Mon
Dec 23 2013 9:30am

Lost Girl Season 4, Episode 7 Discussion: Free Dyson!

Dyson in Lost Girl 4.07, La Fae EpoqueIn last night's Lost Girl Season 4 episode, “La Fae Époque,” Bo and Lauren team up to help exonerate Dyson for murder. Here's the (very brief) synopsis:

Bo and Lauren delve into Dyson's memory when he's on trial for murder.

What did you think?

Note: This is an episode discussion post, so there will of course be MAJOR SPOILERS for the episode.

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186 comments
Mary Beth House
1. UberFaenatic
So. That happened.

Long live the triangle, I guess.

Emily Andras post mortem here:
http://www.theloop.ca/showbiz/tv-guide/news/article/-/a/3025919/-Lost-Girl-Talk-Emily-Andras-on-La-Fae-poque

So they might have Dyson get rid of his single love syndrome and Lauren tells Bo that her love is coming in the future and that was a deliberate show choice?

Okay.

Sigh.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
2. Kiersten
From EA's post mortem interview:
Q: On a more serious note, there was a lot of subtext to be had in the scenes between Bo as Dyson and Flora in terms of Lauren and Bo’s relationship. How much should we read into Flora’s dying words, “I have a feeling your love is left to come”?

A: I think we know that Dyson has implied that he only has ever loved Bo. I think there’s potential for that to change, obviously, but I think that’s something that Dyson has convinced himself is impossible for him. But as he’s learning to challenge rules and the way things are done, there’s lots of different ways for you to love somebody...So, I guess when Flora says that it can mean all sorts of things. It is interesting that she says it to Bo as Lauren. Let me say it was a deliberate choice. There are many, many different ways to take that statement going
This troubles me. Greatly.
nypinta
3. nypinta
The thing is it doesn't make sense. That scene between Dyson and Flora (even though it was Bo and Lauren) was something that actually happened in the past TO Dyson and was said BY Flora. The fact that Bo put Lauren's face on Flora means nothing in terms of what Flora said. Nor should it matter that it was Lauren's face saying to memory passenger Bo. Flora didn't know Bo was there when she said it to Dyson. Period.

As for Dyson "challenging rules" also makes no sense. I get that maybe they want to walk back on wolves mating for life, mostly because it's just so stupid, but you can't just have Dyson decide that it isn't true if it is in his nature to mate for life. That'd be a bit like saying Lauren could decide to change her nature and not be a lesbian anymore. It's insulting to even suggest that. (It's a bit why I have issues with Bo Place Like Home when they made Bo's faeness allegory for her being bisexual, because the last thing I think the LBGT community needs is a fictional character whose supernaturalness is allegory for being Bi when for years she killed people with sex.) But if they are implying that perhaps Dyson could learn to expand his love for Bo to include whatever third party she also loved, (because I do think monogamy is a choice Bo can make, but her nature as a succubus makes it difficult for her to survive with just one partner and Bo desires love in her partners. That is what makes her different than other succubi. And for her and Dyson to work he's going to have to be able to love who else Bo loves.)

Anyhow, if that's what they are going for or hinting at, they chose the wrong moment to do it because it was something said in the past before he even met Bo. If Cassie had said it, it would work. Why do they continually have the wrong person say the thing?! It's like a disease.
But the episode was fun and yes they had moments for each segment of the fandom but to try and give those scenes meaning is dangerous. Flora was not Lauren. Bo is not Dyson. What was said between them has nothing to do with Bo and Lauren. How Bo now relates to Dyson after seeing his memories is all that they can really do with anything that occured. And how Bo relates to Lauren now that she's confronted with her subconcious. Although her subconcious and her concious are pretty much the same. She still longs for Lauren. The ball, in that situation, is in Lauren's court.

But did anyone else notice that Bo didn't have any dark or off moments now that she's confronted the idea that something is different? It's like admiting it has given her the power to overcome it. (For now.)

I said before, as zany and wierd as this episode was, I loved it. It gave everyone something to love. I don't like that for some reason despite the writers giving everyone something that people have decided to focus on characters they hate sad. Not plot points that don't make sense. The characters themselves.

Next week I think will be filler. But I suspect that Bo and Tamsin have to work together because I think since Bo made her proclimation, The Wanderer screws with everyone's memory again with maybe the exception of Tamsin and it's them trying to get the rest to see Bo again. (Based on images and episode description.)
Mary Beth House
4. UberFaenatic
So, I guess when Flora says that it can mean all sorts of things. It is interesting that she says it to Bo as Lauren. Let me say it was a deliberate choice. There are many, many different ways to take that statement going forward.

So it was a deliberate choice for Lauren to say that to Bo and it means, what exactly? That Bo has a future love from her point in time forward? That they're referencing a future for Bo and Lauren?

And Dyson can some how not mate for life because...well I guess anything is up for grabs now.

I just don't know what to think of this show anymore.

But hey they all got hot dogs after wards, even though Lauren and Kenzi are fearful for their lives because of the Una Mens. Or something.
nypinta
5. nypinta
@Isbloom @cmm I have comments from previous thread but I can't recall who said what... uh, Dyson being zen. I don't think he was zen so much as he wasn't going to give the Una Mens the satisfaction of begging or crying and part of him blames himself for what happened anyhow. (Because he always takes on responsibility for things that aren't totally his fault.) As for why Flora was Lauren in Bo's mind...I think that even though she hadn't seen her yet she could feel that Dyson had strong feelings for Flora and her mind inserted someone else who she had similar feelings for. Bo doesn't see Kenzi that way so her subconcious wouldn't insert her in such a position. But Dyson does think of Angel as family. A sister. She's a fellow shifter. So Bo's subconcious reads that and inserts Kenzi in that role because that's how Bo sees Kenzi: a sister.
nypinta
6. nypinta
@UberFaenatic (Hello on twitter, too, BTW. ;P ) I think we are supposed to assume that the Una Mens are no longer a threat to Lauren and Kenzi since they all revealed the Una Mens hypocrisy. They get the shoe, Dyson goes free, Kenzi and Lauren are no longer on their menu. Because the other shoe is still out there and the Una Mens need them to find it. Not that I'm assuming that's what Bo agreed to, just what they are probably thinking and why they let them go rather than kill them all and keep the one shoe.

"So it was a deliberate choice for Lauren to say that to Bo and it means, what exactly? That Bo has a future love from her point in time forward? That they're referencing a future for Bo and Lauren?

And Dyson can some how not mate for life because...well I guess anything is up for grabs now."

Right! When I heard the conversation between them I thought Flora was telling Dyson that she knew he didn't love her with his ONE love and that the woman for him was still to come, meaning Bo. I did not in any way take it to mean that Lauren somehow inserted herself in that moment to tell Bo that she was going to meet Lauren some day. Because Lauren wasn't in the memory yet. How could she?
Katherine Bloom
7. lsbloom
From the previous thread:

@nypinta and @Kiersten I agree Dyson has earned some zen. He has certainly earned the self-assurdedness that he feels with his feelings for Bo. However, for me, he hasn't and it almost out of character odd, for him to sit back and be rescued, particularly with Kenzi's life also on the line. The whole this is nice to just wait for someone to save me for a change wasn't so much just zen as it was fatalistic. For me, talk about a loss of agency. They wouldn't have had to do much to change it from, "I'll just wait here for Bo to maybe get around to saving us, la-dee-dah" to "I can feel a connection to Bo in my memories, she's going to figure it out and I've got a backup plan, best not to upset the Una Mens before we have to." You could easily have taken the screen time from Lauren staring at Bo sleeping and saying boobs 20 times. Give him a reason to just lounge around waiting to be saved. Otherwise, it's a totally lay down on the table to die at the lich's sitch and I'm not a fan and that's not Dyson.

@Nypinta I agree with you about the choices for Lauren and Kenzi.

But I can't get behind EA's continued muddled ideas of subtly and role reversal. I really try not to read her comments, they just make me sad. I get that a lot of people don't like the wolves mate for life thing, but to just erase the mythology is to erase season 2. What if Dyson had wanted to he could have loved Bo? It was a rule that he can break? There was nothing else more important to him in the world, if he couldn't break the rule at that loss, under what circumstances could be? KHR has talked about it in metaphysical terms not psychological ones. The show was clear: one love. Norn took it, the only one he had. I get that a lot of people want to see Lauren and Bo strive to get together, but that denies the fact that the only thing holding them apart (aside from their complete incompatibilty) is Lauren. So you can't have Lauren pining after something she totally could have. Maybe you can get rid of the triangle by bringing in a new love for Bo, but woe unto that actor. But on a more serious note, TPTB don't have the guts.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
8. Kiersten
I'm out & about a lot today and not online too regularly, so I'm just going to say I pretty much agree w/everything @nypita has said. Love it or hate it, LG cant walk back Dyson's mate for life love for Bo w/out negating all of S2 & most of Dyson's character journey. He is not who he is today w/out that. Also that was not a convo between Bo & Doctor Lauren but rather was Dyson and Flora's last moments together. They have already happened and were clearly aboveDyson's future love for Bo and had absolutely no direct connection to Bo & Doctor Lauren's relationship. To say otherwise is to, again, negate Dyson's own life experience. I like the idea of his expanding his love to include who Bo loves, which I *do* think him capable of doing & would be within his character journey and is one reason why I once suggested an actual threesome between Dyson, Bo & Tamsin would be much more healthy a solution/end game. But I doubt the show will have the guts to go that direction

Anyway, carry on...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
9. Kiersten
Oh, one more thing, KHR has said repeatedly that Dyson loves Bo and that's not going anywhere & we'd have to see what he was going to do about it. Also I found the "wait to be rescued" line manufactured & false but they needed some reason why he wasnt memory walking w/Bo. Now *that* wouldve been awesome
nypinta
10. islandgrl
So this episode drew a lot of subtle parallels between Dyson and Lauren.

In episode 4, Lauren admits "I made the explosives, then I trusted my brother with them." As a result, 11 people who shouldn't have been there died. This was a defining moment in Lauren's life, and caused her to be ok with a life of a healer and indentured servitude. In a way, this event is what caused Lauren to start her path to meet Bo.

In episode 7, Dyson hears about the Helskor from Trick and arranges with Flora to steal and sell them for lots of cash. Like with Lauren, the plan went awry when he put the Helskor on Flora's feet, resulting in the death of 16 people. This was a defining moment in Dyson's history, causing him to accept nobility and setting him on his path to meet Bo.

Both Dyson and Lauren were ignorant of possible consequences (Lauren's brother placing the pipe bomb in the wrong place/time or what exactly these legendary shoes did), as well as blind to the world around them. In Lauren's case, her errors cemented her desire to be a healer (and she is). In Dyson's case, his errors cemented his nobility.

Overcoming personal guilt seems to be a common theme this season. We haven't had Kenzi's backstory, but I wouldn't be surprised if it comes around episode 10 and it involves something that she did.
Mary Beth House
11. UberFaenatic
I'm trying to muster up some excitement at seeing Tamsin again but it's like this season is preying on my fears for the series...ie, forcing the Blessed Triangle (holy may it be) to what feels like a permanent status thanks to the red string of fate...and like NO Tamsin so far.

I mean 2 out of 7 episodes so far. Really Lost Girl? You bring her on to the show, you tease and excite and then 2 out of 7?

And the Blessed Triangle (holy it may be) was interesting to me for like 2 seasons. They're not meant to be long lived, much less cannonized with magical fate string.

So I'm hoping things change and that they'll move past where they are now but there's only so long I can suspend disbelief before I realize they really are going to keep up this damnable, I mean, Blessed Triangle (holy it may be) until the show goes off the air.

But I'm already starting to not care if/when that happens.
nypinta
12. nypinta
Ah. Well, I didn't read Dyson as laid back so much as playing it up for Kenzi's sake. When he was standing there while they were killing Pietra (that was her, right?) he looked freaked. Like deep down, "OMFG, it's all going to end in a cage," freaked. But his expression changed once he saw Kenzi. Because he knew they were working on a plan. And then he and Kenzi end up in the cage together and he realizes she's not handling it well, so he plays it cool for her. I didn't see him so much as fatalistic, as realistic. But his guilt didn't exactly make him very proactive. But once he saw an opportunity to save Kenzi, he took it.

I don't read the post mortems. Mostly because from snippets I see it's like she has to explain what each scene really meant and her meanings of scenes are counter to what happened and if you have to explain what you meant to do then you aren't doing it right. If they wanted an implication that Bo and Lauren were fated in some way, they had an oracle right there to say it. Because if Flora saying that to Dyson was actually Lauren saying it to Bo then later when Trick tells Dyson that him being a hero has been fortold was actually Trick talking to Bo. But he wasn't. He was talking to Dyson. (BTW, ugh, could we not do "chosen one" "fortold hero" "prophecy girl" stuff???) But I guess we are. And Bo is always at the hub. But it was Dyson's future was always tied to Bo. Not Lauren. At least not with the evidence presented in the actual, on the screen, episode. No matter how much she'd like to explain it otherwise.
Mary Beth House
13. UberFaenatic
By her expression and body language, it looks like Tamsin is close or back to being the Tamsin we had last year.



And it only took EIGHT episodes to get here. Out of 13.

But thank GOD we got that *($)%&*@! Triangle firmly established!!

#BitterWhosBitter
Mary Beth House
14. UberFaenatic
Right! When I heard the conversation between them I thought Flora was telling Dyson that she knew he didn't love her with his ONE love and that the woman for him was still to come, meaning Bo. I did not in any way take it to mean that Lauren somehow inserted herself in that moment to tell Bo that she was going to meet Lauren some day. Because Lauren wasn't in the memory yet. How could she?
@nypinta... great seeing you on Twitter! :)

What I get from this and from the possibility of screwing Dyson' s major character arc over is that they might be prepared to retcon/erase all of season 2 and 3 or anything that stands in the way of Doccubus.

At which point, I'll long since have left the show because as crazy as things have been, until Season 4, at least there were character arcs and logical character/relationship progression.
nypinta
15. nypinta
@islandgrl It is true that Dyson and Lauren have similar histories, in this sense. I sometimes wonder if the writers don't have a tally board and every time they add something to one, they then have to add it to the other. Lauren had a women in her past (present) then Dyson has Ciara. Dyson kept something from Bo. Lauren kept something from Bo. Lauren has a sketchy past. Dyson has a sketchy past. It's like Bo is the fulcrum on the seesaw and Dyson and Lauren go up and down.
nypinta
16. islandgrl
Yup, which is exactly why the triangle is tiresome. It hurts all three characters. Most of all Bo - it makes her look fickle, and it makes viewers wonder just how deeply the woman is capable of loving.

I also think that is why Tamsin was able to be portrayed so strongly last season. I saw her helping Bo in episode 6 as a neat little writers trick to avoid any triangle shipping - if BOTH Lauren and Dyson didn't believe Bo, then there wouldn't be a shipping war as to who loves Bo more. That's also why Dyson was captured by Taft - Bo was going to the compound with Tamsin to rescue them both (thus keeping the question of 'who does Bo care for more' open ended to satisfy shippers).

Tamsin is like the anti-triangle - the writers have the flexibility to put her places without worrying about shipping or balancing things out, or they can use her to affect parts of the Triangle without making the other parts look too bad (The kiss with Bo was the straw that broke the camel's back with Lauren, for example. Had that been Dyson instead of Tamsin, it would have made Bo/Dyson look awful). Kenzi was more or less this as well, but something happened during season 3 where this character started to go her own way.

Just pick a freakin' side writers. Whether it be Dyson, Lauren, Tamsin, Evony, Bruce, or the goat that Bo did it with that one time in 1x09. This season has shown that the writers are capable of writing good, interesting story for triangle members apart from the triangle.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
17. Kiersten
Actually, Bo expressly went to Taft's lab *only* to rescue Dyson. She was very clear about that. She had no idea that Doctor Lauren was also there until DL walked into Taft's office and all the pieces fell into place. There was no question that Bo was totally focused on finding Dyson
nypinta
18. islandgrl
Yup, which is exactly why the triangle is tiresome. It hurts all three characters. Most of all Bo - it makes her look fickle, and it makes viewers wonder just how deeply the woman is capable of loving.

I also think that is why Tamsin was able to be portrayed so strongly last season. I saw her helping Bo in episode 6 as a neat little writers trick to avoid any triangle shipping - if BOTH Lauren and Dyson didn't believe Bo, then there wouldn't be a shipping war as to who loves Bo more. That's also why Dyson was captured by Taft - Bo was going to the compound with Tamsin to rescue them both (thus keeping the question of 'who does Bo care for more' open ended to satisfy shippers).

Tamsin is like the anti-triangle - the writers have the flexibility to put her places without worrying about shipping or balancing things out, or they can use her to affect parts of the Triangle without making the other parts look too bad (The kiss with Bo was the straw that broke the camel's back with Lauren, for example. Had that been Dyson instead of Tamsin, it would have made Bo/Dyson look awful). Kenzi was more or less this as well, but something happened during season 3 where this character started to go her own way.

Just pick a freakin' side writers. Whether it be Dyson, Lauren, Tamsin, Evony, Bruce, or the goat that Bo did it with that one time in 1x09. This season has shown that the writers are capable of writing good, interesting story for triangle members apart from the triangle.
nypinta
19. islandgrl
ok very odd double post. Sorry about that, let's try this again.

In 3x13, Bo was looking for Dyson. But in 3x12, Bo was all about Lauren. The ambiguity is there in the writing. By putting Lauren and Dyson in the same place, it's a convenient plot point to appease shippers.

Lauren fans will think Bo loves Lauren with all her heart and there's nothing anyone can say to change their minds because they truly do have good evidence in the story. Dyson fans will think Bo loves Dyson no with all her heart and there's nothing anyone can say to change their minds because they truly do have good evidence in the story.

It keeps the 'shipping' open, which is what the writers want. Fans can look at an episode and cherry pick evidence they want to the point to prove their 'ship' is the right one. This episode only compounded on it. And it is getting frustrating.
nypinta
20. nypinta
I thought Tamsin had used Lauren's phone to track her to Taft's? I agree that Bo was focused on Dyson only, but that she had an idea Lauren was there. Tamsin too, and Tamsin was not pleased. So it'll be interesting to see how those two relate to each other when Tamsin gets her memories back...
But as soon as Bo saw Lauren she wanted to save her too. But Lauren had other plans and she decided to go ahead with them rather than side immediately with Bo and let her handle Taft. (Which I think could have been fixed if they insisted on going ahead with the Cabbot Taft scenario by having Lauren somehow give Bo a message while pretending to hate all fae for Taft's benefit. By her entrence, we know she is aware Bo is there when she walks in. She could have easily heard Bo but scribbled a note before making her entrence. One that says, "I'll help Dyson. You're mother is here." Bo, quite frankly, would chose her mother over Dyson even if Aife is crazypants. And she trusts Lauren so she'd go along with it and continue her plan of using the go juice on Tamsin and taking out all the guards. That way Lauren isn't lying to Bo's face to save her plan and, what's that phrase, "stealing Bo's agency" yet they could have Lauren take off for parts unknown like she originally did because Bo or no Bo, the Light are going to have issue with Lauren and if I were her I'd run too.

Oh right. I forgot about The Kenzi Scale and both Dyson and Lauren not believing her. That was also the writers adding to Lauren's tally sheet working with Trick behind Bo's back because Lauren was keeping tabs on Bo's health and reporting to Trick, not Bo. And that makes her even with Dyson knowing who Bo's mom was and not saying right away. (Although him and Trick keeping mum (ha) on that makes sense since Bo was still an unknown entity at the time and they were trying to prevent all out war between the sides. Kind of trumps what Bo wanted...at least for a bit. But as usual Trick wants to keep all the cards too close to the vest for too long and bad things happen. Like Norn stuff. Effin' Norn.)
Marie Sullivan
21. minime2
@Nypinta thank you for explaining the Kenzi and Lauren stuff for me and I have decided to stop reading EA's interviews because they just make me angry.

I want to say that I find the parallel between DL's sexuality and Dyson's mate for life argument spot on. In reading the backlash from the Lauren & Dyson sex scene and how so many people are up in arms about "couching the lesbian" and those same people calling to change Dyson's mating instinct, something he was born with just as DL was born with her sexuality an intriguing discussion.

I did love the episode but I am growing tired of LG simply pulling out old scripts and recycling old story lines and I am not talking about the triangle. While this season has been good I am really starting to become board of "Oh lets combine Faetal Justice, Original Skin and add a threesome" I feel like they are lacking originality.
nypinta
22. islandgrl
@nypinta:

Youre 3x06 explanation was interesting, because I saw Lauren's motivations much differently. I saw them based on Lauren's PTSD about Nadia, since Bo acted exactly like her during 3x05. Seeing this, of course Lauren would draw parallels and get help. Who wants two girlfriends to go crazy murdery on them right?

But that's the point I'm making - there is enough ambiguity in the writing and the show in general that there is such a wide array of interpretations as to characters and motivations. Some see Lauren as evil and the torturer of Dyson and Kenzi, and Dyson as a handsome, noble, hero that can do no wrong. Some see Lauren as a modern day Mother Theresa who heals the sick with a thought and Dyson as this arrogant redundant douchebag who needs to realize that he is diminishing Bo. And people in those camps are real fans of the show who use real evidence that the show gives us to support their thoughts.

And the reason why there is ambiguity is because the writers have perpetuated the triangle for a full 55 episodes now. If they stop with the triangle, the writers and actors can make clear choices as to characters, their motivations, and their roles in the story as a whole. Which will ultimately make for a better story and fans being more engaged.
Annie Moore
23. drusilla_doll
So, more references to Norse legend/Odin:

In Norse paganism, helskór ("hel-shoes") were put on the dead so that they could go to Valhalla.

Also, I wonder what a Shadow Thief can do. I am happy Dyson's really going to help Kenzi train up her skills.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
24. Kiersten
FTR while I may see Dyson as *a* handsome, noble hero, I do *not* think he can do no wrong though I also don't think he deserves the ire & hate he gets basically just for being a man. Putting fave characters on an ivory pedestal for any reason is just silly & self-defeating.

Oh and Hi @islandgrl! ;)
nypinta
25. nypinta
@islandgrl Lauren having Nadia flashbacks is logical motivation, but on the "tally sheet" I imagine the writers have, it's the action that counts. But in that season, Nadia never got a name check at all until the end. Because I think that would have been a lovely moment for Bo and Lauren if after Kenzi had been found and her and Bo talked, she confided in Bo her fears about that. I think Bo would have understood and forgiven Lauren, rather than have that distance that came between them afterward where they both kind of avoided talking about it.
nypinta
26. islandgrl
Hello @Kiersten!

I can actually go on for days about Lauren and Dyson and their similarities/differences, but I don't want to dilute my point. I wasn't pointing anyone out specifically, just trying to come up with extremes of a spectrum. Most folks have an opinion about those characters somewhere on that spectrum depending on how they interpret what they see on screen. Your opinions of Dyson have been based on how you have interpreted evidence seen on screen, and they are perfectly valid. However someone like The Gardner, for example, has a completely different view of Dyson based on how she interprets evidence, which is again perfectly valid.

And really the range of interpretations that intelligent people capable of high level reasoning shouldn't be as wide as it is. The only reason it is is because in order to keep the triangle for 3.5 seasons (really 4 if you consider the extra order for season 2) now, ambiguity has become a necessary part of the story and plot.
nypinta
27. islandgrl
@nypinta I Know!!! I was waiting for that talk for multiple episodes and was so bummed there was only a small name drop in 3x10. That would have been a beautiful scene. But they off screened so much in that 3 episode arc between 3x06 and 3x08 - the two big ones being Lauren's talk with Bo after 3x06 and Bo and Kenzi's talk about Dyson after 3x07 (to this day, I think that 3x08 had such high ratings because EVERYONE, regardless of who they ship, were waiting to hear that talk).
nypinta
28. scruffy
I'm totally FOR the love triangle! This would be the first time in TV history that a polyamorous relationship might be treated as a legitimate choice. I don't understand the obsession with Bo needing to choose one over the other. They are both interesting, beautiful and noble 'people'. AND, OMG, what's a TV show without some drama. Snooze fest! Especially 4 seasons of Bo happily married to Lauren or Dyson, or both. Its an over-the-top TV show wih completely unrealistic storylines. Enjoy it for what it is already! I have to say that I totally admire the writers' abilities to continue to creatively string out two relatonships with the main character. The subtext of Bo-Dyson and Lauren-Flora was inspired. Very refreshing and amusing episode. It was lovely to see the actors stretching their wings to do something a little more challenging. Well done LG peeps!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
29. Kiersten
@scruffy - hi and thanks for leaving a comment!

I'm not opposed to a polyamorous relationship for Bo on Lost Girl, but the show has made it so that it would be very difficult to make that a believeable situation between Bo, Dyson, and Doctor Lauren since they've spent so much time setting the fan bases and continue to openly set DL against Dyson.

I do think the episode overall was great and a lot of fun. The mind twists & turns were vastly entertaining and every time I hear Prince "Vex" lisp and chew his words, I crack up. Certainly everyone had a blast filming it and having the chance to challenge themselves. But the triangle has been played out and manipulated beyond its use and now only evokes animosity all around. I dont find having a relationship for Bo, poly or otherwise, uninteresting, (although doccutopia in S3 does prove you right about the boring factor), and one of the things that made me love Bo and Dyson together from the start is that they talked their shit out (eventually) and acknowledged the challenges in their being together so for once, we could have a relationship not manipulated "will they wont they" but a mature "how do they" and that is very interesting to me and potentially full of conflict. But instead, we got The Norn (Freaking Norn!) and everything since then relationship wise has been the same circle jerk that all other genres shows perpetuated to exhaustion. The writers have indeed strung it out to the point that Bo now appears ridiculously fickle, "loving" whomever is in front of her at the moment, and that's beginning to seriously undermine her character as a whole.
Dine Stueg
30. Nocturne
Welcome @islandgrl and @scruffy

I actually haven't seen the episode yet, because I'm getting the impression it mostly is about the triangle. Not really looking forward to that. Anway, I will watch it anyway, because I want to know Dysons backstory.

I actually would like the idea of a polyamorous relationship, but I think they killed that option early, because Lauren and Dyson don't want to share Bo.

Love triangles are done so many times in TV show and are far from original. To be honest, I can't even think of a TV show now where there wasn't any kind of love triangle. In my opinion, I don't think a love story has to involve a triangle to be interesting. It is more of a challenge for the writers to make it more exciting, because they have to come up with other challenges. Couples can have and overcome many problems without a third person interrupting. Maybe that's why I never get invested in a love triangle, because I can't see it as true love when one person is always doubting who to love and can't choose (I can stand a few episodes, but when it keeps going on for multiple seasons I lose interest). So I'm all for ending the triangle at this point.

I'm more excited for the eight episode now. Although it looks a bit like filler, the whole gang is together and I love the idea of a Christmas special . I wonder how the Fae celebrate!

Okay, going to watch La fae epoque now.
nypinta
31. nypinta
Agreed. A love trio is different than the triangle. With the triangle, it's always one person looking to the other but no one looking at each other. I think though that the original idea of the "love triangle" in the original pilot was to show that Bo can love two people and both sexes. I don't think it was meant to be such a large part of the show. Because in season two she got to have her fling with Ryan while both Lauren and Dyson had other relationships with (who could have been) awesome additions to the show. But the "one love" caveat with Dyson and Nadia being a Garuda puppet reset everything and then it got annoying. (I hate hate hate reset buttons.) And they had Lauren and Bo together in S3 but they didn't talk to each other. I found that odd. Why did it take a scene with Evony to see Lauren happy while talking to someone? Besides when they were flirting. I mean actual conversations. And would it have killed them to have them talking about something, anything and have Kenzi walk in and join them and see all three in a casual happy discussion until whatever fae monster of the week case came a callin'? Then it wouldn't feel so out of place whenever Kenzi brings up Lauren like their friends. Them all at the bar, having congragulator hot dogs is what I mean. That was a cool scene. They were all there, relaxed, going over the adventure of the day. You can see that they actually get along when not faced with whatever stressor is all up in their grill. (I'm tired. Sorry for the goofy wording.)

But I think next week is the episode to re-establish Bo and Tamsin's relationship, no matter what it is now. Then, I hope, they're going to go after The Wanderer full force.

I wonder... maybe The Wanderer isn't the big bad we think he is but he sent Bo back to take on the Una Mens because of their strangle hold on the fae and the only way they came up with for her to take them on was to be aligned, but he needed her to do it on her own which is why her memory is gone. The Una Mens are supposed to be "omni present" so if Bo can't recall her plan against them, they can't sense it...? So it is, in fact, Bo and her father working together... even if she doesn't realize it yet. Which would be nice because Bo needs at least one parent that doesn't suck.
Mary Beth House
32. UberFaenatic
The problem with that is the show said there were three big bads for season 4. 1. the Wanderer, 2. the Una Mens...and 3. Special mystery baddie.
nypinta
33. TheGardner
Well let me first say that this episode didn't piss me off nearly as much as I thought it would. As a bisexual woman I find Bo to be an insulting, stereotypical, characture of how bisexuals are perceived. For the fourth episode in a row I wanted to punch her in the face, thankfully Flora got in a good slap and I was momentarily appeased.

Episode Stuff:

So the Una Mens have death masks for Lauren and Kenzi, but don't bust them out because Bo gives them a shoe, um OK. Is that it for them or is there more? Oh and they killed Pietra, douchebags.

Everything felt really rushed, trying to cram to much into the episode, trim the fat people. Cassie seemed like a pointless addition, that role could have been filled by any random. More nauseating triangle fanservice and I am so over it I'm not even going to bother.

Charaters:

Bo - Ass. I am so tired of this dance, Dyson or Lauren or neither, seriously I don't care, just fucking pick one you self-centered, immature bitch. I will say that AS did a really great job emulating Dyson, it is the main reason why I am not as angry as I probably should be about the gratuitous faux threesome thing. She sold that it was her as him, the mirror shot was completely unnecessary, but it worked in the context it was presented. That is not to say I am at all OK with it. So Bo's decided she's the hero, good maybe now she will act like it and take the feelings of the people she calls family into consideration, but I doubt it.

Lauren - ZP made this episode. She pulled off the accent and the character of Flora was distinctively different than Lauren. As for the doc, I really want to be optimistic about her arrangement with the Dark, the woman seems to have a lot more freedoms and appears generally happy. It was nice to see her willing to risk it all for Bo and with all of these "tragic lovers" my spidey sense is tingling that Lauren might have a close encounter of the fatal kind this season.

Dyson - Is 1500 years old and still can act like a 15 year boy, whatever. KHR was at his best in this episode when, once again he was paired with KS. His scenes with RH were overly dramatic and see aforementioned immaturity in his scene with Bo in the bar. I am not sure what is going on with him this season, but his acting choices for the most part have been cringeworthy. As for the character, so we learned about his connection to Trick and how he became the "noble" wolf-hero he is today. As always I enjoy backstory, little pieces being woven into the characters, but beyond that I never had any concerns for his safety and the memory block felt a little to convenient, can't sully the wolf's reputation.

Kenzi - Loved that she called Trick being shady, to bad it was when he wasn't around. I hate it when characters are made stupid for the sake of the plot. First Kenzi sneaking in to the Una Mens layer when she is wanted by them, then not turning off her phone, come on. We are supposed to believe that she survived on the streets for years, even living underground, um OK. KS and KHR play off of each other really well and their scenes together have been some of the best in the series, I hope that their relationship is explored more, especially now that he is going to train her. Just so there is no mistake, I do not mean Denzi, ew incest.

Hale - So he's a cop again, hmm... seems like we missed a few steps here. No real movement with him, and I'm sorry I still don't see the chemistry between him and Kenzi.

Trick - RH really can't seem to layer his character. So Trick is shady and has information on Bo that he never told her about, yeah we already knew that, next! Oh and Lauren ran from the Light, with him as the acting Ash can he try to reclaim her?

ZP was amazing in this episode and really showcased the depth she brings to this show. I hope that this is not another good thing squandered by TPTB, but considering we are in season 4 I won't hold my breath. And for fuck's sake end the stupid fucking love triangle, sucks the life out of the show!
Carmen Pinzon
34. bungluna
Why did the scavenger fae get excecuted?

I still have more questions than answers, I'm afraid. We are at E8, 62% through the season, and still haven't found out too much about the Wanderer, except that he favors plaid, if he was that scruffy man wandering(heh) through Bo's Dyson memory-walk. Did I see him carrying a severed hand in one scene?

As for the sainted trinity, revolutionary would have been to set it up as a working triad. Zoe and KHR have enough chemestry when they play off each other (and not in a sexual way, before somebody jumps down my throat!) that they could totally have worked as complementary mates for Bo. Have them set up household, taking turns with Bo a la Paint Your Wagon! That would have been NOVEL!!

As for that so-called show runner, all she's good for seemS to be to instill trouble and cast as many doubts as posible. She's not a good bible keeper, she's not a good character arc developer, and she's lousy at continuity, never mind her inhability to write a decent conversation scene. She's very good at ret-conning and re-setting to correct perceived mistakes with the story arc, though. She's also great at misinformation and misdirection. Give her that.
nypinta
35. kellen
I think this is the first time in far too long that we've seen the 'triangle' members acting like adults. If they'd started that sooner, we mightn't all be so fed up with it.
nypinta
36. nypinta
I actually liked seeing Cassie again. It's nice that they're remembering some of the characters from previous seasons and what they can do. An Oracle makes perfect sense what they were doing.

As for Bo choosing... well, it's not up to her. Because, as I've pointed out elsewhere because everone seems to have forgotten, Lauren broke up with Bo. Bo is not not choosing Lauren. Lauren is not choosing Bo. It isn't actually the fact that Bo keeps going back and forth and can't make up her mind. It's that the writers keep equalizing both Dyson and Lauren and forcing these moments that aren't actually real. Neither relationship ended because Bo wanted it too. And it doesn't seem like Dyson and Lauren are going to suggest a trio anytime soon. Although in the still Lauren and Dyson seem pretty chummy next to each other during their Yule festivities.

The Wanderer can still be a big bad. Just not completely bad. (I just want someone to end the Una Mens. Harshly.)

I don't know whey killed Pietra. They just said she broke the laws. Will we find out later? Did it have anything to do with who or what she stabbed while on the case with Bo and Lauren? Or did they just want us to see a familar and sympathtic face when they were making Dyson watch as they killed her?

@kellen Powerful truth.
nypinta
37. nypinta
I hate my typing typos. Why do I never see the mistakes till after I've hit submit? FFS. I preview! I preview every time! Sorry all if reading my posts is like a stupid puzzle sometimes. What word did she mean? Is that supposed to be plural? Is that even a word!?
nypinta
38. TheGardner
@nypinta - I would say it is very much up for Bo to choose, and in many ways its pretty clear that she already has. She needs to grow up and fucking decide already; cut the one she isn't in love with loose once and for all. Then she can attempt to give it "real" shot with the other. She is afraid of rejection and so she clings to them like a security blanket. Bo doesn't get to choose the outcome, but has a choice in how she proceedes.

And I wouldn't worry about typos, you aren't heing graded :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
39. Kiersten
It's pretty clear the one Bo isn't truly in love with has already come to terms with that and cut herself loose, repeatedly, but yes, it's past time for Bo to grow up and finally recognize and accept that situation and move the fuck on rather than continue to delude herself with an idealized fantasy that manifests in slow-motion shots and an actual golden halo and never really existed in the first place . Way past time.
nypinta
40. nypinta
The assumption being that Bo isn't in love with one of them. And how can she be afraid of rejections when she's already been rejected?

Either Bo and Lauren need to have the 'friends with benefits' arrangement or Dyson and Lauren need to have an intervention with Bo. Kenzi could decorate. Then ske-daddle. Wouldn't that be a fun conversation that they could cut away from and fade to black and never tell us what happens...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
41. Kiersten
Ha! You know that's exactly what they would do too. I'm of the opinion that Bo is in love with both of them, but her love for DL is so idealized and immature and without full recognition of all of DL's parts. Bo even says in E4 of this season that she never even really knew DL and that's very true. That slow motion, golden halo schtick was a perfect example of the way Bo sees DL. She's put her so high on a pedestal, the only way is down. And DL keeps trying to tell her and even show her otherwise, but Bo clings to her fantasy, so afraid of being in a real love relationship and all the unpleasant that can come with it, that she refuses to accept anything but her idealization.

With Dyson it's raw and real and honest, yes honest, and they talk and they fight and they call each other on their shit and it's not always wonderful but it is always true and fierce. Love with him and for him has hurt her deeply before and she's not ready to fully risk that painful level of intimacy, not ready to grow up and deal with all that a mature relationship requires. Much easier to chase after the fantasy that is DL.
Carmen Pinzon
42. bungluna
I think that Bo just doesn't know how to do mature love yet. She was traumatized as a teen, killed her first love, spent 10 years isolated and killing anybody she ever tried to get close to, then met Dyson and POW. Then, when that proved hard, she bounced off to Ryan and then hooked up with WLauren, who represents in her mind (I think) the idealized 'human' white-picket-fence love that is never going to happen. She's freaking Fae!

Now she's in limbo, bouncing all over the place thanks to our gutless writers. I wish they would just let her breath and have a little break in the love department; allow her to mature a bit, please.
nypinta
43. TheGardner
The only way I will buy "Bo is in love with Dyson" is if she ever acts like it and I haven't seen that from since mid-season 2. Not that she has treated Lauren much better, but she has never used her the way she has Dyson.

Bo's subconscience projected Lauren in to the "lover" role would speak to the obvious connection between them. LG is anything but subtle and it has been drummed in over the course of this season that she "is in love with Lauren" she keeps Dyson as her back-up plan and its gross. What does it matter if Lauren has rejected her? Dyson said that "Bo is in love with Lauren, but I still fight for her." so why shouldn't Bo do the same or is it only "romantic" when it's Dyson?

It feels like they want to go there with Bo and Lauren then hold back and keep Dyson in the mix so he stays relevent. At this point a polyamorous relationship between the three of them wouldn't be plausible with the characters they have created and would feel like a major cop-out.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
44. Kiersten
Its exactly when someone has to keep reiterating that one loves another over and over and over again while constantly showing exactly how much they do not work together as a couple that you begin to realize the whole "doth protest too much" axiom has to apply. Utilizing Dyson as a mouthpiece for the same tripe was the last straw that proves they are definitely trying too hard and in fact what is shown is the exact opposite. It got pathetic and sad somewhere around the umpteenth "we're on a break!"

Of course Bo's subconscious put her last relationship partner in the lover role. Should she have used Dyson? So then Dyson would be banging himself in the memory walk? Or should Bo have superimposed Kenzi, her sister, in the lover role? Perhaps a dress on Vex as he sashayed through the club singing French torch songs? Of course Flora's role was played by DL in Bo's subconscious; There was simply no other option left. That's pretty much the entire reason right there. It was DYSON'S memory. Dyson's lover. Dyson's words. Bo was the conduit and by the time she reached that moment with Flora, her subsconscious had begun to bleed into Dyson's so it was almost entirely Dyson and Flora alone at that point.

Yes, Bo has been a shit to Dyson but I'm not going to reiterate all the many issues that apply here b/c I'm tired of hitting my head against a wall of BUT HE'S A MAN AND I DON'T LIKE HIM. Whatever. She's also been a shit to Kenzi and Tamsin and Trick and even Hale. About the only person she hasn't bitched out is DL, and frankly if you can't unload your angst on your "loved" one here and there, you don't really trust them with your true self.
Carmen Pinzon
45. bungluna
I took that "fight for her" comment to mean that Dyson fights in her name, for her cause, at her side; not a statement of a man fighting for the love of his woman.

But I forget that a man fighting for, with or by the side of a woman is the utmost in douchbaggery.
Annie Moore
46. drusilla_doll
OMG. SC blog is just ridiculous tonight. There are fans demanding Dyson be forced to experience having sex with Hale (or another male) in an AU to even the score. Newsflash: Um, Lauren NEVER was made to experience sex with Dyson in the flashbacks. She wasn't actually there.

I can understand that the image of ZP and KHR being in a sex scene together was offensive to some people but lord almighty, the petty calls of tit for tat are equally offensive if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, I'd certainly have a giggle if our male actors mixed it up in some silly bizarro scenario. Kissed each other or even got hot and heavy while being body swapped or whatever. However, what these disgruntled fans are calling for is that the character DYSON be forced to be made female and get boned by Hale or Vex. Others on another site were wanting Lauren to use a strap on and bang him in the ass doggy style.

Classy, eh?

Sorry, but the show has indicated that he's pretty het. Vex's flirty barbs have been fun, but I just can't picture Dyson getting sexual with any of the other male characters, especially not now when he's so devoted to Bo. He's good friends with Hale and loyal to Trick, but he's never indicated he wanted any m/m action.

We've already had Dyson in a crack ship situation with Kenzi this season. Where they both experienced real emotions, real kisses and passion etc. That was something of a violation considering their minds had been tampered with. But luckily it went no further than some making out.

This call for 'payback' is just plain idiotic and hypocritical. But I shouldn't be surprised that Dyson's once again seen as the horrible aggressor who needs to be punished and humiliated in some way - even though it was BO the sexy succubus who was actually getting her kink on, seeing herself bang Lauren/Flora as Dyson.

/sigh.

Personally, I'd be cool if Vex had a boyfriend, or there were more gay or bi characters on the show. But to demand it of Dyson just to even some imaginary score makes me roll my eyes so damn hard right now.

I get it, people are butthurt over the 10 secs of the episode, but jeez, stop making ludicrous ultimatums which wouldn't even make any character sense for the show.

And correct me if I am wrong, but Dyson is the ONLY regular or recurring character on the show who's ever been subjected to a rape and been violated against his will. I think that's more than enough humiliation/shame sexually, don't you think?
nypinta
47. TheGardner
@Kiersten - So then by your logic Dyson running around telling multiple characters that "he loves Bo" it showcases how they don't work as a couple? Is it so hard to fathom that Bo inserted Lauren into the lover role because she is the one she really loves? You can't have it both ways; if I am supposed to swallow that it was just Bo's mind projecting Lauren(her lover) onto Flora and that's who Dyson was screwing then Bo could just as easily projected Dyson(also her lover) into the role.

Also it's pretty narrow minded to think people don't like him just because he is a man or that he is interfering with Doccubus. Since I can assume that comment was at least indirectly pointed towards me these are my reasons for disliking him, on a side note I'm guessing the list is almost as long your reasons for disliking Lauren. He is a poorly written character that serves no purpose in driving the story forward and has had very little development mired in the same story line since season 1 revolving around his love for the main character whose chemistry with him has seriously dwindled and for the male archetype has to be made weak to facilitate a stronger female. Also KHR's acting this season has been very hit or miss and he seems to only be on point when partnered with KS or RS, even his interactions with Hale were off and they used to have such a great bro-mance people(not me, Team Kuscles all the way) ship them.

@Bungluna - It's open to debate, but considering Dyson said the line to Hale while telling him to "go get his girl" makes it less ambiguous. When Dyson has Bo's back and is actually supporting like in 2x12 he is fine, I feel like the douchbag line is crossed when his archaic chivalry kicks in and he tries to be the hero.
nypinta
48. TheGardner
@drusilla_doll - I was actually more upset over the Lauren to Laurence from last season as that had Bo "on a LGBT friendly/no labels" show gender swapping her female lover to fit in with the desperate housewives. The faux threesome was unnecessarily gratuitous(we already had a shot of Bo as Dyson in the mirror when Flora/Lauren was sitting at her dressing table), I can understand why people are upset, and frankly TPTB should have known better. It's a double standard though, no one was outraged when Bo imagined Kenzi making out with Lauren and that's what I have to remind myself when I start to get rage-y.
Annie Moore
49. drusilla_doll
@TheGardner: I heard it as 'fight on her behalf' in my head when he said that, but - as you say - it's open for debate. In fact, I don't object to that line having multiple layers. Dyson told him to go talk to Kenzi because Hale was dithering and being insecure. Dyson knew from experience how taking too long to articulate feelings can lead to missed opportunities. He didn't want Hale to have the same regrets he carried. It was more of a 'don't miss your chance' tip than a 'go be manly and claim Kenzi' tip if you ask me.

Dyson IS a hero, but I agree he can jump in too quickly sometimes and Bo lets him know when he's being annoying that way. It's definitely a part of his persona, as Flora also pointed out in the latest ep. Mind you, Bo is also quite reckless in that regard. Still, they manage to work well as a team.

As for Lauren vs Dyson for Flora, come on, the part was written for Zoie so she could have fun doing something different. It would be too confusing for an audience to have Dyson be Flora while Bo was also being him and exploring his memories of the event. Besides they wanted Dyson to be in peril and sit this one out and bond with Kenzi. Bo didn't know who Flora was, but she saw a sexy singer (who apparently was giving Dyson a hard on) and projected Lauren. I'm fine with the symbolism of her being the doomed lover. Whom he/Bo is not fated to love. It makes his truly falling for Bo even more poignant.

ETA: I agree, they didn't need to change from Lauren to Laurence. The fact that they made a point of having Bo do that to fit in was irksome.
Dine Stueg
50. Nocturne
I've seen the episode. I liked:
-Trick being a ninja. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I like Trick for being a shady kickass grandpa.
-Kenzi becoming a shadow thief
-Dysons past and meeting Trick
-Bo being Dyson
-The last scene at the dal. I want more moments of the gang together talking.

I didn't like the lack of Kenzi/Hale. I'ts the first episode after they're together and they talk like three sentences with each other. Come on, throw me a bone, Lost girl.

@drusilla_doll. Agreed on the madness at SC. I'm really trying to understand the outrage of some people by the Dyson/Lauren scene, but I don't get their reasoning.

This was on the show: Bo is Dyson, she sees Fiona as Lauren. They're having sex and Bo gets turned on. That was all.

It was not even Lauren! It was in no way implied that Lauren wants to have sex with Dyson (she was even disgusted a bit by the thought of Dyson thinking of her like that) or that Lauren needs to be cured by a man. I think the problem is all in the interpretation. If some people will think after this scene that all lesbians need a man, the serious problem is with the people who even think like that. People who will have that opinion after seeing this scene, obviously already had a wrong idea of homosexuality to begin with. So, don't blame the show. See it as an opportunity to have a discussion with people who react like that.

I actually would like to see a sexual gay scene between two males in AU, but it does have to make sense and not be a way to even the score, because Lauren wasn't humiliated in any way. ZP even called this her favorite episode of the season, I really don't think she would say that if the sex scene was supposed to be hinting at an antigay message. She probably wouldn't even have played the role then.
Annie Moore
51. drusilla_doll
I think that viewers have a right to point out that - for them - it perpetuates a trope we really don't want to see on TV anymore, even if it was inadvertent. The writers should have known better. I just think the call for 'equivalent recompense' at Dyson's expense is going way too far.
nypinta
53. nypinta
Yes and no. I'd say yes if there wasn't already a contingent of fans that no matter what will heep hate on Dyson, usually despite whatever is actually happening on screen. Every week after every episode I see on twitter and tumblr posts of "douchebag," "dyboooooring," "Just die, Dyson," and rants about how he should go away, stop interferring, Bo is a bitch for being with him when she loves Lauren, and he should "grow a pair" or "grow some balls". Which, as a woman, that last pisses me off because why is it OK to use femininity as a default insult? I am tired of that one. I'm also annoyed that it's ok to wish him dead. Why is that ok? The hate and vitrol aimed at him far outweighs any valid critique of his character. Period.

I have more issue with Bo Place Like Home and using a transvestite character as the villain in the season three opener. I also find it strange that Hale, Trick, and Dyson are all portrayed as clearly sexually attracted to only the opposite sex yet Evony, Tamsin, Bo, Vex are all either clearly or hinted at being bisexual and it falls along Light and Dark lines. Plus the show has serious issues with consent. But that last episode was not in any way implying that Dyson thinks that all Lauren needs is "a good man" to make her change her ways. It was supposed to be a fun episode for the cast and the fans. ZP kind of got shafted in Original Skin because she only got a few minutes as Reynard the Anarchist, so this time she got the staring role. Would everyone have preferred that Bo insert Evony in the Flora role? Or Tamsin? Then Lauren would only have been on the screen when she was in Kenzi's room (and why were they in Kenzi's room....??) And her brief stint in the memory. It was supposed to be a Dyson heavy episode, by the way. It was his backstory. One that a lot of fans have been waiting several seasons for, so the posts also bitching about "another wolf" episode also grate. He was in the first two more because AS was out and the writers decided it wouldn't be logical to have Lauren heavy episodes at the start. But neither of those episdoes were about him. Then Lauren got an episode with her backstory and plot motion. Now Dyson does. The episode had so much that it accomplished from giving the actors a chance to stretch, fill in backstory that also had forward momentum with The Wanderer and Bo finally calling out Trick, as well as opening up the idea actually of a Bo/Dyson/Lauren trio. Not because Lauren would ever consider Dyson as a sexual partner, but by having her in his memory while wearing the Thread of Fate could have bonded Dyson and Lauren. He could feel Bo in his memory. Lauren was there too, even if only briefly.

And for the record, when Lauren said, "Dyson's family" she could have meant it that she knew Bo considered him family. Not that she did. But, despite how much people want her too, I don't think Lauren dislikes Dyson. He's come to her defense many times, he speaks highly of her, and she knows that although he had his love back he didn't interfere when she and Bo were together. He does not deserve any negative feelings from her.
nypinta
54. Darthfaeder
@Nypinta I am pretty sure the reason why the male characters are clearly straight is because alot of the male viewers watch the show for the girl on girl action and they don't want to see any dudes doing each other. I still haven't watch the episode yet. I'll do it later but from reaction from other forums and blogs the PTB should be scared as hell. People are furious.
Wallace Le
55. Sci-Fi-Enthusiast
The Rant:-
I have been following the commentary. It seems as though the writers are making Bo into some sort of psychologically unwell individual. She can’t take no for an answer. What’s up with these writers? They have clearly established that Bo and Lauren cannot meet any of each other’s needs (not sex, not feeding, not intellectually, not emotionally). Lauren understands this and has moved on. We now have an obsessive/compulsive Bo. Bo seems not to know, that even with care, she will over a very short time deplete Lauren’s life. She knows Lauren cannot feed her and is not sexually compatible with her. Why are the writers going there, AGAIN? The writers are not portraying heartbreak, they’re portraying unhealthy obsession. Why make Bo look like some pedophile.

Trick or somebody, needs to sit down with Bo and tell her she cannot be with any human. She will drain them of life in short order even though she is not explicitly feeding. Bo needs to have several humans per week to keep up day to day energy. Why do the writers have Bo/audience on this crap still? Bo can satisfy any human sexually with just a touch, why go through the bedroom charade. Bo being intimate with a human is like an adult having sex with a 2yr old child.

What’s this crap about Bo and Lauren having marathon sex or quickies? No, Lauren has sex, Bo imagines herself to be having sex because she gets so little out of it. Bo is like King Kong jonesing after Ann. The Kong, in “love”, seems not to realize the “relationship” is not going anywhere for obvious reasons, and what is needed is another (several others in Bo’s case) of the same species.

Lauren sees Bo as just an uneducated simpleton, with teenager emotional and intellectual development, and superpower sexuality. The writers wanted Bo and Lauren to be in a loving intimate relationship, but they never portrayed them that way. They showed bedroom scenes that don’t make sense given Bo’s superpowers and her need to feed. They made Bo seem like the village dunce with the monogamous Succubus bit (with a human at that!), Lauren the super-scientist looked like an idiot with that one too.

What the heck is Bo doing with Dyson alone, aren’t we past that already?!. Dyson cannot feed her nor satisfy her sexually by himself. Why isn’t Ryan around to help out, he is Dark Fae. Ryan was the only one that seemed to understand Bo’s needs and he actually brought another female Fae to join the sex/feeding. Bo needs more than one capable Fae for sex and feeding. She cannot do it with only Dyson. She cannot do it with Dyson and Lauren only since Lauren is a non-contributor. Technically speaking the ideal situation for her would be Dyson, Tamsin, Ryan, and some likeable version of Evony, with Lauren (for obsessiveness) on the side.

Lost Girl needs to find itself, Bo, needs to come to terms with herself. A truly sex-positive Lost Girl, a truly self-appreciative and self-loving Bo will find many true loves (any beings that are honest, trustworthy, feeding capable, and sexually capable, and attractive (to her) would do). Lost Girl will only live up to the high hopes I had for the show, when it presents a Bo that fully acknowledges, loves, and respects who and what she is, in charge of her needs and life and will not countenance any prospective partner who does not respect her, and her requirements unreservedly.

So here we are, in season 4, Bo, still in a “triangle”, with two characters, Dyson, and Lauren who cannot satisfy her basic needs (see Maslow’s hierarchy of needs), either singly nor together (Lauren being the more egregiously absurd than Dyson in this regard). Once we can get past this then we can have storylines about the Fae world and the Sci-Fi supernatural stuff I like.

This supposed story/world invites more critiquing and derision than suspension of belief. I don’t see a fifth season of this foolishness in the offing.
Susan White
56. whiskeywhite
I'm coming in a day and a half late and, as I feared, not having seen the episode. But, as usual, I can't resist having my say. I appreciate @keets raising her concern, even though she's probably not here any more to see me say so. She's absolutely right about the distastefulness of an image of Dyson having sex with Lauren (I understand it wasn't that, but apparently could have looked like that). And I agree as well with her negative assessment of ep. 3.01, which I absolutely hated (and will use that word in that case). And I'm going to bet dollars to donuts that when confronted with the criticism, the producers are going to say, "Oh no, no, no, we didn't mean to suggest that" just as they did about the violence against the transgendered warden.

I think that once again they're not thinking about the wider political ramifications about these "fun" plots and "gifts" to the fans. They're acting as if we live in a post homophobia world which, as I've said multiple times, we do not (just as we do not live in a post sexist or post racist world). One of things I love most about Lost Girl, and constantly say to promote it to people, is that it envisions/portrays a world where herterosexism, sexism, racism, etc. do not exist ("no labels," although the roots of these problems are great deal deeper than labels). But at the same time, and in fact for the same reason -- that there is an implicit critique of the realities of our world -- the images it projects are profoundly political, whether the viewers realize it or not (and many do, especially in the LGBT* community). So for that reason, as I have said ad nauseum, I don't believe that one can separate the characters from how we view them in the real world.

Having said all that, I thought everyone -- @keets, Kiersten and everyone else -- was very 'classy" in that discussion. And I agree with the many points made about not generalizing about the people who participate here. I am one of the more pro-Lauren people here, I have been an activist in defence of LGBT* rights for some 35 years, and I prefer Bo/Dyson as long-term partners over Bo/Lauren (though I also quite liked Dyson/Ciara and am totally up for Levony and/or whatever the Bo/Tamsin couple is called).

I'm working on a strange computer that is driving me crazy, so you may all be glad to hear that my comments will likely be limited for the next week and a bit. But I'm reading!
Susan White
57. whiskeywhite
Yes! @scruffy (and welcome!), a polyamorous relationship for Bo! What I've wanted all along. And @Sci-Fi-Enthusiast gives us a rich cast for that. But, there's no way the writers are going for that. They're too invested in Bo-monogamous-with-Dyson OR Bo-monogamous-with-Lauren. So much for the progressive, sex-positive show; it's not truly challenging at all in terms of of current sexual/relationship conventions. I'd rather watch Sister Wives for that.
Annie Moore
58. drusilla_doll
I don't see why they can't have a polyamorous relationship. Or at least try it out. No Dyson/Lauren shenanigans, obviously, but perhaps they could share being her romantic partner. LOL, get to be with her three days a week each and on Sunday's she goes out for a big all-you-can-eat buffet.
nypinta
59. nypinta
@Darthfaeder Probably. But they don't even have any Light fae pairings that are of male/male. They don't need to show sex scenes, but they don't have any even as background characters or a one off fae couple of the week. I find that odd, is all.

@Sci-Fi-Enthusiast That's an interesting comparison, Bo to King Kong. But I don't now if what she does, the way she feeds on chi, does take any life off a person. Yes she can kill someone, but I figured that chi was like blood, it was a renewable resource. So her taking chi is like us taking blood from a donor. Take too much and you kill a person. Take just a little and they'll be fine after a cookie and some juice. But she does drain whomever she is with if they are the sole source. At least it was that way. But they implied that after The Dawning Bo was supposed to be stronger or whatever and that she wouldn't need as much chi to survive. I think she's just kind of insatialble due to the nature of her power, not so much because she actually needs that much to survive. And IIRC Lauren was giving Bo shots to curb her hunger but as a result she needed more chi in times she needed to heal. So, like in S3 when Bo got hit by the car and tried to heal using Lauren, that she might not have been able too not because Lauren wasn't enough but the combination of Lauren being human on top of the shots inhibiting her natuarl healing power. So, it's hard to say definitively that Bo can't be with a human since the one time she was in an exclusive sense she was going through a physical change and required more than any one person could supply.

But all of that is the physical side of things. Emotionaly Bo and Lauren weren't that compatable. But sometimes I think Lauren jabbed at Bo's lack of schooling and overall intelligence out of insecurity and not actual belief. But they never went back and talked that kind of stuff out, even a little. So that's just another one of those things that can be seen differently based on perspective.

As for the PTB of the show being scared, I don't think so. Yes, there are some people that are furious, but I've been looking at various feeds and the reactions the episode are mostly positive. Although I did just see one person cc both EA and KHR in on a tweet just so she could say she didn't want to see anymore naked Dyson because his "body is disgusting". No other reason than that. Just to tell Kris he's disgusting. WTactualF? I, if I were TPTB, I wouldn't have any difficulty dismissing most of the anger aimed at the show if people are going to be that horrid about it. Also, I was talking to Faenonymous about it because he was talking to people that were upset and he pointed out that most of those people weren't actually upset about the scene, but were upset that other fans wouldn't understand the scene. I think LG fans are saavy enough to get that it was Flora, not Lauren, that Dyson was with and to keep insinuating otherwise is a bit of an insult to the intelligence of the audience.
nypinta
60. Darthfaeder
@Whiskey I watched the episode and well I enjoyed it despite still no Tamsin. Oh well next episode will be Tamsin heavy and I am glad for that. Even though I enjoyed it I was sort of dumbfounded by it. Alot of crazy subtext that didn't make sense because you really didn't know who was saying what to whom? I must give LG credit though they are not afraid to sneek a graphic sex scene on to the show. I bet a bunch of doccubus fans went nuts over that scene.
@Kiersten in post #8 is see that you maybe changing your mind about Bo and Tamsin being sisters? I mean after all you did mention Tamsin being in the triangle with Bo and Dyson anyways I was just curious :)
@Sci Fi Enthusiast first of all welcome not sure if you are new here but welcome anyways. Yes the PTB are being very confusing with their writing and storylines. It's almost as if they don't know what the hell they are doing and for sure there is wwwwaaaayyyyyy to much fanpandering going on. They just need to have the guts to do it their way and live with the decision instead of trying to please everyone, but sadly the triangle still exists. I just want Bo to be monogamous and not tied down to anyone specific. I think that everyone wins especially Bo.
@Whiskey I forgot to tell you the Bo and Tamsin relationship is referred to as Valkubus.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
61. Kiersten
@Darthfader - no I haven't changed my mind, I stil think Tamsin & Bo's relationship works better if they're sisters or somehow related. But in one of the last recaps of S3, I posited that if the show did chose to explore a threesome for Bo it worked much more oorganically if it involved Bo, Dyson & Tamsin as there are emotional connections btwn Bo & Dyson, Bo & Tamsin and Dyson & Tamsin that makes such a polyamorous makeup work much better than anything that might involve Doctor Lauren
nypinta
62. stacymd2
Hi gals & guys! I wanted to pop in and say happy nochebuena, Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays.

There is so much I want to say, but the holidays is kicking my butt right now. Over all I liked 407. I thought it was going to make my eyes bleed, but I enjoyed the show for what it is.
nypinta
63. stacymd2
@scruffy & @whiskeywhite: Bo would be over the moon in a poly relationship with Dyson & Lauren, but would they really be happy? She would be able to have her stake and rice cake too. Dyson & Lauren might put up with it because Bo would be so happy, but ultimately they would be unsatisfied.

The triangle would have been more interesting if it was between Tamsin/Bo/Dyson, because they have much better chemistry & Tamsin can give as good as she gets. The snark between D & T would have been all kinds of fun. At this point, we are stuck with what we got.

I actually agree with the Church of Lauren regarding the brief image of Dyson sexing the image of Lauren. I think EA & JF knew it would anger Doccubus & did it anyway. That was the point. Both have said many times that they expect angry responses to S4.

On the other hand, keep things in perspective. ZP is an actress playing a role--Flora, during that sex scene. Lauren is a fictional character. ZP is a lesbian, so she would never agree to do anything anti-LGBTQ. Also, Lost Girl, EA & JF have been very pro-LGBTQ. In the Bo-Dyson / Lauren-Flora sex scene it was NOT Dyson & Lauren. Lauren is still wolf penis free.

To all of the new posters, who I didn't welcome before, Welcome!!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
64. Kiersten
I think it needs pointing out that Dyson was NOT having sex with Doctor Lauren but rather was with Flora who is not a lesbian and was played by ZP who made Flora as diametrically different from DL as she could manage. It was Bo who was with her manifestation of DL if anyone.

CAVEAT: I'm writing this on my phone & without my glasses & with a psychotic auto correct so who knows what y'all are actually reading
Mary Beth House
65. UberFaenatic
No worries about what your phone might be typing for you, @Kiersten.

So far so good, except for the part where you said something about a gnome in a tutu. Damn autocorrect, amirite? ;)
Carmen Pinzon
66. bungluna
Felices Pascuas to all!

@stacymd2 - thank you for "Church of Lauren" and "wolf-penis free". These phrases just tickled me pink!

@Sci-Fi-Enthusiast - Very good analogy about Bo being the King Kong of sexfae!

I think the show had a chance, at the beginning, of developing some viable form of triangle between Dyson-Bo-Lauren, but they blew that long ago. In a previous post I referenced "Paint Your Wagon", a musical (!) with Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood sharing a "wife" in the Wild West. Still may not have been enough for Bo, but it could have been made to work. Now I think it's too late.

I don't think Lauren hates Dyson. They had that great scene at the end of S3 in the Dahl about getting over Bo.

Part of the problem with LG for me, is the fuzzy pov. In sci-fi, you either get the humans as the sympathetic moral compas, or the supernatural group. In LG, they waffle too much.

If Bo was truly happy to be Fae, she would learn about that and forget about the human pattern she learned from the "simple country folk" (still hate that!) who raised her.

If the human pov is the prevalent one, then Bo and Lauren need to stage a revolution and all Fae need to die. This includes Bo, who is, after all, a serial killer of humans.

I agree that Brian (?) did bring out the best in Bo. He fed her properly, helped her lighten up and showed her more of the Fae world.

One last thing. In this episode Bo was projecting people she knew onto Dyson's memory. That said, she projected males into men characters and females into the women. Thus Vex as the Prince, Kenzie as the bartender and Lauren as the singer/lover. Trick was himself. Hale should have made an appearance, imo. Bo went down the list of the people she knew best to cast the characters in Dyson's memories, so only Hale was really missing. Tamsin is still lower down in Bo's personal repertoire company, again imo.

Unless we are now postulating that people should be cast as their sexual prefernces rather than as their gender and characteristics...
nypinta
67. nypinta
I think the only reason some of the people Bo knew appeared was her conciousness bleeding through but didn't necessarily mean that all of the people she saw had to have a coresponding person from her life. But each of the roles she did fill seemed to be more because of who they were to Dyson. Lover-Lauren. Sister-Kenzi. Enemy-Vex. So her brain created short cuts so she would know who was what to Dyson. Trick was Trick because he was Trick. lol. There was no person in the memory that Hale could have represented that was similar to how Bo and Hale are together. Unless Angel had a boyfriend... he could have been shoehorned in there. I do wish they did more with Hale, but there just wasn't room for him this time.

And thinking about the scenes with Bo in Dyson's memory that anyone could see as Bo's subconcious taking over and it being about Bo and Lauren was actually the scene where Lauren had gone into the memory as well and Bo sees her, thinks she is Flora, and says that she has no reason to go back because "you're gone". Was that Bo talking to Lauren or was that Dyson talking to what he thinks is Flora? Bo is confused in that moment. She just buried Flora as Dyson. So why does when Lauren enters Dyson's memory does she see Bo instead? And why does she presume that Bo is talking to her about her when she says, "you're gone"? Of all the scenes that I see online Doccubus fans complaining about, it's actually that one that should bother them. Not the imaginary slight of no one thanking Lauren. Not the one where Bo wakes Lauren up and then says, "I know how to save Dyson!" Because, uh, hello, that's WHY THEY WERE ALL THERE! But Lauren telling Bo that she has Dyson. That was basically Lauren saying "Yes, we're over. You don't have me. But you still have Dyson." I know it probably made people happy that Bo expressed grief over Lauren but it seems they missed that part, Lauren telling Bo she has Dyson. Because they forget that because right after Bo has to kiss Lauren to wake her up, to save her. (Hey. I don't recall anyone saying thanks to Bo!) But it's a pretty significant moment, IMO.

So was that episode not only to give us Dyson and Trick's backstory, end the Una Mens stranglehold on the fae, give us another clue into the Wanderer, but also Bo accepting that she no longer has Lauren? Because at the bar, Bo turning towards Dyson when she made that "destiny only gets you so far..." line about needing work to stay together seemed significant to me. And the expression on Lauren's face seemed to indicate it wasn't lost on her. (Which was well played by all concerned, IMO.)

Next week looks like Krampus comes to town. I hope he's there to collect the Una Mens. Because they have been very naughty indeed! I'm eager to see how Tamsin and Bo work together now after everything that has gone on between them. And what the hell Dyson means when he says he'll train Kenzi to be a "shadow thief" (if that is what he said?)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
68. Kiersten
@Nypita - I noticed *both* those instances of DL reminding Bo she has Dyson and again Bo address Dyson specifically about the destiny stuff and how DL reacted to that (rather calmly and unsurprised). And yes, they all played it beautifully but KHR & ZP especially can really rock those quieter, more subtle and significant non-verbal moments. And I do think that Bo saying "but you're gone" was a mix of her reflecting Dyson's response to Flora and her own coming to terms with DL being gone from her romantically bleeding together there. And yes, that was totally DL once again trying to get through to Bo that their relationship was over and it makes senses too that it would take almost losing herself in a memory walk in someone else's head for Bo to come to terms with losing DL as it took almost losing herself to her worst nightmare to get her to move on from losing Dyson. Apparently, Bo processes her shit better through a metaphysical crisis

It's also gets missed that DL laughed with Bo when she said she knew how to save Dyson. She too was relieved that Bo had figured it out because the whole reason DL was there was to save Dyson. She's already let Bo go (several times actually) and is at peace with that. This is no conflicted doctor. That doesn't mean she doesn't still have feelings for Bo, but the sycophantic pining above everything else has almost entirely petered out.

But when you're actively searching for imaginary slights against the character you've idolized and idealized to an unrecognizable degree, you're going to find them even if you have to make them up. Repeatedly.
Dine Stueg
69. Nocturne
Merry Christmas to you all :)

Hm... Krampus. It is a weird coincidence Krampus was also in the last episode of Grimm before the winter break. There he would collect the naughty children (well, teenagers), put them in a bag and hang them in the tallest tree, so he could eat them later (gross!).

Does anyone know what the original story of Krampus is?
nypinta
70. Nypinta
I think it's German. But a few countries have an alternative to Santa that shows up and does awful things to kids if they've been bad.
nypinta
73. Georgiana2494
First time I'm posting and as much as I could comment on the Bo, Dyson and Lauren situation I think you all have it covered. I had a thought and would really like to get your opinions on it.

@nypinta mentioned it at the end of her comment #31 - about Bo's memory loss and Bo working with her father. I was wondering if the Wanderer took Bo to make her use the Helskor. And since to use them she would have to be the "True Hero" maybe she chose the Dark to negate herself from that true hero status. Does that in anyway seem plausible?

Merry Christmas!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
74. Kiersten
Hi Geroiana2494! Thanks for posting.

That's a great idea. Everyone seems to really be jonesing over those shoes.
nypinta
75. Darthfaeder
Hello Georgiana welcome to this awesome forum and here is hoping that you have a Merry Christmas. I'd also like to wish and hope a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all my friends here at the H&H.
I am afraid that I don't know much about the Helskor and as far as her being dark and the memory loss goes. I think that we are just going to have to stay tuned to see what the PTB have instore for us?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
76. Kiersten
Happy Christmas everyone.

Thanks for being faetastic sailors of your many 'ships.
nypinta
77. Darthfader
@Kiersten thanks for being our awesome captain. We may not all agree on what we think we happen on the show, but we all love the show and enjoy talking about it here. I raise my perverbial glass to all of you awesome peeps and wish nothing but the best for all of you for the up and coming season!!!!!!:)
Susan White
79. whiskeywhite
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. To fellow shippers and non-shippers and to our fearless Captain K. Welcome Georgiana2494. Keep those good questions coming. I'm dying to see this episode and the next one. Then I'll re-read all of your good comments with better understanding.
nypinta
80. Stacymd2
Hi all! Merry Christmas!! I hope all of you are having a great day.

I am most looking forward to Dyson training Kenzi, seeing Kenzi & Hale try to make a go at a relationship, Tamsin's role with the Wanderer and Bo wearing the Hell Shoes. The best thing that 407 did was wetour appetites for what is to come.

I loved ninja-Jedi Trick, all of Dyson-Kenzi's scenes, ZP's singing, Cassie. I loved the gang coming together at the end to the Dal with hot dogs.

I didn't love how ZP, KS, PRA sounded like awful Pepe le Pew impersonators. The costumes looked to modern. The Hell Shoes looked like Mary Janes from Payless. All of the plot was to convenient: the weak Prince carrying a valuable item like the shoes with him instead of having it heavily guarded; Trick showing up in the nick of time. Also, it was predictable that D would kill Flora and I called Bo (as D) having sex with someone (played by ZP) before even seeing the episode.

I am looking forward to Tamsin coming back next epi.

Damn it LG! Still no Wanderer?

407 was fasted paced and did further the plot. It was a fun episode.

My three major complaints:

407 was no Original Skin, not by a long shot. AS played it as Bo in the 1800s, at no point did she take on Dyson's mannerisms or style of speech. To be fair, the writers wrote it that way and the director must have told her to play Bo, not Dyson.

There is a fine line between over the top and cartoon and ZP stepped over that line and continued on. To be fair, she was trying to differentiate between Lauren and Flora as much as possible.

In my opinion, this does not "count" as a Dyson or Trick background story because TPTB made the entire episode about Bo and Doccubus.
Nadine Robb
81. cmm
"In my opinion, this does not "count" as a Dyson or Trick background
story because TPTB made the entire episode about Bo and Doccubus."

That was my conclusion as well. I thought it was an insult. What irks me even more though, is that with that doctors brother sl coming up soon, I bet you Dyson will not be in the episode. The rest of this episode minus the Flora crap was decent though and moved the episode forwards.
Annie Moore
82. drusilla_doll
I may be in the minority but I didn't feel that the episode was a huge ode to Doccubus. Far from it. In fact I really enjoyed how they gave a new twist to the whole flashback conceit, loved how AS, KS, ZP and PRA threw themselves into their roles and yet still managed to give us more insight into our Wolfman and served to bring him closer to Bo - while still advancing the major plots of the season.

I didn't have a problem with the sex scene and in fact it went far more quickly than I was expecting, but I respect that there were people who were offended by it. We all have different personal experiences which colour our perspective.

I loved how determined Bo was to save Dyson and prove his innocence. It was refreshing to have her less self-absorbed than usual. She had a very interesting adventure in Dyson's mind and body and it was great to have her insist on staying and risking it all for Dyson.

All the Dyson/Bo with Flora/Lauren was quite fun to watch and it was different enough that I could still suspend my disbelief and not get bogged down in it being B/L. ZP made Flora so different and AS had enough masculine swagger to make me buy into the whole premise.

I did, however, find ZP's turn as a coquettish french courtesan/con fae a little melodramatic and silly. That high pitched voice and the coy mannerisms wasn't that attractive to me. But I do commend her for really inhabiting a totally different character than Lauren.

KS was adorable as Angel and had loads of chemistry with Bo/Dyson.

I kinda liked Bo having kinky thoughts about her two rival lovers, but acknowledge that it was problematic for others.

The thread of fate/destiny anvils were hard to miss, but it was nice to have Cassie back and being far less ridiculous in persona. She raised some interesting questions, especially about Bo.

I didn't get why Lauren was 'score one for the doctor' when Bo was moaning her name when she's dumped Bo three times now. We all know it wasn't Dyson who torpedoed their relationship.

As usual Lauren made wisecracks about Dyson's intellect and jockstrap etc. But for me it just emphasises how much closer he is to Bo's own temperament.

I loved finding out that after losing his pack and that betrayal Dyson become lost and turned to stealing and screwing. It was interesting to learn how events came to a head and he finally realised he couldn't live such an irresponsible, wasteful life anymore. A hero origin story, of sorts. It also is an interesting parallel to Lauren's own turning point regarding culpability and atonement. Nice to see the moment when Dyson swore fealty to Trick. The emotion in his voice when he spoke of how arrogant and selfish he'd been was a great moment of acting for KHR.

I took the 'I love you', 'No, you don't. My love is the forest. I have a feeling your love is yet to come and when she does, she will be--' scene at face value. It was a prophetic destiny moment where Flora foretold that Dyson would fall for Bo and become her mate. Perhaps there were other subtexts for Bo and Lauren, but it made sense to me.

I liked that Lauren reminded Bo of Dyson and that's what spurred her to come to her senses and finally leave.

As much as there was a big hoopla about the visuals of the sex scene, I think the most damaging scene in terms of Doccubus was the hot dog one. It was lovely to see Bo and Dyson really connecting and discussing how intimate the experience had been. Lauren definitely clocked how much closer they'd become, but it's her own fault. If she wanted Bo back, she could have had her a few eps ago.

I think we are just going to have to accept that Bo still loves both of them and Dyson and Lauren will always pine for her when they aren't with her.

That said, I think I am turning into a Levony fan. I rewatched their pizza and beer scene and I have to say it was superb in terms of chemistry. The verbal fencing was delicious and I think Evony is a much better match intellectually with Lauren than Bo ever was. Can you imagine Bo ever thinking of procuring some rare journals of historical geniuses to please Lauren? Lauren was practically orgasming over that gift. I do think it was wise of her to not trust Evony and probably take some preemptive steps to protect herself, but there were sparks there which make so much more sense than the soft lens stuff with Bo.

And finally, I want to express my love for the Dyson/Kenzi scenes. Those two have such a wonderful bond. It was awesome to see her risking everything again to help save Dyson and to have him offering to die in her place. There's a gentle protectiveness she inspires in him which just makes their scenes so poignant. When she was close to letting her fear and panic overcome her he reached out to steady and comfort her. It was truly the sort of scene which shows Dyson's awesome qualities. No wonder she was raving about him saving their tight butts at the end. She's truly become a part of HIS family.

I think it was a good development to finally have Bo questioning how much Trick knows and is sharing. Hopefully she'll confront him in the next ep or so. She DOES need all the information she can get on The Wanderer. However, memory blockage still seems an issue. Just what did happen on that train? Why did she willingly sign on to the Dark. Why did Dyson not recall the connection between the Helskor and The Wanderer? Is the Wanderer just erasing all memories of his existence over the centuries as a way to protect himself? Will Tamsin be able to fill in the blanks as to what happened on that Train?

I'm definitely still engaged and eager to find out the answer to these questions.
Carmen Pinzon
83. bungluna
@drusilla_doll - Upon consideration, I think you are right in thinking that we are too fixated on the Doccubus slant of the episode. I blame th freaking writers who seem to revel in yanking the different factions every chance they get instead of developing a story and sticking to it.
Annie Moore
84. drusilla_doll
I was behind and watched eps 4.05, 4.06 and 4.07 in one go and I have to say that I still think we take the show too seriously and over-analyse it more than is probably a good idea. I know I get too bogged down in minutiae and sometimes focus too much on shipping moments. But when I watched the three eps in a mini marathon, I really enjoyed it. I thought that the pacing was pretty good and didn't get too hung up on things which might not support Team Badass. Even the slow mo halo-ed Lauren walk over the lawn didn't seem that terrible in retrospect.

Perhaps I am just getting to the point where I am accepting what will be will be. Our ships will have great moments and then not-so great moments because the writers seem to be trying too hard to please all sections of the fandoms and NONE at the same time.

I personally would love the writers to just focus on the story they want to tell and not pander to the most vocal sections of the fandom. But I have to accept that they do, to some extent.

If this season is showing us anything, it's the fact that pandering to EVERY ship as much as they can is not going to win them any favours.

I don't really like triangles of romantic doom, but I am still going to root for Team Badass. This has been a good season for them so far. I totally agree with @Kiersten that the sex scene where Dyson asked Bo to look at him and then they finally confronted how lost and angry she felt was a great emotional break-through. I know some fans focus on the fact that she didn't want to look at him and was channeling her rage, but the amazing part was how she realized just how wrong that was, how she confessed her fears to Dyson and he offered her his support and understanding.

Relationships DO take work, and I love that Bo and Dyson are putting in that effort to tackle those issues, sharing their inner selves with each other.

It makes her obsession with Lauren seem shallow, based more on lust and idealization and lacking in foundation, imho.
nypinta
85. nypinta
But I have fun analyzing everything. Just as I usually have fun watching the episodes for what they are. It's a dual purpose fun. So far this season I've only had issues with a line of dialog here and there, but this season is a vast improvement over the previous. Season two had a lot of cool stuff, but they let that one fall a part a bit because of the extended season and I'm more annoyed with it for wasting opportunity to give secondary characters more time rather than stretch out storylines that were painful to watch to begin with. But whatev. And in season three they tried to do an arc but it fell flat in the final episodes because nothing made much sense and Taft was a cartoon villain. So some of the issues I am having with this season are hold overs from that. And this season does seem to be a bit about either pandering or trolling the fans and it does grate a little, because when they do so it's usually counter to the story and it takes me out for a moment. Plus, I think the way they keep "winking" at fans is doing more to create division in the fandom which is sad since it seems to be counter to the inclusiveness that the show was originally supposed to inspire. Bo hates teams. She hates lables. She loves two people. Yet after every episode people shine the magic light of ship on only the scenes they want to see and think and say ugly thoughts about everything else. I had a friend on a different forum that had a theory that "trolls were made". That most people that are considred online trolls were once just regular posters but became frustrated. I myself see posts of unbelievable hate aimed at various characters and for the first time since I've been online (which has been quite a while now) I have to actually stop myself from not getting into arguments. So when there is an episode where they have a cool story idea and it's all going swimmingly and then a character says something that isn't in that moment because it's necessary for the scene but to prop up some canon that the writers aren't bothering to support through scenes it drives me bonkers. And then I have to post about it ad naseum till my brain just finally accepts it. I'm not there yet with a few things though.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
86. Kiersten
That's a lot like how I feel too. I like to overanalyze but I've also come to the point where the only way to enjoy the show any more is to just know that it's going to be a cluster and go along for the ride. I don't like DL, true, but most of what I don't like is how they're constantly shifting her character to suit her fanbase rather than just telling her story and taking whatever hits that may bring. And that's what bugs me most is how story and character and continuity are regularly changed or subjugated or neglected in order to wink at or service the rabid fan base of any ship. Just tell the damn story already and stop with the games.

I also agree that season four is a vast improvement, which I think can be attributed to the fact that they *have* gone back to the UF/Fae premise. Though The Wanderer reveal is being dragged out for the second season in a row and there was definitely a delay in getting the real story started due to Anna Silk's maternity leave (why again could they not have pushed production another 2 weeks until she was available?) this season has been rich with Fae lore and politics and more compelling that the entirety of season 3.
nypinta
87. Darthfaeder
@Kiersten it's that the kicker though? We were all calling for more Fae mythology and they gave it to us. I.E they were pandering to those of us who wanted to see more backstory and Fae mythology. As much as I despise doccubus constantly getting what they want they are not just listening to them but us too. I think my point is that we shouldn't have to tell them shouldn't they know all this? It's okay to give the fans some of what the want but not all the time. I agree with you just tell the story that you want PTB. You guys are suppose to be the professionals not the fans so do your damn job and live with the fact that you did it your way. If you fail then at least you failed on your own merit and not because you were trying to make everyone happy.
nypinta
88. stacymd2
@dursilla_doll: I do agree that "we" and LG fans in general overanalyze each episode. I am certainly guilty of this. But, I wouldn't spend time commenting on a program that I didn't genuinely love. It's also part of the fun of watching TV with social media.

I do let Doccubus, with their nasty comments about KHR and hypocritical judgements on Dyson, get under my skin. They don't deserve the time. This is just a TV show--about a succubus no less. AS, ZP and KHR are not in a relationship, nor have they ever been. AS is a happily married, straight actress with a beautiful child!

I honestly liked 407. It was a fun episode, dispite the obvious issues. I loved all of the S4 episodes thus far. Season four is hands down better than Seasons two and three. I am looking forward to the remaining six episodes.

The Trick - Dyson scenes were great. I wanted to see more of this and see Dyson's live without the Bo filter. Let's hope next season we see more of Trick - Dyson's backstory after this period and how Dyson - Hale met and became good friends.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
89. Kiersten
@Darthfaeder - I don't see the return to focusing on UF/Fae as pandering, I see it as their returning to the original premise of the show. Yes, we (and many others) were clamoring for it but that's because we wanted the show we hooked into in the first place, not the fanwanking that was S3 overall. Now we kinda have a mix of both, but the emphasis is very much more on the UF/Fae/woman power that distinguished Lost Girl in the first place. I don't see that as pandering, I see that as righting the (heh) ship.

Sure, many of the fans aren't pleased with the shitty way Bo is behaving (and @nypita has some great thoughts about the reverse sexism that's going on in regards to Bo's current behavior. Maybe she'll share...) but Bo *is* leading again (though I could do without "The Chosen One" shenanigans. Oy) and hopefully we'll see that progressing through this last six episodes.
Katherine Bloom
90. lsbloom
I always find I am much kinder to shows I binge on than the ones I wait in anticipation for week after week. Like waiting for Aoife, Garuda, Wanderer has so much build up, you need more than just a little fight on the stairs for encompass an entire season.

Right now, I find the reworked mythology, dropped storylines, retconning character, to be preventative in making any kind of analysis. Who knows what the writers meant to include, what they are going to rewrite when logic gets too much for them, what was a mistake? Like debating the potion: it lost all meaning because they messed up the ingredients list. Which is a shame, because what the show leaves me with is frustrations with all the double scripting. We know the writers engage with and pay attention to the online fandom. We know they know the disagreements and rationales. And they are constantly taking that knowledge and trying to address the fans. Without regard to story, continuity, or character--they reach out and poke the factions. That is my biggest frustration with the season, because you'll be going along and all of sudden you realize that this "dyson" episode has about 3 minutes of KHR screen time. And then you realize that him telling Kenzi the story is so much better than Lauren watching Bo saying boobs over and over again. But they wanted to "score one for the doc" regardless of whether or not she broke up and blew Bo off more than once. And has never considered Dyson "family." They just stick characters, and dialogue, and plots places to make it all work because logic is the enemy of easy plotting.

It's not about giving fans things or not giving fans things. If your idea for how the show should go coincides with fans--all the better--if your idea doesn't, who cares. I think they should be independent for the most part. I think little things can become inside jokes that you can throw about, but it shouldn't get to the point of plot.

I think they've tried very hard this season to play with the big boys and have a serialized drama. I just am not sure they are up to the task. Because instead of loving Lost Girl despite it's limitations, it is trying too hard and losing what I felt it was good at--all those excellent character moments and snippy dialogue that felt so true to life. I miss the small campy show I loved.
Nusi Dekker
91. NusiD
Great post #85 @nypinta! I am a DL fan and was on team Doccubus up until 3.10, which made me so upset that it was months before I could look at that episode again, but I accepted that it was the end of that relatinship. Yes, there are 3-4 hardcore Doccubots who are posting non-stop that the ship is still alive, posting screen caps of Flora and labling them "Lauren". They are grasping at everything to try and keep Doccubus alive. When I watched this episode, I did not sense anything Doccubus about it at all!! Flora was NOT Lauren in any form, this episode was not about reencarnation! I did not get any impression that Bo was trying to spark up a sexual relationship with DL again.

This episode established DL as a full-fledged member of Team Bo, and an integral part of Dyson's pack. It was all about Dyson, with Bo, Kenzi, and DL playing equally important roles in saving him, all working together.

This is a new Lauren this season. Aligning with the Dark while not signing anything or becoming chattel of the Morrigan, she has regained some autonomy and protection, and is free to help Bo without repercussions. She now seems comfortable with using mystical materials along with modern medicine to help her Fae friends, and has made use of the Dark Fae archives to get these materials, such as the red cord needed for Bo to get into Dyson's memory. She also saw the need to use a medium (Cassie)
as a safety measure for Bo. When Cassie bailed, she risked her own sanity and even her life, as no human had done what she attempted, being a Fae mystical thing. I think this is the first time DL has risked her life for Bo. She was not prepared to do this in previous seasons.

Ultimately, it was a combination of Bo stimulating Dyson to remember details and Dyson telling his story to Kenzi in the cell which led him to rrecognize one of the Una Mens as the murderer who framed Dyson. Kenzi had been instrumental in being able to break in to the impenetrable Una Mens torture chamber to tie the red cord to his ankle and start the whole memory process. It was a great team effort.

One thing about the episode that squicked me was that sex scene was when Bo (as Dyson) was pumping on Flora, and looks in the mirror, and Bo is really enjoying the sensation of having a penis. It was like, "Oh, it would be so great if I had a penis" like she had penis envy or something. Gross, but that was just me, I love being a woman and wouldn't want a penis for anything. Other than that, I really liked the episode.
Katherine Bloom
92. lsbloom
@NusiD I agree to a certain extent.

I'm not sure whether the writers are intending to show how similar Bo and Dyson are OR they can only write one hero type and are getting them confused. They have always been similar but it seems like the more Bo loses her vulnerability and communication skills and funny girlie quirks, the more Dyson they make her. I don't feel like AS was playing Dyson at all in the flashbacks, she was basically still Bo, but their actions are getting way too interchangeable. It was the vulnerability that drew me to Bo, not the same old same old prophecy chosen one stuff.
Annie Moore
93. drusilla_doll
@NusiD: Just a minor quibble but it was Trick who pulled a major favor in getting Cassie involved. I liked that he was also part of the 'Save Dyson' mission. She even mentions that if the UM find out what he did, he could be killed too. Because he (acting Light Fae Ash) was making deals with the Dark Fae faction on behalf of Dyson.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
94. Kiersten
I think Bo *was* playing Dyson, especially in most of the Flora scenes as she was using his words and mannerisms and even was dragged off from Flora singing b/c Dyson had left the scene back when it was real. The interactions with Angel were mostly her playing Dyson too and her voice gets a little deeper too when she's speaking as him. It's when she comes out of herself, as when Cassie shows up in the past, that she's solely reacting as Bo again. When she's Dyson, she's harder and more single focused and it stands out particularly in contrast to Flora's flighty-ness. Which is why her convo with DL in the end was, I think, Dyson responding to Flora's death. Bo's subconscious was bleeding into his, so it's a bit of a mash up, but given she/he'd just buried Flora (in the middle of the street, apparently), it was more Dyson responding to Flora's death than anything else. But it was DL reminding the Bo part of that mash up that she still had Dyson to return to that pulled her subconscious back to itself.

I think Bo still has that vulnerability but it is much less in display than it used to be, yes, but I take that more as a result of her kidnapping & The Wanderer shit & the memory loss than that she's becoming more like Dyson. Bo and Dyson have always clicked b/c they are similar but what makes them work is the balance they give one another with how they're different. One can be weak while the other is strong or they're strong together backing one another up. Bo's vulnerability has always balanced Dyson's recalcitrance & reluctance to show emotion (which has arguably improved over the seasons though he'll never be able to be described as "emo") while Dyson offers Bo someone she can rely on in the direst of circumstances. Kenzi is her heart. Dyson is her rock. "At death's door and still trying to save humans" Dyson loves that part of her because he would make a different choice, save Bo above all others, and she reminds him that there is a greater cause to serve than just saving her life. He's so used to her setting him right that way that he even knows better than to argue with her (much) anymore.

What we're seeing now is as she gets harder to deal with what's happened to her, he's giving her emotional stability by being the person on whom she can unload and share her deepest fears even about herself without fear of judgment or reprisal. Their role to each other, their balance, is shifting to accommodate the one who has the greatest present need. Dyson can not only hack Bo's baggage physically but he has never had any illusions about her, he's loved the whole package, woman and succubus, from the start and nothing she reveals now affects that. Which is why her line to him about it taking work strikes so true. From the start of them acknowleding their feelings for one another in 1.12, they've known being together would take a lot of work and a lot of accommodating each other's core nature: She has to accept that he doesn't like sharing her because that's part of his nature and he has to accept that he has to share her because that's part of her nature. And there's been a lot of shit to deal with along the way even while they haven't been together. Bo's had another serious relationship that ultimately failed on its own merits for a lot of organic reasons. She knows that it takes more than lust and the golden halo of "being in love" to make a relationship work. He knows what it feels like to have the core of your soul ripped out and, almost worse, to get it back and have to learn yourself all over again, again. They're much more mature people now (despite Bo's juvenile behavior) than they were then and anything they may form together should reflect that.

Or it would if I were writing it.
Nusi Dekker
95. NusiD
Thanks, drusilla_doll, I forgot what Trick did as part of the team. What he did was very significant.
Annie Moore
96. drusilla_doll
@Kiersten: I love how in 4.06 she acknowledged that Dyson had changed for the better when he said "Dark, Light. These are just labels. They do not define us." She caressed his face and looked rather proud and it was a lovely moment. She hadn't wanted to look at him during sex because she'd been so angry and bitter at being jerked around by the Wanderer, failing Ianka, and feeling so disempowered - but then he tells her she must have had good reason for aligning with DF and that being Dark doesn't define her. Bo feels strengthened/bolstered again and that's when they show her really looking at him. Seeing him anew and liking what she's seeing. I'd take that over intense gazes during sex.

I was very happy that the writers decided to have Dyson be the one to help her through that despair and self-doubt. It was a crucial scene of helping Bo re-center herself and not spiral into more anger and bitterness. Dyson gave her honest, emotional support when she really needed it. Is it any wonder that after sharing his memories with him so intimately in the next episode that she's reforging their connection in such a positive way?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
97. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll Exactly. Nay sayers like to focus on the myth that she was using him & he was a desperate fool begging her to look at him, but that wasn't it. She was in a really bad place and was trying to use sex to expunge the self hate and yes, anyone wouldve done for that because she didn't want it to be real. But she *didn't* choose just anyone; she chose Dyson, the one she trusts above all others, and looking at him would make it intimate & real & would mean she'd have to deal with her shit...which is exactly what happened the minute she *did* look at him. He wasn't begging for her attention or her love but rather saw, especially after the earlier glimpses in the episode that she gave him, that she was spiralling and was now washed in the self-hate and despair. He tried to pull her out of it, not for his needs but for her own good, to stop her spiralling in self-hate, to bring her back to who she truly is. As you say, it was key that it was Dyson who helped her through that black moment and pull her back from that dark edge. He doesn't even hesitate; he immediately knows the anger that's driving her, because he was there himself somewhere in the middle of S2 when he was spiralling into self-hate and being a jackhole to everyone because of it. He had to find his own way around it then because all his friends, including Hale, pretty much left him to it. He's not about to do the same to Bo now.

I love that moment when she acknowledges how he's grown and changed and how much she likes it. Its short and easily missed/dismissed and yet so important for them. She deliberately stares right into his eyes, no shields, no hiding, purposefully making up for the earlier refusal to acknowledge him now that he's helped her find her center and focus again. They're moving forward together, not necessarily in the obvious, romantic way, but in a much deeper bonding that lasts a lot longer than romance.
nypinta
98. stacymd2
@Kiersten: You know I love ya, but I disagree about AS's portrayal of Dyson in this episode. I've seen it 2x, with each viewing I see more slips were "Bo-Dyson" is smiley and reacting as Bo. Bo talking to herself ("subtle subconscious", moaning Lauren's name & "this is for research", etc.) takes Dyson out of the scene, making it Bo's reactions. "Bo-Dyson's" scene where he is in Flora's room, it starts off in a "Dyson" kind of way, then Bo comes out full throttle. After that, Bo stays out.

I liked how Bo thanked Lauren for coming and helping at the beginning of the epi. So much is made of nobody "thanking" Wonder Lauren. It is good that the writers put that line out their early.

I liked how Bo was the hero, but everyone in the gang helped...Trick pulled serious strings to get Cassie. Lauren brought the equipment and helped Bo disconnect. Cassie did her oracle thing to get Bo into Dyson's memories. Hale distracted the Una Mens so Kenzi could infiltrate their dungeon. Kenzi got the red string onto Dyson. Bo went into Dyson's memories uncovering the truth. Dyson connected to Bo in his subconscious to tell her where the Hell Shoe was hidden. All of the team members were active. There was no one person saving everyone.

No one can say Bo wasn't the leader and hero of her own tale.

I liked how Dyson's backstory fit with his character and timeline. I agree @drusilla_doll that 407 laid out Dyson's "hero origin story, of sorts." I just didn't like the execution. It showed how Dyson has changed and how he became the man he is today. Dyson has developed so much from Season one to two to three to now. I still want to know more about him.

I liked the final Dal scene with the gang where Bo & Dyson are in their own bubble reconnecting. He was funny and flirty. She loved every minute of it. "Our minds work well together". Kenzi / Hale was also cute, funny and flirty. "Fiar Tuck fetish, hot!"

Loved, loved, loved Bo's line of how: "destiny only gets you so far, actually staying together takes work." This not only applies to Lauren/Bo/Dyson, Bo/Trick or Kenzi/Hale, but the group as a whole. They all have had disagreements with each other throughout S1-S4, but families work through the tough times.

I couldn't feel sorry for Lauren sitting betweem B/D and K/L, because I don't think Lauren is feeling sorry for herself. Lauren knows she dumped Bo definitively three times already. I took the scene between Bo and Lauren in Dyson's memory as a fourth time. She told Bo to move on. Lauren has moved on & is much happier.

Bo was a little annoying with, "why hasn't he helped me figure out why I was taken." Has Bo ever asked Trick about Isabeau? The great fae war? Fae history? His & Aife's life before her betrayal? Or, who was the dark fae king he gave Aife up to? Or, how did he keep his marriage together with a sex chi eater/succubus? Or, why did he create the Una Mens? Or, do the Una Mens have any weaknesses?

For a woman who wants to live the life she chooses, she doesn't take obvious steps to get vital information pretaining to her life.

Also, I don't think Trick, Dyson, Hale, Tamsin, etc needs to explain or tell Bo everything that happened in their lives before she was conceived.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
99. Kiersten
@stacymd2 - sorry, I shouldve been more clear. Those asides were definitely Bo but, if I remember correctly, they were mostly while she was off on her own, not interacting as Dyson (outside of the sex where she was definitely watching herself be Dyson and knowing it was her in his body). My point is that while she was being Dyson, saying his words, tracing his path, like when she interacted with Trick for example, she was more him than her and I think Anna took on some of KHR's mannerisms as Dyson while she did that. There are definite moments where she's Bo recognizing what she's experiencing as Dyson, but when she's interacting as Dyson, I think it's more him than her and then she comes out of the moment in between conversations to processes what she's experiencing.
nypinta
100. stacymd2
I'm also excited to see Lost Girl's version of Krampus in 408. Online info from wiki: Krampus is a beast or devil-like creature from the folklore of Alpine countries thought to punish children during the Christmas season who misbehaved, in contrast with St. Nicholas, who rewards well-behaved one with gifts.

This should be another fun episode, especially with Tamsin back in town. I just hope the Wanderer makes an appearance. This is dragging on too long.

Also, are the Una Mens done? Have they left town...
Katherine Bloom
101. lsbloom
@Kiersten I agree about a lot of that "if I were writing it" but I don't necessarily agree that that's how it's been written. Let me clarify, Bo as a character was in Dyson'as memory, doing what Dyson did, feeling his reactions. AS as an actor--I don't feel--was doing much of a Dyson impression. She was still pretty much Bo. And she had Bo reactionary moments. Bo enjoyed Lauren's lip syncing, but Dyson enjoyed Flora. I don't take it to mean that Bo was actively doing something/controlling something/changing something or that Flora was anyone but Flora, she just looked like DL. Just Bo had some reactionary moments and she wasn't doing what they did in Original Skin where KS tried to do what KHR did and be Dyson.

Where I think the writers have gotten messed up, is several of those reactions were totally in sync with Dyson. Bo does have a separate character with all the great nuance that you remember, as does Dyson. But more and more they are writing Bo as a alpha male with frat boy humor. For me it has always been around with Lauren where Bo does take a lower class, less educated, more physically dominant role compared with DL's intellectual, interior designed life. But I prefer the Bo who twisted the jeweler's arm and loved the pendant as she left the store.
nypinta
103. nypinta
@stacymd2 I agree that Bo is insane not to be pouring through all of Trick's books and pestering him like crazy for her family history. It wouldn't be hard for them to have several volumes at the hovel next to her bed or on the couch because she's been reading them or have an episode open with her in his personal quarters finishing up another round of family history story time. But, and this is a tiny hint I'm grasping at, in the third episode Bo figures out what fae is haunting the family based on a few clues listed by the daughter so I took that to mean she has been doing some studying. The only thing that bothers me about her finally calling Trick out is that it's just over the identity of her father. Because she should be annoyed with him for so many other times he's held things to close to the vest and I would have loved if she spoke some of those aloud. Ah well. But we know that he's trying to figure out who The Wanderer is too. He was on the phone with Mae Ling and he doesn't seem to have any memory of him either, so it's weird that of all the times to be mad at Trick for not fessing up with information is the one time that he might not actually have any either! Timing is not Bo's strong suit. ;)

I do wonder how his first appearance as The Ash will go. Will he be in shiny new duds the way Hale got fancied up? Will her turn into an Ashole?

I've seen promo photos for the next episode. He doesn't look very Ash like yet. ;) (Especially not in the tub with a tie around his forehead.) I'm wondering if the punch isn't spiked and that is why everyone forgets Bo. But she also says the day is looping... and then add in Krampus... but I think it's this episode coming up with the car wash scene. I think that's Bo trying to get Lauren and Dyson's attention because they have forgotten her. If so, it makes total sense and it's funny. And I get my wish of a Dyson/Lauren buddy adventure episode. Or at least a few scenes. I mean, they went for ice cream together! Hee hee. I'm also wondering if Bo's trip in his memories didn't have an effect on Dyson in terms of his feelings towards Lauren. (No, I don't mean romantic.) But she was in his psyche and she replaced the image of his former lover whom he had a lot of feelings for even if she wasn't his ONE love, and she replaced the image of that woman with Lauren's image. What if that had a residual effect on his memories? Not to completely have replaced Flora with Lauren, but some lingering attachment that might not have been there before. And what if because Lauren had gone in to his memories too that something of Dyson was left in her mind as well? She might have only been in there for what seemed like a few seconds, but who knows what happened to her or what she saw while she was in there? Could he sense her too?
Carmen Pinzon
104. bungluna
I think Bo is designed, as so many heroes are, to act first and think later. While I dislike the fact that WonderLauren often harps on everybody else's intelectual inferiority, she is right to call Bo out on her lack of mental curiosity. Bo goes off and ACTS. Dyson does the same thing. Neither of them thinks things through.

I wish Bo would take more of an interest in the Fae history and culture, since that's the only way we as an audience will get to know things. Having Lauren or Trick spit out a bit that's needed for the current crisis is not enough world building, imo.

I keep hoping that Bo will have a come-to-faesus meeting with Trick and get some answers; it's been long coming.
Carmen Pinzon
105. bungluna
@nypinta - it would be funny if Dyson and Lauren can't remember Bo but have some lingering attachment they can't quite explaine. I've always enjoyed the interaction between ZP and KHR. Snipping at each other or just talking, they have great chemestry and know how to wring the most out of their scenes together, imo.
Suzanne Metaxas
107. SuzyM
OK have watched 407 a few times now. The more I watched the more I liked it. There were many subtle things in the episode that I missed the first time through.

I loved when Dyson tried to reassure Kenzi in the cell, and when he told her he was glad she was with him because he was a little bored it brought me right back to S1 Food For Thought. Kenzi asks Dyson to stay with her in the Fae ER and tells him she's not scared but he amuses her and she's a little bored :)

When Bo is being Dyson and having sex with Flora I didn't think she was wishing she had a penis. I think she was enjoying feeling what Dyson feels when having sex with a woman. I think most people wonder how the opposite sex feels. I think Bo was enjoying being able to feel that.
nypinta
110. nypinta
It hadn't occured to me during that scene that Bo could be seen as wishing she was male or having penis envy, but the way it was depicted could be argued as being sexist since Bo was Dyson where as the image of Dyson with Flora, Lauren wasn't Flora. So it is interesting to me that the greatest furor was over an actress who plays a lesbian playing a different character who was not doing a love scene with a man, but no one was too upset about a woman having a fantasy love scene as if she were a man. Especially considering that the actress that most people are upset on the behalf of had gone on record as saying this particular episode was her favorite. I'm not saying people can't be upset or don't have a valid reason to be offended. But when you break it down it seems people are more upset about a thing that didn't happen the way they think, or was saying what they think it was saying. But there is a moment that is completely an old trotted out trope that women are envious of men in certain ways. (I'm more envious of their statistically higher paychecks, having their opinions recieve greater consideration usually, the way they are assumed to be the leaders and bosses, etc... but whatev.)
nypinta
111. nypinta
My comment got cut off.

Anyhow.. it's odd that people are upset about one image while ignoring the implications in another. And that begs the question as to why the sensativity to one and not the other? How much is actual offense, how much is wanting to be offended, how much is simply because it was Dyson in the imagery at all and since he is such a focus of a lot of hate it became a lightening rod for anger?

BTW, if Dyson didn't recall the events with Flora and the shoes, then why did he feel guilty for it all? Or has he thought all this time that he actually did kill all those people because The Wanderer took what really happened out of his mind? And when. Because Dyson had enough presence of mind to hide the shoe in a boxing belt (that could have been something from the 20s, 30s, 40s...) or he hid it very recently but The Wanderer took all memories just after he took Bo. Because Trick seemed upset last season about who her father could have been, but this season he's clueless. And are we ever going to find out just why the Una Mens are in town now? How they work? Because I don't think they are around all the time. I think they are in a sort of limbo until something happens and they are 'called forth' to set things right again. Otherwise, them waiting so long to take out Dyson doesn't make sense.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
112. Kiersten
Dyson didn't forget the events with Flora and the shoes, he forgot what Trick had said about The Wanderer wanting the shoes. Bo specificallly asked why he and Trick didn't tell her about that connection, as I recall. That's the part that was taken from his memory until Bo's memory walk revived it all. Dyson can't remember swearing fealty to Trick and not remember the events that changed his life course and spurred him to sweart that fealty in the first place.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
113. Kiersten
Based on the minisodes that aired pre-S4, the Una Mens show up to set things right when the Fae get out of control. Whether they're called forth or arrive under their own impetus is unclear.

It seems that at the end of this episode, Trick was planning to come to Tdot the New World and establish Faeville. Things had been relatively status quo for a while until Bo arrived on the scene and shook everything up. Then The Wanderer sent Tamsin and Acacia and started dicking around with everyone and the Una Mens suddenly took notice that here was Trick and Dyson and hey, wasn't he the last one to have the Hell Shoes? Is that why He Who Wanders has decided to show up again? And, hang on, who is this succubus and why has she been allowed to remain unaligned? They don't necessarily know that The Wanderer is also Bo's father.

It seems that this bunch have their own agenda outside of their usual Come to Faesus role - finding the Hell Shoes - and it's possible that The Wanderer's interference in things in S3 spurred the Una Mens to show up and see if the shoes were back in play. That they appear to be using their power and authority for a private agenda could very well be their own undoing. Which begs the question, if the Una Mens are one of the Fae's highest authority, to whom do they answer? Who watches the creepy watchers?

I don't think Trick is clueless about the identity of Bo's father, I think he's not sharing and playing dumb, that or The Wanderer dicked with his memory too, which would track if be something that happened "off screen". Although if he *is* clueless, that could just as easily be more convenient memory loss of past plot moments on behalf of the writers. Who's to know at this point?
nypinta
114. nypinta
OK. That makes more sense. That Dyson recalled Flora, the shoes, the man who ordered it all done in order to get the shoes, but just not the part where the shoes are supposed to belong to "the one who wanders". Because then it wouldn't be a plot hole that Dyson knew about the shoes to hide them if he supposedly didn't recall them. It just hit me as I was typing that Dyson said he hadn't recalled the connection and I was like, "then how did you know to hide the shoes?" but regardless of who is the legendary owner doesn't change what they did.

As for Trick, last season he was looking at that box with the fire breathing thing and seemed visibly upset that the image could represent who Bo's father was. Yet this season he's asking Mae Ling for any information on who The Wanderer is as if he himself had never heard of him. So it seems to me that in between last season and this that connnection was broke in Trick's mind as well. And it just seems weird that she finally calls out Trick right after Dyson tells her he didn't recall the connection and they've all had their memories altered, so it stands to reason Trick would have had his played with as well. It's just funny her frustration of how Trick keeps things to himself strikes at the one time he might not be doing it on purpose. (He still deserves to be called out though.)
Carmen Pinzon
115. bungluna
Now that inconsistencies are mentioned, why did ScarFae kill Flora with a bullet but let Dyson get away alive? He could have shot Dyson before Friar Trick got in the action.
Nusi Dekker
116. NusiD
I re-watched the episode and I really think the triangle is over. Bo essentially told Lauren that she was back with Dyson. DL only reacted with an "Oh." She then just went on and prepared Bo for the memory walk. DL has moved on from having Bo as a lover but is staying a loyal friend because she still loves Bo. And, without the sunshine gang, she would be completely alone in the world and wouldn't last long. Somewhere, DL has developed a healthy respect and fondness for the wolf-man, and knows in her heart that he is the one for Bo.

At the end, when they were all eating hot dogs at the Dal, I could see that Dyson and Bo were very much together but were not rubbing it in DL's face. Dyson mentions the mark on Bo's chest, and DL goes, "What mark on her chest?" Definitely something that Bo got on the death train and something only Dyson saw, meaning that Bo has to be naked for the mark to be seen. I wonder when we get to see it?

Methinks that EA attempted to give the doccubus crowd a last hurrah with the Bo/Dyson - Flora/Lauren sex scene. The ones who can't take the growth of the relationship to one that is non-sexual but just as loving will leave after perhaps one last rant on the LG boards, but they will be gone going forward. Myself, I liked the way it was handled, because I like Lauren and very glad that she is now a more integral part of the group with no ex-lover ickyness.
Nusi Dekker
117. NusiD
Oh, and re-watching Bo as Dyson watching herself in the mirror - Bo/Dyson was doing a lot of up-and-down pumping while Dyson in the mirror wasn't. The image in the mirror was being far more gentle in the lovemaking than Bo/Dyson. It wasn't a very well coordinated scene. :p
nypinta
118. nypinta
@bungluna I thought it was because he needed Dyson to be the patsy for killing all those people and he didn't care if Dyson lived or died, but knew he had to kill Flora in order to get the shoes off he feet. So he shoots her to get the shoes but doesn't give crap if Dyson lives and assumed that Dyson was just going to run off anyhow. But before he can come to the conclusion he should have shot Dyson too, he got Tricke'd in the head.
Carmen Pinzon
120. bungluna
@nypinta- But if ScarFae was working for the Una Mens, why would he care? It's not like anybody else is goingt to come looking or 'em and they don't seem to care about humans.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
121. Kiersten
@NusiD - we did see the mark when Dyson and Bo first saw it when they were in front of the mirror in her bedroom right before the Una Mens came for Dyson. But yes, it seemed a deliberate choice to show that DL did not know of Bo's mark (and she did not explain it when Dyson mentioned it) and Dyson did.

But I don't think the triangle is over especially since everyone has been at pains to say the triangle will always be a part of Lost Girl> Whether that was pre-empting an anticipated outcry over the slow, drawn out demise of Bo and Doctor Lauren's relationship, much like they kept mentioning "threesome" in the interviews and con panels and then had this episode as payoff, or if it's because they intend to have DL and Bo reunited by the end of the season, I don't know. I would love to have the doccubus relationship maintain it's natural and organic end. Already the constant mainpulation to keep putting them in the same space to draw out their connection just to provided some extra make out scenes has long crossed over into boring drudgery and is wasting show time that can be better spent on, say, The Wanderer. But I sincerely doubt that will every happen.
nypinta
122. nypinta
The one that Dyson mentioned? Yes, I belive that is what he is referring too. But Lauren never saw it because they were only together for an extremely short moment and I don't think Bo took any of her cloths off.

That's my point. ScarFae didn't care. He only needed Flora to be dead to get the shoes. It wasn't a plan to kill anyone, but she was a necessary death to achieve his goal. He did what he needed and nothing more. Plus, I don't think guns were as reliable back then or had multiple bullets loaded at one time... So he might not have had another shot even if he wanted to shoot Dyson.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
123. Kiersten
Yes, ScarFace had to shoot Flora to get the shoes off her feet. He expected Dyson to turn tail and run and then would've blamed him for Flora's death and all would assume Dyson had the shoes (which turned out to be true). Instead, Dyson took the shoes, gave one to Angel to hide and carried off the other to the New World where he eventually hid it in his championship belt.

@bungluna Yes, the glowing hand print is The Wanderer's mark on Bo. The Una Mens needed someone to take the fall for the shoes because they're supposed to be neutral and unemotional and can't be seen to be pursing power that would make them the most powerful of Fae (as opposed to their current position as "one" of the most powerful of the Elder Fae). That's why they sent ScarFace to manipulate Dyson and Flora in the first place. It was only when Bo walked through his memory and then recognized the Executioner's voice that they both learned of the entire plot. Dyson didn't expect ScarFace to be revealed under that mask, which is why he, for the first time since being taken, responded violently as everything was revealed.
Carmen Pinzon
124. bungluna
So now the plot thickens and we have the Una Mens involved with the Wanderer in some plot requiring the Hell Espadrilles. We are getting awfully close to the end of the season. I fear we will, again, have all the connect-the-dots stuff crammed in the last two episode.
nypinta
126. nypinta
Maybe, maybe not. Next episode brings back Tamsin but it does seem it's going to be a bit of a stand alone, but then the episode after that is called "Destiny's Child" and the synopsis (although pretty vague) is that Bo fights to get some answers and Kenzi decids to find out what Trick has been hiding. But then in E10 Kenzi gets the gang involved in some corporation an they go undercover, which sounds stand alone too. Then there's just three episodes left. Maybe everything happens in the final three? But from what it sounds like I don't think the Una Mens are in the next few episodes. So either they retreat because HSG revealed their hypocrisy or they off regrouping to come back in some showdown later in the season...? But we only have E8-13 to get to the other two big bads, The Wanderer being one. I wonder if the episode with the "mystery corporation" will have something to do with Lauren's brother and will be the third big bad. Because we still have no idea what Lauren is up to. Unless they plan on letting that go into a 5th season.
Susan White
127. whiskeywhite
You folks are killing me with all of your enticing comments! I can't wait to see this episode. While I totally, totally love all the analyzing, I do agree that the show is enjoyable if you just sit back and go with the flow.

Have sold a 14-year old niece on the show here in Trinidad. Someone else had introduced her to it, but I *may* have been carrying the Season 1 DVDs in my luggage. Don't leave home without it. ;-)
Mary Beth House
128. UberFaenatic
I agree with you all. I'm missing out on some of the story stuff because the Triangle is harshing my mellow.

I'll try to rewatch and ignore Triangle-ly stuff and focus on the rest.
Mary Beth House
131. UberFaenatic
Season 4 Triangle-free Thoughts/Questions:

Episode 1:

Questions:

Why/how did Aife remember having Bo? Did Rainer want Aife to have the memory?
Was Bo taken to the train/did she stay there the whole time she was gone?
Where was Tamsin taken and how many times did she die when she was gone? (We can assume she died at least one time during her absence given how she went from little kid to Rachel sized in under 2 weeks and she was gone for a month at least)
Why did Dyson go to the crash site every day at the same time? (personal supposition: to show that Tamsin was not there for the entire time after the crash)
Why is there no physical evidence of Bo's existence at the crack shack? Mail coming in to Bo's attention or anything?
Kenzi/Dyson breaking the curse with the compass wakes Bo up. But we now know that Bo was aware during her month plus missing. When she awakens, she's anxious to get out of there. Why didn't she attempt escape the first time or if she did, what stopped her?

Thoughts:

Just because it's been a month that Dyson has been going to the crash site, that doesn't mean it's been a month since Bo/Tamsin disappeared.
We see the Una Mens seed and Trick says it's a symbol of the near omniscient Una Mens
Mary Beth House
132. UberFaenatic
Episode 2:

Trick said Bo must never find out about his run in with Aife. WHY? She's a big girl and in fact she'll resent it if she finds out he's hiding this from her.
What do those masks do?
"Beautiful eyes. Both brown and blue. You're the one." That's what the maid said to Bo. What does it mean?

Thoughts:

Interesting that TamTam found the train ticket given her connection with The Wanderer storyline. She also asked if Kenzi thought Bo was stuck in the card, which was a question a lot of fans had.
Rewatching the scene with Dyson/Hale/Eddie did not make it better. The whole exchange is hamfisted and Hale would not have left an active investigation to run off to talk to Kenzi. It could have waited til later. lol As was that scene with Dyson talking about Bo and Lauren but I'm not talking Triangle here in this rewatch...so moving on. ;)
Still wish Lauren had seen a tattoo or brand or something to indicate choking guy was fae before she went stabby on him
Valkyries' memories come back piecemeal and scattered and they also sometimes prevent themselves from remembering certain events or details because they're too painful.
Mary Beth House
133. UberFaenatic
Episode 3:

Questions:

"Damned souls are trapped and they're trying to get out." Damned by whom? Did one of them hitch a ride with Bo? Was Tamsin one of them before the memory spell was broken?
If the Wanderer can hear what's going on on the train, why didn't he prevent Bo from leaving?
"Wait. You?" Bo says this to the Jumbi when she first sees her. But where does she recognize her from?


Thoughts:

"One day you just wake up and you're a mother." That's what Evony said to Massimo...and I think is a tease that she is his mother.
Dyson noticed that Bo was especially brutal against Cleo...perhaps teasing of the darkness within her.
Annie Moore
134. drusilla_doll
Episode 1:

Rainer didn't just extract people's selective memories, he seems to have been able to reconstruct/manipulate perceptions on a large scale.

Episode 2:

It was a nice touch to have the card go up in flames. I can't remember if it was as a result of young Tamsin touching it or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers just didn't want to write a Bo/Aife reunion. To have her know her mother had gone insane again, attacked Trick and was down in the basement would demand Bo act upon the information and go to see her. It wasn't part of the narrative they wanted to concentrate on. It's might also be due to the actress being part of the Orphan Black cast and unavailable for too many scenes. Could easily have been a scheduling issue. The writers might have planned a reunion later in the season, but as I recall, there was speculation via twitter/forums she was busy shooting the next season of OB.

I too wish there'd been more indication that the choking man was a fae. It was a very odd scene. Perhaps they edited out something useful there for time?
Mary Beth House
135. UberFaenatic
@Drusilla_doll... I don't think the card went into flames because Tamsin touched it per se...but because a non-elemental was holding it. It's one thing to dust it off the floor and drop it in a box...but a non-elemental was holding it to examine it and that make it burst into flames, or so I could tell. But why was it combustible in the first place? Because Bo is on another plane?

Episode 4:

Questions:

Who took Lauren? Was it really the Morrigan or was it Trick? (That was Rick Howland's voice, I believe)
Why is valkyrie hair valuable? (Remember in Fae-ge Against the Machine, the guy in Brazenwood wanted a sample)
Why wasn't Bo affected by Tamsin's powers? Is it because she wasn't targeted or is it because she's special?
Have we ever seen Bo full body glow before like she did with the Harbinger of Death?
What's significant about this being Tamsin's last life?
How long are valkyrie life cycles?
Was Massimo wearing the twig of zamora when he took a lava bath?
How durable is valkyrie hair? Could it and Massimo possibly have survived?

Thoughts:

"Something is different about you."
Bo sets off malicious fae detector.
Bo smiles after Massimo "kills himself".

All three suggest that Bo has something in her making her darker at times.
Mary Beth House
136. UberFaenatic
Episode 5:

Questions:

"Funny, you'd think I'd remember betraying everything that I've ever stood for." Bo's blood reads as dark. But why did she choose to align? It would have to be to save someone's life or a bunch of someone's lives or prevent suffering because being aligned is a deliberate choice and only something catastrophic would force Bo's hand.
When did Evony become the Morrigan again and how did she get it back? (She said a couple episodes ago that she was about to stop being miss nice fae)
"Just give me something...anything on this Wanderer." Trick doesn't seem to know who the Wanderer is.
The Una Mens sense something is up with Trick but have no idea he's the Blood King. But how can they not since they said that he betrayed them?
Fae rebels wanted to overturn the blood laws because the Blood King became corrupt but by who's reckoning?
"Vex worked with the Wanderer to turn me dark." Bo said that to Lauren (she was wrong btw). But why would Lauren know who the Wanderer is?
Who is Pietra killing?
Does the Morrigan know that Tamsin is reborn? Late in the ep she calls Tamsin, "our blooming little warrior princess" which seems to suggest she does.
Why did Bo take Vex's hand?
Why is Lauren with the dark?
Is Trick hiding something about Rainer or the King's book of records?
What happened to the sixth seed?
Who is Rainer/what did the Una Mens see in the Kings book of records?

Thoughts:

The Una Mens woman told Bo to let Kenzi and Lauren know they would be after them soon so apparently they're just on a list. It's not that they hadn't found them...only that they weren't the priority.
The Una Mens exist as the compromise with the fae rebels. The Blood King would cede his power to them then become one of them. With his power as a blood sage, the Una Mens would be able to enforce the laws without challenge.
THE UNA MENS STILL WANT THE BLOOD KING TO JOIN THEM.
Vex believes the Wanderer is a boogeyman/fictional character.
Lauren's speech to Bo when she rejects her again confuses me.
Carmen Pinzon
137. bungluna
When you break it down like that, it does become even more confusing. I have to say, though, we've been given lots of good stuff to obse, er speculate upon.
nypinta
138. nypinta
I hope it also means that a lot of questions have been left unanswered because they plan on answering them at some point. Like why did Pietra get killed? When she said they had the wrong scavenger, was she telling the truth? Will Bo having Vex's hand mean he'll get it back eventually? Is Massimo really dead? All of those answers could play into an endgame that we haven't guessed at yet.

Some questions I think they'll ignore, like how Evony became Morrigan again. I think she's Morrigan simply because she wants to be. Like Lauren said, "think Dark to be Dark", which sounds a lot like the Dark just do things because they want. And Evony wants to be Morrigan. Seems no one wants to argue with her about that. Her strange line about waking up and suddenly being a mother was out of the blue. Would be nice if it actually means something, but it might just be ignored as another weird thing Evony says.

I would like it if someone knew about The Wanderer and said just how scary or impressive he really was, even if it isn't to one of the members of the Team. Just so we in the audience know what Bo is up against.

I think Bo was awake on the train and knew who she was and was plotting to leave when she had the chance. I don't think she knew about the others though. I think like she was taken from their memory, they were taken from hers. And Bo without Kenzi, Dyson, Lauren, Trick, and Hale might have been the type of person that would sign Dark even while working against someone like The Wanderer. Bo, before meeting all of them, was already pretty contrary and hated rules and being manipulated. I think she'd recognize that was what was happening to her and fight against it, but maybe not have the same moral lines as Bo does with her friends. Maybe. Seeing more of what actually happened to her would be nice, but I can't see how they'd do that in an episode other than her just talking to Kenzi, Dyson, or Trick about what happened. Unless she had a fae to fight against while still staying on the train until we see her depart, it'd be a boring episode....
Nusi Dekker
139. NusiD
That's a hell of a lot of unanswered questions, when you put them all down like that. Makes it seem like there wasn't much episodic progression at all! I hope they don't squish everything in the last episode, because that will probably be another cliffhanger.
nypinta
140. nypinta
There might be a lot of unanswered questions, but that doesn't mean that all of them need answering to tell Bo's story. Like the stuff with Evony or Massimo. If he isn't part of whatever happens this season, whether or not he had the Twig of Zamora doesn't matter. Same with why Dyson went at the same time. He might have gone at the same time just because he's a creature of habit and wanted to make sure he rememered to go every day. Or he wasn't going at the same time it was just Kenzi saying, "time to go to the crash site" as a turn of phrase, not an indication of hour of the day. Pietra's execution might be relevant. Or she was just so we saw a sympathetic face being killed right in front of Dyson so we'd understand how much danger he was in. So if they never answer why she was executed, it was just for the second reason. We recognized her and felt bad when she was killed while Dyson was made to watch, a kind of torture for him as well as the audience.

I'm mostly concerned with what happened on the train, why did she sign Dark, what is Lauren up to, what happened to the seed, where is Aife, how scary is The Wanderer. The seed, Aife, and what Trick did to be deemed corrupted can all be answered at once, with one story, I think. Might be what Kenzi goes to find two episodes from now. What Lauren is up to might be pushed off till next season. The train and the Wanderer can be done in two episodes, if they don't make a mess of it like they did S3. It wasn't that Taft and all of that was all done in two episodes, it was that it was done poorly. On Buffy, almost every season had the big finale in the last few episodes and almost all of them were fantastic and satisfying.
Carmen Pinzon
141. bungluna
I can wait for some answers for next season, if there is going to be one, but some I would like to have resolved now.

1. How did Bo end up Dark?
2. Who's the Wanderer and is he Bo's father?
3. Some resolution to the Una Mens, seed, Trick situation?
4. Vex and Tamsin and their place of the Gang 4ever or what?
nypinta
142. nypinta
Yes, Vex! I worry about Tamsin. I really do. But they should both be in the gang. Seems Vex is whether he likes it or not. ;)
Mary Beth House
144. UberFaenatic
Well the Morrigan has placed Vex specifically in Bo's care so he's with the gang and that's pretty much that. lol At least until the Una Mens leave town. That's the inference I got.

As for how bad is the Wanderer? Well, last season, Acacia was scared of him, as was Tamsin, who told Bo that her refusing his orders had, "cursed them both" and that Bo had "no idea."

Aife described him as being powerful and vindictive enough to kill everyone, revive them and kill them again.

The Kitsune ginger twerps who "operated" on Tamsin said he was Voldemort bad.

This season, we know he forced Bo to align with the dark, and we know that Bo would never, EVER do that unless something dire was going to happen to other people, meaning lives were threatened if she didn't.

Vex referred to him as the boogey man used to scare young kids into doing the right thing else face dire circumstances. Kind of like the fae baba yaga.

Add to that, the signs we've gotten from Bo that she's been darkened...I'd say directly at Rainer's hand as he's laid his mark on her, and I think we have a picture of a very manipulative, very powerful and very evil individual who will do whatever he wants to get his way.

The fact that he forced Bo to go dark suggests he wanted her to return to this plane...but he was angry that she left. So from that I gleen that he was mad that she left early...outside his timetable and his will. Maybe she wasn't "ready".
Mary Beth House
145. UberFaenatic
Episode 6:

Questions:

Where/how did Bo meet Ianka? We know it was while Bo was in the Wanderer's possession...but was it on the train or elsewhere? Ianka tells her, "You came to see me after I sang for you." That sounds like they weren't on the train.
What other clues did Wandering Bo leave for her future self?
Why is Evony wooing Lauren? She's using the soft sell rather than threatening pain or anything else, which is a decidedly a gentler touch than Evony's style. Maybe she wants something specific from her as opposed to generally wanting her on team dark?
What does the crown in Bo's memory mean? And why was she angered by it?
The death song kills Marcus and Ianka, hurts Kenzi and Hale. Was Bo affected? If not, why not? We see her close her eyes briefly, but I don't see any evidence she was affected by it.
"No please. I can't do this." Wanderer Bo says this on the train when she first sees the handprint. Can't do what?
If Bo replays Ianka's recording, will she remember other things?
Evony is extremely manipulative but did any one else sense that she felt a genuine connection with Lauren?
What is Lauren going to use the sample from the fake lips for?
"To..it beginning". What was Lauren toasting to when she was by herself? She was looking off at the door when it happened and it's after she peeled the fake lips off for the sample so Evony is most certainly a part of "it".
What is Bo feeling when she crumples to the floor? We haven't seen her react to the handprint before. Is having the memory of it on the train sparking her to feel it and see it now?
Why did the Una Mens go after Dyson NOW? And why didn't they take Bo in too since Bo and Dyson were breaking the blood laws in her home?

Thoughts:

"And I wonder...can you really know yourself without memory? I mean, can you really know what you want?" I think Bo won't know what she wants out of any part of her life until her memories are restored so she's going through the motions and acting out her anger and frustrations until she fixes what's broken.
Trick still has the seed box at the beginning of the ep. He has to know the seed is missing though, right? He looks distressed as he hides it away.
Bo seems exceptionally angry through large chunks of this episode. She reacts and pushes back using sex and she selfishly disregards the position she puts both Dyson and Trick in to prove she can't be told what to do or made to do something against her will. Even with Ianka, her first response was to threaten her, rather than persuade. So I think we see Rainer's mark on her not only physically, but emotionally and psychologically as well.
"Neither regret the past nor fear the future." Bo doesn't recognize this but apparently Ianka thinks she should.
I hate that Hale lied to Kenzi about being hurt. I fear it's a precursor to us losing him this season. Why couldn't they have had like 10 seconds of happiness? Sigh.
I'm glad Bo recognized that she is not herself...that she's full of rage and fears she'll become obsessed with it. It was a good thing that Dyson called her out on it because it's not fair to him for her to anger bang her frustration away.
Mary Beth House
146. UberFaenatic
Random thought about Trick and Aife.

In Let the Dark Times Roll, Trick said he turned in his daughter and it sounded like he was saying he turned her in to the Una Mens. (He says this near the end of the episode where he's talking to Arabella and reminding her of how she turned in her own family for minor discretions once she became Una Mens).

If so, how did Aife survive the Una Mens and how did she end up a prisoner of the Dark King as mentioned in season 1?

Also that was a 1000 years ago. How did she get away from the Dark King and is that the Wanderer/Rainer or did Aife "escape" the Dark King only to end up in the clutches of Rainer?

Or... did Aife agree to a child for the Dark King/Wanderer/Rainer as a condition of her release? If so, that means she was held prisoner for 1000 years.
Mary Beth House
147. UberFaenatic
Episode 7:

Upon rewatching and removing my Triangle issues ;) I actually really enjoyed this episode. There was A LOT here.

Questions:

Why was Pietra killed?
Cassie's dark fae. How did Trick pull strings to get her there as acting Ash?
"The Helskor. The ancient hel shoes sought after by the most powerful fae, including the one who wanders." Does this mean Trick knew who the Wanderer was at one time or just the reputation as a powerful fae?
Who is the memory glitch guy with the red jacket?
Flora was a woodland fae and they have the power to seduce? Is that what she said?
"I have been denied." That suggests that the shoes are sentient in some way or can communicate their will on the wearer.
"You're brave. But something else. Something new." What new thing did Cassie sense in Bo?
Lauren took a huge risk in entering Dyson/Bo's minds because she is not fae. She also said she cut the string. I wonder if that has a double meaning here?

The Helskor can only be worn by the worthy hero. Bo assumes it's her but what if it's not? She is dark now after all.
You know what would be neat is if they pulled a reverse Garuda. Back in Season 2, Bo was the hero but Dyson believed it was to be him because of what the wolf spirit told him. Well, what if Dyson is the hero to wear the shoes and Bo just thinks she is?
The Una Mens are hypocritical. They broke fae law to uphold fae law and then blame someone else, namely Dyson, when they know he's innocent? Why?
I love that Trick revealed himself as the Blood King to Dyson. It proved he trusted him right from the start. "You're a hero, Dyson. It is written. It is your destiny." Did Trick use his blood to make this so?
Where was present day Trick in this episode?
Who is this angel (shifter)/Kenzi and where is she?


Thoughts:

The red string of fate isn't as awful as I first thought. It isn't Triangle-ly at all...it just means that Bo was destined to meet Dyson and Lauren. Also, as Bo said, destiny is one thing but the hard thing is that it takes work to stay together. Lots of meaning there. ;)
"I would do the same for you." Also not Triangle-ly. I think Bo would do the same for anyone she cares about.
"It is said that they can lead to the end of days." I think I need to learn more about these shoes.
I love that Dyson was the one who gave Trick his nickname.
I just noticed that Scarface was talking to the prince/Vex the first time we see him.
When Dyson stayed after Flora was killed and took a stand against Crater (Scarface), he proved Trick right when he said he could be good.
I know Trick was testing Dyson, but it's surprising he didn't want the Helskor, if only to hide them away in a vault for safe keeping.

__________________

Which takes us to tonight's episode, which many are suggesting is a "filler". I hope it's not and I even find that doubtful because every episode has had something that moved the storyline forward...especially this last one.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
149. Kiersten
From SpoilerTV:

Episode 4.09 - Destiny's Child Bo resolves to go to hell and back to get the answers she’s been searching for, with or without her friends' support. Meanwhile, Kenzi's determined to uncover what Trick's hiding.

Episode 4.10 - Waves With the gang still reeling from Bo's shocking announcement, Kenzi signs them up for an undercover mission at a mysterious corporation. Meanwhile, Bo retraces the steps that may lead to her destiny.
nypinta
150. Stacymd2
@kiersten: thanks for the spoilers. 410 sounds good. When are the writers going to squeeze in Kenzi's backstory, Lauren's medical shenanigans and her brother plus conclude the Bo is Dark/Una Mens/Wanderer overal plot?

@UberFaenatic: You bring up a lot of great questions. I don't think Lost Girl will answer most of them this season.

I am most worried about Hale, Tamsin, Dyson and Lauren. Many characters have talked up how "bad" the Wanderer and Una Mens are. We have seen the Una Mens kill, torture and lie thus far, but nothing from Rainer. TPTB will have to do something big to prove he is really a "big bad". Most likely they will kill off a character. Advils have already been dropped for Tamsin (last life cycle), Hale (blood from ears), and all of the MotW plots have revolved around lovers dying. I can only guess that one of Bo's lovers will die either by her hand or by Rainer.
Annie Moore
151. drusilla_doll
Since the Helskor shoes were meant to allow people to go to Valhalla in Norse legend, I wonder if Bo is determined to get the 2nd shoe and wear them for that purpose? Perhaps it opens a gateway to the realm of the dead, which could sorta hasten the 'End of Days'? If one has the ability to travel back and forth between the planes at will, it seriously could unsettle the balance of things. Perhaps that's why we rarely see the Wanderer in this plane. Perhaps he's been banished or tethered to the other realm and can only come here at great cost - hence the need for the Wanderer to sleep (Odinsleep in Marvel comics was when the god slumbered to regain his power) - didn't the maid tell Bo not to wake him on the train? I can't remember.
nypinta
152. Stacymd2
I hope Bo (or anyone in our happy sunshine gang) is not the "true hero". The "chosen one" idea is a cliche in SciFi and fantasy now. Every supernatural show seems to have one. A more interesting storyline would be if Bo turns out not to be the true hero and the gang has to find her/him in order to stop Rainer from enslaving all Fae.

Or, that no one is the true hero. It is just an idea to unite the Fae again.

The best "chosen one" storyline that I've seen on TV recently was on Being Human (UK) season 4, where Annie kills "chosen one" baby Eve in order to save the world. It flipped the "chosen one" cliche.
nypinta
153. Darthfaeder
@Stacymd2 we know that there will be a funeral in episode 11. My guess and I think alot of people feel that it might be Hale. I personally hope not but KC Collins has been doing lots of work apart from LG, so maybe he has decided that season 4 is his last season? Jay Firestone was talking to Rachel Skarsten, and made the remark to her that he wanted play around with more of Tamsin's backstory. He said that at the London Con after they had already wrapped up filming season 4, so I am certain that Tamsin will be back for season 5. It looks like your theory will be actually happen during episode 11. Now whether it is the Una Mens, Rainer, or some other evil Fae I don't know?
nypinta
154. Darthfaeder
@Uberfae to answer your question from post # 146 Trick turned in Aifa because she led a band of light fae rebels against the dark fae. A very precarious peace was decided between the light and the dark, but Aifa couldn't let her hate for the dark fae go. She was originally a light fae but only became dark after her father and other light fae betrayed her by handing her over to the dark fae to be punished for leading a rebellion against them. I don't know who the dark king was that tortured her but she obviously didn't get pregnant with Bo till hundreds of years later long after her time of inprisonment and torture.
nypinta
155. nypinta
I think Aife was turned over to the Dark as per the new laws Trick wrote. She wasn't turned over to the Una Mens.
The memory glitch guy in Dyson's memory was the coach from his gym. That was Dyson sending Bo a message about where the shoe was because he could feel her in his memory and knew what she was seeing.
I think it'd be hilarious if the shoes weren't meant for Bo but were meant for someone else. Maybe even Kenzi! Hahahaha. But no. They'll be for Bo. Or for Bo to wear into Hell and maybe the Wanderer wants them for himself so he's set this all up so she'll bring them to him. I suspect that the package that Dyson and Lauren disagree over in the next episode is going to be the other show. Angel is nto going to make an appearance but she just mails the shoe to Bo because she knows Dyson wants her too. That way in 4.10 Bo has what she needs to take a walk into Hell but I'm sure no one wants her to go. Especially Dyson who saw first hand what they did to someone else who wasn't meant to wear them. And yes they have had a lot of characters say how scary The Wanderer is, but no one has said anything that he has specifially done. Why is he scary? Aife implies he was the power to kill people and bring them back, but everyone else just talks about how powerful he is without specifics. But it seems that he can't move around freely in this realm or he just would already. And maybe the Dark Fae did kill Aife like he was supposed to when she was turned over but that put her on the train as a damned soul (it probably wasn't a train then...) and The Wanderer chose her for whatever he has planned, because I am sure Bo was a wanted child. At some point though how did Luann Lydecker get involved...? Did Aife escape with Bo and find Luann who then took Bo away from Aife? Or did she help Aife escape after helping her give birth to Bo? That's a story I want told too.

And when I ask whether or not Vex is on the team, I mean does Vex want t be on the team. He's with the Dark only to avoid being killed by pretty much everyone. But now he's found a group of people that have actually come to his defense and refused to hand him over to those that would kill him. Probably for the first time in his life, after his own family was killed. Yet so far he's never really been shown to put himself on the line for any of them. He does what he needs to get out of whatever situation he is in, but he's never actively done anything to save any of them. Dyson has. Lauren has. Hale, even Trick. I'd like to see Vex make the choice that doesn't benefit him in order to help any one of them. Kenzi is the natural choice. But I'd also love it if he did something to protect somone we least expect him too. Like Dyson or Lauren.
Annie Moore
156. drusilla_doll
I saw this on twitter (@fyeahlostgirl):

Ep. 4x11 - End of a line. Synopsis: Bo narrowly escapes a vengeful Fae attack, a visit surprises Kenzi, Bo questions feelings for someone she loves.

Thoughts? I'm kinda hoping it's not a triangle thing and instead is about Bo questioning Trick's motives and secrets. That confrontation has been due for a while. If Trick as some serious stuff to come clean about and atone for, I suspect he will do something drastic to prove he still cares for her and probably end up dying in the process.
nypinta
157. Georgiana2494
@nypinta - If I remember correctly Luann Lydecker was the midwife at Bo's birth.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
158. Kiersten
Don't forget that during her Yawning in Ceremony, Bo saw her own infant memory of an obviously mad crazy Aoife killing the nurse (who was *not* Luanne) to steal BabyBo from her father. Bo also saw her father cherishing her before turning her over to the nurse. So he did want and love her at least then. And later in the same episode, when Bo gave into her dark power in order to bring Dyson back from the dead, much like Aoife later told Bo her father would do to Taft were he there, she talks about ruling and subjugating the Fae as their Queen in her Dark Galadrial moment.

I think she was awake during her time away and that not all of it was necesarily spent on the Death Train though all of it was spent with or around The Wanderer. I don't think she forgot who she was or who she'd left behind during that time, which is why Bo was able to tell the opera singer how to find her at The Dal in the "real" realm/plane. The crown was given to Bo by The Wanderer with her true name engraved on it because he wants her to rule by his side and she is resisting. His mark on her was part of his attempts to convince her to give into her power and rule. When Bo continued to resist the crown and all it stands for, The Wanderer took her with him into the Great Sleep or whatever it is but then, when Dyson, Kenzi, and the rest got their memories back, it triggered Bo awake ahead of schedule. The resulting disorientation created a momentary memory loss of the people she loved, one that came back pretty quickly as she picked the lock. The rest of her memories of what happened during her time with The Wanderer were wiped by him once it became clear she'd managed to escape his plane. He clearly uses the memory wipe to control how people remember him, perhaps because his power, like BabaYaga's, is confined to his own realm/plane and thus he has to manipulate people's memories to protect his one vulnerability. Maybe that's why he needs the shoes: to cross over and take control of all Fae for good, which would also explain why the Una Mens who currently hold the record in scaring the crap outta the Fae world, want to get to those shoes first.
Annie Moore
160. drusilla_doll
I like your spec, Kiersten, and it fits with the Una Mens looking fearful/angry (which is interesting when they are supposed to be devoid of emotion) when consulting the special book to learn who Rainer was and UMtilda saying 'Never again!'

So I think it tracks that Rainer/The Wanderer desires his daughter to aid him in gaining dominion over not just his own plane of existence or place of exile but also the human/Fae world as well.

I'm wondering if The Wanderer is to the Fae what the Titans were to the Greek Olympian gods.
Nusi Dekker
161. NusiD
@drusilla_doll Well, Vex used the Scimitar of Kronos to cut off his hand. Kronos was a titan and the father of Zeus. So maybe you have something there.
Mary Beth House
162. UberFaenatic
I've been thinking about that scene from Ceremony.

Bo has a memory of being an infant but how do we know that it wasn't influenced by her father? What if he wanted her to believe that he wanted her for the right reasons and that Aife took her for the wrong reasons? It could be that Aife took her away because she knew Bo had a very special purpose and she wanted to protect her from it.

She has in the interim gone nuts...but it could be that her intentions at that point were to get Bo away from a dangerous and manipulative influence.

Also...how was Daddy there if he's stuck on another plane? I think he used a fake memory to egg Bo on to make her pliable to his will.
Carmen Pinzon
163. bungluna
I love y'all! I just wish YOU were the writers of the show. So many great posibilities.
Nadine Robb
164. cmm
Ok. Love, love, loveeeee this episode! Favourite fae of the day Choga lol! For once I have nothing negative to say. I will even mention that doctors name, Lauren. I must say I really enjoyed the banter between her, Dyson and Vex. I liked that this episode forced them to discuss their issues with Bo and come to a decision. Also liked that Bo was forced to face her fears.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
165. Kiersten
I am so glad I wasnt doing a drinking game for meta moments because that ep was chock full of them especially with Dyson and Doctor Lauren and Vex scenes, which were hilarious. Great ep. Tons of fun. Lots of fan service that, for once, didn't even set me off.
Can't wait to see it again properly because the link I had sux ballz majorly.
Annie Moore
166. drusilla_doll
Some other viewers are unhappy with developments, but I think it sounds like a hoot. Very meta in a fun way.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
167. Kiersten
People are always unhappy when they dont get absolutely everything they want. We've basically had E1 fanwank Kyson, E3 fanwank Team Badass, E5 fanwank doccubus and now E7 fanwank Vaulkubus. All major 'ships have sailed through at least one episode. The downside is that the show has wasted time that couldve been spent telling the larger story better in order to give these "gifts" to the fans. But it's done now and hopefully moving forward these last five eps will be more story focused and less "who can we try to please today?"

I thought this was a great, fun, and at times hilarious episode. I still hate the car wash thing, but it's there and we have to live with it. At least she had a reason for washing it and they all had a reason for being at the station. Weird that Hale was in a suit when everyone else was all Casual Friday about it but whateer. DL has dumped Bo 3x and yet still appears to be competing for her so doccubus continues to make absolutely no sense. But KHR & ZP scenes together are always gold and we had a bunch of fun drunken ones in this. I love having Tamisn back as herself but different. A little softer, more tender, and ready to embrace the Happy Sunshine Gang as her family. At this point, we just have to toss out any expectation of consistency ever, but especially regarding any and all of Bo's relationships, and roll with each episode one by one.

Not that I'm going to stop picking it apart, that is.
I do have a job to do here, after all. ;)
Annie Moore
169. drusilla_doll
I have always liked the KHR and ZP scenes in the past, and then when you throw in PRA, I am sure it's comedic gold. Plus, I am not averse to Lauren and Dyson calling a truce and warming up to each other a bit.

It's interesting that the two people Bo's truly opened up to this season about her fears about herself are Dyson and Tamsin. I wonder why we aren't seeing as much of this with Kenzi?
Nadine Robb
170. cmm
The car wash scene made me roll my eyes but honestly I the grand scheme of things it was a minor blip. I really liked how they included almost every fanbases issues and sorta solved them in this ep? I also really liked the return of Bruce.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
171. Kiersten
Oh and we got some GREAT Tamsin back story about being a Valkyrie and how she came to meet The Wanderer and that she basically took the job to track down Bo because she didn't believe anyone described the way The Wanderer had described Bo could actually be real and exist. So she thought it was a throwaway job that kept paying until she actually found Bo. That was nifty. Though if The Wanderer would "do anything to get a mate, even create one if he had to" does that mean he's *not* Bo's father and instead wants to mate with her? I gotta watch that again because it was majorly unclear.

Also, the people screaming the most are, as usual, die-hard doccubus fans who are pissed that Bo was making out with Tamsin. They can't scream "hetronormative bullshit!" because she's a woman, so they have to find something else to bitch about and are going to continue bitching at every episode because they'll never accept that their 'ship isn't end game and so will always be unhappy. Tune 'em out. I do.
Annie Moore
173. drusilla_doll
They're also mightily upset Dyson and Lauren admitted they don't hate each other anymore. How dare the show imply that an awkward friendship between rivals might be possible. ;)

I think it's possible The Wanderer was mating with Fae in order to bring about the true 'Queen' whom he wants to rule by his side. So he might be both father and mate. ICK.

Mind you, it happens all the time in myths and legends: gods mating within the family. I think it's meant to skeeve us out on an extra level, in terms of just how far this entity will go to achieve his goals.

Has anyone else been getting Haven vibes with all of this? We have glowy handprints, chunks of memories missing, the lead being afraid of how dark she is and what she's capable of, a creepy evil guy who's claiming her as his mate etc.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
174. Kiersten
Thats true about incest running rampant amongst traditional mythology. I wonder if it explains how he got Aoife pregnant, that he was trying to breed the best sucessor/queen to rule beside him. It would explain how she was given over to the Dark Fae king 1000+ years but didn't give birth to Bo until 30 years ago. The Wanderer could have scooped her up somehow and imprisoned her to breed with in his efforts to get an heir/queen. Gross but possible.
Nadine Robb
175. cmm
Father and mate? Excuse me while I vomit, never thought they would go there. As for people moaning about Dyson and Lauren admitting they don't hate each other much, what you gonna do? They would moan even if they still hated each other. If this is the way they want to play the triangle withe both of them sharing Bo, i'm all for it. This episode was very calm and that was because there was no fanbase wanking.

What I would like to know is, if this is the reason that Aoife whisked Bo away after she was born? Lastly, I really really would like to know what the wanderer looks like. I can't take the suspense anymore.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
176. Kiersten
Actually, @cmm, there was a *lot* of fanbase wanking, but this time it was for Vaulkubus, and honestly, given how this season has played out in that regard, it's their turn.

I find the father and mate thing to be seriously vomit-inducing too, but it is a trope in mythological lore. Assigning it to The Wanderer doesn't mean Bo went along with it.
Nadine Robb
177. cmm
I guess I should elaborate on what I meant by fanbase wanking, I just felt that this episode didn't bother me as much with it. Usually it's between doccubus and dyson and bo shippers, so in terms of those two couples I didn't see any. The Valkubus fanwanking didn't bother me so much because I see no future in it. I see it as a one off. I didn't see anything between Tamsin and Bo but friendship.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
178. Kiersten
@cmm - agreed about not being upset about the Vaulkubus stuff (and I'm truly not) and for exactly the same reason. I love Bo and Tamsin paling around together and its lovely to see Tamsin opening up to her and the sisterly vibe between them at the end. It's darling. And the stuff between Dyson & DL was so meta, so much the show talking to the fan bases, so much KHR & ZP having a good time together with their characters taking the piss outta each other, especially after the two actors had such a hot sex scene together last week, it's hard to do anything but enjoy it with them.
nypinta
179. nypinta
I had to watch it via a crappy link too but even so the episode was clearly just a bunch of fun. But it got Bo and Tamsin back together and she could explain herslef finally to Bo about The Wanderer. But I guess this means he can exist on this plane or dimension or how else would he have been able to hire Tamsin?

The complaints I'm seeing are ridiculous. Complaints about all the female characters being used to prop up Dyson. Tamsin is a stalker. Why does EA hate Doccubus because Lauren and Bo never talked about why Lauren worked with Taft. Uh, Bo wanted to talk about it but Lauren shut her down several times. And Tamsin was the one that just started talking about her part in Bo being taken by him of her own accord. Both incidents are character consistent. So, whatever. And some complaining because there isn't more Bo and Kenzi together. Bo's kinda got some serious stuff going on and she's been with Kenzi more this season than she was last season.

I thought it was funny that Krampus was actually not the bad guy. Disappointed that Hale and Kenzi seem to be struggling already. But I like that Kenzi doesn't care and Hale needs to just chill the hell out.

Drunk Trick is awesome Trick. "You're pretty." Tamsin: "I know." hahahaha.

And the trio of Vex, Lauren, and Dyson was awesome and I suspect the three of them paid off the writers to have a scene together. I'm AOK with that.
nypinta
180. Stacymd2
So I gather this was a good epi? I'm glad you all liked it. I can't wait to see it. Did Rainer make an appearance? Did the overall plot move forward?
nypinta
181. nypinta
Mmmmm, sort of? Another clue, really. I think next episode is the one. But there was some resolution, which is also important. At least to me.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
182. Kiersten
Agree w/@Nypita (as usual). It wasn't an ep designed to move things forward but a few lingering items, particularly regarding Tasmin, were resolved. Looks like 4.9 will start a ride that won't slow down till the finish
nypinta
184. Stacymd2
Oooooo, I can't wait. Let's hope we see Rainer in 409. I'm looking forward to the comments tomorrow.
nypinta
185. TheGardner
I miss Bo and Kenzi. Oh yeah and this episode was stupid. I guess it was fun to watch people goof around and get drunk, but this is episode 8 already, way much filler. I need to see it again, for now disappointed.
Carmen Pinzon
186. bungluna
Finally found a link that worked. Much to discuss tomorrow, but still worried about the lack of progress so far into the season.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
187. Kiersten
@bungluna - there definitely could be more progress at this point but when you break it down, there has been a lot in these 8 episodes, it just hasn't been all crammed together. Ultimately, I think starting the season without Anna Silk did the most damage in pacing. We didn't get Bo started on her journey until she was sorting out Kenzi's sitch with Massimo in E4. Up till then, it was all about remembering Bo, finding Bo, and bringing Bo home while seeing where Doctor Lauren had wound up. Like S3, the first episode was a big fanwank to kick off the season, although vastly improved by far over S3's horrible opener. Bo had her own scenes in E2, but they didn't *do* anything except give her a French maid to feed on and a lock to pick. And then we had to backtrack in E5 to do the doccubus adventures with Vex, which had some great stuff for his back story but did very little to move the main story forward. At least the opera singer in E6 had some clues about Bo's time with The Wanderer and a lot of thematic points and PTSD scenes for Bo, which is part of her emotional journey.

The other seeming goal of this season has been to tie up a *lot* of dangling plot threads of S3 and basically undo the epic ton of damage they did overall with that season. That's taken time too to set everyone in a place where they could interact and address (or not as the case was in some sitches) those things.

So yeah, we've just had episode 8 and we still havent seen The Wanderer and Bo seems to be asking the same questions. But we've learned a lot about the Una Mens and how they connect with Trick and Dyson, the oldest Fae in the Faemily, and we've learn more about what Trick's actions were to end the Great Fae War and set up the blood laws and how he regrets that, and we've seen a lot more of the Dark Fae and of Fae politics in general, and we've had a back story each for Dyson and Doctor Lauren and Vex and Tamsin all of which directly apply in one way or another to either the Una Mens, The Wanderer or, in Doctor Lauren's case, a hastily constructed not entirely thought out slap dash personal history. We know about the shoes and the gang is actively looking for them, apparently having a bunch of tangential missions as they do. We've had Bo dealing with her PTSD sometimes better than others, and we've had a *lot* of dangling plot threads and unanswered questions tied up from S3. In the midst of which Kenzi and Hale got together, Tamsin was reborn and was raised by a loving family for a change, which has slightly altered her personality for the better, Bo and Dyson had some great love, relationship growth, and sexy times, and Doctor Lauren dumped Bo for the third and hopefully the final time.

Really, it's been a busy season. Overall, I'm loving it.
Marie Sullivan
189. minime2
LG always seems to have 1 filler episode per season and I usually love them, Schools Out, Witches of Faewick are great filler episodes. Knowing LG thinks go into overdrive in episodes 12 & 13 and they will leave us wanting more.
Mary Beth House
190. UberFaenatic
I'm kind of bummed that there isn't a new thread up for Groundhog Fae. :(
Kiersten Hallie Krum
191. Kiersten
I've been checking for it but I think it's a casualty of the holiday week as the offices are closed until the new year.

Till something changes, keep posting here.
Mary Beth House
193. UberFaenatic
Okie dokie. :) My initial thoughts:

Well I know people here will be totally surprised by this...but I absolutely adored this episode. I'm a sucker for groundhog day episodes in general anyway. Two of my favorites? Xena: Been There, Done That and Stargate SG-1: Window of Opportunity.

First things first... my baby's back! And all grown up too. :) And it only took EIGHT EPISODES. :( But she's back so I'll stick with the :)

This was not a "filler" or stand alone episode like I've seen some suggest. But if a character is focused on that some don't like, then it becomes a filler. lol Well, no. It doesn't quite work that way. ;) Fillers/stand alones do not move major story arcs forward.

Not that being a filler would be a bad thing per se. One of my favorite episodes of Doctor Who is Blink, and that is very much as stand alone.

You know, I don't think there haven't been any filler episodes this season. All have progressed the major arc in one way or another.

There's a lot to digest in this one...so I'll probably rewatch before doing a full review.
nypinta
194. TheGardner
Upon rewatch, on a real link as opposed to a crappy live stream obstructed by screaming Tamsin fans(I get that you kids love her, but this isn't TRL and she's not Justin Timberlake), I will amend my earlier assessment. As a stand-alone it was very decent; the kind of light hearted fun I would have enjoyed more if this was episode 3 or 4. This late in the season I was hoping for more movement rather than fluff. With five episodes left I am really hoping that the show is done with the fanservice crap and will get on with telling the story.
nypinta
196. Bofan
I believe Bo loves Dr Lauren cause she only says "i love you" to Dr Lauren.
she let Lauren go because she believes Dr Lauren is not happy with her. She is trying to give Dr Lauren space like Dr Lauren gave Bo space when Bo needed to feed. She is trying not to overpower a human who is miserable in her company as she does not believe in control.
As far as Dr Lauren is concerned she (I believe) is trying to research and become a fae successfully so that she can return the love she feels for Bo and can keep up with Bo's sexual and nurishment demands.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
197. Kiersten
Hi Bofan! Thanks for leaving a comment and adding your voice to our discussion.
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