Mon
Jan 20 2014 11:28am

Lost Girl Season 4, Episode 10 Discussion: Destiny Awaits

Bo in Lost Girl 4.10, WavesDid you catch last night's episode of Lost Girl on Showcase in Canada? Let's discuss!

Here's the official description for Season 4, Episode 10, “Waves”:

With the gang still reeling from Bo's shocking announcement, Kenzi signs them up for an undercover mission at a mysterious corporation. Meanwhile, Bo retraces the steps that may lead to her destiny.

Note: This is an episode discussion post, so there will of course be MAJOR SPOILERS for the episode in the comments.

Want more Lost Girl? Check out Kiersten Hallie Krum's weekly Season 4 recaps the day after the episode airs on SyFy in the U.S. Read her rundown of 4.01 now, and look out for 4.02 tomorrow.

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239 comments
nypinta
1. nypinta
The episode with all the answers! Or is it??
Dine Stueg
2. Nocturne
I thought the episode was good, much better than last week. Lauren/Dyson/Kenzi work really well together as team. They were funny and they all got their time to shine. They felt more in character to me than in the last episodes. Kenzi was more her adult self, getting excited about a case and being full in action. Lauren was more like the Lauren of the show and not ZP. Dyson was charming and helpful. Lot of Kenzisms in this episode and hardly any love triangle talk, it was great.

The Una Mens slaughter was shocking and needed. They can't have all the enemies killed/dead in the last episode, that would be too much. My hopes are a bit up now that Bo's dark side (or whatever it is) is coming out and the disconnection between Bo and the others was recognized. I hope it will be fully addressed in the final episodes/next season.

So, the one who took the seed is going to be the third main bad? Thus, Trick is not that one? It would be cool if it would be Vex, they've never really addressed his evil deeds and he's never been redempted. But I guess it's more likely it will be Bo's real father.

Really excited for next week. Hale and Kenzi. Kenzi backstory. Return of Tamsin (hopefully more adultlike). I guess Hale will be involved in Kenzi's backstory and Bo will be included as well. Also... who's going to die? Maybe they will end with a cliffhanger with several people being badly hurt... and we will have to wait for the twelfth episode to see who's really dead.

@nypinta. I don't know exactly anymore, but the story about the butterfly went something like this: Bo was sad the butterfly died and that's how her adoptive mother knew she was good.
nypinta
3. nypinta
Looking at the hand again I can't totally be sure it's a woman's hand, but it does seem pretty feminine. And it is wrapped in bandages. So if Acacia has a way of having her hand reattached... but the hand looked much younger than hers. The is no reason for Tamsin to be in the bandages. It might be that fae that Lauren had tested way back in the beginning...?

And IIRC all Bo said was "Oh good, you're all here" and then the Una Mens lady launched into Bo breaking their law again. How, exactly, did she do that? Freeing Rainer? How would she know that freeing him was against their law? They are supposed to uphold Trick's laws. Did he write in the laws no rescuing of cursed fae with memory issues? That's pretty darn specific! And their decision to go after all of her friends and family as punishment... yeah, I'm not sorry they're gone. I just can't care. They needed to go. They cleary declare sentences based on emotion and what helps them, which is the exact opposite of how any judiciary body should behave. They went after Dyson even though they knew he was innocent. They murdered fae (and humans) for an object of power. No. They needed to go.

I think I really would have liked to see, if not Bo and the others arguing about Rainer, at least Trick, Dyson, Kenzi, and Lauren discussing it after Bo and Rainer left. But they just skipped past it and had Kenzi offering lame excuses for Bo. Because her suddenly believing in destiny is a giant red flag. One that obviously Lauren and Dyson reacted to. And I'm sure Trick just went nus because of who Rainer is. BTW, why hasn't Rainer mentioned that it was Trick that cursed him? Or that he fought against Trick back in the day? I'm assuming he must have said something because I think the way she kind of looked to see where Rainer was when he first appeared in her doorway was one of 'you know he hates you , why are you here' kind of thing. I guess they need the idea that Bo is under some influence to give them a way to back her out of whatever she's done and going to do, but I think it would have been better overall for the season if they left out forcing the love triangle crap just to pull this destiny thing. Just have him be someone she sided with because of what he told her. I actually don't mind that they're lovers on top of it. But it just feels so messy with both Lauren and Dyson feeling shut out and the show trying to make it seem like they're both shut out. When really, Rainer is only getting in the way of Dyson since Lauren's already made her choice. Would it have hurt to have Lauren maybe be on Dyson's side just because she knows he backed off while she and Bo were together and she knows Bo is acting off over Rainer? Then I'd buy them as actual friends now and not just bonded by their one true love for Bo.
nypinta
4. Kat MC
I think this was one of the better episdoes this season, had more of the charm and fun and mystery solving that I loved from the first season. Honestly Bo and Rainer's storyline was the weakest for me, the most melodramatic and least interesting. Also the love triangle is bad enough, a love quadrangle is a little too much. So I'm hoping the hand belongs to Rainer and it will turn out the yes, Rainer really is the bad guy. Or even if he's not necessarily inherently bad, and maybe has the same goals as Bo, he is ruthless and willing to go too far to get them. I don't know what's happening. I find making him a new love interest a boring move. It would've been more interesting to me, if rather than let's have yet another character in love with Bo, let's have it be her father. Or maybe he is somehow. I don't know. I'd like Aoife to come back as well.
As long as Rainer ends up bad, and Trick not, I'm happy. I'd like to see Bo put in a position of chosing Trick (and everyone else) over Rainer.
Kenzi, Dyson, and Lauren were great. Easily my favourite part.
On the triangle note again, Bo is Fae and so unless she's killed will live thousands of years. Lauren is human, at best will live 90something. Either Dyson should back off and let them have their kicks while they can, or Bo and Lauren should be a little more realistic, and maybe open up to the idea of Lauren having a relationship with someone she can grow old with.
Kenzi's panty-stealing is awesome. I still think eventually, somehow or other, she'll end up Fae. Or dead. Hopefully the former.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
5. Kiersten
@KatMC Hi! Thank for leaving a comment.

I really think that hand is Aoife's (and I stared at it for a long time and am confident it's a woman's hand.) It could be Acacia's, but that wouldnt have the same impace. We know Linda Hamilton is in the next episode, but she could be part of another flashback, not necessarily still alive in the present.
When really, Rainer is only getting in the way of Dyson since Lauren's already made her choice. Would it have hurt to have Lauren maybe be on Dyson's side just because she knows he backed off while she and Bo were together and she knows Bo is acting off over Rainer? Then I'd buy them as actual friends now and not just bonded by their one true love for Bo.
Agree. I want to love their bromance b/c I love Kris Holden-Ried and Zoie Palmer scenes together, but it's too sudden and too overshadowed by Doctor Lauren having repeatedly rejected Bo but still inexplicably being a romantic choice for her. It undermines all the character progression DL did in the beginning of the season where she was all about standing up for herself even if it meant not being with the woman she loves for her own mental and emotional well-being. Now that claim of her agency is obliterated for no good reason whatsoever and barely even acknowledged anymore. It also doesn't help that DL is still taken low shots at Dyson whenever she gets the chance. Some bromance.

They skipped past anyone discussing Bo's "destiny" announcement in order to create the red herring that Bo was all bloody because she'd had a knock down drag out fight with Dyson and Trick (it's not like she wouldve had a physical fight w/Kenzi or DL) rather that that she was post factor her Una Mens Massacre. I do wish they had Kenzi's Angels investigating Rainer and pow wowing with Trick rather than a useless Fae of the Week case to unsubtly drive home how abandoned they all feel. But that just wouldnt be Lost Girl now, would it?
nypinta
6. nypinta
I kind of figured they were trying to play us that maybe Bo had gone so far over the edge she actually killed Trick, Dyson, Lauren and Kenzi... but I still would have preferred if maybe instead of the case, they interjected scenes of Trick and the trio of awesome going over who Rainer is and why he sucks and as they're talking we see soundless scenes of bloody violence as Bo and Rainer take out all the Una Mens. Might be exposition heavy, but whatever. I could use some actual expostion right about now. Because I'm kind of confused. We don't really have a solid timeline for when Rainer was turned into The Wanderer. We don't know who it was that actually hired Tamsin. Or who it was that's been sending randome fae women to Rainer on the train. I suspect that perhaps Rainer himself forsaw his defeat at the hands of Trick and knew what he was going to do so he set certain things in motion, like sending out bounty hunters to find certain fae women that fit a particular description. I mean, that leviathan did kind of look like Bo so... I can see someone 600 years ago thinking she might be "the one" to free him. And he might have known that "the one" would revive the butterfly so he set that up so he'd know when she arrived. But without his memories he isn't the vile creature that Tamsin remembers that hired him way back when.

Also... if Bo knew that Lauren and Kenzi were in danger while she was gone is she ever going to mention that to them? She who hates secrets? Because that's kind of a doozy to keep.
Carmen Pinzon
7. bungluna
How is Kenzie getting all these clients? Is she still posted in some bulletin board or what?

Way to hoard your secrest until it's too late, Trick!

And asking AE to actually have exposition and have a plot that makes sense is too much. It kills drama , dont'cha know?
Nadine Robb
8. cmm
@Bungluna I think we're supposed to believe (even with all the crap that is going down) life is still going on. They still take on cases as usual. Trick's timing is always stellar lol! He wouldn't be Trick if he managed to actually warn someone before hand. Hopefully after all is revealed he will learn a lesson about keeping secrets.
nypinta
9. Stacymd2
I liked this episode.

Kenzi and Dyson really carried this episode. Kenzi looked good in her red suit. The mermaid CGI was good. The show gave us a lot of answers this go around. If Kenzi stole the underwear that Lauren was wearing then she is amazing and Dyson is the Yoda of shadow-thief teachers. If those pink panties were not being worn by Lauren at the time then the scene made no sense, unless Lauren walks around with a change of underwear in her equipment bag.

Like most interesting conversations and developments, Dyson training Kenzi happened off screen.

There was no reason why Hale & Tamsin couldn't be in this episode. TPTB should have had Kenzi say that Hale is working overtime at the cop shop to cover for Dyson missing work because of Bo. There also could have been a scene between Trick and Tamsin going over what she remembered about Rainer or the two of them searching through the Light Fae archives for more info.

I thought it was believable how Bo fell for Rainer. I don't think she was under a spell. Bo has a serious hero/savior complex. She saw Rainer as a lonely victim and lost soul like she is. He has all the traits of the other people she has helped. Rainer being handsome is like icing on the victim cake.

Even though the evil mermaid MotW plot was the most entertaining part of 410, I agree with what you guys said yesterday. TPTB should have killed it to either better develope the Bo/Rainer on the train storyline or shown D/K/Tr/H/Ta going over what they know about R.
Mary Beth House
10. UberFaenatic
No...no. Something's really wrong here.

None of the memories Bo has after Rainer glows her again mesh with what she saw/felt when Ianka sang.

But let's start with the fact that he glowed her in the first place.

He had Bo. He said he didn't take her, didn't know why she was there and that she should leave. Then he conveniently had a butterfly and a sob story and all the pieces that would make Bo swoon, being lost and fighting against tyranny...wanting to do the right thing, not knowing your place...

All of this is like catnip to our succubus.

Then there came the moment of truth...they're in bed and he asked her to repeat her plan to help him break his curse (so she's shared some of it if not all of it before)...which she dutifully recites then swears fealty to the dark with him as a witness...

Then he asks her, what she would do if they find out he's a monster and she tells him she'll kill him herself.

And then HE GLOWS HER, proving to me at least, he has some of his powers, if not all of them (He said he lost his memory and his power. Right?) And if he has powers that he didn't tell her about, how much did he remember?

And he does it right after he's ensured she'll come back willingly to free him which is required to break his curse.



That right there shows he played her. To what extent...I'm sure we'll find out.

And now...with that glow...there's more going on with that hand print than a hickey. We know Levi wanted it and thinks it was supposed to be hers....but we don't know why.

Let's go to Of All the Gin Joints, hmm? From her own memories...what Ianka's music unlocked:

Bo sees the crown...and is angered by it.

Bo sees the hand print...and says, "Oh no. No please. I can't do this."



This is not the face of a woman giddy and happy with new dreamboat man. This is the face of a woman who is totally freaked out.

Then there was Bo at the clubhouse with Dyson and she feels pain from the handprint.

None of this speaks of a happy time on the train with the hottie.

Basically...I'm adding one and one and getting swizzlesticks. Whatever Bo remembered with Rainer after he touched her again in Destiny's Child might not be as close to the truth as Bo wants to believe.

And I trust the memories Ianka gave her WAY more than the memories that were conveniently restored after Rainer glowed her again.

Also, just because Rainer said he couldn't manipulate memory doesn't make it true.

So no... I don't think everything is sunshine and Rain-Bos. I think something bad happened and Rainer replaced those memories so that Bo would do what he needed her to do...namely free him and kill the Una Mens.

And who knows what else.
nypinta
11. TheGardner
OK so this episode was actually pretty great in my opinion. Answers people, we finally have some fucking answers and holy hell there was some plot too! And once again Dyson was almost likeable, that's 2 episodes this season, wow I don't quite know how to handle it. In all seriousness, this episode contained a lot of the elements that I used to love about Lost Girl.

FOTW was actually pretty engaging and in many ways was the best part of the episode. I like that each member of the "investigative team" had a role to fill, and were able to inject some levity into things. Death by tap water had me rolling my eyes, but it worked in the same way that other monsters have been killed, i.e. the tickbablang's haircut demise.

The Shadow Thief training seems like a completely wasted plot thread since everything was off screened and feels like it was inserted only to make that panty joke. Also how do you take off someones underwear while they are fully clothed without ripping them? And since when does Lauren wear lacey purple thongs? Personally I would much rather have watched Dyson actually working with Kenzi than that stupid filler Krampus episode.

The Dyson/Lauren bromance worked better in this episode and seemed less forced, but that was probably because Bo wasn't around for them to immaturely bicker over. I wasn't sure after last episode, but this one confirmed it, Dyson is flirting with Lauren. Again I can't blame him, but still, ew.

Bo and Reiner, ugh. Yeah that's just what Bo needs another love interest. Also how nice was it of her to be canoodling with him in bed while being fully aware that Dyson and Kenzi's memories of her had been erased? Hello earth to Bo, your friends are in trouble maybe you should get off the cock and go help them, family my ass. I doubt that he is her destiny and judging by the opening when she is staring in the mirror she is questioning that as well. Also those two have barely more chemistry than TamBo, which cements them in the sub-zero zone. Also I hope that Bo killing the Una Mens actually has some consequences for her, unlike everything else, and will help her with removing her head from her rectum.

It was good that things from episode 1 were finally tied together and we finally have some answers, it just sucks that there only 3 episodes left. Seriously if TPTB would have trimmed the fat, namely episodes 4x02(one of the worst of the series) & 4x08, this season wouldn't feel like it's been stuck in the mud.
Nadine Robb
12. cmm
@Uberfaenatic I agree with you. That's why I have maintained she is under some kind of control. The hand power is definately a different power and has nothing to do with his only power of predicting moves. I think the hand power is why they locked him away and that's what makes him a dangerous fae. I also think the hand print scene comes before we see her in bed agreeing with him. I think when she says no and expresses that fear and is backing up that is him coming up to her.
nypinta
13. nypinta
The thing is... the writers had time to suss out this story long before it was being shot so I have hope that this season was a planned out one. Because they've been leaving to many specific clues for it to be made up as they went along type stuff. So I'm still thinking it's all going to make sense by the end.
I agree that there was a ton in this episode and we finally get some answers. (If they're not fake outs...) and as much fun as the case was, I still think that time could have been better spent on other stuff, like Trick, Kenzi & Dyson, Tamsin, Kenzi and Hale, Lauren's plan, etc. Or all of them gathered together to hear Trick out if Bo won't. Whatev.
But as for the flashbacks, there are two possible scenarios. The entire thing was a plant by Rainer to whammy Bo into doing what he wanted. Or the flashbacks she saw previously via Ianka's song were planted by Bo and Rainer to spur her on to find him. Because all of the memories that Ianka triggers Bo is wearing that gown she escapes in, which means to me the dress itself was another clue to Bo because it was something she would never wear. So the memories could be a part of Rainer and Bo's plans too. But the writers did insert enough that they can walk back on the happy sunshine time Bo had on the train as a planted memory and that Rainer is screwing with her.
Since mermaid pretty much just exist in the sea, are they Dark or Light? Does it matter that Lauren killed them? Why is it OK for Dyson and Lauren to be working together? If Trick was Dark but is now Light but now he remembers, does that mean he reverts to Dark now too? Are Hale and Dyson the only Light fae left on the show now!?

Do we have any other candidates for the person taking the seed? Anyone that was in Trick's place during that episode it went missing.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
14. Kiersten
Promo for next episode 4.11 is up! Looks like a doozy...

Here it is
Dine Stueg
15. Nocturne
That promo 0_0

....

A lot is happening.... I need to process this first lol
nypinta
16. katotela
God!!how i wish dyson would wolf out and kill that rainer guy.i dont like him with bo.i realy needed to say that!!nice comments guys.this is the only site i can visit that does not have people obssessed with teams and ships.big up to you all
Dine Stueg
17. Nocturne
Okay, I hate to say this, but it looks like Hale's going to die. A marriage proposal so soon... that's not a good sign for him living long. Kenzi is obviously crying when Bo is chi sucking her, another sign for Hale biting the dust. Hale going in angry siren mode, also not a good sign. I hope I'm wrong :/

Also it looks like Bo is dumping Dyson. He seems angry in that scene. Maybe Tamsin kisses him to comfort him??

I'm so confused...
Suzanne Metaxas
18. SuzyM
I like this episode somewhat. The mermaid story was stupid. I like Dyson and Doc working together, but in no way is Dyson flirting with Doc. He is joking with her like people who work together do. Doc is working with the Dark but she has not declared for the Dark or been claimed by the Dark so her working with Dyson is OK. I don't like a lot of things I saw in the promo for 411 especially Bo sucking Kenzi's chi!
nypinta
19. nypinta
Naturally I'm going to assume the scene with Bo chi sucking Kenzi is not what they want us to think it is, which is Bo hurting her. I think something happens to Hale and Kenzi is crying because of that and offers her chi so Bo can save him. Or try to, at least. But then I'm at work and can only see, not hear. Is it Sunday yet?
nypinta
20. JDKnight
I agree that Kenzi will either be fae or die. Unlike Lauren there is no way that she could fitinto the Human world. She was already an outcast from that society when she met Bo. The cyclops, Eye, after kissing her referred to the 'sweet taste of nymph' Everybody who has tried to hurt her has ended up either dead or mutilated - including Evony who lost an eye. If Evony wanted Kenzi dead - Kenzi would be dead. All Evony had to do was touch her and turn her into what looks like runny pizza. Evony always uses affectionate terms when speaking to Kenzi when they are alone - she only refers to Kenzi as human to other people. She and Kenzi seem to have some sort of history that has not yet been revealed. She treats Kenzi as more of a child than as a despised human.

In the very first episode Trick smiled when he saw Kenzi for the first time - he seemed to recognize her.

Kenzi has the ability to make everyone love her (as oposed to being in love with her) This made Lauren very jealous hen she compained that everyone 'dotes' on Kenzi. even people like Bruce and Vex love her.

When Dyson Kenzi came to rescue the Ash, Laughlan (sp?) said 'you are tardy little girl' and did not attempt to seriously harm her. It was Kenzi who explained to the Guppy who and what she was and who helps vulnerable Fay by talking to them. The rich Fae look down upon Kenzi but that is not necessarily because she is human, they may regard her as a sort of Russian gypsy Fae. Her profession would mark her out as a form of Trickster, possibly related to the Kitsume, which would explain that woman not reverting to fox shape after Dyson killed her. The only relative of hers that we have met was a fortune teller - a typical trickster profession. Trick and Bo are Irish royalty while Dyson is also Irish with Hale being Greek. Tamsin is Scandinavian. Kenzi is the only Russian, she appears to be a bit of a Royalist and patriot judging by her room decorations, but we do not know when her family arrived in North America - whether they fled the Bolsheviks after the revolution or if they are more recent arrivals. Whatever the case she has obviously spent much of her life in Canada. There may be old cold war prejudices against her Russian ancestry. Kenzi now appears to be slightly telepathic andable to teleport.

Fay are forbidden to marry humans.Why would Hale propose to Kenzi knowing that marrying a human would almost certainly result in boththeir deaths?

The woman most similar to Kenzi is Clio - is she Kenzi's birth mother? Does Kenzi know she is Fae? Is she Evany's spy?

One thing is for sure Kenzi will not be able to survive as a human in the Fae world for much longer. She has two choices and if she is killed off the show will lose most of its audience.
Nadine Robb
21. cmm
@JDKnight You have no arguments from me. I am one of the few that wouldn't mind her being fae or something close to half fae. We've seen it is possible via season 3's taft that she can be made into one. I seriously hope in that preview though Bo is not chi sucking Kenzi. Also fae come after you when you kill the una mens? I thought everyone found them annoying?

@nypinta I love your theory for Bo chi sucking Kenzi. If that is the reason I am ok with it.
nypinta
22. nypinta
I've often wondered about Trick smiling when he saw Kenzi going after Bo. Was it recognition of Kenzi or just realizing what it was she was going to do and knowing it would help Bo so he was amused by it. And if he was so "oh look, what a sassy human" then why is he such a jerk about humans now? Trick has called Kenzi human enough to both her face and to others when she wasn't around that he certainly thinks she's human. And I think Evony just appreciates people with brass ones. And Kenzi fits that bill.

I think Kenzi is human. But I think she is going to need something more than Bo to stay safe is she is going to stay by Bo's side. Which is why I think the writers added this "shadow theif" stuff. Which I personally would like to have seen some actual training on, or a bit of an explination of. I think maybe he's teaching her some magical way of using shadows to breach physical barriers or something...?? It's a fae world. I'm sure magic is involved somehow.

But Hale should just go get the damn Stick of Righteousness back for her. I mean, come on!
Maria Payne
23. Georgiana2494
@nypinta - I agree with you. Bo is chi sucking Kenzi to help someone else. If you look you can see that Kenzi's hands are bloody.
nypinta
24. nypinta
I also think the scenes with Dyson and Bo are red herrings to make us think she's cutting him off for good. But I think that with Tamsin, Bo finds out more about Rainer and it is him she starts to question. And I can't see who that is with Dyson at the bar. And I knwo there is like zero chance but WHAT IF Rainer is Bo's father with that power to bring people back from the dead and he brings back Ciara! I can see some of you rolling your eyes right now. And it giggles me. ;) But seriously, is that Tamsin? My screen is to dark so I can't tell.
Carmen Pinzon
25. bungluna
As far as Dyson's interaction with Lauren: teasing and flirting are two different things. However, bitching and snarking and insulting the wolf seem to be the same always.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
26. Kiersten
@bungluna - yeah, for every attempt to be nice to her and/or tease her, DL either take another low obnoxious shot at him whether he can hear it or not, or rolls her eyes. Honestly, I dont know why he even bothers.
Carmen Pinzon
27. bungluna
It's because the showrunners worship at the altar of WonderLauren, of course.
Mary Beth House
28. UberFaenatic
Yep it's Tamsin.

But since it's completely out of left field for both of them, I'm presuming it's consolation/bonding stuff. Because seriously. lol
Dine Stueg
29. Nocturne
@nypinta, lol! That would have been massive supertrolling if they have Ciara wearing the same hairdo as Tamsin and then putting it in the trailer to spook the fans XD

I thought one of the comments was interesting on the trailer, that Tamsin is wearing Acacia's jacket and Acacia dying. That would explain the picture of Tamsin visiting a grave and finding comfort in Dyson.

The spec about Hale being hurt/dying and Bo chi sucking Kenzi trying to save him is also very plausible.

So the right order of the trailer is probably Tamsin/Bo investigating. Hale/Kenzi proposal. Acacia/Tamsin. Bo/Dyson being attacked by zombies and Dyson getting his wolf on. Bo/Dyson talk. Tamsin/Dyson kiss. Bo chi sucking Kenzi.

Hm... since everything is so sudden and seems off... what if this episode is that they flash forward and are in the future? Bo sees the consequences of making bad decisions? (Oh well, it's lost girl, so crazy can always happen in the present time as well)
Carmen Pinzon
30. bungluna
Is Rainer going to be missing from this episode? We've got very little time left; they need to get their butts in gear or we'll end up with the usual rushed, crammed finale.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
31. Kiersten
I think its already a given that there'll be a rushed, crammed 2-episode, WTFery finale.

DL wasnt in the trailer too and I find it hard to imagine they'd leave her out of another episode at this point. Likely they just dont want to reveal what she's doing (perhaps with Evony?) and ditto for Rainer.
nypinta
32. stacymd2
@Kiersten: Thanks for the 411 promo link. Is the next epi promo out earlier than normal?

For a minute there I thought it was Acacia that Dyson was kissing. I guess its Tamsin.

@nypinta: I wish it was Ciara at this point.

@Nocturne: I think you are right...I think Acacia dies and Tamsin gets drunk and comes onto Dyson. Kissing Dyson would make anyone feel better. D & Ta have never been linked romantically so I don't see them getting together because they are interested in each other. Also...Bo may have rejected Dyson in this episode, plus if Hale dies...Dyson may be drowning his sorrows as well.

I really hope TPTB do not kill Hale. Just like Bo/Dyson, Kenzi and Hale aren't given a chance to develop. We haven't seen enough of K/H to be invested in them. Dyson - Hale have had little to no bro-mantic time. Wonder Lauren has been shoe horned into Hale's spot in the detective team. (damn I miss season 1!) KC has been MIA for most of Seasons 3 & 4. Killing Hale now would be contrived drama. No matter how hard she tries, EA is no Joss Whedon.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
33. Kiersten
That's a good point! Given that Hale & Kenzi are an item, it wouldve been MUCH more realistic/organic to have Hale with his partner Dyson and girlfriend Kenzi who also does investigative work look into the mermaid sitch rather than to shoehorn DL into that group (again). Ah, but then we wouldnt have had Zoie Palmer in a black bathing suit, so...

Its definitely Tamsin who is kissing Dyson at The Dal. But Tamsin already thinks Acacia is dead (she could be seen in another flashback BTW and not actually still be alive.) I do think this could be a Spike/Anya thing though.

It does seem like Hale's due for the chopping block, which I hate for all the reasons already said, plus it means one less man on the show, already a vanishing species and I DO NOT want Rainer to be a permanent edition.

Also, if after all this waiting, all the teasing, all the drawn out bullshit, all the fucking senseless, retconned doccubus we've had to stomach and suffer through, all to have Bo break with Dyson now????? Should that happen, in all seriousness, I'll be taking a hard, painful look at whether or not I'll be sticking with Lost Girl beyond this season.
Mary Beth House
34. UberFaenatic
I've seen interesting theories as to how that might not be Tamsin kissing Dyson. I guess we'll see one way or the other soon enough.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
35. Kiersten
Also, Tamsin is kissing Dyson; he's very much not kissing her back...at least not in that shot...so could very well be her doing another drunk meltdown with someone she brutally trusts, like with Bo and the bathtub.
nypinta
36. nypinta
From what it looks like though Dyson isn't as into the kiss as Tamsin might be, which was pretty much his reaction in S3 when she kissed him then. But I do think it'll be a grief kiss. Or anger kiss. Or sad kiss. With Tamsin, you never know. She does now have her memories of not only the lives S3 Tamsin remebered having, but of pre Trick Tamsin as well. And it seems that Tamsin had a lot of regret. That Tamsin might be acting out of that regret now. But I don't think it goes farther than that. Because I don't think Dyson will let it. (Even if Bo did just break up with him.) (But I could be wrong.) (But this also means that Dyson has kissed all of the main female characters on this show. Bo. Duh. Kenzi in the season opener. Not really Lauren but she looked like her, Flora. Tamsin. He's such a dog. (BTW, first time I typed it, it came out "what a god". Freudian...?) He needs to lock lips with Evony. Hahahahaha. Another triangle. Hahahahaha.

I do think that Bo is trying to tell Dyson that she's with Rainer, but I think that image in the book that Bo and Tamsin are looking at is Rainer and that he's the "love" that Bo starts to doubt even though they seem to be trying to make it look like it's Dyson.

And someone might die, but that doesn't mean that they stay that way. The Helskor shoes are still in play and Bo knows how to get into the fae underworld now. Plus the leviathan said she'd see Bo again, which means she anticipates Bo returning probably to retrieve whomever dies. And if it is Hale you know she's going to go get him for Kenzi. She kind of owes Kenzi. Big. Time. Or Hale isn't the one that dies but it's someone else and that's why he's all Hulk Hale in the promo, angry over the death of whoever it is. Maybe even Trick. Someone might come for the Una Mens seed knowing he was the last to have it and he gets killed in the process.
Susan White
37. whiskeywhite
I know the conversation has moved on, but can't resist adding my bit. I knew there would be people (not me) who enjoyed the mermaids. Great! Chacun à son goût. But the enjoyment seems to be more in Kenzi, Dyson and Lauren working together, which they certainly did well. But as several said, the time would have been better spent working on the Bo problem. As I said, filler.

Like several others, I was disappointed that we didn't see Dyson training Kenzi. I was looking forward to that. Of course it happened off screen! Grrr. I agree that the panty thiefing is impossible if Lauren were wearing them, but that's the point, that it's like a magic trick. Being a Shadow Thief, whatever that is, is Kenzi's key to having a role among the Fae other than being claimed by Bo. Dyson says explicitly to Kenzi, after he tells Tamsin the bedtime story, that there is a way that Kenzi can have a place among the Fae, without being Fae, and that he will teach her (I would quote him directly, but without Kiersten's recaps, I can't locate the scene).

Like @nypinta and Kiersten, I would be happy for Lauren to be a truly supportive friend for Dyson in the love department, but do we really see TPTB having Lauren say to Dyson, "You were really decent to keep your distance and give Bo and me our chance. Now I'll help you win back Bo"? The Doccusphere would lose their minds.

@TheGardner, I don't think Dyson is flirting with Lauren, but neither do I think Lauren is hitting him with low blows, Kiersten (if you're talking about the "that kiss was meant for me" kind of stuff). I agree with @SuzyM that it's friendly banter, although I wouldn't say like co-workers, unless those co-workers share that special experience of having shared lovers. :-) (I've actually been friends with an ex-boyfriend's new lover. All part of my "taking the high road" program. I can't say though that I helped them get together. I'm not that high.)

Next episode does look jam-packed. Bo and Dyson actually talking about their relationship (although not in a promising way). And yup, it certainly does look like Tamsin kissing him, from the hairstyle.

Hale proposing marriage (nice, but look out Kenzi, remember the 1000-year no divorce provision). I'll say again that the Fae #1 law is not against relationships with humans but that Fae must not reveal themselves to humans. That's what puts relationships off the table. But since Kenzi already knows (a great deal) about the Fae, no law is broken (although the Una Mens would probably have been snippy about it if they had not got their well deserved comeuppance). That's why the Bo-Lauren love affair was no problem.

Hale looks the angriest and most violent we've ever seen him. Is he saving Kenzi, and endangering himself in the process? I agree Kenzi offering her chi to Bo to save Hale makes some sense.

As @nypinta says, "Is it Sunday yet?"
nypinta
39. nypinta
It would have been just as easy in this episode to have Hale be the co-partner with Dyson s investigator but when they need bait have Kenzi call Lauren and still have her in her bathing suit. No reason why the four of them can't work together. Plus, we know Hale looks good in a suit. He would have fit right in with the corporate crowd. Could have come in like a client to try and get some info on the guy they were investigating while Kenzi was doing her snoopy thing.
Or, you know, do the other thing where we find out stuff about Rainer instead and Dyson training Kenzi, and maybe for Kenzi and Hale time, or Lauren and her plan...

Fine. It's not zombie Ciara. Whatev. ;P
Kiersten Hallie Krum
40. Kiersten
@whiskeywhite - no, I dont mean the kiss was meant for me" bit. I mean rolling her eyes when he teases about getting his favorite doctor flowers, and there was something else while he was pushing the mail cart when she took a shot at him too. The jock strap crack in 4.7. The "score one for the doctor" bits. The "I can't say I'd be able to choose" "I could" which, no, she did not say b/c, as a lesbian, there is no choice for DL when a man and a woman are the options. She said it because she thinks Dyson is beneath her, much the way she's admitted/acted like Bo is beneath her in her more honest moments. She claims Dyson is good at getting her goat, but it's DL who is constantly poking at Dyson, even when he's trying to do right by her in various ways. That's what I mean.
Mary Beth House
41. UberFaenatic
Actually, it looks like Tamsin. But that's the jacket Acacia is wearing in this episode, whereas we have two images of Tamsin in a light jacket from the episode.

And she's not a fan of Bo or Tamsin and could be wreaking all sorts of havoc.

I concede it could be Tamsin...but that is Acacia's jacket. So...
nypinta
42. Ron Grant
Man, everybody on here have a lot of interesting theories and preferances. I am sure of one thing. Rainer is Bo's father, of that I am certain. In Season 2, episode 8, she gets shot, when it seems as tho she is on the brink of death she stands up. Her whole body is glowing (the glow?) and for the first time she draws multiple chi. Then she starts talking about how she could be more powerful than all other fae. Was that Bo talking or was the Wanderer speaking by means of his possesing her. And then at the end of season 2 just after she defeats the Garuda and brings Trick back, with her body glowing and in a demonic, possesed voice, again she talks about reigning as Queen and all would bow before her. Then at the end when she looks in the mirror what was that spark in her eyes all about? She had a devious look in her eyes after that happened. I thought then that something nasty was just around the corner. Then at the end of season 3 episode 9 she starts glowing and draws multiple chi from Trick, Stella ( a hot looking woman I might add)Lauren and Kenzie. Then she talks about being "his daughter" is she talking about Rainer the Wanderer or who. I think the definite answer to who Bo's father is comes out at the end of season 3 episode 13 when Dyson comes out of the woods after having Taft for lunch Tamsin picks him up. All of a sudden they see the image of the Wanderer standing in the road. It's Bo's father she says. If anyone knows who Bo's father is, she does. Then at the end of season 4 episode 8, Groundhog Fae, when there down in the jelly bean factory Tamsin confesses to Bo about her being the one who found her for The Wanderer. Then at the end of it she tells Bo about how this " thing" would do anything to create his ideal mate. Even if meant creating her himself. There are other clues about Rainer being her father. But now the question is, will she follow Rainer and reign as Queen over all the Fae. Or will she come to her senses and realize she is being played. We all know she's a sucker for lost causes and always does what she feels is right. She's also still somewhat naive, if she wasn't I don't think Rainer would have been able to play her so easily. He has to have some kind of whammy on her for her to be so vicious when she killed the un-mens. I haven't watched the teaser for ep.11 yet so I'll be checking it out after this. But, when Trick went to see Bo after, unfortunatley she killed the Un-Mens, that Rainer would ask her to do so. Then he tells her about what would happen if she did. Did Rainer get her to do it so he could take possession of the seed? I don't think that Rainer was at the clubhouse when Trick showed up. Does anyone else feel that way? If not could he be going to get the origion seed to claim it's power? And what about the hellfire shoes? Maybe Bo gets the shoes and disposes of Rainer. But, worse case scenario, what if Rainer gets the seed and she gets the shoes and they team up? Wouldn't all hell break loose then. But I don't think that will happen, I hope. We'll see within the next three episodes, again I hope. One thing I feel sure of tho. The writers should work towards bringing the show back to it's roots. To what it was during the first two seasons. It was fun to watch then. Now we're left hanging at the end of the show wondering what's next. It reminds me of that show Lost that was on some years back. It always left you hanging like that. I got into it for awhile but I stopped watching it for that reason. I hope they start writing their way back into it being a fun show. As for the BoDyLo threesome I have to agree, it's getting tiresome. Get rid of Rainer and get Bo to pick a lover. And about halfway into the first season I told a fellow Lost Girl fan that Kenzie looked like she could be Fae just because of her eyes and she totally agreed. So lets see if her being a shadow theif will eventually lead to her becoming a real Fae. As to who dies....I'll wait and see. Whoever it is will be a surprise regardless. But will it be the catalyst that brings Bo back to her friends? I think if they keep playing the Rainer thing for very long it may make for the loss of some of their fan base. So lets all hope Bo gets herself straightened out and goes back to her friends. So who gets the seed, who gets the shoes and what happens when they do. I haven't watched the ep.11 teaser on youtube yet so maybe there's an answer to some of the questions I have. And one final question, what happened to that sweet Chevelle Bo had during the series premiere. Did the Ash add it to his car collection? Just kidding of course, but where did it go? Whatever happens I hope we see a season 5 and it doesn't take 8 months to come out. Go Bo!! Get back to the Bo we all knew back in Seasons 1 and 2. Now I have to nuke my meatloaf. I had just intended to read comments.
Carmen Pinzon
43. bungluna
Acacia's bit does look like a flashback, so maybe she's not back from the grave after all.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
44. Kiersten
Hi Ron Grant! Thanks for leaving a comment. Hope you enjoyed the meatloaf. ;)
nypinta
45. stacymd2
The hand reaching for the seed had bandages on it and the owner clearly had been eating strawberry jelly. My guesses are:

1) Vex - Ginger is reatached and healing nicely. We know he was at the Dal when Trick's seed was stolen. He looks like a strawberry jelly guy. I can't picture him eating grape.

2) Aife - She's banged up but recovering from Trick wounding her. She can sneek into the Dal using baked goods (strawberry jelly cookies) --- or her succubus powers. She could have stolen the seed the day Trick was called in by the Una Mens or when he was busy doing Ash stuff.

3) Massimo - He may not be dead because of Hale's twig, but lava is hot. He could have been burned. Massimo has some kind of relationship with Evony, giving her a powerful seed would get him back into her good graces. What goes better with Dark Belch than peanut butter and strawberry jelly sandwiches? Nothing.

4) The Keeper (Una Mens) - As we learned from Bo's Dawning, a knife to the chest does not always mean sudden death. The Una Mens could have stolen Trick's seed. Maybe The Keeper used the last of her strength to crawl to the seed to ingest it. This might fully heal her. I can't think of a better condiment to swallow a large seed down with than strawberry jelly.

Ok, I've amused myself enough for one night.

@Ron Grant: Welcome! This addicting blog has kept me up at night and ruined many dinners, but it's always fun.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
46. Kiersten
@staceymd2 - I thought of Massimo too and also that The Keeper could be still alive, but I'm pretty sure she's dead biut good
nypinta
47. nypinta
Besides, the Keeper looked like the type of person that would be allergic to strawberries. Would it be irony to survive Bo's attack only to find her one shot at living only to die because of an allergy after swallowing an all powerful imbuing soul sucking seed? Or tragedy?
Mary Beth House
48. UberFaenatic
There were 5 essences going into the seed... so that means Arabella expired.



And here's Acacia wearing the red jacket:

nypinta
49. stacymd2
@nypinta: I'd go with tragedy. I know Bo is supposed to be "Dark" and all, but...If someone threatened to kill my family, friends, me and topped off by calling my mother a whore, I would be hard pressed not to stab them in the chest as well.

I was reading Kiersten's 402 recap and was wondering who was the claimed human death mask meant for? Will we ever know?
There were Una Mens masks for "terroist" Kenzi, "doctor" Lauren, "mesmer" Vex, "Succubus" Bo, "claimed human" _______ (?).
Carmen Pinzon
50. bungluna
I can't tell if it's the same jacket worn by Tamsin.

@Ron Grant - I would love it if Bo and Rainer went on a rampage in season 5. That would make the show exciting.
nypinta
51. jonathandknight
The claimed human was Massimo
Mary Beth House
52. UberFaenatic
@bungluna... It looks like it is given the shoulder and the way it's cut.

And Tamsin's in a light grey/dark grey kind of jacket in two different shots (including the one that KHR sent out months back).

So if that is Tamsin, why is she wearing that jacket? It just seems odd when everyone else is dressed in the same clothes throughout the promo...like it's all the same day or something.

It could be that she finds out that Acacia is dead and she's reaching out to Dyson, who himself is sulking for his own reasons. Or it might not be. With this show, there's no way to tell til we see it. lol
Susan White
53. whiskeywhite
Welcome @Ron Grant. Good arguments. Like @staceymd2, I spend way too many hours here. We're irresistible, what can I say?

Warning -- sermon/rant beginning --

Kiersten, you list lots of good evidence of the barbs between Lauren and Dyson (and you know how I love evidence). But I think that it's the interpretation that sometimes goes too far, reflecting an anti-Lauren bias. That she says she could choose certainly means that she thinks, or she's playfully saying if one wants to be very charitable, that she's the better choice for Bo. But it is not necessarily at all saying that she thinks that Dyson is "beneath her." That's where the interpretation goes too far in my books and can't, I would argue, be supported by the evidence.

The writer of that article on bias that I recommended pointed out that there is nothing wrong with authors having biases as long as they admit them (which you freely do) and as long as they can back up what they say with evidence, preferably in her view (and in mine) directly from the text (which would be the dialogue and on-screen scenes in our case).

It is certainly true that Lauren has said negative things about Dyson in the now fairly distant past -- the "you could do better" crack being a prime example (although even that doesn't imply that he's beneath her). But in more recent times she has come to trust and like him, for example trusting him enough to pour out her heart after the breakup with Bo. So why would she think that he is beneath her? She thinks that her "brains" are her best quality but she sees other valuable qualities in others, including him (his strength, his "wolf", as she says when they set out together to help Bo), which she knows can be more helpful than her brains in many circumstances.

I don't even think that she really saw Bo as beneath her when she made those critical references to Bo's lack of higher education. What Bo was doing (practicing a profession where she was affecting people's lives without the training or knowledge to do so safely) pushed her buttons as a scientist and professional and she reacted. Lauren almost immediately apologized profusely and, I would argue, honestly.

As an academic I can relate to her reaction. But just because I recognize that some people don't have the same education or training as I do doesn't mean that I think they are beneath me. They may very well -- usually do -- have other strengths which I wish I had.

One of the most fabulous educators I have ever known was a Caribbean farm woman who probably had a primary school education but who was a charismatic leader in the farmers' and women's movements in her country. I SO wanted to be able to speak to a crowd like she could, explaining complex ideas to people so they could understand. I admired her deeply and certainly didn't think she was beneath me because I had more formal education.

One might argue that I have a bias here, in favour of the intellectual, Lauren. And I have admitted that in the past. But my plea is that in our arguments we treat these characters fairly and not criticize them for attitudes we've created in our imaginations without being able to back up our arguments with really solid evidence, conservatively (as opposed to creatively) interpreted.

End sermon/rant.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
55. Kiersten
sorry @whiskeywhite

Here's the link
Mary Beth House
56. UberFaenatic
Also... I'm pretty sure I heard either Linda say she worked with Anna this time or Anna talking about working with Linda... either way, if true, that means not a flashback.
nypinta
58. Stacymd2
@whiskeywhite: I can't strongly disagree with you more on Lauren taking very obvious jabs at Dyson, to his face. Dyson complimented Lauren repeatedly this season. Her beauty. Her "intelligence". You are ignoring many of the things Lauren has said this season and dismissing us calling her out as character hate.

Dyson has done more for Bo's ex girlfriend than a normal man would. THEN: Dyson helped Bo get the thing which freed Nadia from the curse. NOW: Dyson goes reaching for Lauren this season to bring her home, to Bo.

During the Krampus episode it was Dyson who said he did not hate Lauren any more. He forced her to hug it out. Lauren sat there with a tight smile on her face.

ZP and KHR are real friends. Lauren and Dyson recently called an open truce. They are feeling each other out, now getting to know each other as something other than romantic rivals. They were never true friends. They are not siblings. Over the last two episodes Dyson has extended an olive branch to Lauren. She can't pretend to be nice even when Dyson isn't in the room.

During the episode where Bo goes into Dyson's memories, when Bo says something about opera (?) Lauren smirks, saying scarcasticly that she did figure Dyson as an intellectual.

In this episode, Dyson says that he is bringing flowers for his favorite doctor. He doesn't have to say this, but he and Lauren are working together and he is trying to be nice. Lauren rolls her eyes.

I think they have always respected each other as professionals, Lauren being a doctor and Dyson being a cop and strong wolf. That is not the point. Lauren has been taking mean spirited jabs at Dyson which I think she considers jokes.
Carmen Pinzon
59. bungluna
I have to side with the Lauren taking jabs at Dyson side of this argument. I wish I had a better recall of dialogue and plot details, but I don't. I just know that I was yanked out of the narrative several times by things Lauren said about/to Dyson that struck me as snarky/bitchy/mean.

Granted, I'm not a Lauren fan per se, but I don't think I'm being overtly sensitive in this.
nypinta
60. Stacymd2
One last issue and I swear I'll drop this, for now. Doctor Lauren Lewis, M.D. calling Bo out for pretending to be a relationship counselor at a holistic clinic is the height of hypocrisy. Karen Beattie is Doctor Lauren Lewis' real name. Karen is a woman on the run for her crime of aiding her brother with Eco terrorism. She built pipe bombs which were planted and set off, killing 11 people. Karen is wanted by law enforcement so she hasn't turned herself in or helped the authorities find justice.

Doctor Lauren Lewis, M.D. Stop and think about that for a minute, or three.
.
.
.
There is no way Karen could have gotten into medical school, graduated, gotten certified by a medical board and hired to do residency at a hospital as an actively wanted terrorist and/or criminal.

I know in most states if someone is convicted of a DUI or minor drug offense (felony or misdemeanor) they may not be allowed to take the RN licensing exam. I can't imagine a terrorist being hired as a doctor. To get into medical school there is a full background check.

Karen, aka Lauren, must have gotten her medical degree, certification and license with a false identity, which is illegal and none of which would be valid for her to practice medicine on humans. At best Lauren is a trained doctor with a no license. At worst, Lauren is lying about being a doctor.

Even if Karen did all of her medical training, etc before building the pipe bombs and killing 11 people, her license to practice medicine would be revoked because she is a wanted criminal.

Lauren getting on Bo is hypocritical. She is practicing medicine on the Fae, doing research and publishing without a license and through a false identity.

I know keep harping on this, but if Doccubus & the show didn't keep bringing it up...Lauren is NOT a slave, nor has she ever been. Lauren is using the Fae to stay out of federal prision, practice medicine and life a full live. She is not atoning for anything and she can't claim to not have known what could happen with the pipe bombs.
nypinta
61. TheGardner
Once again whiskey and I are more or less on the same wavelength about this Dyson/Lauren thing. I do still feel like he was flirting with her, but I'll concede maybe he was just trying to be charming. Still, I don't see the big crime in Lauren rolling her eyes at him over it. So what if she doesn't think he is all that and a bag of Doritos? Maybe for her it is more like tollerating that pervy relative who drinks to much at parties and flirts with the teenage girls; he's still family, but you don't have to be best friends with him.

On to the promo, which I generally take with a grain of salt anyways. I hope that Tamsin and Dyson get together, he is so much less annoying when he is paired with pretty much any other female besides Bo. I thought the same thing last season, so we shall see. It looks like Bo is friendzoning him again, maybe for good this time, so go for it Wolfie, why should Bo be the only one who gets to have hers?

Boring relationship drama that I could care less about aside, I am really interested in Kenzi's story line. Why is Bo chi-sucking her? Why would Hale propse after they have only been together for 5 minutes? I'm guessing he dies, but how and is that why Bo is taking in chi, for some way to save him or is Kenzi hysterical and she is trying to calm her down?

LH is back so is this a flashback or real time? Is she going to be as underused as last time? Why is Trick consulting with Vex, has everyone else realized he is shady and abandoned him? And who stole his seed?

Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in! Damn you Lost Girl and is it Sunday yet?
nypinta
62. nypinta
I too have to agree that the many comments that Lauren has made to or about Dyson are too negative. Especially considering the lengths the writers have gone to have both Kenzi and Dyson comepletely change their attitudes towards her, first with Kenzi suddenly liking the doc just because she drops a line about learning stuff in Afghanistan in an episode that is supposed to be about bonding the two of them. Because Lauren does the same thing to Kenzi that she does Dyson. In that episode Kenzi is called out by Bo for her attitude towards Lauren. One, BTW, she has a right to. But she decides she'll back for her bestie. Then Lauren and Kenzi have to fend off the pig fae and Kenzi finds out Lauren was a war doc. (Supposedly.) So suddenly she has new found respect for her. Yet Lauren doesn't seen to return the favor. All Kenzi gets for fortifying the house and fending off the pig men until they get Bo back on her feet is one surprised nod. And even after this episode Lauren has made comments to Bo still about how people fawn over Kenzi or Kenzi being Bo's spy, like she did in the Dyson memory episode when Bo expresses surprise that Lauren would help because she's chummy with the Morrigan. And she acted like Kenzi was somehow in the wrong for never asking about her past (one she has a large chunck of she's kept hidden from everyone and wouldn't share anyhow so...?) yet she never has expressed an interest in Kenzi's past. One that is, in my opinion, a harsher one since Kenzi didn't go on the run for something she did, but because of how she was being treated. If living in the sewer is preferable to what is at home, something is seriously wrong. Yet Kenzi, since that episode, has said nothing against Lauren and has even been the mouthpiece for Lauren lurve ever since. And now Dyson is joining the chorus. The only off key (yeah, I'm proud of that), is Lauren. The thing is, there is no reason for the writers to keep adding these lines. The eye roll I get. The flowers thing was a bit over the top, but I get the feeling he was just joking too. Work banter. Except he can't hear eye rolls. It would have been funny if he had said right after, "don't roll your eyes at me" meaning he knows exactly how she would react and finds it funny. THEN it would be work banter.

Their scene at the end of S2 after he lost Ciara and she lost Nadia felt natural. Them together after she broke up with Bo felt natural. Them getting chummy in Groundhog Fae was funny because everyone was juiced up on chumby, so even if it was out of character, it had a reason and it was meta. Since then? Things are skewed to him constantly offering compliments and her offering disses.

It's not so much a bias against Lauren as it is a bias against unnecessary jabs while others offer unecessary praise and neither that add anything to the story.
nypinta
63. Ron G.
Just a mornin ramble here. Origin seed, hellfire shoes, who gets what and what happens after that. And who actually did erase everyones memory anyway. Not seeing Dyson training Kenzie to be a shadow theif if for even a little bit during one of the episodes was/is a bummer. Dr. Lauren and Dyson are just exchanging frieindly banter with each other, but with I think, an undertone of jealousy as to who should be Bo's lover. But they have definitely become close friends now. And did Rainer know about what would happen if Bo killed all the Una Mens. And who stole the origin seed from Tricks vault. I think it was one of the Una Mens flunkies. It was in their lair at the end of episode 10, and those 3 look like a shifty bunch. And lauren has something going on that she has not told anyone about. And that is Evony's DNA, what is she going to do with that. A new beginning, for what or who? Is she thinking about pulling a Taft or is she looking for a way to defeat Evony. Tyrannical rule on the rise, could Rainer be talking about himself. After all, there was that crown with the name Isabeau on it. And there was that comment she made just before she revived Dyson about her being "his daughter" and how they will rule side by side. So, Kenzie, Lauren and Dyson. They are a good team, and Trick showed Bo a book about 4" thick back in what season one? It had all the different kinds of Fae in it. So maybe the writers will take a look thru it and show us what other kinds of Fae there are. I won't speculate on that episode 11 teaser. I'll just wait til Monday to see what happens. I'm not obsessing over the Chevelle, but where did it go? That Camaro she's driving now would never take a sticker here in N.H. there's just too much rust. The woman needs new wheels.
nypinta
64. nypinta
Two options come to mind: 1) I wonder if the crow fae were under orders to trigger a memory spell when they found Bo and were ready to whisk her away to the train. It might be normal operating procedure when bringing someone to the train, to wipe their memory from their friends so no one tries to look for them. Somehow Rainer is able to see what is going on in the real world, because he knew that Kenzi was going to break the spell and he implied that when that happened, Bo would forget him and what they had planned and she'd make her escape. The memory spell might have two purposes: one to keep the people left behind from trying to find the missing person and the second is so the person on the train retains there's while the spell is in place. 2) The other thing one could take from his statement about Kenzi breaking the spell is that he says it right after Bo asks if her friends are still safe, so it felt like he was the one responsible for the spell and that he placed it on them to keep them safe from the Una Mens. (How, I have no idea. But it seems that when the spell was broke, it also woke up the Una Mens too. So maybe the spell was keeping them in their wormy seed form.)

I think the fae impounded her car so she wouldn't leave and Bo just got herself another one because she wasn't about to jump through any of their hoops to get her car back. But I agree, she needs a new car.

It's unclear how far Rainer's powers go. He didn't seem to have them until the Keeper threw that card back at him, so at that point he wouldn't have known about the sixth seed. I think his plan was to kill them all and remove a toxic element in fae society: an unyielding cruel body that had ultimate judgement on a fae based on what he considers hurtful laws. I do see his point. The sixth seed being in play is because Trick didn't do what he was supposed to back in the day and now puts them all at jeopardy. Again. Way to go Trick!

I think maybe it is the Keeper's hand. The seed went missing after the Una Mens showed up in Trick's to fetch him for his meeting. I think she did know he was the Blood King and that he had the seed and the offer of acting Ash was a distraction to find the seed for herself. The Bo and Rainer attack and the only way to save herself is to absorb all the power.

Or it's Aife, still wounded from her confrontatin with Trick. But if he kept her in his cellar and didn't do something about her wounds, he is an even bigger ass that the flashbacks make him out to be.

Or it's Hale, newly wounded from his encounter with Ianka's Death Note and he was at Trick's seeking his help because it's not like the Light fae have a genius doctor anymore, do they?

I can't think of anyone else it could logically be. No one else had access to Trick's rooms in the Dal.
Mary Beth House
65. UberFaenatic
The location of the seed at the end of Waves looks dank and dark... like a sub basement or pit or something.

The hand looks caucasian... obviously wounded.

Both of those scenarios speak to the hand possibly being either Massimo (who may have survived his lava bath courtesy the Twig of Zamora) or Aife, who wounded Trick and I would imagine was wounded herself...perhaps captured by Trick and left in his basement, with no one to feed on to heal.

I don't believe it's Arabella for the reasons mentioned above. Five essences went into the seed...she was one of the five.

As for the teaser...I'm really worried about Kenzi. She was shaken and bloody when Bo is feeding off of her, which is a first I think. Other than post Dawning when Bo super chi sucked the room to reboot Dyson, she had never really experienced (nor had any reason to) the extent of Bo's powers. So seeing her taking Kenzi's chi is doing all kinds of things to my psyche...because that portends a desperate or tragic scenario for my girl. :(

Regarding the Tamsin/Dyson kiss... I agree obviously it could be Tamsin...but she is wearing the jacket Acacia is wearing. And we know (or I believe I heard) that LH is doing her scenes with Anna this time around, or the majority of her scenes, whereas obviously she spent all her time with Rachel last time around.

Am I spinning a little? Sure. Because that kind of kiss between them is coming out of literally nowhere. So either there is a desperate scenario and Tamsin and Dyson are making out because of said desperate scenario...or that's not Tamsin.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
66. Kiersten
There's also the fact that Dyson is very much not engaged in the kiss and that Tamsin has a history of planting one on him out of nowhere and a history of being sexually aggressive when she's emotionally distraught. Perhaps the jacket was a parting gift from Acacia and/or a rememberance Tamsin took if Acacia winds up dead for good. Ditto if Acacia sacrifices herself for Tamsin's sake.
Mary Beth House
67. UberFaenatic
That's possible too.

Either way, it's meaningless beyond the moment, if in fact that is Tamsin, given what's been established each feel for another.
nypinta
68. nypinta
Why do I keep forgetting Massimo? Because he's another great choice. He had the twig, he's got fae hate issues. He'd be perfect to make a comeback as a big bad. Although in a weird way I was hoping that Aife would find the 6th seed and take it before the 5 got slaughtered and having that balance would make the Una Mens what they were supposed to be, which was an unbiased judgemental body and that their rulings would end up being fair and not unneccessarily cruel. It would be the only way Aife will ever have peace and it'd be something actually ending well on Lost Girl instead of ending in bloodly conflict. And be a counterpoint to Trick's cowardace of not taking the final seed all those years ago and Aife (or anyone else) once again paying the price for his inaction. Because I think part of the Una Men's short sightedness and willingness for cruelty was due to being incomplete. But, too late now!
Susan White
69. whiskeywhite
Please, friends, I am not "dismissing" anyone who criticizes Lauren as demonstrating "character hate." I deliberately never use such words nor do I hold such ideas. I tried to make a carefully thought out and worded argument about using evidence -- carefully, conservatively and fairly interpreted -- to back up our arguments, and about recognizing and thinking about our biases in doing so.

And I mean all of our arguments, not just about Lauren, although I was using the "Lauren taking jabs at Dyson" line of thought as an example. I'm not a big fan of the "Bo is a self-centred, selfish", etc. etc. line of argument either unless carefully backed up (some have made good arguments about this). And @TheGardner knows what I think of "Dyson is a jerk." :-)

The writers have certainly set up this "duelling of exes" scenario, as Kenzi called it in this episode. It's supposed to be them "duelling", taking swipes at one another. It's meant to be a funny continuation of the (much loved - not) triangle. It takes two to duel as they say, and I could point to several instances where Dyson isn't all warm and fuzzy on his side of the duel. But I won't.

Genuinely not trying to fan the flames, I'll just make one observation which struck me, because of this conversation, last night while re-watching this episode. The investigative threesome are debriefing about how they solved the mermaid mystery. Lauren says quite warmly and honestly, looking right at Dyson, rather than at Kenzi who's standing beside her, "We make a good team." Of course Kenzi is included in the team, but it's also a direct compliment to Dyson. Just one piece of evidence, not enough to substantiate a generalization about Lauren, but fairly interpreted I think and a piece that hasn't been mentioned here before.
nypinta
70. nypinta
@whiskeywhite, I didn't take your comments as character hate. Just FYI. I thought you had a sound argument and a unique perspetive. I don't compeltely agree... but that's beside the point. ;)

The thing about the idea of them "dueling" is that it is mostly one sided. In the past Dyson has had several things to say about Lauren. But since this season began he hasn't, with exception of one or two things to her face and in jest, and the stuff in the Groundhog Fae episode where they were both drunk. So while we hear Dyson calling Lauren Bo's girlfriend and repeating how much Bo loves her, we also hear Lauren making jabs about Dyson not being an intellectual while Bo is sleep talking. So, it's hard to see it as dueling. The only comments of them actually dueling where Dyson says anything competative to Lauren is after Bo blew them both a kiss (which, WTF? She wasn't sleeping with Lauren at the time and in fact they had clearly finally broke up, so why is Bo calling Lauren her lover anyhow?) and she said, "You know that was for me, right?" and he replies, "Keep telling yourself that." Which was actual dueling, and funny on both sides.

I did notice her comment about them making a good team, so maybe she'll stop. Maybe the comments were a last vestige of competativeness. I don't know. I just would like a little Dyson love coming from her, unasked for, like we've been gotten from Dyson and Kenzi towards Lauren. (And sometimes Bo, because I think Kenzi should be more upset with Bo than she is, but that's Kenzi...)
nypinta
71. TheGardner
I don't think Tamsin is wearing Acacia's jacket, but maybe. Ugh is it too much to ask the damn DP to actually light the characters? Also how can anyone say that Dyson isn't into the kiss from a 2 second snippet? From the screen cap it looks like Tamsin is sitting on his lap, so did she crawl under his arms, come on. He's single and she's hot, not everything has to be about love. And rember people were saying Lauren wasn't into the kiss from 4x05 based on the promo and look how that turned out.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
72. Kiersten
She's on a barstool. His hands are on the bar behind her and seem to be staying there through the kiss, not on her as is his usual modus op in a hot clinch. She's doing all the work; he's clearly waiting her out and not participating. That's how I read their body language.

I think he crouched down to her eye-level, as he is wont to do, to offer comfort for some reason and she made the most of it (cant blame her for that). But its only a promo so there's no knowing for sure. Maybe in the next frame he goes for it. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
nypinta
73. nypinta
I can't tell if she's on this lap or on the barstool and he's standing in front of her, but his hands on the bar say more about his reaction. His default move is to pull his hands up, usually onto her (or Bo's or Ciara's or when he's in Kenzi, Hale's) neck. So it's either still a bit of shock at her making a move and in the next second he sweeps her up, or he's standing stock still till whatever posesses Tamsin to plant one on him passes. Like in the boxing ring.

I do think she's either wearing Acacia's jacket, or it's just the lighting from the bar making her grey jacket look red.
Carmen Pinzon
74. bungluna
I kind of like the dark and murky lighting; it lends the show an air of mystery. (joke)

If Acacia is going to interact more with Bo this episode, that means there are too many major threads to weave: Kenzie backstory, Bo and Acacia and the seed, plus Hale and Kenzie and other sundries.

Already it's giving me a headache.
nypinta
75. Ron G.
I'm pretty sure that it's Arabella's hand. Wouldn't it be possible that her essence is flowing into the seed as she is dying? If so then maybe she had enough life in her to grab the seed. I played it back a few times and it looks like there is a quick glimpse of the sleeve which is down over the wrist somewhat. This is the same way that the sleeves on Arabella's shirt fit her. The hand, whose ever it is, definitely looks like someone in distress. And Arabella was definitely in distress. There's no way that it could be Massimo, he went poof when he fell into that caulderon. Vex, maybe, but I think that it's highly unlikely he's the one. Aife is one possibility, I think she and the Una Mens have had past dealings. Maybe we'll find out in the next episode. But that hand, whose ever it may be, will that be the hand that grabs hold of the seed. Or will someone else pluck it away before that hand can get hold of it.
At the beginning of ep.10 when Bo is looking at herself in the mirror she has a look of doubt, and again when Rainer comes up to her at the bed she says "I want to trust you" so I'm thinking that the whammy is no more. Then when Trick shows up and tells her that Rainer would ask her to kill the Una Mens she may then have realized that she's been played. We all know that Bo has always had a bit of naivete about her. Or so it appears to me anyway.
I watched the episode 11 promo but I didn't take too much from it. I just hope Bo didn't go into full sucubus mode and drain Kenzie of all her chi. And if she is (Kenzie) the one that dies I think Bo will find a way to save her from the clutches of the Leviathan. You can't get rid of Kenzie that easily. And are Dyson and Hale still detectives or what.
@bungluna, I agree, there are alot of major threads to weave. But we still have 3 more episodes to go. They should be able to tie up some of them. I'm a huge Terminator fan so seeing Linda Hamilton on Lost girl was a rush. I hope she sticks around for the last three (ALREADY!) episodes. One can only hope, and the last three episodes haven't even aired yet and I'm freaking out somewhat wondering if there will be a season five. I'm sure there will be, but after this season is over I'm going to do a Lost Girl marathon. Maybe even twice.
Suzanne Metaxas
76. SuzyM
OK Christine Horne just tweeted that she was killed by Bo so she is out of the running for the seed :)
Mary Beth House
78. UberFaenatic
Hahahahaha That's so funny @SuzyM! Remember the days when people would wonder and then ask questions at conventions??

Enter social media. LOL
Suzanne Metaxas
79. SuzyM
Yup, all sortss of leaks :) Just like those that followed Capt. Canuck knew the tango was going to be danced in the new season do to a slip of the lip by the captain LOL
Mary Beth House
80. UberFaenatic
Ha! That's brilliant.

Any spoilers about the next episode? Especially in regards to Kenzi?

No wait. I don't wanna know. :S

*holds breath 'til Sunday*
nypinta
81. Stacymd2
I got this from another site so take it with a grain of salt...Geoff Meech, the stunt double for Tim Rozon/Massimo, is listed on IMBD for episodes 411 and 413.
Mmmmm?
Mary Beth House
82. UberFaenatic
Well he's on our list as possibles... and his lava bath was so random...
nypinta
83. Stacymd2
The only spoilers we have for Kenzi are:

411: A visit surprises Kenzi
412: Prophecy about Bo from an order of Knights. There is a funeral scene. KS tweeted a picture of herself in a black veil.

Lost Girl's spoilers aren't worth the time to type out. They are never accurate.
nypinta
84. TheGardner
Maybe Massimo kills Hale? Also if Massimo jumped in a lava pit he wouldn't just be burned he would have melted, bones and all. I guess it is a good thing he had Hale's wood to keep him safe.
nypinta
85. nypinta
I'm more convinced that it's Massimo. I was so disapointed in how his character went out and Kenzi specifically mentions giving him the Twig of Zimora so I think that was on purpose and he'd be an idiot not to keep something like that on him, considering who he deals with all the time. But I can imagine that a lava pit is an awful lot for the twig to fend off.
nypinta
86. nypinta
For some reason I was going through the writers and directors of season 3 and I just saw that EA wrote the season 3 finale. That was a mess. I'm suddenly less hopeful everything is going to make sense by seasons end. How much of a jerk am I?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
87. Kiersten
Heads up everyone watching the U.S. run of Lost Girl S4 - time slots will be changing as of January 27th episode. Bitten moves to the 8PM slot on SyFy with Lost Girl back at its usual 10 PM slot again.

No info yet as to why or whether this was the plan all along (though I don't think it was).
Kiersten Hallie Krum
88. Kiersten
@NYPinTA EA tends to write the premiere and the finale for her season i.e. three and four. So no, I dont have a lot of hope for it all to make sense but I do hold a lot of hope for it to be full of heaping tons of WTFery
nypinta
89. Gail Peck
"Tamsin has a history of planting one on him out of nowhere and a history of being sexually aggressive when she's emotionally distraught."

I am kind of confused by this statement. When has Tamsin ever been sexually aggressive? We've yet to see her actually have sex onscreen, and there was only one brief mention of it with "Mr. Eight-pack" in 3x04. She makes flirtation remarks with Dyson, sure. But I've never seen her ever push herself sexually onto ANYONE, not even Bo. That one kiss with Dyson was a one-off, to show Dyson how pitiful he's been for pining after Bo. After that, it's never mentioned again.

Tamsin and Dyson are my favorite BROtp so I really hate to see this happen also. If the show runs with this, it'll only pave way for more doccubus, which is a sad, sad reality.
nypinta
90. nypinta
Someone on IMDB had an interesting theory about Bo's father. Someone named Brian (or David. Gah! Stupid memory.) proposed that Bo's father is the original Wanderer, Lucifer. Someone here mentioned that as well, and it could be. But he went on to say that perhaps Lucifer was responsible for creating all of the fae to counter humanity, God's favored creatures, and that he created the fae to create his perfect mate: Aife. I totally dug the idea of Bo's father being responsible for all of faedom. That just giggled me so much. It's epic and takes away the gross incesty feel of Bo being his created mate. Plus, how would Bo react to being the child of ultimate evil?! (Of course, fae version of Lucifer will probably be much less than the biblical version. Like Loki.)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
91. Kiersten
He @Gail Peck! Thanks for leaving a comment!
When has Tamsin ever been sexually aggressive?

I would call climbing into the bathtub with a naked woman who is not your lover and hasn't invited you in as being sexually aggressive. Just to be clear, I dont think being sexually aggressive is necessary a bad thing, depending on the circumstances and the players.
If the show runs with this, it'll only pave way for more doccubus, which is a sad, sad reality.

Couldn't agree more. I love Tamsin and Dyson's relationship as is (though I have previously made an argument for Tamsin being a better suited 3rd to Bo and Dyson if ever a threesome were truly explored than Doctor Lauren could ever be in every way.) I love that he's grown so fond of her and yet they still take the piss outta one another and that she thinks of him as her and Bo's wolf. But if there's one thing can be guaranteed about LG, it's that everyone and everything will be twisted and disrespected in order to keep doccubus alive in any way they can. Unfortunately.
nypinta
92. Gail Peck
But you see, that is the beauty of the bathtub scene. It's set up with so much sexual undertone, but Tamsin does not even once put a move on Bo. She delivers a heartfelt speech and then promptly climbs out of the tub and leaves Bo completely confused and surprised.

I do not see it as sexually aggressive at all. It is, rather, a moment of honesty and reflection, moreso for Tamsin as she begins to accept her predicament. Sure, getting in the tub is an invasion of privacy, but the conclusion that it's sexual can only be reached if she actually follows through with a sexual act. She doesn't.

I agree with you that nothing seems to be sacred on this show anymore. Just take a look at Denzi. I am just praying and hoping that what we see in the promo is misleading and that there's more to the scene than we're led to believe.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
93. Kiersten
It definitely is a moment of reflection and honestly. But it is also very sexually aggressive to climb into a naked woman's tub, hover over her, eliminating her "escape" routes should she need/want them, and touch her bare chest right above/nearly on her breast and leaning over to almost kiss her whereby invading all personal space to an agressive degree. Just because she was emotional and honest doesnt mean she wasn't also very sexually aggressive and no, she doesn't actually have to cop a feel or follow through with an overt sexual touch for it to be sexual. Remove Tamsin and instead imagine a man doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons in exactly the same way. Exactly.
Mary Beth House
94. UberFaenatic
@NYPinta...I suggested their might be two Wanderers, like if Rainer is a Wanderer but that there might be a bigger baddie..>THE WANDERER.

I don't know anymore. I have to rewatch the scene where Bo kills all the Una Mens to see how they regarded her and how that conversation went.

I am still very comfortable believing though that the "memories" Bo had in Waves were planted...but I don't know to what extent. There are just too many discrepenacies between what we saw with our own two eyes this season and those memories, which were custom tailored to succ her in.

But there are also discrepancies between who Tamsin, Acacia, the Kitsune brats, the crows and Massimo described last season and this season between The Wanderer and Rainer.

So... still a puzzle wrapped in an enigma, stuffed with a mystery.

One thought I've really been wondering. Why was Bo forgotten when she was on the train? It's Rainer's curse to be trapped and removed from history, not Bo's. Her being there doesn't change that fact, since she could leave any time she wanted to (meaning, not trapped but of course she had to use a station or other means).

Also....and I just thought of this...Bo, in her (what I believe is implanted) memory was told by the maid that if she jumped off the train, she would evaporate. But she did jump off the train and she didn't evaporate. But I think the memory was put there to make her believe that she didn't have a choice but to stay until the next stop and that she stayed willingly thereafter.
Mary Beth House
95. UberFaenatic
I think I'll respectfully dissent with the characterization of Tamsin's bathtub scene with Bo as "sexually aggressive."

I saw Tamsin as being a very broken soul in that scene. She has no sense of decorum or privacy...and Rachel Skarsten said that she played that scene as a confession of love to Bo...but the moment was not really sexually charged at all. Tamsin was not in anyway sexual with Bo.

She was however nakedly displaying her inner torment and didn't have up her walls like she usually did...and although Bo was physically naked, the scene at least from where I sat was not about sex or aggressiveness, sexual or otherwise.

It was heartbreaking and tragic...knowing she had to betray (or felt she had to betray) someone she felt was noble, selfless and loving and it was killing her. It was real and raw and I think showed that Tamsin just was tired and agonizing over Bo.

She could have turned it into a sexually aggressive moment had she kissed Bo, having "trapped" her like that. Instead, she says what she says...Bo looks like she's leaning in to kiss her and then...Tamsin's out of the tub and the snarky walls are back up.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
96. Kiersten
She climbed uninvited into the tub of a naked, clearly wary, woman after breaking into her house (admittedly, not hard to do at Hilton Hovel.) She caged said woman in the tub, touched her bare chest right near her breasts, again uninvited, and got very into her personal space. I dont care *what* her intentions were, how broken or honest she was, or how she played it, that is sexually aggressive and essentially the cold open of an episode of Criminal Minds. If Dyson or Massimo or Vex or Hale or any other male character had done exactly the same things for the exactly the same reasons and intentions, we wouldnt even be having this debate.

I'm sympathetic to Tamsin in the scene and I understand that it was a major turning point for her, but let's not make the doccubus mistake of thinking her intentions supercede her behavior when we all know were her gender different, there'd be no question as to the characterization of her actions as "sexually aggressive". Bo can handle herself against either a man or a woman doing those same things, naked or not, but that doesn't make them acceptable nor does it excuse them just because Tamsin was having an emotional crisis. Bo clearly, though wary, recognized that something was very off about Tamsin and was willing to give her space to play it out to get to the root of the problem. But that in no way changes the fact that Tamsin was aggressively invading Bo's space (while wearing a gun at first BTW) while she was naked and vulnerable and touching her intimately without being invited to do so.
nypinta
97. nypinta
I think they chose that particular scenario to show that although Bo was naked, it was Tamsin that was vulnerable. It could read as sexually aggressive, and I agree that if they had tried that with a man jumping in the tub with Bo it would read completely differently. Is it a double standard? Yeah. But it's true nontheless. (That's a word, right?)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
98. Kiersten
"nonetheless" is a word, yes.

"nontheless" is an NYPinTA special
Mary Beth House
99. UberFaenatic
Yeah I just have to disagree with you there. lol

It was obviously invasive, as she got into the bubble bath of a flustered succubus...but Bo didn't treat the event as being anything other than a bit weird.

Tamsin's sitting in her tub...and starts a conversation. Bo doesn't look to be in the least bit threatened or intimidated and she participates willingly in the conversation.

Bo is confused...but I just cannot interpret Tamsin's actions as being "sexually aggressive." I don't believe Bo did either or she would have responded more assertively.

She did see something was up with the normally standoffish valkyrie and anyone with eyes could see she was in the middle of self destructing...but there's just nothing aggressive about Tamsin's posture or attitude and Bo seems to regard the entire moment as being bizarre and sad and confusing.
Mary Beth House
100. UberFaenatic
Yes there is a double standard to be sure. Had Tamsin been Thomas, I'm sure there would have been a whole lot of people shrieking against the patriarchal madness of it all. ;)

But I can only go by what I see and interpret....both in Tamsin's posture and demeanor and intent...and Bo's response to it.

And I saw it that way too @nypinta. Tamsin was probably for the first time in who knows how long, the vulnerable one. Whereas Bo, who would be perceived to be physically vulnerable, was actually in the position of strength.

Fantastically counterintuative (or is it counterintuitive? Spell check fails me again. ;( )
Susan White
101. whiskeywhite
This was my response to Kiersten's info. about the US schedule change above. I stupidly posted it to another thread, athough (revealing fears about encroaching senility), at least a LG thread so I haven't totally lost it. Who can tell I don't feel like working?

They moved Lost Girl to 10:00 pm (ET) in Canada too this season from 9:00. Who knows why. Showcase also moved "Beauty and the Beast" to the same night though 2 hours earlier (interestingly, BATB is so PG that it doesn't even have the "viewers be advised" content warnings that LG viewers are treated to every time we come back from a commercial. Do you have those warnings in the US?) "Bitten" is valiantly up against "Hockey Night in Canada" on Sat. Either a death knell or a huge relief for women.
nypinta
102. Gail Peck
nypinta is correct. Bo's literal state of nakedness is a contrast to Tamsin who is emotionally naked in that moment. She even throws her gun away. Symbolic touch right there.

I also agree with UberFaenatic. If Bo displayed any sort of protest, it would be an outright invasion and unwanted. Judging by Bo's body language, she actually looks like she wants to invite Tamsin in, and that slight lean forward at the end speaks volumes.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
103. Kiersten
@whiskeywhite - Canadian scheduling doesnt apply to U.S. Syfy scheduling.

They set up SyFy Supernaturl Mondays to put LG, and Being Human first to launch Bitten. It was weird that they moved LG to the 8 PM slot b/c of how sexual and violent it is, but both Bitten and BH are at least on the same level so there was no choice there that fit 8 PM well. That after only 2 episodes they've now switched Bitten & LG has to be b/c of something that happened. I know many fans were wondering why LG wasnt it the 10 PM slot but its unusual for SyFy to change up a scheduling block so quickly simply b/c some fans were confused/unhappy. Which tells me either someone more important in the broadcast food chain called it into question or there was a numbers issues that wasnt working for either show that they're trying to reset. This is all speculation of course as I've seen nothing publicly but the announcement of the schedule change. Bitten has a graphic for basic cable threeway scene with a tertiary character its premiere and reportedly the nakedness and sexuality and violence just keep building as the season goes one, so it'll be interesting to see that play out now in the 8 PM slot.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
104. Kiersten
Bo doesn't have to protest for it to be sexually aggressive behavior any more than Tamsin's intentions or emotional brokenness changes the presentation of her actions.

She physically caged a naked woman in a bathtub thereby blocking all her exits points and then touched her intimately without invitation. Period. The end.
nypinta
105. Gail Peck
I suppose we're just going to have to agree to disagree because I don't see it in that way.
Mary Beth House
106. UberFaenatic
Okay @Kiersten. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. Because I never saw Bo as being trapped and I never saw Tamsin as being sexually aggressive in that scene. :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
107. Kiersten
I harp on this because it is these exact deliniations of intent that are used to excuse assault and aggression in the real world and when art is used to excuse such actions because it's a favored character or because it's a woman on woman situation or for whatever reasons, it just gives real-world jackholes the excuses they need to perpetuate the same thing and claim that it wasnt their intention when they broke into that woman's house and climbed into the tub with her and touched her inappropriately because they were upset or emotionally distraught or just needed comfort or were having a crisis or because the woman herself is known to be sexually active or whatever the reason. We cant say "it's OK because Tamsin didn't mean it that way" or "it's OK because Bo didn't take it that way" because she still did it and that is very much not OK in life or in art.

Sure, we can say "it's just a TV show, it's just camp, it's not meant to be taken that way" but then that same brush could be apply to all the people for whom doccubus is so important a relationship because it gave them the courage in the real-world to come out to family and friends, to claim that part of their lives and identity without fear, to find a community to which they finally feel they belong and to do that would be very wrong. Those are important real-world applications, impacts, and influences of this campy, sexy TV show and no less is Tamsin's sexaul aggression here no matter what her intent or emotional stakes or Bo's own capacity to handle herself. To excuse it for those reasons is to tacitly approve such behavior in the real-world and I for one am not prepared to let that go without objection.
nypinta
108. nypinta
Her intent does matter because if she had no sexual intent, it wasn't sexual aggression. It was just aggression. Other than the comment about Bo bringing a knife with her into the bathtub I don't think Bo's nakedness even registered to Tamsin.

This is a double standard, but it's one the show has been aware of since the beginning. In Vexed, the fae that attacks fae in her bathroom (which this scene with Tamsin called back too) was clearly a woman, because they knew back then to have her attacked by a clearly male fae while being so vulnerable would cause an uproar.

No one's excusing Tamsin's behavior. At least I'm not. I just don't see her getting in Bo's face, even while Bo's in a bathtub as necessarily having anything to do with sex. Which is the word that hinges most of the debate. I mean, when Norman Bates killed the blonde in the shower in Psycho it wasn't sexual murder. It was just murder.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
109. Kiersten
I think the fact that Bo was naked (she was wearing the kimono post shower/bath as I recall during the attack in S1 but I could remember that wrong) and that Tamsin touched her on her bare chest and got in close to almost kiss her and was speaking of and to Bo in a romantic/sexual fashion as adding the sexual component. Also, she put both arms on either side of the tub and hovered over Bo: that's a cage

You are all correct; we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Mary Beth House
110. UberFaenatic
But @Kiersten...while I agree that stuff on TV can be taken and used to justify real world crap, I cannot agree with using this instance with Tamsin and Bo as a means to promote that philosophy.

If Tamsin had been sexually aggressive, that would have been one thing. If she had grabbed her or really trapped her or whatever. She was simply present...which was socially inappropriate of course. But not threatening, nor aggressive.

Bo was never trapped. She was never fearful. Tamsin was opening her heart up and sharing with her. Yes, she was in her tub. Yes she touched Bo's chest where her heart is. But Bo was never trapped or scared or in any way offended or put off by Tamsin's behavior other than to be perplexed by it.

And I cannot remove the context from the scene and boil it down to the physicality of it because context is everything...that combined with the characters intents, situations and responses.

Even in the same setting with the same dialog and same physicality, the context of the scene would change immediately had Tamsin been angry, or turned on, or terrified.

Without the context of the scene, the background of that moment and the established relationship of the characters (in this case, somewhat friendly/somewhat adversarial at this point), Tamsin's role in saving Kenzi, Tamsin's role in helping Bo with her pre Dawning ritual...the scene loses meaning.

And at that point, you can see random female intruding on another's bath and then draw all kinds of conclusions and thoughts.

And jerks can and will use random things on television or otherwise to justify bad behavior. That doesn't negate the true value of what they saw or the moments they bastardized for their own cruel uses...nor does it take away from what was intended, what was shown and what was felt by each of the characters involved.
Mary Beth House
111. UberFaenatic
Another context is important moment.

In Sleeping Beauty School, Dyson and Clio are in a tussle. The umbella smacks her in the face.

A whole crowd of people online were screaming "male violence against women!!!! down with the patriachy!!!"

But the context of that moment shows that Clio either slipped unintentionally or intentionally and allowed the umbrella to smack herself in the mouth so she can put on this "look what you did to me!" attitude and throw him off his stride.

He was apologizing and she used that to go after him again.

Sans context, Dyson was cruelly beating up a poor smaller woman.

With context, Dyson was defending himself against a very powerful fae woman who used her feminity as a weapon against him and his galantry as a weakness that she exploited.

Context is everything.
Mary Beth House
112. UberFaenatic
Interesting tidbits from Twitter (which I have no source for, unfortunately so grain of salt)...

Apparently Linda's scenes will be with Rachel, Kris and Anna. If so, then not a flashback sequence.

Linda has apparently said Acacia has both hands.

My question is...what kind of fae is Acacia? We know or can assume that she was a mentor of Tamsin's. People have suggested she's valkyrie. In fact, I read somewhere that people were suggesting that Acacia was Tamsin's mother.

But I don't know how much of the above is spec and how much is real. Need sources! :(
nypinta
113. Darthfaeder
Sorry Kiersten but I also believe that Tamsin didn't even come close to being sexually agressive. Yes I know I am a huge Tamsin fan but I know what sexual agression looks like, and that bathtub scene wasn't it. Was it inappropriate behavior yes but that is Tamsin to a tee. I think that she was just about at her breaking point when it came to her guilt. People do crazy things when under pressure.
Dine Stueg
114. Nocturne
@Uberfaenatic. Promo pics are out, all about Dyson, Bo, Tamsin and Acacia... so they're all together in one scene at least
Mary Beth House
115. UberFaenatic
New stills from End of a Line...

Featuring Anna, Kris, Rachel and Linda:

http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/lostgirl/gallery4/gallery12/gallery.htm
Carmen Pinzon
117. bungluna
I hope Massimo does make an appearance; I did not like his abrupt ending.

Tamsin was being inappropriately aggressive, though not sexualy so, imo. And there is a marked double standard since the second season.

In the first season, there was no slut shaming and a concerted effort to keep any type of bias out of the story, but that went out the window pretty quick in season two, again, imo.
nypinta
118. stacymd2
@UberFaenatic: Thanks for the link!

I love the still with Bo, Acacia, Dyson and Tamsin. Do you think they are gift shopping for Kenzi/Hale's engagement party?

I love the fabulous jackets, and furrowed brows, in the promo pictures. LH's eyes are beautiful. She does look like she could play Tamsin's mother.
Mary Beth House
120. UberFaenatic
Tamsin looks like she's shopping...thus the bag. Acacia doesn't seem all that vengeful here... so I might have guessed wrong about her being the vengeful fae who goes after Bo.

Sigh. So many questions. Of course, I'm still trying to figure out what will motivate Tamsin to get on Dyson's lap and kiss him like what we saw in the promo.
nypinta
121. stacymd2
Here is my five cents about the "bathtub/sexually aggressive" convo. If any man, in the same mental state, had done the exact same thing, there would be no question whether his actions were sexually aggressive. It would be. Bo being a sex loving succubus greatly affects perception of the scene. But, should it? If Tamsin had done the exact same thing to Lauren or Kenzi, most of you would be grossed out not question whether her actions were sexually aggressive. It would be. Tamsin's intent was obviously different than her actions. The Bo/Tamsin bathtub scene was AS & RS's best scene together last season. It was raw and emotional.

Intention vs. Action is a great topic to have here...
Bo didn't intend to kill the men she drained before learning to control her powers.
Lauren didn't intend for her pipe bombs to kill anyone.
Trick's intentions were mostly good when he created the Blood Laws.
Dyson didn't intend for Flora to kill anyone or die.
Hale intended to make his night with Kenzi perfect during Yule, not piss/creep her out.
Mary Beth House
122. UberFaenatic
Also a good point I think @stacymd2...is that in recognizing context and intent, that does not excuse behavior in anyway. It just adds perspective.

Hale was wrong for what he did, and he acknowledged it. That's what saved that scene for me ... Bo was like, in a minute Kenzi will forget and Hale says, "That doesn't make it right," or something like that.

There's also the difference I think between behavior having unintended consequences and behavior that is inappropriate but forgiveable. I think Tamsin was inappropriate but the context and situation made it forgiveable for me.

Dyson really screwed up with Flora...but he didn't intend or know what would happen with the shoes. He is culpable for those murders only insofar as he was naive about what the shoes would do and took it for granted and as a result, people died.

Lauren's story about the bombs made her seem a bit too naive and trusting. She made the bombs and her brother planted them. She should have been more active in ensuring wherever they were planted would be vacant. So she is culpable by extension of her brother's actions as well as her involvement in creating the bombs in the first place.

Bo is a different story altogether. She was entirely naive...completely ignorant. She had no idea what she was and I believe had to accept early on that she had to kill to live. Can you imagine what it must have been like for her to understand this about herself?

So I think she justified it by feeding off of jerks and lowlifes...but it was still killing. So I personally "excuse" her behavior because she didn't know what she was...and even if she knew, she had no way to temper it at that time. Her choice was feed or die so self preservation caused her to do what she does.

Although that might just be rationalization on her part and my part on her behalf...but what were her options, other than to die?

As for Trick...I don't know what his motivations were. What we see from Tamsin's memories is a meglomaniacal monster dark king during the fae wars. He apparently wrote himself to be something different...but why and how? And the Garuda painted the picture of a king who knew he'd be sacrificed so he forced the peace to save his life.

Trick was distressed by this and the others assured him that it wasn't like that. But what if it was? When did he make himself light and what did he write himself to forget, besides Rainer, that made him believe he was good? What was his motivation to write that out of his own memory, as well as his past evil deeds?
Carmen Pinzon
123. bungluna
@Uberfaenatic - I've read several folk tales where a king has to be sacrificed for the 'fertility' of his people and when he tries to get out of it bad things happen. It would be a great backstory for Trick if something like this were incorporated into his character arc.
Mary Beth House
124. UberFaenatic
Well I took for granted that the garuda was lying about Trick. But what if he wasn't? Now that we know he has a Dark past, pretty much anything in his background is up for grabs.
Mary Beth House
125. UberFaenatic
Linda Hamilton discusses her Lost Girl return and working with Anna Silk and Rachel (SPOILERS IN THIS ONE):

http://entertainment.ca.msn.com/tv/linda-hamilton-returns-to-lost-girl#scpshrtu

Also..... I learned a new word courtesy that article. Revenant. I had to look it up. lol
nypinta
126. nypinta
Putting any man in Tamsin's place and yes there would be justifiable complaint. But put a particular man that has a similar relationship to Bo in that place and leave Bo's reactions the same and I don't think there would be as much. Imagine if Dyson showed up in Bo's bath and she reacted the same way, first by standing with the knife because she was startled, then relaxing once she saw it was him. He comes in the bathroom, clearly upset, but Bo eases back into her tub because she trusts him and doesn't think he's going to do anything to her. She makes a quip about taking a bath and he climbs in. Maybe he even leans over her while talking, and Bo reacts to him the same as she does Tamsin. I wouldn't see anything inheretly wrong with his actions towards Bo either, if at the end he just got up and left the way she did. So the word "intent" is important. But to be clear, I do think Tamsin was being aggressive. Just not with sexual intent. And this situation can't be compared to some of the examples above, like Lauren not intending to kill people. Lauren built bombs. She did intend for destruction to happen. She did intend for something to blow up. The fact that people did was something in the realm of the possible when they laid those bombs, they just hoped it wouldn't happen. That's not the same as someone getting in someone else's face. Which, I do think Tamsin was wrong for doing. I'm not saying her walking into someone else's place and getting that close uninvited is OK by any means.

Seems from the photos that Bo, Tamsin, Dyson, and Acacia team up for something. Wonder if Tamsin has the other Helskor shoe in that bag! (Which is a leap, but one I'm making just for kicks. Ha. Kicks. Shoes. ... Whatever.)
Mary Beth House
127. UberFaenatic
"Kicks"? Oh dear. Someone's been spending too much time around Kenzi. ;)
nypinta
128. stacymd2
Hey guys something was bugging me about what The Keeper said to Bo before getting a knife to the chest. She said Bo would be sent beneath Anyanka (?). My kinky mind started to hope that Emma Caulfield would guest on Lost Girl in Season 5. I listened again and I believe she said Irkalla. According to wiki Irkalla is the underworld/netherworld in Babylonian mythology where there is no return.

Irkalla is ruled by the goddess Ereshkigal and her consort, the death god Nergal. Irkalla was originally another name for Ereshkigal, who ruled the underworld alone until Nergal was sent to the underworld and seduced Ereshkigal. The deity and location are simmilar to Hel (Norse) and Hades (Greek) where both the name of the underworld and the god who ruled it are the same. Ereshkigal is seen as a warden and guardian of the dead, not a sinister ruler like Satan or the death gods in other religions.

About Nergal from wiki: He is a fiery god of destruction, plague and war and is related to the planet Mars. He is similar to Ares and Heracles in Greek myth.

About Ereshkigal from wiki: She is the only one who can pass judgement and give laws in her kingdom. Two major myths about her.
1) She traps her sister in her dark kingdom and her sister (Inanna/Ishtar) is only able to leave by sacrificing her husband (Dumuzi) in exchange for herself.
2) He commits some offence against Ereshkigal, banished to a kingdom controlled by her and then reconciles with her where she offers Nergal joint rule of Irkalla. Other myths has Nergal taking Ereshkigal as his wife and ruling the land himself.

Mmmmmmm? So do you think Lost Girl is using the Babylonian myth/religion for Season four's storyline?
nypinta
129. stacymd2
Oops! The "He" in #2 is the consort Nergal.

Fianl thought of the night...If Hale does die I will be extraordinarily pissed if TPTB make 412 about Doccubus, Lauren and Bo's woman pain. Kenzi is Hale's lover and proud fellow side kick. Val is Hale's beloved little sister. Dyson is Hale's best friend and long time co-worker. Trick was Hale's mentor and long time friend. The episode better be about them and their loss.

Oh, wait. This is Lost Girl, of course the entire funeral episode will be about Doccubus, Lauren and Bo's woman pain.

I really hope Hale does not die. During the first half of the season, the MotW cases were about lovers dying. Sadly, the episodes may have been foreshadowing Kenzi and Hale. (snif!)
nypinta
130. nypinta
OMG. I never noticed that. But so many of the cases have involved lovers dying. But that still leaves it open for the 'death' to be Hale, Dyson, Lauren.
If it's Hale, they better not focus on Bo, unless it's just her promising to get him back for Kenzi and her quest to do just that.
I can't imagine it will be Dyson because she's already brought him back twice.
Or it could be Rainer, but it'd be really weird for them to wait so long to introduce him just to have him and Bo together for only two episodes to get the audience invested enough in him we'd root for her to save him from the Underworld. (Ha. Underworld. The movie KHR did...)
Mary Beth House
131. UberFaenatic
Hey @stacymd2... did you read something to suggest doccubus coming back? :S

Also...we saw Irkalla in Destiny's Child. That's where Levi and Bo were verbally "sparring."

Also, I've suspected they're going more Norse than Babylonian, what with the runes all over the place, the helskor etc.
nypinta
132. Nypinta
I haven't seen anything to indicate that any Bo/Lauren pairing would happen in the last few episodes. Someone did say that it looks like Bo is wearing the necklace Lauren (supposedly) got her in that leaked video with her heading to a cemetery. So maybe some people are speculating a reunion based on that? I think it's highly possible that the season is going to end on another cliff hanger. And it's possible whatever death that is going to happen will be unresolved in terms of Bo using the shoes to go after whoever until season 5. And maybe they'll do a story about how being in the underworld changes that person. Maybe it will be Dyson & being dead will reset his mating for life thing so he can move on to someone else.
nypinta
133. Ron G.
Doesn't anybody think that Tamsin's being drunk may have affected her decision to jump into the tub with Bo?
nypinta
134. nypinta
I think her being drunk affected her decision to go over there in the first place.
Suzanne Metaxas
135. SuzyM
OK, if they break the mated for life thing I will be pissed unless he recommits as soon as he's alive again to solidify how much he loves Bo. Why is everyon so set on giving him an out he doesn't want? I have NEVER heard Dyson say he regretted giving her his love. In fact I remember him telling her that he didn't regret it even though he was suffering for it! It would make Dyson a real creep if he didn't declare his love for her again, either you love someone that much or you don't!
Susan White
136. whiskeywhite
Amazing discussion of sexualized violence, folks, it's representation in art (or more to the point, popular culture) and the issues of context, intention, etc.

Kiersten says, " are important real-world applications, impacts, and influences of this campy, sexy TV show." Absolutely! I agree 210% and have tried to make this point repeatedly about other issues. The thing about popular culture, and perhaps particularly TV, is that it normalizes what it portrays. So Kiersten is absolutely right to be worried what messages particular scenes are sending to the public. But other contributors are also right in saying that you have to look at the context -- the history and relationships between the characters, as well as everybody's intentions.

It would matter hugely if the person who stepped uninvited into Bo's bath was a man, because in the real world women have good reason to fear sexual aggression and violence from men. But if it were Dyson, Bo would have no reason to fear him, in fact she trusts him implicitly because of the history of their relationship.

Do women have reason to fear sexual violence or aggression from women, in the non-TV world? Not usually (and note that I did not say 'never'). Except in the world of anti-lesbian stereotypes where straight women fear that lesbians will come on to them uninvited. (Not to say that there is no such thing as sexualized violence among women. There is a growing body of research about violence within lesbian relationships. Ours is a world unfortunately in which sex and violence within intimate relationships are intertwined, regardless of gender).

If I've ever seen a discussion here influenced by folks' personal views on sex, violence/aggression, and body integrity, and possibly their life experiences as well, this is it. Great! But let's recognize that. There is no one truth here. It's always good to ask oneself, "Why am I reacting so strongly to this?"

Just to put my personal cards on the table, I think that Tamsin climbing into the bath uninvited was inappropriate. But her intentions were not sexual and Bo had no reason to fear her, even if that were a possibility, both because of their past relationship and because of Bo's awareness of her own strength. Tamsin was indeed very vulnerable and Bo showed considerable kindness in tolerating the intrusion and listening to Tamsin. That, to me, is another important message of the scene.
nypinta
137. nypinta
It's not about Dyson. It's about how the writers including that "mate for life" thing being such a crutch. When he said it in S1, I took it as a declaration of his intent, not a biological condition of being a wolf. That made it sweet and meaningful to me. He was choosing just her. Choice. Then S2 got extended and they decided to make what the Norn took even more tragic by making it his only love. Fine. That hurt. It worked in terms of making Dyson's situation one that needed to be rectified. (Thank god for Kenzi!) But after that, it's Dyson's inability to move on from Bo that made that damn triangle such a pain in the ass thing to have to watch. At least in S2 when he was sans love he allowed him be with someone else even if he couldn't be with Bo. But watching and knowing that no matter what story line the writers come up with, Dyson is going to be relegated to side lined lover reduces him as an individual character. At least with Lauren, she gets to move on, if the writers would let her. And wasn't she so much more interesting when it looked like she had for the first half of this season?

I'd rather a Dyson that loves Bo but has the choice to be with her and only her, which makes him being with her and only her real love, and not something that is a condition of his nature as a wolf. Because when Bo told him she was his, it wasn't because her nature made it so. She was fighting her nature because she loved him. And made her choice more meaningful.
Suzanne Metaxas
138. SuzyM
The fact that he chose Bo know what she was and knowing that his choice was for life and still chosing to do it made his choice one of great love too. Dyson was allowing himself to commit to a woman who he knew would never be able to be only his. I think think that was saying a lot about just how much Dyson loves Bo.
nypinta
139. nypinta
Not really since the fae seem to make decisions like that all the time that are permanent but become someting in name only, like choosing which side to be. It's a bit like saying he chose to fall off a cliff but once he goes over the edge it isn't him anymore doing the work, it's just gravity. Plus, at the time that scene happened I don't think the writers intended it to be an actual physical he-can't-love-anyone-else-mate-for-life thing; it was a promise. I prefer someone keeping a promise because they want to, not because they have no choice.
nypinta
140. nypinta
Not saying I don't get the appeal to having someone that looks like Dyson tell you that he'll love you and only you forever and you know it will be true no matter what. I mean.. come on! That would be sweet. No worry he'd stray. Unconditional devotion. Yeah, a girl could get used to that. I'm just saying that deciding his love on the show was a condition of his nature and not something he could move on from kind of stunts the story. It created the permanence of the love triangle and it's not something that will ever change for him so anything they do with Bo will make her look like a jerk for not being with him knowing that he feels the way he does and he did so when she felt the same for him.
nypinta
141. Ron G.
This dicussion about aspects of the show having real world implications is understandable. But LG is not the only show that does that. And violence against ones love was real long before tv or movies for that matter. But only since gender preference (gay men and women) has come out to open discussion has the reality of violence between same sex couples been realized. So if you are saying that this show has sway over people's thoughts as far as spousal abuse whether it be same sex, and I guess it's more about lesbians than gays, I would not argue the point. What that means is that I would respect their opinion but I don't have to agree to it. But if Tamsins getting into the tub with Bo, you're taking to much out of the scene. It's just a show, nothing more. What I saw was Tamsin with a good buzz on. She says something about not smelling so good. Bo says and I'm paraphrasing here, something like "take a page from my book and take a bath" at which point Tamsin, probably with a sounds like an idea attitude jumps into the tub. Once she's in it the realization of what she had done, finding Bo for the Wanderer, a wave of regret for what she did wells up in her. So what if she crawls into the tub, the script calls for her to be drunk. And drunk people do act impulsively sometimes. Tamsin was being herself, she was just drunk. And as far as real world implications of what we see on tv or in the movies maybe being a catalyst to incite domestic violence or any type of violence is concerned, if that were true then I'd be scared shitless of all the kids playing video games where all they do is kill. Actually I do, but so far we haven't had to deal with a generation of psycho killers. But LG is not the only show that presents these types of implications. It's just a show, that's all. I was talking to a friend years back about something along these lines. And the question we pondered was "does life imitate art or does art imitate life" I said they are two different streets, and sometimes they intersect. It's just a show, nothing more. So what if she leaned forward and rubbed her boobs on Bo. She was being Tamsin, with a real buzz on. She let her guard down long enough to express fellings, then the walls came back up. What I want to know is how did Rainer know about the butterfly.
Mary Beth House
142. UberFaenatic
I was reading some of the key character points Michelle Lovretta established about Bo and one of them was that she could choose monogamy if she wanted to and that this was an important distinction for Bo.

In Season 1, the pivotal scene between Bo and Dyson was where she was essentially telling him she was willing to commit to him, and he was like, but you're a succubus and that's against your nature to want that kind of thing. And she responded by saying she was not just her species....that regardless of what came naturally to her kind, she had the willpower to be monogamous for him just like he wasn't just a wolf and was so much more.

So I reject the notion that Bo cannot be monogamous, because the show established that she could be with a powerful enough fae. They also established she physically cannot be with a human. Any human.

They also showed that Bo has advanced since Season 1 insofar as her ability to regulate what she takes when she feeds off of others. Dyson was dragging and practically comatose because she had no of switch. When she fed, she fed. And that was pretty much all their is too it. She's much more able to control her feeding and pace herself.

I honestly hate the wolves mate for life thing because it cheapens Dyson's commitment to being about the way of his kind as opposed to his own personal investment. It also gives people a reason to take it for granted. Of course Dyson will be there...he's a wolf and can't help himself.
Carmen Pinzon
143. bungluna
I too want to know about the butterfly, among many other (anvil) hints dropped this season that will most likely go ignored, as usual.

As for the 'mate for life' thing, in S1 I thought that it was a promise. Then the Norn (freaking Norn!) took Dyson's love and we were treated to the wreck of S2. So now we're stuck with this and if they ret-con it too, it wouldn't surprise me, though it would piss me off. It's lazy plotting and writing to constantly ret-con everything because they DON'T HAVE A BIBLE AND CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THEIR PLOTS!

Forgive me, rant over.
Wallace Le
144. Sci-Fi-Enthusiast
Lost Girl has never defined what the powers of the Fae are and how they feed. What does Dyson feed on, regular food. Bo seems to forget she has the power to sap energy from opponents. So outside Taft’s fortress she stands idly by while Tamsin is injured. Tamsin later on uses her powers while Bo stands around. When Bo and Tamsin fight they don’t use their powers, it’s fisticuffs. Trick as Blood King can make any law so that his power Is omnipotent therefore the storylines are nonsensical. Nobody seems to be sure of Rainer’s power or the limits of any Fae’s power. When humans abduct Dyson the Fae run around like scaredy-cats, Trick runs for cover. Where were the Fae powers.

The Fae alternate between super-powered on a God/Goddess like scale to helplessness. We definitely need some backstory and limits here. Una Mens are powerful and big bads, next minute, I guess not, taken out by Bo. That was easy. Kenzi and the Norn, that was easy.

The Tamsin bathtub Scene is definitely extremely aggressive. IMO sexually aggressive. Bo and Tamsin were not friends, even so. Imagine a friend doing that to you, while you were in the shower. Oh yes, very sexually aggressive. Outrageously dysfunctional. It was a monumental invasion of personal privacy and space, and would be on the level of unwantedly sexually exposing oneself to another.The message of such an action is “I can strip you”. When I saw it I was discomfited but just moved on. Lost Girl has a tendency to clothe sexual battery in either appealing or excusable or ignorable garb. It shifts the point of view so that we are disoriented. It uses Female/Female situations effectively to confuse and misdirect attention from good old-fashion rape, sexual battery, molestation etc.

I do not agree with the position that Rainer has a spell on Bo, because the writers are leery of the charge of rape. If Rainer has a spell on Bo, if her free will to choose is compromised then Rainer has raped Bo. Then we would be in the position of excusing or treating rape as normal because it was portrayed in a less obvious way. There is a lot of sexual violence on LG but packaged in a way that invites acceptance, or excusing thereof.

There has been a suggestion that Rainer is an Incubus.This could not possibly be, because they would both set about draining each other of energy and would be completely depleted .
Carmen Pinzon
145. bungluna
@Sci-Fi-Enthusiast- I agree with you that the power structure of this fae world is woefully underdeveloped. In all myths, powerful creatures are usually constrained by some very rigid rules/laws. There are also consequences to using their powers. Here, the powers, their extent and the consequences of usage seem to be very arbitrary, constrained only by the hole the writers want to plug expediently.
Mary Beth House
146. UberFaenatic
Look at the Una Mens as a good example of that @bungluna.

They're supposed to be the most rigid order...the most black/white of them all. No exceptions...

...except to lie and kill in order to blackmail Dyson into giving them the helskor.

But even the Blood Laws themselve seem to be more shades of grey these days even though they're supposed t0 be adhered to by everyone except on La Shoshain when they all get a holiday from the laws.

Bo was the exception to that as she was unaligned and thus could breach the boundaries. Now they're like...Oh it's just a clan. Go ahead and bang whoever you want, regardless of affiliation. lol
nypinta
147. nypinta
It seems that this world is set up more like a Dungeons and Dragons game, where each fae character has a power of a certain strength but is only valueable in certain situations. Like Evony's seems like a hella powerful ability, except she has to be in physical contact with someone to use it. And Trick is extremely powerful but he has to have time in order to use his, and certain tools. So each fae has a power but it has a level and disadvantages that other fae can exploit, because they all behave as if everything they do is part of a game and the world is the gameboard and all other fae are game pieces.

I don't think all fae feed of humans, in the way that Bo or Evony does, by absorbing something intangible from humans. I think some are just supernatual creatures like Dyson. They implied that mesmers do feed from humans, so I wonder if taking away someone's ability to move on their own feeds them in some way. Because it was implied that when his family was caught and their hand were cut off they couldn't feed anymore. Dyson could eat people, I supposed. But that doesn't seem to count since technically (and ew, btw) humans could feed that way too. I don't see how Trick feeds off humans at all.

I think that Trick took off and eveyone scattered not so much because Taft discovered fae, but because of the shitstorm that Evony stirred up when she called a vote against Hale and then labled all humans as terrorists. I think Trick and them knew that this all was going to bring things down on their heads, like the Una Mens, or extra scrutiny by other fae elders, and Trick isn't usually up for that sort of thing. Plus, as powerful as they are, the fae are seriously outnumbered, so if Taft had more people on his side, the fight might not have been so easily won. Except all the people that worked for him were also written as complete freakin' morons so... defeat was cake. And yeah, I thought it was odd that Bo didn't bother with her powers at Taft's. Which is why I think they should have had Taft take over the property that Hecuba prison was on, and Tamsin had one of those stones. It would make sense then that no one else used their powers in the prison, but could when in fae thunderdome. And later when they fought each other, but Tamsin did use hers for a bit, but Bo was able to fend it off.

Sometimes I think also that the various fae feed off the reactions that humans have to their powers. Like Hale and his siren song. We see he can use it to disable, but he can also use it to make someone pliable, like the Fury he walked to his and Dyson's car in S1. So I wonder if he were to sing to someone without force if their reaction to his song is what feeds him. It seems that the more kinetic someone's power is the more they need in return from something to feed.
nypinta
148. nypinta
I just thought of something. So... Trick was a Fae King in a war when he wrote the laws because his enemies were closing in. After he wrote them, Aife broke them and he was forced to turn her over to a Dark Fae King, who was supposed to execute her, but didn't. Trick something something becomes corrupt and was supposed to solidify the power of the Una Mens to enforce his laws by swallowing a seed and joining their collective conciousness. (I do think that by not swallowing that seed and becoming a full 6 person panel, some of their personality leaked through and they were also corrupt.) He doesn't and goes on the run. He rewrites himself as Fitzpatrick McCorrigan, finds Dyson to become his second, and heads to the new world to create a new fae colony. So... if Aife was taken by a Dark King in the old world why was Bo born in the new world and taken by a Dark fae midwife to a human family (probably) in mid-west America?
Mary Beth House
149. UberFaenatic
We don't know when Aife escaped or if the Dark King who had her is the same as Bo's father. Theoretically, she could have gotten out of the frying pan (Dark King) and into the fire (Bo's dad) and then ended up in our literal neck of the woods and got Bo away from what she perceived as a danger.

I believe Bo's Dawning was manipulated in part by her father to make her see him as a loving figure and that Aife was the baddie taking her away but I suspect that's not the case at all.


I know Aife was crazy...but I also think that she was instinctively trying to protect Bo against a super evil father. Look at the scenes when she recovers herself (at the end of Season 1 and after she was stabbed by Taft). Her first thought is protecting Bo and loving her. I think that's who she really was without her anger and insanity...so who knows if or when we'll see that side of her again.

The time line though of her escape/removal from the Dark King is unknown. Is Bo's Daddy the Evil King who had Aife? Did he make sure she was sent to the new world? If he's not Bo's father, how did Aife get away from him or was she given to him by the Dark King?

Lots of questions.
Carmen Pinzon
150. bungluna
At some point after she escaped with Bo, Aeife was roaming around the globe unchecked. She made some reference to being 'big' somewhere in Europe, I can't remember where exactly.

Somebody could had taken the time to write some simple rules for the fae powers, like:

-The more power you use, the older you look, get, etc.
-Use power without replenishing your enenrgy and you may die.

If this had been done, then they would set situations to fit their needs. We wouldn't be scrambling all the time to find justification for the ginormous plot holes.
nypinta
151. Ron G.
@bungluna, Aife said they were big in Berlin, probably Germany. She also said that the Dark King, instead of executing her kept her for his entertainment. At the end of her Ceremony she says while in her trance that she is his daughter and together they (Bo and her father)would rule the masses. At the very end of the episode Trick is in his lair where he opens a small chest and in it is a picture of a winged horse that does not look to be a benevolent creature. He looks at the picture and says "not him" was he refering to the Dark King that held Aife in captivity. If so then maybe he was a shifter, able to go from human form to that of that horse. There is probably a name for such a mythological creature, but I have no idea what it would be. Anyway, in the episode Blood Lines when Bo is with her mother she asks her who her father is. That definitley hit a nerve. I don't think the Dark King was her father because of the way she reacted. Plus when Tamsin and Dyson were heading down the road the song The Wanderer came on the radio and the image of The Wanderer appeared on the road in front of them. Tamsin knew who Bo's father was because she was contracted to find Bo. We all know for certain that Rainer is the Wanderer because he held up that card with the picture on it. That convinces me that Rainer is her father. As for Bo winding up in the New World, maybe she hid on a ship headed there. And also I don't think it was a handmaiden that Willy boy had met. It was Aife running and looking for a place to hide and protect Bo. In the episode Blood Lines, Aife tells Bo she'd been watching her from a distance for some time. Could it possibly have been since she was a child being raised by her human family? Just a thought. Maybe in a later episode we'll find out....maybe. But I still want to know about how Rainer knew about the butterfly. That was the final indicator as to who Bo was. He had to have known about her when she was living with her human family. Questions, questions, questions. A lot of which we may never get answers to. Not to obsess over it, but how did Rainer know about that butterfly. And lastly one more question, at the end of this most recent episode it shows the essence of the Una-Mens flowing into the origin seed. Where is that seed. In the background there is a large air circulation fan. I don't recall seeing one in their lair at all. So where is that seed.
Susan White
152. whiskeywhite
Good point, @bungluna, about the rules for using powers and both of your suggestions are good ones. Trick sort of has rules about using his powers - he knows that if he chooses to use them he will suffer bad consequences, though he doesn't know what.

I agree that the "wolves mate for life" idea causes plot challenges. But we could also see it as adding an element of high tragedy to the story. It's a study of the noble hero who suffers mightily because of his fate and a fateful decision (the 'will of the gods' is omitted here although, as an aside, they do occasionally refer to "the gods" in LG) . The second season is a study of the ravages of that suffering (though it got dragged out by unforeseen circumstances).

Our culture likes to think that every human action should be up to individual choice -- it's fundamental to a capitalist economy built on the idea that workers freely choose to contract with employers, and in this case, a key feature of the ideology of romance. There's little tolerance for older cultural ideas about fate and the will of the gods (though of course "God's will" is still an important concept for some).

We believe deeply that individuals should be able to choose their own mates, although paradoxically we think that we have no control over whom we "fall" in love with. In this case the argument is that Dyson should be able to choose whom he loves, whenever he wants, rather than having that determined by other factors. He does have choice: as he says, he chose to give his love to Bo, but he only has that choice once. That's his fate, and he knows it, which is what makes his choice so important to begin with.

It's true that Bo is capable of monogamy -- with a person strong enough to sustain her physical sexual needs -- and she says that she's fighting her succubus nature for Dyson. But what we often miss in that story of Dyson's proposal to Bo is that when he tells her, "Wolves mate for life" with its obvious significance, her response is "No promises." She does not commit herself to him for life in return. Or for that matter, one might argue, exclusively. "No promises."
Wallace Le
153. Sci-Fi-Enthusiast
@whiskeywhite, well pointed out, particularly so about no promises can be made. I would like to offer the following take :-

Technically, Bo is not capable of monogamy.

If she is injured in a fight (she's supposed to be in regular fights, per the show) or any sufficiently injurious situation and her partner is not around, or her partner is injured or otherwise unfit at the time, then she needs to have sex with whoever is available for her to heal and live. Even if that person is her partner's enemy or best friend, or both may be needed.

She cannot promise to be in a situation where that will not happen. It has already happened on several occasions and the show arranged for Dyson to be there.

This is one of the great challenges of this show, unravelling sex from love, honor, respect, duty, and redefining in an ulifting and positive way what it means to love. Lost Girl could have truly challenged everyone, but is stuck on love means sex with one person forever.

Lost Girl needs to show that in Bo's case she can love without sex, like Kenzi, love with sex like Dyson, be open and respectful of healing sex with other partners, demonstrate caring in a sexual way with Lauren while uncompromisingly insisting on being respected for that by all her partners.
Dine Stueg
154. Nocturne
Synopsis for 4x13 from spoilertv:

Bo is forced to make the toughest decision of her life to stop evil from bringing destruction on her world

The episode is called 'Dark Horse'
Mary Beth House
155. UberFaenatic
@Ron G... a lot of great stuff there. Gosh I don't know where to start! :)

I think you're ideas about how the Dark King who had Aife prisoner not being Bo's father are sound. It's possible that once Aife got away from him that she was maybe taken by the crows and got pregnant with Bo...maybe she doesn't even fully remember the circumstances of her time there, if she was on the train that is.

We saw a picture of that furious horse again when Tamsin and Kenzi were searching Trick's lair but it was quickly bypassed...which suggests it'll come up again.

As for how Rainer knew about the butterfly...despite what he said in her "memory"...I think Rainer can and does influence memories. I think he's the one responsible for people forgetting Bo and for implanting new memories in their minds...and I think he took it from Bo's own mind.

So no one Bo knew remembered her...all physical evidence of her was removed probably by his minions.
Susan White
156. whiskeywhite
So fabulously put @Sci-Fi-Enthusiast:
This is one of the great challenges of this show, unravelling sex from love, honor, respect, duty, and redefining in an ulifting and positive way what it means to love. Lost Girl could have truly challenged everyone, but is stuck on love means sex with one person forever.
I agree completely (more than completely!). I think I'll embroider that on a pillow. :-) Your whole argument is excellent.
Mary Beth House
157. UberFaenatic
@Sci-Fi Enthusiast... I just don't agree with your intepretation.

She can be in a monogamous relationship where she chooses a fae mate who's strong enough to sustain her and is with them exclusively because that's what Michelle Lovretta established about Bo.

She cannot have this with a human...that was established in Season 3. But for general health and well being purposes, she can be monogamous if she chooses it even though it's not generally in the nature of succubi to want to be with one individual exclusively.

I think we're talking semantics here. Does Bo get injured and need to heal? Yes. But I don't equate or connect what she does to heal herself as "cheating". If she's hurt, she needs to feed to heal.
C. H.
158. SmurfFae
I think the reason everyone forgot Bo after epsiode 3x13 is Trick's curse on Rainer. He removed Rainer from everyones memories and put him on the train. The train seems to be part of the curse, that's probably the reason why Dyson forgot the train in 4x03.
When Bo entered the train and Rainer's domain, she also became subject to the curse and everyone forgot her.
When Trick looked at Bo's picture in 4x01 the blood in his veins seemed to react and become more dark/visible. Because the same blood was used to create the curse.
Mary Beth House
159. UberFaenatic
No I thought about that @SmurfFae.

Her being on the train should not have removed her from their memories, which were very specifically manipulated per In Memoriam, resulting in that mark in their eyelids.

It was a specific curse removing Bo from their thoughts that was specifically broken with the compass.

And yes, I used the word "specific" 3 times in three sentences. ;)

And when the curse was lifted, people remembered Bo and the Una Mens rattled in their wicker basket cage, but no one remembered Rainer because that was a different curse that Trick concocted over a millennia ago to remove Rainer from history.

I do agree that Bo and Dyson forgetting the train was part of Trick's curse though.

As for Trick's blood pulsing in his veins, I interpreted that as his blood recognizing her as his blood...his grand-ubus.
nypinta
160. Ron Grant
@UberFaenatic, I agree with you for this reason. Hugin took her to the cemetery and Dyson and Lauren found her there. From there the crows took her to the train. They watched her leave and didn't lose their memory of her then. So the reason they forgot her was because of the implants in the eye. So someone wanted all of them to forget Bo. And I think that someone was Rainer, he knew about their amnesia and knew that Kenzi would have the compass soon. As for the implants themselves, but how did they get them. It could have been the crows, once they put them in it's possible that the gang didn't remember their doing it. But, at the party held by whatever the snake's name was that George Takei played, Vex showed his implant and said that it's old world magic. Who's "old world" there? I don't think it was Trick, who is the one I'm implying. It wasn't Rainer himself because he can't leave the train. But he knew all about it and seemed to be up to date on what was happening. So maybe Rainer knows someone from the Old World and had that person do it. Just another question that we may or may not ever get an answer to. And I just read Nocturne's spoiler about episode 13 being titled Dark Horse. I wonder if that Dark Horse has wings?
Mary Beth House
161. UberFaenatic
Oh good point @Ron Grant...about Bo going back to the train. No one forgot she existed then.

As for the implants on their eyelids, those were a symptom of their memory loss, not the cause of it. It was physical, visible proof that their memories had been manipulated.

As for who did it... I think it was Rainer himself or one of his minions or crows who do his bidding. Remember Acacia was terrified that one of his people would make them pay for Tamsin's refusal to follow orders. So it's possible that he had someone powerful do it on his behalf but I do think he is at the root of it.

I think like I said above that he made Bo think she knows what happened when she was gone which, amazingly and "coincidentally" answered all of her questions in a way that would draw her in like a moth to a flame. He was a tortured hero. The others on the train needed her help. He didn't bring her there and was willing to sacrifice to let her go. All of that would make her want to stay or at least make her believe what she remembered was a reasonable explanation. She'd be okay knowing Kenzi and the others are safe even if she wasn't there. She'd be okay tricking herself to be dark as long as it was temporary, just so she could go back and rescue the poor man who was cursed for taking a stand for the people.

Too bad that none of that coincides with what we saw ourselves of the train, nor with Bo's behavior shift (ie...smiling when Massimo died).
nypinta
162. Stacymd2
FYI. TV Guide CA (theLoop.ca) has a Q&A with LH. She talks about her work on Lost Girl.
Wallace Le
163. Sci-Fi-Enthusiast
@UberFaenatic, I too don't think its cheating, sex in this case should be viewed as feeding; however, it is still sex, and it also is still intimate, it is still presumably quite enjoyable because a basic need is being satisfied.

I am thrown off-balance by the Bo character and what it would mean for how sex, love and intimacy are viewed. Bo told Dyson she's monogamous s0305 and was upset that she needed sex to live. In her situations she can't be monogamous. Trapped with a stranger on a train for a length of time she has to have sex.
nypinta
164. nypinta
I do think that Rainer knew about the memory loss by everyone that knew Bo. But we don't know for how long they were under it's influence. So it was implied that the spell itself was to protect them. He also implied that when it was broken, Bo's memories of him would be gone even before she left the train. Because the Bo we saw when she jumped from the train was not a Bo that understood that she was just going about a plan. She woke up confused and not knowing where she was, which is counter to what we see of the memories he recovered for her. Then she jumped from the train and even her memories of being on a train disappeared. So it was a double memory wipe. But when Bo and Rainer left the train they weren't effected by it's memory wiping consequence. Was it because he was with her? Is he also an elemental? Did the go to an elemental as soon as they got off the train?

He might not have known about what the butterfly meant to her. He might have just known that he was told that "the one" would be able to bring the butterfly back. They are leaning towards her as the object of propehcy. So the butterfly might be something he was told (by whom we don't know) just like Tamsin was given a description of Bo but not Bo's actual identity.

I do think Bo could choose monogamy. She could also choose to stop sticking her nose in other people's business and getting hurt in the first place. ;) But in S1 when Lauren first gave her the shot to curb her hunger she explains that the shots will also make it harder for Bo to heal, meaning she would need sex in order to do so. That is why when she got cut by the headless fae assassin she had to call Dyson. Then later in S3 when Bo and Lauren were together and they were demonstrating that Bo couldn't be sustained by a human, it turned out to be because of a combination of Lauren increasing the shots and Bo going through that fae puberty crap. We don't know what would be necessary for Bo to stay healthy now that she has gone through the Dawning and isn't on the shots. Notice this season she hasn't really fed much? The problem isn't whether or not Bo could chose monogomy or not. It's just that they seemed to go from Bo discoverng her family history while finding her place in the fae world to just Bo having to choose between two people. They've teathered Dyson to her with that short sighted 'one love' thing and for som reason despite Lauren having broken things off they act as if she's teathered to Bo in nearly the same way. No matter what they have Bo go through now the triangle will always weigh it down.

I think the title of the finale has more to do with who the third big bad because "dark horse" sometimes refers to the horse that no one expects to win the race. So the next two episodes will be Bo dealing with the after math of killing the Una Mens and probably with dealing with Rainer and the finale will be the introduction of the third big bad and probably lead into the next season.
Mary Beth House
165. UberFaenatic
@nypinta...They wouldn't need an elemental if they got off at a stop, or so that's what we were told.

As for the memories... I think the point is that what we saw apart from Bo's "memories" in Waves completely contradicts what she believes she remembers. The handmaid was fearful that Bo would anger "him." Bo's real memories that were unblocked by Ianka's songs were parts angry and scared.

I think Rainer fed her those memories when he glowed her during their fight to make her pliable to his wishes, ie, killing the Una Mens. If you consider all she thinks she remembers, they're tailor suited to her profile, complete with the butterfly and the tortured hero cursed for standing up against oppression that needs her help.
nypinta
166. Ron Grant
I think a man with foresight would be a master manipulater, also.
nypinta
167. nypinta
But all of the memories that Ianka unlocked for Bo were ones where she was wearing the same dress that she was in when she jumped, which means they are all memories that happened after the spell was broke by Kenzi and she forgot anything with Rainer. Bo never actually remembered Ianka in the memories that Ianka freed. She didn't remember Rainer either, or she would have recognzied him when she got back on the train. The memories that we got to see before she got back on the train were all ones that happened in a very short span of time, between when the spell was broken and Bo lost her memories of the train after she jumped.

I'm pretty sure that Rainer is manipulating her. Or Rainer and Bo are both being manipulated by someone else.
Mary Beth House
168. UberFaenatic
@NYPinta... I don't know. We don't know how long she wore that outfit. And we saw what she saw after she woke. We saw her struggling to get off the train, chi sucking the handmaid, etc. She seemed sufficiently Bo-like in that moment.

The memories Ianka unlocked had her freaking out over the crown with her name on it and seeing the hand print and saying, "Oh no, I can't do this." After Bo woke up when the compass broke the spell, she would not have been aware of the handprint...and if she had, she would not have been aware of its significance, nor that of the crown. And in the memories Ianka unlocked, she surely was aware of that signifance... otherwise why did she get angry at seeing the crown with her name on it? Why would she freak out by the handprint? What can't she do?

But the fact she was wearing that outfit in those memories helps support my theory that the memories we saw in Waves were phony.

Either way, having left the train, she would have forgotten being on there and Rainer and any of what really happened.
Mary Beth House
169. UberFaenatic
@Ron Grant. I totally agree with you. He's manipulating her. He I think can see in her mind and memories and knew exactly what buttons to push to get her on his side.
Mary Beth House
170. UberFaenatic
BTW.... Bo jumped off the train and didn't evaporate, which is what she had been told would happen to her in her "memory".
Carmen Pinzon
171. bungluna
Great observation about the missed opportunities of exploring the difference between love and sex. The show's veer back to morality with the "monogamy" and "white-picket fence" obsession derailed a good possible plot, imo. Why can't the fae have a different set of mores than human? This would have set Bo up with a better conflict, I think.

If Aeife was trapped on the train with Rainer and she'd escaped without benefit of an elemental, that might explain why she's so crazy but not why she seemed sane when everybody else forgot Bo.
Mary Beth House
172. UberFaenatic
I don't know about that, @bungluna...but can you imagine if she was one the train with Rainer and he got her pregnant...(Bo was after all "another brunette"...perhaps Aife was one of them) and she's sent back to the world with no memory how it happened?
Nadine Robb
173. cmm
I do not think Rainer is her father. I thought EA had said so herself in an interview. So far Rainer does not have the power to resurrect and that is what Aoife specifically said last year. Something along the lines of if your father were here he'd kill them all, then bring them back to life and do it again. Also another point at the end of season 3 you see the wanderer dissppear in a poof of smoke, unless this is a crow which i highly doubt. If that were Rainer that would mean he lied about not being able to get of the train.

Personally I think Rainer is the wanderer but not THE wanderer we have all been thinking of. Her father is still out there. Another point the episode with the witches where they get killed and the wanderer music plays, that we were told was Bo's father. Rainer does not have that ability. I think Rainer is a power hungry foe who will use anybody to get what he wants. I don't thin the tptb have thought this sl out that well because there are so many things that leave more questions and plot holes. For example, if the wanderer was erased from all history, how comes everyone knows about him before Bo rescued him? To me if he's truly a wanderer and erased from history nobody should even know he's a wanderer. They should all carry on as if he didn't exist.
Mary Beth House
174. UberFaenatic
I keep jumping back and forth on that @cmm. The one thing I'm sure of is he is not what he seems and he certainly isn't the tortured hero of the masses he made Bo believe he was.
Nadine Robb
175. cmm
I can agree with that Uberfaenatic. I know for sure that he is manipulating her. Bo is impulsive but she's never this impulsive. She would also NEVER ignore Kenzi, she learned that lesson season 3.
Susan White
176. whiskeywhite
@bungluna, I agree with your general point:
The show's veer back to morality with the "monogamy" and "white-picket fence" obsession derailed a good possible plot, imo.
However, I would add that there isn't just one morality, and humans don't have one set of mores. The show veered back to a certain kind of morality, one driven by the dominant Judeo-Christian religious ideology in North America that insists on monogamy, even if it is increasingly serial monogamy, and (nowadays though not historically) also insists on the linking of sex and love. Anything else than these two is "immoral".

They started with a radical idea -- a lead character who is both bisexual and a succubus. Lots of room there for developing some challenging ideas about relationships as @Sci-Fi-Enthusiast argued above. But then they tamed it down, fast. While the series has to be credited with showing Bo as having various types of sex for fun in a 'no slut shaming' way (though really only in the first two seasons), it all fairly quickly settles down into her having only two major sexual love interests -- one a man who wants monogamy and who, it is hinted, would consider marriage and the other a woman who also wants monogamy and wants to settle down and have babies. So much for being radical.

There is a trend of thought in the LGBTQ community that the political demand for legal same-sex marriage, while important from a human rights perspective, also represents the de-radicalization of the lesbian/ gay liberation movement (the 'taming' of its diverse sexualities in order to facilitate its acceptance into the mainstream) thus undercutting the challenge it used to mount to the dominant monogamous, heterosexual family model.

The show, in my view, is both playing it safe in terms of the dominant morality and catering to the mainstreamed lesbian/bisexual audience which increasingly holds monogamous marriage as an ideal. (BTW, I mean no offence here to contributors who might consider themselves mainstream lesbians/bisexuals who value monogamous marriage. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to escape and overcome the intense discrimination and violence of the past (and the present). But as we gain security and respectability, we tend to lose our radicalism).
Nadine Robb
177. cmm
Ok. Please excuse while I go into mouring for tonights episode. As for the blood drinking ew.
nypinta
178. Stacymd2
Oh, boy. So how was tonight's epi? I'm afraid to know.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
179. Kiersten
@stacymd2 - lemme put it this way:
I haven't felt this great an awful, empty pit of despair in my chest since the Norn (freaking Norn!) took Dyson's love for Bo.
Nadine Robb
181. cmm
@Kiersten me neither. But at least it tied up another loose end. I swear if this isn't changed this could be the end of me and Lost Girl.
nypinta
182. Stacymd2
Well that's good news...I guess. I can do sad as long as it has emotional impact and good writing and plot.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
183. Kiersten
At this point I really dont know. I figured it'd be Hale & we guessed a while back that Massimo may have used the Twig of Zamora to survive the lava, and sure, they're been heavy foreshadoing that Bo would use the hellshoes to retrieve someone from the Underworld, but Saving Hope is enormously successful and it all may have been just too much for K.C.
Nadine Robb
184. cmm
I seriously hope it is not the end of Hale, this show has burned us too much!
nypinta
185. Stacymd2
Did Linda H have a bigger role this Epi? Did she have a lot of scenes with Ana and Kris?

Also, the kiss between Dyson and Tamsin wasn't "real" was is?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
186. Kiersten
The writer of the episode, Steve Cochrane, just tweeted to KC Collins "miss you already!" so yeah, I think that's the end of Hale.

But the show loves to dick with us, so...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
187. Kiersten
The kiss was real, but they cut away to leave what happens next for the next episode.

Bo to Kenzi in cold open: "Dyson gave his love away and then he became a complete a-hole for, like, forever." Yeah, and you just left him that way and didn't go after the thing that took his love in the first place. Wow, she really never got him at all, did she? Way to miss the whole "didn't know what he was giving up at the time" much less the "willingly sacrificed what he valued most to save your life because you were too much of a brat to realize you couldnt go up against your super Fae crazy mother alone and then paid for it alone because you couldnt be bothered to do anything about it," But 10 minutes on a death train with a total stranger who you stronger suspect is evil and suddenly he's your destiny? Bitch.
Nadine Robb
188. cmm
I'm just bummed. I didn't even know KC collins was leaving Lost Girl. Guess there's always sleepy hollow, almost human and bitten.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
189. Kiersten
But then, they really like to mess with us, so resurrection could still happen
Nadine Robb
190. cmm
This is true too Kiersten. What I want to know is, if that is not Rainer is it the horse Trick was refering too?
Susan White
191. whiskeywhite
Rivetting episode.

I, too, think that Hale is gone. It was so sad that I could hardly rewatch that bit. KS knocked it out of the park again with her horror and despair and guilt because she gave the Twig of Zamora to Massimo which allowed him to survive (twice) and kill Hale. Hale got a chance to say, "I love you" with his dying breath but Kenzi never got a chance to accept his marriage proposal. And we were right that Bo was succusucking Kenzi at her own desperate request to save Hale.

KS was also her wonderful self in the scenes with her mother. Again sad, but showing Mac(Kenzi)'s strength.

So sad as well that Bo seems to have confirmed to Dyson that she doesn't love him any more (or so she thinks for the moment, I suppose, since she's convinced that Rainer is her destiny. But that will come undone in the near future I can only hope).

What did Dyson say after Tamsin arrived in the Dal? It sounded like "I haven't been so low" (or was it "alone"?) "for centuries. It feels good." And yes, the kiss, and the drunken passion that followed, was real. They both seemed desperate for comforting and connection.

When the voodoo sorceress said to Dyson (roughly), "The prison of your heart is of your own making," I thought to myself, "Oh, oh, retcon of wolves mate for life incoming." Followed soon after by Acacia to Tamsin: "Are you going to find yourself a wolf, settle down and push out some puppies?" Ugly phrasing, but Acacia is no shrinking violet. We'll see where all that goes, if anywhere.

Nice scene between Trick and Vex. "I see the good in you, Vex." "That makes one of us."

I can't go on for now. Just too bummed out as @cmm says.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
192. Kiersten
@whiskeywhite - I just got the "prison of your own making" and first words were "oh fuck, they are going to walk back the mate for life".

I honestly don't know how a show expects to keep a faithful audience when it can't be bothered to be faithful to itself or its own history.
nypinta
193. nypinta
I was incredibly angry at the mini rant Bo offered to Kenzi in the beginning when Kenzi was telling Bo she doesn't want her to be brain washed too. First she basically blames Dyson for saving her life and then she acts like she broke it off with Lauren because Lauren chose to work for the Dark, when actually Lauren broke it off with her so way to spin that tale to make you look like the injured party both times. Basically she used Dyson because she could and allowed him to declare himself to her while keeping her options open but he's an asshole for saving her life. She acts now like her relationship with Lauren was some obligation she had to meet because Lauren wanted it but now that Lauren isn't playing as her bed pet Lauren is wrong. I just don't know what is wrong with the writers. Or why someone hasn't called her on her spin on things. But it was a momentary thing. The rest of the episode was gross, but good. Sort of. I mean, it resonated and made you feel things and moved had great moments. If by great I mean heart breaking.

I think the writer tweeting to KC could just be he misses him because the show isn't in production right now. Might not mean anything about his future on the show. But if the other show he is on is as popular as others have said and he has more to do on that show it's logical he would chose that and Hale can't just walk away, because he'd look like a jerk to leave Kenzi. But I still don't think this is it for Hale. The leviathan said she'd see Bo. Hope she drags Massimo down into the underworld with her and exchanges him for Hale. Because Massimo needs to die horribly.

I do think now that the true evil Trick mentioned is Bo's father and he arranged for Bo to rescue Rainer so he can continue what he started by fighting against the Blood Laws and get rid of the Light and Dark. Maybe by the end of the season they will do just that, and then Bo's father will appear again... and we go into Season 5. Maybe Bo is going to be the third big bad, declaring herself Queen of all Fae.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
194. Kiersten
That whole scene between Bo and Dyson in The Dal directly contradicts just about everything she said to him in E7 about destiny and having to work to make relationships stick and the whole "I love you both" of E10. Either the writers/show/etc really don't have a problem making Bo so incredibly shallow, fickle, and downright mean to the people who love her and have stood by her through everything or there's a rude awakening coming very soon for her about Rainer. At the moment, I can't wait to watch her get it.
nypinta
195. nypinta
That's the thing with people who think they have what they want and know it's at the expense of someone else. They make shit up so they can have what they want and not feel like they aren't fullfilling what they said previously. Of course, all her talk of destiny and not being able to chose her own path and letting those that have stood beside her no matter what down could be the red flags that everyone should be noting. Because what she is saying, or what she said to Dyson doesn't sound like her. Unlike in The Kenzi Scale when they all thought something was wrong because Trick convinced them she was not well, NOW she's actually not talking like herself. But you can only argue with someone for so long until you just have to wait for them to get how wrong they are, if they ever do.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
196. Kiersten
@nypita - yes to all of that about the cold open. I'd be OK if Bo was the 3rd big bad - I dont think it's her father b/c we already knew he was bad and EA teased that it would surprised everyone. That said, we know The Wanderer is 1 of the big bads, but I still dont think Rainer fits that bill entirely.

I will say that they'd better not be keeping Rainer around into the next season. Eliminating the problematic love triangle that even the fans hate at this point by introducing someone knew in the last half of the fourth season and force-feeding everyone crap about their destiny when the entire series has been about Bo chosing her own path, living her own life, destiny be damned, is a MAJOR cheat, not to mention cowardly, and totally pisses on the fans that have hung in there through so much disappointment and WTFery all this while. Resolve your triangle or don't and take the lumps that come with it but dont weasel your way out by screwing over everyone. That's just cheap.
Carmen Pinzon
197. bungluna
Eew! And eew again, yuck!

My two favorite bits where:

1. Bo and Acacia cat fighting; I mean, they are both feared warriors but revert to hair pullin?!

2. Kenzie having a come-to-Jesus talk with Bo, even if it was under duress. Was about time somebody called SuccuBo out on her shit!
nypinta
198. nypinta
I did find it funny Bo and Acacia having a pretty pathetic fight, considering their individual histories as badasses. But the fact that Bo actually believed that guy was annoying. I mean, did she really think Acacia would send a zombie to kill her, kill it, and then go with her to the one person that could tell Bo it was her? M'kay.

I did find what Kenzi said interesting. It's a bit like when Trick got in Hale's face and said what he did about humans. Truth has a tendency to pop out under duress.

But, again back to the beginning, I was also annoyed that Kenzi didn't say anything to Bo about what she said about Dyson considering that she knows for a fact what Dyson felt like since she was in his body in Original Skin. So to just let her comment about him being an asshole slide like that irks.

Could have done with less zombies. Ha. Not a fan. And why is it that the fae seem to live lives that suck more than most humans with the exception of a few of the lucky ones? So much for being the top of the food chain.
Nadine Robb
200. cmm
So Hale is gone for good. Great now I can stop watching.
nypinta
201. nypinta
I don't think he is though... because I'm not clicking that link. Nope. Not gonna do it. Writers lie!

What's it say? Is he off the show?
Nadine Robb
202. cmm
LOL! You make me laugh. You want to know what it says, but you don't want to click the link.

This is the part that convinces me he's dead:

"As the showrunner, I don’t pull my punches with my cast, so K.C. knew
about this early on. And we had a big farewell to him on the last day of
filming and gave him a cake and some super-duper special golf club. The
cake was amazing — it was in the shape of a fedora, which might make
you cry even more. He spoke to what the show’s meant to him and what
he’s meant to us, and we really are a cast and crew that’s incredibly
close, so there was not a dry eye."
Kiersten Hallie Krum
203. Kiersten
Yeah. He's dead. I think he shows up in next ep some way, but they had a goodbye party for K.C. and everything.
Nadine Robb
204. cmm
As a Hale and Kenzi fan I feel really jipped. It's like Dyson and Bo all over again. The promise of something really cool and then WHAM! Take that away. I don't get them at all. I get that they wanted consequences, but haven't they done that already? Its like they keep repeating things over and over and nothing is ever achieved. I feel like Hale's death was a waste. He was barely on this season and then when he was on he didn't really do much. Also if EA thinks that people are going to write in and demand other seasons after this tripe, she's got another thing coming. It's like they are constantly spitting in the fans' faces. If it's not anything to to do with doccubus it doesn't matter.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
205. Kiersten
To quote @Faenonymous from Twitter: we've all just been Whedoned.
nypinta
207. nypinta
If he wanted to leave because he's got a better gig you can't really blame her. And like I said they couldn't just have Hale leave. He'd come across as a jerk no matter what the reason was for him going. They needed real world consequences for everything that happened, including Kenzi stealing in order to stay alive. Losing Hale is pretty damn consequential. And it might serve as a bit of a wake up call for Bo. As much as it sucks when a beloved character leaves a show, I can't get upset that someone dies on a show like Lost Girl. The characters get into dangerous situations all the time and for them all to come out of them without a scratch starts to strain credibility.
Suzanne Metaxas
208. SuzyM
oh please, they could have let them have a few episodes of happy before they crushed our hearts! I am so tired of shows that can't have happy. Life is sucky enough without having our fantasy worlds be sucky too! I want happy damn it! And walking back Dyson and having him be with Tamsin now sucks too!
nypinta
209. Ron Grant
I swore I wasn't going to come on here and find out what happened. I swore I wouldn't! I won't let anything I've read here this early morning hour spoil it for me. Reading about it just gave me an idea of what happened. I'll watch the show later this morning and get the complete lowdown then. Then I guess from what I've read I'll be bummed out for the rest of the day. It'll only last for a week tho.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
210. Kiersten
I can see Dyson and Tamsin having a non-thinking one-off or even a short affair. I don't like it because I have a thing about professional partners becoming sexual partners and in this case, despite her kissing him when they first met, Dyson and Tamsin's entire relationship has been bros and partners, not muted sexual buzz. And she knows full well how he feels about Bo. So I can easily see it as she sold it to him, dont think, come on, take a little succour for a moment, but I'm not gonna be happy if it's long term. But then, the whole idea of retconning Dyson's mated love because it's become inconveinent mostly because they've shoe-horned in a last-minute contender who nobody wants makes me instinctively descend into KIERSTEN SMASH mentality.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
211. Kiersten
@RonGrant - it'll last two weeks as there's no new episode until February 9th.
Carmen Pinzon
213. bungluna
It's like an Agatha Christie Novel: and then there were none, men that is.

There were some good bits buried in all the horror. Tiny microscopic bits.

I liked Hale using his pecs as distraction and Kenzie calling him on it. What perverted deity decreed that we can't have any happy couples on TV, huh? I'm so sick of getting jerked around all the time. Now I just don't invest in any couple whatsoever. Sigh

As for Bo assuming that Dyson came to help her, I think I detected a bit of play when he called Tamsin partner after Bo left with Acasia, or did I imagine that? At this point, I'm all for Dyson and anybody but SuccuBo.

I just hope they wrap this hot mess up this season because I just can't see another season in their future and it would be the ultimate #%&@* you to the fans to leave everything hanging.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
214. Kiersten
Hang on. Tamsin didn't only not recognize Rainer as the evil man who hired her to locate Bo, aka The Wanderer, she also didn't recognize him as the man in the suit of armor whose soul she neglected to take to Valhalla in exchage for Trick giving her new lives. So does that mean that not only is Rainer not actually The Wanderer, he is also not actually "Rainer" in the first place?! If so, why didn't Trick recognize this discrepency when he saw Rainer in The Dal? Or is this just more plot hole hijinks no one bothered to think through when they set this all up?

Also, the more I think about it, the more everything she said to Dyson tonight is epic bullshit as it directly contradicts absolutely everything that's happened between them over the last four seasons of this show.

Oh, and suddenly now we're going back to Doctor Lauren working on her own plan? I swear, if this is another ring around to "Wonder Lauren saves everyone," I'm gonna - ya know, I dont even have the words anymore.
Susan White
215. whiskeywhite
So EA's story about KCC is clear that they decided to kill off Hale and not that he wanted to leave. Hale's death does make for some of the tragedy that I was talking about earlier (in fact I see that EA refers to it as "Shakespearean" tragedy). A noble, pure hearted warrior (and he was, in his own more quiet way) struck down while defending his lady love. (Oh dear, I'm getting a bit maudlin now.)

I think your ideas about Bo going into the underworld are good @nypinta but Hale isn't going to be saved. EA says, "Hale is dead dead." There will be some other purpose for the underworld. If Hale appears in the next episode, it will surely be memories of him. The death of Hale will also be a blow to Dyson (and I swear I wrote that before I saw EA saying the same thing).

I can understand that Kenzi will be mad at Bo for not saving Hale and EA suggests that would be out of guilt. But I think it's fairly clear that even if Bo had taken every ounce of Kenzi's chi, killing her in the process, it would not have been enough chi to save Hale. Plus there's a precedent in the series that Bo cannot heal all physical inuries with her chi. In "BrotherFae of the Wolves" (2.05), Bo tells Dyson that she is unable to heal the badly injured Cayden. Hale's situation is not the same as Bo bringing back Dyson in "Ceremony" because Dyson dies in that case due to Fae magic (I don't know what else to call it. He's not actually stabbed).

@SuzyM, I'm so with you on "happy". But they did give us the proposal, the (quasi) engagement and the "I love you." They could have really screwed us and killed him off before all that.

We can note that EA says, "We also see Lauren again next episode and maybe something she’s been working on might come to fruition." I wonder if it's the DNA sample from Evony.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
216. Kiersten
It's like an Agatha Christie Novel: and then there were none, men that is.
I had the same thought, @bungluna, along the lines of "because we have so many men on this show in the first place."

I liked Dyson giving Bo shit about only coming because Tamsin called, and I really liked Tamsin backing her partner up. Which is why the sexcapades bother me if they're going to last - they're so great as partners and with Hale gone, Dyson's going to need a friend much more than he needs a lover. It's nice to see Dyson finally pushing back at Bo. The fact that she's so shocked when he says he won't help her if (when) Rainer turns out to be evil even when she knows she's just eviserated him shows how much she's come to take him for granted and expects him to be there where she needs him and absent when she done with him.
Carmen Pinzon
217. bungluna
At this point, the only thing that would satisfy me is a fifth season of everybody mad at Bo and making her jump through hoops and pay for being such a sucky (girl)friend!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
218. Kiersten
One last thing and then i'm going to bed, i swear.

Massimo *is* the 3rd Big Bad of the season. The Una Mens, The Wanderer, and Massimo.
Susan White
219. whiskeywhite
Good point Kiersten:
The fact that she's so shocked when he says he won't help her if (when) Rainer turns out to be evil even when she knows she's just eviserated him shows how much she's come to take him for granted and expects him to be there where she needs him and absent when she done with him.
I was struck as well that when the zombies were breaking in, she just said, "Dyson." It sounded a bit like an order: "Deal with those." To be fair, she then went about finding a solution.

I don't think that Rainer will be around next season, and I think there will be a next season. But I wouldn't bet on a 6th. Apparently 5 is considered a reasonable run.

I meant to say earlier that I agree with @nypinta: "Could have done with less zombies." But zombies are in now, as are werewolves. Vampires are so last year, or the year before. Even KHR has a zombie movie coming out ("The Returned"), although they insist that it's a love story with zombies (of which he is one, sort of).
Mary Beth House
220. UberFaenatic
I have a lot of emotions about this episode.

The Hale death was telegraphed long ago so it wasn't a surprise, but it was painful.

And Ksenia Solo better win some award or something because WOW.

We learned a lot...I have to go back and rewatch for the moments we learned, about Tamsin, Vex, Massimo, Trick and that horse.

I think the most shocking moment for me really was the Tamsin/Dyson scene...because what the what?

So...Acacia says something about wolf pups...and Bo talks about going for it...and the show references a scene 20 episodes ago to justify that? She literally has had no on air time with him this season as an adult.

It's like they're suggesting that Tamsin's been secretly harboring a crush on Dyson and now that Bo is uninterested, she can go for it. And if that's the case, I'm done trying to figure out any ship on this stupid show because there has been ZERO evidence.

Or maybe Tamsin was spending all her time with Bo last season to get to Dyson. Yeah that makes sense.

Of course, what was the point of, "That's what love feels like"? Why have that character beat in there if they were going to pull this?

I hope it's a case of temporary insanity because there is absolutely diddly squat behind that exchange unless our valkyrie just wanted to make him feel something.

I just don't know anymore.
Mary Beth House
221. UberFaenatic
@Kiersten...Tamsin would not have remembered Rainer's face from the battlefield because he was wearing a helmet at that time.
nypinta
222. Nypinta
Tamsin did say her memories are fuzzy, so that could be why she didn't recognize Rainer as the fae whose soul she didn't take to Valhalla, but she knows enough that she knows he isn't her boss.

Massimo is partly Kenzi's fault but also Bo's when she so casually threw Tamsin's hair in the lava after his break down. Now, that doesn't mean he isn't completely to blame for killing Hale because he chose to do that. But Kenzi doesn't bare all the blame...although you know she's going to feel that way.

I don't mind if they walk back on the one mate thing with Dyson. So much of the show's theme is choosing your own path so I have zero qualms if Dyson is allowed that as well.

I wonder if Hale's family will make an appearance. And will Massimo, being a human killing Hale reignite the fae vs claimed humans terror that began this season?

And did Trick's writing out of history all mention of Rainer also mean that perhaps the exploits of other fae that fought against him were altered, like Vex's father? What of the man Trick knew didn't exist to Vex because Trivk took the man's memory of being a great general in his army?
nypinta
223. TheGardner
I don't know why it was such a surprise/big deal. EA did an interview awhile back basically stating that Dyson's "mate for life" was a psychological not physiological issue. I don't have the link, but I believe it was the 'Drinks at the Dal' one.

As for Tamsin and Dyson, I had originally thought she was brought in to be his 'Ryan' while Bo and Lauren did their relationship thing. Valkybus never made any sense to me so have at it kids.
nypinta
224. Anina
@ Kiersten:
"Dyson gave his love away and then he became a complete a-hole for, like, forever." Yeah, and you just left him thatway and didn't go after the thing that took his love in the first place. Way to miss the whole"didn't know what he was giving up at the time" much less the "willingly sacrificed what he valued most to save your life because you were toomuch of a brat to realize you couldnt go up against your super Fae crazy mother alone and then paid for it alone because you couldnt be bothered to do anything about it," But 10 minutes on a death train with a totalstranger who you stronger suspect is evil and suddenly he's your destiny? Bitch.

Yes, Yes, YES!

And he didn't give his love away, it was taken from him, bitch. But it's just so convenient to blame him, right?

I like the idea of Dyson/Tamsin. Yes, it feels a bit forced, but Dyson absolutely needs a new love and that way, EA can save on the cost for a additional actress (beware, irony). As for it being a total surprise, you pointed out yourself, Kiersten, Tamsin does a lot of patting Dyson through S3 :)
And I rather see them together than have another season of him pining after Bo.
Mary Beth House
225. UberFaenatic
A few thoughts from the post mortem:

"We knew there were going to be a few deaths, to be honest." A FEW deaths? :S

Also.... what does this mean:

"I think we are supposed to take it at face value at the end of this, that she doesn’t think the evil she made a deal with is Rainer. It speaks to, once again, people being pawns in their own story."

"I think we are supposed to take it at face value"
"she doesn't think"
"people being pawns in their own story"

That sounds super ambiguous. What do you interpret that last phrase to mean in this context?

"Tamsin traded Rainer’s soul for another chance at life, which is going to compromise her position as a Valkyrie and her ability to be a deliverer of souls to Valhalla."

That sounds ominous.

So... Massimo used the twig to survive the lava bath...we called that one...but I didn't get the sense he had the seed. Why did Trick think Vex knew about it?

And will Massimo go after Tamsin again to get the valkyrie hair to save his mommy, whoever that is?
nypinta
226. nypinta
I don't normally read the post episode interviews, because from the quotes I know they'll just make me mad. But the vaugeness could be attributed to not wanting to give away too much for the final episodes. Of which I expect they'll have a lot of twists they hope we can't guess at. (But you know I'm going to try.)

It doesn't seem as if Massimo has the final seed. So it was probably Vex's hand, still bandaged from Lauren's surgery, that was reaching for it. Or Massimo does have it, he just doesn't know what it means yet and hasn't swallowed it. But since Massimo is Evony's claimed human, I expect there to be more ramifications of him killing Hale other than all our main players being angry and sad.

I'm still annoyed by that opening scene dialog because there is nothing about it that endears me to Bo. And it shouldn't have been that hard for them to have her frame it as instead of pretty straight forward blaming Dyson to imply that when he lost his love to the Norn to save her it broke her heart too much that she can't go through that again. Everyone on the show in this season has been dealing with their past, be it years ago or more recent, so why can't Bo? Why can't what he did have emotional ramifications for her that maybe she hasn't dealt with yet? Instead they come up with her saying that because she broke Rainer's curse she feels valuable? If that's what she needs to feel worthy then why the hell didn't she try to break Dyson's? Why couldn't she have said, "I failed him where I didn't fail Rainer. He's my second chance..." blah blah blah? There are so many ways they could have gone with her (excuses) explination to Kenzi, but they chose that one. Someone wrote those specific words. And had Kenzi go along with them. Which means that's their canon. Because IIRC, Dyson had his love stolen by the Norn and he took off for a few weeks to deal, (which I guess he can't do but it's ok for Bo to lock out her friends when she's dealing with stuff....), and when he got back he told her the situation and that they couldn't be together. She didn't get it. She tried to seduce him and when it didn't work implied she'd force him just the same way her mother did. Naturally she wasn't happy, but she's not supposed to be. Yet she does nothing about it and even resorts to having sex his former pack mate out of spite in the house while all of her friends are downstairs, including Lauren, who she also knows has feeligns for her. He is reunited with Ciara and at that point he's calm again. No they aren't together, but not being together doesn't make him an asshole. He was pretty much back to his old self, calm and always here to support whatever case she is working on and to be her back up should she need. Then he loses Ciara due to the Norn deal and later after they reconcile she gets killed (saving Bo) and he does act out. She's blaming him for that? But then Kenzi gets his love back and although still sad over Ciara's death, he's back to being the same always there for her person that she met in season one. That's him "being an asshole, for like, forever"? No. Writers. Just no.

Same with her comments about Lauren. She still makes it sound like she is the one that has the choice to be with Lauren again but that she is choosing not too because Lauren is cozy with the Morrigan.

I know that Tamsin and Dyson getting togther (but I don't really see it being a long term thing) is going to upset the valkybus fans the most, and I can understand it to some degree. But all of the moments in last season that had them pairing up did not feel like a potential budding romance to me at all even though they did everything to make it seem so. When they were infected and behaving as teens they did kiss but that was wiped away as soon as the infection wore off. The kiss in the woods to find Kenzi was utilitarian only. The kiss in Fae'ge was due to the machine and Trick and Stella. Tamsin's feelings for Bo were of growing admiration and respect mingled with guilt for what she was supposed to do. Then in Groundhog Fae I read that as projection by Tamsin more than actual romantic attraction. That is completely my intreptation though. I can see how people will see it so differently. But Bo never indicated she returned any feelings for Tamsin in any way other than physical attraction. I'd rather see them more like Bo and Kenzi, which is women that have mutual respect for each other and can work together to solve serious shit. But Dyson she was into from day one, and made it known. The fact he turned her down doesn't mean she can't still be attracted to him. And they're both in a similar boat, so getting together for comfort doesn't bother me one bit. They were partners, and he still considers her on that level, but that doesn't exclude anything more in my book. They aren't co workers anymore. So, why not? They have more in common with each other than Bo and Dyson do. They're both long aged fae that always did their duty to their clan but made mistakes along the way that they deeply regret. But Bo gets to make her choices and Dyson is finally learning that he gets to too.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
227. Kiersten
It's like they're suggesting that Tamsin's been secretly harboring a crush on Dyson and now that Bo is uninterested, she can go for it.

They're definitely suggesting that in this episode and it makes zero sense and has absolutely nothing to do with anything that's happened between them since Tamsin's first episode in S3 and RS even said that in that episode they were still figuring Tamsin out and how RS was going to play her. I think it's really a case of her trying to give Dyson solace and for someone who apparently used to bang hydras on her lunch hour, a little non-thinking, recreational sex with her partner when he's just had his eternal love smack him over the head with her new, destined to be short-term boyfriend does seem more in line although with some effort.
Nadine Robb
228. cmm
In this season it's almost like they took every fan grievance and shoved it out there for resolution. I admit I'd wanted Bo to say that crap to Dyson long ago because he would of deserved it. But right now wasn't the time or place for it. Also him saying she wouldnt' be there for her should of been him saying that last season. Also the Rainer being her great love thing, i'm sure fans said that before they wanted her to move on from DL and Dyson and they've done that this season. As for Kenzi, all I could think of in that scene was: "Now BO?!?!? Really now, is the time you remember Kenzi is your friend?!?!? And that you choose her first? Since when?" The way they have done all this, this season is really OC. I cannot get behind this sort of writing. It's sloppy, lazy and shows how much the showrunner cares about the show.
nypinta
229. JayCruz61
Whoaaaa! A lot of you were right about Season 4 Episode 11. Warning! It's extremely hard core dramatic at the end. Damn! I think this is Solo's best performance yet.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
230. Kiersten
@NYPinTA I agree with everything you said about Bo and Kenzi in that cold open. I genuinely cannot get my brain around that reasoning, as a fan or especially as a writer. It's so blatantly NOT what happened and then for Kenzi, who was inside Dyson's body, who uniquely knows exactly how empty he was without his love for Bo, and how him sticking around and trying to be something of what he used to be proves the quality of his character, for her of all people to sum it all up for Tamsin with "we called him Mopey Dick" is *such* a deep betrayal of canon character I can't even. I do not understand the constant need to assassinate Dyson's character to the point of shamelessly lying about events that anyone can go back, pull of the relevant episode, and point out exactly how and where and when that is totally not true. And to have it be done by the two women he loves and values above everything else in his life, including his own life, is just unforgiveable. I'd hope that it was a character hiccup on Bo's part due to her ridiculous self-delusion about Rainer - valuable my ass - except that Kenzi agreed with it, which is just so beneath her. If you can't make your characters journey work without negating the history of another character, you have a serious problem with your plots.

Out of all the agony that was Hale's death, at least for once Kenzi finally let both barrels fly at Bo about how selfish and hypocritical she is about "helping" people. 'Bout damn time.

Dyson's "mate for life" is a metaphysical issue, not physical or psychological. EA can retcon that all she likes, but The Norn (freaking Norn!) was very clear about how Dyson's love worked as a mated Fae and it wasn't a self-enforced, psychological issue at all. Let's not forget that it doesnt only apply to wolf shifters; the Fury in S1 told Bo that other Fae mate for life and marriages last into the thousands of years. But hey, without a series Bible or any overt investment in continuity, I guess those things are easy to forget...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
231. Kiersten
@JayCruz61 - Hi! Thanks for leaving a comment. Yes, Ksenia Solo was amazing and heart-breaking last night. And I really wish we weren't quite so right about those things last night.

Big emotional stakes for sure!
nypinta
232. diehard
@nypinta I agree that Bo has not really shown she feels anything more than physical attraction and caring for Tamsin, but I do disagree that Tamsin has made it known she was into Dyson since day one. Yes she did kiss him and flirt with him but that only really happened in the first couple episodes in s3. After that, they were just buddies. And even though Dyson rejected her, I feel we would've seen some clues as to her still wanting him, whether it be more flirty comments or just those sad puppy dog eyes Tamsin gives. Plus if she reaaalllly felt anything for Dyson she wouldn't of sped up to hit the shadowy figure at the end of s3 knowing full well she's risking his life as well. "Hey so...I like you...but I'm going to try and kill this guy to try and protect Bo. Sorry if you die."

In either case, whether it be a one-night no feelings thing or romance, I feel it will not last long. It doesn't bother me as much as it did last night, because yes there are some people who don't see how Tamsin feels about Bo, but I feel like there is more to "That's what love feels like" and other instances. Plus it is just so out of nowhere. I'm not sure why Acacia mentioned the find a wolf and have puppies bit though, like it's fairly obvious she wants him when really it's not.

Last thing...it may have been right after the "I can't ignore how I feel so I gotta go for it right?" thing to make people think that it's more for Tamsin, when it could be her just letting Bo love who she wants and not interfering like she didn't for Dyson/Lauren (assuming that what she feels for Bo is love) Gunna throw this out there though...I know it's soon after Hale's death but with how it was basically said Dyson himself is making it so he can't love anyone else, like he is holding himself prisioner and Hale dying...Denzi/Kyson has a chance now. ;) I mean COME ON, they can't have Kenzi's love interest DIE and her not get another love interest. :( No matter how much she loved him. omgsosad
Kiersten Hallie Krum
233. Kiersten
Hi @diehard! Thanks for leaving a comment!

Love seeing new posters who I suspect are lurkers finally coming out of the woodwork. Either way, welcome!
nypinta
235. Ron Grant
So the handmaiden told Bo that the Wanderer's name was Rainer. Then he himself told Bo to call him Rainer. Now the picture of Rainer (?) appears in the book and Tamsin tells Bo that's not her boss. Rainer has lied to Bo, and if there is one thing that gets her sucubutt riled up is people lying to her. So I'm hoping she gets to the bottom of things before the end of the season. I will be some disappointed if we don't see him gone soon. The title of the next episode is called The Beginning, maybe it has something to do with DL when she pulled off that strip of Evony's dna off her lip. I just hope that was she's done or is doing, is not just something that's going to appear without showing some of what she did. Unlike what the writers did with Kenzie's shadow thief training. So Hale is dead, but I don't think he's the one she'll be going back to Arkalla(did I spell that right) to find. I say that because didn't Hugin say that it was hell or France or something like that. I can see Hale going to France but not to hell. His was a good soul. So who is she going to hell and back for this time. And the crown on the train, who is it for? It has to be for her, it has her name on it. And Rainer had to have known about it, it was right there beside him. When Bo was in her car talking with Rainer, I looked at her sitting in that chair and with that oh so serious look on her face. It almost looked like she was sitting on the throne. That's what I saw anyway, all she would have needed was that crown on her head. And a plain black crown doesn't look like the kind someone who would rule with a benevolent hand would wear. One thing that I didn't see coming on this show was Bo drinking the blood from a severed zombie queen's head. Just what you want to see while you have scrambled eggs and a glass of V8 juice in front of you. Thanks for the "heads up" (pun intended)LG, next show I'll wait til it's over, and no V8 juice. As for Massimo, I wonder if the Twig Of Zamora would save him if Kenzi were to give him a close shave just above the shoulders with Geraldine. And speaking of KS, she was the show stealer, hands down.
@ Kiersten, The Super Bowl is next Sunday night so that's probably why e12 won't on til the 9th. It's most likely that a fair number of LG fans will be watching it. I can't stay away from coming here and reading and posting comments since I came upon it. It's almost like I have a borderline addiction here. So I'll be reading/posting a comment on here before the day is thru. As the crow said when he took Bo at the Dal, TA
nypinta
236. feafeafea
SORRY,but I don't understand -WHAT
HAPPENED between Bo and Lauren?????
Or really Bo and Lauren will not be together?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
237. Kiersten
@feafaefea Hi and welcome!

Yes, Bo and Doctor Lauren are not together as a couple
nypinta
239. feafeafea
am,I will continue in new cons.-
http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2014/01/lost-girl-season-4-episode-11-discussion-this-is-the-end
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