoy anymore, of which you're no longer a "fan". That's the risk a show takes when it veres off the reservation as grossly as Lost Girl has over the last two season. Dick with your fan base enough times and they will go elsewhere and I think killing off Kenzi and reconstituting doccubus (if in fact that's what happens) will be the last straw for a lot of fans who are tired of being jerked around especially when there are shows like Orphan Black out there whose tight storytelling, deeply rooted plots, viciously detailed and compelling and believable character journeys, (no matter how "out there" they may be), and overall viewing experience are a vast improvement over the hot mess that Lost Girl has become.

At this point, Firestone should back a Brinks truck full of cash to Lovretta's door and beg her to come back for one last 22-episode season 5 so that Lost Girl can go out the way it came in - as a compelling, funny, edgy, complex, sexy, mature, entertaining, supernatural, beloved Urban Fantasy.
Nadine Robb
101. cmm
For me its' not even that they aren't showing my ship. I originaly shipped Bo and Dyson season one and I did hope they got together end of season 2 but when I realized mid season that that was not gonna happen and they began to rewrite character histories I dropped it. I decided to just watch for Kenzi and Bo. Then came that horrible season 2 finale when Bo chose Lauren even after all she put her through. I still chose to stick with the show even then. Then came along Tasmin and honestly even though I like heterosexual relationships, I could see shipping those two. There was far more chemistry between those two than there has ever been with doccubus. So if they had to go with a lesbian relationship I woudn't of minded that one. But after this season, honestly I could care less as to what season 5 brings. I'm even not that interested in seeing how Kenzi comes back.
Suzanne Metaxas
102. SuzyM
I agree with everything Kiersten said! This show has broken my heart.
103. lonewolf
@Kiersten, thanks for the lowdown on production, post production activities. I guess you can call it that. But it doesn't matter what is done, Lost Girl has lost all of it's credibility. It will never be the same show that had a fan base grow so quickly. I'll wait and see what happens for the start of S5, the first 2-3 episodes will determine whether I watch anymore.

OB is an terrific show so far. I will admit tho that I was caught a little off guard at the start, gender preference wise I mean. But it's not something that's going to keep me from watching it. The girl playing all these different rolls does an excellent job at it. But it is not a show you will see here in the states. They're all a little to up-tight down here. It's nice to be able to get these shows online. Thanks for turning me on to OB.
sonjia johnson
104. redsonjia
My sister and I were talking about this ending.
I loved the fact that Dyson and Lauren weren't fighting over Bo. I finally had some peace of mind with that love triangle. I believe that this whole thing is suppose to happen. Lauren going to remove the seed from the druid. Bo father wanted Kenzie to close that portal. He wasn't meant to leave that way. He wanted bo to lose her best solid bond. BO has so many emotions for the other character but Kenzie was her constant. Bo is going to get the shoes free Kenzie, release her father though her so called destiny love Rainer. Thus filling the prophery.
Possible twist that seed.. maybe kenzie gets it? Lauren does some mad science with it? I love tam Tams reaction to kenzie death.
106. DahliaRoseAmber
Personally, I think that S4 finale is the best episode LG has had thus far and has solidified LG as my favorite show of all time. Kenzi's death was heroic and moving, and the subtle touches of feminism throughout the episode (the morrigan's bit about being "a total bitch" and men just cant handle a woman in charge) reminded me of why I love this show so much and shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I really have enjoyed all the twist and turns in the plot this season and I will continue to watch a show that displays feminism, polyamorous/lesbian relationships, complex characters/personalities, and most importantly a world that is not black and white.
107. CJaneJ
I love LG, but I cannot stand Lauren. Since so many on this thread are saying the same thing it confuses me why doccubus is pushed so hard. I agree with most of what was said about them, Lauren and Bo just fall flat as a couple, and Lauren is such a poorly written character she comes off as a mad scientist-lesbian caricature constantly. Bo and Tamsin make a more compelling couple, Bo and Dyson practically have fireworks with every look, hell even Bo and Rainer had more chemistry in the few scenes they had together. Does the showrunner just not know how the viewers feel and are constantly in a doccubus bubble or are they just soaking up accolades for having a primary character be a lesbian and fear those going away if they change the formula? I feel like it is the latter, unfortunately, but maybe I am too cynical.

Okay, off of the romance, which is just annoying by this point. I loved the ending with Kenzi, I thought it was dramatic and just like a fae-tale battle. There were moments with Kenzi this season that really pushed her character forward and I enjoyed every minute of it. Though the death of Hale just about ripped my heart out and easily had me in tears. Seriously Ksenia Solo wins the best actress award for this season hands down, she owned almost every scene and made Anna Silk seem flat in comparison. Go K. Solo, Go!
The death of Rainer seemed imminent, yet was still unfortunate given the character’s possibilities. It would have been nice to have a little more of his character before he was killed off, then it would have resonated better with Bo’s emotions.
Lauren was only tolerable when she was with Eveny this season, making her just awful this entire episode.
Dyson was pretty awesome this whole season, not a lot of character development but not bad, and he seems to only make bad decisions in Lauren’s presence (not telling Bo about the box, getting angry with Bo about Rainer, etc) So he really shined in this episode, both in his fealty to Bo and in grimly letting Kenzi go.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
108. Kiersten
Hi @CJaneJ and @DahliaRoseAmber and @redsonjia and all the other new posters who have weighed in these last few days! Welcome and thanks for adding to our conversation.

I'm thrilled to see so many differing perspectives come out of lurkdom to finally post or to find us here at H&H for the first time. Thanks for being involved!
109. Skyfyre
Doccubus fan for life, Kiersten, but even I couldn't stomach the absolute baloney they shoved into Lauren's plot and the annaliation of Bo as a decent living being.

Dyson remains constant at least, Kenzi's death was awful, but also completely avoidable if they wanted it to be. Too often everything is sacrificed for a shoehorned plot. I like rebooted Tamsin. I LIKE parts of the new fiery Lauren, but unethical experimentation Lauren who then suddenly is a H. Oath follower is BS. I'm a Lauren stan, I get most of her previous choices, but right now I cannot fathom her. Almost bad as Bo. Wrecked. Ruined. Occassionally highly selfish Bo.

I haven't called myself a fan for 1/2 a season, but I was holding out for the last two episodes to kick it into high gear or make sense of the seasonal plot, give everyone a nice shiny moment. It didn't. Both lovers were calling Bo on her crap the other episode, and now it's all sunshine and roses because Rainer is dead. Utter nonsense.

Meh. You know its a problem with opposing sides of the shipping lanes completely agree about the travesty of the season, EVEN the specifics. Have a good hiatus/other show watching season. GoT is on soon. ;-)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
110. Kiersten
Hey @Skyfyre and welcome! I too enjoyed fiery DL in early S4, which is why the "I did it all for you" changeover felt like such a lousy disservice to her. You're not the 1st doccubus lover I've heard say the same things and yeah, when both sides agree on how bad its gotten somebody should get a clue.

Ah GoT. Cant wait for that one!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
111. Kiersten
Just realized I randomly got the #100 spot above. Hee. Gold star for Kiersten!

Yes, I can give myself a gold star. Shuddup.
112. TheUberFan
There's a lot to catch up on.

I've been in mourning for what used to be my favorite show to the point where I seriously go back and forth as to why bother. Why should I hope that season 5 will be better, or that we won't see a continuation of the horrible characterizations, plot devices, plot craters and such.

You all know I support the idea of Bo/Tamsin. And I still do but I cannot fathom why they barely spent a few sentences talking together the entire season, apart from episode 8. And there was no continuation/followup on episode 8. But who needs continuity?

I'm really bummed that Tamsin was pretty much a potted plant this season and I have to say that my gut instinct is that it has more to do with a certain sector of fans who undertook a major bullying campaign against Rachel Skarsten and the show than it does with maybe where they were originally going to go. If that's the case, then why should I bother with a show that caters to bullies?

EA can say whatever she wants...she can troll and tease...but they made a point of Bo carrying around that stupid necklace with her in that box so she could put it on to rescue Lauren. Obviously Lauren stashing away that necklace and Bo wearing it totally fixes why they were completely incompatible last year.

I'm frustrated to the point of tears about Lauren. She has turned into a Mary Sue caricature. All characters seem to exist to serve her presence. Dyson couldn't say he loved Bo without adding the caveat that Lauren loves her too and that Bo loves Lauren. Kenzi received special training from Dyson (off screen of course) and somehow Lauren had the time to absorb Kenzi's shadow thief skills in the midst of working in the dark archive and rigging up magical topical de-faeing solution for her girly parts.

I mean come on. Kenzi couldn't even have her own thing without Lauren horning in. And it occurred to me that this was the only actual application we saw of the shadow thief this year beyond the panty swipe.

That they can't see that they've overstocked Lauren's skillset to a ludacris (did that on purpose) degree is just insane. That they continue to foist doccubus as a viable coupling when we saw about a hundred reasons why it was faetally flawed is equally as nuts. But you know, it's their show. If they want to tank it, that's their prerogative.

So I'm to the point where I deeply resent Lauren's presence, something I never thought would happen. I don't respond well to hard sells and good grief are they selling the hell out of the ecoterrorist/pipebomb making, doctor, chemist, shadow thief, lock picker, etc. And that she never ever gets called on her's galling.

I'm not nearly as upset over Kenzi because I have no doubt the focus of S5 would be to get her back.

But why should I think the other issues would be fixed? That Tamsin will do more than rest for two episodes at a time, delicate flower that she is? Why should I think that they're not going to provide empty fanservice this group or that group but in the end, pander to one group and one group only?

Why should I hope that they won't have ridiculous inconsistencies that they simply don't even bother with addressing?

And what really upset me was that I figured Bo was acting a certain way toward Dyson, Tamsin, Lauren and Kenzi because she was under a spell. I thought they turned her into a jerk because it wasn't her fault. Turned out she was just being a jerk. So that sucks.

I may tune in or I may not. I don't see why I bother trying to dissect relationships and events if they're simply going to change the rules midstream, where people behave one way in one episode then a completely different way in the next, or when the facts don't really matter?

For me personally, I might get excited again if, say Rachel Skarsten became a regular. That would at least be a sign to me that they might give her more than a couple moments every now and then.
113. Bore-mudaTriangle
@UberFaenatic As a Tamsin/Bo fan also, I agree with what you said. Really, they never follow up on any of the Tamsin/Bo kisses. Bo told Kenzi about their Brazenwood kiss (but they never finished that convo and talked about it) and Tamsin told Lauren. But they never talk to each other about it.. ever. I think someone on here before said they don't think they'll put Bo in another relationship with a female because of Doccubus. Which it seems true. Both Bo and Lauren can have kisses/sex with other females but if it envolves emotions, they'd freak out over it.

I don't understand why they are still going the Doccubus route. Honestly, I wouldn't care if she chose Lauren if it weren't for their incompatibility and how Lauren has become so perfect. I understand Bo loves Lauren, but there's such a thing as loving someone but not being able to be together for the thousands of reasons that have been displayed. Bo can't be with Lauren and only Lauren, and before you could tell it bothered her a lot (who wouldn't be?). They lack some respect for each other, Bo told her when she was drunk in Brazenwood that she's saving the world and all Lauren does is look at petri (sp?) dishes, and Lauren once told Bo "at least I finished high school." or something of the sort. Even in the prison episode when Lauren told Bo she wants kids, Bo was like uhhh you want kids? Not that that is any reason to break up, it just shows they want different things. Lauren said she wasn't happy and I still don't understand what is going to change to make her be happy in this relationship. ANYWAY. I'm not going to get into the perfect Lauren talk because you all say it so well. ;)

I want RS to become a regular too. She was more of a regular in s3 than this season where she was sidelined.
114. Darthfaeder
@Uberfae I agree with everything you said in post # 112. They have just gone over board with Lauren this season. It's almost as if they intentionally wanted Bo to become the bad guy only to set up Lauren to take Bo's place as the heroine? As far as I am concerned it's pretty much fanpandering once again to the doccubus crowd . They love Lauren and have sainted her beyond reason, and so now the ptb have completely changed the whole damn show around to have
Lauren the hero and have Bo the jackass who can't even see what the hell is going on. I can guarantee you this is Emily Andras that is doing this. It's her and her writing team and she doesn't even seem to care that she is alienating everyone else who watches the show. I am not just talking about the shipper fandom I mean the whole GA in general. There is no way that a majority of the whole fandom can be happy with season 4? Let's just put our shipper biases aside. Well I say that but I don't care who Tamsin is with as long as it's not Dyson or a dude, so I am not sure if that makes me a shipper? Wait I take that back I ship Tamsin's happiness and more screen time. I'm a Tamsin shipper but I just hope that her happiness is not with Dyson or a dude, cuz my happiness will suffer. Anyways it really is getting harder to be a fan of the show. If it wasn't for Tamsin and maybe Kenzi I would not watch the show at all.
115. onceinabluemoon

I disagree about Dyson. He has grown tremendously. Why shouldn't he have been angry about Rainer, and Lauren wasn't even in that episode when that happened. And I don't think that was a bad decision for him to be honest with Bo for how she was treating others and her family. What he said was true. She didn't know anything about Rainer yet she was giving up everything for him, and giving up the people she loved most. I enjoyed anyone telling Bo she was being a jerk including when Dyson did it because Lord knows she really needed some sense smacked into her.The box thing again I don't see as Lauren's fault or Dyson making a bad choice. Lauren wanted to tell her and Dyson did not, but with everything he went through in finally finding Bo and the possibility of losing her again, it would not have seemed realistic if he didn't have some reservations. He also realized that Bo is the person he has been searching for instead of a man to pleadge fealty too. Which kudos to LG for hinting at strong females again, and I agree with the other poster. I loved Evony telling Trick like it is about the male perception of what is just a strong powerful intelligent female leader. As for Dyson and him pledging himself, I honestly thought that was one of the sweetest moments in the ep. and Bo's reaction with tears in her eyes was heart breaking in the best way. I loved them together there. I've also seen how important family has become to Dyson outside of Bo. He loves the people around him not only because Bo loves them, but because they've become a part of his family. This was a huge transition from S1 where Dyson said some negative things about humans to now where he sees all as equal. He even thinks the light/dark divide has no bearing on who you are. Which he told Bo in 4x06. Light/dark doesn't define you. I think he has learned a lot from Bo and even Kenzi but he has taken those lessons as his own and become an even better man, and I think that was really shown this season.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
116. Kiersten
@onceinabluemoon Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes and more
117. onceinabluemoon
Hey @Kiersten

Don't know if your last post was in reference to mine at 115. where I was responding to @CJaneJ lol If it was glad you agree.

And I know you've been frustrated with the show this season, but I hope you won't give up on us here at H&H. :) I enjoy your views and contributions to this site. Just wanted you to know that.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
118. Kiersten
@onceinabluemoon a ha! yes, it was in response to yours. Comment corrected. ;)

Thank you very much. That's very sweet of you to say. At the moment, I have no plans to leave the H&H LG community or to not due the recaps for a potential S5. If nothing else, I'm stubborn enough to want to see it through to the end.
119. onceinabluemoon
@Kiersten lol Glad to hear it! And there's nothing wrong with a little stubborness. Cheers to a great and fun season S5.
120. nypinta
I think the writers made an error in keeping Rainer away from any of the rest of the cast when Bo brought him back. Right after they got back to the Dal she whisked him away to the hovel and refused to see anyone, and Kenzi felt so left out that she was sleeping at Dyson's (or Lauren's. I'm not sure, I just know she mentioned having an "overnight bag" so she wasn't staying at the crack shack for at least one night). Then in the next episode he was gone to some battlefield to pay tribute. He, nor Bo, made any attempt to introduce him to the gang. Including, most importantly, Kenzi. Even in the finale, the only time he had in any conflict was to snipe at Trick (and he was right too, BTW) and to throw himself at Massimo so Bo could live. If we saw him with Bo and Tamsin, who would know he wasn't the one who hired her and there for the rest of the gang might ease up on him a bit, and he was able to tell his side of the story some... they might have felt a little badly about his passing. But it was almost, 'Rainer who?' except when trying to use it to guilt Kenzi into not being as angry at Bo. (Of course Kenzi would reconcile with Bo, but it's like they were trying to compare Bo losing Rainer with her loosing Hale. Oh, not even, show. Not. Even.) But if he had gotten to know the gang, and maybe started to form some bonds, or you saw there was potential for friendships, it might have had greater impact when he gave all that up to save Bo. (Which, I still think he did when he allowed Massimo to kill him. They just didn't make that too clear on the show.) Maybe once his indentity was written back into the history books the gang would start to look at Trick like the villain instead, since he was responsible for cursing Rainer in such spectacular fashion. Then Trick would have to do some work to get back into the good graces of the gang, and maybe his showing up at the end to fight by there side was part of it. Because he's never done that before. He's usually off doing his own thing while the rest jump into the fray. Finally putting himself in danger is a nice step in the right direction for actual redemption for his shitty past (that he now remembers fully.)
I can see how the structure of the show might have been inspired by AS not being available right away, so they came up with the alt-reality episode and allowed her time to get back into the storyline, but I think they spent an episode or two too many on her not remembering what happened and trying to drag out this mystery. I did like the slight backwards style, the leaving of clues and each episode bringing Bo closer to the truth, but the whole fake out-ness of it makes it feel cheap, in retrospect. If, as I think, both Rainer and Bo were manipulated with false memories of her time on the train and in a way under a similar spell the rest were at the beginning which paired them up against their true feelings (like Dyson and Kenzi instead of Dyson and Bo...), I think we should have had that revealed too. Not just had Bo say, "You were wrong, Rainer was a good man..." like that was enough. We didn't get to see it from all of their POV. We didn't see his version of history, or even see the real truth. Which they could have shown in flashback after Rosette set herself aflame, because once the portal or whatever was opened, there was no need to hide what really happened to them both on the train from them. Instead of the season being split in two with "Before Memory" and "After Memory" it should have been in three parts. "Before Memory" then Bo rescues Rainer for the middle of the season and we have "After Memory" and then they both realize they were played so the last third of the season is "Find Out Why" which leads to Bo finding out who her father is and how to meet him, which is to handfast with Rainer, which he does willingly despite the danger even if the rest might not want her too, but she feels like she has to face him. Or they are misled and she thinks that if they handfast then she can go to him, not bring him to Earth. Or whatever. But have the truth of them being manipulated happen almost immediately after he is brought back rather then try and drag out the idea he might still be evil just to have it be in the very last episode, "nope, just a dupe". Maybe we'll see it next season, but I doubt it. It's gone and over. They'll move on. Whatev.
121. lonewolf
If we get, a once and for all official doccubus ship,( did I get that right ;) there would still have to be a compromise wouldn't there. Wouldn't Bo have to feed off others besides Lauren still. She had to in 3x4 Fae-ed to Black, when she got hit by the car and had to feed off Dyson because Lauren wasn't sufficient enough to help her heal. Unless of course, she gets her with the magic cream. Truth be told, I would rather see Bo stay single. It wouldn't take Lauren out of the picture completely, just take the spotlight off of her somewhat.

Dyson has sworn fealty to Queen Isabeau, I hope she doesn't start wearing the crown that was on the train. I guess that effectively takes care of the triangle,also. Now Dyson has to move on, how soon will that happen. And if he were get together with Tamsin I wouldn't mind. And speaking of Dyson and Tamsin, are they still working at the cop shop or does anybody work at all now. And speaking of Dyson again, when he and Bo were in her bedroom, she said something that made Dyson think she needed a boost. Then when she told him about Tamsin he just looked down with a dammit! look on his face. Is it just me or did it look that way to anybody else.

Bo and Tamsin, that would be a good match up, especially if Tamsin gets a little bit of her snarkiness back. I liked Tamsin from the start, even if she was trying to nail Bo for an assault that left a dark fae in a coma. Would I be correct in saying that a thread was started concerning Nordic myth or legend when Tamsin came on the scene. It didn't come out until the Kenzi Scale that she was a valkyrie, but they are from nordic myth. And now we have her bringing Rainer and possibly Kenzi to Valhalla. So what's going on with that. Even the Norn (that freaking norn) is from nordic myth. Do the fae have nordic roots or something. Just speculating, I did that a lot during the 412 discussion. Turns out that daddy was manipulating everybody, even me for crying out loud. The guy definitely had the mojo to do that.

Going back to Tamsin and Dyson meeting at the gates of vahalla. When Dyson got there she had a look about her that showed either sorrow for having to bring her there or sorrow because somehow Kenzi never made it there. I don't think she made it because of what levi told Bo about her seeing her again. But I will speculate no further, look where it got me the last time.

So the season is done, somewhat better than 3 but not by a whole lot. We never got to see the pyripuss, or whatever, we didn't get to see that picture of what looked like Rainer having a bad hair day for real. And most importantly, we never got to see Lauren's new dark digs. And we most likely never will now. I'll be reading a few more comments now and maybe come back later. But for now.....;)
Carmen Pinzon
122. bungluna
Somehow LG gets good guest stars but doesn't use them very well, imo. Maybe they charge by the word, so the show has to budget how they use them? (snark)

Anything is better than pornoseason3, but again I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth at the wasted opportunities. It started so well and then just fell appart.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
123. Kiersten
@bungluna - it really started good, didn't it? With the exception of episode 5, everything was tripping along, the Una Mens were properly scary, DL was finally coming into her own away from Bo, Dyson and Bo were back as partners in bed and out (mostly, tho not a couple), Tamsin was getting a second chance to "grow up" surrounded by people who loved her, Kenzi was speaking truth to Bo and finally moving on with Hale. And then we get to episode 10 (9 even) when Bo gets back on the train and the second Rainer gets introduced, the whole season implodes and in many cases what comes next undoes all that came before. Shame.
Carmen Pinzon
124. bungluna
That seem to be the pattern with LG after season 1, @Kiersten.

In S1 we had Aeife, who was a great crazy villain. It was dark and adult and sexy and everything an Urban Fantasy should be.

In S2 we get the Garruda, oh lord the boring Garruda. The tone turned a bit more to sexy romp rather than UF and everything got scattered and crammed resolution, of sorts at the end.

The less said about pornoS3 the better. All those so-called 'homages' to the most horrible of soft-core porn movies ever made just derailed the whole tone of the show. I didn't mind the Suckubus (much) but even that the writers couldn't carry out without waffling. All the important bits were left out. Tamsin was the only good thing, imo, about the whole debacle. The Wanderer showed possibilities.

S4 has been the most wastefull ever. We had mom Kenzie and Tamsin wasted. We had Evel Twins Lauren and Evony wasted. We had sweet romance Hale and Kenzie wasted. We have the Una Mens totally wasted. We had bitchy Bo instead of evil Bo, so again major wastage. The whole tone of the show devolved into a campy teen soap with delussions of mythhood that never quite jelled. Plus the platipus was an improbable evil bad that never actually was. Lets not talk about Rainer and Massimo at all, shall we?!
125. K K P
Bo and Lauren - Still got it - Still Hot !
126. TheUberFan
Well that totally makes up for the incompatibility and toxicity then, doesn't it?
127. newgirl
Actually i'm not quite a shipper to any relation, except maybe just Bo/Kenzi as family that is, but not any relation in particular, i'm not bother by the whole Bo/Lauren, Bo/Dyson, even Bo/Tamsin, i mean every show always do that whit the main characters, it's like a formula, they put them in some situation to bring them closer and then in some other to distant them apart as an elastic that always spread and then return to it's place, every show has that, that i learned after watching all 9 season of X-Files only to see if Mulder/Scully would progress, and it was almost for nothing, same goes for SG1, Buffy many in here have talked about that show, Buffy/Angel just a bit, Xander/Cordelia and that's not to mention Willow/Tara, when action series comes to the brink where the main character is in the fanworship relation (they can be in many relations with other people but not the really wanted one, like Dyson/Ciara, Bo/Ryan or even last seen Bo/Rainer), it comes to last 2 or 3 more seasons at most, because i don't know it seems the writers loose the edge and stop knowing how to write that, otherwise they just pull them apart for some other unexplicable reason (or even kill one of them), for example now Haven, Once Upon a Time, unless in the series start that they are a couple there won't be one unless near the end of the series, unless you're watching drama series those writers create balance between a grounded relationship and the show, but also the show is all about relationships, like Grey's Anatomy, the fosters (though they started as a couple and it's a very young series), but when the show is an action show it doesn't work so well, i'm still expecting for them to close Bones and Castle, because the show starts becoming dull (not those 2 example, but yes i'm waiting for them to give the series an end soon) or we can see CSI: Las Vegas, Grisom/Sara, or House House/Cuddy were they brought them apart again, there are many example the writers just don't do right staying in a serious relationship or having the main character "settle down", that goes with fans too because the people who started viewing the show, didn't do it for the couple did it for the action the writers brought, but when they create a stable couple the writers i don't know miss their point and all the play, the looks, all the yes but no complexity is gone, example of action series that ended after their couple became together almost every ended one, we have Chuck, Smallville, Alias, Fringe, Nikita, Farscape and many others, for me that's why the production staff always try to stretch before having a serious couple and that's why usually i don't have any ship on series, until the very end, meanwhile i enjoy "the playground": all those back and forward, i know in the end it would be someone.
And returning to LG, for me and for what LG has said to me so far, it would be Bo/Lauren until Lauren dies, then mourning and then, Bo/Dyson for eternity or whatever time there is, and maybe in that eternity some Bo/Tamsin playing around or even Bo/Tamsin/Dyson, because Bo/Tamsin so far is just lust, not like the real stuff, but most like "let's have fun" stuff.
128. lonewolf
@newgirl, all the more reason why Bo should stay single. Like I had stated in an earlier post, even if Bo and Lauren got together there would be a compromise in their ship because Lauren would not be able to satisfy Bo's need to feed. So, @K K P, Bo and Lauren will not be exclusive. There will always have to be a third party. Unless of course, Lauren gives her a taste of the magic vag cream. Either that or Lauren becomes fae. And why not give her the science to do it. It should be easy enough, it didn't take much science or time to come up with the cream.

And as far as that *I have to take care of Evony because I made her human and I have to follow the H Oath*, it's crap. It's probably more of a guilt trip, that's why she stayed behind. And how do we even know if she did stay with her. We didn't see it, and we all know a lot goes on behind the scenes. So it wouldn't surprise me, if come S5, we see them break up again. It won't last, Bo should stay single at least until Kenzi is found and brought back to us. Then Bo can get back to Lauren and maybe put Tamsin in the mix. There will never be just a doccubus ship exclusive to itself, never. Imho, that's how it should be.
129. newgirl
@lonewolf, I couldn't agree more with your:
Bo should stay single at least until Kenzi is found and brought back to us
ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Otherwise we will have kenz back by the end of season because they were "focusing" in Bo/???, no way!!! Besides i'm already thinking in the how much affected would Kenz come back, so they better go get her fast, we could end up with some "darker" Kenz
Susan White
130. whiskeywhite
I'm so behind, as usual. This morning's laugh out loud award: @bungluna's the **platipus** was an improbable evil, followed closely by her The craming of Doccubus down my throat during pornoseason 3 left me feeling like a goose nursing a ginormous foi gras. (Aren't such geese dead ducks?) Runner up award to @UberFaenatic for Tamsin was pretty much a potted plant this season.

I'm not laughing at your frustration @UberFaenatic. Tamsin's had some good moments this season -- the danceoff, the wings and gathering up Kenzi to go to Valhala. But you're right that she could be lots more.

I don't think that the triangle is over. And I don't think that's just wishful thinking on my part. 1) They don't dare drop the Dyson/Bo sexy times (at least, if not the romance). I think a significant portion of the (silent, and possibly silent majority, although I have absolutely no evidence, other than anecdotal about that) audience would just fade away. A show that features only (or mostly) lesbian relationships could hold a straight audience (Queer as Folk, overwhelmingly about gay men had a majority straight women audience). But only if it were a lot better written than LG is currently. 2) Rarely do people pledge themselves as generals only, and then end the pledge with "I love you" in what, as someone commented, sounded a lot like a marriage proposal. Remember back in season 3 when everyone was saying that Bo had "friendzoned" Dyson? Well the friend is still around and Bo continues to make liberal use of his benefit package.

@lonewolf -- sure, I think Dyson was disappointed when Bo told him that she had already fed off Tamsin. It was rolled into that sardonic "Oh really?"
Kiersten Hallie Krum
131. Kiersten
The friend is still around and Bo continues to make liberal use of his benefit package.

Snort. Benefit package. You stealing my lines now, @whiskeywhite? ;)
132. nypinta
I don't think it's always the writers that have to bring together and then pull apart characters. Way back when Joss Whedon was creating Firefly (god I miss that show) he had Wash and Zoe married from Day One. The network tried to get him to change that. He refused and said if they didn't understand why they were married, and would stay so, then they didn't understand what he was trying to do and he'd rather not make the show then write them as single and maybe getting together.

As for other shows, ever since Moonlighting, a show about bickering detectives that was cancelled after the main characters got together, there has been this attitude in Hollywood that main characters can't be in a relationship. (Did they forget about Heart to Heart? Loved that show back in the day. Married couple solved crime.) Castle decided to ignore that and got Castle and Beckette together and the writers promised they would stay that way. Their ratings have gone up. I don't think they meant to get Booth and Brennan together on that show, but the actress who played Brennan got pregnant and I don't think she wanted to hide it so they just wrote it in and they got them together in between seasons. A lot of fans were pretty upset that such a huge development would happen off camera. And by the time they did get them together the show had been on so long that the will they/won't they got tiresome and I would have been just as happy if they never got them together.

As for Lost Girl, I wouldn't really care who they got Bo with if it made sense. The sad thing is they way they keep altering characters backstories and situations and attitudes to fit a particular moment it makes Bo look like a jerk and the writers sloppy. The first two seasons the obstacles made sense, and fit the Lost Girl world of the fae the writers were trying to create. They got some of the details a little bit wrong IMO, but whatever. Dyson having his love stolen by a Norn and a former flame appearing made sense- in terms of that 'verse. Lauren having a greater reason than just medical curiosity for being with the fae established the Light (at least) as manipulative asshats. Good stuff. They wasted both Ciara and Nadia, but that's a different issue.

Then the third season happened. Getting Bo and Lauren together was a natural progression, except that they never name checked Nadia and it started to feel like rebound. Plus it seems the writers realized that there was a segment of the audience that didn't like Lauren so they started retconning her backstory and made other characters mouthpieces for her, altering them in the process and it was noticed by most people, and not in a good way. And because they were doing a 'fae vs humans' story line they had to trump up all the issues between Lauren and Bo with the feeding and with Bo being too busy with her fae stuff to pay attention to what Lauren needed, but they were also horrible at communicating and when they fought it highlighed how they regarded what each other did so that by the time Lauren decided she couldn't be with Bo anymore, it was for so many seemingly insurmountable reasons. Yet, when they brought her back this season, they ignored all of that. Bo ignores that Lauren broke it off with her and left. They ignore that Lauren was partially responsible for a lot of death. They had Dyson repeatedly restating Bo's love for Lauren even though he knew for a fact they broke up. And Lauren herself was acting oddly towards Bo by reinstating their no go status, yet vying for Bo's attention from Dyson, and then the whole "I joined the Dark for you" when at the time Evony abducted Lauren and brought her back no one knew Bo was Dark. Not even Bo. And if their conversation at the end of the episode is really supposed to be a continuation of their conversation from 3.01 then it's basically the writers stating that they're going to ignore everything that happened in both seasons so they can get two characters that are demonstratably not compatible because they made them so and just put them back together.

If they had written Lauren and Bo's relationship better and given Lauren logical reasons for her actions at the end of S3 that weren't solely her trying to get away from Bo, like as I suggested, Karen being a fae fake out and working for Taft a ruse for Hale but she stays away out of fear for her own safety. Plus, if Lauren accept responsibility for things Kenzi held against her so they worked out their issues logically instead of Kenzi suddenly being impressed with Lauren because she was a war doctor or some such yet while Lauren never acknowledged the crap Kenzi has lived through, or have had Dyson and Lauren grow to be friends not because the writers said so but because Lauren earned his respect and Dyson earned her trust, and had the conversation between Lauren and Bo in E12 focus on how damanged Lauren really was because of what the fae had done and how she thought she had gotten over Bo having to kill Nadia or the fact that she felt like she was loosing herself and that Bo, as much as she thinks she can, can't be there to protect those she loves and Lauren just needed some time to feel safe, to feel she could take care of herself, instead of the "I did it all for you" speach, then it might make sense for them to try again. But Lauren has got to start telling Bo stuff. She still hasn't told Bo about her past or that she understands the "spybang" in S1 wasn't OK, or anything about the humans that ended up dead because Lauren took off with Taft (although I still maintain Lauren is not responsible for him being crazy. But that doesn't really help the humans that are dead now, does it?) But after Bo gets Kenzi. Because at the beginning of the season the moment Kenzi realizes that Bo is gone she can't even look at Hale or begin to think about anything else until they get her back. To have Bo basically move on with other things in her life while Kenzi is gone would, once again, make Bo selfish.
Susan White
133. whiskeywhite
I'm taking lessons from the master, Kiersten.

@Uberfaenatic: I so agree:
I figured Bo was acting a certain way toward Dyson, Tamsin, Lauren and Kenzi because she was under a spell. I thought they turned her into a jerk because it wasn't her fault. Turned out she was just being a jerk.
Interesting argument @nypinta that the gang never got to know Rainer. Dyson of course has good reason to resent and be suspicious of him. Others, even Dyson given his crazy level of loyalty to Bo and her choices, might have been won over more. There better be some explanation about him next season, otherwise I don't see the point of him. Talk about waste.

@bungluna -- aw, I liked the Garuda. Sure the final battles were low budget letdowns, but I enjoyed the fiery arm-flapping, corporate CEO-dressed character himself. The scene where he taunted each of the heroic fighters with their feared weaknesses was fairly rivetting, I thought.

Yes, Kiersten, I think that is the answer:
At this point, Firestone should back a Brinks truck full of cash to Lovretta's door and beg her to come back for one last 22-episode season 5.
Is anyone going to watch "Star Crossed"? Probably mostly teen romance, but then so was Romeo and Juliet (I, too, will stay out of thunderstorms @lonewolf). Aliens as a discriminated against underclass, penned in an urban ghetto, was done much more powerfully and with more subtlety in the apartheid-themed film "District 9". But "Star Crossed" is certainly dealing openly with racism, albeit with a heavy hand (and an almost all-white cast).
134. newgirl
@whiskeywhite- When Dyson said that (oh really?) i think he said it because of whatever he and tamsin had in the end of ch12, remember Bo can read emotions from her chi-sucking, i believe that was what Bo was trying to said after Dyson kissed her back into herself when she said, "about that kiss..." and then they got interrupted by the sound of a bigger horde comming, i think she read Dyson as well as tamsin and Bo kind of know there was something, after the happiness she felt when feeding off tamsin, and for Dyson i think he is going to try to make whatever they had something posible, the Tamsin/Dyson i mean, although he knows he is in love with Bo, you see when he said to Tamsin, "if we don't get out of here..." and tamsin shout at him "Shut up!!", i think he was going to say something "nice" about what they share before
Kiersten Hallie Krum
135. Kiersten
Then it's basically the writers stating that they're going to ignore everything that happened in both seasons so they can get two characters that are demonstratably not compatible because they made them so and just put them back together.

@nypinta - this is a big point for me. If the goal is to make Bo and DL THE couple then WHY WRITE THEM SO ILLOGICALLY IN THE FIRST PLACE? Just write that story and stop with the back & forth shenannigans. For all I hated it, S3 was a full arc of the Bo/DL relationship (and as I've written before, a pretty interesting character arc for DL alone) but everything in S4 about them has totally ignored all that, which makes no sense. If the goal is to have 4.13 reflect 3.1 then just *do* that already rather than short-sheeting Bo and Dyson and shoehorning in some destiny crap with Bo and Rainer. I would hate it because of all the pain-staking work S3 took to show that sometimes love isn't enough and it doesn't automatically mean compatibility. but it would at least be a logical story flow. Instead we get this illogical cluster which pisses off all sides of the fandom and I quite simply dont understand what could ever give TPTB the motivation to do that.
136. newgirl
But after Bo gets Kenzi. Because at the beginning of the season the moment Kenzi realizes that Bo is gone she can't even look at Hale or begin to think about anything else until they get her back. To have Bo basically move on with other things in her life while Kenzi is gone would, once again, make Bo selfish.
I couldn't agree more to that and that's precisely my point to say i don't think they are going to have us with Bo resolving her "inner problems" with kenz missing, i hope the first chapter to start with the search and found of the other Helkor shoe (they may said they've been searching for 2 wekks now or a month even but keep it off screen) and to have a darker and vicious Bo (even torturing if necesary, the girl doesn't have a heart you know xD) and i hope any Bo/? relation is in pause mode, maybe 2 chaps for it (1 and 2nd ch) to get the shoes and then 3rd and 4th for Bo to get into Hel/Valhalla/Irkalla/Heaven/Hell, whatever there is to get Kenz and retrieving her at last. Though we had Bo searching for Kenz in S3, wich was great i loved how she fought everyone who stood in her way (even Lauren), so i don't think this time would be any less intense, well unless writers decide to give us again the "OC-Bo" they gave us this season with all her destiny pledge and prophecy playing. Hope not, hope same intensity as in Kenzi Scale
137. Darthfaeder
So just noticed That the Reddit website now has Lost Girl section and they are totally trashing the show as it should be trashed. Someone in
there said that Syfy actually split their budget and gave LG two seasons, so it looks like maybe Syfy will be backing a season 5 after all. Also some one over there suggested that they should cancel LG and give Kenzie and Tamsin a spin off series. You know that is a great idea considering alot of people like me just watch LG now just for Tamsin and Kenzie. I no longer give a rats ass about Bo and never could stomach Lauren. Maybe Dyson could be a recurring character, along with Trick and Vex? I'd much rather see Tamsin and Kenzie have adventures than Bo and Kenzie anyways. I don't think that the ptb will truely ever be able to get Bo and Kenzie back to where they were back in season 1 to much bad blood now. I for one think that the writers have done to much damage. Of course all this is contingent on Jay F. firing Emily Andras and all the writers. Bring all new people in on Tammers and Kez's big adventure. Also the best thing of all is no more doccubus Yessssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!! No more Bo and no more Lauren. Keep them off the show cuz their fans will just ruin it for the rest of us. I know that none of these suggestions will ever happen, but
after watching the debacle that is LG season 4 I am just trying to make things make sense again.
138. Bore-mudaTriangle
@newgirl I don't think that's what the "So about that kiss.." was about. He said, "Should I apologize?" and she said something about turning her off (as in turning her dark-self off). And I don't think Tamsin was happy because of Dyson. To me, she was probably happy that she was going to be able to take Rainer's soul to Valhalla and get back in their good graces. She was talking to Kenzi about it too, how it could be her golden ticket back in.

I don't know if they have anything or if it will turn into anything, but Dyson told Bo he loves her this episode. So if they are seeing each other, I don't think it has to do with wanting a relationship together or actual feelings (right now, anyway). How douche-y is that? "I love you Bo! I want a relationship with Tamsin, she'll be my No. 2."
139. newgirl
@lonewolf comment 85, having Angel playing a new love interest for Dyson, i don't think they are going to do that, unless they change whatever they have said before (as they did this season), because when Bo went to Dyson's memories she saw people there she knew (lauren, kenz i don't remember if vex was there too) because of her emotions toward those people were the same emotion Dyson had toward them, so Angel was Kenzi it means Angel is like a sister or a family member to Dyson, so i don't think they would put her as his new love interest.
I don't think that the ptb will truely ever be able to get Bo and Kenzie back to where they were back in season 1 to much bad blood now.
At least for me, they don't have to get them back as they were on S1, that's the point on a serie, the character HAVE to grow, otherwise fans get tired of the "same old, same old" and leave, what I want is they to be as confident as they were, not Bo trying to protect at all cost Kenzi or leaving her behind for some "bigger" issue (emotional or action issue), but they can't be the same "fae-world-innocent" they were, whose action were plain and just some random case the show throw to them, those were the beginnings, they must grow and get madure.
140. nypinta
@newgirl Agreed. This is why also I don't think the triangle is over. As much as it might have appeared that Bo chose Lauren, and the writers might have intended for her too, all of that was before Kenzi sacrificed herself. So when they come back next season they very much have the option of walking back on Bo's choice and having her focus on finding Kenzi only while the rest (hopefully) help her. Except maybe Tamsin who seriously didn't want Bo to get the shoes... and they can have relationships reconfigured to however they want. The unfortunate thing is that they have a tendency to think playing all the games with Bo and who she is with and the triangle plus auxiliary characters are fun for the audience, when it really isn't. I know that there were a lot of Valkybus shippers after S3, but if they weren't ever intending Tamsin to be an actual viable choice for Bo, I'd rather they left any of the one off shenanigans alone and have their relationship by platonic instead of teasing a segment of the fanbase and then pissing them off. Because outside of the fact that Tamsin didn't have a lot of interaction with Bo on screen, she had a pretty epic storyline this year. Her and Trick having a deal to clean her slate, her part in Rainer's curse, her bonding with Kenzi, having to be the one then to take Kenzi's soul to Valhalla, her getting her redemption... that's all pretty major stuff.

I think a lot of people consider Rainer such a waste because of the last minute feel of them switching him from potential big bad to 'oh nope, just another hottie fae' in the span of one episode. Then he was gone. Then he got a few scenes before he died. But his purpose was pretty cool. And how Trick's arrogance against Rainer not only created The Wanderer that the fae all spoke of in whispers and rumors, but also Trick erasing him from history also erased all the prophecies which would have come in might handy had the gang had them. Bonus points to Trick for basically putting the one person that Bo's father needed to get out in the perfect position to be used by him too. Kudos, Trick. That's freakin' talent.

Massimo was a waste. His character was so sly, confident, and slick last season. To change him from that to pathetic fae wannabe with mommy issues while handing him a source of ultimate power was... cheap? Pitiful? He could have been held over for Bo to have to deal with next season, too. But, I did like how Bo used her experience with her powers against him. That in itself was smart. I just wish it wasn't one smart moment after a bunch of lame ones. Now, if he had jumped into the lava pit because Evony had some kind of compulsion on him, and not just mommy issues, I wouldn't have thought he was so pathetic. But the actor did really good being pathetic. If that makes any sense.
141. nypinta
@newgirl Just to be clear, my agreement was to your post to me. Not the one directly above mine. Not that I disagree with anything in that one. Make sense? ;)
142. newgirl
@Bore-mudaTriangle, i didn't mean that part, but when they said:
Bo: About that kiss...
Dyson: Should I say I'm sorry?
Bo: For what, saving me?
And then they got interrupted and they change the subject with:
Dyson: Are you're okay?
Bo: Yeah. I feel awesome. Dyson, my father is close. I feel so powerful.
Dyson: You're channeling his energy through the portal. Can you control it?
That part you said is right after he kisses her and then start fighting with the zombies, they go like:
Bo: Oh, you need some new moves.
Dyson: Really? Works every time.
Bo: Turning me off instead of turning me on? You ready for a threesome?
Dyson: And you think I need new material? (I loved this part because she's been all this season saying that of the threesome LOL)
So, i think she was talking about she felt something different in the kiss, that's what i could gather from her expression.
And with Tamsin, maybe, 'cause what she said later can apply to both cases, her line was:
Tamsin: There will be time to mourn. Later.
Which could apply to Rainer's dead, but also she having regrets with Bo for she (Tamsin) been with Dyson, besides the way she act that scene seemed to me in body language she was uncomfortable with discussing that happiness, so i don't know it is valid for both choices (Rainer's dead and she been with Dyson) for me, and yes I understand what you said about she being number 2 and all, but she accepted that way, she told him "don't think, you think too much", i don't believe there's anything seriuos, but if the writers decide to give it a try i won't be mad.

@nypinta, comment 142, it makes sense don't worry, it happens to also, i start writing and finish with other comment in the middle, don't worry i get it :)
Susan White
143. whiskeywhite
@newgirl, I'll look for Dyson's "if we don't get out of here..." to Tamsin. But I agree with @Bore-mudaTriangle: How douche-y is that? "I love you Bo! I want a relationship with Tamsin, she'll be my No. 2." Dyson's not interested in a romantic relationship with Tamsin, though he does care about her and is apparently not averse to some 'friends with benefits' sharing (he does, after all, have a generous benefit plan). (I'll just milk that one a bit more -- hee).
Kiersten Hallie Krum
144. Kiersten
@Darthfaedar - Reddit is such a hodpodge it makes my head hurt just looking at the main page. Do you have a link to what you're talking about. I've never heard of Syfy splitting the budget before (not that that means anything) it's always been that they buy the seasons as is - Firestone pretty much does what he wants since he' EP of the show & owner of Prodigy & then sells the show to Showcase & Syfy & beyond. Or at least, that was the case for S1 & S2 & I though S3 too.

So if you have a link, that'd be helpful.
145. JDKnight
Season 4 improves with rewatching in sequence - they will need to bring out the DVD very quickly. It is quite possible that Kenzi was kidnapped by the Dark Lord. We may see some of her in his kingdom in the next episode. It is possible that the essence of wickedness intends to impregnate her since he has not yet been able to do that to Bo. The offspring would be Fae since whatever Kenzi is now she is certainly not human. I hope she becomes a Valkyrie - they seem pretty cool and Kenzi will have Tamsin to teach her all the tricks.

Incidentally, it is the end of the world in Viking mythology, this coming Saturday

It’s the end of the world as the Vikings know it, and it’s probably fine: Ragnarok, the Viking apocalypse, is coming this weekend.
In Norse mythology, Ragnarok goes down after the god Loki’s wolf grandson Skoll eats the sun, a very unchill thing to do. His brother eats the moon. This somehow unleashes their wolf-dad, Fenrir, a noted bloodthirsty curmudgeon. The Midgard snake Jormungand will surface from the depths of the sea. It gets worse from there. All the gods, like Odin, Thor, and some others that do not currently have days of the week named after them, show up to fight each other. It’s kind of like the Hunger Games but with pissed-off ancient deities. The earth will sink, the world will burn, and things will get maximum gnarly, death-wise.

And it’s supposed to go down this Saturday, February 22. Believers in the United Kingdom are holding a festival called Jorvik to celebrate, but for Viking lovers who can’t make it to York, eating a lot of Nordic smoked salmon and rocking back and forth crying hysterically is a perfectly acceptable way to join the festivities.

Good news, though: after the world is annihilated by a bunch of ornery ancient gods, it’s supposed to be restored as an idyllic paradise. So we got that going for us.

Read more: When Will the World End? Ragnarok Norse Viking Apocalypse on Saturday |
146. newgirl
@whiskeywhite, the "if we don't get out of here..." it's on minute 28, i have the srt open right now, for the quotes for Bore-mudaTriangle, and I understand what everybody is saying to me, i do really, and i wouldn't want them in a relationship if it wasn't serious unless is one with "no strings attached"/"friends with benefits" were "none get's hurt" supposedly, it is absolutely unfair from the writers to have tamsin for be the 2nd one and knowingly, but it has been done before, sadly and to me it seems to be were the writers are going, what Dyson said there, at the time, seemed to me as some sort of chivalry from him to tamsin, but tamsin response was the one that cut me out, because it was intense, too intense for someone who isn't expecting something, but they (writers) may want to give it a way around and join it with the "I'm not leaving you behind again" when he went to get her at the gates or when Bo and Dyson where hugging and tamsin came in, she looked a little off at the scene infront of her of Dyson and Bo, like if there were something between them (Dyson and Tamsin) but was supposed to be secret, that's the same signal i picked up when Bo talk about tamsin's happiness in her chi, maybe they get Dyson trying to do what the zombie lady said (i forgot her name) and is trying to set free of his own prison with Tamsin, at least trying "without thinking" as tamsin asked him that day at the Dal.
147. Bore-mudaTriangle
@newgirl Ah, yeah. She did seem uncomfortable but (if right about her being happy about Rainer) I wouldn't want to discuss being happy about his death to the person who stood by him/is mourning (or would be) over him dying. It would be insensitive of her.

I think a lot of things having to do with Tamsin's "could be" relationships (Dyson and Bo) were made so they were hard to decipher purposely. Where they could be taken two or more different ways, either in pro-Dyson or pro-Bo. Like when she kisses Dyson in 4x11, was it to deal with her wanting Bo and Bo not returning the feeling? Or because she's wanted Dyson for awhile? Or when she walks in after Dyson pledges to Bo, did she look sad (some may say jealous) because Dyson said he loves Bo/that he pledged to her? Or because she can't be as open with Bo as he is about how she feels? Or if the pledge was something so beautiful between the two that she would never be able to live up to it (either with Dyson or with Bo)? Tamsin has never had a love interest in the show, and they've never talked about anything that has happened between herself and Bo or Dyson, what they really meant or how they were supposed to be taken. I don't think they want to put Bo/Tamsin to rest so easily because they want to keep the Valkubus fans around/something to hope for. Just like how Dyson/Bo shared a kiss this episode and a beautiful pledge with an "I love you." It was probably to give DyBo fans some hope going into season 5 even though Bo "chose" Lauren. Even EA said she "isn't sure" what's going on between Dyson/Tamsin vs. Bo/Tamsin. She is probably just saying that because if she says she isn't sure, that gives both a glimmer of "it can happen still!"

Honestly at this point, I don't care who ends up with who. I just want to have a good storyline. I don't want any more fan service (I can hope, right?) But we all can assume that even if she chooses, there will ALWAYS be the fan service. Especially if Bo chooses Lauren, obviously Bo will need others to feed from. They'll have Bo feed from Tamsin/Dyson just to give the DyBo/Valkubus fans a bit of hope/happiness or give them a few meaningful glances/words, only to have her go back to Lauren and ignore everthing that has happened between the other ships. I don't like Lauren, but if Bo chooses her, then leave it at that. It pisses other ships/fandoms off to be teased and it only seperates the entire LG fandom more. They have it so split up over ships that the end should either be single Bo, or polyamorous Bo.

Wow, sorry, long ramble. :l I love you guys, though. ;) Btw, I think I am going to start watching Orphan Black! I hear such good things about it.
148. Darthfaeder
Hey Kiersten all you will need to do is google Redditt Lost Girl and the web page is the very first one you'll see. The comment I read was posted by ModernRonin under the " Dark Horse " season 4 discussion thread.
the address is girl/comments/1y4.
I thought it was a pretty cool place to get different kinds of information about Lost Girl.
149. newgirl
It is possible that the essence of wickedness intends to impregnate her since he has not yet been able to do that to Bo. The offspring would beFae since whatever Kenzi is now she is certainly not human.
Waaaaayyyyyyyyy tooo Xena, no i can't think they doing that, although EA in ch11 interview said "Is it really the worst to be Xena?", no it isn't, at all!!! i personally loved Xena big time, still do huge time, but it is outraging you are trying to look like Xena so obnoxious and blatantly, and by having Kenz with some evil spring... as i said before in some comment "been there, done that", and way much better that they could in LG, because i don't see either Bo nor anyone in the show to have the moral integrity to go after your best friend infant to kill "it" and safe the show after that, no way, i hope they don't go down that path, reeeeeaaally hope they don't, tortured Kenz i can do, darker Kenz i can do, but mother-of-evil-spring Kenz big, if not huge, mistake.
150. newgirl
Sorry ch12 EA's interview.
151. newgirl
@Bore-mudaTriangle, Orphan Black you won't regret it, i'm also waiting big time for Continuum to be back, OB main actress awesome, really good job, as for LG, i just go with the flow, they (writers) want D/T fine with me, i see the show for kenz/bo and this last season i really liked tamsin/kenz, about tamsin character sometimes she have me at lost, because somtimes acts like the tamsin we knew from s3 and then returns to be this young valkyrie version of herself, so sometimes i don't know how she would react like her old self or like the teen inexperience one
Susan White
152. whiskeywhite
It was a good long ramble @Bore-mudaTriangle. I agree that there are many ways to read Tamsin's reactions to Dyson & Bo. But she knows Dyson loves Bo. Would she think that has changed?

Thanks for the precise location of that Dyson/Tamsin exchange @newgirl. I'm looking forward to "Continuum" as well.
153. Bore-mudaTriangle
@newgirl Yeah, I've seen a lot of people recommend OB. I'm gunna start it tonight. :D I'll look into Continuum too. :)

I'm also just going to go with the flow. I really miss the old Bo/Kenzi friendship and one of the few things I really liked this season was Tamsin and Kenzi's relationship. And I agree that sometimes Tamsin is a bit of her old sarcastic self, but other times she's more..uhm.. open/emotional about things, but I guess it's just how she is now. A mixture.

One thing I want to comment on, when Evony complains about having a wedgie.. how does being fae (or not) have anything to do with your underwear getting stuck in your buttcrack? ;P
154. newgirl
And I agree that sometimes Tamsin is a bit of her old sarcastic self, but other times she's more..uhm.. open/emotional about things, but I guess it's just how she is now. A mixture.
And is that precise mixture the one i think is what gives tamsin the idea that, something might change with Dyson, but as a teenager she doesn't want bo to know, because she might be mad at her for "stealing" her ex-boyfriend/love interest or whatever Dyson is, as in some sort of BFF pledge "my BFF's boyfriend are out of the picture for me" way, that was the reaction i saw with the happiness, the superficial "i don't want to talk about it, whatever" of a teenager when its hiding something (at least as they picture in TV shows). Buuuuut i won't dwell anymore on that, let them do their please.
155. lonewolf
@newgirl, I have to agree with you about Angel not being a new love interest for Dyson, but one can dream can't they? But the last we knew, when Bo was in Dyson's memory he had both shoes. Then when Bo came back from Dyson's memory she knew where the shoe he had was. Which of course she used to get both Dyson and Kenzi free. At the Dal someone, I forget who, Kenzi maybe, asked about the other shoe to which he replied that he gave it to Angel, a fellow shifter to hide. So if she still has the shoe then maybe we could get a guest spot for someone to play Angel if only for an episode or two. I have to reiterate, Bo should stay single until Kenzi is found. There can't possibly be anyway for them to get back to the Bo/Kenzi ship (am I getting that right)they had in S1. To that I agree,also. They have both grown, but I think between the two Kenzi has grown/matured the most. And that's what I wanted to see more than anything as the seasons came and went. I think she was actually more mature than Bo from the start. Bo had her supernatural ability to survive, Kenzi had her wits and will. And that's why I thought of her as the warrior.

Going back to the shoes, we know that Bo gave the one that Dyson had to the una mens in return for their freedom. But we never heard anything about whether or not they took it after Bo slaughtered them. Not that that matters any, I'm sure we'll find out what happened to it next season.

@nypinta, I didn't see Vex in E7, but I thought it was great seeing Cassie. She has grown up from the kid we saw in S1,E5 when she gave Bo a little taste of what she could do. I'd like to see her again for a spot appearance.

@bungluna,122 Lg did have guest stars that seemed to be a waste having them on there. The first was George Takei, there was such a build up about his doing a spot appearence, then what do we get, a snake with listhp.

@nypinta, 132, I remember Heart to Heart, it was an excellent show. I haven't watched Castle since I told the cable company to take a hike because of their increase in monthly charge. I could probably get it on pftv so I may check it out. But you say that Castle and Beckette got together finally. I was hoping for that. I believe it was you@newgirl, about comment 127, I watched Greys Anatomy for the first season then it got to dramatic for me. I watched Buffy for a couple episodes but got sidetracked and never finished anymore episodes.

But with all that aside, I did a little poking around about Vahalla and Odin and what not. It turns out that he was also known as* The Wanderer* and he had a favorite shaman warrior group called *the berserkers* and most surprisingly of all, Odin was or could make himself transgender. He would participate in a shindig called Seider. That guy was all over the place in more ways than one.

I'm going to have to read more discussions to process it all and go back and watch certain episodes to get better informed about what some of the discussion is that we have going on here right now.
156. nypinta
I sometimes think that Lost Girl suffers because it has such a vocal online fanbase, in a similar way that LOST suffered. I have a theory that the writers of LOST had a plan for the show but by the second season they saw that many in the audience had figured out what it was and what was supposed to happen so the writers started to change it all just so people wouldn't be right and things got convoluted and strange. Then, like Lost Girl, the network wanted more episodes because the ratings were so good and they ended up having to stretch out storylines, but things got weirder and weaker. At least on LOST the powers that be behind the show told the network they were stopping after so many episodes, regardless of ratings, because they had a specific story they wanted to tell and dragging things out was ruining it. Yay them!

I suspect that The Wanderer was going to be Odin, but people online figured it out so they decided to really change things up and that is why this season was such a switcheroo. They purposely let everyone believe that Rainer was "The Wanderer" not a wanderer, and that he was going to be the big bad of the season and we all followed along trying to figure out what happened to Bo on the train and we were giving small flashbacks that supported the idea he was her father and he wanted her his Queen and blah blah blah then BAM out of the blue the writers screamed from the TV, "psyche!" It wasn't just misdirection, it was a lie. That's not clever. I'd rather have a good solid story with believable characters and consequences to decisions made by said characters then I would "clever" that kept me guessing because their plot points didn't add up.
157. stacymd2
@JDKnight: I will not do the traveling, rocking back & forth or crying hysterically, but I definitely see myself eating salmon this weekend.

@lonewolf: You can watch some of the current episodes of Castle on Other ABC shows are there as well. I am tempted to tell DirecTV to suck a lemon as well, but my family would boot me out of the house. They are not fond of watching TV online like I have become.

@Bore-mudaTriangle: Orphan Black is really good. The premise is out there, but it hooks you in.

Game of Thrones (HBO): April 6th

Continuum (Syfy): April 4th
Warehouse 13 (Syfy): April 14th
Defiance (Syfy): June 2014

Orphan Black (BBCA): April 19th
The Musketeers (BBCA): June 2014
Dr. Who (BBCA): TBD-2014

Vikings (History): February 27th

Witches of Eastend (Lifetime): October 2014

Da Vinci's Demons (Starz): March 22nd
Outlander (Starz): TBD-2014

I'm going to miss Warehouse 13, sob!
158. iSpannerss
Personally i wasnt a huge fan of this season. I believe that Tamsin needed alot more character development and she did not to be anything of her former self. I wanted scenes like she had in the bath with bo, thats the true Tamsin. Although i do love Lauren they need to really sort out whats going on between her and Bo, Lauren is obviously who Bo loves the most out of her 'choices' but she needs to stop going off with others and make up her mind !
This is season was a huge let down luckily in the last few episodes it started seeming more like the true 'Lost Girl' starting with Hales death that was very sad and Ksenia's acting was incredible. The last episode though dull and confusing in some places was very emotional and it hit me hard. I could not stop sulking after Kenzi saved them all, it was so heart wrenching and the acting, especially from Tamsin was incredible and i applaud them for that scene.
I do hope next season will be better and they should definately bring Kenzi back, she may not be my favourite character but the show would certainly be nothing without her.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
159. Kiersten
@iSpanners - hi and welcome!

Actually, I thought it was the beginning of season 4 that was most like the original Lost Girl, what with all the winks and nods to S1 and everyone acting more like themselves and Dyson and Kenzi back in their roles as 2nd and 3rd leads and everyone eventually (mostly) back together. It was all pretty good up till about E5 when they shoved Bo and DL back together neatly ignoring everything that happened at the end of S3 that proved their inability to maintain a relationship along with all the horrible things DL has done, to Fae and humans, without ever being held accountable for and then once Bo got *back* on the train and presto! Rainer is my destiny! it all just rambled on from there to the end into a total train wreck of a season.

Tamsin definitely got truncated in many ways, which was a shame. She's not a character you can dump in and out of episodes easily & they need to use her better or cut her loose. Maybe part of that was having her and Hale in the same season/episodes as they both sorta fill similar roles with Kenzi and Dyson and partially Bo, I dunno. But after making such a big deal about *not* killing her at the end of S3 as originally planned, she definitely shouldve gotten a better shake of things in S4.
160. lonewolf
@JDKnight, I had read about the viking end of the world also. I was going to put it on here but I didn't want to scare anyone.;)

@newgirl, comment 149, I read a tv guide Canada (?) interview with EA and she compared Bo's and Xena's costumes. I thought that, along with this norse myth business, they were going to try to write (shoehorn?) in something along the lines of Xena. It is up to them what they do. But I agree, no evil spawn from Kenzi, that would be so Xena-esque.

@nypinta 156, I watched the first season of Lost and it didn't grab me at all. It does make sense that the writers stretched it out some.

@Bore-mudaTriangle, fae women must be wedgie proof. I got a good laugh at that. That and her making a pass at Trick.

@stacymd2, thanks for giving me a link to watch Castle.

And to everyone out there that is considering Orphan Black I would recommend it. It is a terrific show and Tatiana Maslany is an excellent actress, she plays everyone very well. I like the intro also, trippy. I'm already down to the last two episodes.
Carmen Pinzon
161. bungluna
@whiskeywhite - Ok, I admit the Garuda had his moments, but I thought he was wated. I forgot Lacklan who was also wasted as a great posible anti-hero, imo.

@Darthfaeder - Maybe they can have WonderMengeLauren give SuckyBo a taste of her special vaginal cream and then, both of them human, they can go off to live with "them simple country folk" on a farm with a white picket fence!

@nypinta - yes, the actor playing Massimo was good at a pathetic role. That's one of the most disappointing things about LG: they have some really great actors working there. They keep us watching this train wreck. NO thanks whatsoever to the inept writing staff.

@Bore-mudaTriangle- yes, the writers seem particularly fond of ambiguous set-ups that give them an out in future, if so needed. To have good strong story, you have to plan in advance and then stick to it. I love Jim Butcher because he does this; things he wrote in book 1 are relevant in book 12 because he planned out his overall arc! I don't see EA and Co., who can't even be bothered to keep up a show bible, planning diddly squat, let alone a solid story arc.

@Darthfaeder- thanks for that addy. Good stuff:

@lonewolf-I've been sure one too many times that "next season" will answer the gaping plot holes left. Nope, not holding my breath for HelShoe answers. Or any others that actually make sense.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
162. Kiersten
@bungluna - you steppin' out on me with another recapper???? I mean, REALLY!

Kidding, that was pretty frickin' funny. And she loves Dyson so...all good!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
164. Kiersten
@Bungluna - its not a true love until you buy me a silver pendant necklace and never actually give it to me...
165. lonewolf
@bungluna, I have a saying about *common sense, if it were an animal, it would be damned near extinct.* I think it could apply to what's going on with LG right now.
166. Bore-mudaTriangle
@Kiersten But then you'd have to steal the necklace and wear it, assuming @bungluna still wanted you to have it. ;)

Btw, that recap was pretty funny @bungluna! I liked the Massimo/Lauren pic and by Lauren it said, "Thinkin' bout pussy" and "next time you have sex w/ Evony call me, K?" ;P
Carmen Pinzon
167. bungluna
@Kiersten - You know you're the ONE, but I'm a Read-a-bus and must feed my insatiable needs from other inferior sources or else go MAD! I've bought you a silver blogmark but haven't given it to you, I know. It's tucked away awaiting for you to brouse upon it randomly and make all the right guesse conjectures divinations connections!
168. nypinta
@bungluna I stopped watching LOST because I couldn't stand Jack.

I was thinking about it the other day and I know that they started filming before AS was ready to come back after having her baby boy but I think they should have waited a few more weeks and I think they should have jumped past her coming back and started with Turn to Stone. Last we see in S3 is Bo whisked away in a puff of smoke and Tamsin and Dyson go over a cliff and we come back and Bo and Dyson are... boxing? And she's different. Dyson says so. He's warning her about the Una Mens. The Una who? He asks if she's heard from Lauren. Nope. Don't care to either. Ah... so we think obviously Dyson and Tamsin survived and nothing really happened to Bo.... so, uh, ok...? And instead of Lauren hiding out in a coffee shop she's working at a human lab and is happy. But things are not as OK as we think. Because after boxing, Bo goes "shopping" and picks up some smoking outfits for her and Kenzi so they can get their dance on at the Dal, despite the dour mood with the Una Mens in town. It's like Casablanca and Bo is the only one that doesn't care and that's not OK! Kenzi is somewhat concerned but.... ooooh, are those new boots? But at the end Bo finally decides to confront the Una Mens because she's Bo, what are they going to do to her? She doesn't care about rules or sides and screw them and wait, I'm Dark now? WTFae!?

Second episode Tamsin comes back. She's full grown but acting like a teenager and has obviously bonded with Kenzi and she doesn't understand why everyone has forgotten that Bo disappeared and oh, someone put a spell on everyone to make Bo forget she was gone at all! Who would do that? (Trick.) Bo breaks it and suddenly Kenzi & Dyson recall months of worrying and looking for her and fending off the Una Mens and raising new Tamsin and blah blah blah.... suddenly Massimo remembers Kenzi owes him a debt and steals all their stuff.

Then go on from there. Bo has to retrieve her memories of being gone so she can figure out what happened to her. But she should go back onto the train by the 5th or 6th episode. Let Rainer bond with the others. But she shouldn't be convinced he's her destiny or anything. He's an ally and although they might not, she trusts him. But takng too long to even get to the puzzle seemed to just annoy everyone.
Susan White
169. whiskeywhite
The 'other' recapper was funny (not as funny as you Captain). I liked the picture of Dyson with "Woof" written on it. (just in case you hadn't figured out where my interests lie). We may flirt with other recappers, but we know where home is.
170. lonewolf
@Kiersten, do you have a recap of 13.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
171. Kiersten
@lonewolf - I will but not for several weeks yet. The recaps here at H&H follow the U.S. schedule, so right now we've got one up for the recently shown episode 6 "Of All the Gin Joints".
172. Saelath
Been creeping on a few of the threads but never make it to the bottom. So I'll share my opinion of the season and finale and go back to creeping.

After much time to digest the season and rewatching still doesn't make sense to me. I think maybe enjoying the episodes as little stories rather than a season-long storyline would've been better. I do agree the writing has gotten sloppy. Although a lot of the new ideas introduced were great. I agree, lack of follow thru with the build up was its downfall.

Dissatified with the finale. A lot of things were glazed over or just
thrown in there. The whole shadow theif thing...what was the point of
even bringing it up? That was a failed element. Rainer and his
foresight... there has to be something more there. Worried how they'll work it back in if they decide to. Hels portal... if Tam could lay waste to entire armies and their were only like 40 dudes at a time, why did they even need to fight? Why did Bo have no sense of urgency with the impending apocalypse?

I am Team Lauren since season 1. However I like seeing Bo playing the field. Especially since ships on LG are doomed anyway. Bo, this season has been off and I'm not quite sure she's going to come back to my understanding of normal. She seems to have lost her compassion she had before. It's all about protecting her things; her friends and her legacy as the unaligned succubus who doesn't play by anyone's rules, decides her fate and now the fate of others, yadda yadda. Seems like she's headed to go off the rails based on those words at Kenzi's grave.

I loved the mixing of characters and the realtionships that bloomed this season. Docson, Tamzi, Evony/Lauren, Valcuson (Tam, Bo, Dyson), Kenzi/Dyson/Lauren, whatever else I missed. Love the characters can mingle without it revolving around Bo and get stuff done and the chemistry is there. I'm hopeful for season 5. Hoping they get their s-it together.

And yeah, I agree Ksenia Solo was outstanding this season. Great acting. Also she had the best wardrobe the whole season. I felt like some of the costumes were off, especially Bo's.

Sorry for the long message.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
173. Kiersten
@Saelath - hello and Welcome! Glad you came out of creeping to leave a comment. Dont worry about being too long. There really is no too long here as a short glance at some of my posts will confirm. Have at it!
Susan White
174. whiskeywhite
Welcome @Saelath. Hope you'll hang around. "Valcuson" - love it, but thanks for the explanation.
Suzanne Metaxas
175. SuzyM
Welcome @Saelath :) Always glad to have different views! Long posts are welcome ;) gives us something to read since LG is done for this season :D
177. newgirl
@stacymd2, 157, me too, i'm going to miss Warehouse, specially Claudia, a lot!!!! And almost every serie you i'm looking forward the next season, except Dr Who(too many seasons for me to keep up) and Outlander, so long waiting until those returns, luckly there's always something to watch.
@Saelath, i really enjoyed the "mixing of characters", they did this season, it can of intertwined every character, even Dyson and Lauren i remember the chapter that start with Bo cleanning her car, that scene was hilarious, lauren watching then dyson, hale screwing the sigth view with his rambling of the party, lauren and dyson trying to get in the car next to bo after her mention of cloth removal, i like it lol.

So i have three questions, please help with this, can someone tell me Bo in the train when she was going to get down, not after she got down, right before, when she was picking the door's lock, and she mentioned Kenzi, she looked like someone who didn't know where she was, as an amnesian person, who get flashes of their memories, and she didn't remember Rainer, but in the memories of Rainer and her in the train, Rainer said she would forget him the minute she got off the train and tha's why she came with the idea to pledge to the dark and everything else, but he didn't say anything about not remembering your friend from before or every morning having to remember him as in some sort of "The 50 first dates", what was that then??
The other question, what was Kenz doing in the morrigan place??!! For the looks when Dyson arrives she had called him and she is talking about HER blood been everywhere, i thought they were talking of lauren, but then Dyson asked "and where is Lauren??" and Kenz said "There's no signs of her", so they were talking of Evony, why do you care for the morrigan????(ok insensitive thought, but you are worried for Evony, why??!!) What were Kenz doing there, she had a "fight" with Bo and goes to see Evony...??
Aaaand the other question, the picture Kenz found with Bo the... i don't know, eighteen century, was that something to come or was some kind of allegation to when she was on Dyson's memory?, besides she's wearing the present cloth the jacket and all not the costume of that time, as if it was someone traveling in time and getting in that era, if it is a future to come, might that mean Bo would have to go to the past to know where Angel put the other shoe, because i d0n't know Angel is gone or something like that, please any insights in these questions is more than welcome.
By the way @lonewolf i would like a guest start for Angel too.
178. nypinta
I don't know about the memory discrepency, but I think this is the order of things:
Bo gets smoke napped out of The Dal.
The spell that makes everyone forget her is activated. I think it also means she retains knowledge of herself while on the train. She and Rainer are manipulated by Bo's father into falling in love so she'll agree to help him off the train. They set about planting all the necessary clues.
The spell that makes everyone forget her is broken. That has a side effect of making Bo forget herself while on the train. She wakes up and just wants off the train. I think she sees the crown at that time and jumps to conclusions and she also sees the mark and freaks out. So she feeds off the maid and starts to heal and starts to remember Kenzi and the others. She jumps. Then the normal spell of the train itself because of Trick's curse kicks in and she forgets ever being on the train in the first place.

So it's like three different levels of memory. But we don't even know if the one's of Bo and Rainer being all lovey are real or not. They didn't fully explain all of the discrepencies and I don't think they ever will. We're just supposed to accept both versions of what went on and ignore how different they are or how they jar against what we're told.

As for Kenzi and Dyson at Evony's. I think they arrived together but Dyson left Kenzi to talk to Evony while he searched her place for Lauren. I think the blood was supposed to be her guards and stuff that Massimo probably took out. I guess? Because it doesn't make much sense. And he'd have to be pretty skilled at fighting to take out Evony's guards will still human. Well. He did seem sneaky and he got the drop on Kenzi a few times and once he had that bow... (way in the beginning.) I still don't understand him. I get he might have mother issues and all but he explained that he was surprised when the twig of Zamora saved from the lava so he willingly jumped in not knowing he'd survive? That is more than just mommy issues. That's a compulsion that overrides personal saftey. I think he's been bespelled or something too. And I guess his complete mental breakdown could be attributed to going insane from the pain of swimming in motlen lava for days just to retrieve Valkrye hair. But like Taft he was a character that could have had some depth and they just made him evil for evil's sake.
179. jdknight
The blood could have been from Evony's period. Thinking of the 4400 and Promycin. Maybe Lauren invented that in an alternative universe
180. newgirl
@jdknight, lol ;)
@nypinta, the problem is, they (production staff) don't explain anything, this is it and jump yourselves to any conclusions, that's totally not fair.
What about the painting, i said picture before, sorry is a painting, of Bo, what was that? Can it be a time-travel??? And someone from that time saw so ackward Bo with her jacket that drew her or is it La Fae Epoche all over again??
By the way and completely off-topic, what happened to comment 176, it jump from 175 to 177?
181. Darthfaeder
@Bungluna I'm LMAO and have tears flowing. That was so damn hilarious!!!!! what you said about Lauren using the magical vag
cream on Bo and them both being human and living on the farm!
PRICELESS!!!!!! Those two still won't make it because they aren't
compatible even the two of them as humans. Lauren will still be way
to needy and smart for dumbass Bo who probably barely graduated from High School LOL!!!! Of course Bo will always be about Bo.
Its a shame that I can't think of anything good to say about Bo right
now. That is how far that character has fallen in my eyes. For the life
of me I don't understand why Bo would make Tamsin happy? Why
should Tammy want to even get involved with a hot mess like Bo?
I have to say I think I'd love for the LG ptb introduce another Valkyrie who is a recurring character to become Tamsin's new love interest.
Let Dyson just date whomever, Tamsin and her new Valkyrie gf, and
old Lauren and Bo maintain their toxic love affair. You are welcome
Bungluna for the tip about Reddit/Lost Girl website. I saw a couple of
interesting things in there to read. :)

Welcome Saelath! There are alot of people who have joined that I never got around to welcoming so I guess I will do that now. Welcome to all the newbies hope you enjoy your time here. I'm just so busy posting at several other sites that never had alot of time to spend at any one place this season 4. I almost wish that I never bothered to watch season 4. I
almost wish that we all could have just skipped from the end of season 3 to the beginning of season 5. Sorry but season 4 was one big waste of time for me, and I serious got damn tired of being led on by Emily Andras and flat out lied to. I think that I will stick around for the first
month of season 5, just to see if they were able to fix this mess that has become LG. Having said that any hint of Tamsin getting together with Dyson will be my quick ticket to quitting LG all together. I could have easily easily easily accepted those two back in the beginning of season 3
but not now. There was never ever any foundation work laid out suggesting that Tamsin had any romantic feelings for Dyson what so ever. As a matter of fact like I stated before it is absolutely cannon that she's in love with Bo. You can't stop her from one minute being in love with Bo and then the next minute being in love with Dyson. I don't give a rat's ass what the poster NEW GIRL said in post # 154. You are welcome to see what you want, but I in no way am buying what you said. For the PTB to do that without the laying any ground work what so ever is absoluetly unforgiveable and ridiculous. That will be the main reason why I won't watch LG anymore. I am sick of having this contrived crap being shoved down my throat as if I was a seven year old child that doesn't have choice. Well I do have a choice and if they push me any further I will act on that choice I do have and no longer watch the show. Sorry for the Rant but I am still really pissed off right now.
182. newgirl
@Darthfaeder, i'm only saying they created a precedent with Acacia talking to Tamsin about little wolves, and then tamsin all over dyson and in ch13 tamsin is acting like a teenager in front of her hidden boyfriend, you can see it in the scene when she interrupted Bo and Dyson after the pledge of fealty, she was looking at Dyson and when Bo and Dyson left she stays behind and try to reach Dyson's eyes, but he misses it and keep walking after Bo, sometimes details are nonsenses sometimes it might seems one thing but have many explanations, as i said in 154 i won't dwell on it, if they bring together Dyson/Tamsin i would only be glad if dyson is, because he has been always at the loosing end of the whole triangle, he is always after Bo and Bo into him in a sexual way but always rambling about Lauren, wich is way... i don't care how they are going to do those parts, and hey you want a bigger "unforgiveable and ridiculous" situation that all Bo's ranting about her destiny is with Rainer when her motto on the intro is "I would live the life i choose", quite a way to choose to live a life already predestined for you Bo, way to defend your cannon characters production team, so i think they would do D/T or B/T as they please, they kind of loose some selfrespect. I know what you said about B and Tamsin i saw it too, my favourite scene of that is in season 3, tamsin drunk, bo in the tub, and tamsin goes describing her price to hunt (eyes both brown and blue, lustful yet rightous, i dont remember the whole thing...) and tamsin goes like: what you got to be so perfect? but since tamsin reborned they have her as if she want bo to like her, but because she was so evil before and so mean she want to be liked as to make amends, though in the party they went all the way around, even bo told her: tell me you didn't want this, when tamsin said: in front of everybody? So yes i see t/B the writers had been giving hints on D/T, that's all i'm saying.
183. Darthfaeder
Hey NewGirl sorry if I came off a bit pissy it's just the more I thought about how my favorite show has been almost ruined the angier and
more sad I got. The fact is I dont' thrust the PTB or the writers anymore. They actually sent out congraduatory tweets and slaps on the backs to each other for season 4. They actually thought that what they did was great. How am I suppose to trust them now? The Acacia thing I think was simply to set up that make out scene in episode 11. Jay F. said they did that scene to get the fans reaction. Well I saw the reaction by the fans and for the most part it was not pretty. Oh and I agree the whole thing about Rainer was ridiculous and unforgiveable. I will say that we don't know if the look on Tamsin's face was caused by feelings for Bo or Dyson. Sorry but that scene for me was way to ambiguous to call it either way. Anyways I look forward to reading more of your posts. :)
184. newgirl
@Darthfaeder, don't worry, i understand, i think we all are going through the same, the production created something good and have been doing so much crap, that it costing them dearly fans, by the way... i'm kind of newbie so... PTB is something like Production Team Behind or something?? And yes like i said with nypinta or bore-mudatriangle, the happiness quip was ambiguos maybe was for rainer's death and they did everything like that, i think it was to not get compromised so they can back their way out without screwing (even more) the show, and don't worry for the rant it is good to take those things out of our system ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
185. Kiersten
TPTB = The Powers That Be or PTB = Powers That Be i.e. those people who hold god-like power over what happens on the shows we love.
186. newgirl
Thanks Kiersten, like that term lol
Carmen Pinzon
187. bungluna
I have a theory about the writing staff.

All the actually creative people fled the show when Firestone decided to turn it into a fanwank service. We were left with amateur hour who think it's "fun" to throw crap out and see what sticks. After all, it's fantasy! Why worry about logic, mythos and continuity? Let the fans contort themselves into pretzel shapes to make sense of it all; that will keep 'em busy! Plus it will give the writers more ideas as to what other crap to sling, because it's obvious that they troll the sites for fanwanking material.

bitter, who, me?
188. Darthfaeder
Bungluna I always knew there was a bit of a genius to you. :) I think you theory is top notch and spot on. I think after watching all the fans
react bitterly and badly to the crapfest that is season 4 Emily A. and
company won't want to do much trolling for awhile. Yes I am bitter too so you are not the only one. Who else out there is bitter? Come on we can all
be a part of the bitter LG club.
Susan White
189. whiskeywhite
I was watching a "making of Sherlock" special feature today and one of the things the writers were saying was how critical it is not to write something just because you think the fans will like it. That you have to tell your own story and do the best possible job at doing so. Where have I heard that before? Oh, here! Of course, it helps if you have the power (and wallet) of the BBC behind you.
190. Darthfaeder
Hey Whiskeywhite after thinking about it I've decided to throw a little grace towards Jay, Emily, and Co. They probably love LG as much as
we do, and are most likely as desperate to see LG succeed, and stay on
TV for quite awhile just like the rest of us. I'm going to give them credit for being passionate about the show. Passionate enough to try and keep the fans happy. If you look back on the season they did try and keep all the shippers happy. Bo and Dyson had a couple of sexy scenes.
Doccubus had several moments that they can look back on and be happy about, and even the Valkubus shippers had a bone thrown their
way with Groundhog Fae episode #8. Btw episode 8 was my favorite
of the season. Not because of the fact that Tamsin got a little love from Bo, and she seemed really happy at that moment. No I loved that episode because it reminded me of something I had seen in seasons 1, 2 , and 3. Bo was having fun and it was really a fun episode. I liked Krampis as the big baddie of the week. Tamsin was adorable and happy and that made me happy. I thought the concept of " Yule" was really awesome. It didn't hurt that the whole gang was in that episode except for Vex and Evony, hell even Bruce got in on the action. I really do believe that episode 8 mirrored what we saw in the past seasons of LG.
It was light hearted and fun and it left me wanting to see more of that. Then of course disaster struck in episode 9 with the whole arrival of Rainer and the whole LG fandom shreiked in horror as he caused
Bo to stop being the old Bo, and that was where the end of the show
started. Ahhhh good times with episode 8 and disaster 2 weeks later. :(
Kiersten Hallie Krum
191. Kiersten
@Darkfaeder - Vex *was* in Groundhog Fae. He was in Bo's bedroom playing judge and jury to DL and Dyson's debate about Bo's box...
192. nypinta
My main problem with Ep9 was that Bo made the decision to go back on the train but didn't bother taking into account how it would effect everyone else and no one came up with any kind of plan to get her back once she did go. It shouldn't have been that hard. Instead she announces her choice and they freak out and that's pretty much it. Then she goes, whether they like it or not. So my not being particularly pleased with her started before she got back with Rainer. The sudden announcement he was her "destiny" was obviously a clue that something was amiss, but again she ignored everyone and locked herself away with her new bed buddy. With the exception of Dyson later telling her that if Rainer turned out to be a problem that he wasn't sure he could be there for Bo, they never really addressed her complete 180 on mantra of living the life she chooses and what not. It just sort of faded away after they took out the Una Mens or he was absent so he was ignored.

I just wanted to comment though on a lot of people mentioning giving Tamsin someone else. It's not just been on here. But so many people say if she can't be with Bo then bring on another character for her and they always specify it be a female. I don't understand why. The entire first season that Tamsin was on any comment she made about sex or physical attraction was towards men. She kissed Dyson, made cracks about some guy with 6 pack abs, etc. Every physical interaction between Bo and Tamsin in S3 was not mutual. It was either reluctant on both their parts, (Kenzi Scale), or the result of fae manipulation, (Fage'd Against the Machine.) It wasn't until this season and more than halfway through that Tamsin indicated any physical attraction to Bo. She's clearly indicated an attraction to Bo as a person, someone she learned to admire and respect, and she clearly wished to be a part of what Bo, Kenzi, and Dyson have as found family. There was a whole lot more there that Tamsin wanted then just Bo's booty. So the gender specificness intrigues me.

But I also seem comments about her and Dyson being out of the blue or left field and although I don't really care if they decide to pair them up as more than partners, their relationship has a natural progression. They started out wary of each other, even having to overcome inherent dislike due to their fae affiliations. But it went from dislike to mutual respect to both of them having each other's back unconditionally. Dyson spent months looking for Tamsin even before he remembered about Bo. He didn't judge her at all for her part in Bo's abduction or the creation of Rainer. She for her part went with Bo to save Dyson and had his back when she helped him cover for showing up on Bo's behalf against the zombiefae. They trust each other, and it's been earned. So them moving to a physical partnership doesn't feel so unnatural. Friends do sometimes suddenly see each other as more. But it hasn't been stated to be more than friends who trust each other finding comfort in one another. Which could also grow to be more. I, personally, have no issue with that from a story stand point. In fact I'd like to see that converstation next season, where either Dyson or Tamsin seeks definition of what they are doing. I think it could be a fantastic moment and a pairing, even temporary, that would be fun to watch. (More fun than other pairings.) She could be his "Ryan" and they might end their physical relationship but still be friends. They might fight like cats and dogs and hate each other for a while. Whatever. I would like to see that.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
193. Kiersten
@nypinta - I had the exact same thought re: Tamsin being talked about as being with another woman when all her interactions with the exception of some unwilling (as you noted and as I have sad many, many times before) kissy face with Bo, have been with men or male Fae. The only thing that has said Tamsin is bi-sexual is her character description when she was first announce as being part of the show. In the show itself, she has always skewed male for sexual partners. I also fail to understand why most women characters (exception Kenzi) who the show go both ways while every main and most recurring male characters are staunchly hetero. If the show is truly "no labels" and...wait, sorry, I can't finish that line because I'm laughing too hard at the idea of this show being "no labels" anymore. It caters to one fan base exclusively now at the expense of character, plot, and logic. Forgot for a moment. Moving on.

I also agree about the natural progression of Dyson and Tamsin's relationship. It's telling that the character with the most organic relationship arcs with *all* the other characters is Dyson. And that's true again with Tamsin, exactly as you described, and their relationship progression has been one of the few to be earned in every way - even sexual given that she aggressively kissed him in the first episode they meet

I wonder if they do continue to be sexual partners, if they'll address the whole Dark and Light don't fraternize" issue, though I can see that being a nonissue now within the group as part of Dyson telling Bo that labels don't define them in E6. If only EA and JF would remember that overall...
194. nypinta
I do wonder how the rest of the group will take their pairing. I think at first I can see both Tamsin and Dyson wanting to keep it to themselves. And that becoming an issue between them. But one I think they could get past. WHEN they get Kenzi back I think she'll be pleased..... and ohmygod she'd be like Dyson's mom in law! Hahahahahahahaha... oh show (in my head) that'd be awesome.

I would like if they had introduced either bi or gay men on the show. Vex seems open minded but he's mostly evil so that might not be the greatest choice for the show. But, and I hate to say it, there are some gaps in the cast that need to be filled. Non-het men could fit the bill. Maybe on the other side with Kenzi. Or the new Ash, if Trick doesn't keep the gig. Or bring back Val and make her Ash but she has a new enforcer or two. A new Light fae doctor perhaps. If Trick stays as Ash then someone has to run the bar. Plenty of choices.

They could have Tamsin and Dyson together for a short period of time and it runs it's course and then introduce a new female for her. Maybe Angel and her hit it off as soon as she appears. It happens like that too. ;) But I just don't like the idea that somehow Dyson isn't worthy of Tamsin or something. Or that Tamsin isn't good enough for him. (I've seen that too. But not nearly as much.) Or that pairing them up is some sort of consolation prize for the audience like a lifetime supply of turtle wax. They aren't turtle wax. They're compelling and stupid hot and RS and KHR play off each other very well.
195. JDKnight
I think that they are trying to see just how nasty, evil and corrupt they can make Lauren before her fans decide to abandon her.

What will Kenzi reappear as? Angel? Demon? Ghost? Vampire? Wereanimal? Valkyrie? Ghoul? or Zombie? One hing is for sure she will not be human. The only person out of the main good characters who has not died is Bo - Trick and Dyson were dead only briefly, Tamsin for about a month. Hale and Ciara appear dead permanently since not even their ghosts have re-emerged. Wonder if Kenzi will meet them and her dead enemies wherever she may be?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
196. Kiersten
They aren't turtle wax. They're compelling and stupid hot and RS and KHR play off each other very well.

Definitely not. Both of them would have chemistry with a plank of wood; that they rife off one another so well and have such a great time doing it is just casting gold.

Thing is, as that scene in Bo's bedroom proved, Dyson is 100% in it with Bo something she was all too pleased to hear. I've seen *way* too many people equate her not kissing him as meaning she doesn't love him. Kissing is the easy part. Also, that Dyson has somehow accepted his "place" as her "general" when Bo distinctly said "stand with me" which equates to "partner" and pre-Rainer said "I love you both" and to Levi "I will not choose." But I digress. My point is that *Tamsin* saw it all - Dyson's pledge. Bo's tears. She's known from the start that she shares both of them with each other (and, in a different way, with Kenzi) in whatever role she has in the Happy Sunshine Gang. "Our wolf." So any prospective ongoing sexual pairing with Dyson will always be shadowed by his stated feelings for Bo "forever". I think their hook up was played as a one-shot solace deal for them both for various reasons. Whether it's developed as more next season remains to be seen. But I loved the tenderness that was between them at the Gates to Valhalla. She's clearly one of his to protect now, like Kenzi, his partner and friend (especially now that Hale's gone) and he has as much an internal committment to her as he does for the rest of his "pack".

Which again reminds me how how much Doctor Lauren does not and never has fit with the rest of the group. Whenever she and Bo are together, their interactions are mostly always apart from everyone else; DL isolates Bo and makes her a worse friend/sister to Kenzi and friend/lover/partner to Dyson as S3 proved beyond a doubt. "Your doctor." because DL has no connection to anyone when Bo is not involved. She tolerates Kenzi and reluctantly bears with having to deal with Dyson's existence and flat out slugged Tamsin, so...her continued free pass with Bo endlessly baffles me, especially from a character who is so keen on everyone else being accountable to her for their actions.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
197. Kiersten
I think that they are trying to see just how nasty, evil and corrupt they can make Lauren before her fans decide to abandon her.
@JDKnight - oh, I wish. She is *vastly* more interesting a character the more corrupt she becomes. Oops. I mean *heroic* because spaybanging an evil Dark Fae in order to roofie her and rewrite her DNA to human before she can do more evil to your ex-girlfriend and then boasting about it is "heroic". Almost as "heroic" as harvesting the bone marrow of a powerful Fae (whose mistake it was to trust you) against his will in order to pretend to roofie an Evil Human into said powerful Fae only to instead rewrite his DNA to transform him into a less powerful Fae. Gol-ly how does she not have a sparkly Wonder Lauren cape?

What little I've seen has rewritten DL as the super sexy, super genius human in the midst of the evil amoral Fae who is on the cutting-edge of scientific discovery with glowing morals and ethics and does it all for love.

Oh, and in case you didn't see it, the necklace DL never gave to Bo is a version of the labrys charm that JF designed, replicas of which will be available to buy very soon. Proceeds will go to a charity chosen by the Lost Girl cast.

Here's what I found: "The Double Ax or Labrys was a popular religious or ceremonial symbol at Knossos, the ancient city in the Island of Crete. In our time, the labrys is a feminist symbol of strength and self-sufficiency." And from Wikipedia: "The labrys also has been used since the 1970s as a lesbian, feminist, and goddess movement symbol to represent women's strength and self-sufficiency."

JF basically redesigned it to resemble a labia. Because nothing says "I love you" like a vagina on your chest.
Susan White
198. whiskeywhite
Great discussion of Tamsin and Dyson @nypinta and Kiersten. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Tamsin and Dyson having some fun, affectionate and sexy time together. Yes, Dyson loves Bo and Tamsin knows it. But neither of them needs to be looking for love and flowers forever. They both need someone who puts them first and Bo could use a little taste of her own medicine.

I agree that the show is stauchly het as far as the men go. There have been a couple of gay men on the show, but only minor characters, such as Donnie, the fellow whose ballet dancer husband was grave robbed. And the two men who Bo counsels. They had a chance to have some man-on-man action for Dyson in "(Dis)Members" (remember the country club director with his hand on Dyson's shoulder?). But they avoided that like the plague. And I didn't see any naked guys chasing each other around the pool now that I think about it. (And BTW, the fact that I didn't think about it, it has just occurred to me, even though I've written about the Director and Dyson before, is an illustration of heteronormativity.)

What would be really great would be a major character who is dignified, important, gay, hot and sexually active. You had some good suggestions, @nypinta. Men who tune in primarily for the woman-woman sex might be (would likely be) disgusted, but who cares? (And just in case we think that doesn't happen -- a good friend told me just the other day that her husband stumbled over LG on the TV and was only interested in the woman/woman sex).
199. nypinta
I sometimes like to think that Lachlan wasn't influenced by Bo's succupower because he was gay, but they never really went into his personal life so... :/

As for Dyson's vow... that was one of those scenes that was played so that it can be expanded on in many different ways. A vow of love, fealty, loyalty, friendship, acceptance of a lesser place in her life, the hope for a greater one. It can go many ways & be interpreted in many ways. I didn't see it so much as him accepting a place as Bo's general as it was him offering his undying loyalty to her, even if it wasn't as her partner in all things. Tamsin did see, but I do think Tamsin loves Bo or she sees the loyaly Bo inspires and wishes she had that, and is slowly realizing that she does with the gang. But even if it is love for Bo, I think she doesn't have any illusions that she's in the running, as evidenced by her comments in Groundhog Fae. I do think that both Tamsin and Dyson consider their night together as a one off but I have a feeling it'll happen again, and again they'll dismiss it as a night of fun, until it happens too often for them to ignore that it's more for both. Because when Bo told Dyson she fed off Tamsin I read his reaction as one of both slight bemusement but also a touch of territorial, but towards Tamsin, not Bo. Now THAT would be an interesting twist, them having Dyson have to tell Bo to back off his woman. Ha.

@whiskeywhite Yeah, the more I think about it the more I think if they bring in a male gay character he should be one of power. Hot, but not grossly so, suave, together, confident, hot, oh did I say that already? ;) Maybe a fae elder that comes to town to try and clean up after the Una Mens were destroyed and the Light haven't yet put their house in order. He and Trick are in conflict but this man doesn't care Trick is the "blood king" because he only cares that the Light be able to protect themselves from whatever and that the "new colony" stay strong. Ooooo yeah. I like this guy.
200. drusilla_doll
I would love to see some more gay or bi male characters introduced in a positive way. To be honest, it's a black mark on the show that they've been so squeamish in this regard. Even Teen Wolf has male characters in blatant romantic/sexual encounters with each other as if it's just as normal as two women or a man and a woman. Get with it, show!

@Whiskeywhite: As much as I love Dybo and Tambo, I actually would root for Dyson and Tamsin having a relationship too, as long as it was fun, and allowed them both to feel like someone cared for them. They both deserve happiness rather than being seen as substitutes Bo reaches for only when WonderLauren isn't available. Basically if those two end up smiling and feeling better about themselves while knocking boots, that's okay by me.

@Kiersten: I think it's incredibly glaring how much Lauren doesn't fit with the Sunshine Gang. Tamsin fits so much better. Lauren never seems to be able to form genuine friendships and bonds with Bo's gang. It always feels forced and shoehorned in via offscreen events in dialogue rather than showing more bonding in an organic onscreen way. That's why I always roll my eyes when Kenzi or Dyson make these WTF statements about Lauren like they've actually found common ground when it's obvious the writers have never bothered to actually grow these relationships in a plausible/organic way. Kenzi teaching Lauren lockpicking and shadow-thieving off screen does NOTHING to convince me they could ever be true friends, even if they are both human. Dyson continually and inexplicably sings Lauren's praises and keeps acknowledging her GF status with Bo (despite the triple break up) and compliments her while in contrast Lauren uses every opportunity to heap scorn on and belittle his worthiness to earn Bo's love. It's annoying and frustrating and doesn't enamour me to Lauren in the slightest that she's the one keeping up the rivalry and pettiness.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
201. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll - yup, that's *exactly* it. Which is why the show slows to an anemic pace and becomes a yawn fest whenever its doccubus focus - the rest of the cast, the core dynamic of the show, is often excluded from whatever those two are doing then. Its also why it constantly feels like there are 2 separate shows going on: Over here is the actual Lost Girl with Bo and Dyson and Kenzi and Trick and Tamsin and Hale and over there is Lost Girl: The Doccubus Adventures with Doctor Mengle WonderLauren and Bo at her worst, a spinoff that basically subverts and denies or ignores anyone or anything that doesnt shore up its own fantasy. Now they even have to steal agency from Kenzi and undermine Dyson's character by turning him into a "doccubus is all" mouthpiece in order to keep the fallacy going while Doctor Lauren continues to take shots at them both. It's quite vexxing actually.
202. Saelath
@SuzyM @WhisketWhite @Darthfaeder @newgirl
Thanks for the warm welcome! Sorry if I missed anyone

@newgirl Yeah. I loved the lightness and playfulness between Dyson and Lauren which is why I wouldn't mind for that triangle to exist forever in essence. But I think Bo's only kidding herself when she tries to settle for love. I liked the idea of uniting with a common purpose, like with Rainer. However those two as a couple…I was not sold at all. Actually I liked her with Ryan the best. The freedom to be a sex chi eater.

@Darthfaeder I think Lauren redeemed herself for the most part. She hasn't been whiny all season. Her reasons have been flawed but I think Once she went fae, she was there to stay so she's just rationalizing BS.

To make sense of this season in my head, I just have to think Bo is going thru a rough patch; just a phase. The pressures of being the unaligned succubus have caught up. Accepting this destiny she has. I don't recall but it wasn't her who started the unaligned succubus. Yes, she chose to be unaligned but that ended up defining her to others. Not her name or her compassion but that girl who didn't play by the rules; a rebel. And it brought more and more attention to her and then people started coming to her with these ideas of her. She hears these things about her and she owns them.

I'm running out of time :/ I'll be back at some point. There's no internet where I'm going. lol
Carmen Pinzon
203. bungluna
Not to nitpick, but in this show, heterosexual males are a species in danger of extinction. We have Dyson and Trick and ? Kenzie was the only heterosexual female in the show.

It is usually a tenent that long-lived beings are more accommodating in their sexual habits. LG could have run with it but nooo...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
204. Kiersten
@bungluna - LG *did* run with season 1. Remember season 1 when there was a series bible and no labels and no slut shaming and the show was actually interesting and engaging and made sense from one moment to the next? Good times.
205. lonewolf
Hellooooo.....If you read my comment,121, you'll see that I suggested that Dyson and Tamsin get together. I just skimmed back down but I'm pretty sure someone said something about it not working because of their professional relationship. I say give it a whirl and see what happens. If it doesn't work then bring in someone for either one of them. Preferably Dyson, he's been used as a come here, come here, go way,go way by Bo long enough. There was one scene tho, when Bo, Dyson and Tamsin were at the cop shop and Dyson was the one to suggest they go *shopping* to which she replied, *if you are good you can go to all my stores* I am paraphrasing here but he also said something about maxing out her credit cards, twice. So while Bo was using him for sex most of the time he did make the first move, so to speak, that one time. Of course she did trick Dyson into babysitting Tamsin then. And while some of you, maybe the majority, will disagree, imho, Bo had Dyson Bo w'd right from 1x2 when he helped her heal after the doolihan sliced her on the throat. He may be a wolf but he's a wolf pup when it comes to Bo. I think that this season he may have started to get past that. And the best way for his working past her is to get together with Tamsin.

@Kiersten, I don't think the light and dark fratenizing business will be much of an issue. Unless of course Trick stays on as the ash. He's pretty much old school as far as that goes.

I had also made mention of Angel coming onto the scene, so she and Dyson could maybe get together. But someone said something about it not working because she was a shifter also and that he would look at her more as a sister. Well if that's the case then pair her up with Tamsin. But Dyson has to find someone, and why-not-Tamsin, to start. Hell, bring Angel in as the bartender if trick stays on as ash. Then D/T/ and Angel can have there own tryst.

@nypinta, if you are talking about when she opened the jar and huggin came out and took her, he didn't take her right to the train. He brought her to the cemetery first because he and his brother and there buddies could kill her to get back at their *boss* whoever that maybe or may have been. Dyson was getting his gun and Lauren showed up with her *science and smarts, and they went after her and found her at the cemetery. Of course they did still let her go and everything went to hel from there.* He's my destiny,* that line was a two socker that night. I realize it wasn't that episode but thinking about that destiny crap gets me going.

About this shadow thief comment by Lauren and how she made it sound like it was something Kenzi taught her during her training. Either the writers forgot about 4x3 when She and Crystal were being held and she picked the cuff locks then and mentioned Kenzi teaching her. Kenzi didn't need any shadow thief training for that, she already knew how to do that.

@nypinta, you dare look at Tamsin as Dyson's ryan? That guy was just a pretentious, and in Kenzi's own words * a goofy haired seven year old boy. Smart yes, but to compare Tamsin to Ryan? Come on, don't insult Tamsin.

@Kiersten and @nypinta, a gay or bi-sexual guy? Ewwwww, just kidding. Why not I guess, why not vex, he's in england right now, is he not. Maybe he can come back with a lover, he's not the evil vex that he used to be. Hey vex's lover can be the bartender even.

If Dyson and Tamsin were to get together, I don't think Kenzi would have a problem with it. She is or was Tamsin's bff and on team Dyson,so as long as she comes back to us with some of the old Kenzi in her she may not mind it at all.

@JDKnight, if Kenzi comes back with any kind of fae power I hope it has something to do with her eyes in some manner. I always thought right from S1E1 that she should be fae just for that reason.
206. stacymd2
@Kiersten: I learn something new every day! I swear, I thought the pendant was of a lobster. Marie's statue on the 605 episode of Everybody loves Raymond looked more like a vajayjay than Lauren's pendant.

Let's hope Rainer left a "freedom to love on a train" penis bracelet in Bo's footlocker.

As much as I adore EV, her character has been wholly ruined by Wonder-Doctor Moreau Lewis. It would be cool if the new Morrigan was a strong, badass gay/bi Fae male, who hooks up with Vex and flirts with Trick. If TPTB did it in a nonjudgemental and non-gay panic way, it would be exciting. LGBTQ characters can be shown as villains as well as heroes. Lost Girl dosn't need another boring Mary Sue.

@JDKnight: Lauren's actions will be whitewashed & retconned in S5. The writers did it in S4. They had Kenzi say that Lauren saved them and the Fae from Dr. Taft. EA implied that Lauren saved everyone in one of her post show interviews. Super-Scientist-Wonder Lauren, M.D. is the actual ethical, scary smart, badass seductress hero of Lost Girl who can do anything and no wrong. She is the true love of Bo's life. Dyson has said so many times. The only way to enjoy Lost Girl is to accept this.

@Dursilla_Doll: It is past time for Dyson to have a love interest. Dyson hasn't had a love interest since Season 2. It would be nice if it was Tamsin since the audience already knows her. D/Ta could be fun and sexy if the writers make it so. I'd bet my house, however, that TPTB will make D/Ta all about Bo & make D/Ta's relationship seem less than the epic "depth" of Doccubus.

I wish to learn more about shifters. Bitten's wolf world is so fascinating. I would love it if TPTB brought on a fierce female wolf shifter for Dyson to get under. It'll never happen and if the writers did delve into shifters it will focus on Bo and Doccubus. The one storyline about Dyson's past this season was all about Bo, Wonder Lauren and parallels to Doccubus.

Season Five Spec:
Bo finding a way to bring Kenzi back.
Doccubus sex.
Bo brings Kenzi back.
Doccubus angst.
Kenzi adjusts to being brought back from the dead.
More Doccubus angst.
Lauren's brother and backstory.
Doccubus sex.
Winks to B/D, B/Ta & B/K.
Doccubus angst.
Big Bad intro.
Bo saves Badass-Damsel Lauren.
Big Bad defeated with intro to Season 6's storyline.
Somewhere in there Trick will exposition, Vex will snark, Bruce will be cute & Dyson will say, "Bo loves Lauren. Lauren is a genius. Bo has a girlfiend."

@whiskeywhite: I know a lot of straight men who watched the L Word to see the f/f sex scenes. To be fair, they all eventually got into the show (but pretended not to be "that interested") and talked to me about the relationships. (but not in a "that interested" way, of course.)
It's like my friend's husband who says he only watches General Hospital because "the wife" has it on, but he knows more about the plots and characters than we do.
207. nypinta
@lonewolf Whoa whoa whoa, back off the Loki! ;) Ryan rocked. He's the Tony Stark of the freakin' fae! Sure he had some issues with using humans and all, but hey Tamsin wasn't all sunshine and puppies when she first showed up. Unlike Ryan, she had a chance to learn and grow. He, uh, didn't. But boy was he fun. And pretty much perfect for Bo. Except for that pesky attitude towards humans. (Which I'm sure Kenzi would have cured him of eventually.) But I meant the Ryan comparison only because Tamsin was a late comer to the show just as he was an not an original character, nothing really to do with personality or anything.

As for Bo getting on the train, I realize that she was taken by the crows someplace else first, but she didn't know that was going to happen. She just popped the top and hoped for the best while the rest had only two choices: to either let her or be angry that she was going anyhow. I meant that they didn't come up with a plan in terms of at least talking over what could happen or look into fae tracking thingy mabobs. Lauren has access to everything the Dark has. Trick knows about all sorts of fae objects of power and use and was acting Ash at the time. Both of them could have at least been given the option of looking for things. But she doesn't do that. She just decides and jumps. The fact she was able to outwit the crows, then outwit Levi, and was lucky enough that Dyson and Lauren showed up when they did was too much in my opinion of coincidence and luck. And highlighted her impulsiveness and selfishness precisely because her leaping effects her friends as well as her. It was the lack of consideration that bothered me more than anything.
208. lonewolf
@stacymd2, I liked the show because of the basic plot, I will admit tho that the ff scenes were ok to see. But it was the plot that got me. As for this gay, bi-sexual business, it caught me off guard when I watched the first episode of OB and there was a gay guy on it. I can accept it, and LG should consider bringing someone on the show that is gay. Vex can come back from england with a lover. For someone that is hetero it doesn't bother me any. If it bothers any other guy then they just have a problem with accepting what goes on in the real world. Actually, probably seeing it on a tv show would most likely turn them off even more because it's right there in front of them whenever they watch a show with gays, or bi-sexual men on it. I could tell you a story about an experience when I was 15 that closed my mind to the concept of two men together as lovers. But over time I've come to accept people for who they are, not what they are. Unless they are complete, outright assholes. Then it doesn't matter what their preference is.
209. lonewolf
One quick, silly question. What does retcon mean, I figured out the other, what I call cryptics, but not that one.

@nypinta, I guess you could compare Tony Stark to Ryan. I'll grant you that much.;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
210. Kiersten
Ryan rocked for sure. He was a much needed breath of fresh air, called Bo on her shit, and was *fun*. Fae Tony Stark indeed. I would *love* it if he came back, but it'll never happen since he's man and they're an endangered species on this show enough as it is.

Funny enough, Anthony Lemke, who played Ryan, has revived his role on the show, The Listener, on which Kris Holden-Ried has a recurring role as Adam, husband of one of the lead characters.

Slumber parties, I'm tellin' ya.
211. stacymd2
@Lonewolf: Retcon = Retroactive Continuity. It is often used to serve a new plot by changing its context; however, it's also done when the creators are caught writing a story that violates continuity and isn't very plausible.

"Reframing past events to serve a current plot need. The ideal retcon clarifies a question alluded to without adding excessive new questions. In it's most basic form, this is any plot point that was not intended from the beginning."

Retcon came from the comic book world where it is used a lot by writers.
212. lonewolf
@stacymd2, thanks, it'll help me understand more of what is being discussed here.

For all you guys, I mean girls, how about a mix of both ryan and rainer, who's 99.999% straight but once in a great while takes a walk on the wild side.
213. stacymd2
I have the biggest rant brewing about 413 being anti-feminist in many ways, but I have to save something for next week.

Final thought. One of the things I disliked about Season 4 is how it turned Bo into more of a Mary Sue. Bo has always been a sexual Mary Sue. Dyson, Kenzi & Trick are there to full fill her emotional needs and guide her through her mommy, daddy and Fae issues. It's been that way from Season one. Season four amped it up by 10.

Bo faces no consequences for her behavior & her actions are framed as the right thing to do.

Bo kills the Una Mens. It's OK, they were evil and no one liked them anyway.

She gets angry with Kenzi for kissing Dyson, but it turns out she has been shacking up with her destiny on a train. Dyson/Kenzi don't mention the hypocrisy.

Bo has ignored Kenzi since Season three, leading up to Season four and the split. Tamsin tells Kenzi to get over it, Bo is hurting, make up with her. Kenzi doesn't hesitate to do so, giving Bo her sword.

Circumstances led Bo to choose Dark Fae. No biggie. In 413 the contract is torn up. The writers don't have Bo stick to her decision of Dark Fae despite making a point this season of having B/D not care about Fae tribal sides.

Rainer is Bo's destiny. She marries him. Don't worry, TPTB kill Rainer off. The writers don't have Bo stick to a romantic choice she's made. (She never has, picking between D & L is emotionally crippling for her. D & L feel that they are letting Bo down.) No matter how you feel about RainBo, he did sacrifice his life for Bo, just like Kenzi did & Dyson did in S3. Trick sacrificed his daughter again to protect Bo in Season 1.

Bo is not only THE sole unaligned succubus (and Fae?), she is also prophesied to be THE One, THE Queen, THE Queen Bee. She is such a Mary Sue, the writers even don't bother to explain what being THE One/Queen/Bee means. Or, why Bo? What does THE One/Queen/Bee do? What/Where is Bo THE Queen Bee of?

Bo hasn't done anything to earn THE Whatever title. It is given to her via prophesy, her horse daddy, her granddaddy and her biology.

When Kenzi is returned to the land of the living, I hope she is a valkyrie. TPTB can do a condensed Kenzi version of KidTamsin to AdultTamsin.
Susan White
214. whiskeywhite
Oh no, Kiersten, is Anthony Lemke really coming back to The Listerner?! I don't begrudge the man the work but the role he played was so BORING. It amazed me when I later saw him on LG -- he was so funny and sexy. I saw him in an entirely new light. I sure hope they give him something more interesting to do/be.

Yah, @stacymd2, I'm with you. I proposed some time ago that they bring in a female wolf shifter for Dyson. They could play in the woods together (hee). It makes me reflect that Dyson is virtually always angry or stressed out when he wolfs out. He's either fighting off an attacker or angsting, like when he repeatedly stayed out all night hunting after losing his love for Bo. He's never just having fun, unless you count the fun of chasing down and munching cabbit-Taft. Can't you just see him running across a sun lit field carrying his shoes in his hand, wagging his tail and scampering with Lady Wolf?
Suzanne Metaxas
215. SuzyM
Yes I have pictured Dyson with a female shifter :) and in my imagination it is a damn hot scene ;) After all two wolves making love in the forest has to be animalistic and quite satisfying :) Just saying (giggling)
Carmen Pinzon
217. bungluna
@Stacymd2 - it's like you have the writers' playbook in your hand! Oh, wait, EA doesn't believe in any type of book. Ok, it's like you have the writers' assinine plan figured out.
218. JDKnight
stacymd2 Kenzi as baby valkyrie would be soo cool - Tamsin now the mom - brilliant ;o)
219. stacymd2
@SuzyM & @WhiskeyWhit: Me likey your train of thought.

Ok...Bo, Kenzi, Tamsin & Dyson are working a Fae case of the week. Trick introduces The Happy Sunshine Gang to a no nonsense Female Wolf Shifter Cop (FWSC) from another district. She is here because the case may involve a Fae Elder who has gone missing.

Bo & Kenzi go off to question a suspicious Light Fae dog catcher while Tamsin sneaks into the missing Fae Elder's hamburger franchise.

Clues lead Dyson and no nonsense FWSC (who is a red head because I say so) to an enchanted forest. They wolf out to sniff for evidence. The sniffing turns to frolicking. The frolicking turns to nipping at each other's tails. They chase each other. Dyson pins her. She shifts into human form. Dyson hesitates then shifts into human form as well. They are on top of each other, breathing hard. No nonsense FWSC grabs the back of Dyson's head, pulling him into a rough kiss. He jerks away and growls. She had bitten him. They kiss again, rolling around on the forest floor. Pine needles get caught in her red hair as they roll. Thrusting. Growling. Thrusting. Rolling. Thrusting. A breeze gusts through the trees, raining leaves down on their tangled, dirt stained bodies.

Oh, wait. This is a PG recap. My apologies.

To make a long, hot story short, the missing Elder Fae was killed by her cousin who wanted her burger franchise. No nonsense Female Wolf Shifter Cop takes the cousin back to her district for trial. Kenzi decides to give up pickles. Tamsin won free burgers for life. Dyson promises to visit no nonsense FWSC in the future. Bo breaks up with Wonder Lauren because she is a liar.
Susan White
221. whiskeywhite
@stacymd2. Marvelous! A laugh out loud award for you tonight. As you know, if this were Bitten they would be naked as soon as they shift back to human form. And there would be many naked bum shots.
222. JDKnight
Tereza MALIKOVA, 22 (13 Jul 1991) Czech Republic tennis player - maybe this young lady is the reason they used the masculine version of Kenzi's surname on her gravestone? Or there is the pianist, Anna, fom Uzbecistan, who graduated in 1991. Ekaterina Malikova was in DayWatch, Night Watch and Dawn Watch (the last for some reason never dubbed / subtitled into English). We also have the popsinger Inna Malikova, the stage director,Olga, and the scientists Natalie and Lyudmila and the writer, Maeia Potzi-Malikova. Idon't think any of these people would have minded her joining the 'Malikovas'. Also why wasn't her middle name there? it is an important part of her identitity - daughter of - and Russians often refer to each other by their patronymic, eg Maria Nikolaevna Romanova, the third daughter of Nikolae II of Russia, would often be referred to by her first 2 names, just as he would be referred to as Nikolay Alexandrovich. This might be overly picky but there are people with Slavic names in the LG production team so there is no excuse for such sloppiness.

Incidently, why did Bo say that the tarot card burst into flames when Kenzi touched it hen it did so when Tamsin did?
223. Melonnabanana
I am very late to the party as I just watched the episode this morning. I missed the episode before this but I called Evony being Massimo's mom ages ago so that reveal was awesome to me! This was a hard episode to watch but the show runners have been blatantly obvious, behind trying to play coy, that Kenzi will be back. I really hope she comes back as a Valkyrie. That would be amazing I've come to look forward to Kenzin moments as much as I do Bozi moments. It'd be interesting to see Kenzi come back in a new role but I feel it's Change the dynamic with Bo. But at this point the show could definitely use a new format. Wonder if Kenzi is in Valhalla or Folkvangr. Sidenote...what if Kenzi came back as a norn. Hear me out, norns in Norse mythology, just like the Greek Fates, effect destiny. Kenzi has played a huge role in destiny so far especially now sacrificing herself for Bo.

This may not be a popular thought but I love the idea of Dyson and Tamsin together. He deserves his happy and I think he's too good for Bo. Better than Lauren but he doesn't deserve what Bo does to him. Tamsin has is back in the battlefield and could definitely have is back in love.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
225. Kiersten
@whiskeywhite @staceymd2 actually, Dyson has allued to wolfing out for fun or for just giving time to his season one. In the beginning of (Dis)Members, he's mapping out a wolfed out weekend with Hale to avoide the hunters when Bo decides they should have a romantic one instead. A fun, adorable scene I might add. He also says to Tamsin in the loathed season three that he's been neglecting his wolf. So the precedent is there for something more with Dyson's wolf than battle. If only Lost Girl hadnt descendent into the lost cause it is now.
226. Bore-mudaTriangle
A part of me likes the idea of Dyson and Tamsin. Only because they both don't deserve *this* Bo and why wait around until she and Lauren have a falling out to be used? I think it would be fine if they were mess around buddies, but if they do develop feelings I hope it's seen on screen. While some say their progression has been natural (I agree, to a point) they were hesitant of each other, evolved into respect/professional working together, buddies, then they share a kiss at the end of 4x11. I just don't hope they say that Tamsin has been feeling that way about him for awhile because there isn't enough evidence at all to say she's ever felt more for him than close friends, and if they come back, say a year after Kenzi's death, I hope it's not like, "we've been seeing each other and I love him." or something. I'd rather see it grow on screen because it makes the relationship disliked more when we don't get to see it grow. We aren't really "attached" to their relationship. But as many of you mention, Dyson does love Bo and Tamsin knows this. So either she's planning on going in one-sided again (like with Bo) or she just wants a little fun, distraction, no-strings attached relationship. Which I'm not totally against.

The other part of me dislikes them together because I saw Dyson as like.. her brother. Even EA says in an interview that Dyson has become a big brother figure to "these girls." It was in a question about the Tamsin/Dyson talk about "What is love?" in the cop shop. Also, I just don't want their bromance to be ruined. :(

I'm a Tamsin/Bo fan but I'd rather see Dyson/Bo than Doccubus for another season. I sort of want EA to be replaced because it's obvious that she's bias to Doccubus. Either way, I highly doubt that this will be the final relationship change for Bo or anyone. Say Dyson and Tamsin are together, with this show, no relationship lasts a season lol. Kenzi and Hale? One died..then the other died. We all know how many back and forths Lauren and Bo and Dyson and Bo have had. Ryan and Bo? Ended, Ryan left. Dyson and Ciara? She died. Stella and Trick? They just had a little fling. I'm just saying, how all the Doccubus fans are so happy, "they're back together!" what's to say it'll even make it past the first episode in season 5? Or that Tamsin/Dyson will last half of the season? It's extremely rare on this show to get a long lasting relationship, especially the first try.

I hope Kenzi comes back some type of Fae. I'd rather it be a different type that we don't know about, than one of the other characters power. Though I do like the Valkyrie idea with Tamsin being the mommy. I've said it before, I'll say it again, I hope that Lauren becomes a "big bad" next season. I know it's very doubtful, but they have her going in that direction to me. What could this serum possibly be used for other than, well, going around turning Fae human? Or turning Bo human, but I don't think Bo would choose than willingly. One of the Sunshine Gang turning their back on them, causing the whole Fae world to errupt in chaos. But knowing this show, it'd turn into a Doccubus moment in the end. :l
Kiersten Hallie Krum
227. Kiersten
@Boremuda Triangle I have been advocating for Doctor Lauren to go all evil and be the Big Bad since the end of S3. Her henious actions against human and Fae and her ever changing moral/ethical line (what little she has left) plus the major ax she has to grind againt the Fae, seemed to be the perfect set up for a truly interesting, conflicting season of her being the one Bo and the others have to deal with. How fascinating to see the love and the duty conflict as DL descends into her own ego as the super genius doctor who now has the ability to turn human to Fae AND to turn Fae into humans. What if Bo did become Fae Queen, a combined Ash/Morrigan who ruled over both sides (this would only be in Faeronto tho as the wider Fae world has all the elder rule that has to be answered to) and then Doctor Lauren rose up as the super genius mad scientist against the Fae and now Bo has to defeat/kill the woman she loves? What if the doc turned herself into a hybrid Fae (much like Massimo and The Una Mens seed) with horrible consequences but that makes her so powerful even Dyson has trouble containing/defeating her. She kidnaps a by now returned Kenzi and experiments on her. Tamsin comes to rescue Kenzi and DL kills her before Kenzi's eyes. (Sorry, it's the final season; people are going to die. Stakes have to be raised). Dyson loses it and goes after DL. There is an epic battle between them and DL takes the gloves off and is her true bitchy self without qualification. She wields all her low verbal blows against Dyson in one place once and for all and for once Dyson shoots back! They fight and Dyson gets injured when he thinks she's down and doesnt take the killing blow out of love for Bo and a lingering affection for whom Doctor Lauren once was. Naturally, DL is faking (as usual) and takes the opportunity to (this time, literally) stab Dyson in the back. Enraged to see her wolf go down, Bo attacks and they have an epic brawl where, in the end, an injured DL begs Bo to chi suck her to death as she can't stand the monster she's become and wants to die in Bo's arms. Devastated, Bo nevertheless does as she asks. That is a season I would definitely watch - provided it wasn't all turned around at the end that she was actually doing it for heroic, self-sacrificing reasons so that she and Bo could rule human and Fae forever. Which it would be.
228. Bore-mudaTriangle
@Kiersten Ahh! I'd watch that. They always have evil, so why not make it a little more interesting and turn one of the gang evil? It'd be more conflicted as you said. They love/care for them, yet they are out there causing so much chaos that they need to be stopped. Rather than: they are evil, I don't care about them, let's kill them.

Tamsin dying though?! :( I agree that some of them will probably die since it is most likely their final season. Lauren is the only one (besides Bo) who hasn't died yet. B)
229. Ffs
Hi all, first time here on this forum though I have read a few season 4 discussions. I just caught up with the finale, and all I can say is that it reiterates my belief that Bo is stupid. (you can find the rant here: )
I'm really mad at the show for pretending that the shitty way Kenzi was treated throughout the show has been somehow made up for by the finale? So not the case. In fact I think there's a scene (there's several such scenes throughout the show) in this episode where Bo talks about all the people she's failed AND GUESS WHO SHE FAILS TO MENTION? KENZI. Like I can't even. Kenzi is the only reason I watch this show. Her storyline is the only one that matters to me. And honestly I don't wanna stick around season 5 if all of it is going to be about bringing her back but not showing her. I'm also sick of the way we're told Bo is THE ONE again and again, but it's never shown to us why. Fundamental writing rule: show, don't tell. Bo's constant jumping in head first, making bad decisions, acting like she's the shit, discarding everybody unless she's particularly feeling emo about them at the moment just proves she is not worth the pedestal she was put on.
I guess I will sift through season 5, but ugh. So not looking forward to it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
230. Kiersten
Hi @Ffs! Glad you've decided to join us here.
Fundamental writing rule: show, don't tell.

Yes, absolutely, and this is a fundamental problem with Lost Girl these last two seasons. There is much too much the audience is told rather than shown and then we're expected to invest in the result when we haven't been organically led to it by watching it play out on screen and so we wind up not caring at all. Plus, too many critical moments happen off screen and its assumed the audience knows this, they're rarely even referred to but the consequence/result plays out on screen leaving the audience to wonder (and argue) over how the hell we got there. That allows things to remain in some way ambiguous and keeps the show from having to commit to saying "this is how it happen" by playing it out on screen. Rather they can (and do) say "it couldnt be that, sure" which only makes for a weak, untrustworthy show.
Susan White
231. whiskeywhite
Awesome season plan, Kiersten. Welcome @Ffs. Stick with us!

I reiterate my plan, with a new detail. We kidnap the existing writers and bury them in the woods outside Toronto (that would actually have to be quite far from Toronto). Or they could be exiled to live with the zombies in Sudbury, where KHR's move "The Returned" was filmed. (That's really far from Toronto). Then we replace them with our folks. A magically better series appears.
232. nypinta
I think it would be funny if Bo gives DL a sample of her blood because the horse lady said Bo's blood could kill her father and DL uses it to create a human making serum for him and that's how they get rid of him. Though I still suspect that he hitched a ride into Valhalla via Rainer and they'll reuse Kyle Schmid to play her father. Because why not go for completely confusing? ;) And maybe when Kenzi comes back, some 'heroes' will have hitched a ride back to the real world with her and she sets them free and now has an army of fae heroes and warriors that will have her back. Yay.

I agree that if they do develope anything between Dyson and Tamsin it better be on screen, not over the time between the end of S4 and S5, because it will feel like a cheat and it won't do anything to soothe those that already feel it's a sudden turn in plot just to remove Tamsin as an option for Bo. But whether it lasts or not, is just for fun or not, I want to see it play out. Not be told how awesome a couple they are after the fact or have it all go pear shaped and they're barely speaking by the beginning of next season.

I was thinking about the shadow thief comment by Lauren with Massimo and I can't help but wonder if on the first pass Kenzi did go with Bo but they couldn't make it work, so that was left in like a placeholder for where Kenzi was originally in the story. But the way they wrote it, it just felt a bit like when kids are playing pretend and someone comes up with an obstacle like, "the troll has a sword!" and the other kids suddenly says, "I stole it when the troll was tying his shoe!" and suddenly they have a completely made up on the spot upper hand. But Kenzi didn't even get to use her shadow thief skills in battle or anything. There has to be more to it then undie snatching or your basic pick pocketing, because she already knows how to do that. Yet all that Lauren did after her comment was also steal the twig, which I think was the real reason they had her mention learning from Kenzi so we're supposed to believe she used the skill against him (which, again, should have been Kenzi).

I liked what they tried to do with this season, telling one story, and using memory and how having them or not having them affects a person's personality. But it does feel like they changed course in the last few episodes in a way that I think wasn't as planned out as I was hoping. I think maybe Rainer not ending up some ultimate baddie was a last minute decision. And I think the reforming of DL/Bo as a couple was also last minute. Because that coupling (this time) feels more out of left field than Tamsin and Dyson.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
233. Kiersten
For those of you not on Twitter, here's a lovely interview and photo shoot with Ksenia Solo in Cliche Magazine
Suzanne Metaxas
234. SuzyM
I still think Bo's father is Odin and that he will be played by Donal Logue not Kyle. I liked S4 at the beginning but by the end it was a awful mess :(

If anyone wishes to read my fan fiction I wrote they can find it in the newsletter at just signup and you can access all the newsletters right from the beginning. Joining & Newsletter are free :)
Carmen Pinzon
235. bungluna
Oh no! @Kiersten, it sound like KS is not coming back to LG or else there will be no more LG.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
236. Kiersten
No, I think she meant when LG wrapped for the season. She reportedly had trouble juggling other projects with the extended S2. I dont think she was talking about the show being over but rather the season.
237. Bore-mudaTriangle
For any of you who liked/saw the TV show Heroes, it was announced that the show is coming back in 2015 for a "miniseries" consisting of 13 episodes.
Suzanne Metaxas
239. SuzyM
@Kiersten Brian Henson recently passed away :( I wonder if that will impact the making of the movie. I loved Farscape!
240. JDKnight
Farscape was brilliant. Series ended far too soon. Books and comics seem to have finished too :o( Why do so many good series finish before their time - 4400; Farscape; Lexx; Sarah Connor Chronicles; Invasion, etc, etc whist some terrible shows go on and on?
241. nypinta
@SuzyM It was John Henson, Jim Henson's other son that passed away.

I'm giddy for more FarScape. That show was the reason I got involved in online fandoms. It's the only show I actively participated in its "save our show" efforts. Good times. The board where all of us posted on is gone, however. Ah well.
Suzanne Metaxas
242. SuzyM
@nypinta :) thank you for the correction Maybe I will be happy then and the movie will be made!
C. H.
243. SmurfFae
Banzai for FARSCAPE!

And Hooray for Heroes, a series with a great first season, that startet to decline because the writers were catering too much to fans. Now what does this remind me off? ;)
C. H.
244. SmurfFae
All in all I liked this season more than the last. You've got to give credit, that the writers used the detriment of an absent/handicapped protagonist and managed a (what I consider) strong start in the season by focusing more on other actors.
Other strong points:
-Interesting / Ambitous plotlines: A mysterious memory loss-story arc whose consecutive resolution was linked to certain episodes (and events within these episodes) and to which the answer was (what I considered) intricate and logical
-Quirky, whimsical fae-characters that (I think) were missing in season 3, but were an integral part of what made season1+2 so successful
-Lots and lots of backstory on beloved characters. And DL.
-Interesting character interactions through new pairings

Weak points:
-Plot vs. Character: to drive the plot forward characters act stupid / OOC
-Inconsistencies of character backstory: This was discussed so much, you wanna respond to the writers with their own words: "Get your story straight." "What story?" "Your life story!" (4x05)
-Plots that start strong but go nowhere: Shadow Thief-training! Lauren is self-sufficient! Rainer (who is that guy?)!
-Triangle of boredom: The basic ingredient necessary for a
TV-triangle-relationship is:
Characters don't resolve their seperate relationships through a lack of communication.
People don't talk, everything is in a grey area, there's no closure. But lack of communication can make your characters look mute, deaf & dumb.
But LG brings the concept of characters-who-don't-communicate to new heights. Great job writers!
I guess the reason is pretty obvious: TPTB don't want to displease any ship, so every possible relationship gets thrown on the screen and if it doesn't stick - who cares? Throw it again. But try to avoid anything definit. Rather: Try to paint anything as ambigious as possible.
The fans are soooo smart! They can totally interpret everything into anything!
The problem: Characters loose their cohesiveness / internal logic and become charicatures

Well, the weak points all seem related.
C. H.
245. SmurfFae
@stacymd2: Concerning your predictions for season 5 (post 206), I think you're pretty spot on. But you've missed two central topics for season 5:

-The characters reminisce about that one time DL defeated Aife.
-The characters reminisce about that one time DL defeated the Garuda.

I don't think she's given enough credits for her former exploits.
246. newgirl
About Lauren/Bo, i only think Bo does not let herself loose with Lauren from the moment she knew she had a longer life (been fae and all), that's why she kind of try to "respect" that relationship, as seen Lauren vulnerable and all that, i don't know as something ephemeral and "you must enjoy it, in it most pure way, while it last, because is coming to an end", but Kiersten is so right, lauren isolates Bo even from Kenzi (though the girl is tough and she stays and even shows the way out to lauren sometimes lol), lauren is like an island in the series, all by herself, and she never seem to cope with the others, even when they have try, though i still loved when D and she try to sit next to bo in ch8. But really i hope d/t comes to happen they deserve it, most of all Dyson, you know tamsin been newborn an all, kind of have a new life ahead of her, which i hope is really a long one (please Kiersten kill someone else, besides Big Bad Lauren, in your season finale T.T) and a very close to the "BadAss Team" (OMG i miss those times!!!!) About Kenz coming back as a fae, i don't know how i feel yet, in a way "Great!! No premature old age death for kenz!" (comparing to Dyson and Bo, old age death would be premature XD) but in the other way we have Bo claimed to protect human because of her and kind of loose it touch... but hey ain't everything lately being like that?, crap... so maybe Kenz will return as a fae of some sort, hope not, only thing i wish for her to return with, is to have the same longevity as fae people.
By the way checking chinvat, is from ancient Iranian religion, definition given by wiki:
is the sifting bridge which separates the world of the living from the world of the dead. All souls must cross the bridge upon death
And Pirippus is ancient Greece, and Hel/Valhalla norse myth, Epona is a celtic Goddess of the Horses, Helskor norse myth again, Levi is Old Testament's monster, Irkalla is Babylonian myth, Wanderer yet to decide if it is Odin or using the Anglo-saxon poem "The Wanderer", wich kind of remind me Rainer's exile, though with no king unless it is yet to be shown (the poem remind me Bo's definition of Rainer after his death as "a good man, who made a terrible mistake", i mean taking Rainer as a simple man, no seconds thoughts, no horns no fangs just a plain warrior in his cruzade), so that one still not found, soooo that's pretty much with what we were left this final season, let's see what other mythology they will bring up, by now there must be almost 20 different kinds of underworld, are they going to go through each one or they are going with "there's only one but we called it different ways in the other countries" explanation.
By the way... now that she was mentioned, what did Trick ment with "She was wounded... at my hand.", did he killed Aife?
247. Darthfaeder
@Nypinta per post #199 When you said that Dyson perhaps was being territorial towards Tamsin as far as Bo feeding off her. You said that the time could come when Dyson could tell Bo to back off his women? I have a feeling that first off Tamsin will be nobody's women, and if Tamsin did get into a relationship with Dyson, ( I hope Not!) but if he did Tamsin would drop Dyson in a second to be with Bo, and he'll get hurt again. I don't think he even realizes that Tamsin is in love with

As far as why some here are curious as to why others would want Tamsin in a relationship with a women and not a man. Well that is
easy it's because Tamsin has not as of yet expressed any desire to
be in a romantic type of relationship with a man. She is emotionally
and romantically attached to Bo not a man. As far as a male goes
Tamsin has used them purely for sex and not for romance. It is a very
typical thing amounst Bisexuals. I think I read somewhere that studies show bisexuals may be attracted to both sexes , but tend to use one sex purely for sexual reasons, and the other sex for emotional reasons. Case in point Angelina Jolie is a bisexual. She's never had a serious relationship with a women. She has only had sexual relationships with them. When it comes to men she has been married twice both times to men. Her preference looks to be emotional and romantically ties with men, and sexual ties to women. The same goes for Tamsin so far but in reverse.
248. stacymd2
@newgirl: I think Trick wounded her to protect himself after Aife attached him with the knife. It is implied that she got away or at least isn't a current threat. I really don't think he killed her.

@SmurfFae: Wonder Lauren, M.D. isn't given due respect by anyone. Even though Dr. Taft, Massimo, Evony, Hale, Bo, Dyson & Kenzi have all stated this season and last how brilliant and/or beautiful Wonder Lauren is, it is not enough. Wonder Lauren saves everyone all the time. Her amazing super science is is greater than any Fae power. If you look up ethics, quite dignity or the Hippocratic oath, Wonder Lauren's picture and lifestory is used as an example. She knows more about Fae biology, history and magic than they do. Lauren is badass, scary smart and wonderful in everyway. Lauren is...the most interesting being on Earth.
249. newgirl
And searching on the Farscape sequel theme, it seems it's going to be a sort of spin-off the info can be read here, i hope the original cast is there, or at least those who remained at the end of PeaceKeepers Wars, Aeryn (of course), John (super-of course), Rygel, though Jonathan Hardy died on 2012, Chiana and Jothee I suppose, maybe even Stark, let's see how long it takes to have it on the screen.
250. newgirl
@stacymd2, about Aife comment, neither do I, but she hasn't been mentioned at all in the whole season, maybe in the end of s5 we found her again imprisioned by some mad Big Bad, or maybe if he killed her we found her in the netherworld or whatever Bo is going to save Kenz from.
Nadine Robb
251. cmm
@stacymd2 The doccubus relationship aside, that's what I find the most insulting about Lauren. She knows eeeeverrrything! It's why the show is so flawed to me. You can't have a human be that powerful in a world full of supernatural beings, it just doesn't work. I can see her creating a cure for the fae like she did in the begining and her knowing a lot about thir ailments. But genetically altering them on a deep cell level, nope. They should of just left her at being the local GP, that way she could of gone on adventures with the gang and being useful to help the sick along the way.
252. newgirl
@cmm, yes as a good healer in a World of Warcraft party, lol.
But serious, on what she based the study? Taft's? I don't know but fae-ism must be, or rather should be, something on Fae-DNA and there she goes supresing it in what... a matter of weeks, way to go!! She should work for humans, she could be quite famous by now and not in a wanted dark fae-post, is a ludricous statement that she came with that solution in so short time.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
253. Kiersten
@newgirl - according to tweets from Andras post finale, we shouldnt expect realistic/believable medical stuff on a show that also features things like mermaids. Although she did also promise to check with Johns Hopkins next time if we're that concerned about there's that.
Suzanne Metaxas
254. SuzyM
I am so done with Doccubus. I find the whole relationship unappealing and the show is insisting of forcing it down our throats. I will start to watch S5 if it happens. If things stay as they are now I will be moving on. I will stop in here and read the recaps and the discussions but I will be done with the show. It breaks my heart that TPTB have totally destroyed the show I loved and followed for so long. I truly feel like I watched a close friends sicken and die a horrible death caused by those who were supposed to be taking care of him and making him better. In stead the sliced and diced him and fed him poison. How sad :(
255. stacymd2
@Kiersten: EA is right. We can't expect world-building, subtlety, consistent tone, plot & character continuity, an established magic / science system, plausible plot twists & proper character development from a program that doesn't follow a show bible--or logic. We need to lower our expectations considerably to enjoy Lost Girl. This is our main problem. Lost Girl isn't Buffy, Sleepy Hollow, Supernatural, Stargate, Star Trek, Teen Wolf, Xena or any of the better written shows.

We don't expect White Chicks to be Ben-Hur. A silly thing like believability has no place in Lost Girl. Super Scientist Lauren, M.D. is a god. She can do anything. She knows everything. Move on.

Here is a quote from a blogger on why some current Sci-fi movies are not very good:

"Movies are meant to be fantasy--we watch them for entertainment, not necessarily for education. But in science fiction much of the world that's being built--futuristic societies,...advanced technology--depends on a believable backbone. And once you start removing pieces of real science that backbone crumbles like a Jenga tower.'

'There should be a general level of scientific accuracy whether we're talking physics, biology, mathematics, geology or whatever. Real world animals should react like real animals act, unless they've been altered or infected or mutated. Physics should work as it usually does unless there's something to explain why it should act otherwise."

Lost Girl is above this. EA is above this. Terrorist-Super Scientist-Fae Expert-Genius Lauren, M.D. is above this.
256. stacymd2
@Kiersten, SuzyM, newgirl: I'm crossing my fingers and eyeballs for a Farscape sequel.

@Kiersten: Thanks for the link to the KS interview.

If Kenzi isn't brought back as a Valkyrie, here are some other options I looked up:

Loki Fae (Like Ryan)
Norn (I can't picture Kenzi revolving her life around a tree, isn't Bo enough?)
Jotnar (Giant or Frost Giant)
Alfar (Elf) Candy!
Dvergar (Dwarf)
Landvaettir (sprits of the land)
Nidhogg (dragon)
Vaettir/Wights (nature spirits)
Sjovaettir (sea spirits)
Vanir (a group of gods associated with fertility, wisdom & the ability to see the future)
Vargr/Warg (a wolf or wolf-like creature)
Raven (Hugin & Munin)
Draugen (ghost of a person that died at sea)

Of the Norse creatures, I prefer Valkyrie, Loki Fae, Elf or Frost Giant. It'll be cool if Kenzi could freeze things. The Dark Belch would always be cold at Yule.

There are many other myths Lost Girl could play with like Greek or Native American. It would be interesting if they did a myth that they haven't used before.

If Kenzi does come back as Fae, then I hope they have her choose a side. It would contrast her from Bo, showing that she can make a decision and has her own mind.
Carmen Pinzon
257. bungluna
Dorothy L. Sayers' mystery writer Harriet Vane told her swaine Peter Wimsey that she had to be more careful when she wrote her books than real life. I think it was in "Gaudy Night". She explained that fiction had to follow a strict logic in order to allow the reader to believe in the work.

This is even more true of any fantasy or science fiction book. If you have a science frame for your story, then the science must be explained in some way and adhere to the rules set for it, vis Star Trek.

If the story follows magic, then the laws and rules of the magic system must alsow make sense and follow their internal logic to allow the reader to fully immerse in the books, vis Harry Poter.

EA feels this doesn't applay to her, I guess. She doesn't believe in having a bible to fascilitate continuity and she doesn't believe that following rules, even if it's just paying lip service to them, will in any way enhance the wondrous story she's building arownd WonderMeneLauren.

I guess EA's too talented to follow in the footsteps of such mediocre writers as Rodenberry and J.K. Rowling. And lets get real, she's way above such hacks as H.G. Wells (The Invisible Man) or George Langelaan (The Fly).
Nadine Robb
258. cmm
@Kiersten When EA makes comments like that she really ticks me off. Mystical creatures may not be based in reality but they have history of their own. Same goes for science fiction and if she can't respect that, she has no business writing for or being the producer of a scifi/fantasy show. I'm sorry but the reason good scifi like Trek, even babylon 5 have pull with the fans is because they follow a logical path within their mythos. It's not just hey lets throw this here and that there and see what sticks. If EA really is not into that kind of thing then she should step aside and give th role to someone who is.
Nadine Robb
259. cmm
@Stacymd2 I agree with your post. I've been a huge fan of this genre since birth. That's the reason she irritates me so much. She has no respect for the genre.
260. lonewolf
What if the only reason Rainer needed Bo was to break the curse and get him off the train. And after Kenzi died and Tamsin brought her to vahalla only to have evil Rainer take her as his queen. She wouldn't need any kind of fae power but still be immortal. Just thought I'd toss that in there.
Just finished OB yesterday. I think there is something special about Sarah as compared to the others.

In five more days this guy's going to finish up his Hawaiian bucket list. A skydive at 11,000ft. and a four day hike on the Kalalau trail, both in Kaua'i. I wanted to do my jump at Maui last year but even tho they still have a site online, the outfit I was going to jump with had been out of business for eight years for safety violations. So I am on my way for what I hope to be a good time.

Also, this EA person almost sounds like a spoiled, bratty child who is easily intimidated. Maybe that's why she kowtows to the doccubus fans.
Marie Sullivan
261. minime2
So I was watching LG on Syfy last night and it came to me what my real issue with the series is this season. In season 1 & 2 I loved the story and then learned to adore the actors. Now, I watch the shows and say at the end "that was a fun episode I loved how __________ did __________. It looks like the actor is having fun showing range" In watching this season i feel like I am watching audition tapes for ZP and KS and not a series. The storytelling is no longer hooking me it's simply a collection of scenes with the actors showing their range.
263. newgirl
@Kiersten 253, i can't believe how sassy is that comment!!! Has she ever even read a book about Science Fiction!!! Even from books as old as Verne there's been always some linebase with sci-fi, a complete but believable made up, and she is just like "i don't care... whatever", you want Lauren to be able to do such things as changing DNA in a blink, well you should have think in a travel in time chapter and maybe there she got the idea or the research, but you are basing the show on actual days, with the fiction that we are surrounded by "mytical" creature, without us knowing, so their science is not better than ours, unless there is some power one fae has that can do something special, but just plain biology study and in a matter of weeks you came up with the cure for fae-ism!!! who the h... gave her the showrunner seat!!!? And i was checking now her statement "... I also love exploring the shades of gray; the moral ambiguity of characters who may live forever and their relationships with mortals who will not." Go and do some Vampire Diaries chapters or I don't know ask a place in the next remake of Twilight or even on some film for any Anne Rice's books adaption, for Goodness sake woman!!! Can't you see what you have made of a very good show!!!
Sorry it's just i don't follow the shows i watch on the media as twitter, interviews or anything like that, but now i understand why there's always that "bad vibe" (in a Warehouse 13 Pete's way) when talking about EA, the woman can be quite selfcentered, you can defend your characters decisions and actions because in the end they are your creations, but don't sink yourself with such a ridiculous or even naive statement: "we shouldnt expect realistic/believable medical stuff on a show that also features things like mermaids", even when right now we have Once Upon a Time with mermaids and all, but everything is quite "groundbased" if there happens something out of the ordinary is because of magic and outside the town they can't be, so is only happening in a fixed area, and then there's the other part of the comment: "she did also promise to check with Johns Hopkins next time if we're that concerned about it", that's just mocking the fans, what a disrespect!!! since when does she worked for Scy-Fy or ShowCase i don't know?? Great job of them retaining her!! (in a reaaaaaaally sarcastic way of speaking) and now just borrowing bungluna's quip: bitter, who, me?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
264. Kiersten
Let's be clear that those were my words summing up her tweets and statements. You should check out her Twitter history and the TV Guide Canada post mortems for what she said specifically. I'm not misrepresenting anything, I'm just not comfortable being quoted in her stead.
265. newgirl
Sorry, sorry Kiersten, totally my bad, really sorry for using your comment in mine as a guideline, here is the twit, made February 10 "I give you my word: next time we invent a fake fantasy Fae vagina serum, I will call John Hopkins." Really smooth!!! and yes here we have the sinking comment February 11, a little up in that very thread: "yes let's get snarky about the science of serums on a show about mermaids", way to go SyFy and ShowCase, way to go!!
267. newgirl
So... lightening the moods, sorry for my "outburst" back there, what do you think, do we get up right next morning of Kenzi's grave flower day or we have like three month already searching for nothing as a start of season5?
268. Darthfaeder
I personally am losing respect for Jay Firestone this is his show, and he continues to let her send out disrespectful tweets at the fans. I want to
give her the benefit of the doubt because I loved season 2 and 3 which she was the showrunner, but I am running out of sympathy for her if
season 5 starts out like season 4 ended. Also might I add that it sounds
like a bunch of people were insulted by season 4. She should not add
more insults to make it worse.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
269. Kiersten
Here's some ratings numbers on how Lost Girl S4 is doing on Syfy. Notice the demonstrable uptick for episode 3 Lover's Apart, which obviously is attributable to that being Anna Silk's first episode of the season and Bo's return to the show. That it's also a heavy Bo/Dyson episode with Doctor Lauren off on her own with Crystal likely has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it at all...

S4E1 and S4E3 are also the episodes that got the highest number in the all important 18-25 demographic, which is still comparatively a pretty small number.

The lowest rated episode so far was E5, Let the Dark Times Roll, the doccubus fauxunion-centered episode with Kenzi, Bruce, and Tamsin doing their dance-off thing. There is a significant uptick for E6. Well, significant compared to E5. None of these numbers are anything to crow about overall.

Overall, the U.S. ratings are on a crash and burn. Which, honestly, is a crying shame if not a surprise.
270. Darthfaeder
Hey Kiersten someone over at the Syfy forum during season 3 made the same case but they did it for Tamsin. The numbers seemed to show that when the episode was Bo and Tamsin heavy the numbers were up. Just know that those people that made those comparisons were laughed at and poo pood. I don't know if anyone here will do that at least I hope not. Those posters over at the Syfy forum were just looking at the numbers only, but you know they still had people to want to shoot them down.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
271. Kiersten
There's always an excuse/blame that can be angled for the person making the comment. I think the only thing that's for sure is that the E1 numbers were up b/c it was the premiere and the E3 numbers were up b/c it was Anna's return, but everything else is subjective.

What's not subjective is that the numbers have been declining on a whole since season 1 but demostrably from season 3 onward.
272. Darthfaeder
Yeah I get what you are saying Kiersten. I think they were fighting a losing battle because I don't think that the budget was going to allow for Tamsin to have as much face time this season as last. Hale was gone most of season 3, so I think that left more money for Rachel to play Tamsin. Hale came back for season 4 so less money for Tamsin to be around. It just never made sense to me that they would cut a popular character's screen time to half of what it was for the previous season unless it was a money concern? I just can't believe they could be that clueless? I liked Hale but now that he is gone perhaps this means more Tamsin for season 5 as a Tamsin fan I hope so.

I do agree that the premiere episodes always usually along with the finale always have the best numbers. I really haven't kept up with the
decline in the Syfy numbers from season 1 to season 4. I will say that
I am glad that the Showcase numbers are still pretty good, and that
Showcase has the last say as to whether LG continues or not. I am
sure though that Showcase really wants Syfy to continue buying the
rights because that is how Showcase makes their money.
273. nypinta
The ratings slump could also be due to this season being one of the most talked about online, and not in a good way. If I were someone in the US and I had read all the negative comments, chances are I might find something else to watch too.

@lonewolf Enjoy your jump! I loved skydiving. It's so zen. And then the swearing starts. ;) And then it's zen again. I didn't get to do it in Hawaii though, so my good luck comes with a heaping amount of jealousy too.

@Darthfaedar Studies might indicate that bi-sexuals are usually only romantically involved with one sex, however on Lost Girl Bo has clearly demonstrated the ability to be emotionally attached to both as well. So to deny Tamsin that doesn't make much sense. Plus, it's not that I care if Tamsin is with another female character (still thinking maybe Angel...) it's the idea that others here and elsewhere seem to think Tamsin can't or shouldn't be with a male. The entire first season she was on she showed zero interest in women. All of her interactions with Bo were due to fae shenanigans or necessity. Nothing sexual or emotional. It wasn't until late in this season that she showed an interest in Bo yet for some reason that one episode is seen as a moment that defines Tamsin so completely that the idea she would or could have a relationship with any male is tantamount to treason against her character or her fans, when it's not. (That last bit is mostly what I'm seeing elsewhere, BTW. Vehemently.) Her attraction to men is in the show. Her steadfast partnership with Dyson is in the show. Her sympathies with him regarding his unreturned feelings from Bo are in the show. She remarked on it and enticed him out for a night of drunkeness in S3 and we saw her solution in S4. Like Ragu, it's in there! And yes her attraction to Bo is also in the show as well as her seemingly wanting more than just a physical relationship, but one doesn't negate the other and it bothers me that the insistence that if Tamsin is going to be with anyone else it *has* to be a female.

As for EA and her comments, she does recieve an unusual amount of really nasty tweets so if she reacts with some snark I can't really blame her. So I'd like to take those tweets as a reaction to some of the nastier things said to her after some episodes and not her actual attitude towards story writing. Unfortunately, her story writing says otherwise.

The idea of Lauren being able to turn fae human is similar to many fairy tales where a supernatural creature ends up as human, usually as punishment for disobedience or upsetting the wrong powerful creature. Dyson almost did when he offered his wolf to the Norn. So it's not unheard of. To have a human be the facilitator of it is a good twist. It's the suddeness of it when it could have been explained or executed otherwise that bothers me. We don't know how long Taft was doing research on the fae, so he could have come up with something similar that Lauren found while at the compound. A simple explination of her grabbing as much of his research before she left wouldn't have been too hard. Actually, they could have shown her with some of his files when she was hastily packing to run from the person calling looking for Karen. And even had Evony mention it because if she could turn a fae human you know Evony would. She would covet that power like another Faberge egg. But in a surprising turn Lauren uses it ON her instead? Delicious irony. If it's mystically possible to make a fae human, it should be possible scientifically too. Just do it logically. It's not that hard!

Lauren did also have access to all of the Dark archives. Why not have her find an item of power and pass off her serum as science just to scare the fae into thinking she could do it to any one of them at any time. A bluff. Would also logically fit. It's that kind of lack of respect for making fantastic plot turns make sense that irritate me.

Is the SyFy board there anymore? I couldn't find it the other day. But I don't think ratings can be attributed to the appearnce of any one character since most people aren't aware of who is going to show up just when. I think Tamsin's limited role had more to do with them not knowing how to fit her into some episodes. Same with Hale. Like I said elsewhere, Tamsin had a pretty awesome arc and a lot of what happened involved her character, even if she wasn't directly involved in everything. So it's weird that her character was given so much importance yet she is seen as being sidelined.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
274. Kiersten
I was being pissy alluding to the character reasons for the rise and fall of ratings. Clearly my sarcasm font is broken again. Outside of the permiere (and Anna's return) I dont ultimately think the numbers change episode by episode has much to do with the characters being featured but rather at @nypinta notes, due to online chatter and with fans having jumped ship do to overall disappointment with S3 and only popping in for the premiere & perhaps out of curiosity to how they did Bo's return. The writing and pacing and inconsistencies have been raging some since S2 but without dispute since S3 and I think these numbers show an overall declining interest in a show that is so all over the place. But again, that's merely opinion. I know of a number of people who love the characters but dont want to slog through week by week b/c the plotting etc is so crazy. They're instead waiting to binge it all at once...if at all.
Carmen Pinzon
275. bungluna
I would love to see the numbers for the whole series, both in Showcase and in SyFy. I tried to google it but got nothing usable.

As for Firestone and EA, they did it their way and they must live with the consequences, I guess. They must be happy with the results of their labour, since they didn't amend their course (much) from S3 to S4.

@Kiersten - I myself will probably become one of those viewers who will just peek in to see how the mess is coming along and then go off to watch something more satisfying.
276. stacymd2
@bungluna: I think the only reason Lost Girl is still on SyFy is because it costs them nothing to produce.

I don't think TPTB will bring on a love interest for Tamsin. Lost Girl's budget is small. Tamsin/RS is a recurring character like Vex, Evony and Bruce who are all popular. Of course, I could be very wrong. JF said that he wants to show Tamsin's backstory, so may be a past love will show up in Faeville for an episode.

IMHO, RS's best bet to get more air time is to be hooked up with Bo, Dyson or Kenzi. EA will never enrage Doccubus by putting Bo with a woman who is a better fit than Lauren. Kenzi is straight. So, that leaves lucky loser Dyson.

To be fair, I don't think TPTB will hire an actress to be Dyson't love interest in Season 5 either. Dyson has not had a love interest in 2 seasons despite KHR being a lead. EA created Cyrstal and ruined Evony to prop up Wonder Lauren.

Since I like to dream, here is my fantasy casting for new S5 love interests for the characters who most likely will not get one:

Tamsin (RS):
Kristin Kreuk (Lana/Smallville)
Ashley Scott (Huntress/Birds of Prey)
Chad Michael Murray (Lucas/One Tree Hill)
Victoria Pratt (Mutant X/Cleopatra 2525/Xena)
Lauren Lee Smith (The Listener/The L Word)

Kenzi (KS):
David Blue (Stargate Universe)
Tyler Posey (Scott/Teen Wolf)
Texas Battle (Bold & the Beautiful-Marcus/Coach Carter)
Jay Baruchel (Undeclared/She's Out of My League)
Bronson Pelletier (Renegadepress/Twilight)
Tom Weston-Jones (Copper)

Dyson (KHR):
Christine Keiko Agena (Lane Kim/Gilmore Girls)
Rachel Luttrell (Teyla/Stargate Atlantis)
Paget Brewster (Emily/Criminal Minds)
Bree Williamson (Haven-Claire/One Life to Live-Jessica)
Melissa Archer (Natalie/One Life to Live)
Michelle Stafford (Phyllis/Young and the Restless)
Kandyse McClure (Anastasia/Battlestar Galatica)
Shannyn Sossamon (A Knight's Tale)

Trick (RH):
Hunter Tylo (Taylor/Bold & the Beautiful)
Jamie Lee Curtis (Halloween/True Lies)
Mary McDonnell (Battlestar Galactica)
Jasmine Guy (A Different World/Dead Like Me)

Vex (PRA):
Lucy Lawless (Xena/Spartacus)
Claudia Black (Farscape/Stargate SG-1)
Rebecca Gayheart (Dead Like Me)

I have a special wish that Wendie Malick (Victoria/Hot in Cleveland) will guest as Evony's mother. I want Evony's badass mother to stride into Faeville. She b*tch slaps Lauren with a major spell that strips Lauren of her identity, soul and power in a sexually degrading way. The spell makes Lauren bald, dumber, unable to understand or explain medicine/magic science, with a unibrow, acne and back hair. The only way to turn Lauren back to normal is for Bo & the Happy Sunshine Gang to find a Fae object that will make Evony herself again.
Marie Sullivan
278. minime2
@Stacymd2 Paul Amos has said in interviews that Vex is bi so you could also dream up male pairings.

As for ratings on syfy season 1 & 2 were shown back to back on syfy and the ratings in the 2 seasons never went below 900k and had an average of 1.4 mil. Season 3 was really bad with an average viewership of around 900k for the season and the highest ratings were for the finale with 1.2 mil. The lead into LG on syfy is Being Human and that has rocking ratings with a season average of 1.8 mil viewers and with 1.1 mil in the target demo for the last two seasons.

LG is actively loosing half of it's lead in audience in season 3 & 4. Showcase doesn't release it numbers but I read that LG was down last season 15% for them.

I personally think that JF and SHaw Media/Showcase doesn't really care as long as the show is being sold internationally it's a money maker and they will let the writing quality continue to languish just like what NBC did with Heroes. I remember for Heroes the fans even had an online petition and FB page called "NBC don't cancel Heroes just hire better writers". Perhaps we need on of those. I think at this point all ships would agree that we are in desperate need of better writers who understand a genre series.
279. Stacymd2
@minime2: There are lots of actors I would love to see PRA/Vex with, but I like the thought of Vex with a very strong woman. I can picture PRA and Lucy L or Claudia B chewing up the scenery.

If Vex is bi, then the writers should show that on screen not have the actor mention it in an interview. Like Tamsin, he has only been shown with the opposite sex with subtle Dyson flirting.
Marie Sullivan
280. minime2
LOL @Stacymd2, your so funny with your wanting to see important things on screen ideas. Don't you know according to EA those things are boring and kill the storytelling.
Marie Sullivan
281. minime2
Another quick ratings comment. I notice on many sites docutopia fans say they don't watch the entire episode they just watch the DL & Bo scenes on you tube and tumblr and skip the rest of the series and only tune into docutopia heavy episodes. So that may also be a big ratings issue if the "fan base" doesn't watch actual show they just tweet and you tube it and vote in every poll they can find.
C. H.
282. SmurfFae
I'd say there was one pretty big course change from S3 to S4:
Up until S3 the single episodes were mostly ... episodic (stand alone with fae-of-the-weak).
Starting with S4 we had (more or less) one single story arc. Each episode had still a distinct story (especially 4x08) with episode-only guest stars. But all the story threads were stronger connected than ever.

(But that's a general development for series, who are out of their first seasons.)

I guess another reason for the bad ratings is the big time gap between air dates in Canada and US. On a few blogs that recap according to US schedule, there are a lot of comments of the kind "I watched it already ages ago."
Kiersten Hallie Krum
283. Kiersten
@SmurfFae - the die hards watch the episode after it airs in Canada, yes, and they are the ones most inclined to comment on blogs/recaps etc, but that's a smaller percentage of the U.S. audience than it appears online. And it's always been that way without such a drastic number drop. LG got it's U.S. run in the first place b/c it was the most pirated show on the Internet and SyFy wanted to capitalize on that. The people I know IRL who watch it do so on SyFy, not on Internet, and many of them stopped watching in early S3 because they couldn't stand doccutopia and/or thought the writing/stories significantly worse that the previous two seasons. Granted, that's a straw/unofficial poll, but I got that same response over and over again and no, I did not prompt them w/my own opinion first.
Marie Sullivan
284. minime2
I guess another reason for the bad ratings is the big time gap between air dates in Canada and US.
Actually season 1 & 2 were shown in the US more then a year after they appeared on showcase. I watched all of season 1 & 2 online before Syfy season 1 even finished airing in the US. Then I still tivo'd all of season 1 & 2 and watched them a LOT. Season 3 & 4 I didn't. Season 3 also was shown within 18 hours of it being aired in Canada and the numbers were in freefall all season.

Overall season's 3 & 4 were not as great as season 1 & 2 and you can see from the ratings that 600k other people agree with me, because they no longer watch the who at all. Something is really broken on that show and I think it's too late to fix it.
285. stacymd2
Sad news! Being Human has been canceled. This is their last season. (sob!)

Also, FYI, The Red Road (Sundance Channel) featuring the deliciously handsome Jason Momoa (Stargate Atlantis/Game of Thrones) premieres February 27th.

Damn you SyFy!! (shakes clenched fist at cruel, cruel world while sobbing)
Marie Sullivan
286. minime2
Oh no @stacymd2 that so sad! Being Human is so great and was the networks highest rated show, also the only original show left on the network . Syfy got a new programming chief so I guess we are going to see some shake ups.
Suzanne Metaxas
287. SuzyM
I've been watching SyFy less and less. I don't like reality shows and I don't like those stupid movies like Sharknado.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
288. Kiersten
Guys, if you're interested, Heroes and Heartbreakers now has an official Lost Girl page where you can find all the posts (not just recaps) that have been done on the show. Recaps are also organized by season.
290. nypinta
I can see Vex with a strong, serious, ass kicking woman or... a strong yet completely non judgemental man that sees the best in Vex whether he likes it or not. Someone younger. Not as "world wise" so Vex tries to tell him what a shit he is, but this guy just won't hear of it. Aww.


I just described a male Kenzi. Well. Fine then. That.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
291. Kiersten
FYI - it appears that it was the plan for this to be the last season of Being Human and that Syfy didnt just randomly cut it off at the knees. That means no unfinished finale, but rather a planned season to end the series, which is a rare gift especially in genre television BUT is more and more the way shows are being negotiated to finish, like the upcoming 6-episode Warehouse 13 season which I expect to be balls out fantastic.
292. stacymd2
@SuzyM: Bite your fingers! Sharknado is a great, underrated cinematic classic. It is right up there with other unrecognized epics like Joe Dirt, Showgirls, The Canyons and Duce Bigalow: European Gigolo. Ian Ziering wouldn't leave a Chippendales gig for any old scipt.

For those of us who truly know fine storytelling art when they see it, Sharknado 2: The Second One premieres this July. It'll feature Ziering, Tara Reid, Vivica A. Fox and Mark McGrath. Try not to wet yourself with excitement!
Suzanne Metaxas
293. SuzyM
Oh lord not another one! Please bring back the good SyFy movies! The ones I like to watch :( And then they wonder why we all go to Netflix etc.
Carmen Pinzon
294. bungluna
@SuzyM-that, I think, is the problem. All discerning viewers have moved on to Netflix or simillar. Cable is left with the drecks who actually look forward to the 'reality' fare and the, ehem, movie masterpieces.
Marie Sullivan
295. minime2
I do have to agree with you in part on the movies @SuzyM. I do like camp and I didn't mind the sillyness of Sharknado but I don't understand why with all the amazing genre books SYFY hasn't taken a page from Lifetime and started a monthly Syfy movie of quality based on a best seller. Like what they do with Ann Rule and Mary Higgins Clarke on Lifetime. I LOVE lifetime movies and heaven to me is an empty house, a lifetime marathon and a bottle of good red wine with some reduced fat cheese-it's. Imagine all the quality for tv movies they could make with a fraction of the great books and series H&H features in the UF and PR section of this site. How great would that be!
Suzanne Metaxas
296. SuzyM
@minime2 that would be awesome! I agree @bungluna :( Yet Syfy could have us back if the would up grade their dreck :)
298. J.Fall
Looks like La Fae Epoque bucked the trend of decline which was clearly a heavy Doccubus/Zoie Palmer episode. Went up in the sig. market too. Numbers significantly higher and third highest of the series so far. I'm not one to play the ratings game but if the Groundhog epi gains momentum then it's going to look like the GA are not, as suspected here, largely Dyson lovers but want to see girl on girl action. Personally, I hope that isn't the message because a Bo/Lauren/Tamsin triangle is not what I want to see.

I'm amused that one commenter thinks the downfall is due to Doccubus fans watching Ytube clips and Kiersten, thinks they don't matter at all and it's all about Dyson fans bailing out. I personally think that fans should get together and demand better story telling rather than fall into ship trenches which merely masks the problem.

The show began as a search by Bo for her blood family and for love. She had dark and light origins and is bi-sexual. She was naive in her pursuit of love, ignorant of the complications of the Fae world. On her journey she discovers a new family, the heart of which is Kenzi and this is what sustains her and helps her through her calamitous journey. All that remains of that original character is her vainglorious bluster. Her flirtation with Tamsin shows her as unfaithful to her emotional monogamy and her diversion to Rainer shows her incapable of even being true to her dilemna of loving two people. Her ignoring Kenzi for most of the last two series also shows her as a poor friend. Lost Girl and Bo have become increasingly unsympathetic because Bo's heart is not worth winning and her friendship only counts verbally and not by action. Unfortunately, trying to have their cake and eat is has dragged down the heroine who, at heart, was just a nice girl trying to appease for her past, to an unreliable love rat. Kenzi took the heart of the show through the portal because that relationship of loyalty and girl solidarity and family solidarity has been lost. I hope in S5 they get more than Kenzi back.

They've got the glowy hand nonsense, make it clear Bo is being influenced. Her gaining of power comes at a price. Strengthen that as a theme and it might make better sense of the mess that was S4.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
299. Kiersten
@JFall - I think you'll see in my comment above that I said the people I spoke to who dropped out in season 3 did so because of dissatisfaction w/doccutopia AND/OR the decline in the storytelling and writing. I believe I've repeatedly made the point that the audience decline is likely overall due to the fact that S3 & S4 have been noticeably subpar in story, plot, character and consistency though the 'shipping wars no doubt do play a part. Also, I don't think the bit about fans watching clips doesnt matter; I do think it's not a large enough part of the audience to have this great of an affect on the ratings. Sorry that those opinions weren't more clear.

However, given that La Fae Epoque was advertised as a Dyson-center episode and the switch out for it being instead an Zoie Palmer/doccubus episode wasnt clear until you were already watching it (for the audience that is not on the Internet about the show, which tends to be the majority) if looking to blame/praise the 'ship focus of the episode for the uptick, I would suggest the increase in numbers in this case is more likely due to people who have long clamored for Dyson's back story tuning in for that reason only to be faked out again by EA and the rest.
Lost Girl and Bo have become increasingly unsympathetic because Bo's heart is not worth winning and her friendship only counts verbally and not by action. Unfortunately, trying to have their cake and eat is has dragged down the heroine who, at heart, was just a nice girl trying to appease for her past, to an unreliable love rat. Kenzi took the heart of the show through the portal because that relationship of loyalty and girl solidarity and family solidarity has been lost. I hope in S5 they get more than Kenzi back.
Yes, totally agree. I particularly like "vain glorious bluster" bit.
300. J.Fall
Bo and Lauren team up to go into Dyson's memory ..... Yeah, no clue there in the episode blurb, Kiersten. :) It wouldn't occur to me that was Doccubus heavy especially since there's stuff all over the net about it airing already. Still, it confirms my belief that shippers will twist and turn and it makes perfect sense to claim figures for what turns out to be a Dybo heavy episode and then not do the same for a Doccubus heavy one.

The core of my comment was the real point and I'm glad to see we agree on that.
C. H.
302. SmurfFae
I guess the hardcore-fans and shippers make up just a small part of the people who watch LG. And I guess from all the shippers, doccubus are just a small fraction. (But what they lack in size, they make up in noise.)

I guess that most people just want to see compelling story-telling: Sympathetic characters that deal with challenges in an entertaining way. In the first two seasons the relationship between Bo and Kenzie was at the center of everything. I don't know any other TV-series, that has had such a compelling relationship between two female characters. (I never watched Xena. Maybe I should.)
Like many others here, I believe that this sisterhood (is there a female version of 'bromance'? Is 'homance' considered derogatory? I think the fact, that no word like 'bromance' is as strongly established is rather telling...) was a major factor for the success of LG in early seasons. Back then Dyson was just a chewing toy and DL a side character.

In Season 3 the writers decided for some reasons to only pair Bo and Kenzie in very few scenes, mainly ones that had 'private investigator'-stories (Episodes 2,10,11). I guess on reason was BoLo, so there was less time for Bo/Kenzie. Maybe the writers thought, their relationship as 'besties' was already established so they went on to establish more relationships...

I guess the whole social media thing can also be a (alluring) trap for writers/producers, when they get the impression, that especially certain parts of their show are appealing, because the echo they receive (most strongly) from social media is only the opinion of the most rabid part of the fanbase. The more rabid they are the louder they get.
But obviously: The more rabid they are, the more unreasonable they are. And the more unreasonable they are, the less they share an opinion with the main part of the fanbase...

(And listening to fans AT ALL is a bad idea in my opinion. Giving people what they want is just a recipe for boredom, the opposite of entertainment. The writers should just try to write a compelling story and go with it.

An exception are obviously smart fans like us who know good from bad quality and give great advice ;))
Nadine Robb
303. cmm
La Fae Epogue was the most dissapointing episode of the season. I thought they could of done going into his memory so many different ways. For starters they could of had them go in and shown the actual people in Dyson's memory. I just didn't get the switch out to making them look like the cast. To me that made it more about Bo and less about Dyson which isn't right.
304. TheUberFan
I was excited about La Fae Epoque until I saw it.

I was looking forward to seeing Dyson's past and what was to be an event that truly shaped his character.

And I was really disappointed when it became a vehicle for Bo and Lauren scenes. :(
Nadine Robb
305. cmm
@Uberfaenatic That and the fact that it revealed absolutely nothing of value about Trick or Dyson. The episode could of been finished in 5 minutes.
306. stacymd2
@SmurfFae: The reason why there is no female version for "bromance" is because deep, close, non-sexual friendships between two males was at one point not seen in TV or movies. There have always been guy buddy movies/programs, but their relationships centered on women/masculinity/sports/action/etc. Men didn't talk on a deep, personal level to each other. Those types of talks were between m/f couples. Two non-related men becoming close in friendship was seen as "gay".

Women have always been protrayed to have deep, close, non-sexual friendships/bonds:
Cagney & Lacey, Romy and Michele, Thelma & Louise, Fried Green Tomatoes, Steel Magnolias, Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, My So Called Life, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Golden Girls, I Love Lucy, Rizzoli & Isles, Blossom, Daria, Xena, Buffy, Desperate Housewives, Girls, Sex and the City, Living Single, 2 Broke Girls, Ellen, Cybill, Girlfriends, 30 Rock, Kate & Allie, Designing Women...

Until recently deep friendships between two women never implied a sexual relationship or was seen in a a sexual way.

Online fandoms make up a small portion of the viewing audience. The majority of Lost Girl's viewers are not talking about the show online or voting in stupid polls. But, Lost Girl has been bleeding viewers since Season three, where the show's focus shifted away from what made Lost Girl fun in Season one.

Lost Girl does not do world building, science or story arcs well. The best parts are the relationships: Bo/Kenzi, Bo/Dyson, Bo/Tamsin, Dyson/Kenzi, Dyson/Hale, Dyson/Tamsin, Kenzi/Hale, Kenzi/Tamsin. I think this is why most people tune in. They care more about the characters, actors and bonds between them than the MotW. We can get funny on-liners & quirky side characters from the better written programs out there.

There is nothing wrong with anyone saying if they don't see their ship or pairing then they will stop watching. Lost Girl isn't Schindler's List. It's not Breaking Bad or The Wire. No one owes Lost Girl their TV time.

This is just my biased opinion, if it is OK to say by you @JFall, that the loss of viewers is mostly partly due to the Doccubus focus in S3 and the continued triangle and fan wanking in S4. EA knowingly and unpologetically fans the ship "war" flames plus caters to doccubus online. When viewers tune out, they find other things to watch. I've watched certain soaps for decades. When I became disgusted with the storylines and characters rewrites I tuned out. I have not been back.

@SuzyM: I'm with you. I don't know if I will watch Season 5. Season four was not as dreadful as Season three, but I'm not interested in seeing where EA will take the show. I have more fun reading Kiersten's recaps and talking on H&H than I do watching the show. That may be enough for me.

The major plot holes become more apparent as I watch SyFy's season 4 run.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
307. Kiersten
It's official! Lost Girl is renewed for a Season 5!

Details here:

Showcase link is dodgy. Try here:

Of note:
Also returning to the cast are series stars Kris Holden-Ried (The Tudors, Underworld: Awakening) as Light Fae shape-shifter Dyson, Zoie Palmer (The Guard, Instant Star) as human doctor Lauren, Rick Howland (Billable Hours, Murdoch Mysteries) as Bo's ancient and secretive grandfather Trick and Rachel Skarsten (The Vow, Flashpoint) as Valkyrie warrior Tamsin. Returning guest stars include Paul Amos (Sex After Kids, Murdoch Mysteries) and Emmanuelle Vaugier (Two and a Half Men, Covert Affairs).

Lost Girl was developed by Prodigy Pictures, in association with Shaw Media and Showcase. Executive Producers are Jay Firestone, Vanessa Piazza and Michael Grassi.
So it appears the rumors were true and Emily Andras is not returning as showrunner for S5. Which of the three executive producers will be showrunner isn't clear, but my bet is on Piazza given she's Firestone's protegee and was Andras' right-hand woman.

Also, Ksenia Solo isn't listed as a cast member. If they bring Kenzi back, my guess is it'll be as a guest star, which means it would be short-term.
308. nypinta
I think if Doccubus had been done better and their getting back together this season (which I think is the conclusion we are supposed to draw although the writers can walk back from it next season if they chose) had been after both Bo and Lauren actually confronted the obstacles between them in a logical way then their relationship would have, IMO, drawn people in. But they didn't write it well. They kept changing Lauren's back story and it didn't fit and had other characters saying OOC things to bolster her (when a few well written scenes would have done the job and I think ZP is more than capable of winning people over if she was given the right material) and then the whole "I did it all for you!" thing... WTH? So left field. So counter to everything. And so ignores all that came between them and that makes them a difficult pairing to root for. Like Bo's needs, Lauren's issues with the fae, Bo and her penchant for running off to save people she barely knows, Lauren constantly keeping things from Bo, Bo keeping things from Lauren, etc. Lost Girl might not be groundbreaking, but that doesn't mean they get to slack off on character consistency. Not wanting to write a show bible is fine... well, it's not, but whatever. But I do think they would have benefitted if someone at least actually wrote down the blood laws and every episode had to deal with those laws and the consequences of breaking them or hot to get around them or of breaking them and getting away with it but acknowledging that fact. If the fae have to live by them, the writers should too. Story will follow.

And the writers get another season to figure that out. Because they've been renewed.
309. nypinta
Or they're trying to be sneaky and let everyone think Kenzi is gone for good?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
310. Kiersten
@NYPinta - could be but I doubt it. Still, anything's possible.

I'm genuinely glad they got a S5 b/c I love 'em and want them all to be employed, but I fear the damage has been done too well by now. Contracts are up after this season too and I wonder how many of the remaining main cast members will want to resign. I would've like to see S5 at 26 episodes to see the show go out in style, but maybe without EA as showrunner, we'll lose the "cram everything into the last 2 episodes and who cares if it makes sense" plan and more story satisfaction like we did in S1.

At this point, I'm far less excited about S5 than any season before knowing there'll be little if any Kenzi & strongly suspecting that doccubus will be shacked up at the start in one way or another. Guess we'll find out in November. For the moment, I'm glad they're getting another chance to redeem themselves or sink it all for good.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
311. Kiersten
Here's the IMDB page for Michael Grassi. He was consulting producer on S4 so seems good bet he's been promoted to showrunner for S5, but that's just a guess on my part
Marie Sullivan
312. minime2
Also returning this year in behind the scenes roles are Jay Firestone, Vanessa Piazza and Michael Grassi. TV Guide Canada spoke with executive consulting producer Emily Andras, our partner on this season’s post-episode Q&A series Lost Girl Talk, about the renewal this afternoon and she offered up this exclusive statement: “I’m thrilled to hear about the renewal of Season 5. Thanks to Showcase for their ongoing support. There are so many incredible stories left to tell about Bo and her friends, and we know you, the fans, are eager to hear them!”
I just checked out TV Guide CA and it looks like you might be right and EA is out
Kiersten Hallie Krum
313. Kiersten
"Executive consulting producer Emily Andras"

That makes me think maybe not. Puzzling.
314. TheUberFan
I said this on Twitter...but not having KS listed could be a misdirect.

For anyone who watched Xena, you might recall that they actually removed Renee O'Connor from the opening credits for the first episode or two of Season 4 because Gabrielle had "died" at the end of season 3.

I would be genuinely stunned if she's gone for good or just a guest star. She is truly the heart of the show. Well for me at least.

I also noticed that Rick Howland and Rachel Skarsten were listed with the regular cast, and not with Emmannuelle Vaugier and Paul Amos as guest stars. I wonder if they're being bumped up to regular?
Marie Sullivan
315. minime2
EA has not been listed on any of the press releases as "returning behind the scenes". It is odd, perhaps she's negotiating her contract still.
316. nypinta
IIRC the woman that created the show (I would butcher her name if I tried to spell it from memory...) was listed even after she left. I think it's just a credit thing. So EA being listed as "consulting exec. producer" could just be studio speak for 'gone but we're using some of her ideas so she gets a credit' but someone else will actually be doing the work and taking her position in S5. All guesswork.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
317. Kiersten
@nypinta - Michelle Lovretta was listed even after she left the show b/c she was/is its creator. But yes, your theory as to why EA is listed so sounds logical. It does seem as though the day-to-day runner has changed for S5 though one person has not yet been identified.

S2 did not have an official showrunner & that caused a lot of BTS confusion as to who had the authority to say/do/change/approve what. Rumor was there was a lot of on set/BTS relief when EA was named showrunner as it calm things down. Hopefully, they learned from that and won't treat S5 the same way.
318. TheUberFan
I hope this heralds the end of Mary Sue-ing Lauren. Season 4 did a fantastic job of making me resent the character thoroughly, whereas I had liked her previously.

And it kills me to say that because I adore Zoie Palmer, but good grief, Lost Girl. Get some perspective! lol
319. Bore-mudaTriangle
I hope that EA isn't "in charge" or whatever this season. It gives me hope that maybe they'll stop shoving Doccubus at us.

And Lauren will be more.. realistic.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
320. Kiersten
@Bore-mudaTriangle - hope is good, but I doubt it. All of the announced exec producers have been producers for S3 &/or S4 so they were already part of how we got this hot mess. Without someone new (or old *cough*Lovretta*cough*), there's little chance of a major course correction at this point. Though in this, I would *love* to be proved wrong.
321. Bore-mudaTriangle
@Kiersten I doubt it too, even though I didn't know who was in charge over seasons 1-3 (I watched 1-3 within a span of a week), I kind of assume they will just keep giving us Doccubus and Super Lauren. They do need someone completely new, though.

I will always hope, but yeah, I will probably be let down. :(
322. TheGardner
So excited that the announcement for S5 was made(finally)! I know I am in the minority, but overall I liked S4, well the back half minus Rainer anyways. And I think that the finale set up a lot of good stuff for S5 so woo hoo!
Nadine Robb
323. cmm
So Ksenia is not returning??? Well if that is the case, there goes my reason IF ANY that I had to watch.

EDITED to add If EA is not returning, it would make sense why season 4 was such a crapfest and nothing written or connected make sense. It was her way of tanking the show before she left. But that is a big IF when it come sto her being involved.
324. nypinta
If one insisted on numbers I'd say I liked 90% of the first 9 episodes. Then 50-60% of the last few, with a good percentage of what I didn't like being things that were thisclose to not sucking. So I'd say I overall liked the season too.

The finale did set up a lot of good stuff. But retcons and sudden illogical sharp turns bug me to no end.

S5 could be awesome. I'm holding judgement in reserve.
325. stacymd2
The renewal is great news for the cast and crew. It didn't help the last time, but crossing fingers that season five is better than seasons 4 and 3.

Overall S4 was better than last season. In terms of ranking from best to worst, its S1 (best); S2; Pre-season Webisodes; Watching Reruns of S1 & 2; S4; S3 (worst).

The key to enjoying Lost Girl may be to have zero hope of it being good and just appreciate seeing your favorite characters on screen.

I hope RH and RS are now permanet cast members. Let's hope we see more Tamsin and Trick doing Ash duty, on screen.

@UberFaenatic: I also think KS not being listed could be a misdirect, but if she got the Star Wars role then who knows...The movie's cast list should be out in a few months so we will all know soon.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
326. Kiersten
@Nypinta - I liked a lot of the front end of S4 too but, like you, the retcons & illogic overall color everything else. Soon as Rainer made the scene it all went dramatically down hill but it was already hitting the wrong notes by E7 when Dyson was barely allowed a role in his own back story flashback. Still, S4 was a drastic improvement over S3 (not that the bar was too high there) so at least there was that. And I liked seeing Tamsin's back story related to Trick and Rainer come out and Ksenia Solo was amazing in every scene she had, truly the stand out of the show, but particularly in E4 and E11 to the end
327. TheGardner
I wasn't a fan of the beginning of the season, it took too long getting started. 4x01 was a decent episode, but 4x02 & 4x03 were awful and should have been combined into one episode. 4x08 was unecessary filler and I wasn't terribly impressed with 4x06 & 4x12, but that was more a product of AZ's spastic, choppy writing.

Rainer was a waste of time, the Triangle was nauseating(thank God that mess appears over) and the shadow thief training seemed like it was thrown in to make a panty joke. Still, Dyson, Lauren and Kenzi all had good character arcs and Bo looks like she is finally coming back to herself. So good stuff and I am looking forward to where everyone is and how they are all dealing in the aftermath of losing Kenzi and Hale.
Carmen Pinzon
328. bungluna
@J.Fall #298 - well said! I refer to Bo's story arc particularly.

At this point, I don't know what to believe or hope for. EA's absence can only be good for the show, imo. Kenzie's, otoh, would be a death blow as far as I'm concerned.

Bo as the main character needs a major overhall for the show to come back to a semblance of what it was at the beginning. Everything else is superfluous. Doccubus, Dybo, whatever other loopy name/ship out there, they are all dead if Bo continues to be such a douchebag. Not even WonderMengeLauren deserves Bo as girlfriend at this moment.

LG needs more world building THAT MAKES SENSE, more character development, less ret-conning of characters and events, and a more consistent pacing.

Having a long lingering intro, several filler episodes and then cramming everything in the last two episodes is not the best way to tell a story. And leaving half the story lines hanging is just plain lazy and incompetent.
329. TheGardner
I'm probably going to regret asking, but what's WonderMengeLauren supposed to be in reference to? I have an idea, but I seriously hope I am wrong.
330. Stacymd2
401 - 404 were good. 405 was retconned crap. 405 ranks 2nd to 301 on the list of truly awful Lost Girl episodes. Sadly much of the rest of the season was hit or major miss.

I hope the show gets better, but since season two I've been hoping that the next season is better.

Bo's daddy storyline is still not resolved. At this point I hope they just drop that plot. I also hope they drop the Bo is THE One/Queen/Queen Bee plot as well. Bo isn't fit to lead an orgy yet alone the Fae.

I hope the "bring back Kenzi storyline" isn't dragged out. I think she is in Valhalla. I hope Tamsin saying that Bo should not find the Hel Shoes means that either:

Kenzi is happy in Valhalla and leaving would change her
Bo isn't the true heroe and wearing the Hel shoes would cause her to become like Flora
Bo going to Valhalla would destroy it in some way causing the dead to roam Faeville
Bo going to Valhalla would cause a rift in the space time continuum resulting in Sharknado 3 and four more Twilight movies

Maybe with EA gone (if in fact she is gone or in a lesser role) the fan "wars" will lessen and there would be fewer doccubus bullies on other sites. I can dream right?

Lost Girl will get better. Lost Girl will get better. Lost Girl will get better...
Carmen Pinzon
331. bungluna
@TheGardner- I was referring to Lauren's propensity for performing medical experiments/procedures on Fae without their knowledge or consent. As Dr. Mengele did to Jews in concentration camps.
332. jdknight
Bo: Kenzi's dead
Lauren; Oh! Well you've always got me

Glad there is going to be a season 5. Hope Kenzi returns
333. jdknight
Much as I would love to see Ksenia as Han Solo's daughter in Star Wars I think she is now probably too old to play a teenager
334. TheGardner
@bungluna - That's what I thought and wow really? No really? You are seriously likening Lauren to a genocidal Nazi war criminal that convinced the children he was experimenting on to call him "Uncle Mengele" and gave them candy before he cut off their limbs or infected them with typhus? I just don't even know where to begin with everything that is wrong with that.
335. jdknight
Mengele thought he was acting for the greater good - as, probably does Lauren. She would not hesitate to torture and kill to achieve her aims. We do not know if she experimented on the dead Fae found in the field so yes she and Mengele do have lot in common. She is a really nasty vicious person
336. StephanieB
Hello everyone!

Lurker here just making a brief appearence to say that the ratings that showed up had an * in them which means it was the networks primetime average. So, they are not LG's actual numbers there's an editor's note at the end for both LG and Bitten.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
338. Kiersten
@StephanieB - Hey! Thanks for coming out of lurkdom and thanks for the clarification on the ratings numbers. I'm always thinking I'm probably reading it wrong, especially when I hear various interpretations of the same data.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
339. Kiersten
Also, tweet from EA confirms Michael Grassi as new showrunner

"Special shout-out to @thatthingofwhen in his new role as #LostGirl s5 showrunner. Thrilled for him. He's gonna kill it."— Emily Andras (@emtothea) February 28, 2014

Also sounds like she's still part of the team. My guess would be she'll be writing a few episodes. Count on them to be doccubus focused.

"Very excited about #LostGirl s5. The team is so strong & already writing fun, fresh, sexy stories. Thrilled to be a part of it."— Emily Andras (@emtothea) February 28, 2014

Because she's also doing other things

"Also super privileged to be developing stuff I love; some genre, some network; but all with real, fascinating female leads. Always."— Emily Andras (@emtothea) February 28, 2014

So there's a lot going on BTS of Lost Girl S5 to contemplate here
C. H.
340. SmurfFae
@jdknight: There has been no end to StarWarsVII-casting rumours. At one time or other everyone allegedly auditioned. As far as I know only 4 actors are confirmed yet, so I would take the rumours of KS being cast with a grain of salt.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
341. Kiersten
And then there's this from a Shaw producer...

"@lostgirlseries how's this for best job ever? #LGS5 eps 501-503. :)"— stephen finney (@finneysv) February 28, 2014

So it looks like business as usual as this was the photo that went with his tweet:
Kiersten Hallie Krum
342. Kiersten
And finally, another tweet from EA confirming her continuing involvement in Lost Girl

"@CarolynRodham @UnderFaeBush of course! Love LG they'd have to drag me away. Just different role, but still arc-ing, story editing, writing."— Emily Andras (@emtothea) February 28, 2014
343. Stacymd2
Ugh! The hope I had that Season 5 will be better is slipping away fast.
I really hope EA's involvement ends with script 502.
If not, it'll be another season of bad writing, plot holes, characters out of character, doccubus and everyone loves Dr. Frankenbitch, Super Scientist, Fae Expert, Badass Damsel, put upon slave and World savior.

Also, I guess judging from the episode titles Kenzi is in Hel?

Season six will be better. Season six will be better. Season six will be better...
344. nypinta
The titles of the first two episodes definitely tease Bo going back into the fae underworld. So naturally I suspect she won't.

And I have to agree with @TheGardner on the comparison of Lauren to Mengele. First, when Lauren was at Taft's there is no evidence whatsoever that she did any actual experiments on any of the fae he had there at all. She was in a lab and working with samples that were provided. All we saw was her attend to the cabbot in return for helping Taft the way he wanted her too. Once he shoved her (ok, she walked, but Lauren was never quick thinking in a physical way) in that cell, she was put on the same level as Dyson and the cabbot as forced participants in his plan. Everything Dyson has said afterward indicates that he knew beforehand what Lauren had planned and agreed. Same with the cabbot. They specifically chose to show her again later, healthy and mentally ok. Lauren taking her DNA happened off screen (to keep the mystery of whether Lauren would complate Taft's boneheaded plan I guess) but dialog afterwards is all meant to say that Dyson, the cabbot, and Lauren discussed the plan and mutually agreed to it as three people held prisoner that have very limited options on how to fight back.

As for what she did to Evony... I have issues with it but it hardly rises to the level of Mengele. It has ham handed and she had this plan brewing since the beginning of the season, but when your up against creatures more powerful and influential than you and have no qualms about destroying lives, fighting back with anything and everything you have is just plain necessary. Mengele took horrific advantage of opportunities afforded to him through vile acts. Lauren was fighting back against an enemy waaaaaaay more powerful than her.

I have plenty of other issues with Lauren, but characterizing her so harshly is based on assumption and projection.
C. H.
345. SmurfFae
Are there any numbers on the viewers in Canada (compared to earlier seasons)? According to the press release, LG was '#1 ranked program on the channel'.
C. H.
346. SmurfFae
Kenzie being in Hel makes a lot of sense, since she stepped into a portal to Hel. And Tamsin seemed to be unable to find her. And we have to finally meet Bo's dad, who probably snatched her.

One thing, that annoyed me in the penultimate epsiode this season (and that I didn't read any other complaints about) were all those (partially contradicting) prophecies.
Prophecies are the worst MacGuffins by themselves: They motivate action just because It Is Written.
But then we find out: For the relevant prophecy, there is another one, that kinda says the opposite. WHY? HOW?
If this were any other series, I would say: "I hope they'll resolve this glaring issue next season, by explaining someone set up this bait-and-switch. "
But since this is LG I know this would be futile.
347. nypinta
Yeah, prophecies bug me too. A few times I think they were dealt with well. On Angel (spoilers for anyone who hasn't watched the entire series) Wes comes across a prophecy that says some very unkind things about Angel and he acts upon them, only to find out that a demon had purposely planted those prophecies to remove someone that was destined to destroy him. And on TVD they had the characters all trying to complete some prophecy to get rid of werewolves but it turned out that the big bad wrote the prophecies himself so that others would find some stone he needed to compelte some spell. In both cases the prophecy was used against the good guys. In Harry Potter the prophecy that Voldemort was trying so hard to avoid became self fullfilling (as they usally do) but I was bummed that Neville didn't turn out to be the boy mentioned instead. That would have been an awesome twist! Xena used prophecy well in one of the early episodes because she comes across some king sending out troops to kill a child because of what some soothsayer said about the child being the next King and Xena pointed out that the child had no parents so if the king adopted him and raised him as his own then the propheyc would still come true but not the way he assumed.

I have a feeling that some of the ones about Rainer being evil still have time to come true though. I did like that there were things written were things that ended up being hidden because of what Trick did all those years ago. I have a feeling they had something in mind way back in S1 though because in the first episode (that aired) Trick says to Dyson something about "it beginning" and Dyson asks Trick if he wants him to try and "stop it" but Trick says they can't fight fate. I don't think they just meant Aife's return. I think Bo has been known by Trick to be something more. They let it go for a while though.
Nadine Robb
348. cmm
As for what she did to Evony... I have issues with it but it hardly
rises to the level of Mengele. It has ham handed and she had this plan
brewing since the beginning of the season, but when your up against
creatures more powerful and influential than you and have no qualms
about destroying lives, fighting back with anything and everything you
have is just plain necessary. Mengele took horrific advantage of
opportunities afforded to him through vile acts. Lauren was fighting
back against an enemy waaaaaaay more powerful than her."

I agree with you that it isn't up there with Mengele. However, I do disagree with you about the method she chose. To me it's up there with those people that infect people with HIV. They say to their partners they are clean or whatever and then they willfully infect them with the disease. It doesn't matter how bad the morrigan is what she did was disgusting and out of order. I get that it was some sort of plan, but the way the tptb went about writing it was stupid. For all intents and purposes this season the morrigan hasn't done anything to warrant such a punishment. Yah she's said how she would like to get rid of Bo, but she says that all the time. I also find it ironic how nobody else knew of DL's plans except DL. It seems to me if you are interested in protecting Bo and bringing down the morrigan, that you would at least tell the others about it. If she had I know they probably would of warned her against it. The fae maybe cruel but there are even some lines that they will not cross.
Suzanne Metaxas
349. SuzyM
Unfortunately for Zoie Palmer the writers have made such a mess out of DL's back story and what she is doing now that most people don't like the character at all. It is sort of what they did to Dyson's character in S2. If their goal is to destroy this show they are doing a great job, if not then I can't figure out why they keep just heaping on the ridiculous stories and fanning the fires of the ship wars. They have taken a hit show that was so different as so wonderful that it developed and amazing fan base that was supportive and committed and turned it into a joke with the fan base constantly sniping at each other. It is a true travesty to have taken what could have been and turned it into what it is now. A total piece of junk with fans leaving the show in droves.
350. nypinta
@cmm The description of Lauren being akin to folks infected with HIV isn't all that apt either. In this case, Evony was the one with the disease, the ability to kill on a whim, and Lauren took that away from her.
Was it poorly written? Yes. I've even posted to that fact, saying that how Lauren delivered the serum was pretty tasteless, to put it mildly.
I don't think using sex between same sex couples as a way of transmitting something that will eventually be terminal for the other does anyone any favors. I would have much preferred Lauren slip it in her drink or put it on some pizza... but that ship sailed.

But in the very first episode Evony is in this season alone she killed three people, just because she could. Then she invites Bo and Lauren to a Dark fae gathering that was only possible because they killed the entire wedding party and fed the guests to the fae that showed up. Plus, Evony is the entire reason that the claimed humans were hunted down and killed by the Una Mens. Evony is an enemy of humanity, period. Had they depicted Lauren's actions as revenge on behalf of all the claimed humans that died I would have liked it better. But they seemed to have decided last minute that Lauren would pull her stunt to "protect Bo" and I agree that it came off as completely wrong headed. But, Lauren hasn't heard Evony spouting off about killing Bo all the other times. This was the first time she heard it and knowing what we all know about how callous Evony is if I were Lauren I might believe she would do it too. To bad it was in such a Three's Company overheard conversation type way.

Now... could Lauren go all Mengele and start rounding up fae regardless of who they are, what they can do, and how they use their powers and start making them all human? Sure. But she isn't there yet. Could she instead offer up her serum as a cure for the underfae, fae that turned into mindless creatures that will eventually starve and die because they failed their dawning and turn them into normal humans instead? Possibly. (Doubt it.) Will someone else get their hands on what she has done and use it as a weapon. That is what usually happens. Can't but that jeanie back in the bottle, as they say. I am just praying they do something logical with it. Hell, the show might end with Bo voluntarily taking it herself.
351. stacymd2
"Everything Dyson has said afterward indicates that he knew beforehand what Lauren had planned and agreed. Same with the cabbit...but, dialog afterwards is all meant to say that Dyson, the cabbot, and Lauren discussed the plan and mutually agreed to it as three people held prisoner that have very limited options on how to fight back."

@nypinta: What you are saying is completely untrue to what happened on screen.

Dyson and the Cabbit did not know what Wonder Lauren had planned nor could they have consented to her plans.

Wonder Lauren didn't have time to discuss plans with the Cabbit before extracting her bone marrow. (That isn't like a cotton swab in the mouth for DNA.) The Cabbit came back on screen for less than two minutes, so it is impossible to really don't know if she was "healthy and mentally ok." Wonder Lauren took her bone marrow in secrete, so Dr. Taft & guards would not know. Having bone marrow extracted without anesthesia and proper tools/medication would leave anyone weak and sore. The Cabbit was in a torturous hostage situation, maybe she silently grinned and beared the pain before and after the bone marrow extraction.

When Dyson asked Lauren "why" when he was drugged up and strapped down to the operating table he clearly didn't know what she had in mind. Also, it wasn't until Dyson smelled Dr. Taft in the field did he know what Genius Lauren had done.

Super-Scientist Lauren's master DNA switch plan to save Dyson, Bo and Faedom was a retcon in Season 4 where, despite no onscreen evidence, the audience was told that Lauren freed Dyson and saved the Fae.

I LOVE how everyone (on every Lost Girl site) bend over backwards to worship and defend Dr. Lauren's despicable onscreen actions, but Dyson's wolves mate for life and eagerness to help Bo are the worst misogynistic traits in the world.

It wasn't a spybang...No! It was a SAFETY bang

Lauren wasn't being underhanded when she didn't tell Bo that she had a girlfriend in a coma...No! Lauren is a put upon SLAVE who was able to recommit to her contract then go on vacation.

Lauren didn't betray the Fae, dump Bo hard, do medical experiments on unconsenting victims & wasn't partly to blame in the ruining of Hale's good Ash dealings...No! Lauren SAVED the Fae from Dr. Taft

Lauren isn't a terrorist, or an accomplice to murder and isn't responsible for the deaths of 11 people who died because of her bombs...No! Lauren didn't understand what she was doing--the victims should have known not to be there. It was her brother's fault. Lauren is ATONING for her brother's crimes by helping sick people in the Congo/Afghanistan (2x) and the Fae.

Lauren didn't betray the one person who gave her freedom by maliciously stripping Evony of her life, power and dignity through unethical & abhorrent medical and scientific practices based on wrong information...No! Lauren is a BADASS who did what she had to do to PROTECT Bo from a villain who Bo could NEVER handle on her own.

Lauren wasn't the cause of her own abduction, or partly to blame for Massimo ingesting the Power Seed nor did she forced Bo to put saving the world on hold to save her, again...No! Lauren SAVED Bo and DEFEATED Massimo by taunting him and getting the Zamor twig with her Shadow Thief skills.

These are all things I am pulling from other websites and, sadly, this one.

The writers don't have to have the other characters repeat over and over how amazing Super-Wonder-Genius Lauren, M.D. is. Everyone online is more than willing to do so.
352. stacymd2
Evony being Fae is not a disease. It is who she is--her identity, power and soul. Is Bo's succubus an illness for Lauren to get rid of?

@cmm: I hope TPTB take Super Scientist Lauren, M.D. to the Fae-Cleansing direction the writers have been hinting at since Season 3. Lauren should at the very least ask Bo to become human for her. This will never happen. Everything revolves around the Triangle and Doccubus. EA is committed to telling Lauren Sue's story.
Nadine Robb
353. cmm
@nypinta I wholly disagree the Morrigan is not a disease and yes what DL did can be compared to HIV. In each situation the person has knowingly and and WILLFULLY infected the innocent party. I am not saying the morrigan is not evil but justifying what happened to her as she was evil so she deserved it is not right either.
Nadine Robb
354. cmm
@stacymd2 thank you for highlighting all the inconsistencies with DL's character. I cannot stress enough how much I agree with you and that's not because I ship Dyson/ BO, Bo/Ryan, Bo/Tamsin or any other ship. I think the character of DL is seriously flawed and not in a good way. I still can't get past how much she is allowed to get away with, it just boggles the mind.
355. Bore-mudaTriangle
@stacymd2 I agree with that post x1,000. And like @cmm, it's not because I ship differently than Doccubus, it's because she is like a god in the show. She is more powerful than Bo who is "the Queen" supposedly. You can tell which fans are Doccubus because they all praise her to no end. Though I've seen a few say "wtf" about how they made Lauren in s4. A lot even put down Dyson and Tamsin when they do something to help the team. I've seen quite a few hate on Tamsin about her "helping the Wanderer find Bo" when really Tamsin didn't. He knew Tamsin found her, even before Tamsin knew Bo was her mark. But they all say it's her fault. Which in part, yes, but not in the way they put it. A lot blame her for the Doc. breakup in s3 because she was harsh as well. And when Dyson helped with the Dawning, they were angry because it was "Bo's dawning" and she needed to go herself, but if Lauren went, it would be "Lauren saved Bo!"

Either Lauren needs to take a few notches back or become evil! She is too "good" for her own good.
356. laurenfan
I am so tired of reading all the Lauren hate on this blog! I have seen comments from previous posts about how other blogs are full of hate for Dyson & Tamsin, but yet it seems like that's all I read on here when it comes to Lauren! She isn't perfect, but neither are any of the other characters! As far as I am concerned, I will most likely not return to this site & will warn any other Lauren fans to stay away if they treasure their sanity!
Suzanne Metaxas
357. SuzyM
@laurenfan I don't see it as hate for Lauren as much as dislike for how the writers write her character. As to this blog in comparison to other blogs there is not hate here like there is on Showcase or some of the other blogs I've seen towards Dyson. No one attacks anyone for saying the like Lauren, they only voice their opinion on what they see. I think most people here are very open minded and willing to look at others views without trying to crucify them, and that definitely can not be said about other blogs I've visited. I respect the blog here at H & H for being the type of blog that lets everyone have their say without having to be fearful of attack and persecution.
358. Bore-mudaTriangle
I see a tiny bit (very little) of Lauren hate on this blog here and there, but compared to other blogs this is, personally, the best blog to state your opinion and not be attacked for it such as on Showcase. I don't hate Lauren, but I very much dislike the way she is written. If you feel the need to tell others, as you say "Lauren fans", to stay away from this blog, then it is their loss. I, and many others, like to see the different views people have on characters, even if it's negative towards the ones I like. It gives you a different perspective, especially if you're bias to certain characters.
359. stacymd2
I read to varying degrees many "Lauren is Amazing/Doccubus is Love" sites like:,, The L Chat (ZetaBoards) lost girl forum,,,, dorothysurrenders, showcase and syfy lost girl forums.

I still have my sanity. I like reading those boards.

All of them to varying degrees have posters and bloggers that twists storylines to Lauren's favor and pile on nasty hate on Dyson, Tamsin, Trick and the actors KHR, RS. They all but sanctify Lauren and justify her every action. One poster/blogger on justified Dr. Taft's actions in her post as way to justify Wonder Lauren's actions towards Evony. According to her Dr. Taft had a legitimate gripe with the Fae. My hurt my eyeballs because they were rolling so hard.

I pulled everything from post #351 from those other boards.

Even though I read those boards, I never comment on them. I don't comment there because it would be incredibly crass of me to do so. That is their happy place. Their Lauren-is-a-Goddess, Dyson hating happy place.

There are many sites for Church of Lauren devote to flock to and bash Dyson/Tamsin/KHR/RS. I don't come to H&H to hear my own opinions echoed back to me, but this is the only place (until recently)where I could talk positively about Dyson and bring up the many glaring flaws with the Lauren character without being bullied off.

I not going to gloss over Wonder Lauren's deeds or stand for unreasonable Dyson hate and KHR bashing.

@laurenfan: Welcome and I hope you continue to comment on this board. I really love reading opposing opinions. I hope you feel you can express what you love about Lauren here. Please understand, however, that I would never go on and complain about the rampant Dyson hate and "warn other fans to stay away."

Whew! Here are my male picks for Vex's S5 love interests:

Vex (PRA):
Richard Madden (Rob Stark/Game of Thrones)
Bradley James (Arthur/Merlin)
Michael Pitt (Jimmy/Boardwalk Empire)
Russell Brand *Come on, like I'm the only one who wants this badly*
360. drusilla_doll
How about Russell Brand as a long lost brother he never knew existed? LOL, the snark would be hilarious. They're a bit too alike in personality/humour however for me to enjoy a hot pairing. Richard Madden and Vex would be interesting, though, or Bradley James. Not sure who Michael Pitt is - watched the first episode of BE and was turned off by the realistic violence.
Carmen Pinzon
361. bungluna
@nypinta -
Mengele took horrific advantage of opportunities afforded to him through vile acts.
Exactly like Lauren and the Light and Dark fae. I haven't heard her decrying the horrific tactics of the Morrigan or the Ash, only sucking from that teat to pursue her 'sciency' objectives. Dead bride and who?

I expect a certain amount of blood and gore in a UF setting. What Lauren did to the Morrigan was way more than "oh well, it's so funny and really not that bad." I would have respected Lauren more if she had killed Evony or imprisoned her in some way. Metamorphosis, aside from being ludicrous, was torture of the worst kind. Never mind groping POWs, genetic experiments on inprisoned fae, and whatever else she had to do to come up with her super-duper-dna-altering-vajayjay cream.

Evony was the one with the disease, the ability to kill on a whim, and Lauren took that away from her.
The Morrigan is a Fae who has a power. She is not a human with an evil plan. In fantacy, you either accept that the Fae are a separate species with a separate morality and tell the tale from that pov, or you think they are evil (like man-eating lions) and you set out to exterminate them. Waffling between view-points is just poor story telling, imo.

Lauren took away the whole genetic identity of a thinking being. That is unforgivable, just as experimenting on blacks or Jews to see what would happen is unforgivable. And taunting her about "I dunno if it will kill you" and hitting her? How low can you get?

Most of my family is in the medical profession. Both my parents are doctors. I am very sensitive to ethical and moral violations in that field. Lauren is a horrific example of doctors gone wild. And no amount of ret-conning and explaining away her "moral" uncertainty is going to whitewash it.

Is Bo's succubus an illness for Lauren to get rid of?
According to WonderLaurne, it was! But let's all agree that what she really meant was to ameliorate the situation so Bo could be monogamous succubus she was meant to be! No feeding like a normal succubus for you, sunshine!


I don't hate on WonderMengeLauren because of any ship. I despise how the writers have contorted themselves into pretzels to make her more than she actually started as in order to what? I don't know.
* She could have gone in the "humand vs. fae" direction an become a great villain.

* She could have become more of a McGiver and less of a lab rat and been a great asset to the Gang.

* She could have stayed a lab rat and become a supportive partner for Bo.
The more TPTB and other fans try to shove her down my throat as such a WONDERFUL heroine, the more I choke on it and wanna rant.

To me Lauren embodies all that has gone wrong with this series to turn it into the hot mess it has become.

Sorry, rant over.
Nadine Robb
362. cmm
The best version of Lauren was the Lauren of season 1. MA Lovretta knew how to write her and I will leave it at that.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
363. Kiersten
This remains a safe place for people to express their feelings and opinions on the show and its characters and plot without fear of personal attack. This is why LaurenFan and the rest of you are able to post her/your opposing thoughts and discuss it as you have without resorting to name calling or personal slander. I appreciate you all sticking to that as passions have risen. Some people may not wish to visit and participate in a forum community where they read/hear things they don't agree with and would instead prefer to be among like-minded fans. That is, of course, their prerogative.

The H&H team and I will continue to monitor the community to make sure that personal attacks are not to be part of that equation. We have a diversity of opinions here and have for a long while now, and that has garnered some great discussions.

I hope *all* of you continue to contribute to that discussion.
Carmen Pinzon
364. bungluna
@laurenfan- I can rant about Bo too, and Trick and the way Kenzie's been treated in the last two seasons.
366. stacymd2
@drusilla_doll: A long lost brother would be hilarious! He could claim Vex's fortune and night club. The new Morrigan hates Vex and set up his downfall. Vex is forced to beg Kenzi (because of her mad Shadow Thief skillz) and Bruce (because he is so cute) to help him get it all back.

I too said goodbye to Boardwalk Empire after season 1 because of the violence. I have been a fan of Michael Pitt since seeing him in: The Dreamers, Hedwig and the Angry Inch (which I loved) and Bully.

@bungluna: I agree. It wasn't that Lauren took out Evony, it was the cruel, slut shaming way she did it. Her revenge (which is what I really think it was) was sexually humiliating, dismissive of life, harsh, unethical and done in a completely unnecessary manner. Evony being evil is no excuse.

A dart/trank gun with the magic vag serum in it would not have been faster and easier? Did she have to smack and taunt her?

Plus, the move was thoughtlessly stupid in every way. Lauren opened the door for a worse Morrigan to take power. One who could actually kill Bo.

Lauren has no qualms about using evil Evony's Dark Fae facilities & books for her own ends. She was not taking charge of her life, standing up for humans or getting justice for the people Evony has killed. Lauren was angry and took out her Bo, Fae and life frustrations out on Evony while telling herself she did it for Bo.
Nadine Robb
367. cmm
@stacymd2 Not even a dart/trank gun filled with the serum, just something to knock her out and then imprison her. Vex did it once it could be done again. The fae do have laws, just as humans have laws, so I doubt she would of gotten away with her actions for long. I mean look at Aoife, she got hers in the long run too.

They could of even tricked the morrigan into some magic jail cell. They could of had Trick write her to forget about Bo. There is so much they could of done. But they didn't they took the easy way out. I am hoping that next season it starts to wear off.
Carmen Pinzon
368. bungluna
@cmm- The problem is that the rules and laws of this world have not been well established.

In the first season we had Dark and Light and a Council of Elders.

In the second season one of the Elders came by to oversee the new Ash.

In the third season we saw nothing about no rules.

In the fourth season we go the Una Mens, who were very inefficient and ineffective. They started out with promise and then just fizzled, like much in this show.

Magic should have rules like science. And the show should follow it's own rules so that we, as viewers, can suspend disbelief and go along fo the ride.

Now anybody who wants to argue that the show has any type of rules, laws or continuity, please tell me what, where, why and how. I don't see 'em.
Nadine Robb
369. cmm
@bungluna I think in season 1 the basic ones were well established. I wish the Una Mens would of been fleshed out more and shown or at least talked about in season 2. They enforce the fae laws, you think they would be around more. Especially during the 2nd season, I don't know why they couldn't of defeated the garuda.
370. TheUberFan
The thing is, @Laurenfan, I and others used to like Lauren. What I don't like is a hard sell...and this entire season started to feel like the Lauren hour. She was everywhere, did everything. Somehow she had time to learn Kenzi's shadow thief skills (why? That was KENZI'S thing) and research the fae prophecies, and come up with a way to alter the genetic structure of someone. Not only their species, but also their genus....all within a couple months!

If they had said she couldn't do it with science and used some magic she found in the dark fae archives, that would have made it slightly more logistically believable. But they didn't. Because she can take a little saliva and wizard up a solution to change you into an entirely different being.

Because LAUREN.

Let's not get started with how she did it to her. Okay lets! She didn't spike a beverage. She didn't randomly inject her. Nope. She lied to her, manipulated her to get her into bed and then poisoned her via sex. And this is okay?

The entire season, everyone seemed to exist to serve her interests and her story. Dyson couldn't talk about his feelings for Bo without adding how much Lauren loved her too and Bo loved Lauren.

Kenzi couldn't have her shadow thief training without training Lauren off screen. They kept throwing these really over the top scenes with Lauren waxing on and on and I just found the entire experience eye roll worthy.

This season did a fantastic job of making me really resent Lauren and that's an amazing thing for me, someone who was once on team Doccubus to say. But they ignored why Bo and Lauren were incompatible. They ignored why Lauren dumped her. They ignored that Lauren made a long series of bad choices and instead lauded them as being super awesome.

In short, they turned her into a Mary Sue who is never called on her crap and is adored by everyone. Blergh.
371. Darthfaeder
@Uberfae per post 370 I agree with everything you said. The doccubus people cried and whined about to much Tamsin in season 3, then the PTB turn around and do the same thing with Lauren in season 4. Of course we didn't hear one peep out of the doccubus fandom about that. Such a double standard once again nausiating. I am so glad to hear that EA will not be the showrunner for season 5. She didn't even try to hide her love of doccubus and her distain for other ships. I lauged my butt
off thinking that she got exactly what she deserved a demotion. Hopefully Michael Grassi will be partial and do what is best for the show and not doccubus?( Fingers Crossed ) Oh and how
ironic you referred to Lauren being the Mary Sue of season 4, because
all the doccubus fans were saying the same thing about Tamsin in
season 3.
372. TheUberFan
Tamsin a Mary Sue? That's patently absurd. She made humongous, massive mistakes and really bad choices and that's one of the reasons I like her. She never made excuses and wasn't excused just because of who she is. She owned up to her failures and bad choices.

Even in season 4, we saw her hating on herself for decisions she made several hundred years ago. That Bo forgives her is unsurprising as, just like her constant state of denial, her ability to forgive is unparelleled. Remember in Season 1, Kenzi jumped off of Team Dyson because she was angry at him for dumping on Bo all the time (Kenzi's perspective) and the fact that she kept forgiving him infuriated her.

But Tamsin has never been treated as though everyone loves her. She's never been given skills beyond what you'd expect from a Norse fae warrior/valkyrie/police detective/assassin who has been around a few thousand years. She's never given absurd, eye-roll worthy dialogue to make her seem cooler than she is or should be.

And I don't think she got over sold last year. She was being introduced and, while I think her arc was sped up due to the shortening of the season, she was always slated to be the anti-hero/hero who would end up joining Team Bo.
373. Darthfaeder
@Laurenfan per post #356 not even going to dignify your post with a
rebuttal just gonna say Bah Bye! Plenty of people will take your place.
I will say it was just a matter of time before the doccubus fans at the
L-chat come in here to try and defend Lauren. You are all perfectly
welcome to do so, just don't expect the rest of us to go along. If you
are looking for people who only worship at the alter of Lauren you are
in the wrong place.
374. Darthfaeder
Hey Uberfae yeah I agree I was just echoing what doccubus fans were saying. They were just mad because Tamsin was taking screen time
away from their precious Lauren thats all.
Nadine Robb
375. cmm
@Uberfaenatic I couldn't agree with you more. I think every character at some point has been held accountable for their actions except Lauren. Even Bo. Although they did manage to make Bo into a total jerk this season which is wholly against her character. Like I said before I never had an issue with the possibility of Tamsin and Bo as a couple because they always made sure that they were held accountable for their mistakes. Plus their chemistry was far more potent than that of doccubus and that is without the Tptb even writing them as a couple.
Carmen Pinzon
376. bungluna
I thin LG has much better actors than it deserves and a great deal of my fascination with the show comes from seeing them all interact with each other. I blame the writers entirely for the clusterfoxtrot that the show has become. All the actors have done a great job with what they've been given, imo.
Suzanne Metaxas
377. SuzyM
@bungluna I so agree with you! LG was blessed with a cast of super talented actors and they have squandered the talent on mediocre writing and ridiculous plots! The story they could have told with the talent they have would have been EPIC! Instead we have a heaping pile of diarrhea :(
378. JDKnight
Season 4 looks much better if episodes are not watched in isolation. I appear to be one of the few people who watches the show NOT for the sexual encounters - I do not find hem erotic at all. I watch it for the story and because the actors (most of them) make their characters believable. Kenzi, Lauren, Dyson especially are brought to life. Hale too, but he, alas, is no more.

Many people did enjoy season 4 - otherwise there would not have been a season 5. Viewers were warned that season 4 would be different as indeedit was. Although I preferred the Lost Girl of LG1 - LG2 for me was ruined by the totally obnoxious Nate (that would have been the best time to develop the relationship between Kenzi and Hale since there was more chemistry between them then than in LG4) but apart from that both LG2 and 3 were good. LG4 was also excellent in its own way. There is only so much that can be shown on screen in 13 episodes and soa lot does have to happen off-screen. LG is not a daily soap opera! They should have included the webisodes between LG3 and 4 on the DVD - not sure hy they did not since they were an integral partof the story.

I would not take it for granted that Kenzi will be back for LG5 - much will depend upon what Ksenia Solo is doing and how they want to develop the other characters - it is possible that Lauren will take over the position currently held by Kenzi - I hope not since Super Ken is the reason many people watch the show. But it is a fact that more people expressed grief at the death of Hale than at the death of Kenzi.

I do hope that Kenzi does return with enhanced powers - she did not enjoy being treatedwith contempt by members of the Fae community - Hale's father and sister, the Gleve, and the acting Ash with the beard, are examples. Kenzi,who is now a mature woman, and not the youth of earlier seasons, needs to be treated with the respect she deserves by the snobish members of the Fae community. What she could tolerate as an 18-21 year old is no longer acceptable.

Her main failing was her lack of physical strength - she is not very big and obviously cannotbe expected to est Bruce or Dyson at arm wrestling but she does need to be able to defend herself effectively from stronger supernatural beings.

Hopefully, we will see what has happened to her since her demise. How did Tamsin lose her? Is she in captivity? Is she in Fae kindergarten? Has Bo's father got her? Is she a queen or is she a slave or prisoner? Does she meet the dead from her past? Will she be restored to life or is she forever dead?

Really hope that she comes back but other shows have continued after the death of much loved characters - FarScape is an example
379. TheUberFan
"Farscape is an example"?

How is it an example? Unless I'm forgetting my Farscape history, the only main character who died during the series was Zhaan. Ka D'Argo died in Peacekeeper Wars and so far I haven't seen any follow up to life after his death so I doubt you're referring to him. So back to Zhaan, the show was never centered around Crichton and Zhaan. It was sad when she left for sure but I honestly preferred Chiana's influence on the show and in the dynamic.

Kenzi is not replaceable. Her influence on Bo and the rest of the team is not replaceable. She is not an expendable character and I think that was the point. Bo had to lose her in order to see the consequences of her actions but at the same time, I just cannot envision her being gone for too long.
380. JDKnight
Da'Argo died in Pece Keeper Wars yes but there were quite a few follow up books and comics, now, hopefully new movie so he did die during the series - it was like killing Dyson in LG. Da'Argo was one of my favorite characters and to my mind killing him was on the level of killing Kenzi. I agree about Chiana!

I agree with you about Kenzi but we are not the writers. If Kenzi does not return then LG will lose a lot of fans - she is the heart of the show but maybe Ksenia Solo has other, more prestigious projects that exclude her from playing Kenzi in LG5 - I hope not but we cannot rule out the act that for whatever reason Kenzi may not return. If she does not I will be very upset because she is my favorite character and the main reason for me watching but actors do move on in their careers and if Ksenia is offered a better opportunity she cannot be blamed for accepting it
381. TheUberFan
The difference for me is that killing Kenzi is akin to killing Gabrielle off of Xena. I couldn't imagine the show without the both of them and I can't imagine Lost Girl with Bo without Kenzi. It just doesn't work for me.

Short term...sure. It will be interesting to see Bo go thermonuclear on herself and the others, angry at herself, angry at anyone who stands in the the way of getting Kenzi back. But I don't see her nor anyone else there accepting it as a final act.

I can see her mad at Dyson for keeping her from stopping Kenzi. I can see her angry at Lauren for holding her up from getting there faster. I can see her angry at Tamsin for not being as helpful in finding the helskor, and Trick for knowing that Kenzi was going to die but not telling her. I can see her angry with herself for being the one who instigated this particular crisis. Some of this anger is well placed, and some of it is irrational.

But I can see Bo experiencing it all and having that anger fuel her passion to get Kenzi back and woe be unto anyone who tries to stop her.

The fact that they planted the seed for her to be rescued is key. It might not happen the way they think it will...but Bo will be bound and determined to get her back and I think that's going to be a major arc at the beginning of Season 5.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
382. Kiersten
I can see her mad at Dyson for keeping her from stopping Kenzi.
Oh that's practically a given.
I can see her angry at Lauren for holding her up from getting there faster.
That will never, ever happen. Unfortunately.

There's a *lot* she should be angry with DL about, past and present. But two things are for sure every time in Lost Girl - DL will never be held accountable for anything of worth and Dyson will always, always, get the blame.

@JDKnight - I dont watch LG only for the sex scenes. I like 'em, sure, but that's not why I got hooked into the show nor why I've stuck with it all this while. Just because people are attached to one 'ship or another (and my loyalty there is hardly a secret) doesnt mean sex scenes are the only thing she/he is watching for. If that were the only draw, there's much better porn out there for that.

There is yet resolution to happen with Kenzi. For her and for Bo as well as for Dyson and Tamsin. Whether that means Ksenia Solo will be part of the full-time cast remains to be seen. Part of the outpouring of fan grief over Hale was due to Ksenia's heartbreaking performance as Kenzi. The foreshadowing of Kenzi's death was so heavy, it was almost anticlimatic when it happen. It was much less sudden than a sword through Hale for sure. More than that, though, almost everyone is expecting her to return, due to the show's implications and the understood rules of genre television. So the grief for the character's death is mitigated by the expectation that she'll return at the start of S5. Also, having them happen practically back to back (Hale died in E11 and Kenzi in E13) lessened the emotional response. There hadn't been enough recovery time or additional build up. But I definitely don't think the fans grief over Kenzi was less than what was expressed over Hale.
383. TheUberFan
Oh I don't know about that @Kiersten. Normally I'd agree with you about Lauren and how she always gets a pass...but Kenzi has always been a special case.

Remember The Kenzi Scale? Bo was genuinely angry at Lauren and told her if anything happened to Kenzi, it would be on her (Lauren's) head. So I think the blinders come off when it comes to our Russian.

And I frankly think anything and anyone that's perceived as either an obstacle to getting Kenzi back or as having caused Kenzi's death in the first place is in a position to get steamrolled.

Regarding losing Kenzi versus other characters like Hale...IIRC, EA had teased prior to the finale that the events in Dark Horse would spark a very specific arc/mission. So I would be totally stunned if they don't get Kenzi back, though I imagine it will cost them to do so.

So I'm upset that Kenzi died...but only insofar as I hated seeing it happen and I hate how it will affect our team.

Also...and this part drives me nuts...Kenzi said she had to do this to help Bo save the world. NOT SO. Bo played absolutely no role in the final battle.

The one who saved the world was KENZI, who was assisted by Dyson, Trick and Tamsin who did their best to hold off the undead before Kenzi gave up her life to close the portal and save the world.
Suzanne Metaxas
384. SuzyM
I agree with Kiersten that the reason for the lack of mourning for Kenzi is because we all don't believe she won't be back. Hale on the other hand may be gone forever.

I am a huge Kris Holden-Ried fan so he is one of the reasons I watch Lost Girl, yet let me clarify it is not for the sex scenes or for the skin scenes that I watch the show. Yes seeing him without his shirt is fun, but it is the fact that I enjoy watching him act that keeps me coming back. That is why S3 & S4 irk me so much. They have a great talent here and they are so wasting it! Zoie Palmer is another gifted actor and she also has been done a great disservice by the writers! She even more than Kris has been given drivel and tripe to work with! Her character had so much more depth and dimention in S1 & S2 in the beginning. The end of S2 was the beginning of the end for DL's character. It became almost cartoonish after that. "Super" Lauren, yuck! She should have been treated more like Kenzi, a human trying to fit in, in a Fae world. Not because she was a slave but as she said in S1 because she wanted to know them better and found them fascinating.

Trick too could have been fleshed out so much better and Rick Holland's talents utilized! Instead of the silly monk, he could have been portrayed as a traveling troubadour and they could have had him sing. And he could have secretly have the monk skills that he kept under wraps. No one would ever think the Blood King would be a traveling troubadour :)

I could go on and on but I don't want to bore everyone ;) Just some of my thoughts.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
385. Kiersten
I'm not sure Trick was supposed to be a monk or at least that's not how I took it. Yeah, he wore robes & had a "prayer room", but I thought that was more a personal choice as he was seeking to understand/atone for what we now know were previous acts/mania as the Blood King, not that he'd joined a religious order. While he didn't remember the events that involved Rainer, I can't believe those were the only times in his past where he gave in to his power and believed his own press. It's clear he'd been working on the plan to go to the New World (which nobody called in 1899 as the U.S. had been an official country for over 100 years by that point) and start a new Fae colony. He knew he needed a second; he'd done his homework on Dyson. I think he was meditating and planning and waiting for time and place to align while within the company of holy men to help him curb his power-madness. But either way, the show is less than clear about Trick's status then and yes, could've made him a traveling troubadour, or, better yet, the manager of Flora's cabaret...
386. TheUberFan
Are we certain about the timing of La Fae Epoque? I ask because in early Season 3, Trick talked about an operation he ran on the docks in the 1700's IIRC, which would be tough to do if he were still in France at that time.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
387. Kiersten
We are certain about the date of La Fae Epoque, yes, b/c the monk in the interrogation room tells Bo, Kenzi & Hale that "Dyson" killed Fae & humans in 1899. Plus the newspaper that BoDyson holds up in the beginning of the memory walk says 1899
Suzanne Metaxas
388. SuzyM
And once again the writers have screwed up the time lines. They really need a show bible!
389. TheUberFan
Oh I forgot about that. I haven't rewatched it lately. lol
Nadine Robb
391. cmm
@ SuzyM They did have one in season 1 that existed all the way up until part of season 3. Then EA uttered those dreadful words that destroyed it.
"Take everything you know about Lost Girl and flip it" or forget about it or whatever vile words it was.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
392. Kiersten
@cmm - she/they said that about S4, not S3, and it was about the memory loss and The Wanderer bullshit, not the show bible issues. She has, however, said in interviews that while Lovretta did have a show bible when she created the show and ran S1, as of S3 when she took over, they don't really follow it to the letter so much as do whatever sounds like a fun episode, or something to that effect. Reading between the lines, since S3 they've taken the sexy, interesting Urban Fantasy S1 & S2 were and turned it into a campy, increasingly border-line vulgar, anything goes, sex for sex's sake, supernatural show
Nadine Robb
393. cmm
@Kiersten the reason why I say part of season 3 is because I don't consider what Lauren did to Taft as being part of the show bible. I can agree with you they didn't follow it so much for the rest of the season, but to be honest I think season 4 obliterated it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
394. Kiersten
Don't confuse the show bible with what's refered to as "canon". The bible holds the rules of the world within the show - like Dark and Light Fae can only fraternize on one day of the year, and children born of a human and Fae mating will have no supernatural powers, and Bo is capable of monogamy if she wants it but physically may have issues with that, and Doctor Lauen is in her early 30s and has been a fugitive from humans for X many years ergo she can not possibly have garnered enough medical knowledge to be a neruosurgeon, a chemistry specialist, a geneticist, a psychologist etc on 2 different species - and it keeps track of what happens in the course of the show that may alter or evolve those rules and also the basic "what happened when" of back story and history. But it's not about "Bo said she loves Doctor Lauren. That's canon!" I see those things as slightly different things.

However, yes, S3 and without a doubt, S4 basically ignored any part of that history that interfered with whatever crazy they wanted to put on screen for kicks and giggles or simply for shock value.
Carmen Pinzon
395. bungluna
I see it more as lazyness and desperation. If the show has been decreasing in viewership since peaking at whatever point, then EA just decided it would be more expedient to throw out the bible and concentrate on jumping the shark, or the mermaid, or WonderMengeLauren, as the wind blew her.
Susan White
396. whiskeywhite
May I chime in a bit belatedly about grief and Kenzi's death? Speaking only for myself, I wasn't really upset by her death at all, not because I don't treasure her as a beloved key character in the show, which I do, but because I took it for granted that she would be coming back. She even says herself -- unless we're meant to interpret this purely as brave talk -- that she's just going to go to Valhalla and wait for Bo to find her (and bring her back presumably. Bo wouldn't just come to visit and say "howdy"). For this reason, I was struck when I read elsewhere that a fan had been "crying all day" about Kenzi. I was more depressed at Hale's loss because he, unless the fan response has enough impact to change it, is clearly "dead dead." It is very ominous news, however, that Kenzi is not listed among returning characters. Now I'm worried.

But I do agree that if KS has better opportunities coming her way, I wish her nothing but the best. Much as I hate to say it as a Canadian, she lives in Hollywood/LA and not Toronto for a reason.
397. TheGardner
I really hope no one is watching this show for the sex scenes! The ones this season were awkward, boring, awful, and offensive, in that order(403, 404, 406, 407).

I disagree that Lauren gets a free pass. How soon we forget S1 were Bo punishes Lauren for several episodes over the 'spybang'. Meamwhile Dyson lies to her all season long and when the truth comes out she is mad at him for half an episode, yeah that's balenced. Also she never holds him accountable for withholding from her that he got his love back or lying about it during the 'healbang' in 304. Lauren got blasted in the kitsune episode and Dyson got a pass. I think this argument is moot and can be skewed whichever way people ship.

One final thought, after reading these comments, I pretty much agree with laurenfan. Half of them aren't even discussing the show, just hating on the character. The Dr. Mengele comparisons are particularly disturbing, way off base and offensive. And while I will agree that posters are free to say positive things about Lauren on here, say negative things about Dyson and the claws come out.
Carmen Pinzon
398. bungluna
By all means deflect from one character flaws by bringing up another one's shortcomings.
399. Stacymd2
Telling Bo that Trick was her grand father was Trick's story to tell. Dyson begged Trick to tell her. Eventually, Dyson did tell her. Dyson not telling Bo that Kenzi got his love back, when Bo was already in a relationship, is not a high crime or a betrayal. Those are his feelings, he doesn't owe Bo his every thought, especially when telling her would not (and did not) make a difference.

Dyson didn't lie to Bo when they had healing sex in 304. He said no strings or feelings and there weren't any. They both have had healing sex many times before. Dyson didn't try to force Bo into a relationship or talk about feelings after 304. Bo and Lauren broke up on their own. D & B having sex in 304 was not the cause of the break up or Wonder Lauren leaving the Light to join Dr. Taft's lab of horrors.

Wonder Lauren is part of Lost Girl. Talking about a major character is discussing the show. Discussing Wonder Lauren's gross actions in 412 & 413 or past seasons is not hating on her.
Carmen Pinzon
401. bungluna
There is a marked difference between hating the actions and development of a character, especially when focusing on said actions, and hating a character because of intrinsic characteristics of that character.

Dyson as a character has not been much developed since S2, imo. Ok, he's a wolf shifter, a protector, a romantic, an medieval male in today's societe. Take your pick. For me, there's not much to discuss with him because the writers have not done much with him.

He was intriguing in S1 and part of S2. After that, he's just been used as Bo's Beta and WonderLauren praise society mouthpiece. Ok, so he was Kenzie's big brother too. He wasn't even used as the main character in his own backstory. What more is there to say about him?

What's been done to his character has damaged the show, but it's been so little that it hardly signifies, imo.

The distortion done to WonderLauren and SuckyBo has been much more damaging, again imo.
403. J.Fall
I think you're all missing the BIG CLUE or you would be if anything in Lost Girl added up. Lauren, Dyson, Tamsin and Kenzi are unable to break the bond with Bo once created. We've seen Lauren and Kenzi reject Bo, try and pull away and yet both turn back and offer themselves to her again. Dyson has never stopped apart from when he was loveless and he still was circling in orbit. Tamsin's the same, a couple of feeds and she's there like some adoring spaniel. I think they're all in Bo's thrall (you can add Rainer to the mix as well) and if there was a real twist, it would be that Bo realises that they don't love her but they're addicted to her Succubus allure. This is the only thing that makes sense of the plot so far and can redeem the characterization of the main cast. Otherwise they'd get over Bo's the best BS and realise that most of the problems they face are caused by her and her bloodline. You can see how desperately they tried to retrieve Bo at the end of S4 when she was RIGHT about Rainer despite all the build up suggesting she was very WRONG about him and had been dull witted enough to open the portal to whatever nasty is out there. I think the end of the season seemed so weird because it appeared to walk back from it's original premise. Bo was beginning to look very stupid, which is why many fans presumed her influenced. I still think they have to play that hand, if you pardon the pun because Bo achieved very little apart from getting her friend killed.
C. H.
404. SmurfFae
@J.Fall: Trying to make sense of the plot is not recommended, as it is the path to much sadness and despair.
405. J.Fall
I thought a new perspective was better than constant Lauren hate by subtext 'I want Bo/Dyson,' 'I want Bo/Tamsin,' posts, it gets a little dull. I don't really expect LG to make sense, I would just like it to surprise me. I can't see how this season was 'upside down' it was just more Bo dithering in her relationships and making odd choices in her allies.

Bo always being right about people takes away the rest of the characters agency, are they all just supposed to follow her blindly. Tamsin and Dyson seem set up to keep the stupid shoes from her and they'll just be wrong won't they? No doubt Lauren will be landed with a dodgy brother and more testube shenannigans and veer off on another tangent. But hey, five seasons, they're doing something right. I'm not sure what it is.
Nadine Robb
406. cmm
@J.fall Maybe for some people there is a shipper under tone to their comments, but I can assure you for mine there is not. The reason why there is a lot of dislike for Lauren, is cause there is a lot of stuff that goes down with that character that defies logic. You say that Bo is always right about people, I disagree. There has only been a few times she has been right about people. More often that not she tends to trust a lot and then gets screwed over in the long run. If you ask me she doesn't take away the other character agency because half the time they tell her a prophecy or give her advice and she makes a decision based on that advice.
407. doppleganger
It seems like all (most) of us agree that there is a distinct difference in plot, tone, character development between S1 and 2 (at least half of it) and S3 and 4. Personally, I really liked S3 because it was nearly all MOTW and Tamsin was a wonderful breath of fresh air. There wasn't any serious character assasination and the show bible wasn't violated. S4 however ... WTH. Does anyone know why the show bible was thrown out? I mean, the show clearly devolves into chaos in S4 where none of the previous rules, roles, or character backstories apply ... and neither do any of the rules of the Fae world.

DL is the epitome of this cataclysm. I used to love her character ...even through S3 when we heard about her Afghanistan adventures (a liiiiitle far-fetched, but I can go there) because her basic motivations could easily be tied back to what we knew of her before and there wasn't (too often) this overly effusive on-camera exposition (from the character herself) of how awesome she was. Then there's the serum debacle. Well-versed territory. Now when I see WonderLauren on screen I cringe. I feel so bad for ZP.

So, tell me, if EA is out, will there be a return to canon and the show bible?
On Kenzi: There is no way Showcase agreed to greenlight S5 without assurances Ksenia Solo would be back. Right? Right!? That's when I call party foul and go home. I love the other actors, but she completes the show.
On Season 4: They really had two very distinct season arcs here: 1) the demise of the una mens and the light/dark divide and 2) daddy darko. They tried to cram all of it into one season and it was a MESS with too much off-camera action (often the best action: hello, shadow-theiving!?) and underdevleoped character arcs, relationships, and plot. Just a MESS. BUT: If they simplify in Season 5, the scooby gang rallies to save Kenzi, we get a little Valhalla backstory, and Bo stops being such a self-involved asshole ... I'm totally game. I could even be convinced to join team doccubus ... But DL will need a serious dose of comeuppance and humble pie ... and a return to being a searching, striving, contributing member of the team. And I don't mean team Bo. I'm all for Team Human.
408. doppleganger
@SmurfFae ... agreed. Sadness, despair, and gnashing of teeth. You can't follow the plot (your head will explode a la BTVS Hush) or defend Bo's actions ... But maybe getting her friend killed (as you say @J.Fall) will be her wakeup call to being such a blind, naive, bullheaded jerk. She certainly wasn't the likeable succubus we saw in Season 1 that stood up for the Fae who fell for a human and explained why she fought for her: (If she can't choose her own path) "What chance do I have at living a life of my own. And who would want to live it with me?"
Carmen Pinzon
409. bungluna
Acquit me of hating Lauren because of any ship. I loath the character all for it's own horrific ret-conned pseudo development. And again I say that this ONE character epitomizes what has destroyed a show that started out with such promise.

As for S5, I'll probably tune in to see how/if Kenzie comes back. Other than that, all the characters could be swallowed by a Kraken and I wouldn't care. Maybe save Tamsin and Dyson and have the great Fae Detective Adventures.

Why can't anybody do a good UF show?!
410. newgirl
Hi, long time gone, and took me a long time to catch up too, lol, well about Ksenia not been in the list, i just think is some sort of ruse they are playing for the fan to fall in, as UberFaenatic in 314 said, it has been done with Xena previously, at the point of removing Renée's name from the intro, and (now this is just me trying to tease a little more with the writers "game") we do have series that cut off one of their main character and never brought it back, some with explanation and some with out it, besides Farscape, where it was more than justified (at least for me), all the make-up was considerably affecting Zhaan actress, we have Charmed where Shannen and Alyssa wouldn't stay in one set together (it is a way to speak, there are many post over the web talking about it) so Prue Halliwell was dismissed, but for example we have Sanctuary, where they killed Amanda's Tapping daughter, Ashley I think was the character name and even gave her a "posible-alive-death", bc there was never any body retrieval and all the stuff, and they never brought her back, and i really don't know why they cut her out they never let it clear, but after that, i just saw Sanctuary very little at the point that I'm not sure in what it ended when cancelled, but I'm sure Asley never got back unless in memories of the previous footage of season 1 and 2, but (and this is why i said the previous was just me playing along their "teasing game") I really think Kenz is coming back, first I don't think Ashley/Zhaan (though I like them a lot) ever got the importance of Kenzi and second I think what they did at the end of season 4 was making amends for a screw up season (they must have read the discontent in fans since S3) and betting on (not the dark horse) but the horse who surely would gain them their return for a 5th time, fans wanting the return of Kenz, bc all the shippers go back and forth with D/T/B/L but one point in common is Kenz, none goes "against her", everybody likes/loves Kenz, with her quips, her troubles, her commitment, she is the heart, while everyone else goes around been missing and everything else when Kenz is hurt it get's messy, chapter 106, 204, 306 and in s4 we didn't have an specific chapter with it, but almost all season with her receiving tiny blows from her friends, specially from her BFF, as when Bo left to go after the "phantom train" and said goodbay to Lauren and Dyson, like hey if i get trapped all over again Kenz doesn't matter... WTH was that!!!, so I really hope they aren't all "nuts" not to bring her back.

I'm really happy to have Rachel as one of the regular, really good adquisition, i like her even when she was the badass dark valkyrie from season 3, and in this season it kind of grew on me even more with her kenz relationship, though she have at lost sometimes bc I don't know how to place her as a child/teenager or old times Tamsin, it's like Kenz and Dyson talk in ep404
Kenz: She's just a baby, she doesn't even know how to twerk yet!!
Dyson: Yeah, well she also suddenly looks like my old partner who used to bang Hydras over lunch.
About Lauren, I agree almost with everyone here, it's not the character itself, but what the writers have done with it, I liked Lauren, though I liked her far from Kenzi, I couldn't stand her rolling eyes at Kenz as if Kenz was some spoiled family/friend child she had to put up with, but besides that, i liked her role, not loved but liked, this is about DL not ZP who I think it's a great actress, but writers keep putting on DL so many things that it is TOO MUCH for a character, by the way stacymd2 i loved what you did on 351 comment.

So we have the pict of the first 3 chapters scripts, thanks Kiersten, I'm kind of afraid of ch2 with EA behind it, but let's hope... annnd someone has found what Oroka means?, I only could found it ment some sort ignorance almost stupidity in Japanese, so not quite sure the title's meaning.
411. Lurker
There are some here who dislike Lauren's transition in season 4 but there are many differing opinions. Many of my friends who loathed her previously loved the fact that she grew stronger this season.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
412. Kiersten
Hi @Lurker. Thanks for leaving a comment.

DL definitely grew stronger in the beginning of the season - all of which was completely undermined and negated in the finale where she ascribed all her growth and agency of the season to being all about Bo. That's not growth, that regression and not the good kind. Additionally, it would seem all the growth only made her make even worse, more horrible decisions and choices since she assaulted Evony in a brutal, violation that's actually quite worthy of the amoral Dark Fae and then boasted about it without regret or shame. Sure Evony is essentially evil, but the manner in which a character responds to a villian is about that character, not about whether the villian deserves it or not. DL showed her true character when she used sex as a conduit to rewrite Evony's DNA to make her human knowing that in a world where humans are enslaved, Evony is likely to face death for that change. I don't think that's the kind of growth her fans were hoping for.

So while it looked like her character was on a trajectory to something new and different, to a newly-empowered Doctor Lauren, in fact it all turned out to be a fake-out as in the end all her actions were so she could subject herself, even enslaved herself it could be said, to whatever Bo needed/desired. She even essentially told Bo to Claim her, the woman who'd rallied so much against being owned by her ex-girlfriend in E5 now offered herself up carte blanche erasing any agency she may have begun to claim in the earlier episodes of the season.

That's part of the overall frustration with her character. Everything growth-related that she does eventually gets undone if it in any way makes her less available to Bo and that's just sloppy, fan-driven writing. After two seasons of that happening over and over again, it's eroded any trust in the writers that they'll ever do anything interesting with her character and stick with it and it's also erased any confidence that she'll ever come into her own agency or be anything more than Bo's pet human doctor lover. Which, frankly, is a shame. If nothing else, Zoie Palmer deserves better than that to work with and develop.
Susan White
414. whiskeywhite
@TheGardner, now you make me want to go back and watch all those sex scenes. I actually find I have little urge to rewatch season 4 episodes (except #1, "In Memoriam"). I wonder why?

I have agreed with you before that the amount of Lauren critique, shall we say, here is excessive. Everyone deserves their say, and I'm always open to new angles in analysis. But multiple repetitions of the same point becomes tedious. I agree as well, and I should have said this earlier and not left it up to you to make the tough critiques, that I also did not like the Dr. Mengele comparison from its first appearance (and now multiple repetitions). I get the human experimentation on prisoners connection, but it seems inappropriate to me when used in a semi-joking way in the context of a comedic fantasy TV program.

Now, you will surely be expecting me to jump on the 'defend Dyson' bandwagon, as I am always happy to do. @Stacymd2 has done a good job, so I won't repeat her points. I will, however, disagree with her on one point. Dyson was indeed lying to Bo during the healing sex scene. He was blatantly lying through his teeth with the "no feelings" assurrance. He had his love back for Bo and there were plenty of feelings on his part (which at that point he was still keeping secret from Bo). But the intention was to convince her to use him to heal and thus stave off her death. And it worked, precisely because he assurred her "no feelings" (she even repeats his words as she eventually agrees). Can he be faulted for this lie? Would she have agreed otherwise?

Laugh out loud award of the day: @SmurfFae's, "Trying to make sense of the plot is not recommended, as it is the path to much sadness and despair." I had a brief peek at the Showcase blog near the end of this season and someone was complaining that the plots didn't make sense. To which another person responded, 'Can't they have simpler plots so we can understand?" Aw. But it just shows to go you that we are not alone in the universe.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
415. Kiersten
I'll say this about the "Lauren bashing" and "Dyson defending" accusations.

There is no other site that I'm aware of that discusses Lost Girl where you can say anything negative about DL or positive about Dyson without getting personally attacked. Many people here are expressing pent up feelings about both characters (and of Tamsin for that matter) that have been denied an outlet anywhere else. Naturally, that's going to bring about an excess of expression. So yeah, the Doctor Lauren critique may seem excessive but that's more likely because there is virtually no other place in the fandom to safely express it than anything else.

Also, the show is blatantly biased against Dyson and in Doctor Lauren's favor - it doesn't even try to hide it anymore - and this site, again to my knowledge, is also the only place where frustration with that can be expressed without fear of being personally attacked. Doctor Lauren has basically been cannonized on screen and off to what's become absurd levels. I am not going to apologize for not catering to that bullshit.

No one is bound by any "fair play" rules regarding fictional characters of a T.V. show. There's nothing that says any commenter has to play nice with DL or apologize for defending Dyson. That is the overall erroneous conceit of the show's and one faction of the fan base's bias.

There are plenty of discussion sites out there who venerate the Doctor Lauren character beyond reason. That's not an interesting conversational debate to me. That's blind sycophantic worship I've no personal desire to perpetuate. I like that here at H&H we have proponents and devotees of the rest of Lost Girl which is so much more than worshipping Doctor Lauren. Yeah, that probably means we have less die-hard doccubus participants but for the occasional ring and run posts. But those people aren't really interested in a discussion or debate but rather only want to cheerlead their own faction. There's nothing wrong with that. The Internet is a big place; plenty of space for everyone. Frankly, I appreciate those DL fans who do join us here (and there are more than you might think); they make the conversation that much more interesting and diverse.

I don't like Doctor Lauren. I thought she was interesting and ambiguous in S1 but after the (first) spybang and throughout S2's many reveals and manipulations, she became more and more frustrating as a continuing romantic interest and more and more baffling as to why they haven't let her become the Big Bad she's been moving toward this entire series. Now she's become a passive agressive snob who makes awful decisions that constantly put herself in harm's way when she's not jeapordizing other characters from which she needs to be rescued often at the expense of the other's well being. She's been made into a poorly-written Mary Sue with a laughable back story and a ridiculous list of medical credentials who we're constantly told is an amazing genius self-sacrificing humanitarian wonder doctor when she does horrible things to people, Fae and human, and is excused at best and lauded as the "hero" at worst for doing them. Her relationship with Bo is increasingly toxic and, outside of the (boring) sex, has ultimately brought mostly misery to both of them and yet it continues to be shoved down the audiences' throats. As long as that continues to be the poor way she (and it) are written, I'm going to continue to call her and the show out for it.

And no, before all y'all jump on my neck, I don't blindly worship Dyson. I call out his bullshit when there's bullshit to call out. But I don't crucify him for every word or deed he does even when it's suddenly OK or even a sign of great love and devotion when one of the women says or does the exact same thing. The show is already (badly) written for everyone else to do that. And I'm not going to let unfounded attacks on him made here or in the show go by unanswered either especially when so much of it is simply sour grapes because he's a man and he won't go away and let Lost Girl turn into a total vag fest mess once and for all.

Feel free to call that whatever you want.
417. Tempest
I think Kiersten is pretty much on point here. I don't jump in and comment very often, but I do read them and God forbid ANYONE say anything negative about Jesus Lauren. She can lie, cheat and steal and still be viewed as the savior who can split the seas and turn water into wine.....all with a stupidly convuluted back story. I dig ZP, and Lauren wasn't a character I disliked but they writers have done her no justice at all. But in all honesty....the writers are doing the show itself no justice. You know it's bad when it gets to the point where you can't really stand the main character. And I'm talking about Bo.

I used to love Bo....this season....I can't even stand to look at her or listen to her. Dyson has shown plenty of faults as well. To be honest, Kenzi was my favorite character, but hey.....let's kill her off! This show is circling the drain quickly and I don't see it getting any better. Especially when writers like EA turn the show on its ear, pay no attention to what's happened previously and seem to write with only one faction of the fan base in mind. It's crap. How about writing FOR the characters that were established in S1. I get that characters need to evolve with the show...but that clearly hasn't happened here. It's become more about how many times Bo & DL can screw/breakup/get back together blah blah blah. Over it. And I'm over the bashing that I read too. Everyone has an opinion....let's just leave it at that. I stay the hell away from anything remotely DL-centric because of the attacks on someone who may not share the same opinion. It's shitty and people need to stop.

But I digress........
Lauren should not be immune to criticisms. Neither should Dyson, or Bo, or Kenzi or anyone else. And's just a show. There is no need to attack a fellow commenter for a differing opinion. Seriously people....c'mon!
Carmen Pinzon
418. bungluna
A show, book, movie, act can be funny and campy and still be incredibly offensive to somebody. Let's call it the black-face syndrome. Every time some gay character is critizices somebody screams "homophobia"! My pet peeve is medical misconduct and I will call it out wherever I see it. I don't watch medical dramas for this reason. I thought I was watching an UF show. Pardon me for being deeply offended at Lauren's so-called medical prowes. That bit was in now way a "joke."
419. Bore-mudaTriangle
I was actually thinking the same thing before I read @Kiersten's post. I think there is a lot of Lauren critique (or it's seen as a lot) because most LG blogs, such as Showcase, are over run by Lauren supporters and a lot of people don't feel comfortable stating those opinions because they'll be attacked. I've seen it many times on there, even been "attacked" myself when I asked what makes Lauren different than Taft. And it's not just them degrading your opinion, I see them degrade the posters themselves and that goes too far (not all of them though). This is the only place I've seen where I and others can openly say "bad" things about Lauren (or good about Dyson(DyBo) or Tamsin(Valkubus) ) and not get beaten down with how amazing she is and how wrong we are. I believe all or most blogs (esp. Showcase) would have more negative Lauren feedback if it weren't for those fans who take it too far and are vicious. Even the other day someone posted something anti-Lauren and a response she got back from a Lauren supporter was, "I'd go into hiding if I were you." No one should "hide" because they stated their opinion, and this is a place where we don't need to hide. I wouldn't want to be in a place that had alllll the same points of view, it is boring and doesn't give you anything to discuss, so I like the different opinions I see. I welcome the pro-Lauren posters, just as long as they respect our opinions too.

I actually really liked Lauren in S1 and part of S2, they just gave her so much stuff to work with and to me they tried to make her too likable or interesting. She has Karen, being in war, a (now dead) girlfriend who was put in a coma, she's this amazing doctor in like.. every field ever, she knows the Fae better than the Fae themselves, now she has some shadow thief skills, etc. If she were a cartoon her head would be giant and veins would be visible with the amount of knowledge/experience she has.

I have a serious question though. Do they not do background checks or DNA testing or whatever when you go into the Army? I don't have any knowledge about it so I am curious. Because Lauren has been running away since.. awhile. She joins the army, nothing comes up. She then goes with the Fae, and has been working there since. She is in her early thirties, probably? I just find it odd. Plus didn't she go to Harvard or something too? She's done so much and it's crammed into a little time frame. In her own words - she's "scary smart!"

Oh, and I love ZP. She's hilarious and adorable. She's not the problem, the writers are.
421. Lurker
Kiersten thanks for the response. I understand where you are coming from but my friends are more casual viewers who saw Lauren take out Evony at the end of the day. Good triumphs over evil.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
422. Kiersten
@Lurker - it's funny, I actually find myself glad I can relax and watch something like Sleepy Hollow or Arrow or Teen Wolf without stressing out about the plot holes etc. (esp on those particular shows that are so tightly plotted out for 2 or 3 years where every dense point comes to mean something eventually.) Its a weird feeling these days. I'm glad you and your friends can enjoy Lost Girl that way.
Suzanne Metaxas
423. SuzyM
I see Lauren's deFaeing the Morrigan as a huge plot hole. If the Fae will kill someone just for knowing they exist do you really think they will not hunt down and kill someone who can make them human? Really think the writers didn't think that one through.
424. stacymd2
Well, well, well! Just saw comment # 416. This is great news. It looks like my favorite H&H blogger will be getting a T-shirt to go with her vagina necklace this Christmas.

If Orphan Black also puts out merchandise someone will make out like a bandit on December 25th.

Lost Girl wouldn't put out merch for a character that isn't returning so... squee!
Suzanne Metaxas
425. SuzyM
Funny I didn't see the necklace :) Thought they said it would be for sale
426. TheGardner
So after 4 seasons some genius decided to print a logo on a t-shirt and sell it on the internet, wow. The only thing I like besides the beer stein and shot glass is the Team Dyson baseball style t-shirt. I won't be buying it for obvious reasons, but should they create one with "Lost Girl" on it, I might reconsider.

@whiskeywhite - Although I did enjoy the overall arc, I'm with you on the lack of desire for a S4 rewatch. At least for right now, maybe in a few months. The sex scenes this season were just off. The two DyBo scenes you have one trying to recreate former glory and falling flat, and the other Bo is using him to escape, refuses to look at him and it is so empty they don't finish. The Bo/Dyson/Flora/Lauren was just a way for TPTB to have a B/L/D threesome and get away with it(which EA confirmed in her post mortem interview). Then finally the Crystal/Lauren scene; at face value it was a half-drunk one night stand, at least it was nice to see Lauren having fun. So like I said, not much to enjoy and certainly not a main reason to watch the show.

As for Lauren de-faeing Evony, other than the delivery method, I have no objection to it. Lauren has been on her own and surviving in the fae world as such for some time. She knew from the start that she couldn't trust Evony. She used her scientific skillset to manufacture a failsafe for herself which she used when her lover's life was threatened by Evony. Evony is by definition a monster; the woman kills without remorse and considers others only in the context of what they can do for her.

And @whiskey we agree that Dyson flat out lied to Bo in 3x04. Of course there were feelings involved, she's his 'mate for life'. I have problems with that scene for two reasons: 1. We are supposed to believe that Bo, who spent 10 years killing her human lovers, is going to starve herself and risk Lauren's life like that, um no. 2. Dyson comes off as opportunistic and manipulative. He lies to her and convinces her that he is her only option when that is not the case. Tamsin was right outside and failing that he could have given her a boost until they found someone else. But Dyson wanted to be the hero with the added bonus of getting to fuck her.
427. drusilla_doll
To this very day, I thank my lucky stars that there is at least one place I can come to which doesn't worship at the altar of Saint Lauren and doesn't think Dyson is a sexist, patriarchal, misogynistic pig worthy of castration.

However, I do feel the need to point out that I adore ZP. I think she's a talented and lovely actress, fully deserving of the devotion some fans give her.

Still, I dislike her character immensely. I have since season one and not just for shipping reasons. I hate what the writers have done to a potentially interesting complex character.

I was actually excited by what Lauren was initially doing this season. If she had taken back her agency and start to work towards her own agenda as a formerly enslaved human who wanted pay back, I could have gotten behind it - t0 some extent. But instead the writers had her negate all of her development and agency to make it ALL ABOUT her love for BO even though it didn't make canonical sense. Which rankled so much I wanted to throw something at my monitor. If Lauren had acknowledged her under-handed tactics in attacking Evony who had shown her respect and allowed her to enjoy freedoms she'd never gotten with The Ash, I would have respected her. If she'd justified her actions with her loathing for all Fae and drawn a moral line, stating she would never allow humans to be subjugated again by the Fae, I would have cheered. But instead we get Lauren being portrayed, yet again, as a deceitful betrayer, who hardly ever accepts her own culpability and who is always put into dangerous situations again in order to make her more a martyr than an architect of her own misfortune. She's become the world's best Mary Sue fan fic character and that offends me. Why? Because she had the potential to be so much more, to be a very REAL foil and counter-point to Bo's current YAY FAE sensibilities. As far as I am concerned, the writers have squandered opportunities for character depth in favor of cheap shipping fan-service and lame 'gotcha' plot swerves .
Susan White
428. whiskeywhite
Kiersten, thanks for the link to the 4.08 recap. I had been looking for it under 'TV Love'. But this time it's not categorized there -- just under 'Lost Girl'. Duh, Whiskey.
429. Stacymd2
Tamsin's 1st appearance on LG was 302. She and Dyson were not friends and she did not know or like Bo. Dyson offering up her body for Bo to sexually feed off of would have been misogynistic and offensive. So, Tamsin was not a viable option.

Dyson manipulating Bo, a succubus (who uses her sex based powers for free pizza), into sex is comical. D&B have a long history of sex without strings--supposedly. They have always had feelings for each other even when they were friends with benefits. When ever two former lovers with lingering issues have sex there will always be some feelings.

When Dyson said, "look, there are no strings. No feelings," he meant IMHO, that this time would be no different than the numerous times they had sexual healing in the past. (S1).

He was not going to expect anything or demand anything from her after. It was healing sex, nothing more. Again, Dyson doesn't owe Bo his thoughts or feelings. She was in a relationship. Their one time healing sex would not (& did not) matter or have feelings--as in relationship expectations--attached.

Bo is not a weak flower that needs to be saved or protected from Dyson. His words were, "It's either me or an ambulance." Dyson got her to realize she is a succubus. A starving succubus. She was bleeding internally and needed to feed or die. Bo stopped resisting this and took him up on his offer. I think a part of her wanted to have sex with Dyson. Bo knew by this point how to control her feeding. We know she has a phone list of people she could call. She didn't take a little kiss feed to tide her over until she found someone else. She strips Dyson of his shirt and chows down.

@drusilla_doll: Lost Girl's writers walked back everything about Wonder Lauren and B/L's issues from S3. In the end, there was no growth with the character. I suspect you will see yet another version of Wonder Lauren in S5.

I love ZP too. I can't say enough nice things about her. Everyone on this site has. ZP is beautiful, funny, a talented actress and a joy to see/ read in interviews. The ZP & KHR show is sweet and funny. You can tell they are genuine friends in real life. The entire Lost Girl cast seems fond of each other. I love hearing how KS & RS hang out.

I was re-reading Kiersten's lovely 301 & 303 recaps. Reading her recaps was better than bleaching my brain watching the episodes again. It is interesting to see again when and how the writers started rewriting Wonder Lauren (and having the other characters praise her) to fit into Bo's family instead of developing relationships slowly and organically as they did with Kenzi.
Suzanne Metaxas
430. SuzyM
@Stacymd2 you made so really good points about Dyson. I'm done trying to defend him to people with myopic views of his character. I have my opinion of what type of a man he is and I know it isn't going to change and I'm guessing there are certain other with their views planted firmly in cememt too :)

I wish the writers would get back to the characters of season one and start the developement all over again. I truly think we could end up with a better story. Hell they have retconed everything else so why not do that?
Susan White
431. whiskeywhite
Excellent point @Stacymd2:
Tamsin's 1st appearance on LG was 302. She and Dyson were not friends and she did not know or like Bo. Dyson offering up her body for Bo to sexually feed off of would have been misogynistic and offensive. So, Tamsin was not a viable option.
I had forgotten that Bo and Tamsin were not friends at that point. I was going to take a slightly different tack.

I agree with @TheGardner that the whole concept of 'succubus starving herself to death in order to be monogamous with a human' was ludicrous (even though it has been persuasively argued that this is Bo's naivete -- she tried monomgamy with Dyson, which might have been possible, now she's trying it with Lauren where it is not). But I come dangerously close to setting off my 'anti succubus-monogamy rant button' and I believe I may have foolishly promised to lay that down. So we have to accept that this is the plot whether we like it or not. And Dyson can't be blamed for her decision; he tried to talk her out of it several times starting in 1.12.

So what option does he have? Bo clearly desperately needs to feed. Even if @Stacymd's point were not the situation, what is he supposed to do? @TheGardner suggests: Tamsin was right outside and failing that he could have given her a boost until they found someone else. So he's supposed to tell her: "Here have a little sex snack from me to hold you and I'll go out and try to talk Tamsin or someone else into having sex with you. That way you can be unfaithful to your lover with two people rather than just one -- an ex-lover who is no threat to your relationship and a new one who might be." I know, the monogamy thing is a crock. But them's the plot cards we were dealt.
Susan White
432. whiskeywhite
We talk a lot about plot holes here. I (blush) watch Beauty and the Beast. They have plot craters. You just have to take the relaxed attitude mentioned above or go nuts. At the end of season 1, Catherine's detective partner Tess was in love and sleeping with her married boss. At the beginning of season 2, he is suddenly gone. A brief explanation that he was fired for screwing up, and Tess sheds nary a tear. Some love.

Also at the close of season 1, Vincent's sidekick J.T. is "building a life" with the head of the bio-chem department where he teaches. At the beginning of season 2, she is just gone, MIA, no explanation at all. He never mentions her. Why these disappearances? So that, seemingly in response to fan demand, the two sidekicks can get together.

Wanna talk about bad science? Lauren is a model of scientific precision next to these folks. Vincent and other beasts are that way because their DNA has been altered. It is genetic. At the end of season 1, an enemy beast, Gabe Lowan, is shot twice in the chest and apparently killed. As season 2 opens, we learn that he has been resuscitated, his heart restarted, and lo and behold he is no longer a beast. "The beast in him has died" and a lovely human survives, now dedicated to saving Vincent and helping Catherine. OK then. Why? Because they wanted to have a triangle with Vincent, Catherine and Gabe (played by the supremely gorgeous Sendhil Ramamurthy).

Last week they saved an innocent person (played by Clé Bennett, the first Ash) who had been beastified with beast DNA injections. He suffocates and is apparently dead dead. Vincent resuscitates him using CPR. He not only survives but his blood is now "free of beast DNA" according to J.T. Another miracle of science.

You think Bo and Lauren are on again off again? The BATB triangle has dominated season 2 so far as Catherine and Vincent break up and Gabe and Catherine get together. Vincent supports their relationship because he believes Catherine deserves to be happy and Gabe can give her that while he cannot. But Catherine and Vincent continue as awfully close friends.

So mister nice guy Gabe, who has been very, very patient, finally puts his foot down and demands that Catherine decide. "Are you with me or with him?" "I'm with you," says Catherine firmly. She immediately goes to tell Vincent that he must be out of her life, he agrees wholeheartedly, and within a minute they are kissing and he's carrying her to the bedroom (something which Dyson never does with Bo, by the way). So much for definitive breakups and commitments. Is this the end for Gabe? We'll see.

I think I promised not to bring up again the ideology of romance in popular culture. So I won't.
433. drusilla_doll
BATB graced our screens 23 years ago. I think you've managed to make me realise that the Lost Girl writers are well behind the times in terms of writing believable romance and making genre stories work in a cohesive, consistent way. We have had TV shows since then who HAVE hit the mark better in terms of the general portrayal of women, romance and a compelling, plausible narrative. We shouldn't excuse what's sub par because it's happened before. We should expect *more*, because shows today are capable of achieving more if they truly want to.
434. TheGardner
@whiskeywhite- When I was talking about Dyson giving her a chi boost I wasn't talking about sex. She could have taken enough chi from him without even really kissing him to hold her over until she found someone to heal bang. The question of infidelity is not the issue, nor was this dalliance the reason Bo and Lauren broke-up. The problem is there would never be any such thing as 'just sex' between them because he is in love with her. A fact he withholds to get her to go along with it. As for Tamsin, considering she let Bo feed off her two episodes later, suggests that she would be willing to help. Sure she might bitch and moan about it, but she would still do it.

I don't think Dyson is necessarily a bad guy here, Bo was being reckless and stupid. He has to be the hero, so he posits himself in that role, albiet manipulative. Not that any of it matters anyways, the whole scenario was contrived to facilitate a DyBo hook-up. And in all fairness if the roles had been reversed, the DyBo fans would be saying the same or worse about Lauren.
Suzanne Metaxas
435. SuzyM
There are just some fans that will never be happy with what Dyson or any other man on the show does and that is OK because that is their prerogative.

I myself feel lucky to have a man in my life that is a little like the Dyson character, so therefore I like Dyson a lot. There are times when I'd like to slap him up side of his head but not when he talked Bo into feeding off him. He knows her well enough to know that he had to lie to her because of her stubbornness, not because he was taking advantage of her. Quite the contrary, he knew it would be painful for him because she wasn’t going to love him and give him what he craves most, her love, but just heal her body. Dyson loves Bo enough that he is willing to sacrifice anything for her; and that is not a bad or duplicitous thing.

As to Lauren feeding Bo in that instance, if she were able to do so without dying then more power to her. I for one don't want to see Bo die and don't really care who she feeds off of to stay healthy. It is the writers and how they write Lauren that makes most fans dislike her. Were she written differently I think she would be liked by all. I never really loved her character but I didn't hate her until the writers started making her Super Doc, they just made the character ridiculous and unlovable and that was a shame, Lauren could have been so much more.
Susan White
436. whiskeywhite
Yah, @drusilla_doll, I remember watching and loving the original BATB on TV. The arrival of this new series kindled my interest in going back to watch the original. I was praying I wouldn't be disappointed and I wasn't. I bought myself the DVDs and wallowed in the romantic world of "love (not sex and not even sexual love) conquers all." It was interesting that there was no sex whatsoever, they don't even kiss. All they do is hug. The closest they come is an imagined kiss in silhouette. I wonder why. It couldn't have been the mores of the time; kissing was certainly OK on TV. Was it the inter-species situation? Vincent was much more clearly animal in his looks and nature then, despite being deeply cultured.

Which reminds me. Has Bo ever been face-to-face with Dyson as a full-out wolf? I don't think so. Kenzi's seen him change completely but didn't interact with him in that state. I know we've discussed before whether he retains his human consciousness as a wolf. But could he be a tame wolf in the presence of someone he cares for?

In the new series Bitten, Clay -- one of the werewolves -- in his human form pats his former lover and fellow werewolf Elena while she's in her wolf form. After changing back she reacts angrily and threatens to take his arm off (or something similar, I can't quote her exactly), "if you ever pat me again like that" (she sees it as unwelcome physical contact apparently). In Twilight we see Bella interacting easily with Jacob while he's in his giant wolf state, leaning into his fur affectionately while he nuzzles her.

Can we see Dyson-wolf and Bo relaxing on the couch watching "Notting Hill" with Dyson's wolfie head in her lap and her petting him? Probably not, eh? :-)
Susan White
438. whiskeywhite
Thank you @JDKnight. Happy International Women's Day to you and to all.
Susan White
440. whiskeywhite
In the absence of Lost Girl, I just started watching Angel on Netflix. My goodness, he's adorable! I missed the "Buffy" phenomenon, so don't really know him from there. I feel a binge coming on.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
441. Kiersten
@whiskeywhite - it works better if you watch Buffy first. Not a necessity, but you'll be more invested and more things will make sense if you hit at least S1-3 of Buffy before Angel
443. Lurker
Kiersten just an FYI. Your episode recap for 4x08 does not come up in the Lost Girl tagged Section.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
444. Kiersten
@lurker can you be more specific? I just ckd the LG tag at the top of this discussion page & it is there.
445. TheGardner
@whiskeywhite- I could never get in to Angel, something about broody, emo guys just don't do it for me. ;-) But if nothing else watch S2 of Buffy because Angel evil is frickin' awesome!
446. Lurker
Hmmm this url was the one that did not have it
Kiersten Hallie Krum
447. Kiersten
@Lurker - it may be that E8 wasn't tagged the same/correct way. Go to the top of this post and click the red Lost Girl above the header. That'll take you to the full Lost Girl section. It's there.
Susan White
450. whiskeywhite
Thanks, Kiersten. I have seen some of the Buffy episodes and may go back and watch more after I finish this binge. I figure that a 5 seasons of Angel binge is enough right now to threaten my continued gainful employment.

@TheGardner, as with Dyson, here's where you and I disagree (amiably I hope as ever). ;-) I'm a sucker for Angel moping. He looks like he's on the verge of crying all the time. Yet he keeps on going. I just watched the episode where he gives up his mortality and therefore his chance of happiness with Buffy to protect her. Sound familiar? However, I do want to shout through the computer screen, "Stand up straight. Stop slouching!"
451. drusilla_doll
I often find Angel a source of amusement, they flesh him out a lot more, of course on his own show. David Boreanaz has great comic timing and the show wasn't afraid to mock him for his broody ways. Wesley is the character I completely fell in love with. I think Angel The Series was a fabulous show, every bit as good as Buffy but with more complex themes treated in a more mature manner, in my opinion. They really allowed the characters to evolve/change over time on that show.
452. jdknight
Looks as though Season 4 DVD is being released April /May 2014
453. jdknight
Is Kenzi really Clytie - a water nymph who turns into a sunflower after Appolo dies? That would explain the Cyclops '..sweet taste of nymph..' after kissing Kenzi
454. stacymd2
@jdknight: It would be funny if Kenzi was Fae, but didn't know it, the entire time before her death.

When Kenzi is brought back, I hope she returns as a Valkyrie. A water nymph would be cool too, as long as she is not tied to being around water.
Suzanne Metaxas
455. SuzyM
Kenzie can't be Fae, Dyson would have noticed by now. And the Doc has tested her and knows she is human. To have her be Fae at this point in the story would take a whole lot of retconing and I've had enough of that from this show!
456. stacymd2
@SuzyM: You are right. I just thought it would be funny if Kenzi was like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. I do hope Kenzi returns Fae, any type will do. Scratch that...I don't want her to be a Coga -- or a Pigman. Those aren't cute.

FYI...Lost Girl won the Fan Choice Award for Favorite Canadian Show at the Canadian Screen Awards (CSAs). ZP won a fan choice award too for favorite screen star.

Also at the CSAs, The Shaw Media Award for Best Dramatic Series went to the wonderful Orphan Black, which collected a total of 10 CSAs including Best Performance by an Actress in a Dramatic Role for the amazing Tatiana Maslany.

I can't wait for Orphan Black's return.
457. JDKnight
SuzyM. I don't know - he did not notice that Inari had taken her place. Remember Kenzi is very young and trickster fae are very good at disguising themselves as human. We do not know if Dyson and Lauren know what Kenzi is - if she is fae they ay have their own reasons for not revealing the fact. The sunflower clue apart there are other clues: the enigmatic smile from Trick the first time he saw her, her remarkable healing powers - when cut across the face by the headless swordsman and when she cut herself when trying to persuade Trick to save Bo with her blood. The amount of blood she lost in the Garuda episode would have killed a mere human. Her extra quick reaction times such as when she shot the berserker and the speed with which she got unnoticed behind the Garuda. The Cyclops called her a nymph. The Gleve's daughter thought she was fae. Many of the fae treat her like a child and not as a despised human. She knows far more than a person who has lived on the streets from the age of 15 would. She has the ability to make people dote on her. laughlan said to her 'you are tardy little girl'. The Morrigan did not treat her as a human, but as a child, during the Nate negotiations. She is able to access vast amounts of information. Bo sends her into places where humans would not be able to go. She was undeniably fae after her visitto the Norn. She herself has said that she is hardly human. A human body would have been vaporized when she closed the Helgate.Daphne was not surprized to see her in the bathtub after the episode with Baba Yaga.

When she returns I agree with Stacymd2 and hope she comes back as a Valkyrie. One thing she will not be is human as her body at he cellular level and her mind will have been changed by the trauma. I hope that this time she is physically stronger. Up to now she has survived by using her mental powers but she no longer believes that is enough. The enod season 3 nd the hole of season 4 appears to have been leading up to Kenzi becoming indisputably Fae so that she will no longer be 'weak and a liability'

Trick has a lot to answer for - he continuously denigrates both Tamsin and Kenzi. He is an unmitigated snob - he looks down upon these 2 and Dyson because he considers them to be mere peasants even though he is quite fond of them but they will 'never be one of us' - ie aristocrats> it will e interesting to see what eventually happens to him and whether he will pay for his past misdeeds. I am pretty sure that he has his daughter locked up in a cell underneath the Dal
458. TheUberFan
Well unless they completely retcon Kenzi's story, she is human. Trick gets Kenzi to talk to the phoenix bird woman who no fae can see...only humans.

Also, in the body swapping episode, the reason Lauren and Kenzi could leave the Dal was because they were human and the trap was only set for fae.
459. JDKnight
The trap turned the powers back on the owner so Dyson could probably have left anyway as a wolf. Tricksters can convince other fae that they are human. Anyway, I doubt that we will ever know. One thing is for sure and that is if Kenzi comes back she will not be human. I hope she will be a Valkyrie. If she does maybe lead to a spinoff series about them as there will then be 3 Valkyries in the show and Xenia has not been around for a long time so if the are looking to make $$$
Suzanne Metaxas
460. SuzyM
No Fae could leave the Dal, if Dyson tried it would have attacked him like a wolf. Kenzi was not Fae, and Jay Firestone said it more than once when questioned at ComicCons. Jay stated she was human and they felt that they didn't want to turn her character Fae, so don't know that she will come back as a Fae.
461. JDKnight
460.suzyM If that is true then Kenzi will not be coming back. nobody could be dead for days/weeks/months and still be human. Kenzi herself has said that she has to be Fae in order to survive
Kiersten Hallie Krum
462. Kiersten
I think Kenzi *is* dead for real. Whatever Tamsin saw in Valhalla was enough for her to leave Kenzi there. Kenzi is absolutely 100% human. All the allusions otherwise were to showcase how special a human she was, that so many could be amazed she was able to do all she did without being Fae, that she was something special. That could be change, Lord knows this show loves to ignore its canon every chance it gets, but I still think it more likely she is gone for good.

That said, given the title of the 2-parter season premiere is "Like Hell", I do think Bo is going to go to get Kenzi and Ksenia Solo may, in fact, be in those episodes, but I think that'll be a guest spot, not a full return, and I think ultimately she'll stay where she is and Bo will fail.
Suzanne Metaxas
463. SuzyM
Kiersten I hope and pray you are wrong about Kenzi being gone. :( Ksenia really contributes to the quality of the show, without her the show is going to be flat.
464. lonewolf
Aloha everyone, just got back yesterday from finishing up my Hawaiian bucket list. Come the end of the summer sometime, my next ticket will be one way.

I didn't think there would be so many more comments on here. A few from doccubus fans even. It seems that some or at least one of the doccubus worshippers were on here just to let all the rest of their ilk to stay away because we're all doccubus haters on here. I'm not a hater as are most everyone on here isn't. But I think we all definitely agree that DL should be taken down a notch or two. And what did she mean when Bo told her about the fae may go after her because of her ability to take away fae powers. "Let them try"she says. What, as long as she's Bo's lover she's untouchable?

@Kiersten, so much doom and gloom, Kenzi gone for good? I think you threw a lot of people into a state of denial with that, myself included. Do you have any knowledge about any upcoming projects for Ksenia Solo that you're not telling us. ;) If she is gone for good then they will have to bring in a new character with the appeal that Kenzi had, which may be a difficult thing to do.

If Bo does bring Kenzi back sucessfully, will she be fae or still human. What will her relationship with Bo be like. Will it change in any significant way. Should she come back she will definitely not be the same Kenzi we knew before.

There are a few on here who like to see her come back as a valkyrie. That would be cool, but I'd like to see her come back as a different kind of fae. I'd actually like to see her come back and become the new morrigan. Then she and Ryan Lambert could get together. ;) The thought of that happening would give me nightmares. I wonder how Bo would react to that, tho.

There has been a question I've had running thru my mind occasionally. This has to do with how fae age. We know Dyson is what, 1200 years old. But he looks like he's in his 50's....just kidding ladies, more like his early 40's. So he's 1200 yrs. old and looks like he's 40 something, but during the fae day, la shoshain, Shaun pointed out to Kenzi some old man who looked like he was pushing 70 and said he was only 900 yrs. old. So what's up with that, I wonder.

@JDKnight, you mention valkyries and Xena in the same sentence. If Kenzi were to come back as a valkyrie with a Xenaesque attitude she would be an instigative type, I think. A dark fae valkyrie, we had one before in Tamsin, why not have one again.

@stacymd2, I cannot say Congratulations! loud enough for Tatiana Maslany, she is indeed a truly amazing actress. And Orphan Black may have just replaced Lost Girl as my favorite show. This first season grabbed me within the first five minutes of the first episode. And I have @Kiersten to thank for recommending the show, Thank you @Kiersten for that! Also, @stacymd2 I can't wait for the next season to get here. And if someone were to merchandise anything from Orphan Black I would get two things, one would be a t-shirt with Felix's portrait of Cosima, my favorite character. A stoner who is working towards her doctorate, and the glasses just get me going. But, if they're all genetic identicals, why does she wear glasses. And the other thing would be a Dr. Leeky bobble head.

And I do hope Cosima gets cured from whatever is ailing her. I actually care more about what happens to her more than I do Kenzi. Also, if I read the credits right there are 4-5 different writers for different episodes and a couple of different directors. I wonder how many episodes they'll have this upcoming season.

Anyways, I just thought I'd chime in. I had decided when I left for my vacation that I would probably not come back on here. So much for that.
Nadine Robb
465. cmm
@Kiersten Well there goes my reason to watch. TATA LG!
466. Guest
Just so every one knows Zoie Palmer always wins because her crazy fans
cheat when they vote. There is some kind of thing that you can install
on your computer that allows you to vote hundreds of times if not
thousands. They know they can't legitimately so they cheat.
467. stacymd2
@Kiersten: I do hope you are wrong about KS returning to Lost Girl. KS & KHR are the only reasons why I continued to watch for the past two seasons.

I'm still considering whether to watch S5 or not. Right now I'm heavily leaning to not. I'm not interested in seeing: Doccubus reflux redux; The Extraordinary Life of Wonder Lauren, Terrorist-Super Genius-All Knowing Expert-Slave-Badass Damsel-Scientist, M.D. and her majestic vagina serum; Dyson singing choir in the Church of Wonder Lauren; or Tamsin pining for Bo for another season.

I think Season 5 will be Lost Girl's last. AS & ZP seemed to hint that Lost Girl was ending at the CSAs. EA wrecked havoc so she could bail. There is no explaination for how bad Season 4 turned out.

There are many great genre programs out right now that put Lost Girl to shame. Orphan Black. Bitten. Sleepy Hollow. Supernatural. Vikings. Agents of Shield. I've re-watched Seasons 1 and 2 many times. Last night I couldn't suffer through the back half of 410. I flipped the channel. The crappy writing is more annoying to watch a 2nd time around.

Another season has come and gone and we still haven't seen Bo's father. Dyson didn't get a story arc, again. Who knew Aife & the Garuda would be Lost Girl's greatest Big Bads?

@LoneWolf: I hope you had a marvelous trip. You bring up an excellent point about Cosmia wearing glasses.

@JDKnight: I agree. If Kenzi does come back then TPTB can't return her as a human. It would make no sense--not that that has ever stopped them before.

FYI...Veep (HBO) returns April 6th. Julia Louis-Dreyfus is so funny.
468. Lurker
@Guest the CSA's voting was done by submitting an electronic voting form. The other method you mention is adding a cache cleaner but I've seen other fandoms use this method.
470. lonewolf
I wonder, was there a power play of sorts going on behind the scenes after S1 that caused GM, JF and the original creator of the show, whose name I cannot remember, to leave. I had said before that S2 pretty much kept the shows popularity going because of the quick rise of a fan base in S1. From there it went slowly downhill in S3 and then in S4 it almost self destructed. I'm going to watch the first few episodes of S5 and then I'll decide whether it'll be worth watching the whole season.
But, as it stands right now, Sarah Manning, Alison Hendrix and Cosima (why no last name?) are my new "Lost Girls".
Nadine Robb
471. cmm
Wooow people are alive on here...@lonewolf. I'm not sure but it wouldn't surprise me.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
472. Kiersten
We're always alive @cmm. Sometimes we're the living dead, but we're here
474. stacymd2
Hi gals and guys! I think KS/Kenzi might be in Season 5, or at least part of Season 5, based on this 3/28/14 interview where the cast is asked if they are filming S5 yet. starrymag (dot) com/?p=2879

I don't know how to post links here, but you can Google starrymag (dot) com and check it out.

FYI...GoT & Veep airs 4/6. OB airs 4/19. (It's not long now!) Continuum premiered yesterday.
476. Tuco
What has happened to this show? It use to be about Bo and Kenzi running a P.I firm for the Fae. Dyson use to be a full-time cop giving Bo some cases as well. Each episode was based on this concept. It made the series.

Now it's about Bo! That it. Every story line revolves around her. The Black Queen to the Wanderer.

What happened to the original writers? Are they on some LSD trip in Canada or something?
Suzanne Metaxas
477. SuzyM
Hi Tuco, unfortunately the original writers left and the show went to hell in a hand basket. Hopefully Season 5 will be better. There has been a shakeup in the writers’ room again; all we can do is pray it is for the better.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
478. Kiersten
Hi Tuco - thanks for leaving a comment!

The original creator and showrunner, Michelle Lovretta, and the two main writers left Lost Girl after season one. The two writers are now running the excellent Orphan Black. After they left, the show turned from an Urban Fantasy show about a succubus and her human friend solving PI cases and uncovering the world of the Fae assisted by the wolf shifter cop and sometimes lover and has devolved into the campy, often senseless, occassionally insulting, shock for shock's sake hot mess it is now.

Emily Andras, who was the showrunner of Lost Girl for S3 & S4 is now doing other projects but she is still writing scripts for S5 of Lost Girl. Michael Grassi who was a writer and producer of Lost Girl for S3 & S4 is now executive producer and showrunner with Vanessa Paresi, Andras' protegee, promoted from producer to executive producer. So while Andras is no longer running day to day things, the writers room is essentially filled with the same people in different roles. It remains to be seen whether this means we'll see any improvement in S5 due to these changes
479. Tuco
Thanks Kiersten for the info about the writers.

I would have thought given this info about the writers that season two would have bombed as well. But I actually liked season two. I think the show changed directions in seaon three. Don't get me wrong, season three was okay not the best just an okay. This season, I would rather forget entirely. It never happened. It was just a ploy from some evil T.V. Executive! He has been found by the Light Fae and was disposed of properly. Season five or should I say the real season four will return back on track with Bo and Kenzi solving cases again. If not, I will no longer watch this degraded, stupid and useless show.
480. BoisinlovewithLauren
@Guest Zoie Palmer won the CSA Fan Fave Award because she has many, many fans not because they cheated...she got over 20,000 votes to be is rude for you to say that her fans are crazy and cheated for her to win.
481. lonewolf
@Tuco, S3&4 probably would have been better if they had been in that state of mind. Try reading Tolkien, Castaneda, or Dan Millman while in that state of mind. Imagination and reality tend to blend somewhat. And that's what they needed to do, it's what they need to do to save the show. Especially with the science. But it will never be the same show that so many people fell in love with. I hope they make a liar out of me, tho.
@SuzyM, I don't think there is a handbasket big enough to hold the mess that EA created.
@Kiersten, I'm surprised to know that EA will be one of the writers for S5, Lets hope Michael Grassi and Vanessa Paresi can keep her on track. She has to be under a contract that has not expired yet for her to still be there.
Eight more days to OB!! I'm trying not to count the days, it seems to take longer for the big day to arrive.
Coming back to Lost Girl, all things considered, for the show to have a five season run isn't too bad. The final judgment for me will come when and how they the end the series. Some shows end with class and style and others are one big dud. Let's hope they end LG with the former and not the latter.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
482. Kiersten
Hey gang. The full recap for the finale is now up.

Head on over there for more discussion on Lost Girl S4.
483. TrueComment
The character Kenzi is self obsessed and over possessive bitch.
484. Katelyn C
Man I wish I would've found this site sooner I'm glad it allows opposing opinions on here, because most sites do not. I was also wondering if anyone had noticed what looks like the pyrripus on the gate where Tamsin is found at by Dyson. I think there is potential for season 5 to be great but based on previous blunders I'm not so sure it will be. I agree with a lot of people on here that Lauren is just kind of inconsistent lately. I've honestly kind of given up on her character. I started watching the show when I was twelve and fell in love with it because of the friendships and bonds that formed in season 1 & 2. I never really liked the romantic relationships. So I was really sad when the show basically just spiraled down into this weird sex fest. I just really want the benzi friendship back because I liked the fact that it showed this incredible bond between two strangers who basically become sisters. Then they ruin it by having Bo completely ignore her in season 3 & 4. Then they even kill off Kenzi and Hale then at the same time I had to deal with being human ending I was pretty upset to say the least. Let's just hope we can get back the Lost Girl we all fell in love with.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
485. Kiersten
Hey Katelyn C! Welcome to H&H! I'm so glad you found us! Be sure to come back for the recaps for S5 of Lost Girl...just as soon as it's announced when that will be!
487. halker
the ep 13 just killed me at end , one of the most tragedic moment after "kenzi hitting bo that she wanted to say yes" was that dyson controll him self and let kenzi go when she walked in front of the blood king and he yelled i felt that wolf anger in my bons ,

but i think in season 5 bo sacrfice her soul to bring kenzi and become the main villain by the power of SHOE as tamsin said.

i loved mostly all the charachters specially vex , kenzi and trick

without vex bk was going to change the history (grouda) and i very wanted to see more vex and kenzi moment , death of hale was kinda both kenzy and bo fault but in the end great ending it was likly to burial at sea ending , and im counting days for season 5 and see the pattern of bring solo in show.
488. halker
i have to add that levithan promised bo that they will meet soon and one who she loved very much will die soon so she has to go to levithan again i guess.
489. razad
Why is it they always killing off the only black dude in these TV shows!
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