Sat
Aug 17 2013 4:00pm

Playing Fae-vorites with Lost Girl: Top 5 Episodes

Kenzi and Bo in Lost Girl Season 1Speculation about the upcoming season four of Lost Girl is running wild as we hold out through the hiatus. With multiple Comic-Con appearances and a steady tweet stream of teasers from cast and crew, the anticipation for season four is running high and wild. Many die-hard Faemily members impatiently bide their time with epic re-watches of the past three seasons. For those without the DVDs or Blu Rays of S1 and S2 (S3 won’t release in the U.S. until November), the Chiller cable channel has graciously enabled support this mania devotion with its own run of Lost Girl from the beginning. Check your local listings.

But hey, time is tight, lives are busy, and Strikeback is back with smokin’ hot guys blowing shit up while taking the piss out of each other. Sometimes a Faenatic has to break it down to the top five of bestest evah in…hang on a minute… 13+22+13…math(s) is not my thing…do we round up? nah…so, 48 (holy crap!) episodes of Lost Girl.

Oh look! A list!

Number 5:  Fae Day/Faetal Justice (S1E9 and S1E11)

Dyson and Bo in Lost GirlI put these two together because they connect thematically and in the forward motion of the Bo and Dyson relationship. In both episodes, it’s the Fae world at the center of the mystery of the week and the dangerous dance of supernatural politics that is not only prepared to sacrifice humans without a pause, but will even offer up one of their own on the altar of ambition. Plus, Trick wields a mean shotgun and gets his Blood King badass on and that’s never not fun. In Fae Day, Bo races against the clock and puts her life on the line to resolve a centuries-old family feud in order to prevent a prophesized death. Dyson backs her up on this quest, even to the point of standing as her second when Bo must put her life on the line in the Agallamh. It’s the first episode following Dyson’s admission in Vexed of caring for Bo and we can see him figuring out exactly what that means for him even as Bo tries to understand what to do about it herself. In Faetal Justice, Dyson is framed for murder and now it’s his life on the line as Bo races against the clock to uncover the true murderer before Fae politics and Dyson’s own stubbornness end his life. Together, these two episodes show Bo and Dyson finally recognizing their relationship has gone far beyond merely friends with benefits.

Lauren and Dyson in Lost GirlNumber 4: Original Skin (S2E9)

PerfectCiara finally demanding what the hell is or is not or was going on between Dyson and Bo? Check. Creeping supernatural being in the form of an obnoxious ten-year-old? Check. Heartbreakingly precious Dyson and Kenzi moment? Check. Body switching? Check. Kris Holden-Ried’s hilarious portrayal of Kenzi trapped in Dyson’s body? Checkmate. Unquestionably the best episode of the problematic season two, Original Skin was enlightening, painful, emotionally angsty, and all kinds of funny. And yet, as usual, the anchor in this episode is Bo and Kenzi who prove that, even when they’re wearing someone else’s skin, it’s the bond between them that holds their Faemily together.

Dyson and Kenzi in Lost Girl episode 6Number 3: Food for Thought (S1E6)

 It was a tossup between this episode and Dead Lucky (S1E5) for this slot, but Food for Thought (commonly referred to as “Foot Soup”) slid into its place on the merits of the Dyson/Kenzi interaction. The thousand-year-old wolf shifter who's seen and done it all done in by the raw courage and loyalty of the wee human grifter who wraps him around her finger. Their heartbreaking, lovely scene in the cemetery locked Dyson and Kenzi in their ever-deepening big bro/little sis dynamic that continues to develop and thrive independent of their roles in Bo’s life. We also get to see Doctor Lauren out of the lab as she and Bo go after the mystery of the week, an experience that brings home to the doc how out of place she is in Bo’s day-to-day world.

Bo and Dyson in Lost GirlNumber 2: (Dis)Members (S1E12)

Finally—FINALLY—Bo and Dyson are officially together. Dyson watching the flying tennis balls as though fighting the urge to give chase in wolf form remains one of my favorite throwaway moments (though his picking pieces of Taft from his teeth in S3E13 is a close second). Few scenes in this entire series are as satisfying as Kenzi flopping down on the couch with Bo and Dyson so that Dyson can rub her sore feet. A great visual of how deeply bonded those three characters are to each other. Dyson taking the piss out of Kenzi—“Senorita, the servant’s entrance is in the rear”—followed by Kenzi’s swift rejoinder—“Bite me, wolf boy.” The happy joy between Bo and Dyson as they walk around the country club, the settled rightness between them was hard won and deeply satisfying. But the piece de resistance that cements this episode’s place in the top five is the love confession scene between Bo and Dyson.  A mature acknowledgment of the contradictory aspects of their natures and then the admission that each was willing to do whatever is necessary to overcome the obstacles and be together.  It was very Gift of the Magi-esque in its way. They laughed, they sighed, they were happy and in love. Naturally, they were doomed.

Bo and Lauren in VexedNumber 1: Vexed (S1E8)

It has to start at the very beginning. While it ran as episode 8, it’s commonly known that Vexed was the pilot of Lost Girl shot nearly a year before the series began officially filming. Vexed in a sharp encapsulation of everything Lost Girl purported to be: Sex-positive, shame-free, label-free, violent, metaphysical, supernatural, adult, witty, funny, edgy, woman-led Urban Fantasy. The case of the week educated Bo (and by extension, the audience) on Fae society structure and politics and the consequences to both Fae and humans when a Fae went against the establishment (death). It also showcases Bo and Kenzi’s tight bond, along with one of the most favorite Kenzisms to date: “Smells like fried bitch!”

Dyson and Bo in Lost Girl's VexedBo sleeps with both her main lovers (the episode opens with what is generally agreed to be the hottest love scene in the series as Bo and Dyson have angry, healing, smoking hot sex). Each interaction highlights basic aspects of Dyson and Doctor Lauren’s respective characters and has major impact and consequences on and for both relationships. And we meet Vex, possibly the best antagonist in the series, who announces his presence with snarky, amoral authority and takes no prisoners...or at least not for long. It’s was a stellar pilot episode and, as it turned out, the perfect lynchpin episode too in its mid-season position as it turned this first season into its last five episodes. At its center, Vexed is an episode about how Bo struggles to reconcile the ambiguity of her new Fae world with her human-influenced moral core, a conflict that is a fundamental theme of the Lost Girl series.

What are your go-to moments to feed the Fae need? Sound off in the comments!

 


Kiersten Hallie Krum writes smart, sharp & sexy romantic suspense. Find her snarking her way across social media as @kierstenkrum and on her web site and blog at www.kierstenkrum.com.

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820 comments
Linda Losik
1. LindaL
WOW: I am finally first!!!! Now let's take this to 1000.
Suzanne Metaxas
2. SuzyM
Kiersten it seems we have the same taste in episodes :) S1 is definitely my favorite too & even the eps you've picked out are my favs too for many reasons. I love the connection that was built between Bo/Dyson/Kenzi in these episodes, these are the foundation of the happy Sunshine gang. Kenzi/Hale started towards the end of S1 and built in S2. Vexed just came on have to go watch! :)
TheGardner
3. TheGardner
So this list wasn't "Dyson" biased at all. ;-)

I can agree with you on Foot Soup(an amazing episode where each character played to their strengths and had a role), I liked 2x16 for a similar reason. The cemetary scene with Kenzi and Dyson was probably one of the best in the entire series. Those two have an interesting dynamic and I hope that it is explored more in season 4.

Watching Vexed now it feels like an episode from a different series. Bo was so antagonistic towards everyone and so inconsiderate and stubborn that I wanted to smack her. (the episode opens with what is generally agreed to be the hottest love scene in the series as Bo and Dyson have angry, healing, smoking hot sex), um based on what and where, I have only seen that stated on this forum? Blood covered sex and KHR's ass aside, I really enjoyed the pacing and tone of this episode. I think the right call was made to tone down Bo's character when the series was picked up, but they could have kept the edge.

1x11 was a throwaway filler episode.

1x12 The ignored rape kills anything good this episode had to offer for me. I find it completely abhorrent that this scene of graphic sexual violence would be included then completely ignored and retconned into "So last night Dyson banged your mom?" I think that Bo and Dyson made steps towards actually attempting to be adults in their relationship. The "love confession" scene would have had more meaning if they didn't break up in the following episode. As it is it just felt kind of flat, and I find it interesting that the only time their relationship seemed normal and healthy was when they were role playing as such.

1x09 - I don't know if this would be on my best of list, but it was a really good episode. I really enjoyed Kenzi and Shawn, too bad he had to die because in one episode together, they had more chemistry then she has had with anyone else(sorry Hale, I'm just not feeling it, though I would love a scene with those two vegging out on the couch watching The Mighty Ducks, major fail show!).

2x09 - And yet, as usual, the anchor in this episode is Bo and Kenzi who prove that, even when they’re wearing someone else’s skin, it’s the bond between them that holds their Faemily together. I couldn't agree more. The Bo and Kenzi friendship is the best part of this series, and far outweighs the drama of who is keeping Bo's bed warm. This is were my antagonism towards Tamsin comes into play as she took time away from our girls together. TPTB need to fix this ASAP, Bo and Kenzi are soulmates(not sexually) and without them the show looses its appeal.

With the exception of 2x09, the episodes selected are all from season 1, this makes me really curious as to which ones didn't make the cut.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
4. Kiersten
@TheGardner - Yup, they're mostly from season one as the point of the post was to list my favorites (and why) and season one is my favorite season. While there are more than a few moments from season three (and two for that matter) that I really enjoy, overall there is not a single episode that I can whole-heartedly say is a favorite, which, now that I think on it, neatly encapsulates the overall decline of the show. Overall, season one is full of good episodes with some bad moments (I have expressed my strong feelings on Dyson's rape and its subsequent dismissal on the show as 'a bang' several times before), while season three is full of bad episodes with some good moments. I can't think of a single episode from season three that would ever in its entirety make it onto my favorite list.

As for Vexed, I did say "generally". Your oft-stated negative opinion on that episode, while welcomed on this forum, is in the minority. Again, this was a list of my favorite episodes, not a poll, and that one tops the list as it does for many Lost Girl fans.
TheGardner
5. Char
OMG: Those 5 episodes are my favorite episodes. Love how family centric, open and sharing Bo, Dyson, and Kenzi are with each other. That is why my heart breaks to not see it so much in Season 3. I am so giddy that I can't type right now. More to come.
Nadine Robb
6. cmm
I'm really happy you made this post Kiersten. Season 1 is the only season for me. I don't just have one episode I like, I like all of them. I remember when I first saw started watching this show, after the entire season aired I just went onto showcase.ca and watched the episodes over and over lol.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
7. Kiersten
@Char - INORITE?!

@Cmm - oh, thanks a lot for that. I know exactly what you mean. My poor DVR was loaded with eps until the DVDs were available.
TheGardner
8. Eirene
Ah! Lost Girl! Thanks for this list because honestly I forgot to watch catch up on season 3 (so many TV shows and books, so little time)! I didn't know Vexed was supposed to be the pilot episode! Vex is definitely the best antagonist I've seen from this show so far. Also got to agree with the Kenzi/Dyson dynamics, those two are adorable and I enjoy how they're always there for each other in some way or another. Kenzi will always be my favourite character, that episode with Baba Yaga was terrifying haha.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
9. Kiersten
Hi @Eirene! Thanks for leaving a comment. Yes, Vexed was filmed to sell the show to the network, i.e. it was the pilot. And then when it came time for the show to start its run, it took up the episode 8 slot. Actually, most of S1 was filmed out of sequence, which is why the timeline feels a little off here and there.
TheGardner
10. Char
Honorable Mention: Midnight Lamp and Faebysitting.

Midnight Lamp: when Bo wonders how much scoops of coffee. Kenzi is greatly missed. And when Bo helps the guppy and sucks out her life essence and says no one will hurt her again. Classic! :)
Carmen Pinzon
11. bungluna
I don't have the series available anymore. When we moved I had to leave my DVR behind and lost all my episodes. I can't wait to get back Stateside and get the videos. So I'll just have to list my favorites by scenes I remember. Please bear with me.

1. Definitely Vexed. It was a great encapsulation of what would have made LG a prime UF series, if soapopera writing hadn't hijacked it. There's the 'feral' sex scene with Bo/Dyson, the more soft-soap one with Lauren / Bo. All the elements needed were laid out in this episode.

2. Foot Soup. The way Dyson / Kenzie interacted, plus the way Lauren went into geek mode to save the day, it epitomizes what I wish the show had kept on doing.

3. Body swap. I just loved the way all the actors interpreted each others' characters. Plus, creepy child, always a plus.

4. Wild West World. I liked the way Trick and Stella interacted in this episode and the whole Tamsin / Bo conversation. The famous 'kiss' didn't do anything for me, but I liked how they played off each other.

5. Country Club Swap Meet. I loved the fact that Dyson and Bo TALKED about their relationship and what obstacles they faced. I also loved the Kenzie on the couch scene. That whole scene illustrates what I wish the show had been about, the Funshine Gang Faemily.
TheGardner
12. whiskeywhite
Well, this is fun. I would agree with all of Kiersten's choices, except maybe putting "Vexed" as #1. It is certainly a powerful episode that sets up all the key dynamics, and I can see why it sold the show. Somebody (Michelle Lovretta?) said that they eventually made a decision to make the show lighter than the dark tone of this episode, which is why it looks so different from the rest. Thereafter the sex is less violent and I don't think Dyson ever again manhandles Bo as roughly -- physically when he pulls her off Vex or emotionally "This is the last time" (although the Kayla incident was cruel).

@TheGardner, I'm not sure whether it's KHR's ass that you dislike or just having to see it, but it's not my favourite scene either. The lovely man (and I say this with the deepest affection) has no ass. He can't help it, he's white and thin. I liked the lovemaking scene between Bo and Lauren and have never been happy with it being dismissed as a "spy bang". Lauren certainly had ulterior motives on top of her personal ones, but spying wasn't among them (I know, I realize I'm nitpicking about the word, but it was a protection/diversion bang).

I love the scene in "Fae Day" when Bo comments that Dyson would probably rather not be in a parking lot on La Shoshain. He looks away, reflecting on his own feelings, and answers "There's no place I'd rather be", an important admission in an episode immediately following "Vexed". Unfortunately Bo misses the significance and dismisses the remark as sarcasm. It is also noteworthy that standing as Bo's second meant he was supposed to kill her if she failed. A painful gesture of caring to have to make.

Love, love "(Dis)Members". Before the couch scene, Kenzi refers to Dyson as "senor" to which he responds by calling her "senora", which would be wrong for a young unmarried woman (finally - an opportunity to bring up this nitpick!). He gets it right later by directing the "senorita" to "the rear" to which Kenzi retorts, "Bite my rear, dog breath."

There's one favourite episode which I would like to shoehorn into the list (instead of what? "Fae Day"probably, but I wouldn't want to leave out "Faetal Justice". Argh). That would be 2.21, “ Into the Dark” because it's so packed with significant developments. We see Dyson's pain and sense of defeat at Ciara's wake, and Lauren's effort to comfort him, the first respectful personal conversation between the two. Trick admits (finally!) that he is Bo's grandfather, the Nain Rouge is won over and provides vital information, Kenzi rescues Dyson from his blue funk leading to her first fateful visit to the Norn. Bo trades The Morrigan some Barnacle Goose juice for Vex and recruits him to her cause, in the process snapping her "insurance" photo of the bed-cuffed Morrigan. Kenzi assaults The Norn's door and sacred tree with a chainsaw getting Dyson's shimmery love back, but is splashed with what we (much) later find out is the Kitsun's 'glamour'. The episode ends with Bo having accepted her role as the Champion, asserting her leadership of the 6-person "army" (which now includes Lauren as a full member, no longer left back in the lab) as they prepare for renewed battle with the Garuda. So much happened in this episode that the finale was anti-climatic.

Much as I am reluctant to say it, given her more recent work as showrunner, Emily Andras was nominated for a Canadian Screen Award for writing "Into the Dark". And PS @Char, the Director of "Midnight Lamp" won an award for it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
13. Kiersten
Not to go over territory already discussed to death but, for the record, it was Kenzi who called it a "spy bang" in conversation with Bo, who agreed. So...canon (as some people like to say).
Kiersten Hallie Krum
14. Kiersten
While I adored the Ryan and Bo interaction in Midnight Lamp (I still wish they'd bring him back), I thought Lauren Holly horribly wasted in that episode. Overall, the entire thing was so clearly filler due to the unexpected 22 episode extension that it makes it hard to invest in it or do more than dismiss it as such.
TheGardner
16. TheGardner
@whiskeywhite - My issue with the Bo/Dyson scene at the beginning of Vexed has nothing to do with KHR's ass or the raw roughness of it. Stylisticly it's a well shot intense and hot scene, I just can't get past Bo dripping in blood, ew. Now if we could transport that scene to a shower...

@Kiersten - My opinions are in the minority, ha surely you jest! When did Kenzi and Bo ever actually talk about the "spy bang"? I remember Kenzi using the term twice; in 2x06 to Lauren and 3x03 to (ironically) Vex. This is not me being a smartass, I am actually asking because I don't remember them adressing it.
TheGardner
17. Char
@Whiskeywhite--I love Dyson's physique. He has an athletes body specifically soccer. He is a lean mean hot looking machine. Ooh La La!

I am glad it won an award. I like the whole genie in a bottle. It was cute and so was Ryan. I wish there more dark Fae centric episode that shows how Bo could fit in seamlessly with that part of the Fae. Cause bridling the masses doesn't sound like rainbows and cute little kittens.

@Kiersten--Would put Original Skin @ número UNO. For a filler episode it was nice. They do seem to waste great stars...Holly and Hamilton. I should be psyched that Takei will be there but I can't. Also If the Season was originally 13 episodes, Dyson would have not been that big of a jackhole? Idk. And what does that Love yourself by Ciara mean? He gave his love to Bo. Sour grapes Ciara.

Was Into the Dark one of the original 13 or 22? It was good with everyone working today. And I liked seeing Lauren having using her niche in working with the team. Lost Girl needs more of that Dr Lauren instead of whiny in love Lauren, which was most of Season 3.
TheGardner
18. Penetrator
@KHR body admirers - the hottest Dyson has been to me was in 3x06 when he was wearing the wife beater. Man has some lovely, yummy arms and wonderful body shape (tapering off at his hips before expanding outward as he gets to his shoulders). His stomach area, however, isn't appealing to me (hey if the show is going to provide eye candy, I'll be shallow!). Perhaps seeing Hale shirtless ruined Dyson shirtless, but whenever I see Dyson without a shirt, I now think, 'put on a wifebeater and show off your assets'.

My top 5 all have to do with teamwork:

Honorable mention: 3x03 - This is where Anna Silk really got to play with her comedic chops. Season 3 had some hit and miss moments, but Ms. Silk really showed she can do comedy, most obviously in this episode, but also in 3x07, 3x08, and her scene with Trick in 3x09. Plus the conversation with Kenzi and Lauren was heart warming - each of these very different humans were jealous of the other. Each opened up to express that. Ms. Palmer and Ms. Solo are wonderful actresses in their own rights, but their skills were amplified by playing off each other quite well

Number 5) 2x01 - Re-introduction of the team. Everyone had a job that was irreplacable. Everyone did their job. At the end of the day, the team won. Trick gave background of the fae, Hale was there to smooth out rough spots, Dyson helped sniff folks out and help with detective work, Lauren nerded out, Kenzi used 'connections' as well as reeled Bo back at the club, and Bo took the lead. Bonus points for the first appearance of a cute little girl in an underground sex club.

Number 4) 2x22 - Just like 2x01, everyone had a role, and everyone did it. Dyson was the muscle, Bo was the leader, Lauren provided medical care, Kenzi reeled Bo back from being psychotic, Hale had everyone's back.

Number 3) 3x10 - The acting here was incredible. I know there are not many Lauren fans in this website, but Zoie Palmer killed it this episode. Her scene getting beaten up tore at my heart (apparently no stunt double was used), and her scene with Dyson is in my top 5 scenes of the series. But Ms. Palmer wasn't the only amazing actor. Anna Silk played Bo wonderfully - obliviousness ranging to pain at the end of the episode. Ksenia Solo did a wonderful job expressing how much more vulnerable Kenzi feels after the Kitsune. Gone is the badass human who would sit in the living room to protect Bo from the Fae in season 1. Kenzi is still Kenzi, but Ms. Solo did a great job showing that Kenzi has changed a bit. KHR (because his name is too long to spell) didn't have many emotional scenes, but he was amazing in his scene with Lauren. So overall, the acting here boosted this episode in to my top 5.

Number 2) 2x16 - just like all the other episodes, teamwork is key! Dyson was hilarious as an undercover guidance counselor ("just get laid"), and I actually liked how they portrayed Bo - someone who thinks relationships have to be complicated and hard, but realizing that sometimes simple is possible. Kenzi freaking out and nerding out was great, and honestly, I enjoyed watching Lauren's awkwardness at being torn between Bo and Nadia (yay character progression). Nadia's mustache twirling (no not a sexual reference) at the end of the episode was jarring as well.

Number 1) 1x06 - Teamwork at its best! Dyson opening himself to Kenzi was a beautiful moment. KHR killed that scene, as did Ksenia Solo. I also like how it's a subtle bit of Kenzi backstory that they expanded just a bit on in 2x04. Someone close to Kenzi (her father perhaps?) probably died, and she probably has a bad experience with hospitals. Bo and Lauren showed that they do make a good team, and I think this is the most confident we see of Lauren in the first season. Is this because being in 'the outside world' lets Lauren revert back to her previous self? There are hints throughout all 3 seasons that pre-fae Lauren was somewhat spunky (hello, navel piercing!). Great subtle backstory bits on both humans while progressing all relationships between all 5 characters (Trick included) and making them more complicated as well.
TheGardner
19. whiskeywhite
Thanks, Kiersten, for reminding me of the origin of the "spy bang" phrase. But it doesn't mean that I have to like it, any more than you have to like the words and actions that are written for Lauren, also part of the canon. Doesn't Kenzi also accuse Dyson of spying on Bo (I think after it is revealed that he knew who Bo's mother was all the time)? That also didn't make sense to me as the main conclusion to draw from the situation, even though Dyson was, in fact, chosen by Trick to watch Bo (although not via an intimate relationship), and not just in the protection sense. Trick reminds him of that assignment rather forcefully in Season 3, when it is suspected that Bo is killing again, implying that Dyson has fallen down on his duty by not informing Trick sooner ("I thought I chose wisely").

Sorry, @TheGardner, I was just reacting to what you wrote: "Blood covered sex and KHR's ass aside, I really enjoyed ...". And I agree @Char, KHR is a handsome, handsome man with the broad muscular shoulders and narrow waist and hips of a swimmer. I'm just accustomed to men of African descent, like my partner, who tend to be a little more endowed in the gluteus maximus area. OK, enough discussion of poor KHR's assets.
TheGardner
20. whiskeywhite
Oops, missed your comment @Penetrator. I agree that the undershirt (I refuse to say "wifebeater" -- an ugly phrase not of your making I know) showed off Dyson's shoulders. But I actually thought it was intended to de-sexualize him, to tame or domesticate him. He wears it only twice, to avoid any suggestion of sexual intent when he agrees to let faux Kenzi sleep in his bed with him, and to communicate "husband" (as opposed to wild animal lover) in Bo's dream or hallucination or whatever in the Dawning.

I also agree that the scene where Lauren was beaten by the muppet monster's boyfriend was very striking. Very realistic and painful to watch.

I was also reminded -- could everyone please include the title of the episode they're nominating, if even by nickname? I don't have all the numbers memorized, especially in season 3.
TheGardner
21. Penetrator
@whiskeywhite - thank you for the correction. You are right, sometimes verbiage can be unintentionally insensitive. Interesting point about the de-sexualizing. Perhaps I just have an interesting take on what is sexy, but I found Dyson in a tank much more attractive than without, merely because it showcased what I find attractive from KHR. That's one thing that I love about this show - the opportunity to be unabashedly shallow when circumstances dictate.

And apologies, I'm the opposite, I never remember names, but instead numbers:

3x03: Confaegion (forgot to mention here: the Teen Fae Squad was hilarious)
2x01: Something wicked this fae comes
2x22: Flesh and Blood
3x10: Delinquents
2x16: School's out
1x06 (As mentioned by Kiersten): Food for thought
Linda Losik
22. LindaL
While it is not my favorite episode (that would be Vexed), I cannot but be blown away by KHR’s acting in S2E18. This is the one where Bo gets dowsed in fae water and is ready to marry Ryan while Dyson is interviewing that schmucky little underfae. The depth that he portrays and the nuances are really stunning. KHR definitely shows that he is far more than a pretty package in this one!
TheGardner
23. LostgirlFan
To be honest the only episode #'s that I remember are the season 3 episodes. Season 2 sucked all together and I personally would like
to pretend that season 2 never even existed. Season 1 rocked and if
it wasn't for the addition of Tamsin in season 3 I'd name season 1
the best season. So surprise surprise my favorite episodes from
season 3 involve all episodes that showcase Bo and Tamsin heavily.
Episode 3, 6, 8, 12, & 13. As for season 1 well like I said I don't really remember episode #'s just some episode names and the circumstances of the certain episodes. I liked Faetal Attraction, I also liked the episode with the spider, Kenzi eating the human soup, and Bo trying to save her mother. Oh and put me down for liking "Vexed " too.
TheGardner
24. whiskeywhite
@LindaL -- yes, yes, yes!! That scene with Dyson interrogating the underfae in the dungeon in 2.18,“Fae-nted Love”, was excellent. KHR was outstanding -- it was painful to watch the look on his face as he fights the idea that without love his life is a waste. The underfae, Acher, was rivetting too, I thought. The clicking snake eyes helped, but mostly it was the acting skill of established Canadian actor, Oliver Becker. He stole that scene.

And yes, @Penetrator, "shallow at a moment's notice!" shall be my slogan from now on.
Suzanne Metaxas
25. SuzyM
Just adding my 2cents to the tee shirt discussion :) I love KHR's body. It is hot sexy and a swimmers body. Not over developed but muscular. Just my cup of tea :D

I agree that S2-18 showcased his talent for being able to not say a word but convey a multitude of feelings. He is really good at this. I wish they would give him meater scripts like this one and S3-6 Kenzi Scale to show off his talents. Though Oliver Becker was exceptional also I don't agree that he stole the scene. I think the two of them worked well together and brought out the most from the script together.

If you want to see a film that dipalys his many acting talents as well as those of Zoie Palmer, Mary Khronert & Christine Horne check out The Untitled Work of Paul Shepard. If you can't see it on Canadian TV you can now rent it for 7 days from Vimeo world wide. Here is the link https://vimeo.com/ondemand/tuwops Don't forget to leave a review too! :)
TheGardner
26. TheGardner
My top 5 would be:

5.) 2x03 Scream a Little Dream - The proper way to blur the lines of reality into a walking nightmare.

4.) 3x03 Confaegion - Loved the Lauren and Kenzi interaction and the teen trio were priceless.

3.) 2x13 Barometztrick Pressure - The writing, the acting, the backstory, oh if only this had been the season finale it was originally intended to be.

2.) 2x21 Into the Dark - So good the season 2 finale paled in comparison.

1.) 1x06 Foot Soup - Everyone utilizing their strengths and working together to save Kenzi and of course the cemetary scene.

Honorable Mentions: 2x16 School's Out - For similar reasons as 1x06 and Bo as the world's hottest(and most inappropriate) teacher; 2x02 Fae Hunger Games(the title escapes me) - The pacing was good and the story was compelling and we have the introduction of Lachlin; 1x01 It's a Fae Fae Fae World - It works as a good introduction to the characters, and I love Bo and Kenzi saving each other, soulmates from the start; 3x10 Delinquents - Though a waste of a guest star, the stellar acting from the core four is worth a mention.
TheGardner
27. stacymd2
All of Kiersten’s picks are great. Here are some of my favs not in any order:

“Food for Thought” (106): Kenzi eating foot soup; Kenzi & Dyson scenes

“Vexed” (108): D & Bo’s opening scene; Vex; Trick saves Luanne

“Original Skin” (209): Body switching fun; K in D’s body and vice versa

“Delinquents” (310): D&K bonding; B&D’s talk; D& Lauren’s talk; tickle-bang; Linda Hamilton

Honorable Mentions:

“Fae-ge Against the Machine”; “Kenzi Scale” & "Fae-nted Love”
TheGardner
28. stacymd2
Oops! I almost forgot I also loved “Into the Dark” (221). Kenzi vs. The Norn. Dyson got his purple love back.

Does anyone know if there has been any more gust star announcements for S4?

Kiersten, how are you going to handle the recaps for S4 with the difference in USA and Canada premieres?
Pandra Selivanov
29. Zanza
Rather than list favorite episodes (although The Kenzi Scale always deserves a shoutout for its great Dyson and Bo moments and how great it makes Tamsin look) I'd like to take a look at themes. Even though the show went to heck in a handbasket when Andras took over, the first season had some great themes, and one of the best was the idea that humanity does not necessarily equal "good." There have been perplexing statements from a certain segment that Bo has lost her humanity and she needs to find her humanity, but if there was one thing the first season made clear, it's that kindness and compassion and honor and love are not the exclusive province of the humans.

I thought the groundwork for this was well laid in the first episode, when Bo was saved by Dyson and Kenzi, a Fae and a human. There were other episodes that really seemed to point that out, like the dreaded Arachnofaebia, where the leader of the death squad showed some mercy to the people in the house and gave Dyson a chance to save them. Even Vex, bad as he is, showed a certain rough honor in wanting the actual guy who killed his friend and not just taking out his anger on Dyson. I do like a show that doesn't split up the characters into their various races, or species, or planets, or whatever-I like it when it's the mind and heart and soul that matter and not the wrapping it comes in.
TheGardner
30. LostgirlFan
@Zanza great post I pretty much agree with everything you said. You made some really good statements about how it's not just the humans
who have some sort of moral compass Kudos!

@Stacymd2 I think that Kiersten hasn't decided yet on how she is going to handle the fact that Showcase will have the season premier Nov 10th, and Syfy won't have theirs till Jan 2014. If you go find
post # 139 in the previous article she addresses the issue there :).

I would just like to congradulate you again Kiersten looks like you picked the right tv show to talk about. I decided to poke around this
website at some of the other features , and this one about Lost Girl seems to be the most popular. Several of the other features like Downton Abbey, True Blood, and or the White Queen barely have
any posts and not alot of action so kudos to you :). Lost Girl really is
the only reason I come here anyways. I also wanted to tell everyone that some of the cast of LG will be at the FanExpo in Toronto. I think it starts August 22-25th. I myself will be checking youtube shortly after to see if I can find the LG cast talking about the show.
TheGardner
31. Char
Is Bo human? Biologically speaking, Bo is Fae. Circumstances made her human. Themes, I do agree that humans are not necessarily better than the Fae but humans are weaker in regards to power. But humans (Kenzi) have shown that they are powerful in their determination and motivation.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
32. Kiersten
Thanks @LostGirlFan! We definitely have a vibrant, dedicated, and ever-growing Lost Girl community here at Heroes and Heartbreakers.

@Char - Bo is indeed biologically Fae but as she was raised by humans, her "moral" world view skews toward a human perspective before it thinks Fae. I liken it to a royal child raised by peasants so as to off-set the inherent entitlement by teaching the prince or princess humility and kindness from the lowest level of society. To the Fae, humans are the lowest level and yet it is to that species that they're amazingly powerful lost girl relates best and whom she insists on championing often instead of the Fae. That main conflict is a major theme of the series - or at least it was.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
33. Kiersten
All of the cast WILL be at FanExpo this weekend on SATURDAY only. There is a lottery system to get a place in line for autographs (which does NOT guarantee you an autograph) and a full cast panel. The panel is always completely booked and last year many were turned away because there was no more room, so if you're going, get there earlier to be sure to get a seat!
TheGardner
34. LostgirlFan
I thought that if we are going to give our favorite episodes, then maybe some of you would like to talk about your favorite lines from LG? It doesn't matter what season or what character. What ever line that
each character has said that kinda stuck out to you, and that you thought was really cool, funny, or touching.
Kenzi episode 10 season 1 - Regret if for suckers for suckers for suckers
Kenzi episode 10 season 1 - If two succubusses have sex will that cause a black hole in the space time continuum?

Dyson episode 3 season 3 - This one time I got to be Kenzi " Nailed It "

Tamsin episode 12 season 3 - So let me get this straight your current girlfriend just conspired to have your former boyfriend kidnapped ?
Tamsin episode 12 season 3 - You may want to change that frock cuz
things are about to get Dir tay!!!!!!

Bo episode 3 season 3 - Dyson just touched my boob LOL!!!!!!
Bo episode 13 season3 - Isn't this just the shit storm of Fae proportions!

Any of the other characters never really said anything that stood out to
me so that is why I didn't include them. Mainly Kenzi and Tamsin get all the cool lines. Both Dyson and Bo every once in a while come up with some funny on liners. Trick and Hale don't really get that many lines and aren't on camera that much. Lauren I am sure she has said something funny but nothing that ever stood out to me. Lauren isn't really known for her funny on liners. She is way to serious of a character, so I guess the writers don't give her alot of funny lines to say.
TheGardner
35. Char
Champion for the humans. Good to know that humans have Bo on their side but Daddy may have a different opinion!

Daddy was not that scary 30 years ago. I mean Trick never talked about him. Until Trick sees the dragon breathing fire resurrection juice. And if Daddy is so scary, y is Trick with Stella? ahouldnt he be looking for Gang? I really dont like Lauren bit Trick is close by with his never revealing information. Now Bo's daddy. Was Daddy holed up in his own castle and if so how was Aife able to kidnap the baby? And escape alive?

Memorable quotes: I can't think of anything. I don't have the DVDs and my DVR keeps skipping Lost Girl. But the best one liners goes to Kenzi! If memory serves me right, Then Tamsin, Bo and Dyson. Lauren is serious.
But Kenzi is hilarious!

Lauren, enough already with the new story lines. Could the writes give Lauren a break and just let her be her. But we have to wait for Karen stories to come out and even then is Karen, Karen? Or is she Lauren. Is Laren a double double agent. Things that make me go hmmmmmm.

I would like to see Kenzi and Bo working on some Dark Fae cases. And I did like Delinquents. Was that Fae dark or light?
TheGardner
36. Char
Champion for the humans. Good to know that humans have Bo on their side but Daddy may have a different opinion!

Daddy was not that scary 30 years ago. I mean Trick never talked about him. Until Trick sees the dragon breathing fire resurrection juice. And if Daddy is so scary, y is Trick with Stella? ahouldnt he be looking for Gang? I really dont like Lauren bit Trick is close by with his never revealing information. Now Bo's daddy. Was Daddy holed up in his own castle and if so how was Aife able to kidnap the baby? And escape alive?

Memorable quotes: I can't think of anything. I don't have the DVDs and my DVR keeps skipping Lost Girl. But the best one liners goes to Kenzi! If memory serves me right, Then Tamsin, Bo and Dyson. Lauren is serious.
But Kenzi is hilarious!

Lauren, enough already with the new story lines. Could the writes give Lauren a break and just let her be her. But we have to wait for Karen stories to come out and even then is Karen, Karen? Or is she Lauren. Is Laren a double double agent. Things that make me go hmmmmmm.

I would like to see Kenzi and Bo working on some Dark Fae cases. And I did like Delinquents. Was that Fae dark or light?
TheGardner
37. TheGardner
Favorite lines, hmm... I shall choose 1 per character and include an Honorable Mention(HM) as a secondary.

Bo - "Dyson touched my boob!"(3x03) HM - "Maybe they're on a plane?"(2x20)

Dyson - "The t-shirt's the deal breaker babe."(2x13) HM - "It was with my elbow, that doesn't even count."(3x03)

Kenzi - "Woa! Smells like fried bitch."(1x08) HM - "Ladies start your vajayjays."(2x07)

Lauren - "Why do chemists prefer nitrates? Because they're cheaper then day rates."(3x08) HM - "I'm going to shove this arm so far down your throat you will be mesmerizing your own bowel movements."(2x22)

Trick -"So many glasses, must polish."(3x05) HM - "I try not to 'shit' about things." (1x10)

Hale - "The Glaive is going to make garters out of my tender bits, and I need my tender bits."(2x08) HM - "I never would have guessed when you made me watch it nine times."(2x17)

Tamsin - "Have you always been a litterbug?"(3x02) HM - "It's entirely possible I do not smell so good right now."(3x12)
TheGardner
38. LGFaen
This dialogue is from an video audition an actor up for the part of Jeffrey on Lost Girl on vimeo, it was removed but still for those who care I'll leave the transcript. Looks like a Christmas special.
No Dyson mostly Tamsin and I believe the random person is Bo.

http://pastebin.com/gHwryH1Y

P.S I totally posted this same comment somewhere else on this site by mistake and now I can't remove it. Apologies.
Pandra Selivanov
39. Zanza
Kenzi: "I love you."
Bruce: "I love you too, Kenzi."
Kenzi: "I was talking to the car."

Tamsin: "Baby Fae."
Bo: "Dead woman."

Kenzi: "Can you wolf out and lay on my feet?"
Dyson: "Maybe later."
TheGardner
40. Char
Hey Everyone, Woukdnt it be cool that they parody another iconic movie (I guess Caged Heat)? Maybe the Godfather, the Graduate, Friday, Croiching Tiger, Hidden Dragon!!? That would be awesome. Or am I asking for too much. It would be so cool to see Kenzi patting Dyson as a wolf saying "I'm gonna make him am offer he can't refuse". Classic Lost Girl/Godfather. Or Tamsin, Bo, and Trick are master ninja fighters? And Woukdnt it be cool if Lauren and Dyson are stuck in Gone with the Wind! Frankly my Dear, I don't give a damn.
Pandra Selivanov
41. Zanza
I'd like to see them do Casablanca. I'd love to see Bo leaving with Lauren, but we all know it's really Dyson she loves and she's only going with Lauren out of a sense of duty. And then Dyson and Tamsin walk away and he says this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
42. Kiersten
I've always hated Casablanca. And Gone With the Wind. ;)
TheGardner
43. Char
@Zanza--Thas too awesome. I love Casablanca. That would be so sad. To see Bo leave with Lauren and not be with therm she loves. But there is Tamsin and Dyson---the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Awee how sweet. But where is Kenzi? :(

@Kiersten--Yes, Gone with the Wind was a little cheesy. Hey Lost Girl gets campy. But that skit by Carol Burnett where she makes her dress out drapes and you can see the curtain rod. OMG! ROTFL! But not liking Casablanca, oh the horror. :)

And I think Bo is a Scorpio, Lauren is an Aquarius, Kenzi is a Pisces, Dyson is a Taurus, Trick is Capricorn, Tamsin is a Leo, and Hale is a Cancer. Just saying.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
44. Kiersten
That Carol Burnett GWTW sketch is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my entire life. They even cracked each other up doing it.
Pandra Selivanov
45. Zanza
Char, Kenzi is on the plane with Bo and Lauren. Gotta agree with youa about Casablanca-it's one of my all time favorites. I just love Humphrey Bogart.
Katherine Bloom
46. lsbloom
At NO point do I consider Caged Heat an iconic movie, or a moive in need of an homage or anyone remembering that exploitative piece of crap was ever made.

Gone with the Wind , or even Vanity Fair that it was based on, are fair game in the classic department.
Katherine Bloom
47. lsbloom
Favorite episodes:

Kiersten, I can't agree on Arachnofaebia. I would like it for the cemetery scene and all the exposition of Kenzi and Dyson and Trick, save I can't get past all the fan reworking. Lauren set Bo up to die, no questions asked and then took credit as the hero. Jerk.

When I want to rewatch, my mark for a good episode, I start with Vexed. While it ultimately has entirely too little Kenzi, Bo is aggressive and take no prisioners. Dyson holds her at arms length, but still comes through, and you have great GREAT themes of love and sacrifice and power. With the "you have to be owned to be free." "No, just to keep breathing." What is freedom and how much can you sacrifice for proteciton? Where did all the themes go in this show?

Second is probably Dead Lucky. "Come on, we're getting T-shirts." And Kenzi figuring it all out and Dyson backing her up. Plus, "You know we get paid in real-life money, right."

Third, Mirror, Mirror. "It's just really dangerous." "It's Kenzi."What can I say, I'm a Kenzi fan. I love how she came face to face with her demons and shoved that B into a bonfire.

Fourth, Oh Kappa My Kappa. I know the weird sorority one. One becauses the morning after scene is one of my favorites in the whole sersious. Two because Kenzi was on fire. "The truth is for pussies." And the whole vibe between starting to be friends and starting to be family was awesome. But mainly because they took a Buffy stereotype and twisted it, showing both the audience and the fact that they were playing in a pretty well-trodd sandbox some respect.

Fifth, Original Skin. Sorry. They were funny. They were heartfelt. Kenzi has spunk whether she had claws or not. Dyson saved the day because strenth or not that's who he was. And Ciara grew a spine under that couture dress. Plus, friendship beer.

I'm not making apologies becuase there aren't major Lauren episodes on this list. She makes most episodes worse, ie, Arachnofaebia. If she hadn't been devious and ignored her patients and tried to kill Bo it would have been a memorable episode, but everytime she's on screen she ruins it. She kicks Kenzi to the sidelines, she betrays Bo, she enables illogical plots (stupid medicine and ridiculous plot devices) that wouldn't happen if the character didn't exist. That's my take. Though Kiersten's is probably better! :-)
TheGardner
48. whiskeywhite
@lsbloom-- Yes! Loved the morning after scene in 1.03 "Oh Kappa My Kappa" (and the night before in the previous episode). 1.05, "Dead Lucky", has the great 'friends with benefits' sex at the beginning ("thank you officer for responding to my emergency") plus the "911 booty call" where Bo literally jumps on Dyson on a table and Trick bangs the dishes because Bo and Dyson have been doing "lots of talking." I'm still working on making myself a "We're gettin' t-shirts" t-shirt. (Note: not "getting". KHR always drops his Gs in 'ing'.)

I have to ask, Kiersten. Why don't you like Casablanca? Is now the time to mention that Humphrey Bogart reminds me of my father? (There's a strong resemblance.) What does that mean, Dr. Freud?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
49. Kiersten
I've never liked Bogart nor understood the worship. I find Bergman an insipid heroine and hate the ending. There's great lines but I've never understood the appeal. Everyone ends up miserable except the husband who's just being duped into staying in a marriage with a woman who's in love with another man. I hate Wuthering Heights too BTW. I'm not at all a traditional romantic. I want conflict, yes, and dislike romances where everything is too easy b/c that's not relatable but I also dont like when horrible people are made to be romantic figures or when a stupid ass conclusion is made out to be romantic.

Dead Lucky also has the two great morgue scenes, first with the attendant taking over the corpse of the blonde woman "I'm not playin'." And then when Dyson gets locked in the freezer and trusts Bo to go on without him to fight the hsien (or whatever) which she does beutifully until the sheer physical strength of his last body snatch overwhelms her. Even Dyson relies on his gun and not his wolf to take that guy down. I like the healing scene in that ep too not only b/c of the funny, but also b/c it shows Bo trying to protect Dyson even as she desperately needs to feed and Dyson seriously bat-shit cray about her bad condition and insisting she take whatever she needs even at his cost. And I loved Meyer too. So much good stuff in that ep.
Pandra Selivanov
50. Zanza
Casablanca doesn't have a happy ending but it does have a fitting ending. It's not a love story. It's a story about love during war time and what war does to lovers-how it can separate people who should be together. It's also about how war can throw people together and create unlikely alliances, hence Rick and Renault walk off together at the end and it's left open if Rick and Ilsa will ever see each other again. They've formed a bond that will never break, but the war got in the way. It resonates with people because sometimes that's the way life is-things can happen that take away someone you love, but you don't stop loving them.

I love Bogart as a good guy and a bad guy, but his best movies, of course, are with his wife, Lauren Bacall. I just rewatched Key Largo and To Have and Have Not and those are both wonderful movies with happy endings. And I always recommend Golden Earrings, with Ray Milland and Marlene Dietrich, which has a happy ending, but there is also the grim part about how the war seperated the two lovers for six or seven years.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
51. Kiersten
War. Good God, y'all. What is it good for?

Piffle. I still don't like it. I absolutely get the whole "bond doesnt break even as love gets in the way" thing. Thats not at all how I take that movie. It basically just annoys the crap outta me.
Linda Losik
52. LindaL
@Kiersten: I have always thought that Casablanca was worth seeing once, if for no other reason then to understand the mind set that was prevalent in 41-45 during WW2. The sacrifice that this generation made cannot be understated or diminished or ignored. However, this is another time and place that has little relevance to us. That being said: I have always thought that Casablanca and Gone with the Wind should have been titled: “Stop Over Acting!”

I loved Vexed for so many reasons, the least of not which is the opening scene between Bo and Dyson. This also contains the only love scene between Bo and Lauren that to me almost contains passion. It is Bo’s passion that I see, not Lauren’s. I saw more passion in Lauren during the first episode when Bo was influencing her with Bo’s succubus talent.

My favorite Kenzi moment is part of the couch scene with Bo, Kenzi and Dyson is when Kenzi falls asleep during the foot massage. Her trust of people has obviously been damaged but she proves that Bo and Dyson are two people that she completely trusts….Love it!
TheGardner
53. LostgirlFan
I just remembered a funny Vex line from episode 3 season 3.
Vex- What's the matter with them did the succubus shag them both daft?

Oh and another great Kenzi line-
kenzi - smells like fried bitch!
I forgot the episode # but it was in season 1

@Isbloom I too liked Kappa my Kappa and definately " Original Skin"
out of season 2 that was my favorite episode. I have always liked the episodes when the writers have thought outside the box. i.e. Original Skin in season 2 and Confaegeion in season 3.

@Kiersten what is the GWTW Carol Burnett sketch. I love the Carol Burnett show but I'm not sure what you mean by GWTW? Also I've never seen Casablanca. I am just not a big movie goer, nor am I all that impressed with the so called classics.

@LindaL I think that when they rescued Kenzi in " The Kenzi Scale "
episode that was the best demostration of how much Bo, Kenzi , and Dyson care about each other. Despite the fact that the naughty wolf refused to believe Bo and let her out of jail. I also dig " The Kenzi Scale"
because that is when Valkubus became a possiblity to me.

Is it me or are we running out of things to talk about when it comes to Lost Girl? I for one can't wait for season 4 to start. All the LG forums on the internet will be going crazy.
Dana Heidy
55. LostgirlFan
Okay thanks Kiersten now I know what sketch you were referrencing. Yes I laughed my butt off at that sketch.
TheGardner
56. Char
@LostGirlFan---There is always something to talk about in regardsto Lost Girl. So many movies and tv ahows pay homage to different genres, so I was specualating that Season 4 could do a Gone with the Wind or something like that, but I cross the line at musicals. No musicals for Lost Girl!
Dana Heidy
57. LostgirlFan
Hey Char it was a great idea sorry I wasn't trying to suggest anything to the contrary :). It's just that LG subjects seems to be getting a bit sparse.
TheGardner
58. whiskeywhite
Damn right @Char. No musicals. Or Bollywood (I once saw an otherwise very serious Indian film about a historically famous revolutionary in which they would break into song and dance at the most improbable moments. The filmmaker explained that they had to include the musical stuff to get people to watch the film).

But then Kiersten has shared with us the rumour that KHR may have been taking tango lessons. Hmmmm.

I just watched KHR's 2004 film "Niagara Motel" and who should I see but Kenzi's "aunt aunt" ("yup, yup") Ludmilla from "Mirror Mirror" (2.04). Catherine Fitch is younger in the film but doing exactly the same accent. And last night the gorgeous Samir (Stefano DiMattea) of the "Faetal Attraction" threesome showed up on "The Listener" as an undercover cop turned bad. KHR was back, as was Ingrid Kavelaars (The Glaive), being as bitchy as ever (she seems to specialize in 'powerful bitch') with none of the Morrigan's sense of humour.

Have to say I'm a sucker for "Casablanca". I remember watching it at a film festival decades ago where large portions of the audience were quietly reciting the lines along with the film. Umberto Eco has singled out sacrifice as one of the film's key themes: "the myth of sacrifice runs through the whole film." It is argued that this theme resonated with a wartime audience that was reassured by the idea that painful sacrifice and going off to war could be romantic gestures done for the greater good.

The "myth of sacrifice" is perhaps the dominant theme in Dyson's character, and is probably the element shared with "Casablanca" that attracts me the most. But we see it in other LG characters as well -- e.g., Trick. Dyson definitely does not have Rick's (Bogart's character) ambivalence about being a hero although season 2 Dyson does have a lot of Rick's sadness and bitterness.

See @LostgirlFan, there's still lots to talk about. How about parallels between Lost Girl and classic films? (Although we need to be careful about giving the writers any ideas about another "homage".)
Dana Heidy
59. LostgirlFan
@ Hey whiskey yeah I'll probably sit this one out. I've never been big
on the movies. Most of the time watching tv is for me just something
to do. I can't say that I put a whole lot of thought into the inner workings of each character of LG, so I can't really bring much to the table. I do have opinions though and sometimes on rare occurences some good ideas :).
TheGardner
60. Penetrator
@whiskeywhite - Kiersten did a great job with that spoiler! I think it deserves merit due to the fact in the recent interviews with AS in leapord print, you can overhear her saying to Kenzi something like, "I heard you learned how to Tango?"

So chances are there will be some Dyson + Kenzi undercover tango scene.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
61. Kiersten
Is that what she's saying? I rewound that a dozen times and couldn't make it out. Of course, it would have to be with Kenzi given Ksenia's background. Why else have it in the first place?

I am seriously jonesing for that season premiere especially as it heavily features Kenzi, Dyson and Hale.
Pandra Selivanov
62. Zanza
Two movies I always think of in reference to Dyson are The Prisoner of Zenda and Cyrano de Bergerac. And both of those are probably miserable for those who prefer a happily-ever-after ending, but Dyson has always seemed to me to be very much in the mold of Cyrano and Rudolph. He's already done something like Cyrano, taking a step back so Bo can be happy with Lauren. It was a huge waste of everyone's time, but that doesn't detract from Dyson's nobility or his sacrifice.

And I could see Dyson bowing out forever, like Rudolph with Flavia, if that's what it took to make Bo happy or keep her safe. Kenzi addressed that, asking Dyson if he would be willing to give Bo up if that's what it took to protect her. I never exactly got Kenzi's reasoning there, but I do think if Dyson thought such a sacrifice was necessary, he would make it. That's the thing I love about Dyson-that he does love Bo enough to do what is best for her. He may be dimwitted at times, but his heart is always in the right place.
TheGardner
63. Char
@LostGirlFan---No apologies necessary. I just love movies and tv shows.

Wow...a tango. That is a sexy dance. I love it. Can't wait to see the wolf and Kenzi on a tango. But isn't the tango a song about dominance? Interesting to see how that turns out. Cause Kenzi dominates Dyson! Go Kenzi. Go Kenzi.

@whiskeywhite and Zanza--I never thought about sacrifice with Dyson. But I can see it now. I mean when he found out his king killed his best friend for a woman, he sacrificed his family for his best friend. I mean Dyson must be very lonely after he left his pack. So maybe he has sacrificed for so long, he doesn't know how to do otherwise. So right, @Zanza dimwitted lovable wolf.

So, then Lauren being on the run? What is her theme? Couldn't we say the same for Kenzi and Bo? Aren't they all Lost Girls? Truly no one has told the truth in regards to the Lost Girl like Bo. I mean we have heard about her past, but nothing for Lauren and Kenzi.

And does the title Lost Girl refer to the Lost Boys in Neverland?

I love Casablanca! Great Movie for Dyson. But maybe a happier note, it could be splendor in the Grass? No that's sad too. I can't think of any happy ending movies for Dyson!

Red Sonya is great for Bo! She is a champion and she went toe to toe with Arnold in a sword fight and it was a draw.

Kenzi is an awesome sidekick. The best sidekick ever, Don't get mad at me but wasnt Donkey awesome from Shrek. Funny, and loyal to the end.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
64. Kiersten
The tango is NOT about dominance. It's about seduction. It's two strong wills dueling it out, yes, and there's definitely a lot of control plays in the dance, but the ultimate goal is (mutual) seduction.
Linda Losik
65. LindaL
An excellent example of the tango (with Alan Rickman) is Texas's In Demand: I guarantee that you will never look at filling up a gas tank the same way again. :-D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4-gNN8WRHo Enjoy!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
66. Kiersten
@LindaL - I. Freaking. LOVE that video SO MUCH just for that tango because RICKMAN
Linda Losik
67. LindaL
I don't smoke but I wanted a cigarette after seeing it the first time!
Carmen Pinzon
68. bungluna
I like this tango scene with Antonio Banders. It shows how the dance is about the chase and the mutual struggle for position within the relationship. Perfect for Bo and Dylon. I can't see Kenzie and Dyson dancing it, though. The difference in height is too much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6VvR3hkePI
Kiersten Hallie Krum
69. Kiersten
@Bungluna - I had the same issues about height but when you factor in the stillettos she wears, I think gonna be okay. And hot. Very hot.

I love the tango. I wish I could dance it. I love how strong and extreme every move is and yet so fluid. I love the story it tells and that both parties have to trust the other's strengths and skill to in order for it to work and for them to go uninjured. And yes, it is passionate.
Suzanne Metaxas
70. SuzyM
Wow! I vote for the Bandaras video! ;) I hope the Dyson doesn't do the Tango with Kenzi. I would much rather see Kenzi and Hale do it :) Though I would like to see Dyson & Tamsin do the tango :D think that would be a great pairing!
TheGardner
71. whiskeywhite
Don't we just expect Antonio Banderas to be able to tango? But Alan Rickman was unexpected and fun (just saw him him last night playing President Reagan in The Butler. Good movie. See it). How about J-Lo teaching Richard Gere to tango? That's my fav (filmed in my home city BTW).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqLh6rQqkoA?

Dyson doing the tango -- bring it on. It's true that Kenzi is a logical partner because of her dance background, but the sexual content might be too much. Denzi fans would, rightly, go crazy. I agree that Dyson and Tamsin would be a hot choice, though (to be repetitious) Dyson and Bo do a sexy 'dance' at the beginning of 3.01. Sorry @SuzyM, can't see Hale and the tango. He's all slouchy and hip hop. Maybe Kenzi could try to give him tango lessons. That would be cute. And he might surprise us, again.

Laughed out loud award of the day @Char for your comparison of Kenzi and Donkey.

Interesting movie analysis @Zanza. I, too, have long wondered at Kenzi's Foot Soup deathbed request to Dyson: "Can I count on you to have her back, even if it means cutting her loose?" Were they setting up for Dyson's lost love and his 'I can't love you any more, you need to move on' as a type of sacrifice where he quite brutally cuts her loose to shorten her suffering and allow her to find love elsewhere? Or is there more sacrifice to come (remember our debate about whether he intends to "get over" Bo as he suggests to Lauren in the bar talk)?
Suzanne Metaxas
74. SuzyM
No offense to Anna but I don't think she has fluid dance moves. Whereas KHR has some really super hip movement when he dances :D *sigh* Think no matter who he dances with it will be spectacular!
Dana Heidy
76. LostgirlFan
Hey guys not sure if anyones knows but you can go to youtube and watch the cast of LG at the 2013 Fanexpo panel. What I thought was interesting is that Rachel Skarsten seemed to endorse Valkubus. Hmmmm very interesting!!!!!
Nadine Robb
78. cmm
Thanks for that Kiersten. I was so mad when I found out it was saturday because of course I had to work a closing shift at the store. Anyhoo that preview looks interesting.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
79. Kiersten
@cmm - I love the idea of a "Raiders" episode. HUGE RoTA fan since it first arrived.
TheGardner
80. TheGardner
RS has denounced Valkubus in several interviews and even went so far as to plant her flag in the Team Dyson camp. I have trouble seeing her sudden endorsment as anything more then damage control from the fallout from the Erwin Mcmanus scandal(which seriously doesn't she have an agent or a PR rep?). And KHR needs a swift kick in the zipper part of his pants for that incredibly tacky "Ladie's first, she can have the foreplay" comment.

Beyond that the panel was awesome and the cast really seem to enjoy each other. George Takai was a nice surprise and I am finding myself excited for season 4, damn this show.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
81. Kiersten
I disagree that RS was endorsing Vaulkubus so much as kidding around with Anna and the audience and using the opportunity to give a shout out to her supporters. Her reaction was impulsive and genuine and I thought it was fun and in the warm, friendly spirit of the entire panel.

Likewise, I appreciated Anna saying how surprised she was by how fast doccubus got together but that she and Zoie were game for it and that she found exploring that relationship to have been one of the most satisfying for her in season 3. She and Zoie put a lot of work into doccubus (whether I liked how it played out or not) and she should be proud of that work. But naturally, fans immediately took this as Anna being Team Doccubus. People are so invested in their 'ship (on all sides of the line) to the detriment of the actual show that it starts to get beyond ridiculous. and that completely misses the mark and trivializes her actual point along with being completely untrue.

I adored KHR's comment. I found it funny, flirty, and teasing, very typical of his personality. The foreplay and "appetizier" line cracked me (and, as others may have noticed, Anna) up. He can't say anything firm one way or another but has to come up with an answer for the moment. Whether or not it's true (and naturally, I hope that it is) is beside the point. Doccubus is not sacrosanct and it can take a few jibes along with Hale and Dyson and Vex the pervert without its supporters crying foul. That's just sour grapes.
Suzanne Metaxas
82. SuzyM
@TheGardner you will have to show me where Rachel has denounced Valkubus because I've never seen it. Yes she did say she was TeamDyson in one interview but that is not surprising since she works more with Kris than Zoie. Also what you fail to see is that Kris and Zoie are VERY GOOD friends. Did you notice whose phone she called? She called Kris, and that is because they are that close. So please don't try to belittle Kris for kidding around about Doccubus, becuse that is all it is "Kris kidding around" and nothing more.
Carmen Pinzon
83. bungluna
The one thing that shines through is how much the group interacts and likes each other; rare thing in most casts, or so I've heard.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
84. Kiersten
@bungluna - you're absolutely right, it is not a common thing. Their clear affection for one another infuses the show with authenticity and that shines through whenever they're togethere in public too.
TheGardner
85. TheGardner
Eh it's just a personal observation; RS seemed phony and her sudden embracing of Valkubus felt convenient.

As for KHR's comment; look I understand that he was trying to be funny, but open to scrutiny that sounds like the old trope that two women together is just the pre-show before the man arrives for the "real" sex. I am fairly certain that wasn't his intentention, still he needs to think before he speak and based on the audience reaction I'm not the only one who groaned when he said it.
Suzanne Metaxas
86. SuzyM
@TheGardner It is just my opinion but I don't think Kris has to think about those things when joking with his friends, and we must have been watching different videos or you personal opinions are shading your viewing. I know quite a few Doccubus fans that were in the audience and none of them took your take on the things Kris said. They took them in the vein they were said in and took no ofense.
TheGardner
88. whiskeywhite
Thanks for posting the link to the FanExpo panel, Kiersten. @TheGardner, I agree with your critique:
I understand that he (KHR) was trying to be funny, but open to scrutiny that sounds like the old trope that two women together is just the pre-show before the man arrives for the "real" sex. I am fairly certain that wasn't his intentention, still he needs to think before he speaks...
Someone else here has commented previously that KHR has no filter. He means no harm, is trying to be funny and is relating to close friends as @SuzyM says. From what I've seen of him in interviews, he strikes me as a decent, well meaning, affectionate man who is generally progressive but doesn't have a deeply developed political analysis. Combine that with the lack of a filter and it doesn't occur to him that some women might be offended by a remarks like "foreplay" or "appetizer". As you say, he needs to think before speaking. I hope he later reflected on why a big portion of the audience groaned.

I did think that it was sweet that when Anna began to cry slightly at the talk of babies near the beginning, he instinctively put his arm around her shoulder, again a reflection of his personality.

I wasn't that impressed by KC's "rolladex" jokes -- again the 'playa' image. But he redeemed himself in my eyes when he brought up the sweetness of the moment when Hale tells Kenzi what she really means to him.
TheGardner
89. TheGardner
@SuzyM - What does this have to do with Doccubus fans/fandom? I was talking about KHR the actor not Dyson the character. KHR the actor made a douchy comment. While I understand it was a meant to be a joke, he made it in a public forum and he should be more careful. I would say watch the video again and listen to the audience reaction, but nevermind.
Pandra Selivanov
90. Zanza
I adored KHR's comment. I found it funny, flirty, and teasing, very typical of his personality. The foreplay and "appetizier" line cracked me (and, as others may have noticed, Anna) up. He can't say anything firm one way or another but has to come up with an answer for the moment. Whether or not it's true (and naturally, I hope that it is) is beside the point. Doccubus is not sacrosanct and it can take a few jibes along with Hale and Dyson and Vex the pervert without its supporters crying foul. That's just sour grapes.
I totally agree. Whatever Kris says, if it's not a glowing endorsement of Doccubus, it's going to be seen as offensive.
Suzanne Metaxas
91. SuzyM
@TheGardner I know you were talking about Kris and not Dyson. This is why it bothered me even more. The reason I mentioned doccubus fans is because they might have had a different look at the comment than me, I asked and they did not. I think you and @WhiskeyWhite have skins that are a little too thin. As to Kris not having a filter, I will not argue that he does, yet what I will say is, it's impossible to speak spontaneously before a huge audience and always get it right. I did public speaking for years and no matter how many times you do it, it is very challenging. I did rewatch the video and the audience groaned and laughed right after Kris' response. I suggest you direct your anger towards Showcase and others who promote these ship wars. To me they are the ones who are causing the problems and bringing out the worst in people.
Dana Heidy
92. LostgirlFan
@SuzyM I just wanted to say thanks. I know that you don't ship Valkubus and that is completely 100% fine. I say thank you cuz you are able to keep an open mind and not let any bias regulate how you respond to certain posts unlike certain people here. I completely agree with you Rachel never ever denounced Valkubus, so a certain someone needs to get their facts straight. While it is true she did say in an interview that she was a Dybo fan that admission is not a denouncement of Valkubus. She was only guilty of trying to be politically correct and of trying to avoid crazy ass doccubus fans from
attacking her. It's just to bad that she hasn't figured out that the crazy ass doccubus fans are always going to hate her, and put her down and
throw her under the bus. You were also right when you said that some people need to grow a thicker skin.

@Zanza you are right no matter what Kris does or says the crazies within the doccubus crowd are going to take offense to it.

@Kiersten you may be right or maybe not? Sure it's possible that Rachel was just kidding around and was just trying to give a shout
out to all her fans of which I am one. It would be nice though if you
wouldn't constantly poo poo everything I say about Valkubus. Sometimes the best thing to do is just not say anything at all. Is it so
bad to let LostgirlFan have her crazy little fantasy after all?????

@The Gardner I'm not sure why you keep insisting on being so bitter and angry sounding all the time. You say that you are not a doccubus
shipper but you obviously are. You sound exactly like all them or at least most of them. Most of your posts seem like angry rants at everyone who doesn't sing the praises of Lauren and or Doccubus.
No offence but it's people like you who cause the rest of us to just simply dig our heels in even more against doccubus.
TheGardner
95. Penetrator
For reference (re: RS being against Valkubus) - she has said multiple times that she would rather Tamsin and Bo be friends than anything romantic.

MM: Many fans are rooting for Bo and Tamsin to have a go at a real relationship, these characters are so alike, yet so different, would you be for something like that blossoming between the two in the upcoming season… or are you terrified all the rabid Dyson and Lauren fans will pounce on you?
RS: Laughs.] Yeah, no. People ask me that all the time and I’m like NO WAY! Laughs.] That actually has been one of the things that people tweeted at me about that “well we love Tamsin but don’t get in the way of Bo and Lauren” or something similar with Dyson. And I have no desire to get in front of that moving train. Laughs.] I think that exploring relationships whether it be romantic or friendship with Bo would be definitely interesting but especially romantic I think I’m going to leave that up to Lauren and Dyson.

Source:
http://nowhitenoise.com/2013/05/lost-girl-rachel-skarsten-interview-season-4/

AE: Do you think their relationship will blossom into real romance? RS: You know, a lot of people ask me that. Well, first of all, I hope not. Because fans are so loyal to either [b][url=http://www.afterellen.com/tags/zoie-palmer]Zoie or Kris that they’re just going to be like, “WHAT?!” But, you know what, I don’t know. I’ll leave that to Jay. When I was reading the scripts and figuring out stuff as we went along, I thought perhaps , but I also thing there’s a wonderful yin-yang in the friendship between Tamsin and Bo that is wonderful to explore. So, I’m not sure, really!

Source:
http://www.afterellen.com/exclusive-rachel-skarsten-talks-valkubus-and-the-lost-girl-finale/04/2013/2/

I honestly don't think anyone here is being bitter or thin-skinned, merely sharing a viewpoint that incites conversation - just like it did on this thread that didn't have a post in over 24 hours. What is off-putting to one person may not be to another, and there is no harm in sharing one's viewpoint, especially if it means discussion. It's lovely to hear multiple viewpoints and consider them, and I think some around here were merely attempting to do so. Why the hate?
Suzanne Metaxas
96. SuzyM
@Penetrator you have proved my point. NO WHERE did Rachel denounce Valkubus, all she said is she would rather Tamsin and Bo be friends and leave the love interests the way they are. That is not denouncing. Also she didn't say she was against it, she voiced what she preferred, she also said she would leave it all up to Jay. She did say she would rather not put herself in the way of a moving train, which with the way some doccubus fans have been attaching her makes a lot of sense.

As to why the hate, people will reap what they sow.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
97. Kiersten
@LostGirlFan - apologies. It was not my intent to rain on your parade. My only point was to view the cast's responses and reactions on the panel in the spirit they were made - fun, friendly, and often, such as in these specific cases involving Rachel and Kris, in jest. Feel free to march on in Vaulkubus.

Rachel is allowed to not 'ship whatever it is she doesnt want to 'ship. She signed on to play a role not be a role. That said, Rachel's interview also shows that she's game for whatever Firestone has planned for Tamsin, and as we've alread seen, does an exceptional job executing those plans. Perhaps any ire regarding her character would better be directed toward him. It's important to remember that all these actors are doing a job and doing it very well, and their personal opinions and attitudes to that job are not also signed over when they sign their contracts.

@Penetrator - You're absolutely right, there is no harm in sharing one's viewpoint and this blog has always been a safety zone for people of all 'ships to do so. But I don't think it's hate per se that's being expressed here, rather posters expressing some long-brewing frustrations at how Rachel and Kris are constantly targeted no matter what they do or say unless it is in full support of doccubus. Too many regulars here are recovering posters from other sites where that is the norm and to see that developing again in a place where for so long all opinions have been welcomed in safety can chafe.

It seems as though as the doccubus relationship has hit the skids in the show, Kris and Rachel have taken a lot on undeserved public censure from fans and I think their likewise defense by fans is a needed voice of expression in any discussion of that censure.

I don't like Doctor Lauren or the doccubus relationship and I've spent many, many, many words expressing and defending that position. But I have never, to my recollection, said a single negative thing about Zoie Palmer (why would I? She's awesome, as are Kris and Rachel) no matter what she's said or done or joked about in press interviews and/or on panels. I, for one, take umbrage when other cast members are not treated to that same respect and seem to be unable to do or say anything that isn't a 100% full-throated support of doccubus without being tarred and feathered by the fandom.
TheGardner
98. Penetrator
@Kiersten - I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think the issue is just professionalism. Some may find what they do professional, others don't. And like you said, you take pride in having this forum be welcoming to all opinions, even ones that may not sit right with folks. I honestly don't have time to form an opinion on this considering I'm dealing with my own 'public relations' at work, but you are right, fans should defend their opinions. I just guess hearing phrases like 'fans like you make me...' or 'you have thin skin' make me a bit wary, since that puts the onus on individuals rather than simply expressing their viewpoint.

@Suzy - Please just keep in mind that there was not a single post for over 24 hours until someone posted a comment they knew most would disagree with. It brought interesting conversation and discourse.

I personally haven't watched the fanexpo video because I'll be at an upcoming con, and am excited to form first hand opinions first (not that I am excited at all) and then go back and watch the FE vid. Apparently there will be 3 separate panels with KHR, ZP, KCC, and PRA and I hope to make multiple ones.
Suzanne Metaxas
99. SuzyM
@Suzy - Please just keep in mind that there was not a single post for over 24 hours until someone posted a comment they knew most would disagree with. It brought interesting conversation and discourse.
@Penetrator trying to anger people is not my idea of a converstation starter. Personal attacks are also something I don't think are good conversation starters.

Hopefully we will meet up at Dragon Con :) I too will be having a Lost Girl weekend. :)
Dana Heidy
100. LostgirlFan
@Kiersten no worries at all it's just that it really is frustrating to constantly have to defend my favorite character. I've never cared
about a show enough to get involved in the fan forums, blogs, and
or articles such as this one, until I started watching LG season 3.
Valkubus is certainly not the main reason why I watch the show, but
it is the main reason why I started to get involved with these forums.
As it is like I've already said I wonder why I even participate when I
have people who clearly want to argue with me and dismiss my views?
They say that they are all about discussions but they really aren't. They
being the doccubus crowd only come here to fight with and shove their
POV down everyone's throat. You know all I said the other day is that FROM MY POV!! it sounded like Rachel was kinda endorseing my favorite Team. Whether she meant it or not doesn't really matter to me,
because it really as you have stated is not up to the actors. They get paid to keep their mouth shut and just act. They don't have a say as to who is going to wind up with whomever. If the writers or J. Firestone
want Valkubus to happen then it's gonna happen period, and well I guess everyone else is just gonna have to accept that. If the writers and or J. Firestone only want Tamsin and Bo to be friends then well people like me are just gonna have to accept that too and I will. Until that time comes I'm gonna keep and open mind about Valkubus and root for it.

@Penetrator it kinda sounds like it's one big chore for you to even waste you precious time coming here so why do you. You are
constantly bitching to Kiersten about this and about that so why
come here? Go to Doccubus. com and receive your doccubus love there.

@TheGardner I stand behind everything I said to you in Post # 92 and then some. You are free to ignore my posts from now on.

@SuzyM you rock and many thanks to you :).
@Zanza you rock too :).
TheGardner
101. Penetrator
@LostGirlFan - I am here because I support Kiersten's goal of being welcoming to all viewpoints. I enjoy listening to various viewpoints and concepts from the show and in fact enjoy taking a more neutral stance when it comes to it. I express concerns because I am an adult who is able to convey them in a respectful manner. It is OK to disagree with other people, in fact that is how people learn more! I am glad that you enjoy Tamsin. Preach your love girl! But please be careful that you do not become what you claim to despise when others don't share the love.

In order to get back on point in the original vein of this thread:

@SuzyM - Let me know what your overall impression is after the weekend, since different people will have different impressions! I am not going to be wearing a sign over my head that says 'Penetrator', as I think that will give folks the wrong idea, nor will I be at the fan get together on Friday due to the need for sleep, but I look forward to being there the rest of the time.
TheGardner
103. Char
The reason why I haven't posted in the last 48 hours is because my kid needed to do a 72 hour school shopping. Will chime in soon! :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
104. Kiersten
I am not going to be wearing a sign over my head that says 'Penetrator', as I think that will give folks the wrong idea...
You just won all the Internets for the day with that one, m'dear. Thanks for your support, it's appreciated.

@LostGirlFan - Thank you for the defense. I'm sure that's not the way @Penetrator indended to come across.

FTR: We want no one to feel pressured to contribute to the forum if they ultimately are unhappy with the overall tone and conversation here, but nor do we want anyone to feel pressured to leave for the same reasons. I'll again ask that we not call out other posters personally in such a manner however justified we may feel in doing so in the moment. That's not the overall ethos we perpetuate here at the LG H&H forum.

Now, how 'bout some redirect?

Since it seems we've finished discussing favorite episodes and we've been talking about the FanExpo panel, and particularly about Rachel and Kris in situ, how freaking adorable was that whole boomerang story they shared? I was howling at the visuals alone!
Pandra Selivanov
106. Zanza
Thanks, LostGirlFan! As Kiersten put it so well,
...there is no harm in sharing one's viewpoint and this blog has always been a safety zone for people of all 'ships to do so. But I don't think it's hate per se that's being expressed here, rather posters expressing some long-brewing frustrations at how Rachel and Kris are constantly targeted no matter what they do or say unless it is in full support of doccubus. Too many regulars here are recovering posters from other sites where that is the norm and to see that developing again in a place where for so long all opinions have been welcomed in safety can chafe. It seems as though as the doccubus relationship has hit the skids in the show, Kris and Rachel have taken a lot on undeserved public censure from fans and I think their likewise defense by fans is a needed voice of expression in any discussion of that censure.
and I agree with this 100%. It's absolutely shameful that Doccubus fans would attack Kris and Rachel for not endorsing their preferred ship. These two actors have done nothing wrong, they do not deserve the hatred that is heaped upon them, and it is important that those of us who are fair and open-minded continue to fight the good fight. And it is worth pointing out, over and over and over, that fans who don't like Doccubus are not heteronormative homophobic jerks who don't want to see two women happy together.

Bo and Lauren are a terrible relationship. They've been awful together from the first meeting, when Lauren abused her profession by ogling and fondling a naked prisoner. I can only hope they are over, because when a relationship is so toxic that it creates a toxic fan base, there is something very wrong with continuing to show it. It's gotten to the point that I worry about Kris and Rachel's physical safety.

Anyway, to try and honor the wish for a redirect, I am still hoping for some really great friendship developing between Bo and Tamsin. I don't want to see them as a romance, but I do want more Tamsin! I want to see her with Bo, I want to see her with Dyson, I want to see her with Kenzi. I'd love to see some Tamsin centric episodes.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
107. Kiersten
We do know, thanks to a slip from Ksenia at the SDCC panel, that there is reportedly a lot of Tamsin/Kenzi interaction in S4. It sounded like they team up in more than one episode, which I think is great as there was little to none of that in S3 and I think their acerbic styles will clash nicely...a Snark Off if you will.
Katherine Bloom
108. lsbloom
I'm not meaning to be super controversial, I am honestly curious. For a show whose producers so obviously cater to a lesbian fan group, why is the idea of two women getting together (before or after a man joins them or not at all) assumed to be for male titillation and not for female? Not to quote another site, but um..."boobs o'clock" works for both heterosexual men and homosexual women, yes?

Tamsin is accused of being added for T&A and to appeal to young men, why not women? Is Valkubus not a female/female relationship? The only reason that vocal LGBT fan community wasn't up in arms about S3.01 was it was women on women violent sexuality that they have adopted (why?). If anyone had perceived that it had been for male enjoyment, the "homage" would have remained the exploitation film it started out as. Men aren't allowed to sexually violate women and call it sexy camp.

It's like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle or something, two women may get together, but once a man gets anywhere near they are destroyed.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
109. Kiersten
It's like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle or something, two women may get together, but once a man gets anywhere near they are destroyed.
I don't think that principle can accurately be applied to Lost Girl since the original romantic relationship was M/F ergo the F/F relationship would, under that axiom, be the one that "destroyed" the original pairing. Any return of a D/B relationship would, therefore, not be "destroying" the F/F pairing of doccubus, but instead be re-establishing the core M/F romantic relationship of the show as established from the first episode.


Of course, since she's a bi-sexual woman, neither aspect of that connundrum applies to Bo or to Lost Girl at large. Even when she was with Dyson, neither the character nor the show ever shied away from Bo's cross-gender (and species) preferences. (And adult Dyson certainly never viewed her female partners as a opportunity for prurient F/F action on his behalf). Both Bo's M/F and F/F relationships are equally valid, neither one destroying or impeding the other by virture of their gender at all. Rather, since for Bo both preferences exist at the same time, all the time, it's merely, as it would be were both relationships M/F or F/F, which lover she chooses to try a relationship with at a particular point in time. It's actions, personality, availablity, level of emotional investment, and compatibility that is at play in Bo's relationship decisions, as indeed it is in all relationships, not the individual gender of her chosen partner. For S3 that was doccubus. In S4, who knows?
TheGardner
110. TheGardner
@SuzyM - For the record my objection to KHR's comment was from my view as a person not a Lost Girl fan. As a bisexual woman I have been subjected to similar, albiet more overt and deliberate, comments in the past. Perhaps I am being overly sensitive, but unless you have ever been told your relationship is less than or is abnormal simply because there is no dick involved I don't think you can understand why it bothers me.

@LostGirlFan - I don't really pay attention to any other forum besides this one so I don't know, nor do I care what the Doccubus fans say. If our opinions are similar then perhaps we have had similar experiences. I'll give you that my most recent post was hostile, but that was born out of frustration that I can't voice my opinion about an actor without it turning into a damn shipping war. You see things your way and I shall see them mine, that does not mean I am going to ignore your comments because I don't like what you have to say.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
111. Kiersten
@TheGardner I'm very sorry that you've had to experience that kind of behavior in the past. I'm certain KHR did not mean it that way and am sure he'd be unhappy to hear his jest was so interpreted.

FTR I dont pay attention to any other forum than this one either so any and all of my suppositions or assumptions about the various sides of the LG fandom are just that unless noted otherwise.
Carmen Pinzon
112. bungluna
I just want to chime in with my 2 cents. What I used to love about LG, before S3, was the very fact that Bo made no distinctions between her various relationships. M/F, F/F, M/F/F or any other combination was ok in her book and the show made no big deal about it.

I personally think that this is a much better approach than being overly PC about a touchy subject, even if it's deservedly so. I hated the Going Home to the Hicks episode because I found it condesending to 'simple country folk' and also because the "Mom, I'm Fae" declaration was just wrong in so many levels, imo. If it was a veilded coming out of the closet, Bo is not gay, she's bi. If it was Bo getting things off her chest, her mom was gone mentaly, what was the point? Up until that episode, no alegation of Bo having a horrible childhood had been made.

Bo grew up in a conservative household that viewed pre-matiral sex, especially betweeb teens, as wrong. Not the end of the world. Not even particularly oppresive, again imo.

Bo killed her high school bf accidentaly during their first sexual encounter, granted because she didn't know what she was or how to control it. Pardon me for thinking that it wouldn't be out of hand horrible for both the parents and Bo to freak out at this event. Hey, them simple country folk take murder seriously. (semi-joke)

That she thought there was something wrong with her because it happened during sex and she'd had a conservative upbringing is another discussion topic.
Katherine Bloom
113. lsbloom
@Bungluna--The "coming out" fae episode was in direct contradiction to earlier descriptions of Bo's past. She freaked, and her parents freaked, because she killed a guy she liked inadvertantly supernaturally with sex and then ran away not giving the family closure (in season 2). That would pretty much freak anyone out. It wasn't about being narrow-minded or simple folk or even overly religious (in season 3). It was about fatal supernatural powers that were out of control. Bo thought she was a monster, and in some ways she is a monster. She kills people. She has a body count, and it has been front and center since episode 1.

@Kiersten--I wasn't talking about within the show. The show itself hasn't prioritized a male viewpoint on Bo's sexual life or made the threesomes out to be anything but fun for all. Bo is always the centerpoint and the controller of power in those interactions. The uncertainty doesn't exist in the show which up to season 3 was happy with both men and women. Season 3, the men were impotent, constrained. Nevertheless, the discussing of the show brings in personal viewpoints and experiences. A prioritization of doccubus over valkubus as being female/female for women's sake (homosexual) not man's (bisexual). The idea that KHR was belittling female/female interactions. And that is confusing for me. It seems sometimes to me like the uncertainty is coming from the fans. That the men have to removed and belittled. Dyson needs to sit in a corner and learn his place: A place that is far removed from the women of the show, because otherwise it might destroy them somehow. And the idea that the show is at once terribly conscious of it's viewing audiences' predilictions (coming out episodes, homages, doccubus) and oblivious to them by straining for viewership by mocking the sex-positive message by playing to dominant male stereotypes (which would in general also apply to homosexual women maybe more so).
TheGardner
114. Char
Nothing to do with Lost Girl but I am so happy this first day of school is over. :) @Kiersten.

@whiskeywhite---Kenzi is absolutely Donkey. Love them both. :)

@Kiersten---Would love Raisers of the Lost Ark. My favorite. Then the Last Crusade, then Temple of Doom. I will not speak of that Skull movie. But it would be awesome if Lost Girl did an episode centric on Raiders of the Lost Ark. I would be in heaven. Silver Patron heaven! Thanks Kenzi for the Raiders shout out.

For Everyone--I love the panel. It was so sweet that KHR got Zooey on the phone. It was such a sweet moment. Awee...the cast love each other.

@TheGardnerand whiskeywhite--I do not think the KHR comment has anything to do with what he says but how you perceive it to be where it trivializes Lauren and Bo's relationship. Is that a fair assumption? That 2 females together are just foreplay until the wolf comes back. KHR should think before he speaks. The moderator asked KHR about Team Dyson and he says that he waited a millennia, so he has time to wait another millennia. Lauren and Bo will only last 50 years tops and Dyaon is willing to wait for his girl. Then when he makes a joke about foreplay, up in arms for what he says. But you have to understand, Dyson is Fae, a territorial wolf, alpha, is willing to fight for what he wants, yet he never interfered with Lauren and Bo. He never once tried to break up the relationship. Dyson cannot be with the woman he loves today, and tomorrow, so instead of being sad about it. He makes a joke. But no one who is against Dyson and has ever stated that. It is always about his less than well meaning jokes, but aren't jokes better than fighting, anger, or being pissed off. If you love someone so much, let them go and saw them loving someone else, I know you are entitled to a joke or two. This coming from a man who lost his love for Bo and became a major jackhole for most of season 2. Major Character development. Breaking it into 2 comments.
Suzanne Metaxas
115. SuzyM
@SuzyM - For the record my objection to KHR's comment was from my view as a person not a Lost Girl fan. As a bisexual woman I have been subjected to similar, albiet more overt and deliberate, comments in the past. Perhaps I am being overly sensitive, but unless you have ever been told your relationship is less than or is abnormal simply because there is no dick involved I don't think you can understand why it bothers me.
Sorry you have met a few insensitive fools in your life, and you are right I do not and can not know your pain at being told those hateful things. Yet I say to you don't paint all men and women with the same brush. Some of us are not judgemental and realize there are many kinds of love in the world. As Kiersten said Kris would be sad to learn that his jest was taken the way it was because he is one of the most sweet & compasionate people I have ever met, and yes I get a tad bit protective of him when people attack him. Mainly because he will just take the hurt in and bear it and not say anything. He would never belittle a relationship just because it was between two women.
TheGardner
116. Char
@Isbloom--I find the belittling of the men in this show as horrible. I get it, Dyson comments and always saving Bo are seen as immature and nauseating, but what about when Kenzi or Tamsin saves Bo? Is it ok that only F/F save Bo? Is it ok that It is only F/F relationships that are ok? The double standard is getting tedious. Y can't Bo be saved by a man? I am glad that you asked. The fans, specifically those who utter, "I will not the watch the show if Dyson is with Bo, if Dyson steals the show, if Bo breaks up with Lauren"...if you are a fan of the show, you watch it because you care about the characters. Not because you want the show to play your story. You watch the show because you trust the writers to write a compelling story about the characters. The show, story, the plot is not driven by a fan base. How would Casablance wnd if it was fan driven. or how about the Godfather? Le Femme Nikita? Buffy? For all these ahows, i would have loved the main actors to end up together. I would not have let Sonny die! I would habe made Buffy a vampire. I woukd have shot Edward and Bella in the firat movie. Joke! Really, I swear! But, you have to Let the vision be a vision. Now even with this Season 3 drivel, I am still compelled to watch the show.

@TheGardner and SuzyM--Wveryone has been in a tough relationship and judged by society. To say that others don't understand because they have never been in a same sex relationship is harsh. Have you been to the Deep South? I am not minimizing your hardship but to minimize others because it is M/F is harsh. Haven't all people been subjected to sexism, racism, ageism, it happens. I have been called a n@@er to my face. Should I hate? No. I understand that some people are stupid. Some people are ignorant. Some people are hateful. But not everyone. Not KHR. Not Dyson. I don't know him other what is on the panels, Lost Girl and Underworld. But he seems ok. @Kiersten--Coukd you give me KHR personal phone number, so I can talk to him about this?

@Zanza--Yes I agree that Lauren and Bo are a terrible relationship. But there were some great parts. I sometimes get the feelin that Lost Girl has put themselves into a corner. On one hand they showed how natural and organic a same sex relationship can be but then the other hand, too many fans have placed pressure on Lost Girl to make this a Female only show. Can they do it? Yes. Will they do it? No. Because Bo is not a lesbian. She is bisexual. She enjoys men and women.

@Penetrator--RS got a lot of hateful comments for shipping Team Badass. I applaud her for it. Tamsin and Bo could get together. Y not? She has been with most of the cast. You go Bo Bo. But I would like to see Bo with The Morrigan or Vex! See how that plays out in the bed. Hot. Hot. I love Team Badass but whats wrong with a little foreplay. Joke Joke. Yowser.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
117. Kiersten
Snort. FTR - I may do not have KHR's personal phone number. I swear.
Pandra Selivanov
118. Zanza
@Zanza--Yes I agree that Lauren and Bo are a terrible relationship. But there were some great parts. I sometimes get the feelin that Lost Girl has put themselves into a corner. On one hand they showed how natural and organic a same sex relationship can be but then the other hand, too many fans have placed pressure on Lost Girl to make this a Female only show. Can they do it? Yes. Will they do it? No. Because Bo is not a lesbian. She is bisexual. She enjoys men and women.
@Char, I really truly can't recall even one good Bo and Lauren scene after they hooked up. It's not just that Anna and Zoie have no chemistry. They don't, but Audrey Hepburn and Fred Astaire had no chemistry and they still did a good job in Funny Face. They had some really cute scenes together. I really can't think of one scene between Bo and Lauren that seemed like a good moment.

By the by, kudos to you for your comments about prejudice. I'm a white chick in a mixed race neighborhood, and when the George Zimmerman verdict came in, one of the black neighbors came and yelled at me through my window. And I've had two personal experiences of gay hate crimes-one was when a friend of ours was wearing his Eagle Scout insignia and a couple of gays (they said they were gay and they hated Boy Scouts) jumped him and beat him up and broke his arm. The other incident was when one of our scouts, all of eleven years old, was selling popcorn door to door, and a gay guy (again, the perpertrator self-identified as being gay) got his hose and drenched the kid because he said he didn't want Boy Scouts coming to his door. So I always find it really obnoxious when people say, "You don't understand." I may not understand exactly what it is to be in another's shoes, but my shoes haven't always been the most comfortable either. Better to take each person as they are, get to know them for themselves, and not stress about labels. After all, most of my neighbors of various colors are really nice people, as are the lesbian couple downstairs that I share herbal tips with. :)
TheGardner
119. Char
@Zanza---I refuse to list any scenes in Caged Heat(Fae). I hated that episode. But how about that 1 time...I can't think of any right now, but I will. Gotta sleep now.
TheGardner
121. Char
@Zanza--all right. I cannot think of any scenes that were great with Lauren. But you have to understand, it has been a long time since I have seen All of Season 3. But I loved when Lauren stood up to Hale after he denied her vacation.
TheGardner
122. whiskeywhite
I like to think of myself not as thin-skinned so much as vigilant :-) -- I know, I know, one might say hyper-vigilant :-).

I think it's very useful to have a discussion of "intention". People rarely say things with the intention of hurting or offending someone else. But we all say things unintentionally from time to time, often without thinking, that we realize, upon reflection, might have been hurtful to someone else. My partner always says about racism, "I know you didn't mean to be hurtful, but you must think before you speak about how a person of colour is going to perceive what you are saying, regardless of your intention. And if they react negatively, you have to remember that they're reacting not just to what you as a white person said (which could be quite innocuous) but to the many similar and worse statements (and other experiences) they've faced in their life. And to suggest to them they're being over sensitive is disrespecting -- unintentionally -- that history. They don't need to get over it; they shouldn't get over it. They have a right to be angry."

So the most well meaning, caring person in the world can slip and say something unintentionally hurtful. I have spent some 45 years as an anti-racism and feminist activist. I would like to think that I am aware enough (and vigilant enough towards myself) not to make slips. And yet I do. I was recently having a joking conversation with two Aboriginal women (in our city which has a large Aboriginal population that faces terrible, terrible racism). I made a joke without thinking that as soon as it came out of my mouth and I saw the look on their faces I knew I had made a horrendous mistake. They turned away immediately, hurt and angry.

Now, if they had been my friends, they would have said, "Whiskey (well, they wouldn't have called me Whiskey :-) ), what you just said hurt me because ...". And I would have said, "I'm so sorry. I didn't think. I understand what that word means to you, though it never occurred to me previously. Thank you for caring enough to talk to me." But they were essentially strangers, so they walked away, shocked and hurt, with yet another experience of white racism added to their life history. And I'm ashamed to say that didn't have the wits, or to be honest, the courage to chase after them and beg their forgiveness.

Now I'm not arguing that Kris said anything nearly as serious as I did. As I said, he strikes me a very caring person who would indeed be very concerned if he hurt anyone's feelings. But a real friend would say to him, "I know you didn't mean to offend anyone. It's OK. But you get why some people groaned, right? ..."
Pandra Selivanov
123. Zanza
My partner always says about racism, "I know you didn't mean to be hurtful, but you must think before you speak about how a person of colour is going to perceive what you are saying, regardless of your intention. And if they react negatively, you have to remember that they're reacting not just to what you as a white person said (which could be quite innocuous) but to the many similar and worse statements (and other experiences) they've faced in their life. And to suggest to them they're being over sensitive is disrespecting -- unintentionally -- that history. They don't need to get over it; they shouldn't get over it. They have a right to be angry."
Whiskey, doesn't that go equally for white people who are accused, with no basis, of being racist and insensitive? Doesn't someone like me, a white woman, have a right to react not only to a statement regardless of intention, but also to drag in negative experiences in my life with people of a similar color or orientation or religion or whatever, so that I too can be angry regardless of the intention of the person who made the statement? See, I think people should try to "get over it." Not because how they feel is invalid, but because when people cling to past grievances, they can't move forward.


I'm a Christian, not a very good one but I do try to follow the Bible's commands on forgiveness. You know, judge not lest ye be judged, and about how you should forgive seventy times seven. In closing, I will mention a woman I saw on the news, a black woman, who was offended that a white teacher told her daughter she was smart. She was going on and on about why would a white teacher not just realize her daughter was smart. Now I ask you, when someone is that determined to take offense, what's a person to do? That's the problem with worrying about how every word could possibly be taken by every person who might hear it. Sure, we should be sensitive and kind to each other, but today's society is too full of people looking to be offended-I think intention does matter, and when a person is offended without even knowing what the intention was, that is a problem between them and their conscience.
TheGardner
124. whiskeywhite
Had to break up a too long post.

I totally get what @SuzyM was saying about the perils of public speaking. I teach and I send 3 hours straight thinking on my feet (few lecture notes), engaging in joking banter with my students, pushing them to contribute to the discussion or challenging the argument they're presenting. If I haven't already offended someone with a spur of the moment joke, I will certainly do it sooner or later (and they likely won't have the courage to call me on it).

So I have nothing but empathy with actors who are put on the spot and expected to be spontaneously funny in front of hundreds of people, many of whom have quite strong views. (I thought it was interesting that Paul Amos complained when the others spoiled his carefully planned joke, and then Kris teased him about planning it in advance.)

I believe those of you who are more knowledgable than I (since I also don't read other blogs, etc.) that people attack Kris the actor/person because of his role. But I thought @TheGardner had an interesting point because his words could be interpreted as belittling women's relationships M/F, F/F, whatever), not just Doccubus. That's what I was reacting to (predictably, you say). I was certainly not agreeing with her incisive (albeit strongly put) analysis because I am pro-Doccubus (even secretly or unwittingly :-) ). I am, as I have said ad nauseum, Team Dyson, to the point of embarrassment.

So we need to be careful, I think, of accusing people of being part of the shipping wars (although at the same time, for me to ignore the experiences of shipping war refugees would be doing what I argued against above -- disrespecting life experiences and the anger/hurt that can affect responses).

Which brings me to my last point. It's really, really hard to separate criticism of our arguments -- or even differing views of favourite characters -- from personal criticisms. It can hurt when we care. But as others have said, we need to work really hard to respect the variety of views here, consider them whether we initially like them or not, and respond respectfully. But this traditional, logical debating approach is unemotional and a bit cold. So I try to also adopt an attitude of kindness when I think someone may have gotten a bit carried away.

Speaking of discussion, dayam, I now just have to look up the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

@Char, don't be hurt :-) but I think Donkey lacks Kenzi's fashion sense.
Pandra Selivanov
125. Zanza
@Zanza--all right. I cannot think of any scenes that were great with Lauren. But you have to understand, it has been a long time since I have seen All of Season 3. But I loved when Lauren stood up to Hale after he denied her vacation.
@Char, I liked that scene too. But it had nothing to do with Bo and Lauren. ;)
Suzanne Metaxas
126. SuzyM
"They don't need to get over it; they shouldn't get over it. They have a right to be angry."
@WhiskeyWhite I have to disagree with you there. If people don't let go of passed hate you can never move forward. People have to take what is said and consider the person who said it. I believe the person who has been hurt by an inadvertent, unintended joke or word has to take into consideration the vein in which it was said. If it was said with the intent to hurt by all means be angry, if it was not then the anger helps nothing. I think this whole joke thing has been blown way out of proportion.
TheGardner
127. whiskeywhite
Oh wow, @Zanza, you snuck in that great comment while I was working on my comment part two. And now @SuzyM you've weighed in with a good one as well.

I agree that people can let (justifiable) anger at what has happened to them eat away at their insides and be an anchor that weighs them down. I often say to my partner that he needs to let some of his anger about racism go before it kills him. (I think @Char seems to have a healthy attitude of not letting the turkeys -- no matter how terrible -- get her down).

However, my partner argues, rightly, that we need some of that anger to drive us to take action, to fight for change. He retorts (and folks here will be surprised to hear this :-) ) that I don't have enough anger as a woman about sexism. I think I have just the right amount :-). I refuse to let dick behaviour get me down (most days) but I keep on challenging sexism (e.g., critiquing jokes here -- the point is not the jokes temselves but challenging ourselves to think about the underlying meaning and impact of jokes. Anybody here a fan of blonde jokes? I'll bet RS isn't).

I would guess, without having heard it, that the woman in the newscast was trying to make the point that the teacher, in pointing out that her Black daughter was smart, was -- almost certainly unintentionally -- singling her out as an exception. One doesn't have to make such a big deal about white students being smart because the society has traditionally assumed white students are smart, and Black students less so. The mother was, in her way, trying to fight racism -- systemic disadvantage and barriers in the school system that all Black parents fear or experience. (We have the same problem in Canada for Blacks, especially in LG's home city of Toronto, but its much worse, on the average, for Aboriginal students across the country who have a horrendous high school drop-out rate).

You might say that the poor white teacher can't catch a break. I assume she was trying to say something nice and no doubt encourage the student. I would do the same thing. But the solution for the teacher would not be to lash back at the mother, but to be understanding and forgiving as you say. Most importantly, the teacher needs to work as hard as she (?) can to establish a track record of doing whatever she can to help the Black students overcome barriers and succeed. Hopefully the Black parents will see and respect that. And maybe they won't. But the teacher needs to decide whether she's in this for recognition and praise as a good white person, or because she's committed to education for all kids.

BTW, you may think I'm exaggerating here, but there is a huge controversy happening in my city right now because a government leader who is Aboriginal referred privately to some women running a shelter for abused women as "white do-gooders". My partner says, that's the guy's experience. I say, but those women are working hard and help lots of Aboriginal women.

And we think the shipper wars are rough.
Pandra Selivanov
128. Zanza
Oh wow, @Zanza, you snuck in that great comment while I was working on my comment part two.
I aim to please. :D
I agree that people can let (justifiable) anger at what has happened to them eat away at their insides and be an anchor that weighs them down...my partner argues, rightly, that we need some of that anger to drive us to take action, to fight for change.
Whiskey, I would agree with your partner but for one thing-the civil rights movement has been won. The laws have been changed to allow equal opportunities for all. The problem now is that we have, or we should have, reached the "hearts and minds" stage. And you just can't legislate that sort of thing. You can't fight for people to feel differently about other races, religions, orientations, whatever. You have to work at it in a different way.

I have read some very sad things this past week about Martin Luther King's legacy and how it has been devalued by people like Al Sharpton, Eric Holder, even Jesse Jackson. And Barack Obama had such a golden opportunity to bridge the divide, but now we're more divided than ever. What is the answer?

I know the black lady who yelled at me made me mad as hell because of her bigotry. Last night her apartment caught on fire and my son and me put the fire out. We were all set to go in and fetch her, but another neighbor said she had gone out. Did she say thank you? No, she did not. The way she looked at me today made me feel just as angry and upset as ever. But that's my problem, not hers. If she wants to spit (figuratively) on the hands that helped her because they're white, that's not my problem. And I refuse to let her attitude change the way I treat blacks in general. We're all just people.
I would guess, without having heard it, that the woman in the newscast was trying to make the point that the teacher, in pointing out that her Black daughter was smart, was -- almost certainly unintentionally -- singling her out as an exception. One doesn't have to make such a big deal about white students being smart because the society has traditionally assumed white students are smart, and Black students less so.
Actually it was a story about how schools are holding up since Brown vs the Board of Education. The mother was angry that there weren't more black teachers-if there are equal opportunities for blacks, why don't they become teachers? That's a good question. Maybe blacks just don't want to go into debt for the rest of their lives to take a job that doesn't pay well and everyone criticizes you no matter what you do, and you have to hear on the news every day what a lousy job you're doing. Can you tell I'm a teacher? As far as I'm concerned, I deserve everything I get for being so stupid. But the poor teacher being attacked here hadn't done anything wrong-she said, in tears, that she praised all her students and no parent had ever complained before.
BTW, you may think I'm exaggerating here, but there is a huge controversy happening in my city right now because a government leader who is Aboriginal referred privately to some women running a shelter for abused women as "white do-gooders". My partner says, that's the guy's experience. I say, but those women are working hard and help lots of Aboriginal women.
Sounds like that's a double standard. As long as we judge by the color of the skin and not the content of the character, we're not going to have a good society to live in. When I think of how I grew up...our church filled up with Cuban refugees after Castro and we took in a Filipino family too from a refugee camp. My mother's best friend was a Chinese immigrant. We had it all on the block-Haitians, Jamaicans, Poles, there was a blind lady across the street, and I played softball with the black kids who lived next door to her. And once a year we had a big block party, and nobody had a problem with anybody because we all knew each other and we didn't look for reasons to divide into groups or get offended at each other.
Suzanne Metaxas
129. SuzyM
Stereo typing of all kinds is wrong. I have an Asian girlfriend who suck at math and science and she used to get crazy when someone woud say to her, "how can you be bad in math and science, your Asian!" She would say "Really you think there are IQ points in Asian sperm & eggs?" Another girlfriend who is 5'11" would be told by gym teachers she had to be on the basketball team for the school even though she hated sports. People are what they are and that is how they should be judged. I'm now climbing down off my soap box and getting back to Lost Girl :)

I'm dying to hear what Kris said to George that came out totally wrong :)
Carmen Pinzon
130. bungluna
Late to the discussion, as usual, but can't help but add my bit.

I'm a hispanic/black/ Heinz 57 woman. I've lived in the Heartland of the US (I was the darkest thing in 5 conties!), in Fla & TX where I was either thought of as Cuban or Mexican (I'm from Panama), Spain where I was confussed with Gypsies and now in Asia. Tell me about discrimination and I'll find an anecdote from my past to fit, both for race and for gender. That said, I still think some people are just too prickly and quick to take umbrage. Don't get me started on polititians making hay of any little perceived slight!

I had a black student at University come out an ask be WHAT I was, as if that's not offensive!

I think some people hold on to their perceived hurts to justify their own shortcomings. Blaming the Man for everything is more comfortable than taking a hard look at yourself. Bill Cosby said it better.

My sister had a student and mom throw a fit in her class' open house (TX) because the school supplies that the gov. has to give underpriviledged kids were not in on time. Guess what race she was? She was not white.

Asking people to edit themselves constantly to spare your hurt feelings is a form of discrimination too, imo. Some comments are intentionally offencive and the commenter should be called out on it. That said, some things are ambiguous enough that we have to learn to take them with a grain of salt.

Specifically, KHR made a comment about a character in a sci-fi show that's supposed to have a bi protagonist and supposed not to slut shame anybody. Why assume that his remarks should be edited not to offend anybody? I mean, if you are a fan of the show I would think that you are ok with the premise to begin with, right?
Pandra Selivanov
131. Zanza
Asking people to edit themselves constantly to spare your hurt feelings is a form of discrimination too, imo. Some comments are intentionally offencive and the commenter should be called out on it. That said, some things are ambiguous enough that we have to learn to take them with a grain of salt.
Yes! Bungluna, you said it perfectly.
Katherine Bloom
132. lsbloom
I feel like one fairly innocuous joke got blown out of proportion. There is real hate and discrimination in the world. I don’t take offense at blond jokes—I take offense at women making .66 on the dollar vs men—or feel like KHR was in anyway perpetuating some stereotype that bisexual or homosexual women are just biding their time until a man arrives. If anything, it might have been an attack on men being too lazy for foreplay and a well-trod porn trope. But either way, it was silly joke that needn’t have some underlying social context unless you write it in. Language is a construct dependent on context and the context here doesn’t lead one to a place of hate or discrimination, unless you have some goal to look for discrimination from the non-doccubus elements of Lost Girl and the fandom.

Unfortunately that has been my experience in this fandom and it is disingenuous and offensive. I’m tired of being called homophobic for not liking Lauren. I’m tired of being told that Dyson is a chauvinistic jerk. I’m tired of the same comments from the same group who are constantly pushing a social agenda on a show that doesn’t need it. They strip everything progressive away from Lost Girl. What used to be no big deal, is now a HUGE deal. It is practically the only thing talked about in interviews. And any mention of Bo being bisexual and with (or even sexually “under”) men is reacted to with dreaded calls of betrayal and heteronorming. She’s always been bi. She should have sex with men. This should not detract from her relationships with women. It’s not one or the other for Bo. Somebody doesn’t win and somebody doesn’t lose. Feeling the need to act like a class in need of protection and a mercy-rule “win” ruins the strides Lost Girl made for f/f relationships early on. Because before the fans got their claws into it, it was a no big deal thing, a fact of life, accepted without judgment because what is there to judge? Nothing. Bo is bi. Good for her.
TheGardner
133. TheGardner
Um wow, I don't evem know where to begin with this.

@Keirsten - I appriciate you saying that. I agree, as I stated before, the comment was obviously a joke and KHR is probably a very nice guy(I dont know him, nor have ever met him so I can't say one way or another) who didn't mean any harm, it simply rubbed me the wrong way. At this point I am more frustrated with the fact that I felt compelled to defend myself, especially considering that is the opposite of the enviroment you were trying to create here.

@Char - Have I ever been to the deep south? Hmm... I live in Florida, 20 minutes from the Georgia line, is that deep enough? I wasn't trying to start some big discussion on discrimination merely expanding on why I found said comment tacky and that it had nothing to do with shipping or fandoms.

@Whiskeywhite - Not surprisingly, you and I are more or less on the same page.
TheGardner
134. whiskeywhite
What a fabulous discussion! I should have responded earlier, @Zanza, to your examples of Blacks and gays attacking others out of anger. Black Americans were understandably angry about the Zimmerman case -- it's Black parents' worse fear, that their innocent child, especially their son, will be killed. But some of the folks in your neighbourhood feel they have no way to reach or change the people with the real power, so they take out their anger on the people they can reach, their white neighbours. Understandable? Yes. Right thing to do? No. It compounds the problem.

Ditto for gay men who have every right to be angry at the leadership of the Scouts. But is attacking individual scouts, including children, the right way to address the problem? Absolutely not. I'll bet that there are even some folks among the strident Doccubi who think they are advancing the (legitimate) lesbian struggle for recognition and validation but attacking the actors or other fans personally. Not!

But I can't agree that the Civil Rights battle has been won. The "whites only" signs may be gone but the income and wealth gap between whites and Blacks is actually growing rather than shrinking as it should be if equality is being achieved. Tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of the historic March on Washington which was a march for "jobs and freedom". Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream of economic equality -- for everyone -- has definitely not been achieved.

Ditto for all who think that full equality for women has been won. I agree heartily with @lsbloom: "I take offense at women making .66 on the dollar vs men." Absolutely right -- that's more important than jokes. And if Lost Girl were even coming close to portraying those problems, I'd be going on about that. :-) I mentioned once before that I was shocked to realize that there were no women detectives working alongside Dyson and Hale (although we do see some women uniformed cops). Until Tamsin came along. Maybe it was Hale's Affirmative Action plan for women. :-)
TheGardner
135. whiskeywhite
I can see that I am coming to the point where this is another joke which I will have to promise never to discuss again. :-) But see, it leads to such interesting and important discussion, way beyond jokes. I should call Kris and thank him -- if I had his number. :-)

However, I've been thinking about it and have decided that I should tell you what I said that so offended those women. Because it's actually a really good example of how you have to think before speaking, and think about who you're talking to. We were talking about a play which they had come to see and they were worried that they might not get tickets. They joked that if I had tickets they might have to "roll" me for them. I knew they were totally kidding.

So I responded that maybe they should check out what the scalpers had to offer. I thought I was joking because there was no way that there would be anyone scalping tickets to this tiny play. I was of course referring to people who resell over priced tickets (which is the original meaning of the word). If I had said this to absolutely anyone other than an Aboriginal person, there would have been no reaction whatsoever and no reason for one. But one of the most painful and derogatory stereotypes associated with Aboriginal people/American Indians is that they cruelly scalped innocent white people (even though the practice was actually introduced by whites and the first scalps paid for with bounties were the scalps of Indians).

So that's why they reacted so strongly. And rightly so. I had hurt them by being thoughtless. It was as if I suddenly out of the blue slapped them in their faces. And I knew what I had done the moment the words came out of my mouth. I had literally never in my life associated ticket resellers ("scalpers") with Aboriginal people. But if I had stopped for just a few seconds and thought about what I was going to say, and who I was saying it to, and what their perspective and experience was likely to be, I would have realized what pain I would be inflicting, especially coming from me as a white person, and I wouldn't have said it.

That's not self-censoring or being "PC", it's being considerate of others (which is what PC means to me actually rather than a bad word). It's trying to learn as much as we can about other people's challenges and histories and putting ourselves in their shoes. Especially if we're white, or men which means we have a lot of privilege that we never earned, just got by being born, and benefit from every day. There's a terrific article about all this.

Glad everyone chimed in and shared personal experiences -- great examples of stereotypes and the difficulties of living day to day, whether as whites or as people of colour, in our race-divided society. And thanks for lighting the flame of debate @TheGardner, even if unintentionally. :-)
Pandra Selivanov
136. Zanza
I should have responded earlier, @Zanza, to your examples of Blacks and gays attacking others out of anger.
I'm glad you responded, Whiskey, since it is rare to have this kind of discussion.
Black Americans were understandably angry about the Zimmerman case -- it's Black parents' worse fear, that their innocent child, especially their son, will be killed.
Problem is, Trayvon Martin was not an innocent child. I'm not saying Zimmerman was right. Since this case, it's my worst fear that my white son who goes around the neighborhood at four in the morning to get to work, will run into a neighborhood watch zealot who thinks he's up to no good and shoot him. But it was proven that Martin used racial language against Zimmerman, that he was a troubled kid who had time to get home and went after Zimmerman, and that Zimmerman was not a racist. So this is a case of misplaced anger, against a "white" Hispanic, a term invented solely for this case to whip up anger. We don't advance the cause of racial harmony by misrepresenting facts. This was a horrible tragedy, but the racism was on the black guy's side. And I think the more blacks who recognize black racism is a problem, the more true equality and true harmony will be possible. There are some really good efforts being made in this direction by Bill Cosby, Thomas Sowell, and Larry Elder, among others.
I can't agree that the Civil Rights battle has been won. The "whites only" signs may be gone but the income and wealth gap between whites and Blacks is actually growing rather than shrinking as it should be if equality is being achieved.
Again, this is not the fault of white racism. If only it were that simple, as in the time of Martin Luther King. Almost three-fourths of black children are born out of wedlock. This drives poverty, which leads to criminal behavior. Black kids also don't do as well in school because they don't want to, because they think it's "acting white." I teach in the inner city, and I know from personal experience. How many times have black kids said to me, "You can't expect me to learn this-I'm black." And the black students who are doing well, staying in school, earning good grades, looking to the future and even taking part-time jobs, are doing so in the face of enormous peer pressure from other black kids who call them "Uncle Tom" and accuse them of selling out their race. It takes an extraordinary kid to face that kind of pressure and not let it influence them. Can any of this be blamed on whites or lack of opportunity or unjust laws? I think not.

As to the women who were offended by your "scalped" remark, they were totally out of line. I am sitting here so angry about their reaction I could bite a nail. Scalping is a verb in the dictionary as selling tickets under the table. First you can't say a chink in armor, which goes back to Biblical times, now this. How dare these women take personal offense at a completely harmless term? That's on them, not on you. Please, please don't make the mistake of thinking you did something wrong, especially since they could have had the decency to say they didn't like that term instead of taking offense.

I'm a Cajun and where I come from, every group larger than one is "you people." When I first came to California, I used this term and I still do-but not to blacks. The blacks I said it to asked me politely not to use that term. They explained it was hurtful, and so I don't say it to blacks. But I'll be damned if I'm going to walk on eggshells and censor every word I say and feel guilty if someone gets their feelings bruised by a harmless comment.
TheGardner
137. Char
@TheGardner--I'm glad that you live in the South. I was stationed at Moody AFB and there were hateful comments thrown at me because of my race and gender. Their intent was malicious and to invite anger. Didn't happen. I was more stunned than anything. Now KHR comment was not spiteful or malicious. It was a joke. I took it as a joke. It is too difficult to censor your speech for everyone. And your comment to whiskeywhite in regards to "Not surprisingly, you and I are more or less on the same page". I call a spade a spade. If I found his comment to be tacky I would have said so. But you didn't find his comment tacky. You found KHRcimment belittling same sex relationship. Tacky and belittling are different. If KHR said this comment to Bo and a man for instance Ryan, then it would have been funny. Double standard.

@Whiskeywhite---Yiu should have called your friends out. If you can't take a joke, don't make jokes. Clear and simple. People are extremely sensitive. I mean KHR was in a public forum explaining to the audience about Bo and Dyson. If you don't like what you are hearing then you should leave. This was not the Presidents State of Union. It is a tv show about fake characters. And I don't take jokes to be malicious if it is a joke. If my friends md I are joking, then we can kick back and talk like friends.

@Zanza---Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman should not have been about race. A man took the life of a child. A 17 year old boy went against a 30 year old man. Horrifying.

I'm still trying to find some great Bo and Lauren moments. Any takers!!?
Christopher Morgan
138. cmorgan
Hey Guys,

While we appreciate how resepectful everyone is being and how great it is to share opinions. We just wanted to pop in to remind everyone to keep the focus on the the show and it's characters.
Pandra Selivanov
139. Zanza
@CmMorgan, it's Kiersten's blog. If she has a problem with our discussion, she can say so. It's not your place to direct the discussion.

@Char, you said
@Zanza---Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman should not have been about race. A man took the life of a child. A 17 year old boy went against a 30 year old man. Horrifying.
and I couldn't agree more, except that a seventeen year old is not a child. On that point, we will have to agree to disagree. A seventeen year old is a child in the sense that they are not of legal age, but a seventeen year old can be tried as an adult, drive a car, take a job, sign up for the military and get married (with parental permission) and pretty much do everything a legal adult can do except drink and vote. Again, I think calling Martin a child is a little shy of the truth and helps to fuel anger which is misplaced. The anger should be that a neighborhood watch volunteer was carrying a gun, which I think emboldened Zimmerman to get out of his car in the first place. And the anger should be against Martin as well, for being racist and attacking someone when he didn't have to. I think the way both young men acted makes a case for thinking more seriously about carrying guns and picking fights with people. I see both these guys as being in the wrong. Martin is dead and Zimmerman's life is ruined and people are fighting over it across the country still, and none of it needed to happen.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
140. Kiersten
@Zanza and everybody else FYI: @CmMorgan is the community director for H&H web site. In other words, he outranks me.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
141. Kiersten
OK, we've gotten way off topic here and as the Martin/Zimmerman case inflames a lot of people's passions, and yet has nothing directly to do with Lost Girl (though we did arrive there through our discussion of race etc), let's close that topic before it goes any further and redirect back to discussing the show.

Thanks.
Suzanne Metaxas
142. SuzyM
I am hoping that Dyson and Bo will be getting back together this season. I have been playing around on how this might happen. Perhaps Dyson saves Lauren and brings her back to the Fae to stand trial for her part in the Taft debacle and defends her successfully so that the Fae sentence her to being pledged to the Ash for life as her punishment and don't execute her. Kenzi and Dyson along with Tamsin then go and try and free Bo from her father, but to their surprise she doesn't want to be rescued. Bo's Father captures the trio and threatens to execute them. Bo pleads for their lives and her father spares their lives but makes them his slaves. Bo while trying to come to terms with what is going on in her life finally admits to herself she is deeply in love with Dyson while trying to free him, Kenzi and Tamsin form her father.
Pandra Selivanov
143. Zanza
Fair enough, Kiersten. Is it okay if I post a link to my own blog for anyone who wants to continue this discussion?

As for Lost Girl, I wouldn't like to see Dyson and Bo get back together yet. I'd rather see Bo grow up some and be ready to commit before she tries monogamy. And is it too much to ask that she talk to Trick about this issue? He's the one who knows about being married to a succubus, or was Isabeau a chi-eater? Anyway, Trick is the one who has the informed opinion on this point and yet Bo has never once risen the question with him. It really doesn't make any sense.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
144. Kiersten
Sure Zanza, go ahead and post the link.

Guys, if you want to continue race/Manning/Zimmerman etc discussion, Zanza is going to post a link to her site for continued conversation there. FTR: This is not an endorsement by H&H (or me).
Suzanne Metaxas
145. SuzyM
I agree @Zanza the grandfather/granddaughter talk is way over due. Though Trick does annoy me a little. He seems to have decided to use Dyson as however he sees fit without considering Dyson's feelings. Trick is the one who made him watch Bo in the beginning, didn't want him romantically involved with Bo and then after he sacrificed his love for her wants him to still be with her. Then he is totally OK with Dyson sacrificing himself for Bo in the Dawning! Really? Your not OK to date my granddaughter but by all means sacrifice you life for her when needed. Think it is time for Trick to step up and be on his friends side. I guess the real question is are they truly friends or does Trick just see Dyson as on of his liege men?
Pandra Selivanov
146. Zanza
So here's a link to my blog for anybody. http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/ Like Kiersten says, she's not endorsing it and neither is Heroes and Heartbreakers. Thanks for permission to post the link, Kiersten!

@SuzyM, Trick annoys me a LOT. As you say, he didn't want Dyson and Bo involved to begin with, but was he honest with Bo? Nope, because you can't have people actually talking about what's going on. That would be wrong. Your question about are Trick and Dyson actually friends is spot on. They don't really seem like friends to me-Dyson is too subservient. Ever see MASH? Hawkeye and Radar come to mind-a subordinate who was friendly with an officer, but they weren't really friends until Radar was able to find a more equal footing with Hawkeye. Same thing with Dyson and Trick. Dyson has way too much respect for the legendary Blood King-he doesn't really seem to see Trick as he is. And Trick plays on that to keep Dyson doing what he wants. Really as the years have gone on I've come to dislike Trick. I still am mad about his comment that Kenzi isn't one of them.
Suzanne Metaxas
147. SuzyM
I don't dislike Trick, I just think he has to get off the fence and decide which side he's coming down on :) Yet I also agree with you that he should come clean with Bo and let her know it was on his orders that Dyson kept his distance in the beginning and that the night Aife raped Dyson that Dyson told Trick he was telling Bo everything no matter what Trick wanted.
Pandra Selivanov
148. Zanza
Don't hold your breath, Suzy. Aoife's sexual assault with Dyson wasn't quite played for laughs, but it was pretty disturbing that it was shrugged off. Likewise Trick's ruthless use of Dyson to further his own ends-I doubt that will ever come out in the wash.
TheGardner
149. TheGardner
@Char - I am tired of beating this dead horse so reread my original comments 80(where I use the word tacky), 85, & 89(ignore the venom as I was annoyed that I couldn't have an opinion without it turning into a ship war) and maybe you will understand better my intention.

Now as for great Bo and Lauren moments I am not sure if you are meaning relationship-y, foundation wise, or significant to the series so I will select three per season that stand out.

Season 1:

1x02 Bo taking her medicine - The injections help the hungry, hungry succubus learn control and it shows DL breaking the rules/risking her ass(and Nadia's allthough she doesn't exist yet because the writers haven't made her up) to help Bo.

1x06 Succubus Midterm - Some of the first real interaction between Bo and Lauren, establishes again that Bo sees herself as a monster(recurring theme) and we learn a bit about Bo's succubus powers, i.e. her ability to read sexual desires.

1x08 Humpage/fallout - Bo has her first non-fatal sexcapades with a human, Bo and Lauren, um, connect, then all is destroyed once DL's betrayal is exposed.

Season 2:

2x07 Lauren's confession - We find out the reason behind DL's slavery and Bo actually showcases some maturity and understanding.

2x20 Can I sleep with you? - Lauren is broken and grieving seeks out Bo for some sexual distraction and in the end winds up just needing to be held. The contrasting images of them being intercut with Dyson/Ciara's "end of the world sex" was jarring.

2x22 Epic Kiss - Bo takes a stand, never great at expressing her emotions, there are no words needed as she conveys everything in that kiss, laying her heart completely open not caring who else was there to see it.

Season 3:

3x04 Kitchen Scene - Bo and Lauren have a heart to heart about some of the hard truths in their relationship. Bo comes clean about her "Dyson heal bang" and the "one rule" is established.

3x05 Out of Control Succubus - Lauren uses a call back to their first meeting to bring Bo back off the succubus cliff. This scene is interesting as it is another example of Lauren being able to use touch to calm Bo.

3x10 "Break" Scene - After Lauren is attacked she has reached her limit and needs to take a step back. Bo reluctantly agrees begging, "This is just a break?"
Pandra Selivanov
150. Zanza
Funny how differently people view things. The Great Kitchen Scene always stands out in my mind as one of the ugliest moments in Bo and Lauren's relationship, as the implications of the "no Dyson" rule sink in. I realized Lauren would rather see Bo in the hospital or dead than healed with Dyson's help. Lauren was so selfish and grasping and Bo was so pathetically eager to please her that it was just sad.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
151. Kiersten
I fell similarly about DL's callback to their first meeting in Fae'd Wide Shut. That she references a moment where she sexually assaulted her naked patient (who was a still total stranger) as their first "love" moment shows how toxic their relationship and (specifically DL's perspective on it) is from their very first interaction. Were she a man, the hue and cry of outrage over that moment would have (rightfully) been epic.
Katherine Bloom
152. lsbloom
I second both the kitchen scene and the first love grope. The succubus midterm was so uncomfortable for me. Bo is dressing up like it's a date except it's with her doctor who is treating her and this isn't a date it's a session. I couldn't stop cringing at the inappropriateness of the situation.

What does surprise me about the list of great Bo/Lauren moments is how often they aren't on the same page. Lauren is manipulating Bo, Lauren is geeking out and Bo is confused, Lauren is grieving and Bo wants sex, Lauren is fed up and Bo is happy. I guess it would make for drama if these moments were counterbalanced with them being completely intune. Where are those times?
TheGardner
153. stacymd2
Wow, over 150 comments! I only missed a few days, but I feel out of the loop. I’m so impressed with you gals and guys. I’ve read most of the above comments and you all have some very interesting things to say.

Where to begin…

I think context, history as well as intentions should be taken into account when discussing offense. It is not practical to expect everyone to know someone else’s personal hang ups, history, hot buttons, etc. KHR’s minor joke was just that.

In some areas of society I think there is oversensitivity and in other areas there is not enough. When little things are blown out of proportion it devalues real issues.

I don’t want to divert the awesome Lost Girl conversation to something else, but the civil rights movement in the United States (be it for racial, ethnic & religious minorities, women’s or LGBTQ rights) is not over nor has it been “won.” Not socially, morally or in terms of the laws in this country. The word “Hispanic” means a person with origins in Spain and/or Latin America; relating to Spain or to Spanish-speaking countries. There are indigenous/native, black, white and Asian Hispanics. "White Hispanic" is not a new term invented to whip up anger. As per the US Census Bureau: “People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race.” My sister did her Peace Corps stint in South America (I forget the country). She met Asian Hispanics. When someone says they are Latino/Hispanic it just means they were born, or their parents were born, in Spain or Latin America. Hispanic is not a race. I apologize for taking this comment away from Lost Girl, but I cannot just let that stand.

Now, back to our favorite succubus show…Lost Girl!

Did anyone else see an old Huffington Post article with AS? I just found it. (Dated: 7/23/13) It had pictures of her, Seth and their baby. He is so cute! Anna & Seth make an adorable couple.

On a shallow note…I hope LG’s make up department eases off the eye shadow on AS and KS. I hated the raccoon eyes they were sporting in Season 3. Heavy eye make-up makes women look older.

@ SuzyM & Zanza: we need more backstory on Trick & Dyson. I too wondered about their dynamic in Season One, but LG made Trick & D less king/servant in S3. They remind me of True Blood’s Eric and Pam or Bill and Jessica. I think I saw a clip somewhere with KHR saying that they will be doing a backstory on how D met Trick. I’m taking this with a grain of salt because I remember reading last year that LG was going to do backstories in S3 and that didn’t happen.

I also agree that Trick and Bo should have a conversation about relationships. It would have been cool to see Trick and Bo talk after the B/L break up. If B/D ever gets back together, Dyson should ask Trick for advice on how he kept his marriage to a succubus (?) together.

The conversation that I really, really want to see is the one between Trick and Aife. OMG, it needs to happen. If it does in S4, EA and JF better not screw it up.

@TheGardner: My favorite ZP scene was the break up scene during the Tickle bang episode. ZP & AS were so emotionally raw. I almost felt sad for Lauren—almost. I don’t have a favorite Lauren scene, but I did like the S2 scene at the Dal for Ciara’s funeral where she commiserated with Dyson. I also liked the scene in S3 where D & L talked at the Dal after the break up.

I have to admit that…I cheat on H&H. I visit other Lost Girl discussion sites, but (I swear!) I don’t post on them. They mean nothing to me! I read everything from the SyFy site to AfterEllen, to Doccubus.com. It is simultaneously an infuriating and hilarious experience. I read them because I like to know what that ship is saying, thinking, reacting to.

A tiny bit of the noise is fair, but most of it is B.S. crazy. I have read on the ship site that:
Dyson raped Bo (among other silly things);
Trick hates humans;
Ridiculous comments about RS and Tamsin;
Lauren is not respected enough by anyone and all of the characters/writers/world is against Lauren and ZP;
Lauren is a downtrodden slave who saves everyone (in all three seasons) all the time and the Fae and other characters do not appreciate it;
B/L is EPIC GOLD and people who can’t see it are homophobes who want Bo in a hetero normative lifestyle with a controlling jerk (aka Dyson);
Nice and not so nice things about EA

The great mind bending lengths that they go through to justify Lauren’s questionable actions is hilarious. I can’t stop reading them. It is like when I use to read customer reviews for Kevin Federline’s attempt at music with his 2006 CD. Some of the reviews are so funny; I just cannot stop reading them. For E.g.:

The unholy union between K-Fed and music television will ensure that this demon seed is poured forth upon the masses, burning them with inescapable torment.”

My advice... JUST SAY NO! Don't even try it once... You (or someone you love) will get hurt if you listen to this!”

I bought this album as a gag gift for a few close friends who enjoy rap. I'm sorry I did. I'm now involved in a class action lawsuit from those same friends and their families. The charge is perpetuating psychological abuse, psychosomatic trauma, spontaneous ear bleeding, nausea and virgin sextuplet births... with intent to distribute.”

Friends you can also check out reviews for BIC Pens for her as well as Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan’s CDs for a laugh. Sorry for the extra-long post. I leave you with this:

I can't find a switch to turn it on, and it didn't come with batteries. This is not the "for her" product I was expecting. At all.”
Kiersten Hallie Krum
154. Kiersten
I - I just - I can't really look at you right now, @staceymd2. I feel like something broke between us, that the trust just is not there anymore now that I know of your propensity to...stray. All this while I thought I was your only one. Turns out, I'm just one of many you've led down the path of lies and deception. You're like a stanger to me now...how ever will I go on?

;)
Linda Losik
155. LindaL
Just out of complete curiosity: how does one rape a succubus and live to tell about it? Even a wolf; I still think that Aofie was trying (and succeeding) to murder Dyson while she was raping him.

Besides, I am quite sure that you never, ever posted there! :-)
TheGardner
156. TheGardner
To be fair I said those were moments that "stood out" not that they were great.

OK if we are looking at proper professional conduct Lost Girl is not where you want to begin. The premise of the show/Bo is that "she's impossible to resist" and her initial scene with DL was supposed to be an expansion on that. The uber nerdy doctor can't control herself when face to face with the succubus. Lauren even acknowledges her continued embarrassment of that moment with her "patients are potentail trysts" quip in 3x05. For her part, Bo uses the doctors obvious attraction to her advantage when she uses her succu touch to try and escape. I think the most significant thing about that scene is after Bo's escape was foiled by Dyson, she turns to Lauren and appologizes. Lauren is still shaking off the love juice and is clearly flustered, but with fae attitudes toward humans being what they are; I had to wonder the last time someone treated her as a person instead of a thing. I'm probably giving the writers way to much credit, but I felt that small act of kindness is one of the reasons why Lauren agreed to help her later.

Was her behavior unprofessional bordering on assault; yes definitely, but on Lost Girl(Bo & the FFW, Dyson's retconned rape) not so much.
TheGardner
157. TheGardner
On to the kitchen scene..

Now this scene was interesting because it mirrored the scene in 1x12 between Bo and Dyson. I say this because both couples, neither who were partcularly good at communication, actually talked to each about their respective relationship issues, namely Bo's succubus nature and how it conflicts with her lovers. This scene is also the first time Bo says "I love you" to the person and not a third party.

Personally this "Bo starving herself for the sake of monogamy" felt like nothing more than an excuse for a Bo/Dyson hook-up. Bo spent 10 years killing her human lovers and we are supposed to buy that she would risk Lauren's life like that. Since she has been starving herself, when she gets injured there is no one around to help her heal besides Dyson, um OK, right because Tamsin wasn't in the next room, but whatever.

@Zanza - I have to disagree I think Lauren was being pretty reasonable in taking Dyson off the menu. Keep in mind they were discussing Bo's normal/regular feeding, not life or death situations. Lauren forgave Bo's heal-bang with Dyson for that very reason, so it is not a stretch to believe that she would lack compassion when faced with a similar scenario.
TheGardner
158. TheGardner
On a side note, one of the main reasons why I believe Tamsin and Bo will end up related in Seasom 4 is because of the lack of a succibus hook-up(healing or otherwise) and they only shared a few contrived kisses. Bumping uglies with Tamsin doesn't break the "one rule" so why not go there?
Pandra Selivanov
159. Zanza
@Zanza - I have to disagree I think Lauren was being pretty reasonable in taking Dyson off the menu. Keep in mind they were discussing Bo's normal/regular feeding, not life or death situations. Lauren forgave Bo's heal-bang with Dyson for that very reason, so it is not a stretch to believe that she would lack compassion when faced with a similar scenario.
@Gardener, the problem with Lauren taking Dyson away from Bo is that Bo will take that promise seriously, even unto death. Lauren would probably forgive Bo if there was a similar life-and-death situation, but my problem with her attitude is that she doesn't realize Bo will crawl away and die before she breaks her promise. How can Lauren claim to love Bo and not realize this about her? By having Bo promise not t0 "heal-bang" Dyson, she is putting Bo's life at risk. And she doesn't care, or she doesn't know Bo well enough to realize how Bo would react in the future. And if she doesn't know Bo after all that time, she never will.
Linda Losik
160. LindaL
What if the topic under discussion in the kitchen wasn’t about love of Bo or hate of Dyson but Lauren having complete control? I think that Lauren does know Bo well enough to know that Bo would die before having healing sex with Dyson and that is the point. Lauren is in control of Bo just like she is in control of the Fae Labs and all the fae that work there. After all, in the world according to Lauren, only Lauren knows best.
Pandra Selivanov
161. Zanza
Exactly, Lindal. Either way, Lauren doesn't come out of that discussion looking like a loving partner. Either she has no idea what kind of person Bo is, or she knows Bo will die before breaking a promise and she doesn't care. Being in charge is literally more important to Lauren than Bo's very life. And either way, it's not love.
TheGardner
162. Char
I believe that the scene between Lauren and Bo in Season 3 with the Baccus was a great way to show how Lauren was important to Bo. Bo was devolving into an UnderFae. Lauren was able to talk to Bo and reach her.

But, Lauren is the Dr. And she is human. I am going to try to give her a break. But if Lost Girl tries to make her the hero, I am finished with Lauren.

I do look at othe sites and check out what they are discussing. @Stacymd2 but I never post. Well...I use to post at IMDB. But when I shouted Team Dyson, I was called so many names. I don't post there anymore. It is too childish. Calling me names because I like a fictional character. Just like this site, we have heated but respectful conversations.
TheGardner
163. whiskeywhite
Re: Trick and Dyson. I would argue that their relationship is not king/servant as much as liegelord/knight. Feudal kings (e.g., King Lear) were not as powerful as kings later became and knights were warriors who owed them allegiance but were also owed respect in return. It was a relationship of mutual obligation. That's how I see Trick and Dyson.

Yes, Dyson listens to Trick's advice/persuasion, and obeys direct orders when push comes to shove. But there is a two-way respect and caring. Trick goes to considerable lengths to protect Dyson in 1.11, "Faetal Justice", endangering himself by confronting The Morrigan and her goons with a shotgun, and sacrificing old friendships in the effort to marshall political support to save Dyson from execution (both of which Dyson tells him he shouldn't be doing, though he later thanks him).

When Dyson rebels against his liege lord/king by disobeying the "no emotional relationship with Bo" order (1.04 - 'friends with benefits'), and then challenges the king that he must tell Bo the truth or he himself will do so (1.12 "(Dis)membered"), Trick doesn't criticize or punish him as he would theoretically have the right to do (granted he does bang a few dishes around to express his displeasure in 1.05).

Trick warns Dyson about the danger of the Norn, but when Dyson says, "the risks are mine to take", he doesn't stop him, an expression of respect. Granted he also agrees with Dyson that Bo can't be allowed to fight Aife alone on behalf of all the Fae, so it's not in his interest to stop Dyson. In the same way, his decision not to try to stop Dyson from offering himself as Bo's "hand" was a gesture of respect. He recognizes that Dyson knows what he's doing and has the right to do so ("The offer has been made" he sharply tells Stella). However, to be fair, Bo's protection is at stake so again he and Dyson have the same goal.

After Dyson loses his love (I think, I'm not sure of the episode) he expresses caring for Dyson when he says, "I'm sorry that keeping my counsel has come between you and Bo." And when he confronts the bitter Dyson in 2.17 ("The Girl Who Fae'd With Fire"): "Is it your brilliant plan to avoid Bo for the rest of your lives?", he's concerned as much with Dyson's unhappiness as he is with Bo's pain.

I do agree heartily that Trick keeps far too many secrets and needs to be much more open with Bo. But in a way he still kind of fears her, especially as long as he doesn't know who Bo's father is.
Katherine Bloom
164. lsbloom
Trick is the Trickopedia: a repository of myth and plot twists. Sometimes more so than he is an actual character. He pops up to spout mythology, history, and solve problems. He keeps the secrets of Bo's backstory. If he came right out with stuff, there wouldn't be a plot, the cases would all be solved, and Bo would knowledgeable and centered in the world.

I'm wondering if part of Lauren's need to control Bo stems from the intermingling of the doctor/patient relationship with the romantic one. Usually, her power over Bo and her belief in her correctness come from a medical place: the injections, keeping Bo from going after Kenzi, controlling her healing partners, lying to Bo but calling other people, etc.When she okays Bo's actions, it's all "well it's your biology." That power structure is why doctors don't date their patients: the psychological power, the artifical caregiver status, the control. It's why season 1's "is Lauren trustworthy?" storyline worked within the show. Did she genuinely care for Bo or was she attracted, but willing to manipulate her for her owns ends and the ends of her boss? I mean doctors are obligated to "help" anyone in need of medical attention, the care for their patients. Frankly, she needs to stop "treating" Bo--I mean come on, Bo self-heals and Lauren doesn't even know first aid.
TheGardner
165. whiskeywhite
@LindaL : I agree completely that Aife was "trying (and succeeding) to murder Dyson while she was raping him." As I've argued before, the sexual assault was the murder weapon/method. Quite a few men are attacked, and some killed, by the two succubi -- Aife and Bo. Is the most important meaning of those events that these men are being raped?

I'm going to don my flack jacket and helmet and walk way out on a limb to argue that this heavy emphasis on the horror of Dyson being raped is a reflection of our society's attitude that rape is practically the worse thing that can happen to a person. Yes, it is sexual assault, with the emphasis on assault. Rape is a crime of violence, not sexual attraction. It functions societally as a way of keeping women (and it is overwhelmingly women who are raped) in their (our) places, to keep us subserviant and oppressed. Around the world, rape of women is a weapon of war, meant to terrorize whole populations (e.g., in the civil war in Liberia where I lived decades ago, or today in Congo). It is also used to threaten or punish women, as a group, for asserting their independence from men's control.

Yet in North America, rape is generally seen as a personal tragedy without the analysis of its wider social role. I wonder if this (unconsciously) reflects the legacy of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religious view that a raped woman is ruined for life (because she has lost her sexual purity) and furthermore that rape is a property crime against either the woman's father or husband (whomever is the primary "owner" of the woman and her sexuality at the moment). This is the Old Testament view (I have lots of scholarly references to support this).

For men, the ultimate humilation of being raped is not that they have been assaulted, but rather that they have been treated like women, dominated and reduced to sexual property. In a way, LG is to be commended for not viewing Dyson in this way -- he is seen as a survivor of a murder attempt, not someone who has been humiliated. (I do allow that Kenzi semi-jokes about him being "banged").

Just to demonstrate how much trouble I can get into in one post (actually I'm not saying all this frivolously, or just to provoke, I'm seriously trying to think through these issues), I will also suggest that we're making too much of the doctor/patient relationship between Bo and Lauren when they first meet. Lauren may be a doctor, but in fairness she's not Bo's doctor. She's not there to help or cure Bo, she's there to collect evidence for the Ash about a prisoner and she does so with considerable kindness and consideration. Bo's succu-takeover of Lauren in the first episode is much closer to a sexual assault than anything Lauren did. True Lauren is entranced by Bo's beauty, and she rolls he eyes at herself after she blurts it out. Bo recognizes, "I tend to have that effect on people" and later apologizes for what she does to Lauren.
Carmen Pinzon
166. bungluna
@whiskeywhite - you've brought up a point that I think doesn't get enough discussion time, and that is Bo's criminal past and her constant struggle not to kill. In essence, she is a serial killer who has to watch her urges constantly not to over indulge. Why she keeps getting a free pass when all other characters are micro-analized is beyond me.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
167. Kiersten
This heavy emphasis on the horror of Dyson being raped is a reflection of our society's attitude that rape is practically the worse thing that can happen to a person.

Any discussion of male rape is definitely a reflection of society's attitude toward it.

However, the discussion and outrage over Dyson's rape specifically is not that is due to the fact that it was virutally ignored by both the show and the characters who love him and relegated to a "bang". Not because they were subscribing to society's attitude, but because it was inconveinent to the way they now wanted the story to go. Even Kenzi, who adores Dyson and risks her life for him repeatedly, says "your Mom really banged Dyson." No, she sexually assaulted and raped him against his will but supernaturally and physically. That's not subscribing to society's attitude, that's being gutless.

As for DoctorLauren, as soon as a person is in your care, they are your patient. Bo only juiced DL after DL touched her in a sexual manner. She took the initiative, she changed the tenor of their interaction, which Bo Bo capitalized on in an attempt to escape. But all of DL's pre-juiced moments are on her own head.

Bo was kidnapped, assaulted, imprisoned, and just had a wolf-shifter shove his teeth in her face. She was incredibly vulnerable to DL and her seemingly powerful position in this strange environment. Whether your patient is supernatural or, say, even a man with a woman doctor, they are vulnerable to you and thus it is the doctor's responsibility to act professional no matter the stimulus or temptation. They have laws against these things for these reasons. DL violated them, big time. Whether you call it sexual assualt or not (and it really is) to take advantage of the situation to touch your patient inappropriately and then two years later claim it was your first "love" moment is seriously creepy.
Pandra Selivanov
168. Zanza
Whiskey, rape is practically the worst thing that can happen to a person. There's before, and there's after. You're never the person you were before it happened. It happened to me when I was ten. I'm fifty-one now, and I got past it a long time ago, but I'll never get over it. And we need to look at all sexual assaults with horror. That includes sexual assault against men by women, which in one way is the worst of all, because men get practically no support or sympathy for being attacked. In that sense, what happened to Dyson was very realistic. He was brutally attacked and sexually assaulted, and it was shrugged off, even by those who love him.
TheGardner
169. Char
I know Dyson can only love Bo, but can't he have other relationships besides Bo. I mean can't a wolf have some wolf girlfriends? Until End game, when Dyson is with Bo.

Also, Hale and Kenzi can't be together. I would like it to happen but Hale is Fae and Kenzi is human. Fae rules!

It would be cool to see more Dark Fae species other than Vex and the Morrigan. I would like to see their inner workins. Light Fae is awesome but Dark Fae is mre entertaining.

And I would like for Bo's father to be Dionysus. Yes, he is greek but he was also called the Wanderer. I know Odin-Valkyrie-Valhalla makes sense. But it would be cool to see a greek species. I don't think Lost Girl has touched upon te greek mythology as much as Norse. I prefer Greek but Norse ain't bad. Especially Thor.
TheGardner
170. Char
@whiskeywhite and Zanza---All crimes are horrible. There are no worse crimes than another. Some crimes are given more punishment by the law, but morally and ethically crimes are all bad.

I believe that Lost Girl minimizes the crimes against men on the show but should it happen to a woman, then watch out. That's the double standard I am talkig about.
TheGardner
171. whiskeywhite
@Zanza, thanks for sharing that very personal and painful aspect of your history. The fact that you can talk about it with strangers, rather than keeping it secret, wrapped in shame, makes you a great role model for other women (and men).

Kiersten, could you explain further what you mean by "inconvenient to the way they now wanted the story to go." Inconvenient to whom? The writers? And why? What is inconvenient for the story? Do you mean that the recognition of Dyson being raped would of necessity have led the story in a direction somebody didn't want it to go? What would that direction have been? And who is being gutless? Kenzi? The writers?

Phew. I'm very happy not to venture any further into the minefield which is the Martin/Zimmerman story. But I notice that it was described as the race/Manning/Zimmerman case. A slip of the keyboard, I know, but does that mean that we could discuss Bradley/Chelsea Manning if it were relevant to LG? Lots of spying going on in LG. :-) :-) I'm kidding, really. I have no interest in going there.

P. S. I was wrong about the episode in which Trick confronts Dyson about his "brilliant plan." That was 2.02, "I Fought The Fae (and the Fae Won)" not 2.17. I have the worst time keeping the 'politicking to be the Ash' cocktail party (2.02) separate in my mind from the Inverell party at Santiago castle (2.17).
Pandra Selivanov
172. Zanza
I believe that Lost Girl minimizes the crimes against men on the show but should it happen to a woman, then watch out. That's the double standard I am talkig about.
Not just Lost Girl, Char. The show reflects real life in this respect. Which is very sad, because as long as some crimes are marginalized, we can't really expect society to improve. As you said, all crimes are bad-certainly all rape is equally bad. Anyway, another thing I was thinking about was this notion that in their first meeting, Lauren wasn't Bo's doctor. Kiersten had a good post on this, but I was thinking about something even more specific.

Of course Lauren was Bo's doctor from the moment she walked in. That shouldn't even be a question. Lauren is Bo's doctor, because Lauren as a doctor has taken an oath to do no harm and to care for all patients equally. Any ethical doctor considers that oath binding on every patient they come into contact with-a person does not have to enter into a formal doctor-patient relationship and hand over their insurance information to be considered a patient and safe from harm at the doctor's hands.

I would also like to add that doctors such as Mengele, who used his position of power to abuse patients being held as prisoners, have been regarded with special contempt, because of the underlying assumption fostered for centuries that a doctor's primary responsibility is to do no harm and help the suffering. True, it is an ideal that not all doctors have lived up to, but Lauren definitely falls into the camp of unethical doctors who used their position to abuse the helpless under their care. It's just so disturbing that she referenced that first meeting as being the beginning of their love. It speaks volumes about Lauren as a character with no morals and no principles.
Pandra Selivanov
173. Zanza
@Zanza, thanks for sharing that very personal and painful aspect of your history. The fact that you can talk about it with strangers, rather than keeping it secret, wrapped in shame, makes you a great role model for other women (and men).
That's okay, Whiskey. It took a long time to be able to open up about what happened. I don't dwell on it, but I don't hide it either. Sometimes it's good to show people you can get past something.

It is a troubling aspect of society in general that rape is not only so widespread, but that it is handled so differently based on who the victim is and who the perpetrator is. Women are treated with sympathy, so are children. Men are considered to be wimps for allowing it to happen, and if it's a woman who assaulted them, a lot of people refuse to believe it's even possible. Very disturbing. By the by, Law and Order: SVU had a truly great episode on this about a male stripper assaulted by some women at a party. Awesome episode, with a female cop very sympathetic and her male partner just about laughing it off.

Anyway, Dyson was raped by Aoife and they did show him having some trauma over it with the nightmares, but that got wrapped up pretty quick. If it had been a female character who was raped, it would have been quite acceptable to show the aftermath of the assault more realistically, but since it was a man raped by a woman, it was shrugged off. Even Kenzi, much as she loves Dyson, didn't seem to care what happened to him.

I do wonder if Dyson's violent reaction to fake Kenzi was due to lingering trauma, since he never really dealt with what happened. A woman jumped on him, he didn't want sex, and he broke her neck. I should think he could have realized it wasn't Kenzi with the fangs and all, but when Lauren came in, he was so distraught thinking he killed Kenzi that I don't think he really processed anything beyond her jumping him. So I do wonder, did Dyson have a bit of a flashback to getting raped by Aoife and just lose it because of that? Was he only reacting to what fake Kenzi was doing, or was there some unresolved PTSD going on?
TheGardner
174. Char
It would be so awesome if Lost Girl did a 24 hours how in 1 episode, or 60 minutes in a show. It would be so intense for that concept.
Carmen Pinzon
175. bungluna
@Zanza - great point about Dyson and his reaction to killing faux-Kenzie. However, I just can't give the writing team who brought us S3E1 that much credit. Maybe it was KHR bringing it fourth in his interpretation?
Pandra Selivanov
176. Zanza
Bungluna, I can't credit the writing team either, especially since the powers that be think it was a big joke that Dyson got raped. I think it was just Kris-he's a good actor and he probably puts a lot of thought into his character. Dyson would have been traumatized by what happened to Aoife, he never dealt with it, and fake Kenzi's actions could certainly have caused him to have a flashback. I could see Kris playing it that way.
TheGardner
177. whiskeywhite
@Zanza, your argument that Dyson's reaction to killing faux Kenzi was PTSD is very interesting. But I think it may be stretching it a bit (not to mention giving the writers too much credit as you and @bungluna have said. If they didn't recognize PTSD when Aife's attack occurred, why would they bring it up now. They aren't that subtle).

KHR certainly did a masterful job of portraying Dyson's panic, doubt and despair. But I think there's enough in the immediate situation to fully explain his reaction. He was never in real danger from faux Kenzi's jumping him, as he most certainly was from Aife. His reaction more logically follows from the remaining effects of being Valku-zapped by Tamsin, causing him to doubt what he has seen (the changes that revealed it wasn't really Kenzi), combined with her continuing to look and smell like the real Kenzi after death, as well as doubting the rightness of his own actions. Trick warned him the effects of the Valkyrie attack would linger, causing him to doubt his actions in the future.

Plus, he cares so deeply for Kenzi that he is frantic at the thought that he might have killed her by reacting automatically and instantly (I will even say -- eek -- without thinking) as a wolf when she attacked. Now, if he had unwittingly killed someone in the past that he cared for, that would make sense as a PTSD flashback.
Carmen Pinzon
178. bungluna
@Zanza - a comment you made about Doctors (Mengele) behaving ethically with prisoners has lingered on my mind. WonderLauren is herself a captive of sorts to the Fae, but she still seems to relish experimenting and researching on them, as per the first season. I hadn't thought of her subsequent actions in that light, but it does lend a creepy, sinister shade to all her actions.

I just wish the writers had gone in a super-villain directin for Lauren. I can't help but think it would have made the character much more enjoyable.
Pandra Selivanov
179. Zanza
@Zanza, your argument that Dyson's reaction to killing faux Kenzi was PTSD is very interesting. But I think it may be stretching it a bit (not to mention giving the writers too much credit as you and @bungluna have said. If they didn't recognize PTSD when Aife's attack occurred, why would they bring it up now. They aren't that subtle).
@Whiskey, I'm convinced by now the writers are idiots, but considering how much they leave unsaid on the show (how COULD they leave out Bo and Kenzi's freaking Norn conversation?) I think it's plausible. After all, if a woman had been raped and then years later violently attacked a man who tried to have sex with her, we would certainly see it as being a PTSD thing, even if it wasn't spelled out. Anyway, it was something that occured to me and I think it fits with the scene.
He was never in real danger from faux Kenzi's jumping him, as he most certainly was from Aife.
That's one of the worst things about a flashback. I haven't had one for a while, but people always think you're nuts, reacting as if you're in deadly peril when there's nothing really wrong.
His reaction more logically follows from the remaining effects of being Valku-zapped by Tamsin, causing him to doubt what he has seen (the changes that revealed it wasn't really Kenzi), combined with her continuing to look and smell like the real Kenzi after death, as well as doubting the rightness of his own actions.
This I agree with, with the caveat that if Dyson has any lingering trauma, I think Tamsin zapping him would make him more susceptible to that trauma resurfacing.

@Bungluna, you said,
@Zanza - a comment you made about Doctors (Mengele) behaving ethically with prisoners has lingered on my mind. WonderLauren is herself a captive of sorts to the Fae, but she still seems to relish experimenting and researching on them, as per the first season. I hadn't thought of her subsequent actions in that light, but it does lend a creepy, sinister shade to all her actions.
and I think you're right. There were doctors, not just Mengele but prisoner doctors, who were in the death camps and who experimented on prisoners. Some of them were no doubt forced to perform, but there were others who relished what they were doing. The Doctor's Trial at Nuremberg opened with these words.
The defendants in this case are charged with murders, tortures, and other atrocities committed in the name of medical science. The victims of these crimes are numbered in the hundreds of thousands. A handful only are still alive; a few of the survivors will appear in this courtroom. But most of these miserable victims were slaughtered outright or died in the course of the tortures to which they were subjected. For the most part they are nameless dead. To their murderers, these wretched people were not individuals at all. They came in wholesale lots and were treated worse than animals.
These words seem to fit Lauren, both in her treatment of Bo at their first meeting and her collaboration with the Fae and then Taft.
Carmen Pinzon
180. bungluna
@Zanza - I wouldn't go that far for Lauren. I regret the missed oportunity of having her be an undercover human freedom fighter, researching the fae and seeing them as subjects, until she met WonderBo! That, to me, would have been a much better story line for Lauren.

I seem to remember a line by Lauren in the first season where she alledged how much more interesting her work with the fae was in comparison to just plain human research. Anybody else remember this?
Nadine Robb
181. cmm
YES! Bungluna, I remember that. That's why her actions season 3 were so shocking to me. I just didn't understand it at all. It's like since dating Bo she forgot all about that.
Pandra Selivanov
182. Zanza
@Bungluna, I would say that Lauren has not gone so far yet, from what we know about her. The way they keep retconning her character, anything is possible. But I would definitely say I think she has it in her to go totally bad. There's just something very chilling about her thinking of the first time she met Bo as being the beginning of their love. There's such a darkness in her mind there.
TheGardner
183. TheGardner
Caught the boys earlier at DragonCon in Hotlanta. Was totes awesomesauce! Had Killer seats, only three rows back, center. There was a lot of dick jokes, sexual inuendo and boys being boys. No spoilers of course. What was really nice was KC Collins who normally seems really shy most of the time come out of his shell. Have at it kiddies!
TheGardner
184. whiskeywhite
@Zanza, your point about flashbacks is EXCELLENT (don't mean to shout, but no other emphasis does it sufficient justice):
That's one of the worst things about a flashback ... people always think you're nuts, reacting as if you're in deadly peril when there's nothing really wrong.
@Zanza, it did cross my mind when I was writing about Lauren's role as a doctor that one could question her working on a prisoner, but like @bungluna, I think that taking it to the level of Mengele and other prisoner doctor experimenters/torturers is really too far. Lauren, until the Dyson/Taft scenario, has never been shown or suggested to be doing research with any goal but curing or preventing illness and relieving suffering (e.g., Congo). Similarly, as a doctor, she cares for the ill quite compassionately (e.g., the Aswang and Kenzi in "Food for Thought", Dyson in "Ceremony" and lots of others).

Even with Taft, she's initially tricked into thinking she'll be finding a cure for heart disease for humans and other laudable research goals. In the Taft scenario she's either 1) forced to go along with Taft's crazy plan or 2) in league with Dyson to defeat Taft (an unlikely option, I think BTW-- but I am virtually always wrong). We need to be careful that our analyses are not driven by fundamental bias against specific characters. For e.g., in addition to the failings already mentioned about Trick, he has a satyr imprisoned in his basement (the one who failed his Dawning) and a troll locked up somewhere as well (whom he apparently owns -- "Did my troll get out?" he asks in 1.05 "Dead Lucky"). Are we railing against his keeping prisoners in dungeons (and in the case of the troll using them to do who know's what)?

Minor observation of the day -- I just noticed that the man who played the prison guard pursuaded by Bo to let her in to see Luanne in "Vexed" is the same actor (Robert Thomas) who played the cop in 3.02 "SubterrFaenean" who is twice tasked to watch Bo and twice succu-entranced into letting her go ("I love her so much, she's so pretty"). I guess he specializes in doing 'gullible'. :-)

@TheGardner, I'll be interested in seeing the panel from DragonCon since I, too, have noticed KC Collin's lack of ease on panels. To me he comes across as not very articulate, but you may very well be right that he's just shy. I think that was what was behind the (failed in my view) joke about 'rolodex' in Toronto. We've already discussed the difficulties of the actors having to be funny on demand in public.
Nadine Robb
185. cmm
I have a question for you all. The dawning is basically a fae's right of passage if they fail they de-evolve. If they pass they stay as they are and get stronger. So does that mean all underfae are fae that havne't passed their dawning? Or are some fae just evolutionary throwbacks? Meaning they never went through the dawning because it wasn't part of their evolution. Hope this doens't sound too confusing.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
186. Kiersten
Initially in S1E1, Dyson described the UnderFae to Bo as those Fae who were too obviously not human to live above ground amongst the humans. But then in S3, Trick explained that if Bo did not pass The Dawning, she would de-evolve into an UnderFae. Both can be true without canceling out the other. UnderFae can be those Fae too disfigured to pass for humans above ground, like the Morlocks in the Xmen universe, and can also be what an otherwise "normal" looking Fae becomes should he/she not pass their right of passage in The Dawning.
Nadine Robb
187. cmm
That's what I thought too Kiersten. But I think they should clarify this in season 4. They just kinda threw the dawning in there without much forewarning.
Carmen Pinzon
188. bungluna
@cmm- They threw EVERYTHING in there without much thought, imo.
TheGardner
189. TheGardner
@whiskeywhite - I may or may not have been under the influence when I wrote my previous comment, hence the poor grammer and spastic thoughts. I shall expand on my observations; PA is hilarious and was really at ease having fun and teasing the crowd. Aparrently he, KHR, & ZP are starting a theatre company, they have a tentative time frame is April for productions in Toronto. KHR talked about wolf/shifter spirituality and different ideas he has broached with Jay Firestone about resetting the "wolves mate for life" deal. He was diplomatic about it, but the question had been about what he would like to see for his character so perhaps he is as frustrated with how much that limits Dyson as we, or at least me, are.

In other panels that I have seen KC appears to be very soft spoken and often doesn't respond unless asked a direct question. He interjects comments here and there, but he seems to get swallowed by the other panel members. This time it was just him and his boys ripping on each other. He was playful and funny, even going so far to sneak on stage and pop his head out from under the table cloth after he was announced. On a shallow note, the man is gorgeous and it took some restraint to not throw myself at his feet and offer to do his laundry.

Female representation was lacking and I think having KS or ZP(still angry that she cancelled last minute after I had already spent 6 hours driving to Atlanta, Lauren better have a kick ass part in S4 for me to put up with that nightmare traffic, or grr!!!) putting the boys in their place would have taken the panel from great to amazing.
Pandra Selivanov
190. Zanza
@Zanza, it did cross my mind when I was writing about Lauren's role as a doctor that one could question her working on a prisoner, but like @bungluna, I think that taking it to the level of Mengele and other prisoner doctor experimenters/torturers is really too far.
Well, Whiskey, that's why I said I think Lauren has it in her, not that she has already taken it to that level. Her initial meeting with Bo, her referencing that moment as the beginning of their "love," and her not caring if Bo lives or dies as long as she doesn't heal-bang Dyson, show a real darkness in Doctor Lauren. You're the second person to say I'm taking Lauren too far. You guys do understand what I'm saying, right? When I talk about Lauren having the potential but not having gone that far, that seems pretty clear to me.
Carmen Pinzon
191. bungluna
@Zanza - message received. I personally thin it would make Lauren a richer character. Just think, she could be the villainess redeemed for love of a good succubus! Talk about ground-breaking gender role reversals!
TheGardner
192. Char
Y does a character need Love to develop? I dont understand why Dyson and Lauren have been minimzed to a relationship. Dyson had a 1000 year old life before Bo. Lauren is on the most wanted list, and the conversation is about Bo. Yes EA, the triangle is here to stay but Can Lost Girl minimize the boring triangle and delve into the mythogy of The Fae?

@TheGardner--Dyson is not limited by his love for Bo. The writers or bias towards a character does that. What is limiting is the writers or certain ship sites, who are deeply offended that someone else may have the affection of Bo other than the magnificent, all powerful, amazing Dr Lauren.

Can Bo become darker? I want Daddy, Mommy and Bo to take over the world. I want to see Daddy kill everyone, then bring them back, and then kill them again. In between this, Bo can feed on the sexual energy with multiple partners with her mother. Yes, I went there. How does a succubus feed with other succubus? Is it intensified?

Can Dyson find his pack? Can Dyson become the new Wolf King? I mean Ciara was a rich queen, can Dyson explore that? How about some police work, ur job? How about taking the ladies on a vacation and ending up in a different era? How about losing your scent for a day? Nothing involving the love of Bo. Except for an I love you with a deep kiss for the series finale.

@Zanza--Yes, can Lauren go dark? I would love to see the medical side get darker. Could she steal Bo's daddy DNA and grow resurrection Fae? How about using her brains and harvesting the Norn and her tree of life? To have a dark human villain would be awesome.@bulunga--I like the redeem. It would be enriching that Lauren goes dark the same time as Bo. 2 dark female characters. Both characters believe their darkness is the best way for Fae/Humans.

Kenzi. Can I meet ur parents? Why did you leave in more detail? And I would love to see Kenzi with Dark Bo. Does she follow or does she leave? Does she think that she bring Bo back from dark to light? Is this where Kenzi shows her human strength?
TheGardner
193. Char
Dear Lost Girl,

Love ur show! season 1 is brilliant. Season 2 was good. But Season 3

It reminded me of Season 2 and the awkward filler episodes.

Did we need 5 episodes of Lauren and Bo not talking. Why did the writers not have them talking? Lauren and Bo are adults and yet, no communication. Who does that? What 30 year old Fae and human don't talk in a relationship?

Dyson needs to stop helpin out Bo. Then we can have all females only helping Bo. Then Dyson might have some spare time to himself and start to love himself. There is character development. Oh and love the shirtless Dyson. Not Really.

Lauren the HERO. Enough said.

But the biggest complaint is prepping for the dawning and having the Dawning finish in 1 episode and all Bo says is i feel so alive. Bringing Taft in 2 episodes as the BiG Bad and then destroyed. And the Wanderer, it would have been nice to have a name for him.

So for Season 4, please don't squeeze in 22 episodes in 13.

Yours Truly.

456.000 out of 1.3 million viewers
Carmen Pinzon
194. bungluna
Dear @Char - you had me until,
Then we can have all females only helping Bo.

I didn't sign up for The L Word, Fae Edition. If that's what the show was going to be about, I would not have started watching it, since I have no interest in that theme.

Sincerely,

Me
TheGardner
195. TheGardner
@Char - I would say Dyson's character is very limited in his ability to "only love Bo". By placing these kind of restrictions, Dyson can't have any fully formed romantic relationships beyond Bo. So his choices are to sit on the sidelines and be miserable while she is with someone else or be with her. This truncates the character's development and confines him to being more or less stuck with a story line that revolves around Bo.
Pandra Selivanov
196. Zanza
@Gardnener, I have to say I think it’s dishonest, this insistence that Dyson has to be miserable if he can’t be with Bo. This is just something Doccubi say because they want Dyson to have a relationship with someone else. Dyson said wolves mate for life. Bo is the one his heart has chosen. That’s pretty intense, but there’s nothing in there to say he has to be miserable if he never gets Bo. Dyson had a full and interesting and happy life before he met Bo, and he’s perfectly capable of continuing to do that even if he never gets to be with her. Saying he has to be miserable because of the mating for life thing is nothing more than an attempt to cheapen Dyson to a one-note character who is totally defined by his love life. And it’s a blatant attempt to get him off the table, with a hypocritical insistence on how Dyson should be “happy”. In other words, go be happy with someone else, Dyson, and get out of Lauren’s way, as if her problems with Bo have ANYTHING to do with Dyson.
Linda Losik
197. LindaL
@TheGardner: I must disagree with you and agree with @Zanza. Dyson is not a one note character and the only time he was really miserable was when the freaking Norn stole his love from him. I realize that team Doccubus wants Dyson to go away or at least sidelined so far as to make him invisible to the viewers, but even though the writers are inconsistent, pandering and silly, they are not totally stupid! Or at the very least, the powers that be are not. Please accept the fact that Dyson is not only here to stay as is Lauren but will be a part of Bo’s life for a very long time. He did tell Bo that he would wait. To me this speaks volumes in the differences between Dyson and Lauren: Dyson wants Bo happy, even if she is not with him; Lauren would rather see Bo dead than have healing sex with Dyson.

I have long thought that Lauren would make a wonderful villain; ZP is good and would expand on her character in a manner that would be quite delicious! And there are tons of stories where the former lovers/friends/mates become enemies. But all of that said, I would like Lauren to redeem herself with the help of Team Badass because they all believe that she can.
Linda Losik
198. LindaL
sorry about the double post
Megan Frampton
199. MFrampton
Sort of, but not quite, off-topic--the first spotting of a trailer for Lost Girl Season Four.

What do you think (there are some scenes from previous seasons, right? I didn't just dream all that stuff, did I?)
Nadine Robb
200. cmm
@MFrampton No you are not dreaming. I saw this teaser trailer and was left dissapointed as it didn't tease season 4 but season 3. The only difference is that they added the wanderer music.
TheGardner
201. TheGardner
@MF - Sadly every scene in that teaser is from Season 3(I call foul!). The season 4 premier in Canada is only two months away and they aren't giving us jack!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
202. Kiersten
its called a teaser for a reason...it teases. yes, all shots were absolutely only from S3 w/only change being the cover of The Wanderer song by a woman, implying that Bo is somehow becoming The Wanderer. They had to get something out with it being t minus 69 and counting to the Canada premiere & appear to still be unwilling to share actual images from S4. Guess they'll come later. Its a crap move in my opinion. Better nothing than regurge
Nadine Robb
203. cmm
@Kiersten Exactly. Why bother if you aren't really going to make an effort.
Katherine Bloom
204. lsbloom
It's not so much the time until the premiere as the amount of footage they have to have in the can. Most shows are actively shooting while they air, so the first few teasers have almost no footage--like all the shows as SDCC who'd shot maybe one episode--they simply have nothing to cut together. But LG's been shooting for months, in fact are probably over halfway done. If they haven't figured out how to promote the season by now what are they doing? They should have some footage ready to show at the all the cons they are doing so they can build off of the promotion. Or they realize that their fanbase, while small, is obsessed and dedicate and doesn't need promotion to stay engaged. It does say they are continuing their goal of highlighting Bo all alone. Has that ever worked? But what do I know, I'm also sick of Bo's sex life. Not being afraid to show a sexy heroine is awesome, but replacing good character interaction and plot in deference to sex scenes is boring.
TheGardner
205. stacymd2
@MFrampton: Thank you for posting the trailer. I too am disappointed. For shame Lost Girl! I am not teased.

I’m so jealous of you who get to see LG in November. I will be good and wait until January for SyFy Channel’s premiere—maybe. I have never been the type to sneak a peek at my gifts on Christmas Eve. I enjoy the gnawing of anticipation. Staying away from spoilers and boards for Lost Girl, however, might be an impossible task.

I don’t know what it is about this show that drives me to constantly seek out blogs. Except for Stargate Atlantis I never posted for another genre program—especially a program on SyFy. Haven is returning next week and I’m not on pins and needles. Haven is a better show than LG by a mile.

@TheGardner: I agree with you (gasp!) that TPTB should find a reasonable way to end Dyson’s “wolves mate for life” circumstance. I don’t agree with your reasoning. As described on wiki, “Lost Girl is a Canadian supernaturalcrime drama television seriesthat premiered on Showcase on September 12, 2010.” Dyson is a police detective. Supernatural PIs, Bo & Kenzi, need his help (and vice versa) with their cases. A number of their cases in Season 3 were gotten through him or involved him because he is a detective. Out of the main characters (Trick, Tamsin, Kenzi, Hale and especially Lauren), Dyson is the only one who can (& has) have a plotline without Bo. This is why Season three sucked in comparison to S1 & most of 2. S3 was glaring in its pandering to Doccubus with its majority B/L focus. It wasn’t Tamsin that took away time/focus from Kenzi, Dyson and Trick, it was B/L.

@LindaL: I agree with you that Dyson has not been shown to be “miserable” since getting his love back. He doesn’t have to be. He has his work, probably still has ONS and is deeply entwined in Bo’s life. Waiting 20 – 30 years is a blink of an eye for someone who has lived 1,500 years. Bo has never cut Dyson out of her life, even when she was in a relationship with Lauren. She actively seeks him out.

TPTB should get rid of the D’s “wolves mate for life” condition because it has become an impotent, unnecessary story point that EA is using to string Dyson & B/D fans along. It is gives the illusion of a triangle without EA having to write Dyson as an equal participant in L/B/D. She can fully pander to Doccubus, whip up Tamsin love/fury, have Bo with multiple partners, but just keep up appearances with an implied bond between D & B. I know you guys may not agree, but I just don’t believe EA will go back to B/D, not until the last episode, of the final season. If Dyson is to wait 20 – 30 years for Bo (his first love), then I don’t see why he cannot have (feel) loving relationships as he waits. Bo is, why can’t Dyson?

TBTB will never bring in a real love interest for Dyson or make Lauren a strong, long running antagonist (not necessary an evil super villain). The writers at LG don’t want to get rid of the triangle for whatever futile reason. They like to keep their long running villains as comical fools (like Vex & the Morrigan) for whatever lame reason as well.
Minime
206. Minime
:) Hello it's "bean" a while ! Hehe some bad LG humor. I am enjoying all the comments I have been so busy with work I forgot that LG was just two months away! The teaser was disappointing but they don't seem to have a great promotions & PR department and I am sure they know that the fans pick apart EVERY scene and with the lockdown of ZP & RS my guess is that they want to keep everything close to the vest. It also seems that we are all watching every con interview online and perhaps thats all the "teasers" we will get.

I am a bit dismayed with the idea of walking back on the "mate for life" storyline, but they seem to walk back on everything so I wouldn't be surprised. IMO you don't have to do away with it, Dyson is not a monk and can continue dating and having hot tub fun with water sprites. Everyone who says Oh he has no story if he keeps the mate for like thing seems to forget that in season 2 he had NO LOVE but still had a storyline with Ciara. I also don't understand the need to put everyone in a relationship in order to give them value. Dyson can be Dyson and have a job a BFF and two kick as$ PI's in his life and be a fun flirty and caring guide to Bo as she learns more about the fae.

I saw a KS interview a few weeks back where she talks about how she went to the writers about having Kenzi find her own strength and how in season 4 Kenzi has to relearn how to be Kenzi i.e. living on her own and I hope to see a return to the russian speaking, shoplifting, wize cracking Kenzi of season 1 & 2.

Overall, I think that I love the idea of the show and the cast but the execution by the writers is really lacking. I always try to remember that Firestone wanted a "cheesecake" show about a bi-sexual woman in a love triangle that was not as dark as True Blood. But, for me I would love this show to be dark like Vexed and to address issues like "you have to be owned to be free" and "haven't you ever tried for something more" and to see both Lauren & Dyson trapped in that and inspired by Bo's push back. I don't want to see Bo end the fae but the tensions raised by giving the "lemmings ideas" Imo would have been amazing as would Bo coming to terms that she will live for thousands of years and the impact that would have on her. Anywhoo I have to go clean out my fridge I am getting all new appliances delivered today and I have to hit up Wawa and get bags of ice and more coffee. Lots more coffee, before I dive head first into updating my website this fine morning.
Pandra Selivanov
207. Zanza
I don't think they should get rid of the wolves-mate-for-life thing. What needs to happen is for people to stop obsessing over it and giving it so much importance. Bo is the great love of Dyson's life. And after he said that he was involved with Ciara, and that was after the Norn stole his love. Proof positive that Dyson is perfectly capable of having a relationship with someone other than Bo even though he considers her the love of his life and his one true mate. I should think something that graphic would satisfy anyone.

Like I said earlier, I feel the major problem is with Doccubi, who are irked that Bo is so important to Dyson-they want him to go away, so there will be no obstacles to Bo and Lauren. And this even though Lauren in the course of the show said plainly to Dyson that she knew he wasn't the cause of her problems with Bo. Kudos to the show for not only realizing this, but putting the words in the great Doctor Lauren's mouth. So cheapening Dyson and/or making him go away is not going to solve anything. I like it that he spelled out that he's a wolf and Bo's always going to be his mate and he's willing to wait forever for her and he'll love her even if he never gets her, but there's more to him than that.
TheGardner
208. TheGardner
I am so annoyed that everything always seems to comeback to shipping. When I stated that I think TPTB should ditch "wolves mate for life" it was about the wayI feel it limits Dyson's character, not about Bo and Lauren. In being saddled with this, Dyson is stuck, and unable to have a fully formed romantic relationship outside of Bo. I can buy that Bo is Dyson's "great" love, but where is it written that he is hers?

I am a huge BTVS fan and Dyson has always kind of reminded me of Riley Finn in a lot of ways. Here you have the guy who is used to being the leader, the strong one, the hero, and he has to take a backseat to this woman that eclipses him. This imbalence permiates into the romantic aspects of their respective relationships, in that the depth of feelings from both Riley and Dyson extend far beyond what Buffy and Bo return. In both cases, when the relationships end(Riley leaves town/Dyson looses his love) neither woman really fights for the relationship; I.e. Buffy never tries to track him down and Bo doesn't try and confront the Norn. They both simply accept the relationships as over and move on.

I realize in Bo's case that this was to facilitate the plot/season arc. When you consider in the same season Bo risks her life travelling to Africa to uncurse Nadia for Lauren. Couple that with the ease Kenzi, the weak, powerless human, was able to get it back for him it is glaring. This is not to say that Bo doesn't have strong feelings for him, it is simply hard to see them as all encompasing, epic, grand scale love when she sits back and watches him be miserable for a year.
TheGardner
209. Char
@TheGardner--I'm not talking about shipping. I'm disagreeing with you that Dyson's wolf mate for life is not developing his character. Dyson's mate for life is one aspect of him. He is a police officer who had an allegiance with Trick, the Blood King. He is also a friend of Hale, one of the royal families and the ex Ash of the light Fae. He works with Bo and Kenzi, his partners in his police work. When you don't like a character, for me that is Lauren, it is sometimes a challenge for me to see Lauren in an unbiased perception. But, I don't like Lauren for alot of reasons, and not because she loves(d) Bo. I don't like her because her past is cloudy(Karen) to include her years of living not adding up, she hurt her friend??Dyson by strapping him in a chair, never communicated with the woman she loves(d). She had a chance to leave, didnt take it and is upset when Hale denies her vacation--did like her standing up for herself, she slaps Tamsin, and on and on. But every time, you talk about Dyson, it is because wolves mate for life. Is there any other specific instances that you believe makes Dyson a one sided character?
TheGardner
210. Char
Dyson reminds me more of Angel, while Lauren reminds me of Ryan.

Dyson/Angel are heroes on their own merits, one is a wolf and the other is a vampire. Dyson and Angel have always tried to help the women they love when they are in danger but they need to realize these women are strong on thier own. Remember the episode when Angek goes to see Buffy in Buffy series finale and gives her a locket and she is being attacked by the One. Angel says to Buffy and I'm paraphrasing, Well, I was trying and see that I don't need to save this damsel in distress and Buffy says to him, I've never been damseling. Then Buffy slices the One in half. Ryan was a helper and never a hero. Just like Lauren.

Dyson could have his own show like Angel. But Ryan and Lauren are on the side to assist the Hero: Buffy and Bo.
TheGardner
211. Char
Sometimes, and hard to believe that Bo takes her friends and lovers for granted. Bo did not realize Kenzi was a fake for what 2 minutes? Nope even Bo forgot her friend. Bo never helps Dyson get his love back because shewasnt thinking about him. Bo neglects her relationship with Lauren because she wasnt thinking of Lauren but her pre and lost dawning.

Bo loves Lauren and Dyson. No one love is greater than the other. However, Bocan easily communicate with Dyson but not with Lauren.
Minime
213. Minime
Sometimes, and hard to believe that Bo takes her friends and lovers for granted. Bo did not realize Kenzi was a fake for what 2 minutes? Nope even Bo forgot her friend. Bo never helps Dyson get his love back because shewasnt thinking about him. Bo neglects her relationship with Lauren because she wasnt thinking of Lauren but her pre and lost dawning.
I think that this is my big issue with the show, Bo is so under developed emotionally. The show seems to drop so many threads and forces too much rather then doing things organically.
Megan Frampton
214. MFrampton
Again, convo-interrupting to bring sort of related news--apparently Ksenia Solo has tested for the next Star Wars, to be Han and Leia's daughter. A good move for her? What do you guys think?
Nadine Robb
215. cmm
@MFrampton If Ksenia Solo got the part, I'd go see it. Likewise if Liam McIntyre got his role as well.

@Minime I agree with your statement about Bo being under developed emotionally. I often find Bo is just dropped into any old situation and forced to react. Rather than having her put into a situation and deal with it accordingly. I however disagree with her not getting Dyson's love back, why would she? She tried to win him back earlier on and he was downright nasty to her, so why would she try to help him? I mean I understand why he was nasty to her but still that is no excuse. Also, with all she was told about the fae world, who's to say that she hadn't considered doing what kenzi did but was talked out of by Trick? With all that goes on offscreen, that wouldn't suprise me at all.

As for the wolves mate for life thing. I highly doubt that will effect him getting with other women along the way. I seem to remember when he slept with another woman the break up with Bo during season 1 and that did not seem to affect him in the slightest. Again I wouldn't be suprised if they weave into the story at some point, that after regaining his love he has had few girlfriends.
Annie Moore
216. drusilla_doll
Great discussion going on here.

@TheGardner, I will have to go with @Char on that analogy. IMO, Dyson is much more the Angel role to Bo's Buffy, and Lauren the Riley. In fact I see a lot of Lauren's insecurities in how Riley eventually breaks up with Buffy, right when Buffy thinks she's finally ready to commit to him. Lauren seems to the be the one, not Dyson who can't handle the stresses of being in a relationship with someone extraordinary, whose very nature differs from the standard monogamous human. I never particularly liked when she would gush on about how awed or overwhelmed she was by Bo's awesomeness - which imo increased her feelings of not being enough for her. This is brought to a head by the violent attack and comments made by the gilly monsters human boyfriend.

Dyson even had a 'brooding emo-jackhole' turn in season 2 which Angel similarly went through on his own show. Angel will always love Buffy even though they broke up early in the show and Buffy went on to have other loves. They would always have a deep bond which would endure the test of time. (And I am NOT a Buffy/Angel shipper at all, but I have to acknowledge that). I get those same kind of vibes with Dyson and Bo, in the sense that while they may not be together romantically again for a long time, or even ever, they will always have that deep bond and will always love and care for each other and want to have each other's backs.
Minime
217. Minime
@MFrampton that would be a big role for her, I hope she gets it. What do people think about a 5th season? I don't see it going past season 4 as it seems KHR and ZP are starting their own production company together, Anna has a new baby and KS seems to me to have a the best chance at a mainstream movie career. Thoughts?
Katherine Bloom
218. lsbloom
I have to agree with @Char and @Drusilla_Doll. Characterizing Dyson as Riley is a misjudgement of both shows. First off, Riley didn't start weak, he was a product of the initiative. Second, his difficulty was not in being weaker than Buffy, it was not being able to stay in her world once he was no longer getting the medicinal bump. In that way, he is like Lauren--not able to play in the same sandbox as Bo, except Lauren didn't take a caretaker role like Riley did. Lauren doesn't protect Kenzi or support Bo, and Lost Girl doesn't address the day-to-day. Riley was a solider, not a housewife, and Buffy excluded him. Bo doesn't do either to her lovers.

Dyson was built as a parallel to Angel--the show has never hidden its ripoff roots. Dyson losing his love eerily similar to Angel losing his soul. The only thing holding Dyson back is not being the star of the show. Angel's strength and build up to a heroic nature was only possible when he got his own show. When on Buffy, he had to be secondary. Dyson is secondary--but he isn't the least bit threatened by Bo and there has been nothing in the show to indicate that he is or has ever been. Hand to hand, Dyson is the best fighter on the show. Bo only wins with help or with plot (which is as it needs to be). Bo is strong and has power, but she doesn't use it and can't control it. Dyson is used to his strength and his power and he's seen it's limits ("believe me I've tried") Even in Kenzi's body he walks into danger to save his friends--frail, with bad eyesight, and in 6-in heels--Dyson relies on his wolf as a part of himself. But his heroism doesn't come from a belief in his own strength, it comes from his nature.

Strong men can handle strong women. And strong women can handle strong men. It sounds like @TheGardener you seem to think that strong women can only be with weak women and take the solo alpha position themsevles. But I find your entire discussion of the show to be counterinuitive. If Dyson is so weepy because Bo is stronger and more of a hero than he is, how can he simultaneously be so strong as to constantly hold her back? Pick a side instead of throwing the kitchen sink at a character. I understand you want Dyson to find a place in a corner and be a quiet little minion who doesn't impact Bo's life or get in the way of Lauren's screen time. Unfortunately for you, that's both not the character and not the way the show works. The show works when Bo and Kenzi go on cases and fight the establishment. Dyson is a part of that story. A necessary, important, and entertaining part.
Pandra Selivanov
219. Zanza
I am so annoyed that everything always seems to comeback to shipping. When I stated that I think TPTB should ditch "wolves mate for life" it was about the wayI feel it limits Dyson's character, not about Bo and Lauren.
@Gardener, since it's been conclusively proven in the course of the show that the wolves-mate-for-life thing has not limited Dyson as a character (he had a relationship with Ciara, he's built a partnership with Tamsin, he's maintained his friendships with Hale and Kenzi, and he has let Bo go to be happy with Lauren if that was possible) it seems to me the only reason to crab about that aspect of Dyson's character is that it gets in the way of Bo and Lauren. Not that Dyson has anything whatsoever to do with Bo and Lauren's problems. They would have crashed and burned as a relationship if Dyson had never been around at all. Isbloom's comment seems to sum up the problem perfectly.
Strong men can handle strong women. And strong women can handle strong men. It sounds like @TheGardener you seem to think that strong women can only be with weak women and take the solo alpha position themsevles. But I find your entire discussion of the show to be counterinuitive. If Dyson is so weepy because Bo is stronger and more of a hero than he is, how can he simultaneously be so strong as to constantly hold her back? Pick a side instead of throwing the kitchen sink at a character. I understand you want Dyson to find a place in a corner and be a quiet little minion who doesn't impact Bo's life or get in the way of Lauren's screen time. Unfortunately for you, that's both not the character and not the way the show works. The show works when Bo and Kenzi go on cases and fight the establishment. Dyson is a part of that story. A necessary, important, and entertaining part.
TheGardner
220. TheGardner
I was talking storywise, if we are talking personality wise, then defininitely Dyson has more in common with Angel. Actually I disliked Angel for similar reasons as I do Dyson; that whole tortured, whiney, moody, brooding, shirtless thing just doesn't do it for me. Although when he was evil, Angel was awesome.

@Char - "Wolves mate for life" is a huge detractor for Dyson, but that is not at all the only one. I try to not compare characters directly and look at each as individuals, hence the reason the "shipping" crap bugs me(I wasn't referring to you) so much. I have never made it any secret that I dislike Dyson, I can't find anything appealing about him and haven't since midway through season 2. I tried to give him the benifit of the doubt at the beginning of this season, but after a few episodes of his "love" drama I was done. Generally the only times he is tollerable is when he is OOC(i.e. 2x09, 3x03). Beyond that I find him boring and feel like he contributes very little to the show besides taking his shirt off. He could be a cool character; I would like to see the balence between the wolf and the man explored. He is also 1500 years old, I would like to see his past and his relationship with Trick explored. How did he end up where he is, why did he become a cop, has he been alone all of this time, etc.? Instead we get "Boo hoo the Norn took my love woe is me I'm going to be a dick to everyone I care about because I was stupid." followed by, "Yay! I got my love back, but poor me Bo doesn't want me, I'm just going to mope around until her human lover dies then it's back on!" I am sure that Dyson did other things, but this dragged on for over 30 episodes before it was resolved, maybe it's unfair, but that is pretty much all I see when I think of him.
Annie Moore
221. drusilla_doll
@TheGardner, I can see how you might dislike that sort of character. However, I would disagree that Dyson's been particularly mopey or whiney in first season or season 3. I fully am with you about him being annoyingly emo/broody in season 2, however. Imo, if anyone has exhibited 'boohoo, poor me', whiney, emotionally clingy tendencies this season, then surely it's DL not Dyson. Dyson seems far more at peace with himself, more sure of his place in Bo's life and confident that he's still very impt to her no matter who she has in her bed.
Katherine Bloom
222. lsbloom
Dyson angsted in the back half of season 2--about 10 episodes. And the only poor me episode was the one with the prisioner about suicide where he hit bottom and came out the other side determined to find another way. Yes, it was emo, but he did a great job and carried his own weight. Other than that, he pushed everyone away--that's not poor me. It's I'm not burdening you with my shit, I can't feel (what they changed the lost love to in the back half of season2 ) and I am self-destructing. He never asked for help or sympathy or anyone to feel sorry for him. In fact he asked Kenzi to keep it to herself. And it is worth noting that it wasn't just the loss of Bo, but the loss of the most important thing to him.

But this season, he was sidelined, but perfectly happy. He didn't mope at all.

I'm with @Drusilla_Doll why is Dyson showing emotion "moping" and Lauren being emo/angsty, mewling, weak, whiny, sad face pout all the time, being a great actress with lots of depth? Are men not to show emotion but blankly smile all the time? Is that why you like Hale?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
223. Kiersten
Depending on how S4 does with ratings, I think LG will go to a S5 but Im not sure what happens after that. KHK, ZP & Paul Amos have started a theatre company based in Toronto, not a production company (or at least not that I've heard yet), so its not necessarily what might make them leave LG if they even did. But contracts typically get re-negotiated after the 5th season, so I think that's when we could see real change
Minime
224. Minime
Yes, you are right it's a theater company. I think the Canadian ratings are steady it's just the US ratings that have fallen but since Syfy only buys it I think they will stick with it till the end. With only 13 episodes per season it may keep the actors signed on longer because they can still do other projects.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
225. Kiersten
Unfortunately, SyFy has a history of dumping shows like this after 4 or 5 seasons (Eureka, Warehouse 13) after drops in ratings. However, those shows were built/co-produced with SyFy I believe and dependent on the channel for production. LG was sold to SyFy after it was already a Canadian success, so even should SyFy stay true to character with LG, that doesn't necessarily mean the show can't/won't continue in Canada with additional seasons.
Katherine Bloom
226. lsbloom
Eureka had 3x the viewers Lost Girl has--heck even Alphas had better ratings. If it wasn't super cheap to acquire, I'm sure it would no longer be on the air. Canadian ratings are a fraction of what they started out in season 1. Showcase used to boast of LG ratings, they certainly haven't done that in awhile as the show is getting around 250,000 viewers. Maybe the US, CAN, UK, Aus prop each other up. Who knows. But if things drop in S4 the way they did in S3, I would be seriously worried for a 5th season.
TheGardner
227. Char
@TheGardner--But it's true. Dyson can wait 100 years for Bo. Fact: Fae live longer than humans. Since Dyson is Fae, he will live longer than Lauren. Bo is Fae and will live longer than Kenzi and Lauren. That's not stating an opinion but fact. Lauren and Kenzi will die in the next 60-70 years. I'm not being nasty but stating a fact.

I would be peed off if Dyson got his love back and moved into Lauren and Bo's relationship. That's a jackhole move. I would lose alot of respect for Dyson if he did that. But since he didnt, He wins alot of Brownie points. I know you say that Dyson is a whiner about his love returning but the wolves mate for life is One part of it. But he lost his ability to love. And in that moment, He lost his friends. He lost himself. For a woman that he knows is his mate for life. You see wolves mate for life as drivel. Cool. I see a man who appreciates love Now. He can love again. Not just Bo. It is not only Bo. He can feel now. He can emote. Dyson lives on instinct and a part of him died that day he lost his love for Bo. I can't wait for Dyson to be happy with or without Bo. Go Team Badass!

And if I were to ask Dyson if he would do it all over again, I k ow he would say yes. There's an aaaawwwww playing in the background.
TheGardner
228. Char
@drusilladoll---Drusilla is in my top 5 vampires. Loved her cockney accent. It was brilliant. For Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Now I too, was a little perturbed about Lauren gush in regards to Bo, but I get it. I mean, if I was in Lauren shoes, I would be drooling too at the succubus. So I give Dr Lauren some leeway on that.

Now I do believe that Lauren is insecure in her relationship with Bo. But when you are dating a superhero, you need to have a tough skin. Like Lois Lane and Mary Jane Parker. Yes, they have insecurities at time but they are bold like Kenzi and Zander.

Now the one character who Kenzi is reminding me of now is Gunn from Angel. He thought he needed to be all powerful and look where that got him. If you hang around superheroes, you will lose yourself if you are not careful. So be careful Kenzi.
TheGardner
229. Tamsin's Comb-over
I felt like being more creative then placing "The" infront of my last name.

@lsbloom - Don't presume to know me. How about we keep this about the show and its characters? When I was compairing Dyson and Riley it was about how they were both used to being the man in charge and had to take a step back when a more powerful person took the lead. On the relationship front, they are both all in while their ladies aren't as invested.

@Zanza - I would say that using Ciara(who left Dyson because he couldn't love her since his heart was still tied to Bo wether he could feel it or not) is not a valid counterpoint to "wolves mate for life" limiting his character.

@drusilla_doll - Like I said I don't generally compare characters directly, I didn't mention Lauren's propensity to whine(which I do agree that she is/can be, especially in Season 2) because I was commenting on Dyson. I can also agree that he was decidedly less mopy/broody in Season 3, but for me after, a few episodes of him still not revealing his love return I stopped caring about his story and spent the majority of his screen time playing Word Whomp.

@Char - I'm not disputing fae live longer then humans, and ITS get that Dyson is playingthe "long game", but just because Lauren is dead who says she goes back to him+
Annie Moore
230. drusilla_doll
I wasn't a fan of him not revealing his love return, but I understood it in terms of him having seen Bo move on and grow to love someone else. He'd decided not to intrude upon that, and I liked that he didn't try to just reclaim his place at Bo's side and in her bed. Still, I can understand why Bo might have been pissed at him keeping silent about it. Too bad the writers didn't want to show her reaction to the news. It was a lost opportunity in my opinion.

I think Dyson is fully aware that post-Lauren Bo might not want to go back to him. But he's willing to wait, regardless. It amuses me that ppl assume Bo and Lauren would last a lifetime. From what we've seen so far, that is extremely unlikely. Still, I think it's noble of Dyson to not actively try to steal Bo back while she's with Lauren. It implies that the respects Bo's decisions, even if it hurts him to see her with someone else. At least he's not callously saying 'you could do better' to Bo and is instead choosing to honor her choice.
Minime
231. Minime
I would say that using Ciara(who left Dyson because he couldn't love her since his heart was still tied to Bo wether he could feel it or not) is not a valid counterpoint to "wolves mate for life" limiting his character.
OK, I want to point out that Dyson told Ciara that if the Norn hadn't taken his ability to love anyone or anything including Hale, Kenzi or himself he would have loved her and been happy with her. I do wish that they never redshirted her I really liked her as an occasional member of the group. Dyson went back to the Norn and told her that she over reached and took all his love. Part of his heartache is that he had always had feelings for her and to me that reads that even though "wolves mate for life" they can still have other loves.


Dyson & Bo's relationship is complicated by many things like Trick pointing out in season 3's Delinquents that mated fae's hunt in pairs. I think that the writers leave so many threads hanging and points inferred that everyone see's thing differently. In thinking of the mated pairs statement plus Dyson's bended knee promise to be honest with Bo in Dis-Members he, even after loosing his love and no matter how harsh he was chose to keep his word to Bo and tell her the truth. Even though he lost his love still "hunted" with her. Something that Ciara not only picked up on but tried to join in on. I always thought that her dying statement of "love your self" was more of a wtf moment that showed that she never really got him or understood what he was trying to say to her about what the Norn took.

Once again I want to point out that I don't understand why a character has to be in a relationship in order to have value in a story or a storyline. In season 3 Dyson formed relationships with two dark fae, learned to move on from Bo, and finally learned to talk about his feelings. Plus he and Lauren seemed to bond. He seems settled to me. He is far different then the jerk who wouldn't keave Bo & Lauren alone for a date in season 1's Spider episode.

@Tamsin's Comb-over On a side note, I hope that you are The Gardner and are joking and not someone picking on her because that's a crap move. We might not all agree with each other but we never pick on or attack others here.
TheGardner
232. Char
Tamsin's CombOver---I don't get the Tamsin CombOver joke but it mist be an inside Joke. Now, you are correct that Bo may not go to Dyson in 100 or 1000 years, but so what? So what if he never gets the girl? He has told Bo his intentions and it is her move. The ball is in Bo's court. She decides if she is with Dyson. But Dyson could get Bo while Lauren is alive. There are many different possibilities.

Lauren and Bo are a bad combination together. I just don't understand why these 2 are so amazing. Why does any person consider Lauren and Bo amazing. And please don't say sex and chemistry.
Pandra Selivanov
233. Zanza
@Zanza - I would say that using Ciara(who left Dyson because he couldn't love her since his heart was still tied to Bo wether he could feel it or not) is not a valid counterpoint to "wolves mate for life" limiting his character.
Of course you would say that, because it is proof positive that Dyson can have a relationship with another woman even though his heart belongs to Bo. You're so transparent! You will never see anything good about Dyson no matter what he does, because you think he's in Lauren's way. The fact that Lauren herself said to Dyson that he's not the source of the problems with her and Bo means nothing to you. Nothing! You'll just go on hammering Dyson. "He should have another relationship. Oh, he had another relationship? That relationship doesn't count. He should have ANOTHER relationship. Oh, and he's a jerk who's too weak to stand on his own two feet and so strong he holds Bo back from doing anything. Did I mention he's a jerk?" Dyson is not going anywhere. And he's the guy Bo trusts and loves. She risked everything to rescue him and she didn't bat an eye when Tamsin pointed out Lauren was missing. These are the facts. Deal.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
234. Kiersten
Guys - a reminder to keep the discussion on the show and not make personal accusations toward/about individual posters. Sometimes it's better to take a breath and not post until the initial reaction has passed and passion is not so high. I had to learn that the hard way.

Thanks. Carry on.
Suzanne Metaxas
235. SuzyM
As to the Bar scene in S1-7 AracnoFaebia I think a lot of people are misreading Dyson there. Yes he is territorial by nature but he was at this point trying to make it look like Bo was not his girlfriend. ("We are not exclusive Bo") I think he is more worried about Lauren betraying Bo to the Ash than whether or not Bo will sleep with her. As it turned out he was right, Bo was not Lauren's first priority, her loyalty was to the Ash.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
236. Kiersten
Not for nothing, but while Bo and Doctor Lauren had indeed made plans to meet at The Dal in 1.7, Bo was already there with Dyson going over the case and had totally forgotten about the doc (early foreshadowing? hmm). Technically, it was DL who was intruding; Dyson merely declined to leave where he was already established...in more ways than one. And Bo didn't get up and leave Dyson behind to find another place to sit with Doctor Lauren either. She insisted DL join them instead and for Dyson to "scootch" over. She never outright asked him to leave and I think DL's attitude toward Dyson was partially driven by the fact that Bo didn't make any real accommodation for her at Dyson's expense.
TheGardner
237. Char
Star Wars I-III was not so great for me, so I can't be too excited about the future Star Wars.

@Kiersten---Favorite Ahow was Eureka. I was sad mSyfy dropped it but the series finale was awesome. It was a true happy ending.

@Isbloom--the viewership is down on every episode of Lost Girl in Saeaon 3. I can believe it. The writing is sloppy, the facts change on every episode, and it has become a soap opera. Just waiting for Bo's father to fall in love with the cabbit. And for the cabbit to proclaim that she is pregnant from Taft's and Lauren's injections.

Now I am smiling inside because EA created a monster: Doccubus. It is always great to have fans in your corner, but I would hate (love) to see Doccubus' fury when Lauren and Bo never get back together. It will be pure madness. And that is why Lauren and Tamsin's storyline has not been peeped to a person. Now Dyson and Kenzi fans are alot more laid back. Just chilling. Because while I am invested in these characters, I know it is only a tv show.
TheGardner
238. TheGardener
FTR I never said Dyson couldn't have a relationship, I said he couldn't have a full relationship with anyone besides Bo. He can engage with people, but he can't be in love with them, I see this as limitation. That is all I meant, sheesh!

@Char - Tamsin's Comb-over = she's a Valkyrie and her hair is falling out. Bald people
try to hide their baldness by using their remaining hair to "comb over" their scalp. Eh, it seemed funny @ 3am.

@Minime - Yeah it was me, I was in a goofy mood last night, I shall try to control myself in the future. ;-). I think that Dyson genuinely believed that he could have with her what he could no longer have with Bo. When the Norn slapped him with his reality it broke something in him, hence the Super-emo wolf we got for the rest of the season. I actually really liked her and was dissapointed she was killed off, plus their sex scene in 2x20, hoooooot.
TheGardner
239. TheGardner
I always saw that couch scene in 1x07 as another glaring example of how shit Bo is at being sensitive to other peoples feelings. The territorial pissing contest between Lauren and Dyson was secondary to this immature woman-child revelling in watching her love interests fight over her.
Carmen Pinzon
240. bungluna
@TheGardner -
...immature woman-child...
What a perfect description of Bo! I just wish the show would focus more on her finding her way to maturity and Fae adulthood rather than on her teenage fae ninja hormonal love life.
Katherine Bloom
241. lsbloom
@TheGardener with all due respect, I wasn't presuming to know you. I was discussing the various comments you've posted, which is the essence of a discussion. I know nothing about you, but I am aware of your stance regarding the show that you've made public. I apologize if your espousing of the standard doccubus talking points has caused you to be lumped into a group with which you don't identify.
__
I disagree with the idea that in drama (or even comedy) people should be sensitive, selfless, soothing characters. If everybody went around dispelling conflict and treating people in ideal ways, it would be dull. Drama is conflict. Bo could have stood between Dyson and Lauren, or she could let them fight it out because they are adults who don't rely on Bo to mediate their lives for them. In fact, Bo relies on them (and Kenzi) to mediate her interactions. Bo wasn't the only one at fault. Dyson stood his ground and threw out some low blows, Lauren acted like Bo couldn't have a life without her approval and then entered into a pissing constest when the only weight she had to throw around was her boss's. It was all around how people act when they are jealous, distrustful, and looking to establish heirarchy.

The discussion of "maturity" and Bo's lack of sensitivity to Lauren's needs is starting to become a hot button issue for me. Bo focusing on her dawning crisis and maybe excluding Lauren for a few months seems so perfectly reasonable to me. Heck, being super busy at work and not having enough time for a significant other for a short and definitive period of time is a reasonable thing that happens all the time. Kind of like, sometimes bosses don't approve vacation requests. Grow up and work through your issues and your lives, don't break up becuase someone got home late one night.
Nadine Robb
242. cmm
@Isbloom I couldn't agree more. You have worded what I wanted to say far better than I ever could.
Carmen Pinzon
243. bungluna
@lsbloom - I do feel that Bo is an immature succubus. So far in the show, she has refused to become part of either group of "her" people, which is fine. But then she refuses (or the writers refuse to let her) learn more about Fae culture and how it works as far as it affects her.
Another thing I see as an example of her immaturity is the denial of her own nature. She wants to be human and monogamous, fine and dandy. I want to be tall and skinny; doesn't mean it's going to happen. Denial of one's own nature is an ugly thing. She seems oblivious to the feelings of those around her most of the time, which I interpret as a lack of sensitivity and immaturity.

This last season became MY hot button. The way all the characters were manipulated and made to act like idiots to serve whomever's purpose was ugly, imo. As far as Bo went, she didn't talk to her significant other (in fact she lied,) she also neglected her BFF to a dangerous degree (after bringing her into a world Kenzie's not equiped to deal with on her own.)

Never mind the "coming out" episode; I think I've said what I think about it one too many times as it is.
Nadine Robb
244. cmm
@Bungluna See I don't see those things as being immature, I see it as being ignorant of fae culture. From her pov I understand it too, why should she? These are the same people that abandoned her into the human world and left her to fend for herself. If she decides to learn about fae culture, which I see happening perhaps in season 4 it should be on her terms and her terms alone. As for her denial of her own nature, again I understand that as well. She spent years in a culture where you date and marry one single person. It's only natural she would want to continue this cultural thinking. Also with both her relationships (Dyson and Lauren) they have pretty much demanded she love them and only them. I was really proud of her season 1 when she told Dyson she would hang out with whoever she wanted to hang out because it showed and independance on her part. Season 3 with Lauren I was dissapointed when she agreed to that no Dyson rule. I felt like the Bo that agreed to that was not the Bo I knew from season 1. If she we're season 1 Bo she would of told her where to go.
TheGardner
245. whiskeywhite
Like @Minime, I've "bean" busy (as a Canadian I can legitimately say that :-) ). It's beyond annoying when work cuts into my LG discussion time!

Laugh out loud award of this post goes to @stacymd2 with her "I am not teased," with runner up to @Minime for "giving the 'lemmings ideas'."

Oh my goodness, what an excellent discussion! And I'm so behind. So please excuse if I relate to some comments that were made long ago (like 5 days :-)).

I just have to object to the idea that Lauren doesn't care "if Bo lives or dies as long as she doesn't heal-bang Dyson" (@Zanza) or "would rather see Bo dead than have healing sex with Dyson" (@LindaL). Ditto that "Bo will crawl away and die before she breaks her promise" (@Zanza). It has been demonstrated before that Bo will turn to others for healing sex if Dyson is not available (the fast food worker when Dyson is absent, Ryan when Dyson is emotionally absent). Granted she hadn't declared herself as monogamously tied to Lauren at the time, but Bo is not going to crawl away and die (especially, I would argue, after her near death experience of trying to be completely monogamous). And Lauren opens the field for Bo to everybody in the world except Dyson (not that I like her excluding Dyson, but I understand it). Even before Lauren takes that action, Bo herself excludes Dyson after the emergency healing ("this cannot happen again. With our history... You understand, don't you?").

@Char, you demonstrate your endless creativity again -"Could she steal Bo's daddy DNA and grow resurrection Fae? How about using her brains and harvesting the Norn and her tree of life?"
D K
246. DarthFaeder
Hello folks well hmmm looks like you guys are the only ones out there who are still having intelligent non shipper type conversations about Lost girl. I have to say its pretty nice to see.I have a particular ship I like, but will try to not cloud my posts with it. I have to disagree at the notion that Bo is immature maybe tad selfish but who isn't? She's gone from thinking that she is human to being thrust into a dangerous world and it's over the top politics. She is a strong Alpha female who is sexy, independent , compassionate, forgiving i.e. Tamsin, smart, and a leader. She is a take no shit type of character who makes no excuses for who she is. I will allow for the fact that she seems to have regressed as a character since EA has taken over duties. The fact that they lost have lost a decent amount of viewers since season 1 is a testament to how much the show has changed from its origins. Sloppy and weak writing, pandering to fans, lack of character developement, and plotlines that are kinda confusing have really been sad. It seems that they have really painted Dyson into a corner as far as the wolf mates for life things goes. I find it hard to believe that he's never been in love before meeting Bo. He's been around for 1500 years at least. Also I do recall him wanting to be with Ciara when he met her 1500 years ago, when he was with his clan. It all seems so unbelievable. I do agree with whomever suggested that EA is trying to create the allusion that the Bo,Lauren, and Dyson triangle is still in force. I am actually quite offended that she actually believes that the fans are going to buy it. As far as the new character Tamsin is concerned I think they hit the ball out of the park with that move. Tamsin has brought alot of interest back to LG and now a new fanbase ship has been born. I am going to be very interested to see what kind of relationship is going to evolve between Bo and Tamsin. I've seen people complain about Bo and Tamsin perhaps hooking up, but I say that Bo's a succubus and shouldn't be limited to one partner. She struggled with monogamy even though she really wanted it to work. I am not crazy about all the cliffhangers they left open at the end of season 3. I will say though that it will cause season 4 to open with a bang.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
247. Kiersten
Hi @DarthFaeder and welcome! Thanks for joining in with our Lost Girl conversation.
TheGardner
248. whiskeywhite
On to the dreaded discussion of 'Will Dyson be miserable without Bo? And is his character limited by "wolves mate for life"?'.

@Zanza responds, and I agree, "Dyson had a full and interesting and happy life before he met Bo, and he’s perfectly capable of continuing to do that even if he never gets to be with her." Similarly, I agree with @stacymd2 (though the wait is probably more like 60 years):
"Bo has never cut Dyson out of her life, even when she was in a relationship with Lauren. She actively seeks him out. ... If Dyson is to wait 20 – 30 years for Bo (his first love), then I don’t see why he cannot have (feel) loving relationships as he waits."
Minime contributes, rightly, that "Dyson is not a monk and can continue dating and having hot tub fun with water sprites." @Char argues, and again I agree: "I see a man who appreciates love Now. He can love again. Not just Bo. It is not only Bo. He can feel now." I don't know about one night stands (it took me a while to figure out what ONS was). There's much talk (or insinuation) of that about Dyson, but we don't see it really. He can definitely have 'friends with benefits', even 'acquaintances with benefits' :-).

The crux is whether, as the @TheGardner asks, Dyson can have "fully formed romantic relationships beyond Bo." Depends what one means by "fully formed" of course. @Minime and @Zanza bring up, as I would, Dyson's relationship with Ciara. But it's important to note that (as @TheGardner also recognizes) he begins that relationship before he realizes that the Norn has stolen his ability to love anyone, not just Bo. He believes that he can love Ciara, and he really tries hard to build the relationship she wants (complete with mega mansion. BTW, did I mention that I noticed that after she died, in season 3 he still had her painting on his wall? I would think that would bring back painful memories. But maybe good ones as well). Once he learns from the Norn that he can never fully love Ciara, he mans up and admits that to Ciara, losing her as a result.

While we're on Ciara, as I've said before I, like @TheGardner, really liked her and that 2.20 sex scene was indeed "hoooooot". I nominated the scene where they are lying up in bed afterwards fondly reminiscing as one of my favourite scenes of the series. So warm and caring.

But now that Dyson has his ability to love back (and BTW never stopped being able to care deeply about people -- Bo, Ciara, Kenzi), what is a "fully formed romantic relationship"? Does it mean, "you are my one and most important love forever"? In that case, Dyson can't have one while he loves Bo. Or does it mean "I love you deeply for now and for long as we are both happy in the relationship"? Dyson can have that.

Will the series allow that? Speaking of one-note characters, I've whined many times before about the series' fixation on 'monogamy forever' as the definition of 'love'.

Then @TheGardner asks the $24 million question: "I can buy that Bo is Dyson's "great" love, but where is it written that he is hers?" I don't think that Bo has "great" loves in the same way. But it's clear that despite loving Lauren, and trying to remain committed to her (at least before being blindsided by the "break"), Bo does still love Dyson. He's definitely a long-term contender.
TheGardner
249. whiskeywhite
I second Kiersten's welcome @DarthFaeder. Yes, we are the intelligent group :-) :-). I especially welcome you as a fellow non-monogamist (plot-wise, I mean :-)).

A couple of more points to catch up then I will shut up.

I feel a little left out of the Buffy discussion (pout -- :-) ). I missed the entire Buffy phenomenon. I recently tried to catch up -- I watched re-runs, read a book and even sought remedial tutoring from a younger friend. But it didn't stick (not that I didn't like it, I just can't discuss it intelligently). However, from what I saw, and just to show how pedestrian I am, I was a Spike fan (James Marsters is coming to our local ComicCon in Nov.).

I do think LG will go to season 5 -- KHR was talking reasonably confidently about that at DragonCon. @lsbloom, you make a good point about the international ratings (which comes down to sales. As long as Showcase and Prodigy can make money on LG, they'll continue I would think). In addition to the US, UK and Australia, it's also shown in France (using the French version made for Quebec) and other places I think. Netflix bought it (rented it?), though it's not there now, and will presumably buy future seasons.

I'm pleased to hear about KS having a chance at Star Wars. I was wondering what she's been up to other than LG. And fascinating news about the theatre company being formed by KHR, PA and ZP. They're obviously planning ahead, and planning to stay in Canada (though I suspect that Paul would jump at Hollywood -- he's an accidental Canadian).

OK, salut! for now.
Katherine Bloom
250. lsbloom
@Bungluna I do agree with your instances of Bo's "immaturity" (most of the time people are only really talking about her relationship-wise). Some bug me more than others. This season really made Bo's refusing to pick a side seem less a moral stand and more an issue of...well I call it petulance. She won't even pick a card!?! Come on. No choosing available options for Bo. It was the first time it felt obnoxious to me. I'm not sure it counts as a regression of character so much as a re-evaluation from the writing team of just what underpines Bo's "I will live the life I choose mantra." Personally, I look at it as a rewriting fail and not a character trait. They've changed so much; therefore, I felt like my understanding of the choose a side theme--which was only clear in season 1--was no longer valid. 'Cause really what from season 1 still applies? Not even the way Bo heals.

I really liked season 1's themes of self-determination and freedom, loyalty vs obligation. It felt like you were both watching Bo find herself and a new family and find out this facinating new world. Without those themes, it does seem preposterous that Bo wouldn't crack a book, or choose a side, or take some fighting lessons. She's just kinda free floating from one crisis to another without logic or planning. But then again, so are the writers.
D K
251. DarthFaeder
Hello Kiersten and Whiskey and thank you for the welcome. I am really looking forward for season 4 to get here so we can move on to some new and exciting talking points.The best thing for the LG writers and producer Firestone would be to concentrate alot less on Bo's love life, and get on with the unveiling of alot of character backstories and character developement. Get back to the awesome dynamics that is Bo and Kenzi and I think that all will be forgiven. After all I really do feel when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it all Bo will choose Kenzi over everyone else anyways. I don't mean romantically I just mean in general.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
252. Kiersten
I think there needs to be an important distinction made about what The Norn (Freaking Norn!) took from Dyson. The Norn takes what you value most in exchange for what you most desire. She took Dyson's love for Bo because it held the greatest value for him, above and beyond his wolf which arguably can be seen as his soul. Because he is a wolf-shifter who mates/loves for life, that meant The Norn took all of his love because he gave all of it to Bo...but she did not take all of his feelings. That would have made him a sociopath, not a jackhole, and a sociopath doesn't sacrifice himself so his loved ones can escape as Dyson did with The Garuda.

The reason he still had feelings of affection (i.e. platonic love) for Kenzi, Hale, even for PerfectCiara, is because that is, as it is in everyone, a separate kind of love from the kind one gives to a mate/partner/spouse, whatever the configuration. The Norn did not take Dyson's entire ability to feel or his ability to love everyone/anyone. He still has the ability to love in S2. It's the type of love that he has or doesnt have to give that is in question. It's the (I hate to say romantic because for many people that's a weakness or a temporary thing, but it's the only distinction I can come up with at the moment) the romantic love he has for Bo that has been taken and that is a huge gaping hole for Dyson because he first made the decision to give all of that kind of love to Bo. He held nothing back from her and thus lost all of it. And when I say romantic I don't mean temporary if passionate infatuation. I mean the hard core, faults and all, let's interweave our lives together, man you piss me off but I can't imagine my life without you, love.

As a species who forms those deep love bonds for life, nothing Dyson could develop in S2 with someone else would ever be as fulfilling as the relationship he can/will have with Bo. His misery in S2 increased after his second visit to The Norn because she clarified all that for him. Not that she'd overreached, but that he hadn't realized what giving all of that love to Bo would mean once it was gone. That's the blessing and curse of such a connection as he has for and with Bo, the cruel, brutal twist of the "wolves mate for life" axiom.

So yes, Dyson could have gone out and have sexual relationships with other women (fae or human) in S2 (and he did) and these can even be more than ONS although he'd have to come clean with them first about not being able to offer more than friendship and affection to avoid retreating to jackhole status, as he finally did with PerfectCiara and reaped the consequences. Likewise, he could've even continued to have a relationship with PerfectCiara while not having his love back yet from The Norn (Freaking Norn!) because he did retain that ability to have platonic love and affection for others, as he frequently demonstrated with her and especially Kenzi (and occasionally with Bo). PerfectCiara naturally wanted more because she was in love with him and chose not to stay in a relationship with a man who could not offer more to her than he'd already given (hmm, maybe she and Doctor Lauren should form a support group).

In S3, with his love returned, I think Dyson was far from sexually idle. I think its more of EA's sucktastic "offscreen" philosophy for narrative development. It's almost certain he indulged when out with Tamsin after the shrink episode. Frankly, if we the audience are meant to accept Bo's casually trolling for partners at The Dal with Doctor Lauren and embrace (as we do) her empowered sexual proclivity as part of her character/nature, then we must avoid the reverse double standard of judging Dyson (or Hale or Trick or Ryan...) for the same. But with the supernatural element out of the way (i.e. love stolen now returned), Dyson has yet again re-asserted his love for Bo. He told Trick that his feelings for Bo will never change and this time he made that commitment with the full brutal knowledge of all that it entails.

Why continue to lament that a man, this man, has renewed his committment to this woman knowing full well all the heartache and trials that have and may again come with it? Why regret that having suffered so greatly in their relationship (and as much of a jerk as he was, that behavior came out of deep, miserable, emotional suffering), he chose again to stay? Why bemoan what we so often acknowledge is so difficult to find in today's world? How many men/partners/spouses have abandoned their "mates" when times got tough, when "love" just wasn't enough anymore? Here's a character who has more than anyone (not counting the ones Bo accidentally killed) suffered for love of this woman and when all is restored and he can make a new decision, he sticks to his guns and says "you're worth it, no matter what."


That's not sad and pathetic and whiny and needy and spineless.

That's damn near heroic.
Carmen Pinzon
253. bungluna
@lsbloom- your comment about Bo "free floating from crisis to crisis" made me think about Stephanie Plum and her existance between Ranger and Morelli. Tamsin must be the Diesel in the mix. I just don't think the character of Bo has advanced at all, in fact it has regressed, in the 3 "years" the show has been on.

Another definition of immature is "not fully grown". When do the fae become fully grown? The Yawning indicate that they are physically mature? We just haven't been given a true sense of how 'mature' Bo really is. She just keeps acting very naive and dithery for a woman who has lived on the streets for decades and is in essense a serial killer with a concience.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
254. Kiersten
@bungluna - totally agree about the Stephanie Plum analogy. I LOVED those books madly into the teens but got so weary of her childish, stubborn, fluctuation between beaus. When Evanovich made it public that she'd never have Stephanie choose, I stopped reading. It all became the same thing over and over again without enough change to make it feel new. Adding Diesel made it worse - an angel? really? - b/c it took out even the faint attempt at a connection to reality.
Pandra Selivanov
255. Zanza
TheGardner asks the $24 million question: "I can buy that Bo is Dyson's "great" love, but where is it written that he is hers?" I don't think that Bo has "great" loves in the same way.
I don't think Bo experiences love the way humans would understand it, but her grandmother was married to Trick and we know Fae take marriage seriously, perhaps far more seriously than humans. I think when it comes to Bo, her body and her heart are always going to be two separate things. Physically she is never going to be monogamous, as her physical needs don't allow this. Mentally, emotionally, spiritually, I think Bo is capable of having one great love, and she certainly seems to want this.

I don't think Lauren ever had a chance to be that love. Her being a mortal woman doesn't even enter into the picture here. What stops Lauren from being the great love of Bo's life is the complete unsuitability of the two of them as partners. They don't talk. They don't share the same values, or interests. There is nothing they enjoy doing together, beyond sex, and even that is pitifully inadequate, with Bo left wanting more as Lauren is left drained.

Dyson...I love him to pieces, so I'm biased. I admit it, fully and freely. But there are a number of things that show what a bond he and Bo have. From the very first episode, Dyson put Bo first. She didn't know what it meant for him to give her some of his strength, but she has to have processed it by now, and what a risk he took for her practically at first sight. So different from the horror show that was Bo and Lauren's first meeting, but I digress. Bo and Dyson both love Kenzi. They're both warriors. They talk to each other, and they don't dodge the tough questions. And Bo loved Dyson enough to bring him out of the temple and back from the dead. "He's worth it." Sounds like a once-in-a-lifetime love to me.
Nadine Robb
256. cmm
Welcome @DarthFaedar. Gotta say I love the name lol!
D K
257. DarthFaeder
@cmm thanks I thought it was a pretty cool username so why not? @ Kiersten that is some pretty in depth analysis about Dyson's love. I am thinking that I have gotten way over my head lol!! Just kidding :)
TheGardner
258. Char
@whiskeywhite--There is so much story that Lost Girl can make, and or create. They don't need to push the triangle to the fore front. I don't mind the triangle (as boring as it is) but lets see some Faery Tales.

@DarthFaedar--I love the name also @cmm. Welcome to the discussion!

@Bungluna--- I don't read the Plum novels anymore and what a horrible movie. But I too agree with the analogy. Plum and her last book 18 books just wanders (get it) around, gets in trouble and always gets out of it because of help with Ranger and Morelli. Love those two guys and wish they had thier own books. @Kiersten---Don't understand Diesel in Plum books, but he works in his own books--the Wicked novels.

@Kiersten---Loved your comments in 252. I agree that the Norn was despicable at what she did but when Dyson made his Faustian deal, he had to deal with the repurcuasiins. He became a major jackhole and I hated him in Season 2 but he still tried to be a better jackhole. In Original Skin, Kenzi and Dyson talk at the end, showed me that he still can care but not at his wolves mate for life love level. Ciara got the short end of the stick with her relationship with Dyson but at least he manned up and told her the truth. The difference between Dyson/Ciara and Bo/Lauren. Dyson spoke to Ciara, while Bo's head remains in a bubble and forced Lauren to talk to Bo. And what you so gracefully said "why bemoan what we so often acknowledge is so difficult to find in today's world?" Speaks volumes to me. Dyson is willing to commit to Bo, a succubus with challenges and will come with more challenges. Relationships are so difficult and at times seems to fail, but Dyson is willing to put his heart and life in the line for her is so endearing. I'm weeping right now.
TheGardner
259. Char
@Bungluna and Zanza---My frustrations with Lost Girl is that they do not delve into the Bo's mythology side of the succubus. Bo seems to add more power: resurrection, blood princess and yet Lost Girl never explains how Fae mature, how a succubus matures. I mean could Lost Girl have Bo open a book about succubus, @Isbloom read a few pages, and explore that side of her Fae.

@DarthFaeder---I agree with you that Bo and Kenzi's friendship and loyalty are never wavering. And it is great to see a show showcasing 2 female relationships that are not ahown as catty. Refreshing. But Bo has become selfish and has forgotten Kenzi. But idk, if that has to do with her Faeness, succubus tendencies, blood, resurrection, or human mentality/culture. So yes, less triangle and more story and character development.

@Zanza---Are Lauren and Bo perfect together? No. Are they suited for one another? I don't think so. I mean Lauren is not my favorite character. She is on the bottom. But can 2 people with no common interest be together? Yes. It will be challenging but it could work. But Lauren is not willing to wait for Bo. She wants to find her someone now. And I do believe that Lauren should not wait for Bo. She doesn't have the years to wait. I believe that Lauren waited long enough for Nadia. But do Gumans owned by the Fae have a life outside of the Fae? Where does Lauren find her someone if not Bo? The Ash are not too keen on having thier humans walk around freely, Hale and Bo are the exceptions. Kenzi is free to do what she wants because of Bo. So Kenzi has had more opportunities to find someone. Lauren ran away and I am glad for her. She needed it.
Pandra Selivanov
260. Zanza
@Char, I do not believe two people with no common interests should be together. I don't believe it works. It's one thing to have differences-I've seen people of different religions, or races, living together quite happily as long as they respect each other's differences, and I've seen people get divorced citing reasons like mental cruelty over how the toothpaste tube is squeezed or which direction the toilet paper is facing.

Differences are not interests. When there are no common interests, people wind up living separate lives. Which is fine as long as both parties are happy with the arrangement, for financial purposes or for the children or whatever. Living separate lives because you have nothing in common with your partner and there is nothing you enjoy doing together is not a relationship. It may last for the lifetime of one of the partners, but it is not a relationship.

As to where Lauren finds someone if not Bo, that is a good question, seeing how she's been under the thumb of the Fae for almost a decade. Maybe that's another reason she ran. Maybe she has finally realized she can't have Bo, that even if Dyson wasn't around she still wouldn't have Bo, and she wants to find someone to grow old with. Could be very interesting if the Fae catch up with Lauren and she's playing house with a new fancy. As you say, she doesn't have years and years to spare.

I wish they would delve more into the story of the Fae. I keep thinking of Dyson's offhand remark about a water nymph and the legend of Ondine. There's a good possibility. There are many others. Then there's Dyson's backstory (how did he get involved with Trick?) and they could have Bo sit down and talk to Trick about how a succubus has a committed relationship. I'd like to hear Bruce talk about Medieval Fae Poetry, and I'd like to know more about the culture of the Fae. As you say, less triangle and more story! And so help me, if Andras denies us one more important conversation on the grounds that we don't need to hear it, I'm gonna put a whammy on her. I'm gonna bribe a banshee to go wail at her. :D
Kiersten Hallie Krum
261. Kiersten
It's been all but guaranteed that we get more of Dyson's back story in S4 and particularly how he and Trick first became aligned/friends. We also know that Bruce will be back and that Vex has a much bigger role in S4 as well. What's been universally acknowledge by all cast and crew is that S4 takes what we think we know of Lost Girl and turns it all upside down. That could mean anything, but it certainly suggests that S4 might be moving back to the great Urban Fantasy roots with which this show began. I also strongly suspect there will be some Dyson/Kenzi almost action, be in some kind of undercover situation or Fae-forced interaction that will put them in a new configuration. In a DragonCon interview, KHR carefully worded that there are things deliberately included in S4 due to fan-expressed desires and that Dyson and Kenzi are part of that. (They call it Kyson as opposed to Denzi). Circumstances deviate those two away from the brother/sister vibe in the premiere and second episode but eventually work their way back around to it but the back half of the season. Until it airs, everything is speculation, but there it is.
Nadine Robb
262. cmm
@Char I've always been here lol. It's just sometimes I don't respond cause I get too passionate about it. It's at this point I step back and say it's a tv show and not respond at all. I just get frustrated at the fact that everytime something doesn't go right where Bo is concerned, she's called immature. This is the case particularly with Bo/Lauren fanfic. It's always Bo's immature so that's why the relationship failed. Nevermind the fact that they are two people in that relationship and the other shares some of the blame. As i've said before I just think Bo's ignorant. The only immaturity she may posses is where her biology is concerned. In terms of that, yes, she's a young fae. Relationship wise, she's not immature but she is also not allowed to move on. I truly believe if the original showrunner was in charge of the show again, Bo would of branched out more in terms of her sexuality.

Anyways, I'm begining to wonder if Bo serves some higher purpose. I'm wondering if her purpose is to unite the fae? I think when the three laws were written and fae became light and dark something happened that changed the fae. Who knows it could be gearing up in future seasons to some big clash between both sides.
Carmen Pinzon
263. bungluna
Yes to LG going back to UF roots as opposed to the "Twilight" effect.

Yest to having a Bo with a higher purpoes and an epic fantasy story arc.

No more soap opera bed-partner swapping, PLEASE!

DEATH TO TRIANGLES

Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
D K
265. DarthFaeder
@Char hello nice to meet you. I think that since the writers now have Bo in a serious monogamous relationship with Lauren has something to do with her having less time with Kenzi. You know how it goes right? One of your friends gets serious about his or her boy friend or girl friend, and all the other relationships suffer because of the more serious commitment. I think you also have to consider that they made a conserted effort to ingratiate Tamsin into Bo's life this season. All this time that Bo is spending with Tamsin and Lauren was spent with Kenzi and Dyson in season 1. In season 1 all Bo had was Kenzi and Dyson and now more people have come into Bo's life which means less time for Kenzi and Dyson. It will be interesting to see if they the writers will pair Bo and Kenzi up with Tamsin. It will also be interesting to see if Hale and Dyson go back to being Detective partners? I seriously doubt that it will be a Tamsin, Hale , and Dyson team. Trick will be stuck in the Dal and Lauren will be in her lab. @Zanza LOL!!! I also agree I'd like to send a Banchee after EA too. As far as I'm concerned she has ruined LG and should be fired. @Cmm I understand your frustration about the Bo and Lauren fanfic always villifying Bo. They see Lauren as the hero and the focal point of the show. Some of them are so digusted with Bo that now they have created a new crack ship called CopDoc Tamsin/Lauren. They have forgotten that it is forbidden for any Dark Fae to get involved with a human. They also seem to over look the fact that Tamsin could be in love with Bo. Is she in love with Bo? I certainly am not going to say that yet. I think only the cast and crew know that answer right now, and the rest of us will have to wait and see. @Bungluna I'd like to second everything you just said in #263!
Suzanne Metaxas
266. SuzyM
Welcome @DarthFaeder Looking forward to your input to our discussions :) I agree with a lot of what you've said. I'm praying for a S4 that returns to S1 story lines. I'm also a huge Dyson fan who wants to see Bo/Dyson back together again. I don't hate Dr. Lauren I just wish the writers would write her a decent story line that I could get on board with. Will join in more when I get done with my chores :D
Pandra Selivanov
267. Zanza
Darthfaeder, welcome! I totally agree with you that EA has ruined the show with her fanservice and her shameless pandering to Doccubus and that she should be fired. I marvel the show got another season with this woman at the helm. Well, we can hope for better things this season, now that Lauren has burned her boats with the Fae and Bo doesn't even care to look for her. Maybe Bo and Dyson will finally get a chance to just relax and have some fun with each other. I'd rather not see any more of the strained "But I'm a MONOGAMOUS succubus!" I'd like to see Bo grow up before she tries commitment again and if she does wind up with Dyson, which I hope she does, I want that to be the series finale.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
268. Kiersten
I find it interesting that when Bo (with Doctor Lauren) and Dyson (with PerfectCiara) try, for whatever reasons, to have a relationship with someone else, it's riddled with angst and conflict and lack of communication and lies and secrets and manipulation. The only time they've each ever been truly happy in a relationship is those scant few scenes we got of them together in the end of season one. Granted, there were still things to be worked out, and that joy was likely greatly influenced by the first bliss of having finally admitted their feelings to one another. But by the time S1 ended all the things that had to be said had been said and Bo was already working her way back from her initial angry reaction to all Dyson and Trick had revealed. She sure didn't hold it against Trick for long. Had The Norn (Freaking Norn!) not taken Dyson's love, I suspect they would've continued moving forward.

No-conflict means no drama, and I'm not saying that they would have remained conflict free or that even that I'd want it to. Merely that the only unfettered happiness they've had in this show romantically (and I"m not including sexual bliss here) has been with each other. It's when the narrative (or just TPTB) force them to seek love(s) elsewhere that we see them having to force aspects of those joinings and really struggle to make anything work before it all inevitably it falls apart. But once they move back toward one another again, the happiness of merely being back in each's other's romantic orbit shines through again. Here's hoping we see more of it in S4
TheGardner
269. Char
@DarthFaeder---I get that in a relationship you forget your other friends and hang out with your new love thang. But in Eason 1 when Dyson and Bo were getting hot and heavy and ultimately went into a monomgomaus relationship, I never saw Kenzi on the sidelines. She was incorporated in the relationship. However, when it was Lauren and Bo, it was only Lauren and Bo. Kenzi was on the sideline. I agree that since Bo has more allies, she may not have time for her friends but I don't know if Kenzi wants to spend time with Tamsin. And I don't know if a dark Fae can spend time with a human??? Hale and Dyson can be partners again, but would Hale want to and could he since Tamsin has that position?

I don't know anything about Tamsin so I will cast judgement during Season 4.

There is a huge disconnect between season 1, Season 2, and Season 3! I feel as though I have watched 3 different tv shows. Here is to hoping that Season 4 brings the other seasons together.
Pandra Selivanov
270. Zanza
I find it interesting that when Bo (with Doctor Lauren) and Dyson (with PerfectCiara) try, for whatever reasons, to have a relationship with someone else, it's riddled with angst and conflict and lack of communication and lies and secrets and manipulation. The only time they've each ever been truly happy in a relationship is those scant few scenes we got of them together in the end of season one.
@Kiersten, which kind of goes to what I was saying earlier. Eros is all very well and good, but agape is where love really shines. Bo and Lauren were mostly about lust, and not very fulfilling lust at that. Bo and Dyson, on the other hand, have the whole package. Lust, sure, very hot and heavy lust, but they also have friendship and communication and similar interests. They're just fine as friends, although it's pretty plain they both want more with each other. One of the most telling things is like what Char said, about how Kenzi didn't get pushed out when Bo was with Dyson. She was part of the dynamic. Lauren didn't want Kenzi anywhere around. Which means that with Dyson, Bo can have her boyfriend and her best friend and be one big happy family. With Lauren, she was always torn.
D K
271. DarthFaeder
@Char yes you are right and you can blame the disconnect on the fact that the creator of the show sorry I forgot her name, left after I think season 1, and in season 2 EA started as showrunner. I think that the fans have pretty much demanded a return to something similar to season 1. As far as Kenzi wanting to spend time with Tamsin KS has already indicated that Kenzi will be having more screen time with Tamsin. I took that to mean that Kenzi will be getting alot of help from Tamsin at the beginning of the season to find Bo. After Bo has been found then I am not sure how much time Kenzi has with Tamsin on screen, and or Bo has with Tamsin on screen. The writers have to stick Tamsin either with Bo and Kenzi, or they have to keep her as Dyson's partner with maybe Hale tagging along too? Perhaps Tamsin will just be a free agent just showing up every once in awhile who knows? As far as Dark Fae i.e. Tamsin spending time with humans well she doesn't have much of a choice. Bo has 2 humans in her life that are pretty important to her. Tamsin will have to get on board or take a hike. I've had friends that had other friends other than me that I didn't like, but I did my best to try and get along with them. @Kiersten I have seen that EA won't let Bo be happy with Lauren, so I am not all that sure she'll let Bo be happy with Dyson either. I could be completely off base with that statement of course. @Zanza hello nice to talk to you . I am sure that as long as EA is at the helm that Lauren is going to be around. She will make sure that Lauren is welcomed back sorry :(. I am not a big fan of the awesome Succubus being monogamous. Having said that I don't want to see her have a new lover every week either. Things for me worked so much better when Bo wasn't constrained by all the problems that arise from being in a committed relationship. In season 1 the one true commitment she made was to Kenzi, of course it was a friendship type of thing and not a romantic one. @SuzyM hello nice to talk to you. I will say that I think that you are going to get your wish. I think that they are going to make an effort to get back to season 1. As far as whom Bo with be with this up coming season 4 is really going to be interesting. I myself think that it can go several different ways.
Pandra Selivanov
272. Zanza
@DarthFaeder, the creator of the show was Michelle Lovretta, and it has always seemed to me that she had some pretty big ideas and a clear vision of where she wanted the show to go. There were some cryptic references to prophecy, Bo and Dyson were kept apart but you could see the bond forming, and Kenzi and Bo and Dyson formed a family. Bo and Kenzi had their detective agency, which I loved, and Dyson and Kenzi had some truly awesome interactions. Then Lovretta went away, Emily Andras took over, and she immediately started pandering to Doccubus. Oh, to have Lovretta back! Or get rid of EA and get somebody who doesn't want to twit back and forth with Doccubus and do whatever they say.
TheGardner
273. whiskeywhite
Wow! I turn my back for little more than a day and what do I find? More fabulous discussion! I like that this is a place where we de facto discuss our personal philosophies of love and relationships.

Fabulous analysis of Dyson in #252, Kiersten. The only tiny nit I would pick is that I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Dyson had sex when he went out on the town with Tamsin. Surely both he and Tamsin would be aware of the effect on their partnership if they had sex with each other (not to mention the Light/Dark problem). (I know you didn't suggest that, Kiersten). Maybe with one of the "hot" women she promised him at her chosen bar. Maybe, but why?

I most heartily agree that we should not operate with double standards for women and men. But it is also a very old stereotype that men are driven by sex far more than women (except Bo). Why would Dyson take up with a stranger (presumably) in a bar right after having the "what happened with us can't happen again" speech from Bo? Rebound sex, as recommended to Bo by Kenzi? Sounds kind of childish (to me). The revelation from the therapist encounter that he needs to stop ignoring his wolf? "I don't want to think about Bo" sex? Fine, go for it wolfie, I'm totally OK with "sex for fun". But your love of Bo is still going to be there in the morning. Why can't we just let him have a bit of a sex vacation for a while? (And no, he doesn't have to be a monk.)

On the subject of season 4, KC Collins said at DragonCon (or in Toronto, I forget) that his scheduling problems with his other TV show have been largely sorted out and that there will be "more Hale" in season 4. Yay! But I'm not sure how he would return to be Dyson's partner since he supposedly won the lottery. Bad investment decisions leading to a renewed need for a job? He also intimated that Hale and Kenzi might not get together until season 5 (but that could have been a distraction technique).
TheGardner
274. TheGardner
@whiskeywhite - OK so a "fully formed" relationship would be, IMO anyway, two people wholy committed and completely in love. Since Dyson cannot be in love with anyone besides Bo, this would exclude Ciara and anyone else he might form an attatchment to.

@DarthFaeder - Welcome to the thread. I had to laugh at your "having intelligent non-shipper type conversations about Lost Girl" comment. I'm sorry, but this entire thread is one big bowl of Dyson-the-Great Cornflakes. Sadly that used to be true, but now, not somuch.

Since it is no longer possible for me to have an opinion about Dyson without being accused of promoting some subversive Lauren agenda I shall take my leave of you. Only seeking return when this becomes fun again!

Exunt TheGardner!
TheGardner
275. Char
TheGardner---Sorry to see you go. But I have never proclaimed Dyson as great. Ok Maybe!!! I had to laugh at your comment with Dyson the Great Cornflakes. :) Live Long and Prosper!!!!
TheGardner
276. Char
To All:

I am a fan of the genres, science fiction and fantasy. I like Lost Girl. How much? This is the first show that I have ever commented on per the medium of social media, for example this site and IMDB. I read on other different sites and for all but this one, they are all Lauren amazing. So yes, while this site is Dyson and Team Badass, it is not Dyson can never do any wrong. This site is truly fun and I can explore my feelings of lost, relationships, Fae, mythology, and so forth. @Kiersten---Thanks!!!
Suzanne Metaxas
277. SuzyM
@Gardner I totally disagree with your statement
Since it is no longer possible for me to have an opinion about Dyson without being accused of promoting some subversive Lauren agenda I shall take my leave of you.
You are entitled to your opinions and everyone here respected your opinions. What some people took umbrage to was your attacks. Attacks and opinions are two different things. At least they are in my book. @Kiersten has made sure that no matter who you ship you have a safe place to post and discuss and for that I say THANK YOU! Until I found this blog I had no where I could post without being attacked, and attacked viciously.

I am a total Dyson fan and make no apologies for it. I will always root for Dyson and Bo getting back together because I see in them agape love not only Eros as @Zanza pointed out. Thank you Zanza for putting into words what I feel :)

So goodbye @Gardner if you return I hope it is with less venom and more discussion.
D K
278. DarthFaeder
@theGarderner ummm well thanks but I think I'll take my chances here. Besides there is no other forum that is actively still talking LG. I am fully aware that most people here are Dybo fans and that's okay. I will just keep commenting on general topics concerning LG not specific ship talk. It's sounds like from what I gather that no one here particularily cares who ships who.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
279. Kiersten
@DarthFaeder - You are correct. At H&H we officially don't care who ships whom so long as all commenters are respectful of one another and do not engage in personal attacks but rather keep the discussion focused on the show and its characters and relatable information to both. That doesnt mean others won't object to your expressed opinion or preference, merely that such objection will (ideally) be confined to that opinion and not extend to your person. Of course, we can't catch everything and sometimes the community needs to be reminded of our ethos and the discussion needs to be reset, but in general this is a safe place for discussing Lost Girl regardless of your "'ship".
Pandra Selivanov
280. Zanza
I will always root for Dyson and Bo getting back together because I see in them agape love not only Eros as @Zanza pointed out. Thank you Zanza for putting into words what I feel :)
You're welcome, SuzyM!
You are entitled to your opinions and everyone here respected your opinions. What some people took umbrage to was your attacks. Attacks and opinions are two different things. At least they are in my book. @Kiersten has made sure that no matter who you ship you have a safe place to post and discuss and for that I say THANK YOU! Until I found this blog I had no where I could post without being attacked, and attacked viciously. So goodbye @Gardner if you return I hope it is with less venom and more discussion.
I second this. Return when you're able, Gardner.
Katherine Bloom
281. lsbloom
I think it is hard to separate people not agreeing with an opinion from not validating your ability to have one.

I for one have had lots of bad experiences in this fandom being called b&#@, blind, biased, homophobic, heteronormative, crazy, etc, and I know I'm not alone. I appreciate the lengths to which Kiersten and H&H go to keep this site open to all people and ships.

I like Dyson, I like Kenzi, I like Hale, I like Trick, and I like Bo. I shouldn't have to apologize for those affinities. So, thank you, H&H for giving us this space and Kiersten thank you for your delightful posts, your fair moderation, and your standards for logic and support.
TheGardner
282. Char
@whiskeywhite---I am glad to hear that there will be more Hale screen time. But what is Hale going to do? Partner up with Dyson. And will he have to own Kenzi since she is human? Will Kenzi want to be owned by Hale? It's very romantic, a Siren and Kenzi. But I don't know how Fae and humans love relationship will work. Maybe Bo, (the chosen one) will change the rules and there will be no more Light and Dark.

@suzyM--I can definitely see Dyson and Bo as endgame. But I want Dyson and Bo to have fun together and seperately. I don't mind if endgame is in 100 years though.

@DarthFaeder--Tamsin and Kenzi dynamic will be pretty interesting Maybe Kenzi will become friends with Tamsin and that makes Bo a little jealous. That woukd be fascinating to watch.
Carmen Pinzon
283. bungluna
I would like to see Hale take over as Ash again, but this time using his own rules.

As y'all may be aware, I dislike Bo as she's presently written. I love Dyson and think he deserves better. To this end, I wish Bo could go her separate way, romantically speaking, for a while and date different people and mature a bit before she goes back to the D-man, who of course is the ideal end-game partner for her, with no bias whatsoever.
TheGardner
284. whiskeywhite
It may be too late to say this, but I will miss you @TheGardner and I'm sad to see you go. You're outspoken, opinionated, lively, with a strong analysis. Great stuff for an energetic and interesting discussion. Come back if or when you can.

Not to say that I don't love the rest of y'all. :-)

I think that @TheGardner was sometimes unfairly labelled as some sort of Doccubus-bot which I really don't believe she is. @lsbloom is completely right in saying that "It is hard to separate people not agreeing with an opinion from not validating your ability to have one." It isn't easy to separate vigorous difference of opinion from personal attack. There's no simple recipe, but I think we need to avoid arguments along the lines of "you're just parroting the Doccubus line" (not quoting anyone). Especially when we're writing, and we can't see facial expressions or hear tone of voice, which can often add nuance to what we say, we have to be extra careful to be thoughtful and respectful of others' feelings.

Steppin' down off soapbox. (I know I sound preachy, but I really believe this stuff and try to practice it. If I slip, please call me on it).
TheGardner
285. Char
@whiskeywhite---But that is what Doccubus are saying about Bo and Lauren. Check out the sites. I have never seen on any Doocubus loving site that yes Lauren is great but she does have issues. It is always, she had no choice or somewhere along that line. That's my problem.
D K
286. DarthFaeder
@Char I think Kenzi and Tamsin becoming best buds would be pretty great. Those two have the best one liners on the show, and the snarkfest that they both love to throw around would be epic. As far as Bo being jealous I don't know? Tamsin seems to be pretty enthralled with Bo. I get the feeling that Bo will be the one that Tamsin zeros in on not Kenzi. The possibility that Tamsin may move into Bo's and Kenzi's pad for awhile also intrigues me. I don't know that that is going to happen, but considering that Tamsin's truck is pretty much totalled Tamsin is now homeless. The LG writers are also being very coy about that very question. I have seen the Valkubus crowd ask the writers if Tamsin will wind up living with Bo and Kenzi. I have to chuckle a bit at the thought of Tamsin moving in with Bo and Kenzi even if its temporary. I can just imagine the fury that will cause amoungst the Doccubus faithful. It's pretty funny if you think about it. Tamsin just shows up and one season later she's already moving in. Of course like I said its all still speculation but isn't that fun? I can't tell you just how much fun it is to throw out a bunch of crazy hunches, and see people run with them. Do you have any crazy hunches you'd like to throw around Char? @Bungluna I too would love to see Hale return as the Ash. I think he could do some great things, but it sounds like its not really his cup of tea.
Linda Losik
287. LindaL
Some quick thoughts before I run away to work: TPTB have to do something to solidify the rest of their base. Team Doccubus is not the only base; just the one that they pandered to last season. The Bo and Lauren story line has run its course even though there are others who will disagree (@The Gardner sorry to see you go) and it really is time to move on to something/someone else. And considering what Syfy is doing with Defiance, I am not really that worried about the ratings. There is a show with so much potential that is just being blown away….I have wondered if the writers for Lost Girl and Defiance are not related.

I like the fact that they are keeping a tight lid on everything; this does give me hope that we might see more Team BadAss. Of course, Vex and Bruce must be in the mix somewhere!

I have longed wished for a font that is just dedicated to being sarcastic. This, by the bye, is a service that I do offer for free, just not in writing!
@DarthFaeder: I agree that the Doccubus will go up in flames, and I will be laughing. I find that this is the only site that I post to anymore because I am not considered (at best) homophobic just because I think that Lauren is a passive-aggressive among other things. I am NOT offended when someone calls me a bitch because I know that it is an acronym…it stands for Beautiful Intelligent Talented Complex Hellion! I always say thank you when someone does call me that; it is nice to be recognized for one’s accomplishments.
Pandra Selivanov
289. Zanza
I think that @TheGardner was sometimes unfairly labelled as some sort of Doccubus-bot which I really don't believe she is. @lsbloom is completely right in saying that "It is hard to separate people not agreeing with an opinion from not validating your ability to have one." It isn't easy to separate vigorous difference of opinion from personal attack. There's no simple recipe, but I think we need to avoid arguments along the lines of "you're just parroting the Doccubus line" (not quoting anyone).
I think the problem comes up with blatant double standards. As in, "Lauren was so great when she saved Bo!" and "Dyson was such a jerk when he saved Bo." "Lauren was so supportive when she gave Bo advice." "Dyson was cock-blocking Bo when he gave her advice." Not that it was ever quite that spelled out, but I think it was obvious enough that I don't feel the Doccubus label was misapplied.


Those of us who love Dyson have been pretty fair about him. We know he can be a huge jerk, and a royal pain, and the brooding gets old, and we say all this. We've also had some good things to say about Lauren. I quite liked Lauren, or whatever her name is, until the last retcon when I said enough was enough. So when you have a balanced approach on one side, and a "Lauren is good when she does thus-and-so and Dyson is bad when he does the exact same thing" on the other side, it does seem as if the person is adoring Lauren and beating up Dyson. And I think that sort of thing just rubs people the wrong way, especially people who are trying to be fair about both sides.
D K
290. DarthFaeder
@LindaL hello I was curious what you meant by what SyFy is doing with Defiance? Whose ratings are you not worried about LG's ratings or defiance's? When you said that show has so much potential that is just being blown away, did you mean LG or Defiance? I actually liked Defiance, but I love LG. Sorry to hear that people were calling you a bitch just because you didn't love Lauren. I think that is horrible and the best thing to do is just move on to another more friendly LG website. You are not going to change their opinion of you, and who in the world wants to continually be harrassed? Might I suggest the Syfy forum? I post there as well during the LG season, and people are for the most part pretty tolerant there. The problem is that as soon as the LG season is done everyone stops posting there. As far as seeing Team Badass I think that we'll always see team Badass it's a very important part of the show. Now as far as Team badass in the bedroom goes I don't know? I am certainly just fine with that I just don't want Bo to be exclusively with just Dyson or Lauren for that matter.
Carmen Pinzon
291. bungluna
I can't help myself; I keep having weird thougths about LG.

I wish Hale and Vex be appointed by the Elders to negociate a separate peace.

The Morrigan, now stripped of her posessions for instigating hostilities, is homeless and broke and moves in with Kenzie and Tamsin at Hilton Hovel. They go out clubbing together to drown their sorrows.

Bo's off in vaporland with her dad, trying to learn to be a good soccugod. She can observe all her pals on a special vapor pool. Dad's promised that, if she's good, he'll lift her vaporing and she'll be allowed to go out on weekends. Dad does provide a balanced diet of Light and Dark hotties for her epicurian pleasure.

Bo's mom is hunting Tric in Scotland to have a much delayed family reunion. Stella tries to take the place of the stepmom, but Aeoif (?) will have non of that. Tric is finally forced to sit down and TALK.

Dyson is appointed head of security for the mediation talks and dates all the water nimphs available. He thinks of Bo all the time but has been assured that she's ok. Not being a cockblocker, he lets her find her own way back to him.

Bruce and Massimo come to blows over Kenzie, but it's Hale who walks out with her in the end, ha!
Nadine Robb
292. cmm
@LindaL Did you manage to make it to the seasons finale of Defiance? I know I missed one episode and I never watched it again. I found it started out really strong and I watched it religiously. But then they started to have all these stupid filler episodes and it got boring.

As for the Bo Lauren story, yes it's run it course. But, do the tptb know that? I have this nasty feeling that it will start with them trying to find Bo (that's a given), but then it will continue with Bo going after Lauren. Then the story will go on from there. I don't mean to sound negative, but given their track record I do not trust them one bit.
Linda Losik
293. LindaL
@DarthFaeder: thank you for your kind words and I do also post on the SyFy forums, just under another user name. Defiance ratings were not stellar, in fact many were surprised that it was renewed because the levels for the target audience was lower than either Eureka or Sanctuary both of which they cancelled….yes, I am still miffed at losing these shows. SyFy does not pay for the production costs or much else with Lost Girl. All of this is absorbed by the parent company and Showcase in Canada. Both Lost Girl and Defiance have games associated with them and it is my understanding that both are doing well. Another indicating factor is the SyFy forum itself. Lost Girl and Defiance are both easy to find and have many, many postings. My “issues” came with posting on showcase.ca as a supporter of Team BadAss. It was so bad that not only did I stop posting there but also ended up closing one email account because of the “nasties” I received. I did report it but nothing really happened.

I also love the triangle. BUT I still want Lauren gone for a while. I really think that she will make an excellent villain and there is precedent for this in many types of literature (not just comic books!). I am not really sure if Tasim should be her next lover or just a really good friend on the level of the rest of the team. Or we can have some one new, preferably with a spine and must have an ability to communicate as well as to be part of team. That would be twofold: inject new blood (again) and seriously annoy the Doccubus.

My real hope for season 4 is that the pandering STOPS! Also we go back to the high level of writing that we had in season 1 and some in season 2….if I get the blue-ray, I assure you that I will not be watching the first few episodes that was pure pandering to the GLTS community.
Linda Losik
294. LindaL
@cmm: Yes I did make to the end of Defiance; it was a bit of work but the last few episodes were fairly good. Not terrific but good solid writing. We can only hope on the continued improvement of Defiance.
Annie Moore
295. drusilla_doll
@TheGardener, although I have often disagreed with your views on the show, I have always found your comments well articulated, funny and engaging. I hope you return when the show gives us more to discuss and debate over.

@bungluna, your weird thoughts are hilarious and would be fun to see play out.

@DarthFaeder, we haven't really explored Bo being jealous over someone. It might be interesting to watch. However, I think that's unlikely to happen in the near future.

I know some people have seen Bo's relationship adventures as being spotty at best in terms of mature development, but isn't that part of the point? She wasn't even able to have sex with someone without killing them until Dyson helped her get past that in season one. He was also her first infatuation/love and I actually enjoyed seeing her fumble through all of that - her first rejection and the angst following it and so on. Despite her age, she really is an unruly fae teen with too many powers and not enough experience to know how to handle things yet. We're seeing her navigate everything from her first romantic relationships, to finding out her true origins and nature, whilst trying to straddle two very different and (in some ways) opposing worlds.

Since she's only just passed the fae puberty test, I think it's okay that she's still exhibiting some immature behaviours from time to time. After all, the show is basically about her finding her way and 'growing up'.

@LindaL I watched Defiance to the end of the season. I agree that in the middle there were a few too many filler eps, but I can assure you that some very interesting plot and character threads are introduced in the final few eps which will have me returning for next season. The doctor, for example, finally became something very intriguing (her past is especially coming back to haunt her). The conspiracy with former mayor Nicki got fleshed out. And Irissa's torture as a child and her emerging abilities are now intersecting with that plot. The Tarrs and their ambitions became realised in ways which have me wondering (and oddly caring) what will happen to them next season. So, for me, the show ended on a high note.
Annie Moore
296. drusilla_doll
Oops sorry I meant @cmm with that last part of my comment. :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
297. Kiersten
Bungluna you get an A++ in Speculation 101!!!

The Lost Girl game. Dear Lawd, what a train wreck. I'm not a gamer and for the sake of the show, I'm glad to hear the game is doing well with those who are, but holy hell are the graphics bad in that game. Whenever I catch an image or a sequence, I'm embarrassed for the cast member being depicted. They deserve so much better than that.

I almost didn't watch Defiance because of the huge push that was about it's cross-promotion with the game. I'm all for multi-platform experiences, but don't make me have to buy a set up to play a game to get the whole back story and/or additional information about the narrative and characters. That's what your show web site is for.

For example, Banshee is a show that does phenomenal cross-platform work with its web presence most effectively by featuring a series of short 2 minute back story vingettes with its cast on the site during the season and including it on the season's DVDs. Ditto Nashville that has these wonderful "Behind the Music" shorts on its web page featuring the actual songwriters and some of the cast singing the songs from the episodes along with discussion of how the song came to be and even with the showrunner chiming in with why she chose it for the episodes. Great cross-platform utilization.

Gaming, of course, ties in much more organically to a show like Defiance than say Nashville, and I can see why Lost Girl went that route. But the Funimation's DVD/BR production on seasons 1 and 2 in the U.S. was so poor (Why did use them again for S3? WHY?!), you'd think they'd really work to hit a higher bar with the game. But no.

As I said, I nearly didn't watch Defiance because of the heavy cross-platform push right from the start, but I like so many of the people in the cast (Tony Curran, Jamie Murry, Grant Bowler, Julie Benz, Fionnula bloody Flanagan, and eventually Rob Archer LG's Bruce]) that I watched & hung in w/it for about six episodes. No joy. I think so much was invested in the make up and sets and world-building that they forgot to make the characters and narrative compelling. Plus, I could not deal with the white make up and wigs anymore and I've had about enough Romeo/Juliet teen angst to last a lifetime at this point and the heavy focus on that storyline became unbearable.

So I'm glad it got renewed for the sake of the people making it who I continue to like a great deal. But with Alphas (another show I watched occassionally for the people but never really engaged with), Eureka, and now Warehouse 13, all much less expensive shows, now axed and Defiance pressing on, I've lost total faith in TPTB at Syfy to make any sense in their decisions...ever. (I never got into Sanctuary. Amanda Tapping's English accent grated horribly on my ear, which is weird because she's English born, and I got pulled right out of everything every time she spoke.)
Pandra Selivanov
298. Zanza
Okay, I have to say it-I LOVE Defiance! I love Nolan and Irisa, I can't wait for the next season. I hope it goes for years and years. :D
Annie Moore
299. drusilla_doll
@kiersten Just so you know the romance between the teens is resolved and downplayed pretty quickly. There is no prolonged conflict over whether they should be allowed to be together etc. Much to my relief. I tend to hate when a show includes teens/children simply to have angsty emo conflict.While Irissa acts out, and questions her bond with Nolan who's not of her species and can't always guide her, I feel that the audience is still shown (rather than told) how much they care for each other in a way which reflects a father/daughter relationship - however unconventional. I'm weird in that I love the white aliens the most. Although the doctor is now fast becoming a favorite since her motives and less than savory past have been elaborated on.

Is Rob Archer playing the Irathient leader? If so, he's great on the show. I can't wait to see what happens with his character.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
300. Kiersten
Rob Archer plays BioMan on Defiance. He's been filming with Tony Curran this week, actually. Marathon days from the sound of it.

One of the things I did like about Defiance was the Irrissa/Nolan relationship. I am a bad story whore, so both of their stories were ones that interested me...just not enough. And I didn't care for Irissa fast enough to stay with it just for that.

FTR I love the white alien characters, i.e. Curran and Murray, I just could bear to look at them anymore. Hurt my eyes.
Nadine Robb
301. cmm
@drusilla_doll So would you say that in watching the last 3 episodes of Defiance, that I would be ok?
Annie Moore
302. drusilla_doll
@cmm let me double check when the plot starts heating up and get back to you.

@Kiersten did you enjoy the episode where Irissa started having visions and Nolan sat with her at the end while she slept restlessly? For me, that's when I realised the show was succeeding in showing not telling how close they were, even though they clashed a lot.
Linda Losik
303. LindaL
Stahma is a deliciously wickedly wonderful character that changes from good to bad then to good. This is my hope for Lauren to move from the state of doormat/whiner/deceiver to a deliciously wicked character that actually knows what she wants and is willing to work for it. After all, Lauren is a doctor; she must have wanted that badly so she was willing to work for it. Time for Lauren to move onto the next level for her.

Yes, the last three were good, however, if you can, download some of the earlier ones and make great use of the fast forward button. It really does help thru the filler episodes…..:-)
Annie Moore
304. drusilla_doll
@cmm Looking at an episode guide, I think you could watch the last four? That's when things really start to thread together. Probably the only part of the puzzle you are missing is that in ep 9 (which is a good stand alone episode about a returned astronaut who turns out to be not what he seems) we discover that:


SPOILERS



SPOILERS


Dr Yewll reluctantly reveals that the Votans, before their arrival on Earth, had begun a spy and assassin program, kidnapping humans who had access to persons in positions of authority, extracting their memories and implanting them into Indogene sleeper cells. The sleeper agents don't know they aren't human until they are 'activated' to carry out their task. Yewll was a participant in working on the project.

This is an impt story thread which helps deepen Yewll's role in the series and presents an interesting conflict moving forward. Especially since Earth Republic seems to be a bunch of bullies who want control of the town for their own agenda.
TheGardner
306. Char
@DarthFaeder---I could see Tamsin living with Bo and Kenzi. But it would get pretty crowded in the HH. I would hope that Bo and Kenzi are off running PI, they come home, and the HH has drywall. That would be awesome. I would kiss Tamsin feet.

@bungluna---Hahaha. ROTF. It's too much. The Morrigan is homeless. EPIC LG!! But where is Lauren?

@cmm---I can see Bo running after Lauren. And trying to help her out Lauren has been beaten up by the Fae. Bo does still love Lauren. And Bo has a sense of obligation to help Lauren out. I just hope that when Bo finds Lauren, Lauren has an amazing Fae girlfriend. Like idk, another succubus.

I like Defiance. Not as much as Eureka, but better than Warehouse 13. Here's the biggest 2 things, I hate about Warehouse 13, 1, Friday the 13, the tv show did it better and 2, all the gay characters were only in name, never fleshed out. Thank you Lost Girl for progressing sexuality on syfy.
TheGardner
307. Char
What I will give a shout out to (too) is how accommodating all the cast, writers and producers are to Hale because KC has a another tv show. That's nice.

I would love to see Lauren as the antihero. Kinda like Riddick. Bad people who blur the line between good and bad. You know they are bad but they look good doing it. I could see Lauren working with the Dark Fae and not the Light anymore. Amazing.
Carmen Pinzon
308. bungluna
@Char - re: Lauren - far, far away! (ehem)

Let's see. Lauren uses her super-ninja-geek-WonderLauren skills to abscond with the Fae DNA sample crazy scientist guy had collected, plus all his monay, of course.

She teams up with an EVIL anti-fae gov. agency to wipe those nasty Fae from the face of the Earth, except she thinks she's curing the common cold. When faced with proof positive that they are EVIL, she contacts Dyson and Bo to come help her destroy them in a convoluted plan that makes no sense but succeeds and that's how she gets back in good with the Fae.

She does acquire a human supermodel girlfriend btw.
D K
309. DarthFaeder
@LindaL okay well thats nice to hear that you post at syfy too. I'd ask your username but I pretty sure that would be rude so I won't. I know the value of having different usernames in different websites. I had a pyscho A-hole follow me from one forum. Well not so much follow me I guess maybe stalk. I am not sure what the right word is? Anyways I made the mistake of using the same username in the two different websites and somethings I said at one site got posted at another, and well I was pretty pissed. I couldn't believe that there was some jerk out there that would troll around to all the LG websites and try and cause trouble. Needless to say I post at three different websites under three different usernames lesson learned. I also am careful not to overly support one ship over another. I have found that that cause problems too. I guess that I souldn't be surprised by how some people act. They sit behind an anonymous computer and they can say what ever they want. I have decided not to post anything at a website that doesn't have a moderator. At least with a moderator monitoring everything there is some sort of civility. @Bunluna now that would be scary and hilarious at the same time. The morrigan moving in with Bo, Kenzi, and Tamsin? You'd have three dominant females and one probably scared out of her mind human. I can't see the Morrigan getting along with anyone at the Hilton Havel, but wow wouldn't that be crazy good to watch @ Drusilla let's see Bo being jealous would be all kinds of awesome, and I hope that you are wrong about us not seeing it anytime soon. @Char LOL!!!!! seriously I don't think that I can envision Tamsin as the homemaker. Are you considered a homemaker if you know how to put up drywall? LOL!!!!! I guess in a sense you are the happy little homemaker by putting up drywall LOL!!!!! So do you envision Tamsin staying home all day to cook and clean too LOL?????? Just the very thought of that vision brings a smile to my face and a big huge chuckle. Lauren turning into a villian well I'd be down with that. You asked the question to Bungluna so where would Lauren be? That is a good question if she is no longer working for the light fae and turns into a bad girl where would she live? Well if the Morrigan, Tamsin, Bo, and Kenzi are at the Hilton Havel would there be room there? Can you imagine if the morrigan, Lauren, and Tamsin were all trying to climb into bed with the sexy succubus and the cat fights that would cause? Ohhhhhhh I am and I am totally digging that scene. Perhaps Kenzi could be the referee since she's not the slightest bit interested in having sex with Bo? Maybe they can have a Fae off between the Morrigan and Tamsin, and of course Lauren would have to battle the winner? Poor Lauren would never get any play LOL!!!!! I think that the doccubus faithfully would be nashing their teeth and screaming at the top of their lungs then huh?
TheGardner
310. Char
So.... There was a great episode with Lauren and Bo. Ya know the one with the basilisk. I mean, Lauren helped Bo and she used her medical knowledge.
Pandra Selivanov
311. Zanza
Char, that was a great Lauren and Bo episode, but it wasn't a "Lauren and Bo as a couple" episode. It was Lauren and Bo working together to get the basilisk venom. Loved the high five moment when Bo told Lauren she hadn't killed the guard, but there wasn't one moment while they were a couple that was half as nice as that. :(
Linda Losik
312. LindaL
@Char: yes, the foot soup episode was one of my favorites because it showed the team strengths. The scene with Kenzi and Dyson in the cemetery is so sweet, I just absolutely love it. Lauren was showing us her gifts and being a team player, not controlling, not manipulating, not lying or even being passive\aggressive, just being a part of the Team BadAss.

@Zanza: I quite agree with you…I liked this Lauren, not the Lauren after she and Bo became a couple. In fact, I am not sure that I like Lauren in any relationship because the way she treated Nadia was (to put it kindly) crappy.
Nadine Robb
313. cmm
@Char You are far too nice when it comes to Lauren lol! I'd have Bo not search for her and her with another girlfriend, not a succubus. I really have no use for a character. She could be a great villan but she's they have her always operating out of this gray area. Where she does things which are evil, but, always gets away with it.
TheGardner
314. stacymd2
Geez! 300+ comments. Let’s see if we can get this to 500 like the last time.

@DarthFaeder: Welcome! I’m joining the chorus of people who love your screen name.

@Kiersten: Love your post on 252. You always articulate best what I love about Dyson and Dyson/Bo.

@cmm: I don’t trust Lost Girls’ powers that be either. In Season 4, I expect another Lauren recon & whitewashed aggrandizement of her deeds.

@whiskeywhite: We all do make assumptions about D/B/L based on our preferences. Bo is Dyson’s great love, but he may not be hers. The writers could bring in a new character in S4 and have that person be Bo’s great love. We are also assuming that Lauren/Bo will be together for Lauren’s life span. The way L/B played out, Dyson may not have to wait 10-days, yet alone 100 years.

Bo is single now. B/D could get together by the end of S4. I have no faith in this happening. As I said above, I think EA will use the “wolves mate for life” thing as a carrot on a stick to keep B/D and Dyson fans watching. LG is not going to be on for 100 years. LG will be lucky to get a 6thseason. I’m not sure if I want to stick around until the final to see Bo and Dyson together again.

@LindaL: I miss Sanctuary too. At first Amanda Tapping’s accent did irritate me, but I eventually got over it. I don’t understand why SyFy canceled Warehouse 13 & Sanctuary.

@Char: Totally agree about Warehouse 13 not fleshing out their gay character, but most of the side characters are not really fleshed. I like how the show makes Jinks a normal member of the team. His story “issues” are not centered on his sexuality. The same way Leena & Mrs. Frederic’s story issues are not based on their race or Myka & Claudia’s about their sex or Pete’s about him being a d-bag.

@bungluna: I love all of your crazy scenarios. I love the idea of Tamsin moving with Bo & Kenzi. It would last about two episodes before Bo & Kenzi kick her out. I picture Tamsin being a bit of a slob, getting on B & K’s nerves. The one liners between Kenzi and Tamsin would be epic.

@bungluna: I would pay to see Kenzi, Tamsin & Evony go clubbing. O.M.G. We need to start a campaign to make this happen. Team Side Cop-Rigan!

@bungluna: Your 308 comment sounds exactly like something EA would do.

Here are a few of my crazy story ideas:

Stella moves into Trick’s lair. Bo & Kenzi are working on a MotW case and need knowledge from Trick-opedia. They go down stairs to find him and end up seeing Trick & Stella in a “compromising situation.” This forces Trick to buy a lock—and a door—for his inner sanctum. Stella is forced to buy a designer bathrobe.

Aife moves with B&K. Bo and Aife grow closer. Lauren and Aife swap cookie recipes. Kenzi is suspicious at first but Aife wins her over. Aife then does something crazy, because she is crazy, forcing Bo to have her imprisoned in the Ash compound. The new Ash tells Bo she is imprisoning Aife, but she really plans to execute Aife for her crimes in S1. Aife is secretly freed by Bo & Trick, but it comes at a price. Trick erases her memories so she never knows her identity. Trick gives Aife a new life with Luann.

Hale buys Taft’s lab & company. He hires Lauren as the new Super Genius Head Medical Scientist Doctor Officer. (That actually is her title as per her contract.) This will give Lauren a place & purpose outside of the Light Fae and Bo.

A backstory on the Evony, where we find out what she did to became The Morrigan. Her past comes back to haunt her. According to wiki the Dark Fae name their leaders after famous Fae warriors. Evony needs Bo’s help to hide her past involving a powerful Dark Fae warrior who wants her/his title back. We learn Evony and Vex were lovers.

Hale becomes the new chief of police. This way he is still working with Dyson and Tamsin. Hale could butt heads with Tamsin (who doesn’t respect his athor-a-tay!) as well as the new Ash and Morrigan. Hale uses Dyson & Tamsin to pursue cases the Ash/Morrigan don’t want pursued and/or Hale is not covering up Fae crimes like they want him to. The Ash/Morrigan work to “get rid” of Hale. Dyson, Tamsin & Val protect him.

Bo & Kenzi take a case from a new client who is a shifter wolf. Dyson recognizes her from his childhood in the UK. Dyson helps with the case and New Shifter Wolf (NSW for short) flirts with him. Dyson and NSW hook up for a few episodes. Both know that this is just a fun fling and are not expecting anything from each other. They have lots of happy, naked shower scenes, naked bedroom scenes, naked kitchen scenes, naked camping scenes; naked Dal scenes (just go with it). NSW’s pack calls her home to the UK. She leaves, but not before having have one last happy, naked sauna scene with Dyson. (stop judging me!)

Lauren/Karen bumps into her parents at the grocery store. Hijinks & lying ensue.

(Side Bar Question: If Lauren/Karen is a wanted international criminal, did Nadia know this? Didn’t Nadia mention knowing Lauren in college?)
TheGardner
315. stacymd2
I am breaking up my usual long Lost Girl comment. I have to step into the Defiance conversation for a minute. I tried to get into that show, but I couldn’t stick with it.

I couldn’t stand:

Datak, Stahma & their race’s culture. The Castithans are a Frankenstein like clone of other alien races in Sci-Fi programs/movies. The white hair and skin are not original. They look similar to Stargate Atlantis’s wraith.

I cannot stand the tired “chosen one” Sci-Fi cliché with Irisa. It is in every fantasy and Sci-Fi book, movie, show, etc.

Irisa “Little Wolf” Nyira and her race parrot another trope & stereotype, the “magic Indian” (or ethnic person, but usually it’s an African or Native American). The Irathients are not from Earth, but everything they do is like a bad Native American movie cliché.

Amanda/Nolan/Kenya is boring. Irisa/Tommy is boring. Christie/Alak is like eating glass.

The show over promotes the online game.
I watched for quite a few episodes, but stopped once Gale Harold left. There are a number of actors that I love on Defiance: Kirshner, Harold, Jamie Murray, Julie Benz (Darla!) and Greene. I might give it another try, but…I hope the episodes that I didn’t watch are better. Defiance has a lot of potential.

Speaking of Buffy the Vampire Slayer…I can’t believe Buffy ended 10 years ago. Man, I feel old.
TheGardner
316. Char
@Zanza--Lauren and Bo work together great a friends. Why are they pushing them to be together? Why can't their relationship be amazing friends who flirt together but know they won't mesh well in a romantic relationship.

@Bumgluna--Lauren can run but she can't hide. I mean, isn't Bo's daddy eyes everywhere? Can't Bo ask dad that she needs to find Lauren. I mean does Bo really need to do things the human way. Lauren should have a super hot girlfriend that treats Lauren as an equal. Bo an Lauren are over.

@DartFaeder--The only woman on that show who k ows how to cook is Lauren. And I don't see Lauren cooking for Bo, Kenzi and Tamsin. But I would love to see Tamsin HGTV the HH. Please LG, add some walls. But why was Tamsin drinking alcohol?

LindaL--That is the LG that I want. Season 1. Please no moreLost Girl: degrassi edition.

Cnn and stacymd2--Making Lauren the hero. Yuck! But come on, there has to be more to Lauren. Right...there is Karen.

Stacymd2---defiance is out. Haven is great. Season premiere September 13th 2013. And I am sure there will be a marathon of Jason Friday 13th.
Carmen Pinzon
317. bungluna
Y'all know what we need that we didn't get in S3? A bathroom, "toothpaste", "footlocker" scene! Dyson, Lauren and Vex were great, but think about how wonderful Evoni would be!
Annie Moore
318. drusilla_doll
I really enjoyed that episode where DL came along with Bo and helped with the mission using her own expertise. It saddens me that in later seasons she was stripped of her slightly awkward nerdy brilliance (see missing the six fingered mark on the corpse and being successfully intellectually wooed by Taft) and instead was pigeon-holed into being Bo's ineffectual, emotionally needy GF who was too insecure to articulate what she really needed/wanted from Bo. No amount of 'she did a tour in Afghanistan and was a wanted fugitive who changed her name' is gonna help the fact that she's a hanger-on character who's fast outstaying her welcome. At least Tamsin seems to be integrating better with other cast members. This is something which needs to be done with Karen/DL going forward.

Mind you, I have to admit I was a fan of the two season 3 scenes where Dyson and DL seemed to bond a little over their feelings about Bo.
TheGardner
319. whiskeywhite
Gale Harold was on Defiance?! Damn! I quit watching too soon (can't say why I quit. Just didn't grab me). Gotta find those episodes.

Speaking of old, I can't believe Queer as Folk ended 8 years ago. I've been watching reruns recently -- they dealt with some interesting issues. Last night Michael got into a 'Fathers' Rights' battle with lesbian couple Lindsay and Melanie over custody rights of one of their children, for whom he was the sperm donor.

That gives me an idea for LG that will stir up lots of fun. Bo and Lauren make up, then Bo discovers she's pregnant with Dyson's child. (See, I told you no good would come from lack of attention to contraception.)

I do like @stacymd2's idea of Dyson meeting and taking up with a woman wolf shifter. Not in the crazy category at all. I would love to see that. Talk about shared experiences. And she would presumably be cool fierce. I wonder if she would ask him "Why not one of us (wolf shifters) rather than one of them (succubi)" à la Spike Lee's Jungle Fever (in which black women bemoan black men choosing white women over black women). Jeez, that was 1991. I date myself again.

Laugh out loud award of the day, @Char's image of Tamsin at home drywalling HH. I would say LOL, but I'm too old. I'm not allowed.
TheGardner
320. Char
@whiskeywhite--- OMG. I love Queer as Folk. Loved Brian and his attitude towards sex. Most of the times. I did not like the way he treated Justin??. Take a note Bo. And No Lauren and Bo getting together. Can't take it. But i will if i have to. And no babies. I don't want to see anyone pregnant on Lost Girl just yet. Well maybe the Morrigan or Aife. Bo with a sibling.the things. That make you go Hmmmmm.

@stacymd2--I would love for Dyson to meet different women and have fun. Another shifter would be great. But how about a fox ala Grimm fox. That would be great. And cute.
D K
321. DarthFaeder
@Stacymd hello nice to meet you and thanks I do like my username. I have had several people say they liked it. I thought it was a fun name to use. Anyone who would like to use it at another LG site please feel free to do so, because it's not like I have a patent on the name. I don't use it any where else but here. You asked the question why is syfy cancelling all the great shows like Sanctuary and Warehouse 13. Well take a look at the shows that are replacing those shows. Most of the shows on tv as well as syfy are reality tv shows, at least the ones that are on primetime. Those reality shows I think are alot cheaper to produce than say Warehouse 13 or Sanctuary or shows like that. When it's all said and done it always comes down to money.
The only reason I think that they are still showing LG is because they don't have to pay the production costs. I hope that means that as long as LG is going strong in Canada the showcase will continue to renew it year after year, and of course syfy and those who watch the show benefit from that. Oh and good gracious how many places do you plan on having Dyson and the female wolf shifter have sex LOL!!! Dyson's wolf junk is gonna fall off LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!! @Char hmmm Tamsin turning Bo and Kenzi's place into something you'd see on the HGTV? I have to say that would be pretty cool but boring to watch.
I could just see her with her utility belt hammering nails into dry wall and painting. Ewww maybe installing a shower would be nice as well. We all know Bo enjoys the shower sex. @Bungluna hmmmm Evony asking Kenzi where the toothpaste is? I would think that Tamsin would be asking where the toothpaste is before Evony, but yeah that would be kinda cool for Kenzi to walk in and see Evony looking for the toothpaste.
TheGardner
322. whiskeywhite
Queer as Folk was a (w0nderful) 5-year long soap opera which dragged out the 'when' question. Not 'when will Brian and Justin first kiss or have sex?', that happened in the first episode. But 'when will Brian finally admit he loves Justin?'. We (if I may use the royal 'we') waited 5 years for that, and it happened in the last episode, although there was no promise of monogamy even then. Take note LG.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
323. Kiersten
I would HATE IT if LG followed that course of action. I want Bo and Dyson back together where they belong in any configuration that makes it happen and work. I *do not* want to be dragged along for one shining moment just as the show ends. I call bullshit on that and it's also a piss poor way to treat loyal fans
TheGardner
324. whiskeywhite
Kiersten, I'm with ya sister. Was referring more to the no monogamy arrangement (and getting them back together at all).
TheGardner
325. whiskeywhite
Over night I was thinking more about Queer as Folk. The difference between Bo and Dyson's relationship and Brian and Justin's is that Brian and Justin are lovers and live together (with a few blips) throughout the entire 5 years of the Queer as Folk series. They work through endless problems (the very young Justin maturing a lot in the process) and come to accept each other as they are. The long awaited admission by Brian that he loves Justin is a final maturing of that relationship and thus a fitting end to the series. Bo and Dyson of course have not had that chance.

Part of the Queer as Folk 'happy ending' is that Brian does not give up his opposition to monogamy, an arrangement which Justin accepts. This has led me to think more about the contrasts between Queer as Folk and LG, both of which challenge(d) sexual mores in their time.

LG portrays a world where sexual orientation is a non issue, even a non existent concept, while QAF constantly showed discrimination against LGBT people and their resistence to it. So QAF showed the problem and LG shows the solution (or part of it).

QAF was, I would argue, ultimately more challenging to mainstream heterosexual ideas of ideal relationships. Brian relentlessly and vocally rejects heterosexual ('het') ideals of marriage, monogamy, and the entire ideology of romantic love. His sex life consists of one-hour (or less :-) ) stands with purposely anonymous men, sometimes two or more in a night. He ridicules the lesbians who arrange their own non-legal marriage and then settle down to have children. He is disgusted by his gay male friends who (in his view) cave in to het lifestyles and go to "f*cking Canada" (hee) to get legally married.

LG, as I have repeatedly whined, is relentlessly pro-monogamy. Bo, as an emotional teenager, insists on monogamous relationships with her lovers, despite the threat to her health and life in Lauren's case, and the threat to his health in Dyson's. On top of that, the Fae world in general takes marriage uber seriously (1000 years without divorce). As for the other key characters, other than a little playing of the field by Hale and Dyson, presented as boys-will-be-boys, most of the main characters take relationships fairly seriously (e.g., Kenzi, and in fact both Dyson and Hale).

So no challenging of monogamy there. In fact, Bo's 'promiscuity' is explained away as due to physiology, not a lifestyle choice. So she doesn't represent a model for the majority.

QAF also challenged the entire ideology of romantic love. Brian adamantly refuses to recognize any connection between "love" and sex, argung that it legitimizes heterosexual monogamy which in turn is a bad model, in his view, for LGBT folks (he may even have pointed to male-dominance in het relationships, but I may be projecting that backwards :-) ). Despite developing deep, deep caring for Justin over the years, he refuses to characterize his emotions as "love".

LG, of course, sings the praises of romantic love, though it doesn't insist that sex always be connected to love, allowing "sex for fun". People may love whom they wish, no judgements, a fine idea and certainly challenging in the current political/cultural environment. (Of course, there was tons of sex for fun in QAF.)

The first limitation in QAF's challenge to heterosexual 'sex = love = monogamy' ideology was that it was confined to the LGBT community. Brian ultimately didn't care what hets did as long as they left the LGBT community alone and gay men didn't follow their example (he semi-jokingly implied that lesbians, as women, were genetically pre-disposed to "nesting").

Secondly, Brian and Justin were surrounded by friends, presented totally sympathetically, who heartily subscribed to het-style love and monogamous marriage (the focus on same-sex marriage was an early portrayal of that political demand, now coming to fruition). Even Justin, while he didn't insist on marriage, at times was a bit jealous of their friends who were married or in committed relationships. They in turn see Brian's behaviour as excessive if not emotionally unhealthy (in terms of physical health Brian is a rabid condom user). Brian's position against marriage and his friends' defence of it reflected the debate in the LGBT community at the time as to whether same-sex marriage was a caving in to heterosexual mores and a threat to aspirations of wider sexual freedom (we see the latter aspiration a bit in LG, although in a very limited and ultimately timid way in my view).

So was QAF, which first aired 13 years ago, more challenging and progressive on sexual freedom than LG? I'd be interested in others' views.
Suzanne Metaxas
326. SuzyM
I have never seen QAF and seeing what you wrote about it I don't think I would have enjoyed it. I believe in romantic love :) and believe that sex can be an extention of that romantic love as well as just pure lust. I also do not believe pure lust sex is satifying as sex that is an outgrowth of the Agape love between two people.
Pandra Selivanov
327. Zanza
I believe in romantic love :) and believe that sex can be an extention of that romantic love as well as just pure lust. I also do not believe pure lust sex is satifying as sex that is an outgrowth of the Agape love between two people.
Well said.
Carmen Pinzon
328. bungluna
@whiskeywhite - I never watched QAF either, but from your analisis I would say that LG started out being more progressive and then degenerated into the hot mess it is today.

- LG started out doing something revolutionary: getting the bedding over with without the will they/won't they that's so anoyingly prevalent in tv dogma nowadays.

- LG also had adult conversations (Dismembers) about the hardship of relationships and what each party expected / needed from them.

Then the current team took over and it all went out the window. I'm just shocked that no slut-shaming has taken place, since they have betrayed every other concept that the show started with.
TheGardner
329. Char
Queer as Folk was a great show but it was a show about men and relationships kinda like sex and the city. Lost Girl is different because it was supposed to be about a succubus who needs sex and wasnt shamed for it.
TheGardner
330. whiskeywhite
I know that my analysis of Queer as Folk makes it seem grim, but I'm only focusing on one aspect of it. In fact, overall it was love and romance, and more love and romance. In part for that reason, despite the fact that it was focused largely on gay men, it turned out to have a surprisingly large audience of straight women, as did the British series of the same name on which it was modelled. One of the concerns by some in the LGBT community at the time was that the show would start to be written more with this audience in mind. Hmmm. Where have we heard something like that? The QAF writers stuck to their guns and kept it focused on concerns of the LGBT community.

Another of the interesting contrasts is that the explict sex on QAF makes LG look like kindergarten fare. I wonder why, given that QAF started a good decade earlier. Perhaps LG is aiming at a wider, more mainstream audience? Can TV standards about sex actually have become more conservative since 2000-2005?
TheGardner
331. Char
Sorry but Haven Season 4 premiered last night. Love it.

Lost Girl has become less about freedom of sex and is now about same sex relationships. Kenzi and Bo, Bo and Lauren, Tamsin and Bo. And the men are on the sidelines waiting to hear from Kenzi, Bo, Lauren and Tamsin. I don't like this direction. And Lost Girl is not just about the LGBT community, it is about fantasy, mythology, science fiction???, and relationships. The only reference to LGBT is that Bo is bisexual and Lauren is a lesbian. If Lost Girl is suppose to be about LGBT, then there would be gay men also. And not just gay and bisexual women.
TheGardner
332. Char
I also want romantic love. That is the main reason why I watch Lost Girl. The romance between Dyson and Bo. The romance that started the show. It wasnt Lauren and Bo. It was a wolf standing in front of...:) Ceremony!

I want romance. I want my heart to swoon as it did in Season 1. My heart doesn't swoon for Lauren and Bo because I don't see romance. I see lust and lots of sex. It is a disservice to Lauren and Bo to keep them together because they are same sex. And that is the only reason.

And another thing, in Season 2, when Bo saves Lauren from dying with her resurrection power, that was a sign of her love for Lauren. But when Bo does it for Dyson, it is why did he bother to help Bo in the Dawning. However if Dyson had died, he would have been criticized for being too noble.
TheGardner
333. UberFaenatic
Hi there! I'm a newbie here so be kind. :)

Several moments I really loved came from "The Kenziscale".

The first is when Dyson is uber-freaked that he may have killed Kenzi. Lauren is trying to get him to calm down a bit as she tests the blood, only to find the blood is fae. Her expression when she realized how badly she fae-d up was just so sad to watch. Dyson's as well. I mean it's understandable that they would have questioned Bo's behavior after she went all Evander Holyfield in the love squid episode but still. To realize that you had unknowingly betrayed someone you loved? To let them down like that? That had to be a horrible realization for them both.

And then, seconds before that moment, I loved Dyson's relief that he had not killed Kenzi. His response was so visceral and unfettered by protocol.

I also, as a Tamsin faenatic, love that she set aside her Bo issues when she realized that fake Kenzi wasn't the real Kenzi. That she allowed herself to consider Bo might not be as she originally thought, a heartless evil Succubitch who goes around killing fae without any thought. I love that she was the one who came to Bo's rescue and that she actually started to really talk to Bo. Interesting line was when Tamsin and Bo were doing their walkabout in the woods and Tamsin is trying to tell her something but then says, "But you're not really listening." I've been wondering what she was trying to get Bo to hear.

I love when Bo is forced to tell what Kenzi really means to her and I love the honest, non-snarky response by Tamsin. She's touched by it genuinely and she sees that Bo is true and her heart and motivations are unselfish and pure. I think seeing this...seeing that Bo is a devoted, passionate being who will go to the ends of the earth to help Kenzi...even to the point of begging Tamsin to carry on should something happen...is what led her to keep the secret and lie to The Morrigan regarding Bo being ID'd as the one who attacked the dark fae and put him in a coma.

I've seen different interpretations of Bo's response to her first real chi-succukiss with Tamsin, where she said it felt different. My sense was that it felt different is because Tamsin is dying so the energy is different. I figured that was also why she couldn't pass the guard's chi into her in "Those Who Wander"...because her body was already starting to fail.

Speaking of Tamsin, in "ConFaegion", she and Bo write down their deepest secrets, in poetic verse no less, and then eat the papers like tweens. So, I'd like to know what they wrote. If they didn't fully know who and what they were. Tamsin was sort of unsure that she was Valkyrie, but she seemed to recall things like, she sometimes had to make people she liked go away. TweenBo liked her poem but thought it was sad.

At the end of the episode, it was hinted that, while most of the experience was a blur, they retained at least some sort of memories. Could they remember at some point in the future? Who knows. But I wanna know! :)

And while I know chemistry is in the eye of the beholder, I have to say that I do see chemistry between her and Bo. Several instances that the writers have thrown in were a bit contrived but they put them there for a reason, such as the kiss in Brazenwood, where they used Stella/Trick's attraction to push Tamsin and Bo along since they wouldn't have gotten there on their own that quickly. Also in "Fae-ge Against The Machine"...who did Tamsin get "all sparkly" for in the first place? Bo asked, Tamsin didn't answer. To my knowledge, she didn't know about the invitation or Brazenwood, only that she was taking Bo out for drinks and straight talk about the Dawning. But she dolled up noticeably.

Why did she stay with Bo during that day? Her response that she'd not hear the end of it if something happened to everyone's favorite succubus came across to me as a dodge...so she really didn't answer that question either.

I also find it interesting that both Bo and Tamsin talked about the kiss to others, Bo with Kenzi...although she never went into detail as to how she felt about it... and Tamsin with Lauren.

That interaction was telling for me. She knows Dyson loves Bo and she knows Lauren loves Bo too but she never treats Dyson like competition, only Lauren. And while I know she was in the early stages of self-destructing because of Acacia and the realization she would truly have to deliver Bo, her back-and-forth with Lauren was brutal. Why did she tell her about the kiss? She didn't have to in order to get a hair sample. It was an intentional sabotage of Bo and Lauren's relationship. But why would she do that? It felt to me like she was in a place where if she couldn't have Bo then no one could.

Also, more on Tamsin (she's replaced Hale as my fave), I've seen some suggest that she's Bo's twin or whatever. But how would that even be possible? Remember this line, "You're not like anyone I've ever met...in any of my many lifetimes." Bo is a babyfae, not centuries old like Tamsin. So how on earth could anyone make them twins? And if they're in any way related, that kind of makes the interactions the writers injected...the subtext...kind of icky. lol

Besides, she sees the Wanderer and acknowledges him as Bo's father specifically. Why say that to Dyson? If that's her father too, she could have used any other phrasing to make the point, like she could have said that he was "trouble" or something else. But by labeling him as Bo's father and not "my father" or just not answering the question, it would seem that while she obviously knows who he is, he is not her father.

Besides that, the conversations with Acacia suggest that she sees him as a dangerous client of sorts who she does mercenary work for, not as her scary father who she's rebelling against. So unless people are suggesting Aife is her mother...I just don't see how there's any possible familial connection. Whatevs. We'll find out soon, right?

Last question. The custodian in the temple said that the temple was vindictive and that if you cheat it will come after you or that you'd bear the consequences. Do you all think that will come up again or was that just the custodian blowing smoke because he didn't want to be left alone? Oh and if he'd been there for as long as he says, why didn't Dyson recognize him? (just wondering aloud).

Bo is a truly fascinating character. I've shipped her with Dyson, Lauren and now Tamsin. I've never come across a TV characters with so many OTPs! :)
Pandra Selivanov
334. Zanza
Welcome, UberFaenatic! Hope you like this forum-it's a good safe place with a lot of nice people. I see tons of chemistry between Tamsin and Bo, but it seems to me to be of the "bromance" kind, if I may be allowed to use such an expression about two women. There just doesn't seem to be anything romantic between them, and I love it. I love that Kenzi has no feelings at all in that way for Bo, for all that she loves her dearly, and I'd like to see Tamsin be the same way. Loving Bo, but never "in love" with Bo. And please, no sex.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
335. Kiersten
Hi UberFaenatic! Welcome. Thanks for sharing your thoughts about Bo and Tamsin.

I thought The Kenzi Factor was a great episode with lots of key emotional moments for everyone. I especially like that moment to the end when the Happy Sunshine Gang in reunited. All the nonverbal communication going on between Bo and Dyson and Kenzi and then Tamsin looking on with such longing...it's clear she longs to be a part of their bonded unit and with her genuine affection for both Dyson and Bo, she fits with their faemily unit in a way Doctor Lauren has never achieved.
D K
336. DarthFaeder
Hello Uberfaenatic and welcome nice to see you here. I too like Tamsin but I am a prove it to me first type person. You have alot of questions and are an obvious Valkubus fan. Most people here like Tamsin but are not really sold on her being a potential romantic partner for Bo. I suppose time will tell? I know I don't know if they will be only friends or something more? As far as the twin sister thing goes I don't believe that they are sisters either. I think that those rumors are being started by doccubus fans because they see Tamsin as a threat to doccubus so I wouldn't worry. I am not sure if you have seen Anna Silk say that Valkubus is a valid team, but if you go to youtube on type in the Fanexpo Canada 2013 you will see her make that statement. I am not sure if that will help your fears or not but you should give it a try. I'd be more worried as to whether Tamsin will be a regular on the show from now on or will she not make it past season 4? I can certainly live with her and Bo just being friends as long as she is a main stay on the show from now on. Tamsin seems to have collected some fans so it will be interesting to see if she makes it past season 4. I myself can't wait to see the interactions between Tamsin and Kenzi. The thought of all those cool one liners and the snarkfest that could ensue is gonna be awesome. As far as why Tamsin told Lauren about the kiss in Brazenwood I think she was trying to sabotage Bo and Lauren's relationship. The question is did she do it because she was trying to get rid of a romantic rival, or did she do it to try and weaken Bo emotionally? It would be easier to take her to the wanderer if she has been weakened on an emotional level I suppose? As far as the Temple getting it's revenge? I don't know but they could certainly use it later on down the road. Personally if the temple was going to exact revenge I would think that it would have done it sometime in season 3, or at least in the first several episodes of season 4. I do feel that season 4 is definately going to be an extention of season 3 so that is a possibility. @ Kiersten I agree Tamsin is a good addition to the happy sunshine gang. @ Zanza haha you crack me up when you said no sex lololol!! the whole show is predicated on a very horny Succubus who not only wants sex but has to have it to heal and maybe survive. If Doccubus gets back together I am sorry to say that the no Dyson 4 healing sex still applies. Bo can't sustain herself on Lauren so someone is going to have to step up and take one for the team LOL!!!! If Tamsin has feelings for Bo I can't possibly think of a better healing sex buddy than her?
Mary Beth House
337. UberFaenatic
Thank you all for the kind welcome! :)

I'm a longtime Lost Girl fan but just now decided to wade into online fandom waters. I checked out a few sites...and frankly some folks scare me. lol I mean I like Lauren...but dude. She's not the center of the universe.

I do like Valkubus. I admit it for sure. I think it would be the next logical relationship for Bo. I like the idea of a redemption story. I like that it's not just based on sexual tension, there's a lot of emotion there. The tub scene was so deliciously angsty. Plus, I like the fact that they started as foes. The whole thing is rich with drama. I'll have to look up the Anna Silk video...I haven't heard that before so that's nice. And I'd tend to agree that the bulk of the push for Tamsin and Bo to be related seem to be coming from those who want Tamsin out of the way as a potential rival.

And the reality is, if she's dead set on having a monogamous relationship, she can never end up solely with Lauren. Seeing them together pointed out what I feel are faetal flaws in the relationship.

I loved her with Dyson...and he was her first real love. But I don't know if he's her forever love like she is to him. I also do not understand the whole Temple thing. He's the key so she has to kill him to evolve? *shakes head vigorously*

Regardless of where they take Bo romatically though, I think my true OTP for her is Bo/Badassery. I want to see her kicking butt and taking names. I want to see more of our team doing what our team does. And I want to see Tamsin fully accept her role as part of the team too, as Bo included her in the gang.

Oh and btw...Kiersten...I have to agree with you entirely. Tamsin longs for that kind of bond. I don't think she's ever really had the kind of friendships she sees with Bo and Kenzi. Remember that moment when she's talking with Bo and she says her friends wouldn't cross the street if she were on fire, or some such thing? Bo told her she needed new friends. I don't think Bo realizes how true that is or how much I feel Tamsin craves being included in such a close knit group. To belong. To matter. To be cared for and about. Reference the moment she told the Morrigan that coma fae dude would be a vegetable... and how she didn't care as long as she nailed Bo's carcass to her wall. Contrast that between Bo's attitude toward others.

"Why do you care so much?" Tamsin asked Bo. She's a total enigma to her and I feel Bo holds pieces to complete what's lost in Tamsin, no longer the virtuous, galant warrior and now just a mercenary who long ago gave away her integrity for a buck. What made her that way? I hope they answer the mystery of who this Valkyrie is.

I've seen some suggest she deliberately sabotaged the rune glass. I don't think that's true... I think the reason she was self destructing was because she was going through with turning Bo in. So why did it fail? Was it because she doesn't love Lauren? Or she doesn't trust Dyson? Or is it because they're setting Kenzi up to betray Bo?

Kenzi did have a deal with Evony for a future favor that I don't remember whether or not has been cashed in (if she did, I'm drawing a blank on the circumstances). Maybe it's because of this future "betrayal" that the kiss didn't seal the deal after all and the potion went bust.

Thoughts?
Mary Beth House
338. UberFaenatic
BTW... hi Zanza! Hi DarthFaeder! Hi Kiersten!

(Don't wanna be rude). ;)
TheGardner
339. whiskeywhite
Welcome UberFaenatic! A very interesting and thoughtful discussion of Tamsin, which I enjoyed. I thought your argument about Tamsin not being Bo's sister was clear and well thought out. You sold me. :-)

I still argue that Tamsin is going to have to be resurrected in order to return in season 4. She was definitely at death's door at the end of season 3. She needs to begin a new life cycle to be able to continue. But will that mean that she will return as a somewhat different person? She explains to Bo that in the past, when she was in her prime, she was much more powerful than when we meet her. So she has to be different to some degree when resurrected. What differences will we see? The same snarky Tamsin, just much stronger? A younger seeming, less world weary Tamsin?

Looking backward rather than forward, I was rewatching "Ceremony" which reminded me that in a recent interview (I think at DragonCon, but I won't swear to it) KHR told the interviewer that his doctor/husband character in "Ceremony" was Dyson's dream/illusion. Whether that's his interpretation and not necessarily the writers', I don't know. But it doesn't make sense to me that Dyson would dream of himself as a doctor and Bo as the cop. Why not keep his detective identity and just settle down in marriage with Bo (in the burbs, yuck)? It makes more sense to me that Bo would dream it that way, making him the doctor. Thoughts?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
340. Kiersten
I was surprised at KHR's take on Ceremony too (which he did detail at DragonCon and I heard it live). He said that Dyson, having made a selfless decision to go into the temple w/Bo, had allowed the Caretaker to influence his subconscious to create the married life with Bo and her pregnancy. I don't think the doctor/cop aspect was one that occurred to KHR when he was answering the question, rather he thought that the construct of them as a married couple and then Bo being pregnant was influenced by Dyson's desires and egged on by the Caretaker, his subconscious shaped the reality within Bo's Dawning to include those desires. (It does explain why the bedroom scene begins with him waking up & realizing Bo is not beside him rather than being initiated from Bo's POV.) But when the "pregnancy" began to cause Bo extreme pain (because it was actually her becoming UnderFae since this construct effectively delayed her journey to completing The Dawning) it jarred Dyson out of the illusion and back to the reality of their shared situation. He realized then that the Caretaker had lied about Dyson's influence not hurting Bo and immediately worked to free Bo of the illusion too. That was KHR's interpretation of those scenes in Ceremony. You can hear him talk about it on the video I posted on youtube from the Monday DragonCon panel.

But his take also doesn't take into account the clear connect between Bo experiencing a memory of her father cradling her as a baby and continuing into remembering Aoife's murder of her nurse and abduction of her infant self leading directly to Bo revealing to husband Dyson that she was pregnant. So while I do see KHR's points regarding Dyson's subconscious influence, I think it was limited to that bedroom scene and the pregnancy reveal, which means the original idea of them being married and him being DoctorDyson to Bo's cop was initially constructed by Bo's subconscious and only elaborated by Dyson's. It's well established that despite all that's happened, Bo still longs to be normal with a white-picket-fence, suburban poster life. It tracks that her subconscious would piece together this version of that life with her favorite parts of Doctor Lauren folded into Dyson's basic character to form Bo's perfect combined mate. Certainly Bo's subconscious was already fixated on babies by her memory walk before she emerged into the bedroom construct to which Dyson had contributed. So while Dyson does bear some responsibility for their reality within that bedroom scene, the overall construct of Bo's "perfect" life stems almost entirely from Bo alone.
Mary Beth House
341. UberFaenatic
That's the best explanation I've seen of The Ceremony yet. I was intrigued that her dream version of Lauren was of someone who wanted something from her she couldn't give, btw. It kind of plays on their eventual real world breakup where Lauren tells her she suspects she'll always need things from Bo that she can't give...but I found that to be really unfair to Bo. Sure, she just went through a life altering event...but she always gives her very best and I know that if Lauren had really wanted to work with her, Bo would have done everything in her power to make it work. That's why I found the scene with Lauren lamenting losing Bo to be so bizarre since she's the one who threw her away.

Dyson I feel is looking at the long game, hoping that eventually Bo and he will end up together but I just don't know. He'll always hold a special place in her heart as he was her first love...but I feel that she's moved on. And I still do not get why she had to kill him in order to evolve. Unless that's the point...she had to let go of him in order to be who she's meant to be? I dunno.

I also don't get Bo's dream Tamsin. What was with that? I'd be curious as to your interpretation. Perhaps her dream Tamsin is her seeing Tamsin as damaged? *shrugs*

I agree with whiskeywhite too. (Hi btw!) :)

I think it's clear that Tamsin will have to be reborn. She's as much said so, that she should have expired years ago. And while she clearly retains the memories of her "many lifetimes" how much of her moves on? When she's reborn, how much of her power does she retain? Of her personality? When she spoke of her in her prime, was she referring to this life cycle or a past life cycle? These are things I need to know. ;)

Now...I've been thinking about this a little. Remember the scene with Aife, Bo and Tamsin when Aife talked about Bo's father killing everyone, resurrecting them and killing them again? I don't know why, but my thoughts turned toward Tamsin. I think because I feel that Bo's father is really Odin, and that means that Tamsin has a very specific obligation to him which she abjurred.

What if her punishment after being sucked up in that black smoke cloud is to experience death and resurrection repeatedly? Which, be tee dubs, I'd have to say yikes. If that's her fate for the near future, no wonder she'd be freaked out about her decision to defy the Allfather.

Remember in Those Who Wander...and she told Bo that her decision to save Bo cursed them both? Bo said they needed to go someplace safe. Tamsin repeated the word...Safe. Knowing that no such place existed.
Annie Moore
342. drusilla_doll
As someone who suspects Tamsin is Bo's half sister or first cousin etc, I can assure you that the idea that they are related in a familial way is not just some doccubus plot, borne out of denial. ;) I just see their bond and emotional connection as not necessarily being as romantic/sexually charged as some see it. Intense? Yes. Romantic? I'm not so sure.

I have never seen them as twins, but entertained the idea that Tamsin was once an offspring of the Wanderer, one of the most likely many failed attempts at creating the perfect heir to his legacy. Several centuries removed even.

I don't deny that there's a deep bond forming there, I just am not sure it's a purely romantic one. Clearly she longs to be part of the sunshine gang and there's something about Bo she's extremely drawn to and admires.

For the record, should it turn out that Tamsin's destined to be Bo's next lover, I won't object to it. I just see that they could still make them closely connected emotionally without it being a sexual attraction thing, that's all.

Imo, Bo dealing with family issues and realising that Tamsin is one of her blood (and possibly a far older half-sister etc) is quite exciting and offers a lot of character development.

As for Bo moving on, I think the Dawning has proven she hasn't yet. Not really. She still has deep love for Dyson. But she also made a commitment to Lauren and I am fine with her wanting to remain true to that, rather than leap back into a more risky relationship with her former love. It seems pretty clear, however, and DL also seemed to be aware of it, that Dyson will always loom large in importance when it comes to Bo's family and great loves.
Mary Beth House
343. UberFaenatic
Hey DarthFaeder...I saw a couple of videos of Anna Silk at FanExpo Canada 2013 but I didn't see her make that statement. Do you have a link?

I did see her talk about the triangle and how that would continue to be explored, and in one video two of the media questioners talked about the addition of the Valkyrie and she joked that maybe the triangle will become a square, but then quickly demurred.

It's the same interview where she says she's doing action sequences and "getting action" ;) So I don't know what to take from that.
D K
344. DarthFaeder
@Hello Uberfaenatic as far as there being a link no there isn't. She made the statement but it was kinda hard to hear her. You have to listen carefully and she actually repeats herself. Right after Rachel S. asks the audience what they think about Valkubus you'll have to listen and watch closely. Right after she makes the statement that Valkubus is a valid team Anna says she plays on many teams. I hope that helps you out? @Drusilla I can see why you would think that they have a great chance of being sisters. I don't know I've seen some people suggest that Valkyries are the daughters of Odin, and yet I've seen others suggest that he only created them but not sired them? If he created them but not sired them then Bo and Tamsin are not sisters. I'd also like to suggest that I know that LG is a pretty progessive show on tv, but to have two sisters kissing is really rather disgusting!!!!!! It doesn't matter if they were contrived kisses or not it's still disturbing. As to the fact that perhaps Tamsin is just going over board with her admiration for Bo well yes it's possible. I am just totally confused by Tamsin I must admit. She hates her one moment then acts like a love sick puppy the next? Take for instance her desire to let Lauren know that Tamsin and Bo kissed in Brazenwood. I told Uberfaenatic that perhaps she mentioned the kiss to try and break up Lauren and Bo, therefore making Bo more vulnerable to being captured? What if she did it to get rid of a romantic rival? If and it's a big if I know that she did it to get rid of a romantic rival, then that clearly shows that Tamsin has romantic feelings for Bo. Just thinking about this stuff makes my head dizzy. There are just so many variables and several different ways that those are going to end up. I will say that if they are romantically destined and yes it's a big if, then I can see it turning that way fairly quickly into season 4. Frankly I get tired of always talking about Bo's love life, but the writers and producers have decided to make it front and center.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
345. Kiersten
Part of Tamsin's story was truncated in S3 b/c they'd (mistakenly) structured her story for a 22 episode season but then only got a 13 episode order. One of the major things that affected was Tamsin's story, which had to be revamped for the smaller amount of episodes. I think this explains why her transition from aggressively opposed to Bo to saying how great she is seems rather quick. It was original supposed to develop more slowly over a long episode arc.

I agree about the kissing being an issue if Tamsin turns out to be related to Bo in one way or another. But I think the show has already prepared for this by showing how reluctant Tamsin always is to kiss Bo (except for when under the influence of Stella & Trick & The Machine) and how she's almost repelled by the idea every time it's presented to her. Now, she definitely gets off on the power surge, no question, and it's clear this is particularly strong for both her and Bo for some yet unknown reason. But even when Bo kisses her in the finale to power up off of Tamsin's own power top off, Tamsin is offended. "What did you do that for?!" She never wants to kiss Bo and often resists quite strongly. In The Kenzi Scale, she quite grudgingly allowed Bo to feed off her but only after Bo had demonstrated the lengths she was willing to go for Kenzi. Tamsin responded to the nobility and committment and love Bo displayed for her best friend and helped re-energize her so that Bo could continue to fight but she was totally grossed out by the idea of kissing Bo, then and in other instances, which is what I think supports the sibling/relation theory most of all.

Of course, it doesn't explain Tamsin's behavior with Bo in the bathtub, but I think that more evidence of drunk Tamsin's spiralling despair over her situation and the hard choice she was facing than any sexual component. There was a lot of chemistry and intimacy in that scene, but also a lot of confusion, especially on Bo's part. She'd already broken up with Doctor Lauren by then, so the constraints of that relationship were no longer there to prevent Bo from taking Tamsin up on sexual offer. But Bo reads people's chi, most notably, their sexual chi, and she better than anyone would've known if Tamsin was exhibiting sincere sexual desire for Bo in that scene of if, as I believe, there was much more emotional despair trying to find an outlet and perhaps forgiveness before the act. There's a lot of complexity between Bo and Tamsin that has yet/needs to be explored and I really hope the show is brave enough not to make it a sexual component but rather to explore the myriad of layered relationships that can and do exist between women that are even more interesting for their lack of sexuality. But I doubt it.
Linda Losik
346. LindaL
Some thoughts about Tasmin: I think that she told Lauren not because of rivalry but for some reason Tasmin does like not Lauren or even trust Lauren. It could just be that Lauren is human and involved with a fae, but somehow I get the feeling that it is deeper than that. Tasmin really wants to be part of the sunshine team; IMHO, she craves it. It is something that she has never had before and now that she sees it, she really wants it. True friendship is something I think that Tasmin thought existed only in books so in the beginning she did not understand it but once she did is when the need began.

The bathtub scene showed me two things: one, that Tasmin is really confused about Bo. I am almost thinking that most succubae are Dark Fae not Light. Plus Bo does not fit the pattern that Tasmin knows for succubae. I also agree that Bo would have seen sexual chi and reacted accordingly. Instead Bo also became confused. The second is that Tasmin can really pound her liquor!

According to Norse mythology, the Valkyrie are the daughters of Odin and Freya (the earth mother). They are also warriors (not just the transport system of the Ring Cycle) who can and do interfere in human wars. But the way LG has changed some of the mythology; I could see Tasmin and Bo being cousins as well as half-sisters. Would absolutely love to see Tasmin reborn!

IMHO, all the kisses exchanged between Bo and Tasmin were either forced or for Bo to heal.
D K
347. DarthFaeder
Blah I for one am tired of all the questions left unanswered in season 3. It almost feels as if the damn writers and Jay F. intentionally did what they did with Tamsin and Bo just to F%&K with everyones minds? Which if that is the case then I say screw them! I am almost to the point that I wish Valkubus would just go away. No offense to all the Valkubus fans it's just that the whole scenerio seems really fishy to me. There are just so many theories being thrown around by just about everyone. Kiersten I think that you were right. I think that the truncated season for Tamsin got really screwed up, and it seems to be one big mess. Just another example of how far things have fallen from the awesomeness that was season 1. I for one am off Tamsin and Bo and really won't be commenting about those two any more, until season 4 rolls around. It's all just crazy speculations and like I said it makes me dizzy. Normally I love speculating about LG but I have speculated enough about Tamsin I am kinda sick of her. Anyone else have anything else to talk about as far as LG goes?
Mary Beth House
348. UberFaenatic
Neat thoughts on Tamsin, y'all. Frankly this is really refreshing. Like I said, I'm new to the fandom but not the show...so I didn't know there were some places online that were so virulently anti-Tamsin. So thank you for this great back and forth. :)

@DarthFaeder ... I agree with @Kiersten that the season being truncated played a role in how fast Tamsin's arc progressed, but I think I have an answer for you as to the "when" of it all.

For me, it was clearly The Kenzi Scale. Even though in previous episodes there had been moments where she wasn't completely antagonistic towards Bo, it was during this episode where she went from wanting her stuffed and mounted on her wall to realizing she needed to rethink her opinion of her.

It was when she saw the phony Kenzi obsessing over shiny things did she figure that this was a kitsune...but she had a choice here. No one else believed Bo. She could have let Bo go down for this but she wanted her to be taken down for the right reason (putting the dark fae in a coma) not for a lie.

But then she spent real time with her and was I feel, inexorably drawn to who Bo really is...her dedication to Kenzi, that she'd do anything to help her even if she were to have to die in the process. How was she to figure this in her thinking? Kenzi is a human after all, certainly not considered all that valuable to the fae in general. So I feel that Tamsin saw and felt for herself that Bo was not what she was led to believe her to be...that anyone with this much compassion for a mere mortal could not be a cold blooded brutal killer of fae.

And of course, she made her choice. When push came to shove, she chose Bo over the Morrigan and put to rest the bulk of her misguided animosity toward the succubus.

@Kiersten ... I don't think the energy in the tub was sexual nor do I feel was it meant to be. It was IMHO Tamsin reaching her breaking point over Acacia and realizing she had no choice but to give Bo over to her client. It was heartbreaking and tragic and it left Bo confused because Tamsin is so mercurial she doesn't know where she stands from one moment to the next.

@LindaL ... I don't know that I agree with your logic. Tamsin was in the process of betraying Bo so why would she care whether or not Lauren was or was not trustworthy? It seemed to me that she could have said or done any number of things but she chose to act out and tell Lauren about the kiss in Brazenwood.

As for that kiss, I'll agree that was a direct result of the kiss between Stella and Trick...but I don't think that it was Tamsin who was affected.

The machine was sending responses to Bo, not to anyone else. Food, poison, alcohol, whatever... affected Bo alone. Or rather, it responded to actions by Trick and transmitted responses and consequences onto Bo. So the machine reacted to Trick kissing Stella...and as Stella told Trick right before they kissed, "You have quite an effect on me".

And so that kiss affected the machine and transmitted a burst of something to Bo that jacked her attraction level off the charts so that Tamsin was unable to stop and think about it before launching herself at her.

I agree that the situations have been a bit contrived, but that's the point, no? Tamsin starts the season hating her. She's conflicted for any number of reasons...so sure she'd be resistant to acting on anything that would make her vulnerable.

Look at how fast the switch was flipped at the end of Fae-ge Against the Machine. She had gone from dolling up for Bo, taking her out for drinks, accompanying her on a quest she didn't have to be involved in and acknowledging that she didn't have to have done any of that. When Bo says she likes that Tamsin accompanied her, she's shaken a bit visibly.

When Bo pushes and says that Tamsin is one of the good ones, Tamsin's walls go right back up.

My point though is, that contrived or not, the writers wrote them. They didn't have to...it's not like we're seeing candid, unscripted moments here. They kept inserting moments that were emotional, some I feel showed that there is an attraction...even though both are resistant for their own reasons.

You know, I am fascinated with Tamsin's character...it's so full of angst and possibilities. I always seem to find myself attracted to the people in a story who are dark and conflicted but who defy what's expected of them in order to do the right thing (like Zuko in Avatar). And now Tamsin has done it twice, both with potentially disastrous consequences for her.

That said, I really am excited about the rest of the show. lol I do want to see more Bruce...I want to see where Kenzi/Hale end up. I'm so glad that they "fixed" Hale in the last couple episodes because I was starting to dislike him and how he treated Kenzi and Lauren. So to see he really was still the Hale I lurved, that made me very happy.

And of course, I wanna know where the smoke took Bo, Tamsin and Dyson.

So many questions!!! :)
Mary Beth House
349. UberFaenatic
BTW...are we going to get another ConFaedential? It'd be nice to "make up" for the twisting and turning they're putting viewers through.
Annie Moore
350. drusilla_doll
While I agree that Tamsin kissing Bo might seem icky in retrospect if they turn out to be half sisters, let's not forget that Bo and Aoife also shared a hot kiss when they first met and before Bo knew Aoife was her mother. So the writers have already gone there before on this show. ;)

Also, there is the classic misdirect in Star Wars where Princess Leia kisses her half brother in a romantic way to deny her attraction to Han. Neither Luke nor Leia knew they were twins until much later.

Despite Tamsin's story arc being so truncated this last season, I still have loved just how conflicted she became : wanting to become one of Bo's trusted companions and yet knowing she was going to have to betray her or suffer the consequences.

I definitely am interested to see where the character goes next, how she will find her place with the others. I do love that Dyson has grown to trust and accept her as one of his friends.

@LindaL , I pretty much agree with your analysis. As to why Tamsin revealed the kiss to Lauren, I saw it as her taking the opportunity to undermine DL/Bo and drive a wedge which might work in her favor. She knew she was meant to sever Bo's emotional bonds with Dyson, Kenzi and Lauren - that was the whole point of the druidic potion. By sowing distrust, it would aid her in driving Bo closer to Tamsin. But I also think she was acting out, deliberately playing the 'villain' so to speak because that's how she saw herself and she envied how Bo was able to gain people's love/loyalty so easily.
Mary Beth House
351. UberFaenatic
Hey drusilla_doll...I didn't see that the druidic potion was to sever Bo's emotional bonds but rather that those elements, the hair from those she loved, trusted and her own head sealed with a kiss by one who'd never betray her served to ID her for the specific potion.

I do agree though that she was acting out because she felt self-hate...that she was undeserving of anything positive because she was betraying someone she had come to see as being noble and virtuous as opposed to her own view of herself.

BTW...as for the kiss between Bo and Aife... I don't see how that could have been classified as hot. It was a brief peck on the lips and then a small transfer of energy. There was nothing remotely sexual about it.
(I just rewatched it to confirm I was remembering correctly). That seemed to only be Aife's way of outting herself to Bo as a fellow succubus.
Linda Losik
352. LindaL
I could be wrong, but I thought that the druidic potion was to bind Bo not sever any bonds that Bo might have had at that point in time.

@UberFaenatic: I agree that there was no passion just an introduction kiss between two succubae….while I am sure that there is some passion at some level for all of Bo’s feeding, I am not really sure if it is all just a sexual passion. I say this because chi has been defined as many things which while it does include sex is not limited to sex. Yes, Bo does see sexual chi but stated in Vexed that she feeds off of “chi”. Of course, if they didn’t rewrite everything we might have some consistency, but there I go again being picky….sorry.
Mary Beth House
353. UberFaenatic
LOL Yes, consistency is tough for those of us who like to follow character and relationship arcs.

For instance...Karen Beattie??? What the heck? That's so out of left field. Nothing I saw in the first two seasons suggested anything of the sort was on the table. Didn't Nadia know Lauren for like years and years? Like since college or something...or is that something my imagination is conjuring?

I do hope we get an explanation of the Karen angle because when I did my rewatch of the series last week, I saw nothing that would even hint to that level of duplicity from Lauren. Sure, we saw how conflicted she was because she belonged to the Ash and because her feelings for Bo kind of screwed with her senses and sent her into a tailspin. When she spy-banged Bo, we knew it was at the behest of the Ash insofar as he ordered her to use Bo's succubus nature to keep her out of the way while using that as a personal excuse to finally jump in and express her feelings.

But the kind, compassionate Lauren we've seen being constructed over the last few years, the one who put others and their safety ahead of her own...it's like they're trying to rewrite her core essence with no regard to what they've created and who Zoie's been playing.
Mary Beth House
354. UberFaenatic
BTW... I have a question about Aife. In Those Who Wander, after she's been stabbed, she shares with Bo that she was named Ysabeau like her grandmother (although I think the spelling is different).

Bo tells her she knows...that Trick has told her everything...and Aife says, "Trick. Look out for him."

The phrase "look out for him" has two completely different meanings. One means, "take care of him of watch after his safety"...and the other is a warning. "Watch out for him/be on the lookout/keep your guard up."

We know Aife's history with Trick is, shall we say, messy. But she was having a very lucid moment as she was fading off pre-Cabbit chi-suckage.

So was it a warning or a call for Bo to look after her grandfather?
Annie Moore
355. drusilla_doll
Maybe you're right but in rewatching scenes concerning the potion, there's nothing mentioned about IDing Bo for the potion, just that those elements are required to make the potion work which Acacia says will 'put the whammy on her, make her putty in your hands'. But she also claims to not be a druid and not to really know how it will work. Massimo says 'the serum to tame the succubus is ready' after he secures Kenzi's kiss.

When the potion doesn't work, Bo suggests the druid fudged the recipe and Tamsin counters 'or maybe you just don't love and trust the way you claim.' So I don't see where the elements were only meant to ID Bo, they seem intregal to making the potion do whatever it was supposed to do to Bo.

I guess it was just my assumption that making Bo putty in Tamsin's hands meant making her less connected to those she cared about, transferring those elements - love, trust and loyalty - to Tamsin. If that makes sense. Binding her in that way. I can see how others might disagree with that interpretation and perhaps it wasn't necessary to remove/transfer her feelings for the others. In the end the result would still be the same: having Bo under Tamsin's control.

As for the kiss, you're right, it was briefer than I remembered. I knew it was always just a way to out herself to Bo, but Bo's comment about girl on girl action prior to it had made it seem a touch sexier in my mind. Admittedly I've not rewatched season one for some time and clearly my recollection is faulty in terms of how sizzling it was.

Still, I believe that Tamsin's attraction to Bo seems more to do with her own emotional isolation and conflicted desire to make a real genuine connection than lust/sexual tension.

As Tamsin says to Massimo 'love will get you killed' which is in response to his reference to her feelings for her mentor Acacia. Clearly Tamsin wants to love and be loved (and I am talking about agape sort of love) but has learned from experience that caring deeply for someone will only end badly. That's what makes her struggle with herself over her betrayal over Bo so touching, imo.

Obviously I could be wrong about Tamsin's role not necessarily being Bo's next and future lover, and if I am, that's perfectly fine with me. :)


ETA: Yep, the inconsistency of writing with DL is one of the reasons why I get so frustrated with the character and how it's being portrayed. It's like the writers are trying to make her more interesting just by telling us she was all of these cool, exciting things in her past. She can make pipe bombs, whee! Isn't she so edgy??


It falls flat and just gives me a severe case of whiplash.

Aoife: I got the impression that she doesn't trust Trick. But you're right, the comment could be taken either or both ways.
Katherine Bloom
356. lsbloom
I don't think Tamsin had any motivation in revealing the kiss to Lauren. The writers needed someone to tell Lauren and that was a good dramatic moment for it. I have difficulty given them credit for thinking further than that. It wasn't like Tamsin was jealous of Lauren or wanted Bo for herself, if that were the case how do you read that wistful/sad look at the Dyson's picture of Bo earlier in the episode? There's the idea that she was trying to undermine the potion, but that requires a lot of assumptions about the potion and how it worked. Personally, I read it as Tamsin was regretting what she was doing and lashed out to cover her guilt: "I have to be a bad guy, so fine, I'll act like a bad guy." I think they wanted a spat and a reason for Lauren to be pissed, so they had Tamsin tell her.

I thought the potion was going to transfer the emotional bonds to the thrower: trust, love, friendship. To make Bo easy to control. But then the potion did nothing and it was lame and what it did and why it had (the varying) ingredients seemed moot.

Interesting idea @UberFaenatic. I thought it was a warning and didn't look past that. It is possible she was asking Bo to take care of Trick, it just seems out of character. I thought we were supposed to question what Trick was hiding now in regards to Bo's father. Trick and the Wanderer seem to be at odds and Aoife certainly appeared to be in daddy's camp.
Mary Beth House
357. UberFaenatic
@drusilla_doll.... Oh good point about the potion. I forgot about the "put the whammy" part. Since they left that in the air as to what that meant because Acacia didn't really know, it could have been anything I suppose that would have assured Bo would not be able to fight back.

But y'all make good points about the purpose of the potion. Why it didn't work though is the question. I don't think Tamsin sabotaged it. She was too defeated and broken to have done anything other than actually go through with it.

So why did it fail? Does that mean Bo doesn't love Lauren? Or doesn't trust Dyson? Or that Kenzi will betray her? The first two seem highly unlikely...so my guess is that it didn't work because of some future betrayal by Kenzi...like I said above, perhaps something that goes back to her deal with the Morrigan.

And I agree about Tamsin's emotional status. I just feel that they've dropped enough clues that there's some attraction there as well, with Bo reciprocating the kiss in Brazenwood...that she went with Tamsin in the first place as opposed to going dress shopping for Lauren's big night... or Tamsin playing wing man during her quest when she didn't have to be there. It's all total speculation at this point for me too. lol I do feel that they intended to hint that there was something beyond the hate that both are reluctant to address for their own reasons. :)

@lsbloom... I read the moment as one that drew her back and made her question what she was doing. I mean she was there to get the hair...but then she saw the picture and was like, "what am I doing? I can't do this." So she tosses out the potion.

I don't know if it was jealousy as much as if I can't have her no one can. I just feel she was in self-destruct at that point having already committed to selling Bo out after what happened to Acacia. The next time we see Tamsin, she's three sheets to the wind, I think in response both to losing Acacia and to the dispair she feels about caring for someone and having to, yet again, lose them...kind of like she hinted in Confaegion...that she sometimes has to make people she likes go away.

But I do agree they kind of used her as a plot device in order to "tell" Lauren about the kiss. But why does it matter if it wasn't a big deal? Apparently it was big enough to both Tamsin and Bo that they had to tell someone else about it, albeit Tamsin chose to use that as a a weapon to hurt Lauren.

Bo and Tamsin are puzzled by the behavior of the other...they're wary and for good reason. When Tamsin spares Bo, she finally sees the full nature of the panic Tamsin feels. "I've cursed us. You have no idea." And Bo gives her the strength to choose to fight back although I suspect Tamsin thinks that such an idea is laughable, not to mention impossible.

And also ...good point about Aife. It's clear Trick hasn't told Bo everything, even though Bo believes he has. He does know somethings that he's held close to his vest.

Obviously Aife knows who Bo's father is...and Trick either knows or suspects. So why hasn't he warned Bo?

Aife could indeed be warning Bo that Trick has ulterior motivations.
Linda Losik
358. LindaL
@lsbloom: I think that you are right about it was a warning for Bo “to look after” as in “to take care of” Trick. The blood king had healed the mental illness of his daughter (at least for a little while) so she no longer hated him. I think that Aofie knew that her lover and her father would Not be best of friends…

@drusill_doll:I like you suffer from whiplash on DL to the point of nausea…:-)

I am curious as to why Trick had to leave town; why it was safer for him to be away….somehow, I am thinking that not only was there a play by the Morrigan to get rid of Trick but for her to destroy or at least rule the Light Fae….I love VEX! So, does anybody have any guesses as to why Trick is safer away and just what did Hale know????
TheGardner
359. stacymd2
@UberFaenatic: Welcome! I liked the “Kenziscale” as well. I hope you continue to post here. You have some interesting thoughts on Tamsin. She has certainly been a good –and polarizing—new addition to Lost Girl. The writers have set her up to be either a new lover; a new sister or a Faith (Buffy) like frenemy to Bo. I could get behind anyone of those in Season 4. The situation I would like the most is as a sister and frenemy. I want RS to stay on the show. If Bo didn’t already have two permanent love interests on LG I would want her in the mix with Bo/Dyson, but three is already a crowd.

@DarthFaeder: Don’t give up on Bo/Tamsin yet. No one knows what S4 will hold for any character. The speculation can be infuriating, but it is also part of the fun.

I admit that a part of me wants to see a Bo/Tamsin romance—or at least a hot, wild fling—just to watch Doccubus explode. But, the way they have personally attached RS, it may be better for Rachel if the writers not go there until Tamsin is fleshed out and her place is secure within the happy sunshine gang first.

@LindaL, Drusilla_doll & Kiersten: I agree that the kisses between Tamsin and Bo have been contrived. Tamsin seems lonely and she wants to have friends/family. I don’t think she knows that Bo is the Wanderer’s daughter so she may not be aware of any half-sisterly relation. Also, she didn’t seem to recognize Aife nor did Aife recognize her. All Tamsin seems to know is that the Wanderer really wants Bo, not his reasons. This is why I disagree that Tamsin was “grossed out” by any supposed sexual feelings she may or may not have towards Bo. She has no reason to be grossed out yet.

The writers can take Tamsin any direction. She could easily fit into Bo’s gang or become the Morrigan’s bad ass girl Friday. Tamsin is definitely more interesting than Lauren in the single season she has been on.

@whiskeywhite, Kiersten & UnderFaenatic: I just love how everyone has a different interpretation of the Dawning episode. The “Ceremony” will either go down as one of LG’s best episodes or the worst. I think Dyson was meant to be there during Bo’s Dawning. It was fate. If he wasn’t there to be Bo’s key, then Bo would have failed her Dawning, becoming an underfae. During this intense, Fae rite of passage, Bo took each stage of her journey with the people she loves or needed the most: Kenzi (to face her mother); Trick & Tamsin (the machine/Brazenwood) and Dyson (for the final test). Lost Girl is also about Bo creating her family. It would be poetic if Tamsin turned out to be Bo’s sister in S4.

@Char: I watched Haven on Friday and loved it as well. It is such a better show than Lost Girl, but I don’t like it enough to post comments on fan boards. The men on Haven are so hot: Lucas Bryant, Eric Balfour & especially Adam “Edge” Copeland. I have to admit that I adore Bree Williamson to pieces. I was a huge One Life to Live fan. I just hate that Haven’s Powers That Be killed off her character. I don’t like how they turned Jordan into an angry, “woman scorned” harpy. I hope they tone her down. Also, I just can’t get into the Nathan/Audrey/Duke triangle for the life of me. It may just be me, but I see more chemistry between Nathan/Duke and Nathan/Dwight than I do between Audrey and her two love interests. I’m digging new barmaid Audrey so I hope she clicks with either Nathan or Duke.

@whiskeywhite: Queer as Folk was my favorite show. I watched it religiously. It was the only reason I got & kept Showtime. When QaF ended, I dropped Showtime like “a bad lay” as Brian would say. That show was so brave and ground breaking for its time. It took on many LGBTQ issues (bullying, hate crimes, gay-hating politicians, HIV/AIDS, gay marriage & adoption, acceptance) as well as regular issues (mother/son issues, child care, spousal abuse) long before the weak, watered down TV shows that are on right now—like Lost Girl, Glee. QaF was truly sex positive. Brian was more of a succubus than Bo currently is.

@Char & bungluna: Brian/Justin were a part of Queer as Folk, but the show had other characters that actively searched and found romantic love. Most of QaF’s audience was straight females (both the British and American versions).

@whiskeywhite: There are some parallels to Brian and Bo. Both are self-centered, immature, devoted to their loyal BFF and will do anything for their loved ones. Brian, however, unapologetically had (outside of his relationship) sex because he wants to. Bo has (outside of her relationship) sex because of her biological need.

I know some may disagree, but I strong think Lost Girl only pays lip service to being “sex positive”. What shows up on screen is not sex positive. Bo has had to explain or discuss and justify her bio need to both Lauren and Dyson, which means that there is some shame there. Both of them knew before Bo did that other partners were always going to be part of the deal with her, so she shouldn’t have to deeply talk to them about it. Lauren should not put people off limits & whine when the inevitable happens. Also on QaF strongly advocated condom use, which we here have discussed regarding Bo’s sexual activity.

@Kiersten: I would be pissed too if TPTB put Bo and Dyson back together again in the series finale, but that is exactly what I think EA will do. Brian and Justin were actively together through the majority of QaF’s run, unlike Bo/Dyson who ended before Season one.

@Char: In my fantasy Dyson/New Shifter Wolf story I wanted to stay away from foxes due to the Kitsune. I’ve had more than enough of them.

Does anyone else want to see a mermaid on Lost Girl? Wouldn’t it be funny if Hale’s ex shows up and she is a mermaid? Or, how about some kind of female pirate fae? She could be all like, “Hale! Where have you been since 1620? Come here and shiver me timbers!”

@DarthFaeder: Bite your fingers! Dyson’s wolf junk is never going to fall off.
Mary Beth House
360. UberFaenatic
@stacymd2...thanks for the welcome! Lots of great thoughts in your post.

We do know that Tamsin knows who Bo's father is because she identifies him right before taking Dyson over the cliff. She has to have known since she was rained on by Wanderer cards because there doesn't seem to be any other time where there's some sort of realization about Bo's identity.

It's what adds depth to Acacia's comment..."name me one person he wants more than her." Both of them know there is no one he wants more than his daughter.

I don't think that there's any reason she should have recognized Aife though. But she did seem to blanch a little when Aife talked about Bo's father...how if he were there he'd kill everyone, resurrect them, and kill them again. Does this mean she's seen this before? She told Bo, she's lived with death. As a Valkyrie that makes perfect sense but perhaps it also means that she's experienced this death/resurrection herself as punishment for not falling in line ... or she knows other fae who have.

Also...I too want to see Hale's backstory explored more. We met his entirely delightful family of bigots...but I'd like to see how he was able to break free from that..how his mother influenced him.

I don't see many folks mentioning this...but I'd also REALLY love to see Kenzi's backstory. In the Confaedential, Ksenia spoke about her desire to look into Kenzi's past and see if she too were a victim of bullies. How did she get to be as strong as she is? She's mentioned her stepfather but it's only been throw away lines.

Basically, I want more Kenzi and Hale! I've shipped them since season 1 and almost gave up on them with how dismissive Hale was to her this year. Thankfully, Hale pulled through like a BOSS. :)
D K
361. DarthFaeder
@Stacymd2 alright I won't give up on Bo and Tamsin. To be honest I suppose I am not giving up so much as just tired of trying to figure out
what in the hell the writers and Jay F. has in store for those two. That whole relationship is just so damn confusing and I don't know what I believe about the two of them. I probably just won't be so eager for now to jump into any more speculation about Valkubus. BTW I don't really want Valkubus to go away I just want some answers damn it!!!!! LOL!
@Uberfaenatic those are a bunch of ideas that you have thanks for sharing them :). Oh and you are right Bo and Aiofe just had a quick peck on the lips certainly nothing to write home about. @ Linda I am curious too as to why Trick left town, although maybe he did it as a chance to go spend time with Stella in Scotland. I wouldn't blame him for that.
Pandra Selivanov
362. Zanza
Whatever the potion was supposed to do, it seemed pretty clear that it didn't work. Kenzi is unassailable, so the only explanation would seem to be what Tamsin said-that Bo doesn't trust or love as she says she does. Of course they gave two recipes for the potion, but either way, it seems to come down to Bo either not loving or not trusting Lauren. Because we know that she does trust Dyson, absolutely and unconditionally even when she's furious with him.
TheGardner
363. Char
DarthFaeder--Trick leaving town knowing who is Bo's father is so immature to me. For what? Stella. I know. I know. hale kidnapped him but Trick needs to turn around and go back to Bo.

More to come but at work! :(
Linda Losik
364. LindaL
@Char: I thought that Trick left town and went into hiding because of what the Morrigan had masterminded. While he does think that he does have a rather good idea as to just who Bo’s father is, he is unaware as to what has happened to the entire team. Which also includes DL going “bad or rouge” on the fae because I don’t think he knows as to what happened at Dr. Taft’s compound; he was too busy dealing with a coup and then being kidnapped by Hale. When Bo got back to the Dal, Trick was already gone into hiding. I think that if Trick knew what happed to the team, he never would have left town. But then, he only knew what Hale knew…which isn’t much.
Mary Beth House
365. UberFaenatic
@Char... I think Trick left because he was a target politically. The Morrigan is out of the way for the moment but I doubt that will last too long...and there is no Ash.

As more and more people find out about Trick's powers and his role as the Blood King, the greater the chances that someone will try to force his hand and engage politically.

Remember when the Ash of old confronted him? He wanted to see if Trick was a threat and Trick basically said that for now he was happy on the sidelines.

Also, Rick Howland said he'd think Trick could be enticed back into politics were Bo to be threatened in any way. So the Ash knew that and more than likely others do too.

That still doesn't explain why he didn't pass on his info and concerns to Bo. Like that picture he uncovered with the horse? I never understood what that's about but my guess is that it's related to Bo's dad.
Suzanne Metaxas
366. SuzyM
Welcome @UberFaenatic :) so nice to have a new voice in the debate :) Took me time to catch up, been away for a while.

As to why Tamsin zinged Lauren about the kiss when she took her hair, I think she was trying to sabotage DL/Bo because she likes Dyson and was trying to help him. I feel like that because when she saw the picture of Bo in his draw it touched her and she ditched the bottle.

I also think the postion may have worked and that is why the Wanderer could get Bo with the smoke.
Mary Beth House
367. UberFaenatic
Hey @SuzyM! Thanks for the welcome. :D It's nice to be in a place where we can all kind of bring our different views and not be demonized for them. lol

As for your interpretation of that scene with Lauren...I dunno that I agree. She was in the process of selling Bo out to her mercenary boss. Bo was going to be gone off the scenes.

So I don't know that I agree that she did it to help out Dyson. I still puzzle at it though. It was done with such venom...and to me it felt like she just wanted to lash out and hurt others in response to her own self destruction.
Mary Beth House
368. UberFaenatic
@Zanza... You know what though? Maybe the potion did work. Tamsin didn't know what it was supposed to do, right?

Well, the end of the episode had Bo be sucked up into a cloud of black smoke. If Bo's daddy had that kind of power all along, then why didn't he do that to begin with? Why send Tamsin and/or Acacia to retrieve her?

I'm starting to think that perhaps the potion did in fact work but just differently than presumed. Rather than weakening her, perhaps it made it possible for Daddy to transport her.
Linda Losik
369. LindaL
Okay, here is a question for everyone: Just what was exactly Tamsin’s charge???? Was it to kill Bo or to capture her….I ask because if the potion was supposed to make her amenable to transport via smoke, then it work but if it was to reduce her fighting abilities, then it most assuredly did not work.
Annie Moore
370. drusilla_doll
I tend to go by what the druid said, since he's the one who created the potion. According to him, it was meant to 'tame the succubus'.

Acacia speculated it would put the whammy on Bo, make her putty in Tamsin's hands, but she also admitted she didn't know for sure what it would do.

There's nothing in the dialogue to suggest the potion was to locate/ID Bo and make her vulnerable to transport.

In fact, the whole reason the runeglass potion is brought up is because Tamsin tells Acacia that even if she wanted to bring in Bo, 'she's too strong', she'd gone through the Dawning now etc.

As for Tamsin's task? It seemed pretty clear to me she was meant to take Bo to the Wanderer, by any means necessary. I don't think there was ever any dialogue hinting at her having to kill Bo, just take her away. Tamsin does express concern/fear to Acacia, however, as to what will happen to Bo once she's delivered to the Wanderer.
Mary Beth House
371. UberFaenatic
@LindaL... If I recall her conversation with Acacia correctly, it was to bring Bo in. At that point, she was hoping to pull off a switch-a-roo and bring in someone else as a trade but the hand in the box made her realize that if she tried to play games here, she'd end up seriously regretting it.

I don't think she cheated it nor do I think Massimo screwed it up either. And she loves Lauren and trusts Dyson, regardless of Tamsin's snippy response. And Kenzi...unless she's going to betray Bo at some point...which I suppose is possible if Evony tightens the screws on her because of the Nate thing. But I'm rethinking that too.

That's why I'm thinking that in fact the potion did work after all it just didn't do what people assumed it might.
Mary Beth House
372. UberFaenatic
@drusilla_doll... but what does "tame" mean in context here?

Perhaps "tame" here meant that it gave him the ability to take her and
that she would be powerless to fight back? Hmm. That does seem like an odd interpretation on my part now that I think of it.

But if the Wanderer had the ability to smoke her out before Tamsin runeglassed her, why didn't he?
Annie Moore
373. drusilla_doll
Maybe he didn't want to reveal himself. Or it was difficult for him to come to this plane, after all we've seen him contact Bo before but only by possessing someone else (ep 11). But in the end he got tired of sending others to do the job and when Tamsin switched sides, he took the matter into his own hands?
Katherine Bloom
374. lsbloom
Tamsin specifically said the potion was a dud. Therefore, she had to know enough about how it was supposed to work to know that it didn't. It was meant to help her capture Bo and bring her in--what Acacia said she'd do if Tamsin didn't. Tamsin is a bounty hunter--not an assassin. Bo was her bounty.
Mary Beth House
375. UberFaenatic
Y'all could be right. I was just wondering if perhaps Tamsin thought it was a dud because it didn't seem to do what she had expected. :)

Is it November yet? *sigh*
TheGardner
376. Char
@UberFaenatic--Welcome!!! Sorry about not responding but I just got out of jury duty and came back to work. But I'm getting used to the idea of watching Lost Girl in January. Remember, Spoilers Sweetie!!! :) but Trick wasnt planning on leaving with Stella. He was going to hide until "politics" cooked down. He wouldn't have left Bo alone with her daddy. But when he saw Stella, it seemed as if he he was happy to be with Stella.

@Stacymd2---I love Queer as Folk but Bryan and Justin were the most compelling in the relationship. I always wondered will Justin stay or go? Will Bryan say I love you? Between all the Lost Girl relationships I find Tamsin to be the most complex. You know where does she fit in the wheel. Can she fit in the wheel? Will Bo's daddy let her out to play?

@DrusillaDoll--- Daddy is scared, nervous or afraid of meeting Bo. He is able to communicate with her in songs and in the Dawning. He sent Tamsin and Acacia to Bo. He has so many people at his disposal. Why only use Tamsin? We know he has minions everywhere. Why the potion? A dud. A test for Tamsin to prove her loyalty.

@LindaL---Tamsin is meant to to tame the succubus. She didnt. So now Daddy is mad but not so mad because he is with his Bo.

@SuzyM--Can't Tamsin sense doubt? She sensed Lauren's doubt about her relationship with Bo. Tamsin jut gave a little nudge to cloud Lauren's mind even more. She has never sensed doubt with Kenzi and Dyson.
Mary Beth House
377. UberFaenatic
@Char... I'll do my fae-ry best not to spoil anyone come November. :D

Interesting theory about the potion being a dud to test Tamsin. In which case, she sorta passed and sorta failed, since she should theoretically have fully taken Bo down rather than join Team Bo. In which case, I wouldn't want to be in her Valkyrie-boots right now.

Good thought about sensing doubt. We know she can cause it...can she sense it too?
D K
378. DarthFaeder
For anyone who is interested I know of a website you can go to that will allow you to view shows like the ones in Canada that those of us in the U.S. or UK don't have access to. It will give you a temporary new VPN address. They say on the website that it is legal so you will probably have to do some reseach to make sure that it is legal. If Keirsten says it's okay to give you the name of the website then I'll let you guys know what name to google. @ LindaL I think it was Tamsin's job to simply bring Bo to the wanderer and not kill her. I also think that the wanderer choose to work through Tamsin, and could have smoked her out at any time. I think it was Jay F. and the writers way of introducing Tamsin to the show. I don't know one way or another if the potion worked or not? If it didn't work it was either because of what Tamsin said and that is Bo either doesn't love and trust the way she claims, or Tamsin screwed up the hairs? @ Char I think Trick leaving was necessary he is an important Fae to the Fae world and if the Morrigan was gunning for him then he needed to leave. I don't believe that Trick knew that Bo was in trouble or he probably would have stayed.
I think it's safe to assume that life in the Fae world goes back to normal or somewhat normal after the first few episodes. They can't have Bo being a prisoner at the Wanderer's lair all season, and yes if he is going to punish Tamsin he will, but I think that Bo will get Tamsin out of trouble with Daddy.
D K
379. DarthFaeder
Okay so I asked a friend about the legality of tempoarily changing ones VPN address and he said that most likely it's not against US law but that you would have to check you terms and agreement clause with your internet provider to see if they will allow it.
TheGardner
380. Char
@DarthFaeder---Trick may not know Bo is in danger. But if you have an inkling of what or who Bo's father is, why leave? Or tell someone that Bo's father is ODIN and then leave. I don't know about Trick most of the times. And he has been on the show for 3 seasons going on 4. Lauren is my worst of all time. But Trick is close. Very close.
D K
381. DarthFaeder
@Char yeah I know what you mean I'm not a big fan of trick really, because he keeps secrets from people. His motives maybe well intentioned but I think it shows a lack of trust. As far as Lauren goes she is a character that you really love or really can't stand. I am okay with her but find her to be unsympathic to Bo. Bo has to deal with a bunch of crazy S**t that seems to always find her and Lauren just doesn't seem to care at times. Lauren's whole life seems to be wrapped up in Bo, but Bo's life is not wrapped up in Lauren's. As a matter of fact Kenzi seems to be more important to Bo than Lauren does. The fact that Bo routinely lies to Lauren because she probably doesn't think that Lauren will understand her plight that she finds herself in routinely doesn't help. Anyways I think that the writers routinely make the cast of characters look like douche Bags so I blame them!
Pandra Selivanov
382. Zanza
Sorry it took me a while to get back to you, UberFaenatic. You said
@Zanza... You know what though? Maybe the potion did work. Tamsin didn't know what it was supposed to do, right? Well, the end of the episode had Bo be sucked up into a cloud of black smoke. If Bo's daddy had that kind of power all along, then why didn't he do that to begin with? Why send Tamsin and/or Acacia to retrieve her? I'm starting to think that perhaps the potion did in fact work but just differently than presumed. Rather than weakening her, perhaps it made it possible for Daddy to transport her.
I've been hearing that argument for a while and to me it doesn't seem persuasive. Tamsin said she had never known a druid's potion to be a dud before. In other words, Tamsin said the potion didn't work. I think it's reasonable to assume Tamsin knows if the potion worked or not. Her statement implies that she has used, or seen used, druid's potions in the past and she knows if they have worked.

As far as why would Bo's father have Tamsin use a potion instead of getting her himself, I think the more pertinent question is, why should Bo's father be different from every other person in power on the show? Aoife had plenty of juice to get Bo herself, but she still sent minions. The Morrigan has no problem getting her hands dirty, but she rarely does any work herself if she can have somebody else do it for her. Heck, for that matter, Trick doesn't need barmaids. He can serve drinks himself. ;)

So for me, it seems perfectly logical that Bo's father has the power to collect her himself, but like everyone else, he uses underlings. The potion failed, and Tamsin rebelled, so at that point, he decided, like many others, that if you want a job done right, you have to do it yourself. The fact that he hired someone to get Bo doesn't mean anything other than he hired someone to get Bo. It doesn't mean he couldn't get her himself. Tamsin said the potion failed, and the potion was only meant to help her anyway, not him. And when Tamsin couldn't get Bo, he went and got her himself.
Mary Beth House
383. UberFaenatic
@DarthFaeder...I've shipped Bo with Dyson...and I've shipped Bo with Lauren...and now I ship her with Tamsin. lol

But I get confused by those who think that Lauren is her OTP. It's as if Season 3 never happened. I remember Zoie saying that she felt it was important that they explored that relationship and I agree with her...and what I walked away with was that there were too many faetal flaws that I feel doom them. As it was, Lauren is the one who walked away. Bo was in it and willing to fight and Lauren was not. I also don't think that Lauren can handle the idea of Bo's needs as a succubus, no matter how many times she says as a doctor she understands. I dunno but I just feel that it was good they went there...and now that we've seen it, let's move on. lol

As for Dyson, their relationship ended with neither of their consent. In fact, both were willing to take things to the next level, pre-Norn. I could see them picking up down the road a lot more than I can see her with Lauren tbh.

But since both of those have been explored, I want to see something new...and that's Tamsin. I want to see the tortured dark fae find redemption blah blah and see how that could work. It might be epic or it might also be something that we try and see the flaws are too much for them to overcome and then move on.

@Zanza...yeah I'd tend to agree. I kind of reconsidered the idea after I posted it. lol

Regarding Trick... he's clearly not telling Bo everything she needs to know. He's held a bit too much close to the vest and that might have put her in a situation where she's in more danger for not knowing.

I don't think it's intentional... I think he's still not used to trusting. But I think having lived in the shadows for as long as he has is making it tougher to have an open relationship with his granddaughter.
TheGardner
384. Char
Is the reason Bo could not revive Tamsin because she was using her chi power and not her resurrection power?

@UberFaenatuc--I have always thought that Tansin can creat and sense doubt.
Mary Beth House
385. UberFaenatic
@Char... you could be right...she did say that doubt was kind of "her thing." So just like Bo who's thing is chi, sexual and otherwise, Tamsin's is doubt.
Linda Losik
386. LindaL
@Char: I thought that she was using her resurrection power on Tamsin because Bo was taking the chi from guard and Tamsin was rejecting it because it keep flowing back to the "happy" dude...
Mary Beth House
387. UberFaenatic
@LindaL... I agree.

And I think the reason it didn't work wasn't because of something the "happy dude" did or had... I think that was a misdirect.

Instead I think it didn't work because Tamsin is at the end of her lifecycle.
Linda Losik
388. LindaL
@UberFaenatic: I totally agree; had not thought of that but it does make sense....on a side note: who would have thought that the writers were actually trying to be logical???? :-))
Mary Beth House
389. UberFaenatic
@LindaL... lol. I know really?

Oh and I looked back at the episode where Massimo is explaining the potion to Kenzie... he said clearly that it was meant to bind for the purposes of enslaving or whatever. So I was wrong.

I do wonder now if someone's theory above, don't remember whose...is accurate. There was one line that threw me when I first heard it... and actually @Kiersten covered it in her recap of "Those Who Wander" :
“Measured it three times, cut it once,” Massimo assures her. “He won’t measure,” Tamsin warns a clear threat that if Massimo has screwed up the mix, there will be no measure to the amount of punishment The Wanderer will rain down on him for failing. Massimo stops and for the first time looks genuinely afraid. His gaze flickers between Bo and Tamsin before he finally walks away.
Massimo was extra careful. He did not and would not have intentionally screwed it up and yet it didn't work. So either Tamsin is right and Bo doesn't love and trust like she says (which I doubt) or The Wanderer ensured it wouldn't work to test Tamsin's loyalty, a test she failed when she joined Team Bo.
Linda Losik
390. LindaL
@UberFaenatic: But what if the Wanderer wanted it to fail and to force Tamsin to join the Sunshine Team. He would want to have the best people surrounding his daughter. Being Dark Fae, Tamsin would not be happy working with Light Fae or with an unaligned Fae, so I could easily see some manipulation being required.

This does beg this simple little question: What if the potion was supposed to bind Tamsin to Bo and not to do anything to Bo??? After the potion was released, even though there was a very nicely done hand-to-hand fight, it seems to me that Tamsin's heart wasn't really in it. If your assumptions that Bo does love and trust these people are correct and Massimo's potions do not fail, then there is another outcome expected. Like binding Tamsin to Bo.
Katherine Bloom
391. lsbloom
I have to disagree with the "test" idea. You don't threaten and torture to "test" someone. If they require their only friend's hand to be cut off to do what you hired them to do, they already failed the loyalty test.
Mary Beth House
392. UberFaenatic
@LindaL... A couple thoughts. I don't think the Wanderer's intentions are good or that he wants Bo to be putty in his hands so he can form her to his will. No one who knows who he is thinks he's anything other than scary and horrifying. Tamsin, Acacia, Massimo, the Kitsune twerps...no one.

And Acacia is terrified of him to the point of turning on Tamsin to get the job done. Then Tamsin gets the box with her hand and, well, I think that seals it.

Plus...Massimo made it clear to Kenzie in the second to last episode that the potion was to imprison Bo to make it easy for her to be enslaved or killed. Not only that, he re states it later on when he's talking to Bo who's pretending to be Tamsin:

Massimo: Hello Blondie...it's the druid. Just thought you'd like to know I've secured the kiss from the best friend. The serum to tame the succubus is ready.

So unless he's lying to both Tamsin and Kenzie, then it's clear that the purpose of the serum is to nullify/weaken/enslave Bo.

Besides that, the potion had nothing to do with Tamsin. All of the elements, the hair from the loved one, trusted one and Bo herself...sealed with a kiss of one who would never betray...all center on Bo.

And I do agree... Tamsin puts on a show but her heart isn't in it. But I don't think it's the potion. I think it's because she has feelings for Bo. And Bo picks up on the fact that Tamsin didn't really want to do any of that...her heart wasn't in it which is why she couldn't finish it like Tamsin demanded and instead urged Tamsin, who is the very definition of conflicted here, to fight. Even though Tamsin knows there's no safe place, there is no way to fight, she does it anyway because she's never met anyone like Bo before and she really doesn't want to do what she was tasked to do.
D K
393. DarthFaeder
@Uberfaenatic I kinda in a way have to disagree with you on the Tamsin loyalty part. If Tamsin was truly wanting to be disloyal she would have just told Bo would was going to come her way. Tamsin and Bo would have never had that awesome and delicious cat fight to begin with. Tamsin knew she didn't have a choice so if she screwed up the potion then she made things alot harder for herself. She had already decided that she was going to go through with it no matter what so why intentionally screw up the potion? No I think that when it is all said and done either the potion did work but not how Tamsin thought it would. Remember she never used the potion before because she asked Acacia how it worked and what it was suppose to do. That tells me that she had no idea how the potion worked and apparently neither did Acacia. The second theory that Bo doesn't love and trust as much as she claims seems to be the best theory going IMO. It is absoluety the most logical of all theories, and the most easily to explain. I think it's possible that Bo does love Dyson more than Lauren, even if it's only by a little bit more. She sure as hell trusts Dyson way more than Lauren. @LindaL your theory that the potion may have binded Tamsin to Bo is very intriguing I must say. I know all the Tamsin fans will love to hear that because it may mean that as long as Bo is alive and on the show then so is Tamsin. If you are right then Tamsin is a permanent fixture on the show, and not just someone who is on for a season or two and is killed off. Tamsin has been a great addition to the show. Whether she is destined to be a friend, sister, or lover remains to be seen? @ Isbloom Tamsin's reluctance from the start pretty much tipped off the Wanderer that she had switched sides and become disloyal. He probably sent Acacia anyways to try and get her to change her mind. I still for the life of me want to know why he didn't just do it himself. If he couldn't do it himself then the potion must have been the catalyst for his ability to do the job himself. Perhaps the potion did work after all. All he needed was have someone release it in Bo's presence? I suppose that would shot down the Bo doesn't love and trust the way she claims theory though? I think that we all can agree that his intentions are not to kill Bo, and Bo is certainly not going to spend all season 4 locked up in the Wanderer's lair. My guess is he has only good intentions towards Bo, or that Bo is simply to power for anything that he has in mind. If Bo is extremely way more powerful than she has demonstrated thus far, then its safe to say that she doesn't have to do anything that daddy says.
TheGardner
394. Char
@DartFaedar---I am not a fan of that fight scene. It felt so contrived to me. Fight it Tamsin and I cant Bo. Give me a break! And the horrible fighting between the ladies. I didnt know Bo could fight so well. Tamsin has been to war so many times and was defeated by Bo. The same Bo who got her but kicked by the monster in Delinquents.

Resurrection power means that Bo can kill someone or bring them back to life. So why does it matter if Tamsin is at the end of her life cycle? Bo should have been able to bring her back. An whenever Bo uses her resurrection power, her voice gets all crazy and she looks different than when she uses her chi. Which is why I believe that Bo was using her chi instead of her resurrection.

Bo and daddy have some talkin to do. And I don't mean the Lauren or te Trick way of communicating. I mean, the Dyson or Kenzi talk where the answers may hurt but at least it is honest.

@UberFaenatic---Absolutely agree that Lauren an Bo had their chances for a relationship. It didnt work. Time to move on. Dyson and Bo never had a chance to move in thier relationship and it would be awesome that it happens during season 4. It will not happen. It will be in the series finale, 150 yeas in the future, Bo goes looking for Dyson and asks him to marry her.
TheGardner
395. Char
@Isbloom--The hand of Acacia motivated Tansin because she got the potion and use it on Bo. Daddy knows his daughter very well. He knows that his daughter is extremely charismatic and many fall under her succubus spell. Tamsin was no exception. I just dot understand why a potion? Of all things to use was a potion? Daddy can enter her Dawning, her life in Earth and a potion was used to tame a succubus. Lame. Which is why, I don't think the potion was meant to work. All of this was for Tamsin. Bo in the season finale at the Dal was tired of the games. She got pissed off and wanted some answers. Daddy delivered.
TheGardner
396. Char
@LindaL---Aife has no right to talk about Trick especially when Aife disguised herself as Saskia to Bo. Thanks mom for pretending to be someone that you are not. And Trick gave his daughter to the dark Fae. I don't think it was easy for him to do it. But rules are rules. Those 2 are more alike than they realize. Everything shrouded in deception and trickery.
Annie Moore
397. drusilla_doll
I think the Wanderer's intentions regarding Bo are technically evil (by our standards) but sort of understandable. The impression I get from what we've seen so far is that he's an entity who's very powerful and greatly feared among the Fae. He appears to have been waiting for/wanting an offspring like Bo for many years, possibly centuries. I think it's fairly logical to think that he's been trying (and failing up till now) for a worthy heir/successor. Someone he can groom to rule by his side and eventually take over. Perhaps up until now, all of his attempts at powerful sons and daughters have been disappointments.

I'm anticipating him trying to woo his daughter to his side. To offer to show her what she's capable of. All that talk of bridling the masses is going to become an issue again, I think. Mind you, she rejected Aoife's offer of joint world domination in season one which was essentially the same. Who knows, though, maybe this time she will be more easily seduced into claiming her 'birthright'.
TheGardner
398. whiskeywhite
Darn job has been cutting into my LG time again. I've got a lot of catching up to do, so pardon me if I harken back quite a way.

Laugh out loud award of the day -- @DarthFaeder's "Bite your fingers!" (Being slow of brain it took me a couple of seconds to get it.) Honourable mention goes to @UberFaenatic" "I'll do my fae-ry best ...". I love the word play on "fae" that many here pull off.

Speaking of how "duh" I can be, I was rewatching "Delinquents" for the umpteenth time which ends which Kenzi protesting to Bo, "But you haven't told me about the kiss yet!" Can you believe that I have been thinking all this time that she meant the kiss between Bo and Tamsin in Brazenwood rather than Dyson's kissing Bo in the Dawning (which of course Bo would have told her about)?

Which brings me to @UberFaenatic's question about Dyson and the Dawning, "I still do not get why she had to kill (Dyson) in order to evolve. Unless that's the point...she had to let go of him in order to be who she's meant to be?" (341) We saw something similar once before, when Bo stabs Dyson in "Scream a Little Dream". In Bo's dream, he tries to entice her to stay in the dream world where they can be together forever. She desperately wants this since she's still reeling from losing him, but she knows she has to let him go and carry on with her life. So she literally kills her dream.

But I'm not sure that's what happening in the Dawning (or maybe I don't want to believe it). I know I'm being a terrible literalist, but she does come to the realization that "the key is in my hand" and lo and behold the key eventually appears from the bloody gut of her "hand" (Dyson), not that we see that happen. It's just suddenly there in her real hand, covered in his blood.

She doesn't of course give him up. Putting herself in great personal danger, she finds a way to take him with her out of the Dawning. Is the message of her stabbing him more 1) his great personal sacrifice (again!) for her, and 2) her deep trust in him ("it's not real, trust me")? Sigh, who knows?
TheGardner
399. whiskeywhite
Oops, I should have included this above while I was still on the subject of Dyson. @drusilla_doll, you refer to Bo going back to her relationship with Dyson as being more "risky" than going back to Lauren. (342) Risky how?

I belatedly but still whole heartedly agree with @UberFaenatic that Kiersten's analysis of the Dawning (340) is the best I've seen, which Kiersten then follows up with an excellent exploration of the relationship between Tamsin and Bo. (345)

Kiersten's explanation about the truncation of the season was very helpful re: Tamsin and I think it also helps us understand why, as @drusilla_doll observes, "Dyson has grown to trust and accept (Tamsin) as one of his friends" (350). I have always found his transition from open antagonism to Tamsin to committed friend ("we'll get through it together") too quick. The speeded up season could explain it.

I, like @drusilla_doll, loved how conflicted Tamsin became. She becomes much more sympathetic at that point. Similarly, I much preferred Vex when he became conflicted about his bad deeds, as opposed to just being a "comical villain" as @stacymed2 observed in "Holding out through the hiatus" postings. It gives him depth and complexity. I hope he doesn't go back to simple villainness.

I think it's clear, and several have laid out the evidence, that the potion was meant to make Bo more controllable, more "tame", so that Tamsin could capture her and turn her over as bounty. @LindaL's idea that it was supposed to bind Tamsin to Bo is intriguing, but it has been repeatedly demonstrated that our contributors here can be considerably more clever than the writers. I find @UberFaenatic's idea persuasive that it didn't work because Kenzi will betray Bo in the future (358) (perhaps unwittingly, or without understanding the full implications of her actions -- she has already blurted out to The Morrigan the valuable intel that Bo can chi suck a number of people at once).
TheGardner
400. whiskeywhite
@stacymd2 -- I'm delighted to meet another fellow Queer as Folk fan here (with @Char). I really recommend it to people who haven't seen it -- go to your local video store (if any still exist :-)) or look for re-runs (it's re-running right now on Out TV here in Canada). Because I agree very enthusiastically with @stacymd2 that it was more progressive in sexual matters 10 years ago than LG is today.

Excellent observation that Brian and Bo are both "self-centered, immature, devoted to their loyal BFF and will do anything for their loved ones." Debbie (a character played by the wonderful Sharon Gless) observes that he has a huge heart (despite the "I don't give a sh*t about anything except making money" air he adopts). Like Bo, he always comes through in the end for his friends and for the gay struggle, though he often does it secretly. For Bo, I guess it's the 'fae struggle'.
TheGardner
401. whiskeywhite
Re: whether Aife was warning Bo about Trick or asking her to look after him: I noticed the two possible meanings. I'm not decided, but we did see that moment in the staircase at the end of season 1 when Aife switched from trying to kill Bo to speaking to her quite lovingly and being concerned about her welfare becasue of Trick's blood writing intervention. So, as @LindaL argues, Aife is capable of thinking kindly about Trick, I think.

I, too, thought that Tamsin almost taunting or goading Lauren by telling her about the kiss was odd and without a lot of apparent reason. So I agree with the argument that, as @lsbloom says, "The writers needed someone to tell Lauren and that was a good dramatic moment for it."

Zoie Palmer said recently that we are going to learn more about Lauren's background in season 4, including the whole Karen Beattie business. I would like to point out again that while this has been interpreted as some kind of terrorist activity, if you look carefully at the 'wanted poster' which Taft showed her (and I took out a magnifying glass to do so), all she was charged with is helping to organize protests about restrictions on scientific research. I was at a "Save our Science" rally just the other day on the front steps of my university, organized by scientists protesting the government cutbacks to research and the muzzling of scientists. I did a small part in organizing and in fact, I was in the front row holding a protest sign. I guess that makes me a dangerous terrorist too.

Now, I wonder if the writers are having a bit of fun with us. They know that the vast majority of people would not actually read the wanted poster, which flashes by very quickly. So did they deliberately make the charges so innocuous in contrast with the all the hype in the plot (hiding out in the Amazon, etc. Or maybe she was hiding out at Amazon.com) as an in-joke? Or is it going to turn out that Karen was unfairly charged?

I pre-ordered my copy of the season 3 Blu-ray today. I hate to pay the money, but I want to see the detail now that I have a new TV. On a related note, KHR has said that season 4 has some gorgeous sets.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
402. Kiersten
I actually paused the feed and read the poster when it first showed up and couldn't figure out why she'd be arrested or have a wanted poster/be a fugitive for protesting. None of it tracks. I think the whole thing was totally random and, as usual, the one thing they did know was that they didn't want to commite DL to being a criminal in any way that they could not walk back from but did want to give her more of an edge & a final nail for finally trusting/going with Taft. They know they can never do anything extreme with DL b/c of the rabid fanbase but keep wanting (I think) to push her in that direction if only to make her more ambiguous and until they commit to it and let her become a fully-rounded, complex, and potentially hard-to-redeem character, we're probably going to keep getting inconclusive things like this Karen Beattie
TheGardner
403. Char
Karen or Lauren. She is still shifty in my eyes. If it was a simple protest, why change the name to Lauren? Why go through such an extreme and change an indenty if it was a simple protest? Why not go through life as Karen the harmless protestor? But no, harmless protestor Karen had to change her identity because she had to enter the FBI witness protection plan, changed her name to Lauren, and then was told that her protector was Madea, Mad Genius Protector. Far fetch and ridiculous. The esteem treatment that Dr Lauren receives just makes me like her even less. Her cog does not fit in the wheel, so keep pushing Lauren to have more stories that doesn't match up with Lost Girl. Season 4 specualtion: Lauren is on the lamb yet again, Bo finds her and Lauren tells Bo that she was picketing and protesting unfair regulations on scientists and was deemed a terrorist. So she tells Bo that she is sorry that she wasnt truthful yet again and to forgive her. Bo does. Yuuuuucccckkkkkk. And then we will find out that Lauren is not even a doctor. But she did her faery best in community college.

I don't see Lost Girl in Season 3 to be a sexual progressive show. I found it be tame. And when did Bo use her succubus powers in Season 3? Not even in her dawning?
TheGardner
404. whiskeywhite
@Char, you're funny: Lauren "did her faery best in community college."

Kiersten, your explanation works the best for me. I'm not really up for Lauren becoming a big evil type, but then I'm a Pollyanna who isn't up for anybody being really evil. I do wish The Morrigan had more depth to her character. Would love to see more than snarky putdowns (I love "little Bo bleep" every time I hear it) and fabulous dresses (although they definitely have to keep the fabulous dresses).

Must do job.
D K
405. DarthFaeder
@Char I agree it does seem as if they toned down the sexual activity between Bo and whomever. I think that they only had 2 obvious sexual encounters between Bo, Lauren, and Dyson. One with Bo and Lauren and one with Bo and Dyson. Of course I don't really care because that is not why I watch the show but I did notice. @Kiersten I'd love to see Lauren somewhere down the line get sick of the Fae and really and truely turn on them. I think she'd make an awesome nemisis for Bo and the Fae world. @Whiskey I don't think we will ever know the motivation for why Tamsin told Lauren about the kiss. I do know that the writers had Bo tell Lauren about the sex between her and Dyson, so why didn't they have Bo tell Lauren about the Brazenwood kiss?
Annie Moore
406. drusilla_doll
@Whiskeywhite: I wasn't quite sure what I meant about 'risky' either and had to go back and reread what I'd written.

I think I was talking about the idea of taking another chance with Dyson after all of the heartache, jackholishness and disappointment of when he'd broken up with her in S2. Logically Bo knows it wasn't his fault his love for her was cruelly taken away from him, but he still left some pretty bad emotional scars, he broke her heart badly, with no long term honeymoon phase of committed togetherness to offset that damage. They never truly got their chance to explore being a couple; they were robbed of that. What if they couldn't recapture what they'd had? Was love really enough?

Hence it was, in some ways, more 'risky' for her to drop what she (at that stage) thought was a faily stable, committed relationship (regardless of DL's unhappiness/insecurity which we the audience were more privy to) than to jump head-first into another round of wolf-loving.

First cut is the deepest, after all...

;)

I was trying to look at things from Bo's perspective, rather than the audience's, if that makes sense.
Linda Losik
407. LindaL
@drusilla_doll: Interesting theory but I am afraid that I don't see it that way; I did and do see it as pandering to the extremely loudly vocal Doccubus group. Any consideration of Dyson is met with (at best) scorn. I could see it as Bo giving Lauren a chance because 1) she doesn’t know that Dyson has his love back and 2) wanted a relationship with someone she (at the very least) admired.

Bo’s feelings for Dyson have been demonstrated multiple times including bringing him back to life after their shared experience in the dawning. But Dyson definitely was clear that no matter what or who she loved, he loved her and would always have her back. The same cannot be said of any of DL’s two known lovers. She had neither lovers' back.
Annie Moore
408. drusilla_doll
Oh, I am sure that a lot of us here have our views on whether Bo should have dropped Lauren like a hot potato as soon as Dyson declared he still loved her. But I do think it's understandable for her to be overwhelmed in finding out a) that Dyson has his love for her back, and b) didn't tell her about it. Remember how mad and confused she was about him not telling her.

I personally loved that she didn't just go 'well, buddy, you may love me again, but I don't love you - that ship has sailed.'

For better or worse, the writers have chosen to show (perhaps even more than tell) that Bo still has deep feelings for Dyson, loves the wolf to pieces even when he's infuriating her. All the while, still pandering to the doccubus fans by having Bo choose to stay with Lauren despite their growing estrangement/emotional disconnect.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
409. Kiersten
I've said it before, I, for one, am VERY glad Bo did NOT drop DL and go right back to Dyson the moment she learned his love had returned. That would make her a crap hero for sure and a crappier partner. I appreciate that the show has made it clear she absolutely still loves him very much, but there's a lot there that has yet to heal between them and it would have been made worse if DL hung between them b/c Bo left her b/c of Dyson. While I loathed doccutopia and absolutely agree the entire S3 was one long fan pander where that's concerned, Anna and Zoie did show a very real, organic relationship, if one that ultimately doesn't/didn't work. It's failure is solely based on Bo and Doctor Lauren's ultimate incompatibility, regardless of their feelings for each other, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Dyson. Which means, should Bo and Dyson get back together at some point (THEY'D BETTER), it'll be about them and likewise, not have anything to do with DL.
TheGardner
410. whiskeywhite
Kiersten. Yup. What you said. Exactly.
Annie Moore
411. drusilla_doll
That's why I loved her not dropping DL. Because it meant that any issues they had in that relationship were not due to any interference on Dyson's part. He was able to remain removed from blame when doccubus finally and inevitably imploded on its own.
D K
413. DarthFaeder
I agree as well Bo would have come off looking like a total douche had she dropped Lauren to go back to Dyson. I definately would have lost alot of respect for her. I like that Dyson is willing to bide his time and not interfere with Bo and Lauren's relationship as toxic as it is. BTW has anyone seen that Linda Hamilton will be joining LG at least for one more episode in season 4 ? Damn I was stoked to read that. I wonder if she'll have a hook where her hand used to be? Maybe she'll have an eye patch as well? As far as we know she doesn't need an eye patch, but she'd look soooooooooooo cool with one. Damn I love that women she is to so freaking awesome!
TheGardner
414. whiskeywhite
Yes, I'm glad Linda Hamilton will be back. I hope they make more use of her this time (though I guess her return is the "more use").

A propos of nothing, I have discovered (well, started watching) "Firefly" on Netflix. A new addiction -- albeit short lived with only 22 episodes. I love that the smartest warrior on the ship is a black woman and a gorgeous one too (I want to bite Gina Torres' lips right through the computer screen). Observations anyone? Any Josh Whedon-type (or any other) parallels with LG? I have already noticed the 'will they or won't they get together' relationship between Mal and Inara which is, as has often been noted, the opposite of LG (except for 'will Bo and Dyson get back together?' Sigh).
Kiersten Hallie Krum
415. Kiersten
I have mad love for Whedon and adore Firefly and its wrap up movie, Serenity. Enjoy the journey
Annie Moore
416. drusilla_doll
I fell in love with Firefly on the first watch. It was criminal that it was only 15 episodes long, with some unaired and broadcast out of order. Shame on the studio execs for not recognising a pearl among swine.

I count myself as a Browncoat for life and I'm not ashamed to say that my son's name is Malcolm (partly for the lead character in Firefly, partly because I wanted a nice strong scottish name).

Wash and Zoe complement each other so well. It was refreshing to see an already established couple being normal and stable, for once, on TV. But with the occasional hiccup which felt organic and not forced.

Shindig is a great ep for Mal and Inara shippiness. I didn't mind the will they, won't they, since it was first season. If it had dragged on over several more? Well, then I might have gotten tired of it.
TheGardner
417. Char
@DarthFaeder---I too love Linda Hamilton as an actor. I also loved her as Acacia. But she was there in Lost Girl for like 5 minutes. It is pretty crazy that you use Sarah Connor from the Terminator for nothing. It would be great if Arnokd Schwazzeneger was on Lost Girl too as a pet to Acacia.

I adore Buffy, Firefly, Serenity, Angel, Dollhouse. He gets it. He knows how to have a kick a$$ female and male characters working together. He also knows how to work with same sex couples. I love Willow and it broke my heart when Tara died. I was crying inside.

Gina Torres is amazing. She is gorgeous. You can also see her in Suits on USA.
TheGardner
418. whiskeywhite
I, too, was hooked on Firefly from the first episode. But yes, only 14 episodes, not 22 (wishful thinking there). I have Angel lined up to watch as well. But geez, I need to do something in life besides watch old TV series (on the other hand, if I consider how much time I spend re-watching LG ...). I'll look for Serenity.
TheGardner
419. Char
Why are Bo and Lauren such a great couple? If it is only because they have great on screen chemistry (which I don't see) then that is not enough to be categorized a a great TV couple. There needs to be more. And Karen doesn't count.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
420. Kiersten
Bo and Lauren are a "great couple" because they are the first lesbian couple to be the primary love relationship on a mainstream/genre show (as far as I know. I absolutely could be wrong about that). That's it. That's the entire reason.

Switch the genders of Dyson and Doctor Lauren and watch how fast the fan base flees doccubus. Or even if DL was a man and this was a M/F/M triangle (without altering Bo's bi-sexual nature). Either way, then the relationship could/would stand or fall on its on rather than what it symoblizes, and many, many more viewers would admit what a lousy, toxic relationship doccubus truly is.

But then, that's just my opinion...
TheGardner
421. Char
Crazy busy at work but....

Lost Girl amasses 1.6 million viewers (on a good day). That's not reaching 1% of the population. However, I state this time and time again, if the roles were reversed, Lauren wolf would be revered (by me too) and Dr Dyson would have been hated. The gender reversal just bored me. Everything needs to be equal.
Linda Losik
422. LindaL
@Char: and this is why I don't understand the worship at the altar of DL. This is not even a mainstream show; season three really reduced the amount of viewers because, IMHO, of the blatant pandering to the Doccubus. Why I don’t know and really don’t care.

Loved Firefly! One of the great joys of a Joss Whedon production is the portrayal of strong female characters not one of which whines or acts like she doesn't know what she spine is for; River is a perfect example! She may be a bit loony tunes but that girl can kick major butt!!!
TheGardner
423. stacymd2
Hi All. I love reading the new comments. Lost Girl Season 4 is only six weeks away for some of you. Ugh! I’m so mad at SyFy. Have they posted any new trailers?

@whiskeywhite; @Kiersten & @Char: I’m sure Lauren will be whitewashed in Season 4. The “Karen thing” was created to give the character an “edge”, but nothing to make her remotely criminal. I agree that it will turn out to be a misunderstanding where Lauren/Karen got into a bad situation through no fault of her own. We’ll find out Lauren is even more of a tragic, super smart, heroic damsel, MD than we ever could imagine. I don’t understand why a major, government security agency would put out a warning for a mere protestor or why anyone would have to go into hiding & change their name just for protesting for scientific funding/freedom. I don’t think Lost Girl’s Powers That Be will never make Lauren “a fully-rounded, complex, and potentially hard-to-redeem character“. They will never do to her what they did to Dyson in Season 2, where they brought him to the line of unlike ability, then reeled him back in.

I’ve already been preparing myself for full-fledged Action-Genius-Wonder Lauren, MD in Season 4. I should be ready by 2014.

@DarthFaeder: What great news about Linda Hamilton returning to Lost Girl in Season 4. She is so awesome. I hope her return is included in an episode with Tamsin’s backstory. Has there been any news about the actress hired to play a young Tamsin?

I like the idea of Acacia with an eye patch, but no hook. Her new arm could be a terminator like metal prosthetic that turns into a gun. How sweet would that be?

@whiskeywhite: I was a later comer to Firefly as well. Definitely check out Serenity. Joss Whedon’s shows take time to build an audience. I liked Dollhouse and was disappointed when it was canceled. These days shows are not given time to build an audience. I never understood why SyFy or another network didn’t pick up Firefly or Dollhouse. Both shows would have had a built in audience that was much larger than anything airing on cable at that time.

@drusilla_doll: I so agree about Zoe and Wash. Gina Torres is amazing. Did you know she is married to Laurence Fishburne? Can you imagine Zoe and Morpheus together? That would be one intense couple. I was watching BBC America the other day and they showed A Knight’s Tale which has Alan Tudyk in it. When I saw him I was like, OMG, Wash!

@Kiersten: I think it is either Ellen’s character on her show Ellen or All My Children’s Bianca were the first shows to have a lesbian main character or a F/F relationship on mainstream TV. I think Buffy’s Willow and Tara were the first on a genre program. I could be totally wrong about this…Wasn’t there a lesbian on Party of Five & ER? I didn’t watch those shows so I’m not sure. I do give Lost Girl mad props if they are the first. It took guts to make Bo bisexual and to show both F/M and F/F relationships. It is sad that Bo/Lauren are so awful together.

@Char: I agree. It’s hard to think of Lost Girl as a “mainstream” program when it airs on SyFy in the US. It might be a mainstream program in Canada.

@LindaL: Joss Whedon does create strong and complex female characters. I’m so glad that he is working with Marvel. Maybe someday we can get a female lead superhero movie. I just wish it was Wonder Woman and not a Marvel superhero.

Speaking of Whedon, did anyone catch Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.? I liked it. I’ll certainly tune in next week. My only complaint is that it airs at 8p. S.H.I.E.L.D. should be a 9p or 10p show.

I hope that KS gets the Star Wars role. It is so difficult to break through in Hollywood. I have a friend who tried for years. She gave up and went to law school. I was reading a KHR interview and he almost gave up on acting too, but then he got the role in The Tudors. (I think it was Tudors it may be another role.)

I really hope Lost Girl does not “go there” with Dyson and Kenzi. It would ruin their dynamic. The best part of their relationship is that it is a pure, caring friendship; there is no lame sexual tension.

Also, hooray for more KC Collins in Season 4! I hope Hale gets a backstory along with Dyson, Trick, Tamsin and Kenzi.
Carmen Pinzon
424. bungluna
@stacymd2 - you are operating under the mistaken assumption the SyFy channel is about sci-fi; it's actually about Sharknados!

It is sad that a lot of promising shows have to either jump the shark early on or be cancelled. I enjoy watching foreign shows because there's more of a chance that they will develop organically.
TheGardner
425. whiskeywhite
OK, so I need to add Dollhouse to my watching list. I was wondering, but I will certainly take the advice of this group. Serenity is winging its way to me from Amazon.ca as we speak (there were so many options! Talk about a lasting audience). Together with all the seasons of the first Beauty and the Beast (I hope I'm not disappointed. I have such fond memories. But I'll certainly get my Linda Hamilton fix).

Interesting info., @stacymd2, that Gina Torres is married to Laurence Fishburne. Lucky him (he strikes me personally as a bit pompous, but he is a good actor). I agree about the pleasure of seeing a happily married couple -- definitely unusual for a scifi movie/series I would think (though you folks are the experts). And it's interesting that Wash is not much of a fighter while Zoe is the warrior -- an unusual combo for a decade ago I would think.

I find all of the characters appealing, even the dumba$$ Jayne. Kaylee is so sweet and naive, quite childlike, yet amazing with mechanics, another gender role-challenging character -- a forerunner, it seems to me of the women computer geek charcters we see now (Criminal Minds, Arrow) though again I defer to the experts. And how about that Morena Baccarin! Not my type, but vavavoom! Inara's not only smart but also challenges ideas about what constitutes acceptable sexual activity. No romantic monogamy for that girl (do we ever see her in a major personal relationship?). And she's making choices about her sexual lifestyle, not acting oh-so-safely out of biological need, like Bo (as @stacymd2 argues above).

I love that the characters regularly break into Mandarin Chinese (I assume the dialogue is authentic, does anyone know? I once had a Russian friend listen to Kenzi's Russian and she certified it :-) ).

Last comment about Queer as Folk. I had forgotten (probably repressed it) that at one point Brian and Justin decide to get married. But each realizes that the other is changing themselves too much to try to meet what they perceive as the other's needs. (One can hear Dyson's lecture to Bo about trying to change one's partner). Brian tries to be the mushy, monogamous romantic for Justin (Justin is horrified becasue he loves the sexually wild Brian) and Brian realizes that Justin is giving up his dream of becoming an artist to stay with him. They call off the wedding and Justin goes to art school in New York, leaving Brian behind in Pittsburgh, an aging 'fag' dancing alone at the nightclub (sniff).

The issue of sexuality and aging will conveniently not be confronted in LG, unless the series runs long enough (fat chance) for Lauren to age. Bo and Dyson will just go on, beautiful and young forever, the modern dream.

LG is not mainstream in Canada either, although Showcase is a widely available cable channel. I'm often struck by how few people have heard of it. I asked my class the other day -- 40 young people and only one had heard of it, and evidence suggests that she's a lesbian.
D K
426. DarthFaeder
Hello Stacymd it seems that Eliana Jones will be in episode 1 or 2 most likely 2. It also seems that Valkyries will be heavy in episode 2. Alot of blondes were cast to be on episodes 1 and or 2 but I am thinking 2. A
women by the name of Dahla Mckenna is credited as being an education supervisor in I think episode 2. Some people speculation she is there because of Eliana Jones who plays teenage Tamsin. Miss Jones is only 15 years old so I think they have to have a education supervisor there for her. Btw RS has already said in an interview that Tamsin is going to have a backstory and that backstory will explain her connection to Bo. Trick and Dyson will also have a backstory explaining their long time relationship. I am guessing there will be quite a few backstories on multiple characters cuz the fans have been screaming for more backstories. Hope that helps your curiousity. There is alot of info out there about season 4 but you'll have to do some digging. :)
Pandra Selivanov
428. Zanza
Bo and Lauren are a "great couple" because they are the first lesbian couple to be the primary love relationship on a mainstream/genre show (as far as I know. I absolutely could be wrong about that). That's it. That's the entire reason.
@Kiersten, I have read this reason on other forums and I hope you will answer my question. Why don't Willow and Tara count? They were the first mainstream lesbian couple on primetime, they were together way longer than Bo and Lauren, their relationship only ended with Tara's death. Willow was one of the four main characters on Buffy, so her three season relationship with Tara seems to me to qualify as a primary love relationship. Willow and Tara were also pioneers in showing a lesbian couple as a regular couple-it wasn't about the gayness, it was about a loving couple. In addtition, I find on Googling "fictional lesbian couples" that only Della and her girlfriend Binnie Roberts on Eastenders precede Willow and Tara as a lesbian couple. They were an attempt to show homosexual characters in a positive light, and their kiss got a lot of attention, but Willow and Tara were primetime mainstream and very long in duration. Am I missing something?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
429. Kiersten
@Zanza - keep in mind that I'm going totally by hearsay from what very little I've heard or read regarding this, and really know next to nothing about anything. That said, it's my understanding that Tara & Willow, while wonderful and important, don't merit the same standing because Willow wasn't the star/hero of the show.

If Buffy had been given a girlfriend (and she actually did have a lesbian hookup in the comics that followed the finale of the show), that wouldve been equivalent to Bo and Doctor Lauren. Tara was a primary relationship for Willow but Willow was not the primary character of the show and so it is still a secondary character having the F/F relationship, not the lead.

The argument, I believe, is that shows have never taken the step (and I don't know why Ellen doesnt wiegh in here but then I never watched that show) to have the lead/hero be a lesbian in a committed relationship, it's always the best friend or sister/brother or something. LG is reportedly "groundbreaking" b/c Bo is the lead and she's openly & unjugmentally bi-sexual. Though that is another complaint I've heard that, as progressive as LG and the doccubus relationship is, the show still "hedges its bets" by not fully committing to it as Dyson has men have not been completely shuffled off the show as romantic options just because Bo and Doctor Lauren hooked up.

Of course, now there's The Fosters on ABCFamily Channel where the entire show is about a lesbian couple who foster kids, but again, I don't watch that show and don't know anything else about it.
Pandra Selivanov
430. Zanza
Ah. Thank you, Kiersten. I would have to say then that I totally disagree with the idea that because Willow wasn't the "star" of the show, she and Tara don't have the same standing as Bo and Lauren. One of my reasons for feeling this way is that the four main characters were equal in importance. True, Buffy was the titular character and the protagonist. However, she wasn't more developed than the other three, Xander, Willow, and Giles. These characters were fully developed, with as much backstory as Buffy. They had their own special episodes and story arcs. Willow was also Buffy's best friend, she was as powerful as Buffy, and she became one of the gravest threats Buffy ever faced, as well as one of Buffy's strongest allies.

I would also say Willow and Tara far outweigh Bo and Lauren just on the grounds of a healthy relationship. There's nothing special, to my mind, in showing a horrible dysfunctional toxic relationship. Law & Order, in all its incarnations, made a meal of such relationships for decades. There were movies of the week and soap opera arcs and even movies with big stars like Audrey Hepburn and Deborah Kerr. Misery among LGBT characters is nothing new, or groundbreaking, or even that interesting. Willow and Tara were interesting because they were the first lesbians to have a long-term, healthy relationship. They had rough spots and even broke up once, but got back together.

So on those two grounds-Willow was equal in importance to Buffy and Willow and Tara had a longterm healthy relationship, I consider them to be of vastly more significance than Bo and Lauren. The only place where Bo and Lauren come out on top, so to speak, is in the graphic sex department. And I don't consider that of any significance at all, considering it's a show about a succubus and there's all kinds of graphic sex going on. I would also say, I really MUST say, in the interest of full disclosure, that I have always resented the effort to downplay Willow and Tara. I'm as straight as an arrow, but I loved Willow and Tara. I just loved them and I'm still mad at Joss for killing Tara. And I regard the attempt to pull Willow and Tara down as just one more ploy by Doccubus to make Bo and Lauren seem more important than they are. They are a failed relationship. Nothing special there.
TheGardner
431. whiskeywhite
In addition to what @Zanza and Kiersten are arguing, I wonder if one of the key differences among Ellen, Buffy and LG in terms of the lesbian relationship, and its contribution to the popularity of the show, is the degree to which physical sexuality between two women was portrayed explicitly? There are several quite explicit sex scenes between Bo and Lauren in seasons 1 &3, a tiny bit less explicit perhaps than those between Bo and Dyson and (especially) Ciara and Dyson, but the latter two, being M/F would be considered less risky (and risqué).
Kiersten Hallie Krum
432. Kiersten
Again, @Zanza, I could be way off base and, of course, am repeating only things I've heard/read (hence the hearsay disclaimer) and not expressing my opinion on the matter. I adored Tara and thought her death a nasty trick done by Joss specifically to advance the Dark Willow plotline. They deserved better
Katherine Bloom
433. lsbloom
I loved Willow, but as a Seth Green fan I liked Oz. Tara was too mousy and judgy for me. I think that is part of the reason for the downplay. BTVS played on the connection between wicca and lesbianism, and Willow started out liking boys. Nevertheless, they did have a much healthier relationship than Bo/Lauren. And it was super sad and shocking when they killed Tara and Willow went evil. While Willow and Xander were the heart of the show, they weren't the heroes--important yes, but not the hero. Strangly enough, and old episode of Friends was on and I'd forgotten that Ross' first wife was a lesbian. I watched Ellen, but I don't remember her having a stable committed relationship (but what sitcom does). I just don't rember Willow being such a big deal then, but I wasn't social cause engaged in high school. Cause around the same time as BTVS was Jack on Dawson's Creek coming out. We just didn't really care--well I missed Oz and was sad, but whatever, Willow flayed people.

Pretty Little Liars on ABC Family has a lesbian as one of the four main characters as well. I don't know if she is in a committed relationship though because I stopped watching with the crazy teacher/student relationship thing (and I thought the premise absurd). With all the "US is repressed and homophobic" hate that you find in the LG fandom, I have always thought it was interesting that so many pro-LGBT shows are on ABC Family. 'Cause, sure, that is our edgy, boundary-pushing network for 12-18 girls run by Disney.

PS. Firefly is the best.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
434. Kiersten
@lsbloom I adored Oz and hated that he was written off.

I too find it interesting that the more "progressive" shows with non-traditional couples are showing up on ABCFamily, an affiliate of the Mouse House.

"What does that make us?" "Big damn heroes, sir."
Pandra Selivanov
435. Zanza
Again, @Zanza, I could be way off base and, of course, am repeating only things I've heard/read (hence the hearsay disclaimer) and not expressing my opinion on the matter.
I understand that, Kiersten. I only asked your opinion because I knew you would give me a straight answer and that you have a better understanding of the Doccubi than I do. I don't understand them at all and you sometimes seem to know what is making them tick.
I adored Tara and thought her death a nasty trick done by Joss specifically to advance the Dark Willow plotline. They deserved better.
Well, yes and no. Tara's death was specifically to bring out Dark Willow, but as Joss said (and I believe him) if Willow had been with Oz instead of Tara, Oz would have been the one to die. Joss does play nasty tricks with beloved characters, but there had to be something major for Willow to crack up that badly. Short of Tara's death, and her death in such a manner, I don't think Dark Willow would have been plausible. Although I did adore Oz and I hated that he was written off. It took me a little while to warm up to Tara but I wound up liking her with Willow even more than Oz. Maybe it's a tribute to Alyson Hannigan? She's the only person in the world who can make a vampire fuzzy and the words "Band camp" a thing of terror. :D
TheGardner
436. Char
I am a huge fan of ABC Family. But I can't get into Pretty Little Liars, Fosters or Twisted because all of their characters never interested me. They seem one dimensional. I have never been to a high school with so much sheninagans. Where are the parents and the teachers? And the Fisters bored me. Next. I do love Switched at Birth, Baby Daddy, and Melissa and Joey.

Tara reminds me of Lauren. They are both mousy with no guts and glory. However, Willow grew on me. I loved how she cared about Willow the person, not just the witch. I loved how honest Willow and Tara were to each other. It was an honest relationship. I hate how Lauren is still knee deep in secrecy going on 4 years. Just tell me the truth. What is your damage and malfunction?

How about Captain Jack from Torchwood and Dr Who? He was a bisexual character. He was hotter than hot. He was able to be in a relationship with a guy. (I can't remember his name, my focus was on Captain Jack). He never shied away from who he was. And when the Doctor passed no judgement once he was introduced, it was a beautiful moment. You know people change in 5,10, and 100 years. It is normal. It is normal to love another race, sex, and species.

That is why I love Science Fiction. I want Lost Girl to delve into science fiction and to show the audience that one way isn't worse than another. Sometimes relationships fail and sometimes a relationship can succeed. Bo and Lauren showed that the relationship is doomed. It is time to let it go. It is time for Lauren to share her secrets and find someone who will treat her with the respect she deserves. I find this relationship to be harried, distrustful, and Boren. Why would any fan of Lost Girl want to see 2 people in a dysfunctional and damaging relationship? And it had better not be for the hero to be with her same sex. Pathetic.
TheGardner
437. Char
@Isbloom---Firefly is awesome. But Farscape is better. I loved Awryn, Crichton, and Scorpius. And there was no shame in inter species mating. It was about a man and his wormhole.

@LindaL-- Right! Lost Girl is not mainstream in USA. Shoot, A&E and AMC are more mainstream. Why all the pressure for Lost Girl to have the hero as a lesbian? Should I complain there are no minorities on the show either? What for? I don't care. Just write me a great show about Bo and her scooby do gang.

@stacymd2--and why is Lauren only seen as her sexual orientation. Isn't she a woman too with wants and needs? As a woman I applaud Lauren for leaving Bo. The clapping has ended. However, I deplore Lauren for who she really is a timid dr with Interpol attachments. Really!?? Does she like her martinis shaken or stirred?

@DarthFaeder--I hope we get everyone's backstory. And Lost Girl can show it in 13 seasons. My fingers and toes are crossed. And will the younger Tamsin replace the older Tamsin? Or will the younger a Tamsin age in 1 episode to the older Tamsin?

@Kiersten and Zanza---Buffy was the lead. So I can understand why "Williw and Tara" do not count. But they are still important. We saw two people fall madly for each other. And all their friends were ok with it. Now when Oz came back to town, he was crushed. But it wasnt meant to be. The werewolf and the witch. It would be awesome if ABC, CBS and the other networks introduce a gay and lesbian lead character. That would be mainstream. I mean think about it, Lost Girl season 1 could have made Bo a lesbian. But they didnt? Why not?

@whiskeywhite---what do you mean Lauren and Bo were less explicit than Dyson and Bo? Ciara and Dyson? I usually skip over all those scenes. They were pretty boring. But to me the scenes were the same. Alot of kissing, and suggestive sex. Dyson and Bo had some rough sex, make it hurt. But to me it was a different style of sex. The same goes for Ciara and Dysob. But explicit goes for all couples.
TheGardner
438. Char
I mean Tara, not Willow grew on me.
D K
439. DarthFaeder
@Char ewww that is a good question why the hell does it have to keep coming back to sexual orientation? I too think that if you are going to always bring that fact up then why no minorities very good question Char. Do people really need that much validation? Jeez just appreciate the show for the awesomeness that is LG for pete's sake!!!!! As far as the young Tamsin and Old Tamsin goes hmmmm I've spent way to much time trying to figure that one out. I think that most likely Tamsin will die be off the show for a couple of episodes then as they always do make us try to figure out what the hell happened off camera. Isn't that EA's Amo right???? Us the viewers have to decide what happened off camera with no explanation? If I was the producer I'd have Tamsin explain protocol to Dyson or Bo about the steps they are to take after her death. Perhaps I'd have Dyson and Bo escort Tamsin's body back to Norway to do a ceremony within some Nordic temple of sorts. After the ceremony I'd have Dyson and Bo return back home, then a couple of episodes later RS shows back up as fully grown Tamsin, and I'd let her tell Dyson and Bo what happened. I guess we are just going to have to wait and see how they handle it. I'm pretty sure that RS is the only person that people will accept as Tamsin you start messing around with casting and LG may be in for some trouble. As far as LG making Bo a Lesbian in season 1 would have painted themselves into a box. They made her be an unalined succubus cuz they wanted her to move freely between both the light and Dark. I suspect they made her Bisexual for the same reason to not put any limitations on her.
TheGardner
440. whiskeywhite
@Char, I did say "slightly" :-). And I have to admit that while I didn't fast forward through them, I haven't watched the Bo/Lauren sex scenes quite as closely as the Bo/Dyson, Ciara/Dyson scenes, so I couldn't do a scene-by-scene comparison. But as far as my memory goes, the Dyson scenes, especially those with Ciara, seem to have more full-body nakedness and pretty forthright depictions of intercourse (well beyond "suggestive" I would say) while the Bo/Lauren scenes tend to lean a bit more to fuzzy romantic views. I stand to be corrected, and it's only a small matter of degree.

My point was that I think it would be easier to get away with portraying M/F sex explicitly than F/F sex without bringing the network (or the TV ratings people) down on their heads. Just a hypothesis. My main point was to compare LG with Ellen and Buffy which I don't have the expertise to do. Again, a hypothesis. I'm arguing that the portrayal of those scenes in LG would be attractive to a lesbian audience, not just for the personal pleasure of the viewers, but for equity in representation reasons.

I disagree, however, that "Dyson and Bo had some rough sex, make it hurt." The only scene where that could possibly apply is in the opening scene of "Vexed" and even there the most that happens is that Bo gets pushed against a pillar. Now if you're talking about the number of times that Dyson gets slammed against a wall or other hard surface during Bo feeding or sex with others (Val, Ciara), then an argument can be made there for roughness in sex. I have argued before that one of the things I admire about how Dyson is portrayed in LG is that he is rarely if ever violent towards women, certainly not those with whom he has a personal relationship.

What do you mean by "minorities" @Char? If you mean people of colour, then I agree, and have written about previously, that the presence of people of colour fell off drastically after the second season. When LG started, it was virtually littered with black people in particular. They were everywhere. It was refreshing that you didn't have the standard single token black character -- in addition to Hale, there were a number of other major characters who were black -- the first Ash, Hale's father and sister, the Blackthorne, recurring characters such as Audrey the waitress, and lots of minor characters and extras. There were also a (smaller) number of other people of colour such as Donnie, whose husband's body was stolen, the gorgeous Samir, and others. What the heck happened in season 3?

P.S. -- you Buffy fans are enough to make me want to take another stab at watching the show.
TheGardner
441. whiskeywhite
Where did everyone go? Did I bore you all to death?

The ads for the return of LG are occurring more frequently on Showcase. But still the same lame, nothing new promo.
TheGardner
442. stacymd2
Hi Whiskeywhite. Not at all. I love your posts. I’ll make a longer comment when I get a chance later this week.

I read yesterday on a doccubus Facebook page that Kyle Schmid (Copper/Robert Morehouse) will guest on Lost Girl in S4. Does anyone know if this is true? Kyle is such a hottie. It’s like my fantasy casting is coming true. Bring onMichael Fassbender and James McAvoy Lost Girl. Make this happen universe!

Also, I am so sad that Copper was canceled. I will definitely miss it.

@whiskeywhite: You should give Buffy another try. If you have time…there are so many shows that I want to get into or watch again, but my TV schedule is so booked up as is.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
443. Kiersten
Yes, it's been confirmed that Kyle Schmidt will be in several episodes toward the end of season four along with Linda Hamilton.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
444. Kiersten
BTW - they started filming episode 12 on Monday morning, so they're in the home stretch!! Hopefully we'll get a proper promo trailer soon
TheGardner
445. stacymd2
@Kiersten: YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope Kyle and Kris have scenes together. I really hope Anna and Kyle have scenes together—shower scenes. Naked. Shower. Scenes.
My mind is exploding right now.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
446. Kiersten
@stacymd2 he and KC Collins are good friends IRL so there's a lot of fun meta to be mined there should they share the screen
TheGardner
447. stacymd2
@Kiersten: Wow, really? That is so cool. Now I want Kyle & KC scenes more than Kyle & Kris scenes. I still want Kyle & Anna scenes the most—scenes that hopefully involve a loofah.

I’m even more excited for S4 now.
TheGardner
448. Char
Life is crazy busy right now. Federal shutdown, Skeepy Hillow on Fox, Once Upon a Time on ABC, and Haven on syfy.

@whiskeywhite---Sex scenes are boring in cable. I prefer HBO and the other paid channels. You get to see more creativity with some limits. However Syfy has to lead you to make a decision. That's why some people see Lauren and Bo less explicit, others see Dyson and Bo less explicit. I just see people engaging in sex. There is no less or more explicit. However, Dyson has had more scenes with rough sex vs Lauren with sweetness.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
449. Kiersten
I've always thought the fierceness with which Bo and Dyson make love shows Bo's total trust in him. She's not afraid to let go, to be her true self with him. He's the first lover not to die from having sex with her and he's the first to show her that she can be stopped, that she can control her feeding rather than it control her. With Dyson, she can be uninhibited and unafraid and just let go and be Bo.

But when Bo and Doctor Lauren have sex, Bo has to be very, very careful. She doesn't feed on DL's chi as she does with Dyson and other Fae lovers. She feeds on the sexual energy they create, but since DL is a human, Bo doesn't feed on her chi. Bo is always aware, even in the throes of passion, that she could go too far and break the fragile human. So there's a lot more delicacy when she and DL are together because Bo can't let go, she can't truly be herself when she's with DL (in more ways than just sexually) because she can never, ever lose control when they're together.

As for being explicit, the simple fact is that it's easier to wrangle the boobs when there's one woman then when there's two. As KHR put it recently, when shooting a sex scene, it's basically the guy's job to cover up the woman's bits. But when both are women (and you're not a pay cable show) that's four breasts that require inventive coverage within the scene. And let's face it - pasties only go so far. It's logistical, not thematic.
Carmen Pinzon
450. bungluna
I spewed all over when I read this!

"...that's four breasts that require inventive coverage ..."
Annie Moore
451. drusilla_doll
@kiersten I hadn't heard the term 'wrangle the boobs' before and it made me chuckle. As for your assessment about the sex, I do think it's a huge difference between the two lovers. I do feel as if Bo is able to let go and push her sexual limits a lot more with Dyson. She clearly has an appetite, judging by Vexed and the scenes with the fury couple and so on. It does make me roll my eyes a little, however, when they go more for the soft-focus lens stuff with DL - at least they did in the beginning.

It's a hard fact that having sex with a human would be much more constraining for Bo, and as emotionally engaged as she might feel, there's always that fear of taking too much, losing control of herself and her passion. It may not have been obvious to some viewers, but to me it was why Bo starving herself of chi for DL's sake just seemed sad and misguided.
TheGardner
452. Char
@Kiersten---thanks for the info in regards to the sex scene. I usually fast forward. I'm sure I'm missing something. But it just doesn't entertain me like pay cable shows.

@whiskeywhite--I just wish this show would focus on the story. Yes everyone has an opinion. But..you (writers) can't listen to everyone and expect to make a good show. You have to go with what flows right and feels true to the Lost Girl brand. I also don't care that there aren't any minorities. I'm going to trust that the writers will get it together.
TheGardner
453. Char
@drusilla_doll---I don't want Bo in a relationship with a human. It's boring. I have seen the hero with a human. It has been done. If Dr Lauren was a Fae, ok not a problem. I want Bo with as many Fae as possible, before she ends up with Dyson.

I love the Fae. I love how they treat humans as cattle. It is a different perspective. Knowing there is a species evolved faster and stronger than humans is great. I picture the Dark Fae as Magneto's visionaries and the Light Fae as the X-Men. Loosely.
D K
454. DarthFaeder
Hey Kiersten I was wondering how you plan to tag spoilers for season 4.
Like for instance I have a very juicey tid bit that I have learned about involving one of the characters in episode 12, but some may want to know and others may not?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
455. Kiersten
@DarthFaeder - just mark it heavily as SPOILER DO NOT READ FARTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW STUFF ABOUT SEASON 4 and carry on.

I am intrigued!!!
Heather Waters (redline_)
456. redline_
@DarkFaeder -- As Kiersten said, please make sure to give lots of warning about spoilers. The mods here would actually even prefer that you change the color of anything spoiler-y to white text so that people can highlight to read spoilers like so:

spoilers spoiler spoilers
Kiersten Hallie Krum
457. Kiersten
Yes, what @redline_ said. Which is why we keep her around... ;)
Suzanne Metaxas
458. SuzyM
@DarthFaedar spoil away! I love getting advance infor :)
TheGardner
459. Char
@DarthFaeder---Spoil me. I deserve it.
TheGardner
460. whiskeywhite
Phew! You're all back. I feel much better (but I miss @TheGardner. I miss the fun of her calling Dyson a "jerk" and suggesting he move to Cleveland. But really, it was her sharp analysis. Sigh).

Speaking of pointed analysis, thanks Kiersten for the boob explanation. Makes sense.

I watched the Serenity movie. I actually didn't like it as much as the series, but I'll rewatch it. My sappy little romantic heart was happy that Mal and Inara seemed to be back on the road to love, although I was not happy that, according to Josh Whedon, he cut out a lot of scenes between them.

Speaking of racial minorities (there are lots of minorities, not all of them lacking in power -- rich people are, for instance, a minority), in rewatching season 2 I was reminded of the delightful travel agent, Peggie (Pragna Desai), and the Preta (Denis Akiyama), both in "Masks".

On the hunt for LG alumni on other shows, Vincent Walsh (The Ash), stars in a new cop show, "Played", which premiered tonight in Canada. Like LG, filmed in Toronto. It was odd hearing him speak in a plain old Canadian accent, although I suppose anything else would have "bean" strange. Since he's Irish born, I wonder what he sounds like when he's not in character. He, like KHR, is an alumnus of Degrassi -- on that show in 1989 he has a distinct Irish accent which can be heard here (although I'm sure he's capable of turning it off and on, like ZP's British accent in Sex After Kids). Hey, maybe Lauren/Karen will turn out to be MI6 posing as an American radical.

Bring on the spoiler @DarthFaedar!
Minime
461. Minime
Hello! Let the count down begin one more month till LG begins. I will agree with Char and Whiskey that season 3 was noticeably absent of any diversity. Kenzi didn't even speak Russian let alone anyone with skin tone darker then the Morrigan. Well with the exception of Sunethia. Season 1 and 2 gave us much more of a diverse world. I hope with the inclusion of George T that we will also see fae of many races this season.
Minime
461. Minime
Hello! Let the count down begin one more month till LG begins. I will agree with Char and Whiskey that season 3 was noticeably absent of any diversity. Kenzi didn't even speak Russian let alone anyone with skin tone darker then the Morrigan. Well with the exception of Sunethia. Season 1 and 2 gave us much more of a diverse world. I hope with the inclusion of George T that we will also see fae of many races this season.
D K
462. DarthFaeder
@Redline and Kiersten thanks for the info on the spoiler protocol. I'd like to suggest that as of Nov 10 2013 when showcase aires the premiere of Lost Girl that you add some kind of second thread or part of your website that people who want to talk season 4 and or any spoilers on season 4 can go to and talk without ruining it for others if you can. I have thumbed through alot of other catagories and threads of other shows and well it seems that Lost Girl is alot more active than most other shows here. If you Kiersten are able to figure out a way to view the LG shows starting Nov 10th 2013 before they are aired on syfy most likely the first week in Jan 2014, then you would be able to draw alot of people to your website to read your overview of each episode. I am sure with more viewers to your website that would make your advertisers very happy. Actually I do have a website that you can go to when showcase begins airing Nov 10th. The website is called
Justin TV. Just google that name. From what I understand you can create live viewing of a tv show over the internet. I don't know exactly how it works but I'd suggest if you are interested in being able to view LG live I assume threw someone watching showcase live, that you go to that site. Sorry I just don't know much about this technology but anyone interested can go to Justin TV and check out the website. I hope this helps someone?

Okay so why don't I just tell everyone how to find the website to go to in you want " To be in the know for season 4 spoilers ". To get season 4 spoilers goolge Rachel Skarsten Zeta. This will take you to a website call " The L chat " This is a lesbian website that talks not just about LG but I think any show that has lesbian content in them. Anyway once you are in " The L chat " look up at the top right corner on click on the
SEARCH thingy. Once you've done that you need to type Rachel Skarsten in the search terms box and hit search. You will come to a page that will talk about alot about what people know to be true and speculate about season 4. They give a blow by blow about twitter traffic and IMBd stuff. The piece together alot of time lines for each episode and which actors are on and off set. They don't mention barely anything about Zoie Palmer cuz I think she has a media black out. Rachel Skarsten seems to be willing to let everyone know some of the time when she is on and off set. As for Anna she doesn't show up till I think episode 2. KHR, KS seem to do alot of talking and are pretty much in every episode.

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW




Episode 12 almost certainly will have a funeral. I don't know who is going to get killed but KS tweeted a pic of her wearing a funeral veil.
The pic only shows part of her face with the veil. Also if you google
Lost Girl Zetaboards part 4 you will find a guy who I assume played an EXTRA on episode 12 who tweeted that he was at a funeral service on the lost girl set. When you go to the Lost Girl zeta part 4 then you will need to go to page 201 post # 7006. You will see the tweet there on that website. The guy has since deleted the tweet and from what I understand sent out a following tweet that sounds as if he might have gotten in trouble for sending out that spoiler tweet. Anyways hope this helps you guys out. Oh and btw Whiskey you can find TheGardner at this Lost Girl Zetaboards. :)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
463. Kiersten
Wow that is a really detailed thread of BTS stuff. I'm baffled at how they've managed to compile it all especially considering how strict LG PTB are about leaks. Must have spies in all the right places.

Thanks for the link. There's not much there I haven't seen or heard in one way or another, excepting the stuff gleaned from extras on set and/or their own in-place sources, but it's really interesting to see it all compiled in one place. Just makes me even hungrier for season four to get the hell going already!
D K
464. DarthFaeder
For you Kiersten no problem although I had to hurry up and gulp down my lunch cuz it took me almost my whole lunch time at work to write that post lol . I am happy to share with all my cool friends here at this website. I hope that you'll look into that Justin TV thing though. If you can view lost girl episodes as of Nov 10 and not have to wait till syfy starts airing them Jan 2014, then you could bring in alot of new posters to your blog so that they can read your overview of each episode and then talk about them :). There may not be million upon millions of viewers of LG, but the viewers that LG does have are rabid and extremely loyal and vocal.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
465. Kiersten
@DarthFaeder - I know all about the JustinTV thing. It saved my tuchus a lot last season. But the feed is very faulty and the more people who use it, the more it freezes. Thankfully, I have other sneaky recapper ways of watching...

That said, Heroes and Heartbreakers WILL be having a weekly post where fans can discuss Lost Girl season four as it airs in Canada in November. It will NOT be a recap but those who've seen the ep in Canada will still have our safe haven to come to and dish about it. It will, ergo, be TOTALLY spoilerific, so read with caution. I'll be monitoring the chatter as per usual to keep it from devolving into a blood sport.

The official full recaps will follow the U.S. schedule beginning in January 2014. Which just means some of us will get to chat about it all over again. ;)
D K
466. DarthFaeder
Hey Kiersten just one question if you won't be doing a recap of each episode as aired by showcase starting Nov 10th, then how is everyone here going to know what to talk about? Okay so is a weekly post the same as a recap? Sorry I am just confused? I tried to do that Justin TV thing but could never get it to work for me so hmmmm if you have other ways of watching the showcase airing starting Nov 10th I know I'd sure like to know :). I do know of a way to temporily change your VPN address so that if you live in the U.S. and you want to watch LG shows being rebroadcasted on the Showcase network you can. I've never used it before but they claim to be legal.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
467. Kiersten
I dont know about VPN or whatever. Sometimes I get a link that works, sometimes I don't. It's that random.

The staff at H&H will put up a "Lost Girl premiered last night in Canada. Did you watch? Tell us what you thought in the comments!" or something to that effect so that our Canadian readers who watched and/or Yanks with simliar sneaky viewing ways can talk about it. Plus anyone who's keen to be spoiled.

The official recaps that I write, however, will follow the U.S. broadcast schedule on Syfy. Hope that clears up any confusion.
D K
468. DarthFaeder
Yes that does help so you are relying on are fellow Canadian LG fans to report what happeded. Btw the website to change your VPN address is
TunnelBear. It's a website that circumvents Geo Blocking. Just google
TunnelBear and you'll find it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
469. Kiersten
Its more that we're giving Canadian LG fans (regular readers or new) a place to discuss the show rather than relying on them to tell us what happened, though that will be a side benefit for sure. This is a unique community amongst the Lost Girl fandom and we want to serve that community and readership as best we can when deciding how best to handle the network scheduling hi-jinks between the two countries.
D K
470. DarthFaeder
Hmmm okay then thanks for the heads up. It's nice to know that you have Canadians here who watch LG and is willing to talk about it. I
can't wait so lets hurry up and bring Nov 10th on!!!! Whoo Hoooo!!!!
Carmen Pinzon
471. bungluna
Hey, some of us are futher away and do serious gymnastics to be able to watch our favorite shows! I for one will be here hoping season 4 is better than the last two!
TheGardner
472. Char
@DarthFaeder---Thanks for spoiler. I'm thinking Aife is going to die. I mean who else could it be. Well, maybe Hale.

So, I live for and love spoilers. But Im going to wait it out. Lets go January 2014!! WOW! That is so far away!
TheGardner
473. whiskeywhite
Kiersten, thanks to you and H&H for the consideration for Canadian LG fans. Surely it cannot be a surprise for the regular readers here that I am a Canadian, in Canada (I was a Canadian in Boston for some time, years ago. I picked up a bit of an accent while I was there and was mercilessly ribbed about it when I came home). I thank you on behalf of all Canadians :-). I think that a couple of others have identified themselves a few times and I also suspect that there are Canadian lurkers here (if so, speak up fellow Canucks!).

I will certainly be a faithful participant, although what I will do without you, Kiersten, explaining murky bits of the plot to me, I don't know. I'll wait until January I guess. That's what I'll do.

@DarthFaedar, thanks for tracking down @TheGardner. I'm not going to start reading another board, but I might pop in and tell her I miss her. (I would miss the rest of you too if you left!)
Nadine Robb
474. cmm
@Kiersten THANK YOUUUUU! I was begining to think i'd have to watch and not have your awesome commentary. I still don't understand though, why the US doesn't have the same premiere date.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
475. Kiersten
The U.S. doesn't have the same premiere date in order to spare my sanity & save my fingers. That's it, that's the whole reason. Jay Firestone said, "we can't have Kiersten staying up till 4 AM on a work night writing recaps due to the 24-hour turn around between broadcasts so we'll have to debut in Canada 3 months earlier than the U.S. so she has a buffer."

He's such a giver, that guy
Kiersten Hallie Krum
476. Kiersten
@cam well, my recaps won't start until Janurary's U.S. debut, but I'll be here in November chiming in on the comments for sure.
TheGardner
477. TheGardner
@whiskeywhite - I miss you too homie! I promise my departure had nothing to do with you, I just needed a break. As for now, I don't really have anything to add to the discussion and I am tired of talking about season 3. Never fear I will come back with my "sharp analysis" once the season starts because yeah, I live in Florida, but I am so not waiting until January. Thank you internet! Take care and I will see you then.
Mary Beth House
479. UberFaenatic
As an American, I'm bummed that I have to find *ahem* alternative means to seeing shows that have a delayed airing in the States or shows that are international (there are a couple shows from Australia which I lurve but can only see via *ahem* alternative means).

There is zero chance that I can wait until some time in 2014 for this. I've analyzed and counter analyzed the show, the relationships and the storylines and I'm just ready to see how much of it I got right, how much I got wrong and where they end up taking things.

I will say I'm really interested in seeing George Takei, Mia Kirshner and Linda Hamilton this season and seeing how they fit.

My guess for Kirshner is that perhaps she could be related to Kenzi...but frankly I think she'd make a wicked awesome dark fae. lol

BTW... saw the interesting back and forth as to why Lauren and Bo have the following they did. My two pence?

For some it's because Lauren was the female alternative and some folks only watch shows with that possibility. And since she was the first major female interest for the main character, that must mean that they belong together. A theme I strongly reject.

In fact, after having watched them in a relationship together, I think they're entirely incompatible, physically, emotionally and psychologically.

That said, I have no doubt there will be sexy times between them...a tryst now and then, because there is that connection and a fan base for them but I cannot envision a scenario right now where they end up together full time because of the aforementioned incompatibility.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
480. Kiersten
I think the only scenario where Bo and Doctor Lauren can become primary lovers again, i.e. back in their toxic relationship, would be if they made DL Fae through Taft's research. I would SERIOUSLY consider dropping the show if that happened because it would be a major cheat, but I also increasingly feel that is exactly where they intend to go. Hopefully, if so, then it's only temporary for the episode of the week. Again, I'm only guessing, but, based on S3, I feel as though EA would do just about anything to appease that fan base.
Mary Beth House
481. UberFaenatic
I hope you're wrong. I'd hate to think they'd go there just to appease a specific subset of fans to that extent. It doesn't really make sense with the rest of what we supposedly know about Lauren anyway. So she'd be fae, and then what, be unaligned? Yeah, because that would be a new concept. ;)

Besides, that would only cover one area of their incompatibility and doesn't address the rest of it.

It might be interesting for an ep of the week though...to explore it kind of like how Doccubus was explored. But like Doccubus, seeing it in action only highlighted the wrongness of it for me personally.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
482. Kiersten
I really want to be wrong, UberFaenatic. Zoie Palmer has said we're going to see Doctor Lauren as we never have before, and that just seems like the most linear character advancement to suit her hint, especially considering the spoiler line floating around out there "Lauren, is that you?"

I also always appreciate how ZP very comfortably admits thats DL's storyline has been rather ambiguous as to whether she's "good" or "bad" especially in S1 and that she thinks DL could still go either way. I get the feeling that she would like DL to veer more on the "bad" side of things if only to give her something more meaty to play, though that's my impression, not anything she's said directly in public.
Mary Beth House
483. UberFaenatic
Well like I said, I could handle it as a one off...might be interesting to see. Especially if that takes her to a bad place. I'd be interested in seeing an evil Lauren, but as a human.

And frankly I don't care much for characters who's only "value" seems to be in their pairing. So I would be happy if they gave her a real storyline apart from Bo.

Besides, what does that say about them that the only way they can start to become compatible (at least physically) is to alter the very essence and nature of one of them? Isn't her humanity one of the draws for the whole Doccubus thing? It was when I shipped it at least.
D K
484. DarthFaeder
Hello Kiersten and UberFaenatic I like the conversation about how Lauren's character may or may not turn. I think what Zoie may have been referring to is that she may have the chance to venture out of the Lab more often now. Lets not forget that she has been under the thumb of the Ash for as long as she's been associated with the Fae. It's entirely possible that as of season 4 she no longer works for the Fae. It's entirely possible that her servitude has come to an end. That would explain her saying that we are going to see in a whole new way. Having said that it's not like Lauren is some great fighter like Bo, Dyson, Tamsin, or Hale. Even Kenzi a human is more of a bad ass than DL therefore if DL is going out and helping to solve cases then physically she will be the weak link. She is smart as all get out, but that doesn't help when you have some crazy ass fae trying to kill you. Kenzi has always had Bo to have her back so how the hell is Bo suppose to keep both Kenzi and DL safe? I don't know I think I may have just argued against my own theory? Maybe if she does get out of the Lab she should make sure she is equiped to handle what will come her way. I agree though that I don't think they should make her a Fae. So who would perform the procedure? They'd have to bring in another Doctor or Scientist to do the procedure right? It would be totally an agregious act if EA allowed DL to become Fae, and might I suggest if DL can't become fae then Kenzi should be allowed either. No I think that they sould just put that whole Dr Taft thing behind them and start all over with a brand new season 4. Of course alot of cliffhangers will have to addressed in the first two episodes of season 4, but after those have been addressed they need to put season 3 behind them. I don't want to give alot away but that phrase Kiersten that you talked about " Lauren is that you " I do believe that something happens to Bo's memory during that episode and that might be why she asks that question. I don't want to say anymore than that cuz I'd be giving a spoiler away so I'll shut up now :) @Whiskey you are welcome about letting you know about TheGardner. You sounded like you really wanted to touch base with her and I noticed her at the L chat website. BTW if there is anyone out there in the States that has a way to watch LG starting Nov 10 I'd like to hear how you plan on doing it. I myself am going to try JustinTV. I couldn't get it to work before but maybe next time I'll have more luck. Of course there are those free cable websites but I am not sure if they will make the episodes of LG available until after they have aired on Syfy first? Anyways any suggestions would be appreciated. @Cmm you would have to ask both showcase and syfy why there are 2 different premier dates. I don't know why that in the last 2 seasons showcase has gone along with syfy and waited until January instead of the fall months when showcase wants to air LG. Showcase has gone along with what Syfy wanted to do because I suspect it was to their advantage to do so. Maybe Showcase no longer wants to go along with Syfy? Maybe showcase feels that LG is big enough now and they don't have to give in to Syfy?
Mary Beth House
485. UberFaenatic
@DarthFaeder... are you on Twitter? If so, DM me @creativeg33k and we'll talk. :)

BTW that goes for any of you all. I don't care who you ship as long as we can have fun ribbing each other about what ships we support and don't make it mean or all attack-y like, which I have faced and have found to be extremely unpleasant.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
486. Kiersten
There's only been 1 season (S3) where Showcase & SyFy both debut in January allbeit two weeks apart. Then with the Superbowl and The Oscars, they wound up being on 24 hours apart as Showcase skipped those Sundays so as not to lose out numbers wise to those big-ticket events. There was a HUGE outcry from Canadian fans b/c originally Showcase had announced an October debut date for S3 and then changed it later to January. The general consensus (whether accurate or not) is that Syfy wanted to cut down on U.S. viewers who were watching the episodes online after the Canadian showing in the belief that it took away from their own numbers. Perhaps the actual data from S3 proved this wrong , or perhaps Showcase and Firestone decided to allow their Canadian viewers to benefit first from their Canadian show or maybe it just fit in SHhowcase's schedule better for the fall while Syfy wants to wait to debut it with another show (Bitten, maybe?) in January block. There are a lot of possibilities. I, for one, am very glad there's a window between the showings for selfish reasons. Sue me.
Mary Beth House
487. UberFaenatic
No worries, Kiersten. We all have our pros and cons as to their timing.

I just hate that it's 13 episodes. That just goes so fast, regardless of when it starts.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
488. Kiersten
True, but when they had 22 episodes, it was a hot mess of a season. 13 seems to be all they can handle and also allows for less filler opportunities
Mary Beth House
489. UberFaenatic
You might have some insight on this... I thought I read somewhere that one of the reason Season 2 had some issues was because there were some new writers or too many writers and that's why they just didn't do a good job locking down story and character arcs.

Truth or internet rumors?
TheGardner
490. Char
@Kiersten---I would stop watching Lost Girl if Lauren became Fae. Even if it was only for 1 episode. I'm over Lauren and her hero storylines. I signed up to watch Bo and her story. I love Dyson and Kenzi, but this is not about them. It is all about Bo.

@UberFaenatic---I'm tired of the pandering to a vocal minority. I'm so over it. If it needs to have 2 females be together, so be it. As horrible as it is, it is better than making Lauren Fae. Well, maybe Lauren will get her own show, called Faeing Human.

@whiskeywhite---I would be sorry that you would leave.

@TheGardener--I have missed you but your clear bias towards Lauren leaves alot to be desired.

@DarthFaeder---What other spoilers do you know? Do tell!!!

@cmm-- I hate that they start in January. And if it is on a Sunday again, then that's one missed week due to Superbowl Sunday. I want it back on Friday with Beinh Human.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
491. Kiersten
The showrunner(s) for S1 left LG after S1. Two of those former writers/producers are now wildly successful with Orphan Black on BBCAmerica. For S2 there was no established showrunner outside of Firestone who has many projects he oversees. So there was a lot of BTS upset. Then they got the 22 episode order when they'd only planned for 13 and rather than run it as a 13-ep arc & then a new 9-ep arc (like Chuck did for many of its uncertain seasons) they chose to stretch out the season long storylines (like Dyson's lost love) and use filler episodes to, well, fill in the gaps. Which is how we got the Midnight Lamp episode for example. Then they crammed the Garuda storyline conclusion into the last 2 or 3 episodes leaving them full of plot holes and rushed emo moments. When EA was established as S3 showrunner, rumor had it that pretty much everyone was relived as she brought a lot of stablity back to the production with clear leadership, whether we like where she led or not. It's also why there's such a tonal difference between S1 and Seasons 2&3.

Or at least, that's how I heard it. Likely it's actually something completely different.
TheGardner
492. whiskeywhite
Hey, @TheGardner! I was hoping you were peeking in occasionally. Looking forward to your return. As you can see, we have great new participants in UberFaenatic and Darthfaeder.

I think Canadians bloody well should see the series first. I was royally pissed when they moved Season 3 to January to be in sync with SyFy. We in Canada waited 9 months for that season!! But, aside from meeting Kiersten's needs, which benefits us all, I was fine with the US running one week behind. (It just occurred to me, do Americans use 'royally' to mean 'really'? Or is that a Canadian, we-love-our-Queen, thing?) :-)

I am tempted sometimes to try to recruit folks to come here when I see them making good analyses elsewhere. There was a person on the Showcase blog who I found particularly insightful. Anyone have any advice to a newbie like me on how to do that?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
493. Kiersten
Yes, we use "royally" in that manner. Just not as knee-jerk as "really".
TheGardner
494. whiskeywhite
@LindaL -- we're coming up on post #500. Want to grab that covetted spot as well as #1? Gotta move fast.
Mary Beth House
495. UberFaenatic
@Kiersten... that does clear things up.

I am getting mixed messages though. I've read from other people that they do not believe that EA would cater too much to the Doccubi and here it looks like that's what some fear. So I don't know what to think. :S
Kiersten Hallie Krum
496. Kiersten
Well, there's really no way to know what to think, UberFanatic, which is why it's all speculation. From what I've seen in S3, it looks like she mainly does catering to Doccubi repeatedly. Who knows if she will continue to do so? Bo and Doctor Lauren broke up for real, genuine reasons and have clear obstructions to their relationship despite what they feel for one another. The show has made that very clear. But whether they keep to that or not remains to be seen. S3 had a lot of character and plot retcon in order to position DL as a better, more-worthy mate for Bo, which says to me that they'll do just about anything to keep that fanbase happy no matter what it takes or who it harms. Others may think that EA does the exact opposite and with Bo and DL's break up, has set their relationship on the same uncertain level as Bo and Dyson have been for two seasons now. There's really no way to know until S4 actually plays out...and perhaps, not even then ;)
D K
497. DarthFaeder
@Uberfaenatic no I am not on twitter for a couple of reasons. I am just not that social of a person hehe. I know that sounds absolutely ridiculous because I belong not only here at HH but I am at the Syfy forum, I post at the showcase LG Blog/forum and I love to post at the L Chat as well. Wow now that I think about it not being on twitter is kinda strange but I don't even have a facebook page sorry. When LG season 4 starts up I don't know what in the world I am going to do. I have 4 sites that I like to talk LG in and just not enough time. When I get home from working at my office job all day I don't want to be on a computer. The only time I really spend on a computer is my lunch time at work and on the weekends. Ohhhh soooo much LG to talk about at 4 different websites and so little time. Hmmm now that I have completely talked you ear off UberFae I will stop. I suppose a simple NO will have sufficed right?? Strange for someone who really can't imagine having anything to do with social media I sure do like to talk alot. I think sometimes I am some creepy little enigma LOL!!!!
Mary Beth House
498. UberFaenatic
Haha exactly. :) Like I've said before, I've shipped Bo with both Dyson and Lauren. And it was seeing her with Lauren that proved (to me) that they are just completely incompatible for any kind of full on relationship.

With Dyson, at least, we know she was happy. We know they tried to talk through things, albeit with difficulty. And we know that they were on a path to full coupledom pre-Norn.

But Bo and Lauren broke up because Lauren said so...after finally conceding that she would always need things Bo couldn't give her and I think recognizing Bo's nature as fae would always be an obstacle. I don't forgive her for sideswiping Bo, though. They never worked through any of their major issues....and then for Lauren to drop a bomb on her without any kind of chance to work things out or discuss things...I just don't forgive that. It was supremely unfair to Bo.

Of course I'd now like to see where they're going with Tamsin, although I concede I might be of a minority opinion around here. ;) It seems that in Season 3 they were branching the triangle into a square...and frankly if they dropped all of that just to appease a specific subsect, that would bum me out. Perhaps it'd be like seeing Doccubus and all its flaws...that it would come and go and we'd see why it couldn't work or whatever. But I hope they don't disregard it because a group of faenatics don't like it disrupting the illusion they've concocted for their OTP, where only Lauren can make Bo happy. Something which is provably false if one took a few seconds and watched her with Dyson in Season 1.

I've started to wonder (again) about that potion not working. (until the season starts, I have LOADS of time to wonder ;) ) and it occurred to me that the tone Bo used with the Spriggan about how important Lauren was to her and how much she loved her was the same tone of voice she used when she was telling people they were only on a break. Almost as if she were trying to convince herself of it, if that makes sense.

Not to say she doesn't love her...but perhaps she started to wonder how much she loved her, given the whole kiss with Tamsin, which she conceded with Kenzi she'd have to give thought to or maybe it was even Dyson and his confession that he still loved her.

Perhaps subconsciously one or both things were working in the back of her mind to question the extent of her devotion to Lauren, a devotion threatened further when Lauren went AWOL...and perhaps it was this that made the potion a dud.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
499. Kiersten
That's a good point. She protests so much that she *does* love DL that you begin to wonder how much of it she truly believes. I think she genuinely does love the doc, but I think it's a lot of infatuation love, that hippy dippy, sexual bliss that makes you think you're in love when you're in lust and infatuation. When they try to make a real relationship out of it, the only time they're both happy is when they're banging or flirting or about to bang. Introduce anything of consequence, and they very quickly start to fray around the edges. For the day to day, Bo spends the majority of her time with Kenzi (except when she was banging DL so much in the early halcyon days of their relationship) and after that, she's working/fighting/flirting with Dyson and/or Tamsin. It's ususally "Oh right, I have to check in with (Doctor) Laurnen" but DL is rarely her first thought. It's much the same with DL who is happiest in her lab with her isotopes and monographs but will come up for air when its time for the sexy with Bo...or at least she will sometimes. Both of their behaviors is, to me, quite telling as to where they both fit in the other's lives...which is almost nowhere.
Mary Beth House
500. UberFaenatic
Yes exactly right. That's what I'm talking about. IMHO it's all based on chemistry and how sexy they look and not on the real stuff of a relationship.

I'm like one month into my online fandom for the show and I remember going to this one place online which said it was a Lost Girl forum, but it really wasn't. It was a Doccubus thread. And there was a lot of squeeing about how cute they are and how sexy but...that's not all there is to a relationship. And seeing them together made me think that Lauren was living a fantasy... a relationship with a succubus but science-d up to make her more human. And Bo was living a fantasy... pretending to be human. And the depth of their relationship seemed puddle deep but when push came to shove, we'd see them retreat to their own elements unless/until it was sexy time again. Or unless Lauren was lecturing Bo about something like she was a kid.

But they never seemed genuinely happy beyond the haze of pheromones. And even then, Bo was not getting what she needed and Lauren was completely over taxed. So even the "best" part of their relationship was faetally flawed.

And you're right... their behavior was completely telling since neither really fits into the other's priorities like they should were they really a good coupling.
Annie Moore
501. drusilla_doll
I think it comes down to that old question: is love really enough on its own? It'd be nice to think that being in love/infatuated with someone is all one needs to sustain a relationship, but in the end, if there's nothing deeper, no true common ground or compatibility in terms of desires/beliefs/natures - it's not all that likely to survive the long haul. Perhaps that's too realistic a view for a 'fantasy' story, but it seemed pretty clear from this season that no matter how much DL and Bo loved each other, they had a lot of issues and differences they really needed to address or work out - which they both avoided until it was too late. Perhaps they were in deep denial, trying to hold on to that heady first rush of a new love. It sure seemed that way. DL was eventually the one who had to own up and admit that they didn't actually fit together as a couple, no matter how much they wanted to. Neither of them were really getting what they needed, physically and emotionally.
Mary Beth House
502. UberFaenatic
Perhaps they were in deep denial, trying to hold on to that heady first rush of a new love. It sure seemed that way.
That's how I read it too. I mean after all the talk from Lauren in Season 1 that Bo could enjoy being fae if she embraced her nature rather than fight it, it was stunning to find out she had been medicating her to suppress her succubosity.

When I think of Doccubus, I think of the song, Sometimes Love Just Ain't Enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdzbjUWu2VU
D K
503. DarthFaeder
@Kiersten and UberFae wow that was some really really great anaylsis of Bo and Lauren's relationship. I wish the doccubus people would be willing to take a closer look at the relationship but I don't think they will. Unfortunetly most of them have already decided and nothing is going to change their minds. Quite frankly I don't really think anyone should. Why not just let them believe what they want right? What I don't understand is that most doccubus people are crazy about Lauren and aren't really that crazy about Bo. I don't know why they don't just create a new character just for Lauren. A character who is much more suited for her. I suppose the PTB can't really do that because the show is based on Bo's life not Lauren's. Take a look at the couple of episodes that Nadia was in. The show still revolved around Bo and what was going on with her not Nadia and Lauren. Well I guess I just answered my own question. I think that you are right Kiersten we are going to learn alot about how they plan to handle doccubus from season 4 and beyond. Lets go ahead and just remember that the demographics of this show has a strong lesbian, and 18 to 35 year old men. What do these demographics want? Well that is not hard to figure out sex sex and more sex. That is what is so interesting about the Tamsin character and how she may or may not fit into said love triangle and or square. The only way you can have a square is for Bo to make it clear to Dyson, Lauren, and Tamsin that whatever activity she engages with them, they can not assume that there is an exclusivity in place. Actually the more I think about it that would pretty much kill the triangle or square, and to be honest I think that everyone could be happy with that. Dybo and Valkubus fans are being thrown a bone by the PTB and the doccubus fans still will have their Bo and Lauren sexy times. I believe it's a win win proposition for everyone. Like I've said before she's a succubus why should she choose? They could just get in line and be thankful for whatever action they can get from her. @ Whiskey yes I use the word royally. Normally though I use it in a negative way for instance. " That person is being a royal pain in my ass " . Also another way is " That guy got royally screwed over " As far as Canadian being about to see LG first I totally agree. It's a Canadian show so yes you guys have first rights. I think that Syfy is just refusing to change LG to it's fall line up and wants in their winter lineup. Showcase and Syfy just has two different ways of presenting their seasonal line ups, but since Showcase has changed to suit Syfy already once, they've shown that they don't have to be so ridgid if they don't want to be. @ Char yes I do have an idea about how episode 10 is going to shake out so here you go. SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER ALERT DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT!!!!!!! From what it looks like episode 10 will involve mermaids and mermen. Yes that's what I said LOL merpeople will be the monster of the week. The episode will be named " Waves " If you are Valkubus fan Tamsin most likely will not be in this episode. From what it sounds like these crazy mermen and mermaids abduct humans and Fae alike, and they cut their legs off. I think that KHR sent out a twitter pic of someone being tied down on a table. Just so you know in post # 462 I did tell everyone where to go if you want to get your hands on a bunch of spoilery info so you may want to go back and check #462 out :) Oh I guess I forgot to tell you that I assume the reason why those merpeople cut people's legs off is so that they can attach said legs to themselves so that they can walk on land IMO of course.
Nadine Robb
504. cmm
@Char Lost girl comes on Friday? It's always been on Sunday for Canadians. As for making DL a fae I too would quit watching the show. I'm already close to quitting already. What I want for season 4 is for them to go back to the Bo that was in season 1. I really miss that Bo. I also miss their little cases they would do for human AND fae. I'm not saying that she can't find out more about the fae world, but, I think she can do both. Have cases and experience her culture. I would also like to know more about Kenzi. I really would like to meet her family.
TheGardner
505. Char
@cmm-The 1st season of Lost Girl was on Fridays. Now it's on Sundays competing with the Walking Dead, Football, and other shows...I want it back on Fridays. But What I want really doesnt matter in the grand scheme of Lost Girl. Yes, and Dr Taft...really was he necessary? I mean thanks for the 2 episodes. Bo can strt with more cases for the Dark and Light Fae.
Nadine Robb
506. cmm
Dr Taft would of been a great addition had he of not been lumped into the last few episodes. They could of introduced him earlier on and shown Lauren doing more science things with him. He could of been giving a lecture on a campus somewhere and that's where Lauren met him initially. It would of been a great lead in cause it would of tied nicely into the rest of the story as we saw it. The bodies of dead fae turning up and Bo being blamed. But, all the while it's Taft. We the audience are not privy to this though at first, until the last few episodes of the season as per what was shown. We would of been given more of a backstory with Taft and there would be no need for the Karen stunt or Taft's holding this secret over Lauren.
Carmen Pinzon
507. bungluna
@cmm - that presumes that the LG writers have a brain! You are right that season three was full of lost opportunities. Taft would have made a great "Garuda" of the human variety. Plus, it would have introduced the idea of a fae and human war in a more organic way, giving WonderLauren much needed drama of the non-sexual variety. Will she side with the humans; will she side with the fae; will she get a personaliry?!
D K
508. DarthFaeder
Just so everyone knows starting oct 13 the showcase.ca website is having a four part web series about LG. Also LG will have a preshow on Nov 10th before episode 1 starts. You can go to ET canada to read the article.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
509. Kiersten
This is great! I love their pre-shows. And the web series sounds intriguing...

Here's a direct link to the ET Canada article.

http://www.etcanada.com/blogs/etc_40699/lost-girl-treats-fans-to-a-season-4-pre-show-special/tv/
TheGardner
511. whiskeywhite
Great outfit on Bo in the Showcase photo. Actually has some colour, albeit dark red. The blog folks are all squealing about how she and Kenzi are in Lauren's apartment. What can that mean? :-) BTW, has someone bean watering the plant wall? It looks pretty green.

I've been pondering the nothing-new promo spot. Does the selection of scenes mean anything? We see Bo and Lauren getting their sexy on in bed. Quelle surprise -- Lauren will be back, but back in Bo's bed? No Dyson at all -- I guess they're more anxious to reassure everyone that F/F sexwill be back. We see Bo attacking the coma guy who died (that never was resolved). We see Bo striding in that gorgeous taupe suede cutaway coat (a sign of greater stylishness?). And I forget what else. Am I just trying to find meaning in nothingness?

It may be that Showcase has moved Beauty and the Beast to Sunday night where, if it stays where it is, it will be the lead in show to LG. The Season 2 debut was this past Sunday, Oct. 6 (the US debut was Oct. 7). If you think LG has plot holes, you should see BATB 2.01. They, too, seem to have decided that they don't need major black characters, having dumped (or lost) their only one. But they kept their secondary beast, played by the supremely gorgeous Sendhil Ramamurthy. Except that he's not a beast any more. His genetically determined beast part died -- that's what a few bullet holes in the chest and your heart stopping will do to you. But the human part survives. See what I mean?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
512. Kiersten
I don't think that there's anything to be read in that nothing promo except that they are not allowing any significant advance shots of S4 to hit the Internet until possibly the last minute. I too noted that Bo and Kenzi were in DL's apartment and that Bo is wearing the outfit she had on when she recorded the message for the SDCC fans. I would not take this as cause for celebration were I a doccubus fan. Take a look at her face; that is *not* a happy succubus and Kenzi is clearly in her "run behind Bo and hopelessly try to disuade her from what she's about to do" mode. Besides, DL's apartment is a main set piece; that it's being used is no surprise. No one would be wetting themselves if Bo and Kenzi were shown in the cop shop because - duh.

Overall, I think there's nothing of worth to be gleaned from anything that is shown until the episodes begin. The embargo on promo images, the deliberate baiting and misdirection on social media, the ambiguous answers to questions at conventions - this is a shut down production that is viciously controlling the information doled out to the fan base because it knows that whatever is in store for S4 is going to shake up everyone.

Also? I hate the hip wings on Bo's top. It was nearly a perfect outfit, and then they had to Bo-bot it up
Mary Beth House
513. UberFaenatic
I haven't seen the new(?) promo video so I can't speak to that.

I have seen the Bo/Kenzi/DL's apartment pic and I have to agree with @Kiersten on all counts. And I also don't like the wings on Bo's outfit. I do like Kenzi's hair though... that almost makes up for the wings. ;)

Bo is certainly wearing a confused or unhappy expression. So whatever she's seeing, it isn't necessarily a happy surprise.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
514. Kiersten
@UberFanatic - as far as I know, there is no "new" promo. There was a "tease" for S4 about a month ago, but it was entirely composed of images from S3 which made no one happy. Prime example of trying to feed the beast fans without actually giving anything away and really missing the mark
Mary Beth House
515. UberFaenatic
Ah yes. Well I saw that promo then.

I'm starting to wonder if, as much as they talk about the "triangle" and keeping that going, that perhaps they're going to shake things up entirely but don't want to let on to fans of the triangle.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
516. Kiersten
At this point, I'm ready for humans to be Fae and Fae to be humans. There's been so much "take everything you know about Lost Girl and turn it upside down" that it is almost guaranteed *not* to live up to the hype (though I would be DELIGHTED to be wrong about that).

There will definitely be more Tamsin/Kenzi interaction, there's almost certainly more DL/Dyson interaction, and there's more Vex and Hale this season, but that's pretty much all I feel sure of and even that is likely to be totally off-base, given how often wrong I actually am.
Mary Beth House
517. UberFaenatic
That's a mistake I think. Because they've built up expectations and given us so little in regard to spoilers, people have a natural tendency to fill in the gaps with their own imaginations; and from my experience, it's extremely rare for a production to come up with ideas I'm more excited about than my own ideas. Not that I'm a genius or anything...it's just that it's human nature to love and want something that you've decided and locked onto as the "right" solution.

So how can they possibly live up to that for everyone? There's no chance that everyone has come up with what the writers' will give us so there are people who are not going to be happy with things regardless.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
518. Kiersten
Because they've built up expectations and given us so little in regard to spoilers, people have a natural tendency to fill in the gaps with their own imaginations

You're the 517th comment on this post, UberFanatic. Think it's safe to say we've filled in that gap...
D K
520. DarthFaeder
Kiersten darn you! You my friend are making me go out of my
freaking mind cuz I know that you are 100% right!!! LOL it's a
total and complete shut down on any little bit of info. They are
obviously very concerned about something? The thought of things
getting out and pissing off some of the views or perhaps alot of the
viewers obviously is concerning to them or why else wouldn't they
be releasing anything? I wonder if they will even have a season
4 teaser now for fear of a particular ship??? I don't know but I am
sooooooooo freaking excited I think I am gonna wet myself and soon
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Btw Kiersten congrats you've already hit over 500
comments and it came during the down time with no new LG stuff
to talk about. Are there any other blogs here at H & H that can even compete with that? Btw H & H came up as a topic of converstation yesterday at the LG L-chat forum. I believe they referred to you as Captain Dybot LOL!!!!! They are being just as petty as ever and I
suppose pretty bored if they are talking about H & H right? LOL!!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
521. Kiersten
Oh, the other thing I'm damn sure of is that they will retcon DL's actions in the season finale as "heroic" and she will yet again bear no significant consequence with anyone (like, say, Bo) for them. But again, would be DELIGHTED OH MY GOD HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE to be wrong...
Mary Beth House
522. UberFaenatic
Captain Dybot. Heh. Can I be Captain Valkubot? ;)

As for Lauren, she did save Dyson, so that should win her some points. But, I don't think it's enough to erase everything else.

And I still haven't forgiven her for kneecapping Bo a couple eps earlier.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
523. Kiersten
Captain Dybot? Huh. I've been demoted. Before S3 I heard tell I'd been dubbed "Queen of the Dybots".

Not a fan of the "Dybot" moniker myself as it's meant to be demeaning of those fans, and "Byson" is even worse. They're not bovine! But whatever. Prefer to stick with Bo's name for them: "Team Badass." That said, "Captain" or "Queen"...both work. ;)

Ah, so there's where we divert, UberFanatic as I maintain until proven otherwise that it's clear DL definitely did NOT save Dyson, but rather blatantly & cruelly experimented on him. That she didn't inject Taft w/Dyson's DNA doesn't mean she saved him, only that she screwed Taft over with whose DNA she injected into him, never mind how she violated the tortured Sunitha the cabbitt by taking her DNA in the first place when Sunitha had no means or recourse by which to resist DL.

That said, I would be SHOCKED if LG stuck to that and fully expect them to retcon DL into hero status with S4. Guess she blinked her plans to the strapped down and drugged Dyson right before she stuck the honking huge needle into him.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
524. Kiersten
FTR, while I don't visit any other Lost Girl forums/web sites/discussions, I am sure that any mention of me or H&H on the L-chat forum, or any other Lost Girl forum for that matter, is nothing but polite and respectful discourse of other members of the overall Lost Girl fanbase...
Mary Beth House
525. UberFaenatic
Oh interesting perspective. I hadn't thought about it that way.

My sense was that she was playing Taft like a fiddle, even going so far as to say that Dyson would not survive the surgery and then did a bait and switch so as to ensure Dyson received only a minor wound while cabot-ing Taft. I actually thought it was pretty clever that she used the genetic material she got when rescuing the cabot to make Taft think he'd been wolf-inated.

I'll have to rewatch the episode now and see what I missed here. lol

As for your post in comment 524... you are aware of what fandom this is, right? ;)

*I jest, of course*
Suzanne Metaxas
526. SuzyM
FTR, while I don't visit any other Lost Girl forums/web sites/discussions, I am sure that any mention of me or H&H on the L-chat forum, or any otherLost Girl forum for that matter, is nothing but polite and respectful discourse of other members of the overall Lost Girl fanbase...
@Kiersten and you believe in the tooth fairy too right?
Mary Beth House
527. UberFaenatic
@DarthFaeder... nice to see you on the SC blog! I'm MB over there. :)
D K
528. DarthFaeder
@Uberfanatic seriously???? I was the guest that backed you up earlier this morning hahaha small world huh Uber? I finally decided to come in under the username Darthfaeder just now. Normally I don't like to use
the same username but I decided to do that in the SC blog.
Mary Beth House
529. UberFaenatic
Yep it's me! I usually use UberFaenatic to talk lost Girl, but I associated the commenting to my Twitter account... so MB it was. :)
D K
530. DarthFaeder
Hey Uber don't you also post at Brazenwood? If so could you tell Di Cru and Shehadacorpse to not forget about being a part of the showcase blog?
I was going to join but they wanted info and stuff I wasn't interested in giving them at that site. They were regulars and now if they don't post there anymore it might get overloaded with the crazy shippers
Mary Beth House
531. UberFaenatic
I posted over there encouraging involvement.

As for not wanting to give info at Brazenwood, I totally understand. In fact I never give out my private information to anyone. ;)
D K
532. DarthFaeder
Thanks Uber it's never good when one ship over runs Showcase cuz
then they start to think that they own the place and then they get
really crazy mean. Showcase unfortunetly doesn't seem to have a
moderator to control and reign in the insanity. Btw Kiersten EA is
a notorious troll and she reads alot of what is being said. If you
avoid showcase and syfy forums then your Dybo voice may not be
heard? Although it is entirely possible that she swings by here now and
again so maybe Dybo does get represented. I know Showcase can be a sesspool at times but if you ignore the trolls/baiters and just talk to
like minded shippers then you can avoid the irritation. Anyways its just a suggestion do with it what you want. :) I actually don't mind going head to head with the trolls/baiters I find it amusing at times. They can really work themselves into a frenzy while you just move on to talking to your fellow shipmates.
Mary Beth House
533. UberFaenatic
I find it funny, personally. I like dissecting people's positions and expressing my opinion in ways where, if they're being especially childish, they look foolish for attacking me personally just for having a different viewpoint.

And I do think it's important for all views to be expressed. My personal feeling is that people have been kind of beaten down by the Doccubi to the point where they don't bother...and that gives them a sense of entitlement or something.

Why can't people like what they want without being attacked? Craziness.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
534. Kiersten
I appreciate that, DarthFader, but I quite simply don't have the time or energy to visit other sites, even if I had the desire to wade in amongst the venom, which I don't. I've long stopped even following the #LostGirl hashtag feed on Twitter b/c the doccumania and bitter was so ridiculous and delusional. Riding herd on all y'all (which is my privilege and my pleasure) plus my many other commitments takes all my non-dayjob related time.

If EA dose in fact troll and/or possibly visit here (Hi Emily! How you doin'?) then more power to her. As a marketer/advertiser (dayjob), I can't disagree with anonymously taking the temperature of your audience. It's actually very smart business.

But I think anyone who does so and believes that, based on its forum presence, one virulent side of a fanbase represents the dominant opinion, then that's their foolish mistake to make and their consequence to reap. To believe that one small part of the fandom who just happen to have the loudest voice and believe that shouting over and bullying everyone else means "winning" and is the same as debate and discourse, is as juvenile as that behavior itself.

At the moment, despite my many disappointments with her choices as showrunner/head writer for S3, I think better of Emily Andras than that.
Linda Losik
535. LindaL
I have never had an issue posting on SyFy…Showcase is a totally ‘nother story. I was so hounded that I ended up closing one email account. Have no idea how they got my email address but they did. Then I found Kirsten! Everybody is (mostly) respectful here even if we do go on bit… SyFy has a moderator that really does tolerate more than is tolerated here but at least there is no personal hounding by tracking back to personal accounts. For the most part they are respectful if you don’t make comments about the sainted DL at whose altar they worship at; still don’t get it

Even though I never got a answer, I did snail-mail a letter to TPTB expressing my displeasure about the blatant pandering that was season 3.
TheGardner
536. whiskeywhite
Captain Kiersten it is then. Captain of our beloved ship. Of dear, did I just say 'ship'? No ship(ping) here. :-) Has nice alliteration too (OK, Queen Kiersten does as well).

Too bad that the Showcase blog has gone off the rails. It was fairly interesting -- and quite international, which was kinda cool -- when I used to post there quite a while ago.

Good to see you back @LindaL. I feared we had lost you.
TheGardner
537. whiskeywhite
I forgot to say -- I wasn't surprised to hear about the mermaids. I remember EA saying in an interview that her fallback suggestion whenever the writers were stumped was mermaids. So I guess she finally got her mermaids.
TheGardner
538. whiskeywhite
Hearing that you were posting at Showcase, @UberFaenatic, led me to go and have a look. I really appreciated you attempting to introduce some thoughtful conversation there (and you too @DarthFaeder). I voted up your best comments. And you elicited a few decent comments through your efforts. But I don't know how you have the energy to continue on to engage with the sillier contributions there. Which reached its peak for me with "Shut. Up. Bitch". Yikes. It's really sad to see how badly it's deteriorated. It used to be much better. Glad to see H&H being promoted. Let's hope there's a serious lurker there looking for something better. And that, dear Captain, is the last I will say about that other site.
Mary Beth House
539. UberFaenatic
I think it's hilarious when the "mature" ship (yes, I say that derisively) devolves to that level of personal attacks. They don't have a response or a counter argument...and so they have to attack. It's sad really.

I also get a kick out of how my ship is categorized as a small handful of pre-teens. Well, I past pre-teen a few decades ago. In fact, I just realized that I was just entering high school when Ksenia Solo was born. Talk about making a girl feel old! :)

But that's Ship War 101...demean and diminish the "opposition." lol

I like debating and talking and figuring out where there's commonality and where there are differences. I particularly enjoy it here because I feel that, even though we're all not necessarily coming from the same position regarding "ships"...we are united in our love for the show and can discuss and debate without hair-pulling. ;)
Mary Beth House
540. UberFaenatic
@Kiersten... I was interested in what you didn't like about this season. I actually thought it was pretty good. I'm glad that Doccubus was explored and that for me at least, I saw why it was just a bad idea all around. I liked seeing Dyson's evolution as a character ... all the love yet none of the jealousy that kept causing problems with him and Bo...

I didn't like how they wrote Hale, even though I understand why they made him Ash, and even though he kind of made up for some of it in the last two episodes.

And of course I totally loved Tamsin.

My primary issue with the season was that it felt really rushed. I think the Taft story should have been spread out more, same with the Lauren story. And I don't like how they create these arcs of horrible awfulness that turn into "meh's". ... kind of like Tamsin's warning about the Dawning, which seemed like a nothingburger to me. Oh and even after reading and re-reading your explanation of the Dawning, I still don't get it. lol

So what was your beef?
D K
541. DarthFaeder
@Whiskey yes I am alot more civilized here because everyone here actually has a brain and respectful of others. I unfortunetly get
caught up sometimes in the shinnanigans (hope I spelled that right)
at Showcase but I quickly get bored with that stuff and love to retreat
to this awesome sanctuary of politeness and positivity. I can actually
relax here and not have to fight and be mean to the posters here and I
am grateful for that. @Uberfaenatic the PTB thought that they were going to have to write for 22 episodes but only 13 were ordered. Everything got truncated especially the Tamsin storyline. That is why everything seemed so hurried IMO. @LindaL I post at Syfy too and the fact that they also have a moderator helps alot.
Mary Beth House
542. UberFaenatic
@DarthFaeder ... yeah I remember someone mentioning that here awhile back (although without re-reading all the comments, I forget who ;) )

It's a shame though. I would like to have seen a larger arc. That said, @Kiersten made a good point that even when they have a lot of episodes, they don't always do a good job dispersing the content so we end up with fillers.
TheGardner
543. whiskeywhite
@UberFaenatic -- you make two good points:
I liked seeing Dyson's evolution as a character ... all the love yet none of the jealousy that kept causing problems with him and Bo...
I agree with you in that we see him coming to terms with Bo's relationship with Lauren -- though to be fair he's recognized Bo's need for non-monogamy from the beginning (and lectured her about it). Still, there were times I wanted to smack him through the TV screen. I was so glad to see him become quite friendly with Lauren.

Which reminds me, what did the Doccubi think of that big, and lingering, hug he gave her when she told him that dead faux Kenzi was not Kenzi? Given that some folks can make so much out of so little ... . Reminds me of the Denzi fan we had here for a little bit who was convinced that because Dyson didn't throw faux Kenzi off absolutely instantly when she kissed him, it meant he was attracted to her sexually and they had a future as a couple. It has been reported in the past that there are Lauren/Dyson folks out there -- unbelievably. Any recent sightings? Or are they either a mythical or extinct species?

And:
kind of like Tamsin's warning about the Dawning, which seemed like a nothingburger to me
Yes! Beyond 'nothingburger' (cute) for me -- I didn't get that at all. Anybody understand what that was about?

The problem with the number of episodes and the plot is the lack of planning, or consistency in the planning. We have to be fair to the writers (oh no, not that!!) -- if they had known in advance they were going to have 22 episodes in Season 2 they could have written (better) for that. But instead the extra eps were added on in the midst of production.
TheGardner
544. stacymd2
Hi All! I am sorry I have not been leaving comments. I have been busy at work and at home. I was sent this great quote by Natalie Portman (Elle UK) and I wanted to post it here. I felt it was important and it goes with what some of us have said regarding Bo’s role on Lost Girl. I just can’t stand the repeated claim that Bo wasn’t the “hero” in Season three and that she was weak because she didn’t actively “kick a$$” in the final episode.

Natalie on feminism:

I want every version of a woman and a man to be possible. I want women and men to be able to be full-time parents or full-time working people or any combination of the two. I want both to be able to do whatever they want sexually without being called names. I want them to be allowed to be weak and strong and happy and sad – human, basically. The fallacy in Hollywood is that if you’re making a "feminist" story, the woman kicks ass and wins. That’s not feminist, that’s macho. A movie about a weak, vulnerable woman can be feminist if it shows a real person that we can empathize with.”

When things ease up I’ll start posting again. Is anyone else still excited for Season four? Also, I’m loving Sleepy Hollow and Marvel’s Agents of S.H.E.I.L.D. right now. I’m also glad that Supernatural is back. What shows are you guys biding your time with until Lost Girl’s return?

I really think SyFy is making a big mistake not airing Lost Girl in November. I think their ratings will take a major dive.
TheGardner
545. Char
@stacymd2--I'm loving Sleepy Hollow. I'm in love with Ichabod Crane. I am also in love with Nathan from Haven, and of course, Dyson from Lost Girl. But tried watching Agents of Shield and couldnt get into it. I heard American Horror Story: The Coven is good. And check out The Witches of West End.
TheGardner
546. DarthFaeder
Well Well Well not sure if anyone here knows but a proper season 4 promo has been released and I think all the Dybo fans are going to like what they see. It seems Dyson is back in play. The promo can be found at E T Canada Lost Girl season 4 promo. Sorry I am really bad at posting websites but if you go to E T Canada you'll find it. Looks like the triangle is back in play. LOL good Lord the women is horny as hell. You'll see the obligitory Bo and Lauren kissing, then you'll see a Bo and Dyson kissing scene with Bo trying to take Dyson's shirt off, hahaha then you will see Bo waking up between two blondes!!!!! My God the women is insatiable. Kenzi and the morrigan make a quick appearance. No Tamsin, Hale, or Trick. She ( Bo )seems to be running around in the woods somewhere? Anyways it is a very fast video and gives nothing away except that the triangle is back in play apparently. We all know how they can make things look in a promo video. Still I did a glance into the L-chat and the doccubus crowd is in total spin mode. It's rather sad really. I suppose if they didn't act so entitled that Doccubus be endgame I would probably feel a tiny bit sorry for them but no sorry. They built doccubus up so high and now that it appears that the triangle is back in play, all those house of cards are coming down. Strangely they are now willing to talk about the flaws in the doccubus relationship that were so damn glaring to the rest of us. I suppose if it makes them feel better then more power to them. I won't laugh at their pain but I won't feel sorry for them either. Sadly some of them are suggesting that since we all know that sometime during season 4 Bo will develope amnesia, some are suggesting that maybe Bo is only kissing Dyson because she has amnesia? Sorry if I gave a spoiler away but I didn't think it was that big of a spoiler. Poor things they are just grasping for straws now. Anyways I knew you guys would be happy to hear the news. Like I said the video is super fast only I think 40 seconds.
TheGardner
547. Stacymd2
@Char: I also love Ichabod from Sleepy Hollow and Nathan & Duke from Haven. Regarding Haven, I just can't stand how Jordan is acting. Watching her scream at Nathan to kill himself is so unpleasant.

I want to get into AHS: The Coven, but I don't have the tv time available. I might check it out online when the season is over. I love bindge watching good shows.

@DarkFaeder: I too love watching Doccubus explode. I don't post on those sites. Most of them spiral into nastiness and name calling when you express a non Lauren worshipping view.

I use to be very heavily into soaps. Soap fans can get VERY nasty or "passionate" when discussing their favorite characters. We only see LG once a week for about 13 weeks. Soap fans see their stories 5-days a week for years. So you can imagine the dept of feelings soap fans develope. I have been on many soap sites & I can honestly say that the doccubus ship is much worse. I have NEVER seen soap fans do to an actor what some in the Doccubus ship tried to do to RS. Also, except for Bold & the Beautiful Taylor vs Broke fans, I have NEVER seen soap fans bully and be aggressive with others the way Doccuubus fans are with anyone who disagree with them.

This is why I read but don't post on other LG sites. I don't need the stress. I can understand why B&B's Taylor fans & Broke fans hate each other. That is a rivalry that spans decades. Doccubus, not so much.
TheGardner
548. Stacymd2
@DarthFaeder: Thank you for letting us know about the new promo. It is a lot better than the last one. I'm not holding out hope for B/D, because Bo kissed Dyson in S3 and look how that played out. EA has to keep up the appearance of B/D and the triangle in order to not loose fans. I'm still very happy to see B/D kiss, see Kenzi and the Morrigan. Let's hope we see another promo with Tamsin, Hale and Trick.

I have to check out the other LG sites now, just to watch doccubus explode. They are never happy. Even though B/L was prominent in the promo they are exploding because Dyson is in it.

I hope this new promo means that Bo will be exploring her succubus side. I loved the bit with Bo waking up with two blondes.
TheGardner
551. TheGardner
I figured some of you had seen the promo so we might have something new to talk about on here, then I remembered that promo's are misleading piles of crap designed to excite and tease hungry fans.

I agree @Staceymd2, the Bo/Dyson kiss looks like a feed. They are in what appears to be the cask room at the Dal and it has similar markings to their 3x04 hook-up; with Bo being the agressor and stripping him. I suspect that Bo is going to be a free agent this season, should that be the case I think it is pretty shitty of her to use him like a filling station when she knows that he is in love with her and pathetic on his part to allow it.
TheGardner
553. Char
@DarthFaeder: I found the promo on Youtube. And here is the link http://youtu.be/VkRUdIijgJA

The promo looks amazing. Dyson and Bo kissing each other looked great. Lauren and Bo looked ok. But I mean, why would Lauren kiss Bo, a woman who treated her so horribly. Pathetic. I guess pathetic can go both ways.
Annie Moore
554. drusilla_doll
I'm not sure Bo being sexually aggressive equates to only feeding time. In fact, it's one of the things I loved about Bo and Dyson, she was allowed to be as dominant as she wanted and didn't have to fear she would break him too easily like other humans.

It remains to be seen if this hook up is due to amnesia or a need to heal or whatever other spins people may put on Bo and Dyson getting intimate with each other. After all, as of right now, Bo is single and can get hot and heavy with whomever she chooses. (including two hot blondes, apparently ;) )

I for one will just be happy the Wolfman is getting to spend some alone time with the girl he gave his heart to. LOL Famous last words, I know.

I'm disappointed with Bo being all kissy-face with DL, however. Because it seems to indicate all the flaws and myriad realistic reasons B/L should never go there again are going to be swept under the rug again. I fear Kiersten is right and DL's S3 actions and decisions will be whitewashed or at least 'walked back' in order to keep the triangle in play.
Carmen Pinzon
555. bungluna
Loved the two blondes, hated WonderLauren, am exhausted by the Dyson feeds. I'm just tired. I'll wait and see.
Annie Moore
556. drusilla_doll
Believe me, I am not enamoured of WonderLauren either, but I think we're jumping the gun in assuming Bo is only kissing Dyson to feed.
TheGardner
557. TheGardner
@drusilla_doll - I wasn't trying to imply that Bo can't be agressive during sex without it being "food" related. The kiss scene in the promo takes place in public, not a bedroom and it mirrors the 3x04 hook-up scene in the police station. Just looking at their postures and the backdrop screams "feed" to me; obviously I haven't seen the episode that it takes place in so I could be way off base.
TheGardner
558. TheGardner
I am not sure if we are supposed to discuss the Showcase Webisodes(thank you to whoever uploaded it, damn geo-lock) so I won't spoil it per se, but after watching it Kuscles is my confirmed OTP. Those two, so effing cute...
Katherine Bloom
559. lsbloom
Assuming that Bo taking off her lover's clothing a) is aggressive or b) means it is only to feed seems really odd to me. I mean who wants to watch a sex scene were both parties stand away from each other and calmly unbutton their shirts and then come together...dullsville. Val was most definitely the aggressor in her hookup with Dyson, but he still erm...removed...her "clothing." The idea that Bo and Dyson, what is the word doccubus likes to use, oh yeah, were only F* buddies, is just on the rampage again. Bo liking someone who treats her like an equal, cares about her well-being, and backs her--sometimes rash--moves is too much for some fans. Whatever. Dyson is a pathetic, whiny, emo, no self-respect, domineering, mysognist who impinges on Bo's agency by having none of his own because he lets her use him like a "filling station."

Bo's the most important thing in Dyson's world, more important than his own person. If his daily actions didn't show that, the Norn did. So of course, he is going to do whatever he has to do to make sure she is okay, even if that hurts him. IMO that's noble. If that means he lets her feed no strings or sacrifices himself as her hand, he loves her. And he is happy protecting her.

@Staymd2 I agree the anger is extreme for the brevity of the show, but I really think it comes down to representation and self-identifying to a high degree with Lauren. I don't want to speculate about Zoie Palmer's sexuality, but many fans do/are/have. They identify with her. They see a character oustide of the way she is written based on their own life experience. When doccubus started to explode, they didn't side with Bo. Bo is the immature bad girl friend who ignored Lauren. And they take it personally when people don't like her.
TheGardner
560. whiskeywhite
@lsbloom, I agree with every single word of your analysis of the identification of Doccubus folks with Lauren. Right on.
Linda Losik
561. LindaL
A few random thoughts: I refuse it get excited over a promo for Lost Girl because I (read we) have been so incredibly disappointed with seasons two and three promos. Bo’s dark side was never explored and for the second season promo, just what did the white box in the room with all of the flowing curtains have to do with season two????? Although after doing some serious lurking into the “other” websites, I must confess to being highly amused; I really get the feeling that unless the sainted DL is made not only the central point of the show but with Bo in loving adoration, they will whine.

Quick Question: What is the difference between a new puppy and Team Doccubus???? You can eventually get the puppy to shut up. Unkind I know, sorry, but also true.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
562. Kiersten
It's absolutely natural for *anyone* to identify with characters in a television show or movie or any piece of dramatic art. That's one of the beautiful (to me) interactions of life and art. And it's what keeps people connected to a show, often long after said show has gone totally off the rails. We all see some part of ourselves in high school in either Buffy or Willow or Xander, which is why that construct worked so well for Whedon to update with the horror element. For example, nearly every teenage girl knows or at least has heard of a guy who was the best boyfriend ever turning into a monster once the girl gives in and has sex with him. Whedon took that to the next step and made Angel an actual monster (Angelus).

The difficulty comes when that identification reaches a point when any objection against the character or situation with which a person identifies is taking as a personal slur against self. These are fictional characters and we love them and root for them (or against them) because we can do so without penalty as they're not real. But when real-world people lose sight of that (on either side of the fandom lines) and attack any and all who don't agree with them within real-world environments, that's when I find virulent fandom becomes truly scary. And when those lines between character and actor blur...

Which is another reason why I don't read other forums or web sites about Lost Girl. I don't need whatever negativity there may be directed against me specifically to get in my head, and some of the extreme responses on Syfy, Showcase and other genralized forums have reached a point that's quite scarey IMO. I prefer to play it safe and steer clear.

As for the promo, I agree we've been majorly deceived by them before. That is actually the entire point of a promo trailer...to tempt you to turn in no matter what the actual outcome may be. That said, the scene with Dyson in the cask room doesn't indicate Bo sporting any injury that would require feeding from him. They've always had that raw passion between them long before they fell in love and it's good to see that hasn't gone away. It wouldn't be the first time she's jumped him just for jumping's sake, and I doubt it'll be the last. The current attitude amongst some is to denigrate any and all interaction between Bo and Dyson to be banging alone or for power and that conviently dismisses the extreme emotion between them in The Dal at the end of Ceremony and basically all of S1 and most of S2. But again, it's a promo and ultimately means very, very little. I do think that S4 will have Bo equally unaligned in her personal life and living up the succubus life. Whether this is a conscious choice or one dictated by whatever happened to her between the end of S3 and the start of S4 remains to be seen.

I found Bo's predatory expression (which always creeps me out more than any of her other succubus meins) when kissing DL more indicative of her feed personae than anything else in that promo. DL was obviously enraptured, but I fully expected Bo to open her eyes and have them be succubus blue, and not in a good way. I have a hard time watching it for long though, b/c it does seem to show that despite everything she said and did in S3, to Dyson and Sunitha especially, DL is back in Bo's loving graces & that blatant hypocrisy of having DL skate by AGAIN is difficult for me to stomach. Although, maybe *that's* the amnesia episode (though I don't know where that rumor came from) and Bo's forgotten everything for a while which is why DL looks so relieved...
Annie Moore
563. drusilla_doll
@TheGardner: I love Bruce and Kenzi too! How/where can I find the webisodes? They sound like a fun way to warm up for the upcoming season.

As for the potential sex scene being in the Dal, I for one find the idea of it being semi-public sort of exciting - perhaps they picked it for nostalgic reasons, who knows, or it was the closest place handy when they got the urge to jump each other. Your mileage may vary, of course. ;) They did seem to enjoy sexing it up at the police station in season one too. Those assignations weren't feeds but during their 'pretending to be only friends with benefits' phase.
TheGardner
564. Stacymd2
@TheGardner: I was going to ask here about the webisodes. Does anyone know where we can watch them non geo blocked?
Do we discuss them here or will there be another post just for the webisodes?

@The Gardner & LindaL: I'm not going to read anything into the promos. I'm just glad Lost Girl put out new footage with my favs in it. The S2 & 3 promos did not deliver on anything in their resulting seasons.

For all we know, the kisses between B/L and/or B/D are part of a dream sequence and mean nothing.

@drusillaDoll: I think it is a given that Lauren's S3 actions and the Karen thing will be whitewashed and "walked back".

@Isbloom: ZP does not talk about her sexuality, but she does not "hide" it either. A quick Google search and anyone can know. I agree that some of the doccubus fan base identifies with ZP and feel protective of her and her character, despite how Lauren is actually written.

I still feel that they are being extreme-- to put it mildly. I know QaF and the L Word was a long time ago, but I don't remember this kind of vitriol and extreme reactions to any of the couples on those shows. A number of the actors on both those shows are LGBTQ.

I think it is a combination of the Internet, social media and the nature of shipping in this day & age. The Internet allows people to have no filter and do it with out being identified. Social media allows like minded people to obsess together. Shipping has become like a blood sport, as if there can actually be a "winner".

Going back to the comparison to soaps, there is just something about love relationships/rivalries that get people worked up. On One Life To Live, the Viki - Dorian rivalry is epic. They have done hateful things to each other over decades, but there is some respect between their fans and an acknowledgement from both sides that neither woman is innocent, evil, or always in the right. Their rivalry has mostly NOT centered around a man (love rivalry). On Bold & the beautiful, the Taylor - Broke rivalry has only been about men (love). I read a blog recap once where the writer would only refer to Broke as "that whore".

The way the doccubus fans carry on you would think LG was a deep show with Lauren as it's lead and the other characters (except Dyson) are fully developed characters that people have gotten to know over many years. You'd think evil Dyson is holding Bo back in every way and keeping B/L from really being together. Bo is an immature brat when she is not in a relationship with Lauren. Lauren silently saves everyone all the time (like the girl and dog in the Insector Gadget cartoon) and none of the other characters acknowledges it or respects her brilliance.

The reality is that none of this is true, which is why I think the doccubus base is beyond aggressive & extreme--relating to ZP personally is no excuse. Also, there are programs on right now with gay characters: PLL, Glee, the Fosters, the real L Word, Jersey Strong, etc. (this is not even counting web shows and shows like Bomb Girls that were recently canceled.). Is there the same level of bullying online for those shows?
TheGardner
566. Char
@Stacymd2---Awesome comments.

The promo was cool where she is in a fluffy dress and running through the faerest.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
567. Kiersten
Can't see the faerest for all of the...flowing white dresses?

If you look a little more closely, it seems to me that Anna is visibly pregnant in those running shots but then that kind of high-waist dress can falsely lend that impression too. Otherwise, I'd guess they filmed that bit long before started filming S4
Annie Moore
568. drusilla_doll
I was wondering about that, but put it down to the cut of the dress emphasising her belly more than normal. But if they filmed it early it would also make sense.

An example of doccubus spin right now is that the promo cuts to Bo/Dyson when she says 'sometimes it's lust'. Clearly Dyson is just a fuck buddy whereas Lauren is the soulmate/love of her life.

But actually, if you watch it carefully, she says the line while it shows her kissing Lauren, then Dyson. The cut to the Dal scene is well after the word lust is introduced and thus I take it to mean both Lauren and Dyson are who she goes to for passion/lust. 'Sometimes it's survival' is mostly of her running in the forest. 'Sometimes it just is' shows her in bed with the two cute blondes.

I like the premise of the promo over-all, but doubt it is any big indication of how the season will go. I, for one, would be perfectly happy with her being single and fancy free for a while. Girl's got a lot on her plate.
Katherine Bloom
569. lsbloom
Yeah, the promo line "sometimes it's lust" is while she's kissing Lauren. Then, it cuts to Dyson and Bo. Which made me laugh because I knew the fandom was going to go crazy reading into it.

But really, I think the promo is about the status quo: triangle, sex, Bo in the middle. They aren't telling us anything. And they are trying super hard to make Bo the solitary leading lady. Which is hard for me because I liked her team ups with Kenzi, her vulnerability, how she plays with the rest of the cast. I don't find it that compelling when she goes off by herself. Thinking back, it is really the plots without Kenzi or the team that I dislike the most, which is most of season 3.
Annie Moore
570. drusilla_doll
For me, the bff ship is and will remain a huge reason why I watch the show. I was disappointed with last season because Kenzi seemed so marginalized, mostly due to Bo spending so much of the early season ignoring her for Lauren, then Tamsin didn't help them reconnect. Hopefully this season there will be more team ups with the besties, or at least some drama where they address Kenzi's self-esteem issues regarding her being 'only a human'.
TheGardner
571. TheGardner
@drusilla_doll- The fun and excitement of public sex aside, I would hope that Bo has a little more class/respect than to bang someone in the backroom of her grandfather's bar unless it is healing related. When they engaged in those activities before it was prior to the grandfather reveal. As for the webisodes, youtube baby.
Katherine Bloom
572. lsbloom
Wow, way to steer clear of the slut shaming there.
Annie Moore
573. drusilla_doll
To be fair, The Gardner did say 'the fun and excitement of public sex aside' and was referring to not doing it there in respect to Trick being her grandfather. But Trick's going to be in Scotland isn't he? Although, maybe not, since it would be hard to have scenes with him over there and very removed from Bo and co.
TheGardner
574. Char
Interesting, Bo running the ought the forest was when she was pregnant. She looks amazing.

@drusilladoll--I can't wait. But I'm questioning why Lost Girl showrunners has not shown more with Lauren and Bo. Especially with the vocal minority Doccubus. Something is not right with Lauren and Bo. I just have a feeling.

@TheGardner--I'm hoping that Bo becomes a succubus and starts sucking and banging wherever she happens to be. I would say the only place she should not bang is with her lovers in her other lovers room. All In!

Has there been a sart date for Lost Girl on syfy? I know Helix is starting in January 2014.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
575. Kiersten
There has been no official announcement of U.S. debut of Lost Girl on Syfy but it's typically the second or third week of January. I would expect it to be partnered with either Helix, Being Human, or Bitten. Personally, I would love to have it back to back with Bitten.
Annie Moore
576. drusilla_doll
For those of us who can't watch the webisode on youtube, here is a youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJy_8t55yEk

They really are adorable. A delightful scene.