Dec 9 2013 11:42am

Lost Girl Season 4, Episode 5 Discussion: Dancing in the Dark

Tamsin and Kenzi in Lost Girl 4x05, Let the Dark Times RollHere's the episode description for Lost Girl Season 4, episode 5, “Let the Dark Times Roll”:

Bo's quest for answers leads the gang to a Dark Fae party, with a dangerous guest list. Meanwhile, Trick is summoned to appear before the Una Mens.

So—did you like the dance-off? Miss Dyson? Enjoy Tamsin and Kenzi's interaction? What do you think of Vex's backstory? And how do you think the Lauren storyline will play out? Let the discussion begin...

Note: This is an episode discussion post, so there will of course be MAJOR SPOILERS for the episode.

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C. H.
1. SmurfFae
Another great episode. The story continues to move forward, high points this week:
-Bo reaffirming her (troubled) friendship with Vex
-Trick dealing with the Una Mens, revealing their shared past
-Kenzie and Tamsin bringing glamour to the Dark. Dance dance party!
-More reveals about the Wanderer

As expected a lot of people didn't like the Bo/Lauren-reunion, but I think it was in continuity from season 3:
At the end of last season Bo and DL were still pining over each other (from afar) - besides DL knowing rationally, that they were incompatible. DL's first instinct after having achieved scientific success at Taft's lab, was to call her in 'Hail Hale'. And Bo had never gotten over the break (up).

Now they are exactly were they left: Bo still pining, DL (in her head) ready to move on (but also still emotionally invested).

I was also bothered by DL's lines ("When the Una Mens started killing humans and I ran, the Light never bothered to come looking for me.") which indicated:
-She didn't take responsibility for the killing of the claimed humans.
(But that could be explained by her still not knowing about the reasons which started the human-hunting: Her poison in 'Hail Hale'.)
-She being bothered by the light fae not looking for her after she ran away from them ...? That sounds like they were playing hide and seek … but at the start of season 4 she was genuinely afraid of being found ... and she was already a month in hiding before the Una Mens arrived in fae-town and humans were killed by Light and Dark alike …
(But that could be explained, by her being out of touch for a month and hearing of the Una Mens from Kenzie/Dyson on the phone.)

Shes's obviously not being very rational about her deal with the Dark, but making bad decisions – because she doesn't have the full information about her contracting party - is consistent behaviour for DL.
I guess how DL gets along with Evony depends on Bo: If Bo pisses of the Morrigan she'll probably yank DL's chain. But since Bo and Evony both dislike the Una Mens there's the potential for a (prbably short-lived) cooperation between the two.

Bo is drugged and full of self-delusions over DL, when she gives her BoLo-speach to Vex. The fact, that Bo is pretty immature in relationships is nothing new.
2. nypinta
I think I'm having a hard time accepting this Lauren that's decided the hell with it I'm going with who can offer me the most especially since in the last episode she finally comes to understand that the "spybang" was a really crappy thing to do. I was hoping this new Lauren would finally start owning her shit, not just in making decisions for herself and what makes her happy, but own responsibility for her actions as well. Her reasoning in this episode is a major step backwards after the last one.

Via her newly introduced backstory, she had an ideal and trusted her brother. OK. I can understand her running after that went horribly wrong even though she clearly feels guilty for what happened. But she doesn't feel responsible. She's not accepting that she is partly responsible for what happened, or she would have turned herself in. We can speculate that by joining the Light she was accepting their protection from her past, but we don't know that the Light had any clue who she really was. It would be nice to know one way or the other if part of the deal was she work for them and in return she gets resources to heal Nadia as well as them burying her past. Because that puts a different spin on her servitude to the fae if that is the case. And it seems that although she might feel some guilt for the state of the fae now and the claimed humans, she clearly isn't accepting responsibility for that either. And that's also disappointing. I don't need her prostrate before the fae or Bo, but at least acknowledge that her situation is of her own making and she is making the best of it.

That seems to be the major difference between her and Dyson. She never accepts that anything is her fault where as he seems to accpet the fault for things even when they aren't.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
3. Kiersten
That seems to be the major difference between her and Dyson. She never accepts that anything is her fault where as he seems to accpet the fault for things even when they aren't.

Ooh. That's a great insight. I too have trouble with the fact that even after DL appears to finally accept her role and fault in the spybang, right away she's walking her way back from taking responsibility for her actions. Now it's the Light Fae who didn't come looking for her when the whole reason she ran in the first place was b/c of what she'd done to the Fae, albeit unknowingly, while with Taft.

After her brother used her bombs - and really, if you're making bombs, you gotta know there's the risk of people dying - you'd think she'd learn, but she doesn't and then when the pattern keeps happening, she continues not to take responsibility or own any of her shit. She really works it all around to being everyone else but poor, persecuted, manipulated, too-trusting Doctor Lauren. If she really is taking charge of her life, the first step is to take responsibility for your actions and the harm they've caused, not whine about how no one looked for you (which isn't even true, BTW).

"I'm not angry...with you," she tells Bo. Well who the hell *are* you angry with, doc? Because everyone else out there has been victimized by you over the last two seasons in one way or another.
Nadine Robb
4. cmm
Everyone who she victimizes has had a lobotomy, I am absolutely convinced of this. The writers have got see by now that the character is flawed. Even more so than some of the messed up ones like Vex and Evony, at least they own their crap. I really don't understand how they can continue to write her this way. What's really sad is that Bo will never be allowed to be the person she is away from that doctor until they rectify the situation.
5. nypinta
@cmm Agreed. But also, one of the things about Bo was that she was supposed to make the people around her better by her example of not giving in and her heart and blah blah blah. She made Dyson question his adherence to the rules and see humans as more, she got Trick involved in helping others, and she was supposed to (I think) show Lauren not to accept servitude as something she deserved, no matter why. For a while it seemed that Lauren was being depicted as one with a martyr complex, constantly sacrificing of herself for loved ones. That is someone I can see Bo admiring. But now they've walked back on that and made her someone who just runs from one bad situation to the next while paying lip service to attonment. I would have been OK with Lauren growing to stand up for herself more, as they seem to think this Lauren is. I would even have been OK if they got back together despite what happened in S3 because Lauren had a change of heart and thought trying again was worth it. It actually would have made sense to me. But Lauren accepting a place with the Dark even knowing how they are makes no sense. Or rather, the way she accpted the position... and thinks that she actually has a right to still be angry with the Light. She walked away from them. I understand why she was upset last season. Her and Kenzi put a lot on the line to save all of the fae and were treated like crap afterwards. So she left. I was glad she finally made a decision for herself, actually. But after that, why would they go get her to protect her when the shit hit the fan? Is she mad on Kenzi's behalf that no one stepped up to shield her as well? Because no one came for Kenzi either. There was no Ash. The Una Mens would have taken her from anyone that tried to hide her. Where were the Light supposed to keep her to protect her? Dyson telling her to stay away was the safest course, and she better not be angry with him.

As for Bo being dark... I wonder if once someone is declared, it has an effect on ones personality. I wonder if that is all that is different about her, that she's alligned now. And the name is so similar to the Bounty Hunter that it'd be a hoot if his original encounter with Bo and the gang was actually just his way of sizing her up. That Rainer from the bar is The Wanderer, the Kaiser Soze of the fae.
6. nypinta
*sigh* I meant "She and Kenzi" not "Her and Kenzi". FFS.

Also, if they are bringing back old sources, like Trick calling up Mae Ling, then why don't they get the Kieran that went into Dyson's memory to go into Bo's? But it's about time they reused some of the guest characters.

And I'll restate here, just in case it gets missed, that I think Aife is the logical choice to swallow the seed that Trick refused to and take his place as the 6th fae of the Una Mens. I can see her making that choice because it would be the only way to take away all her pain.

And Vex's hand was turning to stone, right? So I think that's what the Una Mens do. Slowly turn whomever they decide deserves it into stone. Maybe they get turned into gargoyles and spend eternity as their servants.
Nadine Robb
7. cmm
@nypita I'm wondering if once the wanderer is dead if Bo's allegience to the dark will dissappear along with him? I think that when Bo was on that train she was unconscious all of the time, I wouldnt' be surprised if one of the wanderers helpers used one of his aides to take Bo's hand and write her signature for her. Or that maybe he has an ability similar to Vex where he can control people? There is no way that Bo who has dug her heels in when it came to choosing a side would suddenly sign dark. Also the Una Mens I remember Trick saying that they lack emotion of any sort yet when that female saw Rainer's name she had an emotional reaction. So i'm begining to wonder IF they will do something near seasons end to undo Bo's allegience to the dark? I'm also thinking that by season's end there will be no Una Mens. I think Bo's purpose in the fae world is to distabilize it and get rid of what what Trick originally did to make a freer world. I'm not saying rules shouldn't exist but rather that the way they exist in this world now is not condusive both fae and humans. I think Bo's purpose is to bring both sides together.
8. Darthfaeder
OMG Kiersten that was funny thanks also for the update I appreciate the effort. " the hilton hovel has become a place for damaged and endangered Dark fae" LOLOLOLOL!!!!!! You are right that is a very hilarious thing!
Nusi Dekker
9. NusiD
I loved this episode...but the crucifying of DL while elevating the Morrigan to sainthood is disturbing to me.

The Morrigan has captured Lauren and Lauren is Evony's prisoner, make no mistake. It was the Morrigan herself who declared all claimed humans enemy of the Faedom, but Evony told Lauren that it was the Una Mens who was after humans and killing them, because Evony want to get rid of the Una Mens, they are cramping her style! I have no doubt in my mind that everything that DL is doing is being dictated by Evony. DL is under Evony's complete control. Evony can lie blatantly to to anyone and make them believe it. She fooled Bo into believing that it was Vex who made her into a Dark Fae and it turned out that Vex had nothing to do with Bo's conversion.

I see that Crystal was at the party as part of the "human buffet" meant for Bo. It seemed that she was tranced somehow into prostituting herself to Bo, who saw what was happening and gave her the means to get away. I think it happened to be Crystal who Bo helped escape and not the others because Crystal was the only one who spoke to her.

I am a bit disturbed that Kenzi really, really loves hanging with Dark Fae and wants Bo to be Dark. Also that she's Tamsin's "mentor" and is teaching her how to kill. It's like, Tamsin is becoming Kenzi's "muscle" in the Fae world, now that Massimo is apparently gone. Though now Bruce is back as Kenzi's bodyguard. Now Kenzi can use Tamsin to do the killing for her and Bruce to protect her from bodily harm! So where does that leave Bo?

Interesting how the three Una Mens can suck their chi back from Bo all at once. Also that they really do want Kenzi and DL, but they want Bo to bring them in. I suppose it makes sense, then, that Kenzi is gathering all that extra protection and why Lauren is sticking to the Morrigan so hard. They both don't think that Bo can't protect them any more.

Good thing Bo bagged Vex's hand in ice to preserve it. Probably down the road Vex will get his hand reattached but at a big price for Bo.
10. nypinta
I'm not sure if you mean on the show or here but no one is elevating The Morrigan to sainthood. The woman is vile and evil. The fact that Lauren is under the impression that she is more free with the Dark than the Light is on her, because everyone knows how Evony works.

I didn't think that was Crystal at the party. I assumed they were wedding guests that the fae hadn't killed already. The bride and groom were under the table. So a wedding was supposed to be happening. But I think Kenzi takes advantage of a party because it's free eats, but she in no way wants Bo to be Dark.

I wasn't surprised that Bo went into the Una Mens guns blazing without finding out just how powerful they are. That's so her. But you'd think she'd learn by now to not do that. Why would she think that everyone was so afraid of them if they didn't have the juice to back it up? But Lauren didn't tell Bo that she was with the Morrigan because she didn't think Bo could protect her. She told Bo she's with the Dark because the Light didn't bother to come and find her. And now that Bo is back she wouldn't go with her because she "felt freer" with the Dark than she ever had before, she didn't mention Bo protecting her or her inability to do so, at all.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
11. Kiersten
I get that Evony is likely lying as usual about a lot of things, but I don't believe that DL is her prisoner. DL's entire subtext and body language was at peace with her decision and she scoffed at Bo's idea that she could protect her even if it meant claiming her i.e. owning her. That said, I can easily see the show walking back from that in order to restore DL and Bo together down the line by faux claiming that she was forced. DL's expression when Bo left her was sad, but not wistful, and there was also a tinge of pity for Bo as she fights to accept that DL has tried to dump her 3x now and finally joined the other side to make her unhappiness clear. Bo is Dark Fae at the moment, so she and DL could technically still be together until that's sorted, but DL didn't even offer that option, merely an emotionless pat on Bo's shoulder that she'd "see her around." That's cold, man. That's a woman who is done with her ex.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
12. Kiersten
@nypita - exactly. she didnt choose Dark b/c the Una Mens are scary, she chose it b/c she feels a freedom there she never did with the Light. She looked more settled and confident telling Bo about why she's chose the Dark than she has in 2 seasons. No twitching, no blinking, none of the subtle Doctor Lauren ticks that mean she's "conflicted". That's not a prisoner talking, that's an ally.
C. H.
13. SmurfFae
Bo has been rather selfish this season: Blaming Kenzie for extreme measures to survive, reducing Dyson as a recharger, giving Tamsin the stink-eye for what her previous incarnation did, assuming DL is over their irreconcilable differences ...
She's always had selfish and immature tendencies in previous seasons - all the while being a beacon of heroic virtues. She always managed to be a bit of a walking contradiction. But it kinda worked: She was always one for big heroic gestures, but being unexperienced in inter-personal relations. A side-effect of being a loner for 10 years, I guess.
But I guess, Bo is exceptionally selfish, hedonistic and fun-loving since her return as a Dark. Or, as she said last epsiode (4.04), when they returned from the Dal: "It's so much fun being bad."
Nusi Dekker
14. NusiD
Apparently, DL was not present when Evony crashed the wedding reception, had the bride and groom killed, set up the Dark Fae party using the human wedding party (and possibly Crystal) as a human buffet for Bo, and used a naked Bruce as a sushi table as punishment for not killing Kenzi. Evony brought Bo out of the party and away from the mansion where it was held, to meet DL walking up from the opposite direction. DL and Bo were put in a room together away from the party. Was Bo so taken in by DL that she forgot all about Kenzi, who not long ago was almost killed by Evony? And DL was so emotionless when Bo told her that Dyson was out of town looking for her, after DL called Dyson to say she wanted to come home so badly. I know, you all are saying that this is the REAL DL, even more evil than Evony herself. I will respectfully hold on to my opinion that DL is not herself.

When Trick becomes the Ash, Lauren will officially belong to him. I wonder how that will play out?
15. nypinta
Yeah, there's a duality to Bo, that she's great at the heroic stuff, because she sticks her nose in where it doesn't belong. (And it seems she always does without getting the full story...) And being emotionally immature after her years on the run. But it'd be nice if after 3 years there was some growth in both departments. She'd learn to do recon/research and that in relationships she can't have everything her way just cuz. But add into the mix of her time on the train and her being Dark now and it gets confusing trying to sort out what is her and what is the Wanderer's influence.
Nadine Robb
16. cmm
I see your point SmurfFae but Bo in this episode to me was very uncomfortable. Even when they pointed out that she was taking points from the dark, you could see how uncomfortable she was in doing it. I don't think she fits in with the dark fae at all. I've always seen Bo as more light fae than dark. Even when she's being sneaky. If she were truly dark as they all keep saying she'd of kicked Kenzi to the curb a long time ago and tortured that doctor because of her decision.

"DL's entire subtext and body language was at peace with her decision and
she scoffed at Bo's idea that she could protect her even if it meant
claiming her i.e. owning her. That said, I can easily see the show
walking back from that in order to restore DL and Bo together down the
line by faux claiming that she was forced."

I agree. As I said in the other post I think that they are writing it so that doctor (and she will always be that doctor to me) will need rescuing down the line. While I think it is her choice to stay with the dark, I still feel Evony is controlling her somehow. It makes no sense that she would just up and go with the dark. Also who is after that doctor? Sorry if this was answered, but i'm not sure how is after her? If it's Interpol or another organization surely they would of found her by now? When she was with the light fae she wrote articles, she went to conferences etc. Surely someone would have noticed her?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
17. Kiersten
I do not think that DL is more evil that Evony at all. I think that, as ZP has said several times herself in interviews and con panels, we are seeing a different side of DL in S4 that has come out due to her experiences and choices. It's the evolution of her character (finally!) and she's sincere about it and is absolutely herself when making those decisions. Not evil (yet), just taking a new path as the ones she tried with the Light Fae and with Bo have failed so badly.

I was wondering about how this aligns with her vows to The Ash of the Light Fae. Can The Morrigan just supplant that claim b/c Doctor Lauren agrees to the new terms? Or is there a loophole that, while there is no declared Ash, acting or otherwise, all "contracts" are up for grabs? Or is this just another wrinkle the writers forgot when they broke this part of the story? Either way, that is definitely going to have to be address.

I'm guessing there will have to be another duel to be her "master" as there was for Bruce (which would add Chekhov-like weight to that plot), and Trick will name Bo as his champion (or she'll volunteer) and PRESTO! All of Doctor Lauren's choices for herself and taking control of her life assertions will magically disappear so she and Bo can be together in toxicity. But that's just a guess...
18. nypinta
" all are saying that this is the REAL DL,
even more evil than Evony herself."
Where? Where was that said?
In the first season Bo tells Lauren that the Light are just as bad as the Dark when she was trying to get help for Luann and Lauren says the fact Bo would even say something like that means she clearly doesn't know anything about the fae world. Lauren knows who the Dark are. She doesn't need to be a witness to them murdering a wedding party just so they could take over the space. She knows that's who they are. But hey, they let her come and go as she pleases, so it's all good, right? Because the Light didn't come to rescue her.

Could Lauren be acting off? Perhaps, but I didn't see anything that indicated she was not being herself or that she was under the influence of anything other than her own hard look at a situation and finding a place where she gets the most of what she wants. It's the part where she blames other people for everything and doesn't accept any blame for it herself that it bothers me. Does that make her evil? No. And I never said that. But it makes her wrong. And it makes her look so unbelievably selfish. And is a waste of what could have been fantastic character growth and introduced a new conflict that made some sense.
19. nypinta
Ooh. That first sentence of mine came out meaner than I intended. So so sorry about that.
20. nypinta
(I'm at work, so I can post more. Sorry.) I do feel like I should mention that although I find what Lauren said to be competely crazy pants, Zoie Palmer did a great job in the episode. She looked fantastic and her expressions were subtle yet effective as she was trying to get through to Bo that they can't be together like they were, as they were earlier when she first saw Bo and when they were working a case together and she was clearly enjoying herself.

Same with RS in her scenes during the dance off as she was confroted with something way beyond what she was prepared for and she was trying to fake a confidence she clearly did not feel and her distress that she was tyring not to show when she looked to Kenzi for back up. I do hope that when she gets her full memories back she doesn't revert to attack first to cover for emotional vulnerability but takes to heart Kenzi's lessons of being who she wants, not who others tell her she should be.

And I said before but Bo and Evony snipping at each other was awesome. As was Kenzi being thrown by Evony's mean girl compliments. If anyone watched Angel, there is an epic back and forth between Cordelia and Lilah and Bo and Evony reminded me of that. Good stuff.

And who was it that the fae whose name I can't recall that went with Bo and Lauren on the case... who was she stabbing around the corner? And who cleans up after the Dark? How often has Dyson come across one of their sloppy kills? Because they don't seem to be to tidy about cleaning up their dirty work.
Nusi Dekker
21. NusiD
Here is an article (in Canadian TV Guide) where EA confirms that Rainer is the Wanderer's name.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
22. Kiersten
It's funny how when Dyson says something unpopular to Bo (and really, to some, when doesnt he?) he's held to his words like to a grid iron but when Doctor Lauren does it, there's always a reason she doesn't mean it or the poor dear was forced or she isn't quite herself or, or, or. So many excuses for Doctor Lauren; so little grace for Dyson.
Nadine Robb
23. cmm
Ita Kiersten it's very funny. The more they write for that couple the worse each character looks.
24. TheUberFan
I have an alternate opinion of what we saw with Bo.

Her behavior with Lauren is not an anomaly, given what we've seen of Bo. That's not to say that it should continue for very long, but one or two episodes of her acting like an idiot are perfectly in character.

Let's review her romantic history, which is a disaster area. She only experiences her first real grown up love with Dyson in Season 1.

She didn't even understand what she felt when he broke things off the first time and Kenzi had to walk her through the stages.

In Season 2, Dyson breaks it off with her and she tries for at least another episode or two to try to win him back, even threatening to force him to love her by enthralling him.

She's idealized Lauren in an unhealthy way but again, let's put this in context. Lauren is her first human lover who she didn't kill. Lauren knows about who and what she is and doesn't fear her. In fact, when Bo is beating herself up for Kyle, Lauren is there to reassure her again.

So I get why she's idealized her...but Lauren cannot withstand that kind of blind adoration.

But look at what's been going on with Bo. Starting with her Dawning, to Lauren dumping her and disappearing, to Dyson being fae-napped, to her fight with Tamsin, to being smoked away in the Dal... It's like she said to Kenzi...Everything in her life is confusing to her...and she never imagined her bestie would be a part of that confusion.

So she sees Lauren right after finding that necklace and I think Bo is grasping onto a lifeline. See? It's all good. No permanent injuries. Everything can go back to what it was. This one thing can make sense again.

So she ignores everything that happened with Lauren. Ignores the break up. Ignores Taft. Ignores her being with the Morrigan...because she needs one thing to make sense thing to not be crazy in the midst of her world being tossed around.

And let's not forget, for a chunk of this episode, she was drugged with a very strong hallucinagen, which took her off her rocker. lol

So I'll give her a break for now. Given Bo's past reactions to breakups, she is not acting out of character.

But if it continues for too many episodes, they'll do unheard of damage to her as a character.
Nusi Dekker
25. NusiD
It's rumored that the Bo/Dyson sex scene shown in the promo will be in the next episode. It'll be interesting to see how that works out. Is it just a rebound on Bo's part after she got rejected yet again by DL? Will this get Dyson in trouble with the Una Mens since they seem to know everything that's happening with Bo's immediate associates? It seems that the shit just seems to get deeper with each episode with not much being resolved.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
26. Kiersten
@NusiD - I was actually thinking last night that The Dal Dyson bang might be in next week's episode. EA mentioned in her post mortem that Dyson was back next week and it was going to be interesting to see how he reacts to the news that Bo is Dark for the moment while he is most assuredly Light Fae.

I too would wonder about it being a rebound for Bo...if she hadnt already renewed the sexcapades with Dyson while DL was yet AWOL. That pretty viserally took DL's ridiculous "No Dyson" rule off the table. For Bo at least, having one doesn't mean she can't have the other too, or at least it did up till DL dumped her again. It'll be interesting to see how Dyson responds once he knows all that's gone on while he was out searching for Doctor Lauren. Like, did anyone call him and let him know she'd been found?
27. TheUberFan
I was taken aback by Emily Andras' assertion that the "reunion" of Bo and Lauren was romantic.

Do Zoie and Anna have chemistry together? Sure. And that chemistry bounced off the screen as planned.

However, beyond the kissy moments, there was no romance whatsoever.

And I didn't see any indication that they "banged." Or are we to take that the 3 minutes they had together before they left with the scavenger fae, they banged in Evony's conference room?

Yeah...that's romantic. :S
Kiersten Hallie Krum
28. Kiersten
@UberFanatic - yeah, I was surprised by the claim that they were zipping up clothes post facto bang. And the whole romantic reunion aspect?? Where? Bo pounced and boom. Plus when Evony enters she yells "just scissor already" implying they havent yet and Bo says if they'd wanted an audience they wouldve asked, also implying they havent hit the main event yet. So I think there was groping but not really any banging on their part before they were whisked into Evony's shenanigans.

Plus, it's all overshadowed by the fact that everything is ignored. The last time they spoke to one another, DL said very painful things to Bo and meant every word but the next time they see one another she's light by a golden haol and they immediately bang away as though nothing happened? Gimme a break. Whole lotta self delusion in that sitch.
Nadine Robb
29. cmm
You know i'm begining to wonder if this is all in Bo's head and she's asleep. Would explain why the break up of last season is glossed over because Bo did say it was most definately over between that doctor and herself. Also explain why Kenzi and Dyson kissed, maybe part of her subconcious made that leap because it would make the out of character experience for that scene seem explainable. Also Dyson's reaction to wanting to find Lauren. He just comes across as too nice, I would like him to be a bit mean sometimes when it comes to her. I know this whole scenario is wishful thinking on my part.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
30. Kiersten
@cmm - that would be Bobby-in-the-shower level of jumping the shark and I don't think even this show would dare that. Not yet.
31. nypinta
I don't have a problem with the reunion between Bo and Lauren, really. Because all of it does fit in some way with how Bo is or what she is willing to ignore. It's up until the part where Lauren explains why she is with the Dark that I can not get past. If they had just changed her reasoning to something else, even just a little, I would have been AOK with everything else that happened in the episode. (Although I wouldn't describe what happened as "romantic" except in maybe each others minds.) But if Bo is depicted as a character that demands answers from everyone, and hates being lied to, and has even demanded information from her bestie Kenzi and later Dyson, I don't see why she was so fluffy bunnies and not once saying, "WTF, Lauren?" I know they kept getting interrupted so they didn't have time to "talk" but what Bo wanted was answers and to know why, while Lauren just wanted to reassert that they wouldn't work (while also placing blame for her situation on someone else). But she waited till after she got some sugar, didn't she? Ha. Kind of like how Bo is treating Dyson. Oooo. I hadn't thought of that.
Susan White
32. whiskeywhite
So, I took a bit of a break last week. But I was a good girl and conscientiously read every subsequent comment before posting -- all 267 of them!

All in all, I agree that the episode moved the plot along immensely and had many important and interesting elements. But I felt kind of blah throughout, or as you would say, "meh". I think that's because of all of the darkness and cruelty -- I'm coming to see of myself that I might as well have a big sticky slapped on my chest that says "I'm a wimpy Whiskey". Wedding guests being slaughtered for the wedding food (wasn't the woman in the garbage who the 'scavenger' was stabbing the (not quite) dead bride?), Vex chopping his hand off, Lauren signing up with the Dark, etc.

Just so I don't have to discuss Lauren again, how about some shallow? How cute was Bruce as the sushi table? And Kenzi delicately wiping crumbs off 'Brushi's' (hee) huge, bare, tatooed chest? (Who says I watch LG only to see Dyson shirtless!) Why did dear Bruce 'have' to have shirt on (other than to reveal the dead bride and groom)? Talk about humiliation -- Kenzi makes him wrap up in a table cloth? And when he does put on his shirt, he fiddles with it to ensure a delicious slice of chest is still showing.

I fear that we will not see dear Bruce again (though I hope I'm wrong). The last we see of him, Kenzi is giving him the pep talk about how he should go to Bora Bora for real and discover whether he can be more than a killer and protector, that he should "find his wings, and fly". And we see Tamsin listening thoughtfully to that.

I appreciated the return of the more conflicted, less cartoonish Vex and Bo concluding that he actually wanted the Happy Sunshine Gang to find him and help him. And his backstory. Being an (ex)archaeologist, I'm very big on backstory. Bigtime backstory. :-) Also enjoyed Bo describing him as "the brother you don't want" (by which I take her to mean a member of her faemily, not her actual (half)brother. Not convinced on that yet. But will wait and see).
Kiersten Hallie Krum
33. Kiersten
@whiskeywhite - I totally took Bo's brother comment to not actually be about blood family but that he was now part of her increasing brood. I like that Vex has evolved from the cartoon villain who giggles as a vampire kills himself to a complex character who is the last of his race and isn't as easily pinholed as expected but rather doesn't know how to ask and/or expect others to help him.

Loved all the Bruce and Tamsin and Kenzi stuff. Pure gold
Susan White
34. whiskeywhite
Welcome @ChibiHoshi! I really very much appreciated your comments on some folks' views on bisexuals. I can't resist quoting you here in full:
Some believe that bisexuality is a copout to try to stay "normal" or be accepted by family or society and hide your true homosexuality. Or an act of a hetero to rebel/be part of the "new gay fad" or not being raised with "proper" role models (or assume there was a past trauma or abuse) that causes one to act sexually on naturally platonic feelings of friendship love.
Bisexuality has been generally dismissed as just
curiosity/experimentation if you marry/settle down/fall in love and exhibit heterosexual manogamy and as denial/cowardice to fully come out if you marry/settle down/fall in love and exhibit homosexual manogamy.
I think that this does accurately describe the psychological explanations that are currently given.

However, what I find is largely forgotten now (or not known by younger people), which I remember clearly from being involved in the movement as an ally at the time, is that in the 1970s and 80s, saying that you were lesbian or gay was seen as taking a political stand by the LGBT* community (which was then largely a LG-only community). You were saying which side you were on. You were declaring yourself to be on the side of the oppressed and not with the oppressers, that you were a part of the lesbian/gay liberation movement. So to say that you were bisexual was interpreted as sitting on the fence politically, refusing to take a stand or join the struggle, and furthermore attempting to preserve political privilege by remaining associated, at least partly, with the oppressors. In short, a political betrayal of the movement. I would argue that the cultural influence of that time remains in the Doccubus fervor: 'for Bo to be a bisexual is a betrayal of lesbians'.

There was also a line of thought in the 80s, especially in the lesbian community, that lesbian relationships could be a choice (in contrast to the currently dominant "I was born that way" ideology). Adrienne Rich's landmark 1980 essay "Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence" essentially argued that to be a true feminist you had to be a lesbian because straight feminists were quite literally 'sleeping with the enemy'. Thus it was implied that straight women could switch their allegiance. The dominant themes were not hearts and flowers and certainly not monogamy forever (although by the late 80s that theme was developing, as we saw with Melanie and Lindsay in Queer as Folk).
Katherine Bloom
36. lsbloom
Guys, I need your advice. I'm pretty sure my opinion of Lauren is well known (am I overreaching?). Do I even want to watch this episode? Should I skip it and try to help out my blood pressure, day job is stressful enough.
Nadine Robb
37. cmm
"However, what I find is largely forgotten now (or not known by younger
people), which I remember clearly from being involved in the movement
as an ally at the time, is that in the 1970s and 80s, saying that you
were lesbian or gay was seen as taking a political stand by the LGBT*
community (which was then largely a LG-only community). You were saying
which side you were on. You were declaring yourself to be on the side
of the oppressed and not with the oppressers, that you were a part of
the lesbian/gay liberation movement. So to say that you were bisexual
was interpreted as sitting on the fence politically, refusing to take a
stand or join the struggle, and furthermore attempting to preserve
political privilege by remaining associated, at least partly, with the
oppressors. In short, a political betrayal of the movement."

I find that really sad because it shows that the LGBT community is no more tolerant than the hextrosexual community. I'm see how the bisexual angle can seen the in LGBT community but in LG world I just can't fathom why they would bisexuality as a betrayl. Bo is a succubus after all they by nature are sexual creatures. So it would be foolish to assume that she would just stick to lesbian relationships. Then again anything pertaining to that relationship doesn't follow a normal set of rules.

@Isbloom Just watch and skip over that couple lol! The rest of it is really good.
Susan White
38. whiskeywhite
@lsbloom, could you take Kenzi's advice: "take a chill pill, drink a brewsky"? :-) Not that I'm a fan of drinking to solve emotional problems. It would be sad to miss what is otherwise an interesting episode. But you know yourself best.
Nusi Dekker
39. NusiD
Just rewatched the episode and of course I missed some things the first time:

That blond "human buffet" sure looked like Crystal, but she was mute. What caused Bo to take pity on her and send her away, but not the other trapped humans? The fact that she was blond, and reminded Bo of DL?

At the end of the episode, the box that had the Una Mens seed in it was opened on the floor on a pile of rock salt with the seed gone. That means that someone has ingested it. But I'm not clear if the Una Mens wanted the Blood King to ingest the seed, or said that the Blood King stole the seed eons ago. And they didn't seem to know that Trick was the Blood King, they called him Fitzpatrick McCorrigan, his alias. That whole set of scenes was muddy. Guess I'll have to watch it several more times for it to make any sense.

Was Vex's hand in the ice bucket on top of Trick's bar (ew) giving Trick the "finger"?

That curved knife that Vex wanted to chop his hand off with, was it taken off the dead woman by that scavenger chick or did she already have it hidden on her person somewhere? I mean, was that a dead human (the bride?) from the Dark Fae party, moved there by one of Evony's minions?

Bo is supposed to be very smart, but she acted so stupid in this episode. Drove me nuts! BTW, there was no "zipping up" after the Bo/DL making out session...EA doesn't seem to know WTF is going on in episodes of her own show!
Carmen Pinzon
40. bungluna
I'm still mad at Bo for leaving Kenzie and BabyTam alone at a Dark Fae party.

Just when I think I'm gaining a modicum of respect for Lauren's character, the author go and make her freaking whinny and spineless!

I started disliking Bo in season 2. Season 3 was excruciating. Now, half-way through season 4, I'm coming to just plain hate Bo. She's mean to Kenzie when the latter is trying to be emotionally honest with her. She seems to be using Dyson as a charging bonner. She keeps tromping around not doing much of anything constructive. And now she's freaking glossing over WonderLauren's many transgressions?! Really?!

The argument that Bo is immature is good, but doesn't fully explain the mess the writers are making of her character, imo.
41. stacymd2
Hi Guys! I haven’t read any of the above comments yet so forgive me if I am repeating anything or asking questions you have already posed. 405…So where to begin…

What I loved:
The episode was fast paced and moves the overall arc along. The actors and sets were great.
The Una Mens were not pushed over by Bo. The big bad should not be easily defeated.
Bruce is back and covered in sushi. No dragon roll for you!
Rob Archer is smoking hot.
Tamsin’s dance duel of death. RS was so funny. She looked like she was having a blast.
Yay! Minority actors, finally! The Fae world in season three & the first half of season four was looking like the Star Trek, Stargate and Girls (HBO) worlds—whites only.
Trick/RH having a storyline and getting some backstory. I hope we learn more about Trick and the Great Fae War. I loved the mystery of the Blood King creating the laws, turning corrupt.
The scene between Vex & Bo where he tells her his backstory of how he is the last Mesmer, having to watch his mother, father and brother starve to death. PRA really sold that scene.
Vex cutting off his hand was intense. Did anyone else note that Vex slipped in that he had a lover in the past? I want to find out more about Vex.
Trick being the Ash is a good move on the writers’ part. If they wanted to, they could bring Vex into the fold by having him run the Dal.
The final scene between Bruce and Kenzi (with Tamsin listening) was sweet. Bruce and Kenzi have a loveable chemistry. (Hale where are you man!)
Kenzi seems to be coming into her own as a big sister/caretaker for Tamsin and now Bruce.
We finally get to know The Wanderer’s name, Rainer. (sp?)
Lauren’s glamor shots, slow-mo walk towards Bo. O.M.G, I literally busted out laughing. I couldn’t hate the scene because it was so corny. It was homage to every bad 80’s movie in existence.
The final scene between Trick and Bo at the Dal discussing their latest family drama was adorable. AS and RH should have more scenes together.

What I didn’t love:
No Dyson, Hale or Wanderer. The writers should have included that Hale was with Dyson out of town looking for Lauren. It looks as if Hale has disappeared.
Wardrobe: Tamsin’s striped 80s cut out top; Evony’s cheap looking, gold, grandma dress; & Bo’s blue I-don’t-even-know-what-to-call-it leather thing were revolting.
Bo leaves Kenzi and Tamsin alone at the Dark Fae party to chat up the Morrigan and sex up Lauren.
Fan wanking: It was plentiful & painfully obvious! Bo bringing up Lauren & their break-up in her scenes with Vex was out of place and didn’t fit. The dialog was clunky and ridiculous. Also, how would Vex know anything about B/L’s relationship? Vex has commented on the Dyson/Bo/Lauren triangle as if he is a close confidant and not a disliked prick.
The Morrigan slut shaming Vex, again. (It's only bad when males do it.)

What exactly did Kenzi do to be labeled a terrorist? The only humans that hurt the Fae was Taft (mastermind) and Lauren (accomplice/stooge).
Are the writer’s separating The Wanderer/Rainer & The Dark Fae Lord into two different people? It makes no sense that Trick would not know who he turned over his only child to.
So, Trick/Blood King became corrupt after turning over Aife and betrayed the Una Mens by not ingesting the seed to become one of them. The Una Mens want the Blood King as a member because his blood turns everything into unbreakable law. This is all very fascinating…Why didn’t they recognize Trick as the Blood King because he recognized the female Una Mens?
There were other rebels against Light and Dark! I hope Lost Girl explores this. Where are the former rebels now?
Why did Bo take Vex’s gross hand with her?
Who stole the seed? Vex? Una Mens? The Wanderer? The Grinch?
42. stacymd2
Lauren aka The Ugh!
Bo came off as dumb in this episode. Her clumsy Lauren/break-up dialog to Vex was aggravating, but it was a clear set up for the B/L scene at the end. Very soapy Lost Girl!

I was expecting B/L to make-out in this episode. Once again, I did not see or feel the “EPIC” chemistry between the two. Kenzi/Bruce, Tamsin/Kenzi, Bo/Vex had more spark in this episode.

Doccubus keeps saying that Lauren is atoning and standing up for herself? How exactly has she done this? If Lauren wanted to atone she would have turned herself in & dealt with federal prison, giving her victims' families justice. If Lauren was standing up for herself she would not be hiding behind the Dark Fae. Lauren ran away, again, from facing consequences. Telling Bo she will “see her around” is not standing up to Bo. Lauren was feeding Bo the savior crack she needs to fight to rescue her. This is no different than season two where Lauren got Bo to solve her “Nadia” problem for her.

I’ve said this before; Lauren is not a slave and has never been a slave. It’s funny how slave Lauren had time, before planning to run away with Taft, to buy her girlfriend jewelry. Do you think Lauren bought Nadia any “freedom to love” jewelry when they went on vacation in season two?

So, Lauren is choosing her gilded cage this time? What about when she recommitted to the Light? Or, when she stayed with the Light when Dyson told her, since there was no Ash, it was a good time to run? Or, how about when she ran from the Light to be in Taft’s cage? Lauren chose her cage at least three times before…

I’m sure Crystal played a part in Lauren’s decision to commit to Evony, but like in the scene with Bo at Taft’s office, Lauren acted to tranquil. Her words were to straight forward for some or all of what she was saying to be an act.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
43. Kiersten
@stacymd Kenzi was labeled a terrorist at the end of S3 when Evony manipulated Hale's Ash induction ceremony to eventually declare all Claimed Humans terrorists. She used the planted injection that Taft's henchman had used to sedate Dyson as evidence of DL's duplicity and reason why the humans had to be terrorists. We know Taft deliberately set DL up to make it look as though she had contributed to the Dysonnapping when at that time she wasn't yet aware (or subconsciously deluding herself) of what Taft was up to.

It does appeart that the Una Mens do not realize that Trick is The Blood King. I think Trick put Aoife in the cells under The Dal and she escaped (as she has done before) and took the seed and, like others have said, could possibly become the Una Mens addition in Trick's place. I'm unsure though because Inga Cardanel who plays Aoife has said 4.01 is her only episode this season, but we know how LG loves to play with misdirection.
44. nypinta
@NusiD I thought when Bo told the blonde to leave she told her to take her friends with her, meaning all the humans. Because then Evony gave Bo a hard time for dismissing the buffet. Was it Crystal? I really just assumed they were guests from the wedding that the fae didn't kill (yet). BTW, how do the Dark explain their actions of killing humans so indiscriminently when rule number one is not to let humans know fae exist? An entire wedding party getting killed can't be easy to cover up. (I'm on my lap top. No paragraph breaks again. Sorry.) I have the same question about the carrion fae and the knife. She seemed to act as if she had to retrieve the knife but the body she also uncovered seemed to still be alive, till she stabbed it a few more times with the knife. Maybe that was who had the knife before? And I'm a little confused by Kenzi's comment to Bo in the beginning when she said she was glad that Bo's love life was finally becoming less complicated. What did she mean by that? It was right after Bo mentioned Dyson going to find Lauren. Was Kenzi under the impression that the love triangle would become a permanent three way because Dyson and Lauren don't have animosity towards each other any more? And BTW, I would adore it if Kenzi went to Lauren with a "WTF?" speech about hurting Bo again. And I'm not the only one that really felt for Vex, right? He was snarky and sarcastic and wounded and tired. And I can't imagine what that was like for Paul Amos to have to be all of those things while AS is on a mattress on the floor being goofy and completely high. Hahahaha. Good stuff.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
45. Kiersten
@nypita - Kenzi was being sarcastic when she said that because she knows Bo and Dyson were banging but then Dyson goes off after DL mostly but not exclusively on her behalf. That's messed up. It works because its him and them and that's what they do when they're parenting the group, but Kenzi was actually pointing out how complicated Bo's love life continues to be.

I wonder what the conversation wouldve been like about Dyson had DL & Bo actually reconciled? Would Bo have gone back to DL's "No Dyson" rule? She didnt seem to take that into account anymore. Hmm.
Carmen Pinzon
46. bungluna
Part of my dislike of Lauren stems from the fact that the powers-that-be don't seem to know what the hell they want from her. She started out as a minor geek/human appendage. In S2 & 3 she was elevated into mayor star-crossed love interest. So many ret-cons of the character leave her very disjointed. It's a testament to Zoe Palmer's skills that WonderLauren even makes any kind of sense at all.

As of right now we have a person who:

1. Thought she was right enough to make bombs to drive her point home. I mean, terrorist do have that hollier-than-thou thing going for them.

2. Cut and ran when it went wrong, abandoning and placing the blame for the whole mess on her brother.

3. Ran off with her girlfriend to deepest Africa to do something(?) and got caught by the Light Fae 'cause she's super-smart WonderLauren.

4. Felt up a pow succubus, spybanged her and then developed a relationship with her.

5. Asked said succubus for help with the comma-girlfriend sitch, then assumed it was the nice Ash who'd thrown her ass in jail who actually helped and re-upped her servitude contract.

6. Asked her succu-bud to borrow the car to take gf on a vacation, then asked her to kill her possessed gf. Way to go!

7. Got snippy with a pseudo-acquaintance (Hale), cause he wouldn't let her do what she wanted. Left her succubus and the light behind to pursue a human life in science and had that backfire on her.

8. Ran way while calling home to whine about it. Got spy-banged and now declares she's dark and free!!!!!

Yes, Lauren as character makes perfect sense.
47. TheUberFan
I'm concerned that TPTB confuse sexual with romantic.

Bo has had a lot of sexual moments so far this season with both Dyson and Lauren...but it's like the difference between a romance novel and porn. lol

In Dyson's case, he's being treated like a fae dildo/battery charger.

In Lauren's case, she's being idealized into something she isn't so that Bo can continue to lie to herself.

Neither situation strike me as romantic even though all her sexy situations are, well, sexy.
48. nypinta
The most romantic moment on the show so far this season was when Bo was in the car with Dyson and they were just holding each other's hand, in my opinion.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
49. Kiersten
@nypita - YES. That tenderness has been long missing in this show, dare I say since S1. It's like when they used to touch foreheads to reassure one another they were each OK. It's always been unique to there bond, touching and deeply romantic in the truest of ways - a gentle manifestation of their love.
50. TheUberFan
Yeah I agree, @nypinta. IMHO only young people equate sexuality with compatiblity and a viable long-term loving and committed relationship.
Stephanie Ong
51. RussianWolf
It makes no sense that she would just up and go with the dark.

I think DL chosing Dark makes sense. Think about it, her views on humans is low to begin with. She used bombs because she knows humans won't stop without force and to her they need to stop. To her humans make bad choices and need to be forced to make the right ones. Humans don't care because even with the deaths of eleven people it didn't change anything. Not only did those people die for nothing, her own brother is proof that Humans are no good. They are inferior and need masters and the Fae fit the role for her. They deserve what they get so being fed on by Fae is justified.

She has Fae Knight Syndrome

* Waves at WhiskeyWhite. * ChibiHoshi was me prior to registering RussianWolf.

I myself only have the experience of having been a Beard for a fellow Marine 15 years ago during DADT. His boyfriend had the anti-bi/Traitor attitude and didn't like my roommate at the time, who was.

What exactly did Kenzi do to be labeled a terrorist?
Fear. They consider all claimed humans dangerous because they know Fae exists and could potentially expose the Fae world or try to exploit it. Get rid of them all before the next Taft is born. Maybe they see her as a ticking time bomb like some unlightened idiots see all Muslims.
Katherine Bloom
52. lsbloom
Lauren is officially TSTL.

The light didn't look for her? Are you kidding me? What do you think they would have done when they found you? Thrown you in dungeon for turning Taft fae? Tell you it was too dangerous to leave...oh wait, Hale did that. Warn you you are safer away from the fae...oh wait, Dyson did that. Not wasted the time to save someone who ran away long before the Una Mens came to town?

Bo is fae and therefore untrustworthy. But the Morrigan is a-okay?

Kidnapping you and throwing you in a dungeon is being a drama queen? That was the worst thing the light ever did!

I reserve the right to smack the next person who dares say that Lauren is a put upon slave of the fae. She has chosen stupidly 4 times now. And she can't even claim 2 of those were for altruistic or selfless purposes. They were just dumb.

TSTL and Bo putting up with it because before Lauren ran away she bought her a necklace that she didn't give her for a reason and the sentiment of she obviously doesn't feel is absurd. Go home to Kenzi and get it figured out.
53. TheUberFan
I'd also like to add that people seem to be suggesting that Lauren is serving the Morrigan to save Crystal and protect Bo.

So...let's see if I can understand this. Lauren, who knows that Bo has been lied to all her life by people who are trying to protect her, lies to protect her? If there is a sword of Damocles hanging over Bo's head and Lauren knows about it, how is it romantic that she's keeping Bo in the dark? (See what I did there? ;)

Another theory being bantied about is that the Morrigan is using her by enchanting her with the same thing she uses on her clients. Well, if that's the case, what would be the point of it? If anything, the Morrigan would want Lauren to keep Bo on the hook in order to reel her more solidly on board.

No...I saw no indication that she was under any duress whatsoever. And any notion that she was under a spell makes no sense given how she blew Bo off. The Morrigan would want Lauren to keep Bo happy, not dump her again.

And if it's just to save Crystal, why isn't she telling Bo? She knows how powerful she is. But if Lauren is trying to save Crystal's life, why wouldn't she trust in Bo to help? If that's the case, it shows she really doesn't have that much faith in her after all.
Katherine Bloom
54. lsbloom
@UberFaenatic That's two heartwrenching Lauren/Bo discussions that Lauren must have been lying in to "protect" Bo. Sorry I'm taking none of that. She wasn't lying in Taft's office and she isn't lying here.
55. stacymd2
@cmm: If “Bo's purpose in the fae world is to destabilize it and get rid of what Trick originally did to make a freer world,” wouldn’t that start the Great Fae Wars again? Wouldn’t that ultimately expose the Fae to humans and possibly destroy them? Trick set those laws for a reason…The Light & Dark did not get along then and still do not now I don’t think Bo can bring them together unless she makes all Fae her slaves or thralls. She would become a Loki (The Avengers) like figure.

@NusiD: Wonder Lauren is scary smart. She should know that Evony is lying and using her. Evony was not there when Lauren/Bo started kissing or in their final scene. Lauren could have slipped Bo a note saying that Evony had captured her and that she is acting. I’m sure TPTB will walk back Lauren’s actions as they did with everything in S3.
I didn’t get the impression that Kenzi wants herself and Bo to be Dark or loves hanging with them. I think Kenzi was joking around, but also subtly expressing that she would follow Bo anywhere. No one thinks Wonder Lauren is more evil that Evony who melts people for kicks and kill newlyweds on their wedding day to avoid paying for a party.

Man, if loving evil Evony is wrong, I don’t want to be right…

“She was always one for big heroic gestures“
Bo & Dyson have that in common.

@cmm: I‘m sure Evony is controlling Lauren somehow as well, but Lauren is also using the Dark Fae to hide. I also think she knows that Bo – who will drag Dyson, Hale, Trick, Tamsin and Kenzi along--is going to do everything she can to rescue her. Their final scene read like Lauren manipulating Bo to me. She is protesting too much that she is free and fine (The Light didn’t look for me…You would have but you couldn’t…“I’m not mad at you” dramatic pause), but Bo knows Lauren is in grave danger. Bo will not leave Lauren with the Dark no matter what Lauren claims—Lauren knows this.

@Whiskeywhite: RA is so hot. I can do with him until KHR is back on my screen! Love your comment #34.

@Isbloom: Watch it! (but have a glass of wine or a box of chocolate with you for the L/B parts.) Watch it for Kanzi, Tamsin Bruce; the Tamsin dance off; the Trick & Vex backstory and to laugh at Lauren’s slow-mo entrance. I busted out laughing. It was so cheesy.

@bungluna: “using Dyson as a charging bonner,” LOL! I’m going to try to use this in a future comment – or in any given conversation.

@nypinta: Crystal was not at the party. That was another blonde.

@bungluna: the only thing holding the character of Karen/Lauren together is the talented ZP. The writers are not doing the character any favors. Someone in the last thread called Karen/Lauren a Mary Sue and that label applies so well.

“The most romantic moment on the show so far this season was when Bo was in the car with Dyson and they were just holding each other's hand, in my opinion.”

Let me be the fourth to agree with this.

@UberFaenatic: you may be right about TPTB mistaking the sexual for the romantic. They are to focused on Bo’s sexual nature while not slut shaming her, Lauren’s past and reinforcing the triangle. This coupled with EA not wanting to show important conversations makes romance difficult. On the other hand this is a SyFy show. Doing love/romance is very difficult in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre.
56. nypinta
I find it frustrating that Bo and Lauren never actually did get to have time to talk, really talk. They started to but Lauren shut it down when she told Bo she couldn't go with her because of the Light. Which doesn't make sense now that Bo is technically Dark, that would make Bo's hovel Dark fae territory and the Light can't go there, and the only Light that Bo would deal with that might come over anyhow is Dyson, who is conveniently out of town. So they could have gone to Bo's if she wanted and have everything out. But she didn't. She chose to once again not tell Bo everything and chose words that would push Bo away. I was waiting for Bo to mention the necklace at the very least. Did she? Because I don't recall her saying anything to Lauren. And if it meant so much to her, why wasn't she wearing it? Then we'd know if it really was for Bo and if Lauren ever intended for her to have it or not. Did the note even have names on it? It would be just horrible if the necklace had actually been from Nadia to Lauren. Why does Bo just assume it's for her? It can't be the Ash necklace, because Bo would never wear something that denotes her as belonging to the Ash, even if it was a symbolic trinket that Lauren was saying Bo freed her. So now I want to know. Was it meant for her? Will it come into play later? They made too much of it and Bo made too much of it for it just to be forgotten.
57. TheUberFan
@lsbloom.. I'm willing to believe that Lauren exaggerated her association with Taft but I think the rest of what she said was true. I think she does love Bo...but I think she sees the futility in that love.

So here she sees Bo and of course she wants her because she still loves her and is crazy attracted to her.

But notice later on when that scavenger fae says they made a great couple...her expression is not in anyway joyful or showing agreement.

It's ... sad. It's resigned. Wistful. I see, "If only that were true."

As a total aside, Zoie Palmer looked especially lovely in this episode. That dress was stunning on her.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
58. Kiersten
@nypita - No, she never mentions the necklace to DL and the note has no names on it. Bo assumes it was for her in spite of everything that happened at the end of S3 which I found really out of left field. I never thought it was from DL to B but rather that it was for NotComaNadia but I think it much more likely that NotComaNadia bought it for DL. That tracks nicely considering the tension between them after NotComaNadia woke up, that NCN wouldve bought a trinket for DL to try and smooth things over. There's no way DL couldve bought it for Bo and stashed it after she left with Taft and no reason she wouldve bought it before, considering how difficult she was finding their relationship before she left.

Also, Bo tore DL's flat apart when she left with Taft and she didn't find the necklace right there in the main top drawer of the desk/kitchen then? Oh wait. Did I just try to apply logic to Lost Girl again?

Silly me.

Yes. Without question, Zoie Palmer looked amazing in this episode.
59. TheUberFan
I think the card was signed, "Forever, L."

So I think it was from Lauren...and Bo assumed it was for her. But we have no idea how long it was there or why Lauren bought it or for whom.

It could easily be a gift from Lauren to Nadia that she was intending to give to her to help soften things between them with all the problems they were having right before Bo shish kabobed her.

We also have no idea why it hadn't been found beforehand.
60. drusilla_doll
Presumably it was a writer's cheat, to inject some emotion. Bo goes all awww and all is forgiven. /rollseyes. Of course, some bling and a pretty note from long ago doesn't negate what happened in the last half of S3. Nor does it change the fact that Bo and Lauren are fundementally incompatible, and while I acknowledge they love each other, it's not often enough to sustain a relationship long term if they have troubles communicating, being honest with each other, being realistic about their situation, giving each other what they need. What made their pairing so wrong and left them both so unfulfilled has not changed.

Bo is still in denial. She has been since she tried to insist their sexings were 'epic' to Dyson. Since she kept bleating on about how it was a 'break' not a 'break up'. She idealises her relationship with Lauren so much that it's painful to watch. Here's hoping she grows up and finally accepts the truth.
Nadine Robb
61. cmm

@cmm: If “Bo's purpose in the fae world is to destabilize it and get rid of what Trick originally did to make a freer world,” wouldn’t that start the Great Fae Wars again? Wouldn’t that ultimately expose the Fae to humans and possibly destroy them? Trick set those laws for a reason…The Light & Dark did not get along then and still do not now I don’t think Bo can bring them together unless she makes all Fae her slaves or thralls. She would become a Loki (The Avengers) like figure.

I thought that originally but if you think about it Bo has subtly changed the opinion of many fae without thralling them. I think when the laws were made they were flawed, hence why so many fae try and skirt around them. All the laws really did was force them to take a side and do their evil deed within that side. None of those wars really stopped they're just hidden behind certain peoples agendas. I think by distabilizing the laws she could open up the fae for a dialogue. Where they still have to come to some sort of consensus on how to live and govern themselves but the lines aren't so rigid.

@Isbloom The first five minutes and that necklace scene made me rage. I just couldn't believe how stupid it was.
62. stacymd2
So what does everyone think of EA’s moment in the recap article that there are three threats Bo must face:
EA: I would say there are three Big Bads this season. And one of them’s going to be a surprise…there’s the Wanderer and what he wants…you just cannot ignore the reach of the Una Mens…I think it all comes together quite elegantly in the end. But sometimes evil comes from unexpected places, I would say.”

I know I sound paranoid, but I have a sinking feeling that Dyson is being set up for a major fall. This “unexpected” threat would only be a surprise (in the turn everything upside down way) if it turned out to be a main cast member. Dyson betraying Bo and/or the Fae to get her unaligned could be it. Granted, they could easily make this third threat Massimo, Aife, Bruce, Vex, Crystal or any of the guest stars from seasons one – three, but none of those would make a world upside down impact.

My bets for the third big bad are: 1) Dyson; 2) Trick; 3) Massimo. Probably the only sure thing is that the threat will be male.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
63. Kiersten
I think somehow the threat will be Bo herself but yes, Dyson is definitely getting set up for the fall especially now that Bo and DL are through for sure. Cant let him be available to Bo when DL isn't. It might break the doccubus continuum
64. nypinta
I think it's going to be Trick. Wait. Aife, (again), if she does indeed take the final seed and becomes the final Una Mens. Trick did say that the one he was speaking too turned in their own family members for minor transgressions which lead to their deaths. (Huh. What if one of the Una Mens was either Vex's family or Vex's former lover that he mentioned. That would be a double burn on him, wouldn't it?) So an Una Mens'ed Aife would still be a threat, but in a different way. Except, the fact that the one mentioned that until the final seed is taken, they are vulnerable makes me think that won't happen. So my second option is Trick. Bo and he are not on opposite sides of the fae divide. And he is responsibl now for all of the Light. He might not be able to avoid a confrontation with Bo if she were to insist on doing something that he sees as a threat to the Light. Massimo could be an option because the writers think his return would be a huge surprise. I don't think it's Dyson. Unless Bo goes completely Dark and he's fighting her Dark nature in order to save her. But it could also be Lauren herself. Ooooooooohoho! Wouldn't that be interesting! Or Lauren's brother. Soap opera law states that if a family member is mentioned, they must then appear under mysterious circumstances.
65. TheUberFan
Okay...spitballing here. What if Hale gets Una Mens'd? What if he's the one who ends up with the seed and he kills, say, Trick? Or vice versa?

We know this is going to be a dark season in more ways than one and what would be worse than one of our gang being turned evil and killing another?
66. stacymd2
@Kiersten: I thought it could be Bo herself too, but the writers need Bo to directly fight against The Wanderer (Father) and the Una Mens (threaten K & L). They will never have Bo not be a major part of saving Kenzi and/or Lauren. With all of the crowing that occurred after Season three where some “fans” claimed that Bo wasn’t the hero, I don’t see EA & JF going that route again.

@nypinta: It could be Trick. He has already shown that he will make tough decisions for the good of Fae-kind. This could be a surprise, but I don’t think it would be as impactful as if Dyson turned out to be a Big Bad.
I would prefer it to be Massimo or Aife. They are not necessary to the show. I am curious about the Massimo/Evony connection and want to know what Trick & Aife’s relationship was like before her rebellion. I would hate for these to not be resolved.
If the 3rd Big Bad is Aife, could it be her funeral that the gang attends? Aife becomming more evil and Trick and/or Bo being forced to kill her would make an impact.
Lauren’s brother showing up is a guarantee. I fear that Kyle Schmid may be playing him. I hope not, but I think the rest of Season four will turn into the Doccubus and Lauren’s backstory hour.

@UberFaenatic: They could go that route with Hale. It would impact Kenzi and Dyson and give KCC a storyline. I would personally be very pissed off if Lost Girl made the only major character of color evil. KCC is barely on.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
68. Kiersten
oh yeah, that would make sense if Kyle Schmidt played DL's brother. Because, yes, her brother is definitely showing up I wouldnt be surprised if the rest of S4 turns into the Lauren Story/Doccubus Redux. Didn't you know she's the lost girl hero of the title? Shame on you.

That said, I would LOVE it if the 3rd bad turned out to be Doctor Lauren getting her Doctor Frankenbitch fully on. I dont think LG has the guts for it, but that would, at least, be a natural progression for her character, one that is even supported by her character arc in S3.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
69. Kiersten
Oh and if Dyson goes bad and/or dies, espcially if it's for the sake of doccubus and/or to break his mated love sitch, I'm gone. That's it. Done.
Stephanie Ong
70. RussianWolf
It's like when they used to touch foreheads to reassure one another they were each OK. It's always been unique to there bond, touching and deeply romantic in the truest of ways - a gentle manifestation of their love.

And people wonder why the forehead touch over the compass in 401 tells me the same thing.

What if Hale gets Una Mens'd? What if he's the one who ends up with the seed and he kills, say, Trick? Or vice versa?

For some reason I think soon after he confesses his feelings to Kenzi, Hale is a dead man. (Unless KC's no longer needed on the other show.) I can't think of any other plot device to prevent the moonlighting curse or keep the pair apart in their favorite will they won't they circle. (Okay, yes I can and that is another triangle - maybe Vex?)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
71. Kiersten
@RussianWolf - I think that forehead touch was deliberate to show how Kenzi was essentially filling Bo's slot in the Fae guys lives. She was Trick's "granddaughter", she had the forehead touch with Dyson, and she was doing the detective thing for the Fae. All Bo's roles. She was even wearing the damn kimono.

That's also the moment when they knew it wasn't quite right. It's not a thing Dyson does with the women he's with; it's unique to Bo and Dyson and when she was gone and Kenzi was supernaturally slotted into their memories where Bo wouldve been, Dyson instinctively did it again with the woman who represented Bo, and finally realized how it was not the right woman.
Stephanie Ong
72. RussianWolf
You could be right that it could be the moment SHE knew things weren't right but HIM? His speech and his "yeah, so" makes me question that. The whole "When you're in love you know, right?" is what keeps me running around. In the end I think they just like to play with all of us. It's great that there is clippage for vid fodder even if nothing happens. All my eggs are in an Olicity baaket anyways.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
73. Kiersten
Maybe that was her moment, but he questions it much earlier when they kissing (ew) in Hilton Hovel, breaking off to say it's weird or something like that. I'm not sure; I've only watched those scenes once & then it was through my fingers to control the faecest nausea. But if I remember right, he broke off b/c he was feeling unsure. My biggest peeve is that Dyson and Kenzi have earned their real relationship of emotional big bro/little sis and they've worked hard for and at it and it exists free and clear of whatever their individual standing is with Bo (unlike Kenzi's relationship with Doctor Lauren; if DL isn't with Bo, then she and Kenzi are basically only acquaintances) and it's beautiful and poignant and meaningful and to sex it up, even for one episode, is just really, really disrespectful of that and quite frankly, wrong.

Ohhhhh Olicity. So with you there @RussianWolf
Carmen Pinzon
77. bungluna
God, if only the writers had the guts to get Lauren all eviled out! Imagine if she signed up with the Dark Fae to use the Taft-learned bio-wammy's to get revenge on all faedom. That would be a sweet, sweet plot!

Never happen, though. Can't have sainted WonderLauren actually doing something not doccunuts approved.
Katherine Bloom
81. lsbloom
If they want to keep forcing Lauren into a WanderLauren position, it never fails to amaze me why they don't just do it. Instead they keep reinforcing all the things that make her intolerably stupid, devisive, and ambigiously evil.

The minute Bo sees Lauren, she runs off and ditches Kenzi at a dark fae party with a teenager and doesn't look back. Doesn't even check back in. Anytime BoLo is together, Kenzi is a footnote.

Then, Lauren once again SUCKS as backup. She stays with an idiot fae who got kicked, and Bo gets to take on Vex alone. And Bo could really use some backup against Vex--so powerful the Morrigan needs him to bring down the Una Mens...this isn't some piddly fae and he is backed into a corner.

Then, Bo and Lauren continue to not communicate at all. Sure they jump each other. But Lauren comes back to town and doesn't even bother calling Dyson and telling him where she is? She's just swanning around "free" in dark fae town but she doesn't call Bo, she doesn't call Kenzi, she doesn't call anyone who's been worried about her, just whines that they didn't come find her. But past that, they had all day to discuss what was going on. Bo asked on a couple of occassions and Lauren evades. Now? Do we have to? What about? Oh! Seriously, woman, the tactiturn wolf talks more than this. Lauren EVADES all personal questions and responsibility.

Why keep reinforcing these things? Why keep having to "walk back" a character's actions? She is what she is. And if you want her to be something different for goodness sakes start writing her that way!
82. TheGardner
Interesting episode with good progression. So yeah Bo's a douche and I wanted to punch her in the face, hmm... wait didn't I say that last week? I'm sort of noticing a theme here, and based on the screen cap for next week's episode Bo is wearing the outfit from the DyBo-caskroom hook-up in the S4 promo so it will probably continue. Before anyone bitches or calls me a hater that would be because, based somewhat on EA use of the word "shenanigans" in reference to Bo/Dyson Light/Dark issue, my spec is that Bo bangs him in a public place as a giant fuck you to the establishment as well as being pissed and petty about Lauren thrown in for good measure, but maybe I'm wrong.

I get that this is probably some big redemption story with Bo finding her way back to her "true" self through the love and support of her "family"(gag me), but it is hard to stomach the main character being such a self-centered asshole. The scene with Lauren mirrored the one with Kenzi from the previous episode in that Lauren is explaining the reality of being a human in the fae world and again Bo doesn't listen, makes it all about herself and walks away when Lauren doesn't do what she wants. As to that being the end of Doccubus, ha keep dreaming!

Episode Stuff:

Good movement with the Una Mens and naming Trick "acting" Ash. I guess there are actually some people in Faeronto that don't know he is the Blood King(worst kept secret ever). I get that they are "Dark", but seriously killing a bride and groom then snacking on the wedding party doesn't exactly cast them in a flattering light(huge pun intended). Kenzi and Tamsin were fun as the filler. I liked the scavenger, but like Jorbina, I have a feeling she was a one and done, sucks.

On to the "Doccubus Reunion"; to put it mildly, the slow motion walk and Bo's expression was a bit heavy handed. I much preferred the interaction after when they couldn't keep their hands off of each other. That felt real to me and I've been there myself. My ex and I had split before I went on deployment and when I came back after six months she was waiting on the pier for me "as a friend". Lets just say we barely made it back to her house and I ended up having to buy her some new furniture. It didn't fix or change anything, but I get it. It also went well with their final scene in the episode when the reality hit Bo like a truck that hey, maybe things weren't so easy.

What happened to Crystal? So Bo takes Kenzi(a wanted human) and Tamsin(a baby fae) to a Dark party and just ditches both of them to chase down Vex, um nice way to protect your friends Bo Bo. How long was Bo out and what happened with Lauren and the scavenger that she was back at the dark compound? Where does Lauren live now and can I have her flat? I thought it was funny that once Bo remembered Dyson was out looking for Lauren she didn't bust out her phone and text him to let him know. But then again he wasn't around to charge her batteries earlier so I guess he only has one purpose for her, ass.


Bo - For the record I think the reason she thought that she and Lauren were back together was because they had sex, not so much about the necklace. That was just something she pinged on when she was loopy. I am guessing the Wander/her dad is Reiner so did he get her to sign up when she was on his death train and how is she going to find him and get out of it? She acted semi-normal when she first met Lauren then it was back to brat, I am glad Vex called her out on it more characters need to do that. I just hope this arc has an end/point because what a douche bag, ugh.

Lauren - I don't feel like she avoided the "talk", I think it was more of a case of "not right now because we are on a mission and will most likely be interupted at any moment" which they were. As soon as they had listed the topics that Vex controlled Security Guard popped out and kicked that Pietra in the shin. I liked seeing her stand up for herself with Bo, she explained her situation and Bo didn't want to hear it. I think she has a lot of nerve referring to the Sunshine Gang as Lauren's "family". When have they ever been her family, they tolerate her because of Bo or call on her when they need something, but they are not her family. Lauren is alone, except for when Nadia was post-coma/pre-stabbed or with Bo, she has always pretty much been alone. As for her arrangement with the Dark, which I would like the details to, her options were pretty limited. She knew what it meant going back to the Light so it makes sense.

Evony - I love how she played Bo, again, continuity people gotta love it. I am sure that there is more going on behind the scenes, but it makes sense that she would go after Lauren. The doctors skills are an asset and she is well aware how important she is to Bo, another valuable asset. I enjoy her so much, especially since she is the only character who consistantly dicks Bo around.

Vex - I am a sucker for character backstory and he certainly delivered. I was annoyed with Cartoon-Vex in the first episode so I am glad he dialed back. The hand thing was gross, but since it is on ice and flipping everyone off, I have to wonder if it is permanent. Bo called him family so he going to join Bruce and Tamsin as housguest of squaters in Hilton Hovel?

Tamsin - I won't hold my breath, but I kind of like her. I hated this character in the last few episodes of season 3. She was all over the place and I was never sold on this big connection with Bo that caused her to go off the deep end. The dance off, hilarious.

Kenzi - I was glad to see her reunited with Bruce(Go Team Kuscles!), as I love the two of them together. I think acting wise KS really brings out the best in RS and I am enjoying the sister thing they have going on, even if Kenzi almost got her killed.

Trick - Not surprised that he has been named the "acting" Ash, it made sense and really what else were TBTB going to do with his character. I am interested to see how he reacts when he finds out the Morrigan is in possesion of Lauren, who is technically still his property. Will we see a courtroom dispute on Lost Girl or are they in it together with some backroom wheelin' and dealing? Also what does this mean for his realtionship with Bo since Dark and Light aren't supposed to comingle, I guess it's a good thing his bar is neutral territory.

Still with the questions and few answers. Some minor plot hole, but over all flowed well. I am loving that both humans are continuing to grow as characters while in comparison the fae are being portrayed as stagnant. I wasn't sure about this season, but I am interested enough to keep watching so good on them I guess.
83. katotela
poor lauren,the writters are making it so difficult for people to like her.the reason she gave for joining the dark was so lame.i thought she was running from the light fae. so how could she be running from the una mens??the writters have found a lame excuse to bind lauren to the dark so she and Bo can spend time together now that Bo is dark.they dont want to throw them back together right away because they want Bo to continue using Dyson fo sex.i think it about time they let Dyson and Bo have a descent relationship as they did in S3 for Lauren and Bo.lets see how it goes.Maybe i dont understand the meaning of "Love triangle"please people educate me coz now what i see is Dyson being used for sex and lauren being treated like malaika ( goddess.i hope that what it means in english). i was into lauren and Bo at the beggining but now i cant just lie to myself anymore.maybe they should let them be just friends for now,go out for a drink or something.there is something missing between them.i dont know what it is.
Tamsin was so sweet in this ep.she is so adorable, like a sweet kid who obeys everthing her big sis (Kenzi) tells her to do.I realy liked the dance and how Kenzi was trying to support her on the moves.

Ooh!! i almost forgot,the lauren slo mo scene was a bit too much.
Sorry for my poor tenses!!!
87. bonobo
It's so difficult to understand Lauren's motivations here, she obviously loves Bo and Bo quite clearly loves her, so sad for Dyson being a quick fuck and feed, when did it come to this? I thought she loved him?
89. katotela
did you see how Bo snapped at the waiter who interepted their love scene.she was so rude considering the fact that the door wasn't shut.if they wanted privacy,they should have shut the door.
90. katotela
did you see how Bo snapped at the waiter who interepted their love scene.she was so rude considering the fact that the door wasn't shut.if they wanted privacy,they should have shut the door.
Nicole Leapheart
91. BoxyFrown
I love how the waiter went back for that second look!

Also, WTH Bo? Is that dark fae blood making her even more succubitchy than normal? She wants Lauren when Lauren is there, but Dyson when Dyson is there?

And poor Vex. Kinda feeling bad for him. He's like a jerky little shit brother.

Oh, and Tamsin dance off!! So good.
92. TheUberFan
I didn't even get the sense they had sex though, @TheGardner. When? In the three minutes before they had to leave with the scavenger fae?

Yeah that's romantic. Nothing says true lurve like a quickie bang in the Morrigan's parlor.
Nadine Robb
93. cmm
A lot of what is said about Bo being selfish, being a douche is a direct result of them writers forcing her to be a part of that couple. If you look at her when she's with Dyson even with Ryan, her family is her family and they are equal in terms of receiving her love. With that doctor it never happens and I really hate that the writers are tanking Bo's character. I mainly watch for Bo and Kenzi and I hate when either one of them is used to prop up that useless doctor. As far as a traingle is concerned, I don't see one. I see that couple followed by a Dyson prop. As of this week he is only there to recharge her battery, nothing more nothing less. I get that fans had some great Dyson/BO scenes but this week seems to negate all of that. I wish they'd just come out and show it, stop fanwanking the fans.
94. TheUberFan
I feel the triangle is totally hyped but it's all phony.

Look at when Dyson and Bo reunite and there's a wedding. But it's not between Dyson and Bo. But they want to make the Dyson and Bo fans happy

But how does Bo feel? We know Dyson loves her but I'm not seeing reciprocation. I see her using him for his chi.

And I feel this way because look at how she flips when Lauren slo-mo's across the scene. And notice how Bo and Lauren got out of the "just married" limo? Yeah, because that wasn't obvious.

BTW...I don't know that Bo loves Lauren anymore. I think she loves THE IDEA of Lauren...but doesn't even really know the real Lauren. She loves what the idea of she and Lauren together represent and I feel she's desperate for that true love scenario where something in her life finally makes sense again.

But this is the same Bo who had no idea Lauren was upset to the point of dumping her. This is the same Bo who lived with the fantasy it was only a break.

So I think Bo needs to grow up a bit more emotionally before she's ready for anything. Frankly, she and Tamsin are almost on equal footing emotionally. I don't see much growth in her at all when it comes to coupledom and understanding what it takes to make a grown up relationship work. It's like she still is mentally a teenager and hasn't quite figured out how to take it to the next level.
95. bonobo
Even Dyson has admitted that Bo loves DL, where do we go from here? Kenzi said she was one of the good guys? I don't know what to think anymore. Why would Kenzi point out that stuff about DL? Like the fact that she saved Dyson? Are they trying to make her a hero? WTF
96. nypinta
Someone upthread commented that Lauren's talk with Bo was similar to Kenzi when Kenzi was telling Bo how she couldn't keep her safe, and I totally agree. People keep trying to tell Bo that she can't protect her friends, even her friends. But she keeps not hearing it. It was Lauren giving the Dark props for coming to get her that I will never get around. I am just baffled why the writers ever had her say that. It was just so out of left field and illogical to the point of ruining everything else she was saying. Having her say, in a different way then Kenzi, 'Bo, you couldn't protect me. You can't protect me' since Bo couldn't, (before Taft and all of that, which is why Lauren really left), would have been preferable. And hearing how easy it was for Bo to say she'd "claim" Lauren... she is accepting her faedom a little too easily. Lauren doesn't want to be "claimed" by Bo. She wants to be with Bo. But that will never happen. But she doesn't care about being claimed by the Dark because the Dark don't matter to her.

Although the slo-mo walk was a bit much, I think it was a demonstration of how Bo sees Lauren, not reality. Which seemed to be the underlying theme. Bo being in denial about so many things. As much as I was angry at her for her reaction to Kenzi when Kenzi expressed her fear, I think she was just shoving back the truth again. That Kenzi was right and that scares Bo. So when Lauren was telling her that things hadn't really changed and that she's accepted where she is because it's the best for her, Bo snipes instead of hearing. Although when Lauren was giving her stupid "the Light didn't come for me" schpiel I would have loved it if Bo reminded her as sharply as she could that Lauren left. (Just as I would have loved Kenzi snipping back at Bo about their confrontation. I know it isn't like Kenzi but when Bo said, "you two are close... right?" I would have hugged my lap top had Kenzi snapped back, "Well I did get his love back, didn't I?" For reasons. As a reminder to Bo that she isn't the only one that can get shit done.

I wasn't that concerned when Bo left Kenzi and Tamsin at the party because the rules are that as a claimed human, Kenzi is Bo's property and if anyone screws with that Bo has the right to go after them. Seeing as Bo is the newest shiny Dark fae thing, no one was going to mess with that.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
97. Kiersten
Brace yourselves, but I agree with @TheGardner again. I found Bo's comment about DL coming back to her family so deluded and coming out of nowhere. They have never been DL's family; Kenzi has tried to make it work and then had her character retconned to suddenly "lurve" her some DL, but if DL isn't with Bo, there's virtually zero relationship betweent DL and Kenzi. Dyson and DL have an acrimonious relationship that existed before Bo entered their lives and got worse when she did but with DL not being with the Light Fae now and not with Bo, that could likely fall apart too, though Dyson's nature makes him feel somewhat responsible for DL at the moment, though God knows why after what she's done to him. Trick and DL's main connection was Light Fae business and Bo ditto Hale and she has zero relationship with Tamsin. I've always maintain that much of the awkward! when Bo and DL are together with the group is the fact that DL majorly does not fit in Bo's faemily and for Bo to now arrogantly tell DL to come back to her "family" when she's ready only underscores how very much she has never truly known this woman at all and, as UberFanatic said, isn't really in love with her so much as the ideal of Doctor Lauren that Bo has created for herself. And I think DL finally gets this and that's why she looks after Bo almost with affectionate pity when Bo walks out.

But then you have Dyson harping and harping and harping out-of-characteron how Bo loves DL and Kenzi doing a full character 180 to the point that she calls DL "good people" when nearly eveything in DL's past and nearly every single action she has taken in this present is just the exact opposite of "good people". It's gone beyond the point of protesting too much - when people have to constantly state what a character is but then the character goes and shows she is something else entirely, that's either clueless, hamfisted writing, deliberate red herrings, or an attempt to please and appease one master while throwing crumbs to the other. Any way you look at it, it's really confusing to the audience and, I think, has gone on for way too long.

This hasn't been a "triangle" for a while, and I'm not sure it ever was. It was Bo and Dyson together for like 3 seconds and then the Norn (Freaking Norn!) inacted the curse so that put them on the skids ever since. Bo rebounded with DL and ever since S3 the show has been driven by appeasing fans of that union no matter what the cost to the show. When DL isn't in the picture, Bo has a balance partnership with Dyson who empowers her and backs her up. When DL shows up, it's like Bo becomes a completely different person, this asshole woman who bangs Dyson (when not obeying DL's "no Dyson" rule) for power (but that's OK because he loves her and, well, is only a man) and then runs off to have weepy emo moments with DL. Bo and DL have long since exhausted any parameters of their relationship and yet we're still dealing with the complete WTFery of doccubus. This latest ep again shows how DL brings out the absolute worse in Bo, making her selfish and delusional and predatory and a flat-out bitch. That's not love; that's a toxic relationship.

Episode 4.03 had beautiful, tender moments of love (that have been seriously lacking in this show for a long time) between Bo & Dyson without sexing it up or taking off anyone's clothes and then bam! he gets relegated to a recharger the moment DL makes the scene? I call bullshit. If the show thinks it can sop off all other fans with these random moments only to quickly undo them to appease the mafia, it's going to backlash very soon and hard.

There is the faint hope that this is all deliberate to show Bo spiraling ever more out of control and leading to some sort of confrontation or revelation in the near future. And, of course, my dream of Doctor Lauren getting her full-on bad on too. Doccubus bullshit aside, this season has been so much better than S2 & S3 especially with the plot and the Fae Universe and has raised the stakes so high. I love that it's utilizing so many fringe characters, like Bruce, and how much Kenzi has been given to do. I love that Vex is back in the mix big time and that Hale is back, even if his appearances are stil spotty. Yeah, the plot holes still make a black hole look like a mere puddle, but I haven't been this engaged by the LG Big Bad in...well, ever. Here's hoping they've learned not to cram it all into the final 2 episodes and the Dark Fae, Light Fae, Una Mens, and The Wanderer conflicts continued to get juicier.
99. TheUberFan
Toxic. That's the perfect way to describe the Doccubus relationship. Bo has to ignore everything and live in a deluded fantasy and Lauren has to pretend that she's okay with Bo's fae-ness and be at peace with Bo's nature to rush out and involve herself in random fae adventures. Neither talk out major or even minor issues and they skip right to the sexy times. How is this healthy? Ever?

And it turns them both into jerks, IMHO. It does real harm to them so I hope that they find a way to move past this and show real growth for both at some point. Although I have no doubt they'll continue to throw bones because they just can't seem to help themselves.

Random thought...can someone be de-Una Mens'd?

What if my spitball scenario comes true and the Una Mens figure out that Fitzpatrick McCorrigan is THE BLOOD KING and force him to be seeded and he ends up killing one of our gang?

Can that the Una Mens-ing be undone or is he lost?

Of course with the seed missing right now, it's possible that anyone of our gang might be Una Mens'd. I'm worried about Hale, btw. I just have a sick feeling something bad is going to happen to him. Don't know why.
101. nypinta
I think the constant positive comments from both Kenzi and Dyson are supposed to support the idea that Lauren has become a part of the team (if not family) that surrounds Bo. Kenzi had time to teach Lauren to pick looks and Kenzi made a comment to Lauren when she was calling her in the first episode about "color blocking" which I think was to imply they did some retail therapy. The way to Kenzi's heart is clothes and makeup... Although, I agree that Dyson has referred too many times to the relationship Bo and Lauren supposedly have way too often for it to be natural. And it would have been nice if when Bo mentioned Dyson looking for Bo that she said Hale was with him. That would completely counter Lauren's assertion that the Light aren't trying to find her if the partners were doing so, including one former acting Ash. And it would explain his absence more. Plus we'd know the dynamic fae cop duo was back in play in full force. Yay!

I'm not sure how the Una Mens work. But, with the exception of their rumored appearance, I didn't think they were actually in Faetown until the spell was broken. Kenzi was trying to find out more about them, which is counter to them being out in the open and using the Ash's compound to do their interrogations. So the Una Mens haven't been around for more than two weeks by this time and it isn't clear who knew who they were looking for until Vex was taken by them anyhow so no one had time to go looking for Lauren if they had wanted to. At this point the show is almost relying on Three's Company level of misunderstandings to keep characters apart and it's becoming annoying in a season that otherwise is pretty damn tight.
C. H.
102. SmurfFae
I think DL is primarily motivated by fear ("I'm hiding in terror from the Una Mens.") and fear is hindering her from thinking clearly. Right now, the Una Mens are residing at a location that belongs to the Light. Plus, the Morrigan has lots of experiences in contracting humans. (Or maybe the Morrigan has another assistant who can change a persons motivations ;) ?)

The difference between Light and Dark was a big topic this episode:
In the past, the Light have been shown to enjoy glamorous festivities.
The Dark avoid to organize a party by crashing a wedding and killing all the guests (Dr Bruce: "They read their vows in iambic pentameter. So lovely." So Dark!)
But actions like that make DL look suicidal in her choice of employer.

Tamsin's dancing scene (amongst others) was pretty awesome the way RS sold it: Tamsin's expressions & movement were super-girly. She's a completely different character from season.I hope we see more of Bo/Tamsin in the near future and more of RS long term.

I also would like to know who the woman in the dress was, that was stabbed by the scavenger. No clue.

At the end of season 2, Bo promises Trick to help him keep the peace between Light and Dark, that he created. That is also the 'raison d'être' of the Una Mens, but they use laws & agression where Bo uses love & passion ;)
(Overanalyzed Musing: Bo uses the same strategy as Bonobos - which is no surprise considering their name ... can't be a coincidence!)
The Una Mens create peace the only way they know (The Blood Laws).
I can totally imagine Bo creating a better peace by removing the differences between Light & Dark by creating a new faction of Unaligned fae. She's been leading by example for 3 seasons, but I could imagine (once she is no longer Dark herself) other faemily members to go Unaligned, once Bo has set a precedence of changing-your-side-from-an-established-side-to-Unaligned.
But I see this more as a multiple-seasons-spanning story-line. (With the end result being, that there will be no more Light and Dark.)
Aife tried something similar in season 1 with her bomb-strategy. The Wanderer probably wants the fae united too. Under his rule. With Bo as the poster-girl. (They've maybe been scheming together, with her being Dark somehow being part of the plan.)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
103. Kiersten
At this point the show is almost relying on Three's Company level of misunderstandings to keep characters apart and it's becoming annoying in a season that otherwise is pretty damn tight.

104. nypinta
That status can not stay quo, that is for sure. The fae are also in denial that they can keep going the way that they are and being confronted with the Una Mens should wake them up to that fact. Even when Bo was trying to defeat the Garuda, all Evony cared about was partying till the end. The fae are stagnant, as Hale has pointed out. He tried to force them to change but Evony ruined that with her shenanigans, not because she cared if humans were taking fae. She was just bored. I think Bo should be inspiring the few fae that want change, like Hale, to force a shift in the power systems and how things are done.
Melonna Clarke
105. MelonnaBanana
Sometimes I wish Tamsin would Valkyrie DL. I just don't understand why
the writers continue to write Lauren as such an awful character when it
comes to Bo. She is the ultimate manipulator. She has no problems using
Bo's feelings for her to her advantage because she knows she could
pretty much murder everyone Bo loves in front of Bo and Bo would
basically want to have a heart to heart and then "scissor already" (God,
I love Evony!). On the other hand I have said this multiple times, I
love DL independent from Bo. I think it was absolutely the right choice
for her to go dark, she displayed an inner strength and resolve this
episode that we haven't seen yet while she was with the light, she was
also self serving in this episode but we can't win them all.

There are a lot of complaints about Bo abandoning Kenzi. I didn't take
it a such. I think the writers are using this as a way to develop the
friendship between Tamzi. I think it's natural and healthy that Kenz
would need someone besides Bo and I think Tamsin is the perfect option
and I'd love to see that friendship continue to develop.

I can't remember if this was mentioned in this discussion or the last
but someone said that if Bo was truly dark then she would have dropped
Kenzi and killed Lauren. This has been contradicted several times during
the run of the show in various episodes where Bo is either helping or
sleeping with a dark fae. Not all dark fae are evil savages (hello
Tamsin! She may have been angry and out of options but she wasn't evil)
and just like in the real world people have various reasons for choosing
what they choose. If I remember correctly, the light fae for the most
part especially in the light fae glymera (yeah I just cross referenced
black dagger brotherhood) see humans as beneath fae. I'm not sure what's
worse, not even counting someone as worthy of life and equality or
being carefree with feeding from them. Bo claimed Kenzi to protect her
from the light as well as the dark remember or have people forgotten how
the light elders and even dyson and trick viewed Kenzi?!

I agree that the difference between the light and the dark is order vs
chaos but let's not pretend everything that glitters is gold over on the
light side. laws and rules don't necessarily make you better or right.
Human history in all it's disgusting glory can tell you that and I think
that's the point the writers are trying to make about light and dark.

On another note...I am praying the writes utilize KC Collins and give Hale a more prominent role. He is exactly what this show needs to make a fae power move. I actually think him and Evony could make a good team. Although Evony would be making sure she gets something out of whatever changes they could make but the woman is not scared to do what needs to be done and coulf give Hale the backbone he doesn't necessarily have with other characters. Of course all my favorite characters happen to be the main supporting characters :)

Please tell me Aoife is alive. That would make the whole Rainer story arc that much more compelling.
Melonna Clarke
106. MelonnaBanana
Waiting on him is getting ridiculous. Too much story with no answers
109. nypinta
The Light aren't better than the Dark, but they aren't as bad. They still suck though, if you're human. Something I think sometimes people forget. At least with the Light, there is a chance for a fae to not think of humans in a completely negative light where as with the Dark, humans are to be used, period. If that human is OK with it, it just makes things less complicated for them. They don't actually care that the human is OK with it. Take Ryan's comments to Bo about the people Evony signs. She feeds off their talent but they become famous. The fact that Evony is causing them a short life means nothing to the fae, even though the humans that are signing with her aren't aware that's part of the deal. A Light wouldn't shorten their life at most, would let them make the choice for a shortened life in return for fame at the least. Either way, the human is food and probably going to die. I wonder if Evony is feeding off Lauren's talent and it was part of the agreement? Could be her dumbass reasoning with being with them (because the Light didn't come for her) is her way of justifying such a horrible deal to herself. Bo might not be the only one in denial.
110. Darthfaeder
Is there anyone who knows why Tamsin won't be in episode 6 and 7?
I know for sure that she won't be in ep #6 cuz Rachel wasn't on set during
the week of filmin ep #6 she was back home in Cali. I am just not sure why I keep reading that she won't be in episode 7? If you read that somewhere I would love to know where?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
111. Kiersten
I assume you're looking for something more than "because she's not a regular cast member, but rather is recurring cast member, which means she's not in every episode" reason.

In which case, I don't know why.
Melonna Clarke
112. MelonnaBanana
I still don't agree. Just because Evony is who she is and is the leader of the dark fae you still can't generalize the dark fae just like you can't generalize the light. Generalizations are a dangerous thing. You can take characters for who they are but you can't sum up a whole population just based on stereotypes. If you wanted to follow those rules then by definition Bo would be 100% dark unaligned or not
Melonna Clarke
113. MelonnaBanana
Not that Bo is ok with killing humans but she definitely is more than ok with using what she's got to bend the will of others in order to get what she wants. She has an issue with rules and she's actually quite comfortable on the dirty side of things.
Melonna Clarke
114. MelonnaBanana
I was actually just talking to a friend of mine who I got into the series. He brought up a very good point. "Lost Girl as a show is like most women, there is no one right way to define it. Every woman is capable of being the librarian and the succubus on any given day, doesn't mean women are evil but the parallel between who Bo is as a woman and tone of the show is undeniable." I think he summed it up pretty well
Nusi Dekker
115. NusiD
A very interesting new interview of EA is up. There are some very interesting revelations about the series, etc. She likes it when fans of the show get outraged about its characters, plot holes, etc. because it keeps them engaged.
117. nypinta
@MelonnaBanana It's the fae themselves that generalize about what each side is. They have to so when a young fae is deciding which side to align themselves with, they know what they are getting into. It doesn't mean all Dark are evil. Some almost have no choice but to be Dark. But not all Light are good. It's how they use their powers that really matters. As for Bo, she killed humans with her power before she knew what she was, not because she was OK with it. She didn't know how not to. Now that she knows how it works she doesn't feed on humans. Usually. There are always special circumstances. But her power has always been problamatic since one of her powers is of magical persuasion where the will of the target is rendered useless. Which is why I've said many times that I'd like her to explore her "dark side" by willingly using her power for her own gain till she reaches that line that she nor her friends thought she would ever cross and either she does and deals with the consequences or she doesn't because she, Bo, just can't do it.

@NusiD, She says that? Wow. Being outraged isn't a sign of being "engaged" it's just a sign of being outraged. How about she just stick to telling a good story rather than telling the story so it'll cause the most uproar. Does she poke bees nests when she sees them too?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
118. Kiersten
Interviewer: "Do you have anything else that you’d like to tell the fans?"

EA: "Thank you so much for watching. Recognize that it’s a journey. Sometimes we want you to be outraged and angry and feel things. And just stay engaged. I really have been so moved by everyone’s passion for the show. And you could not follow a more worthy group of people. They’re really lovely people."
Melonna Clarke
119. MelonnaBanana
@nypinta I completely agree with you. I think the characters do a better job of accepting what it is compared to what fans do by trying to absolutely define it. Beautifully put.
Melonna Clarke
120. MelonnaBanana
i think Kenzi's reaction to going dark was the appropriate one. It wasn't Kenzi deciding hey yeah lets be that bad guys. She saw it for what it was, an opportunity to try things from a more unregulated aspect.
121. nypinta
@Kiersten, ah. I'm reading it now. Haven't got that far. That's a touch different. (But not much.) It smacked a little to me like the show runners of Bones trying to spin everyone upset about one character turning evil (ish) as them doing it right because the audience was 'invested'. Uh no. People were upset because it made no sense. And I stopped watching the show after that for several seasons. The only reason I watch again is because the damn show just won't die! (Plus Sweets was a fantastic addition to the show.)
Susan White
122. whiskeywhite
@MelonnaBanana, I am happy to reassure you that Aife is not dead. Trick said that she fell back into madness after remembering Bo. I agree with Kiersten and others who think that Trick has her locked up in a cell (like the fae who had devolved into an underfae that he had locked up in his basement). Am very sorry to hear that Aife won't appear again this season.

Hey, @Russian Wolf. Glad to hear that you're that smart person @ChibiHoshi. Could you please translate "having been a Beard for a fellow Marine 15 years ago during DADT" for us civilians?

@stacymd2, thanks for liking my comment about lesbian/bi politics. I know that what I post here is sometimes (OK, often) different, so I'm glad to hear that I'm not boring everybody. But hey, you bring what you got, right? @cmm, I agree that being bisexual wouldn't be seen as a betrayal in the LG world. Those identities don't exist there. I was speaking only of the fandom and hoping to give some background on the hostility displayed toward the Bo-Dyson relationship by some of the Doccubi.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
123. Kiersten
@nypita - it's pretty "doccubus is all and Lauren is amazing" heavy with only a cursory nod to Kris/Dyson and the heavy implication that DL was considered to be the focus while Anna was on maternity leave but they went with Kenzi in the end. After reading such an outright slanted interview, it's no wonder doccubi believe Doctor Lauren is the actual star of the show.

Someday I'd like to see/hear EA give an interview that is that heavily slanted toward Bo and Dyson and Kenzi with only a hat tip to Doctor Lauren, or at least balanced in some way, but she never will
C. H.
124. SmurfFae
I think DL is primarily motivated by fear ("I'm hiding in terror from the Una Mens.") and fear is hindering her from thinking clearly. Right now, the Una Mens are residing at a location that belongs to the Light. Plus, the Morrigan has lots of experiences in contracting humans. (Or maybe the Morrigan has another assistant who can change a persons motivations ;) ?)

The difference between Light and Dark was a big topic this episode:
In the past, the Light have been shown to enjoy glamorous festivities.
The Dark avoid to organize a party by crashing a wedding and killing all the guests (Dr Bruce: "They read their vows in iambic pentameter. So lovely." So Dark!)
But actions like that make DL look suicidal in her choice of employer.

Tamsin's dancing scene (amongst others) was pretty awesome the way RS sold it: Tamsin's expressions & movement were super-girly. She's a completely different character from season.I hope we see more of Bo/Tamsin in the near future and more of RS long term.

I also would like to know who the woman in the dress was, that was stabbed by the scavenger. No clue.

At the end of season 2, Bo promises Trick to help him keep the peace between Light and Dark, that he created. That is also the 'raison d'être' of the Una Mens, but they use laws & agression where Bo uses love & passion ;)
(Overanalyzed Musing: Bo uses the same strategy as Bonobos - which is no surprise considering their name ... can't be a coincidence!)
The Una Mens create peace the only way they know (The Blood Laws).
I can totally imagine Bo creating a better peace by removing the differences between Light & Dark by creating a new faction of Unaligned fae. She's been leading by example for 3 seasons, but I could imagine (once she is no longer Dark herself) other faemily members to go Unaligned, once Bo has set a precedence of changing-your-side-from-an-established-side-to-Unaligned.
But I see this more as a multiple-seasons-spanning story-line. (With the end result being, that there will be no more Light and Dark.)
Aife tried something similar in season 1 with her bomb-strategy. The Wanderer probably wants the fae united too. Under his rule. With Bo as the poster-girl. (They've maybe been scheming together, with her being Dark somehow being part of the plan.)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
125. Kiersten
Or, to be fair, she hasn't that I've ever seen/heard and I doubt she ever will. Always allow for the possible...
C. H.
126. SmurfFae
Sorry, old post somehow came back. Heres the new:

It's rarely spelled out what exactly makes the difference between Light and Dark. According to the Blackthorn (2.02): Light only kill humans when necessary for feeding ('American Natives-like') and Dark kill for fun. What I got from this episode: Light are more disciplined, rule-oriented/law-abiding and Dark are more lazy, hedonistic, no rules*, live-in-the-moment and chaotic.

I could imagine the Wanderer turned Bo Dark, because he wants her to become Morrigan (step 1 in his 5-year plan for world-domination).

Arabella calls Trick 'a Lakin Chan', which is either "A serpent god in Mayan legend. He came form the East and created man, writing herb lore, books and medicine. (" or the founder of Chichen Itza. Or maybe it's just a fae-depiction of a fae born in the old world and migrated to America.

It's funny how sometimes Vex seems to call out Bo on her 'relationship-related shit', similar to Spike on Buffy ... it's like the writers are using him to acknowledge some character's flaws:
-He calls DL an 'ex'.
-He calls Bo out on her egoism ("Me! Me! Me!! It's not all about you, you know. ")
-When she's spewing silly BoLo-propaganda he first pleads her to stop ("If you don't stop gushing, I swear I'll slit my own bloody throat.") and when she rambles on he gags her.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
127. Kiersten
I should also clarify that I only read the print summation and haven't listened to the actual podcast, so there could be more in there that was less slanted and was edited out by the interviewers.

This is me attempting to be fair and accurate in my engaged outraged. You're welcome.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
128. Kiersten
FTR no one - at least no one here - has ever wanted Bo and Dyson to sit on the couch and hold hands, because, yes, that would be epically boring. If that's what EA believes that fanbase desires, then she really has no clue. I'm hoping it was meant to be facetious, however since it's pretty much the only reference she makes toward them (again, in the print summary) I doubt it.
129. nypinta
@SmurFae, Vex is so chipped Spike. He's the Jayne of the show. The one that says what everyone is thinking but won't say out loud. Tamsin was that. I don't know if her blunt, accept no bullshit attitude will stick once this incarnation gets her memory back. I hope so. Bo needs people to call her out on her crap. And this season someone needs to call a lot of people out on their crap. (I'm still waiting for someone to call out Trick...)
130. stacymd2
@NusiD: Thank you for the link to the EA interview. The funniest (& least surprising) thing she said was:

Q: Do you have a show bible?

EA: “We do, but we’re lax in updating it because we have a small department. Michelle Lovretta created a show bible that had some helpful documents. We have one that’s a historical timeline of when we think what happened because we have Fae who have lived thousands of years. We have a list of the mythological creatures and names we used, but the bible isn’t as particular anymore.
Sometimes you want to be able to break the rules. Logic is important, but sometimes logic is the enemy of story.”

She, JF and Lost Girl are so lucky to have KS and KHR…
131. Darthfaeder
@Kiersten yes I did know that Tamsin was a reoccuring character and not a regular one. Tamsin didn't make it into 2 episodes last season and had basically a cameo appearance in epi # 9 and a small part in epi # 11 so I definetly knew that she wouldn't appear in every episode this season as well. My main question is that I was hoping someone could tell me how and why they think she won't be in episode 7. I know she won't be in episode 6 or 10 because she wasn't even in Toronto during the filming of those episodes. I was just trying to figure out why in several different forums people were saying that she wasn't going to be in the next two episodes. I was mainly wanting to know how they got the info that episode 7 was going to be Tamsin free :).
132. stacymd2
@Darthfaeder: I think 407 maybe uber Doccubus heavy. ZP reportedly said that 407 is her favorite.


As per SpoilerTV:

Episode 4.07 - La Fae Époque Bo and Lauren delve into Dyson's memory when he's on trial for murder.

I have a feeling that this will be the episode that makes me stop watching Lost Girl. I feel they will make Lauren a super hero, have Dyson & gang fawn over her and turn every character’s arc into Doccubus fan wanking.


Also, from SpoilerTV about 406:

Episode 4.06 – Of All The Gin Joints
Bo fights for the freedom of a talented opera singer, whose voice could be the key to unlocking the answers she seeks. Meanwhile, Kenzi is threatened by someone from Hale's past.

Tamsin may not be in 406 & 407 because there is no room for her.
133. nypinta
I think maybe she's decided she has to "spread her wings" so to speak so she isn't there for 4.06, but 4.07 seems to be in an alt-universe of Dyson's mind so there really is no reason for her. And it might not be ZP's favorite for doccubus reasons. I think she really likes working with KHR. They don't actually get too many scenes together. And IIRC KHR said that it was he and ZP that went to the writers and asked that they back off the Lauren/Dyson animosity and really wanted that scene in the bar where they're both waxing poetic about Bo after Lauren breaks up with Bo. And who knows, maybe we finally get to see a mechanical bull. Could happen.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
134. Kiersten
I have to agree w/@nypita about 4.07 being ZP's favorite more because she and KHR get to the rare chance to work together rather than that it's Doccubus heavy (though it could be both given the players). Those two love each other and love working together and produce great onscreen work. Mustve been a treat for them both.

Interesting that Bo, who is currently Dark Fae, and DL, whose now aligned to the Dark Fae, go into Dyson's, a Light Fae warrior, mind when he's on trial (shades of Faetal Justice). Implies that something in 4.06 may change Bo's Fae status OR that The Morrigan sends the two women into Dyson's head for some reason OR that Dyson changes his allegience for Bo's sake, if that's possible, though that would be the most outlandish of options since, if she proves she was tricked into aligning Dark and goes back to unaligned, he'd be stuck.

Jury's still out on the mechanical bull...
Dine Stueg
135. Nocturne

this is my first post here. I ship Hale/Kenzi, but since I'm sure it is going to take a loooong while before they really get together, I'm trying to make the waiting a little shorter by reading and commenting here. English isn't my first language, so I already apologise in advance for mistakes.

I really like how passionate you all are about the show and how you use real arguments for your views. It's different from the other forums about Lost Girl.

This episode was alright for me. I really loved Vex and his story, and the dance off. I didn't like Pietra. She seemed to be out of place and too dramatic like a fangirl. Lastly, I didn't understand Laurens reasoning for joining the dark.

@Darthfaeder. When they were supposedly filming episode 6 and 7 of this season, Rachel was tweeting she was at other places. So that's why there's speculation that she won't be in these episodes. I do hope they give a good explanation for her not being there, since she's mentally a child now and can't be left alone.

I hopre you're right and episode 7 is more about Lauren and Dyson bonding than about Doccubus. It would be a nice change if Dyson and Lauren actually become more friendly. SPOILER >>However, when you read the synopsis for episode 8 it's about Dyson and Lauren disagreeing about a package for Bo. So I don't think a real friendship is evolving.
136. stacymd2
@nypinta: It’s every other character being used to prop up Wonder Lauren making her even more of a Mary Sue that I’m dreading. It’s the sinking feeling that TPTB will have Dyson do something unspeakable in order to make Lauren look decent in comparison is what I don’t want to watch. Dyson is on trial for murder (again). Is Lost Girl going to put Lauren on trial for murdering 11 people? How about working with & helping Taft? Running from the Light? The latter two has already been walked back.

If 407 is just more Doccubus sexy time and Lauren backstory, then it would be just another episode like all of season 3 & most of season 2. It’s the Dyson on trial for murder that thing that is annoying…
Katherine Bloom
137. lsbloom
EA is an idiot. Logic is the enemy of story? Please send her to a writing course. How did she get such an awesome job pissing away someone else's great, well thought out, planned story? She should be fired.

Angry isn't the same as engaged. And if you have to tease and yank fans around to pretend they are engaged, then you haven't written a compelling story. You've written a frustrating story. And the only reason that story exists is because you are slowly eroding the good will created by someone else. Her lack of logic, consistency and frankly effort are writing checks her pathetic showrunning skills can't cash. EA isn't engaging fans, she losing them by the hundreds and thousands every week. The ratings are a small fraction of what they were in season 1. If this had been EA's from the beginning they would have been cancelled.

How is it that so many people would kill to write for television and this moron has a job?
138. TheUberFan
Actually that interview made me kind of nervous. My favorite characters are Kenzi, Tamsin and Bo and while Kenzi got some props for the dancing and stuff...there was very little said about Tamsin.

Sigh. Long live the bloody triangle I guess.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
139. Kiersten
@Nocture - Welcome! We have several regular commenters for whom English is not their first language, so you are in very good company. I'm so glad you added your voice to our conversation.
However, when you read the synopsis for episode 8 it's about Dyson and Lauren disagreeing about a package for Bo.
This worries me because, if I remember the synopsis right, Dyson doesn't want to give it to Bo and Doctor Lauren does, which means we're probably going to be forced back into the fallacy that Dyson keeps things from Bo while Doctor Lauren is all about revealing everything (despite her many deceptions and lies). But I guess there's nothing to do now but wait and see.
I really like how passionate you all are about the show and how you use real arguments for your views. It's different from the other forums about Lost Girl.
It's comments like these that make my many, many, many nights with little to no sleep in order to get the recaps done by deadline and/or due to monitoring and moderating this community totally and completely worth it. Thank you very much, Nocturne.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
140. Kiersten
Dyson is on trial for murder (again). Is Lost Girl going to put Lauren on trial for murdering 11 people? How about working with & helping Taft? Running from the Light? The latter two has already been walked back.

Come on now. Poor, betrayed Doctor Lauren didn't know when she made the pipe bomb and gave it to her terrorist brother to blow up a building that bombs kill people too! It's not her fault! Sure, she broke up with her lover and deliberately disobeyed Hale to go off with Taft of her own free will. But when she miraculously recognized that the blood she was experimenting with came from a mature succubus, she didn't know that meant Taft was imprisoning Dark and Light Fae to experiment on them. It's not her fault! And when she'd stole the cabbit's DNA and then medically tortured Dyson to "trick" Taft, she was really saving everyone! Poor dear should be given a medal at least.

Yeah, that upcoming scenario makes my head implode with its implications. If there's one sure thing about Lost Girl at this point, it's that Dyson will be sacrificed/endagered/tortured about something while DL is excused for all her many crimes. Whatever one can say about Dyson, he's never tortured people for science and he's never blown people up (also known as mass murder), accidentally or otherwise, and yet somehow he continues to be the bad guy in this "triangle"? Please.

At this point, I think if DL killed Dyson, she'd be made Queen of the Fae. Certainly brutally operating on him against his will was seen as "saving" him and everyone else, so if she killed him, it'd likely be her crowning glory. I can't even.
Nusi Dekker
141. NusiD
I was rewatching the 3rd season of LG on DVD and in the "Dawning" episode, Bo was offered a tableful of weapons (which I assumed belong to Trick) in case she wanted to take one with her. That curved knife with the unusual sheath that Vex used to cut off his hand was there on Trick's table. It would be cool if the knife was one of the items that Kenzi stole from Trick to pay Massimo and it came back to bite Kenzi in the butt later.

That would be very interesting if Aoife ate the Una Mens seed. On the other hand, it would be terrible if Hale did it. As a Una Mens, he would be obligated to torture Kenzi to death, and would feel no emotion about it. Brrr.

That was pretty gross, what the Una Mens did to Vex. First, they torture him practically naked on a rack, then force-feed him some disgusting thing that compels him (along with a spell that reverses the effect of an anesthetic) to cut off his own hand. They could probably compel him to cut the other hand off at any time, too. BTW, where did Bo drive Vex, or did she just leave him there with blood all over Dyson's new "apartment"? And I missed the part where Dyson decides to move out of his old place to the police gym because of the boxing ring?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
142. Kiersten
@NusiD - I dont believe that was Dyson's apt, but rather that it was near his apt. I'm not sure b/c when Bo looked around, she called his name, but I think that's because she was just there with him boxing and banging. There's no reason for him to have abandoned his place, certainly no reason to downgrade that badly to a mattress on the floor in the back room of a shoddy boxing gym. I think Vex was squatting but who knows with this show?
143. stacymd2
@UberFaenatic: I do feel for fans who hope to see more Kenzi/Hale or Bo/Tamsin. TPTB just are not interested in romance outside of Lauren, Doccubus, pseudo-triangle, more Doccubus.

Welcome @Nocturne & @bonobo! I love reading new voices on here.

@lsbloom: I chuckled when I read, “We do, but we’re lax in updating it…” No kidding Emily.

@NusiD: Regarding the curved knife…Wow, great catch. I hope Massimo isn’t dead so we can find out about him and Evony.
144. nypinta
I thought they said it was his new place too. But I was thinking he lived in an apartment above the gym, like Duncan in Highlander when he bought the dojo. (Duncan had great taste in living quarters, btw.... *sigh*)
145. TheUberFan
I almost forgot my shipping Kenzi and Hale because we barely see the guy anymore. But I've shipped them since season 1 when they were taking bets as to how long Bo and Dyson would be on again.

I guess I'm just not sure I understand the point of the show anymore. Last season, it looked to me like they showed very clearly that regardless of feelings, Bo and Lauren were incompatible, which is why I stopped shipping them. The reality of them was different from the idea of them.

But now I feel that they'll go to whatever lengths to keep pushing it even though it doesn't make sense. But now I see that logic is the enemy of storytelling. Or something.

So whatever.

Also, haven't we seen a Dyson framed for murder story before? Are they just going to recycle old plots or something? Maybe we'll get another body swap episode or another pod coma lover.

Kiersten Hallie Krum
146. Kiersten
@nypita - if it is his new place - I hate it. Duncan's place was AMAZING

@Uberfantatic - me too! Go Kenzi & Hale
Kiersten Hallie Krum
147. Kiersten
@Uberfaenatic - yeah, he was framed in S1 Faetal Justice, which was also the episode where he and Bo moved even more closely toward each other romantically. I'm not sure if this is more "look we heard you, we're getting back to the Urban Fantasy stuff, see?" sorta thing (of which I generally approve) or what but it's too obvious not to be deliberate.
148. TheUberFan
Yeah I remember that one well. You'd laugh if I told you how many times I've rewatched the series. lol

I loved it too because we got to see another wolf shifter (and to my knowledge, we've only seen 3 in the series so far) and of course we got to learn a little more about Dyson's past.

I just feel like the show is missing something or that we're only getting part of the story.

Case in point. The scavenger fae walks around the corner...and kills ...who? for the knife she needs. I didn't get that entire sequence at all but it was shot in such a way that it should have been obvious to the viewer. Well, hmm, it wasn't to me. I don't know who that was or how she got the knife or how the scavenger fae knew where to find the knife or anything about the entire scenario. I'll try rewatching because I already have to rewatch the Una Mens/Trick sequences because there is so much meat there in his backstory that I know I missed something.

Maybe seeing the scavenger fae randomly murder someone will make sense this time.
149. nypinta
Maybe her randomly murdering someone was the point? That she, as a Dark, is OK stabbing a person to death while two people are just around a corner waiting? Because nothing in that sequence made sense to me at all. I wondered at the time if the person under the bags was the real Pietra and this fae was an imposter but nothing every came of it. Maybe it will down the line?
150. TheUberFan
Wow...that actually helps me a bit there @nypinta. Of course, why wouldn't the Morrigan know she was a phony though? Hmm.

I know. Asking for logic. Like why we heard Trick's voice over the Morrigan's speakers or why Lauren would not enlist Bo to help her out.

Or why Dyson is out there looking for Lauren and no one thinks to text the guy to let him know she's back in town.

But logic is the enemy of storytelling and we have to have good storytelling, even if it doesn't make sense.
Katherine Bloom
151. lsbloom
Gotta say, Dyson still being off actively looking for Lauren while Lauren has willingly given herself to the Dark's control is so offensive. Can't anyone cut the guy a break? Pick up the phone? I get that Lauren is so self-centered that she can't call ANYONE to tell them she's back and "safe." But Bo can't call Dyson and let him come home.

I thought the crappy boxing ring was Dyson's new place. Downgrade, and I'm not sure why. But I thought I remembered them calling it that and making arguments about why Vex would be staying in that area.

I thought there was more to the scavenger and the Morrigan than Bo picked up on. But unless she was a backstabbing ex-girlfriend with more secrets than the NSA, I'm not sure anything was gonna break through to Bo. The stabbing was confusing, at first I thought it was the bride because of the white dress, but that chick was already dead and on the other side of town. I'm guessing much like the Dawning coming early EA and her brilliant "let it all happen off screen" philosophy feel like they've been totally clear about everything.
152. nypinta
I'm going to assume that once Bo saw Lauren, after they got done with the hot and heavy, she sent Dyson a message saying Lauren was back. Probably off screen. Where all the actual stuff happens. Why Lauren didn't call Dyson herself I have no idea. Unless she's decided she's pissed at him for not coming to her rescue earlier.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
153. Kiersten
Did anyone listen to EA's interview yet (as opposed to read the summary as I did)? I'm getting the sense therer may be some good in the real deal...
154. nypinta
Not yet. Good in the real deal?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
156. Kiersten
Dunno. Its doccubi who are saying how great an interview is so my hope is faint...
Carmen Pinzon
157. bungluna
I'm so confused by this point that the only ray of sunshine at the end of the tunnel is the fact that, (I hope!), Kiersten will be doing her wonderful recaps when the show runs on SyFy. Maybe then I'll figure out just what the hell is going on?
158. TheUberFan
Yep. I listened to it and that's why I posted my comment about being nervous about how the season will go. lol

I will add though that we might get that payoff from the Kenzi/Morrigan debt from season 2 given her tone.

But beyond that it felt like mostly a Lauren/Doccubus love fest and I wish I were exaggerating.
Katherine Bloom
159. lsbloom
Isn't drinksatthedahl basically an offshoot of by created their regular posters?

I would expect her to be especially pander-y when talking to those individuals.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
160. Kiersten
@bungluna - yes, I will be doing the recaps following the SyFy schedule in January, though I can guarantee in no way whether that will make things clearer. Probably will make them funnier though. We'll laugh through our pain...again.

I was so excited over the first four eps of this season. Things were sharp and fast and fun and stakes are high and Bo and Dyson were moving back toward each other and for once it look like DL might actually be held accountable for her crimes for a bloody change.

Then in one episode and with one interview I now have the sick stomach misery I had all through S3. I don't like Bo in this episode at all, but then Doctor Lauren always brings out her worst qualities. Everything mature and lovely and emotional she displayed in E3 (and not only with Dyson) is gone. I can't *believe* all that DL did is being swept away without so much as the tiniest objection from Bo AGAIN. Even Dyson is now singing the "Bo loves Lauren" song over and over again like some emasculated martyr and taking whatever crumbs Bo brushes off her bed which is *so* against character and Kenzi has been reduced to saying DL is"good people".

Two seasons of this was two too many. Show, I'm beginning to have oh so many reasons why I *can* quit you.
161. TheUberFan
Feel free to continue to imbibe me with hope, @lsbloom because right now I'm a pint low.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
162. Kiersten
@lsbloom - maybe, but regardless of to whom the interview is given, she's accountable to the entire audience for what she says especially when she's personally promoting it.
Katherine Bloom
163. lsbloom
Ah, @Kiersten. I've been hard enough on EA's poor professionalism and skills today. I thought I'd throw her a little bone.
164. TheUberFan
Oh and please don't anyone take my personal take on this interview as gospel. I'm a smidgen bitter and that's skewing my interpretation. So maybe someone else here can listen to the whole thing and let me know if my biases are coloring how I heard things.
Nadine Robb
165. cmm
Looks like I may not be watching the rest of the season from the likes of these comments.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
166. Kiersten
@lsbloom - you're not wrong to throw the occassional bone. And it is a pro-doccubus site, so there's that too. My ragey impulses aside, I like EA a lot for several reasons, I just hate how this show has gone under her direction (cough season three cough). When I get too doccusaturated, I tend to post first and after I calm down re-evaluate with my saner, less emo head. I just wish we could have *something* not doccuslanted some time.

Maybe I should work on that...

Also, I'm gonna come up with a drinking game on how many ways can play with the word "doccubus" because the idea alone just cracked me up and made me feel better
Nadine Robb
168. cmm
LOL! I won't even use word to describe THAT COUPLE. They will always be that couple to me and to be quite honest EA hasn't met a fan like me. I don't get enraged and keep watching I get angered and quit. Right now I'm really into Almost human and Sleepy Hollow. They are leaps and bounds far superior to Lost Girl. EA could take a page out of their book when writing Lost Girl.
169. drusilla_doll
I was just going to ask if Kiersten had watched any Sleepy Hollow yet. That show in its first season seems so rich on character and story. The leads are fabulous and exude chemistry and have sold a great bond forming between them. But it's not overtly sexual/romantic, which I am actually enjoying. It has two significant leads as POC and a third recurring gal - Abby's sister - who reminds me of Sarah Connor in the 2nd Terminator. It's a breath of fresh air in terms of new genre shows: intelligent, creepy and still having pretty men and women to enjoy looking at.
170. nypinta
I would have no problem with Lauren/Bo if they didn't keep trying to rewrite Lauren. That's when things like show bibles come in handy. Because the audience always remembers. The fact that so many like to joke about Lauren's age and all that they are trying to say she's done in her life is testament that their additional backstories for Lauren are a distraction because they make no sense. I think it was Neil Gaiman that said fiction has to make more sense than reality. And it's true. I get that sometimes you have to change course or go in a different direction than you might have originally intended on TV shows due to outside influences, but if you're good enough the fans shouldn't be able to note the course corrections. On Lost Girl, they are glaring. Growth is preferred to fan wanking bulking of any character. On Angel, Wes has one of the greatest character arcs IMO ever. He goes from a book smart goof to a bad ass that takes on Hell itself. And he did it in a natural progression. He went dark. He was downright despicable at times. But he was epic and awesome and I adored watching him as he went from deluded "best boy" with no real understanding of what it meant to be a Watcher to a man that walked into the heart of enemy territory and kept his soul. So it can be done. But they're trying to take short cuts with Lauren. That's kind of insulting to the actors, IMO, as well as the audience.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
171. Kiersten

God, that show is SO GOOD from writing to acting to mythology... holy crap their plot consistency across episodes is MIND BOGGLING. It's like JK Rowling planting things in Book 2 that resolve in Book 7 level of plotting. Also TOM MISON.

I need to go lie down now.

Seriously, I could (and have) gleefully deconstruct the magnificience that is Sleepy Hollow for HOURS it is that good. Love Abbie's sister Jen. Orlando Jones is the greatest thing since sliced bread with peanut butter on it.
172. TheUberFan
Sounds interesting. I'll have to give it a look. I'll probably have to find a new fae-n obession should LG take turns that don't interest me.

There's a couple of things that, if they'd happen, would probably nudge me off the show. Which is amazing, because I never thought I'd get to that point.
173. nypinta
Sleepy Hollow is amazing. When I first saw the ads I laughed so hard but I knew I just had to see it. I thought it was going to be hilariously bad. Boy was I wrong. It was fantastic. I adore Crane, (but please please please can Abby take him cloths shopping?! At least get him some new shoes?), and Abby, and Irving. I ship Irving and Jenny so much. Jenny's just a bad ass. Love her. The effects are minimal but spooky. And where they film actually looks like upstate NY. Kudos on that one.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
174. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic - GO watch it. It's really, really good. Its only 13 episodes, which is rare for a U.S. show but it means no filler so every ep is fast-paced and chock full of goodeness. In 10 eps, there was only 1 misstep episode. Writers etc are on twitter & OrlandJones on twitter and tumblr is hilarious b/c he gets the 'ship thing & has a ball with it.
Nadine Robb
175. cmm
High five to kiersten and drusilla_doll for watching the perfection that is sleepy hollow!
176. drusilla_doll
@Kiersten, omg girl you had me giggling in the worst way at your gushing over SH. Hell to the YES. I really hope H&H reviews it someday, because the writing and acting is stellar. Just watched the latest ep with Noble as a guest star and it made me tear up several times. That show knows how to make an audience care and become engaged. EA could learn a thing or two about consistency, character driven plots and emotional investment from SH. Just saying.

@Nypinta: I am the biggest Wes fan ever. LOL. I adore the character. His character arc over 5+ seasons was heartwrenching and ultimately tragic but everything made organic sense. He went from pompous buffoon, to geeky insecure puppy, to unrequited lover, to complicated betrayer, to bitter jaded badass, to tragic lover, to depressed alcoholic, to resigned fighter...words just can't express how much I loved him. Because he was the essence of a flawed human. He never was a super-hero and yet despite his many failures he still picked himself up and continued on and fought the good fight - no matter what it cost him personally.
Carmen Pinzon
177. bungluna
I was at that point during S3 and the only thing that kept me going were Kiersten's re-caps, for real!

I'm enjoying Grimm myself, and how Julliete is turning into a good UF sidekick as opposed to the angst-provoking, TSTL, needing rescue idiot drag love interest that is usual in this type of show (WonderLauren being a perfect example!)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
178. Kiersten
@Nypita - I ship Jenny & Irving too. Serious chemistry there. I love how Abbie & Crane connect together and have zero sexual sparkage in their epic amounts of chemistry. It's refreshing.

There are a bunch of posts here on H&H about Sleepy Hollow if anyone would like to do a general search and get a primer.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
179. Kiersten
Sorry I neglected to say that I adored Wesley. What a fantastic character arc. I raged when he died but at least it was the end of the series and it was ridiculously organic. Unlike, say, Wash's death.
180. TheUberFan
Wow...with that kind of enthusiasm, I'll have to watch it now. :)
Nadine Robb
181. cmm
@Kiersten I ship Abbie/Icabod LOL! But i'm not so wrapped up in it that I can't enjoy the show. I'm dying to know how Crane is gonna deliver Abbie's soul to Molock.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
182. Kiersten
@Bungluna - I really liked GRIMM a lot when it started, but S2 was so bad, especially the Juliet story, they lost me. I still DVR it & will watch it but I'm barely paying any attention to it (how is Adalaide STILL pregnant??). I only hanging in to see GrimmMommy return because she was majorly badass and the show launched hard when she appeared.
183. drusilla_doll
I need to seek those out and read them, because I am in love with the show right now. I also ship Jenny and Irving like crazy. I ship Ichabod and Abby but not in a romantic way, just....I don't know, family? Agape? If that makes sense. I do get that Ichabod is still in love with Katrina and that's supposed to be a tragic love story. Just....Abby is so amazing, I can't help but love how smart and compassionate she is and she is like the Crane-whisperer. Fun and poignant at the same time.

What I particularly love about the show right now is that people share things. Their fears, odd shit that goes down, revelations which might impact other people. So far there's none of that 'I'm keeping a secret to increase the drama artificially' nonsense.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
185. Kiersten
The Crane Whisperer. Oh, that's priceless. When I tweeted the writers how much I loved Crane deconstructing how the meanings of words had change between his time and present and how that was nearly as good as the Yolanda the NorthStar lady cold open segment a few weeks ago, they sent me this link to an EW article that I found fascinating. It's a great read.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
186. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll Isnt that refreshing?! They tell one another everything, right away. There's no manufactured conflict to delay things, no dragging out of plot points, no angsty romantic pining. There's no time for that - the apocalypse is now!

I really think shows should be broken down across the board to 13 episodes, especially genre shows. It works so much better than the heavy-weighted normal 22 schedule with highs during sweeps and filler in between. Writers and producers have to make every single scene work and worthwhile, there's no room for chaff. Sleepy Hollow. Orphan Black. Justified. There's amazing work being done in the 13-episode format that makes it the way to go. I think networks are catching on as shows like SH and Hostages (which I dont watch) and the upcoming January debut of Intelligence are in 10- or 13-episode blocks that, so far, are mad successes.
187. drusilla_doll
@Kiersten Oh, totally. I would also have high hopes for Almost Human if it wasn't on Fox. The 13 episode format seems to be working in terms of writers being forced to cut the chaff from the wheat. Let's hope it ulitmately bears fruit for the genre-loving public.

I am happily awaiting Orphan Black's return to TV. That, too, has been tight with its plotting and character development. First seasons are, however, often the pinnacle of a ground-breaking show. Heroes, for example, never reached the same heights as its first season did, so there's some apprehension. Still, I am looking forward to the next year. I'm hopeful that we'll get some worthy stories to enjoy.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
188. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll - its funny; every week I have to remind myself that SH is on Fox. I automatically turn on NBC looking for it. Then when Agents of Shield is on, I automatically switch on FOX and have spent a full 30 secs trying to figure out why its not there. Both shows are tonally off for the networks that carry them. I cant believe I so mad crazy for a show that airs on the FOX channel.

And hell yes to the train wreck that was Heroes after the great first season - except for the S1 finale, which shouldve been our first clue.
189. nypinta
Almost Human is pretty damn good. And funny. I watched Heroes. The problem with Heroes is somewhat the problem with Lost Girl now, they ditched story just to bring back fan favorite characters and then kept rewriting those characters to the point that you stopped caring about the show because the story no longer mattered. If it doesn't to the people telling it why should it to the people watching?
Nadine Robb
190. cmm
@nypita Agreed. I think I stopped watching heroes for just that reason. I didn't get it when skylar (i think) took peters powers. Just didn't make sense. Lost Girl writers would be wise to see what caused the demise of that show. BTW how did you like the life sized ken doll comment lol?
Carmen Pinzon
191. bungluna
@cmm - I loved it!

I've come to loath shows that depend too heavily on an over-reaching arc and shun the single episode story. I've been burned too many times by shows that started out very strong but then just went nowhere. When the show depends solely on the one concept hook, or asking endless questions and never answering 'em, I just turn it off and move somewhere else. I've come to the conclussion that the truth is never out there.
Nusi Dekker
192. NusiD
Another Sleepy Hollow fan here. I do love watching Ichabod and Abby together, and their non-sexual dynamic totally works! Also love the sin-eater!

I rewatched "Delinquents" tonight right before Agents of Shield came on, and it was one of the more choppy episodes of LG. I mean, first, they're at the Dal. Then they're at the camp. Then at the HH. Then back at the camp. Then back at HH. Then at the camp. Then at DL's loft. Yeesh, it kind of reminded me of Alias, Where the gang would meet in SD6 HQ. Then they'd suddenly be in Moscow. Then back at HQ, then instantly in remote Chile, like they teleported themselves or something. Like LG, Alias defied logic.
Susan White
194. whiskeywhite
Let me add to the welcomes @Nocturne & @bonobo! @Nocturne, I really apreciate your saying that you like our "real arguments". That's so important to me -- clear, logical (OMG, not logical!) arguments backed up with solid evidence -- dialogue quotations and accurate descriptions of scenes. Not fantasy summaries of plot that never happened. Or incoherent ravings.

Although I have to say, dearest fellow LG lovers, the raving about Lauren and associated plot here is getting to be a bit boring for my taste. How about we all take a deep breath and a chill pill? There are lots of other interesting things to talk about.

For instance, while having the plots revolve more around the central characters is fine, I miss the fae monster of the week in that it was an opportunity to bring in mythological creatures from many cultures around the world (something that originally very much attracted me to the series). Even though they weren't always accurately portrayed (e.g., they take the Garuda, a cultural hero across much of Asia and make him the bad guy).

@lsbloom, you said: "The ratings are a small fraction of what they were in season 1." Do have ratings info for season 4? (in language non statisticians can understand?)

I loved Almost Human when it started. Major eye candy, especially (for me) Michael Ealy. I loved the two partners -- human and robot -- learning to understand each other. But as I feared, once the basics of that were accomplished (in the first two eps) I find it's settled into standard crime fighting shoot-em-up with them firing barbs at each other and regular jokes about male sex organs thrown in. I'm not sure that Ealy is enough to keep me.

But then I discovered Sleepy Hollow because it follows Almost Human on the Canadian station where I watch it. I agree with all that's been said here. But I missed the early episodes so I'm going to have to catch up on the plot. An admirable example, BTW, of a show with Blacks in lead roles, and a Black woman at that.

Speaking of which, I see @stacymd2 that you share my enthusiasm for the (somewhat) return of 'minority' actors. Yay! (though Hale is MIA again). One tiny point -- my partner has a t-shirt that sums it up. It says "Minority, n. The term used to refer to the majority of the world's people." I would say actors of colour. Did you know that women used to be referred to as a 'minority' in the US? Even though they (we) are in fact the majority? That's because 'minority' was shorthand/euphemism for 'people with less power'. In Canada our bonehead gov't refers to people of colour as 'visible minorities'. Don't get me started!
196. Jd24JDL
I am very sadden because I came here to this blog hoping to find lost girl fans, only to find so much hate and negativity about the show and their characters and I had to say something because you took something that I love and turn it into a bash session for bitter and angry people.

I find that these kind of blogs are for people who have nothing better to do than pick apart characters of a show they supposedly love. I find that your responses of the DL are ludicris and have no story barring other than you are all Dyson lovers.

Please if you want to pick the characters apart do them all and find all the faults in them, and then look at your own lives and see if they resemble things about your own character flaws.

It is sad that you claim to be Lost Girl Fans, yet you pick it apart! Love it and watch it with the fun and insight that they bring to the world, or stop watching it and find something that you can watch without slamming the characters so much and find positive remarks for the show and its characters.

Dyson is no saint as well, he lies, hides things, is a total fae creep when it comes to caring about the humans, he wants Bo only because he can't have her, and shes good in the sack. Yet he has just as many good qualities as bad, when he decides he cares about you, he will stick his neck out on the line, and of course so does DL who you bash every chance you get.

Evony is mean, vanity has its hold on her, she has a god complex and is very unsure of herself, and has a lack of friends and family that stand by her out of love, I don't think she has ever felt that emotion before in her life.

Vex is superficial and a total baby fae brat, but has good reason from his backstory, His family was killed off and he had to watch and knew if he didn't serve the Dark Fae he too would be dead within days.

Hale, spoiled brat of wealth, trying to rebell against daddy and family traditions for attention but cares for Fae and humans good quality, is in love with Kenzi but because of fears of what others will say holds it in his heart and continues to bash words at her.

TamTam a total Snarky Bitch last season just had to hurt Bo and Take her down, yet never really had a chance for friends since after all is a Valkyrie and a life of doom is her style, but has found a new life with new friends and has the opportunity to choose who and how she wants to live in her last lifetime.

Kenzi is a street thug who steals, lies, cheats takes advantage of anyone she can rob blind, yet has a historyto support her life style. She had bad step father that locked her in closet and made her feel like nothing, left home so early that she had to resort to a life of crime to survive. However Kenzi loves with her whole soul. If she loves you depite all her flaws she is willing to die for you and has proven that time and time again.

Doctor Lewis, yes has done things in her past that she wishes she hadn't but truly haven't we all? She is well educated, she has been treated like shit by the fae from the get go, she was in a life of servatude with no hope of happiness. She stayed true to Nadia until all but had given up. Doctors will tell anyone to move on if someone is in a coma for 5 years, so she found Bo and did exactly that, cant blame her for wanting a little happiness for herself, can any of you say you wouldn't want happiness either? She has saved Fae time after time, if it weren't for here most the Faw would have did in the Congo and the Garuda, she gave her self over to the Fae, and learned to accecpt her slavery and do her best to save the Fae at all cost and helping humans when possible. She helped Bo behind the Ashes back, mind you he was a (Corrupt) light Fae leader. She saved Kenzi, Dyson several times, and many others never complaining about it, until she wanted help and they laughed at her and treated her like chattel. She was the only person in a 1000 years to figure a way to perserve the Naga Venom to save all of the Fae, it wasn't Dyson, Hale, Trick, the Morrígan, Vex it was Doctor Lewis. People Lay off the poor character shes been treated the worst by the Fae, the writers and the Fans.

Bo is a selfish girl who has a lot of growing up to do and Vex said it best in the last episode, it's all about you, you, you. She has caused the issues between Dyson and Lauren by her undecisiveness. She would have stayed with Dyson yet he played games with the Norn, then he treated her harsh in seasons 2&3 but her Heart fell for Lauren, and she wasn't manipualted to do so either. I for one don't care if Bo ends up with any of them, in some ways she doesn't deserve it, on the other hand I just want her to be happy for that is what life is truly about isn't it? Yet she was dealt a raw deal from the get go. Born from pain, given away into captivity of a human family that was Religous freaks, that ingrained into her that sex was evil therefore she was evil. She had no clue about her unique situation so she ran, and ran, till she found the Fae, and now wants to live her life without the Fae and Religious Bullshit. She has a lot of room for growth as a woman, a fae, and as a lover in a relationship.

Trick, well he lies, control, minipulates and takes hold of thing for the ego that he has as the Blood King, We learned that he was once the Lakin Chan, and a Blood Mage and he was corrupt as well. He isn't as innocent as he leads us to belive. Yet he's been instrumental in the Fae Lore.

There now that we see there good and the bad, can we move on to something better to do than Trash a show that has good intentions to take people for a journey, who have great Characters, and the Best actors in the world!

Grow up and move on to something that truly matters in the realm of things like your family, friends, children, husbands, wives, animals. End this pettiness and enjoy the show, or don't watch it, then blog bad stuff about it. Critque the writers not the character or the actors that portray them because its just a show, really!

A person who sees reality and wants the world to be a better place, and believe me if I come across a Dyson hating blog I'll say the same to them as well.

Love is the reason were here, and what binds us together so enjoy the love of the show, actors, writers, and other fans.

Thank you
A concerned fan!
198. TheUberFan
Actually it's because we love it that we're critical when we see glaring problems. If we didn't love it, we wouldn't care. :)

I am tired of talking triangle though and I really do want to glom onto Vex and the Morrigan more. And I really want to know the full scoop between the Trickster and the Una Mens because I just feel Trick is playing a very dangerous game of chicken with them.

I want to know more about Tamsin too because I have ALWAYS been fascinated by valkyries. So I want to see and learn as much as I can about her kind as well as more about her as an individual as well. For instance, was Massimo right? Is the last life of a valkyrie indicated by wings? How many lifetimes do valkyries live? How long is a lifetime? What does it take to kill a valkyrie/how strong are they?

It's one of my main fantasy loves. The others are Gryphons and the pegasus. But other than a mention by Dyson last season about wanting to be a gryphon since he was a boy, we've seen none. And no pegasus.

Oh wait! Emanuelle Vaughier wants a pony. Wouldn't it be awesome to see her on a pegasus pony? ;)
202. nypinta
I appreciated you "concern" @Jd24JDL but I find it completely disingenuous. You aren't concerned about anything but the fact that there are a lot of posts critical of a character you like. Period.

"I find that your responses of the DL are ludicris and have no story barring other than you are all Dyson lovers."

Make your case. No wait. You'd rather shove everyone here in one group. THAT'S ludicris.

"Please if you want to pick the characters apart do them all and find all the faults in them..."

I am not going to participate in false equivency just to appease anyone. The writers have done the most damage to the character of Lauren with her illogical stated reasons, her hamfisted backstory, and either having other characters be props for her or completely ignore what she has done. Why should I have to counter my opinions on that by posting about other characters, if I don't have anything to say about them?

"Hale, spoiled brat of wealth, trying to rebell against daddy and family traditions for attention..."

Wow. Is this an example of what we are supposed to post in order to not be a blog of bitter people? I don't know what show you are watching but Hale is not spoiled. His father is a bigoted asshat and Hale is right to reject their "traditions" if he doesn't agree with them. Is this your idea of thoughtful critique? Again: wow.

Clearly you haven't read all the posts because if you had you wouldn't have posted half of what you did that I'm not going to bother to retort. You didn't take the effort, so why should I?

I've said time and again that Lauren was mistreated by the Fae and I applauded her standing up for herself and deciding the leave the Light. I just can't stand that the writers gave her such bullshit to say to Bo when explaining why she is with the Dark, because it MAKES NO SENSE. And I will never not point out when a story doesn't make sense.

"Grow up and move on to something that truly matters in the realm of things like your family, friends, children, husbands, wives, animals. End this pettiness and enjoy the show, or don't watch it, then blog bad stuff about it. Critque the writers not the character or the actors that portray them because its just a show, really!"

Again, clearly not reading the posts. And why do you get to decide what is worth my time and what isn't? Why do you get to decide what I should do, what to watch, how to post?

"A person who sees reality and wants the world to be a better place, and believe me if I come across a Dyson hating blog I'll say the same to them as well."

If you version of wanting the world to be a better place is to come to a site about entertainment and bitch about people posting about entertainment I don't think I want to live in your world. And BTW, the Dyson hating blog is called Have at it.

@UberFaenatic I'm mostly tired of the love triangle taking up so much time in the story and being forced into every episode. Because, like you, I would love to know more about Vex and the Morrigan and Trick and his connection to the Una Mens and what exactly he did way back when (that of course is now going to bite everyone else in the butt....), ect. I also want to see how Trick and Dyson met and how Dyson came to work for him. I'd also like to finally get some more backstory on Kenzi. We know she left home at a very young age and in the first season she was on the phone with her cousin and they went to see an Aunt but since then, nothing. Where is her mother? Why hasn't she gotten an episode where she goes back home?

@ whiskeywhite I'm going to disagree about wanting to go back to the fae monster of the week format. Although I liked getting into fae mythology they didn't seem to utilize what they had. The first two seasons really should have been the fae monster of the week and had Bo actually shown to learn along the way and so many episodes had guest characters that would have been great assets for situations later that were ignored or forgotten. In the first few episodes of seaons one Bo uses phrases like, "contacts" and "calling in a debt" because she's immersed herself in the fae world and is taking cases and fixing problems and in return later she gets to call on this lush assortment of minor guest characters. That stopped. And that disappoints me. I swear the only reason they brought back Vex as a reccuring character is because the cast practically went on strike because they loved working with him so much. (That is pure speculation and maybe a bit of a fantasy because the idea of them all carrying signs outside the writers room giggles me, but in many interviews and in convention Q&As they all waxed poetic on Vex and Paul Amos.) Although they haven't given us many answers about hanging questions, this season seems better at melding the obstacle of the week with an ongoing story. And this season they seem to be trying to call back to things from what they should have built in the first seasons. But really, all of Kenzi's problems about feeling vulnerable and weak would have been solved if Hale had just gotten the Stick of Righteousness back for her.

As for Trick and the Una Mens, I don't think they do recognize him, no. I think a lot of who the fae were when they knew him has been removed when they took the seed. Or maybe the fae that were chosen to become the Una Mens never actually met him in person. And now that I'm thinking about it, the episode with Dyson's memories will probably hold a lot of answers about Trick... I hope.
203. TheUberFan

One thing I'm really interested in knowing is the Dyson time table.

They showed us his distant past with Ciara and his clan that before or after he met Trick?

Or did he meet Trick as a result of being disillusioned by his friend being murdered for the glory of the king he had served?

Has he pledged fealty to Trick? How deep do his loyalties lie? We know he was willing to defy Trick for the sake of Bo and he also took a stand to tell Bo about Aife...but beyond that, he's been pretty willing to listen to and obey Trick's orders.

Regarding Hale...

He is the precise opposite of 'spoiled brat.' In fact, he rejects most of what his family stands for. He rejects their bigotry and how cold they are in the face of danger. He is the dark horse of the Zamora clan, having thumbed his nose at the family name in order to forge his own path. He took Kenzi home to meet the folks and you just know that, while sure he wanted to stick it to them, he also loves her...which would be looked at poorly by his fae only family.

It's what made his time as Ash such a disappointment, because I was hoping he'd use that time to try to make real changes in the Light Fae. At least show that he attempted to. Instead it looked as though he just went with how things were rather than bucked against the system, until Hail Hale and Those Who Wander, where we saw him trying to fight.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
204. Kiersten
@Jd24JDL - Hi and welcome. Thanks for adding your voice to our conversation. I'm only sorry you find it so lacking.

I do love Lost Girl, or at least the show it was in season one that gripped me so intently. There's been enough shades of that original show to keep me watching through the last two overall disappointing seasons and what I've seen of S4 so far leads me to think we're headed back to that great original Urban Fantasy theme. Part of loving something is having high expectations and when those expectations aren't met and/or are consistently disappointed, there needs to be a place to talk about that. We discuss every single character here, the good and the bad parts of them all (including Dyson) but we also are going to call out what we see as inconsistent, pandering, and overall upsetting because as fans who love, we want it to be awesome again. In other words, we reserve the right to call Lost Girl on its shit...and we do. It's a hard love, but a fervent one.

Personally, I dont like Doctor Lauren and I think she's erroneously seen as the savior too many times to let go without objection (what I suspect you see as "bashing".) I'll allow that I get a little, let's say over passionate, about it which can veer into overkill. But again, that's usually because I want the show to be true to itself, its history, its plot, and its characterization rather than jump around without direction and consistency like a Fae Junebug,

Other people here feel negatively about Dyson; not everyone is keen on Trick (we all love Kenzi) but part of what makes so many people contribute to the convo here is that we talk about everyone and everything on the show, good and bad, which is after all the point of a discussion group in the first place.
Grow up and move on to something that truly matters in the realm of things like your family, friends, children, husbands, wives, animals.
I'm going to ask you not to attack the commenters directly because you don't like what they're saying. This is a safe environment where people can express their opinions without being personally attacked for them. Object to opinion; don't insult the people expressing them.
End this pettiness and enjoy the show, or don't watch it, then blog bad stuff about it. Critque the writers not the character or the actors that portray them because its just a show, really!
I do enjoy the show quite a bit. I wouldn't invest so much time and energy into it if there wasn't something there that I liked. I've said a number of times in this discussion thread that I think S4 a vast improvement on S3 and that, outside of the doccubus shenanigans, I thought this episode had a lot of great stuff with Vex and Tamsin and Kenzi and Bruce and Trick and the Una Mens. I'm sorry you missed those comments. I do critique the writers and the showrunner and the characters and I've blogged a lot of good and bad stuff about it as either apply. That is, after all, the purpose of a critique. But I don't attack the actors because 1. they are not their characters and 2. I think they're all pretty frickin' awesome and regularly say so. Others have successfully argued that pointing out when one of the actors doesnt quite display the character as well as could be (i.e. critiquing the performance) is a valid part of our discourse and that is their prerogative.

As any regular here will tell you, my overall mantra for discussing Lost Girl is "its a show, not a bloodsport." Again, passion overwhelms us all from time to time and things get heated, but here at H&H we do our best to maintain a safe discussion environment and a community of respect. You are welcome to continue to contribute to this community in that same manner. That said, not every discussion community is right for every fan, and I would understand if you decided ours was not the right fit.
205. TheUberFan
Honestly it's one of the reasons I like coming here, @Kiersten. I like the diversity of opinions. It's clear we all love the show and think all the actors are cool. We sail different ships, or no ships at all, but for the most part we can spar and debate and do it all in good fun.

BTW...regarding know I'm on Team Valkyrie, right? Well, after seeing how she's experienced pretty much no growth since Season 1 emotionally, I'd like her to get her stuff in order before she gets involved with ANYONE, if Let the Dark Times Roll is an accurate portrayal of how she rolls right now.

Figure out what you want and why, Bo, and stop making excuses for others behavior. And stop treating Dyson like your own personal jump starter.

Did you see, btw, that Emily Andras referred to the boxing ring sex as "angry sex"? Yeah, that's romantic. :( I feel bad for the wolf right now. He's getting the total short end here no matter what happens.

So let Bo get her head on straight and then let's see what happens. But right now I don't think she knows what real love is anymore.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
206. Kiersten
@Uberfaenatic & @NYPiTA - Dyson didn't meet Trick until after he left the clan. I think soemeone once said that he was a lone wolf for a long while. Both KHR and RH have said that we do get to see their back story together this season - perhaps that'll be part of the Dyson mind walk.

@whiskeywhite - I agree with @nypita (which I find to usually be a good thing to do). I would love to talk less about DL and doccubus shenanigans but the hamfisted way the show continues to write DL's character and now despite a really good if ultimately failed relationship arc in S3 we're still not only treading old ground with them but making Bo look dumb and bitchy for treading it.

That said, yes, let's do talk about the Una Mens and Trick and Evony and Vex and Tamsin because they all rocked it hard this episode. I love the ambiguity they're fleshing out in Trick's character. We knew him capable of turning over his own daughter to the Dark Fae to make peace and that he regrets it bitterly but that hasn't stopped him from manipulating things even now. What else might he have done or forced others to do to keep it?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
207. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic - thanks. I'm glad you've joined us.

About Hale, I think that was the whole point of his experience as The Ash, learning that the ideals his grandmother had instill in him about countering the Fae's entrenched traditions and snobbery are not so easy to instigate once power is achieved. He learned a hard less of how ideals get subjugated before power deals and that to achieve what you most want, you often have to give up what you most value.

Oh crap, I just inadvertently quoted The Norn (Freaking Norn!), didn't I? Shit.
208. TheUberFan
Thank you for welcoming me to your clan! ;)

I still want the Norn to get what's coming to her. Every time I rewatch Season 1, I rethink Kenzi going Long John chainsaw on her tree at the end of Season 2 and wish she had done more damage. Think Can't see the Fae-rest. ;)

As for Hale, I agree that he probably did face that...but it would have bee nice to see as opposed to having to gleen it later on. I would have liked to see him challenge something, be shot down, and see the look off frustration/disillusionment on his face.

Because the Hale I know from Season 2 would have done something outrageous in order to make a point and I didn't see that with him once he went full on Ash.

BTW... I don't forget what Trick said about Kenzi either. It still bothers me. A lot of things about Trick are bothering me so I guess I'm a full on Trick conspiracy theorist now. There's way more there than meets the eye.
210. TheUberFan
I know the Una Mens don't have feelings but they sure looked unhappy in that last scene. lol

And a note in her blade?? Dude. I have to know what it says!

Have you seen the really amazing still of Kenzi from this episode? Let me see if I can find it and post it because Ksenia looks positively stunning in it.
211. nypinta
@UberFaenatic, Re: Trick. Word! I posted a link to a tumblr post someone created a few months back about Trick being Bo's biggest enemy, even if it's unintentional. It was a good post. I so wanted Hale to call out Trick in that scene when Trick was giving Hale crap for the incident with Kenzi. But they needed to further the 'fae vs human' theme at the expense of Hale. It's also why I'm disappointed that it wasn't Hale that put 2+2 together and sent Lauren in to Taft's to figure out what he's up to. Alas, nope. I get that KC Collins had a tight schedule because of the other show he was on, but they could have utilized his few scenes much better.

The promo does look good. And it looks like the Una Mens do more than just torture. They actually do show up and interfere and hooooo boy is Bo not going to like that. Huh. What if Dyson succeeds in killing one of the Una Mens and that is who he is on trial for killing?
212. TheUberFan
Here it is. I cropped and resized but this just a great profile pic:

Kiersten Hallie Krum
213. Kiersten
@nypita - I like that idea! Not of him being on trial, obviously, but that would actually be an organic progression of events. I wonder if the laws Bo's accused of violating is the fact that she's Dark and Dyson's Light and they're clearly getting it on (in what looks like may finally *not* be a top off)? Not that there aren't likely plenty of other reasons but I'm taking the setting into account on that one - odd for them to show up in her bedroom at that moment.

@whiskeywhite mentioned missing the Fae of the Week and I'll have to say, I really don't. I *much* prefer the all out UF exploration of the Fae world we've been getting (looong overdue) and that the B plots are related to that (like Tamsin & Kenzi & Bruce at the party) rather than an additional mystery that's only thematically linked to Bo's ongoing issues. Again, doccubus shenanigans aside, this season is leaps and bounds improvement over the last in virtually every way
214. TheUberFan
I agree @nypinta. There's a lot more to Trick and I too wish Hale had been a bit more assertive and not dissed Kenzi.

Regarding the promo...Bo is now front and center for the Una Mens.

1. She attacked them.
2. They know what Rainer means.
3. They know she's a rebel who bucks the rules.
4. They know she loves humans.
5. They know she cavorts with the Light, even though she's now dark.

So which one of these things bring them to her?

And you bring up a good question. Can the Una Mens be killed? If so, does Dyson kill one of them to protect Bo? Hmm.
Melonna Clarke
215. MelonnaBanana
ooooooohhh @SmurfFae I love where your head is at!

@UberFaenatic I love that you ship Bo and Tam. If i didn't think they were related i'd so be on board with Bo getting it together and realizing Tamsin is the girl for her. I feel like theyd both be ok with the fact that Bo has trouble with monogamy.

Everyone else...please continue because i love where this thread is going right now.

P.S. @Kiersten is pretty much who i want to be when I grow up as of that sassy response to ridiculous behavior
216. TheUberFan
Hehe, @MelonnaBanana. If they actually did take the story in that direction, I'd probably have to jump off a cliff. ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
217. Kiersten
@MelonnaBanana aw, that's sweet. thanks! I want to be Emma Thompson when I grow up, so we'll all be awesome one way or another ;)
218. nypinta
I want to be Tina Fey when I grow up. *sigh* If only...
219. TheUberFan
I still want to be me when I grow up, just not as...well...stupid. ;)
Susan White
220. whiskeywhite
@Jd24JDL let me also say welcome. But I will quote Kiersten because I agree so fervently with what she says:
I'm going to ask you not to attack the commenters directly because you don't like what they're saying. ... Object to opinion; don't insult the people expressing them.
@nypinta and Kiersten have already covered all of the responses I would make to your criticisms of what we do here. I applaud your effort to outline the good and bad in each character but it's odd that there seems to be no bad you can see about Lauren's character. We love the show and we love having thoughtful, and very often funny, clever, and imaginative discussions of it. I urge you to read @Jd24JDL -- there's LOTS to read here. One of the things that keeps me here is the writing and the word play. Kiersten sets the example but there are other word masters here as well. And plot analysts. I think I missed that class in school. And imaginative plot predicters!

@nypinta and Kiersten, I agree about not returning to the monster of the week format. I was aware of that weakness in what I was saying when I was writing (very late) last night. It's the international mythology that I want to see back. I agree that we don't need to have characters like the gut-sucking Japanese fae (what was he called?) just popping in and then dropped. Although I can't really see a long character arc for him :-). I liked the African egg laying fae (name? I'm being lazy and not researching) if only because she was gorgeous and sweet (again a misrepresentation of the real South African myth where those spirits are evil and feared). I wouldn't mind seeing her return, but again her purpose in the plot was so narrow. She did trade her egg for a future favour from Trick. Maybe she could call in the favour.

Despite my criticism of how the Garuda was portrayed at least he played a major role and stuck around for a while. (As I'm writing this it just occurred to me that as a tip of the hat to the Asian origin of the Garuda -- Garuda is for example the national symbol of Thailand -- they might have had an Asian actor playing him. But I know, I know, then I would be whining about Asian actors being used as bad guy characters. And I liked Raoul Trujillo a lot. He did evil well and, as I said before, as a dancer managed to pull off all that flaming arm waving without looking ridiculous.)

Thanks to all for the various links ( I luv links, but how do I keep up?). Sigh. Must work.
221. TheUberFan
So mystery woman... knows Bo from the train?

How did Bo know she wouldn't remember her?

How did the woman know there was something in Bo's knife? Did she take that knife off of the train?

It looks like Bo and Dyson are at the club house (and Bo is in a kimono and Dyson is shirtless ;) and the Una Mens are in her home.

"The codex of laws has been infringed upon." Are they there for a separate reason but see a dark fae (Bo) getting her sexy on with light fae (Dyson)? Is that what they mean? Hmmm.
222. nypinta
Ah, I see what you're saying.

The Garuda vs Naga story was a good one. Could have used more minions in the "battle" scenes... but budget. ;)

I still think it might have been cool if the wing waving Garuda was a distraction and the real Garuda was in Nadia and she got to be more of a villain, but that's just me. She goes with the team under Dyson's command to defeat the uber fae of winged flame but during the battle she reveals herself because as Dyson is fighting the bad guy, she tries to take out Bo but Ciara intervenes. Dyson defeats the winged fella, due to the fact that part of his power is to weaken his opponent using their love against them, but Dyson doesn't have his so he's able to defeat the great evil, but they still lose Ciara and now Nadia is the big bad that Bo has to defeat and she does so with her blood just like the way it originally ended.

Sorry. There I go again woulda coulda.
223. nypinta
I meant I see what @whiskeywhite was saying.

@UberFaenatic I know that Bo had her knife when she was taken so I'm going to guess that she wrote the note to herself and must have given it to the singer to give to her when they met off the train....? I think maybe Bo freed the singer from the train. I hope they explain how Bo knew she wouldn't remember.

I wonder if the Una Mens show up in order to collect Kenzi and get the bonus of finding Bo and Dyson together. I was thinking, a fae can't use their powers on the Una Mens because it bounces back, but what about regular old fists and kicking? I wonder if the key to defeat them is to not rely on your power? (Something I was hoping would have been key in last season...)
224. TheUberFan
Which means Bo wasn't asleep the whole time! Which opens the doors to a whole lot of other questions that no one here can answer since I'm just randomly musing aloud....
Kiersten Hallie Krum
225. Kiersten
I dont think Bo was asleep the whole time. I think she wandered (heh) about with Rainer in the other realm and/or this realm doing or observing wicked things, kind of an involuntary apprenticeship. I think she's been made to forget for one reason or another - maybe because Kenzi & Dyson breaking the memory spell unexpectedly and thus prematurely catapulting Bo awake perhaps pre-maturely meant her memories of what happened with The Wanderer/Rainer was replaced with the memories of her real life as they reformed. It could also be a side effect of leaving his realm without permission. Maybe she was only asleep in the first place b/c she was injured or as a result of a super power use that sucked her into a coma.

I'm beginning to think that Bo may have chosen to align to the Dark for a specific reason that was manipulated by Rainer (like to save someone's life) which she's now forgotten that will/may be revealed as she unravels all she did with The Wanderer.

Either way, the promo makes it look like we're barelling forward to find things out, which is fae-frickin-tastic.
Susan White
226. whiskeywhite
I said I would be working. But addiction intervenes. I have to use the dreaded OMG! What an imaginative plot line re: the Garuda and Nadia, @nypinta.

OK, now I'm working. Really.
227. TheUberFan
If she did it voluntarily, it would have had to be to save the life of another or group of others because not aligning is so central to her being.

I'm intrigued as to why or how she knew she'd not remember meeting that woman or whatever happened between them on the train, if she maybe came across her in her Wandering with Rainer.
Dine Stueg
230. Nocturne
Thank you all for the warm welcome :) Appreciate it!

Let's assume the Wanderer is the big schemer with getting Bo into the train and making her dark Fae by tricking her. It would make sense that his whole plan was to make Bo dark and he erased her memory, so she wouldn't know about it and it would be too late for her to reverse the process. Besides the full moon thing, it looks like the Wanderer is the only one who can make her unalligned again at this point, so he has her in complete control.

So is his whole plan to control her for his own purposes? Or does he want her to be dark? Is he dark as well and does he want to show her the good sides of his side? I still don't have any clue about why the Wanderer is being so mysterious. Why does he make others do his dirty work and doesn't he reveal himself to Bo? Maybe he is ill or he's being threatened by others?
Katherine Bloom
231. lsbloom
Am I the only one who has a problem with Rainer and Reynard (or however you say the name of the dark fae crazy from Original Skin) sounding pretty much exactly the same? So confusing.

Use a new name people. I spent like five minutes going, "wasn't he executed?"
233. drusilla_doll
The promo looks awesome. More answers or hints about Rainer/Wanderer being revealed. The Una Mens are doing a good job in presenting a real menace, this time. Beats the Garuda so far.

So what do you think constitutes a break in the code? Is it Bo and Dyson having sex? Or a combination of things. It did seem to be a singular offense, whatever it is.

I'm happy we're going to get a glimpse of Bo's missing time on the train.

Not as excited about Bo and Dyson possibly hooking up as I would have been had last ep's Doccufest not put a perpetually sour taste in my mouth. I guess I'll wait and see the context/motivations and decide how I feel. And are they in two different places? Where is she in the end, wearing the pretty pale kimono?

It does amuse me, however, that now Team Badass have become the 'forbidden' taboo pairing. Much more so than Bo/DL has ever been portrayed on the show.

So, does Kenzi get to do stuff too this ep? I sure hope so (rumour has it Tamsin might not appear, though). It looks like she and Bo are holding hands when the opera singer arrives. Who will be this someone from Hale's past who is going to threaten Kenzi? Because BOOO no-one threatens Kenzi and lives.
234. stacymd2
Hi all! I wanted to chime in on the Sleepy Hollow love. I am loving Agents of Shield, Sleepy Hollow, Haven & Supernatural right now. I’m trying to get back into Arrow, but there is always something else I’d rather watch. Sleepy Hollow would be a great show to binge watch, for those who have not seen it yet.


In Canada our bonehead gov't refers to people of colour as 'visible minorities'. Don't get me started!”

Wow, really? I learn something new every day. I hope Lost Girl continues to have more people of color on. I loved Stargate Atlantis & SG-1, but I couldn’t stand that, for the majority of their runs, there were very few minority actors—even as extras.

I'd like to take this moment to say how hot Jason Momoa/Ronon is. Jason Momoa is smoking HOTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

@Jd24JDL: Welcome! We are passionate about Lost Girl. I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m sure “we” wouldn’t watch and take time out of our days to comment here if we didn’t like the show. This is a recap for 405. There are many other LG recaps on H&H where commenters discussed every character and other issues (good & bad) with the show. Many of the comments above are positive.
Please try to check out other blogs/forums/websites for Lost Girl., L-Chat,, mehlsbells, afterellen, dorothysurrenders.blogspot,…Those sites need your balanced wisdom and posting guidelines.

@UberFaenatic: It is hard not to discuss the triangle from Hades and Wonder Lauren when the show rubs it our faces.

Oh wait! Emanuelle Vaughier wants a pony. Wouldn't it be awesome to see her on a pegasus pony? ;)

That would be awesome. EV said she has the outfit for it too. My fantasy creatures are a unicorns & mermaids. I loved the movie Legend. The creatures in The Neverending Story & Hellboy are also wonderful.
235. stacymd2
One thing in 405 I don’t think has been discussed is Bruce’s genuine slavery.

For three seasons we have heard about humans being slaves or pets to the Fae. Is this the first time Lost Girl has shown a Fae being a slave (a real slave) to another Fae? Is Vex technically Bo’s slave? Pet? Is Bruce Tamsin’s slave?

Lost Girl implies that it is wrong for the Fae to have humans as pets/slaves….the Fae should not think of humans as less than…etc. The Dark Fae at the Morrigan’s party didn’t care about Bruce or his former master’s death. They just enjoyed the show. Bruce has to be over 200 years old; does he not have Dark Fae friends/family that cares enough to fight for him? The Fae don’t seem to have high regard for each other. (Much like humans.) The only Fae that seemed to care about Fae society in general is Trick, Hale, 1st Ash, Lachlan & Dyson.

This is why @cmm I don’t think Bo is equipped to do as you stated:
I think by destabilizing the laws she could open up the fae for a dialogue. Where they still have to come to some sort of consensus on how to live and govern themselves but the lines aren't so rigid.”

You have to know the rules in order to break them. Bo doesn’t know Fae society or rules and hasn’t tried to learn them or live by them. She doesn’t like or respect rules. Trick created the laws for a valid reason and it did stop a major war. If his blood laws hadn’t worked the Fae wouldn’t celebrate La Shoshain and there would be open warfare between Light & Dark.

Its funny how in the same episode, Kenzi tells off the Morrigan for calling her Bo’s pet, but then makes Bruce Tamsin’s slave. Lauren happily indenturing herself to the Dark tops it off.

@UberFaenatic: I think it is implied that Hale did try to get the Fae out of the Dark ages, but wasn’t able to accomplish it. The system is to entrenched. Ksenia Solo is so beautiful in that still shot it’s scary.

It would be fascinating if Bo created her own clan of Unaligned Fae, but I can’t picture Bo leading and maintaining power over a large group for long. I stand by my feeling that Bo would have to make the Fae her slaves or thralls in order to unite them or change Fae society.

@Nocturne: May be The Wanderer wants to use Bo’s powers to enslave the Fae under his rule. He would use her to take over the Dark first, since that is his clan, then move against the Light. Both times after Bo’s super suc, she said that she would “rule them all”.

@Kiersten: Thanks for posting the preview video.
Carmen Pinzon
236. bungluna
Oh so many things I want to say, but my memory just doesn't work that well.

I keep wishing our merry band of commenters were the writers for this show. So many good plots and twists, and that's just during regular discussions.

I do miss the mystery of the week episodes. I read almost exclusively UF and Sci-Fi. My favorite authors use a mystery format to explore a specific topic, segment or people withing their world. Where the trouble starts is when the "mystery of the book/week" doesnt' get included properly into the bigger picture.

Let's say the Cappa was killed, but his big cousin shows up to seek revenge later, or we learn that they are the pets of the Oriental Fae and their highness are pissed at his treatment, or something else that furthers the overall story, it's good. Maybe our heroes get a reward for "freeing" him, or an enemy which will become significant later on. So many wasted options.

As it stands, the writers here just let a lot of great opportunites slip through their hands while obsessing about the freaking triangle.

I have to agree that this season has been the best plotted one so far. The story seems to be moving along nicely, with very little fat and a limitted amount of cheese.
Nadine Robb
237. cmm
"You have to know the rules in order to break them. Bo doesn’t know Fae
society or rules and hasn’t tried to learn them or live by them. She
doesn’t like or respect rules. Trick created the laws for a valid
reason and it did stop a major war. If his blood laws hadn’t worked the
Fae wouldn’t celebrate La Shoshain and there would be open warfare
between Light & Dark."

I disagree. The fae only have a few major laws and Bo knows enough about those to break them. They may have a few little addons like the Bruce thing but those are relative to each side and are different for each but not for the "fae" as a whole. But the main ones like no dark or light interaction (having bf or gf) except on that fae day, and no humans are to know about the fae etc... are the ones that Bo needs to break. She does it in the preview hence why I believe the Una Mens give her their growly face. You are correct though that technically Trick did stop the war, but, he did it at great cost. I think even he knows his rules have caused problems as well. I understand why he did it but it was wrong nonetheless. You can force all people to conform against their will hence the Aoife situation. She is technically dark but she's always tried to undo what Trick did. I'm sure there have been many others as well who have died as a result. I do agree though that Bo does not know about every fae tradition, but she will in time. To Bo the way I see her seeing the fae is that their traditions may seem a bit backwards to her. She did grow up in the human world and thus has been given a unique perspective which makes her seem snobbish, selfish and a know it all.
Nadine Robb
238. cmm

"I have to agree that this season has been the best plotted one so far.
The story seems to be moving along nicely, with very little fat and a
limitted amount of cheese."

I agree wholeheartedly, but my fear is that they're going to pull a garuda in this season. Where everything is crammed into the last few episodes and if that happens I will be dissapointed.
Carmen Pinzon
239. bungluna
In most UF lore, humans are feared and admired by the 'creatures' because they are versatile and survive. With humans, tremendous change can occur within 5 or 6 generations, when most of the people with living memories of a given event have passed on. It's harder now with all the recorded stuff that keeps things fresh. I think slavery in the States would be treated very differently if there were documentaries of it as there are of the Holocaust.

My point is that Fae society, as presented in LG, is very static because its denizens are all alive. Trick wrote the laws and is still with us. Aeife rebelled against her father's laws and is still there. The babies of the group are Hale and Bo; everybody else seems to have first-hand knowldege of what came before.

Bo can bring a revolutionary pov to the Fae world. She doesn't have first-hand knowledge of the 'before' and she was raised human. However, she lacks the vision necessary for a good leader. She's more of a hero, imo.

A leader will do what's necessary for his/her people, all of them. A great leader makes the hard calls and sacrifices pawns for the good of all.

A hero will make the sacrifices for the one. He/she will persevere and press on to save the one, at the expense of the many, if need be.
240. drusilla_doll
I seemed to recall that Trick greatly regretted how much he had used his powers in the past. Wasn't he reluctant to use his blood power again at the end of S1, but was convinced to set aside his fears/risk the consequences to help save Bo from Aife? I've always had the impression that he did what was right for all Fae, but because of that, had to betray his own daughter. It had to have been a heart-breaking decision to make. But Aife had formed a rebel army against the other side, correct? But then when things went south, sought sanctuary with the Light. So in essence she was technically a war criminal. I admit that my memory can be faulty, though. And didn't he think she would be executed, only to learn later she was imprisoned and abused for hundreds of years? So he has a lot to feel guilty for, but I am not sure if it was the wrong decision at the time.

Still hazy about how or why the Una Mens were created.

I wonder how much of all the dark prophetic hints about Bo and her destiny in that first season are still yet to be played out? I need to find a transcript of what the Oracle told her.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
241. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll Bo and Dyson appear to be in her bedroom at Hilton Hovel in those last promo images where she's wearing the kimono and the Una Mens invade
242. TheUberFan
Bo knew enough about fae society in the series premiere that refusing to align was unprecedented and against their laws but did so anyway. She is a natural rebel who refuses to abide by rules that keep her from living her life on her own terms.

It's why she went so nuts over LuAnne, who chose love and family over her clan and was forced to watch them all die as a result of her disobedience; and that rubbed Bo the wrong way because what did that say of her own chances to find the life she wants if she sat back and did nothing when an injustice was taking place in order to "keep the peace"?
243. TheUberFan
BTW...there were a couple of tidbits from the interview I found interesting. First, we might finally get to the Morrigan's hold over Kenzi. Second, we might get a chance to see the oracle from season 1 again.
244. nypinta
I don't know if Aife had formed a rebel army, but she did attack the Dark. Trick described it was her ignoring the newly formed laws and attacking because she couldn't "forgive". I guess it wouldn't be much of a retcon (compared to others on the show...) that Aife was actually rebelling against the laws themselves as well as seeking revenge for the death of her mother. It would be nice to see if there was a backlash against the laws when they were first made and how exactly it is that Trick became "corrupt" or if that's an Una Mens value placed on what he was doing and he wasn't actually corrupt but was just being... reasonable. Their adherence to the rules is absolute and doesn't allow for extenuating circumstances. A balance needs to be struck but it can't with two unyielding sides that are entrenched in playing a long game of chess with each other. Fae like Bo and Hale are trying to fight against the long standing structure of fae society, Hale from the inside, Bo from the out. I'd like if they'd team up actually because I think Bo would really appreciate his point of view. She could have been an asset to him when he was Ash, but again they were restricted since KC was on another show. *sigh* Sadly, I feel that Evony's love of just stirring up trouble is what really brought the Una Mens in their midst, but she doesn't care. It's the games and that the fae are so long lived that they almost have to create chaos just to not get bored. So it's their callousness and disregard for anything that isn't directly involved in whatever game they are playing that really makes the fae suck. (And perhaps make them allegory for politics these days...) As for Kenzi bing OK with making Bruce her (Tamsin's actually) slave, I don't think Kenzi accepted it. She just used the rules of the Dark against them to free her friend from a horrible situation. I think the "mastering" is an old law that the Dark pervert to their own twisted desire. It was probably originally a probation like period for fae that broke some law but it wasn't a bad enough offense to have them imprisoned or executed. I bet originally their punishments were supposed to teach them something, but whenyou're Dark, you can pretty much do what you want and no one is going to say anything. She knew that if she got Tamsin to "master" him that he'd basically be free. And I think Vex is considered Bo's now, in a "mastering" sort of way. I think it also means that Bo is responsible for what Vex does, so if he does something wrong both of them have to pay for it. By the way, I kind of ship Vex and Kenzi now. Especially after seeing him tell his story and the obvious pain becoming what he is causes him. He spent years allowing himself to become this horrible creature, the go to killer for the Dark yet he loses his power and they drop kick him like a kitten to the curb yet Kenzi treats him like a person, probably for the first time in centuries. D'awwwwww! Right?
245. TheUberFan
I still don't have a solid read on what happened to force Trick to use his blood, what Aife was rebelling with, who she was sent to and how long she was there.

The Garuda painted a picture of a king desperate to save himself because the dark and light were united in wanting to bring him down so he forced the peace by the power of his will and his blood. The others said that was just the Garuda lying, but what if that was the start of things?
C. H.
246. SmurfFae
Trick genuinely wanted peace, because he was sick of the war (probably because the death of his wife), therefore he created the Blood Laws.
Aife couldn't accept peace (because the death of her mother?) and actually lead a rebellion. I think she killed a Dark leader.
As punishment she was given to a Dark king. (There are probably a lot of Light and Dark kings. Or there used to.) She was sentenced to death but 'the king had a sadistic streak and they had themselves a lot of fun...' (Aife, season 1 finale)

I'm not sure about the reasoning of the Garuda - his line of argument was sketchy and it was left ambigous ... like so much. And the Garude did lie about a lot of stuff. Don't buy into the anti-Trick propaganda! He's a great man!
Nadine Robb
247. cmm
They haven't really delved into the details of what forced Trick to write the laws. All we know so far is that there were wars and to end them he wrote the laws. I was hoping they would of showed the backstory of Trick that we were promised. But so far other than him not taking that seed thing we haven't seen much.

@nypinta I totally agree. Wow I just realized I spell your username wrong consistently and for that I apologize lol! But what you've said is how I see it too. I do think that by seasons end the Una Mens are going to be either destroyed or altered in some way. I can't see them lasting as they are now.
248. nypinta
From what I recall, there was a war going on and Trick was a major player. His wife wanted him to meet with someone from the opposition for peace talks or some such, but he refused. She decided to go anyhow. He called his trusted right hand man to send orders to someone but that guy double crossed him and set it up so that Trick's wife was killed as well as the person she was going to meet and planted a letter that made it look like Trick was the one responsible. This event caused both sides to want Trick's head and so he wrote the laws that ended the war. The Garuda implied that even though the fae regard the laws with reverence because it brought peace that his real reason was to avoid being captured by either side. How much of that is true I don't know. Because Trick never knew that his right hand man betrayed him and was the one actually responsible for his wife's death. But it was after her death and he wrote the laws that Aife attacked the Dark Fae she thought was responsible for her mother's murder and as a consequence Trick had to send her to the Dark to be executed. Instead, some Dark fae king decided to keep her around for hundreds of years, I think. It gets fuzzy because she gave birth while a captive, but if the Dark Fae king that Trick sent her too isn't Bo's father then she must have been taken by another Dark fae at some point because you would think Trick would know who he sent her off to. She apparently escaped just 30 years ago when Bo was just a baby, if Bo's vision in The Dawning is accurate. Of course, Aife could have been handed over to another Dark after she was brought to the Dark fae for execution.
249. drusilla_doll
Thanks for finding this, Smurfae, it's how I remember it too. Aife wouldn't accept the tentative peace and led a rebellion and assassinated a Dark Leader. Then she tried to get sanctuary from the Light when her army started losing. She forced Trick into a huge bind and if he'd sheltered her, he would have basically declared war on the Dark again. So he did the politically right thing, thinking she would be executed quickly. But alas the Dark King kept her alive and tortured and abused her for centuries. Which is why she went mad and became so twisted in her need for revenge.

It was the wrong move as a father, but the right one for Faedom as a whole.

Still, it would seem that this truce between the two factions is pretty fragile and Bo's rise in power and dislike of aligning herself is throwing out ripples across Fae society. For good or for ill is still yet to be determined. Especially if Rainer is deciding to re-emerge on the scene. Whoever he is...
Susan White
250. whiskeywhite
Wow, @Russian Wolf! Great story and explanation about DADT and your role in subverting that horrible ridiculousness. Thanks for sharing.

I've been pondering Trick's background. He's the "Blood King" but does that necessarily make him the King of the Light? When he's first introduced to Bo in Ep. 1.02, Dyson refers to him as "one of our elders" (not "one of our Light elders" as someone said). Trick explains to Bo that the bar is a place of sanctuary for "all fae" and "neutral ground for Light and Dark fae", so running the bar where Dyson and Hale and other Light folks hang out doesn't necessarily make him Light. Dyson definitely owes him fealty (as someone argued, he usually follows Trick's "orders" and Dyson comments in "Food for Thought" that he doesn't always follow the Ash's orders, to which Trick answers, "But he's not supposed to know that" implying that at times Dyson follows Trick's instead). Dyson is Light, but does that make Trick the Light King? When Lachlan discovers that Trick is the Blood King he goes down on one knee and bows before him, pledging his allegiance. But does that make Trick the King of the Light, or someone even higher?

I have always assumed that because Trick had the authority to settle a war between the Light and the Dark, and both groups had to abide by the decision and the laws that he wrote, that put his status above both Light and Dark. It could also be argued, however, that Trick didn't necessarily have the authority to settle the war, he just had the capability -- he could "force" an end to the war, as he says. Dyson explains to Bo in Ep. 1.13 that since Trick is a blood sage, "what he writes in his own blood comes to pass". So he doesn't necessarily have authroity due to his status, just power due to his blood.

Later, it's true that Trick mentors Hale as the Ash, but that could fit with him being a higher power than either Light or Dark as he's seeking more unity and less conflict between the two sides. To bring it up to the current season, the Una Mens make him the acting Ash, which would seem to seal the deal that he's Light, but they don't know that he's the Blood King.

Can anyone provide a quote in which it is directly said that Trick is Light?
Nusi Dekker
252. NusiD
@nypinta I guess that Trick's right-hand man must have double-crossed him at a later time, since Trick punished him by turning him into an Underfae (!) and banishing him to live his life as a mole. But when the mole pulled the Garuda down into his hole to save Trick, Trick then released him from his punishment. Did that mean that he turned the mole back into a man, or just released him to live the rest of his life as a mole but no longer obligated to serve Trick?

So, is Rainer then the Dark Fae king? Maybe he was exiled to the alternate realm to live his life as The Wanderer, while Trick escaped before he could be exiled, and took up the new identity as a waystation keeper. The Una Mens may be responsible for both of these actions. And it was all put in motion by the laws written by the Blood King.

And how did the Una Mens end up with Bo's piece of scalp with the Dark Fae declaration on it? Did I miss something? Bo went directly to the Dal with Vex's hand, and she seemed to still have the parchment with her...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
253. Kiersten
@NusiD I dont think the mole was the right-hand man transformed, but another Fae entirely that had betrayed and now owed Trick, or at least if it was, I never got that.
Suzanne Metaxas
254. SuzyM
My understanding is the mole was his counselor who betrayed him.
Stephanie Ong
255. RussianWolf
Playing catch up.

Hey, @Russian Wolf. Glad to hear that you're that smart person @ChibiHoshi. Could you please translate ""having been a Beard for a fellow Marine 15 years ago during DADT" "for us civilians?

Back in 1998 the United States military policy on homosexuals was "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". If discovered to be gay a military person was discharged from serving.
I was a 21 year old virgin in the USMC and one of my friends that was in my unit, Ray, was seen by a "hater"/homophobe holding hands with his civilian boyfriend Mike off base. Said "hater" was going to go to our CO (very Catholic boss) so I blurted out that I was dating Ray. Because everyone had previously assumed I was a virgin for religious reasons I banked that they would assume I did not agree with homosexuality (as oppose to being a virgin because I was a logical pagan with Asperger's and a family history of high fertility) and so I pretended to be his girlfriend, his "beard", for the next 6 months until he was stationed elsewhere. During that time I became friends with Mike and it was through him that I was first exposed to the whole bias against Bisexuality. Because of them I got to know others in the GLBT community and hear a lot of viewpoints.

I mentioned it because I, being het myself, I have never experienced said bias and my Uncle was my only exposure to a gay man prior to being a "beard". (and he wasn't obvious nor involved in any community so though I knew "gay" existed and some people were homophobic, I didn't give it much thought on how Bi-sexuals were viewed.)

The experience helped open up my world to the opinions and thought process of the differences in our world. But it is all second and third hand info and I was trying to make sure my comments weren't taken as first hand experience nor reflect the current atmosphere of the communities today.

Welcome Nocturne. Don't mind me, I may be your shipper enemy but I'm fun. *grins*

@nypinta post 149
l. I wondered at the time if the person under the bags was the real Pietra and this fae was an imposter but nothing every came of it. Maybe it will down the line?
I also thought that. It's FauxKenzi x1000. Or more accurately I thought that because I think that Bo was never really on the train, her Flesh duplicate was, and is what we are watching. And that Amy will give Birth to River at Demons Run.... Oh wait. That is me watching too much Doctor Who.

*Flails at the mention of Almost Human, Sleepy Hollow, Grimm - I don't feel like smacking Juliette anymore and adore Monroe/Rosalee, OB, Firefly - yes I caught the reference, AoS, Haven, SPN, Arrow, SG1, SGA,

@Jd24JDL - Sorry to burst your bubble but I see TWO fallacies in your post. I'm a Kenzi and Russian Wolf fan myself. I just hate anything that is similar to Smallville's Lana Lang and Moppy Clark. To me DL is being written like Lana and Dyson is being written as EMOClark around Bo.
I will however state that though I don't like DyBo he doesn't just wants Bo only because he can't have her, and shes good in the sack. . Canon unfortunately is that he loves her and can't love anyone else. He can't fall out of love with her. He can't move on to another relationship like a regular person. He is Fae, a wolf shifter, who can only love one and unless something changes, he will love her until he dies - NOT because he just wants what he can't have but it is his Fae nature.
No matter how you fell, whether you believe his feelings mean they will or should be returned now or 100 years down they road, whether you like or don't like that he is too PuppyDyson when with Bo all you can do is hope the writers create a plot device to undo the problem, you can't ignore canon and state Dyson is just wanting what he can't have.

@nypinta - I'd SO ship Kenzi/Vex (what is that Venzi or Kex?) if I thought Vex swung her way. She looked quite hurt when he betrayed her and she had to hit him. - p.s. to me pinta, other than a conjugation of the verb to paint, is a mole so your handle is New York Mole in Portuguese. (at least it isn't pinto). Can we embed you on the set? Be our spoiler source.
256. TheUberFan
Oh yes. For certain, the advisor who betrayed him was devolved into the mole. Remember when Trick was torturing him for info, he said something to the effect that he had betrayed him one too many times and that was before he learned that he was responsible for his wife's death.

And Trick did finally release him from his debt for pulling the Garuda under the earth and saving his life.
257. The Gardner
Saw the promo, sigh. So this week Bo is in love with Lauren and next week she is back to using Dyson, awesome, just awesome. Then the following episode she is working with Lauren to help Dyson. Soooooo over it.
258. TheUberFan
What I'm seeing @TheGardner is that Bo is not in an emotionally stable enough place to be with anyone right now. Not really.

At least not seriously. Sexy times is one thing. She is a succubus after all. But we're dealing with real feelings here...and she seems completely and blissfully unaware as to how she jerks people's emotions around. She uses Dyson for sex. She uses Lauren as an emotional crutch to make everything right. I know you're on team Lauren...but do you really want her with Lauren right now when she bounces back and forth with such ease?

I'm on Team Valkyrie but I really don't want Bo to pursue anything serious with anyone until she gets her head screwed on straight and figures out what she wants.
259. TheUberFan
I want to know about Vex's hand. The last scene, we see it sitting on the counter in the Dal in an ice bowl...and Trick is using the ice in his and Bo's drinks. (And Vex's middle finger is extended. lol)

Why do they have it? Why did Bo take it? Are they wanting to fix it and reattach or something?
260. nypinta
@RussianWolf @SuzyM Oh right! I forgot about the mole guy. But there was something that Trick hadn't know until the Garuda showed him. I can't recall just what though... @cmm Everyone gets my handle wrong. What's really fun is when I go to conventions and listen to all the ways people say it. hahaha. On other boards people usually just abbreviate it to just NYP. (Just for the record, it means NY Pain in the Ass. Bonnie Hammer, the once VP of SyFy that cancelled FarScape knows why.)
262. TheUberFan
Don't get me started on Farscape. Or what they did to Ka D'Argo.

I was thrilled Aeryn and John ended up together and were happy but I always felt it was at D'Argo's expense (ie, they needed a tragedy in the movie to offset John and Aeryn's happiness).
Stephanie Ong
263. RussianWolf
@UberFanatic - Just remember that Evony got a brand new eye and Massimo had a jar with the replacement so re-attaching a hand is NOT as far fetched as it seems. As long as they have it preserved (like the eyes in a jar) the same concept applies, they just need to fix it first.
Stephanie Ong
264. RussianWolf
Ah Farscape... I think no show will ever get the bodyswap concept as well as they did it. That bar will never be knocked down.

It is the only show I have ever watched where I have never written or read fanfic.

P.S. Now you've done it. I have the 1812 Overture stuck in my head! For some reason any mention of Farscape does that to me; all because of that DRD!
265. TheUberFan
They have Vex's hand there on the counter as a fae conversation piece? LOL
Kiersten Hallie Krum
266. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic - brings a whooole 'nother layer to "Talk to the Hand"...
267. drusilla_doll
I adore Farscape. THAT was a love story done well. I am about due for a rewatch too.
268. nypinta
Hehehe. The DRDs. Ahhhh. Yeah. FarScape is what got me online and my introduction into fandom. I adored how they took all the sci fi cliches and turned them on their heads. (Up until they pulled out the oldest trope with D'Argo in Peacekeeper Wars. I chalk that up to the mini series being all of season 5 shoved into two episodes.... *sigh* ) Vex's hand (laptop hates paragraphs... IDK.) I think he'll get a new one too. Or that one will be fixed and reattached. Or OMG he'll get a new hand and that one will become another Vex, but only human, so that Kenzi can have a Vex of her own!! Wait... that seems familar. Oh, I got all Doctor Who too there for a bit. (What would the Doctor think of the fae? Oh, he'd hate Evony.)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
270. Kiersten
I adored how they took all the sci fi cliches and turned them on their heads.

Thats what hook me into Farscape too. And John and Aeyrn of course, that the woman was the stoic alpha warrior and the guy the emo love struck one

Driving home today, totally out of nowhere I said, "well come on you skinny boys in suits!"
271. drusilla_doll
John and Aeryn really challenged those tropes we were used to. John was the crazy emotional-heart-on-a-sleeve guy and Aeryn was so damned stoic and stubborn and resisting her heart until she couldn't any longer. I loved that.
272. TheUberFan
@UberFaenatic - brings a whooole 'nother layer to "Talk to the Hand"...

Five minutes in the penalty box for you! ;)

Did you notice Vex's middle finger is extended?
Carmen Pinzon
273. bungluna
Did y'all notice also that Trick said,
"Never thought I'd see the day when my granddaughter showed up with a one-handed mesmer..."
or words to that effect. Does that mean that Vex is sheltered at the Dahl? Someone mentioned having Vex take over the bar. Do we have disco balls in our future?

Also, Evony called Tamsin the "blooming little warrior princes". Does the princess part have any additional meaning other than snark?

Finally, Rainer elicited the response of "never again" from the Una Mens. That must mean that he was a big player in some past catastrophe or war or something, right?
Susan White
274. whiskeywhite
Wow, @RussianWolf! Thanks for sharing that story about your role in subverting the horrible ridiculousness of DADT.
277. drusilla_doll
@RussianWolf: You are amazing, helping protect someone subjected to the DADT nightmare. Thank you for that. I have never had to act a beard for someone, but I have had close bisexual, lesbian and gay friends. The godfather of my son is a gay BFF whom I went to drama school with and who now lives in London. I am so saddened by the constant resistance to LGBTQ rights in the US and around the globe. For me it just doesn't make any moral sense, any more than segregation did. Let's hope that one day, people look back on the current prejudice as being ignorant and futile. I'd like to think that we humans are capable of enlightenment and tolerance.
278. TheGardner
@UberFaenatic - Um I'm 31 years old, I'm not "Team" anything unless it is Team Human(but not sexual ew). I like Lauren, why the hell would I want her with Bo right now? I have enjoyed her having her own story line outside of Bo this season. Now I do think she and Bo make the better couple,(better chemistry, more interesting story, better actors, etc.), but I was glad that she didn't just follow Bo at the end of the episode. Bo is a selfish, immature, asshole and the way she is callously using Dyson, especially knowing how hefeels about her, makes me ill. I hope that he grows a pair and stands up for himself this episode, but he probably won't because he is a slave to his love. I can't see either relationship as healthy and I think Bo should be on her own fucking randoms until she can act like an adult. Hence my complaint about the promo and the endless game of succubus ping pong that is killing this series for me.
279. drusilla_doll
@TheGardner: we have disagreed in the past but I can't disagree with you right now. Bo needs to grow up majorly before she pursues a more committed relationship with anyone. I too have enjoyed DL's story line outside of Bo this season. I've rooted for her to gain more agency, but at this price? Not so much. Lauren's reasoning is ridiculous. She gets spybanged, forcibly kidnapped, imprisoned and threatened with death or Crystal's death for compliance by the Dark and yet she's all okay with that and anti the Light for daring to hold her accountable and not jumping to rescue her after the whole Taft debacle? Sorry, but that makes her look even more wilfully stupid and selfish. Or egocentric as she said to Crystal. I want Lauren to stand up for herself and not take shit and actually fight for what she wants, but not when it comes at the expense of common sense and accountability. The Dark slaughter humans at a whim, as the last ep showed, they don't have any respect or consideration for humans and to think Lauren would commit to the Dark and be okay with their random slaughters as long as she's free to come and go is....repugnant to me. Yes, the Light didn't treat her as well as she wanted, but she's majorly fooling herself if she thinks Miss Melt-a-human-&-back-stab-everyone Evony is going to honour any agreements she makes with her.
280. no1zoiepalmerfan
@UberFaenatic I believe the oracle, Cassie, from ep105 "Dead Lucky" will be back. The actress that plays her, Vanessa Matsui, is in the credits on the Lost Girl IMDB page for ep407.
285. TheUberFan
Oh intertesting if true, @no1zoi3palmerfan. I know that IMDB is not super reliable for upcoming stuff but she's someone I'm hoping we'll see again.

And it makes sense in the context of what the ep looks to be about too.
286. drusilla_doll
@no1zoiepalmerfan: That's exciting news! I had wondered if the season 1 prophecies about Bo held any significance this season rather than just pertaining to the struggles with Aife, perhaps they still do.
287. TheUberFan
I agree with you @TheGardner and @drusilla_doll. I honestly don't support Bo being in any serious relationship with anyone until she gets herself together.

BTW... I don't know what age has to do with it. I'm 40 and I still find ships and teams to enjoy. lol
288. TheUberFan
@drusilla_doll... EA said in that interview that they have a list of outstanding issues so it's possible this is one thread from Season 1 they decided to follow through on.

I wish they were more consistent with the series bible though. For instance, EA said we learned in Season 3 that Bo cannot be monogamous...but what we learned is that she cannot be monogamous with a human. In Season 1, Bo was with Dyson exclusively and did just fine and had chosen to commit to him fully pre-Norn. They even discussed it together and Bo made it clear that insofar as her nature goes, she has the ability to choose monogamy and not be defined by her inner succubus that way.

Michelle Lovretta made monogamy one of Bo's key points...that it wa important to her that Bo have the ability to choose monogamy. So I reject that she cannot be monogamous in general...only with humans, whose chi cannot sustain her.
292. TheGardner
@Drusilla_doll - OK Lauren's options were go back to the Light Fae, get claimed/owned by her lover or join the Dark. We are not privy to the parameters of her arrangement with them, but considering how duplicitous the Light have been with her I can understand her actions. The notion that Light is good and Dark is bad has been debunked on numerous occasions throughout the course of the series, so far the only difference I can see between the two factions is the Dark are upfront about embracing who they are.

@UberFaenatic - I am invested in this show and it's characters, but for me, I consider shipping and getting overly invested in a romantic pairing the way so many fans(not meaning you specifically) do is juvenile and a little to Twilightesque. I was simply referencing my age in that I am an adult.
297. nypinta
FTR I don't see Lauren's choice to go Dark illogical. It's her stated reasons and the fact that there was no reason for her to try and spin it to Bo about her "being freer" and trying to blame her choice on the Light not coming for her and that added, "I'm not mad at you... Bo," because why exactly would she be mad at Bo? Why does she think she gets to be mad at Bo? As much as Bo can be a jerk I don't think Lauren really has cause to assure Bo that she isn't angry with her. Their issues were not all Bo. It's almost like again she isn't accepting any responsibility for her part in their break up. And there was no reason for the writers to include all of that. It makes me not like them, not Lauren. Especially because I think it muddies the waters that both Kenzi and Lauren were trying to tell Bo the same thing, that as much as she likes to think so she can't protect everyone. Evony said it straight out that she couldn't. Even Dyson tried to warn her about how powerful the Una Mens are. But she just isn't hearing anyone.

As for Bo using Dyson... well, it sucks, but I think of everyone he knows what it's like after going through something traumatic and I think he's decided he's just going to be there for her no matter how she needs him. It kind of tracks, plus shows actually some growth for him since one could trace it back to how (in my opinion) his friends really weren't that there for him when he needed it.
298. nypinta
When I heard the conversation between Trick and Bo at the end I took it to mean that she's got Vex back at the hovel with her, yeah. She knows Evony wants him and Bo isn't going to give him over, but I don't think she'd let him skip town either. Plus, I think she's right, he wanted to be found. Man, loathing Vex is so hard now! ;) He doesn't want to work for the Dark the way he does. But it doesn't mean his a fluffy bunny either. It'll be interesting if they actually allow Vex to have an arc of redemption.
C. H.
299. SmurfFae
@nypinta: Concerning Kenzie: It's nice to see Kenzie taking center-stage, as she was more passive, ineffective,a 'victim of circumstances', reduced to quips last season.

This season she manipulated the amphisbana with her dance skills, raised a valkyrie on her own, became an expert in barrier-magic, and has been a general paragon of virtue :
- Instead of letting Bo go jackbauer on Massimos ass in 4.04, she wants to settle her business dealings like adults (although he had been acting horrible).
- When she finds Bruce enslaved, she frees him (through Lil' T) and becomes his 'patron'.

Funny, that Bo apparently adopts Vex the same episode. Makes you think of that 'Kenzie's my heart'-speech from season 3. Kenzie&Bo really think along the same lines. So I'm hoping we'll see more Kenzie&Bo this season.
Everybody loves Kenzi! On the show and all on the boards.
Did your hearts also almost-break when Bo was so mean to her in 4.04 and left her with that callous 'You're close, right?'-line? The look in her poor ice-colored mascara-rimmed eyes!
I think this was the moment everyone thought Bo had changed into an even bigger jerk.
Stephanie Ong
300. RussianWolf
I don't see anything OOC with DL siding with the Dark myself. Her though process is parallel to her past. She has already gone down the bomb (Chaos/Dark) route instead of try to stop something legally (Order/Light). She's afraid to be punished - she ran in her past and ran now. The Light would probably punish her for her involvement with Taft - house arrest or something and the Dark give her "freedom". She has already demonstrated she thinks she has done nothing wrong and is entitled to said freedom so it is just a continuation of characterization. So I'll just fanwank her whole 'the Light didn't come find or help her" because in her head they didn't because they are out to get her. So what she said is true, from a certain point of view. And her acceptance at human death, well her opinion on human life is low too. If she can absolve herself from "the eleven deaths aren't her fault" she certainly can frame her mind around "the Dark would kill the humans whether she was with them or not".

BTW... I don't know what age has to do with it. I'm 40 and I still find ships and teams to enjoy. lol
I myself find statistics like age, sex, etc interesting. Some fandoms are quite easy to bracket while others are very confusing. Like Smallville was quite fixed with Clark/Lana fans being young high schooler Dawson Creek fans and Clark/Chloe being older or teens experiencing unrequited love at the time. Clark/Lois being traditionalists, more comic fans, etc. Harry Potter shippers are less defined with too many groupings to get my bearings.
@TheGardner - I find shipping theraputic myself even though I'm 36. Have Aspergers means I have never had a good grasp on emotions or expressing them and in fact have never been in love despite being a mom. I find trying to define why I like a certain pair helps me open up to try and internalize those feelings. I guess that is why I lean toward ships/pairs that start off as friends or at least grow to trust each other, risk and sacrifice things including their lives and freedoms, are honest and open, if there is a secret identity or similar trope that the person can be themselves around the other and overall have a certain level of maturity.
Susan White
301. whiskeywhite
Woke up as usual to more good discussion. (OK, I'll admit it, I just got up and it's noon where I am). A veritable epidemic of agreeing with @TheGardner seems to have broken out. Cool. Speaking of which, you do make a good argument @TG about Lauren joining the Dark. But I have to say my heart is with @drusilla_doll when she says:
to think Lauren would commit to the Dark and be okay with their random slaughters as long as she's free to come and go is....repugnant to me.
And @d_d, you mentioned in passing having gone to drama school. Does that mean you're a trained (even practicing) actress? Or some other trade in the drama world? Does that help explain your expertise in analyzing our favourite little drama here?

I heartily agree with you, @TheGardner, when you say:
I consider shipping and getting overly invested in a romantic pairing the way so many fans do is juvenile and a little too Twilightesque.
But if you look at it as play, which is how I see it, then it's just fun (and should not, of course, involve attacking and "hating" others -- that's the truly juvenile part in it to me). Since we're laying our age cards on the table, I'm 64. Sorry to those who've heard this story before but a friend 30 years my junior and I decided to start 'playing teenager' when the Twilight films came along. Have been happily shipping ever since (not that I knew I was "shipping" until I came here). It helps immensely in relating to my 12 year-old granddaughter. And it led me to you interesting folks.
Susan White
302. whiskeywhite
As usual, while I was composing my musings, more good comments were added. Thanks so much @RussianWolf for adding the explanation about Asperger's. I had noticed the reference earlier, but didn't understand it's relevance to the story. And yes, indeed, shipping may be therapeutic. After 30 years shacked up with a person stressed out by racism, I need a little lightness in my life.

Speaking of which, has anyone been watching the coverage of the death of Mandela? Apparently, Bishop Tutu told him that he should stop "shacking up" with Gracia Machel and marry her (at 80). Do folks know that she was also the wife of the late President of Mozambique, Samora Machel? That fine woman has been the wife of two presidential heros of African resistance to colonialism and racism.
Nusi Dekker
303. NusiD
The writers are asking us to make a lot of suppositions for this episode. From what was shown:

1. Kenzi is no longer afraid of the Morrigan when the last time she saw her the Morrigan tried to kill her as a "claimed human terrorist." Is it because Bo is now Dark Fae so Kenzi feels safer? And did Bo tell Kenzi off-screen about thr Una Mens wanting to execute her?? Also, funny that there was absolutely no reaction from Kenzi about Massimo's death, it was like he never existed for her, after being such a HUGE part of her life before Bo came back.

2. Evony separated Bo from Kenzi (and Tamsin) early in the party, and they were not seen together for the entire rest of the episode. That means that Kenzi doesn't know that Lauren is back and in Evony's clutches. Also, Bo doesn't know about the dead bride and groom or that the party was hijacked.

3. Was that supposed to be the bride from the Dark Fae party dumped behind the building? I guess it could have been moved there when everyone was distracted by the dance-off. The scavenger Fae, having smelled the body, feined having to go pee so she could retrieve the Scimitar of Kronos (identified by DL as such so it must have been a Light Fae artifact at one time) that was planted on the body. I think that Bo and DL thought that she had the Scimitar in her bag the whole time, because they didn't notice the body at all.

4. So DL and the Scavenger were left outside with the limo while Bo and Vex drove away in that vintage car? I don't think that Vex was at the Hovel because Kenzi was there with Bruce and Tamsin, and no sign of Vex. So Vex must be at the Dal (which is awfully close to where his torturers the Una Mens are). Or, he could be in DL's apartment, if she's not using it. It seems that anyone can get in it.

5. It seemed to me that the way DL worded her blow-off of Bo at the end, that she was sure that their conversation was being monitored by the Morrigan. Unless she has been spelled, she knows that the Morrigan lies through her teeth. But I think she also senses that Bo is different. She was very surprised that Bo was Dark Fae. It is also way out of character that she has no feelings whatsoever for Crystal. Does she believe that the Morrigan let Crystal go? I just can't believe DL is that hard-assed after saving the guy from choking, knowing that she had exposed herself.
306. nypinta
@SmurfFae, the sad things is that despite all that she has done Kenzi still thinks of herself as not capable because she's not fae.

Bo did make me mad when she got snippy about the Dyson kiss. But I keep changing my mind on why she focused on that. Was she just being a jerk. Was it a deflection because she didn't want to admit how right Kenzi was that Bo can't always be there. The idea of Dyson with someone else hitting her where she wasn't expecting it to because she just takes it for granted that he's hers no matter what...

I'm not so much a shipper usally. I do appreciate when certain characters that have that chemistry are paired up if it's good for the story or just plain fun to watch. But I hate when silly manufactured reasons are created to keep characters apart. it just irks me so damn much. I know that most of it is because networks really hate commited couples. Joss Wheodon had to fight with Fox to let Wash and Zoe be a married couple. And on procedurals there is the idea that if you get the main characters together then they'll succumb to the "Moonlighting" curse. I hope that Castle has proven this wrong. They got Beckette and Castle together a few seasons ago and the show is still going strong, while in a reverse move a pair of the side characters got together and broke up.
307. FireMermaid
Hi all,

I have been a lurker for a couple of seasons now. You all have such great stuff to say. But I do feel the need to comment on the interview with EA and the logic is the enemy of the story bs. Has she seen Sherlock? If logic were a problem this show wouldn't be awesome (if you haven't seen Sherlock, seriously, DO SO ASAP, then come back and yell at me for messing up you life. I like the company.)

But also while reading last week's conversation with all the talk about continuty of story issues, I got to thinking that they really need someone like Steven Moffat who does Doctor Who(and Sherlock). The story arcs and how it all works together has been on my mind since the 50th. Would anyone else love to see LG if Moffat got his hands on it?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
308. Kiersten
It is also way out of character that she has no feelings whatsoever for Crystal. Does she believe that the Morrigan let Crystal go? I just can't believe DL is that hard-assed after saving the guy from choking, knowing that she had exposed herself.
I disagree about it being "way" out of character for DL to demonstrate no feelings re: Crystal's whereabouts. First, I'm betting part of the deal she made with Evony's people to spy on/betray DL involved either a singing career or that small farm of hers. Evony always fulfills her contracts, usually only for a short while until her clients burn out, but she always follows through on her deals. It's likely that, with her part of the deal done, Crystal has moved on to her reward (not like that!). Whether that continues to involve Doctor Lauren remains to be seen (I think it does).

Bo knows jack all about Crystal and DL isn't about to start her reunion with Bo off by confessing to banging Crystal while on the lam, which is her right as she and Bo had been broken up for months by then. Whatever's been decided about Crystal isn't any of Bo's business; it's DL's responsibility and thus her decision to make. And while I think DL has genuine affection for Crystal, spybang notwithstanding, ouside of bedroom antics, she has always been cold and reserved in her relationships (when not drunk) first with NotComaNadia, then with Bo and now with Crystal. Part of that is her medical training to compartmentalized and deal with what's before her first, but a larger part of that is simply her character. Her tending to the choking Fae is an instinctive doctor's response to treat the body in front of you regardless of what or who he/she is, (which, despite her frequent dismissal of it, is the whole point of the Hippocratic Oath). It's more an example of her coldness that a contradiction to it.

I also don't believe The Morrigan was listening in on DL and Bo's conversation; she has no reason to. Evony is confident in the deal she's struck and whatever additional form that takes, it's done. DL can tell Bo whatever she wants, it won't change the circumstances because, despite everyone's dancing around to make it something else, Doctor Lauren wants this. She wants to be free of and safe from the Light Fae whom she has greviously wronged, though she sees it more as being wrongly persecuted. She wants to be able to come and go without answering to an Ash or even a supernatural girlfriend considerably less educated than she. She wears no brand, she has much more freedom to do her medical experiments as the Dark have much fewer scruples. There's no NotComaNadia being held over her head, no secret Karen identity as that's now out, no pull to be with Bo anymore (how cold was that "see ya around" shoulder pat?!) Then there's how everything she does somehow 'isn't her fault." There's so much assumption that there *has* to be a reason DL is "sacrificing" herself to The Dark this way. No there doesn't. This could very well be the real DL taking control of her life. Doctor Lauren aligning with The Dark is really a perfect match.

As an aside, interesting that no one lambasted Doctor Lauren across the Interwebs for not telling Bo about Crystal right away when Dyson took so many hits and slanders over "keeping things from Bo" by not revealing he kissed Kenzi whilst under a spell and not remembering Bo's existance, an excuse DL doesn't have, though again, I don't believe she needs an excuse for Crystal as she and Bo were long broken up and separated by then. Bo and Dyson haven't been a couple for two and a half seasons and yet not revealing his dalliance with Kenzi is somehow tatamont to, say, killing NotComaNadia...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
309. Kiersten
Hi @FireMermaid and welcome out of lurkdom! Thanks for adding your voice to the conversation

J'adore Sherlock!! And Moffat (misogynisitic issues aside) is mad genius writer/plotter for the most part. (I was/am a huge fan of UK Coupling too.)

Yeah, the logic comment in that interview trips a lot of us up. It's seems the total antithesis of good writing. Fiction always has to make sense even in it's wildest carnations (as opposed to reality which rarely makes sense). Terry Pratchatt writes about planets balanced on the back of a massive elephant standing on an equally large turtle both floating in space, but the logic in that world makes sense to that world and so readers go right along with it. As you know from your long time lurking, we frequently turn our brains inside out stumbling through plot hole and other issues that make no sense in the Lost Girl world, no doubt a symptom of the logic of that world frequently not tracking and thus it trips us up in fully enjoying the story.

In other words, you're in good company, babe. 0_0
310. nypinta
@NusiD I think because it's established that Bo and Kenzi tell each other pretty much everything that Bo will find out about the dead wedding couple and Kenzi will find out that Lauren is back in town from Bo. Them filling each other in is pretty much a given.

But where they were when with the savanger fae... was that behind the building where the wedding was or near Dyson's new place? I think that whole scene was just another moment to reinforce that the Dark are more callous with human lives, I guess. First with the dead wedding couple, then using the humans as a buffet, then Pietra casually stabbing a prone human in an ally. *shrugs*

I don't think anything that Lauren said was for anyone other than Bo.

@FireMermaid, I love Sherlock. An insane amount, actually. And Moffat's use of continuity in the 50th left me giddy. GIDDY. (I'm not so keen on what he did to River Song, but whatever. That's another issue that would take up way too much space. ;) )
Kiersten Hallie Krum
311. Kiersten
@nypita & @firemermaid - dont even get me started on what Moffat did to Donna. Also, yes, the mind twisting plotting continuity that went into that great 50th episode was AMAZING
312. nypinta
Donna Noble has left the Library. Donna Noble has been saved.
(In my head though Ten 2.0 that is on Pete's World found Pete's World Donna and she works for that Torchwood and their best friends. And she's a professor. With a hot husband.)
Stephanie Ong
313. RussianWolf
Actually the first reference was about my virginity at the time.
Aspergers is a form of autism. It makes me anti-social, not fond of touching by others (I have to feel VERY comfortable with a person to let them so much as touch my shoulder or hug) and makes me "cold" towards others as logic and reason instead of emotion and empathy rule my actions.
Hormones during ovulation override the whole anti-touch aspect which is why I was a virgin at 21. I'm only interested in guys at the most dangerous time.

But it also explains my fandom obsession. I was introduced into fanfiction because of a therapy exercise. At a young age I didn't understand WHY people did or say certain things and so I was told to "get into their heads". Fanfic was my gateway to understanding people and I was encouraged to study fiction relationships and how others perceive them and then make my own calls and explain why I did and why not other ships. It helped grow my interactions with others too. I'm no longer that "rude one" as I had been labeled at 14.

And Yes, Gracia is an amazing woman.

I think Kenzi saw the invitation as a "bury the hatchet/let bygones be bygones" gesture and so she felt safe. I just wish we knew what Bo has chosen to say to her. It would help us understand a lot.

Someone mentioned that the knife was Tricks.

Moffett would Rock the show. I mentioned previously the Jacket Delemma. Continuity error vs plot device.
(Wasn't Donna under RTD control?)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
314. Kiersten
@NYPinTA That's would be awesome!

I so like being in your head.
315. nypinta
@RussianWolf, I think you are correct. Donna was when RTD was still running the show. Moffat took over when Eleven started with Amy Pond. (I would have loved a season of Ten and Pond. Alas...)

Also, I meant "they're best friends" not "their best friends".

@Kiersten, I like it in my head too. Sometimes too much. ;P
Nadine Robb
319. cmm
@FireMaid Welcome and yes sherlock is epic! I own both seasons and ITA to all you said about EA.
Dine Stueg
320. Nocturne
Wow, so many comments. I can't keep up :p

I'm also a huge fan of Doctor Who. (Too bad we almost have to wait a whole year before new episodes will air :'( )Although the first few episodes were a bit weird for my taste, I became very attached to the show after that. I love how they build up to the final or special episode of a season by already giving tiny hints in almost every episode before that. They always seem to have an elaborate plan in advance of what the story will be. I would love it if a Doctor Who writer would help with Lost Girl.

@RussianWolf. I always like to hear other points of view, so I don't think I will mind too much lol. I really like the name you came up with for your couple, much better than Denzi! And I admire you for openness. I think it's great that shipping wars actually helped you to express yourself. All this time I was thinking it only brings out the worst in people ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
322. Kiersten
@Nocturne Much as I loathe the faecest union, I think "Russian Wolf" is my favorite 'ship moniker, though I tend to default to "Kyson". Denzi is just silly
323. drusilla_doll
@whiskeywhite: Nice of you to ask! Yep, I'm a professionally trained actress with experience in theatre, TV and film. However, it's been about a decade since I worked in the industry. My hubby (whom I met at drama school) is still active, but I'm happy to focus on my jewelry-making now and my six year old son. To be honest it's a tough business in which to earn a steady living post 30 and female, but I think everyone's aware of that. ;)

While I agree that Evony keeps her bargains to some extent, we've also seen her kill people just because she felt like it: repair man, manicure lady and so on. I like the idea of Lauren working for the Dark and making a better deal for herself. However, it just feels like she's rationalised away just how cavalier the Dark are with other people's lives - human or Fae. Yes, the Light are often strict assholes and she has every right to want a change for the better. But her new employer is the one who did all the 'bullshit' Lauren accused the Light of doing - and more. That's why it's so weird to see her so pro-Dark. If she really subscribes to the 'Do No Harm' medical oath as well, how can she be okay with the bridal buffet and the forcing someone to spy bang, abductions, imprisonment, threats of torture/killing of innocents and so on.

/shrug. I think it's an interesting plot choice and I'm happy with her getting this arc, but her 'The Light didn't come save me' spiel was so silly considering why she'd had to go into hiding in the first place.
Because of choices SHE'D made. Is she ignoring that it was The Morrigan herself who'd gleefully declared all claimed humans terrorists and subject to execution on sight. DL's claim was also undermined by the fact that Dyson was, right then, off trying to find her and make sure she was okay.

Perhaps, as some commenters have suggested above, it was simply a speech meant to reiterate what Kenzi had pointed out: that Bo can't always be there and protect the ones she loves. I'm cool with Kenzi and Lauren looking for ways to empower themselves. I just wasn't very impressed by the excuses DL made for shifting allegiance. I guess being free to come and go is the most important thing to Lauren right now. Especially when the alternative was a Dark prison cell. (Or possibly a Light one, but I'm not convinced). But do we really think she could just go on a two week vacation right now if she chose to? Would Evony allow that? Especially with the Una Mens in town? I highly doubt it. How would that be different from Hale not being willing to give Lauren more than a weekend of vacation, right before his important inauguration as the new Ash?

Perhaps we'll find out more about this arrangement in future episodes and it will make more sense. I hope so. More scenes with Evony and Vex and other Dark characters would certainly be a plus. So I can't argue there. :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
324. Kiersten
If she really subscribes to the 'Do No Harm' medical oath as well, how can she be okay with the bridal buffet and the forcing someone to spy bang, abductions, imprisonment, threats of torture/killing of innocents and so on.

My point is that I think we pretty much did away with the "Do No Harm" deal as far as Doctor Lauren is concerned when she stuck a big honking needle in a strapped-down, imprisoned Dyson.

To be clear, I completely agree about the atonality of "the Light didn't come looking for me...I don't blame you, Bo" bullshit, but the rest of what she said to Bo about joining the Dark Fae does track and, for once is a (though not perfect) organic character progression for DL, which is refreshing. At this point, I'm hoping LG sticks to its guns and follows through with it rather than retconning it to "she was playing to Evony who is holding Crystal hostage" cheat
325. FireMermaid
@nypinta, I looooooooove that idea for Donna. She is my favorite. Hands down.
326. Darthfaeder
Haha I loved Donna she was my second fav character for episode 5. Tamsin of course being the first. She sounds and acts alot like Melissa
McCarthy. When she fell down after being kicked and said " Women down" I about laughed my ass off!! LOL!!!
@Kiersten and Drusilla I think Lauren has actually lost her ever loving
mind this season. Nothing she is saying makes much sense.
@Firemaid welcome to the forum. I have been just so busy talking about LG at the other forums and blogs I haven't spent much time here welcoming all the new comers. Glad to see they have decided to stop lurking and start talking :)
Dine Stueg
327. Nocturne
@Kiersten, I'm right there with you on Dyson and Kenzi. I just can't get past the brother/sister relationship they have and see them romantically involved.

All those shippernames are pretty weird (Yes, talking about you, 'Kale'). One thing I noticed: Bo is always mentioned last in those names, which is strange since she is the lead: Tambo, Valkubus, Doccubus and DyBo (If you change it up it would be BoDy lol). I guess Team badass is the only exception.
328. nypinta
I saw that gif and made me laugh then too.

You know, the funny thing is, Lauren's case to Bo about the Light not coming for her when the Una Mens came to town would have made perfect sense if my dream scenario of her and Hale working together and her having gone undercover for the Light at Taft's compound was real. In return she had bargained for her freedom, which went into effect once the cavalry arrived and took down Taft and his staff. If that had been how things happened and she was off on her own and ignorant of the danger she was in until Evony explained things to her, I can see her being upset that the Light just left her out to dry. And I have to say that she does have cause to be upset with the Light. Not that they don't also have cause to be upset with her as well. But the Light fae, not to sound too childish, started it. They saw that Lauren had a talent they wanted and the Ash cursed her girlfriend to secure her servitude. I think Lauren has every right to resent that because A) they took away someone from her for 5 years and B) she might have gone with them even without needing something in return. But that's not how the fae work. They see something they want and they take it without asking, because asking a human for something is beneath them. Then when she finally digs in her heels and demands they hold up their end of the bargin the Ash throws his own fit and puts her in a dungeon until he can come up with a way to keep her his servant. So Lachlan uses Bo. I think as the Ash he had access to all deals and knew all about the cursing nail and as the Ash he would have the authority to undo it himself. But instead he used Bo to undo the curse to test her, not only of her abilities to go up against such a dangerous fae, but also her trustworthyness by testing whether or not she would tell Lauren what he told her she couldn't. And that also gave him the leverage to get Lauren to re-up with the Light because now Lauren thinks of him as an Ash that actually takes what she needs into consideration and he sets himself up as being better than the last Ash. Plus, the last time she said something he didn't like, he locked her up. I'd have pledged too. Finally though he confides in her why he really needs her to stay and nothing makes someone feel special than a person in power telling them a secret. So she stands beside Bo, the Light, the Dark, and Kenzi to take on an enemy of all faedom and they defeat it. Woot! Finally, maybe her and Kenzi are going to be looked at with some respect! Nope. In fact, one of the fae she stood by during the batte is now the one treating her like property all over again. I can understand why Lauren left. She finally realizes that she was nothing but property to them and she never would be anything else. I think the difference, in her mind, is that she knows damn well that Evony probably wouldn't let her just leave for a two week vacation, but then she doesn't think of Evony as a friend like she did Hale.

But none of that explains the "the Light didn't come for me" line. Nor does it explain why she'd be Ok with signing up with the Dark since Evony was pulling the same crap as the fist Ash. Lauren was something she wanted so she put her in a position where the only option is to say yes, even going so far as getting her a pretty girl to fall for and then threaten to take. I would have much rather they skipped the whole abduction bit and had Evony just walk into the diner to tell her about the Una Mens and give her proposal and Lauren, realizing the danger, agrees. Done. Crystal could have still been used by Evony, but just for information on Lauren before she came in with her proposal, not to force her into a garage and once Lauren finds out she still could have had her "spybang" epiphony.
329. nypinta
Oh snap. I just realized that Lauren actually prefers being owned by the Dark than she does by Bo, knowing that even though Bo would technically, according to fae law, "own" her that Bo would never ever see it that way. I never really thought about the part where she says if she's going to be in a cage it will be one of her own choosing. So she chose the one that isn't Bo. And as she explains it, it isn't because Bo can't protect her. It's just because it's the one she wants. Damn. That's harsh.
Dine Stueg
330. Nocturne
Now I'm thinking about it... if you want to use succubus in the name, the first part would be 'suc' which wouldn't make the shippername very appealling ;)

Sorry, I'm rambling. I need to sleep ;)

@nypinta. I think it would indeed have been much better if they included the scene of Evony talking to Lauren about joining the dark. It would have made much more sense than the reason Lauren has given now. Now the option is still open that Lauren did all of this to save Crystal or another (probably heroic) reason, which I'm not looking forward to.
331. nypinta
The only heroic reason I would accept is if Evony had made a deal with the Una Mens that if Lauren agreed to pledge to the Dark for life as pennance for whatever the fae want to say she did in exchange for sparing Kenzi and all other claimed humans from being put to death. Evony could have made that deal with the Una Mens first and then 'tested' Lauren to see if she even wanted Lauren on her side. Crystal wouldn't be enough, to make Lauren's decision a sacrifice. I'm sure she might have insisted that they let Crystal go though. But I wouldn't be impressed if she traded her freedom for some random woman that was betraying her. And it would explain why Evony was telling Bo that Vex was the only lose string that the Una Mens were waiting to tie up. It might also explain why the first place Evony went was Lauren's apartment. Vex told the Una Mens where Evony was. They free her and have their time with her. It might even have been them that took her eye, not Vex with the tazer. But the deal could have been finalized after Bo had gone to the Una Mens and both Kenzi and Lauren were still on their hit list, which would explain why the Una Mens told Bo they were personas non whatever. Who knows if Evony woud have also made sure that Lauren never told Bo or not. But Evony would want Lauren as enticement for Bo to stay Dark, so Lauren's brush off would still be her own and not something she was forced to do by Evony.
332. drusilla_doll
I wonder if I'm just disappointed because I never got to see Lauren being offered a deal by Evony, then DL turning the tables, using her smarts by reminding TM of the various benefits of gaining her allegiance and then giving EVONY a list of terms and conditions in a counter offer. That would have been a much more empowering scene than to just spring a 'Oh, look I'm with the Dark now, surprise! Isn't my dress pretty?' reunion. But I guess all the best stuff happens off screen.

Oh well, another opportunity missed, in my opinion.
333. nypinta
It's weird how so much of the best stuff happens off screen. I'm starting to think that the writers don't think they can pull off those scenes so they just lead up to a moment and then go to black and figure we'll be ok not actually seeing the converstation because Bo makes a passing mention of it later. Now, when Stella told Kenzi what happens to a human that a fae has claimed if that fae dies and we couldn't hear what she was saying, that was an effective use of the audience not being told everything. We couldn't hear what she said and Kenzi never said it out loud and we have to rely on Kenzi's reaction to understand that what Stella said was baaaaaaaaaaad.
Stephanie Ong
334. RussianWolf
Glad to hear you don't see me as "the one to ignore".
I keep hearing that people are amazed when I speak frankly about myself. I get it, took a while to understand this reaction, but I still don't feel "brave" or anything.
A truth is a truth and won't change even if I want it to.
I never had the whole "embarrassed" response. I understand it now and that it can motivate people but I've never had it myself. To me it is a building block of who I am and maybe the knowledge can help people understand me better. People aren't formed in a vacuum and you can't assume why people think or act certain ways without a little background. So providing it is the most logical. (It is probably why I find people frustrating to understand and have to generalize my empathy)

To this day I still don't "get" how good friends = the same as relatives or too close to be lovers (I grew up with a sister only so never had a brother to compare relationship to)
I usually assume that someone who sees "Faecest" has a brother who has a parallel relationship to my ship and because one would be wrong the fictional one becomes wrong too.
I understand if one sees Kenzi as too loyal to Bo to act on any lust or feelings. Dyson's love for Bo not allowing it. (both giving a sense of betrayal not Faecest) Kenzi's inferiority complex preventing it but this makes Hale off limit too (more a Faestiality than Faecest). Dyson's Fae complex at the beginning fits here too - he has however stopped insulting her and her humanity, to him, isn't an issue anymore and it reminds me of Sebacians beliefs and Aeryn. I understand the whole "He is Fae and would suffer when Human Kenzi dies so why go there thats just too cruel" (Avoiding or negating the ship out of Pity or heartbreak not Faecest). I even understand the rut concept/single track mind - Like meeting a married man makes normal people place them in the off limits category and never revisit it even when things change - and it takes a lot of drama to force the brain to reevaluate and switch tracks. (Which is why I'm never surprised people don't get my Sam/Daniel shippage in Stargate)
But I can't understand why the "vomit" reaction. It is illogical to me. I need MORE background on a person to understand why they feel this way. Which is why I assume their family situation to fit my logic. (Which is why what baffles me the most was a friend who could say Sam/Daniel were too sibling like because when they meet he was married and yet could ship Erica and Father Jack in V without blinking. No, I didn't ship Erica and Hobbes I shipped Joshica. YES I habitually seem to ship "wrong"/crazy/o_O/huh)

Regarding DL: There is a term I heard once - Circle of Ethics. It has been used to explain why some people are okay with medical animal study or meat eating or Abortion. Why some can put animals rights and lives above people. Why some can put an ideology above the rights and choices of others. (DL put bombing pipelines above the choice to drill oil and ultimately lives above her ideology) just like the concept of injecting Gorilla waste into man to stop poaching is looked at as extreme so too can letting Fae feed on humans.

I think Lost Girl is the series with the most fix-it, coda and missing scene fic ever.
335. nypinta
Oh great. Now I'm going to end up making a list of all the times something that happened off screen should have happened on. Because I do that. Make lists.
Nusi Dekker
336. NusiD
This is one episode where TOO MUCH apparently happened off-screen. :P

Why is DL so against the Light Fae but had apparetly been in contact with Dyson the whole time she was in hiding at the cafe? It's like she has a split personality or something, because that explanation at the end on why she picked Evony over Bo's "claim" or her Light Fae loft just makes my head explode in trying to make any sense of it.
C. H.
337. SmurfFae

OK, I'm really intrigued by the preview.
It really looks like the Una Mens were hiding in Bo's closet and peeping in on them to catch them red-handed. So creepy. Will Bo go all out Flibisk (since we're talking Farscape) ?
Also very intrigued by the opera singer. Bo knew she would loose her memory? I'm out of theories.

We don't know if DL ever swore the hippocratic oath. She's part med. doctor and part research scientist. (I think that's only possible on TV.) We don't know if Karen ever received a medical degree.
She's been more or less a slave the last 7 (or so) years, so it makes sense for her to jump at the chance of real freedom. Especially since her new employer hides her from the Una Mens. (But the fact that she need to hide kind of makes her a prisoner again, I think.)
338. drusilla_doll
Real freedom with Evony? LOLOLOLOL. I'd be more likely to be counting down the days to when she gets melted reason whatsoever.
Nusi Dekker
339. NusiD
You can be a research scientist with only an MD (lots of those at UCSF Medical School, where I used to work as a lab technician). I assume DL got her med degree as Lauren Lewis, since the research papers she wrote are under that name. Interesting how she could pass off her false identity to Yale University. They must be pretty lax in records-checking. ;)
Carmen Pinzon
340. bungluna
Now I'm obsessed with all the conversations that never take place on screen too. I'm begining to think that the script writers for LG don't know HOW to write a meaningfull conversation.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
341. Kiersten
@NusiD - DL was not in contact with anyone until her memories returned. Memory-loss Kenzi had left her several messages but they say in E1 that no one had heard from her and that was probably best as the Light Fae were still "looking" for her. When she called Dyson in E2 while he was looking for Bo, that was the first time she'd contacted him (or anyone in that world) since Taft's lab
342. TheUberFan
What strikes me odd about Lauren's behavior is that if she's doing this to protect Bo, she knows that this is the number one thing Bo detests...being lied to for her own protection.

If she's doing this to save Crystal, then honestly I still don't know why she wouldn't tell Bo and enlist her. Remember how she ran to Bo's to get away from Lachlann? She used to trust Bo's instincts and she knows she's very powerful and capable.

And even if she did think this was too big for Bo to handle, she could have presented it in such a way where she was keeping Bo in the loop without getting her involved.

Instead she says she prefers to be owned by the dark and see you around sometime. Ouch.
345. nypinta
Lauren might not have been in contact with Dyson the entire time, but she was once she rememebered Bo so she knew how to get in touch with him. He was right to warn her to stay away. I supposed she considers him not coming for her then as part of the Light not doing so? The thing is, unless Evony has a deal with the Una Mens, the Dark have put Lauren in greater danger by bringing her back. The Dark can't stop them if they decide to come for Lauren. And I can't see Evony fighting to protect Lauren if they do. So I don't understand why she thinks she's safer being back where the danger is.
Nusi Dekker
346. NusiD
UberFaenatic and nypinta, your arguments are far more logical than what actually took place on screen. It's really too bad that you are not on the LG staff. What does the executive story editor do? Just scan over the scripts and okay them?
347. nypinta
Just musing on the episode where Lauren and Bo go into Dyson's mind because he's on trail. It occurs to me that both are Dark now and Dyson is Light so them going into his mind means that not only is he accused of murder, like he was in Faetal Justice, but he must have been handed over to the Dark (or he turns himself in) this time. It'll be interesting to see how a Dark fae trial is conducted. Does the accused get someone from the Light to help defend him? The Ash seemed to indicate as much in S1. Or do the Dark play both roles, (which is why it's usually a given that if you're accused, you're dead.) But this time Bo and Lauren are Dark so he's got allies and they step up to defend him? But this is two episodes away, right?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
348. Kiersten
@Nypita I believe that episode is E7, which is next week. First the opera singer.
Susan White
349. whiskeywhite
Thanks, again, @RussianWolf for explaining more about how you live with Asperger's. You don't have to be "brave" if you don't want to :-), but like @Nocturne, I do appreciate your openness. It helps me learn about this form of autism and your practical examples really help. If logic is so important to you, the logic gaps in LG must really annoy you. And, as you say, knowing more about each other's background helps us all understand what lies behind our attitudes and approaches to the show.

On that subject, as I've mentioned frequently, I'm very new to this whole form of communication. If I'm being gauche or foolish in being so revealing of my personal life, somebody please tell me.

Just as @RussianWolf has been trained to "get into the heads" of people and thus characters in shows, I would assume @Drusilla_doll that getting into the head of characters must have been part of your training as an actress, thus leading both to your thoughtful analyses and your frustration when the characters don't seem to have their heads on straight (logical action-wise).

Speaking of which, I do believe that we're going to find out that there's some big heroic reason behind Lauren's choice of the Dark. The whole 'see 'ya around' coldness is just too reminiscent of the "I loved (past tense) you too" speech in Taft's office.

It just occurred to me, if Lauren left her cell phone behind when she left to go with Taft, and hasn't been in touch since, how is Kenzi calling her and leaving messages? And on the subject of whether Lauren called Dyson or Kenzi first (just to revisit a long finished conversation), I like @SuzyM originally assumed that she called Dyson first because we see a phone ringing in the pocket of a leather jacket. Someone else said, no, that was Kenzi's phone so she called Kenzi first and only when no one answered did she call Dyson. But Dyson has always carried a flip phone, while the phone in the pocket was not a flip phone. Did Dyson upgrade :-)? I would normally search through Season 4 scenes to see what kind of phone he's carrying now, but I don't have the patience. The point of course is not the phone but who Lauren trusted more to call for help (or felt least uncomfortable calling).

@Nocturne is a lovely screen name. Are you by any chance Canadian? I notice the two 'l's in 'appealling'. Or were you just tired? :-)
350. nypinta
Next episode, while being a case of the week, seems will be another that moves the story forward. Bo gets to rescue someone, but it's someone with more answers on her time on the train. I'm liking this season! (Illogical arguments by some characters for their decisions aside.)

The episode with Dyson on trial could also answer the question of can Bo, Lauren, and Dyson work together even with their personal histories? Will this cement that Dyson/Lauren friendship. Will it be the episode of my dreams where Bo is the third wheel?

@whiskeywhite Lauren did leave her cell behind, but Kenzi didn't know that so she kept leaving her messages on it because Lauren hadn't been in touch to tell her she couldn't get messages on her phone anymore. And I do believe Dyson did upgrade, yeah. I think she called Dyson because it's just instinct to call the one that is thought of the most as protector and he's in the with Light and could be the one with the most information on her standing and if she can come back or not.
Katherine Bloom
351. lsbloom
I was reading my favorite non-H&H TV blogger, and while not talking about Lost Girl at all, he was talking about genre television:
The logic is ridiculous and could have been fixed with even a minimal amount of brainstorming. Sorry to harp on this stuff, but logic tends to be important on shows like this. How can viewers be expected to care about the stakes these characters face when the writers don't seem to?
Maybe somebody should tell him that logic is the enemy of plot? Or should we tell EA engaged is caring which leads to dramatic tension, whereas enraged leads to not caring and a total lack of tension?
Nusi Dekker
352. NusiD
@lsbloom YES!!!

I hope I'm not too disappointed with the opera singer episode... :p
Carmen Pinzon
353. bungluna
...enraged leads to not caring...
I was almost at this point during S3. Have to admit that this season has reeled me back in. Lack of logic notwithsanding, the overall plot has been advanced at a brisk pace and we have had no epidose go by without learning something.
Stephanie Ong
354. RussianWolf
@whiskeywhite - it is pure agony to have to hunt and peck to read between the lines and extrapolate character motivations to fill in the logic gaps in this show. It is a factor in what makes my posts go from verbose to tl;dr.

Regarding phone calls. The way I saw it Kenzi called DL's number in 401 because regardless if she ditched the phone Kenzi should know enough about stolen cells to know owners can have the SIM cards cloned and the original number kept. Also an owner can access voice mail without having the phone in hand so Kenzi probably hoped DL would access her VM later down the line.
I think DL called Dyson both times. He upgraded his phone as evident by the fact he showed the pic of the burnt card Kenzi sent him on his smartphone not a flip phone. ("Do you have renderings of these transgressions?" Eddy hopes to see Lesbian porn and gets a burnt card pic; it made me laugh.)
Susan White
356. whiskeywhite
Yes, @RussianWolf! That's what I like. Backing up arguments with detailed, concrete evidence -- in this case of Dyson's phone upgrade. I remember that scene clearly. However, I think you may be giving the writers a bit too much credit with the whole SIM card explanation ;-)

I'm leaving Canada on Tuesday. I sure hope my brother-in-law has streaming capacity for me to watch the Dec. 22 & 29 episodes from Trinidad (Eek! Panic. I just realized I may be geo-blocked). Then there's the time needed every day to follow you folks. On the plus side, I'm hoping to see The Hobbit-2 while I'm there.
Dine Stueg
360. Nocturne
@RussianWolf. Maybe I'm the exception, but I don't have a brother ;) I don't compare the Kenzi/Dyson relationship with that or another sibling relationship in real life. I think for me it has a lot to do with Bo. Since most of the conversations/scenes between Dyson and Kenzi are about Bo and Dysons love for Bo, it isn't romantic to me. Also Kenzi rooting for Bo and Dyson to be together was for me a sign, it wasn't a love connection between the wolf and the human. I'm also not a fan of hook-ups/relationships with the ex of a best friend. It feels like being second choice and always comparing the relationships with each other. You're welcome to disagree ofcourse ;)

I think it was weird in ep 4.01 they kissed and then in 4.02, when they had their memory back, there was no awkwardness between them at all. Whether they have feelings for each other or not, it was strange to me they acted like they always had been. Like nothing happened. Is this a writers mistake or am I missing something?

@whiskeywhite. Thank you! Although I have Canadian relatives, I'm not Canadian. I'm Dutch... so far far away from you guys.
Suzanne Metaxas
361. SuzyM
Have a fun trip @whiskeywhite you chose a great time to go ;) will miss all the snow. Don't for get to get around geo blocking ;)
C. H.
362. SmurfFae
Since we're talking of other TV shows: (Ok, this might be LG-relevant) Has anyone seen the new UK-series 'Yonderland'? It started last month, with only 6 episodes aired so far. It's about an average mom, Debbie, who's taken by an elf to a magical (Yonder-)land as a 'saviour'. It's mostly a fantasy-parody with very british humor. (If you're not into silly stuff, it's not your cup of tea.)
The inhabitants of Yonderland are in part played by humans and part muppets. Every episode is only 20 min; I guess it's PG 12; since it's airing in UK it might not be avaiable in your country (100% legally).

Anyway: I guess it's possible the creators have watched Lost Girl: In episode 1x03 'Reformation' (mild SPOILERS ahead) the elf wants to show Debbie a rare event that only occurs every 1000 years, when all the trees in the forest yawn simultaneously, also known as 'The Yawning'.
The plot point is abandoned in favour of a better quest and when you hear the trees yawn it's actually kind of anti-climactic.
367. nypinta
Never heard of Yonderland. Sounds cute. I read a tidbit on twitter that we won't get any answers about the seed in the next episode.
Suzanne Metaxas
368. SuzyM
I've watch the Dawning a few times and understand it a little better now. They so missed their opportunity with that episode. could have been so much more!
Stephanie Ong
369. RussianWolf
@Nocturne - No brother and yet you see it as Faecest? I would love to pick your brain now.
Do you just not support the ship or actually have the viceral "vomit" reaction?
Do you feel it's "wrong" or just not plausible/realistic?

Is it because you just see it as Kenzi's not wanting to betray Bo? Her not wanting to be second/always compared to "the pretty one"? Kenzi has put Dyson in the "taken/married/unavailable" category of her brain?

Technically, only if you have a viceral aversion or large sense of "wrongness" about the ship is it true Faecest. If your reaction is just: huh? That makes no sense? Not my cup of tea; then that just makes you a non-shipper.

@whiskeywhite - Have a good trip. Don't fall for tourist traps!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
370. Kiersten
Kenzi has put Dyson in the "Big Brother" category of her brain, which works since Dyson has put Kenzi in the "Little Sister" category of *his* brain. *That's* why their making out was faecest and super creepy and yes, a huge heaping sense of wrongness. I dont think you need to have a brother or any kind of sibling to understand that or that kind of love between people who are not blood kin.

Kenzi and Dyson's relationship is much deeper and more intimate than mere banging partners. They've spent three seasons building a unique, rock solid relationship that is independent of Bo and their respective relationships to her. Which is why it survives even when Bo is taken from their memories and why adding a sexual/romantic component didn't work between them. Kenzi was filling the void/role in the Fae world that losing Bo from their memories had left behind. Some parts of doing that worked better (the investigating) than others (hooking up with Dyson). She was even wearing the damn kimono, a visual representation of how she was filling Bo's role especially by making out with Dyson.

But without Bo there and thus their memories of things that involved her, like the body swap that bonded Dyson and Kenzi even more deeply, were also altered and/or removed, they couldnt understand *why* they felt so strongly for one another. Naturally they first tried to translate it into sexy times because that's the easiest (and usually most fun) option, which majorly didn't work because that is not and never has been and never will be the way they feel about one another.

The faecest is emotional and Kenzi feels it deeply and, in her right mind, is more than a little horrified by the fact that it happened. Dyson's a little less torn up about it b/c he's been around a long time and I'm sure this isnt the first time he's done something sexually outre while under a spell. That they haven't openly talked about it is more due to the fact that they accept it happened "under a spell" (even if Bo isnt OK with that just yet) than any linger sense of sexual attraction for one another. (It's probably more due to the fact that the EA seems to think such conversations either dont need to happen at all or offscreen to be referred to later.) That familial bond is front and center again when they're putting TeenTamsin to sleep and so much more true to who they are than anything else.

Personally, the whole thing creeped me out but good and I hope they never, ever go back there again
Suzanne Metaxas
371. SuzyM
I also can only see Kenzi and Dyson like brother/sister I see them more though as brother-in-law and sister-in-law. Bo is Kenzi's big sister and Dyson is Bo's lover. I would have been grossed out to have sexual feelings for my sisters steady boyfriend. Therefore the idea of Kenzi/Dyson grosses me out.
374. nypinta
I've always seen Kenzi and Dyson in a similar light. She's never really shown any interest in him in any other way that makes them being together anything but off, in my opinion. Same with Dyson. He's never been shown to look at Kenzi in any other way than with either bemusement or in a protective way. And that one time he was super angry because she accidently cursed him... (which he was right to be angry. But he got over it.) That's just how I've always seen them. So in the opener when they were looking at each other all gooey it was , "ew ew ew, STOP THAT, ew", in my brain. And it seemed to be a bit "ew" to them too. Which is why I think Kenzi was extra sensative to things being off when she and Hale were kissing and he was anointed with that stuff from the oracle. Despite how much Kenzi might have wanted to kiss Hale, she could tell that once again, something was amiss.
Susan White
375. whiskeywhite
Thanks for the good wishes and TV tips for my trip. I have local protection against tourist traps. Here's one story -- which I will argue is LG related. We went to Carnival in 1988. THE #1 top song was "Woman is Boss" sung, of course, by a woman Calypsonian, Denyse Plummer. See it here (it sounds better recorded). Whenever it was mentioned by, say, an MC the women in the crowd would cheer and the men would boo. On the street one night (at 4:00 am) with my partner and his best friend, I desperately wanted to buy a 'Woman is Boss" t-shirt. With my white, tourist face the price would have skyrocketed had our friend not bargained forcefully that I was his "sister-in-law". I still have the t-shirt, now sadly too small. Another time, they made me scrunch down and hide in the car when they stopped to buy fruit -- again instituting price control.

Will our Bo be more (Bo)ss? We'll wait and see.

Interesting idea, @SuzyM, that Dyson and Kenzi are more like brother-in-law and sister-in-law. However, they seem closer than those relationships would normally be (at least in my family. But we are a cold WASPy lot).
Susan White
376. whiskeywhite
Forgot -- GREAT story about "The Yawning" @SmurfFae!

Here's another Denyse Plummer song that does her skill more justice -- and she's surrounded by beautiful dancing jumbies.
377. nypinta
I also saw Dyson and Kenzi in a sibling light. He's never indicated that he had any interest in Kenzi in any way other than his bemusement of her and later his respect. And Kenzi has never shown any interest in Dyson in any way except as Bo's partner. So when they got together in the first episode it did feel off for me and I had a bit of an "ew" reaction. Which they seemed to have as well. I think the experience in the first episode, and how it felt off even though they thought it was how they were supposed to be is why Kenzi was so sensative to her kissing Hale was also off, even if she wanted to. She recognized the feeling of her desire being fae fueled.
Suzanne Metaxas
378. SuzyM
@Wiskeywhite In our family our brother-in-laws are like brothers :) Greeks are like that :D

Greeks families are very close, in fact the word for cousin is "exádelfos" the word for brother is " adelfos" so cousin is sort of like brother once removed :)
379. drusilla_doll
I confess that I kinda like Dyson/Kenzi - I get why others find it too faecesty, but I love their chemistry and their bond. As a crack ship, I can see how things might develop in fanfic land (when a lot of circumstances can be changed dramatically). However, I don't see it ever being able to develop canonically on the show. Bo is Dyson's love and I don't foresee that changing in the next couple of seasons. Still, I can see the appeal, while still acknowledging that they do view each other more as big brother and younger sis.

So are we ready for today's ep? Presumably this is when the cellar sex scene happens. I am fervently hoping that Bo will show a little more investment this time and not just be using Dyson's feelings to her advantage. I guess we'll see. I am totally cool with people having sex for a whole lot of reasons - frustration, revenge, needing to connect, rebound, comfort, solace and so on. So I am not expecting their scene to be all about romantic love declarations or any of that Hallmark stuff, it just wouldn't fit with what's been happening on the show right now. However, I do want to see some emotional reciprocation from Bo if she's going to continue sleeping with him, especially now that the stakes are higher. I want to see that she wants Dyson, because she still has feelings for him too, not because he's convenient and Lauren's not willing. Or at least have some modicum of awareness of how she's been taking him for granted.

People have short memories. Remember how messed up he got over falling in love with this extraordinary woman who'd stolen his heart? When he was forced to go into therapy because he wasn't handling how strong his feelings were? Then we had the season of douchy Dyson having to cope with his love being ripped from him. I just really want Bo not to mistreat him because she knows she can always rely on him to have her back and give her what she asks for.

It probably won't happen. But it would be nice.
Dine Stueg
380. Nocturne
@Russianwolf. I wouldn't say it was a vomit reaction, but it did gross me out. I can agree with SuzyM on the sister-in-law and brother-in-law reasoning. Bo and Kenzi are self-proclaimed sisters. Dyson getting to know Kenzi, was because of Bo. Kenzi was her family and he grew fond of her. For me, it stopped there. During their conversations later I did not see (or maybe did not want to see) any sexual attraction between then, because Dyson loved Bo and Kenzi is too loyal to even got there and hurt Bo, her bff and sister. For me, their relationship became like relatives, because they have a deep bond, but not without any romantic feelings. I also think I see Kenzi and Dyson more as family than as just friends is, because of their personalities. Dyson is usually very serious and Kenzi acts juvenile, especially in the beginning of the show (even more than Bo :P), which gives it more an older brother- younger sister vibe than a friendship based on mutual interests/characteristics.

I'm excited for the episode of tonight. More plot development, the return of Dyson and Hale will probably return as well :) Unfortunately I'll have to wait for tommorrow to see the episode, because it's 4 am here when it airs...

@drusilla_doll. I'm also hoping for Bo to have at least an emotional connection with Dyson. Not because I want them together. I liked them in the beginning, but the triangle just keeps getting dragged on and is becoming too boring for me. I'd rather want Bo to be single at this point. However, I do want them to have an emotional connection, because else Bo really has become a *peep* for sleeping with him to regain energy, while she knows he has feelings for her. It would ruin her character even more.
HG Prime
382. nypinta
I too always saw Kenzi and Dyson as emotional siblings. And I never got the sense from Kenzi that she had any attraction to Dyson and the same from him. I think that was part of why even under the spell they both seemed to feel that something was off about them being together even if they thought they were supposed to be.
HG Prime
384. nypinta
Sorry for the spam. I was having trouble posting.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
385. Kiersten
*jumps up and down waving* I can see you @nypita!! I can see you!

HG Prime
389. nypinta
My posts keep not showing up till much later. Or I'm trapped in some time loop. Still investigating.
Nadine Robb
390. cmm
OK this episode.... what?? I'm at a loss here. It was really good, but, this is the first time i'm actually not sure where things are going on a Lost Girl episode.
Nadine Robb
393. cmm
What happened in this episode lol. You need to watch it Kiersten. It's actually quite good and the mystery of what happened to Bo just deepened. Dare I say it I actually like that doctor in this episode... gasp! The world is ending.
394. Stacymd2
Hi Guys and Gals,

So, how was the epi? Good? Bad? Wait for Bitten to premiere?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
395. Kiersten
I did watch it, kinda, and yes, Doctor Lauren was acutally likeable! It's amazing how much more interesting her character becomes when not shackled to Bo. That said, I will be PISSED if they walk all her choices back by claiming she was secretly "working" for the Light with or without their knowledge at the end of this. Honestly, there was more chemistry in her scenes with Evony than any doccutopia scenes in S3.

Oh, and Bo and Dyson pretty much set a few rooms on fire...all without her using him for succujuice. They had some great tender moments at the end talking things out. She reveals herself to him in ways she does with no one else, not even Kenzi. Though Bo's increasing acceptance of her Dark status is beginning to worry me. She is definitely more violent and amoral than she was and even she is beginning to talk about herself as though she's a different person. I'm intrigued, but worried.

I missed a lot of dialogue though and the feed was bad and I really need to watch it again.
Nadine Robb
396. cmm
It was really good Stacymd2. It just brought up more questions than it answered LOL! Hence my confused post. I don't want to spoil anything so I'd rather wait until you guys have viewed it then discusss.
Nadine Robb
397. cmm
@Kiersten I had to say it but i'd ship evony and that doctor lol! What you mention though about her doing something for the light is what I thought too. In which case like you said it spoils it. But I did think the Evony scenes with her were cute and very organic.

As for the Bo stuff I 100% agree. I am stumped I wonder if the handprint is what is making her darker than usual? Also the Una mens in that end scene, they never seem to punish her for anything. Is that cause of her father? If so does he superceed the blood king's rules?
398. Stacymd2
I'm so glad it was good. I can handle more questions and even Bo changing as long as Dyson isn't being thrown under the bus.

I can't wait until tomorrow to see 406!
Heather Waters
399. HeatherWaters
@nypinta -- Sorry for the delay in your comments! We're still refining the spam solution, so it's blocking lots of spam but blocking some real comments too; in that case I am publishing them manually as soon as I can. Will investigate further in the office tomorrow. Apologies for the inconvenience; we'll get this fixed ASAP.
HG Prime
401. nypinta
OK. That was a pretty damn awesome episode. Looked good, dialog was snappy and not overly punny, the B story was still important to the A story, Kenzi and Hale, Bo and Dyson, Lauren and Star Trek! I can't find fault. OK. Kenzi's "we all do" at the end of "She misses you" was not so much her, but whatev. Lauren's got a plan and it better be epic. Hale better not be the one that the funeral is for later. Dyson and Bo talking to each other. Bo is a bit angry. And still acting a touch off. But I think her being "marked" is why.
403. TheUberFan
Okay so I'm spitballing here.


If Evony is Massimo's mother, then she need valkyrie hair for some problem. What if she wanted Lauren to help fix something that's wrong with her? And rather than threaten, she's trying a different tactic.

One thing is for sure...never take Evony at face value.

I don't know when Lauren put on fake lips though since she didn't know the Morrigan was going to show up at her place. But why did she take it? So she could run tests or something? Future insurance?

Bo is burning up the sheets with Dyson...but it's just sex. She's angry and is using him as an emotional crutch, or so that's how it seems to me.

I am glad though that she's recognizing that she is not quite the same Bo she was before and that she knows she was awake and remembers the train. I want to know what that glowing hand print means.

And she knows she willingly aligned with the dark, which is freaking her out too.

I'm sad we didn't see Tamsin...I doubt we will next week either given the context of the episode...but I'm glad Kenzi has really bonded with the younger valkyrie and, given the note she left, I'm thinking she's going to find herself and remember. So yay.

I'm worried about Hale. Now that he's found happiness...and now that I've rekindled my Kenzi/Hale ship thanks to this episode, of course there's something wrong with him. Is he in trouble?

The Una Mens went to Bo's to get...Dyson. Not Bo. That raises a lot of questions.
HG Prime
404. nypinta
I think after the Morrigan showed up Lauren had time to slip something on her lips to get DNA. I think she was just taking advantage of an opportunity. Reverse spy bang...ish.

I don't think Bo is just using Dyson. She wanted to at the end, but he wouldn't let her. How she was with him that last time was different then the others and even he knew it was because Bo is still dealing with things.

I theorized somewhere else that the Una Mens might actually be after Dyson for the death of Taft. Technically he was fae at the time he died so... he could have technically broke fae law when he killed him. Because if it's another "set up" I'll be annoyed.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
405. Kiersten
I don't think Bo's burning up with Dyson is just about sex. She made several tender, affectionate moves toward him in this episode and not just when they were getting the sexy on. In the cask room, she cant stop touching him even while Trick is taking them to task to the point that Dyson just stares at her because it's been so long since she's been so free with him. Then in the bedroom when she goes too far, he doesnt stop her, she stops herself. If she was only using him, it wouldn't matter how she did it. And he trusts her so implicitedly that he just waits her out. Then they talk, really talk, soul-bearing, inner turmoil, all the ugly you dont let just anyone see talk. Bo shares things with him and shows him intimate parts of herself that she shows no one else, not even Kenzi. They are equals on every level. Partners. That was never more evident than in that Hilton Hovel scene. He doesn't push her or deny what she's feeling, he listens to her and supports her. He gives her what she needs and she in turn finally sees the growth he's been working through since he got his love back. It was a gorgeous scene, emotional and important. Dark or not, neither of them is going to let her status keep them apart; even Trick knows better than to attempt the "you can't be together anymore" gambit but rather goes directly to "you're going to have to be more careful."

Her increased fatalistic acceptance of her Dark allegience however is beginning to concern me. I don't think she's going to stop fighting to be unaligned again, but she's definitely beginning to realize she was asleep the whole month and there are things she did that she doesn't remember that are coming to call in a major way.

I did really like this episode though, including all of Doctor Lauren's scenes and not (just) because she wasn't with Bo (though Hallelujah!). She actually had a personality! She was *interesting* and, from her fifrst moment onscreen, genuinely happy. This Bo-free Doctor Lauren hell of a carefree and happy Doctor Lauren. Carry on!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
406. Kiersten
Bo to Dyson. "Hmm, I love this side of you." Nope. Not just using him for sex.
407. TheUberFan
I wish I could agree with you, @Kiersten. I actually liked Dyson with Bo originally. But Bo seems to want him there because she's not allowed to have him and thus wants him more. I also see her using him as an emotional crutch and a way to vent her anger and frustration. Dyson even called her on her anger, and rightly so because she wasn't looking at him, she was banging him and all her troubles away.

I mean, was she or was she not the same woman who went from angrybanging him in the gym to wanting to rekindle things with Lauren to banging him at the Dal? I see no moment of self discovery or loving moments. I see someone who's reacting and frustrated and latching on to a hot wolf man.

She's bouncing back and forth like a ping pong ball. In other words, our succubus is stuckubus.

I am glad that they talked afterward at the club house and she confessed that she's off and that she recognizes it because I was beginning to get worried that she was blissfully unaware of various dark threads of behavior she's been exhibiting lately.

That she sees she's not who she was or should be is a good sign and hopefully the memories will return at a quicker pace and our Bo will find a way to make herself whole again.

I don't know that she's fatalistically accepting that she's dark, but I do think she is realizing that, for whatever reason, she went dark willingly. That is certainly to come up in the future.

And I totally ship Morrigan/Lauren now. What's our ship name? Docigan? Moritor? MoLo? LOL!
408. Stacymd2
The crack ship name for Evony and Lauren is "Levony". I am on pins and needles to see 406. Doccubus (so far) loved this epi. Lauren is supposedly "happy" & "badass" in this epi. So I got scared again. It's good to know that you guys liked it too.
Carmen Pinzon
409. bungluna
I'm with the confused faction. Going by past patern, we know that Hale and Kenzie are going to be together for three seconds and then torn appart. Also, what's with the "...someone from Hale's past is going to hurt Kenzie..."?

Dyson and Bo are not quite there yet. At least she acknowledged that there was something off with 'them'.

Bo and Kenzie talking against each other in the opening also irked me a bit. It's like they don't listen to each other any more!
410. TheUberFan
Bo to Dyson. "Hmm, I love this side of you." Nope. Not just using him for sex.
Where was this? I missed that moment. What was the context?
411. TheUberFan
@bungluna... The conversation with Bo and Kenzi actually made me laugh. They're so comfortable with each other that they have conversations where each is bitching about something bothering them and then they laugh it. I thought it was fun. :)
412. TheUberFan
@Stacymd2... I actually really enjoyed it. We moved the ball on the Wanderer/Rainer. Bo says allowed that it's possible he is her that the first time she's acknowledged this?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
413. Kiersten
I agree Bo pingponged in these first episodes, no question and it only served to make her look bitchy and fickle. I still maintain that was more the writers doing "OK, here's Bo and Dyson's episode and here's Bo and Doctor Lauren's episode" as though the two existed in alternate time streams or something. But if we're sticking to it being story generated, then it aligns with Bo's continued delusions and illusions about DL and her relationship with DL in the first place. But now she's been rudely awaken that they are for sure this time broken up, Bo is free to indulge her feelings for Dyson without tripping over DL's pesky "No Dyson" rule. Free game.

I also agree that Bo is without question at first trying to bang her troubles away in Hilton Hovel, which is why she refuses to look at him because then he becomes Dyson and not just some body and she has to face what she's doing and why. And he sees it and calls her on it and she snaps and it's enough for her to realize she can't do this to him. This is what couples do; sometimes they take their bad shit out on each other because the trust is so deep, they know they can and that has always been there between them. And then Bo and Dyson talk and they work that shit out even if there's no definitive answer just yet. Like adults in a relationship, whatever that may be, who are in this mess together and that makes all the difference in the scene and between them.

I'm not saying Bo isn't seriously messed up. I think EA nailed it when she called it Bo's PTSD. She's working through some serious shit and she's behaving more and more obnoxiously in the meantime, like the way she snapped at Trick to get out of the cask room. But while her behavior toward Dyson is less that 100% stellar by far, it's clearly not only about sex for her where he is concerned, from the the constant random touches and clasping hands, to how she watches him, to the "I love this side of you" at The Dal to the tender stroke of his cheeck in the bedroom, which tracks because it never has been.

Totally with you shipping Evony and Doctor Lauren now. I saw someone called it Laurennigan but I'm actually fond of LoMo though for the life of me, I dont know how anyone gets "Lo" from "Lauren" but whatever.
414. TheUberFan
Help a geek out, @Kiersten. When did she say "I love this side of you?" Because I missed the context on that one.

As for Bo and Dyson...I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. I don't see a relationship. I see two people who have love for each other...and Dyson is willing to do or be whatever Bo needs...and Bo trusts him like few others... but I see a succubus who is not emotionally engaged with anything outside of her issues now. I don't see a couple. I see someone who's frustrated and angry. Look at how she acted in the Dal. They have a problem and Bo says she has an answer, and it's what...banging. She hasn't resolved anything about anything. She's just reacting.

But like I said above, I am glad that she's finally recognizing she's not who she should be....but I don't see any reason to characterize them as a couple given both her state of mind and her ease at hopping beds and hearts on a whim right now.

And I don't know where they're going with the Morrigan and Lauren..but I dig it. She's actually interesting and fun here. And the Morrigan...she loves to what's her game? She seems dangerously close to attempting sincerity. And that makes me nervous. ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
417. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic She says it after Dyson goes on about how Markus used Trick's super duper Fae transmitter. She teases him about whether he's any good with car maintenance and he teases back that he's changed her spark plugs. It's a rare glimpse of the playful side of Dyson that she brings out of him. Bo smiles and murmurs "I love this side of you." That triggers her to realize that Iancha and Markus are actually in love.
419. TheUberFan
Oh righto! Thank you. Yeah that was a nice moment between them.

I also liked how we learned more about Dyson's backstory. The SAS? Hmm. :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
420. Kiersten
Like I said, I agree that Bo isn't emotionally in a good place right now and that she frequently is using sex to avoid dealing with her problems, like jumping Doctor Lauren the moment they're alone rather than discussing the shit that went down the last two times they saw one another. But I don't believe Bo's only using Dyson for that sex. There's much too much between them and much of that was on display tonight. "Couple" perhaps was the wrong word to use; I don't mean to imply that they're "official" or going steady or anything. They're obviously back as a unit, both as Fae and in a personal sense, but there's been no "hey, we're back together" moment. I fully expect Bo to continue to bed hop without reservation and frankly I think Dyson expects her to do the same. Right now, Dyson is just trying to be there for Bo in whatever she needs as she works through this, but he also isn't going to be some faceless shag to her not only for his own sake but mostly because that's not what's going to help Bo most, which she realizes and stops herself when he calls her on it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
422. Kiersten
I listened to it a couple of times, and it's SIS, which tracks given the Canadian aspect of the show, but YES. Loved that throw away comment of his and, by the look on her face when he said it, so did Bo. I mean, what he wasn't enough of a hot bad ass already? Now, he's a *spy*?! Oy.
Susan White
423. whiskeywhite
I wasn't as impressed with the episode as others. I found much of it boring, although there were certainly good bits. First the bad. Opera singer and her two would-be owners -- BORING. The opera singer is only useful for what we, and Bo, learn about her time on the train (although she can sing, got to give her that. And speak Russian). One of the rival guys is dressed like an Indian maharajah, minus a turban, for no apparent reason. The other -- finally another Black actor in a significant role, only he can't act his way out of a paper bag. If the script hadn't told me "they're in love" I wouldn't have got it.

Now the better bits. Lauren and Evony -- very interesting and entertaining. Evony casually dressed, bringing "zah" and beer ("Dark Belch"? really? Are the 14-year-old boys writing again?). Lauren is fun to be with, as others have commented. In the last episode, I thought it was clear that Lauren had definitively gone with the Dark, but in this episode she's still negotiating -- "If I agree to work with the Dark fae...". Good that she says openly that she doesn't, and won't, trust Evony (and Evony respects her for it). Ilike 'Levony'. Pretty.

Hale and Kenzi finally get together. Yay! But after we've waited for so long, all we get is "Russian stink eye" and a kiss from Kenzi? No declarations of love? I guess the point is that Kenzi takes action and gives him a way out of having to say he loves her. It was nice to see them settle in comfortably together. But Hale bleeding -- this had better not be the start of something tragic. Can they please have some happy time together?

@UberFaenatic, Dyson also handily constructed a receivor. But when I heard "my time in the SAS", I thought, "Really? Was that in the Congo or the Amazon?"
Susan White
424. whiskeywhite
Kiersten, I thought I heard SIS too but was taking Uber's word for SAS. However, our Canadian spy outfit is CSIS, pronounced see-sis. SIS, the Secret Intelligence Service, is the British spy agency better known from 007 movies as MI-6. We remember that Dyson did refer to his being in England in "School's Out," but he told us he was "doing Jane Austen." :-)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
425. Kiersten
Additions to Dyson's back story can in no way be compared to the absurd amount of things accredited to Doctor Lauren's personal history. Dyson has a thousand years to account for most of which he spent as a supernatural warrior in one guise or another. It makes sense that, given this warrior lineage, he could at some point have been in the spy business and it's in no way as outlandish as the accomplishments ladened onto DL's all too few years. We know Dyson has a rich and as yet barely touched on history. In Faetal Justice, Trick lists only a few of things he knows about Dyson's past to Bo and reveals Dyson has only been in the area for the last 50 years. As usual, there is simply no comparison to be made here between Dyson and Doctor Lauren.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
426. Kiersten
I'm happier with it being the Brit SIS anyway so works for me.
Susan White
427. whiskeywhite
Now for Bo and Dyson. Like @UberFaenatic, I'm afraid I don't fully buy the rosy picture you're painting, Kiersten, much as I would deeply like to. Yes they talk, but also yes, she is more violent. She isn't using him to power up, but she is using him for raw sex. I see no tenderness there whatsoever. That face touching in the keg room was, "I want to continue having sex." There's more crotch clutching, and now we have some rough bondage, which he says he'll "learn to like." (I'm not at all opposed to bondage as sex play, but only as mutually agreed. I guess we're supposed to take his reponse as post facto agreement).

Things get even rougher in the bedroom. I recognize that they're both physically quite strong and they said to each other the first time they made love, "I never said I would be gentle." I was about to write that there's a lack of connection, but I think your analysis, Kiersten, is quite perceptive that she's taking her anger and fear out on him. I found it sad and painful when he begs her twice to look him in the face and she avoids it, preferring to relate to it as him giving her an order.

They do talk -- she confides in him that she's Dark and later that she signed on willingly. In the bedroom he recognizes her anger and fear and she confesses those fears. Good stuff. As Kiersten says, not something she can discuss with Kenzi or anyone else.

But is she considering him at all? He raises the concern about them as Dark and Light being together; she just ignores his concerns and drags him into the keg room for sex. One is tempted to cheer for Bo the rule breaker, except that he's right that with the Una Mens around there could be dire outcomes. She can buck the UMs if she likes, that's her "risk to take" as Dyson said of himself and the Norn. But she didn't pause for even a second to consider the consequences he could face. With the resumed sex in the bedroom, we see that he's willing to take the risk of breaking the rules. Interesting that he says that 'Dark' and 'Light' are just "labels" and she responds that he's changed too.

Nitpick -- I found the scene in front of the mirror a bit odd. First she suddenly collapses to the ground and he shows no particular concern -- totally unlike him. Then she shows the mark on her body and again he shows no great concern, he just continues to stare into the mirror. I realize all that staring is for effect at the end, but still odd.
428. TheUberFan
The difference is that Dyson has lived for like 1500 years. So I imagine he has 500 things from his backstory and all of them would make sense because he's lived long enough to experience them.

And I apologize for mis hearing that! SIS then? I'll have to look into that.

Something else I loved. Hale was attracted to the singer at some point and still harbored a bit of a torch for her. A RUSSIAN woman. So perhaps this is one of the things that drew our Siren to Kenzi in the first place?
429. TheUberFan
During her "conversation" with Kenzi at the beginning, Bo muses, how do you know yourself without your memory? And then she says something about "boom boom". And I have no idea what she said or if I heard it right. Did anyone catch that bit?
431. TheUberFan
Okay geek confession. I've had all kinds of problems with how the show has written Lauren but...seeing Zoie as Lauren talk about her Star Trek DVD collection? I didn't hear her mention DS9 though (which was really good once they brought Worf on board and started the Dominion arc). ;)

Makes up for a multitude of sins. lol And Zoie really sells that moment...sheepishly telling the leader of the dark fae about her prized Star Trek convention collectibles. Haha!
433. TheUberFan
Also... Bo's memory from the train while the singer is at the Dal performing. Silver platter...a crown of some sort with her name engraved on it. And she wasn't pleased to see it.
Carmen Pinzon
434. bungluna
I like Lauren best when she geeks out too.

And as for the Una Mens, now I'm wonderign why they came for Dyson. It can't be the fraternization, since that would make Bo equaly guilty. What other crime could they be holding over him?
435. TheUberFan's amazing how two people can see the same scene and walk away with different impressions.
Nitpick -- I found the scene in front of the mirror a bit odd. First she suddenly collapses to the ground and he shows no particular concern -- totally unlike him. Then she shows the mark on her body and again he shows no great concern, he just continues to stare into the mirror. I realize all that staring is for effect at the end, but still odd.
I saw just the opposite. Bo cried out and dropped to the floor and Dyson was right there with her, cradling her shoulder and from my vantage point, looked quite concerned by not only the glowing hand print but also by what Bo was telling him.
438. nypinta
If Dyson was just letting Bo use him for sex he wouldn't have been bothered by her not looking at him.

I wonder if he can even see the hand mark?
Suzanne Metaxas
440. SuzyM
I finally watched the episode again. I think that we are going to find out that Lauren was brought back by Trick and that he told her to make amends with the Light she would have to spy on the Morrigan for some reason. Maybe the Morrigan is the elder with the disease. Just a thought I had :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
441. Kiersten
@SuzyM I had that exact thought. That was Trick's voice on the speaker's when Crystal and DL were being held captive and we never were told or shown Evony was the one who held them, everyone just assumed when DL showed up at the Dark party that it'd been the Dark who held her in the first place and Trick's voice was a red herring. But now I think Trick *did* have the women and now DL is working for him "undercover" as some sort of deal to get her slate wiped clean again. That's how they'll walk her back from her Dark committment, which would erode all the progress they've made with DL's character in just two episodes and thus any lingering trust I might have for the writers.

Funny though how, as in Taft's lab, the reasons are she gives to Bo both to why they cant make it work together and to how much better the Dark Fae works for DL than the Light are real and true. And she certainly seems more unfettered, happy, and free dancing in her apartment than she ever has in this entire series. So perhaps she is "undercover" and maybe she'll learn that she's really found where she belongs and does a double-cross on Trick or whomever has sent her there.

FTR None of what I said paints a rosy picture of Bo and Dyson's current status. I've repeatedly said that Bo is in a damaged emotional place and that she has tried to use sex first with Dyson and then with Doctor Lauren and then again with Dyson to avoid dealing with the issue in front of her. My point is that even in the misery in which she's currently wallowing, the bond she shares with Dyson that has lasted through all the shit that's been thrown at them in the last three seasons makes even these interactions resonate with more than just "boom boom" which is glaringly evident in the last scene of this particularly episode.

I agree, @UberFaenatic, that Dyson was very concerned with Bo's physical state when they were kneeling in front of the mirror. And anyone who cant see the tenderness and care between them outside of the sexy times is being wiillfully blind.
442. islandgrl
Been lurking a while, but I'm really surprised folks are not upset by the last few episodes.

Imagine a man and a woman are dating, and they fall in love with each other. Over time, for whatever reason, the two of them break up. They start to move on from one another. A year or so later, the man starts to date another woman, and it is obvious he is REALLY in to her. His original girlfriend realizes just how much she loves that man – and she loves him deeply. So she watches him love this other woman, and sits to the sideline and pines.

Then one day, the man’s girlfriend breaks up with him. This is a perfect opportunity for his original woman to show him how much he loves her – but the problem is the man is still in love with the other woman. Now, there is something about this man – he is a bit of a man slut and tends to have sex to help assuage emotional wounds – it is a huge outlet for him. If he feels disempowered, he takes power by having sex. So his original girlfriend, who loves him, lets herself be used for sex, hoping to help this man and establish some sort of emotional connection. The man still goes on about his ex and focuses on her, however (to the point where Bo forgot to call Dyson and let him know she found Lauren), and is still in love with her. So the original girlfriend keeps letting herself be used for sex – even letting herself be used for rough play. Eventually during another rough sex session, she BEGS the man for some sort of connection, begging him to look at her in the eyes, and he refuses, going so far as to establish his dominance and yell at her for doing so. He apologizes, and is horrified by his violent action, and she responds by immediately consoling him.

This story is exactly what we would see if Bo and Dyson’s genders are reversed. It’s not a romantic tale or a tale of empowerment. It’s one that paints Bo as a user and Dyson as someone who may need serious therapy – because if we saw this in real life, even with the conversation at the end, we would tell female!Dyson to get the hell out of the situation s!he is in. Yes, Dyson loves Bo, but Bo did not treat Dyson well. Seeing him let her treat him that way made me cringe for his character. And seeing her treat him that way left me nauseous – there is nothing romantic about the way she is treating him.
443. nypinta
(I'm still having issues getting my comments through, btw.)

I think Dyson and Bo, although they might not be a "couple" because I think if Dyson were to push to define their relationship now would make him a jerk, but the are partners. I don't think they have an exclusivity caveat, but Bo hasn't looked at anyone else except Lauren since she's been back. And not even Dyson would fault her for that.

I'm not sure if it was Trick. Because she tells Bo the Dark "came for her" which is pretty specific wording. Although I have no problem if she and Trick are working together. They have before, when Bo was acting odd and he tasked Lauren with keeping an eye on Bo and reporting back to him. (Which, huh, I guess you could also call 'spybanging'... I mean, I keep seeing online people trying to redefine Dyson and Bo in S1 as him spybanging her so if they can do that, I'm calling Lauren out too.) But she clearly has a plan, so even if she isn't working with the Light, if she pulls off something against the Dark the Light would probably forgive her any transgressions. Especially if Trick stays Ash. But by the end of the seaons I fully expect everyone to be back where they were. Bo will be unalligned, Lauren will still be working for the fae, Trick will give up power again... maybe.

But Hale's a goner. Sorry. I know this. I'm a Joss Whedon fan. It's coming. Be ready.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
444. Kiersten
@nypita - I'm afraid I'm with you there; I think Hale's a goner too, which I would *hate* but I do think it's coming. And people can redefine S1 in their own minds all they want to make themselves feel better about DL owning up to her spybanging history, it will never make that claim true.

You're right about DL telling Bo the Dark "came for her". I'd forgotten about that. But I'm reserving judgement at this point about DL's end game with the Dark and who may or may not be in on it. I do like how empowered she is to have a plan of her own and I wonder how much of it is her manipulating Evony so as to get power over the Fae in general, given how sick she is of being dicked around by them. Interesting that Evony's dictum of humans being terrorists seems to have slipped her mind, seems to have slipped everyone's mind come to think about it. Guess that's just gonna be one of the those things ignored when it becomes inconvenient to the desired plot shenanigans
445. nypina
Well, let's do that for S3 as well. Say you're a guy and have a girlfriend that died traumatically. So her rebound with another girl that you know has feelings for you. But you don't like her basic nature so using your brains you give her medication so that you'll be enough to sustain her. Then you start to isolate her from her friends. Despite knowing she needs more to live, you take away her one option that is also a trusted friend. You snip about her best friend and dominate her time. You go behind her back when she isn't acting right and convince her friends that she's ill and only you can help her. Then when she starts to regain some independence you break things off and leave town without saying goodbye. That's not very romantic either. That's actually pretty shitty.
446. nypinta
I give that above example not because that's how I see Bo and Lauren's relationship in S3 but to point out that when you strip away everything and use only the bare bones of any relationship on this show they're all going to suck in some major way. But no one is thinking of Bo as "empowered" because she's with Dyson the way that she is. The chick is messed up. And he knows that. She just went through some pretty traumatic stuff. If she were acting normal and unaffected I think we'd have much more to worry about and he knows that and I don't think he would come across any better if he cut her off from anything just for a little self pride, not when it comes at the cost of abandoning her, which she's had enough of really.
447. FireMermaid
I thought Dyson said SAS, which makes sense as it is the British version of Seal Teams Unlike the SIS which is more like the CIA
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