Dec 2 2013 12:52pm

Lost Girl Season 4, Episode 4 Discussion: And It Stoned Me

Bo and Kenzi in Lost Girl 4x04, Turn to StoneLast night's Lost Girl had some surprises—what were your favorite parts? Were you happy to see Tamsin's return? How about all the stuff going on with Bo? Here's the brief blurb of Lost Girl's episode 4x04, “Turn to Stone”:

When the Clubhouse is robbed, Kenzi's forced to make a confession that could threaten her friendship with Bo. Meanwhile, an angry and frustrated Bo does the unthinkable - she confronts a dangerous foe and makes a shocking discovery.

Note: This is an episode discussion post, so there will be MAJOR SPOILERS for the episode, natch.

Want more Lost Girl? Our weekly recaps will be back in 2014 when Lost Girlbegins airing on SyFy in the U.S.!

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1. Darthfaeder
Wow I get to be first that is cool. Well I have only been able to watch the Tamsin scenes cuz the place I usually watch the whole episode hasn't posted it yet. Fortunetly for me someone in the Rachel Skarsten L-chat thread posted the Tamsin scene but nothing else hmmm story of my life. Anyways yes!!!!!!!! Tam Tam is back but she doesn't have all her memories back. Bo doesn't seem all that convinced and suspects that Tamsin isn't spilling all the beans, but it does seem like Tamsin really doesn't remember alot from her previous lifecycle and well that is a shame but I am hoping that in time she'll regain her memory back. Bo seems to have been able to retrieve all her memories about Tamsin even the fight they had in Tafts lab. Looks like ol Tammers has to work on getting Bo to trust her again seems? Those wings were awesome and I understand that we will see her use them again sometime in a future episode. I think I read that those awesome wings will reappear in episode 13. I thought it was sweet when Kenzi panicked when she realized that Tamsin was home during the robbery and rushed up to find Tamsin.
Susan White
2. whiskeywhite
New thread. To continue:

Dyson's "Bo has a girlfriend" is back . Sigh. When Tamsin asks, "Is Bo your girlfriend?" he answeres sharply, "No." In response to whether he wants Bo to be his girlfriend, he says,
I did. But then a lady in a tree took my love and by the time I got it back, Bo had a girlfriend. ... We never found the right time. The end.
The end? So, what, he now accepts that they're just 'bang buddies'? He's just for recreation and powering up?

Then Tamsin asks, "What does love feel like?", and he answers, in THAT voice, "When you feel it, you'll know it. And when it's gone, you'll never want to lose it again." I know he's referring to losing his love to the Norn, but is he also saying he's lost Bo's love of him?

BTW, KHR seems to have also gotten his acting skills back in this ep. He's at his best delivering "I love you" type lines in a quiet voice. No wonder he gets so many lover parts in movies and TV.

While I'm on the subject of kissing and love, so happy to see Kenzi admit she loves Hale: "I think I, like, love him. Maybe. I don't even know." I've been complaining that she seemed so clear about that at the end of season 3, and he as well, and then it's back to "not sure" in season 4. We can only hope that Hale and Kenzi have the conversation that he asked for at the end of ep. 4.01 (if we haven't already used up our quota of adult conversations for the season).

I loved it when Lauren the scientist came back. Not just that she got her geek on but the confident stand-up-for-herself scientist who demands respect for her skills and knowledge. That's always been my favourite aspect of her personality. I guess it's because I started in academia in the mid-70s when women were still being treated very badly. And the scientific world is even more male dominated than general academia, even now despite many advances made by women. So I love her demanding her props (as she did when Trick informed her that "her kind" were not meant to know about the Dawning and she got an immediate apology from him by retorting sharply that she had better know about it if they wanted her help).
3. Anina
I loved this episode. It felt like coming home after spending time in a hurricane of WTFery.

Here's why:
- the opening scene. No comment needed, right? (Yes, I'm team Dyson all the way)

- Kenzi opening up to Bo about how she's sick of feeling helpless and powerless and alone. Bo really had this coming after her BS "you have me to protect you ... yada yada" and Kenzi's "you left me". And yes, I'm aware that Bo did not leave voluntarily, but was abducted. It reminded me of S2, where Bo is somewhat passive-agrressive about Dyson not loving her any more. It wasn't his fault either, but it still was a fact. Same thing is happening now with Kenzi. Bo did not plan on leaving her unprotected, but still did.

- Lauren takes a stand. I like Lauren, when she's not whiny.

- Tamsin in that absolutely great "go shopping" scene.

- that absolutely great "go shopping" scene. Can Dyson please max out my credit cards? Twice or more.

- the "inner sanctum" scene. What is it that Dyson wants to teach Kenzi??

- the focus on the main characters, the absence of secondary characters like Trick and Hale. I wouldn't have minded some Trick in the episode, but I didn't miss Hale one bit. I like him as Dyson's sidekick, but nothing more. KCC and KS have a lot of chemistry, but not in a romantic way, imo.

Based on previous experience, I fear we will not get
Nusi Dekker
4. NusiD
@whiskeywhite "While I'm on the subject of kissing and love, so happy to see Kenzi admit she loves Hale: "I think I, like, love him. Maybe. I don't even know."

Well, shoot, I thought she was talking about Dyson!! I'll have to re-watch the episode.
5. Anina
Oops, that last sentence "Based on previous ..." was not intended to be here. Just forget about it.
Susan White
6. whiskeywhite
@Darthfaeder, I'm glad adult Tamsin is back too, though what's with her still being a teenager with all the teen angst about "I'm hideous"? And Dyson telling her a fairytale bedtime story like a child (no matter how sweet that was)? Why still so childlike? Haven't we already been through two (or three?) child Tamsins?

I'm looking forward to hearing what others think of her "That's what love feels like" response to Bo hugging her. Who loves whom? She loves Bo? That's what Dyson's "You'll know it when you feel it" speech suggests.

And, yes, Kenzi's mommy-like caring about Tamsin was sweet (and predicted by you all) as well as the comfortable relationship between them. Will Tamsin reciprocate the caring in the future?

While I'm on the subject of Tamsin, we (and Dyson) learned about Tamsin's lunchtime escapades with a guy with an 'eight pack' in season 3. But now we learn she was "banging hydras" (remember them? Was it nine 'heads'? Hee) Which reminds me, someone commented quite some time ago that we "know" that Tamsin is bisexual. What evidence do we have of that other than her blossoming love of Bo? Were there any women before Bo? Is Bo special? I have absolutely nothing against Tamsin being attracted to women, just asking whether there's evidence. It sure sets us up for Bo-Tamsin in the future which I'm totally up for.
7. TheUberFan
Massimo jumped in the lava pit...but someone reminded us in the last thread that he has the Twig of Zamora. So if he had it on him, he's alive. That said, he's clearly cracked because the hair looked like it went up in smoke as soon as it hit the lava and well, he clearly has mommy issues.

Still wondering if it's Evony.
C. H.
8. SmurfFae
What a rush! Another great episode! So much answers and backstory that
we've waited for. Kenzie & Bo adventuring together again and sorting
their shit out. More Bo and Dyson sexytime. Great to see Rachel
Skarsten back and I also like the new Tamsin in her role as the baby-fae
and her relations to the rest of the gang. Kenzie being worried about
her and Dyson telling her that story...too cute. And the wings of
course, Angel of Death FTW!

I have to agree with the posters who guessed something's wrong with Bo. I guess some Wanderer-related juju / blood infusion.
Bo's probably not gonna role over and accept that ruling (being dark). But it
explaines that scene from the season-preview where Kenzie & Bo enter
Evony's office, Kenzie carrying a coffee. I guess Bo is going to work
for the Morrigan ;)
And I guess a lot of people are going to be happy to have a DarkBo.

@NursiD: Good work remembering Massimo had the twig. I guess he'll be back.

@UberFanatic: Definitely Evony. Which explains the issues.
9. TheUberFan
Random thought. What if when Tamsin died, she was on the train as a damned soul who was somehow released when Bo regained awareness?
10. drusilla_doll
Such interesting discussion guys, I'm still searching for a download, so can't contribute much yet. But I love how the episode has given us lots of juicy things to discuss and speculate over. :D
Susan White
11. whiskeywhite
Yes! @Anina: "It felt like coming home after spending time in a hurricane of WTFery." Excellently put. And, yes, what is Dyson going to teach Kenzi? Good analysis of "Bo did not plan on leaving her unprotected, but still did." Is this the first time you've posted? If so, welcome and good stuff! If not, I'm so sorry. So glad to have a Team Dyson compatriot (I'm being obstinant about 'Team Badass').

The shopping scene was cute. But odd that Dyson would choose that euphemism in front of a teenage girl. The guy really doesn't understand young women (or read romance novels. Quelle surprise. Sorry H&H).

@NusiD, Kenzi does name Hale out loud as the one she loves.

@UberFaenatic. I took Massimo to be a former lover of Evony. But now I'm beginning to wonder. He had better be still alive because of the Twig of Zamora or have left it behind where Kenzi can find it and give it back to Hale. That really would be a betrayal for her to have pawned his important 'passed from father to son' family heirloom. Loved Massimo's remark about their end tables (or was it side tables, I forget).

Must work! Must tear my eyes away from this site.
12. TheUberFan
@drusilla_doll ... I sent you a message. Please check your inbox! ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
13. Kiersten
OK - through some Twitter convos & deconstructing and another rewatch, I'm going on record with the following:

1. The blood Doctor Lauren examined and diagnosed as Mad Fae from feeding on their own family, in fact, she even said "incest", is Bo's blood. She's the Mad Fae, which is why she's a little off and instantly violent and speaks about killing a human without batting an eye, even one such as Massimo.

2. Either Bo got Mad Fae disease by feeding off her dad The Wanderer on the or by those few times she fed off Tamsin in season 3 because...

3. I'm now more convinced than ever that Tamsin and Bo are half sisters. Bo total vibe and attitude toward Tamsin in this episode was Big Sis and not just when "Little T" was acutally a teenager. She calls her that in Massimo's lair too when Tamsin is freaking out. Bo does full body glow with Tamsin, but she doesnt embrace her, merely leans her body against Tamsin's. I think it was a sharing of essence between bonded blood siblings. Also, I fear they're setting things up for Tamsin to die in the finale or perhaps be reclaimed by The Wanderer for good, though I think it'll be sacrificial death likely for Bo's sake.

4. Here's the big one - IT'S TRICK WHO HAS KIDNAPPED DOCTOR LAUREN. It is DEFINITELY his voice over the speaker. Which just has so many repercusions I can barely process them. Heads are going to ROLL when this comes out.

5. Both Bo and Kenzi refer to DL as Bo's "ex" so for Dyson to continue to parrot that Bo has a girlfriend has gone beyond ridiculous. He's known since the end of S3 that they broke up and I cannot see any reason beyond fanwanking for him to continue to be the mouthpiece for this. I want there to be a clear, no contest love confession from Bo to Dyson by the end of this season because this shit has gone on long enough. I loved that scene with Tamsin and how it acknowledge that Bo and Dyson just keep missing their time together, not that the love isn't there on bothe sides, but that their timing sucks. I think he's waiting for her to resolve the DL sitch one way or another and make a move then. I do like that Bo got a taste of what it feels like to have a love-restored Dyson locking lips with someone else, even if it was Kenzi and they were under a spell.

What also struck me - outside of the faetastic sexy boxing times - is how much Bo and Dyson continue to be the parents of the group, divvying up who takes care of whom and what's going on where. They really are partners in every way. Bo can only run off and confront the Una Mens b/c Dyson's picked up the kids and made sure they're safe at Hilton Hovel until she gets there. This doesn't infringe on Kenzi's or Tamsin's or Bo's capabilities, merely gives them a bulwark to lean against when it all gets to be too much as Kenzi and young-at-heart-Tamsin did in this episode. Question is: who does Dyson get to lean on? Also, what the HELL is the deal with the necklace?! Way to shove a Zales advert into the middle of the episode there. I swear, if they shove Bo and Doctor Lauren back together after all she's done and all the crap we had to endure in S3, more than heads will roll.

6. I thought Tamsin's wings were amazing and I loved the theme of being a monster and how Tamsin's teenage angst that in a human would be about boys or being pretty or getting on the team or whatever for the Valkyrie is about whether being Dark, a choice this edition of Tamsin didn't get to make for herself, automatically means you're a monster. Interesting too considering now Bo will have to deal with being labeled Dark for the immediate future too. The idea that this Tamsin didn't choose Dark implies that the last Tamsin didnt get to make the choice either, which goes a long way to explaining her conflict of character, having to obey the Dark elders but being so drawn to go against their orders and the tangible desire to instead join the Happy Sunshine Gang.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
14. Kiersten
@Anima - Welcome! So glad you're adding your voice to the conversation!
15. Anina
Thank you for the welcome and the kind words. I do think it's my first post, but I have been following the discussions for quite some time, at least partly.

Dyson's initial approach in the shopping scene was indeed a bit more direct, and it's Bo who starts using euphemisms. Speaking of which: "You can go in all the stores ..." That's a VERY imaginative euphemism!
16. TheUberFan
@Kiersten...I agree with many of the points you make but I'm not on board with the sibling theory for a few reasons.

1. It would be utterly icky for them to go there after the set up last season. Besides, I doubt Anna would have said the ship was legitimate if it were sibling-ish. lol
2. That may or may not be Bo's blood...and if it is, how it got to Lauren would be a mystery, as to Bo's disgestive content.
3. Bo treated Tamsin like a child, because she is one right now. So of course her vibe is very much the protector. Her tone was similar when Dyson was on the wolf reliving his childhood memories except here, Tamsin really is a baby. In fact she said to Massimo after Tamsin left that she wouldn't send a child in to do her dirty work, or some such thing.
4. Bo didn't feed on Tamsin nearly enough times to cause any kind of issue. Once when searching for Kenzi in The Kenzi Scale...and once in Those Who Wander. So if it is Bo's blood, she got it from Daddy who did whatever to her while she was out of her mind.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
17. Kiersten
@Uberfaenatic - I never took the S3 setup between Bo and Tamsin as sexual so it works for me, especially as Tamsin repeatedly showed disgust at the idea of having to kiss/feed Bo. The bathtub scene was painful and emotionally, but despite the lack of clothes and the chest touching, I always felt that was more about Tamsin's despair at being torn between her feelings for Bo and her loyalty to the Dark, a conflict that this last episode appears to support, than any sexual desire. There are many, many kinds of love beyond sexual and a complex, conflicted siblings who are strangers love would be much more interesting a 'ship than the standard sex is all one.
18. TheUberFan
@Kiersten... I guess we just interpreted their interactions in Season 3 differently.

Tamsin was set up to not like Bo and Bo was in a committed relationship so any situation the writers threw togther were by necessity forced. But it definitely showed, to me at least, chemistry. Starting with the kiss in Confaegion.

The bathtub scene to me was totally about despair, for having betrayed Bo, someone she saw as noble and honorable and I believe she started having feelings for. For having lost her friend, Acacia. For spiraling out of control and feeling helpless and hopeless. Rachel Skarsten when asked about that scene said that she played the scene as a love confession for Bo.

So I guess I just have to respectfully dissent on that one. :)
Nadine Robb
19. cmm
I'm still stuck on her blood thing. I'm wondering if the Wanderer declared for her or IF he did something to her so that when that thing bit her it would know she was on the dark side? Not that that will stop Bo. She does what she wants when she wants to.
20. drusilla_doll
@Kiersten: I LOVE the term 'Mad Fae disease'! It's a keeper. The only issue I have with it being Bo's blood being examined is that Lauren has already claimed last season she can recognise Bo's blood under a microscope in an instant. Has it morphed that much that DL couldn't tell?

Trick being the captor is so intriguing in a 'what the holy hell' kind of way. If it is Trick who pressured Crystal and kidnapped and imprisoned Lauren that's a whole lot of 'dark and disturbing' to account for. Dyson clearly doesn't know, though. Does that mean Trick sent the gargoyle to bite Bo, had DL analyze it and took the findings to the Una Mens? Is he willingly or unwillingly working with them?

Since there are rumours of a funeral happening in the latter half of the season, I am placing money on it being Trick who finally dies. It will be tragic and he will probably be telling Bo with his final breath that he's sorry he kept things from her, failed her and wasn't able to guide her the way he should have. It might even be a redeeming death. Just a hunch.

@Anina: Welcome to H&H! Glad to have another on Team Dyson and Team Badass.

@Uberfaenatic: Thank you, bless your heart. As for Tamsin/Bo being related - I really don't know. There are clues supporting it, but then other clues which would make it pretty questionable to go there. Maybe the writers were riding the fence themselves last season, in terms of deciding which way to go? To be honest, I really love their chemistry, regardless of what kind of relationship they end up having.

As for Doctor Lauren getting her groove back, I am pleased and not at all surprised. It was pretty much telegraphed that she would eventually snap and push-back at her circumstances. As someone upthread said, it was organically done and now, maybe, the more militant portion of Lauren fans will finally step back from the edge, relax, and enjoy the show.

Of course, it's pretty sadly in character that Lauren would make explosive pipe bombs for her brother and not really think about the potential catastrophic consequences until it was too late.

I do love that Dyson's very much a part of the family vibe. He belongs with Bo, Kenzi and now Tamsin. He certainly didn't boss the girls around and instead took on a more nurturing role this ep. Yep, all you Dyson nay-sayers, he CAN switch it up and be the stay-at-home-with-the-kids-guy too when the need calls for it. So much for him only being Macho Paternalistic Hero-wannabe Douche 24/7. ;)
Nadine Robb
21. cmm
@drusilla_doll Where did you hear a rumour about a funeral?
22. Anina
@Kiersten Thanks for the welcome!

The Mad Fae Disease is clearly Mad Cow Disease which is caused by actual intake of brain or nervous tissue of infected animals. I don't think this correlates with Bo's chi-sucking.
Even if it did, why would Bo not simply be cured after having her credit cards maxed out? :)

I also don't think that the voice was Trick's. The speech pattern and intonation aren't his (at least to my ears). I'll admit that English is not my first language, though. Also, if I'm right about the Mad Fae Disease, there would be no reason for Trick to act like this.

Also not sure about the half sister thing, but definitely sure that there is no sexual vibe between them. Tamsin feels Bo's love in that scene, but that love would never have a sexual component, as Bo sees Tamsin as a child. And yes, I too fear Tamsin will die in this season. Pity. But I have a feeling that she won't die before getting to make a "better decision". What do you think?

Bo and Dyson as parents? Yes, totally agree!

Dyson isn't telling Tamsin that Lauren is currently Bo's girlfriend, only that she was back when he got his love back. And as he and Bo are not officially together, she's not his girlfriend now. But I agree that it is very annoying and does not bode well for the upcoming episodes.

Oh well, I'll just enjoy the goodness while it lasts!

And one more thing: somebody mentioned that the Lauren/Crystal sex scene was much hotter than anything between Lauren/Bo. I totally agree with this. It's kind of strange, though. So far I had been thinking that I wasn't "getting it" because I'm not into girl/girl action. So why did this scene feel so different? Any thoughts, anybody?
23. nypinta
I think the mad fae disease will be a consequence of Taft's since he was making fae fight and feed upon fae. So if it is Trick, it was because he's worried about all of faedom... again. (But it'd be a seriously heavy handed way to get Lauren to diagnose something that she would have done if he just asked her too. And he knows that. So I still think it's Evony or another Dark.)

And I said in the previous episode discussion, I think Bo is possessed. From the train. That is why her blood registers as Dark.

And I'm still upset at her reaction to Kenzi's confessions. Did she not hear the other 3 or 4 things Kenzi said? Nope. Zeroes in on the Dyson bit and storms off RIGHT AFTER Kenzi just got done telling her she's tired of being left behind.
25. nypinta
Re: pipe bombs. Lauren knew her brother was going to use them, but I think they both intended on blowing up things where no one was, to destroy the property to "send a message" but either he decided to go rogue or they went off when they weren't supposed to and people got killed by accident. She skipped over where he was so I'm thinking he also died. Or so she thinks. (He might have gone into hiding too.) (Or he's Massimo. Who has the twig.... and didn't die... stuff... because I'll be bummed if that was really how he went out on the show, as a simpering mamma's boy.)
27. Anina
Re the Kenzi confessions? Hm, let's see:

- The twig of Zamora? Bo doesn't even know what that is. Couldn't care less.
- Stealing from Trick? Morally highly questionable, but hardly personal. Trick is able to look after his own stuff, after all.
- Locking lips with Dyson? DO NOT TREAD ON MY TURF!!!! Bo is very possessive of what she deems to be hers. Which certainly includes Dyson, especially after the boxing ring scene.

Plus: The premise of S4 is that the gang is going to learn that only standing together is the key to victory. So in order to start that learning curve, TPTB will rip them apart first by creating all kinds of conflict.
C. H.
28. SmurfFae
@Kiersten: I agree with drusilla_doll, that the samples are probably not from Bo, since DL claimed she new 'her grilfriends biochemistry'. And I have a hard time imagining the product of generations of incest as the 'heroic protagonist' of a prime-time tv-show. (Amongst other reasons, you'd had a hard time selling this to the tv officials.) I could imagine they are Evony's samples. At least that's the first fae that comes to mind when thinking of 'mad'. Massimo needed super-precious hair for his mommy, so maybe she's not feeling very well...

I also don't think she and Tamsin are sisters: In the season 3 finale the kitsune mentioned she had lately fallen in with a super-evil guy. She seemed to run simple assassination/kidnapping missions for him. If 'Lil T' really was his daughter she would be more like upper management in his (presumably) world domination schemes.

I didn't recognize the voice as Trick's, but he has a valid reason for throwing DL in a box: He was in 'Hail Hale' extremely proud, that his protegee had managed to become Ash. And then DL f*ed it all up with her silly human antics.
29. nypinta
What if Massimo's mother is the Norn?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
30. Kiersten
FTR I dont put any value in DL's assertion that she "knows her girlfriend's body chemistry" so well, she can immediately recognize Bo's blood cells at the microscopic level. She is human, after all. When she said that to Trick, she had just completed major tests on Bo in relation to The Dawning and had spent some time studying Bo's biochemistry in a high-tech lab. That doesnt mean she'll be able to identify a few unlabeled cells while in a cell with rudimentary equipment.

The gargoyles work for the Una Mens (and, as nypita pointed out, they likely used the blood from the gargoyle to determine she's Dark) so the captors didn't get Bo's blood (if it hers) that way, but I do agree that there's a hiccup as to where it came from. Even if it's Evony's blood, how would he have obtained that? And it is Trick's voice for sure. Whether that's a red herring remains to be seen, perhaps someone is masking there's with his, but it's his voice.

I liked the possession idea, but it would have to be something sharing her body because that is definitely Bo, just - pissier
31. TheUberFan
@nypinta... interesting theory. I threw the idea of Evony out there because of the scenes between Evony and Massimo. He wanted to come back and live with her.

I think the elder who's mad fae is Evony, but there are a lot of if's attached to that. If Massimo is her son, we see an inclination of hers to be less than maternal, shall we say. ;) And he seems desperate to please her, which would match the attitude of needing the hair for his mommy, although I don't know what power Valkyrie hair holds.

As for what's wrong with Bo...looking back to the previous episode, when she first awoke from being bashed in the head with a frying pan, was succu-hungry. And we hear a voice as her eyes go succu-blue. "Kill them. Kill them all. Kill them." Possible first signs that she was possessed or that Daddy did something to her?

32. nypinta
Re: possession... might not be a straight on possession. Maybe she absorbed some of the spirits that were on the train with her. Remember Lauren said something about Bo's psychic powers when the Night Mare was invading her dreams? Sort of like that. And since they are doing call backs to S1, I'm not ruling that out.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
33. Kiersten
The "Kill them, Kill them all" was the Jumby playing with Bo. The next time she hears it is when she's in the cell with Julia and she's not under the succuneed but dying from the transdimensional sickness.
34. nypinta
@UberFaenatic, yeah it's probably going to be Evony, but IIRC Druids have a thing with trees and so do Norns so... 1 + 1 = simmpering human man. And the Norn was wounded by Kenzi. So he'd have double the reason to help The Wanderer go after Bo.
35. nypinta
But the Jumby wasn't supposed to be able to get into the house and didn't possess anyone until Julia went past the sneakers on the line, which was one of the clues Bo used to figure out what fae it was. When Julia was describing the walking backwards and tying all the knots because the ghost couldn't get in until she untied them all and tried on all the shoes, that triggered a memory in Bo (from hopefully a book on fae she read) and she realized she made a mistake, which must mean those protections work and therefor the Jumby couldn't have been the one in Bo's head in the house before hand.
36. TheUberFan
Hmm. I don't know if it's the Jumby or not. She didn't have access to the house at that point, right? Not until she and Julia and she crossed the barrier.
37. TheUberFan would be fascinating if they went there...but would the Norn connect Kenzi with Bo, per se? I could see her using Massimo to go after Dyson and/or Kenzi, but she never showed interest in Bo as anything more than a means to manipulate the wolf and make him suffer.

I would like to see the Norn again though. Especially if Bo has a chance to put the hurt on her for destroying her life in season two and removing Dyson from her life.
C. H.
38. SmurfFae
@Kiersten: I don't really think Trick has a reason to test Evony's
blood, but if he wanted to, Vex had her contained for a while.

@drusilla_doll: DL mentioned 'digestive fluids' amongst her samples, so I don't think her samples came by gargoyle.

@nypinta: I agree with you and on the WTF about Bo's reaction to Kenzie's Dysongate. At least she admits that Dyson is hers.
39. TheUberFan
And if Bo is possessed...possibly by Daddy or by one of the damned souls on the train...maybe that's what set of the fire ward that Kenzi rigged to block malicious fae.
40. TheUberFan
Another reason I suspect Lauren is being held by the dark... is the fact that Lauren called it "Light Fae bullshit". Not fae bullshit.

I think they set that up so that they could deconstruct it next week.

That said, if it did end up being Trick, holy crap what a mess that would be. And awesome in so many ways.
Nusi Dekker
41. NusiD
I can't imagine that the voice who talked to DL in the cell was Trick!! It did sound like him, but all the clues point to the mystery captor being Evony. Evony was using Lauren's apartment. Evony had access to the small microscope and portable lab equipment that DL had at her apartment. Evony saw the "Karen" wanted poster, and the voice called DL "Karen" in the cell. I don't know how Trick would know about "Karen," it was never mentioned in his presence. And besides, the way the capture went down is just not Trick's M.O. It has to be a red herring.
Nusi Dekker
42. NusiD
Also, how could DL not recognize that voice as Trick's? She has heard him enough...that voice sounded nothing like Hale.
43. TheGardner
So another episode of Lost Girl in the can and still more questions and few answers, ugh. Guys, nine episodes left, shit or get off the pot.


The cold open was kind of a mess. I am thinking that some portion of this scene ended on the cutting room floor because the transition from Bo asking Dyson about Lauren(did he know that Lauren was "missing" at this point?) to sexy times was unusually jarring. The presentation that it was "just sex", for Bo, came across cleanly, but the reasoning was muddled. I am going with a combination of her taking back control, passive agressively giving Lauren's "one rule" the middle finger, anger, hunger, and lust. I am guessing this is the start of the "dark Bo fuck everything I want" arc, but I think that it would have been better for her character to use a random instead of someone she knows has feelings for her. Then again maybe that was the point. As for the sex scene itself, for an attempted recreation of the opening of Vexed it failed. Both actors looked wooden and unconvincing. I know from interviews that KHR was trying to be "super" respectful since AS had just given birth, but I think he was to careful and the exchange lacked the passion of their previous encounters.

There was some good movement with Bo and Kenzi, why it was necessary to spend most of the episode reestablishing them as sister seemed like a waste of time. Dyson whining about his love again, fucking broken record, can the guy be about anything else? Tamsin has wings and Kenzi's dealer offed himself. Lauren is chained up with Crystal in an auto body shop dungeon that looks suspiciously like Dyson's apartment being watched by some ominous voice that sounds suspiciously like RH. And the petulant child was forced into alignment with the Dark, so I am sure she is going to take that lying down.

Dyson and Kenzi, it sounded like he was offering to train her, WTF? I thought it was beneath fae to comingle with humans, but now it is OK to give them fae tips? This made no sense to me.


Bo - What a selfish ass, there were several moments in this episode when I really wanted to punch her in the face. Me, Me, Me, that was her tagline all episode. She doesn't want Dyson, but she gets snippy with Kenzi for kissing him, real mature. She uses Dyson as her little lap dog and she is so selfish she makes Kenzi's heartbreaking confession about her life with the fae all about herself. If she had stopped and looked at the bigger picture then maybe she would have seen the parallels between Kenzi and Lauren, then she would understand why Lauren would follow someone like Taft. If this is Dark Bo then I kind of hate her.

Kenzi - OK for all of the lackluster acting gracing our screen this season, KS absolutely killed it in this episode. Her confession was beautiful and perfectly expressed why she was so desperate with Massimo as well as this newfound kinship with Lauren. Kenzi has been dealt a hard lesson and for all the grief she has given her over the years she comes to her defense again in this episode because she has realized it is not all black and white. I think the issue with Massimo was wrapped up a little to easily and I would like to see some consequences for her actions.

Dyson - OK so I am probably alone, especially on this thread, but seriously what the hell is wrong with him? He knows and acknowledges that Bo is in love with someone else, but he is so desperate for a connection with her he just lets her use him and then tries for seconds, wow pathetic. Isn't he supposed to be this macho alpha wolf, this is just sad. KHR's acting was better in this episode, though not much, he still feels off so I am really wondering if it is deliberate. I am interested to find out what Bo's reaction will be when she finds out he has been hiding things from her again.

Lauren - I am enjoying her story line outside of Bo and these little glimpses adding to the character. Eco-terrorism, in some ways it makes sense with her character and how willing she was to live in the present, especially concerning Bo who was basically a serial killer before they met. I like the dynamic building between her and Crystal, they have common ground and I think that is why she is able to open up to her so easily. I like the fact that she seems to be over the fae and is done taking their shit, about time. So who has her and what do they want?

Tamsin - So she is now Bo and Kenzi's roommate, who didn't see that one coming? I had to laugh at the Valkubus fans who were so excited about that hug between her and Bo. Watch the scene again and observe the energy exchange, that is how Bo thralls people and makes them fall in love with her, anyone remember the cop from 3x02? So this is her last life, are we taking bets on wether or not she will survive the season?

Crystal - So Crystal betrayed Lauren for the greater good/because she had too or whatever. Of course since she has developed feelings for Lauren now regrets it. I am sure a large portion of this is she didn't realize who she got involved with and it is still not clear exactly what she was promised or threatened with. Tune in next week I guess.

Massimo - So he's dead, damn! Oh wait I don't care, Bo's evil smile after he threw himself in the cauldron was interesting. I detect another anvil that Bo is going, gasp, dark! Since he's dead will the girls raid his house or will they finally make a trip to Ikea and buy a real couch?

Minus a few things this was a pretty decent episode. It pains me to say this, but I really hated the way Bo treated Dyson in this episode. I hated more the fact that he allowed it was actually in character for him. Now to go back and read eveyone's comments!
44. drusilla_doll
Yeah, I think they wanted us to think it was Light Fae doing this to DL, when in fact it's Evony. It dovetails well into what's possibly going to happen next week.

@cmm RE: Funeral spec, as I recall, it was tweeted by an extra on set for ep 12 (it has now since been deleted) and Ksenia tweeted an instagram photo of herself with a black gauzy veil over part of her face. Also around the time of shooting 10/11, EA herself tweeted that she was crying a lot having to write the upcoming scripts.
Carmen Pinzon
46. bungluna
Several things, which I hope I remember:

1. Good call on the Twig keeping Massimo alive. I would be majorly pissed if he left the show this way.
2. I was thinking that maybe the blood was Vex's and that he'd been feeding off the Morrigan while he had her in captivity, disregarding or not knowing that he and she had a blood connection. Now I'm all confuzzed.
3. The barriers at Hilton Hovel were to keep malicious fae out, right? Well, even if Bo was Dark, she wouldn't hold malicious intent towards her bestie so there has to be another reason why the barrier reacts to her. Being posessed seems to me to be the best response to that one.
4. Tamsin has developed physically very quickly, but I imagine that mentally it's going to be slower. Loved her, especially on the cop-shop scene. Bo and Dyson as parents were very much in character for both of them, imo.
5. Finally, hurray for Kenzie telling Bo a few home truths! Was about time someboyd had a come to Jesus meeting with Bo. She's been acting like a spoiled brat for a while now. I just hope that once she gets over the Dyson snit, she will think upon what Kenzie said to her.
47. nypinta
Is it just me or did the forgiveness scene between Kenzi and Bo not feel completely genuine? It did to me. And I rankled a bit when Bo said the thing about sticking together even when people make mistakes as if Bo was still considering the kiss between Kenzi and Dyson something Kenzi actually should feel guilty about?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
48. Kiersten
@Nypita no one seems to be mentioning how they all forgot about Bo. Kenzi had that one "oh shit" moment when Bo hugged her and said something about "how could I/you forget" but it doesnt look like anyone's clued her in as to their collective memory loss while she was gone, which would easily explain away the Kyson kiss.

Also, little pissed we were cheated out of ANOTHER key Bo & Kenzi scene, but mollified by the good scenes between them at DL's apartment.
49. TheUberFan
@TheGardner... regarding the full body glow. Remember, Bo's powers work differently on different fae. And Bo sees this as a baby fae with crazy strong powers so she uses her glow to pull her back from the ledge. Tamsin's response wasn't sexual. She doesn't even know what that is right now. And Bo wasn't trying to get her in the mood...just calm her and make her put her wings away.

It was meaningful in that Tamsin's response was not that of a thrall...but of someone who is very young and starting to understand what Dyson told her earlier. It felt anvil-ish to me.
Nadine Robb
50. cmm
"Kenzi had that one "oh shit" moment when Bo hugged her and said
something about "how could I/you forget" but it doesnt look like
anyone's clued her in as to their collective memory loss while she was
gone, which would easily explain away the Kyson kiss."

This exactly. I dunno I thought the episode was good but parts like this irritated me. They were all suffering from the memory loss so why wouldn't they mention that to her. Unless there was some scene that we missed and happpened off scene. Also, the dance at the Dahl they all just dance. I didn't get that scene at all, unless they are trying to show Bo as fragile. Just wanting to forget about her experience and selfishly demanding or forcing people to do things?? I think this episode moved a bit too slowly for me. Yah it was cute in parts but, I could really care less about the anything that was shown except Tamsin and the end. It was nice to learn about the life cycle of the valkyrie. Also, although it pains me to admit it lol, Lauren was tolerable this episode. Lastly, I really want the story to move along so we can finally meet the wanderer. It's high time he showed up and explained himself.
J Steller
51. Steller
Finally an episode I could get behind. Lots of Bo and Kenzi scenes, my favorite! At first I was annoyed because we were robbed of seeing Bo and Kenzi's reunion. This show has a tendency to leave a lot of potentially interesting scenes off screen. Like when Bo asked about why Kenzi went to see the Norn. I was so confused when the next episode did not show this conversation. Who woudn't have wanted to see Bo's reaction to finding out Dyson got his love back? But ultimately the ep mostly made up for it will lots of bestie love.

So glad Rachel Skarsten is back! It looks like Tamsin's final life is going to be an interesting one.
52. TheUberFan
My question is, how long is the life cycle of a valkyrie?
J Steller
53. Steller
Oh, and sorry if someone else has already brought this up, but that dude that was talking to Lauren sounded like Trick, no?
54. nypinta
Yeah but at the bar Kenzi said something to the effect of insisting on taking Bo places where she would be safe and Bo retorted how she had been taken from The Dal in a puff of smoke in a way that means she and Kenzi talked about it, so that tidbit about forgetting from Kenzi is, I think, an indication that Kenzi told Bo all about the memory spell. There's no reason for any of them to not tell her. Kenzi obviously glossed over a few facts, like the kiss, and I hope not mentioning that she was probably wearing Bo's thongs for cases... but not tell her how she went up against a giant snake fae to break the spell? No way Kenzi keeps that the herself. No. Bo's snittyness is either her selfishness raring it's ugly head, or an example of how Bo is not really herself. I mean, Kenzi confesses to maybe loving Hale! And Bo doesn't even flinch or react. Not even a reflex smile.
55. stacymd2
Hi Everyone! I have not read any of the above posts, so if I am saying something that others have already said, then I apologize.

This was another great episode. I liked almost everything. The writing was sharp, the pacing was good. There were sweet moments, creepy moments as well as WTF moments. Even the WTF moments were good. If Lost Girl continues like this then SyFy will not have to worry about the 2014 ratings.

Last night I was worried when Doccubus did not explode. Doccubus exploding is an indicator to me that an episode was good or bad. When they broke out into calm, I grew concerned. Doccubus is a lot of things—rude, bullies, delusional—but never calm. They were all praising Lauren so I thought 404 was church of Lauren heavy. Surprise, surprise! It was Bo - Kenzi heavy.

Things I loved:
The Bo - Dyson sex scene was hot, but short. Production could have extended it a minute or five…
The spybang was confirmed for what it was by the spybanger herself. (ha!!!!)
Every party needs a Bo!
The Gargoyle was awesome. It reminded me of my favorite Doctor Who villain the Weeping Angels.
Kenzi told Bo that she kissed Dyson. No secretes or lies. The kiss is out in the open.
Kenzi confirms that she loves Hale. (yay!!!) Bring on K/H in Season four.
The scene between Kenzi and Bo, where Kenzi tells Bo how separate and alone she feels was touching. My heart broke for her. Both actresses were great.
Loved reborn Tamsin. Loved her innocence. Loved the scenes with her and Dyson at the cop shop and when Dyson told her a bedtime story.
Tamsin has wings!! RS is a beauty.
I loved the Bo – Tamsin scene where Bo talks Tamsin down from killing Massimo.
I loved, loved, loved the Bo – Kenzi make up scene. They are family.
Kenzi has a bedroom? I thought she slept on the floor in the living room.
Loved the Dyson – Kenzi scene at the end. He confirmed that Kenzi is not alone. What will Dyson teach her?
We will get to know more about the Dark Fae now that Bo is Dark.

Things I didn’t love:
Massimo’s shirt was hideous.
Bo’s corset thing was hideous.
Wonder Lauren’s brother is either Harry Houdini or David Blaine.
I missed Hale and Trick.
Another episode, still no Wanderer.

What was the object that Bo found with Lauren’s note? Was it the Light Fae necklace? It could not have been since Bo had already found that in Season 3 in a draw with Lauren’s cell phone.
Is Evony Massimo’s mother?
Why did Massimo kill himself? Then again, if Evony really is his mother, how did he survive his teenage years?
How could Bo’s blood choose a side for her? Why Dark? Half of her bloodline is Light.
56. stacymd2
About Karen:
Now she can understand why Bo was so angry after Lauren spybanged her and why Kenzi did not like her for a long time after.
Lauren’s real name is Karen. Wow, I can’t believe TPTB stuck with the Karen thing. This is the first time Lost Girl has actually shocked me.
Lauren is a terrorist, an eco-terrorist, confirmed by Lauren herself.
Lauren is a murderer. Just because she thought “no one was supposed to be there” doesn’t make her any less responsible for the deaths of 11 people.
Lauren is also a coward. Instead of dealing with the consequences of her crimes she ran. I can’t believe I was right! I had said over the summer that Lauren was using the Fae in order to avoid being thrown into prison for acts of terrorism. This cancels out all of the “Lauren is a SLAVE!!!!!” screeching that Doccubus does. Lauren chose to be an indentured servant and to recommit to servitude in order to avoid a life sentence in prison. She is not a slave.
Super, Genius, Scary Smart, Wonder Lauren, MD has made the same dumb “trusting bad people” mistakes since she was young. Why hasn’t she learned anything?
Lauren is really awful to think Hale would imprison her and Crystal in that way. Hale may act to jovial sometimes, but he is has never been cruel towards her.

I fear that TPTB are separating the men from the women. All of the men are Light while all of the women are Dark. How will this affect Kenzi / Hale? Kenzi is de facto Dark because she is technically Bo’s pet. This is yet another obstacle in the way of Bo / Dyson. They cannot be together, similar to the Jumbie and the human in 403.
I stand by my earlier statement that EA is using the “wolves mate for life” / triangle with Dyson like a carrot on a stick in order to keep Dyson/KHR fans watching while she puts Bo with Lauren or whoever else. Bo & Dyson will not be together until the last three minutes of the final episode, of the final season.
This means more Evony. (yay!!) Bo will have to answer to The Morrigan which should be very interesting.
TPTB are either setting up: A) more Lauren / Bo, they are both Dark. It wasn’t taboo when L/B were together when Lauren worked for the Light, I doubt it will be taboo now. B) Bo / Tamisn. I can live with Bo / Tamsin as long as Tamsin gets some of her former personality back. At least B/T is believable and could be fun.
I’m still waiting for the shoe to drop and Lauren/Doccubus to take over the rest of the season. EA has lined everything up to move in that direction.

Overall, 404 was a great episode. I cannot wait for 405.
Nusi Dekker
57. NusiD
@TheGardener I'm so glad that I'm not alone here because I "kind of hate" this new Bo too. She really is all about herself. She reminds me of Evony in many ways.

I think that Hale will no longer love Kenzi when he finds out she gave the Twig of Zamorra to Massimo. I think this is going to bite her in the butt in a future episode. I also think that Evony is going to call in Kenzi's obligation to grant her "favor" from S2. So Kenzi is neck-deep in Dark Fae.
Things are going to get interesting.
58. nypinta
Although I can see Hale being angry with Kenzi, I can't see his feelings for her changing because of an object. Even a family heirloom. Hale just doesn't seem that way to me. And if he really knew how desperate she was to power up and feel like she truely belonged and the Twig was all she had to bargin with, he wouldn't hold it against her.
59. TheGardner
I think the reason Doccubus didn't explode is because the Dyson/Bo hook-up had nothing to do with love, at least from Bo's side and it was glaringly obvious. I had expected outrage from the Team Dyson side and was really surprised there wasn't more backlash for Bo using him when she is fully aware he is in love with her.

The necklace appeared to be a present from Lauren to Bo, based on the inscription "Thank you for giving me the freedom to love, and I do" and her reaction to it.

Everyone go buy a lottery ticket Kiersten and I agree on something, Tamsin. I have trouble seeing a couple of contrived kisses, especially where one party looks repulsed, as indicative of a "love" connection. The bathtub scene was about a broken woman longing for a.connection and her devastation at the task she had to carry out. I also think they are half sisters.

@drusilla_doll I have a safe link for the episode, its not high def, but its decent and doesn't require any downloading. PM me on zetaboards if you want, my handle is the same.

@Uberfae Bo did her standard face stroking succubus touch so that's how I saw it with Tamsin.
60. drusilla_doll
@The Gardner: Thanks for the offer! :) Uberfaenatic already linked me and I am currently watching. Hopefully will be able to comment more fully once I am done.
61. TheUberFan
Right...she glowed her. But she was glowing a baby. A very powerful, angry Harbinger of Death baby who saw someone she cared about being held at knifepoint. She wasn't glowing to thrall...she was glowing to soothe. It was clearly different in approach and intent.
63. stacymd2
@ Anina: Welcome! Lauren is better when she is not a whiny, damsel in distress. Let’s hope we see more of this Lauren now that she is being (maybe) held by the Dark.

@ Whiskeywhite: Tamsin’s character bio on the Lost Girl website stated that she is Bisexual. This is why Doccubus had that Tamsin/RS meltdown at the end of Season three and over the summer.

@UberFaenatice: You could be right! Massimo could have been carrying the Twig of Zamora. I hope we have not seen the last of him. I just want to find out who his mommy dearest is.

@Kiersten: Your comments are the best. I like your speculation about Bo - Tamsin being half-sisters and Bo having Mad Fae disease from feeding off of her. Bo also fed off of the girl on the train. She could be another half-sister as well.
I really hope it’s was not Trick that kidnapped Lauren. It would be such an unnecessary move on his part. I think Lauren’s kidnapper is either Vex or Evony. Or…Trick could have been forced into this scheme by the Una Mens.
That is a good question about who Dyson could lean on…I hope the answer is Bo with a side of Hale.

@UberFaenatic: The Bathtub scene between Bo & Tamsin was the best one they’ve had together. I think EA has set up Tamsin to be either Bo’s sister or lover. We will find out for sure once we met the Wanderer. I cannot believe we STILL have not seen the Wanderer. Ugh!

@Drusilla_doll: I can’t agree with you more on this:
I do love that Dyson's very much a part of the family vibe. He belongs with Bo, Kenzi and now Tamsin. He certainly didn't boss the girls around and instead took on a more nurturing role this ep. Yep, all you Dyson nay-sayers, he CAN switch it up and be the stay-at-home-with-the-kids-guy too when the need calls for it. So much for him only being Macho Paternalistic Hero-wannabe Douche 24/7. ;)

@nypinta: Maybe Lauren was kidnapped by the Wanderer himself? Maybe he is concerned about Bo’s behavior. Wouldn’t it be funny if it is Lauren that meets the Wanderer first?

I think Lauren’s brother is alive, also on the run, and we will meet him later in the season or in Season five.

FTR I don’t put any value in DL's assertion that she "knows her girlfriend's body chemistry" so well, she can immediately recognize Bo's blood cells at the microscopic level. She is human, after all.

Don’t underestimate Genius, Houdini , Wonder Lauren, MD.

@UberFaenatic & nypinta: The Norn spec is interesting…There are so many unclosed plots that LG could bring into play. The Dawning revenge has yet to happen.

@TheGardener: Bo and Lauren have broken up so the “no Dyson rule” does not apply.

@Steller: Yes, LG does this a lot where the audience is “cheated” out of seeing important conversations. I believe in an interview a few months back EA said that she thought they were unnecessary. It was an interview where the interviewer had asked about the missing Kenzi – Bo Norn conversation.

@NusiD: I can’t imagine Hale not forgiving Kenzi for giving away his heirloom twig. Back in Season two he gave her another precious family object. It was the episode where they are at a Fae party and Kenzi was with Nate. I don’t remember it exactly.
Nusi Dekker
64. NusiD
@stacymd2 Hale gave Kenzi his Granny's fascinator, or headress, which Kenzi wore on her wrist. I remember that. You are probably right, Hale will forgive Kenzi, but I think he will be royally pissed at her.
65. TheUberFan
If Hale stops loving her because she gave the Twig of Zamorah to Massimo, then I hope the ship sinks fast because that isn't true love. What I hope will happen is that he'll be angry and disappointed but in the end, they'll grow closer from it and he'll have a better sense of understanding just how freaked she was without Bo around that she did things she'd never consider otherwise.
66. TheGardner
@stacymd - I am aware of that, which is why I referred to Bo's actions as a passive agressive fuck you to Lauren's "no-Dyson" rule. Basically meaning that since the relationship is over Bo, being oh so highly mature, and hating any kind of rules is acting out against the one confine Lauren imposed upon her.

@Uberfae - I guess I don't really see your point, the thrall was the same and she has used it in the past to calm people down or make them submit, the fact that Tamsin is a powerful baby doesn't change that.
67. TheUberFan
From my perspective, she used her power of persuasion to give pleasure to entice people into wanting to do whatever she wanted.

But in Tamsin's case, it wasn't meant to be sexual because she doesn't understand that kind of thing right now. And her reaction to being glowed wasn't what we've seen in others either. I think the affect it has on valkyries is different than it is on other fae, like we were told way back when. And in her case, it calmed her and walked her back from the ledge.

Tamsin backed down but her response wasn't that of a thrall. It was the bookend to the anvil-ish conversation she had with Dyson back in the precinct about love and knowing it when you find it.

Basically, I'm disputing the notion that Tamsin only said what she did because she had been thralled because she wasn't enthralled.
68. drusilla_doll
Okay, so I finally got the see the episode and I really enjoyed it. It was jam-packed with good stuff and I do feel that we're headed into interesting waters.

The initial scene with Bo and Dyson boxing and sexing was enjoyably hot. Yes, I am going to dare say it, it was hot. Perhaps not as awesomely raw as Vexed but there was still passion there. Does it mean they are back to being romantic couple? Not so much. But it's a good start and sex for fun or release is not a bad thing.

Interesting that Bo remembered most things, Taft and so on. So she's not blind to the fact that Lauren broke up with her of her own accord, left her cellphone behind so Bo couldn't contact her, and then completely reiterated the 'I loved you before but now we're really over' thing in the S3 finale. Does this mean that she's completely over her? No, of course not, Bo wasn't completely over Dyson in S2 either. But I don't think that Dyson feels that used, he's just having low expectations. He does understand Bo, more than most, and his offer of a release later in the episode helps support that. Is it pathetic that he's accepting less than a fully committed relationship with Bo right now? No, I don't think so. He loves her, but he's not pushing her to reciprocate in kind. Should he remain a monk until she does promise him the moon and the stars? Umm, no. Why? I'm sure he's just pleased that she wants any kind of intimacy from him and is willing to wait for her feelings to grow.

I do find it funny that people blame Dyson for being possessive, controlling and too macho in one breath and then condemn him for being tender, undemanding and accepting what Bo's prepared to give as well. So he's a paternalistic douche on the one hand and an emasculated pathetic wolf on the other. Which is it?

Look, I get it, Dyson's got his faults. He's not Mr. Ideal and yet he's still essentially (as Kenzi would put it) one of the good ones. Just like Kenzi would argue Lauren is. Perhaps that is what we, as fans. need to accept. No-one is perfect for Bo. Bo herself isn't perfect. They all are flawed and yet good people, when push comes to shove.

Speaking of Bo, I think there is more darkness there and ruthlessness than usual, but I think it's still subtle at this point. And I know a lot said she smiled at Massimo's possible demise but she also was 'oh no, no!' while it happened. Do I think she's possessed or compromised? Possibly, but for me it's not that overt yet. Are there clues? Yes. But she's still demonstrating normal Bo behavior overall. Even the issues fans had with her acknowledgment of Kenzi's confessions doesn't seem that extreme. What I watched and what I read about those moments seem very removed from each other.

Sometimes I think we need to step back from the nitpicking when it causes OTT reactions about lines of dialogues and minor plot points.

Quite frankly, I'm fairly sure the writers don't hold the show under the intense microscopic scrutiny that some of us fans do. It's TV, it's 40 something minutes of entertainment, not a literary masterpiece.

I really enjoyed Dyson this episode. He was nurturing but still floundering a little at having to deal with emotional truths as pushed by young Tamsin.

Young Tamsin was adorable. I loved her so much and her face when Bo and Dyson were flirting in code was so so cute. Her story is both fun and heartbreaking. I am so intrigued by the whole Valkyrie life-cycle theme.

Kenzi's confessions and bare honesty scenes with Bo were just so awesome. Ksenia Solo is a talented actress and she really sold the loneliness and lost quality of Kenzi right now. I just loved those two having scenes and trying to reconnect, they are one of the most impt pairings on the show. I heart them. I didn't think Bo was off or insincere in her reconciliations, but nor did I think she was as harsh as some people claim. I will concede, however, that perhaps she's a little more selfish than we've known her. A touch more hedonistic and ruthless.

Is Daddy to blame? I guess that remains to be seen.

Lauren. I don't often want to talk about Lauren in much detail, but this episode was a breath of fresh air. I finally felt emotionally connected to her, and it's been a long time coming. Her frustration, her acknowledgment of the ironic justice of Crystal's spybang, her confession to Crystal about her brother and need for atonement and her final refusal to play the game and calling out of her captors FELT earned. Dare I say it, this version of Lauren, I could admire.

What I never liked about her was the fact that she seemed an eternal victim, a Mary Sue, Wonder Lauren who never really could be trusted, while reaping the benefits of that put-upon wide-eyed too-smart-for-you persona. Now that we've seen her truly pay for her silly, naive mistakes, and take ownership of her wrongs, I like her. I like where she's headed. Perhaps I will take this back if she just goes all doe-eyed and pliant with Bo next episode, but for now, this toughened resolute Lauren is a welcome change.

Are there things I disliked about this episode which I may comment on later? Yep. But overall, I think it was pretty awesome and entertaining. I really hope that there will be more Bo/Dyson bonding and intimate moments, but the story arcs as a whole are pretty compelling and there's lots to tune in for.
Carmen Pinzon
70. bungluna
Bo seems to be on a "it's all about me" kick. It feelt like every exchange she had with every other character, she turned into "me, myself, I" pov.
Suzanne Metaxas
71. SuzyM
As to there being no feeling between Dyson and Bo that is horse manure and wishful thinking. Bo cares for Dyson and that is why they have the passion that they do and why she seeks him out. Their playful banter in the cop shop was reminisent of their poking at each other in S1. Good fun followed by hot sex.

One thing that I find a real plot fail is Kenzi giving away the Twig of Zamora, now way street smart Kenzi would have given that up. It was just too powerful and kept her safe.
72. TheUberFan
Oh I don't know, @SuzyM. She was blinded by the need for fae powers that I think she missed out on the obvious solution, which was wear the twig at all times.

She was off kilter and off her game and felt completely alone and abandoned. :(
Suzanne Metaxas
73. SuzyM
Sorry, a girl who stayed alive that long on the streets isn't that dumb. Writers failed there.
74. TheUberFan
True but look at what else she did for the glitter cream. She stole a lot from Trick, including something he said could help get Bo back. Now, did she steal it before she remembered Bo? Probably.

But he knew she had stolen stuff from her. She could have easily given it back to him but she didn't because she was desperate.

But I agree...obviously the twig would have been the smartest way to go.
75. drusilla_doll
That final scene with Massimo was weird. He just seemed to lose his marbles and revert to a gibbering kid wanting to please his mommy. I really hope he didn't die, leaping into that lava pit. Otherwise, how lame was that?

I suspect Evony is his mother. And he has a human version of Mad Fae disease if Evony really is the one who's suffering from what Lauren diagnosed. Or maybe that case is just a random, a test to see if Lauren complies.
76. drusilla_doll

@SuzyM: True, I don't think Kenzi would be stupid enough to give up a magical artifact which made you invulnerable to harm. But then again I also have a major issue with Kenzi having the time and patience to teach Lauren - someone who really doesn't connect with her personality-wise - how to pick locks. Does not compute. But hey, the writers told us so, so we have to accept it. /rolls eyes.
77. TheUberFan
@SuzyM and @drusilla_doll... I know you're both right. I'm just trying to give my girl Kenzi the bene of the doubt here. ;)
Suzanne Metaxas
79. SuzyM
Another reason i think Trick is holding Lauren is he wasn't at the Dal when Bo & Kenzi were there. He's always at the Dal! Oh and another thing if DL could pick the locks on her handcuffs than why couldn't she do Crystals too???
Susan White
81. whiskeywhite
I just knew that if I turned my back for the day, I'd be majorly behind on comments. Do you people not care that I have to make a living? :-)

@Kiersten -- it is DEFINITELY Trick's voice. Is somebody impersonating him? Not likely. Lauren does look pretty shocked when the door opens and she sees who it is. @SuzyM -- I, too, noticed that he wasn't at the Dal when Bo was partying. There was another bartender. (BTW, black extras are back -- the bartender and Mr. Sexy takes-his-shirt-off-to-dance).

Have no clue whose blood Lauren tests. Unless they're lying, it's supposedly an "elder". Hardly Bo. What about Aife? Nobody has suggested her yet.

Speaking of blood, how can anyone's blood be Dark? Or have their blood choose for them? The story so far has been very clear that people choose sides themselves. Still, Bo might be different. Aife, her mother, is Dark. But the father is presumably the key. Trick is supposedly above Light and Dark right? Good question @Drusilla_doll as to whether Trick is willing to work with the Una Mens.

You're right, @Anina, that it was Bo and not Dyson who chose the shopping euphemism. Makes more sense. But he still doesn't read romance novels (or watch Julia Roberts videos, to recall a much earlier conversation). I agree about Bo and Dyson as parents and Dyson's rather striking new parenting children role.We know he doesn't cook or do dishes, but it looks like he would be a good father (don't lose your cookies @TheGardner).

@TheGardner -- I too noticed the jarring transition between Dyson kindly raising the issue of Bo's worry about Lauren being missing and then suddenly she jumps him. Even he comments that there's something different about her. I wouldn't go so far as to label him "pathetic" but he certainly seems to be accepting, one might say settling for, Bo for what she is, and where's she's at. Unless we throw overboard the established "wolves mate for life" principle and his character trait of being almost overly loyal, what other choice does he have? I do have the dreaded feeling, though, that we cannot look forward to many more B/D sexy times. I also noticed the evil smile after Massimo's apparent death and thought, "What was that?" Why wouldn't Dyson train Kenzi? They are far, far beyond his early disdain for humans and extremely close.
84. TheUberFan
What if it's both Trick AND Evony?

With the Una Mens in town, I don't dismiss any possibility right now. lol
85. TheGardner
@whiskeywhite - The exchange went down like this:

Dyson: You want to talk about that first thing?

Bo: Any word?

Dyson: Not lately, but its better that she stays away. Lauren's smart, she can handle herself.

Bo: If I have to protect myself from all of these unknowns, I should get a hit below the belt. *kiss

Dyson: Something is different about you.

Bo: *grabs his dick You seem to like it in a huge way. *Commence fuckage.

The entire thing took 30 seconds, it was abrupt and there was nothing romantic about it. She tells Kenzi later she is full so one can presume she fed, then she starts a topless dance party at the Dal, this does not speak of great love either. And I believe, nay I hope, that when Bo finds out Dyson has been keeping things from her again she lets him have it with both barrels.

On a related note I hope this new spine-having Lauren gives it to Bo with both barrels about what a shit girlfriend she was and calls her out on being a self-centered asshat.

As to Dyson being pathetic; I stand by my original assessment. His love story line has bored me to tears for going on three seasons now so I am unsympathetic to his plight. I also feel that stuck loving Bo or not, he should have enough respect for himself not to accept crumbs, but they had sex so I guess that makes it OK, whatever. Demand more for yourself wolf.
87. katotela
Just finished watching the ep.i have couple of qns to ask; we have seen tamsin rapid growth in two when is valkyrie growth stops??and what power does the valkyrie hair hold?and what was with the necklace bo found at lauren's?
89. nypinta
Everyone keeps saying Dyson is keeping things from Bo. What things? He clearly doesn't consider the kiss something he should feel guilty about, which is why he said to Kenzi, "you know we didnt' do anything wrong." So, what? What exactly is he keeping from her?

And some of Bo's actions can be attributed to a reaction to being abducted out of a place she considered safe, The Dal. And she's just happy to be back yet still not on emotionally equilibrium yet. So jubulation and celebration could be a cover for insecurity. But she isn't acting herself. As for Dyson just accepting sexy times from Bo, that's pretty much how he always is. Every love scene on the show with Dyson is always one that the woman initiates. E2? Booty call to heal. Vexed? Same thing. With Val, Ciara... he never initiates.

I can completley see Kenzi giving up the twig since it was all she had to bargin with the first time she want to see Massimo and I think she consiered having fae powers more important. She wanted to be able to fight, not be protected. The twig would keep her safe only. She wanted to help keep her friends safe. In her mind, it was a trade worth making.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
92. Kiersten
@Nypita - I was about to say the same thing. Bo knows everything Dyson knows with the one exception being Aoife and really, Dyson doesnt know squat about that and, once again, Trick's the one holding all the cards on that one. I, for one, think he imprisoned Aoife in the cells beneath The Dal, but we'll see. Bo knows about the kiss, she knows about DL, she knows Dyson is looking for DL, she knows about the Una Mens, she knows everything Dyson knows at this point, at least about the high points in Faeville. She can't even be pissed about the kiss b/c they're not exclusive, and, oh yeah, they were under a spell and had forgotten all about her. So there really isn't anything for Dyson to "get both barrels" over except more of Bo's trumped up bullshit to create manufactured conflict and push her inexplicably back to DL's arms, which will likely wind up being the case because GOD FORBID we actually have more than 2 mins of Bo and Dyson together. Also, what the hell happened to all the tenderness and love they displayed toward one another in episode 3? That was genuine; that was real. Wait, sorry, forgot this show is actually all about Doctor Lauren. My bad. (That's sarcasm, BTW)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
93. Kiersten
Also, if it is Trick who has DL (and I really think so) and he does have Aoife imprisoned beneath The Dal, then yes, it makes sense that "the elder fae" whose blood DL examined (how the hell did she know from the blood that it was an elder? The term is used for position not age) is likely Aoife and he's trying to cure her Mad Fae Disease that ultimately made her crazy. If *she* was feeding off her own kind...but what is her own kind? She and Bo are the rare succubi and feeding off other Fae is de rigueur for them, so who could she have been cannibalizing? Also, under the memory spell, she wasn't totally crazy, so is it her memories that make her mad or the Mad Fae Disease? Is Bo on her way to repeating her mother's behavior and thus falling preyt to the same disease? It would explain though not excuse Trick's extreme actions.
94. nypinta
It could be Aife that Lauren diagnosed. I thought the voice said something to her about the sample being from an Elder Fae first. But I could be wrong, since the sound was crap when I was watching. But that still would have Trick using unlikely extremes to bring Lauren in. Unless he did it for appearances sake only. Maybe just in case someone else saw that he had Lauren he could claim he captured her or, I don't know, something. (Lame, I know.)

I'm still unsure about Bo though. She is acting off. But almost all of her off actions and reactions can be attributed to many things. I just know that her reaction to Kenzi in the confession scene just immediately pissed me off. I really wanted Kenzi to say when Bo made that "you guys are close" snipe, "really? That's your takeaway from what I just said?" and maybe told her to fae off. And the first time I saw the final make up scene between them I didn't think anything of it, but later I saw a clip of it and it just struck me as off and that Bo was a tad insincere. And still blaming Kenzi for being in the wrong. But she's instinctively still Bo, like when she at first rushed forward when Massimo jumped. But then she smiled. Is it something wrong with her or is she just that tired of being screwed with? Both would make sense. And how will be told she's dark effect how she acts? Will she fight it or will she give in?
Nusi Dekker
95. NusiD
It would be pretty bad writing if the blood of the Fae with spongiform encephelitis (Mad Fae Disease, which can only be diagnosed with a brain scan and not by a blood sample because it doesn't show up in blood) was Aoife's because the Fae would have to exclusively feed off their own close relatives and no one else. Lauren said the condition would go away as soon as the Fae changed his/her diet. And, the succubi would be instantly healed by feeding off anyone non-family. So it just dosn't make any sense that the "elder fae" would be Aoife.

That was weird that Lauren did not get Crystal out of her bonds since she said that Crystal was allergic to the nickel in the shakles and was sick from it. Very strange. I actually would be very disappointed if it did turn out to be Trick (and his absence at the Dal is telling). It would be so deliciously cool if it was Evony standing there in Lauren's dress!
Nusi Dekker
96. NusiD
BTW, the sound that Dyson and Bo heard while they were having sex in the beginning was the gargoyle, who was watching them. Will Dyson get in trouble with the Una Mens later for having relations with a Dark Fae?
97. nypinta
@NusiD, good points against it being Aife that's diseased. My gut still thinks its Evony that took her. The why she had her looking at that kind of sample is up in the air. It being a hold over from Taft's would be interesting, but not necessary. But it could be how Evony gets Lauren to work with her, say she could wipe away the charges against the fae by fixing what Taft did.

The bit with Lauren lockpicking was fun in the moment and I loved the gag that Kenzi has been teaching them all how to do it. I figure she hadn't undone Crystal's because she couldn't without giving it away that she could, but then she showed her hand when she lost her temper and told off who she thought was Hale. At that point she figured since he had the key he could just undo them so why should she? It was a power play on her part, really. Too bad it wasn't Hale she was talking to.
98. nypinta
Oh my. I just thought of something. The writers kind of get credit for not having either Trick or Hale in this episode so to fool us into thinking either one of them are responsible for taking Lauren.

Could it have been Vex? Mabey he's sick because of what the Una Mens did to him?
99. Darthfaeder
@Whiskey in post 6 you asked me why Tamsin is still acting like a young adult/young teen. My best guess is that while her body has matured to where it is suppose to be her mind and emotions haven't yet. My guess is by next episode that the Old Tamsin will reappear but probably alot more nicer to everyone now that she is one of the gang, and that she knows that she is loved. Having said that I still want Bitchiness and a butt load of Snarkiness to everyone who isn't Bo or Kenzi, or Dyson.
@Kiersten in post 13 you stated that you were more convinced that Bo and Tamsin are sisters while that could still be a possibility you probably should know that Rachel has already confirmed that Tamsin will be doing alot of smoochy smoochy with someone which we all knows leads to sex on LG. Since Kenzi is a straight character, and both Dyson and Lauren are both insanely in love with Bo the only other lodgical person that they could put with Tamsin is Bo. Bo has already shown a extremely williness to have sex with just about everyone and I don't think Tamsin will be an exception. Besides don't forget when Tamsin got shot by that guy at the Taft compound Bo tried to suck his chi and put it into Tamsin and that didn't work. It is quite possible that Bo's powers have some sort of non effect on Tamsin and Tamsin's powers have a non effect on Bo. Does this mean they are sisters? I don't know but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet. You should probably hold off the sisters thing until later. Give Tamsin and Bo a chance to be around each other with Tamsin being reborn and Bo finding out that she is Dark Fae and she has apparently changed in Dyson's opinion.
100. nypinta
I know... I just keep thinking of things... I think Kenzi taught them all how to pick locks, especially Lauren, because of the time she was abducted by the kitsune. So regardless of her feelings towards Lauren, which seem to be positive now, I can see her not wanting Lauren in the same position she was if Kenzi can help it. Because that's Kenzi. The one who always thinks of the little things.
Susan White
101. whiskeywhite
Yah, I have to kind of agree with you, @TheGardner: Demand more for yourself wolf. Yet another adult conversation needed. Fat chance. But then I agree with Drusilla_doll as well (nice discussion of Dyson overall, d_d): I don't think that Dyson feels that used, he's just having low expectations... He loves her, but he's not pushing her to reciprocate in kind.

Interesting observation, @nypinta, that Dyson never initiates sex. I hadn't noticed that before. He did initiate that kiss with Kenzi, though she was giving him welcoming vibes (and that stunning smile). Maybe I could spend half an hour or so going over every Dyson kiss in the series to identify the kissing pattern. Oh, right. I have to work. :-)

Thanks for the info, @stacymd2, that Tamsin’s character bio on the Lost Girl website states that she is bisexual. But there's no evidence so far, right? Anyone? So must be the set-up for a Tamsin loves Bo situation, and not in a sisterly way. Or Tamsin loves Bo but doesn't know she's her sister (I'm not convinced of that). Or Tamsin/somebody female. (Edit) I see that while I was composing, you came to the same Bo/Tamsin conclusion @Darthfaeder. I think it's inevitable. As you say, Kenzi and Lauren aren't options ( I was thinking the same thing).

Several people have said that Bo seems off, different, more ruthless and I agree. I would add colder. Good point, @nypinta, that she doesn't even react to Kenzi admitting that she loves Hale. And I laughed out loud at your suggestion of what Kenzi should have said to Bo after the "you're close, right?" crack: "really? That's your takeaway from what I just said?" As @bungluna says, "Bo seems to be on a "it's all about me" kick." Pretty anvilish actually, as Kiersten would say, that she has changed. She does talk about refusing to be frightened any more (is that what the boxing lessons are about? Since when does Bo box?).

I agree that Hale won't stop loving Kenzi over the Twig. But he should be angry as @UberFaenatic says
What I hope will happen is that he'll be angry and disappointed but in the end, they'll grow closer from it and he'll have a better sense of understanding just how freaked she was without Bo around.
Since I was, and still am, predicting a drag-it-out-orama over Hale and Kenzi, I was glad to see a step forward in this episode. I guess we can't get all the chocolates in the box in the first few episodes.

Another laugh out moment -- indeed L-O-L prize -- was @stacymd2's:
Why did Massimo kill himself? Then again, if Evony really is his mother, how did he survive his teenage years? And yes, Bo’s corset thing was hideous.
Susan White
103. whiskeywhite
And now for some serious plot discussion: Can't forget the thongs. Are they Bo's and Kenzi was wearing them? I was going to point out that Bo snarks that she doesn't wear underwear when the kitsunes invade her bedroom and threaten to try on her underwear. But that was definitely a thong, or a close relative, that Dyson pulled down from under her skirt in "Vexed". Kenzi does say to Dyson, "I have like 80 thongs". Maybe, since she couldn't remember Bo, they have 40 each. Reasonable. :-)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
105. Kiersten
Why again is Doctor Lauren not an option for "smoochy smoochy" with Tamsin? She's already demonstrated she's more than ready to hit the sheets with someone other than Bo. If Crystal is not long for Faeville, and DL is held by Evony as so many of you surmise, and as a result winds up on the Dark Side of the Fae, seems to me that's more than enough set up for Dark Fae, fully restored Tamsin to "smoochy smooch" with the not-so-good doctor. Frankly, hooking up with Doctor Lauren would be so much more delicious that the standard Bo boinking that seems to be expected of every new character on this show.

I dont see Tamsin hitting up Dyson for "smoochy smooch", not because he's in love with Bo (which doesnt automatically mean he'll be sexually monogomous to her) but b/c their relationship is established as bickering if fond of one another partners. I think it's Tamsin who wouldnt move on Dyson because of his love for Bo as she's always acknowledged that relationship - "our wolf" - so I agree that the "smoochy smooch" likely isn't with him but not for the reasons stated above. And on that note, I wouldn't mind seeing Dyson reclaim some of his self respect and bang some chickie to give Bo a bigger taste of her own medicine. Lawd knows that succubus needs to learn to appreciate what she's got especially since she's one in a million who got the chance to have it again after it was gone.

Get with the wolf program, Bo.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
106. Kiersten
As for Bo's thongs - that dont-wear-underwear crack was a joke. She wears it all the time. Its getting more than a little silly if we're discussing thongs as plot points.
Nusi Dekker
107. NusiD
I think the thongs were there to establish post-Bo Kenzi as a sex kitten, something that she wasn't before when Bo was there. Kenzi's aggressive sexiness with Dyson and Hale seemed horribly off to me, because that wasn't Kenzi until this season.

Also, way off that Bo laughed delightedly at Kenzi and said "Awesome" or something similar when Kenzi showed her sparkly hands to Bo at the Dal. Bo's response should have been "WTF did you do, Kenzi?"
Kiersten Hallie Krum
108. Kiersten
New promo is up for Sunday's upcoming episode. Looks like this will be the Dyson-free episode and that Bo is firmly Dark Fae...with Doctor Lauren, so basically, episode will suck donkey's balls. Somehow even knowing it was coming doesn't mitigate the deep disappointment. Much like S3.

Here's the link:
C. H.
109. SmurfFae
EA said in that interview, Bo was suffering from PTSD, which I think is a
partial reason for her being weird. (But probably not enough to turn her

I guess Tamsin will continue to act different from her old self and will
- for the next few episodes - not remember her former life(s). Which I
think is pretty funny and interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing how Bo and Lil' T will continue to interact.
If she'd start remembering stuff from her old life she'd remember the
identity of the wanderer and that probably won't happen 'til the end of
the season.

I also think, that Dyson should grow more of a backbone, if Bo is his
'mate for live'. But: he is just very mellow and patient about it, as only a
1000+ years old guy can be.
They always had an on-again-off-again-relationship. (And he broke it off the last time. Yes, the Freaking Norns fault. But he still did.)
He told her how he feels. He told her he'd wait 100 years. He knows she's not monogamous (at least not with a human).
And he probably knows, that if he just stays close to her long enough she'll definitely grow hungry in time... (supposition, ok, but he's been established as a horndog. Which is just one reason why he and Bo are such a great match.)
In the cop shop, I think it was Dyson who suggested 'to unwind' so he's not completely passive. Just. Playing. It Very. Slow.
But, when DL will be back in play and the triangle will be re-established, he'll be more motivated to make a bolder move.
Especially now, that Bo is magically dark and they are like
Romeo&Juliet he might be forced to fight harder / invest more effort to be close to her.

Oh, and it's also entirely possible that the 'sick fae elder' is no one we know or will ever meet. Or it could be the una woman.
110. nypinta
I think Kenzi's timing of the sparkly hands might have something to do with Bo's positive reaction. She was dancing and happy. I wonder what exactly the sparks do?? I mean, is that really it? Sparks? Can she set stuff on fire? Because unless the sparks do something there is no way that would fool a real fae because they'd be like, "So, you're a roman candle...?" It's probably going to be a moot point soon, but it bugs me.
Nusi Dekker
111. NusiD
So that answers the question of who took Lauren. Looks like Evony is back as the Morrigan, but can she have a worse hairstyle? Ugh.

Bo crowd-succubussing the Una Mens...hmmm...I guess she's saving Trick, who has been summoned by them.

Sorry you are so disappointed, Kiersten, but it is only a one-minute promo...things aren't always as they seem, so you might be pleasantly need to get in a bad mood before the episode airs. ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
112. Kiersten
@NusiD - you're absolutely right and I would *love* to be wrong, you have no idea. I'm just so used to the doccubus fan wanking and pandering at this point, I automatically expect it at every turn.

I like the idea of Bo succubusting the Una Mens and wonder, if they're so powerful, what that might do to her.
Susan White
113. whiskeywhite
Kiersten. Thanks for the link. Very heavy promo. Oh, and I'll remember not to be more than a little silly. I don't do silly that well anyway.

Good discussion of Dyson @SmurfFae.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
114. Kiersten
I mean, they invested a lot into S3 to develop a real, full relationship between Bo and DL and then more organic effort as to how badly it does not work. To constantly perpetuate it screams pandering, especially when DL continues to do awful things that, had Dyson anyone else done the same, Bo wouldve kicked them permanently to the curb long ago.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
115. Kiersten
And no, that's not because she truly "loves" DL, it's because they're written that way for mitigating circumstances, which is what drives me loco. OK. Enough whinging from me.
118. Anina
@ Kiersten

How do we know there's a Dyson-free episode?
I seem to recall KHR mentioning an ep where Dyson gets caught while in wolf form. And that this plot would span 2 eps??? (not sure this is accurate, though).
You think that's why it's going to be Dyson-free? Or for a different reason?
Nadine Robb
120. cmm
promo for next episode is up
Nadine Robb
121. cmm
Weird.... Kiersten did you know that the link button in the posting screen does not work? I just tried to post my current post of 120 before and it didn't post when I used the link feature. Without though it posted fine.
122. nypinta
He gets caught in wolf form? Hmm. I read somewhere else about an episode where Bo and Lauren have to go into Dyson's mind, which should be a trip. Wonder if they are related?

I think next week might be Dyson light, but with all the threads that need to be brought together that doesn't surpise me. Lauren has to get brought back into the fold and her past either dealt with or buried again. Fallout from Taft's should be tied up somehow. Bo's dad. The Una Mens, although they don't seem to care about Bo anymore so Kenzi should also be off the menu as she's claimed by Bo. Hints at stuff to come, like Lauren's brother. We've been told we'd get more backstory on Evony, Kenzi, and Dyson. And there's only 13 episodes, 4 of which are gone, to do it all in.

BTW, I don't think a symptom of PTSD is smiling when a foe melts themselves in a vat of lava. But I could be wrong.
124. TheUberFan
Wow...that promo looked very interesting. I LOVE that Evony is the Morrigan again! We knew she was getting her evil on the last time we saw her What did she have to do to regain her position?

And Bo! Super succ-ing the Una Mens? That woman is freakin' awesome.

Why is the Morrigan warning Bo about their interest in killing all her human friends? Is she going to use that as a bargaining chip to get Bo to do more for her?

I'm a bit worried about Trick though. He's been summoned? That can't be good.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
125. Kiersten
@Anina - I dont know it's a Dyson-free episode, but I highly suspect so. In every season, there is at some point one episode each where Kenzi, Dyson, and Doctor Lauren are either only in the beginning or the end or not at all. I believe it's contracts/business related i.e. everyone but the lead gets a week off or a lighter episode at some point. It makes sense that since this next episode appears to be entirely in the Dark Fae world where Dyson by law cannot tread that this would be his light week, especially since he's been carrying so much of the load in this first third of the season.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
126. Kiersten
@cmm the link I posted as the promo works so you can access it via that one if you want
127. Jfall
I can't see Bo taking any notice of Fae boundaries re Dyson if she wants to have sex with him but they may use Lauren hostage to the Dark Fae to gain compliance and that might set up that dynamic. God knows it needs more than the mate for life thing to give Dyson and Bo a better story.

I'm not sure that they knew where they were going in S3 with Tamsin and they've left seeds for both sister/lover thing, remember Bo started off saying Tamsin had weird tasting Chi and Saskia/Aife sampled Bo almost as a 'have I got the right Succubus?' test so it's possible that families can identifiy each other by their Chi. I still don't think they'll go there though, I think Tambo are definitely on mainly because they always go for sex and I'd be hugely amazed if they managed to join up that many dots.

All of them have very dubious pasts so Lauren at 17 being an ecofreedom fighter :) is possibly more noble than a killer Succubus/Valkyrie/Wolf pack mercenary/Egocentric Fae Manipulating/Daughter sacrificing King. I only point out that they are merely joining Lauren to the others on the redemption arc. They are all attoning for their pasts.

I called Bo/Dyson, Lauren/Crystal, Dyson/Kenzi (alt uni romance), pretty certain we'll get Bo/Lauren and Bo/Tamsin. As Kenzi once said
'let's collect the whole set.' I'm not sure of the wisdom of having Bo spin all these relationships at the same time. I'm glad Lauren has got out of her fugue state and I'm hoping she keeps her resolve re Bo because Bo adoration tends to detract from any character it bedazzles.

Finally, sorry don't mean to be insulting but what is it with people who want to create Sylvanian families out of adults. It's a soap so we can expect brothers and sisters to pop up out of the woodwork but this infantalising of Kenzi and Tamsin is creepy, okay Tamsin has to grow up to a full grown Valkyrie but when she is one, lets end that right now. Kenzi and Tamsin don't need Mom Bo and Dad Dyson, they're strong people, often stronger and wiser than the Succubus and Wolf as Kenzi said to Bo ...'You were never the Mom ...' and I'm sure she doesn't see Dyson as her Dad! The can all mentor and support each other, they don't need to be turned into children to big up Bo and Dyson that's disempowering and rather weird.
128. TheUberFan
@Kiersten...I'm bummed too we're not going to get Dyson. But did you see the promo pic?

Nadine Robb
129. cmm
Ahhh, thanks Kiersten. I didn't see that post, maybe I was doing something wrong when posting it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
130. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic - I know!! AND Vex BEING Vex!! This show improves exponentially when they don't work so hard to castrate the men.
131. TheUberFan
I don't sign on to this whole thing about men being overbearing anyway. Anytime Dyson shows even a hint of galantry, he's a horrible evil MAN who wants to keep women subservient and weak.

But if it were Bo, it'd be empowering. Or something. Why can't some folks just accept that a hero like Dyson will do heroic things and not attach weird misandristic overtones? Or do they believe in their hearts that men cannot be heroic, else they overshadow the women? That the very act of being a noble warrior is a fault in and of itself because it means by default that women need to be rescued?

It's weird. Dyson IS a hero. He will do what he can to be there for those he cares about and will rush in to save the day when he can and it doesn't mean he thinks less of women!!! GRR. That drives me nuts.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
132. Kiersten
@UberFaenatic - I couldnt agree more, and yes, the hypocrisy and animosity toward Dyson and his actions is rampant and galling.
"Or do they believe in their hearts that men cannot be heroic, else they overshadow the women? That the very act of being a noble warrior is a fault in and of itself because it means by default that women need to be rescued?"
Well, yes. Exactly. Its why they scream whenever Dyson "rescues" Bo or Kenzi or DL or Tamsin, but clamor that DL rescued everyone from Taft (insert eye roll here). And anyone that ingrained in that belief will never be swayed from it by reason or example and this is why they are only happy, when Dyson isn't in the episode and frequently call for KHR to leave the show altogether.
133. TheUberFan
I truly feel it's misandry. Pure and simple. They hate him because he has external piping.

But then I think some of them see Bo as really being a lesbian and simply dismiss the fact that she is bisexual, that she enjoys the company of men and women, fae and human.

And that one time with a goat. ;) *random Lost Girl joke from Season 1*
135. TheUberFan
Oh and this episode coming up is the one with the kiss b/w Bo and Lauren (they're wearing the same clothing in the kiss promo as this new ep promo).

And they're with the Morrigan. So...that fuels the possibility that the Morrigan is the one who has Lauren.

But...and I know this is out of left field...that does sound like Trick on the speaker. Could they be working together for some reason? Maybe Trick helped Evony get back her title?

If the Una Mens are after him, perhaps it's because he crossed lines to help the dark?

I'm just spitballing here. lol But if we're to turn everything on its head, then this isn't out of bounds at all.
136. TheUberFan
I don't think that's Bo's blood, btw. Here's another reason why.

When Lauren was talking to Dyson in Taft's compound, she talked about a blood sample she had. She could tell it was a mature succubus and that there was apparently something going on in the blood.

But then Taft interrupts and we don't hear the rest.

So...two points. 1. There's some sort of markers that indicate the blood is from a succubus and Lauren can recognize them, so if the blood in the dungeon she had been held in were that from a succubus, she should theoretically be able to tell.

2. The sense I got from what she said to Dyson was that there was something wrong in that blood. Well at that point, the only succubus there was Aife. So is there something wrong with Aife? If so, will they go back to that story at some point?

If the blood Lauren is testing IS Bo's, then perhaps whatever is inside her that made her blood declare a side made it unrecongizeable to Lauren. Still trying to figure this all out though...
137. Oh my
I rewatched Lauren talking about Mad Fae.
She said he's been feeding off family.
Nusi Dekker
138. NusiD
Does anyone find it really strange that Massimo has a lava pit in his kitchen? I mean, WTF? Or is it just me?

Dyson is acting differently than he did in the previous three seasons. He seems to have bonded with Tamsin, who is a Dark Fae. Hale gave up his position as the Ash, so his policy of Dark and Light working together would be null and void in the eyes of the Una Mens, methinks. Now he, a Light Fae, found and raised the reborn Tamsin, who knows she's Dark. What would the Una Mens think of the Light and Dark being in the same family, when in the first two seasons, there were many examples of Light and Dark Fae being severely punished for comingling. It looks like Dyson, who always obeyed the "rules" before, now breaks them right and left! I don't think that Bo being Dark will have any effect on Dyson, unless he gets written as a douche who only obeys the "rules" when they concern Bo.
Carmen Pinzon
139. bungluna
I still can't believe that Bo would meekly accept that she's dark, even if her blood says so.

We are almost to the middle of the season and still no sign of the Wanderer. Sigh. Anybody want to bet that he will show up, if at all, in the last two episodes?
140. nypinta
I wonder if Kenzi is confronting Bruce because he went back to work for Evony. Hahahah. Regardless of what Bo's blood might have chose, on what planet does she think Bo owes her any loyalty? A lot of the time Bo's "I'll do what I want" attitude bothers me, but in this case if she doesn't tell the Morrigan to go hang I'll be annoyed. *This* is the conflict that Bo should be fighting. The arbitrary bullshit that comes with fealty and loyalty supposedly owed to people that don't deserve it, manipulate it, or are corrupt against the interests of their own people. It's one thing for the fae to ask Bo to possible take a position in the human world to help keep their kind secret, as they do with Dyson and Hale, but after that, the way the fae order each other around, especially Evony, (and Vex during his short term as Morrigan) is insane and something I don't understand all of the fae being up in arms about. Instead, they play the politics and go along with it. Except when they couldn't, and those were the fae that usually turned to Bo in the first season. Like Will of the Wisp who lost his jewels. Or the luck fae when he lost his money and couldn't tell those above him what he lost because it would cost him too much.
141. invadetheblue
I thought this episode was great!

1. I was sort of confused by Bo's anger towards Kenzi for kissing Dyson. They weren't dating, haven't dated since S1, and they honestly didn't even remember Bo existed. I thought it was sort of bitchy to be angry at Kenzi, I mean, it was only one kiss.

2. I know Massimo said he needed the Valkyrie hair for his mother, but I don't know how reliable he is. I was almost wondering if Lauren is his sister since he's human. If so, he could have needed the hair for her? Maybe? IDK.

3. I really like Tansin/Bo, so I hope they don't turn out to be related. That said, I've seen some oddly romantic vibes for them to turn out to be siblings, but this is Lost Girl, so they could go anywhere.

4. I LOVE the Morrigan, so I really hope they don't do anything with her/to her. Sigh.

5. I missed Hale and Trick. I honestly like the Kenzi/Hale relationship. Are we ever going to get more? We've only gotten one kiss, and we're almost to episode 5.

6. Kenzi and Bo's spice girls dance = Best. Thing. Ever. That is all.

Anyways, I'm eagerly awating the next ep, because I want to see where they're going with the storylines in play.
Nadine Robb
142. cmm
@bungluna YES! I will take that. As for the promo I think she will work for Evony all the while trying to figure out how she became aligned. As EA said she's going to try like hell to undo it and she may just be successful. I also believe that when the wanderer shows up is when she will either be able to break it.

Also Bo chi sucking the una mens, i'm wondering if the effect will be something of what happened when she tried to chi suck the guard to help Tasmin? So she does he think and the chi goes right back to them. As for the Lauren clip, if Bo is nice to her this episode without even having it out with her, I will not be pleased.
143. nypinta
Sorry, I meant why aren't the fae up in arms about how their leadership does things. As for Dyson and the rules, the show isn't completely clear, but I think the Light and Dark aren't supposed to intermingle in relationships, but I think deals and working together can be done. So as long as he and Tamsin don't try getting married, I think they're fine. Although they should really come up with some compelling reasons why the fae insist on being split in two. What is the reason for having two nearly equal contentious parties if there can be a joining of them via couplings? And in the episode with the banshee, brothers were of the two clans, but I don't think that meant by law he couldn't have anything to do with his family. They shunned him when he chose Dark. I don't think it was because they had to. Yet another fae gets imprisoned for 80 years for wanting to marry a fae from the opposite clan? It seems the rules are as arbitrary as the fea in charge decides.
C. H.
144. SmurfFae
One thing I don't understand: Why is the episode titled 'Turn to Stone'?
A reference to the song by ELO with the lyrics 'I turn to Stone / When you're gone' - a reference to Kenzie's situation in the past weeks?
The fae elders turn to a stone gargoyle for help dealing with Bo? Unlikely. Massimo turned to stone in the lava pit...nah, he'll be back. Bo's expression in the last scene?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
145. Kiersten
Hey @invadetheblue and welcome! thanks for adding your voice to the conversation.
147. drusilla_doll
@invadetheblue : Welcome to the forum, it's always great to get fresh perspectives on these new episodes. I, too, was confused by Bo's barbed quip considering the fact that she's been all focused on Lauren last season and Dyson doesn't owe her anything - and yep, there were extenuating circumstances. But as is quite clear, Bo is a little off kilter, less empathetic, more selfish. Even if it's only to a small degree, the writers are inserting clues for us to come to this conclusion.

Massimo seemed to revert into an immature version of himself. I do suspect that Evony is his mother, that would explain his snark/neediness when talking to her, and her deliberate disregard.

As for Trick being Lauren's captor, we've seen no evidence that he knows of Karen Beattie. The only person who did learn about this hidden identity was Evony. I am far more inclined that Evony used some kind of voice disguise, maybe even modifying recorded voice of Trick to throw Lauren off until she decided to reveal herself. Why else would DL think it was Light Fae BS unless the voice sounded like Trick and she thought Hale had imprisoned her as the Ash (she doesn't know he was deposed).

@Kiersten: I'm pretty sure we won't get much Dyson, if anything at all in this next ep. Tweets around this time indicated KHR was first at a convention and then went straight to some kind of vacation.

Of course the writers have to completely remove him in order to advance Bo/DL stuff. I can't help but want to roll my eyes at the obvious maneuvering. Dark Fae party? Well I guess that means Dyson, Hale and Trick can't go.

Sadly, we just have to accept that the triangle bangs on, even when it makes no sense. I don't doubt Bo will be all doe-eyed and wanting to reconnect. What gives me hope, however, is that while I think Lauren will feel that pull and long to take Bo back, she's the one who has realised just how incompatible they really were. How unhappy and unfulfilled she was. What's changed to reverse that? Nothing.

Plus, I do wonder if we are headed for some Valkubus. RS is adorable and I would love to see her get some action, but obviously not right now while she's still mentally immature.

I am not at all opposed to Bo being a free agent and loving who she damned well pleases. Perhaps this is what will happen, she'll want Dyson, Lauren and Tamsin and sleep with others like the two girls she wakes up with. Since she's been declared dark and is potentially compromised by her father or possessed etc, it stands to reason that her romantic choices might be selfish and all over the map.

@Uberfaenatic: I do think that some comments border on misandry, which I am sure others would object to being called out for such. But I've seen ppl openly wish for Dyson to be castrated, killed off, beaten, tortured and subjected other such horrors because he apparently threatens their designated ship. He's called a dog and jokes are made about his wolf-shifting nature which are truly nasty in tone. Do we denigrate Bo as a brainless slut ruled by her vagina? Why does Dyson get raked over the coals for sometimes leading with his Fae wolf nature?
148. drusilla_doll
Oh, and I have been pondering how Bo's blood could choose a side for her.

I am a bit hazy on details though...can someone help me out? Bo's dad is likely Dark Fae, right? What about Aife? Did she switch sides when she betrayed the peace effort Trick was mediating and led a rebellion army? I know that Trick felt that he had no option but to turn her over to the Dark in order to avoid a war.

It seems to me that Fae are expected to stay in the same faction as their clan/family. So generally they choose the same side, probably due to heavy expectation and pressure etc. However, Fae have (rarely, though) chosen a different side, causing some fallout within their own clan, possibly even disowning?

What I am getting at is that I don't think the Fae are as free to choose the Light or Dark as their traditional ceremonies would imply.

Perhaps one's blood heritage heavily pushes a person to one faction. How did Tamsin know instinctively that she was Dark?

But occasionally anomalies occur and Fae chose against their heart or blood for other reasons.

Or, the theory that Bo is being unduly influenced by her father and her blood (or spirit) has been changed without her consent could be correct. Hmm, it's interesting to see where things will go. I am looking forward to more scenes with the Dark Fae faction. Just wish that didn't cut out three of our male characters in terms of possible interaction.

Upon first watch of episode 3, I felt that Bo hearing voices urging her to kill everyone was not due to the jumbly. She had her blue eyes as I recall and was briefly battling her hunger.
149. TheUberFan
Because empowerment. Or something.

I submit to you all, however, that if you need to denigrate or hate on another in order to feel empowered, that you're idea of empowerment is skewed.

Bo is awesome because she does what needs to be done. She puts herself out there and doesn't play by other people's ridiculous skewed rules. She's passionate and strong and heroic.

But she's not all of those things because she is a woman. She is all of those things because she is Bo.

And she doesn't do them at the expense of the male heroes on the show, nor does she put them down in order to look good. So why should others feel the need to attack the male heroes for being heroic? It doesn't make women look bad for a men to save them when they need saving, any more than it makes men look bad when women save them.

It does however IMHO make the people who make those kinds of declarations look small minded and hateful and frankly desperate.
Suzanne Metaxas
150. SuzyM
The law says light and dark can't have sex or marry. I would assume because you would be having a problem deciding where your allegiance lay. I would believe it would be the same for fraternizing with humans.

Dyson has broken no rules in anything he has been doing. He would not normally. The only thing I believe that will make him cross that line is Bo.
151. nypinta
Or Bo could just take over as Morrigan... Seems Vex claimed the title based soley on Evony supposedly naming him as her sucessor. I don't think the Dark have the same type of ceremonies and trials as the Light to be a leader. I think someone just takes the power. Unless Evony has the same kind of amulet that the Dark King had to keep Aife from harming him, the woman is toast if she pushes Bo to far.
152. TheUberFan
In the promo for next week, it looks as though Vex has Bo in a choke hold and is doing something to her...injecting her with something maybe? Can anyone else tell?
153. drusilla_doll
On rewatching the promo, I don't see any injection, just grabbing her around the shoulders and he's wearing fingerless gloves of some sort. Possibly black denim or leather LOL, because...Vex.
154. TheUberFan
Haha yes. But she does look particularly pained...her expression I mean. And usually Vex isn't hands on like that. He lets his Mesmer do the talking for him. I wonder what's up there...

Evony has tasked Bo to get Vex...and she's doing it. Why? Is it what Evony tells her in the preview that Bo's human loved ones are in danger? Bo says she can protect them...but maybe Evony makes it clear that she can't or that she can do something Bo cannot do...or she threatens them with something that Bo can't help them with.
155. TheGardner
In regards to Dyson keeping things from Bo I was referring to Aife's return and whatever went down with Trick and his "losing" Lauren, concerns about her safety and not sharing them with Bo. I'd be pissed if someone had info on my mother and the person I was in love with being in danger and kept me in the dark about it, but I guess that's just me.

As for Bo, I have no issue with the woman getting hers any more than I did with Lauren in the previous episode. Fuck long, fuck hard, and fuck often. My problem is when she uses someone that she supposedly cares about as a fucktoy.

And fanservice come on, you guys kill me! The unicorn, the wall bush, Tamsin asking Bo about love, Ali Liebert, the attempted recreation of the DyBo sex from Vexed, Kenzi's hair comments about Lauren, Denzi, etc. It is not limited to BoLo.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
156. Kiersten
There is definitely some random fan service to all factions. Kyson was a major fanwank for sure. But only one faction gets character and plot totally retconned and altered to make it viable and then has two whole seasons dedicated to perpetuating a relationship that it then goes to (ironically, organic) pains to prove doesnt work for either party. That's major bias and preference and frankly, I'd respect the show more if it'd own up to it instead of constantly claiming they don't take notes from those fans. Then I could move on and stop wishing and hoping and looking and waiting.
Suzanne Metaxas
157. SuzyM
@Gardner you are entitled to your opnion be that what it may. You are a Dyson hater and that is all there is to it.

I'm glad the show is starting to pull all the threads together :) hopefully they will not string us along until the last episode on things cause I hate that.
158. TheUberFan
I'm puzzled why the necklace Bo found was such a big deal. First off, it seemed to be a "just because" gift...which we don't have any sign that either of them engaged in.

Regardless.... Lauren did not break up with Bo because she didn't love her. So a sweet card and a conveniently hidden away "just because" gift changes...what exactly? Not a thing.

It might make their reunion this next week more emotional since Bo had a recent reminder of why she cares for her...but frankly that just is a further reminder that their relationship was tragic and doomed to fail because they did and do have feelings for each other but are entirely incompatible.
160. nypinta
@drusilla_doll Bo's father was Dark. I don't think Aife was. She was Light and hated the Dark so much because they were responsible for her mother's death just before Trick wrote the Laws. So after he wrote them Aife couldn't abide by them (guess Bo's apple didn't fall far from THAT tree...) and she attacked the Dark. I think she did say she registered as Dark when she came to town to spy on Bo as Saskia but she was hiding from Trick so... that was probably a lie. I think Aife is just as unaligned as Bo is, but with greater anger issues. If Aife hadn't tried to kill the Ash but had come out of hiding, I could see her living a life like Bo's, but in style of course, because no way in hell could the Dark demand her back since the King that she was turned over too also broke the law by keeping her prisoner instead of executing her, like he was supposed to. So her debt, I would think, had been paid. But I don't see her giving fealty to the Light anymore either. What would the fae do to one that had claimed a side but then declared themselves unaligned? I'm surprised more fae haven't done so after Bo, actually.
161. drusilla_doll
@TheGardner: I agree that there has been fanservice to several factions of the fandom. However, I do think that Doccubus fans have been serviced the most. Especially by EA who even came to chats and left messages specifically in response to their concerns.

Pretty much everyone else just gets trolled.

It's why a lot of us - while pleased by an upswing in Bo/Dyson interaction and Bo/Tamsin interaction - remain very wary and on guard about the show. We're prepared for more reversals and walk backs in order to undermine every pairing but the Bo/DL one. Even though the writers, imo, did a pretty good job last year in showing us why it would never work for the long term. Sometimes love just really isn't enough to sustain a relationship and Doccubus was a prime example of that. Still, that pairing has had a huge amount of service over the past 3 years. It's time for Bo to acknowledge her feelings for Dyson for a change. I think everyone (including you :P) is tired of it just being Dyson who expresses how he feels.
162. TheUberFan
Actually @nypinta, Aife was dark. She told Bo she was when she was pretending to be Saskia.
163. nypinta
@TheGardner, Bo knows Aife is out in the world. She's the one that set that crazy woman free along with all the other fae. She also saw her get stabbed by Taft. I find it odd that she hasn't asked about her, so I can't get too upset that no one is telling her they saw her... but it's Trick, again, not telling her about Aife. Trick didn't say what happened between him and Aife. He just explained that Aife had attacked him to explain the wound on his arm. The chick is nuts. I don't see why Trick is hesitant to tell Bo anyhow. Exactly how mad can she get? Trick's her father, so it's not like Bo is the only one with a relation claim FFS. As for Lauren, she wasn't his to not lose, for one. She's an adult that took off on her own. He isn't responsible for her, at all. The fact he's actually concerened and doing anything to find out if she's OK says a whole lot more about him than not expressing his concerns to Bo when he doesn't actually know if anything is wrong. Plus, he had baby Tamsin helping him search her phone records, something he has to know he can't guarantee Tamsin would stay mum about so I don't think he did so with any intention of not telling Bo. At this point, no one knows that Lauren is in danger. They just know that Lauren ran, of her own violition. She called Dyson once because the spell wore off, not because they were in constant communication while she was on the run and he was her contact point till she could come in from the cold. So how can he keep something he doesn't know from Bo? And seeing as she's in the next episode, it's not going to be an issue.
164. nypinta
She told Bo that because she was lying about who she was. If she claimed to be Light there would be a chance that Bo would mention her to Trick and Trick would know she was in town. The Dark killed her mother. I can't see Aife aligning with them. She wanted to destroy both sides, the Light and the Dark. That was why she attacked the Ash. Pretend to be Dark, attack the Light, start a war. Trick knew that was her intent, which is why he and Dyson were looking for her. (And one reason why Bo claiming that her confronting Aife at the end of S1 was "her fight" is ludicrous. She'd been in the fae world for only months and her issues with her mother trump Trick and Dyson trying to protect the fae against all out war? I don't think so! But, whatever. The hero of the show is always right.)
165. nypinta
I'm changing my name to nypintypo. Because WTF? A double negative? *sigh* I said, "she wasn't his to not lose" and of course I meant, "she wasn't his to lose".
166. TheUberFan
Do you know that conclusively @nypinta? Or is that just a theory? Because I thought Bo had wondered at one point about her lineage and mentioned that her mother was dark and that her father most certainly was, etc. I could have sworn they established Aife was dark.

I don't know of any evidence that suggested that Aife was light. And I would think that Aife would pledge fealty to the dark in rebellion of her father anyway.
167. nypinta
When Trick is telling Bo about Aife, (skipping the part where she was his daughter), he says that she refused to forgive the Dark once the war was ended by his laws, meaning to me that she was Light at that time. She was handed over to the Dark by the Light per the new laws, which also says to me she was Light at that time. Trick is Light. Her mother was Light. But when she is talking to Bo about her plans to destroy all the fae, it was definitely a plan of a woman that had no fealty to either side. She was not the Morrigan's, nor was she a servant of the Ash. So her telling Bo she was Dark when they first met, to me, was a manipulation only and a way to keep Bo from telling Trick or Dyson about her.
169. nypinta
Life as a fae would be much easier if they would just borrow the damn sorting hat from Hogwarts to suss out which fae belongs to which clan...
Carmen Pinzon
172. bungluna
All the confusion and contradictory info is clear proof that the people developing this world suck at world-building. Good thing somebody did a good job creating it in the first place, given our collective fascination!

If Bo shrugs and takes WonderLauren back again I'm going to blow a gasket. WL finally grew a spine, please don't let her come back whimpering and have Bo ride to the rescue, again.

Bo gave up on Dyson and his lost love very easily, imo (I haven't forgiven her for that yet). She takes offence at some things and then just ignores other (worse imo) offenses. The way the writers have Bo getting snitty with Kenzi and other things is just too arbitrary. I don't have enough faith in them to believe they can pull such acomplicated thread off.
174. TheGardner
@drusilla_doll - I could make an argument about how Bo had to be retconned to season 1 status or go "dark" to facilitate DyBo, but it doesn't really matter I think we can both agree the fan service crap gets old. Just tell your damn story people. Please let Dyson and Bo get back together, then maybe he can STFU about his stupid love. Three episodes in a row now, as soon as he remembered Bo that's what he became all about. It is so annoying. I actually liked the character in season 1, hell I liked him in 4x01, but this "love" crap just kills him.

@nypinta - Maybe I missed something, but I thought that was the whole point in 4x02 during Dyson's conversation with Trick; to plant the seed of doubt and imply that he was once again keeping things from Bo. If that was all about the Kenzi-kiss then I call lame, no I call high school.
175. TheGardner
@drusilla_doll - Sorry, I meant facilitate the Dyson/Bo hook-up.
C. H.
177. SmurfFae
@nypinta / @UberFaenatic: In the season 1 finale Trick tells Bo, that Aife was once a member of his clan, meaning she used to be light fae.
It hasn't been established yet, but I don't think fae can change sides. But we might learn more about that issue very soon.
I hope we'll see Aife soon. She was the only one who realized Bo was missing (enabling the search for her), so she should be given some credit.
178. TheUberFan
@SmurfFae and @nypinta... that it something. I can't believe I didn't remember that. And you're right, I don't think you have the option to change sides.

I've been giving thought to Bo's beef with Kenzi in Turn to Stone. I don't think it had anything to do with the kiss itself with Dyson. I think that it was just one of several things Kenzi kept from Bo...and that especially after she just was musing about why everyone lies to her all the time it was just tough on her.

The issue is that Kenzi behaved in a manner that threw Bo...with the twig and stealing from Trick...but the one with Dyson resonated the most of the three for Bo.

But it wasn't the kiss itself. It was as Bo said...her frustration at feeling completely in the dark about what happened and that of all things she was confused about, she never thought Kenzi would be on that list.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
179. Kiersten
I admit I haven't thought about it that extensively, but @nypita's deconstruction of Aoife's allegience tracks. Also, in the Fae Day episode of season one, we learned that once you choose a side, you cannot undo that. Remember the one brother had chosen Dark so it was discussed how that was a permanent choice & TeenTamsin reiterated it when she said how a Past Tamsin had chosen for her and she was, essentially, stuck with it. Dyson replied "well, maybe you'll get the chance to choose again," so perhaps there's something in the upcoming story related to Bo's Dark issues that will reset that axiom.
181. nypinta
It could be that Bo reacts harsher than she normally would because after finding out Lauren is actually Karen has her more sensative, but there is a difference between an omission and a lie. I just know how I reacted to it. Especially since Kenzi didn't betray anyone with Dyson, and last season Bo kissed Tamsin while under the influence of something fae and she didn't tell Lauren. (Tamsin did, but she did it in a way that made Lauren think it was a choice Bo made, which is why she slapped her.) But I dont' recall Bo lamenting about the kiss to anyone as if she had done anything wrong. Bit of a double standard at play.

@TheGardner, I don't understand why they had Trick and Dyson make the comments that they did. It was silly and I think it was a misdirection. Because unlike Bo, I don't think everything is actually her business. And Dyson's comment might have been out of guilt at the time but he's realized that it wasn't a betrayal at all, hence his new attitude about it. Or there is something completely different that the writers will drop on us all later like a lead ballon. But I do wish that Trick would stop keeping things so close to the vest. Or grow a backbone with regards to telling Bo stuff. He was attacked by a crazy women. He took action. Bo dropped her off a staircase! If her stabbed her and she ran off, Bo should be told. If he's got her in one of the cells because she's still crazy pants.... well, that I'm not so sure of. Because Bo will just take it upon herself to get her out. And she's still crazy pants! It would be nice, if it the case that she is in his cellar, that he tells Bo and if she tries to get her out he stands his ground and tells her to back the fae off. But, *spoilers* (??), the actress that plays her has said that she won't be on the show at all this season except for the opening episode. So I don't think she's in his cellar. I think she's just gone.

I kind of feel like I should state for the record that I don't have a problem with Lauren keeping Nadia from Bo either. Bo complains that people keep lying to her, (and since her entire life was a lie for a long time, I get her point), but there are things that just aren't her business too. The only reason Lauren not telling Bo about Nadia that bothers me is when it was clear that Lauren had feelings for Bo and was actively pursuing her, to the point of degrading Dyson to Bo & going out on dates with her under the guise of helping her learn to curb her feeding. And then when Nadia was "cured" Lauren's eye rolling attitude towards Nadia in front of Bo was kind of ugh. It did not endear her to me, is all. The same with I understand why Trick and Dyson didn't tell Bo about Aife right away. They knew Aife was a threat to the fae. A huge threat. And Bo was an unknown entity. But Dyson got to know her and he argued against his king (a big deal in the fae world) to tell Bo the truth and then was going to anyhow. I'm more concerned that Lauren would keep a past like the accidental killing of others from Bo since Bo has had issues with guilt over the deaths she herself caused. (Of course Lauren couldn't have told Bo since she didn't know about it until just a few episodes ago.... The moral of that story is, if you're going to give a character a hidden past, maybe not chose one that makes the character look like a schmuck for not telling the one person that would empathize while you have them in scenes treating that other character as a dangerous thing, m'kay?)
182. nypinta
Regarding the promo... I think maybe the Morrigan is warning Bo about the Una Mens. Just becasue they are no longer after Bo since they consider her alligned now doesn't mean she's safe from them all together, and I think Bo is digging in her heals about following Evony's orders (as I would hope she would!), and she's telling Bo that if they think Bo is a trouble maker still that they'll hurt everyone around her. So, points for the Morrigan if that is the case.
183. nypinta
Last thing, I promise! New theory: Acacia is Massimo's mother. He needed the hair to help her grow her hand back.
188. Darthfaeder
@nypinta I have a theory about Acacia's hand. We all know that Acacia is returning in episode 11. While it is possible that they put some sort of hook prosthetic on Linda Hamilton's hand wouldn't it be cool if Acacia tells Tamsin that she stole a hand of a dead women't corpse and made it look like Acacia's hand so that Tamsin would do her job? That way Linda doesn't have to walk around with some dumb prosthetic hook on her hand. As far as the Una Mens goes yeah they could go after everyone that Bo loves if she doesn't comply with their wishes. As far as who, how, when the Dark Fae leader is choosen is interesting. Why would the Una Mens care that Vex took over for Evony as the Morrigan, if there is no ceremony or some steps that have to be taken in order to seize the power of the Morrigan?
Susan White
189. whiskeywhite
@UberFaenatic - great catch!
When Lauren was talking to Dyson in Taft's compound, she talked about a blood sample she had. She could tell it was a mature succubus and that there was apparently something going on in the blood.
I think you're right that this supports the idea that the blood is Aife's. And needing a cure would explain why Trick would be involved (he still cares for his daughter).

@NusiD -- "Does anyone find it really strange that Massimo has a lava pit in his kitchen?" It's not only you. :-)

I will be so glad to see dear Bruce back.

Welcome @invadetheblue! I like the Morrigan as well. Did you check out the fabulous medieval dress and hairstyle in the promo?

Reading the Showcase blog can be fun at times. Right now they're laughing at Dyson for promising Bo "only" two orgasms. I pity the male readers.

@nypintypo -- OMG, a double negative! That's it. You're out of here girl. Must uphold the standards. :-)
190. drusilla_doll
Well, considering he kept Bo well fed and happy in that department (judging by her scene with Kenzi afterwards) while Lauren left her so starving she was doubled over and scarfing down protein bars/chocolate...maybe they shouldn't be casting stones? ;)
Susan White
191. whiskeywhite
I was thinking the same thing @d_d but restrained myself. :-)
Carmen Pinzon
192. bungluna
Re: Massimo's mother, I just don't see the Morrigan in that role.

First, I can't picture her getting pregnant by a (ugh!) human.

Second, how could she have bourned him without somebody knowing? The fae rulers seem to be surrounded by an entourage at all times, just like medieval human rulers.

As for Aeife, I have questions:

1. Did Trick make the current Dark and Light Fae thing up with his laws?
2. If so, Aeife would not have been either Dark or Light. She would have had to chose after Trick gave her up to the Dark Fae King, no?
3. A Dark Fae King pre-supposes a Light Fae King. Is Trick this personage, but in disguise to keep himself safe?
4. And if Trick is not the DFK, is he neutral? He keeps a way station/sanctuary where all are welcome, so maybe he is neither fish nor fowl.
193. nypinta
I belive the Light and Dark exisisted before Trick wrote the laws. They were at war, which is why he wrote them. I don't know how to answer 2 and 3. Trick has answered to The Ash, which makes him Light. But he does run the Way Station which is supposed to be neutral, but not him. I don't know how they decide who runs something like that, because it's a pretty big deal, IMO. But it is seen as menial so I bet no Dark ever wanted the gig.
Nusi Dekker
194. NusiD
Good article, bungluna! But it just shows that LG is one of many shows with lazy writers...

BTW, I always thought Trick was light. He was so proud when his protoge Hale became the new Ash. Hmmm....Hale's platform was re-uniting the Light and Dark Fae...
Suzanne Metaxas
195. SuzyM
Trick's wife was killed in the fight between the Dark and the Light Fae, that is why he wrote the laws and forced the peace. Trick has always been light.
196. stacymd2
@bungluna: Thanks for the link. That was an interesting blog post. I can only wonder what that writer thinks of A Game of! Lost Girl has been setting up a lot in the first four episodes (STILL NO WANDERER!!!), but 401 - 404 were highly entertaining to me. The overall season arc is moving along. Maybe I am just use to soaps where things take months and/or years to unfold. Even though I really thing EA is setting things up for Doccubus redux, I am still looking forward to seeing the episodes about Kenzi, Dyson/Trick and Vex's backgrounds. Also, Bruce!!! I think some "set up" is nesscessary, especially in SyFy where world building can make or break a story. What Lost Girl doesn't do well is world building--and continuity. Look at how many questions we have about basic Fae culture/powers/etc. that we should already know. It's been three seasons and we still don't know Kenzi's last name, how Trick/Dyson/Hale/Tamsin & other non lethal (to humans) Fae feed, what exactly is the difference between Light and Dark, what are the backgrounds Trick/Hale/Dyson/Kenzi, what was the great Fae War about and how did it start, why are there only two sides to chose from, etc.
197. nypinta
They did sort of just jump into the story in season one. But then the show became a procedural and the season arc stories alwasy were put on the back burner until the last few episodes and it became a show about set up. I first season really should have been used to learn about the world of the fae, but Bo never seemed to interested in learning anything. And with the extended season the second year they had extra episodes where they could have dug into everyone's backstory a bit. One of my favorite shows is FarScape and in the first season there was an episode each for the other characters besides John so you to know who D'Argo, Zhaan, and Aeryn Sun were. And I get the feeling that no 'show bible' was created and it's very much a make it up as you go along type deal. This season, although in some ways frustrating because they've dropped the Wanderer stuff for now, it does seem tighter and as if each episode has a place in an overall story.
Carmen Pinzon
199. bungluna
This season does seem to be better ploted, overall. And yet, we still have no Wanderer. They've thrown out the Una Mens, of whom we've gotten precious little, and everybody has conveniently forgotten about the train and the Wanderer.

Last Season, Taft would have made a great big bad, better than the Garuda, if they had employed him throughout the season. I know they have a limited budget, but leaving the big bad for the last two episodes is just lazy story telling, imo.
Katherine Bloom
200. lsbloom
Agree. Trick is light. In episode 2, Dyson introduces Trick as one of the light fae elders.

I thought Dyson "There's a lot of things she shouldn't find out" was more of a "lots of crap went down when she didn't exist, that shouldn't of if she had existed, and we're better off if it all just went away." Not, I'm planning to delibrately lie, but more of I'm going to pretend it didn't happen and hope for the best because no one is gonna be happy remembering and arguing about life choices made when not considering Bo as part of the scenario. Whatever they did that might have effected Bo, has no relevance to Bo because they did it when she was nonexistant. But that might not lessen the hurt for Bo. If she didn't exist when they did it, it's not necessarily her business now.

I don't care how many secret girlfriends Lauren had, they weren't Bo's business until Lauren slept with her and said "This is about us." If Bo wasn't allowed to have residual feelings for her past lovers, then Lauren was obligated to say that she had girlfriend important enough to talk to everyday and sacrifice her life for. Dyson and Trick have lives and resposibilities that don't include Bo. And they had every right to not tell Bo everything they know about everything the minute she walks into town. Especially because she was so unpredictable. Once Dyson was willing to admit he cared, that's when the conflict started and that's when you start to see him argue with Trick. Partly because of loyalty, partly to make a determination, but mainly because Aoife wasn't Dyson's secret and he had very little knowledge of the situation. He didn't know about Luanne, he didn't know what Aoife looked like, he didn't know she was Trick's daughter, he didn't know where she was or how to find her (which was all Bo really wanted to know). People should be able to have secrets. Lying to keep those secrets hidden for your own good when it hurts people, that's what I dislike.
204. nypinta
@Isbloom, that is exactly how I feel about it.

From a story point, the fact that Trick and Dyson knew something about Bo was established from the first episode, (and they even hinted that something more like some prophecy about her arrival, but that could just be the way I heard it), all of Dyson's actions make sense throughout the season, as did her reactions including Bo being upset about it, up until the part where she decides confronting Aife is her job and they walked right past the part where Aife raped Dyson, but whatever. (No, I'm not getting over that anytime soon.) Where as I don't think Lauren's backstory had been decided upon so she ends up looking like a jerk when they did reveal it. However, seeing as that's the story they went with, Lauren's actions stand and she was wrong in her pursuit of Bo. And I do not like that they tried to retcon her and Bo's relationship as "love at first sight" either, especially because of Nadia. It jsut made the whole things worse, in my opinion. I do like that they are taking into account things from the first season and having characters finally come to conclusions about them, like Lauren finally realizing how wrong she was for the "spybang".

In some ways I feel like the writers are both trolling the fans and have taken notes (as much as they say they haven't) or they brought on new writers that have been paying attention to the show and saw the flaws from the outside and are attempting to fix them. I find it funny that in one episode they have Dyson putting Kenzi in charge of Tamsin and I swear they just sat back and watched the implosion about Dyson and knew that was going to happen so they had Bo do the same thing to Dyson in the very next episode. Funny thing is I didn't see the same people who were complaining about Dyson when he got Kenzi to babysit say a thing when Bo did it to him. I can't prove it, but it's like they did it on purpose.

I don't like the feeling that they're going to pull some fast one regarding Dyson and Bo. I'm not keen on that comment by Dyson to Trick, but I read it as about the kiss and other things that happened during the spell. But they can always use it to pull some horrible secret out of the air to drop in between them, which would be both lame and a cheat.

I'm reading snippets about upcomming epidsodes and SPOILERS: there is the one where they have to go into Dyson's mind, and I just read there is another episode where it seems like everyone has forgotten Bo, but she's there. Huh.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
205. Kiersten
Wouldnt it be great if the one where Bo & DL go into Dyson's mind is when Bo finally comprehends the depth & breadth of his love for her & finally allows her feelings for him to be raw & out in the open for everyone to see when she goes all "I've been a blind, stupid bitch about/toward him" and DL finally understands that, in comparison, she ultimately never had/has a chance?

What, I can't dream sequence too?
Suzanne Metaxas
206. SuzyM
Go Kiersten! We so need to see that scene! It is way over due that Bo admits she has been the ass hat and that she loves Dyson! He has done more for her than anyone else and she just continues to take with out giving back. How long is she going to punish him for giving up everything to help her and save her life??? He was willing to give up his wolf! Everything he is because he loves her that deeply! And she has the stones to hate him for it? Really? I'm starting to not like Bo. She is a self centered, egotistical bitch!
Nusi Dekker
207. NusiD
I was looking at those promo pics of the "Dark Fae party" where Bo, Evony, and Lauren are standing together. It seems, from DL's body language and expression, that she doesn't seem to remember her former romantic relationship with Bo, that she is standing at Evony's side as a servant waiting for orders. She may remember Bo as a friend only. It would make sense with the promo vid of Bo kissing DL but DL NOT kissing her back, and the ice cream scene where DL stares at Bo like she is just noticing for the first time how hot Bo is and getting her new BFF Dyson to check Bo out. I suppose that Bo is still enough in love with Lauren for Dyson to wait until Bo lets go of that romantic love and commit to Dyson again. Of course the writers will drag all the ships over the coals.
208. nypinta
I read Lauren's body language more as uncomfortable because I don't think Bo realizes that Lauren works for Evony yet. And although Lauren still loves Bo, I don't think she's willing to just let everything from the last season go and jump back into anything with her. It seems more like Bo forgot that they broke up, and I don't mean magically forgotten. I just mean caught up in seeing Lauren again forgotten. Plus Lauren has just gotten dragged back into a situation she doesn't want and I think she's trying to keep her emotional distance because she is hoping she can split at the first opportunity again.

I also think Bo is used to people fawning over her. She said it right to Lauren the first time they met that she used to people commenting on her beauty and blah blah blah, so her attitude towards Dyson doesn't really surprise me. The fact he (along with Kenzi and Lauren) can look past that to who Bo is when push comes to shove is what makes Bo a better person. But I'm also a bit on board with Suzy. Sometimes Bo just ticks me off.

I also think we are finally going to get some nuance out of Evony. I think we are going to see her as the typical evil Dark Fae leader but also see her have actual concern for someone besides herself due to the power play going on in the fae world right now. A bit of who we saw in the very first episode when she was trying to convince Bo to choose Dark. I, for one, welcome that. I love evil Morrigan, meddling Morrigan, scene chewing Morrigan, but real character Morrigan wouldn't suck.
Suzanne Metaxas
209. SuzyM
I think what annoys me most about what EA says about the show is that she always points out how much it means to the LGBT community but never takes into consideration what it means to other people. I for one loved this show because it had lovers who were willing to commit for life. Somehow in this world spending your life with one person has become something to laugh at. I have been with my husband since 1966 and have never wanted to be with anyone else. I don't consider myself daft in the head but according to most TV shows I am because no one could be in love for someone for that long. WRONG I am and I always will be in love with my husband. And I don't think I'm a fool for believing in "till death do us part" So when Dyson confessed his love for Bo and told her that wolves mate for life I became a real fan of the show. Unfortunately the writers seem determined to stomp all over this idea and make those of us who were rooting for Dyson and Bo to make it through the trials and tribulations heart sick. I personally am almost ready to move on and find something else to watch if they keep putting wedges between them. There is only so many times your heart can be kicked before you chuck it all in and move on!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
210. Kiersten
I noticed that in the more recently released photos, DL does not look receptive to Bo's advances but I've also noticed that Bo gets that scary predatory look after she kisses DL.

I do not think DL doesn't remember Bo (deliberate double negative there, @nypita). I do think she's moved on, hence the sexy times with Crystal. She is the one who broke up with Bo and then cemented the end of their relationship by leaving her Fae life behind to go off with Taft. Yeah, it turned out to be a major clusterfuck of a decision, and it's not like she doesn't still have feelings for Bo, but as far their relationship is concerned, DL has moved on. I think the car wash scene is about lust and DL being caught up in the moment but ZP said that it was deliberate, not gratuitous, and would make sense when we saw the whole thing. With our luck, it'll be something from the Dyson mind walk and suddenly what everyone thought was sexy fun when it was DL's response will become sexist misongyny if it turns out to be Dyson's subconscious.

At this point, I don't think any further discussion of who remembers what is needed. Everyone's memory is completely restored with the exception of Bo and Dyson's memory wipe of the train.
C. H.
211. SmurfFae
@nypinta: Continuuing our discussion from last week's thread: After having contemplated season 3, I've come to see a few things your way:

In most of season 3 Kenzie looks like a wimp, and she and Bo are totally disconnected:
First she can't tell Bo about the norn-rash, retreats to the background, giving DL center stage, then she gets kenzinapped by the kitsune. She's hardly any help as her wingman in 'There's Bo Playe Like Home', absent in ep. 3.08 and Bo's potentially abandoned pet in 3.09.
In 'Delinquents' she literally doesn't have Bo's back, rather trusting in a gang of delinquents, of whom she more or less gets one killed, because of her bad decisions.
('Adventures in Fae-bysitting' is a statistical outlier, showing Kenzie&Bo investigating together like old times, but Kenzie is hardly more than Bo's wingman.)

In 'Hail Hale' Bo knocks Kenzie out when she tries to help, letting the dysonnappers get away. And then she dooms Bo through her kiss, before beeing snatched by Evony. Because Kenzie's survival instincts are just not good enough to notice all the warnings, her life is in danger, that each and every one of her friends giver her. Something like: "Why do you want me to go? I thought we were friends. (Sniff.)" "Your life is in danger! Run!" "Why? don't you like me anymore? (Sniff.)"

I thought in 'Confaegion', that her approving of DL made sense in the context of the show: Both worked together to solve a problem (pigs & parasites), and in tv-logic that is enough to make 'allies who show grudgingly respect towards each other' out of 'people who can't stand each other because they are somewhat polar opposites'. You can't argue with tv-logic.
Of course, that had the long-lasting effect of BoLo. DL became more of a
central character. Kenzie became more of a background charakter / comedic relief. I'm not sure if Kenzie would have had a better story arc without BoLo. But since DL became more of central character at the same time as Kenzie lost importance, I understand that people feel they are connected. (Especially since Kenzi gave DL her stamp of approval, talking to Bo.)

Kenzie's physical weekness/inability/limits have been amply adressed this season. (Another kenzienapping was averted barely.) But also her craftiness, sleuth-skills and rune-magic. Her speech to Bo showed her frustration. But after they talked things out, I have high hopes for this season.
And I'm looking forward to seeing what Dyson is going to teach her.
213. nypinta
I was cool with Kenzi and Lauren bonding and Kenzi coming to approve of Lauren, but it seemed it came at the expense of how Kenzi normally is, and in the conversations during the episode, Kenzi wasn't given the same props with the exception of one moment after Kenzi laid traps and sorted all the stuff they could possibly need Lauren gave a curt yet surprised nod of approval. And in the scene Kenzi holds her tongue, which is unusual for her even if Bo said anything previous. She didn't for Dyson in S1 even though Bo was back on good terms with him after he let her catch him with the barmaid. And now that I'm thinking about it the difference to how Dyson and Lauren individually react to Kenzi is telling. Kenzi confronts Dyson about his crappy behavior and he just accepts it, because she isn't wrong. Kenzi confronts Lauren about her crappy behavior and Lauren turns it around to Kenzi being jealous of not being the only human in Bo's life. Dyson has never been depicted as talking about Kenzi to Bo in a negative light yet we know that Lauren has. But for some reason only Dyson is called 'territorial' or manipulative about trying to get Bo seperated from her friends. I'm a little baffled by that now. It's like there are three shows. 1) The show that is, 2) the show that certain fans see via their ship, and 3) the show the writers think it is. Maybe that's why of any show I watch its the one I can disect the most. There's three times as much stuff!
214. drusilla_doll
Yep. Dyson is territorial and manipulative and moving in on Bo inappropriately and yet Lauren never is. Hmmm. I remember Lauren telling Bo point blank that she 'could do better'. Lauren stipulating 'No Dyson' for feeds wasn't territorial? She admitted it herself, to Dyson she had thought he was the enemy.

But apparently Dyson still hates humans?! And some people can't understand why he'd be willing to teach/train Kenzi? Um, hello have we been watching the same show for 4 seasons? Yes, in the beginning he was very Faeist. He had his set perspective. But Bo and Kenzi came along and rocked his world and made him re-evaluate a lot of things.

Personally I love how Dyson's earned Kenzi's trust and affection. It's played out over several seasons and feels much more genuine than Kenzi's recent cheerleading of Lauren. Apparently that one scene last season in Confaegion is meant to mean they quickly got over their resentment/jealousy of each other and there was a lot of bonding going on off screen between those two? Taught her how to pick locks off-screen...okay. Sorry, but that stuff feels out of character and writers just forcing things because they want DL to be part of the gang now and the audience usually likes who Kenzi likes etc. So let's have her start going on about how great Lauren is this season so she can return to the fold. It's part of Lauren's walk-back imo.

Lauren and Kenzi not gelling personality-wise but attempting to tolerate each other (to a point) would be much more in character to me.

@nypinta: :D Three shows in one to analyse? Oh my.
C. H.
218. SmurfFae
It's really funny how double standards are applied to the actions of (amongst others) Dyson and DL, seemingly only because of their gender.
But Dyson makes the perfect object for the misandric fanbase, since he's comprised mostly of male heroic stereotypes:
He's been depicted as loyal, brave, noble, agressive, tenacious, but also romantic, gentle, passionate (and towards Bo always super-submissive) and has a mean self-sacrifical streak (for Bo). Alone these attributes make him too perfect to be true (maybe since he was always designed to be the male lead and Bo's love interest). He's also a fantastical creature with super-human attributes like 1000 years worth of wisdom.
But he obviously has a huge flaw, and that's his masculinity which most often takes on the form of him acting like a gentleman. The patriarchic, hetero-normative horribleness!

DL on the other hand is a much more realistically, jaded, human character: She's a science-genius with a sense of humor, but has many human flaws: she's on occasion been shown to be naive, bossy, territorial and controlling. (Seriously, does doccubus not consider her relationship to Nadia canon? DL was constantly snatchhatching and dominating poor, tormented Nadia. And keeping secrets from her. And asking Bo to kill her.
But Nadia was just a plot-device, standing between BoLo, an obstacle to doccubus-heaven - and a plot-device has no feelings!)

No idea where the notion comes from, that monogamous BoLo has a future, since it has run its course on the show and it left Bo hungry and Lo unhappy.
Carmen Pinzon
219. bungluna
After reading some of the comments above I have a new wish for the show: That Lauren tread Bo like Bo treated Dyson during S3.

WonderLauren still wants out of the fae world and still knows that Bo is BAD FOR HER (she's scary smart after all!) So let's have Lauren shrug off Bo and see how our succubus likes that. Double points if Lauren points out that she's with Crystal now.

A girl can dream, right?
220. nypinta
Somewhere online someone mentioned that ZP had said that Lauren doesn't pine for Bo as much this season. I am intrigued. I wonder if her new attitude towards the fae will extend to Bo. Or maybe she'll be turned off by the fact that Bo is technically "Dark" fae. But it would be nice if they don't walk any of the characters backwards. Forward growth, in an organic true to the characters way would be nice. Regardless of who ends up with who in the end. Just make it make sense. Dyson, right now, being there for Bo but not pushing her makes sense. But it's not going to if it keeps up. When he said he'd wait for her, I don't think he meant he'd let her use him while he waited. Not that he minds the using part... Whatev. So far this season is going better. Is it Sunday yet? BTW, The Morrigan is kind of a fashion plate, so I bet Lauren's wardrobe is going to get a serious boost if she's going to work for her.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
221. Kiersten
@nypita - she did say that, I think in Edmonton, and then quickly dialed back that part of DL will always be pining for Bo, but the damange was done. I agree, again. This season has been so much better and back on point. And I agree about Dyson, too. I've said before it'd be good for Bo to get a taste of her own medicine where he's concerned. She's much too sure of him and has been for a while. And anything that keeps DL and Bo apart romantically always makes happy.
227. TheUberFan
@Kiersten...I know you and I sail on two different ships (see what I did there? ;)

But one of the reasons I want the Tamsin/Bo dynamic to be explored is that Tamsin (once she gets her memories back) is much more reticient to connect with anyone. She told Massimo that love will get you killed.

So here she is with these feelings but I get the sense she'd run from them hard and fast. Unlike Dyson or Lauren or pretty much anyone else she's been with, Tamsin would present a challenge because she isn't the type to fall in Bo's lap.

This last episode...Bo is still tied up in her stuff and sees Tamsin as a child (which she is)...and Tamsin hasn't remembered anything or hardened her outer shell to protect herself. So she's much more open with her feelings than she would be otherwise. Notice how everything is about how Bo feels about her...that's why Bo hates me, etc.

But once she remembers, she'd be more likely to push away any love and thus would be a challenge for someone like Bo, who's used to people falling all over her and the idea of that challenge intrigues me.
229. nypinta
@UberFaenatic A lot of those reasons you stated above, (except for the part where she wouldn't just fall in Bo's lap), is why I'm intrigured how a Lauren/Tamsin relationship would go. Thier's would be a relationship of emotional equals. And Tamsin falling for the one person that she knows for a fact will leave her (because Lauren is a frail human) would be more brave, in a way. (If you follow what I mean.) Bo would be easy to love, despite how much resistance Tamsin would put up.

The thing with all of the relationships on the show, (with the exception of Kenzi and Nate), is that none of them didn't start for healthy reasons. Dyson is the first person Bo was with that didn't die, so he became safe for her. Lauren and Bo got together after serious personal tragedies for both of them. I almost want to use the term rebound. (They tried to walk back from that with the "love at first sight" line, but like I said before, that made everything with Nadia a waste of a life and made Lauren kind of gross to me.) So if anyone is going to be in a relationship I'd prefer it because they're two people that make sense. I get that part of Lost Girl is about Bo's love life, but does it always have to be about Bo's love life?
230. nypinta
Also, I know there are a lot of people that think Tamsin is Bo's half sister, but I keep waiting to find out that Vex is Bo's half brother.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
231. Kiersten
@nypita - I've wanted Vex to turn out to be Bo's brother since S2. They're powers *are* very similar in nature (able to control people against their will to make them do want they want). Bo chooses to (usually and so far) use her power to bring pleasure and Vex uses his (usually) to cause pain, which says a lot about nature/nurture. Although the Una Mens did say he was the Last Unicorn Mesmer and he made that crack about inheriting a fortune as such, so he knows his family. But still. I think that familial pairing would be endlessly hilarious
232. TheUberFan
@nypinta... I think that kind of idea is best reserved for fanfic. ;)

And I don't know there are a "lot" of people who think Tamsin and Bo are half-siblings. Frankly the notion of that given the setup the writers gave us last season is squick worthy.

But why do the relationships revolve around Bo? Because she's the central figure. Plus, Tamsin's scenes were split between Dyson and Bo, and she only flirted with Dyson for a couple of scenes in her first episode and has bro-shipped him ever since whereas the writers put in scene after scene of Tamsin with Bo, including some smoochy action going on, even though both were prediposed to not seek that kind of contact with the other (Tamsin having been set up to not like Bo and Bo being in a committed relationship).

But Vex as Bo's half-brother? That's a plot bunny right there.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
233. Kiersten
It's only squick worthy if you take that bathtub scene as sexual and not a woman in despair reaching out to another woman who she's realized she loves albeit not romantically. I don't discount Tamsin's growing love for Bo; her arc of learning to acknowledge and accept love and friendship extends to Dyson as well and culminates in a clear desire to be part of the Happy Sunshine Gang in The Kenzi Factor. Even as a teenager, Tamsin is worried that Bo hates her, not sexually (because she a child) but rather familially as the Big Sis role Bo has played in her life since Tamsin was reborn and Bo returned to Faeville. This Tamsin doesn't (yet) know Bo as anything but that.

Sure, the show could pursue the sexual angle (and knowing their fixation on making Bo a sexual Mary Sue a la Anita Blake sans vampire lover, they probably will), but that would be a major cheat as the nonsexual angle is infinitely more complicated and interesting. Comparatively, sexual/romantic love is easy; you can always break up. But there's no getting away from family, not really, and so you have to find ways to make it work.

Which is why I really hope they do take the risk and make Bo and Tasmin related. The tub scene is easily re-interpreted with that dynamic and it's not like they haven't retconned much more complicated and overt relationship dynamics on this show before. More than anything, it would give Tamsin a unique position in Bo's life, as she would not be a sexual partner (like Dyson and DL) and would be an actual blood relative (rather than emotional family like Kenzi) so everyone would have to re-evaluated the Faemily dynamic in relationship to that.

Also, it would make Tamsin Dyson's emotional in-law (so much as he and Bo often function as parents of the group) as well as his some-time partner and that just tickles me ridiculously. Previous Tamsin already considered Dyson shared "ownership" with Bo, "our wolf", so that would have an added benefit of, for a change, tracking nicely.

All that said, I expect the show will take the easy way out and add Tamsin to Bo's roster of lovers. Here's hoping they'll go for a more exciting choice than that.
234. TheUberFan
It's more than the tub scene though. It's the several situations that they put them in and showed physical attraction, right from Confaegion on top of what I see as a deeper connection developing between these reluctant fae women.

So I can sort of see where it'd be neat to have someone on the show with that kind of familial relationship with Bo...I just can't see Tamsin in that role without gagging. lol ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
235. Kiersten
Every physical interaction they had that involved any kind of sexual interaction, with the exception of the tub scene, involved Tamsin showing her disgust with the idea of kissing Bo. Even when they kissed in Brazenwood as an supernatural extension of Trick and Stella's embrace via the machine, the moment Tamsin came back to herself, she shoved free and practically wiped her mouth. There's a reason for that response that can't be dismissed and goes beyond an emotional reticience to be invested/attached to someone. I happen to think/hope it's because Tamsin has some idea that they're related.

What Tamsin has repeatedly shown is that she gets off on the power exchange when Bo succubusses her and that is definitely a unique situation between them that has something to do with the Valkyrie/Succubus interaction. Can't wait to see how that resolves/plays out.
236. TheUberFan
Yeah I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree with your interpretation there. I think she's shown reticence because, like teen Tamsin said, she thinks she wasn't supposed to like Bo. So she's been kind of predisposed to reject her and of course Bo had been with Lauren so she wasn't seeking out anything either.

In Confaegion, when they don't remember their disdain for each other...and when Bo doesn't remember her committed relationship with Lauren, we see there's physical attraction between them, where each is eager to continue kissing before Lauren jabs Bo with the needle.

As for Brazenwood, Tamsin looked stunned but not disgusted. I didn't get the "practically wiped her mouth" sense from her at all...just that she was acting out of character being so emotive and wondering why.

I do want to know about the connection they share though but I would totally be icked out if they made them related in any way.
237. nypinta
When I said "a lot of people" I meant on the web in general where Lost Girl is discussed, not just here. I should have made that clear. Sorry. Because I've seen a lot of that, plus people that want them together romantically too. Basically lots of Tamsin love.

I too didn't read any of their scenes together as anything that would be squicky if she turned out to be a relative. I admit it would be quite easy for the show to move them in that direction, but so far I've never read anything in Tamsin (or Bo either actually) that said physical attraction to me. The spin the bottle game is the one time there was, but they also were out of their own minds so... hey, Leia kissed Luke that one time too. ;P

And now that I'm thinking about Tamsin, she was in the same position as Dyson, working for two masters. She was given the job as new partner to Dyson by Evony with instructions to get Bo, which she seemed eager to do before she knew that Bo was who her other boss wasnted her to track down and bring in. This, like Dyson who works for the Ash but also answered to Trick to keep an eye out for Aife's daughter... interesting symmetry, show.

I get that most of the relationships are going to center around Bo since she's the central character, but it's not as interesting when you just know anytime anyone new comes on the screen that eventually they're going to end up with Bo. Vex didn't. (Brother!!) So, Tamsin doesn't have to either.
238. TheUberFan
I'd like to see how things go once Tamsin remembers who she is and Bo isn't, you know, possessed. Right now, it's just an extension of last year, but with different issues.

Last year, Tamsin was dying and conflicted because of her duties. Bo was in a relationship and conflicted about her behavior since she was in a relationship.

This year, Tamsin is so far, a child, and Bo seems to be possessing a malevolent spirit. So...let's clear that up and see what happens. Because I do see something there...but I also understand that chemistry is in the eye of the beholder and people who ship other couplings for Bo either don't see that chemistry or don't want to see it because it interferes with what they want to have happen...which is totally natural for fans of competing ships to do.

I just don't think that Anna Silk would say that it was a valid ship and joke about Bo being on a lot of teams if there were a chance that they were siblings...because, ick.
239. nypinta
Although I didn't seen anything romantic in their relationship last season, I don't think they are sisters either. But the show did leave it ambiguous enough that they could go several ways. They could in fact pair them up and it wouldn't contradict anything for me. I just hope if they do it isn't doesn't come across as cheap and another wink to the fans but as a natural progression between two very strong willed characters. ( I still think Tamsin and Lauren would be more interesting though. Just cuz.)
240. nypintypo
Dammit. I did it again with the double negative!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
241. Kiersten
I think there is a *lot* of chemistry between Tamsin and Bo, epically more than there ever was between Bo and Doctor Lauren, I just dont think that automatically defaults to sexual chemistry. Dyson and Kenzi and Dyson and Tamsin and Tamsin and Kenzi for that matter all have fantastic chemistry together, none of which is sexual best evidence by the AWKWARD and EWW of the Kyson fan wank in episode 1. Which is kinda my point. Bo needs some relationship other than Kenzi (and Trick, and arguably Hale) that is not sexually based but still is about love and relationship if for no other reason than to hold off the downward Mary Sue spiral, and I think some sisterly relationship with Tamsin, whether in fact or merely emotionally as it is with Kenzi, would be far more interesting a character arc than another bang buddy.
242. nypinta
Read an blurb of an article that Paul Amos retweeted today and seems we get more backstory on Vex. I'm guessing at least some of it in the next episode. Wooot! And he hinted that there is a connection between him and Bo and Kenzi. Hmmm!!?? (I think he means emotional connection for Vex, seeing them as reminding him of something from his past... not necessarily my dream of he and Bo being kin.) But still, can't wait to find out what it is. *please don't suck, please don't suck!*
Kiersten Hallie Krum
243. Kiersten
Saw that too! LOVE that we're getting more back story for Vex and we've been promised it for Dyson & Trick too & specifically how they became close. Benig a back story hore, this delights me greatly
244. ChibiHoshi
But then I think some of them see Bo as really being a lesbian and simply dismiss uthe fact that she is bisexual, that she enjoys the company of men and women, fae and human. 

THIS!!! I'm not surprised though as this IS reflective of some people in real life. Some believe that bisexuality is a copout to try to stay "normal" or be accepted by family or society and hide your true homosexuality. Or an act of a hetero to rebel/be part of the "new gay fad" or not being raised with "proper" role models (or assume there was a past trauma or abuse) that causes one to act sexually on naturally platonic feelings of friendship love.

Bisexuality has been generally dismissed as just curiosity/experimentation if you marry/settle down/fall in love and exhibit heterosexual manogamy and as denial/cowardice to fully come out if you marry/settle down/fall in love and exhibit homosexual manogamy.
245. TheUberFan
I want to know last names. I'm weird that way but I can't believe we're in season 4 and I don't know what Kenzi's last name is. lol
Kiersten Hallie Krum
246. Kiersten
@ChibiHoshi - welcome! thanks for adding your voice to the conversation.

I think that prejudice is definitely at play amongst some fans of LG. While this is very much not my wheelhouse, I've seen people make comments to the effect that Bo being called bi-sexual is simply playing it safe with the heterosexual audience and that she's really a lesbian and thus doccubus should be kept as the primary if not sole relationship of the show.

I've also seen the expressed opinion (not mine) that there is a precedent in mainstream media of characters who are bi-sexual (what few there admittedly are) skewing male b/c that satisfies the stick-in-the-mud heterosexual prudes while winking toward the more liberated, homosexual community. I would think any bi-sexual media character who chooses either a male or female partner does so because that is the very definition of bi-sexual - sexual attraction to both genders. That then makes any partner choice one of actual character and not limited to sexual preference alone where perhaps the male option in a particular situation is a better fit/match than the female one, as I would say is the case with Bo's current two main amours.
248. ChibiHoshi
Thanks for the welcome, Kiersten. I decided to come out of lurkdom.

I too believe that love is what matters regardless if the result is straight or gay.

I guess I should introduce myself.
I have always shipped the pair that trust each other. The pair that put the other's happiness/belief/desires before themselves. Whether it is risking your life, your freedom, your heart, etc., these pairs are my favorite and to me reflect true love yet I generally end up losing.

I think Mulder/Scully may have been the only ship I actually had in canon.

Everything else:

24 - Chloe/Jack - nada even after He risks losing a suspect to save her friend, she keeps the secret that he is alive, she hacks, is arrested, fired and she commits treason for him.

Arrow - Oliver/Felicity - She does what he requests even though she knows he is lying, trusts him even before she finds out his secret, is trusted with his secret, risks jail, trusts him enough to be bait, stands by his side while her heart breaks after he sleeps with someone else and was willing to die instead of being the reason he kills again and of course is sorry he had to make the choice to kill to save her life. - With my luck they will get together only to have her die and he goes back to his Secret and Lies relationship with Laurel.

Smallville - Chloe/Clark - He saves her, she saves him, she ends up knowing his secrets and helps keep them, she hacks for him, breaks laws for and with him, tries to keep his crush/girl from breaking his heart, etc. - Yet the Secret and Lies relationship are the canon relationship; talk about unhealthy.

Supernatural - Dean/Castiel - He rebels against heaven for Dean. Enough said.

Lost Girl - I am one of those "weirdos". I mean come on... She was the first one to find out his true form, which he had said that info is private as it gives away your weaknesses. She cursed him because he didn't just break Bo's heart and risks her freedom to reverse it. She stayed behind and hid under a dead body to be there if he survived. She faced the Norn for him, not knowing if she would be Fae fertilizer and never answered why it was so important to her. - I think she regrets that her belief, that he would still love her, was wrong (You'd think that love is gonna be the ultimate; then you realize that it means giving up more than you knew and you make this decision and it kicks you in the friggin box and leaves you wondering if its ever worth loving again.) She made this comment to MiniTamTam in 402 and I think she was referring to the 401 conversation (When you're in love you know. Right?) that she thought would survive the memory return because she thought love was the "ultimate".

DyBo and Docubus are just too filled with the whole Lana/Clark Secreths and Lieths type foundation to be healthy relationships.

Anyways that is me in a shipper nutshell. I leave you with the X-Files quote:

The best relationships, the ones that last, are frequently the ones that are rooted in friendship. One day you look at the person and you see something more than you did the night before. Like a switch has been flicked somewhere, and the person who was just a friend is suddenly the only person you can imagine yourself with.
Carmen Pinzon
249. bungluna
@Kiersten -

"Sure, the show could pursue the sexual angle (and knowing their fixation on making Bo a sexual Mary Sue a la Anita Blake sans vampire lover..."

Harsh! :-)

I've given up on any show showing different kinds of love between their main characters. It feels like all of them, from L&O: SVU to New Girl, cannot stand having a boy/girl pair as friends without introducing the dreaded sexual "will they/won't they" dynamics.

As for LG, they desperately need other types of relationships, imo. And Bo in particular needs some other people around who don't want to use her/kill her but don't want to boink her either. We need somebody who will call Bo on her crap. I loved how Tamsin served this purpose in S3.

Knowing how lazy the writers of this show tend to be, I'm not holding my breath though. Make way for the Tamsin/Bo boinking scene.
250. TheUberFan
Why would boinking keep Tamsin from telling it like it is? It never stopped Dyson from laying things out for Bo.
Carmen Pinzon
251. bungluna
It wouldn't stop Tamsin, but (imo) it would reduce her to just one more boink partner for Bo.
252. TheUberFan
Well I wouldn't be in favor of her being a boink buddy. ;) I'd like there to be a weeeee bit more to it than that.
253. nypinta
@ChibiHoshi, hello! I loved X-Files. I adored Mulder and Scully, but wasn't too keen on them getting them together at the end, because it felt more to me like the writers succumbed to fan pressure. Of course that might have been because it happened at the end of the series so it felt tacked on. But the "will they/won't they" trope of most shows drives me bonkers. So I appreciate Castle because they decided that oh yes they will and they'll be adorable about it to. Haha. I've never considered myself a 'shipper' but I think it's only when I narrow that to just the couplings of various shows. But I am a huge fan of great friendships, one of which is Dyson and Kenzi. Seeing all that Kenzi has done for Dyson really brings home how selfless Kenzi really is. It's funny that she does all these things for Dyson that really Bo should be doing, but is either too busy or doesn't think of to do in the first place. However, her speach to Tamsin I read as being about Nate, not Dyson. I don't think she has feelings like that for Dyson, but maybe does long for someone to feel for her what he does for Bo. (Who wouldn't!) So I adore them as friends. BTW, Cas is too good for Dean. Man, Dean can be such a jerk! (Just had to be said. ;P )
254. TheUberFan
My first ship was Ares the god of War with Xena. lol

My second, was Sam and Jack on Stargate SG-1. I don't ship a lot of people, but when I do, I ship 'em hard.
257. nypinta
Joack O'Neill is the funniest man in sci-fi. Fact.
258. TheUberFan
I totally agree. Richard Dean Anderson really brought humor and dimension to what could have been a 2d character.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
259. Kiersten
I stuck with Xena long after I wanted to bail waiting for Ares & Xena to get it together.

Jack O'Neill is the shit. Holy crap, but I loved the humor he brought to that show. The episode where he and T'leac repeat time slays me every time I watch it. And I've watched it a lot.
260. TheUberFan
"In the middle of my backswing??!?"


People who haven't seen this won't understand why that quote is funny...but I will always hear General Hammond screaming out Jack's name as he was sinking golf balls through an open Stargate with Teal'c at his side. Too good.

Here's the link to see it for those who are nostalgic for the awesomeness that is Jack O'Neill:
261. nypinta
I adore that episode! That and the one where Jack has been captured by Ba'al and Daniel shows up as the ascended being just to be there when he thinks Jack is going to die. I really wish they had left Daniel ascended for at least one season before bringing him back as a human. (And kept Jonas Quinn, because that guy was as cute as a puppy!) Ah... SG1. You were fun.
262. nypinta
@UberFaenatic, I almost posted the same quote!! Hahaha. Oh Jack.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
263. Kiersten
That is *exactly* the quote I was thinking of when I wrote the comment!!!
264. TheUberFan
And now the Stargate franchise is in limbo. Sigh.

Sorry I went so far off topic but we should have a general rule that anything O'Neill-related gets a pass. :D
265. nypinta
Seconded! I wouldn't mind it if RDA was a guest on Lost Girl. An Elder Fae of the Light perhaps. Part of Dyson's family?? That'd be sweet. (RDA is tall, right? He seems wolfish...)
268. TheUberFan
That would be AWESOME! The fae are so full of themselves sometimes and RDA would bring such a funny dimension as an elder that doesn't really conform to their way of thinking.

A wolf shifter...or..ooh. A gryphon shifter! Ever since Dyson mentioned gryphons last year, I've harbored a hope we'll get to see one.
269. nypinta
I wonder if shifters are always the same animal as their parents? Because it didn't seem to me that Dyson's pack were his relatives, just other wolf shifters. So, maybe, in my head, because it's giggling me, I'm now picturing RDA as Dyson's gryphon shifter dad. And maybe he and Dyson don't see eye to eye. Maybe it's because Dyson thinks his dad is disappointed that Dyson is a wolf. But I'm adoring this, in my head.
272. nypinta
Fertile plot bunny. More like a plot tribble!
273. TheUberFan
We were talking above about how different Bo is behaving...first in the boxing ring where Dyson notices it and says something and next at the Dal when Kenzi says there's something extra there.

But did you all notice the completely non chalant way Bo responds to Kenzi sparkling? Why wasn't she worried or at least concerned as to how and why her human bestie had fae powers.
274. nypinta
I took her raction as her being caught up in the moment of celebration and that Kenzi picked the perfect time and that Bo figured it was just a trick, so she wasn't worried. I don't see why all the fae in the bar didn't stop dancing and look at Kenzi like, "What the...?" because her sparking isn't a fae power so they should all be puzzled by it. Seriously, what else can she do besides shine like a firework, let her colors burst? The fact that Bo was so nonchalant about creating an impromtu dance party to begin with was a bit weird.... But there is something seriously up with her. Dyson says it, Kenzi says it. The fae traps at both the hovel and Lauren's going off. (Although the one at Lauren's was Massimo, right?) Her blood making choices she would never make. But her instinctual reactions are her own, the same Bo we all know. (That's a lot of "oh" sounds...) Hope she doesn't take this alignment lying down. I want to see her become the Norma Fae the Morrigan accused her of being back in Season One.
276. TheUberFan
Right...the trap at Lauren's old place was Massimo trapping both Bo and Kenzi, so it was triggered by any fae-ness.

The ward at the crack shack, however...was to block MALICIOUS FAE.

Bo fussed because she set it off "AGAIN" and Kenzi is like...dude, I must have set that up bad. But I don't think she did set it up wrong. I think that was the second of several clues in the episode that Bo is off kilter.

My personal feeling....daddy did something to her or perhaps one of the damned souls on the death train hitched a ride on the Bo-Bo Express and THAT is what's making her a lot colder and more self-involved at times as well as what is registering as dark.
277. ChibiHoshi
BWAHAHA. I can't catch a break. I am sure to be placed on your list of "beware, poster crazy".

I mean if "she ships Russian Wolf" isn't enough: I ship Sam/Daniel. I adore Jack, I really do, but he reminds me too much of some fools I've served with while I was in the USMC. At least I got to commiserate with Carmen aka Jacob Carter.

One of the good things the SG fandom taught me is to co-exist with both Jack/Daniel and Sam/Jack shippers who both adored the "incest" epitaph. I've only seen the term once in the LG fandom. I've actually laughed when someone said the kiss gave them a "Lanister" feeling. Everyone else is quite polite and use "too sibling like for THEIR tastes" and not the traditional SG "that is too incestual, your crazy"
278. TheUberFan
Speaking of Lauren's old place, why didn't Bo or Kenzi question how Massimo knew about what types of plants were on her wall?

Who owns her apartment? She was ward of the Ash, and I thought that meant she was "kept" and that she lived in a light fae building or apartment...but then Evony was able to make her way there, even though the territory had to at least have been either light or neutral.

So was Lauren "free" enough to have her own place?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
279. Kiersten
@ChibiHoshi - ah, I call it "faecest" all the time. Totally grossed me out to the nth degree of squeek factor. I see eveything you mentioned about Kenzi and Dyson and more from his side toward her, but the blatant lack of sexual chemistry and the deep, deep familial affection between them is too obvious to be anything other than brother and sister. "Dyson didn't only leave you, you know." Bo knows how much they love one another and exactly in what way and it's what makes that Happy Sunshine Gang work so well, it's never just Bo and Dyson or Kenzi and Dyson or Bo and Kenzi when the three of them are together - they're the core unit of the show - well, Kenzi & Bo are the raw core of the show and Dyson rounds them out. I love every single moment there has been with Kenzi and Dyson except every single sexual moment of 4.01. With the exception of the tango b/c that was more them being them again than anything else and everyone looks sexy together when doing the Argentine Tango.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
280. Kiersten
Oh and "Russian Wolf" is my absolute favorite union name yet even if I hate the union
281. ChibiHoshi
Cell phone typing takes too long what with typo/fat finger errors.

I adore that epi - Season 4 - SG groundhog day, even if the KISS is in that epi. (Ba'al and Accended Daniel is season 5)

Man you lot are prolific and hard to keep up with
Back on topic - I thought Fae powers are usually kept secret, especially if it gives clues to a weakness, can show one's hand, or (are all powers useful or "powerful") shows you are really powerless. I also think Bo mini thralled them so they wouldn't react normally anyways so only Bo's nonchalance is weird or "tell" as the case may be.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
284. Kiersten
Sorry, I shouldve been clearer. I thought 4.01 was a fantastic episode. I loved Kenzi & Dyson investigating & Kenzi being front & center & all the Aoife stuff. But I literally had to close my eyes when Dyson turned the sex voice on Kenzi & then the kissing...*shudder*...I pray they never go there again.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
285. Kiersten
Also, @ChibiHoshi, I was in the New Orleans airport waiting for a delayed flight home in February and another writer here on H&H pinch hit for me for the recap of one of the early S3 doccubus over laden episodes. She got brutally slaughtered by the doccumafia over several deeply stupid things and because of own schedule, wasn't able to moderate in situ but could only get on that night. I was waiting to board, battery dying, typing on an Android keyboard, trying to mitigate the damage, literally going "guys, all I did was get on a plane!"

All of which is to say, I geddit.
286. TheUberFan
Well most patrons of the Dal would know that Kenzi was human so one would think they'd be surprised to see her sparkly. That said, we know it has been a month and almost two weeks since Bo first disapeared and Kenzi got her glitter almost simultaneously, right? If we time the Bruce/bridge thing to be minutes after Bo was smoked out of the Dal.

So she might have shown them all earlier, or they might have been aware that the human had a little something extra.

And we know she showed off her glitter at George Takei's party...

But I still say that I would have expected Bo to be "what the fae? Since when do you light up like a human sparkler?" But she was too busy getting her Spice Girls groove on to seem to care.
Carmen Pinzon
287. bungluna
Is there any way we could have a takeover of the production company and name nypinta and Kiersten head writer and producer of LG? Pretty please?
288. nypinta
Wow. Sam/Daniel never occured to me. Wow. The age difference between Jack and Sam bothered me too much to really be on board with that ship, but I just loved how she smacked him down with her brains. Good stuff. Ha. Is "Russian Wolf" the ship name for Kenzi and Dyson? I kinda wish Kenzi could get a wolf of her own. Too bad Silas turned out to be a framing fae. He had momentary potential. (Pretty sure Vex and the Morrigan made him puppy chow though...) And it didn't really occur to me that Bo thralled everyone at the Dal. If so, that goes on the "wierd shit" list. She whammies people, to be sure, but to that extent and just for a dance off with her bestie? Of course, we don't really know what she does with her powers when she's not on a case. Their wardrobe has to come from somewhere....
289. nypinta
I said "wow" twice. Not because it's baffling, that pair, but that it never occured to me. I was wowing myself. FYI. @bungluna, I disavow any knowledge of a takeover should one take place. #gogogo I forgot that regulars to the Dal should all know Kenzi is human. They certainly knew the first time she showed up with Bo at the bar. Seems that they can't make up their mind about whether or not the fae can recognize their own on sight or not. For the duration of the spell I can see all of the fae in Faetown (as the Morrigan called it) thinking Kenzi is fae, but that's been broken, so her status as claimed human should be back too.
290. TheUberFan
IIRC, some fae have faedar, and some don't. I think Aife as Saskia said something to the effect that sensing other fae was not a gift that succubi have, for instance...whereas Dyson can tell by wolf scent, like he did right from the series premiere, where he sensed a rogue unknown fae had left a sloppy kill in an elevator.
291. nypinta
But Bo identified Luann as soon as she saw her. And she sees auras so you'd think she'd be one of the fae that could on sight. But they keep implying that being fae is more than just the one identifying power each have as if they all have other, better senses than humans yet tamper with the characters abilities to sense one another based on the plot of that particular episode.
292. TheUberFan
Yeah I think Luann was before they decided that Bo couldn't detect fae on sight. It's also the episode where she's healing with Dyson and her eyes turn black, not I think since that was the real pilot, they were still ironing things out.

That's a guess on my part but I'm pretty sure that Dyson is the only one in the gang who can sense other fae.

As for auras, she senses attraction, if I'm remembering correctly. She can read sexual interest but that doesn't equate to either their emotions or their faeness. That was my take anyway.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
293. Kiersten
Also, they dick around with the paramenters of how she reads sexual/emotional auras too because she damn well shouldve been able to read Dyson's aura once he got his love back and thus known the change of sitch instantly but, for plot machinations, they dragged it out 8 episodes before she found out and even then had that revelatory conversation betwen her and Kenzi offscreen. So I think the who can tell Fae issue is like most things in this show - it changes to suit whatever need exists in the moment.

That said, everyone's comments/deductions seem spot on re: Dyson being only one to scent Fae and Aoife saying succubus can't always tell until they turn on the juice and the rest
294. TheUberFan
I can see why they'd want to limit Bo's powers like that, otherwise she'd be too much of a superfae with too many powers.

I'm just glad we now have a character with WINGS baby. And I doubt they're just for decoration either. And yes, I've been really hoping we'd get to see a fae with wings so I'm a happy faenatic indeed.

And now for that gryphon... ;)
Stephanie Ong
295. RussianWolf
Hey lookie I registered.
RussiaWolf was available even after my battery died mid-register. Dog avatar - 2000-2007: good boy.

I like the less used Russian Wolf moniker for the ship but Denzi is the most common with Kyson rising this season after the last con.

I think Bo's whammy, if not a thrall, has to at least be like several shots or even a good buzz so do they even know Kenzi is there? Can they cognate enough to go: Wow, human with powers?

I think that Bo's blatant whammy regardless, is a BIG hint something is wrong. She basically roofied the bar patrons. She is acting like she is becoming like her mom - a bit crazy. Maybe it can't be helped when in the presence of "Daddy"? And in the end finding a cure for Bo can cure Mommy.

My questions are: Is Lauren free or still considered a Claimed Human?

When she assumed the blood was "Light-Fae bullshit", not Fae but specifically light, I think she is still claimed or at least believe she is (She mentioned she couldn't help Bo unless she was light which I'm sure meant she couldn't help dark fae. Does her ownership mean dark fae aren't suppose to kidnap her without fear of reprisals from the light?) Is she protected from a dark kidnapping? Can she switch sides? Can the Morigan claim her if she is considered a runaway?

Given the laws, with light/dark unions, is there a provision for those like Dyson who "love only one"? Will his life be in danger? Maybe some old arcaic ritual to prevent light/dark or Fae/human can detach him to love another? (They can play at irony - cure him only to have him fall back into it - Tease the Fae/Human then pull the rug from under me again and have him fall in love with Bo again - This way they can rid Dyson of mopyness for a while and the second love can have a better, healthier, foundation.
296. TheUberFan
I think the Una Mens see Lauren as a terrorist for her role with Taft. We saw that they had a mask ready for her but I don't remember what it said. Human doctor?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
297. Kiersten
Claimed humans are protected by their status. Otherwise they're food/victims to be taken.

When Lachlan came after DL in Hilton Hovel in S2, DL told him he violated Bo's territory & I think also said something about Kenzi being claimed & thus protected. So if Lachlan or anyone abused or harmed Kenzi, that would be tatamount to a declaration of war with the Fae doing the claiming i.e. Bo. I think an unclaimed human in Fae territory is up for grabs and could incite a battle if the particular human is quite juicy or desirable (in any kind of way). Which is why when Bo first brought Kenzi into The Dal, the moment Trick announce Bo claimed her, everyone relaxed.

DL voluntarily swore allegience/fealty/subjugation/whatever, the 1st time under false pretences manipulated by the former Ash but the second time she did it to Lachlan willingly and knowing full well what it entailed. So while some like to perpetuate the myth that she's a prisoner, I think that elevated her to Claimed Human status. Of course, once Lachlan died, her "ownership" transfered to Hale who gave her absurd amounts of leeway and seemed to pretty much let her do whatever she wanted, including banging Bo at any and every moment, without objection. It was only when the shit starting hitting the fan and DL display her gift of bad timing by choosing that moment to stamp her feet and demand her own way that Hale actually acted like a Fae corraling his claimed human. So it would seem the care and condition of a Claimed Human depends on the individual Fae to make it either a good thing or a prisoner-like situation. However, Evony then declared all Claimed Humans of Light or Dark Fae as terrorists, so it would seem that they are now fair game, claimed or not.

I think DL remains the property of The Ash, the question now is, who is The Ash? Everyone is plotzing over the Una Mens but nobody seems too worried about the Light Fae losing their connection to the earth because they've yet to designate a new Ash the way they were at the beginning of S2. Maybe the Una Mens is meant to set the games for Ash in motion after their interrogation sets everything aright again.

We've had enough manipulations of Dyson's love to fit the agendas of...others. To return to that trope would be a major cheat and, frankly, lousy writing. His forever love is show canon; haters are just going to have to suck it up and deal with it. KHR said during the pre-show before the S3 finale that Dyson is going to be in love with Bo for the rest of his life and we're just going to have to see how he continues to deal with that. He hasn't moped all season; he's had forward action in finding Bo and now going out of town in the upcoming episode to search for Doctor Lauren and basically doing whatever he can to get everyone back and keep them as safe as he can for as long as he can. I do think this "Dark" thing is going to have repurcusions for him and Bo - it's no accident that DL is apparently aligned with Evony just as Bo suddenly is declared Dark. How conveinent. I don't think Dyson is going to let that stop him though, but it will have to be addressed. Perhaps the presence of the Una Mens offers the chance for all the sketchy rules to be reset. That said, everyone has warned that fans should take everything they think they know about Lost Girl and flip it upside down. Well, we all thought Bo Light Fae in everything except open declaration - and now her blood has declared her Dark.

That's new.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
298. Kiersten
The Una Mens mask for DL said Human Doctor. They also had one that said Claimed Human, one that said The Unaligned Succubus and one that said The Last Mesmer
299. TheUberFan
I thought one of the masks read human terrorist. Was that the one for Kenzi?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
300. Kiersten
Yes, I may have mistook Human Terrorist for Claimed Human.
303. TheUberFan
@Kiersten...I know I'm being totally lazy so I apologize...I'm going by my memory. Which at 40, is a lot more suckish than it was when I was in my 20s. ;)

I think we had figured that there was one mask that was "claimed human" and thought that might be Massimo...and Kenzi I'm pretty sure was the "human terrorist"...and I don't remember others beyond the ones you mentioned.
Stephanie Ong
304. RussianWolf
They had a claimed human mask AND a human terrorist. The claimed human mask was probably the hint that Massimo was human.

Kenzi referred to herself as a terrorist in 401 during the Sunflowers quip by Hale.
307. ArneAsgard
This was my favourite episode of s4. Too bad only 9 more are left. The season is way too short. I'm glad RSTamsin's back. Her wings are awesome. I can't wait to see the Dark version of Bo being explored now that she's aligned.
309. nypinta
As much as I would love more episodes, I think this season might be one of the best for the simple reason that they knew exactly how much time they had to tell the story they wanted and since they filmed it all before it aired there is no way for them to adjust the story due to fan reaction. The only issue they had to really over come was Anna Silk not being able to come back for filming right away. Although, since they were filming the entire season before it even aired, I don't think they should have had to alter the stories too much because they could have filmed scenes from later episodes that she wasn't in first and had her make up the time by filming her scenes afterwards. I think more they were inspired by her not being there as soon as the others were for the first two episodes rather than have her not there due to necessity. Which I'm OK with because it was nice to see the other characters get some attention. And I have hope that this time if they are doing a "Bo explores her dark side" story that they don't have an easy out for her of the consequences. But I really do wish they would get back to her wanting to know who her father is and trying to get some answers for that. (But she might "off screen" because they love doing that. But if you're going to do that, show a bunch of research books around the hovel and have Kenzi make a quip about her leaving her research out or something...) But having her aligned, whether she made the choice or not, will be interesting to watch to see if she goes along with it or fights it. Will she let herself succumb to the temptation of things only a Dark fae would do rationalizing it? Will she get new digs? As much as the hovel is a central space for Lost Girl she really should have gotten a new or at least better looking place to live by now. I mean.. come on. Even Angel bought a hotel eventually and got out of his basement apartment. Vex was given the club to run by the Dark while he did errands for Evony. And the fae love telling her that they take care of their own. So. Ha. Maybe Bo will take over Vex's club. Hahahaha. (I know it won't happen though. I'm just thinking out loud.)
315. TheUberFan
So...if Massimo had been wearing the Twig of Zamora like we've all been considering, then Bo should not have been able to suck chi out of him, right?

That was an offensive attack against him and she took some of his life force...which I don't think should have been able to happen were he protected by the Twig.

So I'm rethinking that part.
316. nypinta
Unless Bo's powers actually are greater than that twig. Or her power confuses it because although it was an attack, her power itself brings people pleasure. Or he grabbed it just before he jumped...? Hrm. I guess it's another thing that they could leave him dead but gave an out to bring him back. This is almost like a "choose your own adventure" book.
Melonna Clarke
317. MelonnaBanana
I agree with all of the major theories here. Especially the Tamsin theory. It would stand to reason if we are sticking with mythology that all valkyries would be Bo's sisters. My major thing is that the Una Mens specifically said that Bo's blood is dark...which makes me stand by my gut feeling that Bo is very much still unaligned. Your blood can be one way but your heart decides who you are. Theres something wrong with Bo and its definitely the Dark King's (her father) doing. I'd also really like for Kenzi and Hale to have their talk. Can we please have a stable relationship on this show?! I can see the advantages of Bo working with Evony for the time being. Bo has spent so much time with the light fae i think its time the team went dark for a little while. The Dark Fae don't necessarily mean evil so I'm extremely interested to see this Morrigan/Bo alliance. Bo has to be unaligned or else this team of light and dark we all know and love wouldn't work. Plus, doesn't Kenzi still owe Evony that favor?
318. nypinta
That's true. So why didn't Evony just call in that favor when she had Kenzi last season? BTW, that rune glass jar... I thought it was three sets of hair, one from someone she loves, two from someone she trusts, three from her own head, but the kiss was "from the one who would never betray her". Because when it didn't work everyone was theorizing it was because Kenzi "betrayed" Bo by letting it slip she could chi suck a whole room of people. (There was also speculation that Tamsin put the hairs in the wrong order or that Bo didn't love and trust the way Tamsin assumed she did.. or by making Lauren made her hair wouldn't work, and blah blah blah...) But it seems Kenzi herself thinks that the rune glass required a kiss from the one that would betray her. Which is it? And how could it be that Kenzi kissing Dyson (which I think is the betrayal that Kenzi is thinking of) be the one that made the spell work if it happened after Bo was taken? Besides, I don't think betrayal means accidentaly revealing something or doing something while under a spell counts. But Kenzi seems to have an over developed sense of responsibility.
Carmen Pinzon
319. bungluna
I thought the kiss for the spell was the one Massimo got from Kenzie last season at the Dahl. They have recited that spell in so many different ways that there's no way to tell if they are being sloppy or doing it on purpose. My vote? Sloppy.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
322. Kiersten
The spell for the rune glass that Linda Hamilton said to Tamsin when she gave her the rune glass was slightly different that how Massimo recited it when he returned the glass complete with Kenzi's kiss. Kenzi is definitely the one who would never betray her and letting slip her room-chi-sucking capabilities is a slip of the tongue, not a betrayal, neither is kissing Dyson as neither remembered Bo's existance at the time. So *if* the spell failed, and Massimo for one doesn't think it did, it has to do with the love and trust aspects. More likely, it's about the fact that nobody seemed to be able to keep the terms of the spell straight and Tamsin probably took two hairs instead of three from one and three hairs instead of two from the other. Thus it's less about who loves and trust whom more and more about the fact that Dark Fae mercenaries and Human Druids don't seem to be able to do Maths correctly...
Suzanne Metaxas
323. SuzyM
Massimo said the spell did work, that it was to make it so the Wanderer could snatch her to his plane, it was not to kill her or to make her weak.
328. TheUberFan
We've been taking a lot of things at face value that now I'm starting to question.

When we first see Bo, she's on a death train and is waking up. Why did she wake when people remembered her?

Why was she on the train in the first place? How long was she there, was it the entire month she was missing?

What interest does Bo's father have in her in that he'd smoke her onto that train? How long has her dad been on the death train? How and when did he get his hands on Aife?

Tamsin was gone until Bo regained consciousness, then and only then did Tamsin Jr show up at the crash site. Was she on the train too or somewhere else? Why would Bo regaining awareness trigger Tamsin returning to earth?

What significance does Bo's "eyes being both brown and blue" have in a larger sense? It's been mentioned twice now by two different figures. Is it some sort of prophecy?

From Those Who Wander, Bo is referred to as the Chosen one or something to that effect by the cabot. Is that connected too?

Are the Una Mens connected to the Wanderer in some way?
Katherine Bloom
331. lsbloom
Acacia and Mossimo recited the spell slightly differently. But it was really Tamsin who flipped it. It started 1 hair from trust, 2 from love, 3 from herself. Mossimo had to get the kiss which he originally said from "the best friend" and Tamsin said "one who will never betray her," this was also about the time that Tamsin switched it to be 1 love, 2 trust, 3 herself. And then when nothing happened, Tamsin said, Bo didn't love and trust the way she claimed. Combine that with Mossimo telling the Morrigan that he botched the spell for her and well, who the heck knows what happened. I want to love and analyze this show, but what's the point if the writers are going to lie and change and get stuff mixed up all the time?

Bo is obviously acting dark. And while the dark might not be evil, they set up the dichotomy that way for a reason. Dark vs light isn't blue vs red, it has an inherent good/evil connotation. And since we're all on the "I choose humans side" the dark treating humans like an expendable food source, which along with their unforgiving governmental structure, they aren't good. Light isn't set up to be wholly good either, but they are better than dark. I’ve wanted to see more of the dark fae world, but every time they get Bo mixed up in it, I don’t like the undertones to the dark fae message or how it applies to Bo. Yes, she is default Light, but it isn’t so much that she never gave the dark a chance it is that the dark has been consistently shown to be unyieldingly awful. Not even dark fae want to be dark half the time. And the ones who do are cruel, power mad, and vicious. The answer isn’t that Bo needs to choose light or dark. It’s that both need to go away and they need to work in harmony with humans. But the only fae we’ve seen who do that have been Light.
Stephanie Ong
332. RussianWolf
But Kenzi seems to have an over developed sense of responsibility.
This really IS Kenzi in a nutshell. Which is why, I think, she blames herself for the kiss and didn't say anything about the whole memory thing or that HE kissed her and she kissed back.

I also think she wants to prove to herself that she fits in the Fae World. I think she is afraid she will be forced out of their world and that was why she was desperate for Fae juice.

On the whole Rune Bottle issue:
Anyone wish Moffett was in charge? He can keep a canon straight. I remember arguing that the "jacket" in Doctor Who's "Flesh and Stone" was NOT a continuity/wardrobe error but a plot point. (But then I argued Chlois Theory too which ended up just being sloppy work and not a planned thought out plot point.)

 And while the dark might not be evil, they set up the dichotomy that way for a reason. Dark vs light isn't blue vs red, it has an inherent good/evil connotation. 
I thought they made the point to dismiss the good vs evil parallel.
Remember the Blackthorn. He used the analogy that Light Fae are like the Native Indians in which they honour and respect the hunt and do not over hunt their lands while the Dark Fae kill for entertainment/pleasure. And he considered Bo "an
obnoxious vegan".
There are people who see cheap but good quality nicely marbled meat and think "BBQ with friends" and others think "Where's the free range chicken?" while others "I'll pass, where's the nuts?"
Suzanne Metaxas
333. SuzyM
@Isbloom Massimo didn't say he botched it to the Morrigan, he said he got rid of Bo for her.
334. nypinta
OK, so it was just Kenzi that seemed to think that her part in the spell was as the "one who will betray her" when in fact it was the opposite. I was just confused because everyone seemed to be posting (elsewhere I mean) as if that was part of the spell and Kenzi kissing Dyson sealed the deal, but the timing was off. I'm not even sure the fae know what it really means to be Dark or Light. I think a large part of it has to do with their attitude towards what is OK and not OK when feeding off humans, but they all do it. I think if it were just the Light, they'd probaby have revealed themselves to humanity, but they can't because the Dark and how they use humanity for their own means would mean humanity would never accept fae without fighting back. (Like Taft, but with less psychopathy.) Bo's behavior is a lot like many of the Dark we've been introduced to. I think of all the Dark they've introduced so far, Ryan was the only one that presented an argument that although could be seen as reprehensable by some, was on it's face value one that made sense. Sure, Evony uses the humans she makes deals with, but they get what they (think) they want in return. That seems to be the heart of many fairy tales. The fae being creatures that seem to offer what one desires but it always comes at a steep price. But that's life, isn't it? Deciding what is worth the sacrifice. But I think the leaders the fae have now are so entrenched in their petty battles just to keep power that keeps the rest of the fae down and hiding and forced into roles they otherwise wouldn't want that Bo should have been a catalyst for changing that system. Because it needs to be changed. I'm just wondering if they'll even mention how many claimed humans have died because of Evony's declaration and if Lauren will feel in any way responsible for them.
Suzanne Metaxas
335. SuzyM
@nypinta that is a very good point about DL being responsible for the execution of the claimed humans, never thought about it until you pointed it out :(
336. drusilla_doll
I think in a way Light vs Dark is also Order vs Chaos. Both can be bad if taken to an extreme or adherence is forced because then you pretty much get authoritarianism vs anarchy. Neither of which are 'good'. The Light can be too restrictive in its hierarchy and emphasis on rules of conduct (but with some good reasons like wanting to protect Fae society/keep humans from discovering they exist etc) and the Dark offer more freedom to do what you want, but that can be abused. Ugly power plays and survival of the fittest/more cunning seems to be more accepted too. But we haven't really dug deep into the Dark faction, so it's about time we got that fleshed out more.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
337. Kiersten
FTR the kiss between Kenzi & Dyson had absolutely nothing to do with the rune glass curse. The kiss for the rune glass was when Massimo kissed Kenzi in the season 2 finale. I dont know why anyone would posit otherwise since Tamsin threw the glass at Bo in the finale fight, so it was a non issue when Kenzi & Dyson macked in the S4 premiere, ditto the betrayal issue; she wouldve had to betray Bo before the glass was shattered. But the whole point is that Kenzi would never betray Bo...and she hasn't.
338. nypinta
I meant that Kenzi herself seems to think her kissing Dyson is part of the reason Bo was taken. Even though the timing was completely off. And she seems under the impression that she betrayed Bo, which also helped seal the spell. So she's wrong on both counts. But I was seeing posts online and couldn't recall if the kiss Massimo went for was supposed to be from the one who "would" or "would not" betray her. So it's me being confused mixed with Kenzi taking on responsibility for bad things that she shouldn't.
339. drusilla_doll
So, is everyone ready for a Dyson free episode where Bo and Lauren reunite again? I am preparing by stocking up on the alcohol, myself. :) Let's just hope the writers honour where the two were at the end of last season: broken up pretty definitively, and for good reason

Let's not have the two of them just forget how incompatible they were, how they didn't communicate, how they couldn't make each other happy/satisfied despite their best intentions.

I guess we'll have to see how much of a bone they throw to the pro-Doccubus crowd. I already rolled my eyes at the necklace from nowhere.
Nadine Robb
340. cmm
I'm ready, i'm also hoping its the last of these sort of stand apart episodes. By that I mean BO, Dyson Kenzi, then next ep DL and BO. I want to learn more about the wanderer really want his story to move forward without being rushed at the end.
341. nypinta
Based on synopsises ( synopsi?), whatever the plural is, there is an episode that takes place in Dyson's mind, so that sounds like a stand alone, and then a yuletide episode where they all forget Bo again. But even if they are doing episodes that have an episode specific task, at least this season they seem to be keeping the story moving forward. But, yes, for the love of all that is covered in chocolate would they please get back to the Wanderer? At the very least have Bo ask Trick who he thinks it might be? His abilities alone must name him. And Trick knows who he gave Aife too, doesn't he? So the choices aren't infinite. Trickopedia fail! ;) (BTW, someone on tumblr wrote a good piece about Trick being the ultimate nemisis for Bo, even if unintentionally.) I am mostly looking forward to seeing Vex and finding out more about him.
Carmen Pinzon
342. bungluna
The more I think about the Massimo/Kenzie kiss, the less sense this all makes. He needed a kiss from someone who wouldn't betray Bo to 'seal' the potion; he got a kiss from Kenzie; Massimo says potion worked. What's the problem?
Nadine Robb
344. cmm
Only the begining of the episode and i'm already pissed. GRRRRRRR!!!!
Carmen Pinzon
345. bungluna
Oh oh. Do I need to skip it for the good of my blood preasure?
Nadine Robb
346. cmm
You can watch it, I just didn't like what was implied.
347. TheUberFan
I don't understand the question, @bungluna.

Kenzi has not betrayed Bo and would not ever knowingly betray Bo. So the potion worked.
Carmen Pinzon
352. bungluna
@UberFaenatic - I have a tendency to blow a gasket, so I wanna know if this episode will be detrimental to my health. ;-)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
353. Kiersten
The episode appears to be very good but yes you will blow a gasket. Basically reunited doccubus no holes barred BUT it was also basically undone by episodes end BUT there's a quote directly from Bo that they're "back together" before the end part happens, which just makes her look so damn stupid I can't even. This is like the 3rd time Doctor Lauren breaks up which Bo and she still keep panting after her for absolutely no reason. So if DL hadnt dumped her again by episode's end (spoiler!), Bo wouldve gone right back into the toxic relationship with is bordering on TSTL. She even basically says "when you're ready to come back, I'll be waiting." WTF lady?! How dumb are you?

I should say I havent watched it yet just am super spoiled by Twitter.
Carmen Pinzon
354. bungluna
Well, the writers in this show do seem to specialize in TSTL characters! Ok, I'll take copious amounts of alcohol before I view.
Nadine Robb
355. cmm
Kiersten I was so pissed at this episode. Yes it was good in terms of pushing the story forwards but Bo's treatment or reference to Dyson was disgusting. I thought she had more respect for him than that but obviously I was wrong. Also the cheesy Doccubus moment, no mention of what happened last season... all I could think was seriouslys?!??!? SERIOUSLY?!?!? The only highlights for me was the Una mens and trick, Raynor subplot, Bruce scenes, the dance scene and vex. Other than that the rest was total and utter tripe. The rest of the episode really cemented the fact (to me anyways) that DL is and always will be a selfish (the word I want to use I will not use here) and Bo is beyond stupid. I dont' get why they don't let her grow. She is one of my favourite characters and she is continually dumbed down to promote that couple. I mean to come back to her because of a stupid necklass??? What??? Also DL never learns. I don't know how she can think she's more free with the dark than she was with the light (spoiler). It's the same deal different cage and she is foolish to think otherwise.

Sorry for my rant i'm just so psst right now. I wouldn't mind that wretched pairing if DL was held responsible at least once. GRRRR....
Kiersten Hallie Krum
356. Kiersten
Script sounds great. Lots of great Vex, Evony, Bruce, Kenzi, Tamsin, Una Mens, and Trick moments. Definitely moving ahead w/Wanderer. Bo was tricked (heh) into Dark Fae allegience and its desperate to get out of it. Doctor Lauren is now aligned to Dark Fae willingly. Says she feels free with them and never felt that way with Light Fae and the Dark allow her to come and go as she pleases. Tells Bo now that Bo is Dark, she will "see her around" so...
357. drusilla_doll
Oh dear, that sounds sad. To be honest, if Bo wants to cling to her Lauren fantasy (and let's be real, it's a total fantasy and not grounded in the reality of their situation), maybe Dyson should not be so eager to tend to her 'needs'. I hate to say it, but if he's not getting any emotional reciprocation, it's not enough IMO. I am not so desperate for Bo/Dyson scenes that I am going to be happy with just an occasional physical hook up when Bo's feeling annoyed at Lauren or hungry.

I'm disappointed by the writers, but not at all surprised. They're chicken-shit and will never have the balls to let Dyson be a true equal rival for fear of offending the more rabid vocal fans online. Just my current, port-laden opinion, which could (I hope) change ;)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
358. Kiersten
Oh, and you were all right, Evony had Lauren all along. But I stand by that it was Trick's voice. No mention of Crystal tonight though.

@drusilla_doll I'm actually beginning to feel the same way. Its past time Bo appreciate what she's got and I'd like to see Dyson get some of his own back where she's concerned and stop taking the scraps she offers while pining for the absurd DL
Nadine Robb
359. cmm
@Kiersten AMEN TO THAT! It's just ridiculous!
360. drusilla_doll
It's actually pretty absurd that DL is all pro-dark. We've seen Evony EAT humans for doing nothing to earn her ire. But hey, she's freer, so yay Dark. /rolls eyes. Let's just ignore the fact that Crystal was forced to bonk her under their orders, she was kidnapped and imprisoned and threatened with Crystal's murder if she doesn't comply. Hahahahahaha.
Nadine Robb
361. cmm
That's it exactly in a nutshell drusilla_doll. It was just so WOW. It's like DL has no common sense at all. I'm not even sure how she's able to function.
363. nypinta
Not having seen the episode, I can only hope that Lauren is lying about feeling freer with the Dark. Because if Evony decides she doesn't want Lauren to "com and go" as she pleases, she's going to end up a pile of goo or she'll be the one locked up behind a painting. And if I am reading comments correctly, Bo is forgetting that Lauren broke up with her? All before the Taft stuff? Is any of that even brought up? That Lauren got duped into working for a psycho and all of the claimed humans became targets and were probably killed by either Dark fae or the Una Mens? Did Lauren even bargin for the humans that are left to not be hunted down in return for working for them?
Nadine Robb
364. cmm
Oh no Nypita Bo does not forget at all. SPOILER *****apparently that jewelry she found in DL's draw is seen as an apology and that means they are ok to get back together. ****** Biggest pile of tosh ever! As to the last part of your comment nope. As far as I can tell she saved her own skin as per usual.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
365. Kiersten
No she doesnt forget anything just, as usual, give DL a free pass.

@cmm - wait, is that the doccunuts saying the jewelry was an apology or did DL actually say that to Bo? b/c there's NO WAY DL was going to apologize before she left with Taft. She was done w/Bo
366. drusilla_doll
Are you kidding me?! How ridiculous. I have to agree with @TheGardner on this one, if Dyson finds out Bo's all back on the 'Laurencandonowrong andismyboo' wagon, he should be 'Nope, sorry ma'am' on the sexing up. /sigh. Well, I knew it was too good to be true that Bo/Dyson would get a decent, fair shot. Or that Bo/Tamsin would blossom. Not while we have the albatross of Doccubus weighing the show down. So annoying the writers have to make Bo completely gloss over the break up, how painful it was to have Lauren reject her and lie about who she was and their inherent incompatibilities in order to shove that square ship back into a round hole. LOL.

So, we have Dyson pathetically pining for Bo.
Bo pathetically pining for Lauren.
Seems like Lauren's in the top seat here.

It wouldn't be so hard to swallow if Bo actually showed some romantic feelings for Dyson, too. I mean I have enjoyed the earlier episodes, but this episode just sounds like it's making Bo a shallow b**** with regards to how she's taking advantage of Dyson's desire for her, knowing he's still in love with her.

For me, it's not going to be a true triangle until we see Bo give Dyson something EMOTIONAL back. If that makes sense.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
367. Kiersten
For me, it's not going to be a true triangle until we see Bo give Dyson something EMOTIONAL back.
Exactly. There needs to be a clear emotional confession from Bo to Dyson. Its time for this doccubus bullshit to end.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
368. Kiersten
OK I'm watching episode now & Bo is waxing on to Vex about Doctor Lauren. "Wanna talk about love? Let's talk about Lauren" and how DL didnt do a full amputation to their relationship , just a bruise and all I can think is that is so delusional, she must truly be possessed or deeply, deeply stupid. Now I'm hoping I have Tums in the apartment
Nadine Robb
369. cmm
@Kiersten Bo says that. She says she found the jewelry and from there to drivel continues. That's what really got to me, I don't know how she can go from on a break to all is forgiven with a necklace. For all she knew that necklace could of been something that was left behind for Nadia (before she died). I just really hated the rectonning with this episode. I dont' get how she could forgive her for Taft because if DL saved Dyson's life as they all say then Bo has no knowledge of that. She wasn't even around and Dyson sure as heck didn't have time to tell her before he went after Taft. Also I agree with drusila_doll after today there ain't no way Dyson should pay her service anymore. They say they want to keep the triangle alive but for me they all but destroyed it today. Bo's actions pretty much say ah he's just a screwbuddy I don't care about him.
370. Stacymd2
Hey Guys and Gals,

So how was the show? Good? Bad? Lauren? They are crowing on the L-Chat board but nothing is up yet on Doccubus.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
371. Kiersten
Doctor Lauren: "When the Una Mens started killing humans and I ran, the Light never bothered to come looking for me."

WHAT THE FREAKING HELL IS THAT?! She ran immediately from Taft's lab BEFORE she knew about the Una Mens because she experimented on the freaking fae!

Ow. I just burst another retcon aneurism. Come on, already!! Do they even watch their own show anymore?!
372. nypinta
I'm watchng now too. I haven't gotten that far but it keeps freezing so I'm letting it load. But I did see up to where Bo sees Lauren coming to the party and is all agaga. I get that Bo probaby missed Lauren just as much and seeing her is just a reaction, but if I'm reading the above correctly, I don't think I'm going to be too happy later. It's one thing to be happy to see Lauren again. It's another to skip over all that happened between them before she disappeared. But Bo has never been really that mature when it comes to relationships. She's only really had three. Her HS boyfriend (that she killed), Dyson for about one week, and Lauren, a rebound relatioship for both of them. She doesn't deal well with rejection and likes to pretend the rejections doesn't actually exisist. I was hoping maybe she would have grown. It is possible for the Bo/Lauren relationship to continue without either one of them looking too much like tool.
373. drusilla_doll
It was the Morrigan who declared war on all the claimed humans. Did she forget that? Evony started the whole fricking slaughter. God TSTL sometimes.
Nadine Robb
374. cmm
Not to mention Kiersten Bo specifically says that Dyson is looking for her. I guess Dyson doesn't count as light fae. The whole subplot concerning Bo and that doctor is tripe. It doens't even make sense. The rest of the episode though makes perfect sense and fits in with what's been going on.
375. TheUberFan
Honestly...the Doccubus felt forced.

The initial part, sure. Fine. Lauren loves Bo and vice versa...and Bo is a sexy succubus. So yeah, after not seeing each other for awhile (and after Bo finding the conveniently placed necklace), kissing will ensue.

But the rest of it...Bo going on and on like felt really forced. Now she was drugged, so I think they made a point of using that time when she was a bit loopy to super sell the Doccubus.

But by the end of it, Lauren said in part exactly what I've been saying. She recognizes the futility in a relationship with Bo because Bo is fae and she is human.

Bo however wants to continue to live the fantasy because she's idealized Lauren and their relationship and is ignoring several basic truths as to why Lauren broke up with her the first time.

Hopefully, Bo will have a few drinks, focus on her stuff and then, like before, come to realize that things are well and truly over, barring kissing and random sexy times. That there is no future for them.

As for Dyson...I felt it pretty early on this season (with the exception of the jumby episode) that she isn't connecting with him emotionally at all. It seems to be physical... a way to jump her battery, as it were.
Nadine Robb
376. cmm
"I was hoping maybe she would have grown. It is possible for the
Bo/Lauren relationship to continue without either one of them looking
too much like tool."

I don't think it's possible Nypita because in order for the relationship to work they have to dumb down Bo. Its really telling that in the times before she was reunited with that doctor, she had intelligence she was figuring things out for herself and defining herself. The minute that doctor is back on the scene she turns all googly eyed and has no intelligence or common sense.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
377. Kiersten
Bo looks SO BAD the way she is sucking up to DL and if she can be bought for a necklace so that it dismisses everything DL did in the end of S3 then she deserves what she gets. How shallow and fickle is that? And we're back to "it was a break" when even Bo said it was a break up in S3. And that crap about Dyson being there to charge her up is beginning to seriously piss me off too. Oh wait, I said that already. Eh, whatever.

As for DL's entrance, holy hell, why not just stick a halo around her head and be done with it? And yet, for all their macking, there was not even one tenth of the intensity and tenderness that was between B&D in E3.

Other than the doccubus crap, the episode was definitely continuing the fast paced forward motion its displayed all season so far. Una Mens plot is moving forward. Bo is Dark is going to take some time to unravel but she definitely does not want to stay Dark, which is a declaration of its own.
378. drusilla_doll
I was willing to be patient to see what happens, but I think I would rather him just go back to being a patient friend who maybe in a hundred years will re-spark something with her, but right now? She doesn't deserve the amount of devotion and dedication he's given her. If she wants to deny reality and pursue something which would implode again in a few months? Fine, have at it. Just leave poor Dyson alone. I am not looking forward to the cellar scene now. Are any of you? I want some reciprocation of emotional feelings now. Otherwise the writers are just lying to us with all that talk of there being a romantic triangle. I hate triangles where one point of it is demeaned and the woman is portrayed as a user.

Low expectations is one thing. Being tentative and not wanting to push Bo into a deeper relationship, I can understand. But if Bo doesn't give a shit about Dyson's feelings and only really wants Lauren - no matter how much crap they've gone through lately and how many times Lauren has rejected her, well, let's just stop having her treat Dyson as anything but a friend she loves but doesn't want to date for now. Okay?

It just makes her look selfish in the extreme. I hate the fact that I view Bo's attitude towards Dyson right now as worse than what Crystal did to Lauren. /sigh.
Nadine Robb
380. cmm
LOL! When they meet up in that scene I changed the channel Kiersten. It was cheesy to the max. Like you the first five minutes of the episode was just too much. Basically negated anything that happened before in the episode with Jumby.
Carmen Pinzon
381. bungluna
Calm down people. We all know that WanderLauren is an idiot who'll believe anything any Fae tells her.

I'm sure that kind, Dear Morrigan, who's obviously the source of all WL's knowledge, told her all about how the Light Fae declared humans terrorists because WL had that slight slip of judgement and joined up with Psycho-Taft. Clearly, Dear Morrigan was concerned for WL's well being and came looking for her to offer her protection against the mean Una Mens and the inconsiderate Ligth Fae.

I mean, all the other oaths WL had taken with the Fae were so well meant and straight forward, right? No, the Fae don't lie to get their way, especially the Dark, and WL is a slave no more. Wasn't that what all the doccunuts were raving about before?

Plus, now that Bo had seen the light Dark, all's well in LaLa WL and Bo's self-delusional Land!

Foaming at the mouth mad, who, moi?!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
382. Kiersten
A slo-mo walk for Doctor Lauren?! Seriously?! How was David Hasslehoff *not* involved in that?
Nadine Robb
383. cmm
Hey don't insult the Hoff lol! I didn't even see that though, the minute I saw the expression on Bo's face i changed the channel.
384. Stacymd2
@Kiersten: you know to the Lost Girl writing department continuity is a dirty word.

@drusilla_doll: I agree with you too that Dyson should not sleep with Bo if she goes back to Terrorist Lauren. But if Bo is hurt and needs his magic stick he will look so bad if he doesn't help her. Also, I don't think Dyson could really refuse Bo if he tried. He considers her the love of his life.

I love how "slave" Lauren can buy jewelry for her girlfriend--in addition to living in a swank apartment, wear nice clothes, get awards, do her own research & publish the findings, etc.

Also, if Bo gave The terrorist the freedom to love then what did Nadia give her? Lauren supposedly gave herself to the Light Fae for over five years for Nadia.

One thing that I wanted to talk about before, but didn't get a chance, is how Doccubus says Lauren's actions is explained because she is "atoning". How has Lauren atoned? She has had two girlfriends, does a job she is trained for, and live a lux life (for the most part) since killing 11 people. If Lauren really wanted to atone, she would have turned herself in and did her time in prison so her victim's families could get justice.

I guess we got our answer. We wondered if TPTB would make the rest of the season about doccubus and Terrorist Lauren and now we know. They had lined everything up to go in that direction.

I just hope they don't make the Trick / Dyson & Kenzi epi about Doccubus. I am super worried now about the "Lauren going into Dyson's memories" thing. I still feel the writers are setting Dyson up for a fall to make Lauren look clean by comparison.
385. drusilla_doll
Dyson gave up his wolf for Bo. Something that was his core. Something he didn't do lightly. It was the essence of himself. That he was tricked into giving up his love for her which was even more precious is irrelevant.

S2 he was willing to die for her during the Garuda.
S3 he was willing, again, to die for her at the Dawning and even made her kill him when he realised he was keeping her back from graduating.

And now....he gets to be her battery recharger. Oh joy.

When has Lauren put as much as Dyson has on the line for Bo?

It's so so sad that we're stuck with Bo fawning over someone who broke up with her THREE fricking times for valid reasons.

I really just have to laugh at the insanity.
386. TheUberFan
Another thought...Bo going on and on about Lauren and how things are great is also like when she told Dyson that the sex with Lauren was great, perfect, awesome...maybe too good. Or when she told anyone with earholes that it really wasn't a breakup, just a break.

In other words, Bo wants to believe it, so she does. Until such time as reality smacks her in the face and she cannot avoid the truth anymore.

The necklace and the sentiment made Bo remember why she loved Lauren but like we've all said, it doesn't really change anything. Lauren didn't break up with Bo because she didn't love her.
Carmen Pinzon
387. bungluna
Dark Dr. WonderLauren going into Dyson's mind is scary.
388. drusilla_doll
Bo thought things were great, but it was clear to the audience they weren't. Bo was starving and lamely claiming the sex was epic when it clearly wasn't. She was glad Lauren allowed her to have sex with other people and stuck to the no Dyson rule but never noticed how uncomfortable it made DL. Lauren felt ignored and neglected and broke up with Bo because of her stresses with the Fae and Bo's utter lack of attention and communication. Let's not even go into their whole uneducated but street smart vs brilliantly smart but street dumb issues. Lauren intended the break up to be permanent and went off to work for/live with a human who turned out to be a psychopathic mass murderer. But Bo is like awww bling, I forgive you.....

390. nypinta
OK. I'm confused. Lauren's justification for signing up with the Dark is that the Light, who were thrown into chaos after Taft had been abducting them and forcing them to fight in fae cage matches, didn't come to find her to protect her against the Dark for declaring all humans terrorists? Nor for protecting her from the Una Mens when it was probably the crap with Taft that brought them to Faetown in the first place?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
391. Kiersten
@nypita - yep. thats exactly what she said. Light Fae didnt look for me after I disobeyed a direct order and joined up with the man treating them like lab rats and then experimented on them however unknowingly. Boo frickin hoo.
392. TheUberFan
Well the thing is, it isn't up to Bo to decide. She isn't the one who called things off in the first place...Lauren was.

So Bo can "forgive" whatever she wants...but it doesn't change why Lauren broke up with her the first time nor does it change where they are now.

Frankly Bo looked kind of pathetic. She's a succubus, for crying out loud! I know the girl wants love and has put Lauren on a pedastal that no one could possibly merit...but she needs to get her head screwed on straight and figure out what's going on before even entertaining another relationship.
393. drusilla_doll
But, but....a trinket shoved in a drawer trumps giving up one's wolf, don't you know? :P
Carmen Pinzon
394. bungluna
I just realized that Bo left Kenzie and Baby Tamsin ALONE in a dark Fae Party to go canoodle with WonderLauren. No wonder Kenzie has abandonment issues. As for Bo, I'm beginning to think she's a total loss. She didn't fight for Dyson's love, she abandons Kenzie all the time. Aparently the only thing Bo's good for is to go suc-a-doc.
395. TheUberFan
Yeah Lauren's reasoning is really...bizarre. She disobeyed Hale, and said he lied to her (I still don't know how or when he lied to her). She takes off her necklace and leaves to work for Taft. I don't think she knew what he was doing until she saw the blood she was analyzing and recognized it as a mature succubus...but still. Dyson was right to lay into her. She had made her bed and as a consequence, he had been kidnapped and she was enabling a psychotic killer.

So...what does Lauren do? She runs, because that's what she's good at. She ran when the bomb she built and her brother placed killed 11 innocents. She ran away from Bo. She ran away from the light to join Taft. She ran away from Taft's compound. She was about to run away from the diner when she was doc napped.

And she had been in contact with Dyson, who she knew was concerned about her wellbeing and is searching for her. So she chooses to stay with Evony, why exactly?

Also...I think that you were right, @Kiersten and that was Rick Howland's voice and they used it to throw us off and think "light fae has her."

BTW...where is Crystal? Are we going to see her again?
396. TheUberFan
As for the Wanderer arc...I think we've gotten more hints that the Wanderer is not Odin.

Vex thought Bo was wacked in the head, talking about the Wanderer, since that's just a scary story to tell children...a boogeyman.

And Trick doesn't know who it is either, which I found interesting. I had thought he knew who it was...but he's trading favors for info...isn't he talking on the phone with creepy long nail chick who made Dyson say he couldn't love Ciara... The woman from Barometz. Trick. Pressure?

I want Tamsin to get her memory back but I don't think we'll be seeing her for the next couple of episodes. Maybe when we see her next, she'll start to recall and deal with the guilt that will inevitably ensue.

And maybe we'll start to get answers about the Wanderer.
397. Nypinta
The Una Mens seem to know who the Wanderer is. I think it's his name on the declaration. Interesting it's similar to the name of the Bounty Hunter from Original Skin.
399. TheUberFan
Oh she was injected with a hallucinagen. That actually makes that scene a little more bearable.

I don't understand who the scavenger fae is and who she murdered though. But I found Lauren's expression when she said Bo and she made a great couple intriguing. It wasn't proud or excited. It was sad. Wistful. I read in her eyes, "if only that were true."
400. TheUberFan that the name of the Wanderer or is that the name of the dark fae who I think inhabits Bo's body? Remember I suspect that Bo picked up a dark fae body jacker, one of the damned from the death train, and that's what was registering her as dark.

Also, let me add that Tamsin, even without her memory, is still adorkably socially awkward. lol
Carmen Pinzon
401. bungluna
I just thought of something. Lauren has a tendency to martyr herself, so what if the Morrigan has Crystal as a hostage to Lauren's good behavior and the wonderidiot is, once again, sacrificing herself rather than confiding in Bo and asking her for help?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
402. Kiersten
You know, I thought of that Bungluna but there was so much sincerity oozing from DL. She was at peace. There was none of the forced play act from Taft's office. She really had made this decision for herself. She's already given Bo up twice; I don't think she ever intended to renew their relationship.

Crystal may be part of the deal in some way, I'd be surprised if she wasn't, but I don't think this is a ComaNadia sitch. DL is content with her decision. ZP said we'd see a different side to DL this season and I think this is it. She's making her own choices. Say what you want about Evony but she does give her victims/clients/people a choice. Evony has always taken being The Morrigan very seriously. She's cruel and manipulative and a liar but she lets people decide to take what she's offered or not.

That doesnt mean the show wont eventually play it that way to restore doccubus. They've already proven capable of doing whatever is necessary to make it happen.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
403. Kiersten
According to the post mortem interview Emily Andras did with TVCanada, Rainer is The Wanderer
405. TheUberFan
Yeah I agree with you totally, @Kiersten.

Here's Lauren's expression after Bo walks out:

She's not distressed. She's not sad. She's not bitter. She doesn't look to be under any duress whatsoever. She's at peace, having long since let go of Bo.

Bo however has continued to nurse the fantasy and, for whatever reason, felt the necklace made everything right. But she was kidding herself. She'll figure it out eventually but it's like the episode where she keeps insisting they're on a break. It's annoying and heartbreaking to see her continue to live in an unreality because she doesn't want to deal with the truth.
406. TheUberFan
OOH. Wow. Okay so I need to see that interview.

And we were right, Bo's dad did screw with her. But I'm thinking maybe my pet theory that she's taken on a death train malicious fae may not pan out. Maybe dad's influence on her is what is making her colder and is what sparked the fire ward?
407. nypinta
I think what bothers me most about what Lauren tells Bo about why she's with the Dark is that again she's turning it around to be someone else's fault rather than admit she is with them because it was her only move to save herself. No, "if I came back the Light would have turned me over to the Una Mens". No. It's because they didn't come to her rescue against them so it's on them she's Dark now.
409. TheUberFan
The TV Guide questioner... "While Lauren was hesitant to fully commit herself to Bo..." she wasn't. There was no hesitation. She said, pretty clearly and calmly, "see you around sometime" and that she's not going back. Bo talks about wanting to free her so they can be together and Lauren is again very clear about it. I saw no hesitation at all.

And I have no doubt there will be some sort of sexy times ahead for them because we have to keep doccubus fans happy or something. But I continue to not see any path for them long term.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
410. Kiersten
Yeah that interviewer really danced around the whole thing as though it was a blip or something. "Hesitant to fully commit herself to Bo..." in what way. That some broad selective viewing right there especially for a "journalist". All Bo's suggestions were ownership & DL is making her own choices now whether doccubus likes them or not. She was settled before Bo even knew to ask the question. That Bo was ready to go canoodle in a bath tub after everything DL had done is more objective and tragic than anything else.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
411. Kiersten
Doctor Lauren/Bo bullshit aside, tonight's episode was damn good. Good script, good lines, lots of Vex and Evony, forward movement with Wanderer and Una Mens, Trick doing Trickster stuff with Una Mens, and DL ultimate blowing Bo off...again. Works for me.
Carmen Pinzon
413. bungluna
The one bright spot for me was the acknowledgement by Bo and Vex that they are part of the same faemily! It seems to be the time to gather all the strays into the Happy Sunshine Gang.
414. TheUberFan
Yeah there really was a lot to this episode.

First of all, we learn more about the una mens and their relationship with the Blood King, who became corrupt and gave up his daughter, Aife, to appease them. We also learn that he betrayed them and turned his back and refused to become one of them as he had promised.

I'm probably going to have to rewatch the Trick/Una Mens scenes again because there's a lot of story there and I'm not entirely sure whether or not they recognize him as Blood King.

We learn a ton about Vex. I loved hearing him talk about his family and why he joined the dark. And now he's got one hand...but, they have it on ice, so are they going to try to heal it and reattach? Although I did find it particularly funny that the hand has its middle finger extended and is sitting on a counter at the Dal with the ice people are using for their drinks. LOL and ew. ;)

While the doccubi scream reunion, the reality is Lauren made it clear in no uncertain terms again that she sees no future for her and Bo. She is at peace with where she is now and Bo is continuing to lie to herself if she thinks there is a legit path for them to be reunited for anything more than random sexy times.

Next, Tamsin is adorkably socially awkward still, even in this incarnation which is still very innocent and a blank slate. I hope the next time we see her, she starts to remember and we see her edging it up again. But seriously...the whole dance thing was a riot. She didn't seem to recognize Evony either btw.

Another point...she's claimed Bruce and of course will free him. But she's distressed that she caused her rival to die...and the last scene with her listening on Bruce and Kenzi talk, was very special. She's hopeful in a way the last incarnation of her was not.

We still don't know what happened to her when the truck went over the cliff. She was gone for a month. Did she die right away? Or did she suffer multiple deaths/rebirths at Rainer's hands only to be sent back to earth once Bo woke up? And how is that related?

Trick will become the new acting Ash. Wow. And his scenes were some of the best I've seen with him so way to go Rick Howland.

Lastly, we now know the name of Bo's father: Rainer. Who he is and what that idea. lol But as @Kiersten pointed out, the Una Mens seem to know via their book. And Trick might after all, or he knows something. That last scene with him...there's something in his expression. Maybe it's because he knows who has the book and that the Una Mens will find out before he does the significance of the name Rainer.

That seed is free now. What will that mean? Who has it? Will someone be forced to become Una Mens?
421. Darthfaeder
Okay can someone please tell me what is this I read about Tamsin
claiming Bruce??? also why did she Valk out and kill someone? I
won't be able to watch till later when I get off work but gotta know
now! Also what was Tamsin singing and why the hell was she dancing? Someone please help out a fellow LG fan.
422. nypinta
I don't think the Blood King's betrayal, in the eyes of the Una Mens, was giving up Aife. I think it was that he didn't take his place among them by swallowing the seed. He was arguing that the Blood King abided by the laws and therefor wasn't corrupt even if he didn't join them. It seems they insinuated that by not swallowing the seed, they are not whole. I do like that apparently the fae didn't take his laws and rebeled against them and the Una Mens. Something that I think is going to happen again.

I wonder if Trick does have Aife and the seed has escaped if that means that Aife will take Trick's place. It really is her only option now. Either be crazy and devolve into underfae because she can't possibly be let loose again. Or have all of that taken away and join the Una Mens. And maybe if they have all six they will not be as unbending and cause such cruelty.

Like I said elsewhere, it's a problem when a character like Vex comes across as more sympathetic than Lauren. I still can't wrap my head around the reasons they gave her for choosing to stay with the Dark. I get that she'd be happy to see Lauren again after being so worried about her. I get that Lauren would be so happy to see Bo after all that had happened to her and knowing the last things she said to her weren't entirely true and now that she has a new understanding of why Bo was so hurt by their first time together... I can see it being a happy reunion, but one where the happiness was only temporary. But Bo going from one episode of "who is Lauren, really?' to "my heartsong" is confusing. But as I said earlier, Bo is still emotionally immature. And she's used to getting what she wants. The idea someone can so no to her is not something she recognizes. But she sees Lauren and she's not even a little bit angry? Not just a little bit wondering WTF is going on and wanting answers? If that was the only issue with the episode, I'd be more OK with it. But to have Lauren say she's with the Dark because the Light didn't come for her is... I don't know what. I still can't wrap my head around it. If she had told Bo instead, "no you can't protect me" and reasoned that the Dark had promised her protection that the Light can't guarantee. That I'd understand. I'd understand her making a choice based on who could protect her, but not frame it like the Dark deserve her for coming to her rescue. Especially when Evony only went and got Lauren to use her to get Bo. And her framing it as if the Light lose out on her because the Dark came for her makes her look like a jerk seeing as at the very first party she's at the Dark killed a newlywed couple just for the food, and had several of the guests hostage as food. How can Lauren justify aligning (which is what she did) with them as if they earned her? She's a doctor!

As for Bo, I think, as someone used to always getting what she wants, she doesn't know how to earn people herself. Which is why she's so nonchalant about Dyson but works so hard for Lauren. Being rejected is like crack to her. Because it never happens.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
423. Kiersten
Tamsin & Kenzi go to the Dark Fae party with Bo who abandons them to go bang Doctor Lauren in a side room. T&K find that Bruce is being punished for helping Kenzi by being made to be a table for the party food. His punishment only ends when his master says it's done. The only way to "free" him is to have another Dark Fae claim him. Since Bo has yet again abandoned the people she's sworn to protect in order to bang DL, Tamsin cheerfully volunteers to announce from the DJs microphone (not singing as it might appear) that she now claims Bruce, which she then does. Only Bruce neglected to say that she'd have to duel his current master to the death for Bruce's ownership/freedom. Because Tamsin is still a teenager and is taking advice from Kenzi, this turns into a dance duel to the death. TeenTamsin is woefully out classed though by the other Dark Fae who is a made crazy skilled dancer, but then, encourged by Kenzi, she casts doubt on her opponent just as said opponent attempts a front dance flip, which makes the Dark Fae miscalculate. She breaks her neck in the fall and dies. Tamsin is upset as she didnt mean to kill the Dark Fae and isn't the same merciless killer she was in her past incarnation. The result, however, is that Bruce is now officially hers (really Kenzi's) and now that Bo has accepted responsibility for Vex to keep him from Evony and the Una Mens, that means Hilton Hovel is basically becomind a halfway house for damaged and endangered Dark Fae...which is more than a little hilarious.
424. nypinta
@Darthfaeder, Bruce was being punished for helping Kenzi and during that time a fae "masters" him. Kenzi found him being humiliated and Bruce explained what was happening but that any fae could "master" another, so she convinced Tamsin to do it. But the fae that was "mastering" him could defend the new claim in a duel to the death. Tamsin was given the choice of how they would duel, and still being young, she said she just wanted to dance. During the 'dance off' the other fae turned out to be hella good so Kenzi said maybe she should throw some of her Valkyrie doubt at her and the woman ended up breaking her neck so Tamsin one. She wasn't singing. The photo of her with the microphone was when she announced she was going to take over the "mastering" of Bruce.
425. Darthfaeder
Thanks Nypinta for the update I appreciate it :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
426. Kiersten
@nypita - lots of good points about Bo's immaturity and chasing after DL. Also about DL's reasonings for joining the Dark. That after her actions at the end of S3 her biggest peeve is that the Light Fae didn't seek her out (because she's what? so bloody important?) seems really juvenile a reason.

That said, I think it does track that DL's persecution complex would latch onto someone who'd offered come and go as you please option as opposed to the restrictions the Light often placed on her, usually for her own safety and due to her own behavior, but that doesn't register with DL. I think this is also the progression of her character in that her experience with Taft and then again with Crystal not to mention what happened when she was Karen have chipped away at her empathy for humans. She was *very* quick to threaten the chippie in the alley where before she wouldve soothed her to keep her quiet. To DL's mind, the humans have betrayed her over and over again and the Light Fae have abused and betrayed her over and over again. Here's the Dark Fae basically giving her carte blanche if she looks the other way from time to time as to their human feeding proclivities. I think she's more than ready to make this and other compromises as everything else she's tried has failed so abysmally, especially her attempt to carve a place in the Light Fae world via her relationship with Bo, which didn't changed her standing with the Light at all. The Dark Fae and Evony particularly make no bones about who and what they are; they revel in it. For once, DL actually knew what she was getting into with eyes wide open when she aligned with them - she finally got to make her choice on her own terms. So yeah, I think the reasons she gave made little sense in general, but they made ample sense to how DL perceives herself and her history within the Fae community and with regard to the human community and I think they reflect how she's getting harder and, hopefully, we'll see more of the Doctor Frankenbitch aspects of her come out under the Dark Fae tutelage as well, because that has many juicy possibilities.
Nadine Robb
428. cmm
See I don't Bo as emotionally immature, I see her as desperate. Before finding out about the fae and what she was she was constantly on the run trying to understand her dangerous nature. Now that she has found out about herself she doesn't want to let go and once she gets something she keeps fighting for it. From my pov I completely understand that and it's something I would do. Doesn't make me immature at all. I see where it comes to that doctor the writers purposefully make her stupid. This relationship will always be toxic to them. I find that its always Bo that has to constantly grovel and sweet talk her way back into that doctors good graces. It's not right at all. At least with Ryan and Dyson Bo never had to change her nature and they accepted who she was fully.

Next, I find it very disturbing that that doctor could even consider humans have betrayed her, when she is responsible for some of their deaths (indirectly). It really bothers me that she never takes responsibility and her confesing about making the bombs last episode to me wasn't enough, it was basically her talking her way out of what she took part in. I know that people like that doctor fully going dark and going into the decision with both eyes open, but I feel that near the end of the season she is going to be begging for Bo to save her. She's going to say she didn't understand and she thought this and that but in the end that's what will happen.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
429. Kiersten
Oh, Doctor Lauren is going to have to be saved again by Bo at some point. That's practically a given. DL told Bo long ago that's her role in their relationship: to save Doctor Lauren. Because *that's* not passive aggressive much.
430. no1zoiepalmerfan
The spybang was confirmed for what it was by the spybanger herself. (ha!!!!)
Now what I would like to see in S5 if the show gets picked up for another season is Dyson coming clean and admitting that he too "spybanged" Bo...which I will keep saying regardless of whether any of you are willing to acknowledge he did all through S1! Slept with Bo while spying on her=spybanging! Regardless of whether Trick was against him sleeping with Bo!
431. no1zoiepalmerfan
The spybang was confirmed for what it was by the spybanger herself. (ha!!!!)
Now what I would like to see in S5 if the show gets picked up for another season is Dyson coming clean and admitting that he too "spybanged" Bo...which I will keep saying regardless of whether any of you are willing to acknowledge he did all through S1! Slept with Bo while spying on her=spybanging! Regardless of whether Trick was against him sleeping with Bo!
432. no1zoiepalmerfan
If I remember right, it wasn't just Light Fae that were being captured and was Light & Dark!
Katherine Bloom
433. lsbloom
In order for him to "Spybang" Bo. Dyson would have needed to 1) Do it under orders. And he was explicitly asked not to do so. 2) Reported information back about Bo to Trick that is more than a group of friends discussing each other. And he was never shown to do anything of the sort. He never said anything to Trick about Bo save that they should trust her more and that she could handle it. That's not spying, that advocating.

Having preexisting loyalty and making up your own mind about something, isn't sleeping with them under false pretenses. He was very clear that they were not a couple and he didn't owe her those sorts of emotional ties, and Bo accepted it and kept coming back.
434. no1zoiepalmerfan
There's more than one interpretation of the word spybang....Dyson was sleeping with Bo while spying on her for Trick...hence spybang.....In ep113 Kenzi even accused him of spying on Bo from the minute they met and Dyson even admitted it! Dyson was sleeping with Bo! He was keeping tabs on her for Trick. HE WAS SPYBANGING have your interpretation of what happened...this is mine!
435. TheUberFan
Wow. Let it go dude.

And I don't recall him spying on Bo, especially for Trick, who forbade their relationship. He was trying to look after her well being though and he did speak positively to Trick about Bo. But spy on her? You have to really hate the guy to come up with that kind of interpretation.

As for Lauren, she was ordered to sleep with Bo. She knows it and acknowledges it. She knew it was a mistake, even if it was well intentioned.

So...let. It. Go.
Katherine Bloom
436. lsbloom
I've given you my reasons why I disagree. You have your own reasons for not accepting it. That's it. He didn't spy. He didn't sleep with her under false pretenses. He didn't go after her. He avoided her and tried to keep her at arm's length to maintain his emotional independence. Bo came to him. Repeatedly. He fell for her, and when he accept that, he came clean, with TRICK'S secret and the very little he knew about it.

Lauren slept with Bo to trick her and she did it because her "owner" wanted her to. Not becuase that's where the relationship was, because the Ash sent her. And it is a pattern of behavior. Spybang, secret girlfriend, Taft, Karen. Lauren lies to protect her own interests to the detriment of Bo. Blame the writers, but stop trying to drag Dyson down with Lauren by reinterpretting the meaning of spying.
437. no1zoiepalmerfan
"@Gardner you are entitled to your opnion be that what it may. You are a Dyson hater and that is all there is to it."
Hmmm! I guess that makes almost every poster on this blog who bad mouths Lauren a 'Lauren hater'! That is why I am always leery to come to this site. I have never seen this much hate for Dyson/Bo fans on other sites as I have seen for Lauren and Doccubus fans here.
438. no1zoiepalmerfan
Just a thought. When Dyson went to the Norn would he have been as willing to give up his love for Bo to help her as he was to give up his wolf?
Katherine Bloom
439. lsbloom
Everyone's entitled to their opinion @No1ZoiePalmerFan. Including the opinion that every board but this one hasn't been non-stop attacking Dyson for basically breathing for the last 2 seasons. I've been around the block and if you haven't seen Dyson with and without Bo hate, you haven't been on, LChat, IMDB, or Showcase in three years. Which given your handle, I'd say is hard to believe. But hey, you'd know best.

I'm not saying I like Lauren. I don't. I'm saying, as I've said before, her actions stand and fail on their own. She chose to break up with Bo. She chose to not tell Bo what the Ash wanted. She chose to hide Nadia from Bo and Bo from Nadia. She chose to not tell Bo her real name or why she was actually with the fae. Dyson did not cause those actions. Trying to paint him with the same brush is saying that you can't defend Lauren's actions on their own. And frankly that isn't a very compelling argument to me.
440. no1zoiepalmerfan
For your information, I am not the only one that believes that what Dyson did was spybang Bo. I have actually talked to other Dyson fans who agree with me! Just because you guys don't agree doesn't make it ok for you to tell me to let it go! I have a right to my opinion just because you don't agree with it! By the way, I'm not a Dyson hater, but IMO I believe most of the posters on here are Lauren haters. I have seen so many negative remarks about her it makes me sick.
Lauren is one of the reasons the show is as popular as it is, whether you guys like it or not! She brings just as much to the show as Dyson, Kenzi or any of the other characters. If she didn't, they wouldn't have made her such an important part of the show!
441. TheUberFan
I don't hate Lauren. I just don't make excuses for her, or anyone else on the show. There are times I had problems with what each of them have done at one point or another.

That you continue to bring up what Dyson did or didn't do as a reason to defend Lauren makes you look kind of obsessed, TBH. I personally never interpreted his actions as "spybanging" since he was in fact disobeying orders in order to be with Bo.

He was wrong in keeping the secret about Aife, but he wanted to come clean about that and almost did before Aife raped him at the cop shop.

But I don't use the mistakes or perceived mistakes of one to justify the mistakes of others.
Katherine Bloom
442. lsbloom
Lauren and the constant pandering to doccubus is one of the reasons the ratings are continuing to plumet and the storylines are terrible. So we can all state suppositions based on fact but without any correlary evidence.

You have every right to believe against what has been stated in the show. EA may even make you right one day. But until then, we will continue to argue what we see in the show. Which is Bo, Kenzi, and Lauren all disagree with what Lauren did. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with Dyson's choices in season 1.
443. no1zoiepalmerfan
I have been on the Showcase blog several times and I have seen just as many comments against Lauren as I have Dyson, and it's not always from Lauren/Doccubus fans! A lot of the comments against Dyson and/or Lauren have been Tamsin/Valkubus fans! Unfortunately there is always going to be haters, that is just how it is!
444. TheUberFan
I agree. There will always be haters. But just so we're clear here...disagreeing with what a character does or with a direction they're being taken doesn't mean someone hates a character.
445. drusilla_doll
@no1zoiepalmerfan: Perhaps you are lucky then, because I have seen the hate directed at Dyson and Tamsin fans, especially if they dare hope for either character to pair with Bo romantically. Dyson fans are seen as anti-lesbian, supporters of chauvinism and Dybots, brainless fans who are happy to see him just be shirtless and mindlessly sexing up Bo regardless of story. I've seen them question our judgment for supporting a 'clearly misogynistic' character. Supporters of Tamsin are accused of being traitors to the lesbian cause, shallow fans who jump ship for superficial reasons. They've been accused of supporting an actress who's anti-gay. It's become so political that it sickens me.

I'm sorry, but I only despise Lauren/Bo because they don't fit. They're toxic together and they gloss over their problems and ignore their issues. I'm all for a F/F if they truly work as a couple and don't have a thousand issues to contend with. The sad fact is that both Lauren and Bo are not prepared to fight for their love. Yes, they love each other, but their incompatibilities are significant enough that they pose obstacles which neither woman is prepared to jump over. So, sorry, but no, I can't support them. And I am tired of being called a hater, simply because I recognise the fact that love is not enough to sustain a relationship. Even in a fictional world. It has nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation and everything to do with compatibility. I believe in love, but I don't believe love can survive if it's not tempered by common ground, deep friendship, understanding and honest communication. All of which Bo/Lauren are lacking right now.
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