Feb 10 2014 11:52am

Lost Girl Season 4, Episode 12 Discussion: Baby’s in Black

Kenzi in Lost Girl 4x12Note: This is an episode discussion post, so there will of course be MAJOR SPOILERS for last night's episode (on Showcase in Canada) in the comments. Remember, Canada is several weeks ahead; for recaps of Lost Girl Season 4 as it airs on SyFy in the U.S., be sure to check out Kiersten Hallie Krum's weekly Season 4 recaps for episodes 4x01, 4x02, 4x034x04, and beyond.

How is everyone reacting to last week's mind-blowing events? What begins?!? Who's beginning? Discuss!

Here's the blurb for Lost Girl, Season 4, Episode 12,  “Origin”:

Bo is reluctant to comply with her role in a prophecy foretold by an order of Knights, until advice from a surprising source helps her make a difficult decision.

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Nadine Robb
1. cmm
Hale's funeral should of been longer. Really bugged me that Hale died and Trick and Lauren missed it. Granted Trick had a reason but still, it's a death of a close friend. The Lauren/Evony part. I am still bothered that Lauren has the power to make a fae and make a fae human. It shouldn't exist in terms of the shows mythos cause it disregards everything the show said about fae and humans in season 1. I think the next step in order to correct this is they should have a fae extract the memory of that from her brain, it's only fair. No one should have that power. Lauren's revelation that she did this all for Bo. I can't say I blame Bo for chewing her out. In what world did she think that Bo would catch on to her plan? She should know that from previous instances that Bo is not too good with reading between the lines. Although in Bo's defense she was dead serious when she said that she wanted to end things. Coupled with her rejection of her last season why would she think otherwise? I'm also wondering if her de'faecation of Evony was part of the actual plan or was it something she did out of spite? She seemed miffed when she left Bo's place after Bo rejected her. I really hope they do not reunite these two. They are toxic for each other.

Bo's i'm only marrying you too end your curse. Really??? Few episodes they had her say she was in love with him and that he was the one. Also the scene where the horse thingy was rising, both Rainer and Bo have hand marks?!?!? Since when?!?! I thought it was only Bo that had the handprint?

On to Dyson. I'm guess what Massimo told him was that he had the origin seed? That's why he didn't kill him. But you think there would be more on that part of the plot. He just takes him into custody and that's it, until Vex frees him. What a waste. Also, since Massimo got the seed you have to wonder why Trick didn't guard it like he did his blood? He seemed rather lax when it came to it's protection.

The women of the horse. What sort of fae are they? Do they transform into centaur like creatures? Or are they just some freakish fae cult? So the horse dude is Bo's father. He was the one she spoke of during season 2. Who saved her from those witches and who put her on the train. Hallelujah a connection. At least they managed to eliminate those plot points.

Now onto Kenzi. I felt really bad for her this episode. She was rejected by everybody. Nobody wanted to avenge Hale in her eyes. Except maybe Dyson. On the positive side at least Bo noticed Kenzi this time and seemed genuinly interested in helping her out. I do think that Kenzi has a role in the prophecy. I think it's not written yet as history is just catching up to the present with Rainer's reintroduction to the fae world. I wouldn't be surprised if next episode it says something about the friend of the succubus and Kenzi turns up to assist her somehow.
2. Bore-mudaTriangle
Ugh, the high amount of #Doccubus4ever, "yay wonder Lauren" and "what she did was right!" on the Showcase blog is giving me a major headache. They say non-Doccubus shippers are bias, yet so are they. Sometimes I wonder if ZP has some crazy power to make people (fans) obsess over her to an extreme.
3. drusilla_doll
Maybe we shouldn't take the Closed Caption whisper as canon then. Because it makes more sense if Massimo said something like: "Only I know where the seed is." or "I have possession of the seed."
4. Darthfaeder
Well was going to complain about the lack of Tamsin again, but I'm starting to get on my own nerves with that mantra. EA once again
lied by promising Taminpollooza in the last 3 episodes when so far
it's only been 1 out of 2 episodes of Tamsinpollooza with only 1 episode
left to go, so I guess we'll see? Anyways moving on .Uggg the LG tumblr
is so nausiating today. People practically bowing down at the throne of
Lauren, and acting as if turning the Morrigan into a human is going to help Bo save the Fae and her family. I give Lauren the credit she deserves, because she had done some good things, but yeah not at all impressed with turning the Morrigan into a human. One less Fae to fight again Bo's crazy ass Horse daddy. I find it amusing that EA decided to give Lauren the chance to appeal to Bo by telling her that everything she has done has been for Bo. It was a sweet moment with one of those doccubus eye stares that EA uses to keep the doccubus shippers in line, happy, and watching the show. Unfortunetly in the end she'll disappoint them, and string them along just like she does with everyone else.
5. EvonyFleurette
Hi!! I am a fan who really loves Lauren (and enjoyed her relationship with Bo too), but I don't feel conected to the doccubus-extremists (to say it somehow) and I LOVE Dyson a lot as a character (I think his scenes with Bo are hot, but I don't like them together since S3, I don't think Bo deserves the guy actually, she's been so unfair to him). Anyway, as I said I really love Lauren and Zoie Palmer and I think that many times some people are too harsh on her and missinterpret everything she does (don't get me wrong, doccubus fans are very unfair to Dyson too and I hate it), I'm just sad that the show runners somehow divided the fandom. Anyway, as I said, I like Lauren a lot but this time I really have to call her on her shit.

I thought the Lauren/Evony story could be very interesting, I thought it'd be cool if they really fell for each other so we could see a "human side" of The Morrigan (never expected to see it literally lol), and a conflict of interests with Lauren (betraying someone she really likes). ZP and EV work very well together (they actually have more chemistry than Bo/Lauren although I'm not sure if it is because of the way the writters have constructed "BoLo's" relationship), and it would've been awesome if they had explored that. Or as Kiersten said in another post, it would've been cool if Lauren had taken Evony's power and became leader of the dark fae. Or even falling for Evony and becoming dark.

But anyway, they chose to do this spybang thing (for a change -and I' m being sarcastic here of course), and it could have been funny if they had done it other wise. Of course the Morrigan was funny with the icci nose, and the sweat and everything, but I also saw a very humiliated "human" being and I didn't like that at all. I didn't like Lauren mocking at her after going "down there " (she could've done it other wise, and I would have loved to see a sex scene between them because they have sparks, but not this way), and I certanly didn't like the punch. And I didn't like that when she was bleeding, she took her blood like nothing.

The Morrigan deserved that? I'm sure she did, she isn't a little angel of course, but the thing about the "good guys" is that they win but they don't have the need to humiliate. And this time is diferent than the time Bo made the picture, that was funny, but this thing... it was beyond the line. IMO.

I may be overreacting, maybe because I like Lauren's character so much and I think they have made a great job with her this season so far, but I was VERY disapointed. And having Bo being an a-hole this season, Kenzi and Dyson are going to be the only likeable characters if they continue like this.

PS I hope Emmanuelle Vaugier stays for Season 5 and they explore her as a human, The Morrigan is one of the best recurring roles in the show IMO, she should get more screentime.
marcela e
6. crayonbreaky
Copying this from my comment on SC.
Lauren's character is becoming ridiculous! Are the writers trying to make her look stupid? she just had to stay and gloat about her accomplishments in front of Evony? Are you serious? she could have done it in a more subtle way and gotten the hell out of dodge before Evony knew what hit her. But nope, Lauren is just too badass -_- ? And then she comes back to the bedroom, WHY? and she finds Evony alone with Massimo, why hasn't Evony gotten her guards to kill Lauren? This is why Lauren's character is becoming ridiculous, she keeps walking around the fae world like hot shit and doesn't get killed? how? she's not even claimed by any of them unlike Kenzi (was). Her skills to take away fae abilities etc. would make her seem like she's powerful but she really isn't, she could be squashed like a fly in a second! She needs time in laboratories funded by someone who's more powerful than her to do what she needs to do. The only way she would be close to threatening is if she had an army of supporters, perhaps a human organization/military? but that was already killed in s3. OR she becomes fae herself.

Also, are we supposed to believe that in this fantasy world with vast amount of fae abilities, they keep making the fae dependent on Lauren? there can't be a fae that absorbs knowledge and could easily take everything Lauren knows? her character is the biggest fan service of them all. And it's funny that Lauren fans bash the writers since I think they should be thanking them. If it were to be believable, she should have died during season 2 or 3.
7. onceinabluemoon
I don't mean to offend, but why is all of this hating on Lauren necessary? I mean really. Instead of this being a Lost girl Episode discussion it has been the I hate Lauren and she's so horrible discussion. Showcase has been the same. I am so tired of and over it because it has nothing to do with the plot or progression of the show. It's just griping now. I miss the old Lost Girl where we had a team with all the characters. In the end they all helped each other and had special abilities to work together. Which is why I have enjoyed each and every character. I want that team back together. So many other things happened this episode.

We finally know who Bo's father is, and accoridng to the Loop interview with EA it doesn't seem like it will be a happy reunion. I think Bo's father may have set up Bo and Rainer to have a pairing in order to release him, which is why we saw the hand marks glow on both of them when the Pyripus was being released. Remember Tamsin said her employer would do anything to have the perfect mate. Maybe Bo's father set up Rainer as the perfect mate becasue he would be brought back by Bo and Rainer's bonding. Seems the introduction of Bo's father might be a set up to go into season five because I do think they will have another season. Bo may be some type of queen, but I'm wondering if maybe that's not the case, and how that will play out if she isn't. Also, I am so interested in what's going on with Kenzi. She used to have protection because she was claimed by Bo, and now that protection is gone. Speaking of, what the heck was up with Bo? It seemed very weird to me that she would just let Kenzi go so easily and not even chase after her. Then she just runs off and tries to figure out this prophecy thing to save Rainer. A prophecy will always be there. She could have taken five seconds to chase after her best friend, her "heart" and take care of her. I think I've missed the dynamic between Bo and Kenzi most, but I think it had to progress this way this season to get Kenzi to a place where she would leave Bo. I'm tired of the fae and what they're doing because I really want to see how the humans can fight. Bo chose humans in Season 1, but it seems she hasn't focused on that for a while and lost sight of who she wanted to be. This whole thing with Massimo has thrown me for a loop. Especially the relationship between him and Vex because I had no idea that was coming. I had an idea about him and Evony but Vex really threw me. I think Tim Rozon has done an amazing job and he's been an awesome villain. I have no idea what happened between him being in the office with Evony and Lauren to them being in some underground lair place. I feel like maybe something was cut because the transition was just so severe. I also think he may have already done something to Evony. The humans are finally coming into play in the fae world. We have Lauren defaeing people, Massimo a human having power and taking down some fae plus he ate the Una mens seed, so I don't know what's going on with that, and Kenzi who is now unclaimed but has a vengeance. I'm actually really excited to see where these stories go, and I'm hoping they have everyone come back together soon because I miss everyone being more closely knitted in their work and relationships.
8. stacymd2
Hi Guys! I just watched 412. I must say I disliked it more that I thought I would. Usually when you here dislike an epi I still like it overall. Not this time. 412 wasn't nearly as bad as 405, but the plot was a mess and the scenes jumped all over the place. Plus the entire Lauren eating out Evony/turning her human plot should have been cut. It was jumping scenes that made the plot holes and bad dialogue stick out more.

There were some things I loved:

Dyson's funeral speech was lovely. I liked: Hale was "an old soul with the optimism of one just born".
TPTB used Dyson's speech to explain why Hale returned to the cop shop after being impeached from Ash. He liked being a cop and being called a cop.
Kenzi's funeral dress was respectful but still in Kenzi's style. Were those chains or tassells hanging from the front?
The area where Hale's funeral was held was tranquil and pretty, so was the fountain.
Shame on Lost Girl for not bring Val or Hale's father on for a cameo.

I liked how Dyson tried to comfort Kenzi at the Dal. To be fair to Bo, she did try to comfort her, but the Knight and Bo's crazy life kept intruding.

Liked that Trick and Evony (Light & Dark) were working together. It was especially poignant since that was exactly what Hale was trying to accomplish. Sadly, Lauren messed everything up, again.

Vex's middle name is Chauncey (ha!).

Loved how Bo was talking to Dyson, at the Dal, about letting Kenzi down by not killing Massimo. She always turns to him for emotional comfort and talks to him about her fears.
Loved how Bo said to trust Dyson & that Dyson loves Kanzi, when they were in Massimo's lair.

It seems like Rainer is a good guy for now. I'm not sure how I really feel about that. I love Kyle S. I don't want him with Bo because of Dyson, but I don't see Lost Girl's Powers That Be putting B/D together any time soon. If the writers put Dyson with someone in Season 5 I would be OK with RainBo for now. We'll see!

Any time Doccubus says that Dyson is being pathetic for loving Bo and his "wolves mate for life" thing makes him a prisoner or some other imbecility, I'll just point to this episode. THANK YOU Lost Girl Powers that Be for 412! Lauren does everything (and anything) for Bo...join the Dark Fae, spybang, put anti-Fae serum on her vag, whatever.

Lauren & Evony's kiss was hot. It's to bad TPTB tossed any future L/E relationship out the window. I don't see Evony trusting Lauren again nor being with someone who violated her the way Lauren did.

I liked that Lauren was nasty and cruel this episode. It validates everything that I've felt and said about her. After stripping Evony of her powers & using her sexually, Lauren arrogantly taunts her then smacks Evony for no reason. This is the real Karen/Lauren. This is the terrorist who killed 11 people and ran away. The writers should take Lauren to her natural progress in Season 5 by having her ethnically cleanse the Fae all in the name of love for Bo.

The best part was after all of Lauren's dumb plans & manipulations, all for you Boooooo!, she is again a damsel in destress--and it's all her own fault. (Baha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!)

Is it wrong to feel bad for Evony?

Things I didn't love:

The hip wings on Bo's 2nd outfit. What is going on in that costume department? Did they lick Choga's sweat before designing that outfit?

The missing scenes...Ugh! It made an already mediocre episode worse.
*How/when did Bo/Rainer/Rosette find the Women of the Horse's hideout?
*There was a secene missing between Massimo & Human Evony talking in her bedroom to when Massimo kidnaped Lauren and Evony and are in his lair.

I hated that TPTB dumbed down Evony to make Lauren look brilliant. Evony stated that she doesn't trust anyone. She didn't become and stay the Morrigan by being foolish. Lauren told Evony that she didn't trust her. Lauren is not the type of person to hide out in someone's bedroom dressed in a negligee. Nothing she said rang true. It made no sense that Evony didn't feel Lauren was playing her from the start. How has Evony lived for hundreds of years as a muse for humans and not understand them to a certain degree?
9. lonewolf
@cmm, Hales funeral should have been longer. Not only that but to have a knight come crashing thru the woods looking for my liege was crap. Right in the middle of a convo with Kenzi and that happens? You could see the look of disgust on Kenzi's face as she walked away.

As for wiping the super,uber,fantabulous DL. Stick her in a cell like Dyson did to that country club manager in 1x12, dismembers only. And the guy next to hers will take care of that. As for the de'faecation of Evony was spite because she overheard her talking about doing away with Bo from the start of S1E1. I would much rather have seen DL and Evony get together for a while. It would have made for an interesting thread. Getting Dl and Bo together would be toxic, but I get the impression that all the doccubus fans are trying to hi jack the show.

Then we have the I'm only marrying you to end your curse business, then he says for the record I do love you. And she gets somewhat googly eyed then. And THAT'S when that sock went flying at the tv.

At first I thought it was just the bonfire that made it look like they had handprints on their chests. But it was, I wonder if it has any connection to the sexy glow he laid on her on the train. I think Vex may have been the one who stole the seed from Tricks safe. Something as powerful as that and all he does is shut the door. The reason I say Vex may have taken it is because that was the episode where Trick talks about Bo showing up with a one handed mesmer and she is the darling of the dark. But who knows, we'll never know, that's for sure.

Massimo may have told Dyson he has the seed, which is why he didn't rip his throat out or let Kenzi go Russian stink eye on his ass. I didn't think that massimo would give Evony the origin seed. He's to much of a power hungry, self serving, major league ego stroking maniac to do something like that.

I think that Kenzi wanted Bo to unclaim her so she can go after massimo herself. She may just show up in that book because like you say, history may not have been fully written since Rainer came back to this plane.

The Twig Of Zamora, one would think that the Zamora clan would have a means of finding it should it ever get lost or stolen. That's anybody's guess as far as that goes.

The women of the horse culture may have been human. Much like the ones in a Xena episode. I read the interview from the Canadian TV guide? EA brought Xena up a few times. And I do believe that she likes to mislead people. Head games deluxe that one.

@Bore-mudaTriangle, and @Darthfaeder,I get the impression from everything that I read that the doccubus faenatics are trying to hi-jack the show.

@drusilla_doll, if massimo had said that to Dyson about the seed I would have tortured that sob til he revealed it's location. Along with the Twig Of Zamora. Did they check his pockets when they were at his place. Seems to me that if he didn't have it with him Bo could have sucubbused it out of him. That would be too easy tho.

@EvonyFleurette, first, I like the name Evony so much that I actually told a friend of mine that she should consider naming her daughter after her.

@Kiersten, you had mentioned in a previous post about DL taking Evony's powers and becoming the new Morrigan. When she was having pizza and Dark Belch beer wiht DL at her light fae apt. she (Evony) had mentioned something about cloning humans for experiments. I believe it was a sassy response to @nypinta's (was that you?)many questions that DL should clone Evony and then take her out and then she'd have a new lover that was also the leader of the dark. Why not, they can turn humans into fae and vice versa.

I wonder how well that origin seed will sit with a humans digestive system. I don't think the essence of five una mens will set well at all.

Finally, @EvonyFleurette, I too, would like to see Emmanuelle Vaugier come back for season 5 and I should say also, welcome to the discussion. It is a lot of fun and man it sure eats up a lot of time when you are having fun.
10. Bo's the best

Lauren didn't kill 11 people. Her brother did and she had no idea what he did. She made the pipe bomb, her brother used it without her knowing people were there. You are making up facts.

Why should Evony deserve any courtesy whatsoever. She threatened to kill Bo earlier in the episode and insulted Bo after Lauren made her human. Lauren had every right to taunt Evony after the things she's done.

What you've said about Lauren makes no sense. You are making up facts and your own canon to suit your love for Dyson and dislike for Lauren. Use facts that are accurate.
Nadine Robb
11. cmm
@onceinabluemoon I wouldn't say hate per say, although in the past I would say I hated Lauren. I'd instead classify it as annoyance and dislike because of that annoyance. It seems that whenever the tptb want to undo something they tend to insert her in there to disturb what has been told in canon. That is irritating. Especially where it pertains to fae and human anatomy. The way she's suddenly able to make fae's human or humans fae isn't right. Considering what they told us about fae and humans to begin with. To be honest with you, the changes they've made to her character would make her against the fae. There is no way she would align with either side. Rather she would just take them out. I'm actually surprised that they actually need healers in this show. There should be a fae that should be able to take away ailments (I think someone already mentioned this).
12. TheUberFan
I'm actually really disturbed by Lauren's actions in Origins. She's kind of on par with Taft right now, believing she's morally superior to the fae and that she has the right to perform deadly experiments on whoever she wants.

That's just really distressing, especially since she believes her motivations are pure.

Beyond that, Kenzi was awesome and I'm tired of being disappointed by everything else.

And given the promo pic for the finale, I'll probably be disappointed by that too.

Nadine Robb
13. cmm
I saw that just now uberfaenatic. It dissapoints me, it completely disregards what happened at the end of season 3. She broke up with her and that wasn't some big plan. She didn't formulate a plan until this season. Its going to take Kenzi's storyline finally getting interesting to keep me watching. To be honest I don't care who Bo ends up with anymore. I just want the bff/sisterly vibe between Kenzi and Bo to be restored.
14. onceinabluemoon
It makes more sense when someone actually has reasoning behind it that makes sense lol. I think there will always be characters in shows that people dislike. This season so many people don't even like Bo. I was just seeing people only focus on dislike for the character than what's going on in the ep because a whole lot happened. I wish all of this would have happened sooner because we only have one episode left :( As for canon in regards to fae and humans, I know it was established that fae dna and human dna are different, but I don't know if it's been established that couldn't be altered. I'm actually looking forward to seeing how this all plays out and hope the writers don't waste that opportunity to tell a good story there.


I don't think Lauren being held by Massimo is her own fault based on what she did to Evony. I think he would have tried to get her anyway because it seems he wants to use her ability with science to enact whatever plan he has. I 100% agree that the scene between Lauren and Evony didn't seem like it was natural. Evony wouldn't be trusting of Lauren or anyone for that matter. I do think the handprints we saw on Bo and Rainer this episode are the same ones they had on the train. I'm just wondering who put them there and why. I don't think it was Rainer which I initially thought, but it's funny Rainer knew what to do with the handprint. Like how he touched the print on Bo in 4x09 to make her remember.
15. onceinabluemoon
and @cmm I just saw your comment about Kenzi and Bo, and yes PLEASE just let these two work things out and be sisters again.
16. stacymd2
@onceinabluemoon: Thank you for letting us know what we should discuss. Even though Lauren is a major part of Lost Girl and was in half of 412's storyline, we should only compliment her & disregard all holes in her nonsensical arc. Bringing these things up is to bash her. Lauren doesn't get enough respect on H&H like she does on, Showcase LG forum, L-Chat forum, LG facebook, Tumbler, etc.

Other thoughts:

@Darthfaeder: I agree. Tamsin should have had more to do. If Rainer isn't her boss then who hired her? If Bo's Daddy was stuck in another deminsion then who hired her?

Since Bo was busy with the Women of the Horse, then Dyson, Trick and Tamsin should have been comforting Kenzi or looking through Fae archives for more info on Bo's daddy or at least shown interrogating Massimo.

KS rocked her scenes. It was sad hearing Kenzi read the prophecy that she wasn't in. Even Lauren was in it and not her.

Rosette's maniacal laugh was cheesey with sour cream on top. I'm surprised she didn't rub her hands together.

Evony & Joan Crawford must have read the same parenting books. The Mommy Dearset Award goes to...drum roll ... Evony Fleurette Marquise!!! No one makes out with or calls their son a monster like you can!

How did Evony give birth to Massimo if she has never had her period? Apparently, science, chemistry, medicine and a woman's body are all things Lost Girl's writers know nothing about.

This is the 2nd menstruation joke this season. I guess this balances out the penis jokes of past seasons.

"Women of the Horse shall rise." There is a joke in there somewhere but I can't find it. :-(

Vex being Massimo's adopted father is a lame, last minute plot device. Why would Evony leave her kid with Vex? Of all the Dark Fae and human orphanages in the world, why Vex?

Massimo's character was not a loopy, unhinged person in season three. This version of Massimo is a retcon.

About Bo:

The glowing hand print on RainBo's chests may mean that they are undersome mind control, but I'm begining to doubt it. Bo has been treating her loved ones this way because that is who she is now. Maybe the Dawning and choosing Dark changed her into who she really is.

I totally understood why she married Rainer and why she feels the way she does about Dyson/Lauren. Bo has a savior complex. Rainer, with his tale of woe, is exactly like type of person she would try to save and would fall for. She sees herself and struggles in him. There is no baggage with Rainer. There is no choice to make or potential for hurt feels.

It's easy to be with Rainer. Destiny has made a choice for her and that is less emotionally crippling. Maybe the woman who wants to live the life she chooses wants someone else to choose for her this time.
Nadine Robb
17. cmm
@onceinabluemoon My problem with her figuring out the fae/human thing bothers me because it's not realistic for her to figure that out. That's the type of thing that takes years even decades to unlock. I doubt Taft had been working on this for that long. Now if it had been some kind of super secret government lab, maybe i'd buy that. I do understand it's just a story, however, It would do well to follow it's own mythos. Many of the great fantasy/sci fi shows which have cult status and huge fanbases accomplish this with established mythos's that they stick to and build upon. Lost girl seems to establish itself then demolish what it's establish just to do another story.
Nadine Robb
18. cmm
@stacymd2 The lack of period I can buy cause she's a fae and not human. They may go through something different.
19. onceinabluemoon

Whoah. I didn't say that at all. I was just hoping to discuss the rest of the episode too because I like coming here and seeing peoples' perspective. I actually even agreed with you on some points including things you said about Lauren. I made every effort not to be rude because that was not my intention, so there is really no need to be aggressive.
20. onceinabluemoon

Oh ok. I get what you're saying. I'm not even sure why they have put that in the storyline. It's something that's been thrown around since season 3 but hasn't had any real purpose. Even with the whole Lauren/Evony thing it doesn't seem it's that important. That's kind of why I want to see if there is something more. That's also why I'm wondering if Massimo being human and going crazy will have something to do with it. But I get what you mean and they could have gone a different way with this.
21. Bore-mudaTriangle
I'm sort of hoping that the promo picture is to throw people off. Thinking it's them getting back together, when really it's Bo saying, "I love you but we can't be together." or something of the sort. I can hope, can't I?

Before, I honestly wouldn't mind Doccubus, but at this point it is getting so tiring. The triangle, Doccubus and DyBo, they've been stretched out for 4 long seasons and it's boring, to say the least. They either need to change it up completely, have Bo pick someone permanently and stop teasing other ships or just have Bo not having to choose between anyone at all (to be single, basically).

@cmm Yes, please give us back the Kenzi and Bo friendship. :( I miss them kicking butt together!

@stacymd2 I agree about why Bo is with Rainer. Even though it's been sold to us as true love, she does not say she loves Rainer back before their bonding ceremony.

Anyway, we have two big threats that have yet to come into play (I think). Where the keeper in the Dawning says it can be vengeful, so.. where is it? Unless we are seeing it and don't know it yet. I wouldn't be surprised if that threat dropped off the face of LG though. And the Una Mens leader saying she will suffer a horrible fate, which I assume may be related to daddy coming home.

The Vex/Massimo relationship had me shocked, but not in a good way. There's never been anything hinted to the two even knowing each other. I guess we will see where it goes, and maybe Vex will do the right thing in the end and help the gang defeat his adopted son. ;P
22. onceinabluemoon

I hadn't even thought about the bad fate being her dad coming back. That's awesome. I guess the Una mens knew about the prophecy even though Rainer didn't "exist" yet. I'm kind of sad because I feel like the Una mens were under utilized. I thought they were going to be much more influential this season.

Can Bo pick Kenzi please? :D

I like your name by the way lol.
23. Bore-mudaTriangle
Just want to add how much I love Ksenia Solo. She's an amazing actress and am sad to say that I have never heard of her before I started to watch Lost Girl. She has a bright career ahead of her. :)
24. stacymd2
@Bo'stheBest: I am not making up facts. Lauren stated to Crystal that she was an eco terriost. Karen/Lauren is a wanted criminal. She made pipe bombs that killed 11 people then ran from the law. She is as responsible for the victims' deaths as her brother. That is a fact.

Lauren has no right to turn Evony into a human. If a Fae turned a human into a Fae no one would question that it is wrong. Lauren didn't hear the whole conversation between Evony and Trick. If she was concerned for Bo's saftey then she should have gone to Trick, Dyson, etc., not taken matters into her own hands. That has never worked out for her. She already knows that Dyson & Trick would do anything to help Bo.

@OnceInABlueMoon: Massimo would not have gone to Evony's if she hadn't called. Evony called Massimo because of what Lauren did to her--and slapped her in her own bedroom. Evony was clearly affraid. Lauren was still in Evony's home when he got there. Her work was done, why did she stay unless she was holding Evony prisoner?

If Lauren had left Evony's home she would not have been captured by Massimo.
Carmen Pinzon
25. bungluna
I've read through all the comments. I'm still not reconciled to this episode or what AE & Co. have done the the show. I love debating with y'all, but the show has become painfully distasteful to me.

Bo's an idiot who wil save strangesr rather than pay attention to her friend. She's a lousy girlfriend and now she's an even worse bestie. As for being a heroine, yeah right.
MengeLauren is a witch, since science (even fictional) cannot begin to explain all the bullcrap she pulls off. Nor do the writers, even in passing.
Dyson and Tamsin and Trick are cyphers, only trotted out when some filler is needed.
And Kenzie has been abused once too many times.

What a mess!
26. onceinabluemoon

I don't like the whole thing that happened with Lauren and Evony and it would have made SO much more sense for her to go to Trick and Dyson for help.

I'm not sure why she stayed there either. Nothing in that scene flowed for me really. Massimo said something about faking a text from Bo then all of a sudden everyone is in a lair, Lauren is bleeding, Evony is nowhere to be seen, and Massimo is eating the seed. It was just all very odd to me.
27. Bore-mudaTriangle
@onceinabluemoon I thought they were going to be a bigger bad than what they were. It was disappointing, but I guess they couldn't go into season 5 with 4 big bads. Una Mens, Massimo, Bo's dad and Rainer (assuming he is still an evil horned beast as the book states).

Yes! Bo can pick Kenzi, and only Kenzi. :D

Thank you. ;D
28. onceinabluemoon

Ugh. That already sounds like an extremely exhausting season 5. lol Speaking of the horned crazy thing. Anyone notice how the picture looked like Bo did when the dream weaver watched her vision? I think it was in 3x02. I thought that was weird. Sorry guys, I don't know how to post an image.

Yes! Bo and Kenzi for the win!
Nadine Robb
29. cmm
"MengeLauren is a witch, since science (even fictional) cannot begin to
explain all the bullcrap she pulls off. Nor do the writers, even in

LMAO! This is very true!
30. TheGardner
I think the way Evony responded to Lauren was in chatacter. This is the same woman who let Bo handcuff her to the bed in 2x21. It's on par with the Dark being selfish and short sighted mantra. End of the world = time to get your mind blowing sex on. Evony didn't initially trust her, anymore than she did Bo, then her brain took up residence in the vicinity of her crotch and here we are.

A thought occured to me; why are the main fae females(Bo, Tamsin, Evony) shown as being bisexual while the fae males(Dyson, Trick, Rainer, Hale) as portrayed as straight? Is there something about the women that gives them a propensity towards sexual fluidity or is it a product of centuries long lives that makes them simply more open to it? Bo is a succubus so her sexual appetites are more en masse with a gender blind smorgousboard approach, and then we have Vex who seems up for anything. Still, with four out of the five regular females having same sex leanings the imbalance is noticible.

Dyson and Rainer being warriors actually makes them the most likely candidates for homosexual daliences. In ancient warrior sects this was a common practice in cementing the bonds between them. The fact that TPTB shy away from any notion that these are anything less than "manly men" creates a separation and really makes one question just how progressive this show really is.

It's the old standard: lady+lady=hot; male+male=not.
31. drusilla_doll
I would be onboard with Bo finally picking Kenzi above all others. I miss their BFF ship so much it hurts. These past two seasons their familial bond has been gradually worn down by neglect and then ripped to pieces by abduction, unintentional abandonment and tragic death. I hope they can find a way to come back together again.

@Bungluna LOL would that be MengeLo? ;P

Can Rainer just die or disappear or get dropped into an abyss already? I don't care about him and it feels like he's supplanted Dyson's place at Bo's side as her loyal warrior companion. The writers pulled him from their collective orifices to troll the shippers and play gotcha with the theorists and imo he's nothing more than a poorly executed MacGuffin.

Lauren secretly declaring war on all Fae and forming a human resistance would have been a much better overall arc for her. I liked her reclaiming her agency and independence until she made it all about Bo. Which still makes absolutely no sense at all.

Also, that claim? Could be made by Dyson too who's pretty much sacrificed everything to help Bo too. Even put up with prolonged heartache.

But right now, I just want him to run away from this train-wreck of a story. Bo can have Rainer as her Fae-husband for all I care anymore.

Will never support her going back to Lauren, but if Bo does decide on her, let that be the end of it till the show is over. No more waffling between lovers. We'll just forget all of their problems which led to the break up in the first place, because it's inconvenient for the writers to have to actually address them.

I still can't believe Bo basically just used Dyson for sex this season and then dropped him like he was yesterday's leftovers. I never thought the writers would allow Bo to be so callous.

ETA: @TG It is an interesting oversight. It's a pity they didn't allow Dyson and Hale to be bisexual or have Hale be gay from the start. I do agree the show is not particularly progressive in that respect.
32. TheUberFan
BTW...looks like EA is not pleased that people are putting down the vagina serum on a show that has mermaids.

Well, love...It's called suspension of disbelief.

The show is supposed to be fantasy, so I expect the magical and mythical. I expect mermaids.

The science is supposed to be based, at least loosely, on reality. So on fantasy show, I'm not pulled out of the moment by mermaids or wolves or succubi... but I am pulled out of a moment by a ridiculous serum that alters one's genus and species.

I'm a bit distressed that they don't understand the difference.
33. TheGardner
@drusilla_doll - That was the point all along in breaking the triangle for good. Showcasing that Bo isn't in love with Dyson and is in love with Lauren. Rainer is nothing and that will be done next episode. Bo and Lauren have been apart for the entire season to milk that extra drop when they are reunited. It is more of that manufactured skip to the drama bullshit. Just like it was with Kenzi and Hale or to a lesser degree Lauren and Evony.

I could care less if they get back together, but it seems about as inevitable as Hale's death was. I just want them to fucking talk already! I don't care if it is offscreen, just do it.

And I don't see why it was necessary for her to string Dyson along all season if she wasn't in love with him. All that accomplished was making him look pathetic and her an immature asshat. It was a waste of time that could have been spent on other stories, like Kenzi and Hale or Lauren's plotting. One short line of dialogue: Bo- "Dyson, I am sorry, but I am not in love with you. We will never be together again, you need to move on."

TPTB knew they were never going back there so rip off the band aid so he can get a new, hopefully better, story.

Also, I agree, Rainer needs to die. I am not impressed with the character or the actor. I think AS would be better acting with a 2x4, this guy is so stiff and unconvincing, also zilch in the chemistry department.
34. @doppleganger
OK. What the fae? I wish I could say this season was just a waste, a lost season of empty plot twists (where everything fun happened off screen also) ... but it has so undone the very fabric of all our characters' arcs, the world building of 3 years. How do you redeem Bo's callous/selfish/STUPID actions (she really can't be so naive and careless and arrogant)? What have they done to Lauren? And Tamsin ... so underutilized when for >15 episodes she has held the keys to the Wanderer/Rainer/etc storyline? Why did Rainer even need to exist.

The idea of the season was kind of fun - but the counter-to-character plot twists with no development tanked it. I actually took a page from @lonewolf and threw a sock at the tv, then the other sock, then the remote. Especially when Bo let Kenzi walk out and then ran off to marry Rainer. And kudos to Kenzi's "This is NOT about YOU".

The exception to this train wreck of course is Kenzi. I have to say in seasons 1-2, I loved Kenzi (and Ksenia Solo is an amazing actress), but she wasn't the reason I watched. Now she is the only redeeming part of the show. Deep breaths.

On to theories. So, Big Bad Daddy is coming from Valhalla. Somehow this is also associated with the Pyrripus. ?? Dad has been pulling the strings from the beginning, using Tamsin to seek out the woman who would be "the one" to release Rainer from his curse, marry Rainer (ugh!), and in turn release him from hell/'hel'/Valhalla ?? Rainer did say on the train (in Waves, I know some of you doubt those memories) that he didn't bring the women to him, he didn't know why they appeared, and "ugh, another brunette". So maybe he is just a pawn. Or maybe he is also a servant of the big bad and this is all a very elaborate ruse to ensure the prophey comes true. Please let him die, in any case.

Where is Kenzi in the poem? So let's note the folks listed: (cribbed from @whiskeywhite) "one with eyes both brown and blue": Bo; "one who shifts": Dyson; "a Valkyrie too": Tamsin; "one with blood that rules the world": Trick; "one who sings, his life unfurled": Hale; "A warrior to be her guide": ?; "a healer always by her side": ?

Some are clearly clear. But some aren't, and Kenzi interprets the warrrior as Rainer (assumedly) and the healer as Lauren. Can a shadow thief be a warrior guide? The healer (is "always by her side" ...?) can that be Lauren? Or perhaps others are right, and Kenzi's role is yet to be written.

What's gonna happen? Some major character deaths still on tap. Since we have 45 minutes left, I'm assuming that the deaths will happen toward the end and then voila we get hellshoes and theoretically in Season 5 she goes off to hell to bring someone back (did someone else mention how Xena-esque this is getting?). I'm so irritated now I don't even care who the big bad is.
35. Bore-mudaTriangle
@drusilla_doll I agree that if Bo does choose Lauren, keep them together! No breaking up, teasing other ships, getting back together, repeat. Or if they do get back together, and do break up again, leave it at that. They need to stop dragging this very long and tiring relationship on and on and on.

To be honest I kind of hope Lauren turns into a villian! (They'd never do that, though. Their beloved Lauren is just an amazing scientist who does whatever it takes to protect her Bo. Eye roll.) Even if she did become a villian, it'd end in Bo turning her good again by some loving words and she would be forgiven. The only logical way for this story line to continue is if she were to be bitter and betray the fae, though. What other reason would there be to create this serum to turn fae into humans? Other than a very creepy and possessive thought of turning Bo into a human against her own will (or with it?) so they can live happily ever after. Anyway.. yes, this serum has absolutely no importance in this story line, that I can see anyway.

What are we going to do after next Sunday? I will probably marathon LG all day, everyday, until the next season airs (if one).
Nadine Robb
36. cmm
@TheGardner I do not agree that was the point all along. Bo has proven she is in love with both Dyson and Lauren. She's not willing to choose. In fact I theorize when Rainer is out of the picture the triangle will be back in full force. Although with the way things are looking Rainer could easily be around in season 5.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
37. Kiersten
Guys I'm still on vacation in Toronto but a big hearty welcome to you new posters. I'm glad you found us and have added your voice to the conversation.

I've pretty much given up on Lost Girl at this point. I have zero interest in the story that has fallen out after the great beginning that season four enjoyed at first. There's no rhyme or reason to it anymore and it's degraded to meaningless tripe with the random lewd jokes that increasingly fall on the crass side of funny. At this point, I can't imagine anything that could happen in the finale to change my mind.

Will there be a season 5? I think that's certain though why they're taking so long to announce it is a puzzle. I also think someone major is still going to die (my bet is on Tamsin or Dyson at this point, but I'm still holding out hope for Doctor Lauren as a last minute dark horse) but it doesn't matter any more. The show is a travesty, a mere shell of what it once was that is goverend more by fan wanking and random "let's have a mermaid episode! let's make Vex a foster father!" plot shenanigans than any true desire to craft an interesting story about Bo the Succubus leading her own life amongst the Fae. Its cast alone is its saving grace and Lost Girl maintains its loyal fans base solely through their skills and quality and devotion to making the best they can out of this farcical drivel.
Nadine Robb
38. cmm
Hey Kiersten! I was wondering where you were. Welcome to T.O. Hope you enjoy it there. Now onto your post I do agree with it. As much as this episode did tie up loose ends, I did find myself saying "whaaa????" throughout some of it. I think basically EA has been trolling the boards, fanfic etc. has taken out some of the most central themes and put them into the show. As I said before, I remember saying myself I want Bo to move on with anyone but Dyson or Lauren. Now we have Rainer. Kenzi and Hale people wanted that too. But they gave it to use half assed. We got maybe 3 episodes of seeing them date and then Hale dies. I dunno where season 5 is going to take it other than we meet Bo's father.
Carmen Pinzon
39. bungluna
I can't imagine them getting a Season 5 after this debacle, but if they do, any of the characters may come back as long as they get SOMEBODY ELSE to be head writer and show runner.

Land's sake, sci-fi / fantasy shows that become long-running hits depend on careful world building and great characters to sustain us in our disbelieve. The first season of this show had great potential, but it's certainly been downhill ever since.

When this season started and the show seemed to be tying loose ends, I thought the cretins in charge had decided to go back to basics, but oh no, we get this ending.

Wow, way to butcher a promising story idea! I guess we did get something to chew on, but my jaws are hurting, I've got indigestion and I'm just out of all patience.
40. Stacymd2
Dyson make seem lame for being devoted to Bo for four years, but at least he hasn't degraded himself sexually. That takes pathetic to a new level.

Has anyone said that Lauren took away Bo's agency yet? She tried to "save" Bo when she didn't need saving and is more than capable of defending herself from Evony.

@lonewolf: Lauren is becoming like Joxer from Xena--bumbling, full of themselves and always in need of rescue by a brunette woman in leather.

If a topical vag serum worked to turn Evony human, then wouldn't a tranquilizer gun have been easier, faster and better? Evony was coming home from a hard day of shopping and yelling at people, she wasn't expecting anyone to be in her bedroom.

If I took medication for cancer or depression without needing them, I would become very sick. Why didn't Lauren have side effects from putting a serum on her body that is able to change a being's DNA?

It's great that Lost Girl has so many gay/bi women. There are not many on TV. It would be very interesting, however, if Rainer and Dyson " hit it off". A Dyson/Bo/Rainer relationship would actually be groundbreaking. Both men would be with the woman, and man, that they loved. Bo would be with two lovers who are devoted to her, are compatible with her and will not bail when things are rough.

Bo wasn't stringing Dyson along until she remembered Rainer, her destiny.

I agree with everyone who said that season 5 better be the Kenzi and Bo make up season. I'd take less Dyson, Tamsin and Trick if it meant more Kenzi/Bo next season.

If Dyson, Trick or Hale had done the exact same thing to Evony that Lauren had done, the outrage and cries of sexism, rape and misogyny would be deafening. When females do these things on Lost Girl, even to other women, they are "badass".

I find it disturbing that this is the 2nd time Evony has been defeated in a sexually humiliating manner. Since it was by Lauren this time, and not Vex or another male, it is badass and A-OK.

@kiersten: 413 will determined if I continue watching Lost Girl. EA can and should tell the story she wants to tell, but I don't owe her my eyeballs or time. Let's hope 413 isn't awful.

@drusilla_doll & bore-mudaTriangle: I agree. If Lost Girl has Bo choose Lauren then they should commit 100%. There can be no backsliding half way through the season. They should also have Lauren use her amazing anti-Fae vag serum on Bo. The only realistic way for Bo & Lauren to be together -- besides ignoring that B/L are incompatible and Lauren was emotionally and mentally unhappy -- is for her to be human.

@cmm: I'll be disappointed if the Bo's daddy storyline drags into season 5. It has gone on two seasons past the expiration date.

Also, Kyle S and Tim R were on tonight's Being Human.
41. jojo
Concerning Lost Girl?: I think we are all thinking the same thing... What The F**k?!?!?!?!? Kensi and Tamsin are the only characters that make any sense in this season(Lauren is kicking some serious ass for once but still). What the hell Writers? Are you just writing random shit and trying to drop contrived cliffhangers at the end of every episode on a dare? I was originally very hopeful when the format began to shift away from the episodic story lines to a more expansive arc but unless you pull some a Game of Thrones quality course correction in episode 13, I'm out. Orphan Black actually has their sh*t together so at least there is that to look forward too... I guess... I really used to love this show please to throw away years of investment in these once endearing characters! PLEASE!
42. TheGardner
So are we, and by that I mean the writers, just going to ignore the fact that Dyson and Tamsin banged?

@cmm - Agree to disagree I guess. What I have been seeing from Bo is that she loves Dyson, but is in love with Lauren. If the triangle is back next season I'm out. Lauren, Dyson or neither(Rainer is sooooo toast) pick one and be done.
Carmen Pinzon
43. bungluna
@TheGardner - why have a meaningful conversation about anything? That kills the drama, don't you know?
44. drusilla_doll
@TG I really hope the writers don't just gloss over the D/T comfort bang. It annoyed me that D/K barely addressed their memory-loss induced romance from the first ep, either. Changing character dynamics, no matter how temporary, are interesting to watch imo. So it disappoints me when the writers skip those moments in favour of cheap plot twists and/or meta jokes. For example, why didn't we get to see Dyson taking Kenzi under his wing with the Shadow Thief training? Was it so that she could feel all bereft and neglected for the draaaaammmaaa?

I do hate how the writers put all the things I would love to see played out offscreen and just shortcut all of the subtler more organic emotional beats. It makes the show feel like it's more focused on keeping the audience on the back foot and surprised by crazy plots and melodramatic turns, than engaged and invested in what's going on with the characters.

I'd rather be wondering how they will repair all of these relationship rifts and defeat Bo's soon to be released Daddy than be wondering WTF were they smoking when they plotted this. What purpose did it serve to have Vex be Massimo's adoptive father, for example. Why did they rework the whole Wanderer set up from last year into 'hottie warrior dude called Rainer, who is stuck on a train & possibly-not-that-evil insta-love interest for Bo'? We're still waiting on Horsey Daddy to appear; let's hope he's not a huge disappointment like the Garuda.
45. J.fall
Hmm, well, if we go back to Season One, Bo wanted to be cured of being a Succubus and have a normal human life. So, if the reason they're holding back on S5 is because they haven't got one, Tasmin can take all the noble Fae off to Valhalla. All the rest can go up in a fireball with Bo's Dad. Kenzi finds the leaf of everlasting life and decides not to take it. Bo and Lauren have goodbye sex as Bo's the last to go with Tamsin and then isn't taken because the serum is still active. Bo, Lauren and Kenzi go off in the yellow camo to be seen in the last scene of the series in a house with a white picket fence with a dog, a pregnant Lauren and a beaming Bo. Bo and her two humans have therefore bumped off the Fae-feeding humans and scored a victory for mankind. And in true horror tradition, the foetus can be the last shot, the sound of a beating heart and we're left wondering .......... is this the last of the FAE!!!!!

Other than that, with this last season, I find Bo's journey and what they've done to the Sunshine gang incomprehensible. I look forward to next week with interest to see if it can possible become any worse.
Nadine Robb
46. cmm
@Jfall what you have described is truly disturbing lol. But funny nonetheless. I think the general consensus is that, is that if they don't do something quick they will loose a lot of fans.
47. lonewolf
First, and while this doesn't relate directly to the show or any dialogue between fans, I have to say this. There is a period in the waking moments when someone is neither fully awake or fully asleep. It is in that moment, for some, when thoughts run through the mind about recent happenings. In this case a forum discussing the characters of a show. That I got from a show and a book regarding the metaphysics of what happens around and within us. Did anyone know that when a basketball bounces it does not actually touch the ground.

The reason I brought that up is because of all the thoughts that were
running thru my mind earlier, when I was in that state. I experience it every morning. I use that moment to, more often than not, picture my day. But not this morning. This morning it was about this show and character relationships. And there were a lot of them. Had I been able to transfer those thoughts as they came to me, on here right then, you would be reading a book. So I will try to condense that book, and try to keep continuity.

First is the show and what is was like when it premiered. It was like a jet, LOST GIRL AIRLINES, all passengers( characters) proceed to boarding. Bo and Kenzi weren't passengers, they were they pilots in command. Bo, of course being the pilot, because the show revolved around her. But....that jet would never have taken off as smoothly as it did if Kenzi hadn't been there as her co-pilot.

So, the characters boarded the plane, I don't have to list the passengers names because we all know who they are. Every now and then after they were in the air they would hit some turbulence (i.e. characters such as will o' the wisp at first) no big deal, we'll be thru it in a moment. As that first leg of the journey continues they hit more pockets of turbulence. Sometimes stronger than before but not always. They land safely, end of season one. It was a good flight that gave LOST GIRL AIRLINES it popularity. But still, something was lost along the way. Love perhaps?

The second leg of the journey, it's a smooth take off because both the same pilots are at the controls. Again tho, they hit some turbulence, only this time it's stronger and lasts longer (i.e. Lachlan, baba yaga, the garuda, etc.) but they still land safely, somewhat. But two of the passengers have moved up to the front of the plane during that time and have started a ruckus, it winds up in an exhausting three way battle between the pilot and these two passengers. But that has been brewing for awhile.

The third leg of the journey. The co-pilot isn't feeling to well, she has this odd looking rash on her arm that she's been trying to hide for sometime. But then it gets to the point where it is starting to become very bothersome. Nobody notices it until they realize that something about the co-pilot is not the same (The Kenzi Scale.) It is fully realized and a cure is found. Still tho, they fly into some very strong turbulence. Only this time it's stronger and lasts much longer than before (s3e7-12). And the landing is not a smooth one at all. And the pilot seems to have disappeared. So who the hell is in control now.

The fourth leg of the journey, it's not the best of take offs, but it does get off the ground. And the pilot? She went on a train ride for about a month with some stranger that does a heck of a job wooing her. She does make it back into the pilots seat, tho something is different about her now. Everybody is asking what happened to her on that train ride? Also, when the pilot comes back, a new passenger boards the flight. Who's this new passenger everyone is wondering. And it has all of them freaking out. The pilot's not the same, where is the co-pilot. Where in hell is the co-pilot!? She's been there all along, it's just that everybody is freaking out so much, nobody sees her or maybe they do but they are all just so freaked out. And because no one is there to really help the co-pilot out, the plane starts to lose control and goes into a flat spin. A downward spiral. And the only way to bring it back under control is to go nose down til enough speed is gained to gain control. That has not happened yet. So will it crash or what? Lets all keep an optimistic mind set and hope that it does not. We'll see, were almost ready to land safely, maybe. It's up to the pilot to bring the plane back into a proper flight level, and hopefully ground control(the writers and EA) will find a place for her to do it. If so then there may be another leg to the journey.

That is an analogy or condensed version if you will, of what my thoughts were during that time of limbo this morning. I realize that I skipped parts of what was happening with all of the passengers during this journey. And probably there are some who will get picky about what I put down here. But like I said, if I were able to put all of this mornings thoughts on here, you would be reading a book.

And if I may say, we, all of us pretty much agree that Bo should work towards gaining a better understanding of herself and this world she has become a part of. Dyson told her to read a book during 1x9 Fae Day. But she must not have read much of it. The silly shit goes off on one of her soon to become a regularity of I will set things right, in this case agallamh. Yeah, don't bother to read the whole chapter about it. And this mindless setting things right before thinking it thru business has put her in a world of shit now!

And like I said, there are some who will get picky about what I put down here. I welcome it. It makes for a healthy debate.

And finally, to both sides of the Bo/Lauren debate. Lets all be adult about that debate. I found myself getting caught up in the, what I call childish name tagging of characters and their possible mates. I didn't like it and I came very close to leaving this forum. But I'll stay on it, if only for the reason (and not to beat a dead horse or cow in my case seeing as how I let my meatloaf get cold) of my maybe being the only guy on here and I like reading of what most surely be a majorityof women But for now I have to go and watch 4x12 with my 71 year old former Freewill Baptist minister. Have a good day everyone.
Marie Sullivan
48. minime2
First off I love that Keirsten called shenanigans on the show. I called it much worse this morning, I just can't invest in a show that throws out consequences and lore. Plus the amount of unrecognized sexual assaults on this show is disturbing.

Both Dyson and Evony's assaults plus the Jail Episode in season 3 are not at all "campy" as EA would classify them. Second, HELLO?!!??! what happened to fae must stay married for 1000+ years before they can even consider divorce That is not something you just rush into as Bo learned from season 2. Unless the finale is a 2 hour epic journey written and directed by Joss Whedon I don't have high hopes for it.
Jay Cruz
49. JayCruz61
@Keirsten that, "Mermaid nonscense" came from EA's personal attempt to ingratiate herself with her insatiable desire and obsession with mermaids, just like Shonda Rhimes who is the executive producer of Grey's Anatomy implemented an episode of a stupid musical all because she loves musicals and just wanted to do it. Unfortunately, this is what they do, self-distruct. Notice the difference, Peter Paige the executive producer of the Fosters. He never sways from the story he is trying to tell. A persons ego ______ feel free to fill in the blank...

Happy vacation! I hope you have loads of fun. A safe return.
Marie Sullivan
50. minime2
A little side note is anyone watching Being Human, Tim Rozon (Mossamo) has a multi episode arc this season. Seeing him at 9 on Being Human as a werewolf dad and at 10 as a big bad is a bit funny.
51. newgirl
About the poem Kenz was reading, am I wrong to think the poem is has something missing, because for me is a list of companions and if Bo IS a companion who is the main character on the poem?? I mean the poem goes like "one with eyes.... a valkyrie too, one shifts, one blood that rules..., one who sings... A warrior to be her guide.... (a guide to whom, to the first number in the list??), a healer always by her side (whose side??)" i think there is something missing and maybe that's what involves Kenz... hope so
Nadine Robb
52. cmm
Yup I agree with you @newgirl. I said that in the post. Its plausible because Rainer is being written right back into history. Next week they could of had it so someone says "oh it says something more". It really doensn't make sense to omit Kenzi now considering she has been such an integral part of Bo's life since day 1. She was there before Dyson was with Bo and be Lauren was with Bo. She in my opinion is the most important person.
Susan White
53. whiskeywhite
Apropos of nothing, I was just reviewing past posts and rediscovered the thread of disucssion that followed Kristen's article about her top 5 favourite episodes of LG. There are 820 comments (!!) which extend from Aug. 17 - Nov. 10, 2013. There were some utterly fabulous discussions as we sought to while away our time waiting for the debut of season 4 in Canada. Another such dry season is coming again soon, although Kiersten's wonderful as usual recaps of season 4 can hold us for a couple of months.
54. newgirl
By the way the promo pict looks to like it was Bo saying, "hey it's ok I have to do this" just like the chapter when she said goodbye to Lauren and Dyson (leaving AGAIN a neglected Kenz in the back of the scene) to go after the "Wanderer's crow" I don't remember his name now... maybe we have massimo killing Kenz and Bo going for her... I don't know right now I'm just following the thread of thoughs from the previuos chapter... nonetheless i hope kenz is back with a BANG that proof her, unneeded to be proven, worthiness, but first
I think some demostration of Bo own worthiness in this BFFship is in order
Nadine Robb
56. cmm
Ok guys here is the promo for next week.
57. Bore-mudaTriangle
Next week's episode looks amaaazinggg. Hopefully it wasn't just a well made promo for a bad episode, but I am pretty excited about it.

So, Massimo comes for Bo while she's in the Dal with Rainer, he throws her on a table, where is Rainer to help?! From Bo taking Tamsin's chi, I think Tamsin probably offers it up because she knows Bo will need it, to feel stronger or whatever. We get to see Tamsin's wings this episode too, so I wonder where that will come into play. But I think it will be Kenzi who dies, only because of how she says it in the promo. It's the only way for Bo to save the world, if it wasn't Kenzi, why would Kenzi make that comment? Like, oh yeah Lauren has to die but I am going to help her throw her life away. (I used Lauren just because a lot of people think it could be Lauren). But it could also be Rainer.. or anyone because this show is unpredictable. It shows Bo (I think) looking at Rainer's picture as a horned beast, why? She having doubts? Or does Rainer finally become evil this episode? plz. Anyway, excited for next week.
58. Nubia Evangelista
Estou ficando maluca ou tem pessoas bobas falando mal de Lauren?Tudo q ela fez e faz é por conta de seu amor por Bo e sobre transformar a líder das trevas em humana foi genial pois ninguém esperava por essa ponto para doc q mais uma vez mostra ser um gênio para transformar FaE em humano vamos combinar.acho q Bo precisa de D,K,mas ela ama somente Lauren e por isso ficarão juntas para sempre mesmo q isso desagrade alguns
Jay Cruz
59. JayCruz61
@Bore-mudaTriangle as you have stated who really knows.. However, the only one we know isn't going to die is Bo because she is the star of the show. The rest of the characters are fair game. It looks good though. I will say this. If they touch the Kenzi, Lauren, Dyson or Tamsin characters they will lose a huge chunck of their fan base, way more than those threatening to stop watching, presently. Somehow, I don't think EA cares to be honest. With that said, If I had to guess which character will die, (assuming one will) i'll go with Rainer and/or Trick over all the rest.
60. stacymd2
@bungluna: Dyson and Tamsin are over 1,000 years old. They don't need to talk and process a ONS, unless the writers decide to make it a plot point in S5.

@drusilla_doll: Writers off-screening interesting conversations & developments is the 2nd most grating thing about Lost Girl. What is worse is when they use something that occured off screen as a plot point or joke like the panty Shadow Thief training.

@Jfall: I liked your post. I feel like we're chasing the dragon with Lost Girl these last two seasons. We keep hoping that Lost Girl will return to the rush, excitment and delight of season 1, but each following season is not as good.

@lonewolf: I think we all agree that Lost Girl is in a downward spiral into the Atlantic and we have our parachutes straped and ready to bail. Let's hope the show pulls up in 413.

@minime2: Lost Girl should stick to it's established bible. If the writers want Season 4 to be impactful, then Bo should remain Dark Fae and married to Rainer for 1,000 years. It would disrupt the status quo. This makes life difficult for Bo, but she'd be facing a consequence for her choices.

@newgirl: I agree. There has to be a second verse to the poem that Kenzi didn't read or wasn't written yet.

@cmm: Thanks for the promo link!
61. drusilla_doll
So Lauren dies (Massimo kills her?) and Bo visits her grave wearing her necklace? You know she'll be going to make a bargain with Levi for her return. Can't wait for that /sarcasm. I would have much preferred Bo go out on a limb to save Kenzi, but oh well, the story is what it is.

It looks pretty epic over all, though. Guess Dyson will continue to be her lieutenant, backing her up, which fits with his faithful, loyal nature - regardless of how he feels about her recent rejection.

I wonder what Kenzi's 'only way' is? Entering the portal herself? Putting on the helskor shoes? Surely they have to come into play eventually. Or Tamsin offering to scoop up either Massimo or an evil Rainer and fly them to Valhalla to close the rift which is opening?

That nasty picture definitely looks like Rainer, but with gaping maw, horns etc.

Maybe initially both Rainer and Lauren are killed and Bo has to make a choice who to bring back, but then finds out more how evil Rainer is - because, you know, even I would pick DL over R. Come on, it's a no b-Rainer. ;)
Carmen Pinzon
62. bungluna
@Nubia Evangelista - sorry, doing any type of genetic experimentation on an unsuspecting being is unethical, immoral and plain wrong, not any type of genius. Love doesn't begin to excuse it.

Lauren has shown herself too fond of experimenting on the Fae from the start; I don't think she viewes them as 'human' any more.

As far as her genius, the writers could have done a better job of researching things a bit to make her look sciency; as it is, she just looks silly and disjointed as a character. Vajayjay jelly to transform fae DNA into human DNA? Really?!

As for her and Bo being destined for each other forever, I just don't see it. They boink like bunnies on aphrodisiacs, but they do precious little else together. Talking? Sharing interests? Companionship? I just don't see it.
Maria Payne
63. Georgiana2494
@Bore-mudaTriangle - I agree with you. Kenzi making that comment makes me think that she sacrifices herself. Also the look on Dyson & Bo's faces when he holds her back make me think the same thing.

I don't like how crazy this season has been but I can't help but be somewhat excited to see how it ends. Even if I throw many socks at the TV.
64. Bore-mudaTriangle
I don't think Massimo kills Lauren. In the promo there is a scene where Lauren is behind Bo while she is fighting Massimo. I think Rainer *should* die and beyond that anyone else could die. I don't think it's Dyson though only because he is holding Bo back when whatever happens, happens.

@bungluna I do not see the Lauren and Bo together forever thing either, like you said, they have sex, I am sure they do love each other, but sometimes love isn't enough. That's why some people have to break it off with people they love because love isn't enough, they aren't happy or whatever. I feel this should be the case, they love each other but are like fire and gasoline together.
65. Bore-mudaTriangle
Oh, and if Kenzi does die (I think any of the gang for that matter) that does not mean they are permanently gone. As Bo is supposed to go see Levi, which will probably be next season.
66. stacymd2
The promo looks great. Let's hope the episode is as well.

@Bore-mudaTriangle: I agree if someone dies Bo will visit Levi and bring them back in S5.

@drusilla_doll: If Lauren dies, saving the world and Fae of course, Bo will rush to bring her back. I'm guessing Lauren will return supernatural or Fae. If Bo is Fae and Lauren is Fae then I think 412 will be the last we hear of the anti-Fae vag serum.

I'm wishing that it is Kenzi who dies. When Kenzi returns as an immortal or Fae she would get what she has always wanted. Kenzi would feel equal to Bo and be a part of the world she made her home.
Nadine Robb
67. cmm
If they bring Lauren back and she's fae, that would end the show for me. I'm sorry but they can't make Kenzi fae, but they can make her??!? What a crock. I agree with your sentiments regarding Kenzi. It should be her.
68. lonewolf
Just rereading the comments. Concerning Hales funeral. There was a clip somewhere along the way that shows Bo, by herself, driving up to what looks like a cemetery. Was she dressed in black. I don't know where to find that clip but it occured to me that is what she could have been doing.

@Stacymd2, is it wrong to feel bad for Evony? No it is not wrong to feel that way. Regarding the horse culture women and how Bo, Rainer and the knight found them. When Bo burned the card, those are the same roman numerals that were on the card that little Tamsin touched. The cards, after they had been burned is when the numbers appeared When Lauren came into the clubhouse while Bo, Rainer and the knight were discussing it, she mentiond that they could be topography coordinates. So maybe the cards had a dual purpose. One gave Dyson the time for the next death train and was used as the ticket. The other that Bo lit with a match gave them the coordinates to find the horse culture women. Otherwise they would not have found the place and would never have found the lock of hair which was needed for Bo and Rainer to get married. About the kidnapping of human Evony (bummed it happened) and Lauren, was there a commercial break there? And Evony, while she was a badass dark fae leader, she was a pushover when it came to sex. That's how I see it.

@Bo's the best and @Stacymd2, while Lauren wasn't there when the bomb went off and killed 11 people. She is what's called "guilty by association.

@UberFaenatic, I won't even try to interpret that. I don't like what I see right there, tho. Also @Stacymd2, the way Bo and Rainer are holding there hands to there chest reminds me of a salute.

@doppelganger, the way I see it, the only way to redeem Bo for her actions and behavior right now is to have all of the sunshine gang band together and bail her ass out of trouble, whatever it may be. Then give her a mirror with the words exercise humility printed on it and tell her to look in it every morning when she gets her sucubussed ass out of bed. And make her read at least one chapter of that book that Trick gave her. And did you really throw two socks and your remote at the tv? You know what I'll be keeping handy next week? A shoe and a credit card, I may wind up having to buy a new tv. I still think that Rainer is the big bad daddy. That sexy glow he laid on her and the fact that he knew all about the compass plus this I don't know how you got here was a half truth. The ravens brought the women to him. And I say ravens because we have Tamsin and Acacia as valkyries. This is from nordic legend. The birds that served Odin were ravens. And if Rainer didn't know how they got there, then how did he manage to get Hugin into a bottle. Not only that but they brought Ianka to sing for her and rainer. Kenzi was, to me, a warrior just to be able to live and survive on the streets.

@Bore-MudaTriangle, having Lauren turn Bo into a human would really put a Tamponer on things. Sorry, I couldn't leave that one alone.

@cmm, Bo may have loved Dyson but look at how she couldn't say it to his face at the Dal. Maybe a little bit of guilt there.

@Kiersten, tripe? That is some yucky stuff, just ask Kenzi, Bo and Nate. It fits.

@J.fall, I'd rather see Bo, Kenzi and Lauren buy a vineyard in France and have a dog that doesn't bury shoes.

@lonewolf, what the hell did you put in that cool-aid last night? Whatever it was, someone should spike the writers and EA's coffee with it. Then have them read Tolkien or Castenada, or both.

@newgirl and @cmm, Kenzi will be written into that book, I hope. I think she made Bo un-claim her so she could go after massimo and get Russian stinkeye on his ass herself. She may not have to tho, I don't think a seed with the concentrated essence of five una mens was meant for the human digestive system. I guess we'll find out next week, maybe. It seems that EA likes to play with peoples heads.

And finally, they would be absolute assholes to write KS out of this. She makes that show what it is/was from the start. I think if anything she should get her own show. Just don't let these idiots that have done such a good job at screwing this show up anywhere near that one.
69. stacymd2
@lonewolf: Last summer it was leaked that KS had auditioned for a role in the upcomming Star Wars movie. If she got the role then she may have to be written out for part of Lost Girl's Season 5 to accomodate her film schedule.

As a KS fan, I dearly hope she got the part.

@cmm: I would spit nails too. One way or another the writers most likely will use Lauren's ability to change species in a future storyline. How can they not? TPTB have opened many avenues to turn Lauren Fae (magic science or resurrection as fae) or to turn Bo human (anti-fae vag serum).
70. lonewolf
@stacymd2, If they don't there fools. She would be world wide. Then everybody, not just us LG and KS fans, would get to see her and what an excellent actress she is.
71. lonewolf
@stacymd2, I forgot to say also, that there is one difference between Lauren and Joxer. Everybody liked Joxer, fool tho he may have been.
72. apollo1
I have read a lot of the comments and commented only once before on this thread. My opinion I liked this episode for one reason and one reason only LG creators producers whatever have finally filled in some blanks for us as an audience. Honestly we have gone all season 4 and 3 for that matter filling in our own educated guesses and trying to hop on their thought train only to get derailed. If something good doesn't happen in this next episode and the beggining of season 5 I honestly don't think I'll be able to watch anymore.
As far as the characters lets be serious they were all pretty awesome with good back stories and reasons behind doing things even if we didn't like their choices it was for love. Dyson giving up his love to save bo. lauren sleeping with her so she wouldnt be killed all that jazz. This season they have completely gone against there morals we have come to believe they had this season. Bo im sorry but I can hardly stand to watch her i don't believe anything that comes out of her mouth anymore. All of it is contradicting. Lauren honestly i thought what she did was called for. I did however think the writers went to far with rubbing it in evonys face though. lauren hitting her yea i was ok with that too she threatened bo. Dyson wouldve done the same he ate the guy fom season 3 at the end taft. All I know is i love all characters i don't care who bo is with however i don't like the new guy not a bit and the writers producers all of them need to get their act together their going to loose fans if they keep screwing with the characters we fell in love with.
73. apollo1
@dopleganger "Where is Kenzi in the poem? So let's note the folks listed: (cribbed from @whiskeywhite) "one with eyes both brown and blue": Bo; "one who shifts": Dyson; "a Valkyrie too": Tamsin; "one with blood that rules the world": Trick; "one who sings, his life unfurled": Hale; "A warrior to be her guide": ?; "a healer always by her side": ? Some are clearly clear. But some aren't, and Kenzi interprets the warrrior as Rainer (assumedly) and the healer as Lauren. Can a shadow thief be a warrior guide? The healer (is "always by her side" ...?) can that be Lauren? Or perhaps others are right, and Kenzi's role is yet to be written."
Can i mention one extremely scary thought that would ruin the entire show. What if Kenzi is already written in and is the warrior to be her guide. In laurens poem she read of the queen or warrior that would be killed ( sorry not correct phrasing but you get the idea).
74. katotela
After watching the promo i think Kenzi is a warrior and she is the one who is going to die. when she said "it is the only way Bo can save the world"i think she meant she as a warrior must die in order for the prophecy to be fullfilled and save the world.
75. JayCruz61
@apoll01 and anyone else that thinks Kenzi will die and is this warrior. Did you forget this line Kenzi spoke when reading that prophetic book, "The professor and Mary-Ann! (funny shit) Everyone's in here except the weak human." Notice Bo didn't refute what she said. She interjected, "Kenzi, you are a part of all of us. Which conotes, NO! warrior but human only just as Kenzi stated and no one can definitive say that the part where Kenzi read stating, "a healer always by her side," is Lauren, either. (just saying)
76. lonewolf
@The Gardner, As I was reading yesterdays comments I came across your comment about not having on of the male characters on the show be gay or at least bi-sexual. I blew (pun intended) by it saying I won't even go near that one. I felt as tho I was being baited. But I agree it borders on hypocrisy to having only women be the Bi-sexual or gay ones on the show. It wouldn't have bothered me any. It would not have or would be a threat to my masculinity. There is a show on primetime called Modern Family that has a gay couple on it. Of course because of it being on primetime they only present them that way but without the outright openness of actual sexual activity on it. But one guy on it has been written in as being over the top gay. So you have a primetime show that kids watch with a gay couple on it. No biggie (again pun intended ;)) But while I have no problem with it just don't, in real life, come hitting on me, man. Actually there is a doctor here that is openly gay. Although this guy is considered a more of a prescription pad than an actual doctor. And this show being what it is, it would show more open sexuality. Also, I believe it was both the Greek's and Roman's that practiced that bonding, probably amongst others. And while they weren't main characters on the show, I think there was a couple of men for just a fleeting moment, locking lips at Roman's sex club.

Just recently a professer has unlocked or has been able to translate an old viking rune. Turns out it was graffiti of sorts and guess what it said? Kiss me. I laughed and thought wow, maybe it was something one guy wrote over to another as they were paddling there boat while tripping their cahonnies of til they hit the Canadian shores.

And lastly, before I wind up late to get my hair cut. I wonder, what kind of "cement" did these warriors use to "bond" with? ;)
Nadine Robb
77. cmm
@apollo 1 I am not disagreeing with you that Evony was bad news and needed to be taken down a peg. I do however disagree with you about the way it was done and what was done. It was a violation of the highest order. The whole scene was disgusting. The writers could of had her slip a liquid into her wine, they could of had her knock her over the head with a vase etc. But they chose the most vulgar way possible. I can't buy anymore that she was repulsed by Taft season 3 for his actions and what they were doing to the fae. I think she enjoyed that because if someone is repulsed by something such as Taft's experiements would never do to the morrigan what she did. I don't understand why she did it either.
The fact that Lauren went there says she can't be trusted, ever.
There was no reason for her to believe that Bo was in any real danger. Evony is always spouting off threats when it comes to Bo but never really delivers on them. Also, in that scene did she really think that Trick would let Evony kill his granddaughter?

The writers really did a disservice to this character this season. She's usually very annoying but there was no reason for any of what she went through. Joining the dark, seducing Evony etc. I don't get it. She was on the run the only people who knew what she did were Bo, Kenzi, Hale, Dyson, Tasmin and Trick. They knew her they knew she wouldn't do what she did willingly. So why have her join the dark side at all? I'm sure there is an off the screen reason for this, but this is something those lazy writers should of written in.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
78. Kiersten
@cmm - for the record, Doctor Lauren left before Trick revealed himself. Technically, she doesn't know that Evony was spouting off to him, but yes, it's hardly the first time Evony has gone off at how she means to kill Bo - it's how we got the Confaegion episode in the first place.

That doesnt mean the show won't work off the conceit that everyone assumes WonderLauren magically knew Trick was there. But on screen, she left her research hidey hole before he came out of the shadows and spoke to Evony
79. @doppleganger
@Apollo1 I absolutely agree. I think Kenzi is the warrior guide. But I am a bit worried the warrior and queen prophecy is more misdirection from EA ... Rosette was a warrior and died. This could be an uber build up with lackluster payoff.

If Bo has to go on an epic mission to save Lauren I will flip. This season's loss has to be about Kenzi,with Bo seriously atoning for being a terrible bestie via mission to hell.

@lonewolf I ran out of soft things. I didn't think they could raise my hackles more than twice in one ep. I do feel like the writers have given Ksenia Solo a lot of great scenes to sink her teeth into this season (credit due). I loved your plane metaphor. Kstar is gonna bring it home for us.

I am pretty sure in the promo they talk about Bo channeling her father's power from the portal (before he arises) ... so cant be Rainer? I always thought the ravens worked for someone else and were bringing potential "ones" to Rainer at his bequest. And all that talk of their decaying father ... And didn't Bo put Huggin in the jar? All this theorizing. I am sure we are giving more thought to the many loose ends and the value of continuity than the showrunners.

Lovely to gather around this particular water cooler.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
80. Kiersten
Hello again to new posters like @apollo1. It's been hard to keep up individually as I've been away, but I'm glad to see each and every one of you joining in for the first time.

A reminder that the recaps for the U.S. run of the show are posting each week. Episode 5: Let the Dark Times Roll full recap can be found here:
81. J.Fall
I find it difficult to get up in arms about The Morrigan. She killed the bride and groom at their wedding (the guests didn't look to have a better fate) so she could crash their party, didn't she? She talks about Lauren's ethics re not experimenting on humans suggesting clones. Clones are still people/Fae. She put out a hit on all humans. Lauren didn't kill her, she just gave her a relatively mild dose of her own medecine. Kind of poetic justice. The delivery method ...? I think they sabotage their characters for cheap laughs or sex scenes, Lauren is particularly a victim of this, this season. Makes a change from ... oh, Nadia, Afghanistan, eco warrior turned killer by brother. Of course a new twist could be and by the way, Lauren's the real Queen and Bo's a decoy.

Talking of decoys, Rainer could be an unwitting decoy used by Bo's Daddy. I know he's been brought in to stymie the triangle, if Tamsin wasn't enough but he's seems to be just another Nadia/Ciara/Nate figure that's presented as having a history with Bo with few of the viewers feeling it.

Tamsin: surely she has to be of some use apart from a Chi-source or another girl on girl sex scene. So far she's not brought much to the table other than a bungled spell and not really knowing who she did it all for except he's very BAD and she REGRETS everything! Bring her snark back and if you have to have the gratutious sex scene with Bo, have her smoke a cigarette and say 'Dyson's a better bang!' I might find some love in my heart for Tamsin if she did that.

Dyson has been put back in storage and it's another cheap joke to bring in a younger lookalikee in Rainer. It's hard to see how the male lead, who this season gets the whole of the female Sunshine Gang, appears so empty handed on the love front, if you pardon the expression.

As for Fae Hel, how can Lauren or Kenzi end up there, being human? Unless Lauren has ingested enough vag cream to have some exchange from Evony.

I used to enjoy encapsulating the plot so far to friends because it's totally ridiculous but the vag cream attack on Evony has put an end to that. Damn you Lost Girl, you are no longer up for a recap in polite company!!!

I'm afraid I'm looking forward to the fall out in various ship fanbases more than the finale for it's own sake. Does that make me a bad person?
82. Bore-mudaTriangle
So, whoever will die, it will have to have an emotional impact on the fans. So that is Kenzi, Lauren or Tamsin, to myself anyway. Trick could die, but I don't think that'd be the emotional one that will have us all sobbing over (though if Lauren died, I'm not sure if I'd sob). Kenzi is universally loved by basically ALL fans. Lauren and Tamsin both have 50/50. They either love or hate them. But I think the writers probably also wanted to go with a *safe* death also. In case they were not renewed for a season 5, this death would sort of make sense and we could live with it. But if they did get renewed, they'd have it be so this person who died could come back. Whoever dies *should* be the warrior, unless Bo is not the queen. And I don't see Lauren as a warrior (even though she was in a war), or queen. If she died, to be honest I would be mad only because she just made this huge "accomplishment" with vag serum and now she's off to sacrifice herself after Bo saves her from Massimo, like to me it'd just seem more to revolve important parts around Lauren, only her. And of course this will lead to Bo bringing her back and getting Doccubus back together. (so excited for that. eye roll). Kenzi to me could be a warrior that guides, because she guides Bo as she is her heart, Bo knows everything will be okay when she sees Kenzi. From the very first episode, Kenzi told Bo to "love her shit already" so she sort of helped guide her into acceptance, being who she is. Kenzi is always there for Bo. Kenzi being the queen? Could happen, and would be a twist, but with how the poem went, "a healer always by her side" (assuming it is Lauren, who else would it be? Lol.) Lauren isn't always by Kenzi's side. Sure, they help each other, but Lauren isn't there for Kenzi like she is Bo. Tamsin could be the warrior, yet she is already in the poem as the Valkyrie, not to say that she can't die either, but.. god this theory stuff is getting to me.

Anyway, my thoughts on people saying if Lauren or Kenzi die, they will come back Fae.. I would actually dislike this, because them being human gives the show that "fae and humans can work together" and "oh Bo picked humans" etc, etc. It would just take from part of the show. But I know in the end, they will either need to become Fae or immortal to stay with the gang forever and to not get old and die.

It's too long until next Sunday.
83. newgirl
I didn't knew KS was presenting for Star Wars... WOW SUPER GREAT!!! hope she got the part... but that kind of make me think... her death will be almost in the last minutes so in next season kenz doesn't have to appear so much, she would be dead, so KS can shoot small scenes for LG before it's time then the editors can mix them in the proper time, and she can go back to London that i read is where they are filming Star Wars, it's a perfect excuse so she stays in the series, but she is given time to film Star Was and a way too so we don't miss her (no way, I will definetely miss her, I think I said before she is top of my favourites in LG) So... yes i'm pretty sure Kenz will die (so sad T.T) at the very end in the chapter to leave it as expectation for the other season... don't now they may tray to stall the recovering from dead through the search of the Hekstors so they can go and back, but hey kenz for me was talking with Dyson on the promo when she said her line and you just have to see Dyson's face when he is holding back Bo... he is hurting, so Kenz is the one to die (again soooo sad T.T) and we will be left just like that for ALL summer godddd so unfair!!! i hate cliffhangers (not true, i love them, kind of contradictory feelings about them lol, i mean i like them because it leaves something for you to expect on the next season, but it keep you wondering thousands of what if... and there is the biggest fear of all when they cancel in a cliffhanger, but i don't think LG is going that way.... i won't mention that again... mm-mm), the other sad part of my theory is that maybe they safe kenz on chapter 5 or 10 and that would be pretty annoying.
I don't think she is the warrior, i wish but the warrior must die or the queen must, i think she is something like what close the portal... don't know some sort of sacrifice, to open it the fae knight that loyally swore to protect the queen was require, maybe they need the human contrapart as loyal as the knight (remember in the begenning of the season they mention again about Kenz been the one who never would betray Bo) to be sacrifice to close the portal. And lauren magical fae cure i think is what will turn Massimo back to human so Bo can kill him or whatever, because in the scene when massimo is kneeling and bo strikes him, lauren is there, maybe just because she was still in captivity but i don't think any other way bo could get near massimo unless he is human again, great promo
84. J.Fall
I'm thinking they'll all die to trigger Bo's anger ... bring on the Dark side to serve her Dad, therefore Bo's struggle is essentially with herself. She'll make a deal. Maybe one will be kept hostage to keep the door open a chink .... Duh, duh, duhhhhhhh!!!!!
Susan White
85. whiskeywhite
Chortle and "Oh dear!" award of the day to @J.Fall:
if you have to have the gratutious sex scene with Bo, have her smoke a cigarette and say 'Dyson's a better bang!' I might find some love in my heart for Tamsin if she did that.
That really is a fabulous preview. It's true -- it's a long time til Sunday.

Much as I care for the well-being of @bungluna's snowball, there is going to be some giant cliff hanger at the end of the season. So is it the death of one of the big characters? "Oh dear, can X really be dead?!" If so, it's a kind of boring repeat of last season's cliffhanger -- "Oh dear, can Dyson and Tamsin really be dead?" Surely it must be whatever happens to Bo. But that would also be a repeat of last season -- "Bo has been smokenapped! What happens to her?"

Did anyone else notice at the end of the preview the look on Dyson's face as he holds Bo back from whatever? Amazing acting. I agree that Rainer is kind of a younger version of Dyson, and he's turned out to be a bit of a dud so far. Does little else than stand around looking pretty. I'd welcome some horns -- it's definitely him in the picture --anything to make him more interesting. He's definitely outta here at the end of this season.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
86. Kiersten
I noticed the look on Dyson's face when he holds Bo back right away. The man is in serious pain. Great work from Kris Holden-Ried. I'm trying not to dwell on it much now for REASONS but I've checked my vodka stock for Sunday night just in case.
87. newgirl
@Kiersten that's exactly my point, that face Dyson have is not Lauren dying nor tamsin, at this point only kenz, we already got the taunting dead of trick at the end of 2nd season so i don't think they pull that card out again, nop this time is Kenz, so have your vodka at hand with some kleenex too T.T
88. JDKnight
It is possible that Hale's essence was transferred to Kenzi when he died so that she is now a siren. I think his family would be ok with that as part of him will continue to survive
89. T.Sian
You will think that Kenzi is the one that die, base on the promo and Dyson emotion. But let think could kill Kenzi and risk the lost many fans, if there is a season 5. Also it would be Tamsin, to have a save worldand end her call last life. And has Bo back to grave, recuse to kick their relationship once and for all. But at this point anything could happen.
90. stacymd2
@apollo1: Welcome! I truly hope 413 is good so we can look forward to season 5.

@doppelganger: EA & JF are lucky that Lost Girl has deadicated fans that put more thought into their characters and plots than their writers do.

@cmm: Super Lauren gave Evony an untested serum that may have de-Faed her or killed her or both. She didn't know. Lauren specifically taunted Evony with this then took more blood for her experiment. Real doctors tak a Hippocratic Oath to do no harm, practice medicine honestly and, "Above all, I must not play at God".

Evony said life would be easier if the Succubus wasn't around. Sadly, if Lauren had waited one minute longer she would have heard the entire conversation. When Lauren met Bo at the Dal, why didn't she blurt out I heard Evony threaten your life. She had time. They both just stood there staring at each other with "huh" looks on their faces for a minute before Rainer walked in.

To be fair to Lauren, it is tragic that she burned her last bridge after going off halfcocked again. Similar to Season 3 where she defied Hale, ignored his warning and unknowingly betrayed the Fae with Dr. Taft. She sentenced Taft to death for medical practices that she considered unethical.

@JFall: It is not that Evony isn't an evil monster that deserved punishment for randomly killing. It is the medically amoral, misogynistic, sexually demeaning and rape-y way Lauren went about it. Lauren didn't assult Evony to get justice for the dead wedding party, janitor or nail tech. She did it for Bo, who is more than capable of dealing with Evony. Even Vex and Hale has easily handled Evony.

This harks back to our previous conversations. If Dyson (or any male) had done the exact same thing to Evony for the same reasons, no one would say he was "badass" or justified. There would be no question that it was grossly wrong. Dyson restrained Selene by her neck and knocked Clio in the mouth and there was outrage.

I know you all think I harp on Lauren to much but she doesn't get 0.001% of the rage Dyson receives for just being. Even on this board we are explaining and justifying Lauren's motives and actions even though they were inhumane at best or horrific crimes at worst. I mostly liked Lauren in Season one. I have really tried to like her since, but the writers make it impossible.

@newgirl: My fondest wish for KS is that she got whatever role she auditioned for. Ksenia is immensely talented.

@Kiersten: Vodka is a great idea, but to strong for me. I'll prepare with Mimosas. If someone else drinks whiskey, the Scottish kind, we'll have a party.
91. drusilla_doll
Let's not forget Bo rails at Dyson saying 'everyone's dead except for the guy who should be'. So there have to be more deaths that Bo cares about than just Hale's earlier in the episode as a motivator for that rant about not being able to kill Massimo (I'm assuming that's who she's referring to). Why? Well, I could be wrong but I think that grave visit is not at the end of the episode. It looks like a human gravestone and Bo is wearing the necklace she found at DL's apartment. I do think Lauren will be an early tragic death in the episode but it won't stick because we already have a few outs like Levi, the Helskor shoes etc. I would love to be wrong. Maybe Tamsin takes care of Rainer for Bo before the final act and in doing so, sacrifices her own life like in Dyson's fairytale.

It does make sense that Kenzi might end up being the warrior guide foretold and Rainer's already dead by the time they end up at the 'rift open impending world doom' climactic scene.

If Bo is looking at such a horrible picture of Rainer, does that mean he WILL reveal himself as bad, after all?

We have Massimo wreaking havoc, possible evil Rainer and Pyrripus rising...sounds like a lot to deal with.

ETA: On a rewatch of the trailer, I am worried that Bo turning around, smirking with blue eyes and soldiers behind her is actually Bo/Pyrripus. She's been fully possessed by her daddy and next season is going to be the Sunshine gang trying to defeat her and exorcise her father from his control of her. Just a hunch. Also with Massimo looking fearful when she hits him, maybe somehow Lauren got Massimo to ingest some of her Magic Vag serum? LOL
92. newgirl
@T.Sian I don't think they would KILL, as in a violent way, i think she has to go through the door/portal, not be killed that's why bo is running saying "No, no" and Dyson is holding her, because if it was to get killed by anyone there, why would Dyson hold Bo?, i think Kenz has to go in the portal to close it and the portal is to Hel for the nordics that's the underworld, as Valhalla is their heaven, i don't think they kill tamsin, i like a lot her character, but we've been told SO many times that this is her last/final life that if she dies, everyone would be prepared for her dead, i don't think they use that card now, perhaps they use tamsin's last life in some other time as when bo goes rescuing kenz she goes with tamsin and to return is something like "two may enter and only two my come out" so tamsin sacrifice for bo and kenz return, don't know getting way too ahead in the history, but my question is... what is kenz doing there? she was unclaimed and off the fae world by her desicion, so in what new trouble she got herself in that she is back with the fae? Did she came back to make amends with Bo... oh boy that's really going to make the day in Bo's guiltiness... how long for the next sunday ??!!! lol
Kiersten Hallie Krum
93. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll I thought that too especially as she tells Dyson she can feel the power and it's drawing her in.
94. newgirl
@drusilla_doll, you got a point with "Let's not forget Bo rails at Dyson saying 'everyone's dead except for the man who needs to die" but lets not forget she is shreding a paper, the only one on papers so far is Rainer or her father or something like that, i don't think is massimo and about the necklace she has it on her in the scene where dyson holds her, so i think that after they come clear (Lauren and Bo), surely at the scene that shows the promo pict, lauren gives her the necklace or bo put it on herself to show lauren she trust her or that she (Bo) can be free even from Rainer you know the "For giving me the freedom to love." and all
95. newgirl
Ahh, by the way reviewing the promo (for the 20th time) Bo sucks tamsin for healing before she tells tamsin "He is basically invencible", if you see Bo is bleeding on the forehead when she goes succubus on tamsin, those scenes are misplaced, intentionally of course, so we think she get chi from tamsin to become stronger to fight him, but the "Bo's tossed around time" must be right before and when Bo said "Someone even the Blood King fears" is Rainer with whom she is talking, you can see it for his jacket, the very same he is wearing when Massimo appears, and for the looks if even Bo is not wearing the same suit from the wedding i think is near when they married because is in the exterior you can hear crickets and stuff and see the blue moonlight reflection on Bo's jacket, so i think is they run after opening the portal or somthing.
96. lonewolf
I have not watched the trailer. I usually don't, but I'm reading enough about it, so I have a good idea what's about to unfold next week. They would have to make 413 a complete and utter mess to not get another season.

@newgirl, Kenzi is there because Bo is a part of her, they complete each other. When she asked, then demanded, that Bo unclaim her it was an intensly emotional period right then. For her to truly cope with all that had been thrust upon her, she had to get away, to run. It was a reaction. She wasn't going to leave for good. It was just to let her process what had happened, she would never abandon the one person in her life that helped bring her off the streets. Kenzi, with the help from Bo, had found a family with Dyson, Trick and most importantly Hale. I think right from the start a chemistry was building between Hale and Kenzi. During S2E9, original skin, Kenzi and Hale were sitting at the table being questioned by the bolero, Hale said he didn't want the guy to know about them. And like a precursor as to what was to come, Hale/Ciara, kisses Kenzi/Dyson. Plus it was when Bo told Trick about the Nain Rouge.

And then there was S2E17, The girl who fae'd with fire. When Kenzi arrived at the Inverell, you could see a transfixed look on Hale's face. Then after he dropped her off at the clubhouse he looked back as he was leaving.

So the attachment between them was a very strong and close one already. Then came the proposal, and massimo. She was going to say yes but it was too late. And Bo telling her she couldn't save Hale was too much for her to cope with. So she demanded that Bo unclaim her, there was no hate just unthinking anger. So she ran, but she would never have abandoned Bo for good. That's why she was there.
97. JDKnight
Kenziis also the only one who can control 'monster' Bo as whenshe unbound Ryan from her at her aborted wedding and everyone else after the fight with the Garuda. There is some sort of mystical and physical bond between Bo and Kenzi of which only Trick appears to be aware - he is the one whoknew what Kenzi has to do to unbind Bo from her followerers. I am glad that Bo and Kenzi reconcile.. LG needs that relationship more than any other. I wonder what Dyson and Kenzi were talking about in the Dal and why we have not seen Kenzi and Tamsin together since Hale's death. It looked to e as though Kenzi was sitting next to the Fae Attorney General - Torie's mother - I have forgotten her title
98. JDKnight
The look on Kenzi's face after Bo unclaimed her was not anger it was pure unmitigated misery and despair. I do not think Kenzi expected Bo to unclaim her but to give her a hug and some attention in order to show that Bo thought she was more important in her life than her new boyfriend and the knight
99. Darthfaeder
@Lonewolf as to your post #9 yes the doccubus fans are and have hi- jacked the show ever since the end of season 1. Emily Andres samelessly caters to them. Well I give her a bit of a credit because she still has not put Bo and Lauren back into a monogamous relationship. Trust me the doccubus fans have been screaming for that. They also go out of their way to belittle Dyson and Tamsin who are rivals and potential rivals to Lauren for Bo's affections. Those of us who just want Bo to be single and not tied down to anyone I feel got it right. If they had followed that from the beginning and stuck with the season 1 formula they more than likely wouldn't be alienating alot of fans. Unfortunelty they didn't do that, and now so you have half the fandom
angry and disappointed, and the other half doccubus still trying to control the outcome of the show, with the Ptb spineless to do it their way.
100. TheUberFan
The current theory working around the internet is that there is more than one prophecy at play so different terms mean different things and we shouldn't make assumptions about who is being discussed.
101. lonewolf
@Darthfaeder, I have never been on twitter or tmblr so I have not seen for myself what is being said. But I have heard from others on here that these doccubus fans are very vocal and vicious. I also thought she should have, and should now, stay single. Provided she survives the event this Sunday night. Monday morning for me. So probably for the next few days I'll not be on here. (I wouldn't bet on me tho if I were you. ;) But definitely not on Sunday evening or Monday morning til I have watched it.
102. lonewolf
@Kiersten and@newgirl, is your vodka Russian?
103. JayCruz61
I have a question. What does everyone think about what Massimo whispered in Dyson's ear? Here's what he said, "YOU WILL WATCH FRIENDS DIE AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT." If you doubt this is what he whispered. Go back to that scene and listen intently, you will see it is indeed what Massimo said to Dyson.
Nadine Robb
104. cmm
I think he said he had the origin seed. Or that he at least knew where it was.
105. JayCruz61
@cmm nope he said what I said he said. I cheated a little and read the posted script for that episode. There they mentioned it.
Nadine Robb
106. cmm
That's stupid. Unless Dyson is the warrior who dies?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
107. Kiersten
Massimo whispers to Dyson: "All of your friends will die while you just watch."

After that, Dyson immediately insisted they had to take Massimo to Trick.

Closed captions for the win
Nadine Robb
108. cmm
Well that's kind of stupid. What was so important that he needed to be locked away for? How many times has an enemy said that and they've done jack squat.
109. drusilla_doll
That doesn't make any sense, though, as a reason to spare Massimo, unless Dyson suddenly believes he has a very real prophetic gift which must be delved into.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
110. Kiersten
"That doesn't make sense..." is the overall theme of the season.
Nadine Robb
111. cmm
LMAO! Very true Kiersten, very true. Him having the seed would of made waaay more sense. I'm begining to wonder if they are intentionally tanking the show? It's the only thing that would make sense to me.
113. JayCruz61
Up to now does anything in season 4 really makes sense...hmmm not particularly. If you take the time to make sure everything is quiet around you and listen intently, the claimed comment is substantiated. He is saying exactly what the script is claiming he is saying. I'm not sure where they get these scripts but read it for yourself. Here is the link...
Nadine Robb
114. cmm
It's not that I don't believe you @JayCruz61 its just that think its ludicrous. Maybe there's something I missed. But like you've said nothing in season 4 makes sense lol.
115. JayCruz61
@cmm I know and you are right. What's more puzzling is Dyson saying he was going to take Massimo to Trick and he never does haha hahaha Maybe I missed that part.. Lol
116. drusilla_doll
It's an interesting script nugget, but what I don't get is why it was whispered and why it would make Dyson not want to kill him. It makes NO logical sense.
Nadine Robb
118. cmm
Like I said before, I'm convinced EA is trying to tank the show. So she can move onto whatever.
119. lonewolf
During Bo's ceremony, there was a handmaiden sitting with Bo. A man told her to get her anything she needs, or something to that effect. So can Bo's horse daddy shape shift or did I miss something there.
120. TheUberFan
Let's add to all of this the fact we have NO IDEA what really happened to Bo on the train. None. But we know it wasn't what she thinks happened.

I'd tie in where was Tamsin during that month but I'm starting to think the show doesn't really care about that little detail and although I thought it was pretty notable that she was missing a month and we saw her as a little kid that must mean she died while she was gone, I just don't have any real confidence that they'll do anything with it. I mean they made a point of showing that Dyson went there every single day and sensed nothing for an entire month, then there she is after the memory spell was broken and she's a little tiny child. And then they show she grew up in 2 weeks. So that seems significant...but I'm not going to hope for anything meaningful explanation-wise anymore because why should I? Yes I'm bitter.

But we do know that Bo was in her white gown and very angry/distressed when she saw the crown with her name engraved on it on the silver platter and swiped it all off the table.

We also know the handmark caused her pain.

And that when she first saw the handmark she was scared of it (she's also in that same gown).

So what really happened when Bo was gone? What did she really experience on the train?
Nadine Robb
121. cmm
Initially, I thought that was Rainers doing. He seemed to press the handprint mark and she would remember. But then in this weeks episode they showed that Rainer had a mark too. So im thinking she was taken by her father, but that doens't make sense either since the crows are to have kidnapped her for Rainer. Unless she was brought to the train by the crows and while on the train she was visted by her creepy powerful father? Maybe in order for her father to return to this plane of existence he needed Rainer and Bo, which would mean that maybe Rainer faked his surprise last episode with his loyal guard.

You know what none of this would be happening if it weren't for Trick. It's all Trick's fault. First with his writing Rainer out of fae history and second for him being so damn secretive all the time. If he would of told Bo about what he did she never would of gone to the train to free Rainer. Or she might of but have been on her guard.
122. TheUberFan
I agree @cmm that Trick is largely at fault and that his secretive nature is a serious problem, but he didn't know he had cursed Rainer until after Bo had already gone on her mission of self discovery with the crow.

Besides, Tamsin warned her that the Wanderer was pure evil and that didn't make any difference because, after a brief tussle, Rainer glowed her and she "remembered" what a fantastic guy he was and not evil at all.
Nadine Robb
123. cmm
Oh I agree @UberFaenatic. But he did know about the horse thing and he knew he did something. That's what bugs me about him. I find it hilarious the whole show wouldn't exist without Trick. If he'd of just claimed his granddaughter when she was a baby, none of this would be happening now.
Suzanne Metaxas
124. SuzyM
Welcome to all the new posters :) This last episode was the pits :( I was so hopeful for this season only to see it tank into the toilet :( I too think Kenzi is the one who is going to die. I'm so tired of cliff hangers and all around trash plots and mega plot holes. I really don't care if there is a S5 at this point
Carmen Pinzon
125. bungluna
After some contemplation, I've realized that we have more questions than answers, as usual. I was so hopeful when they started tying loose ends at the beginning of this season, but now they have replaced them with so many more unanswered danglers. An as we all know, EA doesn't believe in explanations or conversations or any logical development of any sort, so I give up.

I like coming here because y'all explain what's happening to me. Our version is more exiting and makes more sense than the one on tv! ;-D
126. P2662M
I think it is most likely Kenzi that is going to sacrifice herself. I don't think she really cares at this point after the loss of Hale if she lives or dies. But, I think Kenzi, the little pickpocketer, lifted the twig from Massimo while they were all confronting him in episode 12. That would allow her to appear dead to everyone but she could come back well and alive for another season.
I agree with all the other posters out there that want to see much more Kenzi and Bo sisterly bonding and friendship back. I miss that so much. Those are my personal favorite parts of the show, when those two are together.
127. newgirl
Rewatching 411, I don't think the one trapped in Hel, the Dark One as the Knight call it, is Bo's father. I mean in the horse cult everyone reverence the horse the pyripuss but yet they don't want Bo to marry Rainer 'cause it would bring IT back, if they are in a cult for the horse i think they would love the idea of the pyripus coming into the physical plane or this dimension or whatever this world is, so why go against Bo so hard, beside they adore the pyripus calling him the one who can tell apart the rightfull from the fallen, but they have a complete fear for the one who shall come if the door is open 'cause it would bring many deads, the pyripus is Bo's father but i don't think is the one coming through the gateway, i think is someone else, maybe is the "alterego" or the other half-conscience of Rainer, the one that is pure evil and the pyripus is trapped in order to contain it, but not exactly again his will, "just" to save the world, so the one that will come is Rainer's evil memory/awareness, from a previous life, that's why he can't remember he is pure evil (asuming that now he is been completly honest and he doesn't remembers a thing), it has certain logic, i mean you get the physical embodiment to a different dimension with a curse, yet send as a failsafe the evil self to another plane of existence, so they can't be reunited, unless they broke the curse releasing the other part and it becomes a whole again, it has been done... i don't remember now if in mythology, but I've read something like that i d0n't know... in a tale, a story or something like that, is like explitting the soul, the evil part one way and the good part in other way, if anyone remember where this is mentioned please say it, but one thing i have almost sure, the one coming through that door is not only the pyripus, he is behind that door (that's why Bo can channel his energy) but maybe he is imprisioning something that is what will come through the door. So what do you think??
@lonewolf, the vodka just for Kiersten, too much for me, i will be just with my faithful kleenex box beside me, just in case lol
128. P2662M
As far as Kenzi wanting to be unclaimed by Bo, I think she felt like she
had to do that to protect Bo in order to carry out a plan she has that
could get Bo killed or in serious trouble. The painful look on Kenzi's
face when Bo unclaimed her shows how much it was something she really
didn't want in her heart but I think she needed to do. I think Kenzi
feels totally responsible for Hales death and is willing to do anything
to make up for it. Even if it means getting killed. Although I think she
may have that covered with the Twig I am assuming she lifted off of
129. P2662M
I think that Massimo whispered in Dysons ear that he knows where the sead is or something about the sead. That would make him too valuable for information to kill him.
C. H.
130. SmurfFae
I guess I'm in the minority as one who kinda liked this episode.
I don't agree with people who sarcastically consider DL = WonderLauren, since she was pretty unsuccessful this episode:
She has the worst timing with Bo, who totally doesn't get her: Doccubus foiled. She manages to pull the trick off, that Taft taught her, in reverse, making Evony human, but: After gloating she gets one on the head from her son and gets kidnapped and imprisoned for the nth time. That's one success and two fails.

@P2662: Massimo still has the twig, since he showed it to Evony ("What do i want with the rosemary?!") after he was confronted by Kenzie. But I would bet that Kenzie is going to steal the twig in 4x13, since she hasn't used her Shadow Thief skills once in a useful manner.
Suzanne Metaxas
131. SuzyM
I would like to chime in here with a thought on supposed DL hate. I think that it is more that people dislike the way the writers insist on writing Lauren and less that she vies for Bo's love. I was so happy and hopeful when they were writing Lauren and Dyson getting along. It looked like they were finally going to write Lauren as believable and likable and then BAM! Episode 412 :( No they are back to ridiculous writing and making her look like a jerk! We really need an overhaul of the writers room. There were so much that could have been done with this season! So many ideas introduced and never used! I'm not a professional writer and could have done better. Why didn't they follow through on Kenzi being a shadow thief??? Kenzi & Dyson could have gone after Massimo and Kenzi could have stolen the twig (just like docs underwear) and then Dyson could have slowly rip Massimo to pieces while questioning him and finding out what he knew. NO! they had to make Kenzi look silly, Dyson look stupid & Bo look like a bitch. Three things that would not endear them to fans. DL could have found evidence of Evony's breaking Fae law and built a case against her so the Fae Elders could have found her guilty of gross crimes and they could have taken her powers as a punishment, but NO! They had to go for more fraking campy shit. This show was never meant to be a comedy! Get a grip EA and start bringing this show back to where Lovretta started it! There was so much promise and you've managed to kill it all! OK, I'm done bitching. I'm just broken hearted that a show I loved is being turned in to mush :(
C. H.
132. SmurfFae
So Evony is Massimos's bio-mom and Vex his step-dad: His nurture is bad and his nature is worse. No wonder he ended up so messed up...
C. H.
133. SmurfFae
@SuzyM: All valid points. That confrontation was so anticlymactic and our heroes really looked pretty incompetent. I guess they wanted to keep Massimo for the finale, so the stakes would be higher with Massimo super-powerful...
134. lonewolf
Didn't the show change writers after the second season? If so that may explain part of the reason why the show has gone downhill. Maybe they all, including EA, suffer from a severe case of ADHD and keep forgetting to take their meds on time, if at all.

But I have to agree with @SuzyM, they need to get rid of the writers they presently have. And if anybody should ever take them on as writers they'd be sabotaging their show.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
135. Kiersten
@lonewolf - yes, the showrunner and creator Michelle Lovretta, left Lost Girl after the S1 along with 2 other executive producers (who now run the amazing show, Orphan Black). There was no official showrunner for S2 (outside of Firestone's executive producer God role) and things BTS were reportedly a little cray especially with the 22 episode extension, though Andras was still a producer and writer on the show. Then Andras was made showrunner for S3 and onwards and it's been sporatice at best and downhill at worse every since, unfortunately
136. JayCruz61
@lonewolf You have made my day... I'm laughing so hard over @Smurffae Massimo being Evony's son is a bit of an ewwwwww. I think it was S4 E3 where she is sucking his lips. What kind of mummy does this??? Lmaoooooo and not seeing him for 5 years c'mon. She only calls on him to fix her eye. What's next Rainer is the Wanderer's son..smh They are writing some lame you know what...
C. H.
137. SmurfFae
@SuzyM: I also liked DL arc this season. She seemed to become her own person after being a minion/slave for 3 seasons. And I also liked her interactions with Evony in earlier episodes.
But then in 4x13: It was all for Bo! (But Bo is busy saving faekind (again) and hasn't the time & nerve to talk about feelings, since the faepocalypse is imminent.) So Lauren takes her frustration out on the Morrigan. And, as mentioned here before, she's super-crude about it.
I don't think the writers wanted to paint her as a bad ass, since her next move is to get played by Massimo.
They probably wanted to give Evony a reason to get back at DL (similar to the picture Bo took in season 2) in season 5.
138. lonewolf
@Kiersten, as bad as it has been these past 2yrs. I'll give them the second season, I didn't think it was too bad. Only because they were riding on the high from the first season's tremendous build up of a fan base so quickly. If anything they have to tie up a few major threads, if not at least one. For me that would be getting this who's Bo's big bad daddy behind us. Were they to give us closure regarding that one thread, the rest may not be so difficult to tie up. And they may keep or maybe not lose anymore fans.
139. lonewolf
@JayCruz61, glad to be of service. Lets keep our fingers crossed and hope for a good ending to this last episode. Lets get rid of Bo's daddy and be done with it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
140. Kiersten
@lonewolf - I like the second season overall, but the seeds of confusion were definitely being sowed even then. Certainly they missed the chance to spread The Garuda Big Bad issue out better rather than cram it into the final few episodes as has become their style. But yes, S2 is overall good except for some pacing issues and the painful drawning out of Dyson's lost-love misery. Compared to S3 and S4 it's practically genius
141. stacymd2
Hi All! I am keeping the faith that 413 will be as good as the promo.

Regarding Massimo's whispered line to Dyson...It's another lame rewrite of the character and plot device. Since when has Massimo had foresight? Since when has Massimo said or created prophecy? There was no reason for the line to be whispered in the first place. The point of the whole scene was to get Mo into Trick's dungeon so Kenzi can feel let down by everyone, call Vex and push the story to the next plot twist. Surprise! Vex is Mo's foster daddy. Realistically, Bo, Dyson and Kenzi would have done Rock, Paper, Scissors to see who stabs him first.

As far as who may die next, my money is on Kenzi and/or Lauren. I think TPTB will throw in a random like Bruce or Vex because of Bo's line in the promo about, "everyone is dead except the man who needs to die." She would be more hysterical if either K or L had died at that point.

I don't fear the contrived cliffhanger death of a major character plot. I especially don't fear in with Lost Girl. I loved Hale but we all know KCC is on another show. TPTB are not getting rid of Bo, Kenzi, Dyson or Lauren. JF already mentioned doing more of Tamsin's background in season 5. Plus, it has already been established that Bo will try to bring someone back. Even Soaps are more subtle.

The good news about the cliche "the one" and "save the world" doomsday storylines in Sci-Fi is that they always reset the show to the status quo eventually. Buffy. Angel. Supernatural. Stargate. Being Human. It's the same thing over and over. Are we really going to see Bo "ruling the Fae", where Bo is in a boardroom meeting Fae with complaints like the Morrigan or in closed door negotiations like the Ash? No. There is no action there. There can be no Kenzi there.

I've always wondered why Super Villains and Big Bads want to rule the "world". It sounds like a pain in the ass to me.
142. lonewolf
What if, this week everybody dies except for maybe Trick. He seems to be doing a pretty good job of staying out of the spotlight for now.

Then, at the start of s5, Trick wakes them all up down in his lair and tells them that they have been asleep for the past two and a half years and what we've been watching were all their dreams and nightmares. That way they would all wake up as if nothing ever happened and we're back on the job with Bo and Kenzi kicking bad fae asses. Sounds easy enough doesn't it.
Carmen Pinzon
143. bungluna
@lonewolf - the 'last season was a dream' trick has been pulled before, but hey, anything would be an improvement on what we have now.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
144. Kiersten
Honestly, if Bo woke up, walked into her bathroom, and found Dyson in the shower a la S2 only for him to tell her she's been dreaming all this while? I'd drive back up to Toronto to French kiss Andras in thanks.
145. lonewolf
@Kiersten, I just watched the first two episodes of orphan black. I'd say there's a suprise around every corner and they all look the same ;)
I did recognize one of the actors, I think he was in Dis-members only?
The girl had a lot thrown on her plate awful fast, she's doing a good job of keeping her wits about her. And she should learn hoe to use a gun. But it is a good show. Thanks for turning me on to it ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
146. Kiersten
@lonewolf - keep watching. it only gets better and better. And yes, you'll see a lot of familiar faces. I'm convinced there are only about 25 or 30 actors in all of Canada and they all know one another and have sleepovers
147. lonewolf
I meant how to use a gun. It's late.
148. TheUberFan
Yep...Vic is Kenzi's friend in Dis-Members Only. There are others too, the most obvious is Aife. lol
149. lonewolf
I'll probably watch two episodes at a time. Then I should be up to date on what's happening. So are Graeme Manson and (Jeff?) Fawcette, are they the ones that left Lost Girl?
150. lonewolf
@Uberfaenatic, Aife, I can't remember her real name is in it also. I missed that. The reason I recognized who Victor was, was because of his voice. So what part does Aife play. I'll look for it next time I watch it which will probably be in the morning. It definitely throws a lot at you right from the start.
151. TheUberFan
She's a cop. She's suspicious of "Beth" and works with Art.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
152. Kiersten
@lonewolf John Fawcett and yes, those two along with Michelle Lovretta were executive producers of LG S1

Inga Cadranel aka Aoife plays Detective Deangelis on OB and Michael Mando, aka Vic the Dick on OB, played Kenzi's friend Neville in (Dis)Members
153. lonewolf
@Kiersten and @Uberfaenatic, Thanks for the heads up. Inga, check out Cats of Mt. Washington and check Inga. I know you'll both like what you see.
Susan White
154. whiskeywhite
@P2662M, that's a very interesting idea:
As far as Kenzi wanting to be unclaimed by Bo, I think she felt like she had to do that to protect Bo in order to carry out a plan she has that could get Bo killed or in serious trouble. The painful look on Kenzi's face when Bo unclaimed her shows how much it was something she really didn't want in her heart but I think she needed to do.
I did think it was odd that she looked so pained after she got what she wanted.

On the subject of the Twig, you argue that Massimo still has it, since he showed it to Evony ("What do I want with the rosemary?!"). I thought of that too, so I looked closely and what she picked up was a little bottle, not the Twig, which we have now seen often enough to know what it looks like.

Michael Mando, of "(Dis)members Only" and "Orphan Black" has been nominated for Canada's equivalent of an Oscar/Emmy (a Canadian Screen Award) for his acting on Orphan Black. He was excellent there and I remember noticing how good he was in his little part on LG.

Saw Rob Archer (Bruce) recently on "Beauty and the Beast" (as a big, tough looking body guard type, of course). A non-speaking role and he got no screen credit (boo).

Speaking of Canadian actors, I think we make too much of KCC having another TV show. They could have worked it out if they really wanted him. Actor Stephen Lobo has major roles in two Canadian series, as 'Dev' in "Arctic Air" and as 'Kellog' in "Continuum". "Arctic Air" films in northern BC or Alberta and the Northwest Territories while "Continuum" shoots in Vancouver. He manages it. No doubt in part because their seasons are at different times, but still. Ditto for KHR being on both LG and "The Listener" (albeit in a much, much smaller role).
155. Stacymd2
Happy Valentines Day! I hope your day is filled with love. Let's hope Lost Girl loves us back on Sunday.
C. H.
156. SmurfFae
@stacymd2: I really wonder where the hel-shoe-plot is going to end up. I somehow can't imagine DL/Kenzie/Dyson dieing and Bo going after one/more of them. If she'd go so far to go to Hel and back for one of them, why not for Hale?
I guess the line 'everyone's dead...' is referencing Rainer: Since it's the season finale, all the guest stars are going to get culled ... and I don't think Rainer's fate will be left open. (I'm presuming Kyle Schmid has a rather tight schedule. And the LG-writers probably have no guarantee he'll be available next season.) Then Tamsin will be able to give him a proper ride to Valhalla and be able to be redeemed for past mistakes.

I rather liked the whole Wanderer story arc. Rainer was obviously set up by Bo's dad to be first rescued by Bo to be able to rescue Bo's dad in turn. I liked, that the identity of the Pyrippus was hinted at as early as in 3x09 and 3x11. I liked, that the whole mysteries in the first half of season 4 (Why was Bo kindnapped? By whom? Why did she lose her memory? Why did she leave herself messages and what do those messages mean?) where resolved logically in the second half.

I get the feeling, the writers where planning for DL, to become more of a self-confident, self-relying badass who gets shit done. Only to backpaddle at the end of the season and return to the status quo (EAs comfort zone?): She's only comfortable as part of a boring triangle, submissive of Bo and has a tendency to become doe eyed damselindistress with occasional sciencemcguffins if the plot calls for it. (The damselindistress part seems now extra-trite after her treatment of poor Evony.)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
157. Kiersten
Happy Valentine's Day, posters. Thanks for regularly being awesome.

Maria Payne
158. Georgiana2494
Happy Valentine's Day everybody!

On a side note I saw the movie Vampire Academy and noticed that the kick ass girl, Rose, was dressed as mini Bo. Leggings, leather jacket and boots. It was great.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
160. Kiersten
Of course, there's absolutely nothing in that article about Dyson or Trick or Tamsin. Apparently, they don't count anymore. Lots and lots and lots about Doctor Lauren though. Because she's awesomesauce...and apparently the star of the show who can do no wrong even when she murders humans and spybangs another women in order to rewrite said woman's DNA against her will. But she a bad person, so it's heroic of Doctor Lauren to do that. After all, she's doing it all for Bo, which makes it OK. But don't give up your love/soul on Bo's behalf or regularly get beat up and tortured defending her, because that deep self-sacrifice is just you being a patriarchal, pathetic asshole who wants to control Bo.

Bitter? No. Weary and frustrated? Endlessly.
161. lonewolf
I wonder, even if he has her at his place, if Evony will give him the mamamassimo kiss for Valentine Day.

And to all, A Very Happy Valentines Day!!

@Stacymd2, let's hope indeed that Lost Girl loves us back on Sunday.

I was just thinking also, when Acacia told Tamsin that "dead is not being dead (I'm just paraphrasing there) if she was alluding to Rainer going to the battlefield to raise his army from the dead.

I haven't taken another look at the end of 412 but it looked like the glow on Rainer and Bo had a blueish color to it much like the color of what was coming out of the tomb at the horse cultures place. It almost looked like a salute or a pledge of some kind. But I still think Rainer is Bo's father. Unless the pyripuss is a shifter, which could be possible, I guess.

One other thing about Bo's being on the train, she wanted off the train right up until she saw the butterfly. As soon as she saw it, it came to life and then Rainer takes her hand and says, *it is you* then he's telling her to go and she comes up with this* what about us,* line. she turns and leaves and the next thing their in each others arms. After that we see them in bed and she's missing stop after stop, etc.

So we have the butterfly on the train, something from her past when she was 7, and how it got there we'll never know. Just stick the butterfly on the train. Then they are in bed for what must have been a month.

So, there in bed, she tells him her plan as to how she will find her way back to him. Then he glows her for the first time. Maybe then she just goes to her car and gets dressed in the gown we see. Then she just lays down and waits for the compass to be broken and she wakes up with no memory of her time with Rainer. But Rainer knew about the compass and that Dyson and Kenzi would find it soon and break it. About the crown being swept off the table and her looking to be in distress when she's looking in the mirror. But that's pretty much all we know. Who cares about details, certainly not EA and the writers.

For Tamsin, from what I read about nordic myth, when a valkyrie dies they are reborn of the earth. But, like you say she wasn't found by Dyson til after the memory loss was taken care of. Then Dyson finds her. But like you say, any kind of meaningful explaination is not something we'll get. Otherwise the writers would have suffered many a sleepless night trying to come up with one.

During Bo's ceremony, she saw in a room, a man singing to baby. He tells the handmaiden (wonder, was she blonde)to get her whatever she needs. Like on the tarot cards all we see his him from behind. Then of course Aife shows up and steals baby Bo. Bo comes out of the temple and gets her neon glow on and sucks chi out of Kenzi, DL/ Trick and Stella, to bring Dyson back. And she goes on about how she is his daughter and together they will *bridle the masses*, horses get bridled don't they. Then we have Trick downstairs looking at the picture of what most certainly is the pyripuss and a *not him*line.

So what it all comes down to for me is the five W's, who, what, when where and why. Hopefully some of those w's can be crossed off the list come Sunday, only to be replaced by other w's. Enought with the rant, I think I'll watch a couple OB episodes, they'll be E3x4, then maybe a coupls more later.

Happy Valentines Day!
162. J.Fall
If Lauren seduced Hitler and turned him into a card carrying conscientious objecter after he'd goosestepped around the bed in celebration there'd be people here that complained of rape and his right to be a genocidal monster.

Evony had a hit out on Bo all the way through Season 3 and told Tamsin she wanted her head besides all her other careless kills and driving her proteges to sucide. Poor Evony my foot. Get a grip people.
While I may not take joy in Lauren's method, Evony is carelessly and dismissively corrupt and evil and any payback can't come too soon especially delivered by a human. Lauren was hardly going to take part in a Melt-off, was she? I do, however, think Lauren has hardened through her experiences and this seems to be coming into play that's if there is any logic in characterization at all.

From EA's article it sounds to me as if Lauren will have a similar struggle with her powers to Bo and might end up as some kind of Uber Taft.

By the way poor Taft, why didn't Dyson arrest him, he's a policeman but he ate him instead and picked his flesh out of his teeth. Wasn't that roundly celebrated here.

Two monsters brought down by the Happy Sunshine Gang with methods that go against their professional roles. Dyson and Lauren often mirror each other. The bombs and magic shoes were both weapons and were activated to both Lauren and Dyson's heartfelt regret. To my mind Dyson always gets the more sanitized part of triangular mirroring so I always assume he will prevail even if it's because he may outlive both Lauren and Tamsin.

I get quite exasperated at fan bias. I'm glad Dyson has some agency back, whether he goes on with Bo or not, it would be good for his character to have options. Even KHR realises how stagnant his wolf bond has become. I suspect Dyson fans think it guarantees a win if he can't love anyone else that means Bo has to be his. In the present climate he'd need to get to the back of the queue because even if you take Lauren out of the picture, Rainer and Tamsin are jostling for position.

I'd like to see Dyson be more of a challenge for Bo and get his mojo back. It's been sadly missing. I'm not sure what that was with Tamsin but if they're going to go for that, I wish they'd put a bit more effort into the set up. Now Hale's gone, I prefer Dyson and Kenzi, that is a well developed relationship I'd like to see explored further.
163. TheUberFan
Has Lost Girl been renewed?

"Well we don't have "official" confirmation but we have the next best thing. The Lost Girl team have just sent out a Casting Call for Season 5 of the Show. As soon as we know more we'll be sure to post."


And yes I saw the questions about Lauren and such that were answered...and Tamsin's name in passing by the questioner but not named by EA. So boo to that. :(
Kiersten Hallie Krum
164. Kiersten
@JFall - I found the teeth-picking amusing as an ad-libbed actor's character moment but not excusable, no. We have frequently noted here how cavalier the show is when it comes to Fae killing Fae. Also, Dyson couldn't have turned Taft over to the human police. His main job as a cop is to keep Fae issues off the human radar. Taft murdered Fae on both sides. If Dyson turned him in, he would have had to expose the Fae to detail the crimes. Plus, DL had made Taft Fae by then, probably for the sole purpose of removing him from human rules and sticking him solely under Fae jurisdicition (crafty and diabolical but effective) but he still isnt Light or Dark Fae, so the Fae "justice" system has no parameters for him, which means overall Dyson was within his rights and his duty to kill him. But again, that's applying logic to a show that isn't interested in being logical.

My repeated issues with Doctor Lauren is that she is frequently and erroneously held up as the hero or the savior when she's doing equally if not more horrible things to people (and usually these are humans) and to those other's claim she is "saving" when those other people are derided for doing actual heroic things (not just Dyson) that involve self-sacrifice and significant personal cost. FTR Dyson has never gotten a free-pass from me, but I do think his character more than any other on the show is regularly abused and belittled for the entertainment and satisifaction of a specific fan faction. Just look at S4E5 and following.

Evony is carelessly and dismissively corrupt, yes, but that doesnt excuse how others (like Doctor Lauren) choose to combat that corruption. She definitely needs a comuppence, but stooping to Evony's level or lower to do it doesn't make it right or justifiable and only belittles the doer. That DL seems to be the only character not only not held accountable but actually celebrated for such behavior is disturbing. More importantly, on a show created with the ethos of no-labels (however far its strayed from that philosophy) and strong women/women power, to have one woman character repeatedly use sex against other women to advance secret agendas, in this case with shocking, possibly irrevocable, consequences, is deeply disturbing and not at all campy, fun, or entertaining. To have it celebrated and applauded just makes it worse. And Doctor Lauren revelled in it. She was smug and satisified, which is fine for a villain, but that's not how she's being portrayed, is it? Again, reverse the genders: If a male character had done exactly the same thing to Evony, would the reactions be the same? Unlikely.

I have long been a proponent for Doctor Lauren's to get her "mad" scientist on and go openly against the Fae. It would make her character infinitely more interesting than it ever has been, as it has this season where she seemed to finally be coming into her own power...right up until she claimed it had all been for Bo. Agency eliminated again.

You're right, it's passed time for Dyson to get his mojo back and for Bo to realize how great she had/has it with him. S4 seemed headed in that direction as well, right up until the whole "Rainer is my destiny" bullshit got shoved down our throats and Doctor Lauren's agency got all undone again for the sake of boring doccutopia. But Tamsin, as S4 has continued to show, is not and never has been a romantic option for Bo outside of admiration, respect, and a power chi suck. Unfortunately, if there's one thing that's certain on LG, it's that charactization and plot will never, ever follow any logic.

Dyson and Kenzi as lovers is a deal-breaker. No way. No how.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
165. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic - while I have absolutely no information whatsoever, I also have absolutely no doubt that S5 of Lost Girl will happen.
166. TheUberFan
I know you'll be surprised by this, @Kiersten... :D but I don't agree that "Tamsin is not and never has been a romantic option for Bo." I think S3 did quite a bit of set up; and though S4 is a let down in that regard for me, it hasn't removed it as an option at all. Tamsin has feelings for Bo and we know there is attraction at the very least between the two. And yes, respect, admiration and chi suckage.

Whether the show goes down that path or not is another thing. But there's nothing concrete that states it's off the table. And I certainly wouldn't gage this Bo's opinion on much of anything given I think she's screwed in the head right now.
Nadine Robb
167. cmm
I have to say after this episode I am back to really dislking DL. I still have a problem with what she did to Evony because it invalidates what she said last season about being appauled by what Taft did. If she was really so appauled she would of never of done what she did to Evony. Also I can't understand the logic. So she's de'faed Evony, what's to stop Evony from hiring someone to kill Bo the old fashioned human way. Furthermore, she's taken out Evony. What's to stop someone else bigger and badder than Evony coming up to replace her and killing DL later. It would seem only logical that the dark would find out what she did and make her enemy number 1. Killing Dl woudl unite both sides of fae imo. Anyone with the type of knowledge to do what she does would be detrimental to both sides and be killed.
168. TheUberFan
That's a very good point @cmm. Remember, last season, Evony went after Bo several times but she always used proxies. She sent Vex...she sent Bruce. And at the very beginning of Confaegion, Bo and Kenzi are discussing the wide variety of other fae they'd had to deal with courtesy of the Morrigan.

So all Lauren did was succeed in making a very powerful enemy at a time when we really need to have all eyes focused on the major prophecy end of the world scenario she was trying to bring to Bo's attention. Why would she do that?
C. H.
169. SmurfFae
@lonewolf: Yes, the blue butterfly is the biggest unresolved mystery to me. (Besides Tricks comment in 4x09: "I'm the first son of the earth!" What's that about?)
About all those magic mindwipes: It's not totally clear what made everyone forget about Bo. Trick's curse and Bo's travel to the train? Massimo's potion that collected her? Another spell (by Rainer or Bo's dad)?
(When she returns to the train of her own free will no one forgets her again, because she breaks the curse?)
Well, to me those are mere details ;) I don't think we'll ever learn the machanics of how breaking the compass made Bo forget about Rainer ... I figured, she was ripped out of his world (by breaking the compass/ people remembering her) so she could no longer remember him.

When Rainer gives her The Mark there's a cut and then we see Bo waking up mindwiped, but we don't see her losing consciousness after getting The Mark, there's just a cut. So the scene in front of the mirror is after she receives TM, but before she wakes up. The scene with the crown happened before the butterfly, I guess.

(So if Tamsin was reborn from the earth she probably spent the month in the earth?)
Nadine Robb
170. cmm
When Rainer gives her The Mark there's a cut and then we see Bo waking
up mindwiped, but we don't see her losing consciousness after getting
The Mark, there's just a cut. So the scene in front of the mirror is
after she receives TM, but before she wakes up. The scene with the crown
happened before the butterfly, I guess."

It's weird though cause Rainer had the mark too in the last episode and it caused him pain the same as Bo. I'm not sure who gave her the mark anymore.
C. H.
171. SmurfFae
@J.Fall - The 'poor Evony' was ironically. Of course she deserves everything horrible that happens to her, alone for the unforgivable crime of trying to taser (and later kill) Kenzie in season 3.
It's just, that normally the 'heroes' take the moral highroad and the way she humiliates the Morrigan and gloats would be more the M.O. of a villain. Or Bo in 4x04 towards Massimo ("You are a hot mess.")
But they are both Dark, so I'll allow it ;)

But Bo should in 4x04 have thought along the lines of "Don't humiliate an opponent unless you are sure you are able, and want, to eliminate him altogether. Otherwise you'll simply make an enemy for life." (by Steven Sample)
Massimo took it personal. And her actions bit Hale in the ass. I'm sure the (former?) Morrigan will take it better. Not.
172. TheUberFan
So if Tamsin was reborn from the earth she probably spent the month in the earth?
But why did she show up only directly after, if not simultaneously to, the memory curse being eradicated? The fact that these two seemingly unrelated events happened at the same time is a puzzle.
The scene with the crown happened before the butterfly, I guess.
I still don't think the butterfly scene happened at all.
C. H.
173. SmurfFae
@cmm - When Bo returns to the train and Rainer touches her Mark and glows her, she is also glowing him around the area his Mark appears later. There is a LOT of glowing involved in that scene. It could be Bo's Mark ;)
174. Darthfaeder
@Stacymd2 per post #141 yeah I agree with you that just because someone dies on LG doesn't mean they stay dead. The only question
I have is who's grave is it that Bo is kneeling over in the promo pic?
I suppose that it could be Hale's grave and probably is, but if it isn't
his, then whomever it is that dies probably stays dead or they wouldn't
bother with the headstone.

One of the main questions I have is how well is it going to go over now that Lauren has turned Evony into a human. How will the Dark Elders
take that sort of news? Will she become enemy numero uno? If she is about to do that to a fae will the whole faedom come for her to eliminate a threat?

@Kiersten per post #146 Sleepovers huh??? That is hilarious good one!
Nadine Robb
175. cmm
@smurfae Oh I know that part. I'm just saying with last weeks episode. I'm not sure that Rainer gave it to her. Unless weird theory, somehow Rainer is incomplete and what is rising out of the fire is the rest of him?
176. TheUberFan's kind of funny you suggested that. I've been wondering if Rainer is split...that Tamsin met the demon him and Trick cursed the "good" him....and now he's rising and will be combined into a single dark force.
177. Bore-mudaTriangle
There are so many theories going around. One about different dimensions and someone different dies in each one and Bo has to choose which one is her true dimension, so basically chooses who dies. One about she is still in the Dawning, that none of this is really even happening, that the character changes all have to do with how Bo perceives them. There are sooo mannyyyy.

My only thing about the different dimension theory is that though we have seen out of character things from most characters, and little changes like Tamsin changing her jacket at the end of 4x11 and I guess different people are wearing the same necklace in 4x13 (dimension glitches, I would say), I think we would have seen more of these things throughout the season, not just towards the end. I can go back and watch the season and see if there are little changes with people's clothing, jewelry, etc. but I think if it is not noticable enough, then it isn't there.

Sunday is almost here! :D
Kiersten Hallie Krum
178. Kiersten
I dont believe this show is subtle enough to layer those sorts of clues in all season. There's too much we know to be pure sloppiness or deliberate disregard of plot and character to mark some things as being clues of alternative dimensions. The Dawning is over. It had a start and an end and even EA has said categorically that it was a one-shot deal. That's not to say she wasn't lying again or capable of walking back from that again, but there's too much that has been real-world in the time since (like, say, all of Taft and Crystal that had nothing to do with Bo at all) to make that work. Tamsin's jacket was different because she changed her jacket. That's it. I have very enjoyed seeing what little they have connected back to season 3 etc about Pyrrhus or whatever (like seeing your child finally remember how to walk...or stumble may be mroe apt) but I think those are the limits of the show's layering capabilities.

I do think there's something about the duality of Rainer's nature and the question of Bo's father Pyrrhus or whatever yet to be fully played out (every time I write that name I Freudian slip into "priapism"). It's been established that Bo's father has the ability to bring people back from the dead and Bo has played with that power a few times herself as far back as season 2. I much rather see that play out that more shennanigans to suddenly retcon The Dawning.
179. lonewolf
Well I think we can all agree where this business with the train started with the end of S3 when she was spirited away by Hugin from the Dal. Then I guess that's when the thirty day memory loss started and Tamsin went off the road. Dyson survived, but Tamsin died, I guess. The *born of the earth* I got from reading about nordic myth. So I'm the one who got that ball rolling. How long it took for a new valkyrie to be reborn it didn't say. So maybe the TPTB just decided it would be easier to have both the memory loss to memory regained timeline coincide with Dyson finding young Tamsin. As for Tamsin being born from the earth and how long did it take for her to be reborn? There are two ways to maybe determine that. One is to do actual research on it and the other is to fill in the blanks as best you feel is right. I may look into it further, But for now I'll go with it's just coincidence.

164@Kiersten, Just knowing that what he was picking out of his teeth was a person/half assed fae that he just had for lunch made me laugh and gross me out at the same time. But I didn't really have a problem with what he had done because of Taft torturing the fae the way he did. And like you said, his not being dark or light did make him an exception to the fae rules. Just like when everybody would tell Bo they couldn't protect her because of her being unaligned.

As for DL, she left any real morals or ethics behind at her light fae apt. when walked out for the last time. That's how I see it, I'm sure many will disagree. But her making Evony human the way she did was highly unethical. Even if what she did was for Bo because all she heard was Evony talking about killing her.

Dyson and Kenzi is definitely a not happening deal. But I do not think Dyson and Bo should get back together. Knowing TPTB they would probably try to work that triangle in somehow to appease the doccubus fans. Then they can trash Dyson some more, not that they haven't stopped, and probably never will anyway. Dyson should find someone else, I'd like to see Angel myself. And Bo should stay single for awhile.

166@UberFaenatic, Tamsin and Bo having a romantic relatioonship could be a possibility, but I think that would be a longshot. But one never knows, she is definitley screwed in the head.

172@UberFaenatic, it is quite possible that the butterfly didn't exist. But it was when he saw her bring the butterfly to life it was the clincher for Rainer. He told her to leave, she did and 10 seconds later she's in his arms and they spend thirty days in bed, on train, getting their glow on. I did not notice a cut on anyone tho, I'll have to watch them over again. But yes, there is the possibility that the butterfly scene was not real. A very real possibility.

And finally @Kiersten and UberFaenatic, I picked out Aoife and I recognized the lieutenant, he was in the temple, correct. What is his name. I just watched E3/4 earlier, as Beth she most certainly had to learn to use gun. I wasn't expecting it to be who it was. But the show has grabbed me. I'll have something to watch besides a Lost Girl marathon after this season is done. Does anybody know if KS got the Star Wars part?
180. lonewolf
When Bo was in the temple she saw a man standing next to a crib with a handmaiden nearby. Bo later said it was her father, if so and the pyripuss is her father then he would be a shifter would he not.
182. stacymd2
Argh! I walk away but you suck me back in. Why can't I quit you H&H? Why!?!

@JFall: Wow, Hitler? That is a grossly offensive straw man argument.

Kiersten already said what I was going to write about Dyson's job is to hide the Fae from humans and there was no way for him to arrest and prosecute Taft in the human world without exposing the Fae. Thanks to Wonder Lauren's magic science, Dr. Taft became Fae and suject to Fae Laws anyway.

Evony is the Morrigan, ruler of her Dark Fae territory. Lauren is a subject and employee of the Dark Fae. Evony hired her, gave her a place to live and tools to continue her own research. Lauren betrayed her employer, her employer's people and used the Dark Fae laboratories against them. Evony's degradation and abuse was just a bonus for Lauren.

I felt Lauren was angry and if her conversation with Bo had gone differently, she would not have degrated Evony the way she did. Lauren was trying to "save" Bo but was also taking her frustrations out on Evony. She feels the Fae have wronged her and treated her badly. Her actions were unnecessarily cruel. She didn't just defeat an enemy or take out a threat, she sexually demeaned someone.

Lauren took charge of her life & agency by getting rid of her morals, Hippocratic Oath & dignity all for her ex-girlfriend. The triangle is stagnant, but thanks to 412 no one is more stagnant than Wonder Lauren Super Scientist, M.D.

"To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy." Sun Tzu. I guess Lauren will become a murderer like Evony...Oops! She is already a murderer. Maybe Lauren will dress better, stop justifying her actions and just kill for fun.

Lauren & Dyson are not the same. Dyson had no idea what the Hel Shoes would do to Flora. It was a tragic mistake.

Lauren made pipe bombs and gave them to her brother who she knew was going to detonate them. Whining that people "were not supposed to be there" is ridiculous. She is blaming the dead for being where they were not supposed to be. Lauren must have been old enough to beaware of the many attacks involving bombs in the human world. Lauren even said she was a terroist, "trying to change the world". To top it off instead of giving her victims justice, she ran from punishment.

IMHO, the Fae saved Lauren from a life on the run or a life in Federal prision/death row. Her moaning about how hard she has it because of the Fae is like nails on a chalk board. Lauren has her own things/clothes/apt., is well fed, does her own medical research which she has published and gotten an award for. She has had two girl friends. She comes and goes as she pleases. The Fae must pay her because she seems to have money. That necklace didn't buy itself. Fugitives and prision inmates do not live like this.

@cmm & @UberFaenatic: I agree. As soon as the other Dark Fae find out she is human, Evony is as good as dead. Lauren essentially handed Evony a death sentence, just as she did Dr. Taft. The door is open for a new Morrigan. One who will not be the push over that Evony has been for 4 seasons now.

The Light has had 4 Ashes in 4 years. I hope TPTB bring on a new badass Morrigan. I love EV, but I am disgusted that her character is sexually humiliated season after season. (on a program that claims to be sex positive and anti-slut shaming no less)

@SmurFae: Maybe Trick is a Titan like Cronus, son of Gaia & Uranus who created the Earth, Sky and ancient Gods. He could be the first son of primordial deities. The first Fae. I hope the writers explore Fae myth/history and the interesting characters next season instead of taking Lost Girl down the Mutant X route.

@lonewolf & UberFaenatic: You bring up great points about Tamsin. There are so many unanswered questions. I don't think Lost Girl will address them at all.

@lonewolf, @newgirl @JayCruz61: You guys/gals have written some great comments. I've really enjoyed reading H&H this season---yes, even the comments that I don't agree with.

@Kiersten: I can't wait to read your recaps for 411 - 413. I'm more excited for those than Sunday's episode.

@DarthFaeder: I think the headstone is either Hale's or a random's such as Vex or Bruce. Rainer is also on the chopping block. It could be his grave she visits. Rainer is her "destiny". If D/K/Ta/Tr/L dies, Bo will bring them back next season somehow.
Carmen Pinzon
183. bungluna
All hail WonderLauren the science chic!

I'm sorry, but I don't find any redeeming value in any of her actions. Never mind that the utter lack of even a modicum of effort in making said science actually make sense. (Because we all know that transforming someone's DNA is as easy as carpet-munching!)

I'm sick to death of the contortions made to justify the actions of this character. She gropes a POW (but it was lurv at first sight!), she spy bangs her (but it was for her own good), she violates her Hypocratic oath six ways to Sunday (but it doesn't really count 'cause them's fae, not humans!), she avoids at all cost the consequences of her actions, but hey, she's WonderLauren, heroine supreme!

To me, the good guys are justified in their actions as long as they are willing to live with the consequences of said actions. If Lauren had killed Taft and the Morrigan, all well and good. But nooooo. She transformed them to pass the buck to someone else to take care of the problem for her, getting some sick enjoyment out of it in the meantime.

What she did to the Cabit and Taft was not right. What she did to the Morrigan was beyond wrong. Kill the witch and have done with her, but don't violate her in so many levels. Dr. MingeLauren deserves to be tried at the Fae Haigh, not praised for her "agency".
184. lonewolf
@bungluna, I agree, but.....BO: But Kenzi, she's a doctor!

Kenzi: Yeah, right!
When the show first came on I thought, don't be so hard on DL. But, as the epidodes and seasons went by I started to agree with Kenzi. Everything that was said about her has been brought to light But can she redeem herself in anyway.
185. JayCruz61
@stacymd2 thanks I'm glad you are enjoying H & H. Ok so I am still on this reproduction kick, trying my best to understand how these FAE's create and if this snow would stop and give us a break here in the North East, perhaps I can get my read on in here and participate Ok back to my question. How does the creation of Fae and humans work. Are they half breeds or what? I'm asking this because, Bo is a half breed and seems to exude all of the Fae powers and like wise her mom. I don't really understand how Bo is part human seeing that her father is the Wanderer and her mom is Aife. Perhaps, through her mom. However, we never got Aife's lineage am I mistaken or what? Concerning this subject, Massimo is the Morrigan's son but how in the hell is he 100% human relying on some twig for survival seeing that his mother is the leader of the dark Fae and has had all of these powers prior to Lauren's appropiation of them as she turned her human.
186. TheUberFan

I believe the show put some of this out there in season 1 that the fae are a separate genus.

So...for us it's:
Genus: Homo ... Species: Sapien (Human)

For them it's:
Genus: Fae ... Species: Succubus
Genus: Fae ... Species: Leanan sídhe
Genus: Fae ... Species: Valkyrie

Bo is no part human. Being raised by humans, she has adopted their attitude about life, by and large, and of course Kenzi is her heart and helps her maintain the right outlook on life and humanity and general.

She is definitely a genetic mixed bag, but predominantly succubus, which is why she has the powers of and feeding signature of other succubi. But her grandfather was a powerful blood sage, which has influenced her own abilities (see Ryan and the cheesy Niagara hotel).

We know nothing about her father's side, other than he has the power over life and death and is incredibly powerful.

Oh and is a horse from hell. But other than that, nothing. ;)

Also, the show also established that any fae/human hybrid cannot and does not have any fae powers, per the second episode of season 1. So good follow through for them to show that Evony's offspring with a human would necessarily be human.

And now we have a second example of fae/human offspring who either slightly emotionally off kilter or, in Massimo's case, totally wacko.
187. JayCruz61
@UberFaenatic thank you, thank you, thank you. I think I have to go back to the beginning because I'm missing something. You do clear it up for me but when I'm watching it, i'm overlooking something concerning this subject... Massimo and psycho/wacko are synonymous, for
188. TheUberFan
No worries...@JayCruz61.

As for how Lauren's vagina serum can change a Genus: Fae/Species: Leanan sídhe into Genus: Homo/Species: Sapien...

I'm going to go with they thought it would be cool. But frankly it makes her short sighted and cartoonishly super smart.

It also makes her dangerous and by emotions rather than reason, which is kind of the opposite of what she had been from the start.

She now poses a huge threat to the fae. All fae. And she displayed this power at about the worst time possible in a way that is certain to make her fae enemy uno once word gets out she has super science powers that mutate them against their will into human beings.

There's one thing to create hybrids by using stem cell/gene therapy and imbuing the powers of the fae into a human...but to inject the notion that she can change a fae into a human with a topical solution she applied on her lady parts is so disruptive because it's patently absurd.

And given it's on a show about succubi, wolves and yes, mermaids lol that's really saying something.

They need to stop trying to super Lauren up because it makes her less appealing. It's one thing to see her using her mind and talents to push back against the fae, but that's not what they've presented...either in her presumed motivations (which timeline wise do not mesh) nor in her execution.
189. lonewolf
@UberFaenatic, if indeed the pyripuss is Bo's father, would he have to be a shifter to be able to mate with Aife? And also, the butterfly isn't real, does that mean her running back into his arms instead of getting off the train wasn't real either. Some of what happened on the train doesn't make any sense.
190. TheUberFan
@lonewolf...I'd say he's a shifter of some sort...but I don't know if that's just another indication of how powerful he is as opposed to an indication of his species.

I don't think any of the memories from Waves were real. I rewatched Bo on the train from Sleeping Beauty School, and the raw memories Ianka's memories uncovered...and there are too many inconsistencies to the perfect, idealistic scenario Bo believes happened via Waves.

For instance, the handmaiden didn't seem to know her all that well in Sleeping Beauty School, didn't know she was a succubus for instance, and was distressed that Bo would "anger him."

In Waves, she was much more open with Bo, telling her Rainer was a good man and they all needed her help. That's catnip to Bo, who tries to help whenever she can. In Waves, there's no scary "him" mentioned.

Also in Waves, Bo believes she stayed on the train initially because the handmaiden told her she'd evaporate if she jumped off mid stream. Well, Bo jumped off and had no problems. No evaporation.

Dyson and Clio jumped off mid motion and they didn't evaporate either.

I think the butterfly was a part of the entire mind fae on Bo so that she would willingly break Rainer's curse and want to trust him. So the first thing they do...she's not sure of it but she just "knows" he's not a bad guy.

It's possible that he's not and that he's being manipulated too but I think even if that's the case, it's short lived. He's still acting like a good guy after the events of either he truly is a good guy or he's really manipulative and still needs Bo to think he's good for awhile longer.

This seems to be the most possible scenario because we saw him glow Bo...and we saw the crown next to him on the train.

Either way, my current working theory is the dark lord is the Wanderer. "But RAINER'S the Wanderer" you might say. Yes, he is.

I think they're both the Wanderer, split in two, which is why Tamsin's version is nothing like Rainer, nor is the scary stories Vex and the others have about the Wanderer.

If true, this would make sense because Rainer was cursed to be forgotten...but his dark self was not. So he is remembered, just not all that active on this plane.

I think that one thing we'll see in the finale is Rainer being integrated with his demon self, the dark lord, and fully reveal himself for the monster he is.

But I also think the Wanderer serves the hell horse, the Pyrripus. I'm thinking that maybe the Pyrripus was one of those trapped on the death train... ?

So... bad things are coming.
191. doppleganger
So, Orphan Black is amazing. No wonder it is up for so many Geminis. It's a bit darker than early LG, but tight, compelling storytelling and fantastic acting.

I read the EA interview, and found some of her answers laughably out of touch ...

"But I really think we strive to tell a story. You can really get caught up with just paying fan service and then I really just feel the show makes nobody happy. So, I don’t pay attention to the particulars of fan service."

And then this nugget, which makes me nervous: "the finale is extreme in a lot of ways .... I'm pretty pleased with it and I don't think anyone is going to be neutral about it."
Nadine Robb
192. cmm
EA is a good liar. She's not stupid she knows there is fan service if there wasn't Lauren would be made to face her consequences.
193. JayCruz61
@doppleganger and cmm EA is a bit of an asshole, for sure and like I have stated many times before, arrogant. Like most egocentric writers on one hand they dis there fanbase by saying they don't pay attention to us and our opinions and the next how much they need us for their continued seasons... smdh Their failure to recognize that we (the audience/viewers) can either make or brake their shows being renewed is beyond me...
194. TheUberFan
Labeling EA that way is a bridge too far for me @JayCruz61, though I do think she's kind of kidding herself if she truly believes she's not influenced or swayed by fans or engages in any fan service.
195. nypinta
I'm posting this before I read the comments because there are sooooo many and I just finallly got to see the episode. But I have seen a few comments on tumblr and twitter that I'll be musing on too.

The first being where Val and Hale's father were. I think it was implied that the members of clan Zamora were in seclusion as per their custom and that they were participating in the day of silence, as in they wouldn't be speaking to anyone for the entire day. I think that was why they weren't at the actual ceremony, because that wasn't for family.

Lauren and Evony. Oh boy has there been a lot about that, some of which I saw even before the episode. I have to admit that when I read what she had done on twitter I laughed. Evony is a terrible person. Sure she's awesome in scenes with Lauren, and with Bo and Kenzi (because I think Evony was impressed by Kenzi, actually) but that chic was horrific. Did she deserve to be dosed and had her entire nature changed? I don't know. I kind of think she did. She's probably killed multiples of thousands of people in all the years that she has been alive. Her entire exisitence is the result of her leeching off others. She offers the world nothing in return. If being sentenced to living out a normal life is all she gets in return for what she has done, she's getting off lucky, IMO. But how Lauren did it is pretty squicky for me. I get that they were alluding back to the spybang, and perhaps trying to get Lauren some redemption for her doing it to Bo by having her do it to someone so demonstratably evil as Evony, but still... why? And why have her brag about it and just walk away. Was she counting on Evony being so humiliated that she wouldn't tell anyone what Lauren did to keep it secret? Why would Lauren want the fae to know she had the power to make them the one thing they all hate: human? I almost would have preferred if it had been something Lauren gave her without her knowledge a few episodes ago and had Evony suffering effects over a few episodes as she was slowly turning human.

Bo and Lauren. I have to admit being confused by Lauren's declaration that she did everything for Bo when it was clear Lauren had intended to leave the fae for good at the end of last season. I can understand if she changed her mind. People are allowed to do that. But she was brought back by forces out of her control and created her plan on her own that had nothing to do with Bo. How does changing fae human have anything to do with Bo, unless Lauren was hoping Bo would want to be human to be with her so they both could leave the fae? And Bo didn't really chose Lauren. Lauren was the only option at the time because as far as Bo knew Dyson was sans love. I think I would have liked it if Lauen hit Bo with that fact. And told her that she chose the Dark to protect herself because Bo can't always be there to protect her. Which she can't. Example: Hale. It's be a nice reality check for Bo and her current situation with Kenzi as well. But it doesn't mean that Lauren couldn't have taken the time during their talk to tell Bo she did still love her, but that she needed to assure herself that she was strong enough to be an equal partner to Bo. Her plan against the Dark being a part of that. But Lauren throwing Rainer and him being Bo's "destiny" at Bo was a nice touch. It was just a conversation that was just a few lines of dialog off, based on previously established events. But it's clear that Bo and Lauren still have very strong feelings and now Rainer is the obstacle, which is why Bo had to clarify that she wasn't marrying Rainer out of love, even though she has feelings for him too. But I think once she realized that both of them had been manipulated to get him off that train she mentally walked back from him being her destiny. New triangle! The other part about it all being for Bo is that Lauren intentionally lied to Bo so she could carry out her plan and be the hero. That shouldn't be so heavily applauded by anyone, especially those that love to say that is what Dyson does. Plus, it's a continuation of Lauren putting herself in crappy situations for other people instead of making choices for herself. I want Lauren doing things to save herself, not try in a weird round about way save someone that doesn't need it or want it.

Bo herself. I know a lot of people don't think Bo is all that likable, but she really isn't any different than she was at the beginning of the show, it's just what keeps happening to her is different. And I think how she's been dragged away from her original intent of protecting humans by choosing them as her clan is exactly what Dyson and Trick tried to warn her about. They tried to tell her how dangerous the fae could be and that she didn't understand what she was getting into and this is the result. She didn't mean for it to happen, but all of her time is begin taken by dealing with fae shenanigans and she is doing everything she can to keep her head above water. And the people in her life suffer because of it, especially Kenzi. I don't think Bo really meant to give up on Kenzi when she unclaimed her, she was just relenting to what Kenzi wanted even though Bo never really considered Kenzi her property and I think the idea of "unclaiming" her was pointless to Bo because she wouldn't have stopped Kenzi from leaving even if she hadn't unclaimed her. I think she intended that their conversation would continue, but that knight woman interrupted and gave Kenzi the opportunity to run out on the rest of whatever Bo was going to say. But this is what the fae do. They play games, constantly. And as much as Bo thought she could stay out of their world and live her own life, she got dragged into their games and is now fully immersed in their world and their rules.

Kenzi is reacting out of grief and guilt, IMO. I think she's blaming Bo unneccessarily since Bo's current situation had nothing to do with Hale's death, other than Kenzi's decision to deal with Massimo in the first place. But she's hurting and she's angry and she's going to lash out and Bo gets that. She just doesn't want Kenzi doing anything that could get her hurt, which it probably will. Her decidng that Dyson betrayed her by not killing Massimo was another instance of over reaction. Dyson never does anything against anyone unless it's out of protection so Bo's initial reaction of trying to tell Kenzi to trust him was correct. Plus I think the Twig has an effect on people as well as objects to keep the wearer safe, which is why you can't just take it from someone. But Kenzi is supposed to be a Shadow Thief now. Why can't she just take it from him? What if she has already but she's playing him so he thinks he still has it? That would be sweet.

Evony. I was a little disappointed that she was so dismissive of whatever Massimo brought her. She should be old enough to understand how fae ojects of power tend to not look all that powerful. Why even call him if she just assumed he was going to get it all wrong anyhow? But he as Tamsin's hair, so I bet that gives her back her power or something later.
Carmen Pinzon
196. bungluna
I just thought of something: Massimo is human and a practicing Druid. Does that mean that he does some type of magic that's non-fae? He seems to have a place in Faetown all on his own.
197. lonewolf
@bungluna, Vex mentioned to massimo that he had taught him everything he knows. I don't believe he has a certain magic other than a very detailed knowledge of the fae and druidism, potions and such. But I din't think he had any certain magical power of sorts.

@UberFaenatic, I watched sleeping beauty school last night, but I got kidnapped by a four yr. old from across the hall and was made to watch Dora for 2 1/2 torturous hours. So I couldn't respond last night like I wanted to. But I do agree fully that the memories from Waves being false, they were imprinted to cover the real memories. And if what we see before Waves are the real ones, then she was being held against her will. She was trying to break the door open somehow when the handmaiden came in and asked her not to waken him. That does not sound like a friendly Rainer guy to me. Also I should point out that at 23:38 when the handmaiden was with Bo she touched her cheek to try to infulence her to find out what was happening. At that point the handmaiden looked at her and said *beautiful eyes both brown and blue, you're the one. Then the train shook and the maid had a very scared look and told Bo it was all her fault and left. So it had to have been the crow(s) that brought her there still. They must have (maybe) brought Bo to that room where she was being kept. Then she jumped off the train without evaporating or getting transendental sickness just like Dyson and Clio didn't either when they jumped.

So....Ianka comes to the Dal and finds Bo. The first time she just gives her a quick idea of what she can do for her. It shows her on the train but nothing more. I'm going on memory here, but the second time when Ianka was singing the Aria, she had the memory of the crown and her sweeping it off the table, correct. I should have gone back and watched it first. But anyways, after that at the end she had the capsule, for lack of a better word, And that is when she looked at herself in the mirror on the train and saw the handprint on her chest and said no she couldn't or won't do whatever. I'm guessing it was their bonding that she was talking about. That must have happened against her will also, and quite possibly very terrifying. So to make her not remember, these false memories were given her.

So we have that much that we know for sure. Now, my first question is, when did Ianka see her the first time. It had to have been on the train, it could be that when Ianka did come on the train, Bo was still in her right mind. Enough to give Ianka the message to find her in the future. That way when she did find her she would help her remember the real memories. Was it for Bo herself that she was brought there on the train by Rainer, to entertain her? That could be why she was able to slip her that note.

But the glass jar with the crow in it and the declaration to the dark were done by Rainer to guide her back, unknowingly, to him....maybe. Then when she does come back, ready to kick butt, Rainer is there welding something. And the crown is there next to him on the floor. He fights her off and glows her again which brings back these false memories. This way she will help him break the curse. Then they walk into the Dal and she freaks everyone out with this *he's my destiny* business. But where did the crown go after they got off the train.

So, like you said, the Rainer that we see is only half of the complete entity that makes the Wanderer. But maybe, the other half is the pyripuss which is also the evil half of the entity that completes Rainer as a whole. And that's the half (the pyripuss) that is entombed at the horse cultures temple. I did see a picture somewhere of what may have been Rainer/the wanderer as a complete entity. He had horns and what looked like wings on it's back. And maybe it's just me but it did resemble Rainer somewhat. So the complete entity that becomes Rainer/the wanderer is able to shift from the pyripuss (the winged horse) to Rainer. Not the Rainer we see on the train but the creature we see in the picture.

So Trick cursed the Rainer that we see on the train. The other half was entombed somehow? And once Rainer and Bo bonded (married) on this plane it was what he needed to free his other half. Again, maybe....but like you say. I had almost looked into ancient Chinese or Japanese culture to see if there was anything that would show similarities of anykind between who serves who. If a dragon (in our case a horse) could command a human or a Rainer type entity. But I'm just winging it here. Like I said I didn't watch Of all the Gin Joints where Ianka went to the Dal.

So the pyripuss is both the embodiment of Rainer and what ever is entombed. And it has the ability to shift. But whatever the combination of, or separate but whole of this being or beings are, it is definitley something very evil and it is coming to claim it's mate, Bo. bad daddy is coming and he's not bringing good news. For us anyways.

And finally, where is the crown and where are the helskor shoes. And will the shoes come into play tonight. If they do, (the shoes that is) come into play tonight, do we get to see Angel deliver it. Probably not, it doesn't seem to be EA's style. Also I forgot to say, I agree that Rainer is most definitely a very manipulative/persuasive person/entity. That was evident when he got her to slaughter the una mens. Plus when she was looking at herself in the mirror afterwards there seemed to be a look of doubt as to what she had done. Then she again tells him when she's sitting on the bed she expresses doubt and if she could trust him. Both times he either touches her shoulder or holds her hand. I think there's more to the eye than what we see.

Anyways, that's my rambling of theory this morning. @UberFaenatic, I hope you read this before tonight. You'll find out in about 12 1/2 hours. For me it won't until a couple hours after you.

198. lonewolf
Also @nypinta, it's good to see you back here and don't go running off again. Your views are very much welcome.
199. JayCruz61
Finally, the day is here when we'll get some answers but remember EA isn't solving all of these characters dilemmas as per she stated in the fan Q & A article. It's going to be very interesting gels & guys. In any event, this is me wishing you all a happy LOST GIRL S4 FINALE DAY... hahaha (liking that)
200. TheUberFan
@lonewolf...I agree with much of your interpretation. The only difference is that I'm wondering if the pyrripus and the dark lord are two separate entities. Rosette calls up in her incantation for the warrior to be a commander. See below for more. :D

Meaning, yes, I think it's possible that Rainer is split in two, so that the Wanderer we see is not a demon beast but instead the attractive being Bo found on the train...and the incantation Rosette recited will free him from his bonds. I think that the demon part of the Wanderer may be the dark lord that Rosette ultimately served because he needs to be loosed to reunite with his Rainer self.

The reason I feel the Wanderer and the Pyrripus might not be the same is how Epona regarded them and the great horse:
Sister Epona: The horse. The great and all powerful with dominion over life and death. Only the mighty will denote the worthy from the fallen. But if you find it...
Bo: Find what?
Epona: Your blood will destroy him. He must be protected.
Bo: Protected from who?
Epona: The Succubus. You.
Bo: What about me?
Epona: The daughter's intentions are unclear.
Later on...when they return to the center...
Bo: You don't like me very much, do you horse whisperer?
Epona: If it comes, he will bring death and destruction.
Bo: If what comes?
Epona: Do not play games, betrayer of all. You are interfering with destiny.
I think the "it" in that scenario is the beast Wanderer/dark lord, not the pyrripus. She fears "it" rising and what it will bring. She doesn't speak of it in awe, like she does the pyrripus.

I think a split Wanderer would explain why Tamsin didn't recognize him either. She knew him only as his demon self. It would also explain why people knew of who the Wanderer was before Rainer was released from the train because his demon self was not cursed to be forgotten.

Trick however only knew the hot, defiant Rainer, not the evil one. How is that possible? How can Rainer be both noble and evil? A horrible beast who can't be trusted and a tortured hero?

There are two halves that need to be reunited. But the reuniting will bring about a horrible horrible fate to all.

And Rainer was cursed multiple times. Why? I think to prevent this reunion.

So, theoretically, he was split before Trick knew him. By whom or what and for what reason, I don't know. But... this leads to my next point.

If the above scenario is true in any way, then I think that the Wanderer serves Bo's father.

The translations I've seen of Bo's "union" with Rainer show that Rosette said nothing of them at all beyond the fact that they would raise "him" up:
He is coming, with me all the servants of hell, it will be, wiil be, the warrior will become an (officer/commander)...and this ones daughter too (it) will be.
An officer/commander to whom?

And I think Epona was talking to Rainer when she said "betrayer of all"...thus he will "betray the fae." But betray to whom?

I think to Bo's father.

As for Rainer...I keep going back and forth about him. He may or may not be evil...I mean the being Bo knows. It's possible he's clueless and doesn't know how he's being manipulated by his other self. There are indications ...him glowing her and the crown resting by him while he was welding...that he did know. But we shall see.

I only offer it up as a possibility that he's not evil because he still acts as though he's noble even after Bo breaks his second curse. He acts betrayed by Rosette. At this point, why would he need to continue the ruse? Unless he still needs her to think him noble because he needs her for something else...
201. JayCruz61
Okay, I'm going to ask a trite question and it might piss some people off but doesn't it make more sense to want to see Bo with both Lauren and Dyson. Lauren as her lover and Dyson as her sustainer. I'm with it and that's not a subscription or advocation for bi-sexuality either because I don't co-sign on that, sorry that's just my opinion. But given Bo's succubi specie make up, it does make sense. Sorry Rainer, I'm not a fan. I can't include you. You're dying in the finale
Kiersten Hallie Krum
202. Kiersten
For the record, our policy of "no personal attacks" extends to everyone. You can object to the way EA runs or writes a show or how she manipulates the fan bases or that she regular lies about things in the show, or that you don't like one of the actor's work, but no personal attacks against her or anything other person involved with Lost Girl.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
202. Kiersten
For the record, our policy of "no personal attacks" extends to everyone. You can object to the way EA runs or writes a show or how she manipulates the fan bases or that she regular lies about things in the show, or that you don't like one of the actor's work, but no personal attacks against her or any other person involved with Lost Girl.
Nadine Robb
203. cmm
@jaycruz61 I doubt people would mind that. She is a succubus after all it would only make sense. But the tptb are not going to go there. They have had so many opportunities to go that route. After the xmas episode would of been a prime time to do it but they didn't, they started with the Rainer crap. I predict after this arc is done, they will go right back to the triangle.
204. JayCruz61
@Kiersten who is doing that exactly? @cmm you are probably right...
205. lonewolf
@UberFaenatic, the dialog that you have between Sister Epona and Bo *the great and all powerful with dominion over life and death.* Only the mighty will denote the worthy from the fallen.* She is talking about the horse. That for me goes back to the Ceremony when Bo comes back with Dyson and sucks the chi fro Kenzi, Lauren, Trick and Stella. Then goes into that possesed mode where she goes into full body glow, and talks about being his daughter and how he/it will bridle (as a horse is bridled?)the masses. Then she breathes the chi into Dyson and in that demonic voiceshe says* only I choose who lives.* Much like what Sister Ebona said at the temple about the horse. She also seems to imply that while she is the pyripuss's daughter her blood can kill him.

Could it possibly be that the Pyripuss separated that evil part of Rainer from that part that we see, maybe.

I just watched the binding (marriage) between Bo and Rainer. After it was done Rosette points at Bo points at Bo and says *she will rise with the Wanderer (Rainer) as her soldier and together they will release the lord of darkness.* From what I just watched of the binding and when the mark came upon Bo and Rainer it seemed to be a bluish color much like the color of the light that came from the Pyripuss's tomb. So that light could be the energy from both Bo and Rainer that lets the pyripuss out, maybe.

So their binding releases the pyripuss or* whatever *as Kiersten would say ;) from it's tomb, and maybe along with that comes the revealing of Rainer's true self. Also to take a step back, it did look like Sister Epona was looking at Rainer when she said *betrayer of all*. I think it's all the fae that he betrays. But at the same time at the bonfire he said something about his being manipulated. I think he was being the manipulator then. Bo goes on about how it's only because of family that she is doing it. Then he comes out with that *for the record I do love you*. Then she gets that fixated look on her face somewhat like she did on the train when he touched her the scond time. More catnip for Bo.

So the pyripuss is Bo's father, he takes that part of Rainer which is evil with him when he is entombed. That leaves Trick to curse only that part of the wanderer that we see. A handsome (more catnip for Bo) but very manipulative person. Just because he's not the big bad yet doesn't mean he's not without some powers. It must have been something he used to get Bo to break the curse. Well, both physical , the glow, and the mindfae to compliment it.

I thought also that the Rainer we see is a good guy. Just that thought alone is a scary thought in itsef. With everthing we've been given regarding the guy, it makes him out to be a bad guy. So to think otherwise is difficult. You become comfortable with knowing he's a bad guy that when there is a hint of his being good it takes you out of that comfort zone, and you think WTF!! No way can that be.

Tonight'sthe night we get some of the answers we need or we are left with more confusion. ;\

@doppleganger, no remotes tonight, ok.
206. doppleganger
@Kiersten I hope I didn't start a firestorm here. No personal attack intended. I just was a bit baffled by her answers in the Q&A. And frightened by the "extreme" and "no one will be neutral" hints at the finale.

@lonewolf and @UberFaenatic I am onboard now with Rainer's evil side coming out in the finale ... but I can't get my head around him being a split entity. It seems too sophisticated a plot point to reconcile with all that's come before.

We seem to have several contenders for medium/big bad: Massimo (who is getting too big for his britches), the pyrripus, the dark lord, Rainer, & the Wanderer (whether or not he IS Rainer, the dark lord, or a seperate entity). How many of these loose ends will be tied up in the finale or just set up for resolution in S5?

In the promo, Massimo's hair seems to be graying, and the conversation between Bo and Dyson indicates that everyone's dead, but she doesn't have the sense of urgency/rage we'd expect if it had just happened ... is that a flash forward/premonition?

Despite a disappointing season, I still want a season 5. If only for the occasionally hilarious, always random episodes (like 7 & 8, bodyswap, etc).
207. doppleganger
@lonewolf No promises. Good thing I have bad aim.
208. JayCruz61
@doppleganger no firestorm here but opinions go a long way. My comment about her writing was intended to be as harsh as her comment about not paying attention to the fan service and if that is offensive or against this blog policy then I'll have to politely excuse myself from this one. There are too many other LG forums on the internet. It was nice to meet you all. #goingforward
Kiersten Hallie Krum
209. Kiersten
@Doppleganger - there's no firestrom. I prefer to keep everything out in the open and gently remind people as seems necessary to prevent any firestorms before they can ignite. And there's that metaphor played to death.

@JayCruz61 - I certainly dont see the need for you to excuse yourself from the blog forum but that is your perrogative. You may share your opinion about EA's writing or any other aspect of the show as freely as any one else here. The only policy this blog has regarding that is to the tone and language directed against people individually. But it's completely up to you whether you wish to continue with the conversation here or not.
210. nypinta
What I don't understand is why Bo getting married to anyone would break a curse on her father that has been exiled and sealed into Hel. Why would that be some key to let him out? Who would make such a key? Why would you make a key, period, if you locked someone as awful as him away? And if he's been locked away, how in the hell did Aife get inpregnated by him? She was given to a Dark Fae king who thought she'd make a fun toy for a few centuries... but did he actually kill her and she was in Hel itself with Bo's father? She did attack and murder fae, that would warrent a trip to Fae damnation. But he brought her back to life because he needed her to have his child? Was she then held by someone else on Bo's father's behalf and that was who she escaped from? Because if he's locked in Hel, how did Aife and Luann get Bo to the real world?

But I think too much of the finale will deal with Bo having to confont first Massimo and then her father for them to bother explaining how Bo can seem to have two versions of memories of her time on the train, why the marriage was a key to her father's freedom, or explain the timeline of Aife's experience as a prisoner of the Dark. Or Tamsin's complete involvement, because that's key too. I think Trick imprisoned Rainer but I don't think he placed the second curse. I think that might have been Bo's father, so it would force Bo to hand fast with Rainer to keep him alive. But it still makes no sense as the key to his freedom. Nor does it make much sense as a fail safe curse on Rainer since it asks for the person who saved Rainer to save him again and who is going to go through the hassle to save someone from such a horrible existence and not go all the way to save their life too? Oh right, the shitty fae. Because they are so damn weird. But it seems that by Trick erasing Rainer he also erased all knowledge of the prophecies that could have helped Bo if she knew about them earlier. Way to go, Trick! (Again.) Unless it was that Trick knew Rainer was prophecized to set the evil that is Bo's father free and him trying to write him out of history was an attempt to prevent that too? (Which would kind of make what Trick did something actually on bahalf of the fae...) But the part of the prophecy that seems important is Rainer betraying the fae. How? Does the unleashing of Bo's father also unleash the rest of who he is? Is, like others are suggesting, he both Rainer and The Wanderer? So like Bo sent herself clues because she knew she'd forget her time on the train, did The Wanderer send himself things to save the part of him that forgot?
211. TheUberFan
@nypinta...she didn't marry Rainer. She thought she did...but the words Rosette spoke were an incantation, not a marriage ceremony.

As for "why curse him twice"...well, it almost worked, didn't it? They didn't know he had been cursed twice and were less than a day away from him dying a horrible death because of it.

Sadly, Massimo had to go and clue them all in. Jerk.
212. lonewolf
@Kiersten, I've just read all the comments and I can only find one comment that I would consider excessive. And while it was not so, it still could have been expressed in a better manner. I almost took myself off of here because I thought I was getting caught up in some excessive snarkiness considering Lauren. I won't adress her as DL anymore because of her highly unethical manner in which she attacked Evony. Also the thought I may have chased @nypinta off when I came up with my foolish answers to a list of questions, such a where the dog buried the shoe and how everybody is visiting or owning a place next to a French vineyard. After I reread it I saw it as being rather childish and I should haven't have done it. But civility and forgiveness is not a hard thing to understand.

Having said all that, I hope that JayCruz61 decides to stay here. I have read all the comments and JayCruz61 you have made some very informative coments. Stay, you are not going to leave because of a mild comment or reminder, are you? Stay and enjoy the fun we have on here. You, I believe are a stonger person than that.

And speaking of strong, the character that Aife, I don't remember her characters name, came up with a line that gave me a chuckle. She talking with someone and she comes out with this *crazy makes you strong* line. I instantly thought *Aife*

Well 4 hrs. and 45 minutes to go.
213. lonewolf
If that was a lock of hair, I wonder whose hair it was. A tail of a horse, perhaps.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
214. Kiersten
The hair that Evony discarded was the lock of Tamsin's hair that Massimo stole. There's no other option
215. J.Fall
It will be quite interesting to see what actually lands on screen as it seems editing went on until quite late ... has something changed due to response to the show???? I can't help thinking, with all shipper bases disgruntled, that LG writers must have learnt something from this season. I'm surprised they've got another season and will be very suprised if Syfy pick up Season 5. If they do hopefully they'll learn the lesson of not putting the show up months after the showing in Canada.

I also think there are too many people crossing over into each others roles and this has unbalanced the show. Of course no-one wants to see their favourite characters go and I certainly didn't want to see the end of Hale. EA is still the best writer on the show despite the response to the overall arc, so hopefully the finale will be better than S3.

It's pretty clear that Doccubus will have some kind of moment but what about the rest of them? Will Dyson and Tamsin stay friend zoned? Will Rainer make it to next season? At the end of the day if your BFF is always going to be the most important person in your life, then the lover will always be secondary so there's that for consolation for all the Kenzi lovers.
216. lonewolf
@Kiersten, that was a lock of hair that they found at the womens horse culture wasn't it. That's the lock of hair I was curious about.
217. JayCruz61
@lonewolf not at all. I won't leave because of that. I know what I said was a bit harsh and i'll go as far as unnecessary in calling her/EA the "a" word. Call It a rant if you will or perhaps going over the edge but that fan comment she made wasn't necessary either. It just reminded me of Shonda Rhimes pretty much saying the same thing in an interview with Ophra Winfrey. By the same token I don't believe that a writers creative ability should be stumped, either. That respect for the fan has to be there. They can make or brake a show via ratings. I don't get involved in character bashing. Like I said, I can see Bo's character with a male Fae and an female human, and/or however, they decide to write it. They can pair her up with whomever. I'm ok with it all. What I am is a drama junkie for real. The more mix up the better. The two characters that emulsifies my emotions is that of Bo and Kenzi. Thus far they are right on track with the writing because friendships are often tested. It'll be interesting how they solidify it. @Kiersten what you have stated is duly noted. My apologies, truly.
C. H.
218. SmurfFae
About the blue butterfly:
In 3x07 Bo's bio-mom tells the story about the time Bo was 7: The butterfly landed on her hand and died. She tried to make it fly again, and when she couldn't, she cried all day.
On the train the reverse happened: When she touched the still butterfly, it flew away.
Both times it seemed to evoke strong emotions.
Carmen Pinzon
220. bungluna
I myself am an enemy of drama for drama's sake. A fictional world has to make more sense than the real world, or it all falls appart. This is even more important in a sci-fi/fantasy world, imo, where we are asked to believe in things that are absolutely not real.

To me, the bigest failing of Lost Girl has been the sla-dash quality of the world building and the constant ret-conning of characters. A good writers can explain anything away with panache, but here we have just patching up of past mistakes until the show is unrecognizable from the one I started watching.

The juvenile sex jokes and constant shaming of characters is grating to my nerves. The lack of cohesion in the mythology baffles me. I will acknowledge that I get a kick out of discussing it here, though. So for that, I'm grateful.
221. drusilla_doll
Giving everyone a huge pre-show hug. Even if tonight turns out to be extremely disappointing and makes some of us no longer want to follow the show next season, I just wanted you to know that it's been a joy hanging and chin-wagging with you lot. ;) You've definitely made my Lost Girl experience an enjoyable one, no matter what.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
223. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll @uberfaenatic @bungluna and everyone - it's a trip keeping up with all y'all and I'm glad you've all chosen to be a part of the H&H Lost Girl community.

Here's hoping there's something in the finale for us all.
Nadine Robb
226. cmm
I was wondering when it was coming, when they would do it. GRRRR!
Nadine Robb
228. cmm
Well they showed Massimo's end and the inevitable doccubus scene. I just felt like they gave it bit more to doccubus than to Dyson and Bo. It's like they can't make their love equal. And as per last week Kenzi did play a part in Bo's destiny. She was Bo's heart. Edited to add at least we know how important Kenzi is to Bo and hopefully season 5 shows that.
230. Stacymd2
I afraid to ask how the show was based on the doccubus reaction.
Was it as super doccubus as the are claiming with Bo's heart "dying" and being taken to Vallhala by our favorite Fae with wings?
Nadine Robb
231. cmm
I didn't want to spoil it for everyone else LOL!

Okay, okay spoilers******

Bo goes to confront Trick about her blood. What he divulges isn't really anyting we don't already know. (very dissapointing)

Rainer dies fairly early on in the show. I thought him being introduced was stupid personally. He tells Bo to tell Tamsin to take his soul to valhalla.

Kenzi and Bo reconcile.

Dyson pledges himself to Isabo, the same way he did to Trick. Don't know how that works but apparently it does.

Massimo and Lauren exchange jabs.

Bo goes to save Lauren

Evony bonds with Trick, she asks why they never got together he tells her she's a cold bitch. Evony eventually goes on to see Massimo.

Massimo chi sucks his mother to death. Bo brings her back.

Bo goes on to face the evil after killing Massimo.

Tamsin and Dyson kick ass Trick shows up to help.

Kenzi kicks the bucket.

How's that for spoilers??
233. doppleganger
So, @cmm Thanks for the spoilers :). Just enough to slake the Thirst. Other than too much Lauren lurve, did you like? Did it deliver to tie up some of these loose ends? I'm so bummed I'm not Canadian tonight.
Nadine Robb
234. cmm

@doppleganger It did tie up some of the loose ends although, Evony is still human. She's going to have to be fae'd next season. What I didn't like about the doccubus scene is that they kissed. When they had the Dyson Bo scene it was just hug. Drives me nutz. If there is really a triangle it should be even.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
235. Kiersten
Rainer dies after a confrontation with Trick. Massimo kills him.

Bo goes Dark Queen. Dyson brings her back from the brink and emotionally pledges love to her again and throws in fealty for good measure. "I thought I was looking for a King; what I reallly needed was a Queen." Or something like that.

Somewhere in there, Tamsin calls Bo on her shit. Bo makes Dyson promise to protect Kenzi. She puts on the necklace that Doctor Lauren never gave her and goes to rescue Doctor Lauren. Again. Who apparently forgot how to get herself out of cuffs/chains.

DL and Massimo and Evony banter. Bo shows up. DL destroys the Twig of Zamora that makes the wearer undestroyable. This allows Bo to kill Massimo. Bo tells DL her ability to make Fae human means she'll be hunted. DL says that she's Bo's. They kiss.

There's a battle. Tamsin and Dyson kick ass. Trick helps. Kenzi shows up. She knows she's Bo's heart. The prophecy says Bo will have to rip out her heart in order to close the hel gate. Kenzi tells Dyson she has to sacrifice herself to do this since she's Bo's heart. Kenzi walks into hel. Tamsin goes to retrieve her but she can't. The tombstone at the end is Kenzi's.

I think. I havent watched it yet.
Nadine Robb
236. cmm
Pretty accurate kiersten. What do you think of what you've read?
Nadine Robb
237. cmm
@Kiersten the Kenzi/Tamsin part was weird to me. She takes Kenzi away but the scene you see next with Tasmin is she's at the gates of Valhalla and there is no Kenzi. She does mutter something about the hell shoe though and say Bo should not find it.
Nadine Robb
239. cmm
So she basically admits the doccubus scene was shown to be stronger, she seems to have let it slip they hate males before saying "just kidding". Dyson and Bo are better able to communicate, but then puts that down by saying that speaks to the chemistry between Bo and Lauren. GRRR! Its funny cause Bo and Dyson could communicate and had that same chemistry in season 1. Its really begining to irritate me that they are sabotaging one relationship to prop up another. It speaks volumes that they need to do this to validate Doccubus.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
240. Kiersten
Oh, apparently, the power of the Twig of Zamora diminishes now that the last heir of Zamora is dead. Because Val doesn't count. According to Wonder Lauren, ya know, who wasn't even there (onscreen) during any of the conversations about the Twig of Zamora and has herself admitted to isolating herself with the Dark...
241. drusilla_doll
Well, she knows it all, don't you know? She's a super-genius super-scientist Innocent Damsel-Machiavellian Badass. Who learns things from Kenzi off screen for when it's convenient but then forgets same for when she needs to be saved by Bo.
Nadine Robb
242. cmm
If she keeps taking this route with the show, she will run it into the ground. Now i'm not saying that you can't have a female heroine or female relationships. But its not very realistic to totally take away the male population on the show. She will turn away a lot of the viewership. I dont' get what she has against males and heterosexual relationships. Also the twig of Zamora part. Really, why would it diminish now the heir is dead. To me it's logical for it to remain since it's the family twig (meaning the bloodline male or female should not matter).

Add to the fact Lauren all of a sudden remembers the hippocratic oath, I lmao. And her let them come stance. Seriously, let them come? Note to Lauren, if the fae don't get you, the humans will. You aren't a god you are very easy to kill.
243. drusilla_doll
But, apparently the Dyson/Tamsin thing is heating up. /rolleyes. A contrived plot answer to her shipping dilemma. Let's just ignore all the valid reasons Doccubus (with no intervention from other parties) hasn't worked for two seasons, shall we?
244. Stacymd2
@cmm: Lauren is a god. She knows all and can do all, except when she needs Bo to save here.

I am so glad for Bitten, Sleepy Hollow, Being Human, Agents of Shield & Orphan Black. OB is returning in June, not a moment to soon.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
245. Kiersten
@Stacymd2 - Orphan Black returns in APRIL - as do my recaps
246. drusilla_doll
So Kenzi also taught Lauren Shadow Thief powers off screen so DL could save Bo's ass while she was rescuing her. Give me a FRACKING BREAK. Note to writers if they get a S5, enough with the fan-fic OTT character worship. Please show something ON-screen that's remotely plausible and organic to what's going on. Thanks....
Nadine Robb
247. cmm
@kiersten You're a sleepy hollow fan too?!??! AHAHHHHH! I love sleepy hollow! Bitten I have just started to get into. I haven't seen Agents of shield but I do like Almost Human. Although, I have a bad feeling that that may not last.
248. nypinta
I didn't see any heating up of Dyson and Tamsin other than the same partnership they've always had.
Dyson swears fealty to Bo as well as tells her he loves her. She doesn't want to fight for her, but with her. I think that means that Trick is no longer his King. Like he did in the past, he's switche allegiances. But if they continue with Trick as acting Ash, Dyson will be in the same position he was before, which was torn between two responsibilites.
The thing with the twig did bother me since it wasn't theirs to destroy. It should have been given back to Hale's family, because as has been pointed out Val still is alive and that means more Zamora's could be born. Weren't the fae supposed to be so progressive about women in their world not being thought of as second class like human women? They made a point of that in S2 with the Glaive... right? But I think they were both just channeling residule anger at the twig for saving Massimo against Hale. And she did say she needed some time to get out of the cuffs that Massimo put on her. Why they had he mentioning the shadow thieving I don't understand since it wasn't Kenzi's shadow thieving that she used before. It was just good ol' fashion lock picking.
As for Rainer, he used his foresight to see that the only option was for him to let Massimo kill him. He might not actually be gone for good either. He knew that Kenzi was going to sacrifice herself and he knew, as Kenzi said, that Bo would go looking for Valhalla, where he asked to be taken too... so I'm just saying... plus I think he also knew that adding his power to all of the ones Massimo abosrbed would continue to throw him off balance. It wasn't a needless death.
249. drusilla_doll
I like all of what you listed @cmm. Sleepy Hollow is particularly good. :)
250. J.Fall
Well, it looked to me as if all ships have been left sailing with the inclusion of Dysin and Levony. I include the latter because Lauren will have to re-Fae Evony, for a very good reason, I'm sure. And who, now, will Lauren look to for protection in the Fae world. Will she finally be owned by Bo?

The episode felt a bit like the Garuda again with Bo running about and not doing very much apart from check in with the ships and bewail Kenzi's sacrifice. I still don't understand Rainer's significance to anything. No doubt someone else can explain.
251. JDKnight
There will have to be a season 5 and Kenzi will have to come back. Just because she has gone to Hel does not mean that she has gone forever. Levi did say to Bo that she will see her again. Lost Girl without Kenzi is like pancakes without maple syrup ;o(
Kiersten Hallie Krum
252. Kiersten
@cmm I love Sleepy Hollow madly. Bitten is having a slow start for me but seems to be picking up. I dropped Agents of Shield awhile ago (boring and failed to live up to its promise) and dont watch Almost Human but I do love Arrow
253. Stacymd2
@kiersten: April, really? I thought the promos I saw said June. This is the best news!

The Shadow Thief thing was such a waste. Why mention it they were not going to use it on screen?

I guess Lauren stripping Fae of their identity will be Season 5's story arc. Bo gets to save Lauren from the evil Fae hunting her and save Kenzi from Valhalla.
254. nypinta
I'm surprised by two things: That Evony seems to actually relish being human in a weird sort of way. Because she can't help but announce it to everyone and anyone. Why would she tell Trick of all people!?
And that Lauren is so cavalier about the fae coming after her. It's not just going to be the Dark. It's going to be all of them. Any fae that feels she's a threat and sorry but having a serum that can turn fae is not going to be enough to protect her if she has to first have the DNA of the fae to change them. So her bravada is completely unrealistic.
255. drusilla_doll
I watched Bitten in a batch and while it was slow at first, it did pick up around ep 3-4. I do love that it's an adult show, refreshingly light on teen angst at least. TVD still makes me roll my eyes, but The Originals is proving more sophisticated and might be up your alley. We actually get to see complex familial relationships rather than just teen romance BS.

Agents of Shield has grown on me in leaps and bounds, but then again I am a sucker for unlikely romances and yes, what they telegraphed is not what's happened so far, and they've actually worked a lot on character bonds and dynamics enough that I care when shit hits the fan and it has a lot in more recent eps. Fitz-Simmons is delightful and I could lap up Ming Na's Belinda May forever.

That said, Orphan Black and Sleepy Hollow are, in my opinion, the best offerings at the moment in terms of compelling characters and tightly woven plot.

Arrow is cartoonish but pretty watchable.

Almost Human is awesome when explores existentialism regarding the synthetic life forms (Dorian is amazing) and mysteries like what is behind the wall (John Larroquette's activist villain was kinda cool), it's not so deft at dealing with the rather predictable ships and tropes (like the science geek lacking in social skills, lead character being irascible/damaged or inter-office romance)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
256. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll I'm loving The Originals but I've never watched TVD. Ming Na's May is the only reason I stayed with AofS as long as I did. But I couldnt deal with Skye anymore for one thing.
257. drusilla_doll
@Kiersten: I get it, to some extent, people don't like Skye. Think she's too Mary Sue-ish. Weirdly, I do like her and I think because she feels like an outsider, audience lens, who is good at bluffing her way in, but knows she doesn't quite cut it yet in terms of skills and devotion. I think they've shown she's is rather insecure and thus reckless in wanting to prove herself. I believe in her bond with Coulson more than anything else, it's kind of a surrogate father-surrogate daughter thing and rocks when either of them are in peril. Luckily Skye/Ward is not really showing any viability right now which is a huge relief. On the other hand, May/Ward is all kinds of adult complications, mmmm.
258. nypinta
The Originals gets on my nerves, but that's mostly because Klaus is on it without Caroline, from TVD, which is a hilarious show because it's about teenage alcoholism and a LOT of neck snapping. Seriously. The amout of people that die in one episode cracks me up. SHIELD is getting good. And Skye isn't nearly as annoying as she used to be. I even like Ward now. Who knew!?
Orphan Black is genius, as is Sleepy Hollow. Almost Human is good simply because of the ridiculousness of Dorian, an android, bantering with a human.
I like Bitten for going slowly. And that the werewolves have actual lives and are articulate, unlike in pretty much every other show where they exisit. And Being Human continues to be a weird messed up jumble of goodness. (Not supernatural in any way but I also adore Elementary and Person of Interest: the best, and surprisingly most feminist sci fi show on TV right now.)
259. Stacymd2
I am going to binge watch Aarow one of these days. I saw a few episodes of Season one, but I couldn't get into it. John Barrowman was on it. Supernatural is the only CW show I watch. Teen Wolf is also my guilty pleasure. I am far from the MTV audience, but it is so addicting.
Carmen Pinzon
260. bungluna
Hey, WonderMengeLauren can always defeat all female fae with her wonderstnatch and the fae males are all, apparently totally inefectual.

It's like watching a train wreck. Hypnotic. From the promise of S1 to this debacle in 48 short episodes. EA is a genius, the way she's turned an UF show into an adolescent soft-porn wet dream.

All the childish sex jokes, all the male bashing, all the MengeLauren worship, all to have Kenzie die at the end for some DRAMA!!!!!

Sorry, folks, but tears are easy to come by, just threaten a child or kill a pet or a favorite character. Good story telling, however, is much harder to come by and seems imposibly out of reach for this crowd.
Nadine Robb
261. cmm
Does anyone here watch helix? If yes, what do you think?

@bungluna I love your name for DL lol! I really think if the show keeps going the route it did season 4 it will be cancelled. It's unsustainable, nothing makes sense. I said it once and i'll say it again what was the point of Rainer? Also why does Bo's father look like Rainer? And all that crap about Hale having to die is just that crap! They killed Massimo and Rainer and i'm sure they are dead, dead. I think she just wanted to get rid of Hale, so she could push the partnership between Dyson and Tasmin (not romantic, just buddy, buddy cop friends).

The origin seed though, I am still unsure as to how it works. How was it able to allow Massimo to copy Hale's power? That doesn't make sense. The una mens killed so many fae and yet you don't see them absorbing the powers.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
262. Kiersten
@stacymd2 - S2 of Arrow has been amazing. Stick with it. I too watch Teen Wolf. I like the mythology and the pack relationships and how it's integrated the adults a lot more this season.

@cmm - The Una Mens were able to take what power was used against them and turn it back on the user, as demonstrated first when they turned Bo's chi back on her and then when they wolfed out on Dyson. It's mildly plausible (if you stretch it) that when all of their power is contained in one seed and that seed is consumed by one person, that ability to turn power back on its originated becomes an ability to absorb the power of someone you've killed.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
263. Kiersten
I finally finished the episode. Am still processing. For all the doccubus bullshit, there was a lot more Dyson than DL in this one (thank God) and some powerful, deeply emotional Dyson/Bo, Dyson/Kenzi, and Dyson/Tamsin moments. Not surprisingly, most of DL was tied up dealing with the crazy madman of the season (shades of Taft) while waiting to be saved by Bo while everyone else held the line and got shit done. It's gonna take a few more viewings - and a lot more tequila and or vodka - to get a good grip on it all...if ever.
264. drusilla_doll
@Nypinta: sorry but I can never get behind Klaus/Caroline ship. It's horrible. He killed her boyfriend's mother and terrorized him and made him go into hiding. He's a huge dipshit who thinks a pony sketch can win her heart. And she's a hypocrite for falling for him, ignoring Tyler's legit pain and harping on about how DAMON is some kind of monster. Um what the fuck is Klaus then? He's like 10 times worse than Damon and whinier. LOL. Don't get me wrong, I love Klaus' tumultuous relationship with his siblings Rebekah and Elijah. But the Klaus/Caroline stuff makes me gag and get rather pissed off because of all the characters who got thrown under the bus to push that ship.
Nadine Robb
265. cmm
@kiersten When you put it that way it does make sense, barely. But just barely.
Maria Payne
266. Georgiana2494
@nypinta #254- I also think Lauren's bravado is misplaced. Let's be realistic the person who will be fighting of the attacks on Lauren will always be Bo. I really do not like what they have turned her character into. There is so much potential with Zoie Palmer but they have made her character ridiculous. Her character in the movie Coldblooded was so much better. It was someone who kicked ass and stuck to her convictions during a crazy situation.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
267. Kiersten
Also, not for nothing, but Bo murdered a human tonight - a crazy, evil, consumed with power human who had it coming to him, but still. He was unarmed and defenseless and she didn't hesitate to run him through. She is also not bothered one iota, in fact revels that in Doctor Lauren can now at fickle her whim alter the DNA of anyone, human or Fae.

I laughed out loud at her Hippocratic Oath quip. Hypocritical Oath.
268. JayCruz61
Wow! Was I ever wrong about Kenzi and Lauren. I guess that was my wishful thinking because of all of these characters Kenzi was my favorite. I just couldn't fathom them killing off this character. Well it wasn't all a lost. At least I got the Rainer thing right or maybe not, hmmm. Both of these characters can be revisited in Season 5, going forward, assuming the networks pick up another season. Over all I am very pleased with the poignant acting. Once again my hats off to Ksenia Solo for a great performance. In fact, to all of the actors.
269. drusilla_doll
Hippocratic oath, my ass. That Bo could be okay with people being transformed against their will either way: human to fae, or fae to human is reprehensible. But hey. Lauren always gets a pass. Because 'she did it for Bo' or some shit.
270. Bore-mudaTriangle
So.. wow. First off, on the doccubus note. I think EA keeps doccubus in main/most focus because of the Lauren/doccubus fans. I think *to her* they are the reason the show is so successful because they voice it and seem so passionate about it. She thinks the show will stay successful if doccubus is happy. I thought it was stupid, and was happy when Bo walked away at first, yet there she was, turning around.

I knew Kenzi was the one that was going to die, of course this will not be a permanant death because we all know Kenzi is not just Bo's heart, she is the heart of the show. It was sad but that scene was so rushed. They spend most of the episode dealing with Massimo and then they waste time on doccubus, when it could've been put towards a longer fight scene. Tamsin and Dyson (even Trick) were kicking asssss.

Okay, was I the only one who felt weird with the Tamsin and Dyson stuff? What I noticed first was when Bo said she fed off of Tamsin, Dyson was like "Oh, really?" and his facial expression/how he acted made it seem weird, like he knew something that we (and Bo) don't know. And to me most of their scenes seemed flirty. Maybe I looked into it too much because we are not sure if they are going down the Tamsin/Dyson route for sure. Even though Dyson does love Bo.

I was really, really shocked that Rainer ended that way. I didn't think he was a good guy at all, and he ended on a good note, no horns or anything. I'm hoping he is dead for good, yet.. I am not sure why they even introduced Rainer at all. If they needed a "prophecy" where something happened that Bo released her dad, I think they could've found a different way. He was just hated by everyone.

So when Bo finds the hell shoes, something bad will happen. Tamsin knows something that we don't (yet). Possibly she will go psycho succubus on the world and she will be the villain in season 5. ;P
271. drusilla_doll
It's a sound business decision for EA to cater to her most vocal rabid fans. However, artistically, it's pretty darned shitty when she sacrifices all canon plausibility to retcon past seasons and force/contort Doccubus back into some viable ship. They haven't addressed the feeding issue, the non-physical monogamy or the fact that they never communicate on any significant level like Bo/Dyson do. They are ignoring Lauren dumping Bo deliberately THREE fricking times to serve her own personal agenda. Seriously, it's ridiculous and anyone watching all the seasons should know this. But, hey, yay Doccutopia no matter how implausible, incompatible, inorganic and unrealistic they seem. Go fantasy!
272. J.Fall
Does this mean that both Dyson and Tamsin will be playing hide the shoe and keeping things from Bo? Surely not. There's no history of that at all. :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
273. Kiersten
@Bore-muda Triangle - I thought Dyson's "oh really" was along the lines of "fed on Hale how?" snark from S1. Mostly, it's because he and Tamsin banged and now Bo says she fed on Tamsin and Dyson's default experience when Bo feeds on someone is via sex so for a moment there was a picture in his head of what that would be between Bo and Tamsin both of which woman he's had carnal knowledge. And I think the flirty vibe is a result of their heal bang in episode 11.

It seemed as though Rachel Skarsten was playing Tamsin as sadly realizing that whatever may happen between her and Bo or her and Dyson, there would never be anything as strong as the fealty scene she witnessed between Bo and Dyson. There was a lot of sadness in her mein after Bo and Dyson quit the room. A lovely quiet moment by RS. Much like when Bo and Dyson and Kenzi stood in the cave mouth together and Tamsin looked on longingly. She's a part of the Happy Sunshine Gang now and she's happy to be there, but the core of that remains Bo and Kenzi and Dyson (just watch that ending again; it's all about the three of them with Trick and Tamsin looking on). I found the scene where Dyson retrieves Tamsin to be so touching with Dyson's vow, "I'm not leaving you behind this time," and Tamsin's rare show of vulnerability. They may be partners with benefits from time to time and who knows where that may or may not go, but the core of them, like the core of Dyson and Kenzi, isn't sexcapades but familial love and affection.

Rainer *was* hated by everyone and ultimately did - absolutely nothing that couldnt have been done without him in an easier way. I mean really, what was the point of him except to piss off the fan bases? He had zero impact as did Bo's "destiny" with him.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
274. Kiersten
It's not a sound business decision to cater to most vocal rabid fans (but not largest) when said fans have proven to eat their own and viciously rebel whenever you take a single innovative step, like, say, introduce Tamsin. If that's the motivating factor, write fan fiction and be done with it rather than disregard your shows history and twist and turn the character to really, really fight to make an otherwise toxic relationship happen. Or just write it better to begin with and go whole-hog so that there is no inconsistency or character retcon to start with. If that's the goal, then write it that way, stop jumping back and forth between "I'm unhappy; you love Dyson, I need my own life, I can't be with the Fae HEY WAIT I did it all for you!"
275. Bore-mudaTriangle
I agree @drusilla_doll. They never address anything. Except they constantly address Dyson's "faults" like having his love taken from him, etc. I'm sort of glad that EA actually said that Dyson and Bo communicate a lot better than Lauren and Bo and between them they are "so sexually charged." I'm also glad that she did mention there is something between Bo and Tamsin (she didn't say what, but at least she acknowledges it), because I for sure was thinking all subtle hints between them were going to be ignored, as most things are. She said that their are so many relationships to potentially set up Dyson/Tamsin vs. Bo/Tamsin. So.. we shall see.

What will I do with my Sunday nights now?!

And @Kiersten, yes I noticed Tamsin's sad state after that scene. I suppose you are right. I also loved the scene with her and Dyson at the gates, it was just a sweet little moment. :)
Susan White
276. whiskeywhite
You folks are chiming in so quickly, I can't keep up as I fiddle with my comments.

To say that I was disappointed with this episode would be a vast understatement for me. I note that you've already switched to discussing other TV shows. Jumping ship already? Or just treading water until more folks have seen the episode and can comment?

Rainer, in my view, remained the dud he's been all along and his death was anti-climactic. Or maybe the word is welcomed. Yawn. To Bo: "We shared something true." What? Oh, and BTW, how could they have been "fighting tyranny between the light and the Dark"? How can there be tryanny been two grouyps of equal power? I agree thatRainer is dead, dead (or at least that is my prayer).

Massimo is also gone (they can't possibly bring him back again! But he was at least interesting). Massimo was pretty over the top, vacillating between being all powerful and whining for his mummy. You have to give it to Tim Rozon for giving Massimo his all.

I have to say that I enjoyed Dyson pledging his fealty to Bo. What can I say, I love Dyson at his most noble. I eat it up:
All my life I have been searching for a king when what I should have been seeking was a queen. He goes gallantly down on one knee (memories of "(Dis)Members". He doesn't go down on one knee to Trick). My blood is yours, my soul, my body (mmmm, his body). I swear fealty to you, Isabeau. No matter where you come from or what made you, by your side is where I want to be, forever (great speech). A brief exchange ensues about her having already fed off Tamsin, to which he responds, Really? Then, Dyson summing it up: I love you.
He doesn't get a kiss then, but he does get a big hug as Bo tells him she wants him to fight beside her, not for her. He's also given her a fervant hug earlier when he and Kenzi arrive to find she's OK.

Later, after Bo faces the revenants starting to pour out of the gates of hell, and tries to chi suck them into submission, she instead goes all blue-eyed and "Humans and fae, all will bow before me." Dyson, seeing that she's losing herself, implores, "Bo, come back to me" (to me). She begs in return, "Dyson, do something." He kisses her with deep feeling and she returns to herself.
Susan White
277. whiskeywhite
Kenzi will certainly be brought back. And it definitely seems that Tamsin will return, since she is alive at the end of the season and is carried back to safety by Dyson (was it from the gates of Valhhala? It was definitely gates, but how would he have gotten there?). And I think it'll be more than cop buddies between them. When Bo chi sucks Tamsin to heal, she reflects that she tastes "different, happy." And, as Kiersten says, she looks pained when she witnesses all of part of the fealty scene. Dyson is very tender towards Tamsin as he gathers her up into his arms at the gates. But I agree that they may be "partners with benefits".

Excellent questions about why Val isn't the Santiago heir. Trick challenged Hale on that a season or two back (but they forgot). And I wanted to throw a sock at the TV, but shouted instead when Kenzi referred to Hale as her "boyfriend". I have railed before against this 'girlfriend' 'boyfriend' sh*t between mature adults.
278. drusilla_doll
@whiskeywhite: You're right, all of that is awesome. But I'm getting tired of Bo being more about Lauren than anyone else. Still, it is fantastic to see that Dyson could help bring Bo back from a place where in the past only Lauren could do. Supposedly.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
279. Kiersten
The gates of Valhalla tripped me up too - until it faded into the graffiti wall. I think Dyson sniffed her out...literally...and until he touched her, he only saw the wall. He definitely saw the gates at one point because he looks them over with awe. But more, I think this is a bit they decided to throw in for affect and work out how it happened later, which is why Dyson shrugs it off as "it doesnt matter how I got here" from the start. They needed the closure of Dyson finding Tamsin this time no matter what to bring that thread full circle and given the lovely moment Rachel Skarsten and Kris Holden-Ried made of it, I'm glad to give 'em that pass for now.
280. doppleganger
Still processing. Too many shortcuts without explanations to make me truly appeased (e.g. no explanation of the memory dichotomies, who WAS Rainer exactly, etc) (truly, why were Rainer OR the Una Mens even necessary?) .

BUT I did love the sort-of wake-up call nature of a lot of Bo's interactions this episode. I have actually always pulled for Bo/Lauren when they were ... remotely plausible (halfway through S3 it was sort of obvious that they have incredibly divergent views of what makes a full life). But, seriously, the most awkward scene of the entire episode was that b/w Bo & Lauren. No offense to the actresses, who have shown great chemistry on screne before, but it was stilted and weird. I don't know what the doccubus fans are cheering about. And Massimo being taken down so easily was also ... meh. I mean, when Bo was chi-sucking Evony, why didn't he Hale-her or use some other random Una Mens power? He just stood there like a crying puppy.

In any case, they created too many plot threads they couldn't tie up this season (clearly) ... seems to me they are planning to consolidate storylines for S5 (which they will definitely get for Showcase), and then maybe we will see a return to the storylines we can all dig.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
281. Kiersten
@doppelganger - I think a Quest for Kenzi would be a great overarching storyline that *everyone* could get behind, and a suitable theme for what could be a final season five. I also like the idea of exploring Tamsin's connections to Valhalla, her fears over why Bo should never have the Hel shoes, Doctor Lauren falling deeper into open opposition with the Fae, perhaps even legit Fae Enemy #1 Big Bad, and Bo's dual natures continuing to war for her long as Dyson remains by her side to pull her back when she goes too far. ;) What I mean is that there seems to be some initial set up for interesting plots for S5...but then I once thought the same thing about S4
282. drusilla_doll
I agree that saving Kenzi is something we can all get behind. Still, I am not that pleased with Dyson doubling down on the devotion with no indication of reciprocation, Doccubus getting royal treatment despite obvious and glaring flaws and Tamsin being treated as some kind of plot-waif they can just shove at another character rather than giving her an agency of her own.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
284. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll - I think Bo gave ample demonstration of reciprocation. She was deeply moved to tears and the physical ease between them was back in play along with the easy banter and intuitive movements. The entire night's stategy was planned and executed by Team Badass: Mom went to fetch her always in need of a rescue, sometime lover while Dad stayed behind with Gramps and the "kids" to fight the Big Bad. There's never been a question of how Bo feels about Dyson (outside of the Rainer bullshit that is now null and void) and even Kenzi knows it. I do agree, though, that the overt "royal treatment" is reserved for Doccubus because ultimately, that is EA's agenda and actually having Bo say "I love you" to Dyson is a risk she'll never take until the last moment (if then). Easier for her to kill Kenzi then to allow that to happen. And yes, give Tamsin some freaking agency already. She can be happy and a snarky badass at the same time.
285. doppleganger
@drusilla_doll First, thanks for the hug at the beginning of all of this. I think we needed it. As a pro-Tamsin, I don't feel like she got the big brush-off in this episode. There was really no room for romance (the Dyson scene was more about war than love ... and the Lauren scene was super weird), and Tamsin gave her the talking-to Bo needed to snap out of it. The way she rushed to Kenzi at the end makes me wonder what scenes they cut in 4/12, but I dug it, of course. I liked the Tam/Dyson moments that showed she had found family (didn't see it as romantic at all). And I am SO HAPPY she didn't die. I thought maybe Rachel Skarsten was moving on from LG. If there's a s5, I definitely want to see her knockin' about.

@Kiersten Well, shall we hope EA listens to fandom (outside of the vocal minority doccubus shippers). Because we are *begging* for a streamlined Kenzi-quest. Let's hope we get it. B/w now and then: Orphan Black and GoT.

Been a real pleasure with you lot. For sure.
Susan White
286. whiskeywhite
Great summary Kiersten: Mom went to fetch her always in need of a rescue, sometime lover while Dad stayed behind with Gramps and the "kids" to fight the Big Bad.

At one point Bo asks (tells?) Dyson to deal with the revenants (she has much more important things to do). He replies, somewhat tongue in cheek, and quite charmingly, "Hold back the armies of hell. I thought you would never ask, my queen." It reminded me of the first time we meet the revenants. All she said to him was "Dyson" with the clear implication of "just deal with that." He didn't have a chance that time, and he's almost defeated, and is injured, this time. I agree that the sight of him and Tamsin fighting side by side was enjoyable and he's impressed with Tamsin's fighting skills.

I agree that they won't have Bo say to Dyson, "I love you." Too bad. But someone said that tonight -- was it Kenzi?-- "Bo loves Dyson and she loves Lauren."

Speaking of Kenzi, despite KS's wonderful acting skills, I thought that final scene when Kenzi looks back as she walks in the hellmouth/energy field was odd, to say the least. What was with the strange smile? And we were right -- Kenzi was the "warrior" in the prophecy. She calls herself a warrior and it's fittingly on her gravestone.

And no need to say 'goodbye' for now, folks. As we have demonstrated in the past, we can continue wonderful discussions for a long time.
287. drusilla_doll
Don't get me wrong, I love Tamsin/Dyson moments. But I know a lot of people (including myself) bought into the Tamsin/Bo and continued Dyson/Bo romances so it feels a little...contrived by the writers to shed themselves of obstacles to the Doccubus fantasy. I could be wrong, and I hope I am. Then again, I would love for someone, anyone, to truly appreciate the depth of passion and devotion Dyson can bring to the table if needed. /sigh As much as Bo may feel bonded to him as a liegeman, I don't believe she feels the need to reciprocate in an equal way. Not like her blind worship of all things Lauren.

This is only my opinion, not having watched the finale. Perhaps the scenes with Dyson will resonate more than I anticipated, but I doubt that EA et al allowed for any kind of equal representation.

I'm starting to chafe at Dyson being so devoted for no future reward on the horizon. Simply because I want the guy to be loved unconditionally by someone and to be happy. Just one person (not perfect Ciara who was always meant to be a sacrificial lamb) Perhaps it's an unrealistic wish considering EA's apparenat bias against him and towards BoLo.
288. jdknight
Was Rainer buried in Kenzi's grave? Can't think why else Bo would have been talking about him then or why the stone would have a masculine surname
Kiersten Hallie Krum
289. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll - but see, that's the corner they've written themselves into b/c in S1 & the beginning of S2 Bo *did* love him unconditionally and they *were* (briefly) happy. Their's was meant to be the core ultimate romantic relationship of the series. It's only when EA took over and the show immediately moved into Doccutopia and the Myth of Wonder Lauren that they had to write Bo as antagonistic toward Dyson whenever possible in order to shore up the toxicity of the doccubus relationship. But b/c Dyson's character was already entrenched in his love for Bo (with a whole season being about the fallout of losing that love) they can't ever move him out of that original plan, which now tinges his devotion and love with a patina of pathos. And yet, notice Bo never says "no" or "don't do that" or "I'll never love you" or "Dont cock block me". She cries and then she reaches for him and she holds on. Unconditionally.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
290. Kiersten
@jdknight MacKenzie is actually Kenzi's full first name. "Kenzi" is a shortened nickname of that. I think her crazy aunt may call her MacKenzie in S2. Bo's voice-over says that they buried Rainer next to the field of something or other, presumably the battlefield he went to visit when he first got off the train.
291. TheUberFan
I got very little right in my personal theorizing. I guess a large part of it is stuff they could fill in later but honestly, I don't think they really care about the huge gaping plot holes. So okay.

I was pretty put off that Bo ditched saving the world to run after Lauren, who put herself into the position she was in by what she did last week.

And I was even more irritated that it seems the only real application of Kenzi's shadow thief skills was in passing it on to Lauren.

I've never seen a character's skillset, background, training, experience and personality be padded as I do here ... and I'm never a big fan of the hard sell that actually makes me less of a supporter and more of an eye roller.

Kenzi walked into that gateway alone and Bo almost didn't get there in time to see it...and she didn't even get a chance to say goodbye.

I don't know. I adore Kenzi but I have no doubt she'll be back in season 5. The rest of it though...sigh. Sadly underwhelmed or frustrated.

It was fun seeing the fight and seeing Tamsin calling Bo out on her whining. And of course the wings.

I may be back next year to see how they get Kenzi...but I don't know if I'll be as invested as I was this year.
Carmen Pinzon
292. bungluna
@drusilla_doll - so it's that kind of delusio, er fantasy as opposed to an adult sci-fi urban fantasy. Now it makes sense!

I keep hoping that Kenzie is signed up for some wonderful new project that will leave her no time for this crap. All the actors deserve so much better, imo.

At this point, the show needs new characters that are not destined for the wonder-twin-snatches, but meant for some other action purpose. We've lost two charcters who were not after Bo in a sexual way. Dyson deserves a relationship of his own, be it friends with benefits or a true partnership.

As for Bo and WonderMengeLauren? They deserve each other.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
293. Kiersten
Here at the end of season four, one-third of the original cast is dead.
Marie Sullivan
294. minime2
The finale interview is up and this one didn't leave he trying to strangle my computer

I loved this little nugget
TVG: Going back to Dyson, we got a Bo/Dyson moment this episode, in addition to a Bo/Lauren one. Was this a sort of gift to the Byson fans after a season of Bo being with Lauren and several other people? EA: I really do think it’s pretty interesting how Bo and Dyson’s relationship has evolved. I love the point where he swore fealty to her. I’m not ruling anything out, especially on Dyson’s end and his feelings for Bo, but it will be tough to resolve those feelings going forward. And it’s funny to me how much more communicate those two have than Lauren and Bo. I feel like it’s still so livid, so sexually charged between the ladies that Dyson and Bo are better able to communicate. But maybe that also speaks to the chemistry between Bo and Lauren.
295. J.Fall
It encourages you that Bo and |Lauren are so hot for each other they can't speak. :) Imagine EA with a bucket of fish feeding a bunch of clapping seals. One fish each to keep them happy, one fish to rule them ALL!
Marie Sullivan
296. minime2
um no J. Fall I am encouraged that Bo & Dyson's relationship is evolving and as shown all season they have great communication, the basis for any relationship. In fact this season she has had more communication with Dyson then with Kenzi :( . Going by that little interview Bo & DL have chemistry but can't talk to each other and just don't seem to get each others needs, they have a relationship based on sex and nothing more. I was happy to see EA talk about Dyson having a storyline other then being shirtless like season 3. During comic con her exact words about Dyson in season 3 were we have lost of shirtless Dyson. It makes me happy to see she was actively writing about a developing relationship this season.

Did anyone else get tones of Buffy jumping through the portal to close it after it was opened by "the key"…. Also why every season do we have a missing sunshine gang member?
297. Bore-mudaTriangle
When I look back on this season, I don't think there is anything that I will miss. In previous seasons, I was always sad at the end of the season because I would either miss something like the Bo/Kenzi friendship, or the snarky Tamsin. I would always think of something and think, "This season is gone, I wish it wasn't because I'd love to see more of ______." There was hardly any Bo/Kenzi (in the old way) and Tamsin wasn't used as much as I would've liked, not even with those things, I just look back and am indifferent on the whole entire season. The only thing I really liked was the Tamsin/Kenzi friendship and Dyson in the finale was nice.

Also, I'm very unsure of why they didn't wrap up all the Rainer things. Why did the book say he is evil? What ACTUALLY happened on the train? Oh well. I guess I will try to be patient for next season, because although this season wasn't the best, Lost Girl always brings me back. I will feed my LG needs with some fanfic in the mean time! Thank you all for the amazing conversation and theories! I enjoyed myself here.
Susan White
298. whiskeywhite
I've finally read the EA interview. I always think that the show could use more strong male energy. Oh, really? Good. I’m always interested to explore some new, interesting male characters, whatever that means. Whatever that means indeed. I'm not of the 'male hate' persuasion, but if she thinks that Rainer is one of those interesting male characters (and she does), we're doomed.

It’s funny to me how much more communication (Dyson and Bo) have than Lauren and Bo. Why is that "funny" to her? She wrote it that way. It is notable, for sure. And does EA not own a dictionary? I feel like it’s still so livid, so sexually charged between the ladies ... "Livid" means "furiously angry" or "dark bluish gray in color" (as in a livid bruise). See comment about her misuse of "tyranny" above. At least in the show you would think there would be copy editors.

"I think Kris was really wonderful in the finale." Now there's something I can agree with. "And what a choice Dyson made to let Kenzi walk to her death and hold back Bo." That I can also agree with. It was one of the most interesting scenes of the episode. He's horrified, and as we said when discussing the preview, the looks on his face are heart wrenching as he moves from 'No!' to just deep pain. Remarkable acting by KHR. Yet Kenzi convinces him. He knows she's right. He can easily stop her but supports her to be the warrior and save them all.

The interviewer goes on about how messed up we supposedly are about Kenzi's death. That wasn't my reaction at all. Unlike Hale's death, which was needless and sad, Kenzi's is a great sacrifice. Even the fulfilment of a dream. And to be less serious, she went out in a fabulous pair of boots.

I'm sorry to say that I was not impressed with Anna Silk's acting at the end. She carries a huge load in this series and generally does it very competantly and often well. And she has to do an awful lot of crying, which is hard for any actor. But I don't think she pulled off the sorrow at Kenzi's loss. I had the same reaction to the crying scene over Hale's body.

Loud out loud award of the day, @J. Fall's One fish each to keep them happy, one fish to rule them ALL!
299. lonewolf
@everyone, I just finished watching and I'll be back. But, who has the first shoe. We know the una mens had it when Bo slaughtered them. But we don't hear about it actually, until Le Fae Epoque, when Bo goes walking into the una mens lair with it. So this is something that may be one of the main threads next season, unless of course Lauren needs saving again. Then it's to hell with the helskore, or whatever they're called, shoes. Here Dyson! Take these and put them on!
301. crizle
I'm gutted hale died. I said after season 1 him and kenz should get together. So I waited n watched patiently only for them to be together minutes, freshly engaged and ofcourse he dies. Why can't they just have just one strong happy couple in the series. Yawn. Hope they find a way to bring them both back in season 5 (if there is gunna be a season 5)
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