Jan 13 2014 10:06am

Lost Girl Season 4, Episode 9 Discussion: Sweet Child O’ Mine

Tamsin and the king in Lost Girl 4x09 Destiny's ChildLast night's Lost Girl introduced a new character who may or may not be someone important to Bo. Here's the synopsis of Lost Girl Season 4, Episode 9, “Destiny's Child”:

Bo resolves to go to hell and back to get the answers she’s been searching for, with or without her friends' support. Meanwhile, Kenzi's determined to uncover what Trick's hiding.

So who do you think the new guy really is? What's his importance to Bo?

Note: This is an episode discussion post, so there will of course be MAJOR SPOILERS for the episode in the comments.

Want more Lost Girl? Our weekly recaps will be back TOMORROW, following its Season 4 debut on SyFy tonight!

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1. nypinta
It seems the theme of this season is about who people are when certain choices from their past are removed. Bo, Tamsin, Trick. Kind of like the first episode was a template for the entire season.

Weird how most people are better.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
2. Kiersten
Well, that would track with Dyson losing his love thanks to The Norn (Freaking Norn!). He became a different person (not a better one though) once the choice from his past, to love Bo and commit to her as his mate, was removed. He was just two seasons too early, I guess.
Susan White
3. whiskeywhite
@nypinta, good point about the look on Kenzi's face when Bo said, "I love you both." We were clearly meant to notice it, so presumably that means something for the future. It's also notable that when Bo announces her intention to get back on the train, Dyson and Lauren both immediately step forward to go with her, but not Kenzi. That traditionally would have been Kenzi's role, no matter how dangerous and foolish she might think the proposed (mis)adventure to be.

Lots of good points all around in the previous thread. I said to my partner last night, a little while after the episode had finished (and he had had his opportunity for his usual anti-fantasy rant), "Well, gotta hit the computer. The comments will be coming in." I really do look forward so much to your thoughts. I love you -- all. ;-)

Assorted thoughts/questions:

What's with Kenzi preening at the compliment from crow brother #1? She usually has a better bullshit-line detector than that.

The frat boys jokes are back. We have the fart joke when Tamsin steps on the squeaky floor board, Kenzi accusing Trick of "PMSing" about the crow, Tamsin suggesting they "take a dump in (Trick's) bed," and Crow #1's wife: "If you had been better at eating certain things when we were together, I would never have left you for your brother." Oh ha ha, clever humour. And what was Tamsin's crack about writing something in Trick's blank book? It sounded like "writing weird dicks", but that's probably my grubby mind at work. And what's with Kenzi's remark about "have a late period magical box"? Is that supposed to be funny, referring as I suppose it does to women being worried about a late period as a sign of an unplanned pregnancy? As Kenzi would say, "merde'.

In fact, what is it with Tamsin and the crude cracks? Is she not fully grown up yet? And what was that story about her and Kenzi acting irresponsibly? It sounded like she said that they visited a fae veteran's hospital and switched the charts because (unintelligible). Very funny.
Susan White
4. whiskeywhite
More assorted questions/comments:

Why do the crow brothers have British accents? Is it British actor affirmative action week (complete with the anti-France joke)? Or do the British have folklore about evil crows? (I await our folklore experts).

Perhaps answering my own question, I was about to ask what was the seven-crow rhyme was about but decided to do my own research. It is apparently a British nursery rhyme dating back to the 1600s about magpies, considered to be birds of ill omen. Crows are substituted in the US where magpies are uncommon. Seven Crows was an "official" Buffy novel, which many of you may have recognized but I had to look up because of my Buffy generation gap.

It's sad that they're playing the Dyson-Lauren relationship for laughs but we're supposed to take seriously the locker room discussion between them when they're talking about what each brings to the battle. Dyson tells Lauren that she's "terrifying." Huh? I had to replay that a couple of times to get what he said because, in addition to the fact that KHR sometimes mumbles, the word made no sense.
5. nypinta
On the surface it was a really good episode. Bo finally takes charge of her situation and decides to take a leap of faith to get answers. Lauren and Dyson have her back, but just because Kenzi and Trick didn't agree doesn't mean they weren't wrong. But it was nice that at least Kenzi disagreed to Bo's face. Trick has a tendency to do the opposite, and well look at where we are. The stuff between Kenzi and Tamsin, although crude at times, was still fun because it's clear they've done a lot more hanging out than we've seen on screen. But I still think Tamsin isn't finished cooking. She seems to be at early 20s age now, not back to her full on ass kicking self like she was last season (before she started to melt down). I was OK with Dyson and Lauren teaming up, although as stated I'm not fond of the forced triangle crap.

However. A lot of the episode makes zero sense when you really look at it. Bo sends herself a jar of dark smoke. How did she get it? You would think she either captured the crow herself or got it from someone on the train. He pops out and tells her he did his thing getting her on the train and then his brother trapped him. OK. So maybe Bo got the jar from the brother. Except that wasn't what happened at all since it was all a ruse to get her and kill her in revenge for The Wanderer cutting them all off or something. So then how did Bo get the jar? And why would they take her to a fae cemetary? Is it warded against humans accidently wandering into the graveyard and disappearing? Except it can't be far since Dyson was able to track them there with Lauren in just a few hours. (I'm assuming a good deal of time passed based on Kenzi's comment about looking through Trick's stuff for hours.) And then when she does go to the underworld she meets the one leviathan that has been waiting for Bo and wants that mark that Bo has? That better be paid off on later. So she gets back on the train and confronts the person that abducted her in the first place but this time she's able to bring him back with her? How? And why didn't she before? I could see it making sense if she needed to get the shoes and bring them with her and it was with the shoes that he could make his escape... but she didn't bring anything with her. So why is this time different?

I did like the stuff with Trick and the ludwan. And the idea of doing something so horrible and then wiping your own mind of it. I wonder if he wrote away his lust for power too. Because the Trick we saw with Tamsin in the past was nothing like the Trick we see with Dyson in his past.

Next episode sounds like a stand alone, but who knows.
6. Darthfaeder
Wow all I can say is I hope that the PTB Jay and Emily have a good plan of where they are going with this mess. I have gone to several sites to read the reaction and everyone is very angry and there are alot of WTF is happening to this show? I would blame it all on the writers but Jay F. and Emily A. still have the final word so keep that in mind when you want to pin all your fury on the writers. I haven't seen the episode yet but after listening to all the rage I might have to wait a couple of days? I hope LG gets it's shit together because they are going to lose alot of their fans with the mess that is season 4. Here is a good idea for
season 5 Emily and Jay. More Tamsin More Tamsin More Tamsin. I am not the only Tamsin fan. Everywhere I go there are alot of Tamsin fans, and they are not all Valkubus shippers. She doesn't have to appear in every episode next season but for pete's sake she only appeared in only half the episodes this season. When I say Tamsin I mean adult Tamsin. The Tamsin from season 3. Trust me on this you won't be sorry.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
7. Kiersten
Tamsin has always had a crude sense of humor as per her "because when they were handing out brains you got a second dick" crack to Dyson in early S3. I think it's probably a sign that she *is* coming back to her adult self, though admittedly that and the menstration jokes (don't forget "you mean the time we went to the hospital and changed all the charts because you had your period and...") were heavy handed in this episode. Yes, Tamsin does say "draw weird dicks" about the blank book.

The sexually lewd jokes however are par for the course with LG and really, considering this is a show about a woman who gets her power from sex, I dont have nearly the same objection to them as some. If you're expecting high brow sex jokes, you're in the wrong show. I thought the eating crack was a low burn but funny. That said, more man hate abounds!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
8. Kiersten
I think the first thing this show has to do is great a freaking show bible together and pay attention to the damn consistency when writing new episodes.

I am beginning to wonder how much is getting cut in the final edits and that, if we had a better cut, more would make sense.

@nypita - I too thought it was awfully easy for Bo to get Rainer off the train now. Last time she jumped, she got that sickness that required an elemental to heal her but now she's okey doke? Is Rainer an elemental?

If Bo had to get on the train willingly to free Rainer from the curse, why did he have her smokenapped in the first place? She's known for going to the aid of Fae and humans who are in need and has a particularly personal jones for people who have been cursed. He couldn't have just asked?

Why does she have to be declared Dark to get on the train to free him? Dyson didn't need to be Dark Fae to get on it, he only needed the ticket and the elemental. With effort, I can see the Crows subbing for the elemental, but why didn't Bo need a ticket?

How did PastTrick hire PastTamsin if she's Dark Fae? Trick as Blood King wasn' t Dark Fae (as far as we know since once you declare there's no takebacks and he's been Light Fae declared since the start of the show).

If she arranged for the box to be sent to herself, then Bo must have trapped the crow in the jar, so how then did he plan the ruse with his brother and wife?

Ow. My brain hurts
9. nypinta
I din't think Trick hired Tamsin. He just struck a deal with her to not take Rainer's soul in exchange for a clean slate. And I think this happened before he wrote the Blood Laws so Light and Dark might have been able to do business with each other at that time. But that makes me wonder if The Wanderer didn't seek out Tamsin on purpose to find Bo knowing her part in his situation? But if he could have gotten off the train himself, why didn't he earlier? Unless he always could, what he really wanted was to force Trick into remembering him which would undo whatever else Trick wrote. What if now everyone in the fae world remembers Rainer the Defiant because Trick made the ludwan release his memories? That gust of wind at the mention of his name from Trick has to mean something.
Susan White
10. whiskeywhite
Yes, @nypinta:
she meets the one leviathan that has been waiting for Bo and wants that mark that Bo has? That better be paid off on later
I, too, was wondering about all that. And I very much liked the ludwan as well.

Point well taken about Tamsin's first 'dick' joke, Kiersten. But even that was more clever than this season's crop. I thought I heard something about "period" in the hospital 'joke' but I wrote it as 'unintelligible' since I couldn't believe my ears. (And what's even funny about switching hospital charts? I don't get it). Somehow I don't remember this level of low brow humour in past seasons. Can't we have clever sex jokes? I'm sure Kenzi made some in Season 1, though I can't bring one to mind right away. Hell, I'd even take Dyson's "dress under the right man" joke over this stuff, which shows how truly desperate I am.

Re: man hate -- we did have the ludwan pronouncing that all men are liars, for no clear reason (I get that she has an issue with Trick choosing her sister over her).

Kiersten, you say that Trick has "been Light Fae declared since the start of the show." Where's the evidence for that? I don't remember him (or anyone else) actually ever saying that. Dyson, for instance, introduces Trick to Bo in 1.02 as "one of our Fae elders" (not "one of our Light Fae elders"). Trick runs a way station which is neutral ground for Light and Dark, though admittedly he hangs out mostly with Light Fae, including his 'knight', Dyson. I wrote a (no doubt overly long) reflection on that a while ago. I was asking whether Trick, as the Blood King who rules over (or at least can control) both Light and Dark, is actually neither Light nor Dark. The Una Mens appoint him as the acting Ash, but that's because they don't know he's the Blood King. Are we just assuming he's Light because of the company he normally keeps?

Does anyone know how the rating are doing for this season?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
11. Kiersten
As I've said before, I liked the "dress under the right man," joke. I found it flirty, hot, and fun and much better written and delivered than what Tamsin was spouting in this episode.

If Dyson is saying "our" with regard to Trick's status, he means Light Fae. He would not have pledged himself to a Dark elder. He would not have been able to do so according to Fae law.
12. Onceinabluemoon
Sorry, have to agree with whiskeywhite. That dress joke was vulgar. I think the Tamsin stuff this episode was childish, but it really didn't bother me. When your "mom" is Kenzi it's bound to happen. :)
C. H.
13. SmurfFae
Hi! I´ve been gone over the holidays and couldn't comment, but am back now.
Also liked this episode in general, but the triangel-development seemed a little … uneven (in spite of being telegraphed very strongly over the last couple episodes).

Bo's definitely somehow manipulated by Rainer & His Mark. I think the whole plan (going dark, sending one message via the opera-fae and sending the bottle) was plotted by Rainer, to get Bo back on the train.

So Hugin and Munin are supposed to be Odin's ravens ... weird, that there are more Odin-references, know that we've seen Rainer ... I really want to see what kind of fae he is.
14. Anina
Several episodes ago I decided that apparently I was watching a completely new show. One that I had never encountered before, but with the same title, characters and actors. Really, if you look at S4 like this, it's very enjoyable.

This reminds me a lot of "Fringe", where they completely lost me in S4 (I simply didn't know any longer in which time frame / universe the plot was taking place) and S5 was so horribly bleak that it did not have anything to do with the very funny stuff they did in the beginning (I'm talking about Walter, of course). It happens when a show "grows up", I guess.

I didn't much like this episode, what with Kenzi acting like an idiot (really, writing in Trick's book with his blood? And she even mentions that the last time this brought the Garuda upon them!).
Bo telling Dyson and Lauren that they need to watch her walk away. Have some milk and cookies and go to bed early, kids! Mummy needs to do this alone (because it worked so well the last time around with Aife). Dyson whining about being family ... urgh.

Getting all hot and bothered now, need to stop. Sorry about the rant.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
15. Kiersten
It's like in the last two episodes they've undone everything they set up in the first seven, certainly as far as relationships are concerned. And the worst part (to me) is that I know everyone was working *really* hard to write and produce this season, which, overall, I've really enjoyed and is a HUGE improvement over season three in nearly every way. They worked sometimes without power, sometimes in intense summer heat, often long, long hours only for the actors to then get on a plane without sleep and go do public appearances. All that effort and everything is still all over the place. They should all get and have a better return for their considerable investment.

Where did the Una Mens go? How do they fit into Rainer's return? I'm asssuming that their invitation to Trick to become one of them happened around the same time as his banishment of Rainer from memory considering both were ye olden years ago. Suppose it depends on how long the gap was between Trick banishing Rainer and deciding to end the Fae War. But suddenly, nobody can be bothered to worry about the Fae boogie men that had them quaking up till E8! What the huh now?
16. nypinta
Pretty much everything Kenzi and Tamsin did was incredibly stupid. I get that Tamsin needed to touch some of his blood to trigger her memory or something, but why did it need to be fresh? Why couldn't she have found the book and while looking at it the book react to her the same way? Then it wouldn't have made them look so foolish as to mess with something that powerful. It's like walking into an ex-lovers work place to screw with him and messing with all the dials at his workstation even though he/she works at a nuclear power plant. The same with the box. Why did Tamsin have to know what it was? Oh yes, lets mention a myth about an unopenable box that is so powerful you'd think opening it the wrong way could open a vortex to a hell dimension and then just go ahead and play with it anyhow. How about a little ignorance is bliss kind of thing and have Trick tell them what the stupid box was afterwards. Of course, if they didn't actually use his blood they could have skipped the box. But it seems like someone was proud of a bunch of research and cool things they found to use for the show and they weren't going to NOT use them goddammit. Put it in even if it doesn't fit!

But it's just odd that the Una Mens are terrified of Rainer. Trick acts like he's Lucifer incarnate. Yet in the flashback Trick is the horrific one and Rainer is fighting against him.

And it's a good question to whether or not Trick is Light. It might be that he as the Blood King wasn't but rewrote himself as if he was and since he could write things so that even he would forget he might not have ever known he was ever Dark. And in the flashback with Tamsin he didn't mention a wife so he might have been Dark at that time, rewrote himself a little soul cleansing and made himself Light via his blood, met Isabeau and have Aife, then when he forced an end to the war with his blood, he wrote himself a knew identity as well as Trick, an even Lighter Light than he made himself before he met his wife. I have to wonder if the consequence of him trying to fix Aife in S1 was Taft.

PS Both Dyson and Lauren where a touch whiney with the family crap.

PPS The Una Mens love order and adherance to rules. Rainer's name is "Rainer the Defiant". Yeah, they're going to hate him. So far, asshole Trick and the uber scary death beaurocrates are the only ones that really fear him and I dislike both of them immensly right now. So I'm still wondering if he isn't the bad buy we have been led to believe. To the victors go the spoils.
17. TheGardner
@whiskeywhite - A lot of the humor was "low-brow"; take the crow's wife stating that her husband's um, oral presentation was lacking, hence the reason she dumped him. In the blood book Tamsin said they should draw weird dicks, farting floorboards and there were three period cracks by Kenzi; Trick PMSing, the trip to the fae veterans hospital when she was cramping and the late joke. So um yeah, high quality stuffl

So is Rainer supposed to be like a younger version of Dyson? He has decent features, but I am not into beards or that scruffy look, shave that thing, do something with the hair and maybe we can talk. I did have to laugh when Bo told Dyson to shush, I half expected her to tell him to go lay down. On a side note I found it really lazy that Dyson has had the same hairdo for 114 years, like dude they're called barbers and have been around forever kinda like you.

Bo clearly has been brainwashed by Rainer and my spec is that her "true love" will be the one to bring her out of it, possibly at the expense of their life. I think that is significant that the Levi Jeans lady said Bo wears Lauren's humanity like a shield. I feel this gives weight to the spec that Lauren is the one who dies. I think it is ridiculous for her to say she loves them equally. I refuse to believe that Bo loves Dyson after the way she has treated him, I know many of you disagree, but for me that is not the way you show love.

Tamsin and Kenzi are a good pairing, but they have nothing on Bo and Kenzi. Also I think Bo was a massive douche for that she loves Dyson and Lauren whilst ignoring her heart(Kenzi) and grandfather.

Did anyone else get the impression that Dyson was flirting with Lauren? His line to her about not being able to choose came off kind of creeper and Lauren's reply that she could kind of read like "I'm flattered, but no fucking way." Or maybe that's just how I see it and frankly I couldn't blame him, Lauren's hot, but I swear if they make the lesbian sleep with a man it's on angry mob style.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
18. Kiersten
I think Dyson was trying to compliment DL. Why I cant possibly imagine since she constantly responds with a bitchy shot. But he was acknowledging that he sees why Bo would be (inexplicably) drawn to DL and, once again, parroting, if in a backhand way, the party-line about Wonder Lauren. But before the Internet could meltdown about a man acknowledging he'd have a hard time turning down a hot lesbian, she reminded him that it would never be an issue as her choice in every permutation is always going to be a woman, in this case, Bo.

This show will never have an acknowledged lesbian/gay character have sex with a person of the opposite gender. They did not do it with Flora (she was not a lesbian) and they will not do it with Doctor Lauren.
Dine Stueg
19. Nocturne
I don't really know what to think of this episode. It had progress and revealed the Tamsin/Trick past, which was good. Iwould have liked it if Levi had solved the triangle, but no ofcourse not. The triangle must live forever to be a big plot point in every episode... blegh...

The ending was a nice shock, with Bo being happily with Rainer and I like Trick's confessions, becoming more dark and revealing a nasty side.

I admit that I have sidekick disease: I always seem to like supporting characters better than the main characters. It's the reason why I'm usually not that bothered if Bo's storyline is a bit disappointing sometimes. The B plotlines usually even the score for me in the end, but the Tamsin/Kenzi scenes felt a bit flat this time. The humor was lacking (taking a crap in a bed... I'm not offended, I just didn't think it was funny. They can make much more funnier lines than that) and all their actions were desperately being stupid and knowing it. I like characters being smart and then messing up, not consciously being dumb and continuing that way. I felt they could have done so much more with the two of them than this, because Tamsin and Kenzi are awesome characters, but not in this episode.

So for my entertainment I focused more on the guest characters. I really liked Dao Ming (she was fun), I like the references to earlier episodes and Hugin was hot! lol

I guess my final opinion is that the episode was okay, but not great. I really missed Hale and Vex.

For the upcoming episodes I hope that Rainer will turn out to be a serious evil enemy, it is needed. Bo needs more time with characters who aren't in love with her and who aren't guest stars. It was really painful Bo going away with the crows and she only says something about love to Dyson and Lauren. Not anything to Kenzi and Trick! Bo is more than the love triangle, right ?

Also, I didn't understand if Trick had erased Rainer from everyone's memories, how come the Unamens can remember him?
20. stacymd2
I just watched 409. At first viewing I liked it. The pacing was good. All of the major characters had something important to do. Even though Hale wasn't there, I'm glad that he was name checked. The plot moved forward. The acting was good. The costumes were nice.

I felt bad for Trick. The king he once was must have been rotten to the core. It's sad how his past still haunts him and hurting the people he loves.
I liked Kenzi/Tamsin's interaction. They were cute and made a fun team.
Dyson and Lauren were OK together. I didn't hate it. It felt forced, but given the situation, it made sense that they would work together. Again, it was Dyson handing out the olive branch to bitchy frost princess Wonder Lauren, md.
Bo was crafty, confident and strong in this episode.
The crows were funny. I didn't see that comming.
Rainer/Wanderer was introduced well. Kyle Schmid looked hot.

The whole Bo/Rainer destiny thing can't be taken seriously at this point. We don't know what Trick & Tamsin knows or what happened on the train. Rainer may turn out to be like Warlow on True Blood. He is sweet at first then his true colors come out when he doesn't get his way.

Rainer must have done something awful for Trick to want to erase him from the past as well as the future. As devious as Blood King Trick was, he seems to do bad things to stop even worse things (in his mind) from happening.

I don't think Rainer is Bo's bio father. The timing is way off. Plus the show made a point of having Bo state to Lauren, Dyson and Trick that Rainer isn't her father.

Bo's riddle for Levi was dumb, but it was the writers' lame way of foreshadowing (with an anvil) that of one of Bo's current lovers may die. My money is on Dyson. The death will not be permanent, because Bo will go into Fae Hell to bring him back, which is how she will meet Levi again. It would be hard for TPTB to bring Lauren back since she is human. (not that Lost Girl pretends to write plots that make sense.)

Overall some of the jokes fell flat and some of the dialogue was clunkly and weird.

I did like this episode. Season four is still hands down better than Season three.
21. stacymd2
There was Dark and Light before Trick ended the Great Fae War. It has been stated many times that Aife was handed over to a Dark Fae Lord. I think it was stated during S2 that Trick was a Light Fae King. The Fae wars were between Dark and Light.

Tamsin is a Valkyrie who takes souls of fallen warriors. She must have been busy during the Fae Wars. It doesn't matter if the souls are Dark or Light.

I think Rainer was part of the rebellion group that was mentioned to have sprung up after Trick ended the War and created the Blood Laws/Una Mens. After losing his wife and Aife, Trick became corrupt and egomaniacal.

It is ridiculous that The Una Mens have suddenly disappeared, but I get the impression that the writers intended for us to assume that The Una Mens left town after Bo uncovered thier treachery with the Hell Shoes.

@TheGardner: Only the Church of Lauren thinks that Dyson was flirting with Lauren. (I've read this same comment on L-Chat & It's obvious that he was only being nice and complimenting her. Dyson has gone above and beyond this season and last in praising and extending an olive branch to Bo's ex-girlfriend. It is a genuine friendliness that Lauren has not done to Dyson. Lauren goes out of the way to take lame jabs and declare her supposed intellectual superiority. She only says Dyson is family in front of Bo. Score one for the doctor!

Dyson and Rainer's hair and beards look significantly better than Karen/Amber's hair in any light.

Kyle and Kris are both strikingly good looking men. (Bo sandwich anyone? Just me? Well, ok then.) Lost Girl is lucky to have them. I hope they have more scenes together. If Hale got into the action my TV would melt.

@Onceinabluemoon: The dress joke from last season was not vulgar. It was obviously a flirty joke between ex-lovers who are still close friends. Tamsin's "joke" to Bo when Dyson was about to dive off a building was vulgar--to me--since suicide is not funny. A friend of mine killed himself. I guess some people's view of vulgarity are different.

There were a lot of plot holes and questions introduced in 409, but Lost Girl is building up to the final. Let's hope they wrap up the season right.
22. nypinta
I have to wonder if someone doesn't get the job of writing the episode and they do with all the plot points and characters going from point A to point B to point C and all that fun and then someone comes along with a big red pen and inserts triangle talk as much as they possibly can. Because that was pretty much my only complaint about the episode. Until I started to ponder the jar thing. And the coincidence of the leviathan thing. And Tamsin and Kenzi being reckless... ok shush.

I do wonder why did Trick have to be so arrogant and evil? How did someone like Isabeau ever fall for a man like that? I hope there will be more to that particular story but it would have been just as easy to depict a conflicted Trick or a Trick that used his power reluctantly on behalf of his clan but was overcome with the desire for revenge, (the same way Aife had), and he let himself destroy Rainer from history and refused to let Tamsin take him in a moment of darkness. I mean, I think it would be more of a tragedy if he was a good man that made a horrible choice a long time ago and the price of that choice was finally coming due. And now that he has his memories back how much will he revert to the man he was? Because if he just removes his mistakes from his memory then he never really learned from them, has he?

I'm not sure how the Una Mens can still remember Rainer when no one else does. I still think it's their power to take anyone elses and turn it back onto them. So they might be the only fae immune to Trick's meddling. (Except how did they not recognize him? Unless the fae that chose to become the Una Mens lost their memories of their original lives and he was only in their presence as the Blood King before they swallowed the seeds...?)

I'm not sure who is going to die, but I don't think it's going to be permanent. Who could it be?

Lauren. I don't think so since they still needs her to execute her plan against the fae that she's obviously working on. And it would be too much to have Lauren end up in a fae underworld for Bo to be able to go get her. I might be mixing in a little Supernatural with my head canon but I think regular humans have their own afterlife. (Completely unsupported theory.)

Dyson. He loves sacrificing himself. But Bo just brought him back from the dead last season. Would they really have her do it twice?

Kenzi. Maybe. No reason why not. And we know Bo would do anything to get her back. But again my Supernatural head canon bleed through wonders if Kenzi would end up in a fae afterlife.

Tamsin. She's, for me, the obvious choice. She's the most sympathetic kill at this point and I can see Bo willing to go back into the underworld to bring Tamsin back. She kind of owes her, Tamsin's role in her abduction aside... Plus she's the most wrapped up in the major storyline.

Trick. He is her only family, and he's had a great storyline as the Blood King with all of his history that because it's so vast all the reveals about him also make sense. But his real purpose was exposition. He's Trickopedia. Tells them what fae they are up against when they were still doing fae monster of the week episodes. But they aren't doing that any more. And I don't know if they can really walk Trick back to just their information guru and barkeep. Plus, how do you go even bigger than what he's already done? (And now that I type all of this out for some reason I can see Bo taking over the Dal. If she can undo her alignment with the Dark, running a way station that is neutral ground for both Light and Dark is the perfect gig for her. Plus she'd know everyone that comes into the area, which is right up her nosey alley. And maybe Bo and Kenzi will finally get better digs. I mean, come on!! The hovel is a ridiculous place to live. Even if somehow it's still cooler than my place.)

Hale. Well, they did foreshadow something being wrong with him when the opera fae sang her death note. But he's seemed fine since. So it'd be weird to suddenly have some lingering effect of that note rear it's head and kill him.)

Vex. No.
23. nypinta
@stacymd2 I was thinking the conflict between Trick and Rainer was earlier in his life, but it could be this is supposed to be Trick post Blood Laws. And it would go a long way to explaining why he's so awful. He's lost his wife, his daughter. He was able to write laws that cowed the entire fae to his will and he's reveling in that power, letting it go to his head. Then he goes to far and erases his enemy and realizes what he's done and erases the memory of it from his own mind out of the horror of it. Then maybe goes all Kung Fu and wanders the Earth a bit himself in search for a true hero to start a new fae settlement with. It's just his hair was obviously fuller and darker so I assumed he was younger than he was when he wrote the Blood Laws. (They were written a thousand years ago, right? So maybe not.)
24. drusilla_doll
Okay, so I haven't watched the episode and often get timelines wrong, but what if Trick hates Rainer so much because he's responsible for his wife's - Isabeau - death? What if Rainer had originally wanted Isabeau to be his queen? And that crown wasn't made for Bo but for her grandmother? But now perhaps Rainer wants his own revenge and getting Bo to side with him against Trick is part of this plan? Maybe gaining Bo's 'love' by any means necessary is just another way to stick it to the Blood King? I can imagine that kind of scenario explaining how nasty/ruthless Trick was in his flashback (and in dealing with the whole situation in the present). I do think we are going to see Bo turn against Trick in a big way, and he will look guilty of some bad things, but we won't have all of the pieces (the whole context) until nearer the end.

At least I would find that a fairly plausible twist. Because it seems silly to have everyone - including the UM - freaking out about this evil, manipulative Rainer guy coming back only to show he's actually this good, misunderstood puppy who really is Bo's awesome destiny.
25. stacymd2
@nypinta: There is much more to the Trick/Rainer story, which is why I'm not put off by the huge plot holes right now. If the season ends with chucks of the timeline and plot not adding up then I'll be pissed.

The show made a point to have Trick state to the Una Mens when he was called in that the Blood King became corrupt after he wrote the Laws. This is why I think the Rainer thing happened after the Aife's betrayal/Dark Lord punishment/Blood Laws/Una Mens things.

I don't think Rainer will be a "good" guy or if he was, then he may not be anymore. Warlow saved Sooki (True Blood) when her parents tried to kill her as a child. He still wasn't a good Fairy Vampire.

In her post interview EA made it seem that Kyle S. is now a member of the cast. If that is the case then Rainer may be a good guy after all. At this point we don't know.

I feel strongly that Rainer is NOT Bo's bio daddy. TPTB would be crazy to miss the opportunity to show a hot Bo and Rainer sex scene.
26. nypinta
What if Rainer works for Bo's father? In a Hephestus kind of way, making things. That might be why he had the crown we saw in her flash back. He made it for Bo because Bo's father told him too. But like Ianka, Bo promised Rainer she'd come back to help him escape. Or something. Ugh. I don't know. I can't fathom what the hell they are going to do next.

But I do like the idea that maybe Bo's grandmother was the original target and shifted the fixation to Bo. Because Isabeau seemed pretty virtuous and kind even though she was a succubus. Seems Aife takes after Trick while Bo takes after her. And for giggles I just looked up the photos of the leviathan and Isabeau and part of me thinks it's possible for the show to say that Levi is Isabeau, only looking older because of how long she's been in the underwold. And she could have been talking about herself when Bo first showed up, with the eyes both brown and blue.

Or she's someone of a similar nature to Bo that the Wanderer might have considered as his mate but I suspect that maybe the Una Mens were the ones that kept her from recieving the mark.

I don't think Rainer is her father either. I think her father is the horse/fire breathing thing in the picture and Rainer the Defiant, lately The Wanderer is someone else completely. Aw. Too bad Aife isn't around to say one way or the other, huh.
Carmen Pinzon
27. bungluna
I just keep getting more confused. I don't see how they are going to solve all the different story lines they have going:

1. WonderLauren and her plot against the Morrigan?
2. Who the hell is Bo's father?!
3. Where in the fae world is Aife?
4. Where's the seed that could turn someone into an Una Mens?
5. Who is going to take over as new Ash?
6. Did Wonder Lauren get Vex's hand fixed?
7. Is Rainer the new Ryan?

I read a fantasy series where the more people used their powers, the more they shrank, until they disappeared. It would have been neat if they had used something like this with Trick, or any other devise that showed plainly the consequences of using great power.

The Una Mens seemed to recall Rainer when they saw his name in the book of Kings (or some such). So what?

It still feels like a hot mess to me, but I'm hanging in there until the end of the season. Whoever said this show desperately needs a bible and a continuity keeper, you were so right!
Dine Stueg
28. Nocturne
Hm... I don't think the answers regarding Aife and Ash will be adressed this season. Vexs hand probably is attached again and will never be mentioned again.

I guess that is the problem. They're trying to be ambitious and want to make a difficult, epic show, but they create so many storylines and three main bads for only 13 episodes, that they don't resolve one storyline properly. They need to cut down on the storylines, have one main bad that is developed, have less focus on the love triangle and have a few major characters arcs that are continued in the episodes. They definitely need a continuity keeper!

In season 1 there was such a gap between Dark and Light and them not working together. Now they are just working together every episode (Dyson/Lauren, Bo with Dyson, Tamsin with Kenzi) and nobody cares, it has no consequences at all. It is weird, especially now there are Una Mens who were portrayed as rigid rule keepers.

I've been thinking about what bugged me so much about Kenzi/Tamsin storyline this episode (except for the lame jokes a five year old can make). It was sloppy writing. Both Kenzi and Tamsin regressed. In groundhog Fae Tamsin was more like an adult (but apparently only for the reason so it wouldn't be weird if she and Bo kissed) and now she was more like a child again. Kenzi also seemed to be very immature, more than she was in season 1.

There hardly was a plan and all their successes were based on luck:
-Kenzi and Tamsin go find information in Tricks lair.
-Kenzi asks Tamsin if she has found something, she mentions a book with blank pages that is useless. Ofcourse that is what they're going to use now (plot convenience number 1)
-Kenzi decides to find Tricks blood, because they 'might' be able to do something with that. (dumb plan number 1)
-Trick is traditional, so they know for sure he hides his blood in the same place where they already are (plot convenience number 2)
-Tamsin walks and a squeaky sound is heard, it's the place where they have to look (plot convenience number 3)
-It's a special box, they are 100% sure the blood is in there and Tamsin apparently knows the whole story about the box (plot convenience number 4)
-They know it's dangerous and keep opening it, while they don't even know what they want to do with the blood and the book (dumb plan number 2)
-Tamsin accidently touching the blood and remembering a memory (plot convenience number 5)

It could have been so much better. What if Kenzi was so deeply terrified that Bo would never come back again, she had the plan in advance to write in Tricks blood. She would find the book and the blood with Tamsin, then instead of fingerpainting she would write something like: 'Bo and Kenzi will be together forever' or 'Bo will never leave Kenzi again' which of course is what Kenzi wants, but it would also have a nasty downside to it (since that happens with everything that is written with the Blood Kings blood). Then we had a continuity of the storyline Bo/Kenzi and Kenzi feeling alone. They even could have continued with some Tamsin drama, because she would feel left out again. It would have been a nice set up to explore their relationships further. Tamsin accidently touching the blood when Kenzi was writing, still could have happened and triggered her memory. Sigh, I wished they had just more focus again on the depth of characters and their relationships in Lost girl.

The storyline in the episode just seemed very superficial and based on conveniences. It was only a filler to give Tamsin a memory back...

I hope next week is better, bring on the mermaids!
29. Darthfaeder
@Nocturne I say forget the mermaids. How about bringing on Season 5
because this season 4 stinks! Bad writing bad everything blah!
30. nypinta
Someone above asked why Bo had to be Dark to get back on the train. I don't think that was why she went Dark. She chose Dark on purpose knowing she would never do that and it would spur her on to get back on the train to find out why. Kind of like in Warehouse 13 Pete and Mika knew they were going to lose their memories of the last 24 hours and needed to leave themselves a clue that something was wrong and find out what they did in that 24 hours so they quickly took off their clothes and hopped into a bed so that when they woke up without their memories they would know something was wrong because they would NEVER sleep together. So somehow Bo knew, as was mentioned by Ianka earlier, that she was going to lose her memories when she left the train, so she sent herself clues so she'd go back for him (although what is so special about her arrival this time I still don't understand).

Also, now that it's been suggested that maybe the crown was really meant for Bo's grandmother I can't help thinking that maybe she'll end up being the third big bad. We assume it's going to be Trick because he was such a meanie back in the day, but I wonder if that's to throw us off and be surprised when his deceased wife returns and isn't happy with him.
34. nypinta
I can't get past in that interview the author naming Kris as Kris and KC Collins as Casey. I mean.. come on. FFS.

And he says that he's banished for leading a rebellion against the dark. Okaaaaay. So maybe Trick was Dark at one time and rewrote himself as Light.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
35. Kiersten
Yeah, the Chris and Casey made me plotz. I mean, COME ON
Dine Stueg
36. Nocturne
@Darthfaeder. Hang in there! Only a few episodes left, so they have to step up their game... I hope. Linda Hamilton will return, so I think there will be a serious storyline for Tamsin there.

I'll keep on watching, because of Kenzi/Hale. First, I watched because of Bo/Kenzi friendship, but it is hardly ever seen again. Tamsin helped me get through season 3, but I'm starting to miss her snarky adult comments now. Although I liked seeing her growing up, I think she should have been more mature by now. To be honest, if Kenzi or Hale is permantly dead at the end of this season, then I don't know if I want to continue.

Grr....Where's the promo when you're waiting for it...
Carmen Pinzon
37. bungluna
It sound like Rainer is NOT coming back next season, if Kyle is doing two movies and then looking for another tv show.
38. nypinta
Yeah, but one of those movies has already been filmed. And they haven't even started anything for Season 5 so who knows how much time he has to do the second movie.
39. nypinta
Putting this here so as to not spoil anyone watching this season for the first time, but I was reading the recap and got to the part where Aife gets her memory back while standing next to Trick and it didn't make much sense at the time that she would go from zero to rage just from having her memories back since a)Trick wiped away her crazy at the end of S1 but b) she seemed a little nuts at Tafts yet c) in the episode it's clear she recalls everything that happened at Taft's so it can't be that, so then what is it? She wasn't around Bo enough for the memories of time they spent together having that kind of a reaction. However, now, it seems that when their memories were restored Aife must have realized that The Wanderer was the one who had done it and how had taken Bo and she knows why and she is not happy about it because she must know something about what Trick did and why The Wanderer wants Bo having to do with it. So she knows why The Wanderer is after Bo and I have to wonder if although Trick might not have known the full extent of his involvement in the scenario that he knew enough that he actually killed Aife so that Bo would never find out. It's a horrible thought, but it just popped into my head. That he realized Aife knew what he had done and he got rid of her so that know one else would ever find out. But since we've not seen a body and he only had one injury when they see him next the writers gave them wiggle room to have her come back at a later date.
40. stacymd2
@Kiersten: Thanks for the links. Kyle's interview was very interesting.

@bungluna: I read somewhere that KHR and EV are in the same movie with Kyle that filmed in Malta. So, unless TPTB killed Rainer then Kyle could still come back for Season 5. (if LG gets a season 5) Plus Lost Girl may not begin filming S5 until summer as they did last year. There is plenty of time.

@nypinta: I don't think Aife is dead nor do I think Trick killed her. I can't see him killing her after what she went through after being turned over to the Dark Lord. Trick regrets many things and turning over Aife may be his biggest. I got the impression that Trick imprisoned Aife or, while defending himself, he attacked her and she ran away.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
41. Kiersten
@stacymd2 - all three did indeed film a miniseries in Malta for month from Nov-Dec called Saul.

I too thought the tone of the interview made it sound as though Kyle, like RS before him, was now a member of the cast going forward and not just a guest star with several episodes this season. I hope not; the last thing Bo needs is another lover to much things up. I'd much prefer him to be another Ryan (miss you, Ryan!) here for a few eps with a short, impactful storyline. Guess we'll see soon enough
42. stacymd2
@Kiersten: I don't want Rainer to be Bo's destiny. (so dumb) Bo doesn't need another true love interest. It would be great if Rainer turned out to be like Ryan--an intense, hot fling. Both Dyson and Bo need to swim out of the Bermuda Triangle for a few episodes. I didn't love Ciara when she was on, but now I would love it if Lost Girl put Dyson temporarily with someone else if just to not hear, "I love you...all, so much;" the answer is, "I don't know;" and "I love Bo, but she has a girlfriend." The triangle is a boulder tied around Lost Girl's neck.

Tamsin was a breath of fresh air in Season 3. Rainer could be the same in Season 4 and/or 5.

Bo & Dyson have reconnected this season (finally!), but it means little if Bo's many times ex-girlfriend is still somehow an option. If Rainer is sticking around, then another female should get under Dyson's shirt.

I do want Rainer to be a recurring "Big Bad"--one that isn't a cartoonish joke like Evony. Rainer has the potential to be a powerful villain with deep connections to the main characters.

Ok, very wild spec: What if Rainer is Trick's son? I feel whatever Rainer did to Trick had to be personal. Plus, the incest thing is still hanging around the show like a bad fart.
43. veronicasawyer
Greetings all,
been reading this forum for a bit and like that it's pretty positive, insightful and entertaining ...great job Kiersten!
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else was getting a Luke Skywalker/Princess Leia vibe from the Rainer/Bo thing -
with Darth Vader/The Big Bad To Be Named Later as dad?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
44. Kiersten
Hi @Veronicasawyer and Welcome! Thanks for your kind words and for adding your voice to the discussion.

That's a interesting twist; we're all assuming Bo means "He's my destiny" as a lover at that is the Bo's usual default with new peopele, but what if it is more of a sibling thing between them? People "move heaven and earth" for their brothers and or sisters when needed. Perhaps Rainer is the antithesis to Bo, the other child, the dark example of what she could become if she lets herself lose control. Interesting...
Susan White
45. whiskeywhite
Welcome @veronicasawyer!

And thanks for the links, Kiersten. Love links, as I've said before. I went back to read the link you gave us to the review of "Groundhog Fae" on Mehlsbells and from there found a really interesting follow-up reflection she posted entitled "Lost Girl, Social Media, and the Nature of Bias". "The key to good discussions about television," she says is "Well-reasoned discussion in spaces built for it, interesting POVs, and the love and patience to develop both of them." The comments are also extremely informative. I particularly liked her disucssion of "bias", which I have to address with students all the time as they encounter feminist (and anti-racist) writing.
Carmen Pinzon
46. bungluna
@veronicasawyer- that's a very interesting supposition.

What if the Wanderer was the dark King's son, whom Trick vanished from this plain in revenge for having to give up his own rebellious daughter. So dK waits millenia until he manages to get Aeife preggers and produces a sister for his Lost Son, she who is destined to set him free. In the mean time, all Trick's bad deed are coming home to roost.
Great possibilities for season 5!
Suzanne Metaxas
47. SuzyM
Just a thought here. With all this speculation about Rainer it occured to me that he might have been Aoife's boyfriend. Remember she also led a rebellion against the Dark and that is why Trick gave her up for trial. Maybe Rainer was the one who convinced Aoife to join the rebellion and that is why Trick hates him so. Trick blames him for what he had to do. :) Like I said, just a thought :)
48. nypinta
That's a great thought, Suzy.

It's the timeline that concerns me. It seems they went out of their way to make Trick look younger, implying that this all happened before the scenes with Isabeau just before he wrote the Blood Laws. But what the costuming department does and what it actually means don't necessarily match up. We still don't know why Tamsin looked like she was wearing ancient amor like stuff in her flashback story when she was hired to find Bo. Was it because it happened hundreds of years ago? Are they doing it to be purposely vauge or is it one hand not knowing what the other is doing.
The thing is what we know do we actually know? Or are we assuming it just because the characters are? All we now know for a fact is Trick vanished Rainer from history and cursed him to wander the earth, The Wanderer is Rainer, The Wanderer hired Tamsin, (right? She said it was him, right?). Him being Bo's father seems to be the sticking point if it was ever established as fact or we, like Bo, just assumed. But Aife spoke about him as if he was extremely powerful. So... maybe Rainer's father took revenge on Trick by taking Aife and using her to create Bo just to free his son. That'd be pretty epic revenge. But Trick's punishment for Rainer was pretty epic too. Gah! Just tell us already, show!!!!
Suzanne Metaxas
49. SuzyM
I'm confused because Tamsin said he was Bo's father. This really gums up the train of thought. :( though it wouldn't be the first time the writers screwed up and lost the chain of continuity.
Susan White
50. whiskeywhite
Continuing on with links, here's EA's take on "Destiny's Child":

In it we learn that The Wanderer is trying to glue the disintegrating train back together with the welding. I was wondering what that was about, although I thought the iron crown had something to do with it.

She also comments: "We just really wanted a mythical figure associated with the underground. The Leviathan is traditionally associated with a big body of water, so I like that we put her in an almost desert." Huh? So you take a great whale mythical character and make it a beautiful, spooky underground woman. I say again, Huh? I'm probably being too literal, as always. Is there any sense to this, mythology experts?
Suzanne Metaxas
51. SuzyM
She also comments: "We just really wanted a mythical figure associated with the underground. The Leviathan is traditionally associated with a big body of water, so I like that we put her in an almost desert." Huh? So you take a great whale mythical character and make it a beautiful, spooky underground woman. I say again, Huh? I'm probably being too literal, as always. Is there any sense to this, mythology experts?
I think if they can't find a mythical creature they need they just make one up using a recognizable name. If you check out the ones they used in the past not all off them were portayed as they were written. The Garuda and the Naga are two that come to mind :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
52. Kiersten
Here's a link to new promo pics for 4.10

Looks like we'll get some flashback scenes to when Bo first arrived on the train...oh, and Dyson is in the doc's flat.

The other guy is the celebrity director who did this episode, famous for music videos if I remember correctly.
Dine Stueg
53. Nocturne
Thanks for the link for promo pics! They reveal... well, almost nothing lol. At least we will get more info about what happened on the train.

So if I understand correctly all the pictures with the guy with the earphones aren't real picture shots of the episode, they're about the famous guy directing.

Rainer might play piano and the woman is near a swimming pool. Maybe she's a mermaid who prefers warm swimming pool water over the cold sea ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
54. Kiersten
Yup, the guy with the headphones is the director. Any pics that feature him are behind the scenes shots.

I think Bo is going to shut everyone out & go off with Rainer. That will leave them to flashback to what happened when Bo first got on the train. By the look of those promo shots, it appears Bo is in the same outfit she wore in S3E13. Meanwhile, Kenzi, Dyson, and Doctor Lauren will go investigate the corporation with the mermaids.
55. TheUberFan
I'm currently considering the possibility that Rainer is A wanderer but not "THE WANDERER."

The crows said their former employer was decaying.

SO.... Current theory...

THE Wanderer has Rainer in his employ to keep the train working and do his bidding with Bo...and Rainer is a okay with it because he hates Trick.

Which suggests then that Bo's dad is still out there Wandering. Of course, Tamsin could confirm or deny this theory since she seemed to have met him when she was hired who knows how many centuries/millennia of course, they have to spirit Tamsin away for awhile, otherwise she might accidentally move the story forward.
Carmen Pinzon
56. bungluna
I was just thinking that Tamsin was hired from valkirie central in another dimension (Valhala, perhaps?) and that's why she was wearing a more traditional uniform. This would account for both the armor and how did she meet with the Wanderer, who's supposed to be banished from our dimension.
57. nypinta
"The crows said that their former employer was decaying."

@UberFaenatic That is true! And the train was falling apart. What if The Wanderer manifests itself as the train? And Rainer was working to help him stay together? As a good soon to be son in law would? Because it seemed as if the train itself was alive. Maybe he used to appear as a multi headed fire breathing horse dragon thing, but now looks like a train and that was why Trick thought the picture was important last season? Or that was just an image of what The Wanderer rode around on and it is now the train and Rainer is The Wanderer and the writers have just lost their freakin' minds and forgot what they actually had characters say about the character once they got Kyle Schmidt to play the role and they were like, 'Whoa nelly! He's a hottie so... sexy succubus time! Oh wait. Crap. We said he was her dad... *erase erase erase hand wave* PRESTO! He's not her Dad. He's her Destiny!'
58. TheUberFan
They have everything they said last season and this season about how evil THE Wanderer is that they'd have to completely blank out.

Not that I don't think they're above that at this point. lol

But there's too many powerful figures who are terrified of the big W for it to be a line they can chuck away.

And they showed that horse picture again in Destiny's Child so who knows, they might actually pick up on that and follow through. But probably not.

Yes, I'm bitter.
59. stacymd2
What is most annoying, to me, when I really think about it is the train. The steam engine train is about 200 years old. Older wooden rail roads that people pulled horse drawn wagons on are about 400 years old. How could the Wanderer be stuck on a modern train for 1000+ years? Why would Lost Girl use a modern, 1950s era, steam engine train as opposed to a wooden, Viking style ship? In the link with Kyle Schmid's interview, he said:

"When Rainer is killed, he becomes the Wanderer and he's sentenced by the Blood King to dirve a train that carries souls to and from Valhalla. He's spent thousands of years driving this train."

That just doesn't make sense. There were no trains thousands of years ago.
Suzanne Metaxas
60. SuzyM
Good point about the train Stacy! Another plot fail by the writers :(
61. nypinta
I think the train is a thing that can change. I don't think it was always a train. On the river Styx, people were ferried across to the land of the dead. There are a lot of modes of transportation in stories about souls being moved from life to death. But it's clear something is happening to the train and it's falling apart. And it seems that it's stuck as a steam engine, it hasn't upgraded. (Or course, that seems to be a thing with supernatural worlds parallel to the mudane world. Like Harry Potter. It's like magical creatures loath clean lines and modern comforts.
Clio called it a Death Train. What if it's Death's Train? What if Bo's father IS Death and he IS the train? And Rainer, being dead when we saw him in the flashback was brought back by Death, because Aife did say he could do that. Why he would want Rainer with his own daughter, who knows. Actually, I have no idea what's going to happen. I just hope to god it makes sense. They had enough time to really think it through so that it should.
62. nypinta
I think the train is a thing that can change. I don't think it was always a train. On the river Styx, people were ferried across to the land of the dead. There are a lot of modes of transportation in stories about souls being moved from life to death. But it's clear something is happening to the train and it's falling apart. And it seems that it's stuck as a steam engine, it hasn't upgraded. (Or course, that seems to be a thing with supernatural worlds parallel to the mudane world. Like Harry Potter. It's like magical creatures loath clean lines and modern comforts.
Clio called it a Death Train. What if it's Death's Train? What if Bo's father IS Death and he IS the train? And Rainer, being dead when we saw him in the flashback was brought back by Death, because Aife did say he could do that. Why he would want Rainer with his own daughter, who knows. Actually, I have no idea what's going to happen. I just hope to god it makes sense. They had enough time to really think it through so that it should.
Susan White
63. whiskeywhite
Fascinating discussion of the train, folks. Where would I be without your imagination? Laugh-out-loud award of the day goes to @UberFaenatic for "they have to spirit Tamsin away for awhile, otherwise she might accidentally move the story forward." I only bestow these awards to people who actually make me laugh out loud.

As I said previously, I give up. Que sera sera. (But I still enjoy reading what you think might happen).
64. TheUberFan
A stray thought occurred to me.

Trick was asked who he loved the most and he said Ysabeau of course. But as the fae clacked her fingers and forced the truth from him, he revealed he loved himself the most.

So...what if what's made Bo darker and more selfish has also brought out that same trait in herself? Meaning, in all her pleading about who she loves...just as Trick pled he loved Ysabeau the most, at the end of the day what if she loves herself the most?

And so...when told by Levi that she'd see Bo soon because someone Bo loved very much was going to die....what if she was talking about Bo herself?

I don't think this is the case btw. It was just a random thought. lol
Nadine Robb
65. cmm
Not sure if this has been posted here yet. But for those who want to see the preview for the next episode here it is:
Kiersten Hallie Krum
66. Kiersten
Here's the promo for Sunday's episode. Looks like Bo is banging Rainer while Dyson, DL, and Kenzi are off with the mermaids case, as expected.

Also, the transcript of the standard mid-season press conference call with Kris and with him for the first time is Zoie & producer Vanessa. In past 3 seasons, it's been the three leads, Anna, Kris and Ksenia, on these mid-season press cattle conf calls. Glad to see them branching out this year for more perspectives regardless of the reason. The Kris and Zoie Show is a hoot as per usual.

Also, the folks for the new show Bitten have their call transcript in this link too.
Suzanne Metaxas
67. SuzyM
Shite! This preview isn't giving me warm and fuzzy feelings! Capture her friends! Could be one of them the Leviathan was talking about :( Maybe the UnaMens kills one of them before Bo can stop them!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
68. Kiersten
I should add that Anna and Ksenia both have been doing mid-season interviews solo, so they're out there, they just split the three of them up for them this season
69. nypinta
Looks like Bo has completely swalloed the cool aid regarding Rainer. So Dyson and Lauren are going to help Kenzi with her case...? And it doesn't look like there is any Tamsin? But it seems that Bo bringing Rainer back has severly upset the Una Mens. This should be interesting. Bo's powers didn't work on them, but what about Rainer? They better be afraid of him for a reason. Maybe it takes both of them to take out the Una Mens and then Tamsin takes out Rainer. (I think it'll be Tamsin who takes him out since she didn't take his soul when she should have years ago.) And then Bo has to go to the underworld to get her with the Helskor shoes. And then the third big bad will be revealed. Trick? Or the blue chick from the Underworld? Or Lauren's brother? Or Lauren? Hmm. In three episodes. Yeah... this won't be rushed AT ALL.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
70. Kiersten
Yeah, so much for not cramming it all into the last few eps. I hate that DL's relationship with The Morrigan and position with The Dark was built up so high and now completely neglected. We couldve dumped the whole Yule episode, fun as in was in many ways, for more forward story movement. How much you wanna bet that scene with Rainer and Bo confronting the Una Mens is the cliffhanger ending to the episode, which means the rest will be filler of Bo arguing with Trick about Rainer, banging Rainer, and flashing back to how she met Rainer while Keniz, Dyson, and DL are off in ultimately unimportant, just to give them something to do in the meanwhile, Fae of the Week adventure?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
71. Kiersten
The one thing we all know that Bo absolutely, positively, 100% did not need? Another lover.

The one thing we've conclusively gotten from this fcuking, drawn-out, still inconclusive train business? Another lover for Bo.

*eye roll*
72. TheUberFan

I'm just at an absolute loss right now.

They built up The Wanderer as Bo's father last season...and now...I just don't know what they are doing.

There's a difference between being confused but excited and confused and aggitated.

If I were just a general audience viewer and was not invested in Kenzi and Tamsin like I am, I would have honestly given up ages ago.

And as a Tamsin fan, I sure hope they make up for her being pretty much a glorified extra this season by giving her something meaty to do in the last few episodes.

Kiersten Hallie Krum
73. Kiersten
In that transcript of the press conference call, Producer Vanessa essentially says we're not going to see Bo's father in this season either. Maybe a glimpse in the finale, but she bascially says, nope, not this season either. Psyche!
74. TheUberFan
It can be fun to theorize what they're planning to do...but only if they don't change the rules on us mid stream.

At that point, it becomes annoying. Well for me at least. Because I can't follow them if they're rewriting the facts to fit a new fun twist they've decided to add.

So..whatever I guess.

Another thought. If they pull a multi-whammy cliffhanger again...I may have to jump off that cliff Tamsin and Dyson took a dive over. Just sayin'.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
75. Kiersten
I have a faint, desperate hope that the corporation that is cutting off the mermaids' tails (what else could it be?) brings on the reval of DL's brother, but it's a Hail Mary hope at best
Nadine Robb
76. cmm
I think we are all overanalyzing the morrigan scene with DL. I think in that scene she just took her dna for insurance, not for any other sinster purpose. Her think is basically, I've been screwed by the fae once, i'm a doctor and if they try again I will use my knowledge to hurt them. I will gladly eat my words though if they make it some sort of plan to bring down the dark fae and Trick was in on it though. For them to do that would be really lame considering they dropped the whole plot.

As for the Bo/Rainer situation. I still believe she's under his control. I think the scene where she's on the train saying no, no, and he marks her is where he exerts his control. Her being all gung ho over him and getting off the train is all part of his plan. In my opinion Bo does not love him at all. Not saying that some of her actions aren't her own, I'm just saying that I think Rainers mark amplifies all her virtuous nature and makes her run head first into things before thinks and it ends up hurting her and the people around her.

I belive that the future spoiler out there where it says she begins to question her feeling for someone she loves is her realizing that something is not quite right about Rainer. I'm still trying to figure out the Trick angle though. The reveal in this episode seems to make him look like a mean, narcassitic ruler. I wonder what he did to himself to prevent himself from remembering.
77. TheUberFan
Well good luck with that, @Kiersten. That would be one possible tie in to one of the new loose ends created this season...when they haven't even tied up the ones from last season.

I'm just amazed as to what they've done so far; but rather than saying WOW!!!!!!! it's more :( They've spent an insane amount of time pushing the triangle that isn't...and now they're bringing in a new love interest? Really? Then they tease with Bo/Tamsin and then drop it the next episode so she can wax on about her non-existent dilemma betwixt Dyson and Lauren. Only to end up with Rainer.

I just. I'm about done. lol When I'm more angry and frustrated than I am excited and tuned in, that's a bad thing.

I'm hanging on by a thread because I care about Kenzi and I care about Tamsin. But that will only keep me holding on for only so long. And if they keep treating Tamsin like an extra, I might just walk away for good and focus on a new show or something.
Nadine Robb
78. cmm

"In that transcript of the press conference call, Producer Vanessa
essentially says we're not going to see Bo's father in this season
either. Maybe a glimpse in the finale, but she bascially says, nope, not
this season either. Psyche!"

What a dissapointment. I thought for sure this season was going to be about her father. In fact I was sure they promised us that. It almost seems like this show is going the way of the mentalist where they drag out the reveal of the shows main villian, Red John.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
79. Kiersten
@cmm I agree that the "one who she loves" gambit is most likely about Rainer, but I disagree about DL's intentions toward The Morrigan. Her raising her glass and saying "It begins" is too pointed to be just an acknowledgement that she's just beginning her tenure with The Dark and not referencing a more specfic situation. She could've taken insurance DNA from Evony's beer bottle to be referenced later when she used it as one of the show's many oh-didn't-we-tell-you?-it-happened-off-screen moments. Instead they made a big deal about her sealing her lips and kissing Evony in order to get the DNA and preserve it. And I still don't think Trick's voice over the speaker's whe DL and Crystal were being held captive was a red herring. His voice is too recognizable not to have be used deliberately. I do think it's all gonna be crammed into the last few eps again.

That said, agree that part of Bo's reaction to Rainer is something he's done to her. She's still very puzzled, but she responds to him (what little we've seen) the same way she responds to Doctor Lauren, with that ethereal, loopy expression and tone of voice that makes it clear she's got him (and DL in her turn) up on some unrealistic pedestal that affect her perception of who they really are and what her relationship with them each in turn is really like.

So yeah, there's definitely something more that Rainer is doing to Bo to effect her response to him.
80. TheUberFan
I wonder what he did to himself to prevent himself from remembering.
@cmm....The Showtime blog for this episode seemed to suggest strongly that Trick was in fact Dark Fae, which was why Tamsin had to answer to him.

If he did this to himself, which it looks like he did, then he wrote himself forgetting what he did to Rainer and wrote himself to be light fae...which is interesting because we know from Season 2 that he is from the light fae Clan Finarvin, one of the four founding noble families of the light.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
81. Kiersten
From the transcript:

Robin Burks: I also have a question for Vanessa from Twitter. Are we going to get more information about Bo's father this season?

Vanessa Piazza: You are. I mean the story line will continue. I can't say much more than that. But yes, the story line will continue. I can't say whether or not it will resolve itself, whether you'll meet him, whether you won't, whether he exists, but it is, you know, a subject I guess of the season. But that's about all I can say.
82. TheUberFan
@cmm...They said their were three big bads this season. The Una Mens, The Wanderer and a third unknown.

So I have no idea what they're doing now. lol
83. TheUberFan
@Kiersten...I have one response to that:

"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue."
Kiersten Hallie Krum
84. Kiersten
Keep in mind, even though this is the regular mid-season press conf call that's happened every season after or around episode 9, they were expressly speaking with press about the American run of the show, not on the Canadian schedule, so they were actively avoiding talking about specifics, which means they couldnt really say much of anything (which also makes me wonder if they'll do another mid-season call after E9 airs in the U.S.)

But still...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
85. Kiersten
When I'm more angry and frustrated than I am excited and tuned in, that's a bad thing.
This was me in practically every single episode of season three.

I think anyone holding out hope for Tamsin (or Rainer or Ryan or...) to be a main character who has equal weight to Dyson and Doctor Lauren either in screen time or in Bo's romantic life is regrettably bound to be disappointed.
86. TheUberFan
Yeah that's the thing though. It seemed last season that they were setting Tamsin up for more...and then we've gotten her like in one or two episodes out of nine as an adult.

So like I said...I just don't know what to think anymore. And I'm just exhausted by the triangle. It's not even fun to gripe about it anymore. I don't think she loves Dyson because she wouldn't be willing to drop him on his head the first second Lauren comes into view. And I don't think she loves Lauren because her perspective of her is skewed and based more on idealism than on the actual facts of their relationship.

That she can't pick between the two means something, I think. For now at least, it's neither. Now I suppose something could change in that...but I'm not seeing it. And if Rainer is The Wanderer, then the show has lied to us about him being her father and again...I just don't know how to root for this to continue on. It's okay to make things messy if you intend to clean it up...but I just see it getting messier and messier.
Nadine Robb
87. cmm

I dont' think Trick was dark fae because Tamsin had to answer him. I think he was still light fae, just really self centred. But, I admit your point about Trick rewriting himself as light fae interesting. However, I don't think he was a dark fae king because Aoife was given to the dark fae king by Trick. So would mean there was more than one dark fae king? As for the third big bad I think that's Rainer if rainer is not the wanderer. Or could it be Aoife? Sorry If this sounds messed up, i'm just so confused lol!
88. TheUberFan
Oh and pre-season 3, the producers were hinting that Tamsin was being set up to be a new interest for Bo. So I'm not just kidding myself here.
89. TheUberFan

Well the thing is...I think what they're saying was that during the Fae least for a portion of it... he was dark. Tamsin was beholden to him because he was a dark fae ruler. And then he used his blood to write Rainer out of history. And at some point, he wrote himself to forget and made himself light.

We know he was light when he wrote the blood laws...and when he was married to Ysabeau...and that would mean, theoretically, when he turned Aife over to the dark king.

But that's all I have right now.

Tamsin dreamt/remembered more before Kenzi woke her and she was in a panic about not trusting Trick so who knows what she remembered after what we saw.

We know her lifecycles were coming to an end back during the Fae Wars, which is well over 1000 years ago and that she traded Rainer's soul for regeneration of her life cycles. But after that...did Trick trick her? Give her her lifecyles back but did not allow her to remember the lessons she needed to know in the next life so that she could not find redemption?

Is she still damned after her last life ends?
Nadine Robb
90. cmm
The writers need to clarify a lot of these plot points. To answer your question I do believe Tasmin will be damned, her redemption would of been her doing her job and taking Rainer back to the afterlife. That being said that though, we don't know what Rainer did to warrant Tricks hate. All we know is that he didn't follow him.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
91. Kiersten
@Uberfaenatic - I never read Tamsin's arc in S3 as being set up for more in S4 and not just b/c of my desire to have Bo & Dyson together. I've always thought it clear that Tamsin played her arc out in S3. It was always about the fact that she was supposed to locate and betray Bo to The Wanderer, but as she partnered with Dyson and got to know Bo (and part of that was seeing Bo through Dyson's perspective) she grew more and more conflicted over turning over this woman, (whom we now know she never believed could actually exist), who she had, over the course of S3, come to admire and care about. Her arc played out when she could not kill Bo, given the opportunity at Taft's lab, and instead finally broke down and allowed Bo to take her in as part of Bo's extended faemily.

The decision to add her to S4 was made late in the run of S3 so I think she was meant to die in the truck crash and not resurrect (and Dyson only meant to survive b/c he shifted before truck go boom.) She was originallyl meant to be S3's Ryan, but b/c everyone loved RS so much and she clicked so well with the cast and (most) of the fans, Firestone added her to S4. But now they had to find a storyline for her b/c they just dumped her off a cliff, so we got the resurrection storyline b/c the initial 1st third of S4 story arc was already set up around forgetting, remembering, finding, and retrieving Bo. Which is one of the reasons why she's been so scarce in S4 because Tamsin's impact in S4 is mostly about what she can bring in relation to her knowledge of The Wanderer and that meant first getting to the point where Trick remembers what he went to great pains to forget. I don't think she's out for good at all, but I do think her spit spot appearances (which actually track pretty close to what she did in S3 I think) are do to her addition to S4 being an impulse that had to be accomodated post-facto in the season's storylines.

But that's just my take, so it's probably wrong. Except for playing out her story arc in S3 because that are definitely has a start and end point.

@cmm - As a rule, I don't believe anything of merit that is talked about on the Showcase blog.

I don't think Trick was once Dark Fae at all. For a while now, the show has been working on the idea that being Light Fae doesn't automatically mean everyone is good and loverly, that many Light Fae are right proper jackholes. Trick can be Light Fae and still be a power-mad despot who believes he's doing the wrong thing for the right reasons or the "greater good". This seems to be what drove him to wipe Rainer from memory and enslave him on the Death Train, which couldve been part of the Fae War that went on for so long and caused so much overall harm. Once Trick realized the depths to which he'd sunk, culminated by his wife's death, he made amends by sacrificing his daughter Aoife to the Dark King (who was not necessarily The Morrigan) to pay for her own crimes (something he later refused to do with Dyson, his surrogate son) and thus end the Great Fae War. After this, Trick chose a new path, which later led him to locate Dyson and have him stand as Trick's second in the New World community they've since built, allbeit on old rules, until Bo came along and properly shook everything up.

But again, most of what I come up with turns out to be completely wrong
Kiersten Hallie Krum
92. Kiersten
The only thing I remember about the set up for Tamsin was that she was bi-sexual and was going to shake up Bo's world. Which she did.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
93. Kiersten
Tamsin was trying to retrieve Rainer's soul b/c she was a Valykyrie, but I dont think she was beholden to Trick. I think she was weak and desperate and couldnt fight him and Trick used her weakness and guilt over past misdeedsd to manipulate her needs to get what he wanted, but I don't remember her being beholden to him. He may have hired her, but given his despotic tendencies at that point, being Light Fae wouldnt have stopped Trick from hiring the Dark Fae assassin
94. TheUberFan
I've never read them setting her up as a Ryan at all. In fact, what I saw was that they said they needed new blood added to the team because they knew they'd stagnate without it and that Rachel made a great addition.

And I got the bit about Tamsin being a new interest from pre season 3 interviews with the producers. Which means nothing right now I guess since they keep changing their bloody minds about everything.

If they do get a Season 5, I hope we'll see more of her because was a waste of an introduction IMHO. The build up in Season 3 saw Tamsin going from a nemesis to an ally who found her perfect woman who she never believed could exist, only to be forced to betray her...and then at the end, decide to stick with Bo regardless of the consequences...which is something, given how they presented the Wanderer as being evil on every level.

But since they don't seem to be following up on any of that...I'm about to say screw the whole thing. This is supposed to be my fun time, not my "bang my head against a brick wall because it'd be less painful" time.
95. TheUberFan
But Tamsin wasn't an assassin. She was a bounty hunter. And her role as a valkyrie called her to take the einherjar to Valhalla.

She did suggest to Trick that there'd be a price to pay for not fulfilling her obligations but I have no idea what.

And I got the part about his being Dark from the Showcase episode review:
This episode doesn’t so much apologise for his behaviour as explain it. With Dao-Ming’s “help” — scare quotes intentional, because (i) she’s reluctant, (ii) she’s vengeful, and (iii) she proceeds to put him through a gruelling-albeit-entertaining interrogation — Trick discovers that he himself placed memory blocks in his head. A flashback sequence to the time when Trick was clearly enjoying being Dark King puts two pieces of the puzzle into place.
Nadine Robb
96. cmm
@Kiersten I agree with you concerning Trick. I don't think he was a dark fae king. I think as you've said he was pretty dark in some of the things he did but that didn't necessarily make him dark.

As for the Tasmin sl and her lack of appearances. I never saw as a full cast memeber. She's on the same level as Vex so her appareances are limited. I can see why Tasmin fans would be less than pleased though.

These days when I watch Lost Girl I tend to try to not look at it too deeply. I will speculate, but I try not to be involved as I once used to be. The only advice I can give on watching Lost girl at this point, is to forget all you've been told and watch it as is. Don't try to link things or overanalyze it because this is the only way you will enjoy the show. If you want to see sl progresion and things linking watch Sleepy Hollow, that is my new favourite show along with Almost Human.
Nadine Robb
97. cmm
@Uberfaenatic That's an interesting point. But, the dark king part in the review baffles me because Trick as far as I knew was never a dark king. It goes against everything the show has written so far. For example after Trick writes the laws Aoife defects to the dark side and went against her father. That implies that Trick was light fae. Unless in him doing whatever he did to Rainer made him dark OR perhaps Rainer did the same thing he did to Bo to Trick. In order for Trick to succeed in doing what he did and to break free of Rainer's hold he had to block the memory from himself?
98. TheUberFan
Right but I think what they are saying is that up until a certain point during the Fae Wars, Trick was a Dark King and that at some point later on, before writing the Blood Laws, he wrote himself to forget what he did to Rainer and wrote himself to be Light.

And then we pick up with him as a King, married to Ysabeau, and with no memories of him as being dark in the first place. Now he has a memory of it because of what Dao-Ming unlocked.

I still do not understand why Bo had to go dark fae in order to rescue Rainer. There's zero sense there.

Let's play this out. If she had the power to save him from the train, why didn't she when she was there in the first place? She was there for a whole month, after all. Instead, she aligned with the dark and that is not a temporary thing and it goes against everything she knows and believes...

That is a major issue. I don't buy she went dark for him to save him because that just doesn't make sense given what we know. But then apparently they'll change the rules of what we know so what we know won't matter in a week or two.
99. nypinta
Bo didn't need to be dark to rescue him. She became Dark while she was on the train because she knew she would forget what happened while there and that she would never go Dark and it would spur her on to get back on the train... so she could rescue Rainer? That's the part that doesn't make sense, to me. Because why is she able to take him from the train the second time? And why did it seem she was escaping a situation the first time, not finally enacting a plan on his behalf. So, I think he did something to her to make her go Dark knowing it would make her come back because he needed her to think this was all her idea for that "destiny" thing of his that he must have put on her to work. So it's a two layer thing. Right now she thinks she went Dark as a clue to her future self, a clue to get her to go back and rescue him. But I think he did something to make her go Dark for his own ends, but what? He's got to be using her to get back at Trick and maybe the Una Mens. So I'll wait to see what that plan is.

As for Tamsin, I didn't think she was going to become a regular, but I did hope. But she needs to get back to her cynical self and not just be another side kick to Bo.

But I am pretty annoyed with the love triangle forcing just to whisk it away for a false destiny thing and oh by the way she sexed up this other character who just two weeks ago was mentally a Belieber.
100. TheUberFan
The whole thing doesn't make sense though @nypinta. She would not have become dark arbitrarily like that. It defies everything she stands for.

I still think her hand was forced.
101. nypinta
That's the point. Bo on the train, we'll call BOOT, knew she was going to lose her memory as soon as she left and she needed a reason to get back on the train. So BOOT aligned herself with the Dark knowing she would forget why and her future self, FUSBO, would want to know why she aligned Dark because it does defy everything she stands for, and that would motivate FUSBO to get back onto the train.

The question is did she really do it for Rainer or did she do it for another reason that got wiped away when he activated the hand whammy?
Carmen Pinzon
102. bungluna
Everything we know about Trick's background came from a Garuda-induced flashback. Can we trust that to be true?

This season started out tieing loose ends from way back, which was good. But now it seems like we have many more dangling threads to deal with and only a few episodes left. I predict a crammed finale that doesnt' answer half the stuff that's been brought up and anothe cliff hanger.

I hate cliff hangers!
C. H.
103. SmurfFae
I think it went something like this:
Trick curses Rainer so no one can remember him and he can't escape the soul-train. Rainer probably uses the crows to hire Tamsin (enjoying the irony since she doomed him) to find his destined mate. Once he's located Bo, he kidnaps and brainwashes her. But she was captured against her will, and he has to be liberated by someone with free will (because magic) so she has to 1) return to the train to free him on her own free will
2) without remembering him, since Tricks curse makes her forget him

So she turns dark (just to make herself wonder 'what could be on the train to make her turn dark?') hires the opera singer to make her remember the train and sends herself a bottled Hugin to get access to the train and vois-la: Rainer's free!
104. TheUberFan
But I just cannot imagine Bo aligning to the Dark, which is a permanent thing, just to give her a motivation to get back on the train. That seems like such a stretch.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
105. Kiersten
That supposition on the Showcase recap blog is just that - supposition. Its no different from anything I might say; as far as I know there is no inside information happening there (but again, I'm often wrong/not in the loop.) I think many people are assuming he's a Dark King b/c of the interaction with Tamsin and because of his meglomanic meltdown with Dao Ming. There was *nothing* in that flashback that I remember where it was outright said that Trick was the or a Dark King, only that his behaviour was "dark" or "evil" and we already know that the Dark Fae have not cornered the market on that. I'll agree that Trick was clearly enjoying *being* dark but that does not automatically mean he was Dark Fae King. By contrast, we have a great deal of history of Trick being aligned to the Light Fae and even of his clan being long aligned to the Light Fae.

One of the few things Lost Girl *has* done consistently is reiterate (and often show) how being Light or Dark Fae isn't a morality choice and doesn't automatically deliniate "good" and "bad". More like "follow tradition and look like you're following the rules just don't get caught when you break them" and "Rules. Schmules. We do want we want until someone more powerful tells us not to." In other words, just because Trick is/has always been Light Fae doesn't mean he is/always has been "good".
106. nypinta
If Rainer brainwashed her on the train, he might have told her that her alignment could be undone once she freed him.
107. nypinta
I have a feeling whether or not Trick was Dark or just an asshat Light it will be one of those things that the writers will just ignore, no matter if they actually intend it to be that Trick was Dark and wrote himself Light using his blood because it's just another fact that doesn't matter... which I think is the most frustrating aspect of every episode that I've ever had an issue with. They have characters doing things that all speak to one truth and then have another character say something completely opposite about what the other character did and suddenly the line is the truth, the actions are not. Or they set up a certain truth and circle it but never state it, which is a pity because it's usually something that would be fantastic to explore. Trick once being Dark but actually having the power to change his alignment with his blood would be pretty impressive and awesome. It would actually make him more powerful and above the very laws he wrote, which makes his statements of grandeur to the ludwan not grandeur, but fact. And it says more about Trick that he was willing to write himself into a lessor position. But I have a feeling that none of that will even be part of the next few episodes. Unless Trick is the third big bad and Bo has to talk him back to Trickster status. (Like Xander telling Dark Willow about the yellow crayon.)
108. TheUberFan
It could be just the Lost Girl blog making it up...but given how Trick started talking about himself and his actions...not caring how many millions of people he killed...that suggests more Dark Fae than Light Fae who are "supposed to frown on those kinds of things" (per the Light Fae fury in Season 1).

The Trick who we saw in that flashback was signficantly darker than the one who wrote the Blood Laws...and the one we see now, who fears the power of his blood and the consequences of using them. The Trick from the Fae Wars flashback did not care. He was consumed with power.

Dao-Ming made the most prescient point here I think. He could rewrite his past and future...but could not change his nature.
109. Darthfeader
@Cmm per your post #96 about Tamsin not being a regular and is suppose to have the same amount of screen time as Vex. I understand
what you are saying but they had Tamsin show up in all episodes in
season 3 except for 2 of them. They treated her like a regular last season then religate her back to a recurring role in season 4. They the PTB knew how popular Tamsin had become and that is why they brought her back for season 4. You don't shelve a popular character
like they did with Tamsin in season 4 it makes no sense to piss a part of
your fan base like that. I put some of the blame on EA because she seems to cater to the doccubus crowd way to much. That is why I am sooooooooooooooooooooo glad that she is leaving the show to go work on another show. Let's just forget about the Valkubus ship for a moment and just consider that it's not just the Valkubus shippers that
are mad about Tamsin's lack of screen time it's also all of us who are Tamsin fans. Well at least Jay F. who created the character of Tamsin is a big Tamsin fan. He is the executive producer and at the end of the day does have the last word on the amount of screen time that Tamsin gets. Hopefully he will do the right thing and make up the lack of screen time for Tamsin in season 4 and give her more screen time in season 5?
110. Onceinabluemoon
Hey @stacymd2
I just don't agree but it's okay. We can can have our own opinions. It's part of the reason I love talking about the show. I just really didn't like how it portrayed Dyson. If we didn't have that back story of Bo being all worried about Lauren and her missing then I would completely agree and say that was sexy as hell because it was a fun line between them. It's just with that info. I felt like it made Dyson look like he was taking a cheap shot by taking advantage of the situation, but honestly I felt it made Bo look that way too. I just wasn't a fan of the whole exchange. Just like I didn't like him kissing Bo in the dawning while she was in a relationship with Lauren. I hate how they make him look in those situations because he's better than that, and I think he really was respectful of their relationship. I can't blame him too much though because when your in love with someone it's hard not to want more. Especially when you have to see them with someone else. I'm not only a Lauren fan or only a Dyson fan. I just really love all the characters, so I defend them all or call them out on something when I don't like it. I know here it's predominantly Dyson fans and there are other sites that are predominately Lauren fans so I don't mean to offend.

As for Tamsin, I really am sorry about your friend. I'm not sure which line you are referring too but I'm guessing it's from last season. I was specifically talking about her comments in 4x09 because other people had brought it up.

The only person I am not a huge fan of this season is unfortunately Bo. I honestly think maybe Bo is supposed to be completely opposite from what we've known her to be for three seasons though, and I think it's related to whatever interaction Rainer has had with her. At least I'm hoping so because I am not a fan of this new, unimproved Bo. Memory loss doesn't give you a reason to be a huge jerk to everyone you love and people who have been there for you. I can say that at least in 4x08 when she admitted she was scared she was able to finally move forward. Then Rainer came and screwed things up again. I agree with the theories that Rainer has some kind of hold over Bo. Unfortunately, It seems we're not going to find out for a while. I know Trick looks like the bad guy right now, but I'm not sure if he's really going to end up being evil. In this episode he seemed like he regretted his past actions, and wanted to do whatever he could to help Bo and make up for who he was in the past. I've noticed, as others have mentioned, that this season has a huge theme of the past catching up with you. Dyson had mentioned something to that effect several times and another mentioned it. I think in this episode but I can't be sure. Dyson, Lauren, Tamsin, and Trick have all had to deal with this theme already. I wonder if Bo will be next. I also want to know what this whole handprint thing is. It has to have some importance. Even the Levi mentioned the handprint when she stated she had been looking for Rainer. People have speculated that the mention of hands throughout the season is important. Even if we go back to Season 3 Acacia had her hand cut off and Dyson was Bo's "hand" in the Dawning. Vex had his hand cut off. Those are some things I can think of now. They may mean something in regards to hints of importance when it comes to Rainer's hand print, or they may mean nothing. Regardless, I do believe that the handprint on Bo's chest is significant. As other people have said, there is no way Bo would have abandoned everything she has ever stood for and believed in for some guy without external influence. If that was the case she would have done that for Dyson or for Lauren or even Kenzi. Point is there are plenty of people she loves, but she has never sacrificed who she is or her beliefs before. It's one of the things I loved about Bo.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
111. Kiersten
@DarthFaeder - this is the first I've heard of EA leaving Lost Girl. Can you tell me where you heard/saw that and if there's any official information about it?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
112. Kiersten
@Darthfaeder - as for the "regular" status of Tamsin or any other character, the only regulars on Lost Girl from the very beginning are Anna Silk, Ksenia Solo and Kris Holden-Ried. Zoie Palmer was added as a "regular" late in S1 due to her unexpected popularity. Those four are the only actors listed in the credits (in the Canadian run, that is, as the U.S. had truncated the credits in order to allow for more of the show and less cuts) or "above the title" as they say in movie parlance. That's just business. Assuming any character or actor has "regular" status based only on screen time in one season is misleading.

K.C., Rick, Paul, and now Rachel are all "recurring" characters. Now some recurring characters have more screen time than others - we saw lots more of Hale and Trick in S1 than we have ever since while Paul was a two-off guest star. Tamsin was the new girl on the block and one added for specific reasons to the S3 story arc and, just as importantly, Hale was not as prominent because K.C. had commitments to Saving Hope that cut into his availability for Lost Girl. So Rachel/Tamsin filled many a spot where it's likely K.C./Hale would've been in other circumstances specifically as Dyson's partner. I wouldn't be surprised if they created space for a new character, who ended up being Tamsin, as a direct result of K.C.'s scheduling issues, but that's pure supposition on my part.

This is why Tamsin was in so many of S3's episodes, many of which involved Dyson and cop work where Hale wouldve/couldve been had things been different. Since her addition to S4 was made late in S3, assuming the S3 finale was probably original written for Tamsin to die in the crash, there was a lot to undo/fix in order to give her a story for S4 (which she hasnt really had outside of resurrection and flashbacks/S3 explanations.) Meanwhile we have the actual regular characters who have needed big time issue resolution (much of which we're still waiting for) and for Anna/Bo, a limited number of episodes to do it in. Plus, now Hale is back and his and Kenzi's relationship in taking more prominence and thus there's no need for Tamsin to "stand in" for him as Dyson's partner or otherwise.

It's disappointing we're not getting more of Tamsin because Rachel Skarsten is so great and a ton of fun on the show, but it's not really a surprise as she was never set up to be a regular on Lost Girl and, with her original story mostly played out, finding a place where she fits in the narrative isn't as cut and dried as it was in S3 and is clearly taking longer to set up in S4.
113. TheUberFan
@Kiersten... if I may butt in... I think @DarthFaeder is referring to this:

Where it has her listed as being involved in a new project.

I don't know if that means she's leaving Lost Girl or if she's just interested in taking on a new project...or what. But there it is:
SMOKE & MIRRORS An illusionist returns home to Niagara Falls and uses his extraordinary skills as a private detective.
Adam Barken (FLASHPOINT)
Emily Andras (LOST GIRL)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
114. Kiersten
Thanks @UberFaenatic! Interesting indeed. Ron Moore is EP of Helix and is doing Outlander for Starz so anythings possible, but it's is interesting that they announced that when there's been no news (that I'm aware of) from the LG camp.

Thanks for the link! You know how much I love links.
115. TheUberFan
My understanding was that they thought they were getting 22 episodes and didn't for Season 3. I also understood that Tamsin was only supposed to be in one season.

But I'm sorry...I'm having a hard time believing they simply cannot figure out how to integrate her character. And frankly, given this season's penchant for obsessing on the non-existent TRIANGLE, it feels to me at least like they just didn't give it much thought beyond her role in the Wanderer arc.

But then it would seem they've changed their minds about that too, having used all of Season 3 to set up The Wanderer as Bo's father...and now...

Kiersten Hallie Krum
116. Kiersten
That link also list Jeremy Boxen from LG on a project, so are we supposed to assume there's a mass exodus going on?

With S5 not yet official, and these projects still "in development", which could mean anything, this could easily be people setting up work for an uncertain future just in case.

I wouldnt be comfortable saying EA is leaving LG until there's official word from Firestone or Showcase or EA herself on the matter.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
117. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic - I agree with everyone's exhaustion with "the triangle". especially when they've played out the doccubus relationship multiple times and then keep retconning those decisions for whatever insane reasons. And this curveball of The Wanderer not actually being Bo's father (or so it appears at the moment) is really the last straw of teasing an audience, dragging them along, and not coming up with the payoff. I do think they couldve done better by Tamsin but I understand why they haven't. Firestone loves the Tamsin character so maybe's there's a payoff there yet to come this season.
118. TheUberFan
Thanks for the link! You know how much I love links.
Sure thing @Kiersten. :)
I wouldnt be comfortable saying EA is leaving LG until there's official word from Firestone or Showcase or EA herself on the matter.
I agree. For all we know, these are projects they could work on off season. We know the cast has other engagements and gigs to get involved with during the off season.

When do we find out about Season 5?
119. TheUberFan
@Firestone loves the Tamsin character so maybe's there's a payoff there yet to come this season.
Yeah that's what I'm holding onto with both hands. lol

He also suggested we could get more Tamsin backstory in Season 5 (that is if we get one, of course).

I would personally like to see her status upgraded to a regular or to at least see more of her. She is such a fascinating character and valkyries are cool anyway.

But imagine how old she has to be and what she's seen and experienced. She was on her last life. DURING THE FAE WAR. That's over 1000 years ago. Trick rebooted her lifecycles in exchange for Rainer's soul...but think of what she saw and did in the thousand plus years prior. So she has to be at least 2,000 years old, and has never had love or family until this, her last lifetime. *sniffles*
Kiersten Hallie Krum
120. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic - no idea. Usually, about this time in the Canada run, but dunno. Based on that conf press call, it sounds like their optimistic about a S5 but there's still no official word.

May possibly have to wait till after the Canada S4 finale. If someone of note is going to die, they may not want the S5 press releases, which tend to list all the cast members contracted for the new season, to give away the surprise...
121. Onceinabluemoon
I 100% agree with being exhausted with the triangle.

@Kiersten I think the same could be said for the relationship between Dyson and Bo. It seems the show wants to go back and forth as much as possible to keep something going that no fan wants to see anymore, the triangle. I honestly don't care who Bo picks just as long as this thing ends. However, if Rainer is a legitamate love interest and that's who Bo ends up with I feel that would be a huge slap in the face to the fans who have watched the show for years.

@UberFaenatic I think they are definitely going to have a season 5. What did Kris say in the recent interview, He would bet his wolf they will have a season 5 lol. So, I would definitely be optimistic. I agree with you. She is one of the oldest fae in the group and probably would have an amazing back story. I already love what they have done with her story this season so it would be cool to see that expound upon.
122. TheUberFan
Well we saw Dyson without his wolf in Season 2...and he became Ksenia Solo...which would be fun, but I want to keep my sexy wolf man as a sexy wolf man.

Just sayin'. So bring on Season 5 and death to the Triangle.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
123. Kiersten
@OnceInABlueMoon you could say that about Bo and Dyson but it wouldnt be quite as accurate given that they've never really had a good chance at things for numerous reasons. Also, they've been set up from the very first episode of the show as one of the 2 core relationships of the entire series (the other being Bo's relationship with Kenzi) and it would be a major cheat to just obliterate them now b/c of the left turn into doccutopia that was S3 and the subsequent S4 triangle shenanigans that have left everyone exhausted with the ridiculousness of perpetuating it any further.

I 100% agree that moving Rainer into position of Bo's legitamite, non-whammied love interest is a massive foul and smack in the face of *all* fans who have hung in there this long. Here's hoping that's resolved and killed off by the end of S4
125. TheUberFan
@Kiersten... have you seen the name several groups have come up with for the ship name for Rainer and Bo?

RainBo was an obvious one...but I prefer...

*drumroll please*


Yes...I went there. And so did many others. ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
126. Kiersten
Ah, I really hate shipper names and the current trend to immediately christen a couple with such a name.

That said, if pushed, I'd go with RainBo. Because I'm not a 12-year-old boy.

Not that you are, @UberFaenatic. Just...ew.
127. TheUberFan
@Onceinabluemoon... I agree. Doccubus played out and it ended because Lauren ended it.

Dyson/Bo may have missed their chance. I was totally shipping them in Season 1 but it feels like Bo's character arc has moved past it...but just like Doccubus, the show keeps bringing it back. I don't see that she feels what she did for him back then and the fact that she dropped him like a hot potato when Lauren slow-motion floated across the screen in Let the Dark Times Roll seems to back up my assertion. If she really loved him, she wouldn't be so ready to drop kick him like that.

So basically, her only real dilemma is to figure out how to say neither without hurting either of them. Perhaps that's how the Rainer arc will help.

As a Bo/Tamsin fan, I'd like to see them explore that more since I think that would add a fascinating dimension to the show. Maybe Tamsin will be integral in making Bo realize Mr. Dreamy isn't what he says he is.
128. OnceInABlueMoon
@Kiersten I get where your coming from. I just know that people can and have made arguments for each relationship depending on who they prefer. Including for Tamsin and Bo. And yes! Cheers to bringing down whatever it is between Bo and Rainer by the end of S4!
129. TheUberFan
@Kiersten... lol!

It was my fan bitterness that brought that about. And since poop, dick and fart jokes are par for the course.... ;)

That said, I've read others using the exact same thing. So I'm not so original with the epithet. Unfortunately.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
130. Kiersten
The fact that she dropped him like a hot potato when Lauren slow-motion floated across the screen in Let the Dark Times Roll seems to back up my assertion. If she really loved him, she wouldn't be so ready to drop kick him like that.

Except she didn't. Dyson wasn't even in that episode. There was no dropping; there was only picking up. She never said "we really were on a break; guess I'll have to let Dyson know" as she was lying in his bed and drunkenly and delusionally waxing on about DL. She never "dropped" Dyson. For Bo, there *is* no either or and never has been excepting only DL's "No Dyson" restrictions in S3, (and, arguably, Bo's delusional pipe dream of the white-picket fence monogamous fallacy during the same) a rule I highly doubt Bo would agree to a second time had they reconstituted doccubus for S4. She tried to pick up where she left off w/DL because sex is easier than actually having to deal with their issues, but that doesn't automatically mean she dropped Dyson because I think, had it been left to play out, she would have quickly realized how unrealistic it was to think she and DL could start again as if nothing had happen.

For some time now, and S4E5 really brought this home, it's seemed there's 2 shows going on here: Lost Girl and the spinoff Lost Girl: The Doccubus Adventures where they handily ignore any and everything from the core show that might crimp their style. They even had to remove Dyson from the entire episode in order for the Bo/DL scenes to play out without directly addressing the large wolf in the room. And Bo has always been self-delusional about her relationship with DL - a state DL herself does not or at least no longer shares. The shiny glowy moment when Bo first saw DL again was meant to personified the unrealistic perception Bo has of her and of their relationship, the pedestal on which she's hoisted both for a long time now.

Consider that the last time Bo and DL were in the same room, DL said some really cruel things to her, and meant them regardless of how much of her was playing to Taft at the time. Afterward at the end of S3, Bo was more concerned with finding Kenzi and Dyson than she was in figuring out where DL got to. And yet the first time they see one another again it's all "we really should talk but let's get this dress off instead." That is not a lasting relaionship; that is a fantasy and one based more on their sexual attraction to one another than anything else. On those rare occassions when they stop banging and start talking, Bo and DL's relationship quickly falls apart. When Dyson and Bo stop banging and start talking, their's (usually) grows stronger.
131. TheUberFan
So with all the tie ins to Norse mythology on the show, especially this season (Norse runes on the Una Mens crate in In Memoriam, Norse runes on the wall behind Massimo and Bo in Turn to Stone, the reference to Eikþyrnir in Groundhog Fae, Huginn and Muninn and the crows in Destiny's Child, Tamsin's role as a valkyrie who takes the souls of the einherjar to Valhalla...and who knows how many others)....

How much import should we give to the fact that Ragnarök (Norse end of the world scenario) is scheduled to hit on February 22, 2014?
132. TheUberFan
But @Kiersten... she did in essence drop him when she was telling Vex that she and Lauren were really just on a break after all and no permanent damage was done... and then later on with Lauren, she wanted to pick up where they left off in Season 3.

That she didn't say, "I guess I better tell Dyson" or that he wasn't in the episode doesn't change the fact that she wanted to get back together with Lauren as if nothing had happened and as if Lauren hadn't dumped her. That would have meant "no wolf" because that was a condition of their relationship.

So yeah, I think it's clear that she was ready to turn back the clock to her happy time when she was deluding herself with Lauren.
And Bo has always been self-delusional about her relationship with DL - a state DL herself does not or at least no longer shares. The shiny glowy moment when Bo first saw DL again was meant to personified the unrealistic perception Bo has of her and of their relationship, the pedestal on which she's hoisted both for a long time now.
I totally agree with you here. In re-re-etc watching Season 3, I don't see any time that their relationship was really all that stable. It was always tentative. Lauren was always unsure of her position with Bo and I think that at the end of the day...the thing that drew them to each other...Bo's faeness and Lauren's in large part what would drive them apart. That and the fact that they're totally incompatible on pretty much every level.

But I guess because they look hot when they kiss and have their sexy times we should totally ignore the fact that they never communicated, lied to each other all the time and never dealt with any of their major much so that Bo had no idea that Lauren was ready to walk away because she was so unhappy with their relationship.

Interestingly, when Levi is trying to solve the non-riddle riddle, she counts the plus in Lauren's column is Bo's love and the plus in Dyson's column is his strength and longevity. Not love.

I honestly don't think she "loves" either of them like she'd like to but she doesn't want to hurt anyone. Which drags this whole thing out and hurts everyone. So I can thank Rainer for helping show Bo she has an option besides the wolf and the doctor, who she will never choose between.
Carmen Pinzon
133. bungluna
I'm sick and tired of the triangle. I'm also sick and tired of the show focusing on who's guesting in Bo's hooha all the time. It's sacrificed Bo's relationship with Kenzie and every arc that doesn't directly derive from Bo's sexcapades.

I'm hanging in there, hoping there will be some resolution by the end of this season, which had been playing much better than the previous 2 season.

As for Andras, may she go in peace to screw some other show, preferably one that's not so mythology-heavy so that a bible and continuity and adult conversations won't cramp her artistic style.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
134. Kiersten
@Uberfaenatic - As I said in that comment, I have no doubt that "No Dyson" rule would not have remained had they indeed restarted doccubus. She wanted to pick up where they left off, yes, but 1. she was high and 2. even Bo, once she had a chance to ethink about it without the drugs, wouldve realized she wasn't willing to sacrifice Dyson a second time to DL's insecurities. But more, it was another example of how these Doccubus Adventures seem to exist independently of what's going on with the rest of the show and ergo don't have to take into account things like "what about your relationship with Dyson?" particularly since, in this situation at least, her reunion with DL never became viable enough to address that issue.
135. TheUberFan
I don't know, @Kiersten. I don't think the rule would have been thrown out because the whole point is that Bo becomes an idiot when it comes to Lauren so she'd do anything to make her happy. I see no evidence from that episode that she would have said, "let's pick up where we left off but only if the Dyson rule is dunked." In fact, I see every evidence that she would have done anything she could to reimerse herself in the security of the delusion she knew from before she was smoked away.

What really burns me here...and it's that she starts out the episode referring to Dyson as essentially a battery recharger. Then, when she sees Lauren, she literally acts as though they can just pick up where they left off. She wanted to celebrate their reunion with sexy times in her tub, if you will recall. Because all relationship problems are solved by banging in Bo's world.

Then, Lauren says no thanks and see you around. So Lauren says no, right?

And then for the next few episodes, both of them are acting as if Lauren is still "in the running" or has a chance with Bo, if only Bo could make up her mind. What?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
136. Kiersten
I dont see anything in the episode that says "let's pick up where we left off but only if the Dyson rule is dunked" either. I'm saying that had they'd gotten back together after the episode played out, I highly doubt Bo would agree to the No Dyson rule because it doesnt work and she's been enjoying being back with him too much to walk away from that again just because DL is twitchy. That said, I also don't think that DL would ask. As DL instead dumped Bo for the third time, again brutally having to bring home the truth to shatter Bo's self-delusions, it's a moot point. The issue was whether, by indulging her self-delusions for the short while when she thought they were going to get back together, during which she was also high from DL's drug, that means Bo immediately dumped Dyson as a hot-potato and I still see nothing in the episode that even implies that especially given that he's not even there to be a part of the episode and that they never discuss him in relation to it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
137. Kiersten
@Uberfaenatic - yes to all of that about the battery re-charge and the fact that DL unequivacably said no and yet in subsequent episodes, she and all of them act as if she's still in the running. As @nypita has said before, how can DL be a choice for Bo when DL herself has already chosen not to be with Bo? That's the show promoting the idea of "the triangle" way beyond what it's actually written about the relevance of "the triangle", which is just dumb b/c it pisses off all sides of the fandom.

I think the battery re-charge crack and others like it are deliberate fanwanks to the doccubus core fanbase as though Dyson needs to be minimized in order for Bo and DL to be viable even for one episode. It ignores all the tenderness, love, and unity Bo and Dyson displayed in E3 and all the fun sexy teasing and "parenting" they did together in E4. That's what I mean by "Doccubus Adventures." The show actually has to attack with cheap shots and attempt to minimize Dyson's and sometimes Kenzi's relationship with Bo in order to elevate her relationship with DL and then has to basically remove them almost entirely from the situation for Bo and DL to have viability.
138. TheUberFan
Oh I see. Right. Well since she's not in a relationship with any of them right now, I mean dumping in a mental/emotional place more than anything else.

My point was that once she saw Lauren, she became an idiot again who was willing and desperate to reimmerse herself in the delusion of her relationship with Lauren, and all that entails.

Which suggests strongly to me that she wanted things as they were last season...meaning, no wolf and all doccu-lovin'.

But it's frustrating as a viewer, because like you and I have both said...Lauren dumped her originally...reiterated it in front of Taft (for show, but still) and then repeated it in Let the Dark Times Roll...and yet both of them are acting like Bo has a tough choice to make.

I almost get the sense that she's using the non-choice of Lauren as a means to keep from having to tell Dyson no thanks because, like she said to Levi, she doesn't choose him and she doesn't choose Lauren either...that there is no answer. But then there can be no answer to a non-existent problem.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
139. Kiersten
I think it strongly suggested that she wanted to go back to life before the train and before losing her memory and before going against her core nature by declaring herself Dark. She wanted to escape her reality and the ethereal perception she has of her relationship with DL allows her to do that. Dyson is all passion and hard real life and frank conversations, and messy, imperfect, difficult choices with real consequences and sticking with people you love even when it's difficult - even when they're difficult. DL is all soft light and dodging confrontation and conversation and running away from your problems and hiding your secrets and just pure fantasy. Hell, who wouldnt want to spend some time imagining she could go back to something so pleasantly unreal when the life she's returned to is so fractious and uncertain?
140. TheUberFan
I really wish Bo would have tried to re-find herself by reconnecting with KENZI.

Forget trying to relaunch've got a best friend who needs you and you've completely ignored...and you don't even seem to care, Bo.

Forget all ships...that right there is the central relationship of the show and I think it's suffered the most from the triangle obsession.

In Destiny's Child, Bo cradles Dyson and Lauren's face and tells them they need to watch her walk away from them and tells them she loves them...and doesn't say anything at all to Kenzi. The camera focused on her too, so the implied rejection was acknowledged and recognized, at least, and was intentional.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
141. Kiersten
That right there is the central relationship of the show and I think it's suffered the most from the triangle obsession.

Yes, absolutely, it has.
142. Stacymd2
Hi guys,

I love the convo and specs. I too feel your frustrations about Lost Girl right now. The lack of B/K...the triangle from Hel...the who is Bo's daddy game...the lack of K/H...the slow moving plot...and little S3 resolution, etc. I'm still in the "dude, season 4 is still better" mode.

I can't take the RainBo thing seriously. We don't know him yet. We don't know the full story.

It was expected that Anna and Kyle would have a sex scene. Lost Girl would be crazy to pass on that.

It looks like you guys were right about everything being crammed into the final two episodes. I just hope they do resolve something this season and not end on a clif hanger. This is Lost Girl not Game of Thrones. I'm tired of waiting for winter to come.

Regarding L/B/D, I still think B & D will not be together until the final three minutes of the last episode, of the final season. Until then, TPTB will put Bo with anyone they want (Storyline be damned.). What is frustrating is watching L/B's toxic relationship. This maybe why the writers are keeping the Hel Triangle alive. They don't want to loose or piss off Doccubus which is very vocal online, but they want to explore Bo in other relationships.

@UberFae: I too thought TPTB was going to put Bo with Tamsin this season, either as a lover or as a bio sister. It could have been very interesting. I would have prefered to see the snark and tension between T/B/D. Or, if Tamsin was Bo's sister, then see the snark and tension between T/B/K. Instead we get everybody loves their new BFF Savior-Wonder Lauren.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
144. Kiersten
@staceymd2 - I wouldve loved to see the snark between T/B/D or T/B/K either way wouldve been epic.
145. TheUberFan
I saw commenters on the Episode 1 thread say they're done with the Triangle and suggest they hope it won't come up anymore this season.

Oh those poor dears.
Carmen Pinzon
146. bungluna
I've been biting my knuckles, trying to not answer some of the comments on the s4e1 thread.
Suzanne Metaxas
147. SuzyM
You can answer @bugluna :) just don't give anything away :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
148. Kiersten
@bungluna Imagine me moderating them and then bite harder...
149. nypinta
I'm still holding out hope that the final episodes will have everything make sense. Except for the insanity of the love triangle conundrum. Sadly though I've been reading comments other places and people seem to consider anyone being upset by the idea that Bo is the one that has to choose between Dyson and Lauren is just angry that Lauren "is still in the running" and not because IT MAKES NO FREAKIN' SENSE! I just don't understand how anyone can watch this season and everything that has happened between the characters concerned and not get that Bo isn't the one that gets to choose. Because not only is it completely counter to what has been established, the fans that are cheering on Bo to eventually choose Lauren are advocating Bo ignore Lauren's decision. That's, uh, not OK. If Lauren wanted Bo back, she wouldn't have to compete with Dyson. She would just have to have a conversation with Bo. That has never happened. And nothing Lauren has said has ever indiciated that it is what she desires, comments to the effect of "score one for the Doctor" included. That wasn't a vocalization of her wanting to get back with Bo, because just a few moments before when Bo was laying on the charm, Lauren rejected her. So, no, Bo (wow) isn't the one with a decision to make.
As for the episode where Lauren comes back, I kind of agree that Bo did drop Dyson, at least in an emotional way, the moment that she saw Lauren. She didn't even consider him or how they were relating to each other now when she got Lauren alone in that room. And she never even mentioned it to him afterwards. It was almost like Lauren's rejection of her never happened. I know that Bo and Dyson are not exclusive, but does Bo even mention what happened between her and Lauren to Dyson? Another thing that may or may not have even happened at all, but if it did was definitely off screen. But it's kind of important. Because if she did, it would be an indication of what kind of relationship they have now. But can't have that! Because that would ruin their ability to keep the triangle myth going. Bo is in a love triangle, because she loves Dyson and she loves Lauren, so she won't commit to Dyson because she is still in love with Lauren. Dyson is in a love triangle because he loves Bo but he knows that not only does Bo love him but she also loves Lauren so he doesn't press for an exclusive relationship while that is true. Lauren is the only one not in a love triangle. She loves Bo, but she's made her decision about being with her. But she can't leave because, well, actually the fae won't let her. Unfortunately the writers must have decided that Bo in a not-exclusive relationship with Dyson and getting over Lauren wasn't that epic enough for when Bo comes back from the train with her pronouncement so in the last few episodes, despite what they had going on in the first half of the show, they rammed in the love triangle again so that two people would be left out when Rainer is declared the winner. (Completely ignoring how it would effect Kenzi, as Bo did.)
I made the case for people to lay off of Bo in the first half of the season, but almost everything I said was undone by Bo in that stupid speech to Dyson and Lauren at the Dal about them having to watch her walk away. From season three Kenzi has had issue with her vulnerablity as a human in Bo's world. She had been abducted by a crazed fae and chained in a cave and had to wait for Bo to come rescue her. Then Bo was taken from her and she had to sink to levels she hadn't since she and Bo first got together just to keep herself alive. Another situation that was rectified only when Bo returned. She tried to take care of it but Bo assured her she was back and that she'd be there for Kenzi. Then all of a sudden she's not. She's just going to leave and she didn't even bother discussing it with Kenzi beforehand. She just announces it to everyone and then ignores Kenzi for Dyson and Lauren. All so her declaration with Rainer at the end of the episode is more dramatic. Except I didn't need reinforcement of the triangle for it to feel the whiplash of her "destiny". I don't think the audience needed it either. Instead all they did is frustrate people and make Bo look like a neglectful self centered person towards Kenzi, delusional towards Lauren, and cruel towards Dyson.

Sorry. Didn't meant to get so ranty. It just happened. But her drinking the destiny kool-aid didn't happen until Rainer activated whatever whammy he put on her and that was long after the insance conversation at the Dal and the stupid "riddle" with Levi.
Dine Stueg
150. Nocturne
From what I gather from other sites and this one is that there a main consensus among the fans on two issues:
-There has to be more Bo/Kenzi
-The love triangle has to end
So, writers of season 5, if you're reading this, keep that in mind ;)

My ideal season 5 would be with Lauren gone. It would mean the end of the triangle, there is more time to focus on Bo/Kenzi and I wouldn't be bored anymore by Lauren scenes. I know it's never going to happen (and I don't want for ZP to be fired), but well it's always nice to dream. Although I really love Tamsin, I don't think I want her to be a regular. They're already bad at making storylines for four regulars, imagine if they had five regulars. It would only make for more unfinished storylines.

If Emily Andras really is going to leave LG or her involvement is going to be less, I hope that will give room for improvement. In my opinion, EA is great at writing episodes. A lot of her episodes are my favorites (ArachnoFaebia, Mirror mirror, Original Skin, The Girl Who Fae'd With Fire and Groundhog Fae), but I don't really like her as a showrunner. Seasons 1 and 2 were of a much higher quality than seasons 3 and 4. So, for season 5 I hope EA will stay showrunner but hires a contiuity keeper or a new showrunner takes over who knows how to continue and wrap up storylines. Someone who focuses on the heart of the show, let characters really talk to each other again about their thoughts, feelings and whatever!

Maybe it's because I've been rewatching season 1 and watching season 2 again now, but Kenzi and Bo talk with each other like all the time there and it's really missing in the last seasons.
I'm also still on team Bo with nobody, because she's never been alone after she found out she was Fae. She needs to find herself first and realize she doesn't need a lover for happiness.

After that happens, I think that for Dybo fans it's only fair they give Dyson/Bo a real emotional closure or another real try for their relationship, because it ended so tragically in season 2. They broke up, because Dysons love was taken, not because they wanted to. I really liked Dyson/Bo in season 1, but nowadays Bo seems heartless and not good enough for Dyson.

I would also be fine with a serious exploration of Tamsin/Bo, but not with Tamsin still switching between being a child/adolescent/adult in every episode. I don't know if they would be good for each other or how they would even behave towards each other in a committed relationship. I will have to watch how their relationship continues and if it's good I might ship them.

I'm actually excited for the upcoming episode (maybe my expectations already weren't that high, because Hale probably won't be in it), but I like they're going undercover again (first time this season!) and was also pleasantly surprised the Una Mens and Rainer are connected in the storyline. I was scared they had already forgetten about the Una Mens.
151. Darthfaeder
@Uberfae post #145 Bahahahahaahhaahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! Good one!
How about poor us? Well at least our pain is almost over! Already looking
forward to season 5 and season 4 isn't even over with. Sigh!
Carmen Pinzon
152. bungluna
I'm with you, Darthfaeder. I'm already hoping for season 5, preferably without EA, please deities!

Bo as a main character is the source of all my problems with the show.

On season 1
She was a serial killer. She had gotten what passes for a moral compass from those 'simple country folk' who raised her. She kept killing her sex partners whenever she gave in to her 'lust'. Therefore, she's a bad, bad girl who hated herself.
Enter the Fae and she discovers that she's not so bad, she's just Fae! For a shining moment, I thought this show would be revolutionary in that it established a great relationship between Dyson and Bo. They would be on-again, off-again while she found her way in this new world.
Alas, no dice. Because in tv-land we have to have the doomed love and the freaking triangle form hell, we get WonderLauren shoved down our throat.

Season 2
Dyson loses his love and what does Bo do? Abso%$&**nglutely nothing.
Oh, the Garuda is coming. Bo fools around with a dark Fae, the best part of S2 imo.
And lets not forget Bo flirting with Dr. Mengelauren.
Kenzie, the human, has to put on her big DYI panties and free Dyson's love. WTF?!

Season 3
The WonderLauren show. Let's just forget all about it, PLEASE.

Season 4
Bo ignores Kenzie, who's had a really hard time during the past year. One better, she snipes at poor Kenzie.
Bo uses Dyson, and drools over WonderLauren and acts like a selfish jerk.
Now Bo buys the destiny propaganda and still ignores Kenzie.

At this point, I wish Bo would die a horrible death, be banished to some dimension far, far away, and the show because all about Kenzie.
I would even tolerate a Lauren & Dyson investigative team, since these two have great chemestry.

Whatever happens, would somebody please kill the freaking triangle off once and for all.
Nadine Robb
153. cmm
WOW! Crap just got real and the first 5 minutes of the show were kinda graphic. So as usual Bo's acting before thinking gets her into trouble. I can't wait for the next episode.
Carmen Pinzon
154. bungluna
OH, do tell! I have to wait forever, (ok for a couple of hours,) to get my hands on the episode.
Nadine Robb
155. cmm
The opening scene where the woman gets her legs chopped off. One minute they're there the next minute they're not. Also the Una Mens, their fate. I really don't want to spoil it for you lol! I actually enjoyed this episode because it shed a little light on Bo's time on the train and how she came to know Rainer. I still say she's being controlled some how. Also the the justification for imprisoning Rainer, I would think Tricks power was worse. Unless he Rainer wanted to rule everyone.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
156. Kiersten
I figured it out: Bo is only attracted to people who reject her because not being wanted is a concept she can't understand. She pursued Dyson after his tryst with the bar maid to be friends with benefits. She's violating Doctor Lauren's agency at every turn by constantly trying to get back with a woman whose repeatedly made her desire not to be in a relationship with Bo known to her. And now with Rainer, he didn't immediately fall at her feet and instead was rude and abrasive when they first met. Naturally, he's her destiny.
Nadine Robb
158. cmm
LMAO! So true Kiersten. I was shocked at how easily she trusted him, that's why I believe she's being controlled. I don't understand that scene of fear she had when Rainer came close to her in the previous episode. In the context of today's that scene makes no sense. I have to hope the Tptb have a plan and will connect the episodes soon. As for Rainer, his power was kinda lame, I fail to see how it's that big of a deal to the fae. To me having the power to write laws that bind people to obey is far worse. At least they've managed to redeem Trick to a point with this episode because now that the Una Mens have repeated what he said to Tasmin, maybe Trick wasn't being such a tyrant and had a legitimate reason.
159. nypinta
It's still a bit up in the air who the real bad guy is though. Rainer was trying to end the Light and the Dark where as Trick re-inforced the divide. Although I find it interesting that they repeat the memory loss theme changin a person even with the 'big bad' of the season when Rainer questions who he might be when he gets his power back.
I did find it weird how fast Bo trusted him, but then she trusted Dyson pretty quickly after he helped abduct her too so... she just seems to have a sense about people. And so far memoryless Rainer isn't bad. But we'll see who he is now that he's back on the physical plane. Because so far, taking out the Una Mens makes him a good guy to me. They actually had the nerve to stand there and decide that all of Bo's friends should die but Bo and Rainer are wrong for wanting to end them? Gah! It's like mob mentality when they kill someone and feel like no one should take offense, (including the person's family) because it's "just business."
They were a little heavy handed with the case of the week participants reinforcing how the trio feels. I don't understand why Kenzi isn't more pissed off though. She's too good for Bo, I'm thinking. I mean, it's one thing for Bo not to want Dyson or Lauren around because it seems based on what she was hearing in her head at the beginning of the episode, that both of them were arguing with her pretty hard. Of course they're going to be angry and confused! Hearing her say, "would you just trust me?" was cake. I mean, really! I get that Bo would want to help the Rainer that we saw in the flashback scenes, because he's exactly the type of person she would want to help. But the "destiny" thing? WTF? Although, didn't she tell Kenzi a story about her crying over a dead butterfly when she was a kid?
The case of the week was OK. It looked good. And Kenzi got to dress up, so that was cool. Didn't appreciate the bit where Lauren said something about the pearl being salt and Dyson asking what she meant and she got snippy about the meaning of what she said. WTF? I mean, just WTF?
I think the had was Aife's. It looked like a woman's hand. But it's bandaged. So, I think Trick did put her in his cellar, which would make it possible for her to get her hands on the seed and I don't think she's in that great of shape so... the bandages also sorta make sense...? I mean, I can't think of who else it would be. So she swallows the seed, absorbs all the power of the Una Mens and tadah, big bad number three.
160. TheUberFan
Tamsin's absence is because she's "recovering." Recovering from what, exactly? Someone on Twitter just said something about her recovering from her memories and touching the blood. But that's lame if true.

Still mentally processing what I saw. lol
161. nypinta
I'm surprised they even bothered to mention Tamsin, actually. They didn't bother saying where Hale was. But there was no room for either of them in this episode. Nor Trick, until the end.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
162. Kiersten
I'm not entirely convinced she's been whammied or is under Rainer's control. I think she's continuing to be a self-centered brat and that she is and always has been fickle and easily distracted by new things/people over the people who stand by her through everything. I do think Rainer has worked a game on her but good and, as usual, she's bought into it and then let the Una Mens push her buttons to the point that she comittted murder. We may yet see Bo become the third big bad of the season.

If she is being influenced, then it has something to do with the butterfly, which was majorly not explained, as it was then that she did a full turnaround. Also, where does her rejection of the crown with Isabeau inscribed on the inside come into play in that flashback? At what point was she wearing the white gown we saw her in when she first woke on the train and in the flashbacks she's had before now. Even though Rainer can't remember his own past and isn't the instigator of the memory curse on Dyson, Kenzi and the rest (he said at the beginning that memory curses weren't his thing) he still knew about it and worse, Bo knew about it and allowed it to continue until she was ready to leave the train so she could bang Rainer for a few more metaphysical stops? What the hell, woman?!

I hate that the show has dumped in someone new as Bo's "destiny" and made him her lover. They absolutely could've had much the same storyline between Bo and Rainer without making them lovers as Bo has repeatedly put her life on the line to help/save people she's only just met. Especially after she and Dyson talked about the new level of intimacy they'd reached after the memory walk and then last episodes "I love you both" nonsense, we're supposed to buy that the minute Rainer touches her hand, she suddenly became all about him to the point that she signed a contract with the Dark? Please. All this all does is make Bo look fickle and less and less like someone either Kenzi or Doctor Lauren or Dyson or Trick should bother to give a shit about when she clearly can't be bothered to care about them. If there's one thing this show has done successfully this season, it's that it's manage to make a majority of the fans hate Bo.

I think Trick, power mad as he was back then, did have a reason to fear Rainer. The Keeper certainly knows more about Rainer's power and tendencies and definitely about Bo's father as the "spawn of evil" cracck was not about Aoife. Also, Rainer wasnt the one who brought Bo onto the train and it sounded as though someone had been bringing women onto the train for him all these years. Whether it was in an effort to find his destiny or just to ease the urge is unclear, but Bo definitely wasn't the first one to suddenly show up. It wasn't until she touched the butterfly that Rainer got all "you're the one" about it and then he still tried to send her away, but that was while he still didnt remember who he was or his power or why he'd been cursed to the train. I do like that Bo promises to kill him if he turns out to be a monster. Foreshadow much?

Also, what is Tamsin recovering from? The Japanese box induced flashbacks from last episode?

As for the hand reaching for the origin seed at the end? I think it might be Aoife.
Nadine Robb
163. cmm
You know I had a thought. What if the hand as you said was Aoife's. What if Bo's rescuing of Rainer was a plot put into motion by her mother? It is possible that way back then Aoife and Rainer were partners. If I remember my LG history Aoife rebelled and tried to destroy the whole Light Fae/Dark Fae distinctions. It is possible that maybe after she failed she realized the best way to achieve what she set out to do was to partner with Rainer. We know that Bo was taken by her mother as a child and raised in the human world. I think Aoife hadn't meant for her to grow up in that world rather, she put her there temporarily with the intentions of returning after she outran her enemies. Only she never got the chance because she was captured.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
164. Kiersten
@nypita - I just wrote the exact same thing about Aoife but somehow it got cut off my comment. Yes, imprisoned beneath The Dal after attacking Trick, escaped, stole the seed, went into hiding to heal, which didnt work because there's no one down there she can succubus to get the healing chi and now, presto, the seed has power. The only wrinkle is how she would've known about the seed in the first place.

Yes, Bo trusted Dyson a lot from the first meeting, but he also helped her a lot when she didnt expect it and she sucked some of his chi soon after they met, which usually gives her a sense of the person's soul. None of that happened with Rainer and she had a lot more reasons to distrust him than anything else. Notice, when he asked if she trusted him, she didn't answer.

I did the same thing over DL's sneering at Dyson about the salt and the eye roll over the flowers. STFU already, lady. What is all this "us" shit anyway with Dyson. How can there be any us that involves DL when she's repeatedly rejected Bo? I did appreciate that they addressed what DL was doing with Kenzi and Dyson given that she's supposed to be with the Dark. For sure I was wondering that too. Also wonder if that's going to come around and bite her soon. I live in hope.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
165. Kiersten
@cmm - I wondered that too tonight, whether Aoife could've been in league with Rainer back in the day. It does look as though Trick's banishment of Rainer happened after Isabeau had died and Aoife had been given over to the Dark. Alternatively, it couldve been the rebellion Aoife was involved in when Trick tried to end the Fae War in the first place, which would explain Trick's venom for Rainer since he would've been somewhat responsible for Aoife's defection and the choices Trick had to make in the wake of that. Then Aoife gets handed over to the Dark King who centuries later gets Aoife pregnant. However its arranged, it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out Aoife and Rainer were linked one way or another. Actually, it'd be pretty awesome.

Question: Trick isn't the one who banished Rainer to the train as memory tricks and Death Trains aren't his bag. His curse was to write Rainer out of history, but Rainer also got his memory wiped and that's not a Trick thing and neither is the Death Train. Are we assuming Rainer was put on the train by Bo's father?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
166. Kiersten
I do like that we are FINALLY getting somewhere with this episode. I think a lot of it still doesnt track or make sense and I think ultimately they've made Bo out to be a real first-class neglectful, fickle, self-centered, easily manipulated bitch, but I'm keen to see what happens next.
Carmen Pinzon
167. bungluna
But why would Bo's father help Aoife's partner in crime? And what's that got to do with Trick bargaining with Tamsin to leave Rainer's soul behind instead of taking it to wherever she's supposed to take souls?

If Rainer's power is to foresee his opponent's moves in battle, maybe he and Aoife saw what was coming onto them and made plans accordingly. Aoife went nuts in the meantime but eventually managed to get preggers, give birth, steal and hide the child and run away free.

Meantime, Rainer is trapped on the death vehicle and waiting for the 'child' he needs to save him?

It just doesn't play for me any way.
169. TheUberFan
Hey @Kiersten... I have a prezzie for you! Linkie:
170. TheUberFan
Hey @Kiersten... I have a prezzie for you! Linkie:
171. TheUberFan
Actually my impression was that Rainer was banished much earlier. Trick is made to look younger in those flashbacks as opposed to when he was in his castle with Ysabeau. It feels like by that time, he was settled and running the war from his castle, and then when Ysabeau died, he signed the blood laws and forced the peace and ended the war.

But I have no other frame of reference other than Trick's hair and the setting. lol
Nadine Robb
172. cmm
@Bungluna I don't think Bo's father did help Rainer or at least not intentionally anyway. I have the feeling him being imprissoned on the plane was her fathers doing. But Bo's meeting him on the train was unplanned. But, If we take into account Rainer arranged for her to become trapped there. It would suggest that this was planned by Rainer. He would know about Bo because everyone has heard of the unaligned succubus. That scene tonight where he meets her and has dinner could of been an act. Also Tricks bargain with Tasmin was to curse Rainer. I don't think it had anything to do with Bo's father. Bo's father isn't someone Trick would work with at all. He seemed to be uber dark and not someone Trick trusted. It is possible that even in death Rainer is very powerful and that's the reason he was banished to the train.
174. TheUberFan
Not unless it was regenerated. Acacia lost her right hand. lol
Kiersten Hallie Krum
175. Kiersten
@bungluna - there's nothing at all here that plays well in every way. Not yet and maybe not ever.

It seems as though all of this has been not about Rainer or Bo's father (who we can no longer call The Wanderer, I guess, although Rainer has not explicitedly said he is The Wanderer, only that he hates the song and Bo is not to call him by that moniker) but rather about the Una Mens, which, to be fair, is how the season started even in the pre-season webisodes.

Consider how long they've been around (forever) and that once they tried to make the Blood King part of the band only for him to trick them (heh). Aoife could've learned of how the origin seed relates to the Una Mens when it was offered to her father. This could all be one long con from that moment to consolidate the totality of the Una Mens' power into that origin seed for that mystery person to then consume and rule over everyone. If Aoife and Rainer are/were in league, his ability to foresee (and we've no idea how far into the future that ability can reach) perhaps showed him this eventuality or at least the possibility of it. They could've planned all this then but then it got derailed (heh) by Trick when he wiped Rainer from history and traded Aoife to the Dark King. Maybe Rainer even rebelled because Trick gave Aoife over in the first place. It would also explain also Aoife's willingness to blow up the Light and Dark Fae elders in season one - how better to draw the attention of the ultimate Fae police and get them to come to the new colony so that she could kill them too?

And let's not forget the Hellskor are still out there somewhere...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
176. Kiersten
@cmm - except Bo and Rainer agree to a plan that involved Bo leaving the train and forgetting him. But when Bo awoke and confronted the maid, train shook with a man's howls of rage and the maid said how "he" was not going to be happy that Bo was awake. And then whenever Dyson said Bo's name on the train, the howls sounded again. Yeah, it could be Rainer was playing Bo, but the show has already made things confusing enough and has promised that information about Bo's father will be revealed this season and it's clear now that Rainer is not Bo's father so that means someone else is at play here. And Tamsin knows Rainer from the flashback with Trick but then centuries later was hired by an evil Fae who frightens her to find and retrieve Bo, a man who was clearly not Rainer. It's definitely inconclusive at this point, but I think Bo's father is also definitely involved with all the train business one way or another too.
177. Stacymd2
This epi must be very confusing. Everything I've read thus far is people trying to figure out the timeline and Bo/Rainer stuff.

So, thumbs up or down?
178. TheUberFan
Actually we don't know when Tamsin was hired by the evil fae...that could have been before Rainer was stricken from memory.

As for the memory of Rainer, Tamsin didn't see him...she only heard his name by Trick, who struck him from history and thus Tamsin wouldn't have even remembered that until she touched Trick's blood.

Also...of confusing note... how did the Una Mens know who Rainer was (remember they looked his name up in the records and were distressed by it with, "No, not again" or some such thing). That was from Let the Dark Times Roll...and if he was stricken from memory and history, there should have been no way for them to know.

Another thought...we know what Rainer's powers are but not what type of fae he is. And remember he hand glowed her. So that's got to be in play here too.
Maria Payne
179. Georgiana2494
I have a feeling I'm going to wish I licked Choga before watching this episode!
180. TheUberFan
@Stacymd2 they are?

I thought it was pretty clear. Present day Bo at the beginning of the episode had just gotten back from killing the Una Mens. Then we see her in a robe...and still distressed by what happened. Did we do the right thing? I don't want to tell my friends about this yet, etc.

Then we see what happened while she was on the train.

Then back to just a little after she brought Rainer back...where she and Rainer go and kill the Una Mens...and then back to the robe (post killing) where Trick warns her not to kill the Una Mens and promise not to...but that ship has sailed.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
181. Kiersten
No one's trying to figure out the timeline of the episode, or at least not that I've seen. That's quite clear. The question is the timeline of what happened when with Rainer and Trick and Tamsin and the Una Mens and all the ancient history back stories who are all now using Bo in one way or another to get resolution.
Nadine Robb
182. cmm
The hand glowy thing is why I think he is controlling her. They deliberately kept that scene out of today's episode. I get that Bo has selfish tendancies but today was extreme.

@Kiersten I thought about that scene too when she woke up. But, for all we know it was one of the clues she left to make sure she got off the train and returned? Either way Rainer is definately a lot more than he makes out to be. There is something not quite right with him.
183. TheUberFan
Also I am bummed that she really did join the dark for something as lame as having a reason to go back to the train and least she did it thinking she could get out of it.

The thing is though...she doesn't really know him. She knows the "train" him. And she even admitted on the train that if he was a monster, she'd have to kill him.

So that's a heck of a lot of immersion in things you might not get out of for someone who might not be worth it in the end, Bo.
184. TheUberFan
BTW...I actually really enjoyed this episode. I'm going to have to rewatch it...but I would have to rate this one on the positive scale...rather than the suck-o-meter even though my fave wasn't in it.
Carmen Pinzon
185. bungluna
So skipping important scenes makes viewers want to stay to the end of the episode? This woman's got to go!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
186. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic - I liked a lot of it too. I've like this season on a whole and it's without question a vast improvement on the last.
187. TheUberFan
Haha. I just noticed all the gals in the office pool were checking Dyson out as he rolled his cart past them.
188. TheUberFan
Mmm. I actually really enjoyed Season 3. Probably because I love the snarky smart ass that is Tamsin so I was able to block out stuff I didn't like.

This season...I think on a whole I like it but there are things, like the overt triangle obsession, that make me want to spork my eyes out...and of course the distinct lack of valkyrie awesomeness.

But perhaps the Rainer arc hails the end of the overt Triangle and has Bo considering life outside her binary non-dilemma.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
189. Kiersten
I caught the office ladies checking out Dyson on first pass. Made me laugh. Good taste.

I hated season three with only a few exceptions here and there. Had I not the recaps to write for it, I wouldve stopped watching after the season premiere and possibly picked through it later
190. TheUberFan
In rewatching Season 3, it was amazing to note how early on, the show was making it very clear that Bo and Lauren are just totally incompatible. I found it striking, even.

And the only episode I really couldn't stand was The Ceremony. I thought the whole thing sucked and never understood it. lol

Even Caged Fae was fun for me because it felt campy and corny and that made up for the ridiculousness of some of it. Plus Kenzi was a friggin' hoot in it.
Susan White
191. whiskeywhite
I knew that reading what you folks have to say would make this episode more interesting than I found it to be. Let me say right away that the mermaid case was BORING. EA said one time that whenever the writers were stumped, she would suggest mermaids. So this episode felt like they had the framework of important stuff they wanted to do -- the relationship between Bo and Rainer and what they do together -- but then needed a case as content filler for the episode. Voilà mermaids. If anyone can suggest any redeeming virtue whatsoever for the mermaids, other than busy work for Kenzi, Dyson and Lauren after Bo left them, please do offer it.

I did very much enjoy learning what happened on the train before Bo fell asleep and forgot. And -- warning, incoming shallowness -- watching Bo play cuddly with so very pretty Kyle Schmid was pleasant. (Leaving aside the relationship ramifications). As you have already discussed, why that hook-up happened is unclear. The usual warm light that we see when Bo succu-enthrals someone seemed to go both ways when Rainer touched her. Or did he alone "hand glow" her as others have suggested thus putting her under some spell? We'll see.

Then it suddenly got exciting at the very end. The Una Mens get offed, which is satisfying until Trick rushes in with the "Una Mens must not be killed warning". Oopsie. The seed gathers power and then is grabbed. Great ending. Interesting speculation from y'all about who grabs it.

My head is spinning with all the speculation about the relationships among Bo, Rainer, Bo's father, Trick, Aife, etc. Sorry to be boring, but I think I'll just wait and see.

Thanks, @UberFaenatic, for the link to the EA interview. TVGuide got it right when they labelled this episode "light". Too kind. Yay that "love birds" Kenzi and Hale will be back next episode and that it will be a "Kenzi-heavy episode". Yay again that Acacia is back as well as Tamsin. All good. I just pray that they will make a better episode with all those good ingredients.

I will watch for the office workers clocking Dyson on the re-watch.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
192. Kiersten
And yet for all that they've made Bo and Doctor Lauren's incompatibility clear on multiple occasions, they constantly maintain the fallacy of a thus defunct triangle to mind-boggling lengths.

While it was confusing and was deliberately constructed to be so as it was a dream state for Bo and Dyson by extension, I loved Ceremony as it was one of the few times we got to see Bo and Dyson's love for one another without qualification. Him wrecking the marriage/baby fantasy when he realizes it's false and worse is hurting Bo and then sacrificing himself by making her kill him, her Hand, in order to be able to escape. Her in Bo's refusal to leave Dyson behind no matter the consequences and then being so destroyed by his death that she goes all bad Galadrial and takes chi from Kenzi, Trick, and Doctor Lauren (and Stella) for the first time in order to resurrect him. Plus, bonus moment of Doctor Lauren's shocked if silent recognition of the same. It's no accident that she broke up with Bo in the next episode. And, of course, Doctor Dyson. Yeah, love that episode.
193. TheUberFan
I do think that seeing Bo chi suck everyone to save Dyson was another straw for Lauren in a long list of straws. And I do like that we got Kenzi and Bo at the start of the episode, and at the end of it. And I did like seeing pretend Bo and pretend Dyson...and that Dyson was willing to sacrifice himself for Bo. But the rest of it... not my cup o' java. lol
194. TheUberFan
Oh and regarding Waves....I have to believe that Bo's cutting everyone off and her reluctance to reconnect have to mean something.

As does the fact that when Rainer asked her if she trusted him, she didn't answer.

I think somewhere inside Bo knows something is wrong...but she just doesn't know what.

What will be interesting is when Tamsin sees Rainer and I think confirms he is not the one who hired her centuries/millennia ago.
Carmen Pinzon
196. bungluna
I'm trying to figure out how they can do an episode of Kenzie past + Kenzie/Hale AND do a Tamsin with Acacia back in town AND do justice to it all. These writers can't manage ONE plot per episode, never mind two important ones at once.
197. nypinta
I don't think what Aife did was a rebellion to end the Light and Dark. She just went after the Dark because her mother was killed and she couldn't abide by the newly written laws and let it go without taking revenge. That is why Trick had to hand her over. So I don't think she and Rainer were partners in any way.
I also think that when Trick wrote Rainer out of history, it also took Rainer's memory of himself. Except for what he did to be cursed so. And I think Bo trused him because it became clear to her that he wasn't the one that abducted her and that he was trapped as well. Plus she felt sympathy and empathy for him because he didn't know who or even what he was, a situation to which she could greatly related. Then finally he said the magic words: he had been trying to end the divide between the Light and Dark. A cause close to Bo's heart, because she hates the arbitrary rules that the fae follow and would love to see them gone as well. So now she's on a train with someone with her value system that is in trouble and is hot. What is a girl to do! Oh. Right. Him. And I'm not as surprised that she fell for him while dropping Lauren and Dyson from her mind since she isn't with either. And she really wasn't when she first got on the train. Lauren had just broken up with her and the last time she saw her Lauren was ditching the fae for good. She and Dyson were on good terms but were no way in a relationship, she she moved on with this new fella, in a place where time moved differently and she could relax because they were completely isolated. The fact that she knew about them all being under a memory spell is concerning. Because he made it sound like it was part of their plan that when Kenzi found the compass and ended the spell that Bo would the be forced to leave the train. And when she comes back, having all of that rush back is going to over ride whatever 'love triangle' stuff she was just spouting. Especially since it was nonsense anyhow.
I do think she suspects something is wrong, which is why she hasn't reconnected with them, but it sounds like they weren't exactly in a listening mood by the voices she was hearing in her bathroom.
I'm more upset on behalf of Kenzi then I am Lauren or Dyson. Because again Kenzi has had issues with being left behind and Bo just keeps doing it to her.
I think the memories that Ianka provoked were planted to make Bo want to get back on the train, including her freaking out over the crown, and then later seeing the hand in her memory and getting upset. Or they were props he planted in her room so that when Kenzi boke the compass and she woke up she saw the crown, flipped, then looked in the mirror and saw the hand... and then the maid comes in and we see the rest in the first episode we see Bo jump off the train.
The case was OK since even Kenzi admitted it was just busy work to make them forget that Bo was ignoring all of them. So I didn't mind it being fluff. But it would have been just as easy for all of them to keep themselves busy with things like Dyson training Kenzi and just how he's doing that and what it is she's learning to do anyhow. And Lauren back at her place (which I'm guessing they don't actually have because of budget) or at Trick's bar giving him an earful. How much did Trick tell them?
But I think the fact that Tamsin could recall who hired her to find Bo means that it wasn't Rainer. I still think that the train itself is alive.
And like I asked before, didn't Bo tell Kenzi a story about crying over a butterfly when she was a kid? I think maybe someone put a spell on her even back then that the butterfly would be a key that would trigger it or something and Rainer simply knows about it. They seem to be portraying Bo as some kind of prophecy girl now. The one to end the Light and Dark. Blah blah blah.
Susan White
198. whiskeywhite
@SuzyM, did you read the transcript of the mid-season conference call (see #66 above)? Kris says, in answer to a question about his backstory, that he would like to explore the hierarchy in the world of shifters. Then he says:
You know, there was a fan who wrote some lovely fan fiction exploring it and she brought up some pretty cool ideas about, you know, the godmother werewolf or the godmother shifter. You know, just a different powers.
That's you, girl. Gotta be. Nice.
Suzanne Metaxas
199. SuzyM
@whiskeywhite Yes I did see it :) can't tell you how happy it made me! I think I'm still walking on air :D did you like the latest chapter in the newsletter?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
200. Kiersten
The new discussion post for 4.10 Waves is here:
201. laurenlewisfan
In response to your comment Kiersten "Her in Bo's refusal to leave Dyson behind no matter the consequences and then being so destroyed by his death that she goes all bad Galadrial and takes chi from Kenzi, Trick, and Doctor Lauren (and Stella) for the first time in order to resurrect him."
Bo would have done that for any one of them...that's just the way she is!
Susan White
202. whiskeywhite
I'm so glad for you @SuzyM. And yes, I did like the most recent chapter. Didn't quite have the "jutting manhood" panache of the previous chapter :-) but those who would like to see the Norn get her just deserts should definitely read Chap. 6 of "Season of the Wolf" in the "Wolf Bites" newsletter at
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