Mon
Nov 18 2013 11:23am

Lost Girl Season 4, Episode 2 Discussion: Looking for Loves

Hale in Lost Girl Season 4, episode 2, Sleeping Beauty SchoolLast night's official synopsis of Lost Girl 4x02, “Sleeping Beauty School”:

Dyson seeks out an elemental Fae to rescue someone he loves. Meanwhile, Kenzi’s stuck on babysitting duty—but her unlikely charge might be the key to cracking the case.

*****SPOILERS*****

As Season 4 continues, everyone is still looking for Bo, and help arrives from unusual places—Dyson meets Tamsin as a young girl, who mentions Bo's father, and with the aid of a compass stolen by Kenzi (go, Kenzi!), he discovers Bo is not on this plane. Vex and Lauren make appearances as well, and we get to see Bo, although we're not sure quite where she is.

And Hale and Kenzi kiss! OMG!

Full recaps return when Lost Girl Season 4 begins airing in the U.S. on SyFy in 2014, but meanwhile, what did you think of last night's episode?

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220 comments
Annie Moore
1. drusilla_doll
I want to rewatch the episode before I comment on it; lots to digest and mull over.

However, I've found some of the reactions around the fandom today to be really interesting. It's one thing to have a hate on for a character like Dyson (for whatever reason) or to have concerns about the portrayal of women vs men on the show (I find this a double standard sometimes, though) but it's not acceptable IMO to start implying something about the moral character/and or judgment of the fans who happen to prefer a particular character or pairing.

Today, I have started to see those sorts of responses. So beware when you're out there reading the forums/blogs. It's turning very ugly. Even the oft championed EA is not immune from the backlash.
whiskeywhite
2. whiskeywhite
I agree @drusilla_doll, the Showcase blog for instance is dumping big time on Dyson, although so far the discussion is quite good about, "What happened to empowered women?"And BTW, I see you in there contributing. Great.

As is said last night on the Ep 4.01 thread, I found the episode boring and now I will add, generally somewhat distasteful. I couldn't put my finger on what was bothering me. But now I realize that it was in part how they have written Dyson's character.This season is supposed to be "what we know about Lost Girl upside down." Upside down is right, ordering women around and bashing them in the mouth is not Dyson. KHR couldn't even pull off the "why I love Bo" speech convincingly, IMO.

Early on, Dyson says that "there are a lot of things that Bo must never find out," in response to Trick saying that Bo must never find out about Aife's retreat into insanity (why not? And is that the last of her?). So I guess we are to take from this that Dyson does remember his attraction to Kenzi and is planning to hide that from Bo. Again, not like him (though I realize that he has lied to Bo in the past, "in order to protect her," so I stand on shaky ground there. But he did promise her "no more secrets" and he seems to be a man of his word. But maybe the writers forgot).

Other yucky stuff -- I realize that Hale was supposedly exuding the spell of the magic perfume put on him by the perfume lady (a mouthless woman on a show about empowered women? Really?). But the scene of Kenzi dragging him onto the kitchen table wasn't "fun", it was tasteless. And please see my comments from last night about 'the return of Hale the nincompoop'). And did we have to have blonde bimbo killer beauty school students reminding Hale of his sexual fantasies? I know I sound like a prude, which faithful readers will know I'm not. But is this a show for adults or not?

Am waiting eagerly to hear from others.
Carmen Pinzon
3. bungluna
Since I refuse to peak at any other LG forum, I'll await your update on the situation @drusilla_doll.

I found the episode just meh. The LG writers seem fond of wasting time on trivila stuff and then have to stuff all the action in the final few episodes. Taken together, there was no reason why E1 & E2 couldn't be edited into just one episode.

Things I liked:

1. Vex in bondage!
2. Hale and Kenzi kiss.
3. The creepy lady playing the Una Mens.
4. Teen Tamsin and her reaction to boobs.

Things I didn't like:

1. The reason for Hale and Kenzi's kiss.
2. Nobody's noticed that Kenzi's in financial trouble? Really? Trick mentions the poor state of Hilton Hovel but nobody does anything about it.
3. WonderLauren is straying into TSTL territory. She's a wanted fugitive but just blindly trusts those around her?
4. Lauren + Dyson = BFF , yuck!
whiskeywhite
5. whiskeywhite
@drusilla_doll! You must share here your ruminations from the Showcase blog about what's going on with all this off-kilter stuff (for @bungluna and others who won't see it). Abolutely FABULOUS. Please let there be a sane reason for this other than bad writing.
Annie Moore
7. drusilla_doll
Here it is:

I actually have a theory about what might be happening - IF we are
supposed to believe something is still very off with various characters.
I am not sure that we are (since this ooc character actions issue has
come up last season and turned out to just be wysisyg), but if it really
is the case that the audience is meant to be feeling out of sorts, then
I think there's a good possible explanation for it.

Bear in mind that it's just a theory that began floating in my head when I was reading some reactions this morning and wondering to myself : how much of this is disappointment due to shipper bias and how much of this is disappointment (in a non-shipper way) due to a misinterpretation/divergence of writer intention, and how much of this current outrage is exactly what the writers intended.

So - my 'What if' theory is....

What if the rune-glass spell is still working its magic? It wasn't a dud, it just takes time to complete.

Bo loves Lauren - force a break up and replace that with jealousy over a new love interest Crystal (make her feel not so special if she finds out)
Bo trusts Dyson - take away that trust by having him sleep with Kenzi, talk with Trick about hiding more things from her and generally act a little dodgier than normal. (make Bo feel like she doesn't have him to watch her back anymore)
Bo believes Kenzi would never betray her - Massimo kisses Kenzi and his power is that of creating addictions. Addicted to getting Fae juice Kenzi betrays Bo by selling the sphere Trick needs to find Bo to Massimo for another fix and leaves Tamsin alone when she was meant to protect her in case she knew where Bo went. (Bo feels betrayed - esp if she finds out about Denzi too)

And voila we have an emotionally isolated, frustrated and vulnerable Bo who might say screw those guys and be more receptive to her father's overtures should he approach her again.

Obviously the only way my theory would hold water would be if they made it explicitly clear - and sooner than later - that certain people werestill being manipulated externally. But I believe that we fans often
over-analyse and come up with convoluted theories which make better
sense than what we are actually given, and often in the end it's just,
as you say, poor continuity and inconsistent writing at fault.

To be perfectly honest, the first time I watched it, I find it reasonably enjoyable with the usual high and low points. Then I hit the boards and the vitriol was so thick and damning, and with all this talk of misogynistic writing and so forth I am feeling like I need several rewatches to see what the big deal is and am feeling a bit out of sorts for NOT being as sensitive to/aware of these issues as some people apparently are.
Katherine Bloom
8. lsbloom
I liked this episode better than the first. They screwed up fewer basic rules of writing and even managed to find some dramatic tension. So, some points for improvement. Kenzi felt more like Kenzi (Thank Goodness!). And Kenzi/Hale is so much better than Kenzi/Dyson.

They lose points for the continued Kenzi/Dyson crap, for making Hale a whimp, for why can't Vex wear clothes?, for Kenzi's reliance on fairy dust that she just wastes, for making Tamsin so stupid she can't figure out how to hit a play button after repeatedly being showed it, for the hideous getup they have Lauren in, for not explaining or delving into the parallel plane/death train/elemental fae mythology at all.

But really for the blatantly asinine, Lauren on the run plot. She's still calling people and checking in? She sees a fae, exposes herself by operating on him, and then just blindly trusts the boss lady and goes on her merry way. Seriously? If you are on the run from the mob and a mobster is the only customer you've ever had at your phony job, you leave! You run. You don't stick around and explain that you're in danger to some strange woman who tries to befriend you even though you've been awful and who didn't freak at "alien" weirdness happening in her diner. If we have to believe the Lauren has been enslaved and mistreated and tricked by the fae and then by Taft, why wouldn't she be the least bit suspicious!?!?!?! Come on, lady. How can the writers expect us to believe she is a super smart doctor lady when they continue to write her so excessively dumb? How has she not been killed in traffic running after a ball? A fae shows up and happens to choke, then the boss gives her a "protect the fae or make some money" test, and she doesn't think anything of it?

I liked the boys investigating together again, that was nice.
Katherine Bloom
9. lsbloom
I haven't read any other boards...people are really freaking out?

It is because of the hideous hair and makeup and clothes they have Lauren in? Because that would upset me.
whiskeywhite
11. TheGardner
I have to go chase that dollar so I shall be brief and off further ruminations at a later date (i.e. probably tomorrow morning when I get home from work and can't fall asleep).

There was one thing, of the oh so many, that bothered me about this episode; the violence against women. I get it Dyson heep big powerful manly man, growl watch me rip this safe door right off it's hinges, OK fine so why in the next beat is he using said brute strength on that woman Seline. Not that she didn't necessarily deserve to get smacked, but for someone so "noble" he has no problem wolfing out and putting his hands on a lady, or in MK's case knocking out a tooth. Not cool bro, nor was it cool to have Seline's bed partner elbow her to the face, but whatevs he at least had a valid excuse. Unlike wolf man, the woman wouldn't do as he wanted so Dyson used his wolf to intimidate her, nice.

Also, the word on the street was there was going to be some big call back to season 1 in this episode, which I am guessing was the Kenzi/Hale thing. This came off as super awkward in light of last week's Denzi debacle, but was it real or was it the perfume? Kenzi has known for awhile about how Hale feels and has yet to concede, so why is she holding back?

Personally I found the Trick/Dyson interaction as the more prevelant S1 call back. In and that here we have the two of them conspiring again and taking away Bo's choices and autonomy by deciding what they deem she is privy to. I sincely hope this deception is not swept under the rug and is actually confronted by her. In the past the lies were meant to protect her, but here I can't see them as anything beyond "self preservation" on both Trick and Dyson's parts.

One final point before I depart, bring Bo back full force next episode, this show is nothing without her. KS held her own last week, but KHR cannot carry an episode. His acting was over the top and abrassive. Last week as second fiddle he was fine, even good at some points, he and KS were great together. This week it was back to douchy Dyson, with his stupid white knight false nobility complex. "Bo is in love with Lauren, but I still fight for her." plaintively states all that is wrong with his character.
whiskeywhite
12. TheGardner
@Bungluna - I agree, Lauren revealing herself to someone she just met reads very much like she is bordering on TSTL territory. I would say it is OOC, but she did follow Taft rather easily and she couldn't draw the conclusion Batman Ash was the one that cursed Nadia. On a side note it really pisses me off when characters are dummed down to facilitate the plot.
Annie Moore
13. drusilla_doll
Apparently it was the 'Keep your women down' episode and has exposed the seedy underbelly of the writing establishment who in truth are all misogynistic, paternalistic, hetero-normative wolves in sheep's clothing. I wish I was exaggerating the hyperbolic nature of the comments but...

Dyson got a huge pounding. Some of which I think was projection or misunderstanding. For example one fan was criticising Dyson being taken off to the side at the Beauty School not Hale. He got a head message but the fan thought she heard 'hand massage' and therefore he must have been getting a hand job!!! How disgusting!!

Some of it may be warranted. It depends on one's stance, I suppose. Are we gender blind or gender sensitive in this kind of genre show where they are also attempting to be sexual orientation blind (as in it doesn't matter what sex Bo's or anyone's lover in the show is).

I agree the sleeping beauty scene was weird, but it was Endymion who was the sexist shithead there in his comments. The woman had kept him asleep and imprisoned for how long?And he got to be shown up as being a stupid pompous sexist ass who got run over by a train because of his own ego.

I don't have a problem with Male on Female violence here because I have watched shows like Buffy and Angel where often the women are the most kick-ass powerful threats. Female Fae can hold their own. Are we only allowed Male on Male and Female on Male violence on a show where there's bound to be a lot of violence in general? What's the context? Cleo was clever opponent and definitely an equal in power to Dyson. She's still playing him expertly. Vex was tortured practically naked. I've seen enough throat grabbing on Angel to be not that irked by it. Someone like Aife being slapped or punched - for example - is not the same as Lauren being terrorised by that Gilly Monster's boyfriend. There's a difference.

Sometimes I just get the impression some fans want all male characters to be completely cut out of the show altogether. Or at least to be insignificant and passive bystanders.

Bo and Tamsin will hopefully be back next week and balance will be restored in terms of the cries of the women having no agency etc.
Katherine Bloom
14. lsbloom
Yep, Bungluna--TSTL!

@TheGardner--given the number of people she blindly trusts, I'd say it isn't dumbing down for a plot point, it is the actual character. That's pretty consistent for this show.
Katherine Bloom
15. lsbloom
Okay, I actually read some of Showcase...well until I got annoyed and had to post and then immediately regretted it.

Dyson abuses women? Are we kidding? We want strong women, but women should be protected and put on a pedastal and kept safe because they are delicate flowers? What? If you go after a guy with a weapon, okay an umbrella, but still, he's got to be able to defend himself. Her getting hit was obviously meant as an joke-y accident, how sorry did Dyson seem and then she went after him again. Bo goes after guys and she ought to. And they ought to be able to fight back. A physical confrontation is a physical confrontation. But they've never showed Dyson do anything but restrain in return--even if he gets decked or scratched or choked.
Annie Moore
16. drusilla_doll
Let me just say, though, I did like her just saving the Fae's life no matter the consequences of outing herself. She acted decisively and will much poise because she's a brilliant doctor. That felt like a good moment for the character.

But then her whining 'wanna come home' phone call to Dyson and wishy washy plea to Crystal to delete the footage and the impression I get that she is just going to stay there rather than get the hell out of dodge even though the Fae patient is bound to blab her whereabouts is just plain silly.

Then again the writers had her completely miss the fact that a murder victim (where Bo was a suspect)was visibly strangled by someone with six fingers.

/shrugs.
Annie Moore
17. drusilla_doll
@isbloom: As predicted the argument turned into a personal attack. As I said before I think some of it is projection, triggered issues. I myself have been a /survivor of sexual and physical violence. I can understand that someone might be offended or outraged by parts of the episode, and that's their prerogative, but I don't think theirs is the only interpretation. Nor do I think this episode is pandering to Dyson or showing some sort of sexist bias.

There's a big difference between victimisation and defending oneself. There's a big difference between threatening someone who has unknown powers/strengths and threatening someone you know is physically inferior/weaker than you.

By making it a male vs female thing, you're compounding that 'paternalistic' mentality. Because for the outrage to have any resonance, you have to assume the woman is always weaker, the victim in the scenario.

Bottom-line: Are the male characters allowed to defend/confront/interrogate female characters at all? Or are only the women allowed to hurt/attack/confront both the females and males on the show?

When you really think about it, which is the more sexist stance?
Katherine Bloom
18. lsbloom
I didn't mind Lauren saving the guy. Or even the whiny phone call. (I minded her not calling a burner phone but whatever).

But I truly minded her not leaving the minute the fae was "fixed." That's when I got annoyed. She is bound to stab people with unsterile instruments the should be in character. But not leaving when the fae found her is just dim.
whiskeywhite
19. stacymd2
Wow, this was another good episode. Everyone had something going on with their character. I am pulling for Kenzi and Hale to get together. I was a little confused by the Eddie/Cleo thing. KS & KHR had said that TPTB will do more episodic story arcs this season instead of Monster of the Week stand alones. This episode was a bridge to the next. It reminds me of Supernatural.

Things I loved:

Kenzi dealing with young Tamsin
Dyson telling “Eddie” how he feels for Bo
Dyson & Hale’s interactions
Hale expressing his feelings to Kenzi and their make out session
KHR & MK’s scenes together
Amber/Lauren and Crystal doing shots and the hug at the end

Lost Girl is starting out strong. I feel good about Season four. I hope they keep this up. What an amazing difference from Season three.

We got confirmation that it’s been three years since the start of the show. K & H have been a long time coming. This also means that Dyson and Bo have not been in a relationship in at least two years. Bo & Lauren were together for at least a year.

@drusilla_doll: You are so right about things getting ugly. Dyson hate is at an extreme level. It’s not just the character. They are attacking KHR’s looks and acting. Also, they seem to think EA hates women. I read those boards before watching the show online. When doccubus exploded I was expecting 402 to be all about Dyson, but 402 was balanced with all of the characters doing their part to help find Bo while living their lives.

@bungluna: I thought 402 was entertaining. The writers are wrapping up loose ends and setting things up both plot and romance wise. Lauren doing surgery on the choking diner was stupid, but it was totally a “Lauren” move. I cannot imagine Lauren letting anyone choke to death just to save her own skin. It did remind me of a similar scene in the movie “The Heat”. When Lauren starting cutting open the guy’s neck I busted out laughing. You do not need to slice open someone’s neck!!!!!

@whiskeywhite: What are people on the Showcase blog saying about “empowered women”? How were the lead women not empowered? As per EA on twitter to a vile troll:
“EA: @kedrie Clio pounced, the Keeper interrogated, Lauren operated, Kenzi deduced/mentored/seduced. And Bo? Bo jumped”.
Women do not need to punch someone in the face to be empowered.
The Dyson and Cleo were fighting. I thought Cleo was giving as good as she got. Kenzi asserting her sexual desire for Hale was “tasteless”? Is Bo the only female that is allowed to do that with a man?

I don’t see the 2-second, 2-line conversation between Trick & Dyson--about Trick possibly keeping Aife’s insanity and Dyson keeping the Kenzi snog from Bo-- as a big deal.
Dyson and Kenzi are grown & single. B & D have not been in a relationship for two years. Bo would have to be a massive hypocrite to get angry about their kiss. If Dyson & Kenzi feel guilty and don’t tell her, so what? It is their business. (E.g.: Bo kept seeing Ryan knowing what he did to Nate & Kenzi. Also, she has sex whenever and with almost whoever she wants and Dyson/Lauren have to live with that.)

Aife was wounded not killed. Trick clearly feels horrible about hurting her. Bo knows Aife is no weak angle and can succu-heal herself easily. Everyone knows Aife is BS crazy. Bo, again, would have to be a hypocrite or a jerk to hate Trick for defending himself against someone who attacked him with a butcher knife. (Even if that someone is her mother, who she barely knows.) If Trick feels guilty and doesn’t tell Bo, so what? We have not seen the last of Aife. (E.g.: Bo killed Nadia.)

I don’t understand why TPTB wrote the scene the way they did, other than to make Dyson and Trick look bad for duccubus’s benefit. This is the fodder they are now hanging on to. It must help to equate Lauren’s numerous failings to Dyson somehow.

The only thing I actually agree with doccubus on is my concern about the number of females being maimed or killed thus far. This is Lost Girl not Game of Thrones. We are only two episodes in, so I am not distressed yet.

@Isbloom: I thought Kenzi and Dyson were back to being like big brother/little sister. I didn’t get a romantic vibe at all. I didn’t think Hale came off as a “whimp” in any way. He is a man in love, nervous to tell his paramour the depth of his feelings.

I find it fascinating how people can watch the same show and takeaway totally different views from it.
Annie Moore
20. drusilla_doll
I see some people aghast at Dyson for : grabbing Cleo's umbrella and it whacking her in the face. It was played for comedy and she certainly weathered it well since she herself started the attack. Grabbing Selene by the throat - which was a strategic move since she was Fae and her deadly weapon was a kiss on the lips. How else was he meant to prevent her from lunging forward and using her attack on him as well? It was further subverted by Selene clearly taking pleasure from his actions and egging him on. Sadly I think the writers just thought this could be a cool edgy scene. Angel the Vampire used it ad nauseum on his own show to threaten/interrogate his enemies (Lilah in particular) and I don't recall major outrage, but I may just be recalling it wrong.

What about Vex using his mesmer power to subdue Evony in the S3 finale? Holding a taser close to her eye - was there outrage at violence against a female character then? Or when he made her dance in her underwear.

The outrage just feels a little selective/targeted to me.

It's well within someone's right to express disdain and be offended by the actions of a character in the show, however, I do think people need to be careful not to assert their opinions/interpretations as authoritative.

I think the writers could have done better - for example having Kenzi stay and look after Tamsin was meant to help them have some bonding and I presume will lead to Tamsin helping Kenzi with her Massimo problem. The writers wanted them to have scenes together and build a new rapport. Which meant Kenzi couldn't take the train ride too. However, they could have had it be Kenzi's idea, rather than having to have Dyson insist she stay. His reasoning was sound, but of course others took it as him giving orders in a macho way.

I thought Hale's awkward nervousness over Kenzi was cute. Because he's usually so suave and confident, I think they were trying to show how much higher the stakes were should she reject him. Then of course the mark/perfume on him heightened her reaction, he realised it and tried to pull back from the tryst - which imo showed his respect for her.
Annie Moore
21. drusilla_doll
Okay upon review he did threaten Selene by grabbing her throat first, before it was revealed she had her kissing power. I was wrong about that.

I read on another board that Dyson was blamed for the elbow in the face but he didn't do that, Endymion did. When he called Bo a strumpet Dyson was offended by that and threatened him too.

I totally agree that Endymion seemed a chauvinistic dick, using demeaning words like trollop and strumpet etc. But he was deliberately being shown to be a dick and got his come-uppance through his own arrogance.

In the sequence of events with Cleo - she attacks Eddy and is choking him with her umbrella. Dyson tries to haul her off of him, she attacks him with the umbrella, they grapple, he hits her in the face with the handle as they fight for possession of it.

Then she exploits the situation, crying to gain his sympathies and put him on the back foot. He feels bad and apologises, stepping closer and she viciously renews her attack, taking the opportunity to grab his throat. She's no damsel, but is deliberately exploiting his more 'chivalrous' instincts and desire to fight honorably.

She's being portrayed as very much a match for him in combat.
Annie Moore
22. drusilla_doll
Sorry for the spamming, but also:

Can anyone explain the logic of Lauren wanting to come home again?

After all, she voluntarily up and left, causing this clusterfuck in the first place, embarrassing the Ash etc. She chose to permanently relocate and go work for a human (who turned out to be a bad apple, but still).

Now she wants to come home? Why? Wasn't she also leaving to get away from Bo? Didn't she want a clean break?

Shouldn't she have thought about her actions before she took such a drastic step?

What exactly does she have to come back home to?
whiskeywhite
23. stacymd2
@drusilla_doll: You know there is only outrage when Dyson does something or says something or sniffs anything or just looks in Bo’s general direction.

When Dyson helps Bo he is a jerk with a white knight false nobility complex who takes away Bo’s agency. When Dyson does anything noble and selfless it is fake and for selfish reasons. When Dyson makes a bone headed mistake he is weak and useless. When Dyson expresses his feelings, he is emo and one-dimensional. When Dyson searches for Bo he is really trying to save Bo when she doesn’t need to be saved. When Dyson acts like a leader he is a misogynistic a**hole.
When he compliments Lauren, the writers are using Lauren to prop up Dyson because he is "unlikeable".

@drusilla_doll: Some “fans” do want Dyson cut off the show completely. No matter what he does he is a jerk to them. I was reading a site earlier today where people were wishing that Dyson, Trick and Hale were off the show.

There is no teeth grinding outrage over: Vex’s actions against the Morrigan; The Morrigan melting people and ruining great artists’ lives then killing them; Lauren taking the Cabbit’s DNA without consent or setting Taft up to be killed or her constant lying; Tamsin killing the coma guy; Bo using her powers to basically steal, use people sexually, feed and/or to get information, etc…

It made total sense to me that Kenzi should stay at Hilton Hovel with Tamsin. I also thought the Kenzi / Tamsin scenes were set up to make them friends in future episodes. I thought they were sweet.
Annie Moore
24. drusilla_doll
Apparently it was akin to telling Kenzi to go stay in the kitchen and cook him some damn eggs. Forgetting of course that he's a FAE COP (Hale, too), whose job it is to investigate such things and who has more contacts when it comes to the Fae world. Meanwhile Kenzi was a wanted 'human terrorist' who had only narrowly avoided being hauled off to jail in the episode previous - perhaps it was a good idea to lay low for a while?

It might have been fun to have Dyson saddled with babysitting duty. But can you imagine the comments then? A grown man trying to take care of a little girl who has a sudden spurt into puberty? Eww, gross, pervy. There were already remarks like that in regard to Hale's flailing.

But the writers clearly had an agenda in mind which is setting up Kenzi and Tamsin forming a friendship further down the line.
Katherine Bloom
25. lsbloom
I'm super excited that they've given us a plausible reason for Tamsin and Kenzi to become friends down the line...well, other than the fact that everyone worth having around (and most guest stars) makes friends with Kenzi because they recognize her awesomeness.
Carmen Pinzon
26. bungluna
I really don't get it. S3.1 was a homage to bad porn and fun, but S4.2 is mysoginistic? I guess when it's female on female whatever it's ok but men should be whiped from the face of the Faeverse.

I personally think the show needs more male protagonists. We have: Kenzi, WonderLauren, Bo, Tamsin, Aife, the Morrigan and now Cleo and the waitress. And for males whe have what? Dyson, Hale, Massimo and Trick. Vex I don't know how to categorize (joke).

It just seems to me that some fans want a females only show, with maybe some male guest stars wandering through from time to time for Bo to fight and subdue.
Marie Sullivan
27. Minime
Www dot theloop.ca/showbiz/tv-guide/news/article/-/a/2911844/-Lost-Girl-Talk-Emily-Andras-on-Sleeping-Beauty-School-

EA talks about this episode.
Carmen Pinzon
28. bungluna
I'm with EA, Eddy getting run over by the train was hilarious.
Marie Sullivan
29. Minime
Next week will be a Lauren episode. I hope the episode revolves around a blonde Lauren, that wig is killing me. Does she not have a brush?
Annie Moore
30. drusilla_doll
Every time I see it, and those ugly bangs, I want to point and laugh. It makes taking any of the DL scenes seriously a tough mission.

Something more interesting to talk about are the Una Mens. Did you like their introduction?

I found them just off-putting enough in their cold rationality to be pretty scary. I think if they'd been zealots, frothing at the mouth it would have been more farcical. I like how strange they are. Sort of like the Observers from Fringe. Perhaps they adhere strictly to coded law and that's why they aren't forgiving nor particularly flexible when it comes to assessing the sitution.
whiskeywhite
31. whiskeywhite
Well, I turn my back for a couple of hours and I get all the wonderful comments I could wish for. Laugh out loud award of the evening -- @lsbloom's How has (Lauren) not been killed in traffic running after a ball? I then proceeded to read @TheGardner's comment as I have to go chase that ball, when she said dollar. Oh dear. And thanks @Minime for that link. I made sure to read the interview before posting this comment.

I must say that it never occurred to me that Kenzi having to deal with bratty Tamsin was grounds for a future friendship. They didn't seem that friendly to me. Hale even got stuck with the "when we grow up, our bodies change" talk. No girl talk. (I know, I know, I keep -- foolishly -- expecting people to have normal conversations on LG). But EA mentions the sparkling show Kenzi does for Tamsin, and that was sweet. I'd be happy to see a friendship develop. I'll be just as happy to see adult Tamsin back. I wonder if one of the things she'll have trouble remembering is her feelings for the Bo/Dyson/Kenzi family? Will she be back as a confident, self-sufficient, full-on dangerous Valkyrie?

I totally agree @stacymd2 that it is fascinating how people can watch the same show and take away totally different views from it. @drusilla_doll, you say, I do think people need to be careful not to assert their opinions/interpretations as authoritative. I'm not sure what you mean by "authoratative". We all try to make our arguments as strongly as possible with, we can only hope -- but don't always see :-) -- logical trains of thought backed up with accurate descriptions of what actually happened or was said in scenes as evidence (those are our 'authorities'). As long as we don't take the attitude that what we are arguing is obviously the truth and anything else is stupid or malicious, then in my view there's nothing wrong with trying to make a convincing argument (in an authoritative voice :-) ).

I agree that it's sweet that Hale is nervous about talking to Kenzi. But they're taking it too far. At the end of season 3 he said to her, very clearly and forcefully, "you were never just a friend to me", "I would be no good to anyone if anything happened to you", etc. etc. He made his feelings very clear and she got his meaning right away. Then he slipped her his Twig of Zamora to protect her, as she later realized, when he really could have used it to protect himself. At the very end of the season the last thing he says is “I gotta go see about a girl,” who we know is Kenzi.

But now, all of a sudden, in the new 'rebooted' season, he's not sure of his feelings (as he tells Dyson) and he's too shy to even say he "likes" her. Come on! This is making him -- I'm sorry to use a strong word -- a buffoon, again. (Regular readers will know that I am very sensitive about the only major Black character being treated -- in old school racist movie tradition -- as the child-like comic sidekick.)

Why could they not just have a serious conversation about how they feel about each other? (They could still be sweet and nervous.) They have serious issues to deal with -- e.g., human/Fae, as we have endlessly discussed re: Bo & Lauren, and Kenzi may have her own doubts about getting into a serious relationship. She answered bratty Tamsin's question as to why she broke up with her boyfriend saying (I assume she's talking about Nate) "you realize that it means giving up more than you knew ... and it leaves you wondering if it's ever worth loving again."

If Hale makes clear his love for her and Kenzi wants to assert her sexual desire for him, then I'm 110% for it. In fact, if Kenzi wants to give Hale a little (or big) push by making the first move, I say, "You go, girl!" Even on the kitchen table :-). But do we have to do the whole 'love drug/perfume' thing? Can't we let Kenzi make that decision for herself?

OK, enough soapbox for tonight.
Annie Moore
32. drusilla_doll
@Whiskeywhite: It's when the arguments become a reflection on the character of the fan that I start to call it into question. The sort of "The episode was clearly misogynistic. Dyson was clearly a controlling douchebag. How can anyone defend what he did? How can anyone defend him hitting or threatening a woman. What sort of person can keep on liking that sort of character." rhetoric which I am seeing is what is troubling me. It's that 'my interpretation is the only interpretation and now I am going to judge you because you disagree' logic which I find hard to stomach.

I much prefer a rational, reasoned debate. Yes, we can get passionate, but we can also forget we are conversing with human beings who have their own experiences to draw upon. Their own way of looking at things.

I somewhat liken it to political talking points. Where instead of just presenting an opinion and offering evidence to back that opinion, and allowing for other points of view, inflammatory assertions are made where to even attempt to disagree seems to tarnish the responder with some sort of moral or intellectual defect.

Make sense?
whiskeywhite
33. nypinta
Someone commented on Astrid, the mouth less oracle. She was probably inspired by Asariri, a Hindu oracle that literally means, "voice from the stars." And considering the fact that she was still able to speak quite clearly and had impressive juju in terms of seeing so much of both Dyson and Hale so clearly that she is in no way unempowered or a demonstration of that. She's fae. They take weird physical forms. I had no problems with the physicality of the episode. Fae women have always been described as being treated differently from human women in fae society. They are not the weaker sex and therefore ascribed a seperate set of rules. However I wouldn't be surprised that some of human attitudes haven't influenced some fae males attitude. But then they get hit by trains, so whatever. And I'm with stacymd2 that Dyson and Trick's "secrets" aren't really things that Bo necessarily has a right to know nor are they things she should get upset about. She stabbed her mother once. So why can't Trick? Unless Trick did something else with Aife, like handed her over to the Una Mens... well THAT Bo is going to get upset about. But Dyson and the Kenzi relationship that happened when Bo was gone from their memories is not something she gets to comment on. Someone mentioned them not noticing how broke Kenzi is because Trick made comments about the crack shack. Well, they've always lived there so I don't think he was making a comment on it's state now vs it being in any better shape then before. He's just commenting on how dangerous the place is for a child. And the fact that the place is ridiculous as a base for two people that are under almost constant threat. But will he offer them help in finding something more solid? Doubt it. I found the episode interesting in the main theme of it was truth, and how each character arrives at it. I said this on my blog, but each character had a chance to tell a truth and how they did was reflective of their character. Dyson said it to save Bo, Hale said it on advice from a trusted friend, Lauren said it when forced into a corner, Trick was vague, and Vex only told the truth when forced to. I found that interesting. Also, sorry no paragraph breaks. My lap top for some reason won't allow it.
whiskeywhite
34. nypinta
PS the creepy Una Mens was played by Christine Horne who is also in Sex After Kids with Kris, Zoie, and Paul. And she was in The Uuntitled Work of Paul Shepard with Kris and Zoie. You can see The Untitled Work of Paul Shepard on Vimeo On Demand. Search for TUWOPS.
Carmen Pinzon
35. bungluna
@nypinta - I made the remark about broke Kenzi. It just struck me a s weird that nobody is questioning how she's managing. But then, if they noticed and offered to help, it would be taking away her agency or some such bullcrap.
whiskeywhite
37. TheGardner
OK now before I move forward I want to clarify my earlier points. I do not believe that this episode was masogynistic. I understand that the MK umbrella fight was played for laughs and I understand that fae women and men are considered on a more even playing field. I still have my standard human notions that a man putting his hands on a woman is wrong. This is why the scene with Seline bothered me; instead of interrogating the woman Dyson uses his physical strength to bully her. He let his anger take over and was unessesarily rough with her and personally I found it disturbing to watch. Now as far as me calling him douchy, that comes from two points; his consant need to play the sole hero i.e. cutting both Hale and Kenzi out of the equation and his acknowledging that Bo loves someone else then forcing himself onto her. By that I mean he continuously inserts("fights") himself into her relationship instead of actually being noble and letting her be. The comment I quoted earlier, "Bo is in love with Lauren, but I still fight for her." is right up there with the "100 years" line from 3x09 and I do not find it romantic at all. Of course Bo shares some blame in this by allowing him these openings because she is immature and likes the attention. I also take issue with him and Trick continueing to hide things from her and this is where I feel he/they takes away her "agency".

I can also conceede that this falls back on the writers in many ways for not knowing how to write men, case in point Hale(WTF was wrong with him in this episode). As well as the direction of this episode because though it was paced decently, the actors(all of them) were flat and on the whole it was rather boring.

Characters:

Dyson - Glad he's not emo anymore, but I feel like his character is stuck. The interaction with Trick really stands out to me as indication of how little he has been developed since season 1, here's hoping that changes. I really liked his interaction with MK, they looked like they were having fun together. Serious buisiness, must find Bo, etc, etc, but still I laughed my ass off at their reactions to Eddie being flattened.

Hale - Ugh, he was a mess and IMO one of the worst performances KCC has churned out on this series. His interactions with Kenzi felt stilted and what was up with the whole "you must profess your love to her" story line, didn't he already do that in 3x12? Also was anyone else creeped out by him perving over Teen Tamsin like 30 seconds after he was making out with Kenzi?

Kenzi - So she is stealing from Trick to support her habbit, I can buy that, what I have a problem with is Kenzi willing to sacrifice their find-Bo-back-up(the ruby sphere) to do it. I think out of the performances she was probably the strongest, which is not saying much, and I liked the nice touch where after Tamsin flushed her stuff she got all twitchy.

Tamsin - Child or teen, take your pic they were both annoying. I get that was the point, but again cringe worthy acting.

Lauren - Burn that fucking wig!!! This is one place where I think the first episode failed the character by not letting us glimpse her without her memories of Bo. Would it have been so hard to fit in brief scene with her in the diner, just trim some of that stupid shit with cartoon Vex and then maybe her desperate actions would have made more sense. I get it she remebers Bo and is frantic to get to her, but what does she know, how much has she been let in on, does she even know Bo is missing? I didn't see a big deal with her calling Dyson, remeber she tried Kenzi first and couldn't reach her. As for the interactions with Crystal, eh it's hard to say from one episode, but I was feeling more of a longing for friendship than a love connection so we shall see. Also how did she know that guy was fae before she asked him because that is not even remotely close to how a tracheotomy is performed, geez don't TPTB watch Grey's Anatomy? Also revealing her identity and not getting the hell out of dodge after the alien surgery, stupid.

Bo - So she has amnesia, but sort of remembers Kenzi and I guess that she is a succubus since she fed off the maid or that could simply be instinctual. Now that she has jumped off the train I am interested to see where she ends up next episode and if she will remember anything more.

Vex - Gives up Bo to save his own ass, no surprise there. What did the Una Mens put in his mouth and I wonder what will happen to him now that Evony is free?

Final thoughts:

What happened to Aife and why is it oh so important that Bo never find out? So far the Una Mens seem creepy and I am interested in what the deal is with the masks, especially who the "claimed human" one is for. Now that Bo is off the train and Dyson/MK are on it what does that mean for them? It was nice continuity with the Wanderer card and I do feel that the writing is better this season and I am interested to see where this all goes.
Katherine Bloom
38. lsbloom
They stated that losing her child is what made Aoife go off the deep end. And remembering that loss made her cray-cray again. That is what Bo should not find out. That in some messed up way she could feel responsible for Aoife's insanity. Although they pretty much showed her as insane before from the Dark Lord's treatment and from Trick's betrayal, but whatever, continuity is a four-letter word with these guys.

The idea that a man should never hurt a woman is a PATERNALISTIC societal construct. I don't care if it applies to the fae or not. If you are complaining about perceived paternalism in the writing, you can't also run home to it and complain about how men restrain and fight with women using those notions as your support for the way the world should work.

Dyson is in charge without Bo because he's the second in command. Not because he has a penis. Because that's his role, has always been his role. He will go put himself in danger to save his pack. He is an alpha. The fact that some people can't deal with that fact is depressing to me, and choose to ignore the way the show has always been constructed frustrates me.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
40. Kiersten
I dont have a lot of time due to day job madness so few quick thoughts. I loved both of these episode and find them to be EPICALLY better than 85% of all of S3.

While I love the S1 callbacks, I think they have more of a point than just fanwanking and that is that without Bo, Kenzi, Dyson, Trick, Hale, and even Vex revert to who they were before Bo entered their lives. That was certainly the case in S4E1 with Dyson's reversion to playa, Kenzi scrambling to stay ahead of whomever she was dealing with on the street, Trick locked in his lair hiding from what's going on in Faeville, Hale losing all his confidence and self-possession and even Vex reverting to betrayal and outright murder. Bo's arrival in S1 dramatically and irrevocably altered the course of all their lives. Remove her from the equation and this is what happens. With their memory restored now, they are still dealing with the situations created by this lack/loss. As everyone knows, once you revert to past behaviors, it's even harder to get back to the good place you were once at. Kenzi especially is stuck in the mire and sinking fast.

That said, I'm deeply troubled by the fact that Trick and Dyson are back to "hiding" things from Bo b/c that subverts ALL of their character growth over three seasons, but if it's turns out to be related to character reversion due to Bo's absence I could be brought around. Right now, I think it's manufactured character assasignation to create future conflict. While I absolutely agree that Kenzi and Dyson both were free to pursue a (gag) romantic relationship, the emotional betrayal is still there for all three of them. I'm hoping this viserally brings home to Bo how emotionally invested she is in Dyson, how much it hurts when he turns to someone else, and how much she's been taking advantage of him. Because, for once, (brace yourselves) I agree with The Gardner (though not for the same reasons naturally): Dyson's continued protestations of love for Bo and then immediate qualifications of how Bo loves DL is beginning to make him look like a doormat.

It's OK, show. He can profess his love without the noble caveat of Bo's affection for DL. We all know Bo loves both of them deeply and in her rampant jealously, Doctor Lauren has never made such a qualifier on Dyson's behalf. I was really pissed when Dyson miserably told Eddie that Bo has a girlfriend because even Bo had accepted that she and the doc broke up BEFORE all that went down at Taft's lab. And Dyson knows this because he went to DL's apartment with Bo and Bo told him then that even she didn't believe she was only "on a break" with DL anymore.

Also, I don't see any reason why anyone should back off just because they know the person they love, loves someone else. Anyone who suggests otherwise does so due to their own insecurities and is only hoping to remove the competition. Suck it up, doccubus. If DL can't hold on to Bo - oh look, she couldn't - then that's her problem, not Dyson's. Bo loves Dyson and everyone knows that. He's got no reason and it's absurd to expect him to "back off" when he's fighting for the love of his life. All's fair, people.

Now, as to the violence. Fae vs Fae violence doesn't discriminate for gender and while Dyson's handling of Selene may have been rough, the fact that she clearly got off on it and that, in the end, he didn't use violence as the final solution offsets (though doesnt excuse) it. Selene owns her own actions (hel-lo empowerment) and their consequences. You impede an alpha Fae hunting for his mate, you're poking the wolf with a stick and eventually, he's gonna bite. Besides, it was Eddie who clocked Selene and, to be fair, she'd kept him in an enchanted sleep for hundreds of years. Excuse? No. Explain? Yes. Sure, he's a sexist (if somewhat entertaining) jackhole whose misogynistic attitude reflects his priveleged position pre-coma. Not every character on a show is going to act wonderful and loverly all the time. There needs to be this kind of a character who behaves like a shit in order to raise stakes and to give something for the heroes to combat. Know who else was a sexist misogynist with a side of sadist to boot? Hecuba Prison's warden. Both she and Eddie eventually got their deserved commupence.

As for Clio, she clocked Dyson first and when he instinctively responded, she played him and clocked him again. That *is* empowerment; she went toe to toe with one of the most powerful Fae and held her own any way she could. In this world, if you draw blood first, then you better be prepared for whatever comes next. You can't want women to fight for themselves and then whinge when their male opponent hits them back. Either they're equals or they ain't. And Clio did just fine.

While Kenzi and Dyson shouted over one another at Hilton Hovel until Trick shouted them down, Dyson yelled at Kenzi "It's not safe out there for you!" I think that got lost in the noise. We've seen the Una Mens. We know this is true. He's not supressing her agency; he's desperately trying to keep her alive when he's not able to be there to protect her from the crazy, scary boogie men of the Fae. Kenzi cannot take on the Una Mens by herself if at all, even with her sparkly fairy dust. She's been feeling left behind and left out for a while now, mostly due to Bo's abandonment of her in favor of DL in S3, and now she's scrambling to stay, in her mind, necessary and relevant. That doesn't mean Kenzi's right and Dyson's wrong just because she doesn't like it. Frankly, it's childish that she wants to rush out and shove herself back on the Faedar to satisfy her own insecurities when there are much more important BFD things going down that need her attention.

Dyson is a fucking alpha. Like it or not, Bo is his missing mate. Doctor Lauren freaking experimented on him after betraying the Fae community he's sworn to protect. Of course he's not going to run to her rescue. Hell, I wouldve traced the call and reported her directly to the Una Mens. Frankly, encouraging her to fend for herself (dare I say, empowering her?) is one of the best things he couldve done for DL given their respective positions. What's he supposed to say? "Sure Doc, I'm dealing with inter-dimensional shifts and a crazy Elemental here, but lemme just drop what I'm doing and run over to pick you up." Gimme a break.

I don't need Dyson to be perfect to be heroic much like I don't need Bo to be perfect to be the same (and she really, really isn't). I need them to be flawed, complex, occasionally failing, characters because then when they make the big move, it's even more of a hero moment. Smack Dyson for what he owns like S2 jackhole tendencies but not for getting the job done when it's his job to do. And without Bo there, that's exactly the situation.

Finally, Ksenia and KHR have been amazing holding this show on target and propelling it forward with more engagement and excitement than we've seen in a long, long time. To say otherwise is, at heart, just sour grapes. Bo isn't off-screen because she's was written out of 2 episodes solely to give them center stage; she's off-screen becuase Anna Silk was on freaking maternity leave and KHR and KS are the second and third leads of the show, respectively. It's their damn ass job to take up the slack and, holy hell, have they done bang up work getting it done.
Nusi Dekker
41. NusiD
Well, I enjoyed the episode, and I liked it much better than the first one. There were a lot of little details and clues put in place, and also, the characters may have all gotten their memories back, but they are still much different without Bo.

That Vex torture scene seemed significant to me, especially when the Una Mens threatened him with that mask. What would that mask do, turn him into stone or something? I noticed when the camera panned over the collection of masks, they all had labels for them. The mask for Vex was called "The Last Mesmer." Then there was one called "Unaligned Succubus." Next to it was a mask labeled "Human Doctor." I find this significant.

Lauren ran because she was labeled a terrorist by the Dark Fae, and also left the Light Fae (and her owner, the Ash) to go to a human who was killing Fae and tried to become one himself. That human and everyone associated with him are now gone, The Morrigan who declared claimed humans terrorists is not currently in power, and there is no Ash at the moment. I think that Lauren does not believe herself to be in as much danger as she was before, but she doesn't know that the Una Mens is after her. It seems that Trick is a bit lackadasical about the presence of the Una Mens. And I didn't know that the Dahl Riatta was so close to the Ash's compound that you could hear the screams of tortured people. Trick's non-reaction to the screams was chilling.

Kenzi is in the throes of addiction. There was a huge pile of unwashed dishes and crap on the sink. Kenzi was wearing a t-shirt! First time I ever saw her in one. She had made a shrine out of Bo's room, but the rest of the house was full of useless trash. Kenzi seems to not be able to think straight. The most important thing for her is finding Bo, and for her the only way to do that is to pretend that she's Fae (someone couldn't tell her to put some skunk cabbage, or whatever that stuff is, on her so she smells like Fae?) so that any decision she makes goes back to getting that jar of fairy ointment. Her need for that ointment goes so far as to make her steal something very important to Bo, something she would never do in her right mind. Kenzi made the cookie dough wrong, so it tasted bad (and Kenzi didn't taste it herself, which was strange). She stole Bo's globe. She left a teen Tamsin alone to go to Massimo, even though she knew that Tamsin was so important to find Bo. With a normal Kenzi, that would not make sense.

So, Bo jumps off the train, and Dyson and Seline get on it at the same time? Are we ever going to see who Bo's father is? Why did he make her sleep and not reveal himself to her yet? WTF?

On a lighter note: I loved this Kenzi-ism: "At this rate, she'll be Betty White by Tuesday!" on Tamsin's growth spurt from 7 to 14 year old i a few hours.
C. H.
42. SmurfFae
First Post!

I liked this episode very much, even more so than the first one. I found it a bit hectic with so much happening upon first viewing. But seeing it a second time i thought the tempo was ok - it was just another very dense + intense epsiode.

I went to the showcase-forum first, but the anti-dyson-pro-doccubuss trolling was a little bit too moronic.

Seriously: The woman-on-man-violence was more extreme than the other way around: Vex being tortured by two women? What a funny codpiece! Endymion placed on the rails and overrun by a train? He had it coming for being an evil chauvinist!
Had these scenes been gender-inversed, armies of doccubuss-shippers whould be suicide-bombing showcase-HQ. Oh the hypocrisy!

Anyway: I think the main reason (from a writer-perspective) Kenzie is stuck walkyrie-sitting is, so they can develop a closer friendship.

Can´t wait for episode 3.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
43. Kiersten
@SmurfFae - Great first post! Welcome!

I've said many times that if the actions made by men on this show that some found so offensive had been done by women, they'd be celebrated and fiercely defended. Hyprocrisy runs deep with some Lost Girl fans, unfortunately.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
45. Kiersten
@NusiD - that made me sad. Dyson and Bo just keep on missing one another either because of The Norn (Freaking Norn!) or because she jumps off the train just as he jumps on. I'm hoping they wind up finally connecting in episode 3, despite it reportedly being Doctor Lauren focused (sigh. do we hafta?) Though if we've gone through all this waiting and wishing and hoping only to have Bo first return to DL even after all the shit she's pulled and after all the effort Dyson's made to find Bo, I am gonna rage, I won't lie.
Nadine Robb
47. cmm
@Kiersten I couldn't agree more with your Trick comment, his schitick of not telling Bo stuff is getting old. Especially since everything he keeps from her, she founds out and usually the result is far worse than what it would of been if he had told her in the first place. Also, Aoife is Bo's mother who is he to keep it from her. As I have stated before I found this episode boring. There was no movement in the plot except that we find out Bo is on the death train. They could of said that and had called it a day. As for the sexist part and the female violence or whatever, they attacked first. They are fae and I should think they aren't the wilting flowers that you see in soaps. That's what I like about the women in this series, they remind me of the female characters' off Xena. They can take a hit and give one back.

@NusiD I disagree that Kenzi is addicted. I think it would be more accurate to say she's desperate. Kenzi's has never been a neat freak and has always been messy from season 1. Its always been Bo that has cleared up. I get that she wants to be fae and maintain that appearance, but, seriously she likes the Jubilee like fireworks? I always imagined her having another power that was more badass. Also, i'm wondering if down the line Kenzi might turn out to be half fae herself and maybe manifest some powers. Last season they trashed fae and humans can't have theory to smithereens when they allowed Lauren to make Taft a cabbit. So, I don't see why half humans developing powers would be that much of a stretch.
Annie Moore
50. drusilla_doll
Looks like Bo and Dyson definitely do reunite, it was his arm in that shot with Bo threatening Cleo. Yay!

No Lauren in the promo even though the ep is focused on her? Huh.

I wonder if whatever the girl had (which made her father lock her up) has been passed to Bo. That milky eye look is definitely new and not natural for her.
Nadine Robb
51. cmm
The trailer looks interesting. Much better than this week's episode. Also, how comes her eyes are white?
Nadine Robb
52. cmm
@drusilla_doll Would you say the milky eye thing has something to do with her father?
Annie Moore
53. drusilla_doll
I get your point @TheGardner about Selene. I would have preferred him to not use aggression to try to make her do what he wanted. However, I am certain that if it had been Bo and Selene had been a man, everyone would have loved it. What it boils down to, in the Fae world, is everyone's power. Rock, paper, scissors, if you will. You never now what you're up against and if they can defeat YOUR power. If it had been Bo, she could have resorted to touching the woman, artificially inflaming her desire and forcing the information/capitulation that way. If it had been Hale, he could have forcibly sung her into submission. Dyson is a wolf, he only has access to powers which make him an exceptional fighter/hunter. Would it have made a difference if he'd pointed a gun at Selene instead? Made it less or more 'bullying'. Either way, any one of them would have been extracting information or getting Selene to do something against her will. Why? Because she's a villain (who keeps prisoners at her mercy for decades) and an obstacle to the quest, which was to rescue Bo.

And I disagree that it was bullying. Did you see Selene's reaction? She was amused, turned on. She was considering ditching Eddy for Dyson. She didn't actually feel all that threatened by his actions, no matter how aggressive he was being. She was even talking as though she would take him as her new pet. Note she wasn't about to do his bidding despite his threats. But while they verbally sparred, he managed to deduce what was going on and to use the gift he was given by the mouthless Fae to make Selene kiss Eddy again and revive him.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
55. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll - I saw that too! And had exactly the same reaction. YAY!
Annie Moore
56. drusilla_doll
@cmm the synopsis implies that the family is haunted. My assumption is that Bo willingly (or unwillingly) becomes possessed by the ghost to lift the curse.
whiskeywhite
57. stacymd2
@Kiersten: I love your comments!
I still don’t see what the BFD is if Dyson/Trick do not tell Bo about the Kenzi kiss/Aife attack. I’d bet Kenzi tells Bo as soon as she sees her. It feels like manufactured drama, because the Bo we have known for three seasons would understand about it all. I still feel the writers did this to make Dyson & Trick look shady which deflects from Lauren’s season 3 and now season 4 actions. Whether they tell her or not, Bo’s agency will be intact.

I found the Una Mens creepy as well. I look forward to getting to know more about them and the Fae. Are the Una Mens Dark or Light Fae? Are they above Dark and Light? I am glad the writers introduced the big bad early. This is so much better than Season three.

KHR and KS shouldered the first two episodes exceptionally well. Both shows were entertaining (to me!). I miss Bo, but I wouldn’t mind seeing more episodes dedicated to Kenzi, Dyson, Hale and Trick. The writers also did a good job with pacing and balancing character screen time in 402. I am actually looking forward to the rest of the season.

The personal, targeted bashing that KHR is getting in forums reminds me of the artificial RS “scandal” over the summer. Certain “fans” are taking their ship worship out of fiction. It’s like they don’t see the actors as people playing a role. All of the actors are friends in real life and AS & ZP are not in a romantic relationship. Only on Lost Girl have I seen people openly bash the actors, with the exception of Bold & the Beautiful.

When Dyson said: “Bo is in love with Lauren, but I still fight for her,”I took it to mean that he has her back, fights at her side and freely helps her when she asks. (All of this he has done since season one.)

Dyson in no way inserted himself into Bo/Lauren’s relationship during Season three. Bo/Lauren broke up because there were problems within their relationship. Lauren stated that she was unhappy—for many reasons—and Bo could not give her what she needed. If Dyson wants to hold a place in his heart for Bo for a 100 or 1,000 years that is his business. It doesn’t affect B/L, nor did it. Dyson was very patient and decent in Season three. He did “let Bo be”.

I think this is what makes Doccubus so angry about the last half of season three. Bo & Lauren broke up because of Bo & Lauren. There is no one, no outside force, no horrible Dyson to blame. They hang on to and repeat ad nauseam: Dyson takes away Bo’s agency; Bo becomes immature and selfish when not with Lauren; Bo is not the hero of LG, the show should be re-named Lost Wolf; Tamsin is awful; etc. This must be easier than admitting that Bo / Lauren were given a fair shot and they didn’t work.

@NusiD: It makes me sad that Vex is the last of the mesmers.

@Kiersten: Thanks for the link!

@cmm: the next episode does look interesting. I think the frosted eyes thing may just be part of the ending of the promo.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
58. Kiersten
@stacymd2 I fear I've reached my limit on certain things this season. We'll have to see what that genearates with future episodes. But when the rabid, unreasonable, often delusional hate branches out into personal attacks on the actors, I am done.
I think this is what makes Doccubus so angry about the last half of season three. Bo & Lauren broke up because of Bo & Lauren. There is no one, no outside force, no horrible Dyson to blame. They hang on to and repeat ad nauseam: Dyson takes away Bo’s agency; Bo becomes immature and selfish when not with Lauren; Bo is not the hero of LG, the show should be re-named Lost Wolf; Tamsin is awful; etc. This must be easier than admitting that Bo/Lauren were given a fair shot and didn’t work.
I think that's it exactly. Part of F/F being given position as the primary relationship in a major series is taking the lumps that come with any relationship - and sometimes that means it doesn't work, both in fiction and in life, no matter how great the love.

Both AS & ZP have said how happy they were that Bo and Doctor Lauren were given the time (i.e. all of season three) to develop that relationship. However I or you may feel about the doccubus union, they definitely played it out fully and treated it very seriously and sincerely. As it turned out, it didn't work and Bo and Doctor Lauren ultimately failed as a couple solely on their own merits with absolutely no influence from Dyson. And that, apparently, is unacceptable.

To some.
whiskeywhite
59. nypinta
I found the scene between Selene and Dyson to be completely reminiscent of the scene between Bo and the human that was at Vex's club and saw the fae girl killed by Ba'al in Faetal Justice. She busted in, used her powers on him, then used violence to get him to tell her what she needed. And in both cases the person both Dyson and Bo were dealing with were sexual predators. The difference is that Bo was going up against a human who are, as we have seen time and again, much weaker than her. So why is it abusive when Dyson used aggression, (which was subduing her, not hitting her), but when Bo did it was seen as justified? The show has issues with serious discrepencies between what is OK and what isn't. Vex is a favorite character yet he's a psychopath and a murder. Dyson fights for humans and is self sacrificing but he's demonized. Trick lies all the time yet he's seen as Bo's trusted mentor. Kenzi is clever and helps everyone out and yet they all take her for granted. But the one time Dyson relies on her in a big way he's a dick for bossing her around. She wouldn't have agreed if he just demanded it. That is not Kenzi. She accepted what he was saying was true and agreed on her own. The episode was an obstacle course with challenges and I don't think anyone acted too far out of their norm. They're reeling after a massive spell and someone they all love is missing in very dangerous times.
whiskeywhite
61. nypinta
The thing is that the writers are uneven with all of the characters and it might be a failing of mine that I like picking it apart. But it makes me sad that I can't do that will all segments of the fandom participating because some people are so entrenched in one ship or the other. I've never been a fan of ships. And shipping wars are the worst. (They still continue between Spuffy and Bangle fans. How long as BtVS been off the air?) And it bothers me that to some extent Showcase and the writers are playing up the shipping wars. They might not be aware of the vitrol that it's bringing out, but fans see it. And it effects my enjoyment of the show that I can't go online and see a set of gifs without spotting in the notes how one character is a douche in that scene. And knowing that the actors themselves are being insulted really bothers me. I know for a fact that KHR and ZP think highly of each other. You can even see it when they're doing panels together. He adores her. So to know "fans" are actively calling for him to be removed from the show just turns my stomach. Do they think Zoie would appreciate that? That she'd be pleased? Because I don't think so. At all.
Nusi Dekker
62. NusiD
Excellent posts, @Kiersten and @nypinta!

The thing is, after this spell, everyone is somehow different, includng Bo. There are still a lot of things that don't make sense to me, and I am waiting to see if the writers do anything about it. One thing that has been bothering me -- that in s3 Hale, when he was still the Ash, apparently orchestrated Vex's capture of Evony and taking over as the Morrigan. What did Hale pay Vex to do that? But then Vex showed up to try and stop Dyson and Hale from getting the compass to find Bo, and Hale had to save them by sirening Vex almost to death. Vex couldn't mesmer Hale to knock himself out but he could do that to Evony? WTF? And now Vex is getting tortured and fed some gross thing by the Una Mens for something Hale contracted him to do, and Hale gets away scot free?

So many dropped balls and dangling threads in s4 so far. I hope the writers can clean things up. I liked the show better when they weren't trying to complicate everything.
whiskeywhite
63. nypinta
Well, we don't really know what the deal was between Hale and Vex. Was it take over as Morrigan or just stop Evony for a while? Vex helping out never made much sense though because he and Evony have played games with each other for centuries, so there is no reason for him to be particularly angered by events from last season. Vex just wanted his club back. He never said anything about being leader. I think that he did on his own and the Una Mens had him because they thought he killed her. (Which I am betting isn't actually against fae rules. Kill a member of the other clan, sure. Kill one of your own, that's an internal matter and not against the Blood Kings laws. At least I thought so. Because Trick wrote the laws to stop the war between the clans, not create peace with all fae.) And I think although the Una Mens are spoken of as being near ominpotent that they probably aren't as all knowing as their reputation makes them out to be and they're doing this inquisition style. "Give us a name and earn mercy." But Vex being so against Hale and Dyson from breaking the spell stemmed from him not wanting to give up his position so even if he recalled that Hale and he had a deal when Hale was acting Ash. I think it says a lot that Vex didn't make Hale just snap his own neck. He wanted to stop them, not kill them, IMO.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
64. Kiersten
Hale yelled at Vex when they were fighting in S4E1 "We had a deal!" so yeah, they cut a deal for Vex to take Evony out and, likely, Hale then wouldnt contest his claim to the Dark Fae throne or something like that. For all we know, it couldve been "stay away from Kenzi" trade. And Vex did put the whammy on Hale during that fight by making him choke Dyson and cover his own mouth so he couldnt siren Vex. But Dyson and Hale broke free of that and once Hale got the upper hand, Vex couldnt recover. I admit, it's a little sloppy, but rewatch their battle and I think it'll track.

Hale gets underestimated a lot, I think, when he is really powerful and a bad ass mofo with that siren song as Vex learned.
Annie Moore
65. drusilla_doll
@Kiersten: Since the Kenzi article/post went down so well and was even retweeted by Ksenia, have you thought about doing one for Dyson? I feel he's oft misunderstood and beset by the rabid Doccunuts who pretty much seem to be painting him with all historical ills which have been perpetuated on women since the beginning of mankind. Is there a way to be a strong, alpha male archetype which complements a strong alpha female archetype without compromising the character? Certain fans seem to be demanding HE be passive, submissive, out of the way, know his place. They want to remove his agency because they feel it threatens Bo's (and all other females on the show) agency. Shouldn't Bo's empowerment be something separate from Dyson's? Must he be weak in order for her to come across as strong? It's a really curious double standard imo, and while I can understand why some may be disgruntled by Dyson remaining true to who he is, and keeping his 2nd lead position in the show, I find it a bit ironic.

That said, I actually agree with you and TheGardner: show, don't tell. I am sick of him saying he loves Bo and not doing anything about it. I am tired of him propping up Doccubus by saying things like 'she has a girlfriend', 'she's in love with Lauren' when they broke up pretty definitively in S3 and he knows that.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
66. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll - there's been discussion to eventually do similar profiles on all the charaters on Lost Girl (including Doctor Lauren though, in order to be fair, I would not write that one.) As in all things, it's just a matter of timing and scheduling. Given how the success of Kenzi's profile, and especially the lovely response from Ksenia Solo herself, you'll probably see more sooner rather than later.

Naturally, the Wolf Man is first on my personal list ;)
Carmen Pinzon
67. bungluna
Doccunuts! I love it.

I feel the writers of the show are weak in the continuity department. I blame this on the head writer, since I assume she would be in charge of keeping the story line bible or whatever it's called. That said, I feel that this show has worked hard to keep all kinds of "isms" at bay.

They have treated Bo's bi-sexuality and Lauren's lesbianism very neutrally, imo. They've had gay couples and partner swapping and all sorts of sexual shenanigans, at least trying to keep the shaming to a minimum.

As for sexism, all the female characters are said to be strong in their own way, even if they are not shown thus, imo. Lauren is smart (?), Kenzi is cleaver, Bo is strong, etc. They fight and hold their own.

So why is it so offensive to some viewers if the males, who have been treated less equitably imo, fight back on an equal footing? I think this is more a product of some viewers' prejudices than the fault of the show.

As for Trick, he keeps hoarding information that could make a lot of the action unnecessary. I still have my doubts about his intentions, even though we are told ad nauseum that he's Bo's mentor and loving grandpa.
whiskeywhite
68. whiskeywhite
Oh my goodness, a deluge of excellent discussion! And, Kiersten, it's SO good to have you back. I knew you were out there somewhere (oh, no! Kiertsen is lost. We have to find her! Oh, she found herself). :-)

@drusilla_doll, your explanation (#32) of what constitutes , shall I say, "not good" argument is excellent! Totally makes sense and I agree 210%.

@nypinta, fascinating information about Asariri, the Hindu oracle. Makes sense, though they have her dressed not as an Indian woman but as the movie version of an Egyptian woman. I mean, why bother getting the cultural stuff correct, right? (Not you, them.) I still would have preferred her to have a mouth (she could still have communicated without moving her mouth) but I know they want to use the special effects. And your argument is strong about her smarts. But images are important -- as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Your discussion of truth telling was also excellent. That's the kind of thoughtful stuff I love from this site.
whiskeywhite
70. whiskeywhite
Speaking of thoughtful, I'm loving the discussion of male violence against women and how it should be portrayed on LG. It's forcing me to examine my own views and refine my arguments which is another reason I love this site.

I totally get, and agree with the argument that to make it acceptable for woman to strike, throttle, stab, attack, whatever, men and not allow men to strike back, even in self defence, is a double standard -- is indeed paternalistic -- which in the long run does a disservice to women as credible images of empowered people, as heros.

But like @TheGardner, I still have my standard human notions that a man putting his hands on a woman is wrong. In fact, I don't think women should use physical violence against men either. The goal of feminism was never to ensure equal opportunity for women to physically abuse men.

The show can't just say, "in the Fae world men and women are equal"
so portraying male violence against women is OK, without regard to the impact this has on the audience. I don't think anybody should use violence, unless there is absolutely no other alternative. US, and US-influenced, media has been increasingly flooded with violence as the solution to all conflict for a long time and we've become enurred to it. So should we be arguing about whether what's good for the goose is also OK for the gander, or should we be arguing that the whole damn flock (gaggle?) needs to stop fighting?

I can hear everybody rolling their eyes, "Oh, Whiskey, how unrealistic!" A discussion for another time might be whether the absence of physical violence would make for boring TV and whether there are alternatives, especially for a show like LG, so heavily based, supposedly, on traditional folk tales (the folk tales of different cultures differ notably depending on cultural values, e.g. regarding violence).

A final reflection -- I hadn't caught that the umbrella fight was supposed to be funny, or an accident. And if I missed it, then others missed it. Which means that what they saw is the male 'hero' striking a woman in a way that didn't seem to be necessary -- a bad message to send, in my view.
Annie Moore
71. drusilla_doll
@kiersten: Oh, that's great to hear! I will look forward to reading them.

@Whiskeywhite: Glad you agree 210% on that point. ;)

I'm actually against violence in all of its forms. Anyone putting their hands on anyone else in a violent way with the intent to harm is wrong. Doesn't matter who's hit or being hit.

However, we are watching an Action/Adventure/Fantasy show where our lead characters are going to constantly be put in dangerous situations which may require violence as an option or even the best option; it's a much more level playing field due to Faeness, as we've seen with characters such as Aife who can literally make thrall armies and suicide bombers or just force her thralls to walk around all day clad in just a 'fuck me' thong to please her.

Abusing power, exploiting others, bullying, victimizing people and so on are generally actions which Bo and her gang oppose. It's been refreshing that Lost Girl has been equal opportunity in terms of the perpetrators of those crimes.

@Whiskeywhite: If you get a chance to rewatch Dyson's fight with Cleo, watch her. She's the aggressor. She plays up the 'you hurt me' routine to put him on the back foot and then as soon as he tries to apologise and move in to see if she's okay, she goes for his jugular. The damsel part was a ruse, a clever one. She's meant to be a villain. Just as GT's snake was.

ETA: One of the reasons I really loved the new version of BSG was how gender-blind it was in depicting their society/military etc. Roslin leads the civilian government, Adama the military. The Colonial Fleet had co-ed barracks, bathrooms. Women went toe to toe with the men, occupied the same types of jobs from flight-deck grunt to fighter pilot jock to marine in the front-lines. It was refreshing to see and if Kara Thrace punched someone and she got punched back? I didn't cringe at what kind of message it sent.

It's sad that we still have to be mindful of the perception of violence in our society, but the only way to combat it is to remind people of what is acceptable and what isn't. Ugh, don't even get me started on rape culture stuff and how issues of consent are largely ignored on the show for obvious reasons.
whiskeywhite
72. nypinta
That's the thing though, they don't show show male on women violence as often as woman on male, so they don't try to pass it off as equal. But it's ridiculous (from a story angle) to consistently portray the women in faedom as just as stong as the men yet never ever have a man get physical with one of them. Just before the scene with Cleo and the umbrella Dyson rips a safe door off it's hinges. Dude's strong. He's also punched his way out of a walk in freezer. Yet when Cleo attacks Eddie (who as far as Dyson knows at the time is the only person that can lead him to Bo) and she tries to choke him, Dyson pulls her off he grabs for the umbrells, the items she was just using to choke another fae, they are struggling for with equal force which means she is just as strong as he is, and it whacks her in the nose. He immediately is concerned because she got hit in the face and she uses that to attack him. So she attacks two men, he defends first his guide then himself. In fact in the three other seasons I don't recall him ever hitting any other female fae ever. Even when he and Tamsin are boxing it's Tamsin that hits him despite them both being in boxing gloves and supposed to be sparring. But in his capacity as a cop he has subdued women before and that was all I saw in the scene with him and Selene, which I posted about above. Yet Bo has punched, kicked, chi sucked, stabbed, and killed quite a few men. She's so known for violence that at her birthday party everyone got her knives and in the episode where they all reverted to teenaged selves, when she comes back to herself both Lauren and Kenzi are show watching (and enjoying) her kicking ass on a couple of male fae. So it's weird that everyone is so focused on one instance where Dyson may (or may not have, depending on how you saw the scene) actually hit another fae who was a woman.
Katherine Bloom
73. lsbloom
Kara Thrace FTW!

Dyson mainly restrains. For me that's all the "choking" was, the grabbing the umbrella, grabbing Kenzi's arm when she repeatedly smacks him, grabbing the waitress's arms when she scratched him in Mirror, Mirror. For what it's worth, he wasn't choking her, she could talk just fine. He was holding her by the neck, which served the purpose of keeping her from fighting him in a way that could get her hurt and keeping her from kissing him, thereby using her power on him. It's a pretty standard standoff position for him--against both male and female fae and he's been doing it since season 1.

Where was the outrage when he killed FauxKenzi last year? He broke a girl's neck? Oh yeah, bad guy, stole Kenzi, attacked him. Cleo fits all those bills. I think Eddy was such a chauvanist because of a) the sleeping beauty fairytale tie-in and b) to show how out of touch he was having been asleep for so long--old fashioned diction, old fashioned attitudes. New fashioned death via train--shouldn't they have all have been able to *hear* the train coming? I really didn't get the elemental powers of Cleo at all.
whiskeywhite
75. nypinta
Cleo did hear the train coming. That's why she goaded him into stepping on the tracks. I think it was supposed to be another fae train, therefore not subject to the same laws of physics as normal trains and make the same noises. She, as an elemental, could hear it. Eddie, as aparantly not as good as his reputation, couldn't. So squish! Poor Eddie. Although he did have seriously outdated attitudes, I still like him. He was amusing.
whiskeywhite
81. whiskeywhite
I must say I found Eddie boring. Much like Roman Bacchus. Nothing new or interesting. I'd almost say give me a insides-sucking Japanese Fae any time, except they seem to be hard to hold a conversation with.

Had an interesting (to me) experience. I thought I would post my comments about Hale on the LG Facebook page in case TPTB actually read that site. What do I get back? Anti-Dyson drivel. Made one response (less for my thoughtful respondant than for TPTB), and then took my own advice and didn't engage further. Gotta say I was tempted though.
C. H.
83. SmurfFae
I was under the impression that somehow the memory-loss-spell used Kenzi to fill the void that was left by Bo.
The main indication for this is (in episode 4.01) Kenzi calling Trick "Gramps", which only Bo used to do.
Also: Aife calling Kenzi "the talented detective" (while Kenzi called herself in previous seasons "the assistant". But it could be explained, that by Bo vanishing Kenzi was automatically promoted...)
And: Kenzi posing in Bo's kimono invoked this association. (But also Lauren did once wear it, so this theory could very well be BS.)
Well, it was just a thought that occurred to me. The main reason against this theory is: the writers rarely do subtle.
But if it were the case it could explain part of the attraction between Denzi. For now I file this under: idle speculation. I just thought Kenzi adressing Trick as 'gramps' was weird.

If I had a gripe with the first two epsiodes it would probably be: Sunflowers don´t have an odor. (Learned it from 'Samurai Champloo'.)
(If you missed it: Hale told Kenzi in 4.01 she smells like them. Gives her a bunch in 4.02 and she promptly sniffs them.)
AArrg! Writers do your homework! Suspension of disbelief totally ruined.
J/K.

I sooo loved the guest stars. The exchange between Dyson and Selene ("Two words: Na-ah!") and Eddie's whole speach/mannerism WAS amusing. Now I have to watch 4.01 again, the exchange between Kenzi and the Amphisbaena gets better every time.
whiskeywhite
84. whiskeywhite
Forgot to say earlier, Welcome @SmurfFae. I see you have lots to contribute -- who knew that sunflowers don't smell? You did! That's the kind of attention to detail of a true Faenatic.
whiskeywhite
86. nypinta
Did the comment numbers jump or is that just me?

I just wanted to say that I understand that seeing male on female violence bothers some people. But for me that scene in context with the rest of the show is why I am not as bothered by it as some might be. But it's also the way violence has been depicted on this show since the very beginning that makes me feel like too many are crying wolf (ha) just because this time it's Dyson that is involved. Imagine if this episode were reverse and it was Bo that was tracking down Dyson. He's missing and the only person that she thinks can track him is an outdated elemental by the name of Eddy because Tamsin is uselss. Bo would tell Kenzi to watch Tamsin, because Bo tells Kenzi what to do all the time. But I guess that's OK. Then she and Hale go to the beauty saloon and hilariously all the women want Hale because of the ointment the oracle used on him. Bo yanks the safe door off the hinges and sees Selene with Eddie and it's clear she is not going to wake him up. Bo would basically have done the same thing Dyson did. She'd whammy the nymph instead of using a spray. Only difference. She gets Eddie to the railyard and Bo tells Hale he should talk to Kenzi because she'd want Kenzi to be happy too. Then Clio attacks. Does anyone think Bo wouldn't do the same as Dyson? Except maybe when the umbrella hits her in the face and she tries to cry about it Bo would just roll her eyes and call her a baby.

I looked back just to be sure and was a little surprised that in the first 4 episodes alone Bo killed or was directly responsible for 10 people being dead. In the first episode she killed 3 men, 1 human and 2 definitely male fae. So it's with that back drop that we are dealing with on this show that I'm just still brain straining to understand the sudden outrage.

SmurfFae, that is how I understood the spell as well. That Kenzi just slipped into the role that Bo played in many ways. Because I had the same reaction to the "Gramps" thing.

I didn't know that about sunflowers. I wonder if the shop Hale frequents puts perfume on them and that is actually what Kenzi smells like to him because she uses the same kind. hahahahaha.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
87. Kiersten
Yes, the comment numbers have been skipping, one or two here and there and then a larger jump at 75. Dunno why. Could be ppl posting and deleting or just a glitch
C. H.
88. SmurfFae
Oh, and concerning the Kenzi-takes-Bo's-place-theory: there was this (ep. 4.01, pre-Tango) scene where Kenzi remarks full of confidence: "I´ll have you know, that I have seduced many a rich dork before" (looks confused for a second, introspecting) "I think."
Kiersten Hallie Krum
91. Kiersten
If you're making comments and not seeing them post, please let us know. I'm getting email alerts of new comments posted only to come here and find nothing new, so clearly there are ghosts in the machine this week.

Thanks!
Annie Moore
92. drusilla_doll
Yeah, I was wondering about that. Woke up to a ton of notifications but not that many showing up on this page. Weird to have that many skipping numbers.
whiskeywhite
93. JDKnight
People forget that Kenzi is still very young - when she was going out with Nate she was only 21 I agree that she is probably Fae and does not know it - her power to make people love her and the way she persuaded the Morrigan to let Nate off the hook and how she avoided being killed suggests so. The 'red headed bitch' who impersonated her told her that she was Fae and did not revert to her normal self why Dyson killed her - this suggests that they may both be types of Trickster as do her family members. The fact that she can slide a man's wrist watch off his arm without his noticing suggest he is not human. Some types of Trickster become absorbed within the species they adopt and theis might have happened to her or her stepfather may have had something to do with this. The Greve's daughter initially thought she was Fae. She is Russian and so her signature woud be different to that of her Irish friends. She is not interested Hale - she considers him to be only a friend and way too old for her - their main bond is that they are both side kicks - she is more likely to like Vex with whomshe has more in common. I noticed that Cleo is quite similar to Kenzi in character. Kenzi was really patient with baby Tamsin - she did not go mad when she destroyed her essance of nymph .

Odin is also known as the Wanderer - Dyson is a warrior about 1,000 years old and cannot be expected to be politically correct. He does come accross as a little effeminate at times for some reason.

Trick is a sneaky person and is well aware that Kenzi is a thief. She also has free drinks from him for life. The whole gang will always look after her and would be devestated if she died. She has certainly grown up this season but desperately need her Bo ;o)
whiskeywhite
94. Darthfaeder
Damn it I keep forgetting that we have a whole new link to go to now that the new season is done. I was back at the old link from ep # 1 in my favorites and was wondering why the heck everyone was so quite. Oh well I still haven't seen ep # 2 yet so I probably wouldn't be able to contribute that much any ways.
whiskeywhite
95. Darthfaeder
Oops I meant that the new season has started
Carmen Pinzon
96. bungluna
I too read the situationas Kenzi slipping into Bo's place to make the spell work.

Interesting thought that Kenzi is perhaps fae, but for me the concept works better if she's human and remains so. Yes, she will die in a few short decades but her impact on all around her is more impressive if she remains a humanin the Fae world, imo.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
97. Kiersten
I don't believe Kenzi is Fae else why bother with the fairy dust? And I think her humanity is a key aspect to her importance to Bo and to the show. That she now *wishes* she was Fae is key and this season will no doubt show her journey coming to terms with both what drives that desire, the conseqences of what she does to maintain her fairy dust illusion, and ultimately to once again value her humanity though perhaps to finally find it truly at risk.

Yes, I too read Kenzi as filling Bo's place in those ways already mentioned. I also thought this to be a key reason why she and Dyson started locking lips and why Dyson says "this isn't us, is it?" Because he knows it's not them but he's drawn to the space in his life that Bo should be filling. When Dyson and Kenzi are together with Aoife or Hale, they're exactly the same way they've always been. It's only in Hilton Hovel where they get sexy and of course the tango, but everyone is sexy together in an Argentine tango or the dance doesn't work. Otherwise, it's the same banter and affection they've always had together because with or without Bo, that never changes. That's their's alone. So I think that gives even more credence to the idea that the spell put Kenzi in Bo's place and the sexy times with Dyson was a huge part of that too.
Mary Beth House
99. UberFaenatic
I'm puzzled there are folks who think that Kenzi is somehow secretly fae. I can bring up at least two incidences that prove otherwise.

In Original Skin, Woods put up a barrier that could not be penetrated by any fae, which is why only Kenzi (her body being possessed by Dyson at the time) was able to go after the crazy fae inhabiting Lauren's body as she went after Lachlan.

In The Mourning After, Trick needed Kenzi's help to speak with a lightning bird who only talks to human females and cannot be seen by other fae.

So, if they did fae Kenzi's backstory, they'd have to make it some sort of major recessive gene kind of thing.
Mary Beth House
103. UberFaenatic
There were certain parts of this episode that I enjoyed a lot. Dyson talking about the gentle technique he'd have to employ before ripping the door off makes me laugh every time I see it. :)

But there are a few moments that could just go down the memory tube as far as I'm concerned, a few whiskey tango foxtrot moments.

Let's start with a general complaint. I hate it when shows ram something down your throat like you're an idiot. I don't need a character or characters to tell me several times in a single episode that they love someone. I find that extremely offputting. Dyson is much more subtle than that. He could have alluded to his love almost every time he verbalized "the woman I love" *drink!* and then really let loose when he opened his wolf heart to Eddy, even though I found that entire walk and talk to be ridiculous and hamfisted. Why exactly did Eddy need to know all about Dyson and Bo? And why exactly did we have to hear Dyson qualify more than once that Bo has a girlfriend, she's in love with someone else, her heart belongs to another?

The bloody triangle in this episode was about as subtle as a fireworks shop being blown up by a MOAB. And that makes me nervous.

And then...Dyson tells Hale to leave an active investigation to go tell Kenzi he loves her? Really? That couldn't wait until they were done for the day? That was really irksome to me. And weird.

Next on my list...Hale. Who is this guy and what happened to the Hale of Season 1 and 2?? What happened to the guy who was smooth and confident? The guy who told Kenzi she has never been just a friend to him? That sense of self is just completely gone right now except for a few minor moments.

I know some folks here will want to throw tomatoes at me but I actually thought Dyson and Kenzi were pretty hot together...and I ship her with Hale! But after seeing him go so beta male...Kenzi needs someone with more fire. So please bring back the Hale of the first couple of seasons and leave this emo lackluster imposter on the waste bin of history. PS...that scene with Kenzi felt so horrifyingly awkward, I can't begin to talk about it.

Okay and now for Lauren. What ...the... fae? So, let me get this straight. She's on the run for her life after turning on the light and working with Taft, her tricking him and setting Dyson up to take him down notwithstanding ...and she calls Dyson to tell him she's scared so she wants to come home? What?? Yeah that totally makes sense.

Well at least they used the conversation to point out that they are rivals for Bo's affection because that wasn't clear the other 20 times it's mentioned in the episode.

Another huge What the Fae moment for me is Lauren's psuedo surgery on the guy in the diner. Look, I get that she's a doctor and her first instinct is to help those in need. But there was zero...read that NO INDICATION that this guy was not human. It's not like she happened to notice a clan tattoo on his neck or a brand on his arm or something (like she was searching for on Bo in the series premiere). She went from heimliching the guy to jabbing him in the throat because that's exactly what I'd do if I saw someone choking.

The thing is, because they did not give any indication as to why she jumped to the conclusion he was fae, it makes the entire scene suspect, like they were trying to show how awesome and brilliant she was and then of course to set up Crystal's videoing the moment.

Another what the fae. Dude, if I see you ramming a butcher knife into someone's throat, I'm not going to grab my camera. I'm going to call the police after I'm a safe distance away from you.

More craziness. Why did she stick around after throat guy? He can ID her! She's scared and on the run for her life, isn't she? You don't think tales of a random mystery woman who guessed a guy was fae and knew how to deal with it...aka medical knowledge of fae origin...wouldn't be told and wouldn't lead straight to her?

Finally on Lauren...why did she tell Crystal her name? Did she learn nothing from Taft? She trusts WAY too easily, and especially so soon after having her trust violated so profoundly, I find it ridiculous that she'd be so open to a total stranger.

I do have a general thought about everyone though that I'd like your opinions on.

We all know everyone lost their memory. We don't know who took it yet though, although I suspect it was the Wanderer because the crate sizzled and black ooze came out as everyone got their memories about Bo back. Meaning, it ...aka the una mens... got its memory back of the unaligned succubus as well.

But...who's to say that's the only curse that was on them? Bo's gone. Tamsin dies in the truck and disappears until people remember Bo. (I don't think that's fanwank...Dyson had been going to that spot DAILY and he would have smelled her if she had been there before then).

But people are still behaving...wrong. Well to me at least. It's like they've reverted back to their pre-Bo personalities. Or rather, their worst traits are now at the fore. Trick is especially secretive and stern. Hale is much more tentative and whiny. Kenzi is stealing again. Since when does she steal? She hadn't done that since like season 1, and certainly not against Trick! It's like things are still...off kilter.

What if there's still a curse on them all?

Oh and I loved kid Tamsin :) I also thought it was funny that Tamsin ended up in Bo's kimono. lol It must be a "every character has to wear this at some point" kind of thing.

I do have a question about Cleo. Why did she want to stop Hale and Dyson from finding Eddy? I doubt it was just to hide the fact that she's being playing Eddy for 800 years because she didn't seem too bothered when she told Dyson about it.

I'm guessing she's also a dark elemental, thus her association with Vex. But how did he know she was going to help Dyson find Bo?

And what kind of fae were all those blondes attacking Hale at the school?

Okay. Done now.

PS. I now ship #Doctress. ;)
whiskeywhite
105. nypinta
The blondes at the salon were all nymphs, I thought. I could be wrong. As for Kenzi... I suspect that she might have grabbed that thing from Trick before and had it at the hovel, so post spell break she might not be stealing but had some hold over goodies stashed away. Naturally Trick would have out whatever he thought he might need to find Bo which would make sense that she'd have things he needed since they were within reach while she was Bo-less Kenzi. I didn't really appreaciate him calling her "a little thief" she it was revealed she still had the compass. They all went to go get it to break the spell. Of course she would keep it. As for Hale... I can, for now, chalk up his sudden introversion to nerves because there is a big difference between hooking up and being a player (as he was in S1) and telling someone you love them. And I hope that scene in the kitchen was supposed to be awkward because it was. It really was. And I don't understand why Lauren doesn't run either. It would have been better had she seen that he was fae earlier when he was being a jackass to her, so her saving him would have twice the impact. But then she should have given Crystal another fake name and then high tailed it out of there as soon as the video was deleted.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
106. Kiersten
@Uberfantatic - I think that's exactly it, that they're all still not right from the spell. Bo is awake, but she doesnt have her memory back yet except for a stray thought about Kenzi that she doesn't understand. Remember, everyone's been saying to take everything you know about Lost Girl and turn it upside down. I think the effects of the curse are far from over.

That said, Dyson's protestations of love for Bo and his instantaneous qualifiers about her affections for DL were too hamfisted NOT to be triangle fanwanking (though I adored his speech about why he loves Bo.) GOD FORBID he just express his love without acknowledging DL. HEADS WOULD ROLL. The contant need to stroke that faction so much that even Dyson has to give lip service has gone beyond ridiculous. If Eddie had come up with some reason why he couldnt help Dyson find Bo without him sharing his true feelings, like the doorway wouldnt open unless he express raw honesty, then it would at least have relevance. But no.

I think Hale's behavior is yes, the awkwardness of a man in love as opposed to being a confident playa, but again think this is more fallout from the curse. The personalities and behavior are just too radically off NOT to be deliberate. Here's hoping that's revealed soon.

And yes, yes, yes about Doctor Lauren. All of the WTFery mentioned already - yes. Looks like they *still* can't man up and chose a linear character for DL. Quick, we need to remind people of her bad ass Fae doctor skillz! But wait, it's a diner; what can she use to operate? I know, A BUTCHER KNIFE! If I saw that, I'd be dialling 911 so fast, the buttons would break off. That said, it *does* make sense that when a heimlich maneuver doesnt work, an experienced doctor might progress to do a in-field tracheotomy to clear the airway. I mean, did MacGuyver and his ballpoint pens teach us nothing? Still, she still thought at that point that the guy was human in which case NOT WITH A BUTCHER KNIFE.

Now it looks like the writers are cramming in a bromance with DL and D and while I loved when ZP & KHR get to work scenes together and think their scene in S3 at The Dal was gold, this is *not* the way to move that relationship forward.

As for Kenzi, it looked like for some reason Trick had moved the crates he was stacking in Tolkein's Lair in episode 1 over to Hilton Hovel and that's why he was there in the first place. Because the crate with The Wanderer card featuring Bo was suddenly there too for KidTamsin to pick up. That's also how the scepter got to Hilton Hovel, so it's not that Kenzi had stolen it from Tolkein's Lair; rather that Trick had brought those crates to Hilton Hovel for some reason not yet revealed and Kenzi, in her desperation, lifted what looked to be the most valuable piece fromt the stack to go trade with Massimo for more fairy cream.

Ah, Lost Girl. So many plot holes; so few drops left in my vodka bottle.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
107. Kiersten
Let me add that I did really like the moment when DL spontaneously hugs Crystal. She's probably the first person to just do something DL asks of her without hesitating in a long while. I hope Crystal sticks around for a while; however much I don't like her for several reasons, DL needs someone who is solely in her corner, something she's never had with the Fae and never will have with Bo.
Nusi Dekker
109. NusiD
That knife that Lauren used for the tracheostomy was a large steak knife with a point at the end, not a butcher knife. The only unrealistic thing I saw was that she cut a good 3-4 inches when a trach only requires a small hole. That guy had a gaping throat wound, I was hoping that she would suture it closed or something, but we don't see what happened to him after he said "thank you." Did they just leave him laying there? Good thing that cafe is such a greasy spoon that there's never any customers except an occasional Fae. So why would Crystal even need to hire anyone to help unless she's the cook/cashier?

The thing is, all this hate on Lost Girl upsets me. I seem to be the only one here who am actually enjoying the show! Yes, the characters are all acting different, but EA warned us: "Take everything you know about Lost Girl and turn it upside down." It appears that everyone's reality has been reset, and the memory loss was only a small part of that.

As for Dyson saying over and over that Bo is in love with Lauren, it seems that he has forgotten (or maybe it never happened in the current reality?) about his coversation with Lauren at the Dal where she tells him that she and Bo are over, and I got the impression that she meant for good. He knew that Bo needs to move on then, but he reverts back to what Bo told him before the break up? I just can't believe that the writers threw out the canon of the first three seasons because they're incompetent idiots. I, for one, am fascinated with what they are doing with this plotline, holes and all.

Oh, and I don't want Kenzi to be Fae either.
Nusi Dekker
110. NusiD
"As for Kenzi, it looked like for some reason Trick had moved the crates he was stacking in Tolkein's Lair in episode 1 over to Hilton Hovel and that's why he was there in the first place."

I think Trick moved out of his lair under the Dal because the Una Mens had moved upstairs into the bar and were using that space for their interregations. It doesn't make much sense security-wise why he moved all his treasures to the Hovel but maybe in order to find Bo he had to be in Bo's house...or something.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
111. Kiersten
@NusiD - I dont think it's that anyone here hates Lost Girl. This is an awful lot of thought and attention to pay to a show that you hate. What is difficult is to have been given a great (though not flawless) season one with deep mythology, strong characterization, high personal stakes, conflicts, risks, and actions with overall character and plot continuity, and then, over the last 2 seasons, see that become an ever-changing, inconsistent, often absolutely confounding and self-contradictory show. I know I've greeted every season since season one with the hope that this time they'll right the crazy ship and get back to the great Urban Fantasy show they once had. To still get this level of spottiness and inconsistency across the board is increasingly frustrating. As a writer, perhaps I'm too demanding in looking for such things as I'm forced to think of and accommodate them in my own work and so particularly look for them in others, but I don't think so.

That said, as I mentioned earlier, the discepencies in the characters personalities and behaviors, particularly Kenzi, Dyson, and Hale who seem to have gotten the lion's share of the memory wipe/personality reset for some reason, are too obvious & even over-the-top not to be deliberate and thus more than likely (I hope) lingering effects of the curse. Bo and DL's breakup couldnt have happened in the alternate reality b/c there was no Bo for DL to break up with, so it could be argued that Dyson is still caught up in figuring out which of his memories are real and current and which are part of the faux-history. Unfortunately, LG's tendency to reset show history to make DL look better, especially in her relationship with Bo, makes it difficult to give that credence. It'd been nice if the retconning had an organic cause within the show's parameters for a change rather than the usual BTS manipulation to appease a fan base faction. Guess we'll find out soon enough either way.

Thanks for pointing out that it was a steak knife and not a butcher knife. I thought it was a bloody big knife but maybe that was just the impression b/c of how it was used.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
112. Kiersten
@NusiD - oh ,that's good reasoning for why Trick moved out of The Dal, though I thought he'd said they were using The Ash's old palace for interrogations. Again, there's a lot of cross-explanation going on in this episode that doesn't make a lot of sense when cobbled together. It doesnt make sense that if they were using The Ash's place, then how could Trick hear the screams at The Dal, but whatever at this point. Also, if he'd moved into Hilton Hovel, just where did he get to while Kenzi was corralling KidTamsin? Still, I like the idea that he was trying to remove himself from the Una Mens' orbit
Annie Moore
114. drusilla_doll
@NusiD: I've actually been enjoying this season so far. It took some adjusting but over all, I quite like it. It was reading all the hate being spewed on the other boards which made me go back and re-examine the episode.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
115. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll Agreed. I may be nit-picking as per usual but I've overall enjoyed these first 2 episodes more than I have this show in a long time.
C. H.
116. SmurfFae
@whiskeywhite: Thanks a bunch! ;)
@NursiD: When they say "I thougth the set up camp in the ash compound" it could mean they are using the other place the Ash (Hale) used in the Dal...
@UberFaenatic: I had to read your sentence "She's on the run for her life after turning on the light " twice to make sense of it ;) talk about double meaning...
But maybe DL is not stupid for staying put: She doesn´t necessarily know:
-that Hale isn´t Ash anymore and she is without protection (or maybe: owned by someone new according to fae law)
-that there was a smoking gun (figuratively) with her name (literally) on it, that caused the fae to go all witchhunt on the humans
-that there are new kind of big bad in fae-town with her face on a death mask

She could be expecting her old pal Hale to be just a little bit angry for not showing up for work on monday, so she tells Dyson "I want to come home." And she probably doesn´t run after her (excessive) surgery, because
-she first wants to delete the video
-and could very well be at the ends of the earth, quite far away from fae-town (like: Tichuana or Fresno) and consider herself save from persecution

I liked Dysons confession of love. The main reason he made it was to give a description of her heart to Eddie, which he needed for his hunting/tracking (fae-magic, don´t ask - but Eddie was about to give up hunting until D-man fessed up), but when D got in the mood he couldn´t stop, and give romantic advice to his pal Hale.
That was a nice touch for the usually so taciturn Dyson, being caught in the mood and pulling Hale along. Well, Eddie could put it better into words...

Who thought the train-sailor could be a valkyrie serving alongside Tamsin? Her comment "Your eyes are both brown and blue" mirrored Tamsins words from ep. 3.12.

And what does Vex's parasite (incubated in the behind-the-ear-fashion used in ep. 3.03) do? Make him serve the incubator?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
117. Kiersten
Who thought the train-sailor could be a valkyrie serving alongside Tamsin? Her comment "Your eyes are both brown and blue" mirrored Tamsins words from ep. 3.12.

Oohhhhhhh. Good catch, SmurfFae! I knew that line sounded familiar. Given that we know Tamsin was working for The Wanderer and that he's Bo's father and likely responsible for the Bo-knapping, that would track very well.
whiskeywhite
118. whiskeywhite
I'm glad you found us again @Darthfaeder. @UberFaenatic -- so many excellent points that I can't begin to list them all. I think you nailed the "Kenzi isn't Fae" argument with perfect concrete examples. And Kiersten's (and @bungluna's) argument as to why Kenzi should stay human is right on as well.

You too, Kiersten -- so many excellent arguments since you've rejoined. Such as your and @UberFaenatic's speculation that everybody is still off from the spell. As you say: The personalities and behavior are just too radically off NOT to be deliberate. Let's bloody hope that there's actually a plot point to this mess.

Bring back a decisive, adult Hale, please! Did anyone else cringe at the "pointy thing" part of the sex fantasy story at the salon? Really? Is this series written for (or by) 13-year boys? (Actually, the writer of this ep. is a woman).

I promise (I think, I may have my fingers crossed) that this is the last time I will talk about male violence against women in LG. Outstanding list of incidents in which Bo acts agressively, @nypinta. And of course it's partly about Dyson, because he's supposed to be the strong, but principled, man. That's how his character has been written. But for me it's much more about the wider social impact of what is presented on TV (or in movies).

I will use a racism analogy, again. I was watching Tavis Smiley interview black actor Jeffrey Wright last night. Tavis asked Wright about the possible social impact on Blacks of him playing a very evil character, Valentin Narcisse, in "Boardwalk Empire". Wright answered that there's a lot to be learned from evil characters, etc., etc. and Tavis' response was, "But we're just looking for balance, right?" Wright agreed. In other words, because of racism in the wider society, there is concern about the portrayal of blacks as dangerous, violent, etc. in the media because it can feed -- and certainly doesn't challenge -- an already existing mindset in the audience. Of course we should have stories that show black people with the same range of failings, etc. as white people, but it's Tavis' point about balance. Until black characters are ubiquitous, and taken for granted as normal people and heros, there are concerns about negative portrayals (e.g., my concerns about Hale).

So my concern about male violence in LG is that it not feed the existing assumptions that it's OK for men to be violent against women, in fact that it's natural, normal for them. Of course we all cheer for the kickass, take-charge woman s/hero in LG. I would argue that it's in a search for balance and for images of women who not just victims of violence. Ditto when black (and white, to be fair) audiences cheered when Jamie Fox blew up the slave master's plantation house in "Django Unchained". Completely, totally unrealistic (and thus, some would say, not helpful) but speaking to a social need and longing to see Blacks resist and overcome racist oppression.
Annie Moore
122. drusilla_doll
I believe that's why they had Eddy get run over by a train for his stupid arrogance and chauvinism. His views were shown to be ridiculously outdated and he looked like a fool. I'm sure viewers felt a sense of satisfaction seeing him go splat. Clearly that was the writer's intention.
whiskeywhite
123. whiskeywhite
Yes, Kiersten. We are the most critical of the ones we love. I just want LG to be better. And I agree, I don't think Trick has moved into HH. I wonder what happened to that box that Hale brought into The Dal ("your mail") in the webisode. Or are the webisodes supposed to be outside the main story? Speaking of which, is that all we'll see of dear Bruce?

@TheGardner, haven't forgotten you. :-) I agreed with SO many of your points in #37, too many to list. To defend the Tamsin child actors, they were no doubt told to make it as over the top as possible -- they were certainly successful in being annoying. You know that I am willing to give you a tremendous amount of leeway re: your view of Dyson being "douchy". But I don't agree that he is forcing himself on Bo. He told her he loved her in "Ceremony" (which she very much wanted him to do) and then only after she asked "What now?" does he answer, "Nothing" (but I'll wait for you for 100 years. Granted he could have left out the 100 years thing, but he was being truthful. He had promised Bo, "no secrets"). I agree with Kiersten that it's weird that they have him repeating that Bo is in love with Lauren (even though that's true, probably still. But she's in love with him too). But he, and Bo, know that it's over (supposedly, we'll see) with Lauren. So I agree with Kiersten - He's got no reason and it's absurd to expect him to "back off" when he's fighting for the love of his life.

Speaking of Dyson, Warning: another rant coming on. When asked to describe Bo to Mr Boring 13th Century (Eddie), he says she's "Caucasian". 1) LG is a race-neutral world. The only two previous references to race were when Dal waitress Audrey invited Dyson to kiss her "black ass" and when Hale threatened to jam something (I forget what) up The Morrigan's "little white ass" (apparently only asses are racially distinct in LG). So where, all of a sudden, does describing anyone as "Caucasian" come from?

2) "Caucasian" is a pseudo-scientific term that dates back to an oudated and discredited racial classification system from the 1800s in which the world's populations (pardon me while I get my anthropologist on) were divided into three types: 'Caucasoid', 'Negroid' and 'Mongoloid'. "Caucasian" is standard cop-speak, especially in the US where the terms 'black' and 'white' are so politically loaded. It's an attempt to appear to be 'scientific' rather than 'political'. But cops never refer to blacks as "Negroes", and could we really see Dyson describing Hale that way? Dropped the ball there, writers (or, put another way, a lack of sensitivity to anti-racism efforts).
Mary Beth House
124. UberFaenatic
Just to clarify, I had less problem with Dyson explaining why he loved Bo if that in fact was what was needed for Eddy to find her. I did however have a problem with the fact that it was amidst a flurry of other "the woman I love" declarations and Dyson simply does not go on like that about Bo. He's much more reserved. The big explanation to Eddy would have been fine on its own without all the other declarations. It felt weird.

Especially with all the qualifications about Bo and Lauren. Weird.

I also don't understand why he would refer to Lauren as Bo's girlfriend because she is not. Lauren broke things off permanently and was getting toasted at the Dal when she had a great conversation with Dyson about going on in life without Bo. And Dyson knew from Bo at the beginning of Hail, Hale that she had accepted the truth as well.

Which makes Bo fair game, people. There was no reason for Dyson to qualify any of his many, many declarations about how he felt about Bo by bringing up Lauren.

She will always love Lauren and Dyson because that's how she's rigged. She loves with her whole heart. That doesn't mean she's going to end up with one of them or either of them; it just means she will always hold them in her heart.

I refuse to bring up Hale's pointy thing comment because.

As for Lauren and the knife, I don't care what type of knife it was. Guessing he might be fae was still a stab in the dark (heh) since we saw no evidence of her detecting his fae-ness.

I caught the comment by the train maid too...it was very startling...
"Beautiful eyes. Both brown and blue. You're the one."
That seems very prophecy-ish and ties in entirely with Tamsin's bathtub talk.

And speaking of Tamsin. Did you all catch what I said about her too? Dyson who had been at the crash site daily and smelled nothing all the sudden finds her the day Bo wakes up. Which suggests at least that Bo's awareness was tied directly to where Tamsin was or that her being unconcious was tied to Tamsin not being there either.

What do you all think?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
125. Kiersten
@whiskeywhite - he was a cop describing a subject and that usually begins with race and, when he stumbled, Hale said, "like a suspect" to give him a frame in which to describe Bo. Also, the majority of the population does not make a distinction between white and Caucasian, wrong as that may be, which may be backlash from the over-effort to be politically correct. But, as you said, Caucasian was likely used to be politically-correct. I don't recall anyone saying "negroes" so not sure where that came from.

I disagree that LG is a race-neutral world because race is a fundamental aspect of a person's identity and shouldnt be glossed over just because it's potentially a quagmire of politcally correct landmines. I do agree that LG attempts to be label-free (unless you're a heterosexual man and then you're fair game) and that can/may include race. I would say LG is proudly multi-racial and that diversity should be celebrated.

Not all race descriptions are evil; sometimes they're just for descriptions sake with nothing untoward to be ascribe to it, such as when a cop is awkwardly describing the person he seeks to another.
whiskeywhite
129. DarthFaeder
@Uberfae I don't know what to think about Bo's awareness being tied to Tamsin whereabouts but with this writing team you never know right? Who knows maybe Tamsin gets a new smell after every rebirth LOL!? Maybe that is why Dyson couldn't smell her? I don't know but I am not convinced that the team of writers puts a whole lot of thought into things like that.

I don't know about anyone else but the writers are getting beat up in alot of forums and blogs and the way that Dyson is running rough shot
over all the women of LG is the main reason. I think once Bo and Tamsin returns though all that will stop. I know for sure Tamsin isn't about to take any of his shit!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
130. Kiersten
@DarthFaeder - I think the primary confusion that is causing the writers to get beat up about the way that Dyson is running rough shod over all the women is the patently false idea that Dyson is running rough shod over all the women. Because he's not.

Any time he does anything within his alpha, protector character, the hypocritical response is that he's subjugating or running rough shod over the women, which is very rarely true and certainly was not the case in this episode.

If Bo did the exact same things as Dyson did in this episode (and she has) the response on those same forums and boards would be very, very different. We've seen it happen many, many times with this show. Bo regularly tells Kenzi, Hale, Vex, Tamsin, and even Dyson what to do and they do it and the fans applaud and cheer and often smack talk about how she's shot down the wolf and nobody whines about her impeding any of their agency. OK, sometimes Vex whines. But as I said on Twitter a few nights ago, so long as Dyson has his penis and remains on this show, he's going to be "wrong" no matter what he does. To some. And I can't be bothered to entertain such hypocrisy any more.

I'm looking forward to Tamsin's return too. I can't wait to see what's different about this "new" Tamsin and what she does, or doesn't, remember. It seems logical that her scent might have changed since she's been "reborn" and that's why Dyson didnt know KidTamsin at first. Presumably, KidTamsin had whatever latent Tamsin memories she retains restored at the same time as the other's regained their memories. It would make sense that KidTamsin could have been hiding in the woods or maybe in the presumably abandoned Taft's Lair all this while and then was subconsciously driven by her memory restoration back to the place she last saw/knew her partner/friend, Dyson, even if she didn't outwardly know who he was when she saw him.

I'm looking forward to see what happens next on Sunday!
Carmen Pinzon
131. bungluna
Late to the discussion, and most of what I wanted to say has been covered already.

1. The racial description being cop-speak.
2. The Una Mens taking over Hale's offices at the Dahl.
3. Lauren acting like an idiot.

I don't hate Lauren, really. I hate what the show has done with her character. She's super-geek girl, but they don't let her evolve on those merits. The writers have to keep throwing ridiculous revisionist crap at her to turn her into what? Bouren? Lauryson? It irks me that some strenths are perceived as not enough and have to be proped up, and so poorly.

LG filled a void in my viewing needs. I love Urban Fantasy, and frankly haven't seen any done well on tv. The Dresden Files was ok but cancelled too soon. First Blood likewhise. The less said about TrueBlood, the better. Lost Girl started out with a great premise and it's heartbreaking to see that sqandered. Speaking strickly for myself, the show gives me enough crumbs to keep me coming back, but I'm starving and may have to move on to something else if I don't start getting more substancial nourishment from it soon.
Nusi Dekker
132. NusiD
Maybe the spell that made them forget Bo also made them revert back to the people they were before they met Bo. Even though they now remember Bo, all the influence that she had on their lives has been erased. But there seems to be more to it than that.

Take Kenzi and Dyson. Dyson would never, ever have sex with a human, even if it was Kenzi, because he goes by the rules and doesn't break them. Now, he's only off Kenzi because he remembers that he loves Bo and knows that Bo and Kenzi are friends. Still, he acts more like a teenager than a centuries-old Fae. And Kenzi having sex with everyone and being a femme fatale when when the only time she slept with a man in the previous three years was with Nate a few times? Nah, the differences are too great. They definitely have been altered somehow.
Suzanne Metaxas
134. SuzyM
I for one am really tired of the Dyson bashing and the KHR bashing is definitely beyond the belief!

As to Lauren's phone calls they were both to Dyson. It was Dyson's jacket the phone was in on the couch.

I really wish that ZP would publicly tell her fans to cut the crap out.
Mary Beth House
135. UberFaenatic
It wasn't necessarily that Dyson didn't recognize kid Tamsin's scent, because it's clear he did not since he and Kenzi were puzzling whether or not this was Tamsin until she threw a knife at the wall and behaved Tamsin like.

The fact is, he went to the crash site daily and he told Kenzi he didn't pick up anything at all. Which raises the question as to why he went there daily of course, but it could be as hamfisted a reason as to highlight that Tamsin was physically not present until Bo became aware, which on the one hand is neat and on the other hand is like...is that the only way to have made that factoid known?

As for Dyson's behavior, I only have taken issue with his exhuberance in restating to anyone with ear holes how Bo is the woman he loves, which is entirely out of character.

The violence stuff meant zero to me. This is a violent world, and the women on the show are not shrinking violets. With the exclusion of Lauren and Kenzi, Dyson deals almost exclusively with fae women, a lot of whom are quite powerful.

Their gender in fight situations is not on par with real world men "beating up on helpless women" scenarios and frankly it's a bit of a lie for some to use that as an attack against Dyson for being such a brute.

Cleo for instance, came after him. After either he or she (I couldn't tell by the blocking) smacked her in the face, he went over to check on her and she used his chivalry to go for his throat.

And as many have said, no one would have thought twice if it had been Bo in these kinds of confrontations. So I'd like for people to stop with the fauxtroversy and be honest that they just want to rile up tensions against Dyson because they don't like Dyson.

They will never appreciate that he is the second lead after Bo. He is an alpha figure and I get the feeling for some folks, they just resent any sign of male strength at all because misogyny. Or something.
Suzanne Metaxas
136. SuzyM
The problem is most doccunuts are misandrists and practice misandry while they are accusing others of misogyny plain and simple.
whiskeywhite
138. nypinta
I'm still not convinced that Dyson and Kenzi ever went farther than they did in the episode. They both just seemed too hesitant for it to have been something more previously. Same with Kenzi and the idea that she actually slept with anyone in the mean time. I think, because of the spell, she just thinks she did. She thought that was who she was. Everyone seemed to question their roles a bit while under the spell. I do think that if not the spell, then something else must be going on. I doubt that it'll be the rune glass, but it should be a part of it. Maybe Massimo's spell was a dud like Tamsin said, but it might have been a dud with after effects. And the one's that were included in the spell are the ones acting the most off.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
139. Kiersten
Agree. Dont think Dyson and Kenzi slept together. As for the rune glass being part of the puzzle, I like that idea too. Could be that the one Bo trusts most (Dyson) and the one who would never betray her (Kenzi) violated both those things while under the spell while the one she was loved romantically at the time of the rune spell (DL) fell for another woman (Cynthia) while the spell was in place. But there's still a lot of wrinkles to work out to make that happen too especially considering how when Tamsin repeated the terms of the rune glass spell, she mixed up the love and trust aspects. Did the writers mess up and forget their own show history or did Tamsin mess up the spell, perhaps deliberately?
whiskeywhite
142. whiskeywhite
Oh, Kiersten. I can't resist. LG is a world without gender discrimination and gender inequality or oppression. Both women and men hold high political positions and they are shown as equally powerful in many other ways (e.g., as many have said, in fighting). But the gender categories -- 'woman' and 'man' -- are recognized and the words (the labels) are used. It is also a world without discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, without homophobia. The categories of 'gay', 'lesbian', 'bisexual', 'heterosexual', etc. do not exist and the words (labels) are never used.

It is a world without racial discrimination or racism/racial oppression.
(As I was taught more than 40 years ago in Anthro 101, 'races' as separate genetic groups do not exist scientifically. But races absolutely
do exist as socio-political concepts/groupings). In the LG world, people (Fae) of all colours/races hold high political office, are equally respected, etc. One would think then that the categories -- 'black', 'white', 'Asian', etc. -- do not exist, the words (labels) are not used. From what we hear in the series, Hale is not black, Dyson is not white, Donnie, the man who lost his ballet dancer husband, is not Asian. Until 'black' asses and 'white' asses and 'Caucasians' suddenly (and very, very rarely) pop up. Very odd. Are there or are there not recognized racial groups in LG? It is a sign of our times that there is ambiguity and unease around this topic.

If the LG world were proudly multicultural then the differences would be recognized. You can't celebrate diversity until you recognize it. I'll give an example of the difference. Canada is an officially multicultural country. We describe ourselves as a mosaic --- one picture made up of many distinct pieces. The idea is that you do not have to lose your cultural distinctiveness to be an accepted part of the country, and that in fact, the many different colourful pieces are what makes the picture beautiful. (How successful this is in real life is another matter -- we have horrible racial inequality. But this is the official story - the national mythology). The US, on the other hand, describes itself as a "melting pot" or, as the national motto of Trinidad and Tobago so beautifully puts it, "Out of many, one".

The only types of diversity (other than gender) recognized in LG are Fae/human, 'species' of Fae, the distinction between Fae and Under Fae (the latter being despised) and Light vs Dark (where you get to choose your group).

PS, I didn't say that anybody called anybody a 'Negro'. What I was saying is that if you are going to adopt the 'Caucasian/Caucasoid' part of the racial classification system, supposedly to be scientific and not political, why wouldn't you use the other 'scientific' categories as well? Because obviously they are completely unacceptable. So why is 'Caucasian' acceptable? And what is 'politically incorrect' about 'white'?
Suzanne Metaxas
143. SuzyM
@whiskeywhite I believe Caucasian was used as a descriptive verb only. Bo is white skinned and TPTB probably felt Caucasian was a better word to use than white. Since the Morigan is white skinned she would have a lily white ass, the waitress was black skinned so she would have a black ass. These words were used to discribe what was and nothing else. I think people tend to put infrences on words that aren't meant. I am tired of all the egg shells everyone has to walk on to be politically correcct. Actions speak louder that words and I see no actions portrayed that show racial bias or overtones in story plots.
Carmen Pinzon
145. bungluna
@whiskeywhite - being colorblind doesn't work in a descriptive way, imo. If you are describing somebody, you have to use some words to convey skin color, hair color, height, body build (weight), etc. A cop describing a perp is not going to go: pale skin with darkish brown straight hair and brown eyes that turn blue and big boobs. They are going to say: caucasian (since white has such political connotation), brown and brown, 5' 7" (I'm guessing) and approx 130 lbs.

Can you tell that I watch a lot of cop shows?
C. H.
150. SmurfFae
@UberFaenatic: Dyson refering to DL as "Bo's girlfrien" also irked me somewhat but: the relationship wasn´t officially ended onscreen:
The Dyson/DL-chat at the Dal was just as BoLo entered their break-time. (DL wondering how she would ever get over Bo indicated DL was done for good with their relationship, but it was never spoken out.)
Bo mentioned in 3.12, even she didn´t believe it was just a break, but the status of their relationship was never truly confirmed between the two. Things were left sticky in the middle.
So Dyson calling DL Bo's GF is not completely wrong.

Bo obviously has still some feelings for DL and looking at DL's puppy eyes upon remembering Bo, she has probably not gotten over her. So I´m pretty sure when those two reunite (I would guess: the episode after next, since this sunday it seems to be Dyson/Bo-reunion-time) there will be some smooching involved. Sorry.
But I don´t think we´ll see a total revival of BoLo, since it´s been established, that for Bo: monogamy = anorexia (at least for relations with humans).
EA promised a 'season of the triangel'. I´m cautiously optimistic it´s going to be interesting and not too soap-y.
In the past I generally found LostGirl to be best when Bo wasn´t commited to anyone. Kinda like Aife said (in ep 1.12 probably): A 'steady' makes for a boring succubus.

Concerning the dis- and reappearance of Tamsin: We don´t have a real clue how much time has passes beteween seasons, so no idea how long Tamsin was on her own. She could have vanished to find that kiddy shirt (or is this from 3.13 ?) or her scent could have drastically changed (that is very likely. I´m pretty sure a person changes his smell growing up. I guess people start emitting certain pheromones around puberty and don´t kids have a certain smell to make adults treat them affectionately?)
I´m also very partial to the idea, that Tamsin didn´t just reincarnate/corporealise on the spot after dieing. In hinduist/buddhist believe it's common practice to stay some time in the 'spirit world' before reincarnation; this one dude from that big book took three days
to reanimate; so Tamsyn might have downed some mead in walhalla in the mean time.
I´m also a big fan of the theory, posted on this page, that she grew up in an egg.
However, I don´t think it will ever be clarified on the show, so enjoy speculating! ;)
Mary Beth House
158. UberFaenatic
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you @SmurfFae. I think it was ended on screen. Lauren told Bo she needed a break from them and Bo is like sure, whatever you need. But then as she's leaving, the thought occurs to her, what if this is more than just a break? And she asks Lauren, who refuses to answer. Silence is assent on this one, especially given how the doctor goes and gets toasted in order to deal with how to live without Bo in her life.

Bo goes on for days or more telling anyone who will listen to her that it's just a break, etc. but it always felt forced, like she was trying to believe it herself. A case of protesting too much. And finally in Hail, Hale she acknowledges the truth of what she already knew. It was more than "just a break" after all. Lauren never intended to do or say anything more to end things than what she did because it was painful enough as it was.

@Kiersten... I'm torn. I don't know if they did sleep together or not. Vex seemed to think so but then, he's Vex so...you know. lol

Kenzi, when trying to pep talk herself while on the run from George Takei, said something that broke my heart. She referred to herself as a no-friend, no-talent glowstick. And then earlier, she had referenced seducing older guys for money or something to that effect. But it seemed as though she were reciting it. Like that was a part of her backstory to explain her 80 thongs.

Also, she had asked Dyson why he went to the crash site every day at the same time for a month when he keeps finding nothing.

I bring all that up because these are things our people "knew" were true, but at the same time, all of it should be questioned because who knows how much of it was real and how much was implanted?

Were she and Dyson drawn to each other out of the gaping holes in their hearts that they couldn't understand the origin of or were they prompted by phony memories to be drawn together? (I actually liked Dyson and Kenzi, btw because even though their relationship is platonic, there's obviously love. And now we see that without Bo, they at least gave it a shot. And it was hot. I'll shut up now. ;) )

And how long were they really screwed up? Was it really a month or was that an implanted thought too?
whiskeywhite
159. nypinta
I agree that Bo is more interesting when she is on her own. (Or with Ryan. Team Ryan! /... joke.) I was reading a blog post yesterday by a TV writer and in it he pointed out that it's possible for a good writer to be on a bad show and a good show to have bad writers and that most bad shows happen because the premise or the characters are not clear, which is I believe the role of the show runner. As I was reading it I couldn't help but think of Lost Girl. He went on to describe it like an episode of Chopped. If the writers are given a handful of contradictory items, the dish they are going to make is probably not going to be good. I think the original creator of the show had a much more solid idea of who Bo was and what the show was going to be. You can see it in the 8th episode. Bo is more snappy. She's driven by her past. She's baffled and angry by the Fae and what she sees as a ridiculous insistence on standing by their rules even at the cost of one of their own. She's working both sides, by going to both Sid (dark) and Trick (light). Then that episode got shopped around and was bought and then messed with. They wanted it lighter, yet they had to work in that 8th episode. (Honestly, the should have started from scratch and done another 8th episode and gone with their own story, because the tone is jarring.) And in the end the show is basically giving everyone mixed messages. Bo wants to be free to make her own choices, but the fae offer her a chance to not kill people. So she refuses to join them. Right from the first episode this conglomerate story has problems. And with each change in leadership and alteration to the show (like a new show runnner, and sudden adding or cutting of episodes) compounds the problem. Then we get to a new season and we're all hopeful again that *this* time the writers won't screw it up. Except wait! This time the show's lead is on maternaty leave and needs an extra week so the writers have to adjust what they were probably intending to be the opening episode. Does that mean they just push everything back by one episode? Or did it inspire them to go in a completely new direction? We'll never know. However, what I do know is that the characters we have did nothing illogical for their characters in the episode. Dyson tracks. Hale has his back. Kenzi does what she needs despite what the others tell her. Trick digs up information. The circumstances Lauren finds herself in follow logically from the events of last season. It's basically just a bridge episode anyhow. How the characters go from being so far flung to being reunited. So any slamming of characters for their actions is baffling and cleary result of an already ingrained bias against them. There were a few lines of dialogue I could have done without. Hale's "pokey" comment being one of them. Dyson's quailfiers. Trick calling Kenzi a "little thief" when she revealed she had the compass still. But other than a few off moments there is nothing that should have resulted in the comments I have been reading online anywhere. I do think it would have been better if Lauren had made the comment to the fella in the diner about him being of whatever clan in the fae before she sliced open his throat, but I think we are supposed to surmise that she knew who and what he was when she made the cut so huge because she had to access that thing in his throat. I don't really find that everything has "turned on it's head" so much as been slightly altered but going two steps sideways. And because some things can be explained by the after effects of the spell while others feel off enough to make us wonder, I think it's a bit of a fail if TPTB want us to believe something is seriously amiss among the characters.
whiskeywhite
160. nypinta
I agree with UberFaenatic that it was a break up, not a break. But I think one of the effects of the spell is that now both Lauren and Dyson know what it is like to live without Bo and that might have made both of them rethink their positions. That doesn't mean I took Dyson's comment to Eddie to mean he was going to fight for Bo's affection. Although I also think there is no reason why not.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
161. Kiersten
FTR I did not take Dyson's comment to Eddie about fighting for Bo to mean he was referring to, as NYPitA put it, "fight for Bo's affections" either, though, as I said earlier, there ain't nothin' wrong with that either.
C. H.
163. SmurfFae
Well, Dyson called Lauren a 'rival' to her face, which indicates he has certain ambitions. Last season the consensus was something like "let's see in a 100 years", but that was before the break (up). Now that Bo is single(ish) she's probably considered fair game by the wolf.

But since he´s such an honorable good sport, he´ll probably wait until Lauren is back before going into full succubus-wooing-mode (unless Bo develops a sudden appetite. Or gets hurt and needs healing. Or is bored. Than all bets are off.)
whiskeywhite
164. Darthfaeder
Uggg totally went back to read my post #129 from yesterday. Sorry guys it sounds like I was bashing Dyson but that really wasn't my intention. I really like Dyson. He tends to be over protective of the women on the show but that is only cuz he cares so much. I do not believe for a moment that he ran rough shot over Kenzi and Lauren. He was simply looking out for Kenzi and trying to keep her safe, and well someone had to babysit little Tamsin she was only what 8 or 9 when they found her. Would you trust that sassy little Valkyrie at 8 years old to stay home alone? I know I wouldn't!!! As far as Lauren goes well you know Lauren is a big girl and she got herself into the mess that she is in. I am sure that if Dyson could help her then he would, but Bo needs help and well Lauren is gonna have to wait. As far as any violence directed towards Selene or Cleo well they have agenda's that no doubt
are not Dyson friendly. Any violence directed by them towards Dyson should be met with stern disapproval. He doesn't have time to mess with a couple of crazy Fae women who have different agenda's than his.
Annie Moore
165. drusilla_doll
Yeah, I took it more as 'fight on her behalf'. Like he was a willing soldier for whatever cause she took up, and was prepared to die for her, because he loved Bo that much.
whiskeywhite
166. Darthfaeder
Sorry forgot to tell eveyone that Syfy has just put a date on which Lost
Girl will premiere. It will be on January 13th 2014. I live in the central
time zone in the U.S. so it will be monday nights at 9pm for me. Apparently they have a new show called " Bitten " that will come on
after LG so I think I will check that new show out too. Oh and to all the
Being Human fans of which I am that show I believe also starts on Jan 13 at 8pm central time.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
167. Kiersten
It was just announced this morning that Lost Girl, Being Human, and new show Bitten based on the novels by Kelley Armstrong will air back to back from 8-11 PM EST on SyFy Channel beginning Monday January 13, 2014!! It's gonna be a night of wolves!

I'm *so* excited for Bitten! I wrote a little bit about it in this post a few weeks ago if you're interested:
http://ladysmut.com/2013/11/04/forget-the-bloodsuckers-give-me-the-wolf/
whiskeywhite
168. Darthfaeder
Sorry guys it looks like they may have changed the times that Being Human and Lost Girl will be shown. From what it sounds like is that
there maybe a time change so make sure to not assume that LG will
be on at the same time as the last three seasons.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
169. Kiersten
Lost Girl is NOT on at the same time as the last 3 seasons. According to today's press releases, it will be on at 8 PM followed by Being Human at 9 PM which will lead in to Bitten at 10 PM.
Nusi Dekker
170. NusiD
I'm worried about LG being on so early in the US. Last season it was rated MA and they left in the "shit" words and side boob angles because it was on at 10 pm. If they remove all that and re-rate it PG or 14 I will be pissed.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
172. Kiersten
I wouldnt worry about it at the moment. I think this is set up to be a ratings build to get Bitten's first season good numbers. Bitten is a *very* hot show with *lots* of skin to rival even Lost Girl, so I also can understand why it's taking the 10 PM slot for content reasons.

That said, the shows come to Syfy channel from the production team already trimmed for the 42 min U.S. time restrictions (as opposed to the 44 mins filmed for Canada's broadcasts). The channel has nothing to do with what is chosen to be cut, so any content/language changes or removals would be determined by Lost Girl's production team.

Guess we'll see soon enough!
whiskeywhite
173. nypinta
I forgot to mention... Lauren saving the fae in the diner. A lot of times in fairy tales a mortal helps a fae and then that fae does them a favor or grants them a wish in return. I am wondering if like in the tales it will turn out that the fae she saved speaks to someone that has pull and that's how she gets back in. (Because we've seen the pictures. She does. It's either that, she helps defeat the Una Mens and NONE of the fae want them around so they let her stay or she gets desperate and uses Dyson's DNA on herself and they can't keep her away. Please #deargodnotthelastone!) So, that's where I'm putting my money. Saved fae will save the day. Ha. Ok. I'll stop.
Annie Moore
175. drusilla_doll
I don't think that will be enough since the Una Mens are now looking for her, Kenzi and Bo. My guess is that everyone will have to team together to defeat that threat first. Then all will be forgiven. The Una Mens seem to be indiscriminate about whom they torture and kill, so both Fae and Humans are in danger.
Carmen Pinzon
176. bungluna
I would personally rather see WonderLauren help defeat the Una Mens through geekiness. If she's the geek-in-residence, let her be. I still can't fathom why they thought WL had to be turned into an action heroine last season. Ugh!
Suzanne Metaxas
177. SuzyM
Welcome @SmurfFae :) in S2 the Schools Out episode Dyson tells them he can not scent any Fae that hasn't been through purberty ;)

I'm just waiting to see the S4-3 to see what the Dyson Bo connection will be. If they keep dangling their get together I'm going to be very angry :(
whiskeywhite
178. TheGardner
Holy crap so many comments color me surprised, especially considering how flat and boring an episode it was. I don't have much to contribute for this snore fest ep. so just a couple of things and wild speculations:

- Kiersten agreed with me on something, sounds like a good day to buy a lottery ticket...

- Actors are judged on their looks all the time, not saying it's right, but its par for the course.

- I think the acting in this episode was terrible. With Dyson and Hale fighting for worst, D-man was oh so annoying and gets extra points for screen time, but I have to give Hale the edge leaving the ladies tied for third

- Now did Vex sell out Bo to the Una Mens or is anyone thinking a bait and switch might be afoot, whereas Vex will use Bo to get to Lauren? Seems to me Lauren is the greater threat to the than an annoying, immature succubus with daddy issues who won't pick a side.

- I think Dyson is being set up for a fall. LG can be as subtle as an atom bomb so I have to wonder if all of his running around postulating to any and all about his love of Bo will be his undoing. It seems way to obvious not to mean something in the long run.

Anyways just some thoughts, carry on!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
179. Kiersten
I think they're setting Dyson and Kenzi up to take a fall with Bo b/c of hook up while they'd forgotten her. Kenzi will ultimately be forgiven thought thing will be tense for a while but Dyson will be out in the cold again, I'm betting. But then, I'm always expecting Dyson to get screwed over, if not screwed, in his relationship with Bo in favor of other agendas.
Suzanne Metaxas
180. SuzyM
They'd better not be setting Dyson up again. There is only so much I will take. I don't care if there is a triangle but I'm done with the wolf being everyone's whipping boy.
Mary Beth House
181. UberFaenatic
So I'm wondering what one has to do to be a target for the Una Mens.

We saw they want Kenzi, Bo, Lauren...they got to Vex, so he was on their list. There seems to be a female mask that I can't ID and another human terrorist. But I didn't see a Trick mask or Dyson mask or even a Hale mask, and those three worked with those the Una Mens have deemed targets for years. They're allies.

So does that mean they're not targets or that we didn't see the rest of the masks?

And what about Tamsin? She's defied her clan leader and I guess they'd frown on that...and they'd be livid if they knew she joined Team Bo, especially if she chooses to keep Kenzi and Bo and the rest of the team as friends.

I guess I'm just wondering why they're so selective in that they want Bo and her human connections but not her fae ones, which would seem to make more sense if they're trying to root out those who disobey fae law.
Suzanne Metaxas
182. SuzyM
I think you have to break one of the Blood Kings laws to get the Una Mens on your case.
Mary Beth House
183. UberFaenatic
Right but isn't one of the Blood King's laws about fealty?

Dyson and Hale AND Tamsin have all broken faith with their clans in order to provide backup and support to Bo, who they hate above all. They've all provided support for Kenzi, a terrorist.

Even the Blood King himself should be a target to them because he bends the old rules all the time when it suits his needs and personal interests, especially where Bo and Kenzi are concerned.

In fact, that should mean that Trick would be at the top of their hit list for having turned his back on his own law.
Suzanne Metaxas
184. SuzyM
Trick can just rewrite the laws, he doesn't have to bend them. Dyson never broke fealty with his clan, just with the King that broke fealty with his men by coveting one of his mens wife. Also Hale has never broken faith with his clan that I know of.

Dyson has alway kept the laws that I know of, that is why if you remember he had to take Bo with him when he had to question the Banshee on Fae Day. I know La Shoshane :)
Mary Beth House
185. UberFaenatic
No I mean all of them by their association and support and relationship with Bo and Kenzi have by definition defied the laws because they're consorting with the one who refuses to submit and her human terrorist pet.

La-what-now? ;)
whiskeywhite
186. nypinta
I have questions about how the Una Mens work as well. I think I said it here but I wondered if the Una Mens even realize that Trick is the Blood King since he kept it a secret. And since he isn't on their radar I'm not sure if Vex would have said anything when he was with them. (BTW, I know that Vex worked with Team Badass but why in the Hell would anyone tell Vex anything like that? Trick kept it secret for a reason. Telling a dark fae that is a temporary ally doesn't seem the best way to keep it secret.) But like I said before I don't think they are as omnipotent as reported and do things Inquisition style. So right now the ones on their radar are the most notorious for having done things that caused chaos in the fae community. Lauren is probably on the list not for the events at Taft's as much as they might consider her being there as if she had revealed fae to humans as well as just because she's a human and now labled as a terrorist. (But there is no way that Lauren and Kenzi are the only humans in all of Faetown that work for the fae and thus considered terrorist.) The funny thing is that the wording of the minisodes makes it sound like the Una Mens have taken it upon themselves to be the upholders of the Blood King's law. So what if all of faedom rejected their authority? I don't think Trick wrote the laws and included them as the enforcers of it. Also, the show hasn't really made it clear what all of the laws actually are. Is Bo being unalligned actually against fae law? Because if it was they would have just shoved her in Hecuba prison the moment she claimed humans as her clan instead of the Light or Dark. So if being unalligned isn't illegal then Dyson, Hale, and Trick associating with her also isn't against the laws. It was just tricky politically.
Nusi Dekker
187. NusiD
@UberFaenatic "And what about Tamsin? She's defied her clan leader and I guess they'd frown on that...and they'd be livid if they knew she joined Team Bo, especially if she chooses to keep Kenzi and Bo and the rest of the team as friends."

I think that Tamsin did get kicked out of Vahalla or wherever Bo's dad hangs out. It appears he just let her die in the truck when he could have whisked her back to his realm. Though if Dyson keeps going back to the spot where the truck was (I assume it was towed away), that means she was not in the truck after the crash. So she must have been spirited back to the other realm then placed back in the area of the crash when Dyson got his memory of Bo back. The Wanderer made sure that Dyson found the young Tamsin and no one else. So is Tamsin now on her own and no longer a Valkyrie? Or is she still somehow under the Wanderer's control? Hmm...since Linda Hamilton is returning I guess it's probably the latter...
Katherine Bloom
188. lsbloom
I don't think The Wanderer could change Tamsin's species. She's still a Valkyrie. Whether she died in the truck or he resurrected her is still up in the air for me.

I'm partly intrigued with what the Blood Laws are. But I kinda thought they self enforced, like Dyson *couldn't* use violence, not just wasn't supposed to. What Trick writes is fated, so if he writes you can't do something, you just simply can't do it. But let's think what the fae laws we know are, and which of these could be normal old laws and which are blood laws:
1. Dark and light have their own territories, and you aren't supposed to go into each other's territories, especially to feed
2. When you grow up you have to pick a side
3. No violence on La Shoshain
4. No exposing yourself as fae to humans
5. When you go somewhere new you have to check in at a waystation
6. No feeding on other fae (new for season 3)
7. Humans aren't allowed at Dawnings
8. Light fae cops have to tell the Ash about threats to his life
9. The bounty hunter rule that let him do pretty much anything to recover the fugitive, including lock down the Dal
10. You can call for sanctuary at a waystation
11. Fae Day is the one day Light and dark can comingle
12. No giving humans fae powers (raging fae and school's out, but probably apply to Lauren too)
13. Some rule on selling wood from Bali
14. Humans that know about fae need to be claimed
15. Fae shouldn't use their powers to manipulate or hurt other fae (the adunc, stealing the silkie's pelts, forcibly impregnating prisioners at Hecuba prision, Selene hurting the light fae trying to bring her in)

What else can we remember?
whiskeywhite
189. nypinta
I think the fae feeding off fae thing is only if it's unconsensual. Bo feeds on other fae all the time. And there are too many other fae that feed of other fae for that to be a unilateral no no, I think. And I wonder how many are laws created by the fae after the war ended and how many are the ones Trick wrote. (But he probably put in a provision for fae leaders to make more as needed so they'd count too I guess.)
C. H.
190. SmurfFae
The Una Mens primarily make sure the Blood Laws aren't broken (which
ensure peace between light & dark). And not to reveal fae to the
humans seems to be an important law in general.
Besides that they make sure everyone shows "respect & restraint",
which probably translates to something like: 'The nail that sticks out
gets hammered down.' Which I guess is a carte blanche to 'interview'
anyone you hold dear on the show. There's some potential for conflict
and drama ;)
Choosing between light and dark is mandatory (Evony's words); being
unaligned makes you probably very unpopular with the fae elders, who
constitute the una mens.

I could imagine the una mens are not particularly happy (if they know)
that DL changed a human into fae. I guess an old-fashioned fae would
consider it a heresy.

Trick being the Blood King is not the best kept secret. In season 2 the
Blackthorn (ep. 2.02), the lich (ep. 2.08), a moleman and a few berserkers knew his identity and also Stella in season 3. Also Evony is in the know, when she tells Kenzie that Trick is dead in the sasons 3 finale. I´d be
surprised if the una mens are clueless.
Trick always said his blood magic came at a price. I could imagine the
una mens were one of those downsides for creating the Blood Laws.
Suzanne Metaxas
191. SuzyM
Bo won the right to pick the side she wanted so she broke no Fae laws. The laws are not very well sketched out for us. We learned about them piece meal throughout the seasons.
Carmen Pinzon
192. bungluna
Nothing's spelled out very well in this show. The good is that we can speculate to our hearts' content. The bad is that the writers can waffle all over the place as they ret-con anything for their convenience.
Mary Beth House
193. UberFaenatic
I don't know about that @SuzyM. Remember how Bo was told by the Morrigan that picking a side was mandatory because that's how they maintained order? So I'd say her rebelling is very much breaking some law otherwise there would be a lot of unaligned fae and Bo would not be referred to as "she who refused to choose a side".

As for the laws themselves, clearly Trick's blood forced the peace, but since we know the peace is tentative and that Trick even fears a war could be resparked, the peace itself is not set, only whatever forced it. As for the ones listed, @lsbloom, we've seen pretty much all of them broken so fae are able to disobey the laws, meaning Trick's blood did not serve as a some sort of binding spell to maintain order, but rather guidelines that must be adhered to. Otherwise, there'd be no point of the Una Mens because no one would be able to defy the blood laws.
Suzanne Metaxas
196. SuzyM
Bo did pick a side she pick humans :) She earned the right by combat so they had to honor it. The old law said if you passed trial by combat you were the captain of your fate :)
Mary Beth House
200. UberFaenatic
Right she did. :D But she didn't pick an approved side. I think that because she rebelled and chose an option that wasn't offered, that is one of the key reasons she's on their list. And given how she's always chosen humanity over the fae...they'd hate that too. Each Ash, with the exception of Hale, chided her for her foolish devotion to people over fae.

Heck, I'm just spitballing over here. :)
Annie Moore
213. drusilla_doll
Okay weird. I've received about 10+ notifications over the past 12 hours and no new comments here. What gives?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
214. Kiersten
For some reason, we're getting a LOT of spam comments on the post. So the emails go out that there's a new comment, but by the time any of us click through to the post, the system has already deleted the spam.

I alerted the H&H administrators and they've checked the situation and that looks to be what's happening.
Annie Moore
215. drusilla_doll
Okay, phew. Was just excited to see comments were coming, then disappointed when there was no new discussion. I wondered if it was spam, but it seems more frequent these past few days.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
216. Kiersten
There's been a lot more of it than I've ever experienced before on these last two posts. Dunno why but yeah.

If anyone sees a comment they made that didn't post, please let us know.
Nusi Dekker
217. NusiD
Supposedly the Una Mens was after Vex because he supposedly killed the leader of the Dark Fae, but why isn't Aoife on their hit list? She wants to destroy the entire Fae hierarchy! She killed an Ash and several Fae elders. And in this first episode, she was just walking around like nobody was looking for her. I can't even think about what Trick may have done to her, which is maybe having her chained in his dungeon like Bo was. Anyway, the more I read comments here, the more confused I get from all the contradictions that happened in ep. 2. I can't imagine how the writers are going to dig themselves out of the huge hole they made of this story.
Nusi Dekker
218. NusiD
Hah! Okay, I see my comments weren't the spam! ::whew::
Kiersten Hallie Krum
219. Kiersten
I think the Una Mens are there to bring law and order to Faeville, but given that they havent a clue and are likely working under the same prejudices and elitism as we've seen in the more ancient and ruthless of Fae, they seem to be grabbing whomever doesn't escape their reach. Also, this is delay while we wait for Bo/Anna to return. A lot of things are being set up that I think will begin to be addressed once Bo is back in play. We know from cast and producer interviews that almost the entire season is one long story as opposed to being broken up by the Fae of the Day cases so these situations are being set up to travel through all 13 episodes. That said, this show has always play fast and loose with continuity, character, and plot and has often seemed as though things were thrown against the wall to see what might stick. Sometimes that means we get to watch it slide down in a slime trail when it doesn't.
C. H.
220. SmurfFae
I think the Una Mens aren´t after Aoife, because her transgressions are from 3 years back (2 new Ashes came and went) and their prime objective is (like Trick said) to restore order, so they're dealing first with current misfits, like Vex.

I´m a bit unclear about the whole fae-on-fae feeding (illegal / or not) issue. In ep. 3.02 Bo says is's a big no-no, but she's doing it constantly herself. Also dozens of other fae have fed off Bo, like her luck and admiration.
I guess it depends on what exactly is fed upon. Some kinds of feeding are definitly illegal, like the kind that makes your eyes bleed (ep. 3.02)
And it's been said that eating youth (and thereby ageing a fae) between light and dark fae is forbidden ('Dinner for Fae') but Bo is fair game, since she is unaligned. So I guess this could be a rule enforced by Blood Law.

I guess Bo's kind of feeding is accepted, because it's considered elegant ;) And there are certain laws Bo doesn´t have to follow, because she is unaligned ('Fae Day').

Oh, and Trick once said something along the lines of 'the politics of being unaligned are very complicated' and 'you don't understand how tenuous your place is in our world' to Bo. So it's maybe not 100% illegal to be unaligned, just not recommended. Because any fae can kill you without breaking Blood Law. And a lot of old-fashioned fae will do just that, since they prefer the established two party system.
If fae would consider being unaligned an alternative to the old system, this could lead to chaos, since the Blood Laws wouln't be needed to be followed. Good thing the Una Mens are here to restore order.
whiskeywhite
221. whiskeywhite
One last word on 'race' and then I'll shut up (unless LG gets worse on this front). Terms like 'black' and 'white' are not in fact descriptors. White people are not in fact white but a range of pinky beige colours. Black people are similarly not black, but a (wide) range of shades of brown. And there are lots of people who have skin that is a colour of brown indistinguishable from that of many "Blacks", who are not labelled as Black because they are from India, the Pacific, etc. (and thus receive their own unique racial labels).

For the LG writers to occasionally drop racial labels into the series is inconsistancy (and we know they're never like that). It would be like somebody suddenly calling Bo a bi-sexual. We'd say, "where the f*** did that come from? It's not part of the Fae world."

I, too, don't think that Dyson and Kenzi slept together. As @nypinta says, they seem too hesitant. And after kissing Kenzi, Dyson pulls back and asks, "Since when are we this?" The only clue that they might have been together longer is later when Dyson is proposing "maybe this is as good as it gets." Kenzi tells him, "This, all of it, isn't right. It hasn't been for a while. My heart hurts and I don't know why." But what is the the "this', the "it" to which she is referring? Their relationship or the general emptiness she's feeling -- "I am lonely". We don't know. And I think Vex telling Hale that "your alpha male is doing (Kenzi) right now" is him goading Hale in the midst of their fightto throw him off his game and getting back at Hale for his accusation that Vex loves Kenzi and shouldn't be trying to hurt her.

Loved the observation, @NusiD, that Tamsin's truck must have been towed away. Only a true Faenatic detail freak would be thinking, "where's the truck gone?" :-) Fans like us must be hell to write for.
Mary Beth House
222. UberFaenatic
Okay so should we hold any meaning to the fact that there were film reels on the Una Mens insofar as to gage the last time they've been around?

How long has it been since they've been on the scene and why did they disappear?

I also want to know about the Mesmers. The Una Mens killed them all but Vex. Is that something that just happened or is that what happened the last time or a previous time the Una Mens were around?

I don't expect any solid answers from you all since you don't know either. lol But if any of you have any speculation you want to share, I'm all ears!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
223. Kiersten
@UberFanatic - I'm intrigued by that too, that Vex is the last of his kind. Paul Amos has said we learn a lot more about Vex this season. As a back story hore, I can't wait!
whiskeywhite
224. Jfall
I think the crux of the comments re Dyson are down to the fact that he is busily orchestrating others into inactivity except for himself. This in terms of the plot leaves him the main protagonist. He is not an Alpha, he's always been a second, first to whichever corrupt king he worked for and now to Trick. That doesn't mean he's not a noble warrior with skills just that either Trick or Bo tend to lead rather than him. Last time he took charge they got their asses whupped and Ciara died. Hopefully he'll catch up with Bo and not constantly be one junction behind. I have always imagined at some point we'll find he's the Lost Wolf King of Ruritania or something, he'll reclaim his crown and he'll step up. Why are the bad guys so dim when it comes to finding their targets. Has everyone forgotten who Kenzi is and she lives at the crackshack with Bo. Other than that, the resurrection of the relationship with Lauren follows the writers well honed ability to forget what happened last season. True, Bo didn't get the official word from Lauren, Lauren's attitude in Taft's facility was similar to the one she adopted in Hecuba. Playing a part in a sticky situation. What needs asking is did Lauren actually leave or just go to work on her personal project with Taft defying Hale's weekend curfew and intended going back? She didn't actually sign up for persecuting Fae and stealing their DNA, perhaps a recap of what actually happened might get a more temperate approach from some on here. Bo at that point was still professing love, so still in a holding pattern until words are said. Lauren did leave her cell and necklace however, so it puzzles me how Lauren suddenly has phone contact, did she leave her cell and scribble down all their numbers or is it that photographic memory??? I have no doubt Lauren will have the same reservations as she did when she left but I think it might be unwise to think this will be the end of it, I'm expecting Lauren/Crystal action, Bo/Lauren action, Bo/Dyson action, Bo/Tamsin action and Bo/everything with a pulse action. How many of these will be in episodes of dream/alternative universe/foggy memory land, I don't know but they will be done to stir up the fandom into their usual tizzy. Unless, of course, Bo comes back in time to play Mom to Tamsin which creates a bond that is not sexual but I'm not seeing that. Another question, why was Tamsin putting off dying when she could have come back stronger, I hope they explain that, being a kid for half an hour doesn't seem that bad considering the benefits of being fully charged so to speak. And does Kid Tamsin have brown eyes, is that a Valkyrie thing, brown eyes blue, maybe Bo's half Valkyrie, hohum.
Annie Moore
225. drusilla_doll
/mini rant forming:

Orchestrating? That would seem to imply that Dyson is wilfully cutting everyone with girly bits out of the action because....why? He has some paternalistic agenda?!

From my perspective it's the writers who, for whatever reason, wanted Dyson to go on this journey to reconnect with Bo alone. Perhaps it's to rekindle that side of the triangle, who knows. But it seems fairly clear that they gave Dyson good and genuine reasons to reccommend Kenzi babysit Tamsin (she was a wanted human terrorist and it was unsafe, Tamsin could be another lead etc), Hale to go back and be honest about his feeling for Kenzi (because he's been there himself and lost his own love before he could articulate it and doesn't want his friend to suffer the same) and it's absolutely true that Lauren is in danger from the Fae and needs to stay hidden until they can make her return NOT be a sure death sentence for her. The thought that Dyson is trying to keep the women he knows down is, quite frankly, ludicrous to me. Bo was out for two episodes, so she wasn't able to be the leader of all the action. It still boggles my mind how vehemently opposed people are to Dyson taking the lead temporarily. Heaven forbid a guy get to do something active and heroic on this show. A) Because he's still the 2ND fricking lead, no matter what anyone else claims and B) It's temporary and obviously there was a meta reason for it and C) The writers (okay let's go all in here) clearly have an agenda - to re-ignite the Bo/Dyson point of the triangle. If people don't like any of these reasons? As we say Down Under: tough titties.

/rant over.
Katherine Bloom
228. lsbloom
Humphf.

Episode 1--standard fae of the week case, needed to be centered on a Bo-figure, so Kenzi stood in and took the reins. Dyson and Hale were backup.

Episode 2--investigation case, ie, find Bo, needed to have people who could run around fae town throwing your weight around, so Dyson and Hale as high-ranking light fae detectives took the reins. Kenzi was in charge of the B plot (and had to stay behind so they could do Hale/Kenzi hookup).

Episdoe 3--is purported to be Lauren-heavy.

So let's take off the paranoid, men-make-women-weak glasses, and think about how they are constructing these episodes: they are just running through the non-Anna Silk cast.

However, Dyson is an alpha. He gets the position and the respect from multiple characters throughout the show. From the first time Bo walked into the cop shop and he asked everyone to step out, to his attitude going after Taft. He was in charge of his pack. He was a leader. He got lost along the way when he lost his pack, but with his new one he got it back. Go back and rewatch the "sand in uncomfortable places" conversation with Ciara. But, they've always set Dyson up as the alpha male to Bo's alpha female. And I say to the doccunuts, that you CAN have both simultaneously.
Katherine Bloom
229. lsbloom
PS. JFall, Ciara died because Bo cringed and cowered in the face of the Garuda.
Carmen Pinzon
230. bungluna
I'm still getting a kick out the term "Doccunuts"!

As for the spam, maybe we are getting bombarded by the doccunuts brigade for daring to have a positive discussion of Dyson.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
231. Kiersten
The spam filter is judgment free. It neither knows nor cares what the spam is about, only what dodgy adddress it comes from. Or at least that's how I understand spam. If anyone can ever really understand spam, that is.
Carmen Pinzon
234. bungluna
I should have put in a qualifier to denote a joke. :-)
whiskeywhite
236. nypinta
It'll be interesting to see how they deal with an episode that will be so split. Because we see from the promos that Bo is going to solve her fae monster of the week case by stumbling upon a haunted house. So if it is indeed Lauren heavey, while Bo is helping the household, they're going to being going back and forth a lot between Bo and the house and Lauren dealing with whatever. Either it's the fae that find her, or hashing out her past with Crystal. That's two pretty unrelated things. Hope it isn't too jarring.
Nadine Robb
237. cmm
Sounds like my tv remote is going to have a workout this episode, if it is indeed Lauren heavy. I don't care what they recton with that character I will always despise her. Although, I must say she has more chemistry with Crystal.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
238. Kiersten
@cmm I agree, Crystal and DL are adorable together and had more chemistry in one fully-clothes scene than all of nekkid doccutopia. Wouldnt it be nice if they stopped trying to force Doctor Lauren with Bo and just let her have a relationship that's all hers with someone who is solely on her side? Have to admit, that spontaneous hug DL gave Crystal when she deleted the video just because DL asked spoke volumes to how much DL needs someone like Crystal as her lover/partner.
Katherine Bloom
239. lsbloom
Am I the only one who thinks Crystal is either an incredibly heavy-handed new love interest for Lauren or a highly suspicious plant who is bound to betray Lauren?

(I kinda vote for suspicious, since when have we ever seen Lauren be spontaneously affectionate or actually tell the unprompted truth? She barely told Bo her real name after 3 years and she's just volunteering info to Crystal? It feels like they are setting her up for a fall.)
whiskeywhite
240. whiskeywhite
Speaking of strong fighter women in LG, I was reminded recently of Serena, the gorgeous black woman with the fiery hands who was the first Ash's head of security in "Arachnofaebia". She was one take-no-sh*t woman. And there was the woman boxer, Thrasher (no further comment needed), in "Raging Fae". I checked out the actress who played Thrasher, Angelica Lisk. She's a former top athlete, is a an established stunt coordinator, and was the first woman to be hired as head of security for a major Toronto nightclub.

(I was about to make a point about the proportions of black women characters before the blonde invasion happened under the new regime. But I won't because I promised.) Was there a reason that all of the crazy beauty school students were blonde? I suppose so. But I hesitate to think what it was. And before anybody jumps me for being anti-blonde, some of my closest friends are blondes -- really. :-) In fact, I myself have recently been temporarily blonde and it's growing on me.

If I don't seem to be following along with the flow of the conversation, it's not true. I'm totally enjoying the speculation and analysis. But I can only say, "I agree" or "Excellent point" so many times.
Marie Sullivan
242. Minime
Not Sure if you guys saw this, it's the new Syfy Press Release:

The new supernatural drama Bitten will join Being Human and Lost Girl on Mondays beginning January 13 (Lost Girl at 8/7c, Being Human at 9/8c and Bitten at 10/9c).

Lost Girl at 8?????
Kiersten Hallie Krum
244. Kiersten
@Minime - scroll on up to comment 167 and following.
Marie Sullivan
245. Minime
Ahhh thank you I just got back from a 4 day biz trip so I am just catching up on all the gossip. I plan to rewatch episodes 1 & 2 of season 4 while I do laundry. I am super psyched for Bitten, I have read all the Otherword series books and love them.
Nadine Robb
247. cmm
@Kiersten I agree. The chemistry between them is even better than her and Nadia.

@Isbloom Sadly, you are probably right. It's just said she just can't be with someone who isn't being used to justify doccubus.
Annie Moore
248. drusilla_doll
My predictions for DL tonight: There will be more budding romance between DL and Crystal, but she will weakly resist while being attracted because we can't have her not also professing her love about Bo. Since a recent script spoiler has Dyson gushing about Bo to Cleo, I doubt we're going to see DL jumping in the sack with Crystal, no matter how fun that might be to watch. The ep is called Lovers, Apart. I presume that will resonate through the three story threads - Dyson trying desperate to reunite with Bo, Lauren being apart from Bo and possibly in danger, the ghost haunting the family being separated from her lover or something along those lines.

I think the Fae who DL operated on is going to have reported her to Fae authorities. Someone will be sent to collect her, but probably not the Una Mens yet. DL will act bravely and possibly even show some badass-ness because the writers want to finally move DL from being a weak mousling, jumping at shadows to someone closer to the ridiculous past history they gave her: combat medic/protestor/ wanted fugitive/pipe-bomber. Crystal might get hurt or die, but it's more likely she will help DL escape or fend off attack. If there's going to be a betrayal it might not be until later? Perhaps we find she's beholden to the Una Mens. Although, personally, I would prefer her to just be a kind hearted, sassy human who gets caught in the cross-fire. If she does come to a bad end, DL will be responsible for not fleeing as soon as the choking incident was over. But the writers do seem to consistently have her acting woefully naive or indecisive or just plain stupid - if the plot calls for it. I don't know if it's meant to be an intentional character flaw or just them jerking the character around so that their plot pieces line up correctly. I suspect the latter.

My guess is, though, that the DL arc will leave her on the upswing either because she prevails against the threat or because Crystal becomes a casualty and this galvanises DL to get revenge/go on the offensive. It's been hinted that we're going to see a different side to DL, like we've never seen her before. I presume it will be the more ruthless survivor who made it out of Afghanistan, the Congo etc. While I will probably roll my eyes at this if they go over the top in making her super-duper Rambo!Lauren, it will be a welcome change to the doormat/victim I've become tired of watching.
Marie Sullivan
249. Minime
I think that they are going to (I hope)fill in DL's back story and explain Lauren/Karen to us. I would love to know about her family and if she still has any and to see her become "more human" (read outwardly emotional like the hug scene).
whiskeywhite
250. nypinta
The obvious answer is Lauren has a twin named Karen which is how she could have done all the things they want us to believe she has, because it was all done actually by two people.
Annie Moore
251. drusilla_doll
Secret girlfriend in coma, secret other life as Karen Beattie international terrorist/fugitive and now secret twin? God, I hope that's not the explanation. It sounds like something pulled directly from the Days of Our Lives. LOL.
whiskeywhite
253. nypinta
Where do you think I got the idea from. ;P Other explination: split personality.
Nadine Robb
254. cmm
And the internet explodes with this episode of todays lost girl lol! It's going to be glorious!!!!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
256. Kiersten
Tonight's episode of Lost Girl was SO GOOD!! This show hasn't made me this happy in a lonnnngggg time. No spoilers here, but new discussion post for the episode will be up tomorrow! Stay tuned.
Annie Moore
257. drusilla_doll
So what happened to make the internet explode? Inquiring minds need to know. I've been out all day. Did any of my DL predictions come true? Was there any DyBo?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
258. Kiersten
There was EPIC TEAM BADASS. Seriously. I am in my happy place at the moment and holding off all the dread of it being a dream until next week. Just basking
Nadine Robb
259. cmm
@Drusilla_doll if you really want to know I will tell you. But certain events transpired that will make DyBO fans extremely happy.

@Kiersten that ending was the icing on the cake. I actually laughed at the irony! But I know not to be too happy though.
Annie Moore
261. drusilla_doll
Oh, yay! I can't wait to see it, then. I'm sure everything will be torn apart and turned upside down yet again, but any new Dyson/Bo stuff is good in my book. So the writers are serious? The triangle is on? Not that I want there to be a triangle, but we've had a drought for some time regarding Bo/Dyson stuff.

In the interests of disclosure, I am also leaning very Valkubus at the moment. Mostly because I love Tamsin. She's the kind of character I just enjoy in terms of emotional journeys and struggles.

But wow, I didn't think the writers were ever going to allow more Bo/Dyson stuff. No doubt it will have some catch further down the road...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
262. Kiersten
@cmm - exactly. How does it feel to be spybanged, Doc? Although I do feel bad for her, mostly b/c she shouldve had time to be happy with Crystal for a while.

"They" are already blaming Dyson for not being able to tell that was Doctor Lauren and rushing to her rescue. Never mind that Bo didn't notice either or that they both just came through a grueling ordeal and he particularly probably hasn't slept in days.

Crap. I'm going back to my happy place.
Nadine Robb
263. cmm
To be honest ***spoiler***










I didn't see any evidence of a triangle in this episode. But that is probably gonna change.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
264. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll - THIRTY EIGHT EPISODES we've waited.
Oy.

Bo and Dyson had some really lovely moments that I do not want to spoil for you except to say NONE of them involved Bo feeding from Dyson! She was so freaking happy to see him too. Just tons of awesome win in this ep
Nadine Robb
265. cmm
@Kiersten That last scene is why I laughed so hard LOL! They were basking in all there happiness and she's being kidnapped in the same scene. Its just so ironic. But I did get the impression Crystal regretted doing what she did. As for Dyson being blamed, I could see it coming.
He gets blamed no matter what. Same with Bo when it's convienient.
whiskeywhite
266. Stacymd2
OMG! doccubus is exploding. I will not be able to watch until tomorrow, but I am on pins and needles. No one has gotten into why. Dyson do something? I thought this episode was supposed to be Lauren heavy. I hope Bo is OK.
Annie Moore
267. drusilla_doll
Lauren was spybanged?! Colour me amused as hell that she voluntarily banged someone other than Bo so soon after the break up, but wow, are you saying it wasn't genuine? Can this gal not catch a break in terms of trusting people?
Nadine Robb
268. cmm
@Stacymd2 Dyson did nothing except go to Bo, that is the issue. You have to watch lol. This episode is fairly even between screentime for both stories.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
269. Kiersten
@stacymd2 - the ep was all Dyson, Bo, Clio and Lauren and Crystal. Bo and Dyson were seriously in sync. I'm not going to say they were together, but they were emoting all over one another and in a really good way. It's unclear how much Bo remembers about Lauren at the moment, though she does mention her early and clearly knows about whom she talking. But Bo, while totally knackered, is OK (though sporting a lot of memory loss as to where she's been all this while) and is very happy to be with Dyson and headed home to Hilton Hovel

Dyson prioritizes Bo over some random stranger on the side of the road, or so he thinks, who happens to be Lauren in trouble (again). Neither of them have any way of knowing that it's Doctor Lauren. Bo wonders half-heartedly if they should stop and help the people in the supposedly broke-down car but doesnt protest when Dyson insists he has to get her home and that someone else can help the strangers with their flat tire. Bo silently agrees to that plan esp since she can barely stay conscious at the moment and really wants to get back to Kenzi.

Naturally, this means that Dyson is king of all douches and is lying to Bo and preventing her from reuniting with Doctor Lauren, her true love.

Gimme a frickin' break.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
270. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll - yep, that's it exactly. She genuinely and happily got sexy with the waitress and had a really good time doing it. Crystal appears to, at the end of the ep, turn "Karen" over to someone, it's not yet clear who. Yeah, I kinda feel sorry for her too in that she trusted a human again and got royally boned for it. In both ways. The lady needs to get some basic human comfort without it coming back to bite her in the ass. There's an aspect of that repeated scenario that's beginning to strain the confines of belief, but for now, it means she has to be rescued...again. Maybe this time she'll surprise everyone and rescue herself for a change.
whiskeywhite
271. Stacymd2
Oooooooh, so that is why they are calling him a d-bag. They are crowing that Dyson is so "unlike able" and is "king of d-bags" for not doing something that Bo wanted to do at the end of the episode . "Why did Lauren save him from Taft," bla, bla, bla...I was nervous because I fear that TPTB will have Dyson do something to hurt Bo, making Lauren good. I can't wait to see this episode tomorrow!
Mary Beth House
272. UberFaenatic
Even though two of the three things I watch Lost Girl for were missing, I found this to be a very enjoyable episode.

I do have some questions and thoughts though. When are we getting a thread to talk about it or should I just post here? lol
whiskeywhite
273. Stacymd2
@Kirsten: If Bo, Kenzi, Dyson or whoever saves Lauren will that not take away her agency? We cannot have that! Super, Scary Smart, Wonder Lauren, MD can save herself.
whiskeywhite
274. Stacymd2
@UberFaenatic: I think there will be a new post on the H&H homepage tomorrow for Lost Girl. I think tomorrow's comments will be goooooooooooooooood!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
275. Kiersten
Yes, @UberFanatic and everyone else, there will be a new discussion post up on H&H tomorrow sometime. I'll post the link here when it goes live.

@Stacymd2 - yes, but apparently those "rules" change when it involves Doctor Lauren. Surprise!

Bo did not in any way shape or form know that it was Doctor Lauren in the car or that anyone in the car was in bodily danger. Outside of her nature's instinctive reaction to help any stranger in need, she had no desire to stop and was grateful that Dyson kept driving. OF COURSE, had they know, even if only Bo had seen DL and said something, Dyson wouldve immediately turned around to help her without Bo needing to ask AS HE'S DONE IT BEFORE. Honestly, the selective, asinine memory of some people regarding him is beyond ridiculous sometimes.

Anyway, come back in the morning for a fresh discussion thread on episode three
Mary Beth House
276. UberFaenatic
Well if we're typing it here... :)

Things I loved seeing....

BO!!!!! Good grief I missed her. I think a big reason why I loved this episode more than the previous ones is getting Bo back.

The Morrigan!!! She's also back...and all melty as ever. And is she living in Lauren's apartment? That looked like her plant wall...

Team BADASS. How long has it been since we've had a good Dyson/Bo team up, kick butt episode?

I'm also happy for DyBo fans who I'm sure enjoyed the graveyard wedding scene. ;) It looks like Dyson wished he weren't speaking on behalf of another. That's all I'm gonna say.

Lauren getting spybanged. I'm sorry, but I thought that was great. Now let's see if Crystal really is sorry for what she did and see if she tries to get Lauren to forgive her and how that goes down.

I loved watching Bo beat the crap out of Cleo for trying to betray her.

Things I didn't like...

No Kenzi. No Tamsin. :(

I hope they're not setting things up so that Lauren can be rescued by Bo because that would be hugely cliche. What I'd like to see is Crystal maybe genuinely feeling bad about her role in getting Lauren/Karen and helping her out of the mess.

My Questions...

Did Bo kill Cleo or just knock her silly? She didn't look like she took all that much chi.

I didn't know the Druid was human. And he has a thing for the Morrigan. He says he helped Tamsin get rid of Bo so I'm starting to think that @drusilla_doll might be on to something when she said that maybe the potion did work after all. Either that or the Wanderer has pretty interesting timing.

Bo and Dyson have no memory of the train. Does that mean that Kenzi and Tamsin will forget the card too?

Also, why don't they remember the train?

And does that mean the Wanderer will try again?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
277. Kiersten
I dont think Clio is dead. Bo said she didnt deserve to die w/a smile on her face, so I think they just left her there. Dyson wasnt the only one wishing that was a real wedding for them. When she first came back to herself, Bo looked pretty freaking happy at the idea that they might have gotten hitched there too. Nothing shows how much Dyson is NOT a douche then the fact that he didnt take advantage of her confusion and claim they were in fact married. Imma gonna be pissed if they retcon that too or throw in some "you were married by proxy" to make him the evil manipulative patriarch figure again.

Yeah, I think The Wanaderer will try again. It does look like Massimo actively made the potion not work so as to get rid of Bo on The Morrigan's behalf. Maybe that's why he's been juicing Kenzi too.

I missed Kenzi and Hale and Tamsin too, but there was so much going on in this ep that made me happy, I'll accept that price. Besides, Kenzi's been working overtime for 2 straight eps and deserves a break.
Mary Beth House
278. UberFaenatic
@Kiersten...but would Bo have recognized Lauren even if she saw her?

She is barely remembering names. She recognized Dyson and she's starting to remember Kenzi more because she recognized Julia's character traits as being like Kenzi.

Also...had Bo seen that Chumby before? When she's talking to her in her memories, she said, "You!" almost as if she recognized her.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
279. Kiersten
Yeah, I dont know how/why she recognized Chumby (that's her name?!) Suspect we'll find out later. And you make a good point - with the red hair and the new clothes, I doubt Bo *would* have recognized Doctor Lauren even if she had seen her. But she would have recognized a person in need and that's usually all it take for Bo to act.

She's remembered Kenz in one way or another from the start and that knock on her head reminded her of what Doctor Lauren had done in Taft's lab and how The Dal had blown up around her "all that glass" and by the end of the ep, enough of her memory is back to mention even Hale and Trick. Plus, she knew who and what Vex was and that he was back to not being an ally as soon as Clio namechecked him. So yeah, her memory isnt 100% but its proably 90% at this point...except for the train
Mary Beth House
280. UberFaenatic
I liked Crystal and Lauren together. I think it'd be interesting if Crystal is in fact in the same kind of situation Lauren was...meaning, she's kind of forced into getting to Lauren because she's owned by someone else. Not in as a literal sense as the Ash owning Lauren...but if she's paying off a debt or something...
Mary Beth House
281. UberFaenatic
Also, I thought Chumby was what type of fae she was... Remember what Dyson said to Cleo? (or Clio, not sure how to spell either that or Jumbi/Chumbi/Chumby) lol

"Last time I checked, Chumby's were elementals too."
Kiersten Hallie Krum
282. Kiersten
I dont believe Crystal betrayed DL to the Fae. The caller was looking to report on "Karen". Crystal was too quick to want to sell the video for cash. I think she set her boyfriend or girlfriend on figuring out who DL was hiding from and that person unearthed "Karen". I think Crystal and her pal want to turn DL in to the humans, collect the money, and buy their little farm. Maybe she does owe someone as well, but I really don't believe this involves either the Una Mens or the Fae at large.
Annie Moore
283. drusilla_doll
I don't know the details of this episode, but what I've read so far has me chuckling and fist-pumping. Yes, it could change on a dime, but for now, Bo is most centred and comfortable with Dyson and that's fine by me. Lauren is lonely, and despite knowing about Bo, now, she's ready to move on and be truly intimate with someone else (not that the latter half of S3 didn't already indicate her intention to break up with Bo). Pity her choice is not the best...
Mary Beth House
284. UberFaenatic
No I don't think it's fae related either. I was thinking more like mafia or something where she owes a debt and has to pay it back and saw Lauren as an easy fix but maybe now regrets it.
Nadine Robb
285. cmm
What gets me is that people were so up in arms last season that Bo cheated on DL. When she was made to kiss Tasmin when Trick was using that contraption. But DL jumps into the sack and betrays Bo and there's no reaction other than what Dyson does.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
286. Kiersten
@drusilla_doll honestly, Bo hasnt looked that relaxed and happy in a long time and she's *never* looked that content with DL. It was lovely to see. No pressure. No demands. No rules. No expectations. Just "I missed you." "I missed you too."

FEELINGS
Mary Beth House
287. UberFaenatic
Bo spent 10 years killing humans. No matter how she felt about Lauren or even still feels about her, she will always treat her with kid gloves and always be wary of her succubus nature because she doesn't want to hurt her.

In other words, she has to stop being what makes her so special.

There were some cute and sweet moments between them but even then things were strained. Think back to the episode where she was injured and couldn't heal. She had just had a ton of sex with Lauren, and she still wanted more because she was starving. Lauren on the other hand was exhausted, oversexed and wanting to get back to her other priorities. The line that put it into focus was, "I thought I was your to do list."

Bo meant it. She needed more and wanted it to come from Lauren, who simply can't give her what she needs. And then Lauren of course was always strained because she wasn't getting any of her needs met outside of the bedroom.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
288. Kiersten
@cmm well, DL did NOT betray Bo with Crystal because they are no longer in a relationship and havent been for a while. I agree that it shows in DLs mind at least, while at first she resisted Crystal for Reasons she didnt voice, she ultimately felt she was free enough to start a new relationship with her. Interesting that it was after she spoke with Dyson and told him to "take care of her" meaning Bo, that DL started to be more open to Crystal's advances and ultimately made the conscious decicison to go to her room and sleep with her. It seems clear that in DL's mind at least, have definitively broken up.
Nadine Robb
289. cmm
I agree with your assessment of it being in her head. But from the second episode it was implied that at least in DL's mind her and Bo are still a thing, which could mean that they could of rectonned it so that in reality they are. I dunno but I just feel like by the next episode what was done here today will be undone.
Mary Beth House
290. UberFaenatic
I don't know that it implied she thought they were still a thing. I actually felt it was more a matter of her being overwhelmed by her circumstances as well as dealing with the residual feelings she has for Bo that didn't go away just because she broke up with her but now she feels free to move on and at least find comfort in the arms of another.

It'd be nice though if they don't set Crystal up to be the obstacle that she and Bo have to overcome and ignore the entirety of their relationship in Season 3. lol
Katherine Bloom
299. lsbloom
I did miss Kenzi a bit. But Bo threw in enough mentions that you still got the vibe of the Bo/Kenzi bond even without her on screen. The Morrigan and Mossimo plot felt like a genuine new and interesting turn of events. He's got all these powers, but he's human? Interesting. I've been missing interesting.

So nice to have Bo and Dyson back working together. And that little moment where he waited for her and then offered her his arm and she just took it. I'm glad Bo can beat up girls because it was fun when she went after Cleo (that actress is really good at whiny hubris, she did it in TVD too so it's fun when she gets a bit of comeuppance).

Do I feel bad for Lauren? A little bit. But she's just so dumb. And no 30 secs of third-grade volcano project science is gonna change my mind. At least they let her get that awful pinched annoyed facial expression off her face for a few minutes when she was happy with Crystal. I appreciated that. And maybe I should have appreciated it more and rooted for heavy-handed love interest over obviously shouldn't trust someone you just met with more secrets than you've ever told any one else ever. Oh well. I, also, don't think Lauren betrayed Bo. She broke up with her, a while ago. Then she left town without telling anyone. The relationship was over. Lauren said it to Bo, said it to Dyson. Bo herself said it. Lauren is single. She has baggage, but she's single. No, I don't think you can blame Dyson and Bo for not stopping for a random car pulled over on the side of the road without even any people visible. How many broken down cars do you even see on the side of the road? How many are just sitting there? Bo was tired and sick and wanted to get home, and frankly she'd done her good deed for the day. Until I looked at the Internet, it frankly didn't even occur to me that people would blame Dyson for that. I thought we'd get lots of paternalistic ranting about the traumatized dad trying to protect his family. I thought we'd get cries of fanservice with the fauxmarriage thing (which felt a little fanservicy to me, and for that I could have happily done without it. The missed you and the nod to spending their "dates" helping people, and the happy being back was totally enough. The head on the shoulder and understanding that they needed to get home to Kenzi was just the best. Please put the team back together. We've been waiting for so long for TPTB to realize that was the formula that actually worked.
Annie Moore
303. drusilla_doll
So I guess that makes Massimo the 'claimed human'. I thought the mask looked a little masculine. It's possible that he'll get captured and masked just so we can see how horrific it is.

As for the other stuff, it sounds wonderful! I'm downloading now and can't wait to watch it in the morning. :D
Kiersten Hallie Krum
305. Kiersten
@Lsbloom - in her post facto interview with TVGuideCanada, EA said that wedding moment was absolutely a "fan wink" to the Bo/Dyson fans. I'm just glad they didnt have Dyson go against type and trick Bo into actually marrying him, though by the smile on her face, that wouldnt have been a bad thing to Bo.

Otherwise, totally agree. Peppering the rest of their interactions with just the strong unity they have together and those small moments where Dyson waited and when Bo repeatedly reached out for him was just long overdue and lovely
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