Tue
Jun 18 2013 12:00pm

Holding Out Through the Hiatus: Speculation on Lost Girl Season 4

Lost Girl's Anna Silk and Ksenia Solo as Bo and KenziIt’s a long hiatus to Season 4 of Lost Girl, scheduled to premiere in the U.S. in January 2014. That doesn’t stop us from speculating on what might be afoot in Faeville next season. After the long suffering of having to endure season three’s disappointing and ultimately failed Doccutopia, the season ended with a literal bang with all players (save Doctor Lauren) in jeopardy and tossed to the far winds.

Word is that Season 4 starts right up from where Season 3 ended: Bo off somewhere with a now red-headed Wanderer. Dyson and Tamsin saved from their Thelma and Louise cliff dive as they were swept from the truck by The Black Smoke right before impact. Kenzi and Bruce hunting down the druid, Massimo, so Kenzi can maybe become Fae. A hunted Trick running off to Scotland with Stella. A newly-dethroned Hale finally chasing after Kenzi amidst what looks to be the beginnings of another Great Fae War. Or is it a Fae vs. Human War? The Dal blown up!

With their first table read on Friday, May 31st, the cast began filming Season 4 on Monday, June 3rd. Rick Howland, Ksenia Solo, Kris Holden-Ried, KC Collins, and Paul Amos all had call times last week. Anna Silk has a delayed start due to some recent “giving birth” excuse (lame). No word yet on whether or not Zoie Palmer’s had her first day on set.

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Announcement for guest stars in the season have already been made.

As seen in KHR’s tweet, Season 4, Episode 1 is entitled “In Memoriam,” which doesn’t instill a lot of confidence. Given that The Wanderer is speculated to be not only Bo’s father, but also the god Odin who can bring people back to life, he could be flexing some power muscle by killing and reviving our Not-So-Merry-Band-Of-Fae to prove a point. As Aoife spewed in the Season 3 finale, “If your father was here, he would kill them all! And then resurrect them and kill them again!”

I, for one, am going to have big problems making it through another Dyson death scene. Not that he’s necessarily on the chopping block, but we all know how the show and everyone on it loves to offer up the wolf man first. But that’s what the rum and whipped-cream flavored vodka is for, right?

It’s easy to speculate on what could, would, or might happen in the upcoming season, a speculation that’s only fueled by unconfirmed rumors like the recent one about Kris Holden-Ried taking tango lessons for an upcoming episode (be still my locomotive heart). But it’s nearly impossible to know anything of merit for sure. Just look at the H&H Season 3 speculation post; hardly anything hypothesized there actually happened. Is that going to stop me from compiling another wish list for Season 4? Surely you know me better than that by now!

More Kenzi. More Kenzi with Bo. More Kenzi with Dyson. More of the three of them together, working that great dynamic that truly makes the show sparkle.

Get back to the mythology. Let’s see more inner workings of the Fae. Not outside threats who never measure up to their billing (like The Garuda) or Rights of Passage that go nowhere (The YDawning). Bring us the Fae politics and cultural missteps that made this show so dynamic and interesting in the first place. Bring back the Urban Fantasy we fell for in season one and evolve it to fit the characters growth, or lack thereof, that’s happened since.

Backstory. We’ve had rich hints of characters backstories, Kenzi, Dyson, and Trick particularly, but little follow through. What happened to Dyson after he left the lupine brotherhood? What events caused him to be so loyal to Trick? I want a flashback episode that explores those ties. How does Kenzi’s Russian family affect her current Fae-related life? She hasn’t called on her cousin to get anything off a truck since mid-Season 2. Those connections made life-or-death difference to her and Bo’s cases once-upon-a-time when they had cases. Where are they now? And what else might lurk in the past of the Blood King? How has Hale’s snotty family reacted to his ascension and subsequent dethroning as The Ash? Can he go back to being a detective after being so close to ruling? Enquiring, insatiable minds want to know!

Having said that, can we please get back to the Fae-related cases of the day? And not the egregious, exploitative likes of Caged Fae and Fae Wide Shut either. If I never see episodes of that ilk again, it’ll still be too soon. Much like Kenzi’s humanity makes Bo a better fae, so do the cases of the week illuminate the staid and often brutal nature of Fae society as Bo is constantly forced to make hard decisions based on what she wants and/or believes in and what Faedom demands of her. We’ve lost the core character conflict that is Bo: how does her human upbringing influence her increasingly Fae-aligned nature?  How does her insistence on remaining officially unaligned (even though she is actually, in all things, Light Fae) continue to shake up the Fae status quo?

There needs to be a Come to Jesus scene between Trick and Aoife. Hell, a whole episode. Get it done.

I’m looking forward to whatever is in the works for Tamsin. Her adrenaline shot to the series has been welcomed and her interactions with Bo and Dyson particularly have room for rich character development. Not to mention her yet-to-be-fully-revealed back story and connection to Bo. I think she’ll turn out to be Bo’s half-sister and I love the possibilities that connection could create. An actress has been cast to play a teenaged Tamsin, so hopefully that means flashbacks to the Valkyrie’s past. Either way, the dynamic Rachel Skarsten brings to the show has been delicious and I, for one, am very glad she’ll be back for Season 4.

Team Badass back together. It’s BEYOND time for that to happen. Drawing it out any longer is just absurd and delaying gratification for delay's sake. I was locked on Lost Girl for good from the moment Bo and Dyson first hooked up. To me, that indicated that this show at least would not follow the tired trope of drawing out the “will they or won't they” sexual scenario so that it could focus on the more important relationship aspects of their union. Only every other season since has succumbed to such tired storytelling shenanigans. Let’s return to the ethos that made this show so addictive and revolutionary in the first place, a true lack of shaming for all romantic relationships on Lost Girl, and that begins and ends with Team Badass reunited.

More Vex. Come on! It’s Vexalicious!

Stop retconning Doctor Lauren’s back story. The huge “Karen Beattie” misstep must be rectified and then, for the love of her lab coat, give the woman a rest. There are only so many hoops you can create for her to jump through before it gets beyond ridiculous, and I think we hit that point somewhere around the whole Afghanistan thing. She had a key position ancillary to the day-to-day goings on, a clinical expertise that came to the fore when needed with a dodginess to her character that prohibited her from being completely pigeon-holed. Shoehorning in an adventurous past that never fit with the character on the screen just to make her a more viable love interest has only served to ruin the complex character she once was. Personally, I would love to see her in opposition to the Fae, because I think she’s much more interesting when her true, questionable character isn’t stifled just to keep her available to bang Bo. She’s out there now with Dyson’s stolen DNA. She has the dead Taft’s resources and funding at hand. Having realized it true toxic nature, she has deliberately ended and willfully trashed her relationship with Bo. She’s been betrayed by a human she trusted, a man who’d given her hope for a new, Fae-free future. She is majorly pissed off. There is a rich, intriguing story to be explored if only somebody has the guts to write it.

Dear writers: please watch previous seasons of your show before attempting to write new episodes.  I beg you. We are smart and savvy viewers. We know what happened.  Honor Lost Girl’s established history rather than blithely and ignorantly changing it without care and we promise to think better of you. At least for that. Also, embrace the notion of balance. Don’t drag out the action and then cram it all into the last two episodes of the season so that the overall takeaway is a bewildered sense of abundant plot holes. Two seasons like that is far too much as it is.

Finally, let Bo be Bo. Confining her to romantic shenanigans with Doctor Lauren has transformed her into a whining, self-centered, borderline obnoxious “hero.” All too often, her actions and responses have come too close to too stupid to live when not being border line amoral. Bring back the take-no-prisoners hero she was, the, dare I say it, champion for her Faemily and those the Fae would subjugate under their antiquated notions of superiority. It’s hard to root for the lead of the show when you so often want to whack her upside the head for being a dumbass.

Do you have hopes or fears for Season 4? Speculate away in the comments below!

Editor's note: A cookie (okay, just a virtual one, but still) to anyone who got the Veronica Mars reference in the photo caption!

 


Kiersten Hallie Krum writes smart, sharp & sexy romantic suspense. Find her snarking her way across social media as @kierstenkrum and on her web site and blog at www.kierstenkrum.com.

 

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653 comments
Marie Sullivan
1. Minime
Great post! I have to think on this one you brought up so many good points.
ernestine henry
2. ernestine henry
Just a few thoughts, 1st fix what ya screwed after the 1st 4-5 episodes in s3 the finale wasn't as good as some folks say. Bring back the team, lauren has proved herself to handle any character give her the respect she's earned she is one of your main characters stop giving Tamsin all the screen time put doccubus back together. And one last thing someone commented that Bo was to whinny with lauren, if thats the case she was just as whinny with dyson. Everything was working well for the show until your writers dissed kenzi,lauren,hales screen time for tamsin. If tamsin is supposed to be dyson partner then stop having her chase after bo like some puppy in heat. Stop changing things that have been working for the show.
Carmen Pinzon
4. bungluna
I want back an Urban Fantasy show, not the bad soft-core homaging soap opera we got last season. And for the love of sanity, get a continuity editor to let your dimwit writers know when they are screwing up some previously established cannon! Other than that, what Kiersten said.
Marie Sullivan
5. Minime
Oh, and can we mention the lack of men in season 3, it wasn't until episode 12 that it hit me how terribly unbalanced season 3 was with the men seemingly banished to the land of misfit toys. I don't want to watch Wonder-woman and the Amazons nor do I want to see a show about a heroine in a female dominated world. I want a balanced team with Dyson, Hale, Vex and Bruce fighting alongside our ladies.
Nicole Leapheart
6. BoxyFrown
Yes to everything-except I feel weird about Tam being Bo's sister since they have sucked face a couple of times. They are connected in some way, and I am dying to find out what that connection is.

I totally agree that there was such an awesome formula with Bo and Kenzi super-sluething through the fae underworld, and Dyson/Hale coming in with the assist as needed...Team Badass in the house!

I love Vex and I also agree it would be so nice to get some backstory in on all of these wonderful fae that have become so close to us.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
7. Kiersten
@BoxyFrown - I agree the face sucking would be weird if there was a sister/relative connection, except each time Bo and Tamsin have kissed, (with the exception of spin-the-bottle Tamsin whose teenage self conceivably would not know about any supposed familal connection) Tamsin, who has the superior knowledge on Bo on this sitch, has visibly been grossed out. She was extremely reluctant to power Bo up in The Kenzi Factor and only did it b/c of the dire circumstances. She gets off on the power rush when they do, sure, but there is an constant disgust in her demeanor for having done it. The kiss in Brazenwood doesn't count as, in that case, they were merely the mystical expression for what was happening between Trick and Stella, all four of them connected through the machine's power.
Suzanne Metaxas
8. SuzyM
Have to disagree with the comment that Tamsin took over the screen time of everyone else. Also Bo was never whinney when she was with Dyson, only became whinny when she lost him. Lauren & Bo are just a bad fit. Lauren herself said Bo can't give her what she needs and wants. Lauren left Bo not the other way around.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
9. Kiersten
@Minime - I know! Bring on the men, already! They are so awesome in so many ways, after all. Too much weight on either side of the gender divide always makes for imbalance and we really felt the lack of the men on screen in season three all right, especially Hale and Trick. And you know I can never have too much Dyson. Such a thing does not exist.

They all seem to be on set and ready to rock on S4, tho! Here's hoping that trend continues throughout the filming!
ernestine henry
10. nypinta
Plus, given fae dna and whatnot, siblings hooking up might not be looked down upon in their society. They aren't human after all.

What I want from season 4: arc, consistency, less tell more show, backstories backstories backstories. Not sure if they can go back to the fae monster of the week format, but having her and Kenzi take on an occassional case wouldn't hurt. I'd also like to see Bo move up in fae society. Or move up in any society! She's royalty FFS. She wants to live outside certain rules because she wants to live her own life, by why does that have to mean she can't be successful at it? Why can't she live in a house with some frikken walls by now? Her and Kenzi must be doing something right since they both seem to have insane wardrobe allowance. The hovel, while fun, has proven time and again not to be a place of safety. She needs more secure digs. I think it'd be hilarious if she found a place on some fae negating ley lines (like Heccuba) so that if anyone is sent against her has to rely on their wits because their power would be gone. (Actually, WTF didn't Trick build The Dal on something like that? Would have saved everyone soooooooo much trouble. ;P ) I'm not sure if I want Kenzi to become fae. Not that I think she'll be readily accepted even if Massimo could pull something like that off. Especially since they had that option with the Norn rash and they wasted it. It's like going over old ground. Nor do I want Lauren to use Dyson's DNA on herself. At all. If they want her at odds with the fae, fine. Not sure how a love triangle (which the writers have said will continue) can continue if Lauren is on the outs with the fae though in the way she is now, which is basically as a target. Some walk back is going to have to be done. Just not that. Not a hybrid. Docu-brid?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
11. Kiersten
I'm totally against both Kenzi becoming Fae AND the doc using Dyson's DNA on herself. I'm just saying, the way S3 ended, both possibilities have to be addressed, even if just to show Kenzi finally coming to terms with being the human element in her faemily and being at peace in that role. And while I always assume the show will walk back anything that could possilby make the doc actually be held accountable for everything she's done, it would be refreshing if, for once, they followed through on one of her many deceptions missteps in the series.
Not sure how a love triangle (which the writers have said will continue) can continue if Lauren is on the outs with the fae though in the way she is now, which is basically as a target.
Sigh. I know. It practically guarantees a walk back, doesn't it? Too bad no one seems brave enough to let doccubus to proceed to it's natural, organic conclusion now that both Bo and Doctor Lauren have admitted to each other and themselves that, despite their genuine feelings for each other, a relationship between them just doesn't and can't ever work. And the only way I see moving DL back into good standing with the Fae is to force the fiction that she was actually helping Dyson when she subjected him to a brutal procedure against his will and stole the very fabric of his cellular make up down our throats as backwards, retconned truth, which would make me Hulk Smash like damn and wow. Not that it would make any difference, mind you.

I have to agree with the idea of gettting Bo to accept her freaking position somewhere. Or at least more openly struggle with it. I assume the clothes and takeout and any other costs of daily living come from Bo succujuicing the relevant shop keepers, delivery boys etc into giving her what she wants, but then there's a shaky moral line there that's not being addresssed too. I'm probably expecting too much again from LG, aren't I?
Marie Sullivan
12. Minime
I'd also like to see Bo move up in fae society. Or move up in any society! She's royalty FFS. She wants to live outside certain rules because she wants to live her own life, by why does that have to mean she can't be successful at it? Why can't she live in a house with some frikken walls by now?
I totally agree with this that Kenzi has grown and Bo seems to be growing enough to accept that she is fae and I would love to see them get a better place, not a house like they were looking at in The Witches of Fae but perhaps a girly version of Dyson's pad. I want to see her accept her fae-ness on her own terms and shake up the "system" a bit.

As for the MOTW's if they don't start taking cases and she has found her father then what more is there for them to do in the series? I fear the writers have taken so many missteps at this point that they have effectively ended the series with season 4.


I would also like a change in wardrobe, specifically I would like to know what happened to Kenzi's wigs! We saw one in Fae's Wide shut and another in Caged Fae and nothing else :( Oh!! and I want to burn the backwards belt, the awful blouse Lauren wore in The Ceremony, and the overall "joke" of the boob phone and Bo only wearing black has got to end, unless they find interesting pieces all in black. As much as I hated the jacket in 3x13 I also liked that it was different and i would love to see Bo is cool pieces along those lines.
I'm probably expecting too much again from LG, aren't I?
I think we all are, doccubi and team badass alike. I will say after watching Orphan Black I have grown very unhappy with the LG writers. After watching a really good dark, sexy, fun and dramatic sci-fi show I see that LG suffers from bad writing and could be amazing if they had the right behind the scenes people. The actors are amazing but the BTS people are lacking and knowing that LG had all these great Orphan Black people and let them go is disheartening.
ernestine henry
13. Vtowers
Everything was working well for the show until your writers dissed kenzi,lauren,hales screen time for tamsin. If tamsin is supposed to be dyson partner then stop having her chase after bo like some puppy in heat. Stop changing things that have been working for the show.
I am assuming that what you really meant to say is give DL more screentime and go back to Doccubus (ep. 1-5). Because I think everyone is pretty aware that Hale's absence was due to K.C being on another show and therefore not as available and Kenzi had more screentime than Tamsin if the chart going around is to be trusted. Not that I want less of any of those two on this season mind you or want Tamsin to have more than any other character, I'm just kinda sick of this same complaint which is mostly made by DL fans. A lot of us thought Lauren was taking up screentime in season 2 and that her story is pretty much done but we didn't go around campagning for her on every possible venue to have less screentime or blame all ills of the season on her. Also what does Tamsin being Dyson's partner has to do with her being taken by Bo? you make it sound like those two are mutually exclusive. Can you elaborate?

Kiersten! Great job as usual always a pleasure to read you!
This are a few tid bits of info I've gathered regarding the new season:

I have been following the casts tweets and I am inclined to believe Dyson was not smoked up by The Wanderer since he seems to be working mostly with Ksenia, Paul and K.C. Some crew member also posted a picture on twitter of a drunk person in a cemetery where they were working, another person tweeted something about a run down dinner, Mia Kirshner was already on set but I guess we don't know if they are filming episodes in order because of Anna. GT said he would play a charming villain, and there's a character named Selene who apparently has screentime with Dyson. Rachel stated in an interview that Tamsins investment in Bo goes way back before Bo was even born (which intrigues me to no end)
It does seem like everyone is on set by now even Anna according to tweets with the exception of ZP and RS. Well that's all my obssesed mind can remember.

Oh and I take anything EA says with a grain of salt but when she said about so many death scenes I just pictured the Wanderer killing and ressurecting Tamsin all over again as payback.

P.S I wouldn't mind Tamsin being Bo's sister, I actually like the idea a lot but as contrived as their "kisses" have been I feel it happened a little too much so it does make it a little uncomfortable but I actually hope they are, maybe people can stop complaning about her if that's the case.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
14. Kiersten
@VTowers - thanks for the info. I have a bunch of the cast and crew on my Twitter feed, but I'm clearly missing the ones as I missed the diner tidbits and I do love me a skeevy diner (Jersey Girl cred). It does seem that RS & ZP have not been on set yet. I assumed it was b/c their first scenes are probably with Anna , who's only just returned, which doesn't make me happy as it implies that they're going to pull DL's ass out of the consequences-for-her-actions fire again, but then I tend to be overly pessimistic on that end at this point to begin with.

I know KHR, KS, KCC & PA have been rocking it on set these last two weeks, which I love b/c they're all so great together. It seems Ksenia has been worked particularly hard, which makes me wonder, wonder, wonder. Wasn't Selene the name of the woman who was the hart for the hunt to declare a new Ash in S2? Hmmm. Still, I'll never be truly content or satistfied with LG again until Bo & Dyson are back together. I want the long promised payoff they (and we!) have earned and deserve and I want it now.

I too think the death scenes are The Wanderer killing & resurrecting people, and I guess it could just be Tamsin over & over again. I took EA's "so many death scenes" tweet as to mean many people, but it absolutely could be Tamsin over and over again too.

January is just too far away!!
Marie Sullivan
15. Minime
I have been following the casts tweets and I am inclined to believe Dyson was not smoked up by The Wanderer since he seems to be working mostly with Ksenia, Paul and K.C.
I agree that Dyson was not smokenapped and I have been intrigued by all the tweets and pic from the set. Seeing Hale in his hat makes me think he is Dyson's partner again and that makes me so happy to get their bromance back onscreen plus I want to see some Hale & Kenzi loving. I can only assume Tamsin died but gets resurrected by "him" and returns with Bo around episode 3 or 4. My guess with Lauren is that they needed Dyson around to "clear her name" and walk back the story they told in 3x13 AND to stop what should be the organic growth of Bo & Dyson escaping from "him" and returning together with a even stronger bond. We are also seeing a lot of Vex on set and YAY I am dying to know what deal he struck with Hale.

With the "so many deaths" quote I was thinking that with no ash and the morrigan being forced to do the electric slide by Vex in a dungeon the light and dark may start fighting for territory. I really do like the idea of the so many death scenes being "him" punishing Tamsin or it could also be "him" teaching Bo how her powers work and we can get a really evil training montage....
ernestine henry
16. whiskeywhite
Great speculations, Kiersten, with insightful reflections, as always. And again as always, equally interesting comments from you folks.

But first I must ask, Kiersten, is that "rum and whipped-cream flavored vodka" rum spiked with whipped-cream flavoured vodka? Or vodka with rum and whipped cream flavouring? I vote for the former.

Don't have any earth-skaking speculations (plus I suck at it), just a few comments. Killing and resurrecting Tamsin wouldn't be punishment. That's her natural life cycle, which she has presumably gone through a number of times already -- to die and be resurrected as a new-born once again strong Valkyrie. We need her to die and be resurrected; she was staggering and falling over with weakness at the end of Season 3. She couldn't possibly go on like that. Seeing her at full strength would be fascinating.

I agree that making Kenzi fae would not be a good direction for the show. Her status as an outsider because she's human who is nonetheless accepted, and indeed loved, as an insider is what makes her most special. (One of my favourite scenes from Season 3 is in "Ceremony" when Trick reassures Kenzi that should Bo not return, she will always have a place with him. Awww). Bruce (dear Bruce) has already warned Kenzi that going to Massimo to become fae is a REALLY BAD idea. The plan has 'disaster' written all over it. The furthest I would go is her becoming temporarily fae and then it wearing off or failing in some way. Some experience that would make her disallusioned about having fae powers. When she had the magic shillelagh stuck to her hand, they made it seem way too much fun. But interestingly, she gave up that power (and the responsibilities that came with it). They could do something similar again.

It's a given that Lauren and the triangle will be back. Don't ask me how. The only way they can make a renewed relationship between Lauren and Bo work is to give up the G-D insistence on 'monogamy as true love.' I would love to see more Lauren back story -- bring me 'Lauren (Karen) the protester for scientific autonomy' any day. We don't really have Wikileaks-type struggles in Canada, but there have been a number of major cases of scientists being muzzled, and fired, by our (right-wing, anti-science) federal government and by corporate-funded universities. Some of them have gone on to become protesters and whistle-blowers, trying to defend scientific integrity by, for e.g., revealing evidence of harmful pharmaceutical side effects that was being suppressed through their being silenced. Instead of the 'nerd' jokes, let us see again the Lauren who was a principled scientist and doctor.

'Nuff for tonight.
ernestine henry
17. whiskeywhite
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend the happily monogamous among us (I am one myself) with my overly strong language. My point is, c'mon, Bo is a succubus. If Dyson is willing to give up monogamy, why can't others (including Bo herself)?
ernestine henry
18. nypinta
I think Bo's insistence for a monogamous relationship is a result of her human upbringing. That was how she was raised, it's what she knows, and it will probably be one of the last things to go as she accepts being fae completely. As for Lauren, they're going to have to do something with that Karen background bull. I still want it to be a fae plant so they can just forget the whole thing, but it doesn't excuse any of her actions in Season 3. (Except I maintain that the fae pretty much suck and it was badly handled by making Taft so batshit insane just so we would empathize with the fae. The fae are not good people. There are good among the fae, but they suck hard. I wanted that addressed but they ignored it.) The only way I can see that Lauren gets brought back into the fae fold is a political move only. A cover up, I guess. Because it would make the Light look seriously weak that one of their slaves could do so much damage. But with out Hale as Ash, who is the one that could make that decision? Or are things in such chaos that no one bothers to go after Lauren for a while? As for Kenzi... yeah, I don't know. She needs the Stick of Righteousness back. That's all the fae power she needs. But I like Massimo, even though he is Dark. Of course, I still like Ryan. I would prefer I guess if the show was better at intergrating the much larger cast of character they have created rather than have so many small seperate stories with these people. (Although they probably can't afford to pay them to be semi regular characters.) And as far as Tamsin taking up so much screen time, she had to as her role of the one after Bo. It was her job. I would have liked maybe Kenzi being more mouthy about it though. She's always got Bo's best intentions at the forefront of her mind, you'd think she'd be the one wondering why Tamsin is always around. BTW, I don't think it's too much to expect what we do from the writers in terms of quality. Which is why I get so frustrated when there are simple fixes for some of the story problems. They have a stunning cast, great characters, whoever makes the sets rock completely, I like 90% of the wardrobe... whoever else was complaining about Bo alwasy wearing black I offer you a fist bump of solidarity! I miss her wearing normal cloths ever though she is a very much not normal girl. I liked that juxtopostion. (Also, in episode one of season one, she had a blue car which was much cooler than her yellow car. Where'd that go?? Let her have nice things dammit!!) Also for some reason my laptop won't let me make seperate paragraphs. Sorry.
ernestine henry
19. whiskeywhite
I agree that we need better cases of the week. To be fair, they had them in Season 3, but they were largely BORING (when they weren't offensive like, I agree, "Caged Fae"). In the boring camp were the cases of the malevolent trapped-in-a-well spirit in "There's Bo Place Like Home", the kidnapped crying Squonk in "Fae-ge Against the Machine," the suburban witches in "Adventures in Fae-bysitting," and most hilariously the overgrown muppet/grass clippings pile in "Deliquents". But I have to say that while the Piper of Hamelin in "SubterrFaenean" was himself boring, I really liked Atticus and the mystery was engaging. The ear-worm problem in "Confaegion" was fun, though it wasn't Bo solving the mystery (Kenzi played a big role). Bo did figure out that 'the cat did it' in "Fae-de to Black." I have to admit that the latter being heavily Dyson focused did much to heighten my interest :-). It's an interesting question as to whether Bo and Kenzi can go back to just being private eyes (I was tempted to write 'private dicks' but that would be so wrong).

I, too, definitely want to see Kenzi and Hale get together. Did we ever believe they would allow that to happen? But I'm now so distrustful that I wonder if they'll thwart that happy reunion. Or will they drag it out even more by putting new barriers in their way? At least he's no longer The Ash, so that pesky political problem of 'I did not have sexual relations with that human' is gone.

I don't think there will be a fae war against the humans (but remember that sucky predictions problem). I think that the capture of The Morrigan by Vex will have brought that threat to an end. But having said that, there will have to be 'the revenge of The Morrigan' or that (w0nderful) character will not be able to continue (in addition to her evil snark, I would greatly miss her dresses).

Must go and do some actual work -- cruel boss making me work on Sunday :-). Truth -- I offered.
ernestine henry
20. whiskeywhite
nypinta, I agree that Bo's insistence on a monogamous relationship is a result of her human upbringing. But I think it's more than that. It is, of course, a plot device to ensure on-going and deep tension within the triangle. No monogamy, no triangle problems. But it's also a reflection, I think, of the perceived, and probably accruately so, views of the majority of the audience. LG is progressive on: sex is good, sex between women is fine (even good, less so between men), but that's as far as their sexual politics go. As a teacher of 20-something women and men, I am often struck these days by how 'old fashioned' many are in terms of their allegiance not only to monogamy but to ideals of romantic love, compared to me, a product of the culture of the newfound sexual freedom of the 1960s and 70s. I once told two young friends that I had two boyfriends simultaneously at one point in university. Each knew of the existence of the other and were free to walk away if they didn't like it. My young friends looked at me like I was the whore of Babylon. So the show is playing to the audience with the whole true love = monogamy thing.

I, too, find Massimo very attractive and hope he sticks around (and isn't too evil). I liked Ryan as well. Lots of fun. I thought the "I made you a good prom memory" gesture was lovely.

Could you expand a bit on what you mean by "the fae pretty much suck ... The fae are not good people. There are good among the fae, but they suck hard"?

Minime, you are hoping that Bo and Kenzi will get a better home, "perhaps a girly version of Dyson's pad." While their home is a bit wall-challenged I admit, it has a lot more amenities than Dyson's spartan loft. All he has is a microwave and bar fridge, exercise equipment and a very large bed :-). They have a flat screen, video games, a full kitchen, a claw-foot soaker tub, two bedrooms (apparently, though we never see Kenzi's), and much more. I think that the walls actually give the set a lot of texture, adding visual interest (much like Dyson's newspapered-over windows).

Must sleep.
Suzanne Metaxas
21. SuzyM
NYpinTA I disagree with you on the Fae suck statement. I think the problem is they have been so isolated and trying to hide from the humans that tend to kill them when they do find them has made them not trust and dislike humans. Humans bear a little guilt for the relationship between Humans and Fae too. Fae need humans to survive (they are their food source for most of them) and since the Humans have no compunction about killing Fae considering them demons there is very little chance of the Fae instantly liking Humans. Kenzi has shown some of them Humans can be friends with the Fae once they understand there must be a symbiotic relationship between the two species.

I also want to see Bo and Kenzi get a better clubhouse or at very least have a few renovations on the current one.

I think Kenzi sleeps on the couch but agree it's time to give her, her own room!

As t the change in wardrobe I think that is because they lost their costume person and I'm not overly fond of the new ones ideas. There are very few outfits I like for any of the cast. I know I'm in the minority but I hated those droopy blouses that were always showing their bras. And Dyson's outfits were definitely not as sexy as prior seasons.
Marie Sullivan
22. Minime
Suzy I thought Dyson was the only cast member who's wardrobe hadn't changed much except for those white tank tops that I didn't like. I was a huge fan of the yoga pants he was boxing in during the Tamsin intro scene. Overall, the costumer fell flat IMO with the exception of DL's awards night dress and Bo's 3.12 flirt with Dyson dress.

I am going to go out on a limb and say George will be the dark fae king who imprisoned Aiofe and she got away and met/found The Wanderer.

I will say the the set design and lighting people did some nice things this season with the clubhouse, I noticed that the couch was in a new location and Bo got a cheesetastic bed mirror.

As for the fae I don't think they are bad I just think that they are hiding for a reason, their wors fear is what Taft did. I think Kenzi proves that humans can be bad as well after the treatment that she got from her own Mother and Step-Father.
Suzanne Metaxas
23. SuzyM
The boxing scenes were super sexy! Loved them :) but I missed his vests and the cut of his shirts. Too many high collar ones in S3. Did love both Bo and Dyson in S3-12 bar scene also.

Think you may have hit the nail on the head about George being cast as the Dark King!

Club house is looking a little better but come on let's get them some walls!

What I want to see in S4 is more relaxed and fun Dyson. Up tight Dyson is getting on my nerves. Also want to see more Kenzi/Dyson brother/sister scenes, as well as some Hale/Kenzi love! :)
Pandra Selivanov
24. Zanza
If Doccubus could just be over, that would be all I would ask from the show. That toxic relationship and the pandering to Docutopia was what ruined it, so I think if Doccubus was gone, the show would be taking a major step in the right direction.

I'd like to see Bo and Dyson as friends, but not necessarily together-at least for a while. I'd rather see their relationship slowly get back to what it should have been and what it was at the end of season one, and then give them a chance to be happy together. But please, writers, take your time. Right now Bo is such a brat she doesn't deserve Dyson.

I want more Kenzi and Dyson, but only as friends. And more Tamsin! I've really gotten to like Tamsin, but no romance, please. No jumping into bed with Bo-if she has to be Bo's sister or something for that to happen, I can live with it.

Hale-I don't know. Human and Fae relationships just seem doomed to fail, even without the misery of the one being mortal and the other living for thousands of years. No wonder the Fae keep humans as pets.

Vex! Please, please, Vex take over the Dark Fae!

And I second everyone who wants to get off the soap opera box and get back to the Fae mythology. Do we have to have Lauren back? If so, can she please just be who she is and fit in with Fae mythology, like being their go-to gal for help with fighting things that go bump in the night?
Marie Sullivan
25. Minime
Suzy I was thinking about Dyson's clothing and I don't think we saw the white button down, sigh, he wore it many times in season 1 & 2 including the hose down scene in Brother Fae and I was not a huge fan of the brown vest they had him in all this season. I may have to go back as rewatch all his scenes to really "inspect" his clothing ;). They really did need a good tailor in season 3, from the red jumpsuit Bo wore in jail to the police uniforms being ill fitting in The Ceremony and yes the bra showing went out with Buffy IMO and should not have been brought back.

Also, SuzyM big up's to the shout out you got on the docutopia site I read that you did a LG podcast. Way to go! Same for H&H and "Krum" who they say always crosses the line.
Suzanne Metaxas
26. SuzyM
:) yes did a pod cast with Curt aka @Faenonymous didn't know that it was up yet. What site had it already?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
27. Kiersten
Am I crossing a line again? What line? I've crossed so many. And that doesnt even count the ones I just flat out jump up and down on...like crosswalks. And grocery lines. And queues for the ladies room at a conference. And those lines they put before traffic lights to show you where to stop...

Seriously, if you have a link, I might even read a doccubus site for that one. Maybe.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
28. Kiersten
Oh, for the record, one does not mix the rum and whipped-cream vodka. They are met to be consumed separately, if sometimes within the same hour of one another
Kiersten Hallie Krum
29. Kiersten
And another FTR note - I've always loved Ryan. He was needed levity for Bo, esp in the fact that he couldnt give a good damn about rules. And I love the fake prom for Bo. None of her "Faemily" would have ever thought to give her that. I like Massimo a lot too, but then I'm always drawn to the snarky smart asses, perhaps for obvious reasons. Some of his best lines were cut from the U.S. version of the finale too, unfortunately.
Nadine Robb
30. cmm
@Kiersten I didn't think anyone liked Ryan. I thought he was very honest and truthful with Bo. I liked that he was dark and he didn't try to hide it or make her into something she's not. As much as I like Trick I find that he tries to change too much. My wish for season 4 is for Bo to become a little darker. You can't be unaligned and constantly be doing things for the light fae.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
31. Kiersten
@cmm - oh no, I loved him. He was filler but Anthony Lemke filled it out oh so well. He had no designs on Bo but a good time and to loosen her up. And boy howdy does she need someone like that.

I'd like to see her go more Dark Fae too in S4. They practically guaranteed it for S3 but we know now that was all misdirection, promo, and red herrings. It's laughable that she still clings to that unaligned fiction when everything she does in her life and all the people she loves are Light Fae. But whatever.
ernestine henry
32. whiskeywhite
Who's George again?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
33. Kiersten
George Takai who is guest starring in S4. Ksenia tweeted something about him being kingly. It was a joke, but hard not to read into anyways.
Marie Sullivan
34. Minime
http://doccubus.com/forum/index.php?topic=533.870

It starts at the 4th post and goes on, it seems that they saw what I wrote here and they edited what they wrote. But, Suzy that's how I knew your did the podcast, because they said SuzyM was crazy saying Lauren was a terrorist.

I found the most entertaining things on that page and the next, here are the highlights that made me think. "Bo chi raped Lauren" and "Taft metaphorically sexually assaulted Lauren by putting the bone in her face"

They were right that Taft threatened to rape Bo but missed the part where he says "shall we mate" and instead thought that part where he waves the pelt on the stick and said he would "feel really familiar" was a threat to Bo vs. the part where he actually says lets mate (ie lets have sex).

Also, they have a chart that I found laughable http://doccubus.com/forum/index.php?topic=533.825 it's the last post at the bottom, the Kenzi, Bo & Dyson lists are missing numerous items and the Lauren things are so slanted and off. Here is my fav one
ACTION--Nadia awakes with promises from Lachlan CONSEQUENCE--Lied to by the Ash again, Lauren must commit to them "forever" --indentured servitude with no end date.
Everytime I read that site I do so trying to see things I may have missed or from another perspective but overall I always am amazed that we are all watching the same show and see things so differently.
Marie Sullivan
35. Minime
Kiersten, George Takai gave an interview and he said that he plays a truly diabolical dark character. Goodness, I lurve me some George!!! From my view that would be the king who thought "it a waste to kill a perfectly good succubus" and instead kept her for a thousand years and thought up new ways to hurt her. I know Trick is AWOL but I would love a Trick vs the Dark Fae King showdown as a start to the come to Jebus talk he needs to have with Aiofe.
Suzanne Metaxas
36. SuzyM
Oh My Goodness! That is not what I said! I was actually saying it was ridiculous to say she was a terrorist! I was reiterating my opinion that the writers have done the Lauren character a disservice by portraying her the way they do! I love the way the doccubus crowd twists things to fit their agenda!

I also find it hysterical that they accuse us of attacking them! I had to block many doccubus people because they were harassing me! Because I dared to say that it was wonderful that Dyson fans and Lauren could work together and that Lost Girl Fans should be united. Won't make that mistake again. I now just keep to my own and don't retweet or try and help anything doccubus. I'm a quick learner. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."
Kiersten Hallie Krum
37. Kiersten
Thanks for the link, Minime. I missed the GT interview, so if you have a link for that, that'd be great. However, upon further reflection, I think I'm gonna stick to my personal policy and stay away from the doccubus fervor forums. Especially since I can tell from your excerpts that it's just more slanted reinterpretations of what actually happened on screen. For example, while Lachlan definitely did lie by omission to DL by not correcting her mistaken assumption that he was responsible for NotComaNadia's resurrection, there was no expected quid pro quo on his part for DL to recommit herself to the Light Fae. She took it upon herself to do that because, and this is supposion as I don't recall it being outright stated (tho I couldve missed it) that was the only way she could remain connected to Bo even as she was now back in a relationship with NCN for whom she had already sacrificed so much. She volunteers to re-up her status as The Ash's claimed human, this time fully knowing all that entails, so while it may be a shit job (and it turns out not so bad after all in S3) calling it enslavement is absurd and frankly demeaning of those who are actually enslaved.

As for "Bo chi-raped Lauren" fiction, Bo is a succubus and when riled, especially when those she loves are involved, she reverts to pure power and need and in these cases, no one is safe. Interesting that the accusation doesn't include as much concern for Kenzi or Trick or Stella who also sacrificed chi unasked to save Dyson in that moment. Or that there was only rejoicing at the "proof of Bo's love" when she "chi raped" the Lich's victims in order to save herself and DL. No sympathy for the "assaulted" there. Also interesting is how Dyson repeatedly offers his chi to Bo, sexually and nonsexually, whenever she needs it without hesitation (as does Tamsin, tho more reluctantly), while DL puts up barriers and objections and rules to how Bo should and can behave regarding sex and chi. But Dyson's the one who infringes on her identity and wants to control Bo. Sure. I think I just hurt myself with that last eye-roll.

I'm constantly flabbergasted by the creative interpretations that are manufactured to fit other's clear agendas no matter how much twisting of words and events are required to make it happen. I often wonder how we can possibly be watching the same show. Is that perhaps a testament to the show that so many can come away with different convictions of what they saw play out on the screen? I dunno.

I'll admit, I'm damn well exhausted about all the discussing we do about Doctor Lauren. I'm complicit in this, no question, and it's hard not to when the show seems to have forgotten who it's actually supposed to be about and instead has spent so much time making DL the main focus in many ways, but any alternative conversations topics would be welcomed, at least on my part. I'll endeavour to do the same.
Marie Sullivan
38. Minime
Lachlan definitely did lie by omission to DL by not correcting her mistaken assumption that he was responsible for NotComaNadia's resurrection,
So here is where I see things differently then most people. In fact, I seem to be the only person who thinks Lachlan is responsible for NCN waking up. Lachlan listened to Lauren and went into the Ash's journals and found out that he had Nadia cursed using the dark fae shaman. Lachlan tracked him down and hired Bo to get him to uncurse Nadia. Lachlan gave Bo the means to travel to Madascar & The Congo to complete the mission plus had time to buy her a bracelet for her birthday (what a gentleman) If Lachlan hadn't found out about the curse, found the shaman, hooked Bo up with Pam and told Bo what to do NCN would still be in her egg. Bo was hired and paid (she was on retainer with the Ash) to do this job and I don't see how that is saving Nadia, it's kind of like saying the waiter at the diner yesterday was kind enough to bring me a meal but that's his job to bring me my food. Bo was on a mission for the Ash so IMO Lachlan saved Lauren in order to get her to owe him one. I loved Lachlan because not only was he handsome but he was playing chess during season 2 while Bo, Trick and the others were playing checkers. He knew Lauren was smart enough to deal with the venom and needed to win her over.

I never thought of the Lich in that way, you are correct that many viewers were upset and thought that Bo should only go super-suck for Lauren and to protect her. You are so right that Lauren put restrictions on Bo and I remember distinctly in season 3 telling Bo how she should feed. I don't remember the episode but at the end Lauren & Bo are talking and Lauren says "you should have a few small meals spread out and you'll be fine", if that is not control, diminishing power and slut shamming then I don't know what is.

I do hope the Kenzi as fae thing is taken care of right off the bat in 4x01 and Hale, Dyson & Trick squash that thought right away. Those 3 love Kenzi as much as Bo and I can see them easily helping her see just how amazing she is, just as she is.
Suzanne Metaxas
39. SuzyM
I'm re-watching S2 and in the episode "Can't See the Fae-Rest" Lauren refers to herself as Lachlan's servant, not his slave. I find that slave reference so ridiculous. Never was Lauren described as the Ash's slave!
ernestine henry
40. whiskeywhite
Thanks, I like George Takai very much and look forward to him appearing. I thought there was some charcter, 'George', that I had forgotten.

Apropos of nothing, I just discovered that there is a Dyson College of Arts and Sciences at Pace University in New York. If our Dyson taught there, what would he teach? Perhaps in the Criminal Justice Department -- Olfactory Investigation Methods?

Please resume your serious discussion of the series.
Suzanne Metaxas
41. SuzyM
Hmmm, In the beginning of Midnight Lamp, Lochlan says they will revisit Lauren's sitch after they defeat the Garuda. So supposedly if Lauren wished she would have been able to leave the Fae. So once again, Lauren was not a slave, she chose to be where she was.

Also noticed that she was really playing Bo to wake Nadia all along, and when Nadia came to dropped Bo like a hot potatoe. Lauren's problem is she wanted both of them, yet ironically she didn't want to let Bo feed.
Carmen Pinzon
42. bungluna
@ minime - Sorry it took so long to post; had to go to the ER for strained eye muscles, the rolling got so extreme! (joke)

What is the opposite of mysogynistic and homophobe? Because that site sure has a pot-kettle thing going on.

I like to read and watch UF, sci-fi and fantasy. I enjoy the characters that are not human and how they can illuminate humanity in different ways. They are usually used to reflect some monstruous aspect of humanity in a way that allows some distance.

That said, I think the writers of LG have gotten too attached to the fanbase and are pandering, one way or the other. Sci-fi/fantasy has to keep a distance and be well plotted or it loses its veracity. I wish I could explain my point better, but there it is. LG started out strong, built a good alternate world, then got lost in the soap-opera emotion of a Fox or CW teeny bopper angst fest. My wish for season for is that it return to an ADULT URBAN FANTASY format.
Pandra Selivanov
43. Zanza
One thing that I'm really really hoping for in season four is some exploration of Dyson and Trick's back story. I mean, Dyson knew Trick was the legendary Blood King when everyone else thought the Blood King was just a legend. How did that happen? And just when and why did Dyson transfer his allegiance to Trick? Now that would be an absorbing story.

Another thing-remember Dyson saying he lost a water nymph's phone number? I ran across a thing called Ondine's Curse-it's a fanciful name for a condition that makes a person stop breathing when they go to sleep. Like, totally stop breathing-this is not sleep apnea. You stop breathing and you die. There are less than a thousand people worldwide who have this condition-they can sleep in an iron lung or put a respirator on to sleep. Weird, huh?

Anyway, the condition is named for a water nymph, Ondine, whose mortal boyfriend swore that his every waking breath would be a symbol of his love for her. He cheated on her, and she cursed him that when he fell asleep, he would stop breathing and die. Could be a fun episode if Dyson's water nymph was Ondine and she felt cheated and cursed him.
Marie Sullivan
44. Minime
@bungluna I can relate to that condition, you see at some point my head exploded. Well actually I can pinpoint exactly when my head exploded it was some time between the "chi rape" comment and the " Kenzi 1) ACTION-- For whatever reason CONSEQUENCE-- Had to leave her family behind, go on the run to survive." comment.

Actually it was exactly at the time I read the Kenzi action/consequence list and realized that if someone wanted to champion any character/race as being abused they would choose Kenzi& the fae vs DL. Kenzi was abused, that was the "action" her father died and her mother remarried an abusive man. This "man" was so abusive that Kenzi would rather live in the sewers then with her mother. Kenzi's mother kicked her own daughter out and chose her step father. No wonder Kenzi want's to be fae, a race of people who seem to love her and care for her. The fae should also be held up by the doccutopia fans as a society better then the humans, they should support and not think that "the fae suck" … and here I go again yelling at my computer and Oh did you hear that, that was the sound of my head exploding….
Marie Sullivan
45. Minime
As much as I don't want Kenzi to be fae I like the storyline and the growth it will give us if she declines in the end and decided to stay human.
ernestine henry
46. whiskeywhite
So much to comment on -- you're an imaginative bunch.

"Rumors like the recent one about Kris Holden-Ried taking tango lessons". I adore men who can dance, which KHR seems to do pretty well even without tango lessons. But a tango-ing Dyson? Hand me the swoon pills!

Zanza, interesting info about "Ondine's Curse". Dyson remembered the nymph's name -- Chloe -- after she reminded him of the New Year's Eve hot tub (phew, I'd not have been impressed if he hadn't).

SuzyM, I disagree that Lauren dropped Bo like a hot potato when Nadia woke up. Lauren was in a difficult situation -- we should try to put ourselves in her shoes. Your lover has been in a "coma" for five years and you've been trying to find a cure, in what must seem like an increasingly hopeless effort. You've been alone all that time. Then you meet someone you're attracted to and she seems to return the interest, as well as being a supportive friend. You develop feelings of more than friendship for this new person. Then, all of a sudden your lover wakes up. She feels for you exactly as she felt when she went to "sleep" and you still love her as well (as your five years of devotion demonstrate). What are you supposed to do? Say, "Sorry Nadia, you've been cursed for five years because of me. But while you were sleeping I met somebody new. So (as Kenzi would say), buh-bye." As I have said before, I think Lauren did the principled thing -- she tried to fulfill her commitment to Nadia. This makes it very awkward with Bo -- of course! To be affectionate with Bo in front of Nadia would be hurtful. Should Lauren have told Bo about Nadia? Sure. Did Lauren solicit and accept Bo's help as a friend to save Nadia? Yes. Who wouldn't if there was a chance that Nadia might be saved (and the sacrifice your friend has to make is hidden from you)? Is that "playing" Bo? I don't think so. What should they have done once Nadia woke up? They should have had a "what do we do now?" conversation. But we know that LG doesn't do serious, adult conversations about relationships. Where's the drama in that?

On the other hand, Suzy, I think your point "Humans have no compunction about killing Fae considering them demons" is an excellent one. Some fae have historically been revered, even worshipped, by humans -- Odin, the Garuda (yes, throughout Asia), the Norn(s), and lots more. But plenty of fae have been the objects of pitchforks, stakes through the heart, burning, etc. Good reason to lay low.

Minime, you're totally right that Lachlan arranged the saving of Nadia and you explain it well. But he had an ulterior motive (he couldn't have cared less about Nadia) and Bo did risk her life to get the mask (as an aside, in the process rebuffing one of Dyson's typical efforts to take the danger on himself). What was Lachlan's ulterior motive? Kiersten says, "there was no expected quid pro quo on his part for DL to recommit herself to the Light Fae." I think that's right. He was more interested in getting Bo's allegiance through the leverage of her request for assistance. But I think it may be stretching it to say that "(Lauren) took it upon herself to (recommit) because ... that was the only way she could remain connected to Bo ..." I feel that Lauren was genuinely grateful for what he had (apparently) done, and felt she owed him. Doesn't she refer to an prior promise? But most importantly, drama (or to again quote my mother, 'draima') is served. Does it have to be logical? Seemingly not.

I also agree, Kiersten, that "calling (Lauren's servitude) enslavement is ... frankly demeaning of those who are actually enslaved." Not to reopen our delicious theoretical discussion of the distinctions among slavery, indentured servitude and serfdom, Trick did tell Bo that Lauren was "owned" by The Ash, and that is the technical definition of enslavement. However, being in an almost 30-year relationship with someone whose ancestors actually were slaves makes me cautious about using that word too casually (e.g., "I slaved over a hot stove, or computer, all day").
Pandra Selivanov
47. Zanza
I gave up lurking at Doccubus.com when I read a post about how smart Lauren was to leave her cell phone when Taft kidnapped her so Bo could trace her calls.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
48. Kiersten
Never mind the fact that she actually was never kidnapped but went willingly and actually left her phone behind so neither Bo nor Hale or any other Fae could trace her via its GPS.

Oy.
ernestine henry
49. whiskeywhite
I thought that leaving the phone behind was a message: "I'm really gone and intentionally so. I wasn't kidnapped." That and turning off the lights as she left.

Regarding whether Kenzie has a bedroom, I'm pretty sure she has. We see no evidence of her sleeping nightly on the couch (no sheets, pillows, etc.). We do see her passed out drunk on the couch a few times. I remember her leaving the room and saying she's going to bed. I was re-watching 1.09 "Fae Day" where we get a rare almost 360 degree view of the Clubhouse when the ogre comes to attack Sean, the fellow for whom the banshee wailed. Directly opposite, in a straight line, from the entrance 'hallway' are two French doors which were partly open during the episode. In the room beyond the doors we see an antique-style hanging light fixture like others in the house and what looks like a sleeping bag on a table. Not exactly signs of a comfy bedroom, I agree and surely Kenzi would have a stylish space (it is most likely simply a space behind the set, but it was shown as if it were a room). There is also a nearby door in the wall perpendicular to the French doors which was not opened during the episode. That theoretically could be Kenzie's bedroom. I forgot to say earlier when I was comparing the Clubhouse amenities to those of Dyson's loft that Bo also has a big bed, not as wide as Dyson's king (what else?), but considerably more fashionable and imposing. :-)
ernestine henry
50. whiskeywhite
I needed to look up the definition of 'urban fantasy' (I figured it had to be more than 'fantasy in a city' but it turns out that's basically what it is). Anyway, good old Wikipedia makes some interesting observations. Re: adult urban fantasy novels, it says they "often feature mythological beings, romance, and various female protagonists who are involved in law enforcement or vigilantism." Female protagonist, check. (Is Bo a vigilante? Interesting question.) It continues: "certain stories feature men and women who are regularly partnered on adventures—often with an underlying romantic element." Romantic partnership, check. Then regarding the teen sub genre of UF we learn "love triangles play a prominent part." Love triangle for the teen audience, check. (Without meaning to be offensive at all, I really do think that the whole triangle thing in LG is aimed at a less mature audience and this is reflected in the Doccubus fervour -- and style of debate).

So what do you all think -- do Kenzi and Hale have a chance of happiness together? Does dear Bruce have a future or is he a fleeting character soon to be dropped? Will Vex become The Morrigan? LindaL has asked the smart question of whether any man can become The Morrigan, or must it be a woman? For that matter, can a woman become The Ash? Not that I have a candidate in mind, but we've already gone through three men as The Ash. Now that I think about it, there was a woman competing in the stag hunt, so I guess that answers that question. Is Hale's sister, Val, ever coming back? I thought she was gone for good after the wine cellar seduction of Dyson, but she showed up again for the Garuda battle (to some degree making up for her bratty behaviour). I assume that Aife will be back; what will she get up to? Will she confront Trick or vice versa? Will her softer mother side, which we saw briefly while she dangled in the stairwell, come back? Or is she an unreformed villain?
Marie Sullivan
51. Minime
I noticed that at the SDCC only KHR, KS and ZP will be doing a panel along with Firestone, Andras, and one other producer. No Rachel, Paul Amos, K.C. or Rick. Anna not going makes sense she just had a baby am I am sure she wan't as much home time as possible. I wonder why they wouldn't bring Rachel and Paul??
Pandra Selivanov
52. Zanza
I would agree that the Doccubus crowd is incredibly childless-I wouldn't even put them at a teen level, simply because of the complete reworking of whatever they don't like in the show. And the name-calling and violent abuse of whoever says something they don't like. It's just not mature to be unable to accept reality and that other people have a right to their opinion.

As to Kenzi and Hale, I don't think they have a shot. Human and Fae romances just don't work-we've seen it over and over and I don't see Kenzi and Hale breaking the mold. And even if they did, it would be for such a short time-she's a mortal and will die very soon by Fae standards, so there would be such a bittersweet quality to their pairing. Now if Hale became mortal-there's an interesting thought. Could he love Kenzi enough to give up Faedom? As to Bruce, he'll probably fall soon but I wish he wouldn't. Really really like Bruce.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
53. Kiersten
@Minime Anna, Kris, and Ksenia are the top three leads of the show, so it makes sense that the show would send those heavy hitters to the flagship comic con that is SDCC. Zoie is, of course, enormously popular and she and Kris particularly are a treat to have do public events together. With Anna likely restricting travel due to the baby, it makes sense that Zoie would fill that third slot at SDCC. Keep in mind too that SDCC occurs in the middle of filming S4, so there's probably a lot of scheduling hoops to jump through to make anything happen. What I learned from a publicist at Philly Con is that the cons tell the shows (or at least in that instance they did) who they want to have attend, which is why Kris was alone at Philly as he was their request to test what the response would be to a LG cast member. Motor City and Houston wanted 2 cast members, which is why Zoie was at those two cons with Kris but not at Philly. He was successful enough though that they'll hopefully have a larger presence next year. I gather that there's some back and forth there between the show and the cons negotiating who goes where, but there are others here that know a lot more about that than I, which admittedly is not hard as I really know next to nothing about this stuff.
Marie Sullivan
54. Minime
Sorry Zanza but the romantic in me disagrees. I don't think lifespan should be a consideration in dating or marriage. Whos to say Hale won't get some fae cancer in two years. I think that they would work as a couple and just because she will die sooner should not be a consideration. Look at all the dead fae we have seen who Kenzi has outlived. Plus, with the clan Zamora rock she could possibly stay well for a long time.
Pandra Selivanov
55. Zanza
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, Minime. I don't think lifespan should be a consideration in dating or marriage, and I didn't say that, but I do think that when you have an essentially immortal creature in love with a mortal, there is a bittersweetness to it all. It's absolutely undeniable that such a relationship can only be short-term, and I think it would be strange if the people involved didn't at least look at the fact of it being short-term. I was pretty happy when Bo finally addressed that she was going to live for centuries after Lauren died, and I also liked Dyson's playful comment about asking him in a hundred years. Simple facts of life shouldn't be a deal-breaker, but they shouldn't be ignored either.
Suzanne Metaxas
56. SuzyM
I do agree that the life span is a deterrent for Hale and Kenzi but not a deal breaker. True Hale will have the heart break of watching Kenzi age and die and that will hurt a lot. Yet Kenzi will have a life time of love and being with the man she loves so her life will be fulfilling and Hale will have the joy of sharing that with her.
Marie Sullivan
57. Minime
Yet Kenzi will have a life time of love and being with the man she loves so her life will be fulfilling and Hale will have the joy of sharing that with her.
Well said Suzy well said!
I was pretty happy when Bo finally addressed that she was going to live for centuries after Lauren died, and I also liked Dyson's playful comment about asking him in a hundred years. Simple facts of life shouldn't be a deal-breaker, but they shouldn't be ignored either.
I don't really think Bo & Lauren addressed that yet. We just had Bo realize in 3x11 that she was going to live for a really long time, hundreds of years but she hasn't talked about it with Lauren yet. In fact when it finally hit her Lauren had left already. That realization has yet to be voiced by Bo & Lauren. IMO when Kenzi tells her to seek closure and before she goes looking for her father she needs to settle her current life (very wise) that was what they would have talked about. If they were on a break and not a break up Bo was willing to give her time because Bo has all the time in the world (this plays nicely against 3x01 Bo telling Lauren life is short and our time in now or never) but if it was a break up Bo was ready to move on to the next stage of her life.

I actually would love a Bo & Lauren talk (on screen) about lifespan, children, and the lifestyle Bo leads. Dyson & Bo are similar so that kind of talk wouldn't apply to them and they had the talk in Dis-Members, that they are both more then their species and as long as they talked and were honest with each other it would work out.
Pandra Selivanov
58. Zanza
I didn't mean Bo addressed it with Lauren-actually, what I was talking about is that Bo addressed it by talking about it at all. She finally realized that she was going to outlive Lauren by centuries. That was a good moment.
ernestine henry
59. whiskeywhite
What a sweet discussion about Kenzi and Hale. Being a romantic too (I agree -- well said, Suzy), I think that they should make a try of it, while facing the realities as Zanza says. Another one of those adult conversations needed. Hale understands the realities and he's clearly ready to go for it. But I don't think the series will allow them happiness. Maybe for a short while and then they kill off Hale or send him away or something (you can see my fears coming through here).

Thanks for the info. about the 'cons', Kiersten. Very interesting.

I'm becoming a bit obsessed with understanding the architecture of the Clubhouse. In 1.11, "Faetal Justice", Kenzi comes rushing into the living room through the open French doors, but this time it seems that she's coming downstairs (is there another set of stairs to an upstairs bedroom for her?). And what we see in the room beyond the French doors is a table with lit candles on it and a chair. Speaking of which, for people who live in a very old wooden house, they have way too many lit candles (they're everywhere!). And I suspect that they leave the house unoccupied with the candles burning -- major fire hazard -- but I'll have to check that :-). Can you tell that I have too much time on my hands?
Marie Sullivan
60. Minime
Whiskey if you watch the end of Delinquents, the part where Tamsin collects Bo's hair you will notice that they filmed and lit the HH in a new way and you can see a ton of details. I must have rewound it a few times because it looked very different.

In that scene you also get classic LG double entendre with Tamsin's "that is one sad, sad little box" LOL it's right up their with my favorite Lauren scene of Cayden eating Lauren's "hot hot muffin" goodness why couldn't they stick to that sort of adult humor and irony vs the disgusting mess that was 3x01.
Suzanne Metaxas
61. SuzyM
Hmm, maybe they can have the club house burn down in S4 and then the girls would have to get new digs :) Just a thought.
Carmen Pinzon
63. bungluna
I'm going to have to seek professional help for my LG discussion addiction!

Any relationship between a long-lived fae and a mortal would have the
taint of master/pet, imo. You can adore your pet, take great care of it, love it till it dies on you, but you will always be aware that your pet will die in a relatively short time-span. You are also aware that you will have more than one pet during your lifetime, even though a specific one may turn out to be your favorite.

For this reason, I just cannot buy into the "love of a lifetime" taking place between a fae and a human. The disparities in experience, expectation and realities are just too huge. That said, I could buy a romance for right now. There's nothing wrong with such a thing. Most of us have more than one romance in our lifetimes, which doesn't diminish the importance of any of them to our development.

Finally, it's this type of discussion that's sadly missing from the show. Exploring the fae and the human worlds and how they interact and differ would make for a much better show, imo, than the porn-o-drama it has become.
Marie Sullivan
64. Minime
Finally, it's this type of discussion that's sadly missing from the show. Exploring the fae and the human worlds and how they interact and differ would make for a much better show, imo, than the porn-o-drama it has become.
I agree that this is the kind of thing that could bring not only substance but a unity to the audience as a whole. In 1x02 Hale talks about a date and Dyson says "human or fae" so they date humans or at least Hale does. I keep thinking of 3x01 (good lord I wish I could forget that awful episode, I try I really do) Lauren talks about having baby names reserved, she wants to have children and Bo is living such a different life they are not even in the same universe let alone mental space. If Lauren couldn't handle Bo being happy to go beat up a monster imagine Bo leaving her with a kid or two to go fight the MOTW. Also would they have fae or human kids that in itself is a HUGE talk. Human children would die before Bo and fae children wouldn't even make it to their dawning before Lauren dies. While I am not a doccutopia fan the really did leave so much stuff unsaid and they the reason for the break-up could have been much more powerful then weepy winey Lauren needing space from happy Bo.


Anywho I just got off track, it seems Hale has dated humans and I would love to know more about if any were serious.
Nadine Robb
65. cmm
I must be in the minority here but I don't have a problem with human fae relations. I do think that for some of the fae humans are pets, but for Hale I think he is the exception. I do agree that life span is a consideration, but I don't think that should have anything to do with love. There are many couples out there who have married people that are either older or younger than themselves and they are still together to date. I am wondering though if LG will pull a twist, like maybe half human half fae can exist and myth about a human and a fae having a child produces a human child is lie. I've always had the suspicion that this human and fae nonesense was started by fae elders who wanted to keep their bloodlines poor. Would make sense since most fae think humans are inferior.
Carmen Pinzon
66. bungluna
Off topic, but I like the take of Patricia Briggs on fae-human relations. In the last Alpha and Omega book, the half-caste child of a powerful fae is hurt by a human and the fae declares war on humans for it. He says that it's not good to give powerfull immortals something so fragile to love, or words to that effect. I feel this is so true whenever there is such an unbalanced situation.

Much as we like to believe in ONE TRUE LOVE (as romance readers, I'm assuming this is so), the fact is that there are many second chance at love stories that may disprove this. In paranormals, either the 'human' can be turned into an immortal or he/she turns out not to be so human in the first place. Otherwhise, it just doesn't work, because we want the HEA forever, not for until one of them dies and the other falls in love again after a suitable century or so of mourning.

Back to the show. It is established that serious relationships between fae and human are forbiden. For what reason? What's the backstory for this rule/law? That alone could make an interesting episode or two.

On the other hand, fae/human "pet" situations are not frowned upon. Witness Kenzie being claimed by Bo and any other 'claimed' humans we've run across. What makes the distinction? Another good epsisode fodder.

I think, at this point, I would love for the show to jump forward a couple of centuries and deal with the fallout of Bo's undeclaredness. We would loose Kenzie, which would suck, but it would be great to wipe out WonderLauren and all the crap that's been dished out this past few seasons and get back to a show about the freaking fae!
Katherine Bloom
67. lsbloom
Oh my goodness, I've been out of the loop and I missed so much!

To sum up: my one true hope for season 4 is for the writers to commit to honest cohesive consistent storytelling. If you write something, stick with it, don't wait around and see how fans twist it and make that true. Tell the story we started out with. Obviously, serializing it was too difficult and undercut the greatness that was the character interplay of the Happy Sunshine Gang chasing cases and trying to do the "right" thing in a mythically and morally ambiguous world. Rewriting characters undercut the both the relationships and the dynamic. Bring back the dynamic. And commit. ML had basic tenets. EA needs to find a pad of paper and a backbone and lose her direct line to doccubus.com. Remember who the characters are and think through what you are saying: sexualized violence against your "strong" "badass" heroine isn't okay , should never be okay, is in direct contrast with all your purported theories of empowerment, strength, and no sexual shaming, it does not matter if it is a guy or a girl perpetuating the violence. Fans will respond to a good story. All of them. Season 1 didn't pander, it told a decent story with great character energy and people tuned in. But stick with what you write and remember that in fantasy like this world-building is critical to envelop the audience is a different world. As an audience we rely on what the writers are telling us. So tell us and don't lie/backtrack/rewrite history. Honest, coherent, consistent storytelling.

For this hiatus, my only wish is we could find a way to discuss the show without falling into the trap of "DL vs." I don't know what show people watch sometimes. And I'm not sure if the so-easy-to-get-consumed-by controversy is a sign that the show has failed to give us anything else interesting to talk about or that the fandom expends so much effort twisting the show to fit an agenda that the only response is to take the time for a retort. That list where they made up all these things that "happened to" Lauren and the consequences of her actions. And gave no one else the same level of detail. Bo had like four bullet points...Bo! The main character. The girl about whom all plot revolves. The girl who resides at the heart of the dramatic tension. And we can only come up with four things she's had to deal with. Or second place, Kenzi. Really? She sticks up for Bo and curses Dyson, gets kidnapped to hellish alternate dimension where she has to face her childhood nightmare, watch girls get burned to death and eaten. And right there you are off to the races comparing taking the consequences of selfish, manipulative actions vs altruistic or at least loyal actions of people trying to protect each other and making a hash out of it. I wish there was more show to counterbalance the character and fan rewrites.

But I love reading you guys' comments. And I think that lifespan is a fine differentiation point well-traveled in great love stories in this genre. Differences in education, priorities, lifestyle, personality, mentality, and sexual needs are not poignant tragic love story tropes, they are the underpinnings of a bad relationship. But that's just me, and as a friend once said of my cynical behind "obviously a child of divorce." Nothing forces people who don't really like or respect each other to stay together, and nothing really should. Love is nothing without respect and trust. I just can't figure out why the writers would maintain a triangle that is so out of balance on such fundamental elements. I get why they initially set the characters in opposition to each other. However, once they changed one of the character roles that dichotomy no longer functioned.
Pandra Selivanov
68. Zanza
Any relationship between a long-lived fae and a mortal would have the taint of master/pet, imo. You can adore your pet, take great care of it, love it till it dies on you, but you will always be aware that your pet will die in a relatively short time-span. You are also aware that you will have more than one pet during your lifetime, even though a specific one may turn out to be your favorite. For this reason, I just cannot buy into the "love of a lifetime" taking place between a fae and a human. The disparities in experience, expectation and realities are just too huge.

Bungluna, I totally agree with what you've said here and I think it's a huge reason why human and Fae pairings just don't work. I'd love to see a romance between Kenzi and Hale, but I just don't see it working, even in the short term.
Suzanne Metaxas
69. SuzyM
Sorry but I have to disagree with those who think the Fae/Human relationship can't work. If you truly love someone you do not EVER think of them as a pet. There are some stupid men whe treat their wives as their pets and those relationships do not last long. Relationships that last for years do so because the husband and wife are partners and lovers. Hale and Kenzi can have that relationship. IMO
ernestine henry
70. Char
Fae and Human love relationship

I remember watching a Bewitched episode when Darrin realizes that Samantha will outlive him and he didn't know how to cope with the fact that his wife would still be beautiful and young while he aged and grew old. He understood that Samantha would be there for his lifetime but he could not be there for her in her lifetime. Samantha explained to him that when 2 people love each other, they make it work.

Sidenote: She was a witch and was able to transform her looks to gradually change the same way as Darrin.

My problem with Fae and Human love relationships is that I don't know why Fae and humans cannot be together. I mean is it the fae bloodline, is it fae and human children, I have no idea. I wish LG would explore this relationship further and find out why Fae and Human are not a good match for love. But they are ok to keep as pets!

More backstory of the characters...why is Hale the Siren not as important as his sister? Does any of the Fae characters besides Hale have siblings? Bo are you not curious about your aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents? What about your grandmother Ysabeau? When did she marry Trick? She was a succubus. How did she control her energy? If she did...was Trick able to help her with her fae power? If not, was he on with her feeding on other people? Dyson, what type of shape shifter are your parents, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncle? Do you ever call them? Are any then still alive? What is your backstory? Kenzi...who is your mother an stepfather? Why are you so witty and strong? What turned you into such an awesome person with a troubles background? Lauren...how smart r u? R u Doogie Howser smart? Or a fake? When did you learn to bake? When did you need to make a pipe bomb? Trick...please stop brooding and tell Bo more about the Fae! She passed her Dawning. She is an adult now. She is not a child Fae anymore. Bo is a big girl and she can handle it.
Marie Sullivan
71. Minime
Wow everyone brings up so many great points! Isbloom, Char, Cmm et al. This really struck me:
Much as we like to believe in ONE TRUE LOVE (as romance readers, I'm assuming this is so), the fact is that there are many second chance at love stories that may disprove this.
I agree that this is something LG should explore with Bo. The idea of HEA and a love of a lifetime, Bo can and should have many loves and not just Kenzi, DL or Dyson. (Oh I tend to think Kenzi is Bo's soulmate in a non sexual way, she simply gets Bo like no one else).

I was always struck with how Lachlan said that Bo being a succubus loved and hated differently. Her hate and anger was born out of passion and that made her immune to the Garuda (aka Ricardo Montalban, didn't he remind you of him) so her love is different then others.

I would love the theme of love being valid without all the baggage i.e. living happily ever after, having a house, spouse. 2.5 kids and a dog or being a tragic love story. That one can find multiple loves and none is more valid then the others and as Bo grows and changes her romantic and sexual needs change and her relationships end and begin anew.
Carmen Pinzon
72. bungluna
@SuzyM- I'm not saying they can't work, I'm saying that they have a different dynamic than a more equal pairing. By their very nature, they are limited. A great love of six months is not the same than a great love of six years or six centuries. Time and shared experiences affect all our relationships. When one person remains strong and healthy and vital and the other slowly deteriorates and slides into a decline and eventually into death, the dynamics of the relationship are bound to be different.

Think, if you will, of how a relationship changes when one of the partners has a disease that debilitates them and the other starts taking care of them. There's still love, but it changes in nature.

I just don't see how anybody can claim that a long-lived being will love a short-lived being and never love anybody else again. On the other hand, I would be more comfortable in the long run with somebody who had some expectation of being there with me and for me for the long haul. And finally, if I'm the one sliding into a decline, I think I would start resenting my partner as they remained young and healthy and I became an old wreck.
Pandra Selivanov
73. Zanza
...if I'm the one sliding into a decline, I think I would start resenting my partner as they remained young and healthy and I became an old wreck.

It's funny you say this, Bungluna, because this came up on Buffy the Vampire Slayer with the mayor in season three. He talked to Angel about how he had loved his wife, a mortal woman, so much, and how hard it got at the end when he was still young and healthy and she was old and feeble. She raged at him constantly, and the mayor didn't think Angel was up to what it takes for an immortal to love a mortal. And it wasn't like he had any regrets-he still loved his wife, even though she was gone, and he didn't have another woman. Anyway, it was the kind of amazing, not-shrinking-from-reality conversation that we will never get on Lost Girl.

There are all kinds of love. There is love that lasts a lifetime, but between a human and a Fae, that love can never be. Kenzi can grow old with Hale, but Hale cannot grow old with Kenzi. That's the reality, no matter how much romance is stuck on top, and it's bound to affect the relationship. And maybe that's why human and Fae pairings are frowned on by the Fae. To invest so much of yourself in a relationship that will only last a few days of a thousands of years lifetime? I'm not saying it's wrong, or that the Fae in question wouldn't be happy for those few days. But I do think that the Fae powers that be recognize how little chance of success and how great a chance of disaster there is in such a relationship. They're all about hiding, and it would be quite a trick to pull off, not aging at all while your partner declines. And your partner is going to know what you are, and then what if they resent you enough to out you, or they get dementia or something and let the cat out of the bag?
Carmen Pinzon
74. bungluna
@Zanza - Exactly!

Everybody always assumes that THE MAN, or in this case THE FAE, came up with these laws arbitrarily. I think it would make a fascinating arc for Bo to find out the why behind the way Faedom is set up, rather than just protest and rebel for the hell of it.

So far, the show has done little to explore the reasons for the Dark and Light grouping. Bo seems a nitwit when she just goes along without questioning or at least asking the why of things. Hey, she's supposed to be a curious being, so more enquiring and less bungling along, please.
Pandra Selivanov
75. Zanza
Bungluna, I'd love for some backstory about why the Fae forbid human and Fae relationships. I'm sure it wasn't just some arbitrary thing-maybe some really horrific things happend with the pairings, and the children, and the Fae came up with these rules to protect both sides. Romance is all very well, and cliches like "Love conquers all" are very sweet, but in the real world, a long-term relationship is the hardest work in the world, which is probably why so few people make it over the long haul. Anybody can have an exciting relationship for a little while, and many people do, but to make it last? Why, I just read an article about how scientists are theorizing that humans did not evolve to be monogamous. So now even science is trying to say it's okay to run around and not have one lasting relationship-it's better than okay, it's normal and those of us who love for a lifetime are the odd ducks.

Another thing I think of is The Prisoner of Zenda, where Rudolf wants Princess Flavia to run away with him at the end. And she almost does, but she doesn't because her duty is to her people. As she puts it, honor binds a woman too and if love were all, he would have left the king to die so he could have her. I don't know if you're familiar with that book, but I think you get my point. Love is part of the puzzle-it's not the whole picture. It's not enough to love someone-you have to like them too. And no matter how much love here is, if they're going to die soon, that's going to affect how things go.
Nadine Robb
76. cmm
@zanza and @bungluna

I get where you are both coming from. But I really don't think them being all about hiding has anything to do with human fae relations. If they really wanted to be with a human i'm sure they could. It has nothing to do with aging either, if you really care about the person age, powers etc don't matter. I truly believe that if it can be done on buffy it can be done on LG. Also, yes the fae require secrecy but they have human servants, so why would this matter now. I'm sure the human in question would be required to take that same vow of secrecy that the servants do. I'm not saying there won't be challenges, there will be. However being fae or human and in a relationship should not be one of them.
Suzanne Metaxas
77. SuzyM
Again I have to disagree with some things said here. If you truly love someone then you will not resent that they do not grow old as you do. They will not hate you because you are growing old and eventually feeble. I had a very bad car accident over 10 years ago and they didn't think I would ever walk again. My husband took care of me and never once resented me. I have been lucky and with therapy and hard work (with help from my husband) I now walk with a cane. I am not saying it doesn't hurt when you watch someone you love struggle and deal with disability but it doesn't make you resent them of abandon them. My husband had a fight with cancer about 5 years ago and I was there for him. Together we have fought the fights and grown closer, we will celebrate 44 years of marriage this November. We have been together 47 years as a couple :) No one with any smarts expects a perfect marriage but if you love one each other and work at it you can have a very good one.
Marie Sullivan
79. Minime
Suzy while I agree with your stance for a human relationship (having lived through and illness with my husband ) I do think that in a case by case basis a human/fae relationship would work but love is just not enough with issues that vast in a human/fae ship.

My guess is the vast majority of fae human relationships would not work out for a few HUGE reasons. I think that in the case of Kenzi & Hale they would work out because they would have the love and support of their friends although Hales father would likely disown him but he doesn't seem to care about what they think. Kenzi is not really in contact with her family and that is a plus in a fae/human relationship.

If DL & Bo were better balanced personality wise their relationship would have worked out as long as they didn't have contact with Lauren's family, and from what we know or don't know she is not in contact with them. Here is what I see of the things that will put undue pressure outside of the basic aging issue.

Also, if their are any Highlander fans Connor had a mortal daughter who as she aged they just changed what they called each other until her death. She was his daughter then sister then mother then grandmother and while they were always father and daughter in their hearts they needed a way to explain how he never aged to the non-immortals.

1) Family- If your spouse will never age you can never have them meet your family and that alone would put a lot of pressure on the human and would eventually lead to issues. I think that this is why a human/fae ship won't work because the humans family is bound to notice over the years that the spouse doesn't age.

2)Friends- Outside the fae community no human friends can meet your spouse

3) Children- fae + human = human children and asking a fae to have a child that they will outlive seems unthinkable to me we do know that the fae have a foster system and adoption system so they could adopt a fae child

That is what I came up with so far. IMO for people like DL or Kenzi who have limited contact with people outside the fae community a relationship can work if you both work hard enough, are honest with your feelings and are realistic about your future life. I think Hale & Kenzi have what it takes to make it because they have the love and support from their Fae-mily (Dyson, Bo, Vex and Trick). DL & Bo didn't have the fae-maily support, were not honest about the realities of their future together and are really in different emotional places.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
80. Kiersten
I think the Fae kabash on human fae relations is more a snob thing than an aging one. I think the human/Fae children not having powers is a myth the ruling fae perpetuate b/c they dont want mix breeds running around bridging the divide. They're perfectly happy having human slaves & peppering Fae through human occupations for their own purposes. So the no human/Fae mating thing is an awfully convenient rule to keep control of an increasingly blended society & police any accidental offspring. Fae ruling society is too concerned with bloodlines (just look @ the reactions of Hale's family not to mention the ppl he had to deal with as The Ash) & the anti-human mate thing is more related to that than an esoteric issues of age & love.

I do, however, believe that both love/long life scenarios discussed here are valid. there are absolutely those marriages that are truly for better and for worse, a union where partners like and love one another to a depth that is locked in for life no atter the possible deteriorizations. There are also those whose love burns out b/c of time and/or circumstances. i would submit that such relationships are possibly more about being "in love" than actually truly loving your partner, but every situation, every union, is different. you can genuinely love someone & yet not have the character to stand beside them in hard situations w/out building resentment. thats not so much a comment on whether or not you love that person but more one on the flaws in your own character winning out over the veracity of your love & commitment to your partner.

Kenzi is going to age. She will age whether she is or is not in a romantic relationship with Hale. Their feelings for each other wont change just cause they're not making a go of it an thus Hale's pain at Kenzi's aging and eventual death will be no less for having not tried for something more with her. Better to go for it & enjoy what they've got while they've got it.

Another genre example of the age issue is Highlander where Connor stayed with Heather till the end, ever faithful, loving her as much at her death as he did when they married. he never saw an old woman, he only ever saw his bonnie heather. for her part, heather did have some resentment, but she never doubted his love of her, and while she was sad to age when he didnt and to leave him knowing he would live on, she never railed at him or wasted their time together by being bitter.
Marie Sullivan
81. Minime
Look at that 2 Highlander refrences in one thread. LOL
Kiersten Hallie Krum
82. Kiersten
There can be only one...

For the record, Rachel was not Connor's biological child. She was an orphan of WW II who he found in the rubble of a collapsed building & adopted (it's in the extended edition of the original film). Immortals, once they've been violently killed for the first time & thus activate their immortality, cannot have children, though they can have them before that first death.

However, your point about how they adapted to his immortality stands. ;)
Marie Sullivan
83. Minime
I knew they couldn't have kids but I didn't know that they could before the first death. I thought that they were always infertile. I too saw the extended version and the 4th one (not sure) the one that he dies in, it was so bad but I did like the part about him being so upset about her death that he voluntarily offered to be put into a coma for an experiment because he was so devastated by her death.
Pandra Selivanov
84. Zanza
Minime, I like your points about the enormous pressure that would be put on a human and Fae relationship by not being able to have your family and friends be a part of your life with your partner. For some people, this would be a non-issue, but I think for most people, this would set up an impossibly miserable situation. It would be like having to go into witness protection and never seeing your family and friends again. If your partner goes with you into exile, well and good. If not, is that because of flaws in their character, as Kiersten theorized, or is it because love is not the whole thing in a relationship?

Disparities cause problems. It's wonderful to find a partner who stands by you. It's also very rare. I waited six years for my husband's visa to come through-he's Russian, we got married in Russia, I came back to the United States, and we didn't see each other for six years until his visa came through and he could finally come to America. That was a hard six years, and both of us had to endure a lot from family and friends who told us to give up, that it was too long to wait, the distance was too much, etc. etc. etc. Most people I know who were in long-distance relationships didn't make it. I don't think that means Sergei and I love each other more than most people-I think our characters were just such that we were able to go the distance.

Anyway, I think people put too much on romantic love and they don't think enough of the real world and what a relationship is going to require. I believe the high divorce rate bears me out in this-I don't like to sentimentalize, because I believe it clouds a person's vision. I think Minime is absolutely right that Kenzi and Hale have a shot because they have the support. I also think the rules about human and Fae pairings were not made lightly, or arbitrarily, and that the huge problems obvious in such pairings were the reason the rules were made in the first place.
Katherine Bloom
85. lsbloom
I always thought the no human/fae long-term relationships was born out of the one fae rule of keeping themselves secret (with some prejudice built in). If marriage lasts a 1000 years before divorce, the idea of marrying for only 50-60 years might inherently be frowned upon--their cultural idea of sticking with a partner would be undermined by the notion of such a temporary scenario. The biggest example we have of no human+fae was Luanne in which she left the dark fae to be with a human and they got jealous. The dark has never been presented as being open to personal freedoms, so running away and turning your back on them seems pretty reasonably punishable in that world. But both Kenzi and Lauren are (were) part of the fae world not the human one, so there would be no issues of exposure or leaving the fae community. I always thought beyond the factual differences that became prejudice, the "juliette and juliette" story was blown out of proportion to make doccubus seem like a more interesting story to tell. Frankly, Bo isn't saddled with any rules, so what does it even matter?

I would be upset if they backtracked on the human+fae=no powers. It was in the second episode and it wasn't presented as propaganda, but as fact. Trick dismissed Bo having human parentage because she had powers, the Will o' the wisps kid didn't have any powers. Facts are pretty thin on the ground in the Lost Girl writers' room and they play pretty fast and loose with genetics for all they spout silly medical words. But I do prefer that they stick to what they say.
Carmen Pinzon
86. bungluna
The fact remains that WE DON'T KNOW why these rules exist. If the Fae-ers that be are arbitrary or snobby or really looking out for their own, the show has not taken the time to explore it. That's a big flaw in their world building.

I get that LG is a low-budget sci-fi show. Someone came up with a great idea that obviously hit a chord with fans (witness us discussing it here), but imo they have wasted the potential by not building on the world and the mythology. They rather throw stuff out to retro-fit whatever new tangent they're taking instead of building and explaining to us how this world works.

As for relationships, I know from personal experience that my relationship with my husband is not the same now as it was 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago. Experience does affect our relationships, all of them. I cannot even imagine what it would do to me to know that my husband was going to die on me at a relatively early date and that I would have to go on without him or vice versa. The mental gymnastics required to keep a relationship going would have to adjust to these details somehow. To assert that love conquers all and these things are immaterial, I think, is to turn a blind eye to both the stated "reality" and human nature.
ernestine henry
87. whiskeywhite
Oh my goodness, so much fabulous discussion in essentially one day!

Thanks, Minime for the lead to "Deliquents" to check out the Clubhouse. Will do (using my brand new, first ever, HD flat screen and Blu-ray player, purchased in part so that I can see the detail in LG. How's that for obsessed?) Interesting idea, Suzy, about having the Clubhouse burn down. I could actually see that happening in LG, except that then they'd have to pay for an expensive new set. It would have to be expensive to be as complex and interesting as the one they have now.

What a fabulous discussion about life, love and relationships. lsbloom beat me to it (welcome back, lsbloom, and you're back with a bang of great commentary) in pointing out that the 'no human/fae long-term relationships' rule was born out of the ONE BIG FAE RULE of keeping themselves secret from humans at any cost. Fear of exposure was why Will o' the Wisp abandoned his lover and why the Silkie mother gave up her Fae powers, and thus the Fae world, to live with her fisherman lover. And mixed children is not the issue either -- I was going to use the same example that lsbloom gives -- Will o' the Wisp's son does not have any Fae powers (and resents it, though his father in the end essentially takes him into the Fae world). The BIG RULE is not at all about caring whether people will get hurt by one partner dying long before the other or any other such niceties. It's about Fae survival.

I thought you added an interesting nuance, lsbloom, when you added:
If marriage lasts a 1000 years before divorce, the idea of marrying for only 50-60 years might inherently be frowned upon--their cultural idea of sticking with a partner would be undermined by the notion of such a temporary scenario.
Apparently though, short-term relationships are OK. I guess they would then fall into the 'girlfriend', 'boyfriend' category that I love so much. :-( So Kenzi could be Hale's 'girlfriend' (for real). Good question about his family's reaction, but we did see his father being newly respectful to Kenzi after he agreed to help in the battle against the Garuda. And Kenzi fought beside Val in the battle, presumably earning some respect there.

But regardless of Fae rules, the discussion here of the emotional toll of differing lifespans, and living with an ill, disabled and/or aging partner, is outstanding. Many thanks to those who shared personal stories and the thoughtful reflection of all. Having (and hopefully caring for) an ill or dying partner is a challenge that all life partners must anticipate and face. My parents told me that they had discussions about that fact that one would die before the other (both are now gone) and that they needed to accept this as a stage in life. So, the inevitability of watching a partner age and die is the fate of both human and Fae/human couples -- and both have recognize and deal with it. I admit, though, that this not-so-romantic fact of love's commitment would be exacerbated in a Fae/human couple and is more apparent to older humans, like some of us on this list. 'Young love' doesn't usually comtemplate these long-term issues, though I have a friend who, at a fairly young age, married and had a child with her lover even though they knew that he would die from his disability within a very few years. Like you, Bungluna, I don't know how they did that. But I guess they decided that they would take the time that was available to them, even though it would be short and he wouldn't live to see his child grow up.
ernestine henry
88. whiskeywhite
I decided I had better break up this overly long post. One more thing.

Interesting points about the role of family support. The Fae-human
relationships we see in LG where the Fae partner goes into the human
world (e.g., the Silkie, Luanne) or the human stays in the human world
(Will O' Wisp's lover) don't work out well. But I think it wouldbe more
possible for humans who are accepted within the Fae world (e.g., Kenzi) and who therefore have to essentially give up any meaningful interaction with their human families and find whatever support they need from within the Fae world, as Minime has already pointed out. The humans must also both understand and be absolutely committed to the necessity of keeping the Fae secret. (To digress a bit -- must the stay in the Fae world be permanent? What if Kenzi and Hale break up? Both Bo and Trick tried to convince Kenzi in Season 2 that she should take Nate and move away, returning to a human life. It seems they thought she could be trusted).

Back to the main issue -- does this bring us back to the 'one true life-long love' problem? I read romance literature -- and watch LG incessantly :-) -- but I don't believe in ONE TRUE LOVE. I think there are lots of people out there in the world that we could love; life circumstances bring us to one particular person at a particular time (or maybe more, but let's leave the polyamory option :-) aside for now). Hale can love Kenzi -- a whole lot -- and yet not be doomed to a life of miserable solitude once she dies (and she needs to accept that). If it's a matter of a species characteristic, like supposedly Dyson's love is, then OK. But even there, I have argued previously that it is not the fact that he loves Bo, but the fact that he commits for life to her alone, that sets their love apart from other relationships he's had. So, to come (finally) to the end of this argument, I think that Hale and Kenzi could be happy, within the Fae world, and with a supportive Faemily, provided they deal with the lifespan issue (and it can be done).

But friends and neighbours, it ain't gonna happen, or at least not for long. Too bad. A happy ending? Where's the drama in that? Hey, I wonder if they could be reunited for the end of the series? Too trite and obvious?
Nadine Robb
89. cmm
@Kiersten I totally agree with your post. The fae are snobs and I have long since suspected some of their rules were just to keep the rest of fae from mixing with humans.

@Isbloom
I would be upset if they backtracked on the human+fae=no powers. It was in the second episode and it wasn't presented as propaganda, but as fact. Trick dismissed Bo having human parentage because she had powers, the Will o' the wisps kid didn't have any powers. Facts are pretty thin on the ground in the Lost Girl writers' room and they play pretty fastand loose with genetics for all they spout silly medical words. But I do prefer that they stick to what they say.
I'd say they've already backtracked on that. Taft is proof positive fae and human dna can make a hybrid. I truly believe that somewhere out there, there are hybrids. But like the fae, rather than come out to others and risk exposure, they stay hidden for their own safety.
Pandra Selivanov
90. Zanza
I don't believe in ONE TRUE LOVE. I think there are lots of people out there in the world that we could love; life circumstances bring us to one particular person at a particular time...Hale can love Kenzi...and yet not be doomed to a life of miserable solitude once she dies...

I believe that for some people, there is ONE TRUE LOVE and I don't get the "miserable solitude" thing if a person loses that loved one. In fact, I know from personal experience this is nonsense. My grandmother on my mother's side loved her husband, he died, and that was it for her. She wasn't miserably alone, either-she had her friends and her family and she also had plenty of offers for marriage. She just never got over the great love of her life, her husband. I grant it's probably extremely rare for a person to truly only love one person and to really only be happy with that person, and even more, for a person to be good company for themselves when that person is gone, but it does happen. It's not like having only one love in your life automatically equals misery and solitude once that person is gone.

I think, really, it's less about finding a new love and more about avoiding loneliness. I know several women who have stated flatout they are not really happy in their marriage, but they would rather be unhappy with their husband than live alone. And I think this is what is behind the "hookup" culture-people just don't want to be alone. I get that-lonliness is everything it's cracked up to be, but I don't get the dismissiveness that having one love is the same as misery if you can't be with that person.
Suzanne Metaxas
91. SuzyM
Well put Zanza :) Though I think that if you lose the love of your life there is no reason you can meet someone who you can love again. Each person is unique and I'm not saying you will have the same relationship you had before, but you can still have a loving one. I think that if you don't find someone else you can still be happy as long as you don't make the mistake of mourning forever. I know I would want my husband to move on if I was gone. I would want him to live his life to the fullest and I would hope that he would find someone else to make him happy for the rest of his life.

In short I think life is what you make it. Live life with a smile on your face and you will be happy, live life with a scowl on your face and you will be miserable.
Carmen Pinzon
92. bungluna
We can all come up with an exception to any "rule". That doesn't make the point invalid, imo.

I know one woman who married the love of her life and was miserable with him because he was a great womanizer, but she stayed with him till he died and never looked at another man. Her reason? She loved him and would rathe be miserable with him than do without him. The great love of her life? I guess.

More generally speaking, great inequalities in a relationship put undue strains on it. When the strain is great, the preasure to have the partner be 'worth' the 'trouble' comes into play. "I gave all this up for you so we must be deliriously happy," can be tough to live by.

Relationships are hard and require work in order to flourish. The LG fantasy world would provide a great platform to explore this issue in extremis, just like other sci-fi/fantasy works have provided forums to explore other touchy subjects. (Dracula and female sexuality; Frankenstain and science vs. God.)

I love these discussions because WE the fans can go off on tangents and look at all these issues. Too bad the writers of the show are squandering similar opportunities with their melodramas.
Suzanne Metaxas
93. SuzyM
I love these discussions because WE the fans can go off on tangents and look at all these issues. Too bad the writers of the show are squandering similar opportunities with their melodramas.
I so agree :)
"I gave all this up for you so we must be deliriously happy," can be tough to live by.
That phrase should NEVER be uttered. You should never have to give up anything to make a relationship work! You must be willing to accept your partner warts and all to make it work. As Dyson told Bo, trying to change someone to fit your idea of what they should be never works.
Carmen Pinzon
94. bungluna
In the novel "Thrones, Dominations" Felicity, the proposed future wife of Bunter, Lord Peter Wimsey's vallet, tells Harriet Vane that,
"I don't think it is a good idea for someone to come to a marriage having made enormous sacrifices. It ups the ante too much. Instead of merely needing to make someone happy, one would have to make them so happy as to make up for the loss. And somehow a loss and a gain tent to stand in separate columns, and one doesn't cancel the other."
Dorothy L. Sayers' Lord Peter and Harriet had a difficult courtship for this very reason, (one of the best romances ever imo.) This would make for rivetting drama, again imo, but LG is probably too campy for such an exploration. Still, I'm glad we can discuss it here.
ernestine henry
95. nypinta
Re: Highlander and children. No, not even before their first violent death can they have children. In the series Richie is approached by an old girlfriend that has a child and she tells him that the child is his, but Duncan insists it can't be because Immortals, even before it's triggered can not have kids. Turns out that kid isn't his. So the show made that fact cannon. (However, in the original script of the original movie Connor did have a family during the Revolutionary War era and he watched them all grow old and die and never had kids again, by choice. They cut that from the script and it wasn't mentioned.) And yes, Rachael was an orphan he found during WWII and she stayed with him and kept his secret. (Which was a type of relationship they brought back in Highlander: Raven with Amanda's assistant/confidant.) Just FYI. Carry on.
ernestine henry
96. nypinta
Because my laptop won't let me split things up with paragraphs (what is that!!?) I'm breaking this up into two posts.... fae/human pairings don't result in kids with fae powers. I don't think that's just a myth to keep the fae from mating with humans. I think it's just biological fact. Taft's experiments was to change his DNA to make him fae. Dyson calling him a hybrid doesn't actually make him one. I think had he lived, eventually the faeness in the cabott's DNA would have made him completely a fae. (But not one that the fae would ever accept, I think. Because he was a human and humans are beneath them and science isn't going to change that. But that just highlights that by ending Taft and making his plans so lame means they wasted another opportuny to explore how fae see humans as less than and Bo's conflict with most of faedom about humans.)
Marie Sullivan
97. Minime
Can I just say it warms my heart to be able to chat with people who can quote Highlander the movies, series and spinoff plus LG, a Bronte novel, Star Trek and argue who played the better MR Rochester.
Pandra Selivanov
98. Zanza
Well put Zanza :) Though I think that if you lose the love of your life there is no reason you can meet someone who you can love again. Each person is unique and I'm not saying you will have the same relationship you had before, but you can still have a loving one. I think that if you don't find someone else you can still be happy as long as you don't make the mistake of mourning forever.

Thanks, Suzy! Well, I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head-I think most people equate not finding someone else to be the equivalent of mourning forever. It just ain't necessarily so-a person could just have the feeling that they were happy with that one great love, and if they don't find that happiness again, they're not going to settle for something less. I think our society really fosters the idea of settling for second best unless and until you find something better, and also I think a lot of people are LOOKING for the right person, rather than BEING the right person.

As to sacrifices, I think it depends on the reason for the sacrifice and if the person making it is willing. Let's say a person who is totally into mountain climbing falls in love with a person who is afraid of heights. Somebody here is going to have to make a sacrifice. Either the mountain climber is going to have to accept their partner will never share the joy of climbing with them, or the partner will have to get over their fear. Either path is fraught with difficulty, also possibly new discoveries. Like the old saw goes, maybe you don't get what you want but you might get what makes you happy.

Oh, and for the record, Timothy Dalton was absolutely the best Rochester. :D
Nadine Robb
99. cmm
@Zanza I can agree with this:
Oh, and for the record, Timothy Dalton was absolutely the best Rochester. :D
I have his version of Jane Eyre and I watch it religiously lol!
ernestine henry
100. Char
Zanza:

Timothy Dalton was also the best James Bond.

You know, James Bind fell in love with Vespa in Casino Royale. It didnt work because there were tooany secrets. I full beloved that if Vespa told James the truth, she would still be alive.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
101. Kiersten
I agree with the James/Vespa deal. They were great together. Every time I watch that movie, I still yell at the screen when she breaks the lock. Had she told him, they wouldve made it. But then, he wouldnt be James Bond
Kiersten Hallie Krum
102. Kiersten
I also think Timothy Dalton's James Bond gets a short shift. I love Living Daylights. Its chessy but few things beat skiing with a cello
ernestine henry
103. whiskeywhite
Let's not forget Char's citation of "Bewitched". Did you watch that in the original or in rerun Char? If the former, you're dating yourself (and me, I was already a teenager when that series debuted). Interesting that they were having that rather heavy discussion about dying in a fantasy series as much as 50 years ago (!). Come on LG, get with the times.
Pandra Selivanov
104. Zanza
The only James Bond movie I really like is License to Kill. James seemed so human and vulnerable in that. Oh, and he was played by Timothy Dalton!
ernestine henry
105. Char
Kiersten

I too believe Timothy Dalton got the short end of the stick. He is my favorite James Bond. The cello scene was awesome.

Zanza

License to Kill is my favorite James Bond movie. James quits his job and became a vigilante for his friend and his dead wife.

Whiskeywhite

I watched Bewitched in reruns. I love the premise that a witch fell in love with a human. Samantha knew the consequences and was willing to do it. I fell in love with that series and I believed in it. I wish Lost Girl would use it. I believe in love. I love the brother sister relationship that is Dyson and Kenzi. I love the brother in arms that is Hale and Dyson. I love the "lets be together in 100 years that is Dyson and Bo. I love the sister in arms that is Bo and Kenzi. I miss those relationships. Bring it back!
ernestine henry
106. Tamsin's Panties
My fear is yeah that Bo and Tamsin will be written as half sisters.
I'm gonna be one pissed off Valkubus fan if they decide to go
that route. For the writers and producers to have all the sexual
subtext between those two only for them to end up half sisters
will definetly send me over the edge. grrrrrrr!!!!!
Suzanne Metaxas
107. SuzyM
Don't worry until you see it. So far these writers have done nothing we expected them to do. Me I'm hoping for more Dyson/Bo *sigh* but doesn't mean I'll get it :)
ernestine henry
108. Tamsin's Panties
@SuzyM you know you are right generally I do take a wait and see
attitude towards things like this. I guess I'll just really will be annoyed
if the LG took all that effort to establish all that subtext just to turn
them into half sisters talk about pandering. Most of the Valkubus
fans are ex-Doccubus fans who simply feel that Tamsin is way better
suited for Bo than either Lauren or Dyson. I will say that simple can't
stand most of the Doccubus people. I hope hope the death of Doccubus is right around the corner. I wouldn't mind Lauren remaining a character on the show just not a romantic one. I will say that if
Tamsin doesn't wind up with Bo, then yeah I'd like to see Bo and
Dyson back together just for the simple fact of pissing all the
Doccubus crowd off. I post alot at the syfy forum and the showcase
blog and I can just hear the wailing cries of the Doccubus people,
if they break up Bo and Lauren for good. The very thought brings
a big smile to my face. I sat and watched the Doccubus crowd
merciously attack Dybo and well they've done the same thing to
us Valkubus people. I if you haven't noticed am looking for a little
comupence. Even though it appears that most of the posters are
dybo fans and not Valkubus I'd just like to say well done to all the
people here. All the posters here are very articulate and seem to
be willing to give a very well thought out post about LG. You don't
go on and on and on about you love for one particular ship. Ya'll seem
more intent on fixing what is wrong with LG instead of drooling
over a particular character and ship, so I'd like to say good for you all
thanks for your insightfull posts.

I too would also like to say how facinated I am by the thought of all the
death scenes in episode 1 but have to say I hope you guys are dead
wrong when it comes to the wanderer killing and bringing Tamsin back
to life over and over again. I don't think that my poor little heart can
take such abuse thrown at Tam Tam like that. Also I would like to say
that I think that RS and ZP have been given a gag rule. I think that the
PTB have forbidden them both to tweet anything about LG. I would like to point out that RS has been in Toronto since June 2nd. If she
isn't suppose to be on set till Anna was, then why arrive the day before
June 3rd when every one else was due on set? Anna didn't start shooting any scenes till I think June 21st. No I think that RS has
been shooting but they the PTB don't want anyone to know. For the
life of me I am not sure why the PTB are playing those kind of games, unless the are trying to avoid the doccubus crowd from getting all upset. Of course ZP hasn't said one word about being on set either.
I don't know I think it's ridiculous myself but oh well.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
109. Kiersten
Hi @Tamsin'sPanties. Glad you've joined us here.

I have to agree about the Twitter gag rule on RS and ZP, though RS is starting to tweet about when she's on set if not what's she's doing and/or with whom. The overall silence from those two actresses (especially ZP) is too obvious not to be deliberate, and I can only guess as well that it is indeed to avoid upsetting the doccubus fans or perhaps to avoid spilling the Great Reveal in general, whatever that may be. Despite my personal feelings on the direction this series has taken the last two seasons, I still default to the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. Guess I'm just a sucker that way.

I also agree that these games by TPTB are silly and juvenile. It's a shame they can't just make the show without worrying about how one particular fan base is going to respond to their decisions. They certainly don't show any such concern for any other faction, which is also a shame. (Yes that is a tinge of sour grapes, but I think we've more than earned them by now.)

I too hope this is the end of doccubus, hallelujah, amen, but too many of the cast and showrunners/producers have admitted that the triangle will never go away for good, at least not until the series ends completely, and I think none of us are ready for that to happen. And while I do hope that Tamsin and Bo are related as opposed to new lovers in S4 (somebody besides Kenzi has to have an intimate relationship w/Bo that doesn't involve sex!), I do agree that Tamsin is a vastly better partner for Bo than Doctor Lauren in many, many ways.

I appreciate your kind comments about the community here. While commenters might not agree with an opinion (or a 'ship ;)), everyone respects each other's right to have one and to support the union that hits your particular hot spots. We argue ideas and philosophies, story and character, but never (deliberately) attack people personally. I hope you'll continue to be a part of that.

It's gratifying to have that effort recognized, so thanks again. Come back to comment on S4!
ernestine henry
110. Tamsin's Panties
Sure it's always nice to talk about LG anytime, and I always try to
be respectful. I haven't found alot of that from the Doccubus
crowd which is regretable but oh well what can you do? I guess
that we'll just have to see what kind of direction the writers take
with Tamsin and Bo. It's just there seemed to be such a build
up of something romantic between those two. I suppose alot of
people think that those of us who support Valkubus are only seeing
what we want, but I myself always try to take a step back and
try not to do that. They have something in mind for those two, and
it's going to be very interesting to see. Thanks Kiesten nice to talk
to you too.
Nadine Robb
111. cmm
@Tamsin's Panties No I don't think that you see what you want. Tamsin and Bo definately had a buildup of something. There are many people Bo meets where I definately see it could become something. I'm glad as a fan you are open minded, it makes commenting fun!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
112. Kiersten
Well, you guys asked for it. Well, some of you did. Others of you lurkers wish I'd just shut up and jump off a cliff. (And you thought I didn't know. Bless. ;)

I'm recapping a new show this summer, a weekly Hiatus Rewatch of the amazing Orphan Black. Check it out at http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2013/07/orphan-black-season-1-episode-1-hiatus-rewatch-recap-separated-at-birth
ernestine henry
113. Char
Hey you guys....

Showcase. Lost Girl! November 10th!

Check out the link!!!!!!

http://www.showcase.ca/shows
Heather Waters (redline_)
115. redline_
Great catch, Char! Just did a quick post: http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2013/07/lost-girl-season-4-premieres-november-10

And thanks, cmm! I didn't realize SpoilerTV had already posted about it!
Linda Losik
116. LindaL
@Kiersten: as a lurker (so far), I have NEVER wished that you would jump off a cliff or to be HUSH...So THERE :-)

My deepest thanks to everyone for giving me a wonderful Lost Girl fix. All I want from season 4 is for Lauren to be downgraded to Hale's season 3 level. I am so sick to death of her, well and the pandering too that if it wasn't for Kiersten's blog, I might have given up on Lost Girl. I do wonder how many others felt this alienated and just stopped watching.

My other hope is that the writers discover the meaning of the word consistency! That would be awesome!
Suzanne Metaxas
119. SuzyM
For those that might be interested 4 Cast members of Lost Girl will be appearing at Dragon Con you can get more info here www.krisholden-ried.com/thread.php?lng=en&pg=1485&fid=1&cat=3
ernestine henry
120. Lostgirlfan
@LindaL I know what you mean I am sick to death of Lauren her whole story line is old and tired and worn out. The pandering as far as I am concerned is really sickening. She's been on the show for 3 seasons now and it's still the same old song and dance with Bo and Lauren. It would be awesome if they would just relagate her to a part time character. The writers and producers really do need to do something really great for season 4, because they may start losing some of their views. I read alot of people's comments about season 3. The majority of them are really just confused with how the whole season went. I think perhaps the fact that the writers thought that they were going to have to write for 22 episodes, but instead wound up only writing for 13 may have something to do with it. I also think that the new character Tamsin was a big hit and really gave the show a big shot in the arm.
Suzanne Metaxas
121. SuzyM
Bottom line is we need Dyson back with Bo! If she doesn't have a rock solid partner she just drifts and has no anchor in life. We need the family unit of Bo/Dyson/Kenzi back Find a human love intrest for Lauren, becuase I don't want to lose her character though I do want to see her go back to the more self assured doctor of S1.
ernestine henry
122. TheGardner
Ugh, snore! Keirsten I love your writing style, and will probably continue to read your recaps, but Dyson has to be one of the most boring, one-dimensional characters currently on scripted TV. Give the dude a personality transplant and maybe a story line that doesn't revolve around Bo and maybe I can get on board, until then wolf boy's on mute.

As for the rest, eh, let's first see if the writers can wrap up the story lines from the previous season in under 9 episodes, before we worry about such things as character growth and consistent storytelling.
ernestine henry
123. Char
@TheGardner: Dyson is not a boring, one dimensional character. A one dimensional character is someone who never grows and stays the same for the entire course of a medium. In this case the medium is Lost Girl. In the first few episodes of Season 1, Dyson did not care much for humans but he cared enough for Kenzi that he went looking for her after she left the clinic after eating bad food, and found her scent, found her on a bench and had Kenzi lay her head on his shoulders. He did not have to do that but he has heart and cares for Kenzi. At the end of Season 1, he sacrificed his love for Bo to save her. In Season 2, he changed into the nastiest person alive but even when he was a total douche, he told Kenzi in "Original Skin" something like you are the steongest person I know. I get it. You do not like Dyson. That is fine. Whatever it may be. But to say he is one dimensional, that is not true. To say he is a boring, that is not true. Dyson has heart, is extremely noble, and never stood in the way of the woman he loves loving someone else.

I do agree that the show does have Dyson revolving around Bo alot and I wish that the viewers (me too) could see his family life, something in his 900 or 1300 year life. Because I love my wolf! :)

i hope you were being sarcastic about consistent storytelling and character development.
ernestine henry
124. Char
It wasnt Original Skin. Oops! Great episode BTW.
ernestine henry
125. TheGardner
You do not like Dyson. That is fine. Whatever it may be. But to say he is one dimensional, that is not true. To say he is a boring, that is not true.

@Char- You do realize that you invalidated your point by stating I have a right to my opinion then pushing yours on to me? It doesn't matter, I already know I am in the minority here. I enjoy reading Keirsten's recaps, but I tend to roll my eyes when she or anyone else here goes on their Dyson Fangrrl tirades. I do think the character is boring, one-dimensional and hasn't had any growth or development since season 1. I will give you, season 1 Dyson was a good character, but he hasn't had a story line since and his love-lost-love-regained crap dragged on for too many episodes for me to care.


I do not feel the show woud be improved by getting him and Bo back together. Bo is a selfish immature character that has regressed over the course of season 3(I don't believe that can be blamed on Dr. Lauren, oh no, that's all Bo) and Dyson is still wanting that epic forever love with her, yeah that will work out about as well as it did for them in season 1.

I actually wasn't being sarcastic, I think that the writers need to figure out how to clean up the mess they made from last season(gaping plot holes, damage to all characters) and they need to do it before we are 9 episodes into a 13 episode season.

These are my opinions; you keep loving your wolf and I will continue finding him nauseating.
ernestine henry
126. Char
The Gardner: I am not trying to push my point. I was explaining on why I disagree with your opinion of Dyson. However, If it felt that I was pushing my opinion on yours, it is with an apology and to say I do not want you to feel that way. I hope that you accept it. :)
Pandra Selivanov
127. Zanza
I think that the writers need to figure out how to clean up the mess they made from last season(gaping plot holes, damage to all characters) and they need to do it before we are 9 episodes into a 13 episode season.
I think so too and fortunately it's a pretty easy fix. All they need to do is become storytellers again and stop pandering to Doccubus and the problem will fix itself.
ernestine henry
128. LostgirlFan
@Zanza I am a Valkubus fan too along with Tamsin's Panties so clearly
I lean towards that ship. I agree it would be nice to have them stop
pandering to Doccubus so much. If I had my way the triangle would
involve Tamsin, Bo, and Dyson. I don't think anyone knows how
things are going to turn out for season 4? I too don't want to see Lauren off the show. I just don't want her to be such a big part of Bo's life. If you think about it she's a human doctor. All that she is really
good at is providing information to help Bo, and there is certainly
nothing wrong with that. Bo needs all the help she can get. That is
why she sould only be a part time player. More Bo, Kenzi, Dyson, and
of course my new fav Tamsin. They are the ones who go out and solve
the crimes and get their hands all dirty. The good Doctor should remain in the Lab. If the writers want to give her a human female as
a new love interest then cool. I think that the good doctor is going
to find life alot more easier with someone of the same species to love.
It was a better show when LG in season 1 had the show revolve around
Bo and Kenzi out on their adventures. Throw in some shanangians
with Dyson and Tamsin in and out of the bedroom and voila you are
back to a great show.
Marie Sullivan
129. Minime
It was a better show when LG in season 1 had the show revolve around Bo and Kenzi out on their adventures. Throw in some shanangians with Dyson and Tamsin in and out of the bedroom and voila you are back to a great show.
I agree 1000%
ernestine henry
130. TheGardner
@Char- The way you worded things it seemed like you were saying have your opinion, but you are wrong and I am right. No worries, and though I appreciate your appology it was totally unecessary, but thanks.

Wow it seems I do not fit in here because in my opinion the three strongest and most interesting characters are Bo, Kenzi and Lauren. All of this crying about Docctopia reads like sour grapes and I felt like there was more pandering to the DyBot fanbase last season because TPTB didn't want to alienate them. This is why we had them hook up in 3x04, that "happy family" moment with Dyson, Bo and Kenzi when they emerged from the Kitsune cage, the awkward flirting in 3x12, and the mess that was The Yawning. Personally if I was a Dyson fan and these little nuggets were what I was given I would have moved on long ago. I never understood the push to put a succubus in a relationship anyway, but then when they did it, instead of developing the actual relationship it became all about how hard it was for her to be in a relationship, um OK, duh.

At this point, since I see no redeeming quality in either character and could care less about their stories or what happens to them so I would be more than fine with Dyson and Tamsin dying in the truck crash. I think they both are awful and bring down the show. The sad thing is I used to like them both, but now ugh. Or if they have to live then make them a couple because they are tollerable on screen together.

And Valkubus- gag me! What happened to the real Tamsin? You know the snarky bitch that called Bo out on her shit and wanted to see her in jail, where did she go? TPTB took this strong female warrior and turned her into an alcoholic Bo loving drone, lame.

Season 3 had some good moments, but overall was a mess, I will watch the beginning of season 4 to see what happens, but it will take a massive overhall to get me to watch the whole thing. If the creators really want to pander to their fanbase then listen to what we are saying and tell a better story.
Suzanne Metaxas
131. SuzyM
Dr Lauren is a clingy unhappy charachter in S3 and extreamly boring. No matter what Bo tries to do to please her is never enough. The culmination of her me me attitude came in Delinquents when the "break" occurred. Her little speech showed just how selfcentered she was. I'm hoping the stick to their guns and end it!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
132. Kiersten
I found those moments to be not pandering to the Team Badass contingent, but rather a sop to that fan base and thus a tacit acknowledgement of the blantant pandering done for the doccubus fan base, which was launched with a S3 opener homage to a B movie only a certain segment of the Lost Girl audience could be relied on to recognize. The Happy Sunshine Gang (which does, in fact, track back to season 1) and the rest may have been "here ya go, please don't leave us," moments, but were also quickly dialed back within an episode so as not to incure the Doccubus Mafia wrath. Give with one hand, take with the next 3 episodes.

I don't believe it's sour grapes. That term implies fans are only upset because we don't have Team Badass reunited. But anyone who spends any time reading the entirety of comments here, will notice that the largest disappointment expressed is the sacrifice of character and story consistency and advancement in favor of promoting a specific (minor) fan-base supported relationship (that even the two characters involved in it admit doesn't work). We had a savvy, sexy, woman power, urban fantasy show in season 1 that, bit by bit, has been picked apart and retconned over two seasons in order to satisfy one vocal segement of fans and a clear agenda. Since then we've suffered glaring lack of continuity, defamation of primary characters, and a reduction of the hero to nearly a whiny, inconsistent, self-centered Mary Sue. There's nothing wrong with being equally vocal as other fans to express our disappointment with having lost that show with which we first fell in love without the school-yard accusations of "sour grapes". (BTW, Bo and Doctor Lauren were in somewhat of a relationship in season one too, one that epically failed there as well. You'd think they'd get a clue.)

Alternatively (and without surprise to the regulars here), I find its Doctor Lauren who is the most uninteresting character on the show and I think that's been duly evidence by the show's actions in desperately trying (and failing) to make her character more interesting through various additions to an ever more complicated and absurd backstory. This isn't character growth this is, "wow, she's kinda blah up against Dyson the others. What can we do to fix that? Oh, I know! A secret identity!" Please.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, here and elsewhere, and that so many express opposing thoughts here is what keeps the conversations interesting. Let's avoid accusing one another of juvenile bitterness when, in actuality, what's being expressed is a deep dissatisfaction with a show that had such promise (promise that still glimpses through even now, which is why so many are still hanging on) and has since disappointed so many so greatly.
Marie Sullivan
133. Minime
in actuality, what's being expressed is a deep dissatisfaction with a
show that had such promise (promise that still glimpses through even
now, which is why so many are still hanging on) and has since
disappointed so many so greatly.
I agree 1,000,000% It's so sad to see all the promise of season 1 wasted, story lines dropped and characters retconned beyond recognition because of a show runner who can't self edit her own arcs, pace a show correctly, and who doesn't understand the genre she is working in.

I think over all the majority of if not all of the fan base is unhappy with the show runners and not about ships but about the entire show in general.
ernestine henry
134. Char
The Gardner: Thanks for accepting my apology. On to the Discussion!

As much as I did not like Season 3 also, I will watch Season 4 till the Season Finale. I believe this show can still become great. Would I be upset, if Dr Lauren and Bo are still together? Yes! But If my WolfDyson can handle it, then so can I. If my WolfDyson is ok with waiting 100 years, then so am I.

"Personally if I was a Dyson fan and these little nuggets were what I was given I would have moved on long ago."

I am a Dyson fan and I don't see Dyson losing his love, gaining it back and waiting 100 years as little nuggets. I find the "nuggets" charming where in a 21st century world human chivalry has become non existent. It is sweet to see a Fae with powers be chivalrous and noble. So I cannot move on from Dyson, Bo, Kenzi and Lost Girl. I am in it for the long run.
ernestine henry
135. TheGardner
This is my issue with the concept of Docctopia:

3x01- Bo and Lauren were at the forefront

3x02- Lauren is on screen for a three minute love scene, after which she is absent for the remainder of the episode, which is all about Bo and Kenzi and introducing the "real" Tamsin

3x03- Bo and Lauren have one scene together as a couple before Bo turns teen queen, the rest of the episode she and Kenzi work together trying to cure the teen trio, while fighting off killer pigs

3x04- Was heavy on the BoLo(ship names are so stupid, I feel like I am loosing IQ points just typing them), but also used a weak story line to facilitate a Dyson/Bo hook-up. Bo spent ten years killing her human lovers, seriously TPTB expected us to believe she would stupidly risk Lauren's life like that by not feeding, but whatever

3x05- Also heavy on the BoLo and incredibly tacky

3x06- Bo gets locked in a cell, blames Lauren, then goes off to find the real Kenzi and spends the majority of the episode with Tamsin

3x07- BoLo has one scene together before Bo takes off with Kenzi to make peace with her momma

3x08- Again, one scene with them on screen together, they do talk on the phone a few times, but Bo is busy saving the crying girl in Fae Tombstone alongside Tamsin

3x09- One or two scenes as them, then there was that weird cop thing where I guess Lauren was supposed to be Dyson, or whatever. Bo spent the majority of the episode trapped in the temple with Dyson

3x10- Heavy on the BoLo, Lauren wants to talk, Bo goes off on her crusade, they both get attacked then break-up

3x11- No scenes together, Bo does mention her twice while she is off fighting witches in suburbia with Kenzi

3x12- Bo is actively looking for her, but most of the episode she is alongside Tamsin while Lauren is busy sciencing her science

3x13- Bo gets captured and they have one scene together before Lauren disappears into the ether or saves the human race or whatever

So in a season of 13 episodes the main character's relationship was at the forefront in 4 maybe 5 episodes, the rest were focused on other characters and story lines. I believe that Team Badass fans would at least expect the same treatment should Bo and Dyson become a couple again, hence the reason I used the term "sour grapes". I was actually referring to the notion of Docctopia as petty not any individual, so with my appologies, I'll leave you to it.
ernestine henry
136. LostgirlFan
@Kiersten I would like to say that I enjoy reading your re-caps of each
episode, but am very interested in how you are going to pull it off
come Nov 10th? Unless of course you are located in Canada how do
you plan on re-capping each episode? Syfy has already stated that they
don't plan to have their LG season start until Jan 2014 which I think is
totally moronic but that's their decision. Am I right in assuming that
you will have to watch the show on hulu or some other online service?
Will you have to wait till someone downloads each episode to youtube?
It just boggles my mind that Showcase and Syfy can't get on the same
page. I for one am in the States but have absolutely no intentions what
so ever in waiting till Jan 2014 to watch season 4. I am not sure how
this is going to go for SyFy's ratings? Anyways I was just curious. :)

@Thegardner seems that you've just given more people here more
of a reason not to like Doccubus or their fans. You also said that
you liked Tamsin when she was more of a get in the face of Bo
character. Well I didn't much care for her judging Bo without
giving her a benefit of the doubt. She just got all up in her face
without knowing all the facts. It wasn't until she started to realize
that Bo wasn't some crazied dark Fae killer that her stance towards
Bo changed. She started to care about Bo and everyone else and that
is why she turned to Alcohol, which by the way is a problem for alot
of people. Tamsin at the end of the season had totally started to unravel because she hated what she was being made to do. She found
out what Bo was really all about and started to care about her and the
Happy Sunshine Gang. She finally found herself a family that she
desparately wants to be a part of. It kind of funny what people will
do for Love and acceptance huh? I absolutely fell in love with who
Tamsin became at the end of the season. I always love seeing a
redemption story even for a snarky Valkyrie.

@Char well Thegardner exclaimed that you were wrong and he/she
was right in post #130, but nope I disagree with that notion and I
support what you said for what it's worth.

@Minime that you for agreeing with me that is always nice to see :).
I am sure there are things that alot of people are going to disagree
with me on, so I'll just put that agreement on your part in the kitty.

@SuzyM well I couldn't have said it better myself. I like Dr Lauren
but her expections are way off base. No offence to all the ladies out
there which btw I am also, but Dr Lauren needs to stop acting like a
chick! Having said that I will say that Dyson has a little growing up
to do as well. He's way to territorial over her, but he has grown since
season 1 and has gotten better. I would like to point out that it is
indeed Tamsin who told Bo in the infamous bathtub scene that she
Tamsin thought Bo was perfect. That is why I like Tamsin as a love
interest for Bo. Tamsin seems to be the only one who likes Bo how
she is, and doesn't want to change her. That's not to say that I believe
that Tamsin will be the perfect mate, but for now until she proves me
wrong seems to be the better suited for Bo.
ernestine henry
137. TheGardner
@LostgirlFan- Actually I am not a Doccubus fan. I like Lauren's character, why would I want to see her paired with that immature, self-centered, brat of a succubus? I think that she and Bo made a better couple or at least had the potential to be a better couple than Bo and Dyson. Bo is a terrible partner, Dyson and/or Tamsin can have her. I guess I'm Team Human(not meaning Kenzi and Lauren getting sexual). My posts have been really negative, I had stepped away from Lost Girl at the end of the season and reading this blog and these comments has made me so frustrated because I really did love this show at one time. I want to like it again, but it's so hard, especially when it feels like the creators don't care enough to even make a veiled attempt at continuity.
ernestine henry
138. Char
TheGardner: What if Bo being an immature, self centered brat of a succubus is a succubus normal? I mean we the viewers don't know how a 30 year old succubus should behave. All we know is Aife and some snapshots of Bo's grandmother. What is immature for a 30 year old human may be different for a 30 year old succubus. Which is why, I would like to see in Season 4 more of Bo's succubus family and then we can find out if Bo is fae normal.

So I was daydreaming at work about Lost Girl. (Yes you may snicker). I came to realize what if Bo's father could not mark Bo until she passed her Dawning. The Dawnin is a rites of passage. If Bo never made it from the Dawning and she became underfae then her father may not have wanted her. But since she passed her rites, her father welcomes her with open arms. Just saying.

LostGirlFan: Thanks for the support. And yeah Kersten will you recap Lost Girl in November? I hope so because I do not k ow if I can wait until January!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
139. Kiersten
In general, here at Heroes & Heartbreakers, we follow the U.S. schedule for Lost Girl. We made a few exceptions with the end of S3 so that there'd be a place to discuss the show right away & then again with th U.S. Showing. I'm not sure what the plan will be yet for S4. I actually really like when the U.S. & Canada schedules are not aligned b/c it gives me time to do the posts properly, with sleep, and not on a 24 hr turnaround time. ;) We'll keep you posted!
ernestine henry
140. TheGardner
@Char- She is a "baby fae", I don't really know how it works, but it felt like the Dawning made her regress more towards the character she was in season 1. I liked Bo at the end of season 2 and the beginning of season 3, it seemed as though she was coming in to her powers and was behaving like an adult. Then somehow we ended up with the 30 year old teenager so I guess in a lot of ways that would make her perfect for Dyson the 1500 year old teenager. I guess I am picky, but I like adult characters to act like adults, that's probably why I like Lauren, she is a grown-up.

If we are looking at succubi, perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they aren't exactly relationship material. Great in bed, but shitty partners. Not being able to form lasting deep romantic connections with people could easily truncate someones developmen. Unfortunately we only have Bo to go on because Aoife was nuts. What do you think?
Marie Sullivan
141. Minime
@TheGardner I can't believe you call 3x05 tacky but 3x01 is OK. To me 3x01 was disgusting and broke every one of ML rules for the show. It was degrading to both women and the LGBT community plus glossed over the rape of numinous women.

I thought 3x05 had some real possibilities and was upset that they killed off the Bacchaus. I thought he could have been an entryway for Bo to become dark and also I found the idea that after all the centuries he had lost his ability to feel pleasure and feed (like Vex loosing his powers at his advanced age) and I though that could have been a great arc for Bo to learn and grow from. Overall the writers created some great characters this year but seemed to waste them on awful arcs and story lines. Taft, The Bacchaus, The gilly suit lady, The Morrigan and badKenzi aka notKenzi were all wasted.

I agree that ship names are dumb and I really dislike Doccubus because it goes against what Bo sand in DisMembers that she is more then her species and to me boiling down Bo & Lauren to their species/jobs is degrading as they are more then their circumstances.

I know some one talked about Tamsin accepting Bo as she is but in actuality both DL & Dyson do as well, they love her just as she is. Dyson remarked in Didmembers that trying to change someone never works out and they both agreed to talk to each other and work it out, that he is territorial and stubborn but he loves her and doesn't want her to change for him. DL also said the same thing in the break up scene that Bo was happy as she is and DL wasn't and she would always want more from Bo then Bo could give and she didn't want Bo changing for her that she had to get right and be in the same place as Bo.

Char I agree with you that her father had to wait till she passed the Dawning before she would meet her. It was the line in The Ceremony that made me believe that he had been trying to breed a fae with his same powers and was unsuccessful till Bo (kind of like the Amazons in 3x01) he said I have waited so long for you so I think he may have lots of kids that he rejected who didn't have his powers of resurrection.

I agree with you TheGardner that season 3 was disappointing but I loved the 2nd half overall but had issues with some things like Bo's talk with her human mother and the gilly monster who lives in a tent in a building come on you can't get a few twigs and make a teepee outside you really have to put a pop up tent in an office building… Sorry I digress. Anyhow it is disappointing to see what could be genius made into drivel. I don't think the writers know genre enough to know that you just have to write a compelling story and the viewers will follow.

I see so many docutopia fans saying that they want the show to be groundbreaking and put the relationship out there as canon but they don't realize that every time a sci-fi show has made a real impact it was not done to "show people" it was just done because it made sense in the story and as part of the characters. I invite you all to read about Gene Roddenberry who broke ground with Kirk and Uhura kiss being the first EVER interracial kiss on TV, Mr. Checkov and even the original pilot called The Cage with a female first officer who was later recast as Nurse Chapel because the network didn't like the cerebralness of the original pilot. In genre you don't wave a flag and try to be in your face you just tell a great story that makes sense with NO plot holes (genre fans obsess and notice) with great acting (something they have already) and BOOM you make real groundbreaking tv along the lines of the master Mr. Gene Roddenberry.

So off I go again sorry for the rant but I love the decussion and I hope they @TheGardner you continue to contribute as you give me lots to consider.
Marie Sullivan
142. Minime
Oh and please don't wait me wait till January to read the recaps. PLEASE with sugar on top.
ernestine henry
143. LostgirlFan
@Minime perhaps I should have said that both Dyson and DL had times when they were more accepting of Bo as she is, but at other times did make attempts to put restrictions on Bo. DL restricted Bo from having sex with Dyson, and Dyson's unwanted and uncomfortable antagonism towards DL as a potential rival for Bo's affection was the other. Both Dyson and DL have had good moments and bad, so yeah I probably should have included that so I apologize for that. Perhaps
Tamsin too will in the future do or say something that will be construde as being not fully accepting of Bo, but to date she hasn't
so far, so I guess I will have to stand behind what I said :).
As far as ground breaking canon I am not sure that it's a television
show's job to do things like that. The tv shows are there for entertainment and not for social commentary. I for one don't want
someone else's views being crammed down my throat when watching
a show. I watch LG because it's a really good show and a great concept,
and not because it has a female and female romantic relationship.
I am certainly not opposed to that because well I am a Valkubus shipper. I guess I don't want a certain agenda being shoved down my
throat. I just want to be entertained. It's like going to a rock concert
and then having the main headliner stand there and preach to you about a certain politician or political party it's a complete turn off.
Sorry if that offends anyone but it kinda looks like I found a LG website
who has posters that won't bite my head off for having a different view from alot of other people, and I think that is great.

@TheGardner well I am not sure why but I am actually relieved to hear
that you are not a crazed doccubus support, but I for one am kinda
tired of getting attacked and being called a lunatic just because I am
not a fan of doccubus so my apologies :). I do agree with you Bo is
a bit on the immature side but not everyone grows up at the same
rate and I guess it's the writers and Jay Firestone who needs to do
a better job of presenting Bo in a more mature light. I hate to say it
but Tamsin seems to be a bit on the immature side too. Evidently
she's never been able to connect on a romantic and emotional level
for thousands of years so yeah she needs a bit of help too.

@Char you are welcome for the support when I read something and
really like what I've heard I don't mind saying so :). Also you won't
hear me snicker at the notion of you day dreaming at work about LG,
because I do it all the time and am not ashamed to say so. I love the
show and am finding it hard to let it go.

@Kiersten thanks for keeping us posted about when you will start
your recaps of LG again. I certainly hope that you will be able to
start just after Nov 10th 2013, but if you can't I understand. I am sure
it's a real beating for you to do it with not alot of sleep. I am sure no
one here wants your health to suffer :).

This goes out to anyone who wants to talk about it. I read about your
theory that Bo's father had to wait until after here dawning to see if she
was going to be acceptable. I just have one question Tamsin has been
there since basically the beginning of the season. If I am correct her
whole mission for being where she was is to find someone that Bo's
father wanted to be found real bad. If Bo's father was waiting for Bo
to go through her Dawning, then that tells me that he has known
where she was and who she was the whole season. If Bo's father
has known all along about what Bo was fixing to go though then why
sent the bounty hunter Tamsin to find her? Also why was it Bo's father that had to confirm it was Bo that Tamsin was after in episode 8?
I feel that Tamsin should have known who it was all along that she
was suppose to bring in. Sorry if these questions sound really dumb,
but alot of what I saw between Tamsins' mission and Bo's Father and the whole timing bit is really just crazy? Does anyone else feel that
way? I love to know what everyone thinks?
ernestine henry
144. CarrieKL
Lurker here...

@Minime I don't think they accept Bo as she is more than they have to accept Bo as she is because the other option would be no Bo, Lauren even goes on to say I HAVE to be ok with it. Clearly they have both taken steps to adapt to Bo's nature, they both don't "want to change her" I just don't think deep inside they accept all that Bo is at the moment, specially when it comes to her darkness. Which is why I do partially agree with the Tamsin fan in terms of accepting Bo's light and dark side. I think when it comes to Bo's darkness Lauren is definetely scared of that side of her (not that I blame her) I don't have enough at hand to claim that Dyson is bothered on screen by Bo's darkness but personally, I do believe it wouldn't be something he would be partial to. So in that context I do believe Tamsin is the one who doesn't really care one way or the other because both sides of Bo are '' perfect '' to her, I feel like she just gets Bo, she doesn't expect anything from or of her and in my opinion, especially not romantically. Which is where I disagree with LostGirlFan, I don't think Tamsin sees Bo romantically, she has pretty much walked out on Bo at every opportunity where something might start to happen. When it does happen it is always under contrived circumstances, I am totally on board with them being sisters (although a part of me doubts they will go there) and there was definetely something there with those two, yes, a connection or understanding but I just don't seem them adding to the triangle and making it a square, they can barely manage the triangle as it is. I don't think Tamsin is looking for romantic love, but friendship and care and the gang could give her that, it does not need to be romantic. I really hope they don't throw these two in bed just for the sake of it, when Tamsin could be a nice way of exploring Bo in a non romatic way since Kenzi.
I see so many docutopia fans saying that they want the show to be groundbreaking and put the relationship out there as canon but they don't realize that every time a sci-fi show has made a real impact it was not done to "show people" it was just done because it made sense in the story and as part of the characters.
This, so so much. I am not partial to any of the relationships at the moment in the show, I just want them to tell a story that is engaging and makes sense. If they want to be groundbreaking do it because it makes sense to the stories, not because you feel you have to, or because you have to carry a mantle for a segment of the fanbase.

@TheGardner I don't think those scenes were fan pandering in the least, if they have an on going triangle as they claim then those intances should be there. The only episode that feels like fan pandering to me honestly it's Caged Fae, I have seen that episode maybe twice and feel if it wasnt for the ending ( Bo choosing Lauren and feeding of the Dark Fae) I would not consider it relevant at all to anything in the story.
I, of course, mean no disrespect to anyone's opinion just my take on this all.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
145. Kiersten
@CarrieKL - thanks for delurking! Welcome!

@LostGirlFan - you're right; this is a site where you will NOT get your head cut off for having an opposing opinion. You may receive a sharply worded rebuttal, but it'll be in the spirit of debate and discussion and about your expressed comments and not you personally. Share away.
Suzanne Metaxas
146. SuzyM
The one thing that keep being said is that Dyson was jealous of DL in S1 I disagree. I think the main reason he kept telling Bo to stay away is because he didn't trust her because she was a ward of the Ash. It turned out he was right. She twice put Ash business before Bo's that I can remember off the top of my head Vexed & Arachnofaebia.

Also Tamsin was sent to get Bo by the wanderer but had no idea he was her father until the finale
ernestine henry
147. TheGardner
@LostGirlFan- I get that a lot, people assume that since I am not a fan of either Tamsin or Dyson and I like Lauren I must be of the Doccubus contingent. Personally if I had to pick a partner for Bo it would probably be Ryan, he's the only one that has ever been completely honest with her. I do not understand the need to force Bo into a relationship when she clearly isn't ready to handle one. She just discovered who she is after spending ten years believing she was a raging freak, let the woman be on her own and figure herself out. Instead TPTB have chosen to push the love angle and clearly Dyson and Lauren are the main love interests for her. So if that's who we are stuck with, then Lauren wins by default.

@Minime- There are not words to describe how offensive 3x01 is, or at least I do not possess them in my vocabulary. I will admit the first time I watched the episode I was so excited to see Lost Girl back on my TV I gave it a pass and viewed it as camp. It probably didn't hurt that I was drunk at the time. I watched it again recently and other then Bo choosing Lauren, that awesome Kenzi and Dyson moment(I do love those two together, but not sexually ew, incest) and chi-sucking that dark fae there was nothing redeeming about it and in fact it was quite awful. I meant to say something about it along those lines in my earlier post and I overlooked it, but trust me "tacky" doesn't do it justice.

One of my major issues with this season was TPTB decided to have Bo choose Lauren and then instead of actually developing the relationship, they made it about how hard it was for her to be in a relationship. OK, we already knew that so why go there again? I believe it would have come to the same if she had chosen Dyson instead. The continued persuit of the fabled love triangle is beyond destructive at this point and serves to do nothing more than damage the characters. Either have Bo grow up, make a choice and actually stick with it or have remain as is and be single.

Ugh and don't get me started on the plot holes, character missteps and the random things that felt the writers were just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. You guys give me things to think and get angry about all over again. Even though I am not a Dyson fan, I know I can come here and we can all bitch it out because we respect each other despite our differing opinions.

@CarrieKL- It felt like for me TPTB decided to go for it with BoLo then panicked about alienating Team Dyson fans so they backed off and kept dropping these little bits to keep them interested. If there was a balanced love triangle then Dyson would have been more a part of the story instead of showing up occasionly to remind us he still loves Bo. I don't think the creators expected Lauren to gain such a huge following and now they are stuck if they commit one way or the other they risk loosing half of their fan base.

@Suzy- IMO Dyson has always been jealous and territorial, and not just of Lauren; dude's a wolf, nature of his beast.
Suzanne Metaxas
148. SuzyM
@TheGardener Dyson is territorial but not crazy jealous. His main focus in S1 was protecting Bo at all costs. In S1 Lauren never loved Bo that way.
ernestine henry
149. TheGardner
@Suzy- Dyson's idea of protecting Bo was lying to her. She was desperately searching for a connection to her family, he knew it and kept it from her while persuing a relationship with her. Lauren put her loyalties to the Ash first and Dyson put his loayties to Trick first. How do you justify distinguishing one as worse than the other when they are in essence the same?
Linda Losik
150. LindaL
@TheGardner: In the first season, Dyson was not only ordered to keep away from Bo but was unable to reveal the secrets that he was keeping for the Blood King (Dyson’s liege lord). One example of her lying is when Lauren told Bo that everything is fine and then called Trick to say something completely different. And I fully agree with you about S3E1…that episode was so nauseating and offensive that even frozen vodka did not help!

What I am most troubled by is not that either one of them lies to Bo but all of the lying that seems to be going on in general. Then next thing that I am most troubled by is the deliberate pandering to the LGBT community who keep telling anyone who says anything against the sainted Lauren, that they have homophobic issues.
ernestine henry
151. LostgirlFan
@SuzyM I will have to disagree with you about the wanderer not realizing who it was that Tamsin was suppose to bring in. The wanderer let Tamsin know in episode 8 when they were in Brazenwood with the tarot cards, and then again at the very end of episode 8. I would also like to say that the wanderer made a quick appearance in episode 11. When Bo was holding hands with those 2 witches right before he incerated them he chanelled one of them. The wanderer spoke through 1 of the witches. I don't remember exactly what he said but it was something to the affect that " He and Bo will make a very powerful team and all will fear them". Anyways after he spoke to Bo through the witch he killed them both. I think that cameo by the wanderer shows that he knew who Bo was and his acceptance of her as his equal before the finale.
As far as Dyson wanting to keep Bo away from DL because he didn't
trust her yeah I could agree with that, and yeah it looks like he was
being more territorial than jealous. I do think it's safe to say that
if he could then he would try to get rid of DL. I mean afterall he did
try to get her to leave at the end of season 2 when Lachlan was dead.

@CarrieKL hello I am new here to. I used to lurk but realized it was
alot more fun to stop lurking and start talking to other posters so
glad you decided to talk :).

@LindaL LOL I am got a big chuckle out of the frozen vodka remark
very nice :) I perfer rum myself. Also I personally don't care what the
LGBT community has to say I take it with a grain of salt. They are
welcome to have their say and I am welcome to totally disreguard
what they said as well. I just chalk it up to them having a martyr
complex. I suppose that the LG people can't afford to have my same
attitude. They have to walk a fine line to try and keep as many
people watching the show whether they be gay, straight, or Bi.

@TheGardner I totally agree there are a bunch of plotholes and
missteps to go around for season 3. I just keep telling myself that
the LG people thought that they were going to get 22 episodes,
but got surprised and only got 13 episodes instead. Perhaps that
maybe why season 3 ended up so crazy? Oh and try not to let it
get you mad :). Having said that alot of people are miffed at how things played out for season 3, and that is why they had better
come up with a great season 4 or it may be their last season.

@Kiersten Have you guys ever thought of having some sort of
reply thingy that a poster can click, so that they can directly
rely to someone without having one long post to talk to
everyone? It seems it would be alot easier to do something like
that. There were some posts that I would have liked to reply to
from April but couldn't do under this format that you use here
in this particular forum/blog as of today. Anyways it's just a
suggestion :).
ernestine henry
152. LostgirlFan
@SuzyM I just reread post # 146 and just realized that you were talking
about Tamsin not knowing that the wanderer was Bo's dad sorry about
that. Please disreguard my statement about episode #11.
Suzanne Metaxas
153. SuzyM
@TheGardner Dyson lied to her to keep her safe big difference. Lauren would have had her killed in Arachnofaebia and almost got her killed in Vexed. Big difference.

What I said was Tamsin didn't know that Bo was the Wander's daughter until the finale. All she knew before that was Bo was the target she was to bring to the Wanderer. And of course the Wanderer knew Bo was his daughter, that is why he wants her.
Marie Sullivan
154. Minime
While we are on the topic of Tamsin and the finale I loved how RS played it in the cell. She didn't know who Aiofe was by looking at her but she knew her name and the look on her face once Aiofe said Bo's father is a resurrection fae of some sort you could see the light bulb moment it was great.
ernestine henry
155. TheGardner
@Suzy- In Arachnaphabia, Lauren called in the strike before she knew that it was Bo and as soon as she did she went straight to Trick, who agreed with her actions, so why no flak for the old man being fine with roasting his granddaughter? In Vexed Lauren tried to protect her by distracting Bo with sex, and after the truth came out and Bo took off, Lauren ran straight to Dyson. Bo almost got herself killed in that episode because she wouldn't listen to reason from anyone, including the Ash, Dyson, and Lauren. Dyson could have prevented her going off on the crusade in the first place if he had been honest and told her the truth about her mother, so in effect he almost got her killed too.
ernestine henry
156. Char
TheGardner: I know Bo can form a relationship with someone because she has it with Kenzi. I think Bo can separate sex from love. Bo had sex with different people in Season 3 including Dyson and she told Dyson that the sex was needed but she is in love with Lauren. Remember, Ysabeau was married to Trick and she loved him very much. And while Aife may have not liked Trick so much, she did name Bo after her mom. The nature of the succubi is not just feeding from sex. I just think Sex is to a Succubus as blood is to a vampire. When you gotta feed, you gotta feed.

Minime: Science fiction is never about the cannon. So true. When I was kid and I watched TNG for the first time, it made sense that there would be an android, a Klingon, humans, romulans and other characters. It made sense because if you are in outer space and warp speeding through planets you are bound to find non earthy habitants. It is like ok, makes sense, now tell the story. It makes sense that Bo is a succubus, needs sex to feed, is lost, and is trying to come into her own with her friends and family. Good or bad. But to say that a bisexual character with a lesbian is cannon. It is not true. It just makes sense. Now tell the story.

SuzyM: When Dyson and Lauren lie to Bo, they are trying to protect her so that she can live. Dyson uses his words to lie to Bo but it is harder blow when Lauren lies to Bo. She uses sex knowing that Bo likes her more than just a feed. It is the way that Lauren lies to Bo that I do not like.

LostGirlFan: I agree that Lauren acts like a chick to much. It is like we get it. The Fae were dishonest to you. Bad Fae ! The Fae lied about Nadia to you. Bad Fae! You found out you were cattle to Fae and not a human being. Bad Fae! Ok. Lauren needs to wake up and figure out that she is worth more than just her genius IQ. She is strong and she is every woman and she needs to start acting like it. I was peed off when Taft shows her the caged fae, she sees Dyson and then just willingly enters the cage. Like what the heck! Can I get a scream, can I get a heck no Taft, can I get a trying fist in Tafts stomach. Nope! Nothing. So yes, To everyone please excuse my language but she needs to grown some.

Kiersten: I would like to tell you that I will not read any spoilers on Lost Girl when it comes on in November and pledge myself to reading your recaps in January. But who I am kidding. :) I will read the spoilers but I won't discuss it. Alright, you twisted my arm, I won't read the recaps in November. November 10th will be one of the Saddest days in the universe.
Suzanne Metaxas
157. SuzyM
NO Lauren called in the strike after Dyson told her it had Bo. She could have called for a quaranteen instead of a cleansing but didn't. Dyson called both Lauren & Trick on the fact that they weren't even giving Bo a chance. Dyson always choses Bo above anything else. In Baramitz he even gives her the plans to the Ashe's residence.
ernestine henry
158. TheGardner
@Char- I agree that Bo can have strong relationships, but my issue is her inability to build a strong, long, lasting romantic relationship with anyone. Lauren was accepting, or about as accepting as one can be, of her nature and if Bo had been a grown-up and actually talked to her, it would have gone a long way towards solidifying them as a couple. People grow and evolve at different rates, if she didn't want to grow up, don't try to be in an adult relationship.

@Suzy- The Security Alert is already flashing on the screen when Lauren is on the phone with Dyson. Serena comes in after Lauren hangs up the phone and asks her what the situation is because the alarm has already sounded. Even if you disagree with me on the chain of events, can you explain then why if Lauren called for a cleansing did she go to Trick for help solving the killer spider problem? I mean then why bother? It seems to me she might as well go home and see what's on TV.

My take on this episode is simple; in the military we are taught to distinguish between the mission or the man. In this case Lauren had an ethical obligation to protect the city at large from a dangerous parasite, knowing it was Bo doesn't change that. If she does nothing and the spider continues killing more innocent people then that burden falls on her. Trick's responsibility is similar, albiet more covert. Dyson, being a police detective has a sworn duty to protect the public, which he completely fails at by putting Bo first. He lets his emotions cloud his judgement, and this could have resulted in several deaths, but since he's Dyson and he was doing it for love, his actions have no consequences. He's the hero and Lauren's the monster, alrighty then.
ernestine henry
159. Char
SuzyM:I agree with you that Lauren has an underhanded way of playing with Bo. I agree with you that Dyson puts Bo first. He believes in her. In Season 3 he even tells Bo that when people believe in you, people come out on top.Dyson forgets that too. He should have believed in Bo at the end of Season 1 and trust that Bo would have been ok with Aife. But that was the moment when I realized that Dyson was in love with Bo. Love at times makes no sense. When he gave his love to the Norn. :( Heartbreaking....I still get sad when I see that episode.

TheGardner: Bo had a healthy relationship with Dyson. Dyson never tried to change Bo. It was Bo who wanted to change for him. Bo stayed monogamous for Dyson. My issue with Lauren and Bo is that they never talked.They never communicated to each other about their relationship. You have to communicate in a relationship. With Dyson and Bo, they talked. Even when the other person did not want to hear it.

In the military, we do seperate the man from the mission. But if i found out that i have the power to save my friend, then i would try. Lauren does not use her instintchs. She relies on her brain power. Dyson is a police officer and he has a duty to protect the public. I don't know if he was in love with Bo then but he trusts Bo to fix the situation. He has always trusts Bo and as a police officer it is sometimes about instincts rather than logic.
Suzanne Metaxas
160. SuzyM
Didn't say the security alert wasn't flashing. Said she could have called for quarantine not a cleansing. At least TRY to save her before incinerating her. And yes Dyson loves Bo to a fault never said different. I guess I think that kind of love is good. I want someone who loves me first and foremost and will risk all to keep me safe. Lauren is cold and calculating and not fully committed as was born out this season with the break. So yes I prefer the Dyson/Bo relationship. We just see things differently and that's OK. Variety is the spice of life ;)
Suzanne Metaxas
161. SuzyM
@Char Dyson never intended to give his love away. He thought that he was giving up his wolf, his very essence to save her. He didn't realize how much in love with her he was and that his love for Bo was what he cherished most. The Norn did and ripped his love from him. The curse was diabolical! He could remember how much he loved her but couldn't feel it anymore. I always thought of it as you could remember how good some food you loved tasted but every time you ate it now it tasted like ashes. After the Norn every time Dyson let Bo feed from him he looked like he was in pain. :(
ernestine henry
162. Char
SuzyM: OMG!!! I am forgetting alot from Lost Girl. I need to buy the DVDs. But that is right. He never knew how much he loved her until the Norn. Oh....my heart is breaking. :(
Suzanne Metaxas
163. SuzyM
@Char yup I hate watching S1-13 my heart hurts every time I watch that bitch ripping his love from his chest! I have the BlueRay of S1 & 2 and watch them all the time. Though I will confess, I watch S1 more than S2 ;) That's why I get so ticked when people say he gave his love away, he NEVER had any intentions of doing that.

As to his not having to go to the Norn to save Bo that is not correct. Even Bo admitted afterwards she would have lost the fight if he hadn't given her his wolf. Aife also admits that the wolf is what made Bo strong enough to beat her. So if he hadn't done what he did Bo would have either been enslaved by her mother or killed by her.
ernestine henry
164. Char
SuzyM: I need to buy the DVDs.

Just the more reason to love Dyson. He gave his wolf/love away to save the woman he loves.
ernestine henry
165. LostgirlFan
@SuzyM and Char I gotta hand it to you guys you have definately
made me more sympathetic towards Dyson. Alot of what you guys
have said is right on the money now that I think about it. I guess I
will be rooting more for a Bo, Dyson, and Tamsin love triangle
from now on. Of course I would love for it to just be Bo and Tamsin,
but no one knows just yet how the Bo and Tamsin relationship is
going to play out. That is why I can't wait to season 4 to begin. We
will finally see how the connection between those two will play out.
I suppose if they are not destined to be anything more than just
friends, then yeah I suppose I'd like for it to just be Dyson and Bo
once again. Congradulations you both have made very compelling
arguments :). I suppose in the end I just could never get behind
Doccubus. I just think that Dyson and Bo are more of a two of a
kind sort of thing. If Lauren comes back and assumes her regular
role then she'll always just be the one in the lab that everyone will
go to for information but nothing else really. Everyone else including
Tamsin is out fighting, getting in danger, and keeping Bo safe. Poor
Lauren is relagated to the Lab. Even if Lauren is given her freedom
it's not exactly like she be able to do for Bo what everone else does
for Bo. At least Kenzi the human is street wise, resourseful, and
unafraid to be Bo's backup. I actually now that I think about it am
really feeling sorry for Lauren . At least Trick is the blood King
and Fae. I think what I would also like to say is that if Dyson hadn't
been tricked by the Norn then he and Bo might still be together.
Having said that I still think that Bo would have been getting a little
something on the side from Lauren. Bo just never could pick between
the two of them She wants them both. I think in the end either Dyson or Lauren would have eventually made the hard decision for her. That is where I question Bo maturity. Someone mentioned that if Bo wanted to be in an adult relationship, then Bo needs to grow up and act like an adult and I agree. Being an adult means making hard decisions.

@SuzyM as far as the Tamsin the bounty hunter goes well its all just
kinda confusing to me. I for one think that Tamsin should have known
from the start who her Mark was. Why is the Wanderer having to rain
the wanderer tarot card down from the sky to let Tamsin know that
Bo is the one she's after? Shouldn't Tamsin have known who it was
she was after? It's all just pretty weird to me but I guess it really does
not matter now.

@TheGardner I agree with you that isn't exactly all that strong in
the romantic relationship department she has some growing up
to do.
ernestine henry
166. Monyo
Bo and Lauren need to be done forever. Lauren was selfish and she has a shorter life span and just would never be able to give Bo the energy she needed. I do think Lauren needs to stay in the group for her amazing medical skills but that the relationship just needs to go. It was just getting annoying for me. If you can't already tell I am a team Dyson fan. They are like soul mates. The only reason they weren't together was because of his selfless act of losing his love for her. I think she should of worked a little harder to get it back. I about died laughing when they were infected by the parasite and dancing and singing to Duran Durans hungry like the wolf. Dyson was such a sweetheart to not try to break bolo up. He is willing to wait and I hope like hell they find their way back together. I liked the visions in the dawning, cute husband and wife. I don't know what the big deal about Tamsin being a main cast is. I did like her and she did make it more interesting, very badass. Tamsin and Bo make a good fighting team but I just don't want them together. I'm curious if Bo's dad is going to teach Bo new powers and try to make her and him take over the world. It has been hinted a few times. I hated when Bo's mom was always beating around the bush, just spill the beans already. I'm happy for Trick and his new love life, but don't think it was the best time to leave. New bar renovations maybe. Kenzi and Hale just need to become a couple already. It has been lingering there for 3 seasons. I didn't like Hale's lack of prescense in season 3. I do feel like the last 2 episodes were kind of rushed. I wish it could go back to a 22ish episodes season. I love Bruce. He is fantastic and I hope he is seen as a reoccuring. I also love Vex. I'm glad he got his powers back. It is fun to watch him toy with The Morrigan. I'm also interested in this Massimo. It was good for Kenzi and Bo to have friend time while Bo was single. Wardrobes do need some updates. I would like to see Bo in sexier clothes to fit her succubus nature and with a tad more color. I don't want them to get a new home either but a little rennovating wouldn't kill. I hope season 4 unravels a little quicker to fix any pot holes and learn more about the characters. I think that's it, but I love this show even though I discovered it last week I am all caught up . Dedication of 4 days of mobile tv. Glad it won't be too long before it comes back on.
ernestine henry
167. TheGardner
Here's the thing about Dyson's "sacrifice" that seems to be ignored; it was born out of guilt. Dyson had spent the entire time he had known Bo lying to her about knowing her mother. When he finally came clean about it she wouldn't allow him to fight by her side because she didn't want people on her team that she didn't trust, i. e. Dyson. He went to see the Norn to sacrifice his wolf because he felt "guilty". If he had been honest from the start the need for such grand gestures would have been moot.

@Char- I cannot agree that Dyson and Bo had a healthy relationship. Dyson had been lying to Bo from the beginning, that is the opposite of healthy. He had his reasons, but instead of staying in the background, he persued a relationship with her. There has been a lot of talk about how Bo's relationship with Lauren was unhealthy because of all the lying so how is that any different then with Dyson? Lying is lying, they are two sides of the same coin, but since he is Dyson, I guess he get's a pass.

@Suzy- But you see that is my point, if Lauren had actually called for a cleansing then there would be no reason for her to seek out Trick's help. I can understand risking all for love, but Dyson swore an oath, when he ignores it for selfish reasons, he looses me.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
168. Kiersten
Hi Monyo! Welcome! I *totally* get the 4 day whole series glom. Once you go Fae...
Suzanne Metaxas
169. SuzyM
@TheGardner Dyson's sacrifice had nothing to do with guilt. He knew that Bo didn't have enough to beat Aife on her own and was willing to sacrifice his wolf to make sure she would win. Bo was being a bitch when she told him she didn't trust him. She was trying to hurt him to punish him for not telling her about her mother. Bo also didn't tell Dyson about Saskia (Aife) if she had Dyson would have been prepared for Aife. As to Dyson swearing an oath, what oath are you referring to? As to selfish reasons, it was not for himself it was for Bo.
Katherine Bloom
170. lsbloom
First in Arachnofaebia, Lauren called for the cleansing the same way she called it off. She had the power to stop it. She wasn't interested in doing that until the threat was removed, even though that meant killing Bo, Kenzi, and Hale; and not killing the spider.

Second, Dyson didn't pursue the relationship with Bo, she pursued it with him. Despite him pushing her away and trying to keep her at arm's length. When they actually formally started a relationship, he laid down the ultimatium with Trick. It wasn't his secret. In the beginning though, he had prior loyalties and friendships and he didn't fully trust Bo--instinctually trust her, yes--but he didn't decide that he "knew" her and could rely on her, and could count on whose side she would come down on until Faetal Justice.

Third, while Dyson may have been jealous of Lauren in season 1, 2 and even 3. The acting out about it wasn't born out of jealousy or territorialness in owning Bo romantically, it was born out of protecting Bo and not trusting Lauren (which he was dead right on). He didn't trust Lauren in Arachnofaebia, but he let her take credit for "saving" them, even though they wouldn't have needed it if she hadn't ordered that they be burned alive and ignored her patients earlier in the day. He walked away from Bo. Bo trusted him to save her butt and heal her, but not enough to listen when he said Lauren's divided loyalities could get her in trouble. And for Dyson that wasn't enough. He pulled back, he said no (well it didn't stick, but he said it). "last time," "last favor," he wasn't marking territory he was walking away. That's not jealous behavoir. And after that he's never not been nice to Lauren, even though she's been a jerk to him a lot.
Marie Sullivan
171. Minime
If anyone is at the con I'd love a wrap up about the panel. Also I must say I am not looking forward to season 4 if tweets like this are true
Anna Silk-Many of you asked about S4---my answer?? Take everything you know about #lostgirl and turn it upside down;)
To me that reads huge retcon and painting itself out of a corner. I hate how much I adore this show and that it will never be as good as it could be if the writers had balls to tell a real story.
ernestine henry
172. TheGardner
And yet still nobody has answered my question; why would Lauren go to Trick for help with defeating the spider if she had already ordered the cleansing? There is only one logical answer; Lauren sounded the alarm, reported on the situation and the Ash or someone else of similar authority, ordered the cleansing. Lauren would have been well aware of the consequences of such an action therefor there is no reason for her to be with Trick calmly leaning on the bar looking through books, still trying to find a solution, when Dyson storms in.

@Suzy- I was referring to the oath he swore when he became a police officer. Selfish reasons or personal reasons, he still chose to ignore his sworn duty and put the needs of one above the needs of others. How was Bo being a bitch by saying she didn't want him by her side because she couldn't trust him? His reasons don't forgive the betrayal and personally I don't blame her.

@lsbloom- I don't recall Bo ever forcing herself on Dyson. He had the power to walk away at any time. He chose to include himself in her life and just because he decided to come clean after they formally started their relation doesn't excuse his previous behavior.
Marie Sullivan
173. Minime
why would Lauren go to Trick for help with defeating the spider if she had already ordered the cleansing? There is only one logical answer; Lauren sounded the alarm, reported on the situation and the Ash or someone else of similar authority, ordered the cleansing. Lauren would
have been well aware of the consequences of such an action therefor there is no reason for her to be with Trick calmly leaning on the bar looking through books, still trying to find a solution, when Dyson storms in.
That part is open to interpretation, if you follow the timeline this is what happened:

The alert is sounded once the web is identified

Dyson tells Lauren that Bo is affected

Lauren tells the strike team to go to Bo's

Dyson shows up at Bo's and the fire fae is ready to burn down the HH and the building has been closed off so no one can get out she says she was told to burn it all down with everyone inside. Dyson buy's time from the fire fae whom he knows to solve the problem.

Dyson goes to Trick's and he and Lauren are leisurely reading about the history of the spider and how in the past one single spider killed 600 people.

Dyson yells at Lauren for calling in the hit and wants to know how to kill it and says he bought a few hours time before they are burnt alive.

A viewer can see in two ways
1. Lauren rushes to Tricks and feverishly looks for a way to kill it and save Bo, Kenzi & Hale

2. At that point Lauren thinks that the HH has been burnt down and she goes to Trick to make sure the fire will kill the spider so no other outbreaks occur and she and Trick are leisurely paging through books looking at the history of outbreaks and trying to confirm the fire will kill it.
ernestine henry
174. Char
We should all meet up for San Diego Comic Con next year!

@Minime-My boss is at the Comin Con right now and I so envy him.

And I agree that in That episode, a viewer can see it in 2 lights- Lauren saving or killing Bo.

Maybe LostGirl needs to be turned upside down but LostGirl always says that and it never quite turns out that way. So I'm expecting Bo to meet her dad, Tamsin and Dyson unknown, Kenzi and Bruce with the Druid, Trick with Stella, Hale in 2 episodes, and Lauren in her new mansion.

What I would like to see is an episode where every question that is asked must be truthful. Yes, I got that from Dr Who. But I really believe that if everyone is honest in an episode then we the viewers will know what is truth or not. Especially from Trick. He is worse in communicating than Lauren. I get that being older, you will see alot of things but can't you tell some secrets.
Katherine Bloom
175. lsbloom
Gardener--I didn't say Bo forced herself on Dyson, I said she persued him.

If Lauren didn't order the cleansing, when Dyson called her on it, why didn't she say she didn't "call in the Ash's hit squad"? Why instead defend her use of any means necessary to destroy the spider because she felt that it presented a clear threat to the fae? Following through by going to Trick to find out more information didn't change her putting Bo in danger. And it didn't change the fact that Dyson, Lauren and Hale were the only ones who knew Bo was infected. Since Dyson didn't send the hit squad there, Lauren did. Lauren told them where to go. She sent a hit squard after Bo.

She had the power to stop it, she didn't until the spider was destroyed. Not when she got called on Bo being in danger. Only when the spider was destroyed. Fire might have only been a backup plan to try and stop the spider, it might have been her first choice. But nowhere in the spectrum of decision-making was putting Bo first.
ernestine henry
176. TheGardner
One could reasonably assume that having just given the order to have Bo roasted alive, Lauren would be upset. Or if not then shouldn't Trick, being Bo's grandfather after all, at least have an emotion or two about it, instead of casually flipping through books and exchanging information?

@lsbloom- You are correct, Bo persued Dyson, but she never forced him into anything, that was Dyson's choice. Dyson chose to have a relationship knowing that he would have to continue lying to her. When he finally came clean she cast him out and rightfully so.
Suzanne Metaxas
177. SuzyM
@Gardner Bo was being bitchy and admitted in S2-1 that she had been and that she was very sorry for being so. Sher greatly regretted her stubbornness but it was too late. She always trusts Dyson and says maybe that is her curse.

Bo pursued Dyson telling him she was hungry or hurt every chance she got with the plan of making him love her. Well she succeeded :)
Katherine Bloom
178. lsbloom
Gardener--Yes, you would think that ordering the death of someone you cared about would be a blow; therefore, I think that demonstrably shows that she didn't care for Bo.

And having sex with someone doesn't really seem like the actions of someone who "cast someone out." She had a fight with him, but by the end of the day she was over it. She didn't want him in the fight with her mother because she was lashing out, but remember she also didn't want Kenzi in that fight.
Marie Sullivan
179. Minime
They kept ALMOST spoiling season 4, but apparently, fae only inherit their powers (or non-powers) through one parent. Bo may be special. The producers realized their error and shushed themselves.
Part of a comic con recap and I have to call BS. They are setting new rules for how you become fae. I can list several fae that have powers from both parents Kiara & the Glave are just two examples. Looks like they may be backtracking on the human + fae = human and blood sage + succubus = Aiofe who has both powers and creating a sort of Harry Potteresque "squib" type of fae who are powerless fae and also trying really hard to retcon fae genetics.
Marie Sullivan
182. Minime
I am going to guess that Bo's father will not be fae but something like the Garuda & Naga perhaps a Wind Horse (had to do with the human soul and is often shown with the Garuda) or a god like Odin but not fae. They need to make up some new rules to make it work. Also ZP said they have a gag on Doccutopia and Tamsin to keep the fans guessing and some pics of ZP & Anna on set all dressed up lead me to believe that doccubus is back as a couple.
ernestine henry
183. TheGardner
@lsbloom- Bo screwed Dyson to heal and boost her strength. The fact that she was willing to fogive him at the end of the episode makes her seem kind of pathetic, and showcases her imaaturity when Dyson is concerned, but that's just my opinion. The man lied to her face for months, and she just rolls over and plays dead after being angry for five minutes, whatever, lame.

Does anyone else think they are setting Tamsin and Bo up to be sisters?
ernestine henry
184. TheGardner
@minime- I wouldn't be surprised if Doccubus is back on. Look at all of the press that relationship has gotten the show. Bo and Dyson, the old man and the young girl, it's been done so many times. I just hope we have more consistant characters and better writing.
Marie Sullivan
185. Minime
I agree that they will be half sisters and if the writing was good enough I would be fine with doccubus but I want a compelling overall story, no plot holes and for the retcon to stop.
Katherine Bloom
186. lsbloom
I don't think working through an issue you have with someone and being honest about your emotions is immature. She was mad. It wasn't his secret to tell. He apologized and took her to Trick, where she found out that there was a history she was previously unaware of. (Which was really all Dyson knew anyway, so keeping Trick's confidence wasn't that impactful on Bo. It's not like he knew where Aoife was or what she was doing or anything about her.) Bo finds out her mother is a psycho bitch and that maybe Trick and Dyson weren't so wrong in their assessment. She escapes. She's not mad at Dyson anymore. She has sex with him, yes for healing and a power up, but you don't go there without the underlying forgiveness. She said she wasn't mad anymore, but lashed out to hurt him back telling him she didn't trust him to have her back in the fight. He then makes the sacrifice play to protect her.

Everyone keeps yelling at Bo for being immature and calling her relationship with Dyson the same thing. They work through their issues. It may mean fighting or yelling, but they get the issues to the forefront and discuss them as honest equals. That's not immaturity to me. Breaking up with someone because you don't want to work on your problems, that's immaturity. Lying about fundamental differences bothering you is immature. But all the things that are being leveled at Bo for being "immature" and sucky and all that, are because people didn't like how she treated Lauren. Who claimed to be fine with it, and frankly should have been more patient with Bo going through a fundamental evolutionary test. Poor Lauren didn't get enough attention when Bo was trying to not turn into an underfae? Really?
Katherine Bloom
187. lsbloom
I'm going to go through the roof if they change so both parents don't have to be fae to have powers. Or that Bo is somehow unique for having powers from both her parents. The mythology in this show is infuriatingly badly done and inconsistent. I'm not sure I can take another rewrite of something clearly established to fit a dumb plot point.
Marie Sullivan
188. Minime
Who claimed to be fine with it, and frankly should have been more patient with Bo going through a fundamental evolutionary test. Poor Lauren didn't get enough attention when Bo was trying to not turn into an underfae? Really?
I agree with this 100%! Bo was happy with the relationship she was happy as a person and Lauren was not. Calling Bo immature for being happy and well adjusted is wrong when Lauren clearly has the issues that she has to work through including the death of Nadia. Lauren pushing Bo to commit and never vocalizing once her feelings and finally snapping is the real (and I admit forced storyline) immature person.
Marie Sullivan
189. Minime
Also ZP commented on a Bo & Lauren baby and said she thinks the writers could work out how they would make a child together with no male help. She said with the fae anything is possible so a Bo & Lauren baby could happen. The clip I saw from the panel looked like a lot of fun with ZP & KHR silliness.
ernestine henry
190. Char
Have they also figured out how Lauren is going to live forever too?

I just finished reading some reviews on Chraline Harris last book and people were threatening her life because the ending of the book was not what they wanted. I felt so horrible for her. She has a visions and this is how her vision ended. I respect her as an author and for ending Sookies books the way she chose to and not to be dictated by her fans.

I do not understand how, and why viewers should get what they want. I trust the writers of Lost Girl to have a story and tell the viewers. If viewers want Laurenn and Bo together, have babies and live forever, then these viewers should write a sript/story, knock on some network doors and get it produced.

I identify the most with Lauren. She is a human in her early 30's. she isa genius, pretty, and makes mistakes. Her character development seems muddled and lacks insight. And some may say the same for Dyson. BTW, to have a same sex relationship, where one is Fae and the other is human, to show the relationship will not work and then change the rules to make the relationship work is not fair. It is cheating.

SideNote: There are over 1 million people who watch Lost Girl.
ernestine henry
191. LostgirlFan
I am going to lose all respect for LG producers and writers if they make Bo and Tamsin sisters, because if they do that then it means to me that they were just pandering to the audience. You know let's give the audience some juicy girl on girl kissing scenes to get more people to watch. Let's see if we can create a Team Tamsin and then turn around and screw with everyone's head and turn Bo and Tamsin half sisters. If they pull that crap I may have to reconsider even watching the show. I don't really feel that you should do that to your audience. I also agree that you can't make up the rules as you go along. Since they have already established that Fae get their powers from only one parent then they need to stick with that. As far as Doccubus getting back together I think I'll take a wait and see attitude about that. I also think that Bo and Lauren having a child together is beyond stupid WTF? If they fear the alienation of the doccubus fans then lets just go ahead and end the series now. They never should have pandered to the audience to begin with. Have enough guts to stand your ground and have the story evolve how you want it.
Marie Sullivan
192. Minime
Since they have already established that Fae get their powers from only one parent then they need to stick with that.
Aiofe explains to Bo that at least one of her parents is a sex chi eater if not both and Trick explains the human + fae = human they also have established that fae get abilities from both parents just look at Aiofe, Bo, Ciara, the Glave and her daughter all had powers from both of the parents. Backtracking on that plus DL being able to science a fae with a bone marrow transplant whould be the end of the line for me. I agree with you Char they can't just make it up as you go along if they make a rule they have to stick with it. I do wish EA and Firestone would read On Fairy Stories and learn that they have to craft a world with rules that can't be changed.
ernestine henry
193. TheGardner
Were they being serious though about changing the mythologies or were they just teasing like they do about everything else? Why was there no meeting way back in the beginning when the show was greenlit that established everything from the get go? Changing things around at this point is stupid. Now if they wanted to clarify by saying something like that a fae gets their main power from one parent, but also gains some of the abilities of the other, then that would be fine. That would even make sense to a certain degree, i.e. the glaive and Aoife.

Tamsin and Bo as half sisters, eh in a way it would make sense as to why Tamsin struggled in following through with delivering her to the Wanderer, but I never felt a romantic connection between them anyway. IMO if anything the kiss they shared was awkward and stilted, then after, Tamsin looked repulsed.

@lsbloom- I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I stand by my original point, whether it was his secret to tell or not Dyson lied and yet still entered into a relationship with Bo. I think that Bo is an immature character and when paired with Dyson, who is also immature, they exacerbate those qualities in each other and we have us Lost Girl Twilight. Would the case be the same if they got together now? Bo has regressed and currently resembles her season 1 character and Dyson has had no growth or development since season 1, so I predict it would be the same teenage love it was then.

I believe that Lauren needed counseling after Nadia and when Bo went all possessed in 3x05, it trigged some pretty severe PTSD; which could have made for a much better story then her being miffed at being blown off for a party, but whatever. I felt like Bo was in a much better place at the beginning of the season; she made the commitment to be with Lauren, and then it was like she rebelled against it later, another facet of her childish, "oh I won't choose a side or have to answer to anyone", ugh. We don't know how much time passed between season 2 & 3 so we don't know how long Bo and Lauren had been playing house before she started pushing for a commitment. Lauren is a hyper rational character, so it is possible she rationalized herself into believing she had moved on from Nadia. The woman clearly has issues, and their relationship had a lot of problems, but I wouldn't necessarily consider her actions immature. She had her moments sure, but the child in the relationship was clearly Bo.
ernestine henry
194. Char
TheGardner:

i guess we will have to wait for Season 4. But is not fair that they are changing the rules for Lauren. I hope not. Cause it is not right.

Tamsin and Bo are not related. I don't get that vibe from them.

How has Dyson not grown as a character? How is he the same person in Season 1 and 3? How has Bo been immature? if Dyson was Lauren's character and Lauren was Dyson's character, would you still like Lauren?

Twilight love was love between a vampire and a human, similar to Bo and Lauren. Bella had no identity other than being Edwards girlfriend. Similar to Lauren. Her only identity was being Bo's girlfriend and giving her injections.

How was Bo in a better place? Because she was dating Laren. And she is not in a better place because she is not with Lauren. I guess then Lauren lies are less evil than Dyson. This is not Lauren's or Dyson's story. This is all about Bo and finding herself.
ernestine henry
195. TheGardner
@Char- When I made the comparison to Twighlight I was not in fact comparing characters directly. I was refrencing a well know epic teenage love story. In effect that comment can be taken as: "we have us Lost Girl "

I can't really say if I would feel the same if Dyson and Lauren were reversed. In general I find Dyson to be a very boring character, but how much of that is the role itself and how much is the actor? I haven't seen KHR in anything else so it is hard for me to judge because I don't know what he could bring to the role of "Lauren". The same could be said for ZP as the only other thing I have seen her in is one episode of Call Me Fitz.

Bo at the end of season 2 rose to the challenge and became a leader. She seemed like a stronger more intune character. It felt like after 2 seasons of being lost she had found her family and was embracing her power. Bo's whole shtick is about not making decisions, so for her to make a commitment to Lauren felt like a huge step. When I say that she is an immature charcter a lot of that is derived from her "me, me, me" attitude and the way she acts like a brat when she doesn't get her way.

I don't feel Dyson has had any real development or story line as a character since season 1. Everything for him has revolved around his "love" drama and the pain of loving Bo as she loves someone else. He is 1500 years old and still acts like a child, especially with Bo. He acts territorial and jealous, yet can't even man up to tell her when his love is restored.

On to Lauren, my comment was focused on Bo/Dyson and Bo/Lauren during the time when each were in their respective relationships. Once Bo and Lauren were a couple, she wasn't the one lying that was Bo. Now during Seasons 1 & 2 when they were not together she lied as well, i.e. the infamous "spy bang" and keeping Nadia a secret, then she further lied to Nadia about her relationship with Bo and the fae. I don't know if one is worse than the other or if there is even any point in comparing, it was shit behavior on both of their parts. The only difference I can see is that Lauren appears to have stopped and Dyson has continued to do so.
Marie Sullivan
196. Minime
@TheGardner I guess we will see if they were serious about changing fae genetics and making it that one got powers or non powers from one parent and not both with the exception of Bo who has both of her parents powers. I read on twitter that EA hadn't had any sleep and was punchy so she could have misspoke.

As for the baby talk ZP loves to joke with her fans so I am sure the baby talk was a joke as was her comment that Bo & Lauren will share at least one sex scene in season4. They seem to hold the cards so close I don't see ZP hinting at something so big as being serious. ZP has a great sense of humor so I take what she says as a bit of stick.

I have been getting the quotes from short tumbler videos and a few transcripts so I hope to find a full video in a few days with there entire panel. They also showed a season 4 tester but I have not been able to find it online yet. I am sure Lauren will have a big part in season 4 because they went through the trouble of having AS do a recorded message to the fans from Lauren's apartment and not the HH. I am perplexed by the Tamsin blackout with no RS tweets but then again they did the same with ZP and we are now only getting peeks that Lauren is still around because of the video in her apartment and the pic of her on set in a LBD with test tubes in hand.
Everything for him has revolved around his "love" drama and the pain of loving Bo as she loves someone else.
No one has had real growth because this is not an ensemble piece it's about Bo and those she loves and how they exist in her world. Lauren has had no more growth then Dyson. Also rewatch 3x01 and you will see Lauren pushes Bo to commit in the end Bo essentially says OK you win lets do this with a lot of arm twisting from Lauren. Bo still has not come into her own she is about to gain an entire new set of powers her life is unstable and she overall shouldn't be in any relationship till she learns who she really is. Lauren & Dyson are equally grown and have come into their own but Bo even vocalizes in 3.11 that she never realized that she will love for hundreds of years. She has so much more growth ahead so I just can't fault her for being a teen because that is what she is in comparison to DL & Dyson.


As for the time frame in 3x01 Hale and Kenzi give enough clues and I think EA said in an interview that it picks up a few weeks later so Nadia had been dead for perhaps a two months. I felt that The Bo & Lauren relationship was handled wrong from the start with Bo being wrangled into a relationship and Lauren never grieving for Nadia. Plus they had bigger issue fish to fry then the trust and feeding issues. Like Bo killing Nadia, Bo's feeding and lifespan plus her lifestyle and future. I chalked up Dyson not telling Bo to still grieving for Ciara and realizing how he hurt everyone he loved including Hale because the Norn took all his ability to love even friends so him not telling Bo was understandable after it hitting him that he got Ciara killed by being a dumbass and banged Hales sister.

Anyhow I am sure we will see the full panel in the next few days. THeGardner you can chewck out ZP & KHR in the untitled works of paul shepard (they play a former couple) and KHR is in season 1 of the Tudors on nexflix.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
197. Kiersten
@Minime Could you post the link to any pics etc? Ive heard of there being 1 or 2 of DL but havent seen any. also, what is "LBD"?

If DL is back in her apt & working in Fae lab again, then it sounds like show *is* going to advance the total fiction that DL was "helping" or worse "saving" Dyson et al in the S3 finale. Shame. Just proves the utter bias for doccubus will continue regardless of how much a failure that relationship is and continues to be or how it drags down an otherwise great (on most days) show.
Linda Losik
198. LindaL
After all of the so-called hints and great promises of last season, I am thinking that the story of Bo and Lauren having a child is the same misdirection type primrose path we were sent down last time. Even the writers and producers of Lost Girl cannot be so stupid as to alienate over half of their views, vocal or otherwise. EA has stated repeated that the triangle is here to stay.

My problem with Lauren is not only was she not given enough time to mourn Nadia, is that she did her best to keep Bo “normal” by suppressing Bo’s fae abilities. Bo still does want the house with the white picket fence which Lauren represents. We all know how hard it is to let dreams go; some people never do. IMHO, this was a mismatch from the get-go. Bo wanting to be human and not accepting of her faeness really has to go.

As to Bo and Tasmin being half-sisters, it would not only make sense mythologically but it would explain as to why Tasmin had that “ugly” look on her face before she let Bo feed off of her and after the kiss in the camp. Tasmin may or may not have known who Bo’s parents were when they meet but as we now know; she does now, which will increase her loyalty to the team. Blood does tend to do that.
Marie Sullivan
199. Minime
Kiersten LBD = Little Black Dress. I keep getting flagged for spam everytime I try to attach a url from tumblr. With all the tidbits I was posting I was adding a link but I kept getting a flagged message.
Marie Sullivan
202. Minime
for cute behind the scenes stuff of KHR, ZP and KS from comic con go to lauren-zoie.tumblr dot com
Marie Sullivan
205. Minime
Sorry I keep getting a spam message with tumblr to see Lauren all dressed up and on set doccubus dot com /forum/index.php?topic=687.45
Marie Sullivan
207. Minime
Ok after this one I give up here is a fun video of KHR & ZP being silly go to youtubeDOTCOM/watch?v=9XGvdaFvI14

I have a few more links but I am sure the full panel will show up on youtube soon
Kiersten Hallie Krum
208. Kiersten
I've seen most if not all of the vids & pics IRT but really appreciate attempt to post links. Think I'll wait until ZP's pic shows up on a more accessible site tho.
ernestine henry
209. Char
@LindaL- I see Tamsin as Bo's Guardian Valkyrie Angel of Death. Bo and her dad are going to bridle the masses. :) So awesome. I hope we see Bo's dad kill everyone and then bring them back. That woukd be legendary!

I see Bo as a comic book hero such as Superman. They were both raised by human parents but while Superman had parental support with his powers, Bo had no one and so she was stilted in growth as a human and as a fae. So now, she needs to grow as a Fae and accept that she is Fae. She still needs to inquire about her resurrection power and be ok with it too. Bo has a good heart and I know that she has best intentions.

Lauren has had no time to mourn Nadia's death. But she chose to go into the relationship and now she knows that Bo is not what she is looking for but she is still attracted to her and I think will be for a very long time. When Dyson told Lauren to leave in season 2, I do believe Dyson knew what Lauren was going through in regards to the deaths of Nadia and Ciara. He knew this woukd be the best chance for Lauren to leave The Fae after the death of the Garuda. But she lost her chance and I see Lauren with the Fae forever and ever.

Season 3, Dyson was trying to find the person hunting the Fae. He also had to work with a new partner who was gunning for Bo. It was not only about him getting his love back.

The love triangle is boring. But at least in Twilight Bella choose someone. In Lost Girl, the triangle will continue and end game will be Lauren and Bo until Lauren's death and then it will be Bo and Dyson.
ernestine henry
210. LostgirlFan
@Thegardner as far as Tamsin looking repulsed at kissing Bo the only
thing that looks like that to me is episode 6. Bo kisses Tamsin and she
pulls away from Bo with a WTF look on her face. I don't think that it
was a repulsed look. The look she gave Bo was an irritated one cuz
Bo went a bit over board in sucking her Chi. In episode 3 Tamsin was
way to eager to kiss Bo for a second time after Bo suggested it. In episode 8 in the Brazenwood kissing scene I didn't see a look of
disgust from Tamsin. Although I am not sure what kind of feelings
were going through her head after that kiss? I do agree that all three
kisses were contrived. It would have been alot better for us Valkubus
fans, if Bo or Tamsin had just kissed each other without any sort of thing compelling it to happen, but oh well that's not how it happened.
As far as romantic feelings I don't know I think that Bathtub scene
was pretty telling about how Tamsin feels about Bo. I don't know if it
was a profession of love but there is no reason why those feeling she
has for Bo could not turn into love for Bo. Maybe they are feelings of
admiration of Bo who knows? Tamsin is Bisexual so those feelings can
quickly turn into romantic feelings if they aren't already. I never for one second ever got some sort of sisterly vibe from either on of them.
Go back and watch at the very end when the two of them are in that
Lab in the compound. That look between them is pretty unmistakeable.
It pretty much screamed attraction. I mean after all they both are Bisexual. That is why I am gonna totally hurl if they turn them into
sisters. All that ground work that they seemed to be laying was all for
nothing? Just thinking about that is really just irritating to be honest.

@Minime that is a good point that Bo did not realize that she'll have hundreds of years to love people not a lifetime that just spans maybe 60 to 70 years. Thanks for telling us where to find those pics :)

@LindaL no I don't believe that Tamsin knew who Bo's parents were
till episode 13 so if that is the case then how could she know that she's
Bo's half sister without even knowing who Bo's parents were? These looks that everyone keeps talking about could just be the fact that
Tamsin really didn't like bo, until she started spending time with her
and got to know her. Anyways the whole matter is kinda wearing me
out. I just think from now on I am going to take a wait and see attitude
as to what kind of relationship those two are headed for in season 4.
Marie Sullivan
211. Minime
They are keeping a tight lid on season 4. ZP said that they have a gag order for Tamsin and Lauren. No tweeting/bts spoilers for both characters so I think we will all have to wait and see. Perhaps we will get a surprise Lauren and Tamsin romance ;)
Linda Losik
212. LindaL
@Minime: That would be AWESOME! And somewhat mind blowing for a certain group of deserving people, not that I am being silly or petty, mind you…just have always felt that turn-about is fair play!
Marie Sullivan
213. Minime
Linda it could totally work and make for an English Patient style storyline, Lauren the sexy doctor is treating Tamsin the dying patient and they fall in love. Not only is it taboo because Tamsin is dark, Tamsin is dying, and Lauren is also a light fae slave and they rebel against the odds for a real Romeo & Juliette type romance.
ernestine henry
214. Char
@Minime- that was mind blowing. Lauren and Tamsin together. Say what, and I never thought of it before. That came out of left field but I like it. But they won't do it or will they??
Marie Sullivan
215. Minime
Sadly no, they would never have the guts to do a Tamsin/Lauren pairing it would end the triangle and they are keeping the triangle. :(
ernestine henry
216. LostgirlFan
OMG you guys no no no Lauren and Tamsin yuck! Besides if all goes
the way I hope Tamsin and Lauren will be fighting over Bo. I don't know where dyson comes in to play but no DocValk? or should it be called LoTam? I see DocCop but I think they were referring to Dyson and Lauren not Tamsin and Lauren? I can just see a major cat fight break out between Lauren and Tamsin over Bo. Now that is a fight I'd pay to see.
ernestine henry
217. LostgirlFan
OMG you guys no no no Lauren and Tamsin yuck! Besides if all goes
the way I hope Tamsin and Lauren will be fighting over Bo. I don't know where dyson comes in to play but no DocValk? or should it be called LoTam? I see DocCop but I think they were referring to Dyson and Lauren not Tamsin and Lauren? I can just see a major cat fight break out between Lauren and Tamsin over Bo. Now that is a fight I'd pay to see.
ernestine henry
218. TheGardner
Ugh! Why are they keeping the triangle, it is soooooo tired and it makes all three of them look like jackasses! It had it's place in season 1, let it f****** go already!

I am sure ZP was kidding about a doccubus baby, that kind of thing belongs in fanfiction, not on screen.

Not to be shallow but Lauren and Tamsin, wow that's a lot of blonde. I know that they have a following as a couple. They have had one, maybe two scenes together so who knows if they even have any chemistry, but I doubt it can touch what ZP and AS have together.

@LostGirlFan- Chemistry is subjective and I really just didn't feel it between those two and their kisses felt like it was a case of pretty + pretty = hot, um only not.
ernestine henry
219. TheGardner
Am I the only one that liked Dyson and Tamsin together? I thought they played off each other really well. The way they teased each other and their snarky banter actually made Dyson almost likeable. I am not a huge fan of partners hooking-up, but those two made a lot of sense. It also got Dyson released from the "Bo anchor" that drags him down.
ernestine henry
220. LostgirlFan
I don't know my freaking head hurts from even thinking about getting
into another one of these discussions really. I see something there and
you don't. That is perfectly fine :) we'll agree to disagree. All I know is
season 4 is going to confirm alot of our theories about Bo and Tamsin,
and I frankly can't wait to get it over with. Are they or aren't they half
sisters? Are they or aren't they going to start up a romantic relationship
with one another? Grrrrrr come on season 4 hurry up and get here already!!!!!!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
221. Kiersten
For the record, the kiss between Tamsin and Bo in Brazenwood had absolutely, 100% nothing to do with Tamsin and Bo. That was all Trick and Stella and their combined hands touching the Magic Box (not like that!) while they kissed in The Dal transferred their emotions to Tamsin and Bo who then spontaneously kissed. The moment Stella and Trick stopped touching the Magic Box (stop it), Tamsin came back to herself and immediately jerked away from Bo with a disgusted look on her face. Every time Tamsin and Bo have kissed, it has been either related to a power feed or, in the case of Brazenwood, as a supernatural surrogate for another couple's feelings. From the start, Tamsin has always displayed disgusted at the idea of kissing Bo and has given in for power boosts, as in The Kenzi Factor and the S3 finale. She absolutely gets off on the power, no question, but has repeatedly displayed/admitted that she is not a fan of kissing Bo. This is what, more than anything, makes me think they could be fillial relationship there.

As for the bathroom scene, I think that was a broken, drunk woman overwhelmed by feelings for Bo and the conflict of those feelings with what she had to do for The Wanderer. I'm not sure they were sexual feelings, though the execution was creepily in that manner, but Tamsin seemed more interested in Bo's heart than her naked breasts, they just both happen to be in the same place. Certainly there is epic tons of chemistry between them that has been glaringly lacking in any and all of Bo and DL's interactions, sexual and otherwise, but that spark doesn't automatically mean sex. I think their relationship is dramatically more interesting without the sexual aspect b/c Bo needs someone (besides Kenzi and Hale and Trick) with whom she has a complicated relationship that does not involved sex. Sexual love is only one kind of love (and often the least powerful and lasting, as evidenced again by the epic toxic failure that is Bo and DL's relationship) and I think LG needs to explore those others sides of a succubus' love in order to keep the show layered, interesting, and evolving beyond "Who will Bo bang next?" pendantry.
Suzanne Metaxas
222. SuzyM
Dyson and Tamsin can not hook up. They can only sleep together once a year on La Shoshain or face execution. I sort of think neither of them could go without sex with how there characters both have been shown to enjoy sex. I think they can be really good friends and bar buddies but lovers no.

If Bo declares for the light then she can't sleep with Ryan or Tamsin either.

I really hope the Jay Firestone & Emily Andras make a compilation of all the Fae Lore they have introduced into the show and make writers read it before they write episodes. That is the only way we will ever get continuity.
ernestine henry
223. Char
@TheGardner-I see no chemistry with any Dyson and any other woman on Lost Girl Except for Bo.

@LostgirlFan-yes there will be no Lauren and Tamsin. This triangle is too complicated as is. But it would have been interesting. However Lauren needs to be with no one but herself and then find a human for a loving relationship.

The only people who know Bo's dad is Tamsin, Aiofe, and possibly Trick. I think he is the greek God Dionysus because Dionysus was called the Wandere. Yes, I know, Valkyrie is Norse mythology.
Marie Sullivan
224. Minime
@Char Dyson knows also because Tamsin told him in the car just before the crash that Bo's fater is the Wanderer.
ernestine henry
225. LostgirlFan
@Kiersten I totally agree and did state in my posts that the kissing scenes were contrived. I will though disagree that the only time I ever saw a look of disgust on Tamsin's face as far as kissing Bo was in episode 6. I think however that she was reluctant to kiss Bo for the simple fact that Tamsin at the time was still experiencing animosity towards Bo for what ever reason. I don't believe they are half sisters because Tamsin didn't even know who Bo's father was till episode 13.
In order to know if you are related to someone you have to know that
person's parents, so I am hoping that will put to rest the thought that
Tamsin and Bo are half sisters and that is the reason for the disgust.
I also have to bring up the fact that not all their kissing scenes involved
a power boost or due to some machine. The spin the bottle kiss in episode 3 didn't involve any transferrance of power, and Tamsin was
all to willing to do some smooching with Bo. I do agree that Tamsin
didn't get into the bathtub to put the moves on Bo. I think she did it to
make Bo aware that Tamsin has changed her mind about Bo. I do think that it's very good possibility that Tamsin doesn't have any romantic feelings towards Bo. I just think that the possibility is still there that she could develope those kinds of feelings. If you read Tamsin's Bio that the writers created for her it clearly spells out that Tamsin is Bisexual. I think it's possible that it was the producers and writers way of saying that a romantic relationship is possible. That doesn't mean
that it will but the possiblity is there.

@SuzyM I totally forgot about the Dark and light not being about to have sex with one another. I think its a safe bet that Bo will never pick
a side why should she? She can be with whomever she wants and she
can move in light and dark territory by remaining nuetral.
Nadine Robb
226. cmm
@Lostgirlfan With regards to light and dark not being able to sleep together. They can't with one exception Fae Day. Fae Day either side is allowed to do whatever with each other.
ernestine henry
227. Char
Hey Everyone, i saw this site and it shows Lost Girl ComicCon 2013. They are adorable. I dont know how to imbed the link but if anyone knows how, feel free to repost.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2013/07/lost-girl-comic-con-panel.html?m=1
ernestine henry
228. Char
Team Dyson fans represented. But All of them are amazing.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
229. Kiersten
@Char Thanks for the link. Kris was in rare form in this panel. Hilarious. No sleep=no filter for him, not that he tends to have one in the first place. I love how connected they all are, bonded and tight. So great when the cast you love proves to be worthy of it.
ernestine henry
230. Char
@Kiersten I know. It was pretty funny to hear Kris. I agree the bond they have is sweet.
Marie Sullivan
231. Minime
Thanks Char! Love how fun they all are and how well they play off each other. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/07/23/anna-silk-baby-lost-girl-photos_n_3641610.html#slide=2734931 Anna Silk gave an interview to the Huffington Post CA abut season 4 and showed off Sam.
What tidbits can you give us, in lieu of your SDCC visit, about the upcoming Season 4? What’s in store for Bo? For Season 4, Bo has a lot of pieces to put together -- about her abduction, her past, her friends and lovers. At the end of Season 3, the gang was pretty ripped apart, and Bo comes home to a slightly different world, especially with the unrest that's been building up in the world of the Fae.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
232. Kiersten
I'm gonna take that the show is going to continue that plot line of the Fae unrest as a good sign. Hopefully, it will include not only the Light vs Dark issue but the Fae vs human conflict that was set up too.
Marie Sullivan
233. Minime
I agree, the quote makes me hopeful about a return to the darkness of season 1 and a light vs dark and human vs fae conflict. What peaked my interest was the "about her abduction" line and a possible shift from Lueann rescuing Bo in season 1 to Aiofe kidnapping her in season 3. My interest is more then peaked at that idea. Will this make her father more sympathetic and Aiofe less? This sound like a promising storyline to me.

Also I did notice that they did the shoot onset, in Lauren's apartment. I am curious what sets they cut in season 4. We all noticed that they cut Lauren's lab in season 3 and the Ash's throne room and expanded Lauren's apartment, Dyson's apartment, and expanded the Dahl so I wonder if they cut the HH and the Dahl in season 4 for newer sets.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
234. Kiersten
Pics leaked of Bo and Kenzi at The Dal, so I think it's safe to say that core set remains intact. Obviously it got blowed up in the finale, but what's a little dry wall to the Fae? Ditto HH. We got Siren's Speakeasy as a new set in S3 (which I loved) but I wonder if they'll cut that for S4. I love the idea someone suggested that perhaps Tamsin moved into DL's apartment, but think it unlikely however entertaining as Anna called it Lauren's apartment in her video. Unfortunately, that practically guarantees they'll be walking back DL's betrayals in the finale but that's hardly a surprise.

The abduction line was an interesting giveaway. I think, given Anna's delayed return to set, that she'll be absent the first and maybe second episodes which we already know are Kenzi, Hale and Dyson heavy and then when Bo returns (is rescued?) to Faeville, she has to catch up with what they've been dealing with in her absence. Have to admit that my hope is rising though yet tinged with the bitterness of oft disappointing fallout. ;)
Marie Sullivan
235. Minime
Kiersten, I totally forgot about her being smokenapped. So she was abducted twice, once at birth by Aiofe and in the Dahl by Dad. I thought that "her abduction, her past" would mean a revisit to baby Bo and/or her 10 year killing spree beyond what the touched on in season 1 and Raging Fae.

I agree that I feel excitement at the possibilities the writers could draw from but it's tinged with much disappointment and unfulfilled possibilities of seasons past.

I think we will see a retelling of DL's actions and I see Tamsin moving in with Kenzi & Bo at the HH.
ernestine henry
236. LostgirlFan
@ cmm yeah I didn't want to restate what SuzyM had said in post #222.She explained that the light and Dark fae could only hook up on the special day of La Shoshain.

@Minime can you refresh my memory from season 1 who is Lueann?
I may have missed an episode or two in season 1. I didn't fully get interested in LG till the beginning of season 2. Also wasn't it Aiofe
who kidkapped Bo in Season 1 and not season 3? I am thinking that
I have just completely missed what you were trying to say in your
above posts sorry. I also have to say that you are not the only who
thinks that Tamsin may temporiarily move in with Bo and Kenzi
at their place. I also think that its a good possibility given the fact
that poor Tam Tam is homeless and now with out a truck to live
in. Hmm I wonder how Lauren is going to deal with that scenerio
if she does move in? I am actually going to enjoy that kind of
awkward deliciousness of having Lauren try to deal with the fact
of Tamsin moving in with her gf if it happens. @Kiersten I do think that Bo will probably only make a cameo in
episode 1 and will definetly be back for episode 2. I saw a tweet
from Kris HR that episode 1 was wrapped up and done on June 21
or June 22. Anna Silk was back on set I think June 20th, so I'd be
surprised if she didn't show up for episode 2. You know I always
thought that episode 1 would start off with Bo, Tamsin, and Dyson
together in the Wanderer's lair, but now it sounds like that won't
be the case. If Dyson shows up in episode 1 as it sounds like he is,
then I am sure that Tamsin will also. Maybe Dyson and Tamsin was
taken to a separate place from Bo, and everyone spends most of
episode trying to find and rescue Bo? There are so many possibilites
that I can't even stand it. Just sitting here thinking about it gets me
excited for season 4 to hurry up and get here.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
237. Kiersten
For those of you asking about "threaded" comments, i.e. the ability to comment on someone's comment rather than have to scroll to the bottom to write an entirely new one, unfortunately, when the H&H site was built, it was not done to accommodate threaded responses (despite our coordinator's multiple requests over the past 2 years.) It would require a massive rebuild of the entire site to include them now, which at the moment is not going to happen, so we'll have to soldier on as were are for the near future.
Linda Losik
238. LindaL
@LostGirlFan: She was the mid-wife who delivered Bo and then got her to safety. We don’t know if she was running from Aofie, Bo’s father or both. We just know that she got Bo to her human parents. She was supposed to be executed, was executed and then revived by Trick only to leave into hiding on Fae Day.

I would truly love it if Tasmin moved into the HH! And given her opinion of the doctor, just makes it feel even better! I am so very tired of Lauren. More Hale, more Vex, more Bruce and even more Morrigan!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
239. Kiersten
There's definitely more Vex this season. Paul Amos tweeted yesterday that he'd just put in his most satisfying day as Vex yet. They're on to ep 5 or 6 now, so looks like he's hanging around for more than a few eps this season.
Tamsin moving into HH would be hilarious on so many levels. One of things I like about her and Bo's relationship is Tamsin's recognition that DL's relevance only applies to her place (or hopefully lack thereof) in Bo's life while she considers Dyson part of Bo's (and hopefully hers) core Faemily. "Your girl...our boy" Love that oh so telling phrase. It's also another reason why I'd like there NOT to be sex between Bo and Tamsin and/or Dyson and Tamsin. Tamsin has outright acknowledge and supported (if whined over) Dyson's feelings for Bo and has never doubted or questioned Bo's established love for Dyson. It would be an odd ripple for her to get involved with either or both of them without addressing that. I've stated before that having those three in a polyship would be interesting (however unlikely) b/c of the already established affection and bond between Bo and Tamsin and Tamsin and Dyson (though that's clearly more filial than sexual) added to Tamsin's clear desire to be part of their Happy Sunshine Gang.
Marie Sullivan
240. Minime
@Kiersten can you put in a "back to top" button at the end of the comments? Scrolling on my kindle gets annoying with so many comments.
You know I always thought that episode 1 would start off with Bo, Tamsin, and Dyson together in the Wanderer's lair
I did as well, I was excited for the idea of Bo & Dyson trying to save Tamsin and escape as a trio :(

@LostGirlFan In 1x02 Bo learns from the farting Willow the wisp that he saw a woman running through the woods with a baby and that baby is Bo. At the end he tells her it wasn't her mother but a midwife who delivered her. In Vexed we meet Lueann is a prisoner on death row and she knows something about Bo's parents. Vex killed Lueann's human family and her execution is in a few days and Bo tries to save her. Trick intervenes last minute and fakes her death and sends her into hiding. We learn in Fae-day the she was the midwife who delivered Bo. Only Dyson and Trick know she is still alive.

The Lueann thread has been hanging since season 1 and I would love to wrap that up by having her tell Bo what happened rather then Bo fumbling through the season trying to decide if she believes Mom's story or Dad's story of how she came to be with humans. From the vision in the Yawning Aiofe kidnapps her from her "loving father".
Marie Sullivan
241. Minime
Sorry going to rant a bit. The fact that on this show no one talks to each other really frustrates me. I feel like they could move along at a faster clip if they just talked instead the characters seem to bumble through the season stumbling along and it makes the show feel so contrived. In delinquents it was so refreshing for Kenzi to look at Dyson and say "How are you doing post dawning?" and for Dyson the tell Bo how he was feeling, also DL let loose on Bo in that episode with her PTSD issues with Nadia et al. No one talks to each other not even a simple "Hey have you ever heard of the Wanderer" from Bo to ANY of the other characters or Kenzi with her rash.

It really is the worst part of the show, I can deal and even enjoy the scooby doo like gilly-suit monsters, camping in an office building and even the boob phone but the non talking makes me want to stop watching the show sometimes.
Heather Waters (redline_)
242. redline_
@Minime -- Sorry, I know it does get to be a pain to scroll with this many comments. Kiersten can't add a "back to top" button, but we'll talk to our designer about seeing if we can add that feature!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
243. Kiersten
Thanks @redline_! I usually hit CTRL Home/End to get to top and bottom of page on the desktop but yes, the need to scroll on my Android, as I did all last week at RWA Nationals conference, quickly becomes quite vexing.
Marie Sullivan
245. Minime
@redline Even if you add it to the links in the about section of the footer, a simple "home" link will also do the trick. That way if after reading the comments of any post the reader can quickly return to the home page to check out the other great H&H posts and features.
ernestine henry
246. Char
Possible Scenario of Bo's birth?

I'm only guessing but Aife was in the dark fae jail, she asked for help from a Druid, the Wanderer swooped in, made a deal that he will get the baby but she will be free, she reneged the deal, stole The baby, named her ysabeau, gave the baby to the midwife, and then left! Right?!

What is going in with the Karen storyline? How does she end up on the Most Wanted List? Do the Fae know she is a fugitive? Why is she keeping this a secret?

WHat is with all the secrets? @Minine Yes, can we stry talking to each other.
ernestine henry
247. LostgirlFan
Hey guys yeah now I remember watching that episode with Lueann. I
guess I just forgot her name. They had that flashback of her running
through the dark woods away from someone. It looks like she was
running from Bo's dad, but possibly as crazy as Aoife is or was Lueann
might have been running from her too? I am just dying to know what
the backstory is about Tamsin's connection to Bo? Rachel S. already
stated that it was very long and personal investment Tamsin has in
Bo going back before Bo was even born. I want to know why she had
so much animosity towards Bo in the beginning. Was it because she
suspected Bo of killing that Dark Fae guy which she did, or was it the
Morrigan putting bad things in Tamsin's head about Bo? I have to
admit my imagination was coming up with all kinds of things. How
can Tamsin have such a personal investment in Bo, who by the way
hadn't even been born yet? I came up with a pretty strange idea that
is the only plausible explaination. I think perhaps that Tamsin and
Bo knew each other in a former life? I don't believe in reincarnation
myself but we are talking about LG here. Perhaps Bo died in a former
life and that is why Bo's dad tells her in episode 9 in the dawning that
he's been waiting along time for her? How the heck is anyone else
going to explain that? I know I can't without throwing the reincarnation card out there. Was Tamsin lovers in that former life
or maybe Tamsin had been assigned to protect and watch over
Bo in that former life. I mean come on people I'm racking my brain
trying to figure this thing out but I admit it's kinda fun coming up
with all these crazy scenerios. Does anyone else think I might be on
to something, or maybe you just never gave it much thought? I know
one thing we will be finding out what that connection will be in
season 4 and isn't it fun to speculate? I would love to hear other
people's ideas if there are any?
Suzanne Metaxas
248. SuzyM
I think that Bo's father has been trying to have a child that had his powers. I think he know Bo had them when she was born and that is why he said he'd been waiting a long time. I don't remember RS saying that Tamsin knew Bo before she was born, nor that she was invested in her.
Marie Sullivan
249. Minime
@Suzy http://nowhitenoise.com/2013/05/lost-girl-rachel-skarsten-interview-season-4/
MM: To refresh my memory I rewatched the season finale last night: we saw Tamsin unravel towards the end of the season… do you think that had a lot to do with her underlining feelings for Bo? Was all of that Bo/Tamsin subtext intentional, I mean she basically confessed her love to her in a bathtub, am I right, or am I right? Laughs.]
RS: Yes. Well, there’s actually a whole backstory to Tamsin’s investment in Bo that will start to be explored in the next season that I can’t really say anything about. But it’s a very long history, and it’s very personal to Tamsin, because Tamsin is obviously a very old, old Valkyrie who continues to reincarnate. The story goes back way way before Bo was even born. I’m excited for the fans to see what happens.
Suzanne Metaxas
250. SuzyM
@Minime thank you for the interview link ;) I really enjoyed it. I don't think that RS was saying that Tamsin knew Bo from previous lives but that Tamsin had lived many lives before Bo was born :)
ernestine henry
251. TheGardner
This is the reason I hate cliffhangers; we all get excited for the season finale then everything is left up in the air. We spend the hiatus devouring every little crumb or tease the actors and producers toss our way like salivating dogs. Then retiring to the infinity of cyberspace to wildly speculate with our cronies, becoming more and more amped up as the season premiere approaches. Finally after practically wetting ourselves in anitcipation the opening episode plays and is almost always a let down.
ernestine henry
252. Jared
I don't ship anyone on the show but I don't think Lauren and Bo relationship was toxic. For me Lauren is the best option for Bo, because the succubus needs to mature and Lauren brings that calm that she needs. It would be interesting a human and fae relationship. So I disagree with you in that point, If I compared Bo/ Lauren with Bo/Dyson, I would say the toxic relationship was Dyson and Bo, the succubus made Dyson inmature. The show is in general for adult people so I find childish the thing wolves mates for life, was really pity saw Dyson all the past seasons "oh I lost my love, I'm sad wolf" he needs to show more about his wolf nature not the thing wolves mate for life. So, I prefer Bo and Lauren relationship. Lauren was the anonymous hero ever and Tamsin was she is like Dyson, is his female version.
Marie Sullivan
253. Minime
Hi Jared! I find you idea that Tamsin is a female Dyson interesting, I don't see it at all. Please tell me more about why you think that, I am quite intrigued and would love to hear more.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
254. Kiersten
@Jared - hello and welcome! Thanks for leaving a comment.

I do my best to look at Doctor Lauren and Bo's relationship and Dyson and Bo's relationship independently against my ideas of a healthy relationship rather than to compare them to one another, but since you brought it up...

Doctor Lauren is constantly trying to limit and restrain Bo and contain her true Fae nature so as to keep her accessible. That, to me, is incredibly immature behavior and a passive aggressive agenda for selfish gain. Dyson constantly backs and supports Bo, often when he doesn't actually agree with or approve of what she's doing. He'll argue the point and then do his best to provide back up for whatever she decides. From the very start, he's been the one to repeatedly acknowledge Bo's true succubus nature and thus her inability to restrain herself to one sexual partner. In a very mature way, he openly acknowledged the conflicts of his own nature with hers so that they could confront the realities of their relationship hurdles rather than trying to ignore or do a passive aggressive ring around them as Doctor Lauren is prone to do. Doctor Lauren's constant need for Bo to be less than what she is so that the doc maintains a power position in their union despite her lakc of Fae power contributes to the toxic nature of their relationship - they each limit the another rather than improve each other as a healthy relationship should.

I know many people dislike the "wolves mate for life" issue, but I think that's more a bitterness that such a axiom sets up Team Badass as the inevitable end game than an actual dislike for a relationship that essentially is guaranteed to last one way or another. When did being loyal to and in love with one mate for a lifetime become a bad thing? Not to mention, a mate for life situation with a woman who's very nature compels her to have multiple lovers is not a happy result for a man like Dyson. The truth is, in Lost Girl mythology, however shaky that might get, the Fae, once married or "mated", have 1,000 years of union before they can change that state. So even if they disregarded the "wolves mate for life" hurdle, should Bo officially "mate" with any Fae, wolf or not, she'd be tied to that union one way or another for 1,000 years. Probably another reason why Doctor Lauren is so desperate to limit her to the constraints of her human nature.
"Lauren was the anonymous hero..."
Well, she has a name, so she's not anonymous, and she constantly betrays those she claims to love with what is often brutal behavior, such as experimenting on them against their will, all of which is far, far from heroic. But more importantly, Bo is the hero of this story, not Doctor Lauren, and the fact that so many have lost sight of that key fact is a large part of the the show's current story problems.
ernestine henry
255. chemistryoffthecharts
Bo and Lauren are the beating heart of the show, Anna and Zoie are doing something extraordinary, no one will ever like them ? Doccubus deserves happiness!!! "Time dissipates the redundant and preserves the essential ." A. Jodorowsky
Marie Sullivan
256. Minime
LOL @ Kiersten just a quick heads up I read on some website that docutopia fans were going to pick a site a day and bombard it with positive comments about their ship so get ready :) and congrats that your site made the list!!!!
@ chemistryoffthecharts I disagree with you IMO Bo & Kenzi are the heart of the show, DL, Dyson and everyone else are just supporting players.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
257. Kiersten
Hi @chemistryoffthecharts! Thanks for leaving a comment.

I do have to disagree with you there however. While I absolutely agree that Anna and Zoie are doing a great job creating a relationship that is real and true and complex, that does not mean that it is a good or healthy relationship or one that should be allow to perpetuate once it has run its course (as it has). And while I know that many see a particularly chemistry between them, despite a genuine attempt to understand the hype, I have never seen a natural spark there, no many how naked they get with one another. Mostly, I'm just bored by their amorous interactions because it is so terribly bland. Chemistry is often subjective and in the eye of the particular beholder, but once in a while a couple burns up the screen with a natural force that can't be denied by anyone. I do not see Anna and Zoie having that force at all.

Thanks for adding your thoughts to our discussion! We appreciate everyone's respectful input.
ernestine henry
258. Jared
Thanks for the welcome Kiersten! You right when you said that Bo is the hero of the show but last season was Lauren for me, she saved Bo, Dyson and all the faes, she sacrificed almost her relationship with Bo and lied Tatf to saved her because is prettu obvious that Lauren was who make Taft half human and and cabbit, Dyson almost told that to Taft. Unfortunately, Bo dissapointed me a lot last season, she didn't show her strong in the last episode, Tamsin has to saved her and she wait Dyson saved her too, where is the strong Bo? Bo was inmature and I would love to see a Bo mature and strong the next season.

I disagree about Lauren put limits to Bo. For me the "No Dyson thing" is understable because Lauren suffers a lot in season 1 for Bo and Dyson relationship, and Dyson is her ex, come on! Lauren allowed Bo to feed from other persons and that for me is love. Dyson not allowed that in season 1. Dyson never would be enough for Bo, he reconigzed almost that in season 1 and Lauren too. So relationship fae/ fae for me is boring.

@Minime, yes. I point that of relationship view, because if the writers going to Tamsin and Bo relationship would be like Bo and Dyson. Dyson and Tamsin idealized a lot about Bo " she is perfect" etc, and Bo is inmature. Tamsin is alpha female like Dyson alpha boy.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
259. Kiersten
@Minime - thanks for the warning heads up! Can't wait to be a part of such a mature, intelligent, non-harrassing, non-bullying plan.
ernestine henry
260. Susan Richardson
More Lauren and Bo please. Lauren and Bo, Lauren and Bo, Lauren and Bo. Oh did I yeah Lauren and Bo! Thank you. Love Lauren and Bo.
ernestine henry
261. Ana_stw
I agree about more Kenzi/Bo scenes. I disagree about doccubus part, for me they are bring a lot of fresh to the show. Human and Fae mix is awesome, so Dyson and Bo relationship is not great for me.

Thanks.
Marie Sullivan
262. Minime
@Jared I am surprised that you don't see DL as an Alpha female also. I actually find Dr. Lauren and Dyson to be much more alike then Tamsin and Dyson. For me Tamsin is a very different character then Dyson and she is much more similar to Bo. To me I think she will be an excellent foil for Bo to see what her life may be like in 1000+ years just like the Bacchaus fae. A friendship with Tamsin will be what helps Bo mature just as Bo's relationship with Kenzi was what helped Bo be a better fae.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
263. Kiersten
Hi @Susan Richardson and @Ana_Stw and Welcome!

Thanks for leaving a comment.
Heather Waters (redline_)
264. redline_
Hey, Lauren/Bo fans! Thanks for stopping by today.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
265. Kiersten
@Jared
She saved Bo, Dyson and all the faes, she sacrificed almost her relationship with Bo and lied Taft to saved her because is prettu obvious that Lauren was who make Taft half human and and cabbit, Dyson almost told that to Taft.

Well, yes, DL did make Taft half cabbit, but she victimized a prisoner by stealing her DNA to do it, and then brutally abused Dyson against his will to perpetuate the deception, so no, not heroic by a long shot. Yes, Dyson acknowledged her brillance in managing to make Taft a human/fae hybrid, but given his tone and demeanor at the time, it was hardly a compliment more acknowledgement of fact. Doctor Frankenstein was a genius too after all.

Doctor Lauren broke up with Bo long before she willingly went off with Taft, so no, she did not heroically sacrifice her relationship with Bo for altruistic motives. Rather she ended an unfulfilling and brutally disappointing relationship that wasn't working for anyone several days (perhaps more) before the shit hit the fan with Taft. Frankly, that was the first mature thing Doctor Lauren did in her entire relationship with Bo. I do agree that she certainly nailed the last stake in it in the finale, but by then, even Bo had acknowledged that they were not "on a break" but rather had truly broken up. I can only hope for good.
Marie Sullivan
266. Minime
@Kiersten I was thinking about DL's arc this season and and interesting parallel from 3x01 to 3.13. I thought it was interesting how DL's mentor from 3x01 went along with the prison warden to do unspeakable acts to some of the prisoners (only the ones with good DNA) and how DL essentially did the same thing "for the greater good of all the prisoners" in Taft's lab. However, most people see Sunitha the Cabbit & Dyson's treatment at her hands OK because he survived and got back at Taft.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
267. Kiersten
@Minime - I don't see Dyson's survival an excuse for DL's actions. "Oh, she knew he'd survive it so that makes it OK." Bullshit. People can survive a great deal of pain and hardship. That never excuses the actions of those who enforce it upon them, even in a fake, supernatural world. Don't even get me started on DL's Hippocratic Oath violations here.

Your parallel connection though is interesting. I probably missed it b/c I've done everything possible to wipe the memory of the egregious and offensive S3E1 from my brain. I commented a few episodes ago that if S3 was to be re-examined as a character study/arc of Doctor Lauren, it became a really interesting examination of her journey rather than a disappointing mess of character retcon and fan pandering. The parrellels you mention would nicely support that arc.

If fans can't see DL for who she truly is rather than elevate her onto some pedestal and constantly contort and distort her actions to keep her there, then she becomes a false idol, not a real, complex character with issues and mistakes and not-so-great qualites and behaviors who is worthy of the heroine's (and the audience's) love and admiration. I love Dyson, but he can be a first-class jackhole (something I said directly to KHR who heartily laughed to hear it). That makes him more interesting, not less. I have no illusions as to that character's faults and complexities and still find him to be worthy of admiration (and really, just ridiculous amounts of lust) and ultimately the best partner for Bo on all levels, even those on which they don't align b/c they shouldn't always align. Not only is that a recipe for dissaster relationship-wise, it's really boring TV.
Marie Sullivan
268. Minime
Oh, she knew he'd survive it so that makes it OK." Bullshit. People can survive a great deal of pain and hardship. That never excuses the actions of those who enforce it upon them, even in a fake, supernatural world.
I agree 100%. As I think we all have agreed 3x01 was disturbing and making it OK that the bird fae was happy to have a baby and doing well after being ruffied and assaulted and the episode was "campy" is utterly deplorable as is EA not understanding why that episode was so poorly received.

If you also take into account DL's relationship with her patient Bo in season 3 and her reaction in Delinquents to the student teacher relationship (so we are told by Kenzi that DL was talking smack about the unprofessionalism displayed by the gilly monster fae) it really brings home the DL arc you talked about in your recap for 3x10 or 3x11 you hit the nail on the head in many ways with your assesment that season 3 was really about DL and her growth. I do see such a double standard with DL.
ernestine henry
269. LostgirlFan
@SuzyM yes agreed we don't really know if it's a reincarnation thing or
not. I was just trying to figure out how a 3000 year old Valkyrie could
develope a backstory/history and a very personal investment in a Fae
who is only 30 something years old? The whole thought of it is mind
boggleing unless you think about it in a reincarnation type of way.

@Ana_stw I have to disagree with you that the Human and Fae
relationship is better than the Fae + Fae relationship. Bo was
constantly hungry because of the fact that Lauren was not strong
enough to feed her properly in the sack. When Bo was feeding off
Dyson she wasn't struggling with hunger issues. Let's not forget
that Human + Fae relationships in the Fae world is pretty much
looked down on and could get the human in trouble or killed if you
are Dark Fae.

@Kiresten I hope you were being faceious when you said that you
were looking forward to a intellectual and non bullying discussion
with the Doccubus folks? Hmmm don't bet on it most of them are
pretty fanatical and tiresome who couldn't debate their way out of
a paper bag. The best agrument they have is lauren is so perfect and
Bo is so immature. Oh and they'll bring up the chemistry thing. I
wonder where that chemistry thing was when lauren basically broke
up with Bo in episode 10?

@Chemistryoffthecharts I think it would be wise for you to remember
that LG is only a show and struggles to get picked up from season to
season. I fear most of the doccubus crowd may actually have a mental
break down when the show does go off the aire?

@Jared umm lauren wasn't being noble when she quote unquote
allowed Bo to feed off other people. She admitted to Bo that she
didn't have much of a choice she had to allow it. Sorry but that tells
me that if she didn't have to allow it then she wouldn't. There is nothing noble about that.
Suzanne Metaxas
270. SuzyM
@Jared I don't think that someone who is willing to be true to someone for the rest of their life is being immature. Immaturity to me is someone who can't commit, needs to play in everyone else's sandbox and won't work on building a relationship with one person. Immaturity to me is someone who says "You can't give me what I Need"; a true relationship is US not ME.

I find it interesting that Doccubus fans find the need to target blogs that favor another ship. Why is that necessary? Must everyone think as they do? I find that not only immature but bullying. I personally have no respect for bullies.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
271. Kiersten
@LostGirlFan - I'll admit, I did mean that as slightly tongue-in-cheek, but more as a pre-emptive attempt to keep away any extreme vitriol or bullying posts while people express their sometimes contradictory opinions.

Debate of opposing viewpoints is great; direct abuse/attack posts need not apply.
ernestine henry
272. Earwin
I have to say, before I start talking about something else, that I like the Doccubus couple, because of Anna and Zoie's chemistry on screen and the way Lost Girl developed those feelings. But that's up to me and it doesn't make me blind.

I want to add that Zoie Palmer has been already in set, since we got this image from S4 set:

Now, I can say I liked your post, and the most of your conclusions. However, I don't agree with your speculations about Dr. Lauren, except when you say she needs a better story, a better development. Indeed, she needs it. The character is crazy asking for better situations to go through and more chanllenges that really have to do with herself and her inner-essence. And here I should say that they have Zoie Palmer, who is a great actress and is more than super-qualified to develop a better character on Lauren, she's proved that. So writers are wasting their resources.

I agree that we need more Dyson. More of S1's Dyson. He was less desperate, he had some clearer ideas of who he was and what he had to do for everyone's welfare. He became almost a boring character and he needs, as well as Lauren, a better story plot. I have to exclude the scenes that Lauren and Dyson shared on S2 and S3. I want them to fight for Bo's love, but don't want them to fight each other. Because, actually, their love for Bo is something they have in common, and a reason they share: they both love Bo, and there's no need to explain why, since the two of them know it deeply.

I had also a complaining about the way they performed sex scenes. Bo-Dyson sex scenes looked a lot more "open" or bold than Bo-Lauren ones. Except for one or two in early S3. Anyway it was compensated because I felt Bo-Lauren scenes more romantic than Bo-Dyson ones, and here I'm not talking just about sex scenes. Then, there are two things to improve.

Coming back to the post and what I would add... I feel that there's nothing left for Lauren, if they follow your speculations. Like, I see it this way:
Lauren seems alone in the fae world. If they develop her backstory, integrating the information already established about Congo, Afghanistan and the whole Karen Beattie thing, it would be really interesting and we would get some answers. But it would be still her past, but the story is being portrayed in the present, so Lauren needs to do something right here and right now.

If we forget about Lauren's past, we have this:
*She's got Dyson stem scells in her hands.
*She seems to don't have any friends on fae world other than the gang. And she's not very close to them except for Bo.
*There's some lack of authority in the Light Fae world, so she's got a chance to run away.
*She's clever, she's a doctor, she has a beautiful imagination and hability to invent solutions.
*She has nowhere to go if not the compound, including her appartment.
*She's out there, probably alone -but now we now she meets Bo, because of the pic I put before- and she has become a target.
*The power that science gave to Lauren in this show is incredible. But it looks like she's always defenseless and has nothing to negotiate with.

If I didn't forget anything, she has only a few ways left:
1. Run away. She goes away and we never get to see her again. Result: the show becomes poor. Zoie Palmer is one of Lost Girl's core.
2. She uses Dyson's stem cells on herself. She becomes fae. Or not?
I don't know what to think about this. If she becomes fae, she would get rid of the organic issue that made her relationship with Bo really troubled. But if the DNA mixing goes wrong? She's the only doctor in town, until now. She's the only one who has such knowledge about Fae biology and who also knows the gang's dynamics. So what could happen if she becomes fae? I think I don't like this idea. She would lose her merit for being a human walking among fae, and it would change her essence. So I don't like it. But she's got a great power in her hands.
3. She gives up her fight/love for Bo and a) runs away (which would deliver an awful result) or b) works for her in exchange of protection. Like in S1 she helped Bo because she loved her and under Light Fae authorization, she now can help Bo due to her love and Bo would protect her for the same reason. But there's no relationship going on. It looks so damn boring, I don't like Lauren -so powerful for her wisdom- working almost as an employee because, well, she has nowhere to go and nobody to ask help to.
4. She goes back together with Bo: a) Being human, and we go back to the old problems of the fae-human incompatibility; b) Being fae, so she's fae like Dyson, and she's even more powerful. But it'd go against her inner-self.

I actually don't know what to expect from Lauren, but I am sure that I want her to find a place into any group -and not just float in the air like an abandoned puppy- and to exploit her wisdom-power. She's the only person in the world that has such amount of knowledge and science capabilities on fae issues, so if I were fae, I would be looking for her all over the world.

I agree with you in all the other aspects of the show. I also want to see more of KC, Paul and Rick. I'm missing them.

I apologyze for any mistake o missunderstanding that could appear on the post, I have been writing this and analyzing Lauren's case for two hours. My mind asks for a rest. Oh.. this reminds me: Please, don't ever ask a rest for a character. In order to be good characters, they have to be always challenged, always in the middle of a hard decision that will change the course of the world, because that's what makes them interesting. Rests are so boring for fictional characters... And we agree on wanting this show to be better, because there's a lot to improve here and we would get a lot more fun.
ernestine henry
273. Earwin
Oh, sorry. I'm a spanish speaker and now that I posted it I found a few spelling -and maybe grammatical- mistakes. Sorry for that.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
274. Kiersten
@Eawin - that was a great, thoughtful, deep, complex, and interesting post. Thank you very much for contributing it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
275. Kiersten
@Earwin - don't ever worry about the spelling and grammar. I'm sure I can't properly spell "hello" in your native language, so already you are far above my skills.
Marie Sullivan
276. Minime
Bravo @Earwin, that was an amazing and well thought out post, I have much to ponder. I do hope you continue to contribute here!
Marie Sullivan
277. Minime
@Earwin thank you for adding that DL pic I kept getting flagged and couldn't find it outside of Tumblr
ernestine henry
278. Galina
GO GO DOCCUBUS-ALWAYS AND FOREVER! THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LAUREN AND BO IS THE BEST LOVE STORY EVER! WE WIN EVERY SINGLE VOTE FOR LOVE COUPLE IN EACH CHART. THE CHEMISTRY BETWEEN BO AND LAUREN IS UNSURPASSED.....EVEN ELILY ANDRAS SAYS THAT LAUREN AND BO MAKE BABY WHEN THEY LOOK AT EACH OTHER!
Suzanne Metaxas
279. SuzyM
@Earwin Welcome! Thank you for your input to our little community. I hope you continue to join in with us and post your views. :D We may not agree with your views but we will always respect your right to voice them ;)
Linda Losik
280. LindaL
@galina: please turn off the caps lock...it is just like shouting. And just because we disagree with you, does not make us wrong. We Do Not See chemistry between Bo and Lauren.

And it might behoove you to remember that this is the story of a Lost Girl named Bo.....Not Lauren's story, she is only a supporting character not main character.....I am so SICK of Lauren and her story.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
281. Kiersten
HI GALINA! THANKS FOR LEAVING A COMMENT! WE APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S RESPECTFUL INPUT! HAVE A GREAT DAY!
ernestine henry
282. Char
Welcome to the Lauren and Bo fans.
ernestine henry
283. Susan Richardson
Hi Kiersten thank you. Doccubus all the way. Love ya.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
284. Kiersten
FTR while I disagree that Doctor Lauren is part of the core part of Lost Girl - that would be Bo, Kenzi, and Dyson as established from the get go in S1 - I do, and have always, thought that Zoie Palmer rocks and have never wished for her not to be a part of the show.

Doctor Lauren's relevance to the others and their adventures is almost entirely (I did say "almost") dependent on her relationship status with Bo. Without that, her role becomes greatly reduced to her medical input when required/consulted. She never really has fit comfortably in with the overall group (perhaps because of her status as a human "owned" by the Light Fae or maybe because they all know better than to trust her without reservation), which is part and parcel of the ongoing problem.

Personally, I think she'd be a far better foil/opponent than ally/lover/friend, not to mention that it would make her character exponentially more complex and interesting and have the added benefit of giving Zoie Palmer something to do other than mewl and blink and cry over Bo. But I don't think Lost Girl will ever have the guts to go in that direction.
Suzanne Metaxas
285. SuzyM
@minime can you give me the link to the board that directed Doccubus fans to bomb Dyson blogs?
ernestine henry
286. Char
@Earwin. I found your post to be extremely insightful in regards to Lauren. I too believe that Lauren and Dyaon have both lied to Bo. I also agree that Lairen needs better character development and to find out what happened to Karen.
ernestine henry
287. Char
How was Dyson immature in his relationship with Bo?

Fans who are asked to bombard "Dyson sites" may be looked upon as immature.
ernestine henry
288. Maru
So @Char, doccubus fans can't express their opinion on Dyson websites? Talk about inmature persons. Dyson fans souldn't express their opinion Lauren's websites too then.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
289. Kiersten
@Maru - Everyone is welcomed to express their opinions here at Heroes and Heartbreakers regardless of who or what they may " 'ship". We simply ask that all comments be rendered respectfully and that commenters refrain from personal attacks on individuals.

Debate of opposing viewpoints is great; direct abuse/attack posts need not apply.
Marie Sullivan
290. Minime
@Suzy it was on doccubus. com a while ago like 2-3 months, something about talking up Bo & Lauren on all sites up to the premiere of season 4 in order to generate interest in the show. Dyson blogs were not singled out, they plan to hit Syfy, IMDB, Spoiler TV, AfterEllen and I think they flooded AV Club a month ago after they dropped coverage. As soon as I saw so many pro doccubus posts I realized that this site would make sense to post on as well. They all had agreed to be positive about it and not bully.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
291. Kiersten
@Minime - that's for that update. Clarifies things well. I'm happy to hear the intent was to spread word and not negatively infiltrate or bully other sites.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
292. Kiersten
FTR while many in the Lost Girl fandom have tagged the Heroes and Heartbreakers Lost Girl community as a "Dyson blog," in fact all aspects of the show are deconstructed here. Now my personal recapper's viewpoint unquestionably skews toward the Wolf Man and I own and wave that flag proudly. But that's what it is: personal. And there is much more to this show than just who Bo is banging at a given moment (however much we may tend to fixate on it.) We discuss many of those other aspects on this site regularly from Fae mythology to lineage to power and morality to relationships and character and basic story structure especially when it all goes off the rails. And often, many viewers/commenters who prefer DL as Bo's S.O. weigh in with their thoughts on those matters too, as evidenced by this ongoing discussion (and exemplified by Earwin's fantastic post above.)

Which is all just to say - flood away.
ernestine henry
293. LostgirlFan
I didn't even know that this is a Dyson website. I know that there are
several dyson fans here but I wouldn't call it a Dyson website. I actually
see people talking about all different kinds of things that pertain to the
LG show and not one particular ship. I have personally seen doccubus
posters say all kinds of nasty things about people who don't agree with
their particular view. I would also like for people to know that the
doccubus people are so disturbed by the fact that Bo and Tamsin are
getting votes on the After ellen Femslash maddness tourney, and that
Doccubus wasn't even represented that they have asked all doccubus
fans to vote against Bo and Tamsin to win. Bo and Tamsin 3 or 4 days
ago was easily winning 70% to about 30% then the word was sent out
to vote against Bo and Tamsin and now Bo and Tamsin is behind 49%
to 50%. If you don't believe me you can go to the showcase Blog and
2 people have posted comments from Doccubus fans telling other
Doccubus fans to vote against Bo and Tamsin and that they need to be
defeated. It's the most recent blog called " Production starts on season
4 of lost girl " A poster by the name of Jordan posted something about
it and a poster under the name of Guest did too. It's all right there for
everyone to see. Most doccubus fans don't really care about the show.
LG could get free publicity to try and get more people to watch the show so it can stay on the aire and the doccubus people pull that crap.
They don't even realize that they are actually working against the very
ship that they claim they love so much. Their hate of Tamsin and the
possible notice I said possible ship of Valkubus is so threatening to
them that they would actively work against LG getting more free
publicity on the After Ellen website. I am sorry but these people or at
least most of them aren't even thinking straight Kiresten. I understand
you want to welcome everyone and yes they should all be welcomed,
but remember with some of the good ones you'll be getting the absolute
crazy and manical ones too. I am sorry if that offends anyones sensibilities but I have to call them as I see them. I would like to say
say thank you to Earwin. You seem to be one of the few Doccubus
fans who are actually intelligent and respectful of the rest of us.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
294. Kiersten
@LostGirlFan - it's disappointing that some people appear to be actively promoting on other sites to vote negatively, but it's important not to paint all fans of one group or another with the same general brush.

Both I and my editors monitor the comments here regularly in order to maintain a safe environment for open discussion. Hopefully, that will continue to be enough to stem any extreme crazy from all sides of the show's fandom.
ernestine henry
295. Char
@Maru

I never said you could not express your viewpoints on this forum. I welcome all and any viewpoints.

I reiterate, Fans who are asked to bombard "Dyson sites" may be seen as immature. You took my comment entirely out of context.

Feel free to comment!
Katherine Bloom
296. lsbloom
I am so confused, when did this show become about "maturity"? First off, I'm not sure what everyone's definitions of mature are, but all the comments seem to come down to Lauren is but Dyson, Tamsin, Kenzi, and Bo aren't. If "mature" means stuffy East Coast WASP stereotype, we ignore problems until we get drunk at Christmas and then run away, then I'll stick with immature. Facing problems, getting angry, not always following the rules or necessarily being polite and quiet in the corner. But more than that, "mature" decisions tend to come at the expense of drama--calm, rational, unemotional, and ideologically consistent are the enemies of drama. People have to display emotions, get angry, act impetutously, be selectively obtuse, otherwise the story wouldn't work. Bo isn't a stuffy vicisously pragmatic character, she's brash, she's hasty, she's self-centered, but she's also vulnerable, loyal, passionate.

Season 2 all we heard was stop muzzling the succubus, and now she's too much succubus, too fae, too passionate, too emtionally uncommitted. I'm sorry if people wished Bo sat at home getting in touch with her "humanity" talking about modern art and taking intimate baths with Lauren, but thankfully for me, she still retained some of her spunk. Her spunk that didn't wait for Lauren to run tests, instead she went after Kenzi. Bo gets out and does, sometimes without thinking all the way through, but it's her way and it works. That doesn't make her immature any more than desiring to maintain a lifelong commmitment makes Dyson immature.
Suzanne Metaxas
297. SuzyM
@Maru No one here eveer said Doccubus fans weren't welcome here. ALL LOST GIRL FANS ARE WELCOME HERE. We are here to discuss our opinions and views without being attack by any ship and Thanks to Kiersten and Redline that is how it stays. All anyone was saying was that we resent a ship deciding to bomb the blog we love for thier own agenda. All who wish to come and discuss civily and without bullying are more than welcome ;)
ernestine henry
298. TheGardner
What the hell, I go to work and the website explodes? In reading all of these comments there is one thing that is clear; shipping is stupid. All sides are firmly entrenched there is no swaying anyone from one side to the other. Everyone obviously has their preference, or in my case a default, but meh, I'm bored now, time to stare at shiney things...

So, um yeah, of the "house/dwelling/abode" sets does anyone have a favorite and why?

Mine is Lauren's apartment. The open floor plan is upscale and modern, although I do find her lack of a dining room off putting. Hilton Hovel has charm and character, but I would fear the roach-termite hybrids and they live in what do they do in the winter? Dyson's place reminds me of an autobody shop, plus I'm a lady, I need a closet. As for Tolkien's Lair, the cave like atmoshpere is only charming if you are mole.
Katherine Bloom
299. lsbloom
I think the fans have gone beyond shipping. This isn't really even about a pair anymore. Doccubus spends most of their time complaining about Bo and how the writers have written Lauren. Nevermind the fact that how she is written is who she is, there isn't some other Lauren that the her fans know but the writers don't. For some Lauren isn't who you see on the screen: Lauren is the hero, Lauren is mature, Lauren is being given the short shift. Bo needs to be less fae and more mature, ie, Lauren. Whether it is built out of love or a social agenda, I don't think it is about shipping or even who Bo should be with, it's about what story people want to see and who should take the leads in telling it.

Take the question of set. Sets are designed to reflect the personalities of the people who inhabit them. Lauren's apartment is clean and modern and sterile. It's for someone who doesn't make messes or talk loudly. HH is for our two ragamuffin girls, loads of potential but a work in progress, and it's situated on maybe the wrong side of the tracks. It has warm colors, owners who have better things to do than put on rubber gloves and sterilize their quartz countertop, with weapons and pizza and alcohol everywhere. Bo has a lushious bed in sexy colors. Dyson's place is spartan (except when Ciara stepped in and introduced a throw rug) for a bachelor and a warrior (although I've never understood what is up with the purple sheets). He isn't cooking, he's fixing his bike and working out. Dyson doesn't nest. He's a lone wolf and a cop. Trick's lair looks like Trick, old fashioned, bordering on mythological, bookish with comfortable things and treasures secreted away.

By posing a "which set do you like question" you are inherently asking what character do you most identify with. And more than shipping that fight is what we've devolved into.
ernestine henry
300. Char
@Gardner. I love Tolkeins lair. I like the underground look. Every time Trick goes into his home, I feel as if I have stepped into a different land and off to an adventure. Goonyesque....Rocky Road! :)

Lauren's place is too modern for my taste. I love how she has decorated her home. It is the most inviting. You know, pull up a chair and have some drinks. But you could do it the Dal too.

Dyson's place is Lofty meets garage. All that he is missing is a chain link fence for his headboard.

Bo and Kenzi's place is my least favorite. I am not a fan of living in a home improvement work site.
ernestine henry
301. Char
@Isbloom-I love Bo and Kenzi but thier home does need some improvement. You think we can get the Property Brothers or Renovation Raiders to fix their home? That would be hilarious !
Marie Sullivan
302. Minime
If you paint the HH interior white it would look like a set in my local
Anthropologie store and I love Dyson's flat it would be a perfect art studio for me.

I also don't see this as much a Dyson blog as a proFae blog. The difference between most of the posters here and doccubus posters is the docutopia fans don't like the fae and would love a switch in genre to make it Bo, Kenzi & Lauren vs the Fae with Bo trying to destroy the fae. They see the fae as bad. We on the other hand want to see more fae, learn about the fae and find them fascinating.

I have also been inviting Tamsin fans I met on other boards to join us here (I stopped commenting on other boards because it was hostile but thanks to Isbloom I found a home here) as they have no place to go, they are abused on most forums and banned from docutopia centric forums except if they want to badmouth Tamsin. I do like that this site is fair and very inclusionary vs other sites that if you say "I find DL boring and I don't see eye sex with Bo & DL" you are called homophobic. I love TheGardners Lauren comments and I hope Earwin continues to chime in, other wise we would all agree and it would make for a boring chat.
ernestine henry
303. TheGardner
@lsbloom- Seriously? Just wow, over analyze much?

For anyone else who cares, my question about where you would want to live was posed in fun and not part of a greater character study.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
304. Kiersten
I love HH (and that you all call it HH!). I love the feel and vibe and the sheer unabashed personality of it and how well it reflects Bo and Kenzi. I dig Tolkein's Lair and Parlor too b/c it so exemplifies Old World Trick and all the knowledge and history he brings with him. Like Trick, there are so many secrets hidden away in those rooms, you never know what might reveal itself next.

I thought Siren's Speakeasy was a great addition to last year's fluctuations in Fae leadership (and KC Collins dodgy schedule) so sassy and charming with that spiral, metal staircase that went nowhere. Dyon's loft is sufficient a place he sleeps and not much else. He's constantly working, constantly being called on to help people. It's got what he needs, the half fridge, microwave, and heavy bag (not like that!). It's basic, without trappings or decorations, just what you see is what you get, much like him. And yet there are touches of him here and there like the lockers that serve as his closet and the big bed with the papered over windows in lieu of curtains, and the photo of Bo inside the drawer of his bedside table. Doctor Lauren's flat represents her too. Organized, ruthlessly clean, and modern with expensive art work. There's room for her experiments, so it has to be sterile. That flat could be featured in a full-color spread for Decorator's Monthly without any need for a pre-shoot touch up.

So yeah, I like the sets. I think they're very carefully and particularly built and dressed with the intention to reflect the natures of the characters who live there, much like the three overfilled bookcases, four stacks of additional books on the floor against the wall, paper with random story notes strewn over the rug, half-opened Entertainment Weekly, white board covered wall, two partially emptied suitcases, cluttered dresser surface that hasn't been cleaned in over a year, and dusty HD flatscreen stacked on top of Fios box and Blu Ray player and bracketed by stacks of Blu Rays and DVDs reflect me. Or at least some parts of me. ;
ernestine henry
305. Char
Does anyone know the character's asyrological signs?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
306. Kiersten
Hey @Minime I'm glad you feel as though you've found a home here. Thanks for becoming a regular part of the conversation!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
307. Kiersten
@Char - sorry, no idea. Bo's is the only birthday they've celebrated on the show & they've never to my knowledge given the actual date.
Heather Waters (redline_)
308. redline_
Hey, guys, I should have thought to mention this sooner, but as Kiersten said above, Heroes and Heartbreakers is open to discussing all aspects of Lost Girl, and we welcome posts from various points of view.

If anyone is interested in writing a post for the site about Lauren herself, Bo/Lauren, Bo/Tamsin, or another topic, please do send a writing sample and an idea of what you'd like to write about to us at: blogging@heroesandheartbreakers.com.

Thanks!
ernestine henry
309. LostgirlFan
@Minime I think it's great that you ask Valkubus fans to stop by here and chat, and also that you are willing to stick up for us by saying that we really don't have anywhere to go thanks. Like you I also like coming here. It's not the only site I post at but it's the only one that has active posting at the moment and I am glad about that.

@Kiersten yes it really is a shame that some of LG's fandom is so short
sited but ya know not much can be done about it. It's always a good idea to promote your favorite show and support them. Getting all that
free publicity is good for LG, and it's good for those of us who really
love the show. It means that it gets to stay on the aire for another year.
There are some shows that never struggle take the show " Friends "
that show ran I think for over 10 years and you always took for granted
that there would always be a new season. LG I don't think knows from
season to season whether they are going to be back.

@Isbloom I agree with everything you said and couldn't have said it
better myself.

As for what home I like better I would have to say Bo's and Kenzi's
place. Although I think Lauren's place is a close second. Also can some
one tell me what HH means?

Speaking of things to talk about how about we give a top 3 list of what
was our favorite scenes from LG. If you want to tell us why they are
your favorite scences then all the better I'll go first.

1. Faetal Attraction was the episode and it was the scene where Bo and that couple was upstairs having some sexy times and all you see is
Kenzi sitting on the couch eating cereal and dust comes flying down
on her head. I laughed my butt off at that scene.

2. The Bathtub scene with Bo and Tamsin. I thought the acting job by
Rachel S was really really good. Episode 3x11

3. The scene that had Bo trying to keep her mom Aoife from falling
to the ground in Aoife's mansion. I thought it was touching when
her mom stopped acting so freaking crazy and told Bo to let her go,
so that Bo didn't fall with her and maybe die. I forgot the name of
the episode sorry.
ernestine henry
310. Earwin
Wow, I'm so flattered! Before posting I read a few comments above and I thought I'd be kicked out lol! You were all so respectful, so kind... I didn't expect that much kindness. So, thanks, thanks a lot for being like that. And for sure I'll keep posting my views here, so we can share interests and open our minds to new things. I didn't see this blog like a "Dyson blog" but I surely noticed that the most of people that comment here have a sort of interest in him, or ship the wolf, or whatever. It's ok and I have no problem with it. I actually prefer it, so reading and posting will be more interesting ;)

@Kiersten: Hola!! Thank you for your warmth when replying above :) You made me feel welcome.

To @Char I wanna say: you're right. My post was almost all about Lauren. But I have an explanation: that was the only point in which I desagreed with Kiersten's initial post. And it also took me two hours to write it, I literally ran out of time. So I couldn't express what I think of the other characters, for whom I have a warm affection too. But I will post my view of any character you want, so then maybe we can share more ideas. That doesn't change that the character I like the most is Lauren, I accept it and I don't mind if you disagree with it.

I was reading the last comments and I found this thing about identifying with the characters... And I think that I may like Lauren because I identify with her. I mean, I'm not a scientist and I don't think I will ever be, but I like her manners, her insatiable curiosity, even her attachment to the rules, and the modern way in which she thinks and solves everything. I also find her mysterious, unpredictable, and I like that. I think that her potential makes Lauren a core of the show. Having just a secondary role and a short screen-time on S1, she gained thousands of fans. It also makes her important. They didn't expect her to be one of Lost Girl's most important characters, she earned it. I don't know if it was because Lauren is a nice character, because Zoie rocks as an actress and kind human being, or both. But I saw that happen.

I also love her appartment, replying to @TheGardner, yeah, I think I would love to live in an appartment like hers. It's confortable, modern, full of art pieces, extremely clean and sterilized -I'm a bit obsessive with this lol-, it has weak illumination. The only thing I would change is the hue of lights. I would make it a bit warmer, like... a warm, blonde or brownish light instead of the full-white lights. But I think that they put the white ones because it fits the style and I understand it. May I say I loved the illumination of the Bo-Lauren scene at the end of 3x04 (Fae-de to black)? It was perfect for that scene.

I believe, like many of you said, that Dyson's appartment is just like him. He is a wolf. He is a cop. He is a guy who doesn't need a home, but a place to be quiet and alone, to think about what he has lost and what he wants, and to fight with his own feelings. Also needs a bed to sleep... Or whatever else. That's sooo Dyson. I wouldn't take my motorbike to my living-room or my bedroom. He fixes hims in the middle of his place. No art, no sterilization, no bed sheets of roses. Just Dyson's wolfness (I had no other word to describe it), Dyson's essence. I kind of like it. But not to live in myself, lol!

I also love Trick's place. You girls/guys have explained why it represents him. So many books, treasures, warm lights, quietness... It's almost a hiding place, a spot where you'll be hidden from reality. It's also mediaeval! I love mediaeval culture!

About the birthdays... Why didn't they celebrate other birthdays? I would love to join a Kenzi's birthday party!

Speaking of other topic... I think that some of you are generalizating a bit about Doccubus fans. I know many Doccubus fans (or Lost Girl fans that like the Doccubus couple) who are as respectful, as kind, as great as you are here. It's unfair to be labeled as disrespectful just for sharing an interest with other people that take their shipping to an extreme and go off the limits of education. Consistent with this, many of you mentioned me apart of it. I'm grateful for that! But also know that I'm not the only one, happily :)

For the record, I didn't know anything about campaigns to vote against other pairings or whatever negative I read here that they seem to be doing; and if I had known, I wouldn't have joined them. I also don't agree that Doccubus fans are against fae or want Bo to become human and fight the fae... Maybe some people that also had this interest on Doccubus expressed their desires to make Bo human or whatever. I wanna say: if Bo becomes permanently human... Man, this show should be cancelled. But it has like 0,00000000000000001% chances to happen, so, come on, don't waste your time on those silly things you might find on the internet. There are many other websites where you'll find nice people, like here.

Thanks everyone, and sorry for writing so long, it's on me and I just can't help it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
311. Kiersten
@Earwin - thanks again for another great post! And don't worry about their length. My weekly recaps regularly break the 10,000 (cough, 15,000 cough) word mark so it's not like brevity and I are sharing a bunk bed or anything. ;)
Marie Sullivan
312. Minime
@Earwin you are right that not all Docutopia fans are the same, we are usually talking about the vocal minority that hold campaigns to ensure that they win all the polls (I don't have time vote several times a day on a silly poll, I vote with my remote by watching the show) and call them self an armada. They tend to cyber bully those who do not see things their way, a few on this board have been called homophobic because we do not agree with their "ship". Here we like to actually separate Bo & Lauren and not call them Doccubus but Bo & Lauren because they are much "more then their species". I hope to see you as a regular here you have so many great things so say such as "Dyson's wolfness" You hit the nail on the head. And don't be sorry for the long posts, if you have something to say please share!
ernestine henry
313. Earwin
@Kiersten and Minime: thanks girls :) I'm actually having a lot of fun here!

Speaking about awful Doccubus fans... Yeah, I totally agree with you saying that they are a minority. Happily, they're a minority. And there are some other nice people to discuss with.

Nice clarification the one about calling the couple Bo & Lauren instead of Doccubus. The reason you give is great! They're much, much more than just their species or mastery level. But, you know, I'm used to say "Doccubus" and it's just a manner, I don't actually think what's behind that word. I just know it when the word comes to my mind. Anyway I'm changing to Bo & Lauren, as well as I can, since it represents better what they are.

I am wishing to come by and share words with you, people. It's making my afternoons way more fun!
Carmen Pinzon
314. bungluna
Wow, go away on vacation and look what's been going on!

I tried to read through all of it, but just couldn't take it all in at once. All I can say is that this show obviously had the basis for a great sci-fi show and it's horrible that the current writes/minders are screwing it all so badly, imo.

I can't remember who it was who brought these point out, but I personally wish the show was more about the Fae.

Yes, Bo is a baby fae and has a lot of growing up to do, so it would be great not to bogh her down in a serious relationship so soon. Give her time to grow, have more Brians in her life and leave the heaving drama alone for a bit, PLEASE. More action, less soap opera.

WonderLauren is on my black book because I hate ret-con characterization with a passion. Change/develop a character but don't keep changing their history to fit whatever need you have to fix you story mess. I actually liked her just fine until this last season. Now I just wish they would drop her already and go somewhere else.

I like the set for Lauren's appartment the most, but that's because I like the modern, unclutered look. I think the show does a great job with it's sets, especially considering the small budget they have.

I loved Dyson as a character because he hewed closely to my favorite UF hero prototypes. I just wish the show would do more with him than stick him into this ridiculous triangle. Nobody can tell a story without a triangle anymore? WTF?!

Finally, I love this site. What a great feeling, to have a place to come and obsess talk about a favorite topic without fear of being ganged up on for one's opinions.
ernestine henry
315. Char
@LostgirlFan-HH is called the Hilton Hovel. I keep cracking up whenever I hear that name. But I do not like HH. I agree that they have great taste with the way Bo's bed is decorated but the HH look is not my cup of tea!

@Earwin--I identify the most with Lauren but she is my least favrite character. She needs to breathe. Like take a step bakc and not do anything. Lauren has been through alot with the Fae but when is enough enough? Do something. she is brilliant and her medical knowledge is outstanding but what else is she? Bo' girlfriend. That's it. That's all she has become. Now we have the Karen angle. Like what else is there? secret girlfriend and now a secret identity. And then, to not tell Bo who was running from the law makes no sense to me. I keep saying to myself what else are you hiding? What other secrets in your Dr lab coat have you not told Bo? I compare Lauren and Kenzi all the time. Kenzi may not be as brilliant as Lauren but she has a huge heart. Kenzi is human too and she is not just Bo's friend. She is a true fighter and has the grit of a true badass. Just like Team Badass. Team Badass, yes is Bo and Dyson but Dyson and Bo welcome Kenzi with open arms together.

Into my favorite scenes @ LostgirlFan, so many but.....it was the Season 1 and Bo and Dyson and Kenzi were undercover at a hotel, restaurant place and Dyson and Bo are on the couch and Kenzi comes in and plops her body on both of them and then Dyson starts massaging her toes. It was sweet and nice to see all 3 of them together as a family. My second favorite scene was in Season 3 and Bo is talking to the Guppy and she tells her no one will do that to her again. And then she chied (not sure if that is a word) the guppies life essence. I cried and knew in my heart that Bo will always do the heart best thing. My third favorite episode Season 2 is with Kenzi, Norn and the chainsaw. Human, immortal fae, and a human object. Can I get a "what what" for Kenzi? What what!!!!
ernestine henry
316. Char
@Isbloom-- I have been on the showcase and scyfy forum and saw your name there and those people were extremely Nasty to you. Shame on them....but this is a good place. And I am happy that Zanza told me about this place. It is a relief to be sorrounded by people who respect what you have to say.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
317. Kiersten
FTR - I nicknamed Bo and Kenzi's home Hilton Hovel from the beginning of these recaps b/c they live in a condemned building but have flatscreen, PS3 or whatever, laptop computers w/WiFi and no walls?! Ergo Hilton Hovel (HH).

@Char - that S1 episode is called (Dis)Members when they were at the country club and Bo and Dyson were posing as a wealthy married couple. I love that moment on the couch with the three of them because it absolutely shows how connected they are to each other. Core Faemily.

That ep is a favorite as it has that great love confession scene between Bo and Dyson and that incredibly mature and frank "this is who I am and it conflicts with who you are and I dont care cause I love you and I'm yours and I'm willing to do whatever you need to make us work" conversation. And then of course in the very next ep it all goes to hell thanks to Aoife. Another great throwaway moment in that ep that cracks me up is when Dyson is tracking the tennis balls getting hit like he's thinking about wolfing out and chasing after them. And when Dyson takes the piss outta Kenzi when she's serving them poolside and she flips him off. Great, great ep. I freaking love season one.
ernestine henry
318. Cleo235
@Earwin While I do agree that the hostile and aggresive Doccubus fans are the vocal minority, the fact that they are the ones speaking up all the time has certainly given me a negative opinion about them. I just wish the more civil majority would speak up against the bullying that goes on in the different places where the show is discussed. I have closed down my tumblr for example because of the threats and insults I constantly received from said shippers. It just goes too far sometimes.
I have decided to remove myself from the fandom for now, I will continue reading the civil discussions here, but I had enough bullying in High School to put up with this sort of thing. I am however glad there are fans like you representing the good side of that fandom, your post about Lauren was particularly interesting and well thought out, it gave me a lot to think about.

@LostGirlFan I like Tamsin too, although I am not into Valkubus and it seems like RS is back home in L.A, I don't say this to crush your spirits but so you won't get your hopes up about her featuring so heavily this season as she did on S3. It will hurt less believe me.

I have a question for everyone. We all have read and watched several interviews where EA expresses she takes fan input into account very little (or with a grain of salt) However it seems to me that setting up a writers room twitter account and how heavily involved she is with the fandom on twitter that it is kinda impossible to maintain such a stance. Anyway the question is do you think it's good that the writers are actively on twitter exposing themselves to fan feedback while they are writing the episodes?

O.K I guess I have two questions, I have read pretty much every place the show has been discussed and I still can't get a feeling on wether the fan response to Tamsin has been positive or negative. Of course Valkubus shippers think she was a massive hit, while most Doccubus fans think she was an utter failure, a lot of you don't belong to either party, so what has been your overall feeling about the character's reception?
Marie Sullivan
319. Minime
@Cleo I do tend to agree that the writers having a twitter feed seems a bit too much for me but if the S hits the fan this season they will also hear it first hand, imagine if they had it for all the offscreen talks they had in season 3, they would have been flooded with millions of WTF's. Overall I am becoming less impressed by the overall leadership of this show, especially after reading interviews with Shonda Rhimes and how she writes a season. To hear a writer talk about being so invested in the characters and the passion she brings to her writing team vs EA's "we are going on a slurpee run" and "we lost power for 3 days look at us in silly headlamps" makes me less impressed with the show. I know that one show is big budget and LG is small but to me the twitter feed is giving me the impression that the writers don't take the show seriously.

As for Tamsin and season 3 in general, knowing from EA interviews that she split the season so the first half of season 4 is what should have been the back half of season 3 has really forced me to hold off judgment on anything. I really did enjoy Tamsin and the idea that the dark are not all evil, like the bar she brought Bo to it didn't look "darker" they had a ton of people playing pool and wearing polos. I would have loved to see more of the dark clans, elders and they system of government overall. I know a lot of people have bashed Bo for not being physical and almost being a viewer in her own show and also calling the show Lost Valkyrie but I get the feeling that AS had been trying to get pregnant and told the producers (it's a norm that it would be in her contract that she has to tell them) so IMO they held back on the physicality to allow AS to have a baby and passed those reins to the rest of the cast. In the beginning of the season I didn't like Tamsin because her hate seemed too forced but after the Kenzi scale she seemed to soften enough but still call out Bo on her crap, a trait I really like.

Overall I loved the 2nd half of the season and hope season 4 is just as fast paced and action packed. I really do hope that they tie up all the loose ends the show has and give us richer characters overall in season 4 and I know that is asking a lot from only 13 episodes. I would be happy to skip all the relationship stuff in season 4 and for them to just give us a great show.
ernestine henry
320. santiam
Got back from San Diego Comic-con this week. Signing for LG where zp, ks and khr. It was nice to see that the fandom was so active and enthused. It was a small signing by CCI standards but I tried to make it a priority. I talked breifly with khr when we brought them out of the exhibit hall. It seems they all had a good time.
Sadly, my interest in the show has greatly diminished due to the stultifying nature of the Bo/Lauren relationship. I have a dim hope for the new season but quite frankly I'm not sure why. The minute I saw zp, my hope for the new season pretty much evaporated. It's just my personal preference that the show move on from her awkward and uninteresting character in favor of ones with more exotic appeal and actual chemistry. Trying to make a balloon animal out of her character by twisting it into something new was a huge mistake, but only if they had any interest in keeping those of us who were intrigued by first season. For those who loved the other seasons, maybe it's the permanent direction. I hope they enjoy it, but for me, I invested in the original romantic connection between two magical and dangerous creatures. I thought that was extremely novel and fascinating. It's taken far too long to get back to that premise and the latest journey has been one dull stretch of featureless road. But hey... maybe it's just me.
I don't find a same sex couple enough of an appeal to invest in. They have to have something else to compel me to care about their story, their romance, their adventure. I guess I'm just not a romance fan. I want action, adventure, suspense more than tangled sheets and doe eyes. Give me real character with powerful rich emotion woven into a great story. Honestly, I thought we had that brewing in season one.
sigh... heavy, heavy sigh...
Kiersten Hallie Krum
321. Kiersten
@santiam - thanks for the SDCC feedback. It did look like they were having a blast. KHR was particularly unfiltered in interviews - at one point, ZP had to elbow him to keep him from bashing that awful LG app on camera - Kris on a roll is always a riot to watch. I agree that the long wait for Bo and Dyson to get back together has gone on for too long. The vast difference in chemistry and pace between S1 and season 2 & 3 is tangible and I believe the producers and showrunners have greatly over-estimated just how long that core fan base will hang in waiting for those two characters to be romantically involved again. Whether romance is your drug or not, shows hinge on the relationships and the established canon from the beginning was Bo and Kenzi and Bo and Dyson. That we got Kenzi and Dyson out of the mix too was a fantastic bonus. But the way any romantic interactions between Bo and Doctor Lauren suck all the energy out of the show is dragging on for way too long. I too believe a relationship whether F/F, M/M, or F/M - has to be more than the doe-eyed whinging. There needs to be more of a connection, more stakes, more of a partnership, more of a reason to believe why two (or more) people love one another than because they say so and I've never seen that in the interactions between Bo and Lauren.

As for AS's pregnancy and its influence on her physicality in S3, she didn't know she was pregnant until right before they started filming the last 2 episodes of the season and even then, she only told her stunt double so that she would/could take more of the hits. So, I don't think it influenced how much or how little she did in the course of the overall season. I think S3 was always meant to be Doccutopia any way they could make it happen and they retconned and truncated characters (like Kenzi) and sidelined others (like Trick and Dyson to an extent) in order to make it happen. By default, that makes it a less physically engaging (i.e. fights) season, excepting the boring doccubus sex.

@Minime and @Cleo235 - I like Tamsin, not right from the start when she went right after Dyson jugular (and other parts) but I liked the fresh energy she brought to the show. In the beginning, I'm not sure the show knew just what they were doing with her, but as the eps moved on, I enjoyed the non-bullshit attitude she had, especially toward Bo. And I really like the glimpses into the Dark Fae Tamsin's presence brought, something fans have been promised for a long time with little delivery. And by The Kenzi Scale, she seemed to have gotten past her bias and was more able to see the love Bo has for Kenzi ("my heart!") and the reasons why Dyson loves her so much and Bo's connection to him ("Happy Sunshine Gang"). That was a real turning point for the character and I thought RS played the transition really well.

I think, I don't know b/c I don't read other forums, but I think the objection to her from other fans has been b/c of the clear threat she offers to Doctor Lauren's place in Bo's life. Not only is Tamsin involved with Bo, she (like Kenzi) has an independent relationship with Dyson, one of mutual affection and care, and is massively more likely to fit into the Happy Sunshine Gang dynamic than Doctor Lauren, who is always only going to be on the fringe of that group. Overall, Tamsin is definitely NOT an utter failure of an addition to Lost Girl. I think that attitude comes more from those fans who have overly invested in the doccubus 'ship and immediately and erroneously declared it a forever thing from the start of S3 who now feel threatened by Tamsin's arrival and involvement with Bo (as they probably should).

As for the writer's room Twitter feed, I find it entertaining. There is no way they will ever say anything of substance about filming S4 given the gag order that's over the entire cast and crew, but it's fun to see the antics and inner workings BTS, or at least I think it's fun. I suspect that once the season airs, it might become more engaging as they might share BTS things after the episodes end. And as to EA's claims that she doesn't take any input/suggestions from the fan feedback, I call utter bullshit. It's epically clear she favors and has even consulted with a particular fanbase more than once. You don't launch your new season with an "homage" of a B lesbian prison movie that only a small, particular faction of your audience will recognize and like (while the rest are offended and horrified) and then expect anyone to believe you're not biased and taking notes from that faction. That's just insulting your audience's intelligence.

@Cleo235 - I'm sorry to hear of your bullying experiences, both in the past and as part of the Lost Girl fanbase. Many of us have experience both of the same. There's never, ever an excuse for such behavior.

You won't find such treatment here at Heroes & Heartbreakers where we outright condemn all forms of bullying. There'll be lively, sometimes heated debate - that's inevitable when people are passionate about something - but we monitor the conversation and intervene when it seems necessary to calm things back down to an even keel.

It's a TV show, not a bloodsport.
Marie Sullivan
322. Minime
I have to agree with you Kiersten, we can't have Bo getting too hurt in season 3, she has no way to feed so keeping her fighting and injuries to a minimum is the only way a relationship with the two of them can last. I notice that after the car incident and the hot blonde Bo never needed to feed except with the supersuck to revive Dyson. I wonder how different the reception of a relationship with the two of them would have been if we actually saw Bo on more then the two occasions feed with other fae. If in every episode we saw a sex scene with Bo and a random fae feeding and then her going home to Lauren or meeting up with Kenzi I think the forced relationship with the two of them would really have taken another tone. In season 1 we saw Bo feed with the threesome and sleep with DL while with Dyson and in the first two episodes of season 2 we saw Bo getting "drive through" sex while still in her mind with Dyson. Interesting double standard.

I want to add that I LOVE Stella and hope to see more of her in season 3, like Tamsin she put Bo AND Trick in their places and forced them to deal with stuff head on, I also like the idea of her having to deal with Kenzi with her humans are less then fae attitude. Kenzi would have a great storyline and foil vs the forced I lurve DL storyline. That is something that the show really needs IMO.

I also like the idea of the writers sharing BTS stuff once the season starts, it reminds me of the writers Orphan Black blog that I read after evert episode aired and gave lots of great info on the CGI and science they drew from.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
323. Kiersten
@Minime - I had no idea the Orphan Black writers were blogging post episodes. If you could give me the link, I'd love to read up on that as a recap the first season for H&H this summer.

I absolutely agree, it's so telling that Bo fed on others while connected to Dyson romantically/relationship-wise. That early S2 feeding on Bo's part is, I think, a direct result of their frank convo in S1E12 when they acknowledged their true natures conflicted with their love for one another and was a real issue to be handled and not ignored in their ongoing relationship. If Dyson hadn't been so caught up in his own misery at the start of S2, he probably wouldnt have thought twice about it. He wasn't there and would never expect Bo to go without just because he wasn't available ("Fed how on Hale?"). He's always the first one to remind her of her nature and thus her needs. Sure, he objected to the idea of watching her feed with the country club couple - just cause he acknowledges it, doesnt mean he has to like/watch it - but he never told her not to stay. Bo made that choice on her own for him b/c she cared more about his feelings than she did about having a random top off.

One of the few good things about the show pushing the doccubus agenda in S3 is that it repeatedly highlighted the weaknesses of that union and it's total long-term failure on every level, most notably when it comes to Bo's nature and what DL is and really is not willing to accept and endure in order to be with Bo no matter her initial protestations. Had we, as you suggested, seen her off feeding on someone and then returning to DL afterwards, that would've been an added layer. I think we're meant to assume that she continued to feed offscreen they way she did with Blue, especially as EA apparently doesn't believe she has to indicate what's happening off screen for it to be known by the masses (as with Kenzi's reveal to Bo about The Norn and Dyson's returned love.) But I refuse to accept that lazy excuse for not showing what most of the audience wants to see so she doesn't have to commit to it. If it isn't shown or acknowledge directly onscreen, then it didn't happen. Thus, Bo's feeding behavior while latched to DL continue to be unresolved.
ernestine henry
324. LostgirlFan
@Char thanks for the heads up on what HH means. Hmmmm Hilton Hovel interesting :). Yeah that scene where Kenzi took a chainsaw to the Norn's tree was awesome so here is a What!!!!!!! What!!! for Kenzi. @Cleo235 sorry to hear that you had to shut down your tumblr I think that is totally outrageous! and that you were bullied in High School. I think that people become much more embolden when you sit behind a keyboard in the comfort of your home. Those Doccubus people are just cowards. I feel pretty safe in saying that they would not do or say anything if you were sitting next to them as they typed those nasty things. I would like to say though I freely admit that there are some Doccubus fans that are very nice. I have one doccubus friend at one LG site that I used to post at but don't anymore, and I have another doccubus buddy at another. I don't want to mention which sites but yeah there are some good ones and yes probably over more than half their fandom are decent people. It just goes to show that a few bad apples always spoil the rest. I also saw that tweet about her being home, but decided to believe that the home she was mentioning was the home she stays at in Toronto while filming. If she was back home in Los Angeles I think she would have mentioned being back home in Cali and or LA. I think I will take a wait and see attitude when it comes to how much face time Tamsin will be getting. I think that Tamsin has become a pretty popular character and the way the LG producers and writers pander to their audience I'd be shocked if Tamsin only shows up in half the episodes. Heck she was a new character in season 3 and she showed up in all but 2 episodes. Glad to see that there is another Tamsin fan here too. I think that there maybe be several of us here, and the more the merrier right :). As far as the writers giving the fans access to themselves on twitter I hate the idea period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They should have enough balls to stand up and say this is how the show is going to go reguardless. If it's a hit then great if it's a failure then well at least you did it your way. The fans I don't think had access to the writers in season 1 and I think that season 1 was the best season period. Although the addition of Tamsin in season 3 was a good one. I think alot of people really liked her. You should go and read the interview that www.nowhitenoise.com did with Rachel. The lady that was interviewing Rachel mentioned the fact that so many fans had such a great response to her that she was being mentioned as another actor that arrived on the Vampire Diaries and stole the show and eventually got his own spinoff show. I am sorry I don't remember that male actors name from the Vampire Diaries but like I said he got on the show and stole the show and got his own spin off. It sounds like to me that if the lady interviewer was telling Rachel that she may have had the same kind of response from LG fans.
ernestine henry
325. TheGardner
@LostGirlFan- Hmm, favorite scenes huh, OK I will pick a favorite from each season.

Season 1- Kenzi to the rescue in 1x01. Bo is loosing the battle with the pain eater and Kenzi brings her back, soulmates from the start.

Season 2- Lauren's "can I sleep with you" from 2x20. She is so broken and struggling with her grief, then we have Bo sitting accross from her, getting all hot and bothered.

Season 3- "Dyson touched my boob" from 3x03. The expression on Kenzi and Lauren's faces were priceless and the teen trio were hilarious.

How about a favorite love scene?

For me it would be toss-up. I liked Bo's threesome in 1x04 because, hello hot, plus it was equal and not for male enjoyment. The other would be Bo and Lauren in 3x02; it was sexy while showcasing their intimacy and comfort with each other.
Katherine Bloom
326. lsbloom
Favorite scenes? Hum...I'd probably change my mind on further examination, but off the cuff:

3. "We're getting T-shirts" The scene where Kenzi stands up all by herself in Fae Town, it didn't all go her way but she earns herself a lot of respect "handling her shit." Plus, the exchange with Kenzi and Dyson is just hillarious.

2. Opening scene of Vexed. I like the song so much I bought it.

1. The couch scene in (Dis)members Only. Where Bo and Dyson scooched right over and let Kenzi in and they snarked back and forth, and then Dyson rubbed her feet while he and Bo discussed the case. The dialogue was great and they were all working together and enjoying each other and so comfortable as a team.
ernestine henry
327. Char
@Kiersten--Oops about the Hilton Hovel! There is a clear double standard between Lauren and the rest of the cast. I was reading in the scyfy forum in regards to Defiance (not sure if I like it or not) but a comment was made that sex is meant to add to a story. I hated the sex scenes between Lauren and Bo but once I found out that Lauren cannot sexually satisfy Bo, I realized a choice had to be made. Either Bo feeds with other people and stay Lauren and Lauren be ok with it or they seperate. Hopefully they seperate forever! And I understood that the sex relationship between Lauren and Bo added to the story.

@Cleo235--Sorry about the bullying. I understand your pain. I wa bullied from 9th-12th grade. I hated high school. I know this is why I dislike Doccubus (sorry to pair the good an bad together) so much. But when you have a group of people bullying someone, everyone is guilty of bullying because you are not doing anything to stop it.

@TheGardner--The love scenes are important but I prefer intimate moments. A sweet glance to the person you like very much, or a soft touch on the hand...my favorite intimate moment was in Delinquents and Bo tells Dyson that she is in love with Lauren (blah blah blah) and then he tells her when people stop believing in you, things turn out bad, and then she takes the bat and pushes him away. Oh that was so sweet! :) and any moment between Kenzi and Bo, but when Kenzi tells Bo she should be with her girl and Bo says she is with her girl. Another sweet moment! :)

@LoatgirlFan--thanks for the What what!!! I liked Tamsin in the beginning but I hated that fight scene at the end. I will say though that the season finale was not a season finale but a break up of season 3....so I will wait for the season 4 finale. I do like Tamsin better than Lauren.

@Santiam--Comic Con SD sounded awesome.
ernestine henry
328. Char
@Isbloom and @Kiersten--that is one of my favorite moments. Dyson rubbing Kenzis feet.!!!!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
329. Kiersten
@Char sex should always advance some part of the story and never just be for sexy or titilating reasons. Jennifer Crusie teaches that any sex scene should be written like an action scene (b/c that's what it is) with goals and purpose that go beyond getting off or satisfying an audience's/reader's demands or expectations. The sexual component between Bo and Doctor Lauren did turn out to be important as they slowly came to the realization that DL could never be enough for Bo (and not just sexually), but initially it was more sex for sex's sake than anything else.

I tried to watch Defiance but it never gripped me enough to stay with it, which is a shame as I like many of the actors involved in that project. But I'm not a gamer and have no interest in a show that requires me to play a game to get added content. Soon as the Romeo and Juliet teenage love story was madeclear, I was checking out. So overdone.

Too much, I think, was invested in building the world and sets and creating the makeup and not enough in the story, or maybe I just didn't hang in there long enough. I found the overdone makeup on some of the alien species more distracting than realistic as though they were trying to win the Face/Off reality show competition more than create a believeable world (and this from a woman who adores Farscape, which had some pretty involved make up effects). Not to mention that my eyes couldn't handle looking at the albino-like species for long.
Carmen Pinzon
330. bungluna
I liked Tamsin because she brought a bit of balance to the cast. I'm interested in LG because of the Fae. I wanna know more about them all, not just the Light. I also like shows where the hero/ine has somebody calling them on their crap, and Tamsin fit this role perfectly, not only with Bo but with Dyson also. I did not like the "you're so perfect" bit towards the end. I could live with a ribbing older sibling sort of dynamics, but please, not another Bo worshiping character!

My favorite scenes:

1. Kenzie and the Norn!
2. Dyson and Kenzie in the park bench.
3. Beginning of Vexed!
4. I liked the scene between Lauren and Dyson towards the end of S3. It showcased what could have been if the writers had done a better job of developing the promise from S1.
Carmen Pinzon
331. bungluna
How could I have forgetten "I've got the Wolf Junk"!? Pardon my oldtimer's...
ernestine henry
332. NusiD
I am a Doccubus fan and actually got the link to this page by one of those bullying fans, who was saying this was one of the sites that were trying to bury the Doccubus fans. I have to say, I am so glad because this is the best LG discussion page I have ever come upon! I liked Bo and Lauren together but I also liked Bo and Dyson together. I am invested in all of the characters, and I love them all. And as much as I would love to see Bo and Lauren blissfully together, it really was too toxic, starting with th episode where Bo had to eat an energy bar just to stay upright right after spending the night with Lauren. I thought that as season 3 went on, Lauren was trying too hard to control Bo in the relationship while keeping too many secrets from her, not to mention that I think that Lauren was always afraid that she was dealing with an exotic wild animal that could easily kill her, which was also part of the attraction. You are right, Kiersten, the relationship has definitely run its course.

I can't even begin to imagine what is going to happen in the 4th season. Bo now has the power to kill and then ressurrect, like her pa. Dyson knew that she had this power, so I assume so does Trick. Will the big showdown take place in Scotland? I guess it would have something to do with that picture of the winged horse that Trick took with him? Ah, so many questions.

Again, thank you for this site, it's like a breath of fresh air!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
333. Kiersten
Hi @NusiD and Welcome! Your kind comments about our site just made my weekend! Thank you!

Despite all our debating here, I too am not sure what will actually happen in S4 except to expect that I'll be as wrong in my specualtion as I was about S3. Still fun to think up scenarios though, right?

Glad that you found us and hope that you'll stick with us and continue to comment on upcoming season four recaps.
ernestine henry
334. LostgirlFan
Wow you guys came up with some really good scenes that you all enjoyed. I just wished that alot of those Monday nights I hadn't sat around and drank to much Rum and coke. I remember some of those scenes and some I don't remember drinking to much alcohol is really a bad idea if you want to retain your memory of your favorite show. Oh well I guess I just need to break down and buy season 1 and 2 on dvd. I do remember the bench scene between Kenzi and Dyson it was touching. Any scene that involves Vex is delicious and is automatically one of my favs. The scene in season 3x3 where Bo says " Dyson just touched my boob" was totally hilarious. I thought it was funny when he tried to defend himself. Anna Silk did a great job that whole episode. I loved it when Dyson was dancing on the bed to the duran duran song " Hungry like the wolf". I thought is was cute when she told Tammy to crank up the music hahahaha laughed my butt off. @ Thegardner umm yeah I like the scene in Faetal Attraction with that Fae couple and Bo. I'm not sure that you can call it a real sex scene but yeah I like that one. I will say that I think that the sex scenes between Bo and Dyson seemed to be alot more graphic than the ones between Bo and Lauren. I was actually surprised by the lack of sex scenes in season 3. I will say honestly I don't really watch expecting to see sex scenes. They serve a purpose because well we are talking about a Succubus. I do remember seeing some Doccubus people complain about the lack of sex scenes between Bo and Lauren. I couldn't resist being a smart ass and replied back to them to go and watch the L word show if you want to see lesbian sex. The replies I got back weren't very flattering but I got a big kick out of them they made me giggle. LOL! I mean if that is the only reason to watch a show then I think it is a real shame. I am certainly not implying that is why you watch the show Gardner I meant Doccubus people in general :). @Bungluna I am not sure how the Tamsin character is going to play out I don't know if her and Bo are just going to be friends or something more? I am not sure she would have given the whole " You're perfect" speech if she had not been drunk, but I could be wrong. I hated Tamsin at first cuz she was really mean to Bo but after the Kenzi Scale episode I was pretty much hooked. I think alot of people like her because she is a take no BS character and she does have a good heart if you are willing to look past the snark. @ Char dang you got bullied too? jeez that is totally messed up sorry to hear that :(. I am afraid that Bo and Lauren won't ever break up cuz they the producers and writers are afraid to piss of the doccubus crowd. I suppose deep down I can't blame them they need as much people to watch in order to stay on the Aire it just really sucks it has to be that way. You are right Lauren is never going to be enough for Bo and that is why I am hoping Tamsin can help her out. We all know that Bo loves Tamsin's chi so you never know? @ Kiersten I agree with you I had a hard time getting into Defiance but at the end of the day will still watch cuz there is nothing better on to watch. I didn't like the story telling or writing much myself. BTW I love Face Off on Syfy it's interesting how that do all that cool makeup, but yeah I get your point.
ernestine henry
335. LostgirlFan
@NusiD hello nice to see you here. I am a Valkubus fan and have been welcomed to yes this is a good place to talk about LG. The people here actually talk LG and not constantly harp endlessly on about one particular ship. I have doccubus friends at other sites so I don't mind talking to doccubus people. I just perfer not to have Lauren shoved down my throat that is all. Everyone here is very respectful but alot of us have been bullied by Doccubus fans so sometimes its hard to keep an open mind about Bo and Lauren. Of course I can only speak for myself as far as that goes. Anyways I look forward to talking to you :) @Bungluna haha yeah I totally forgot about " Hey I got the Wolf junk" comment very funny.
ernestine henry
336. LostgirlFan
@NusiD hello nice to see you here. I am a Valkubus fan and have been welcomed to yes this is a good place to talk about LG. The people here actually talk LG and not constantly harp endlessly on about one particular ship. I have doccubus friends at other sites so I don't mind talking to doccubus people. I just perfer not to have Lauren shoved down my throat that is all. Everyone here is very respectful but alot of us have been bullied by Doccubus fans so sometimes its hard to keep an open mind about Bo and Lauren. Of course I can only speak for myself as far as that goes. Anyways I look forward to talking to you :) @Bungluna haha yeah I totally forgot about " Hey I got the Wolf junk" comment very funny.
Suzanne Metaxas
337. SuzyM
@NusiD welcome :) Hope you stay and add your point of view to our discussions. I love to see our Lost Girl family growing here. I'm hopeful that S4 will be more story and less ridiculousness :D
ernestine henry
338. Char
@ Bungluna...Kenzi and Dyson on the bench...Oh great scene. Every time I see that scene I think of the song Oh Those Summer Nights from Grease. I know. I know. Weird but I always sing that! Summer loving had me a blast! The Wolfjunk was hilarious. Roger, roger, oh did you hear my voice. Kicking it in the wolf!!!!! DVRed Original Skin. Original Skin is in my TOP 5 for Lost Girl.

@Kiersten--Defiance is not science fiction/fantasy enough for me. It is humans and humans in a costume set in the Old West. Everything is too human. If I wanted to watch a show about being human, I would watch Being Human--I heart that show BTW. It is too boring for me. OMG, Farscape was amazing. I was sad when Farscape ended but when they brought them back in Stargate, it was a nice hello. Kinda like Colin Feeguson from Eureka playing in Haven. I heart Haven too.

@NusiD--Bo having the resurrection chi is awesome. I have always wondered what would be the first thing you would say to your Dad? Hey, I'm Bo and you are? Or what the heck is going on with the weird wandering music? Or were you in my Dawning? Or can I get a hug? Ohhhhhh...the suspense!

@LostgirlFan and the Gardner... I fast forward through the sex scenes. Yes, including Bo and Dyson. Idk. I get it. You are going to have sex. I know how it is done. Have a good time without me. However, I found the scene in Season 3 with Bo and the fae from the bar(dead girl) that was hot.

Did anyone see Sharknado? It was pretty cheesy but I liked it.
ernestine henry
339. Earwin
Huah people! A lot to read, a lot to think, a lot to analyze, a lot to say. This is fun! Hey, but I'm a bit sad, I feel like the only Bo & Lauren / Doccubus fan here, this loneliness...! Oh wait, NusiD likes Bo & Lauren too. Be welcome! I have joined this blog a few days ago and I'm enjoying this...

@Bungluna: I loved the "WonderLauren" thing. I don't know if you were sarcastic or not, but to me sounds great! I can't help how much I like her, I just can't help it. I agree with you when you say you want more action. Loved 3x13 because it was full of it. I also don't like the way the writers treated Lauren's backstory. They mixed -or screwed haha- it too much; so much that it ended like a mess. Oh, and I totally disagree with you on dropping Lauren out of the show. In her own words: "that's madness!". I think that if you don't like how the writers developed her, you could ask for an improvement on the character, instead of drop her, because that would be a big loss. But that's all on you, I was just pointing out that I disagree :)

@Char: When you say that Lauren needs a breathe... What do you mean? If you meant what I think, I'll tell you (or copy, so I don't have to re-write it. Lazy me haha) what I told Kiersten above: "Please, don't ever ask a rest for a character. In order to be good characters, they have to be always challenged, always in the middle of a hard decision that will change the course of the world, because that's what makes them interesting. Rests are so boring for fictional characters... And we agree on wanting this show to be better, because there's a lot to improve here and we would get a lot more fun." We found out too that Lauren hides things from Bo -and the rest of the world-. But I don't think it's her original nature, I mean, what the writers originally wanted for her. I think that it started happening since they wanted to add some Lauren's backstory and they didn't find any other way. It's a chronological writing mistake, which happened to turn Lauren into a kind of liar. But if she didn't care enough for Bo, she wouldn't have helped her risking her own life (and her girlfriend's too, but we knew it in S2). Lauren has given the best she had to offer. And all the characters are giving the best of themselves in the show, and it makes the dynamic rich because they're all very, very different. -I will explain this below-. I loved this phrase you said: "A sweet glance to the person you like very much, or a soft touch on the hand..." People here -including me- are asking for more action and less romance. But I damn love romance. And I found it on the Bo & Lauren couple.

I want to share a pic I found on Facebook with you all:



It reads: "Perhaps there is no greater intimacy than the one of two looks that find one another with firmness and determination, and simply refuse to separate." (My poor translation, but with the best intention).

The thing is that we may see this chemistry or intimacy on different persons, or characters. And that's very personal and impossible to justify by scientific means. So maybe nobody is wrong; maybe we're just different and find pleasure on different things.

@LostGirlFan: I'm not very much of a fun of sex scenes either, and agree that they have -or should have- a meaning. Bo & Lauren sex scenes on S3 show very clearly what many people said: Lauren can't satisfy Bo's body. Because Lauren is human and Bo is Fae. That's what Dyson has in favor -among other things, sure-. But we have Bo & Lauren S1 sex scene, which was pretty romantic and showed that Bo was improving a lot on not feeding off humans when making out, she could control herself, and that was the fireproof. It's a shame that it ended on a fight, but I don't think that Lauren did it just because the Ash told her so. Hahaha I believe that for Lauren it was just a kind of authorization to spend the night with Bo, and did it willingly.

Many of you have come to the point that Lauren is sexually not enough for Bo. So what? Because there's an organic incompatibility they just break up and say "hey, good time but we just don't fit" "right, goodbye darling!". Imagine that you can't have a romantic night with the person you love because, well, or you leave her/him endlessly unsatisfied or she/he kills you. That must hurt a lot. But having the snack period for Bo, which Lauren proved that was willing to endure, it would be resolved. The thing that's turning Bo & Lauren relationship toxic is the fact that, as many of you accurately pointed out, Lauren doesn't fit into Bo's world. The best she has to offer is her infinit wisdom, her scientific/medical abilities and a lot of love that can't be fully consumed. That is killing Lauren from the inside. Knowing that she doesn't fit into Bo's world makes her think that Bo would be better without her. And she's being a little more selfish and accepting that she isn't gaining anything from that unfinished love link. Oh, yes, she has become one of Bo's weaknesses, since Bo loves her; she can't defend herself, and doesn't want Bo to be tied to the task of protecting her all the time. It makes me think: if Lauren becomes fae, everything is resolved! But that would make Lauren too much powerful, and it would go against her true nature and essence. So what? What can we do to make the beautiful Doctor fit into the whole fae world? Or we turn her into a medical consultant only, with the big loss it means, or we give her another way/power/interaction into the group, which would make the show richer. And we can't forget that she still loves Bo, and Bo loves her too.

Lauren needs an improvement in order to fit in the fae world and I want to know how she's going to manage to get it. Because, for god's sake, she always does. And at the end of each season she is hanging by a thread.

@Kiersten: you were the one that said the Doctor could never be enough for Bo and not just sexually. It means...? If not sexually, how? I'd like to know :)

@Cleo235: I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through that kind of behaviors. I was a victim of bullying too, until I decided it was enough and showed them -my current classmates- how wrong they were. Happily I've been able to cut off that toxic ambient on my classroom, and I hope that many other people can too. Words and looks are more powerful than a bashing. As Doccubus fan I can say I haven't seen such behavior anywhere, but that may be because I don't usually join forums or blogs, but I've heard (or knew) about it through Twitter and other feeds, like this blog, and not just about Doccubus fans being mean, but also Dyson & Bo and other ships fandom. You know? Telling them to stop won't change their minds. They are so into what they want that they won't listen to other people, because they don't consider neither that other people can tell them what to do nor the possibility of being wrong. Speaking of other topic... Thank you! I'm flattered! My greatest objective is to get you all to think about things in different ways, and knowing that it's happening just flatters me. And... Speaking about Tamsin, I have to say I liked her since the first time we saw her. She is dark, she is mean when she wants, she is bad-ass, she breaks in and takes what she wants. I definitely like her and want to see more of her in S4. I want to know why she is like that and want to know how's her connection to Bo.

@Cleo235 and @Minime: I think that writers take their work seriously, because the meals on their tables, and many other people jobs depend on it. So, they have to take their work seriously no matter whether they want or not. There are a lot of writers and they surely have different ideas and perspectives of the story. I don't think the problem is the twitter feed, because if they want to know what the people think of the show they can read Lost Girl's FB page or Twitter feed, or enter any Lost Girl fandom page by just typing "Lost Girl" on Google. And, in the other hand, we have that Lauren's impact on the audience has been great, because you cannot move into Lost Girl's world and not know that the Doctor has lots of fans. Since the show is meant to produce profits, which are bigger as more people watch the show, well, I see normal that they want to know how the product is being received. That doesn't mean that they can turn the story upside down to fit audience's expectations, but well, they can slide it a little bit with the object of gaining or keeping viewers. Or they can stick to the original and see what happens. But I don't think that the marketing area bets on that. Ah, you can check some information about who writes the episodes here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lost_Girl_episodes. I found that page very interesting :)


@Santisam: Thanks for sharing your experiences at SDCC! Now... I want to know why you called Bo & Lauren's relationship stultifying... I just don't find where it's stultifying. Where one is human and the other fae? Would you call The Beauty and the Beast classical story stultifying, and get rid of one of them because they're different? It's just a lovestory... I don't find Bo & Lauren's relationship stultifying. But I do find it unfair for the two of them. As long as we could see, they love each other -I personally feel it's true-. It's stultifying the fact that two people that love each other can't be together due to their nature, or the fact that there are people dying from hunger in the world. I'm sorry, that word sounded too strong for me. But, I mean, it's not a whim the love of Bo & Lauren. It was considered since the beginning of Lost Girl, and it has been always there. For me, it's sad that their organic functions are incompatible. But then I figured out your point, when you claimed the "original romantic connection between two magical and dangerous creatures". And then when you said "I don't find a same sex couple enough of an appeal to invest in", I want to clarify that the show tried so hard to not make of the lesbian nature of the couple a thing. They tried really hard to don't point out that they're two women. They have their nest eggs on another basket, not just the same sex couple. But I have to admit that the LGBT response has been huge, since Anna and Zoie's performance on the scenes has been fantastic.

@Kiersten: I don't think that Duccubus (or Bo & Lauren relationship) sucked/sucks energy from the show. It makes the show richer. If we didn't have Lauren, besides there would be no doctor in town, Bo could marry Dyson tomorrow, solve cases with his help -as she used to do in S1- and live happily with him and Kenzi as a core family. But that would be boring. Because everyone would be happy. With Lauren, we have more possibilities, more layers on the story, more challenges and more feelings in the air. Then, I agree that they need better interaction, but not interaction as chemistry, but as facing adventures together, having more ironic-talks and improving their sex scenes' performance and meanings. They have to give a meaning to all those sex scenes they want to put in the show hahaha. You're right when you say that Lauren doesn't fit in the gang, further than medical consultant and Bo's love interest. So, that's another thing they have to fix on her story-plot. I am compelled to say that I didn't like the way you expressed about 3x01 CagedFae's plot. Why do you assume that Hecuba was a "lesbian prison" (can a prison be lesbian?)? Because it was a female prison? They were as mean and horrible and gross as at any other prison. The fact that they were all women and there was a transexual leading character doesn't make it lesbian or whatever. Then you said that the rest -of the audience, I assume- were offended, horrified. Offended and horrified due to what? To the practices that took place in that prison? Yeah, I was pretty horrified of such practices. Changing topic, you said that the Bo's feeding behavior problem was unresolved because we didn't get to see on screen her feeding off other people. I think that the writers put the information once on screen and them assume it as something stable, a routine that continues even off screen. It'd be boring to see every episode a scene of Bo feeding off someone just to maintain such information. It would be out of the normal developing of the plot, and would steal screen time needlessly. But they could make a shout out to say when certain practices that we had as routines are interrupted, updating the information we have about what's happening... Last thing: I don't think that only Lauren and Bo's union is weak. Lauren's union with everything is weak now. She's like floating in the air until she finds an island to land. And that's what I was referring to when I said that at the end of each season she's haging by a thread. But Lauren loves Bo, and love is never a thing to laugh at.

Man, it's four o'clock here. I have a nice idea that I want to share with you, but my eye lids are falling down... Ok: it's that characters are all different and each one is offering the best of his/hersef. I will explain this better tomorrow.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
340. Kiersten
@Earwin - FTR I did not at all say that Hecuba was a lesbian prison. I said that the episode Caged Heat was an homage (i.e. designed to call to mind/lightly imitate other source material) of a lesbian prison B movie called "(Something) Heat" (Help me out guys, I can't remember the name of the movie EA referenced.)

This is not supposition but rather something that EA acknowledged in her conversations/interviews after the episode aired. In fact, I didn't even know she actually modeled the episode in such a fashion until those interviews as I'd never heard of "(Something) Heat" in my life before then.

Just wanted to clear up that confusion.
Marie Sullivan
341. Minime
OK so first off @Kiersten http://www.bbcamerica.com/orphan-black/blog/ The writers have a recap blog that gives us BTS info, character incite and playlists for each clone. Also it was "Caged Fae" and "Caged Heat" by Jonathan Demme you just flipped the names.
Why do you assume that Hecuba was a "lesbian prison" (can a prison be lesbian?)? Because it was a female prison? They were as mean and horrible and gross as at any other prison. The fact that they were all women and there was a transexual leading character doesn't make it lesbian or whatever. Then you said that the rest -of the audience, I assume- were offended, horrified.
Here is a review from a site I used to read, after the 2nd episode the writer chose to end coverage after the treatment of women in those two episodes among other issues with the show…
a miserable episodic story influenced by women-in-prison B-movies like Jonathan Demme’s Caged Heat. It’s every misogynistic, male-gaze hyper-sexualized cliché, supposedly made okay by making the Fae prison guards Amazons.
So while the prison was not "lesbian", the guards, all women, chose to have the prisoners raped and sell their male babies and only keep the females. The guards also chose to abuse and assault the women prisoners. So while the guards are not lesbian and the prison warden is not transgender they are simply "proud amazons and a Lidric fae" the episode is based on a movie that was about lesbians in prison and that came from EA's mouth. EA felt that it was a campy episode that featured Lauren only in a lab coat, Bo cleaning in a bra and panties and was ment to be in "good fun". Also, as a side note if you follow the writers on twitter you will notice that their avatar is the Hecuba Prison Badge and Logo worn by the prison guards.



As for the "meals on the desks of the writers" when I say they don't take their job seriously I mean that they really don't as they can't be bothered to watch their own show and learn what they have already established as world building laws like fae + human = human because now you can "science" a fae with a simple bone marrow transplant. Or what I am hoping is a miscommunication from EA and that fae only get powers from one parent and hybrids don't exist because I have a list of hybreds from season 1 & 2.
Marie Sullivan
342. Minime
@Char I have to agree with you on Haven, Being Human US and even gasp Sharknado, it was a campy fun B movie. I am going to have to check out Farscape after I finish reading the mortal instruments books.
Katherine Bloom
343. lsbloom
The thing is that Lauren fits better into the existing fae structure than Bo does. She's been on the good side of every Ash. She follows the rules, she runs the lab, the knows the history and lore, she knows species and information, and has the political authority to get outsiders meetings with the Ash and walk into their funeral as one of their only friends. Lauren is (was) quite good with faetown. Bo is constantly in danger of being assisinated, light and dark haven't trusted her from the beginning. Half the fae seem to be upset that she won't choose a side. She can't go a bar without someone picking a fight. So actually, Lauren until she ran away with Taft, did just fine with the fae.

Where Lauren doesn't fit is the Happy Sunshine Gang. She is on the outside looking in as she has always been. You can't create a character of the establishment and hyper concerned with rules, and have her join a merry band of misfits and outsiders who are operating against the structure. That's why she fit in her lab and it is absurd to put in her in an apartment with no connection to anything and a microscope. Lauren as a character wasn't designed to slip into the day-to-day world of Bo. Like on Covert Affairs, it is weird everytime they put Auggie in the field. They didn't design him as a field partner for Annie, they designed him to be the tech guy on the inside--he's blind! Lauren is a wimp with a beta mentality and rigid notions of life. Plus, with the exception of Kenzi the rest of the HSG was brought together through Dyson's connections. Dyson introduced Bo to Trick as a friend and ally, Dyson was friends with Hale, Dyson told Tamsin to give Bo a chance and brought them in contact with each other. The HSG are all interconnected relationship-wise. Dyson-Kenzi=big brother/little sis, Kenzi-Hale=sidekick solidarity possible romance, Trick-Kenzi=Grandfather-ish and guru, Trick-Bo=Grandfather and mentor, Trick-Dyson=liege and solider, Dyson-Hale=buds and partners, Tamsin-Dyson=partners. They all fit. Lauren doesn't. Wasn't created to. And backstory can't fix that, either they grow the character or they find something else to do with her, but the time to grow the character was when they made her a regular for season 2, not in season 4. Now let her be a villian or get her out of the way.
Katherine Bloom
344. lsbloom
@Isbloom-I love Bo and Kenzi but thier home does need some improvement. You think we can get the Property Brothers or Renovation Raiders to fix their home? That would be hilarious !
@Char--IKR Potential!?!? Jonathan could have that place perfectly dressed to the nines in a week!
ernestine henry
345. Char
@Earwin--I mean that Lauren needs to breathe. "Waiting to Exhale" phrase..means that someone is holding their breath because they are nervous and or scared and needs to find a sense of relief . Stop and breathe. She has been through so much...working for the Fae, being told she is cattle, finding out the Fae lied to you, Nadia, Nadia's death by Bo's hand, Bo, and Karen. She has gone through so much. I forget sometimes that Lauren has been running for a long time and when will she stop running to assess her life. Has she grieved for Nadia? Has she come to terms with being Lauren/Karen? Does she want to work for the Fae her entire life? What does Lauren want/need? Right now. After Taft betrayed her like the Fae, where does go from here? What does she do with her newfound technology? So many questions, yet no one has ever asked what do you need Lauren? What can we do for you?

@Isbloom--Please. It is going in 4 years! I will submit their home for a renovation.
Linda Losik
346. LindaL
Actually, I think that the HH could use a brownie again. Even with the well ventilated walls, it did look much better under a brownie's care!

As the amount of good "stuff" they have at HH, let's all remember that Kenzi and her family are mostly (if not all) thieves. Bo and Kenzi really don't need money after all, just look at all of the waving kitties that were "acquired" for Bo's B-day party....:D

My favor scenes are:
1: The foot massage scene with all three on the couch.
2. Dyson and Kenzi in the cemetery.
3. The beginning of Vexed
4. And last, but certainly not the least: Kenzi, the Norn and the use of a power tool.
Suzanne Metaxas
347. SuzyM
@Isbloom that was a very insightful look at the Lauren character and I think you hit all the nails on the head! We need the writers to take a serious look a Lauren's character and find a way to evolve her into someone who can fit into the Sunshine Gang but not just rewrite her. I really like Zoie Palmer and don't want to see her written out of the show. If they work a little they can make her character better. They have the perfect situation to do that now. Lauren can do some real soul searching and decide whether or not she wants to fit into the Fae world and go on from there or if she wants to break from it totally. How that would go I leave up to the writers. :)
ernestine henry
348. TheGardner
@Earwin- I don't think it was a case of Lauren being unable to satisfy Bo sexually, it was that she was unable to satisfy her fae needs. Bo and Lauren had sex prior to them being in a relationship, Bo's a succubus so if the sex was lousy I highly doubt Bo would have persued her. Lauren simply does not produce enough chi to feed her, and unless we are retconning everything the same is true for a single fae. In season 1 it was established that Bo needed multiple sources to satisfy her hunger, she drained Dyson severely when she was only relying on him.

Bo's succubus needs have been a part of the show since the beginning, it could have been adressed in one conversation when she made the commitment to Lauren. Instead Bo tried to monogamous draining her reserves to facilitate a Dyson hook-up(one of the most obvious and lame moments of season 3).

You are not alone, I think they make the better couple. Dyson and Bo just don't work, they are both used to being the alpha and their relationship will always be about a fight for dominance. I also feel like they bring out the worst qualitities in each other. Lauren and Bo compliment each other and there is a level of intimacy between them that is lacking in her relationship with Dyson.

Bo and Lauren could have a strong relationship if they just talked to each other, and Bo was a grown- up, but they don't and TPTB want to keep the triangle alive so this is what we get.
ernestine henry
349. TheGardner
So I am noticing a lot of love for the opening scene of Vexed. Personally that scene always makes me gag, I can't get past the fact that they getting it on while Bo is literally dripping blood everywhere, yuck. I feel the same about her bloody-Ryan humpage in season 2. Take a shower first succubus or at the very least don't make me watch it. Thank you fast foreward button.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
350. Kiersten
BTW - RS is definitely back in LA. That doesnt mean she won't return to Tdot for more LG S4 filming later on, but as of now she is indeed home.
Nusi Dekker
351. NusiD
Wow, thank you for the welcome, everyone! I have to say again that I am totally enjoying these mature discussions about a show that I just love (I have watched my DVDs of S1 and S2 at least 20 times, and my favorite S3 episodes multiple times, namely 3.3, 3.6, and 3.12-13.

Yeas, there are a lot of inconsistencies in the LG writers' interpretation of Fae genetics and how humans can obtain Fae powers. In the case of Fae + human = human, the baby needs its full complement of chromosomes to have Fae power, but gets only half from the Fae parent. In the case of a bone marrow transplant, the marrow stem cells have the full DNA complement from both parents. In a normal human transplant, the recipient's own marrow would first have to be completely destroyed by radiation or chemo, then the new marrow would take over and make a new set of white and red blood cells for the body, which takes several weeks, and the patient would spend that time in complete isolation as he has no immune system. I have to assume that in the Fae world, Fae cells injected into the human recipient would immediately set about destroying the human cells and take over in a matter of minutes. I am also assuming that the heart disease-curing substance that Lauren discovered earlier with Taft's help needed to be administered to the recipient first before he could accept the Fae marrow. Otherwise, any human could become Fae with a simple shot of Fae marrow cells. Still, this makes Lauren an extremely dangerous threat to the entire Fae world. The only thing that is saving her now is that there is no Fae leadership right now. Anyway, it seems that it isn't very hard for a human to obtain Fae powers or become Fae. Kenzi has done it a few times. With the Stick of Righteousness she obtained the super-strength of the Fae and was able to beat up monsters twice her size. When she got the Twig of Zamorra she became immortal. So, Massimo the Druid could give her an object or potion to give her Fae powers, or make her "Fae". But she would never be a real Fae, she would still be a human with some Fae powers.
ernestine henry
352. LostgirlFan
@Isbloom I have to say that you had the best analysis of Lauren. I blame the writers for how the Lauren character turned out. She simply doesn't fit in the happy sunshine gang. It's not her fault that she is more brain than brawn. In a way even though I never really cared much for her character I also felt sorry for her cuz she just never really seemed to fit in. To be honest the best thing that the writers and producers could do for Lauren is give her a human girl friend that works with her in the lab, and give Lauren more access to the outside world. I know that everyone will think that I am saying that cuz that would clear the way for someone else to be with Bo, but I swear that was not why I made that suggestion. It really shouldn't have to be so hard for her and Bo to be in a healthy relationship. I don't think Lauren should have to change for Bo and vice versa. Besides alot of the doccubus crowd seems fixated on Lauren anyways. If the relationship between Bo and Lauren is constantly making them want to pull their hair out why not just be happy for Lauren finding someone that suits her better. Lauren doesn't have to have less face time on the tv screen if she's not Bo's girlfriend. The writers can still make sure that she appears in every episode and still is an important ally for Bo. @Char I agree it's going to be interesting to see how Lauren works out all the crap that she's had to endure over the last several seasons. She has alot of baggage that is going to have to be sorted through. @Thegardner you are right it's not about not being enough sexually it's all about the Chi and it's power to feed her. I said it before and I'll say it one more time Bo seems to Love love Tamsin's Chi just saying :). @Kiersten you know I just thought of something she might have flown back to LA because the teenage Tamsin actress will be on set for an episode or 2 blah!!!!!!!!! No no no less Tamsin makes me sad but I guess they have to have teenage Tamsin come in to play. Hopefully adult Tamsin will only be gone for 1 or 2 episodes and not more than that. I was hoping that they were only using that actress to play teenage Tamsin in a flashback, but nope it sounds like it's not going to be a flashback like I feared. Hmmm gonna be a long couple of weeks till Rachel S. takes the role back over as adult Tamsin. Damn at least I hope it's just a couple of episodes. I might have to jump up on that perverbial ledge grrrrr!!!!!!! @ NusiD wow you put alot thought into that Fae DNA and Human DNA thing. You definately have done your home work as far watching all those episodes of LG. Unfortunetly I've forgotten alot of the particulars of the show so maybe I need to do alot of reviewing too. I personally hope that Kenzi and Lauren stay human, and yes Lauren is pretty dangerous with all her knowledge of Fae DNA. The writers will probably just drop the ball and not even bring up the fact that Lauren has this knowledge and go on as if nothing happened. I am not sure if they should do that but I suppose they might who knows?
Suzanne Metaxas
353. SuzyM
@TheGardener You missed the whole point of Bo draining Dyson in S1. It wasn't that Dyson couldn't handle feeding Bo alone but that Bo was purposely trying to have sex with him every chance she got to make him love her. She didn't know that he already loved her but had been instructed by Trick to break it off. That is why she mistakenly believed that Dyson was more impressed with the succubus than love her for herself. Dyson has always loved Bo for who she is not what she could give him. Unlike the character Lauren who used her for what she needed.

My favorite 5 LG moments are:
The beginning of Ep 8 Vexed
The bench scene in Ep 6 Food for Thought
"Fed exactly how, from Hale?" Ep 7 ArachnoFaebia
The couch sceen from Ep 12 DisMembers with Dyson, Bo & Kenzi
The confession of love Ep 12
Kiersten Hallie Krum
354. Kiersten
@SuzyM That all led to that great moment in the beginning of S2E2 after Bo had learned about Dyson's sacrifice when she was able to bring it all full circle and finally understand and believe the truth that all this while Dyson had loved her, Bo, just for her with no other or ulterior motives or reasons. "Me. Not the sex. Not the succubus. Me." Loved that. Of course, then it all went to hell, but it was great that, like the S1E12 frank and vulnerable love confession conversation, there was a clear moment for both of them where they each truly understood how deeply the other loved them before The Norn (freaking Norn!) wrecked their lives.
ernestine henry
355. Earwin
@Kiersten: didn't know that the episode was a homage of another movie, I really didn't hear/read anything about it, so now you cleared it up I feel much better. Thanks! Knowing that, I get why you expressed that way. And I agree with you.

@Minime thanks for adding that information! It's not like I did like the way they managed the episode, I think it was supposed only to introduce Hale as new Ash, Bo & Lauren as official couple and the outstanding performance of Ksenia (or this was just a bonus haha). I saw EA's Twitter avatar, but didn't know the connection with Caged Heat/Fae. So now I understand it pretty better, thanks! Now I can get what @Kiersten said and, yes, I was horrified from the practices that were carried out there. But at the end Bo & Lauren saved the situation and we knew that Hale closed permanently that prison, which kind of let us know that they didn't agree either with that prison's functionality. About the writers' mistakes: actually, it was said in the first season, by Trick himself, that fae children are indeed fae if both their parents are fae and also said that they inherit the fae abilities of only one of their parents, but not the two of them. This "rule" was forgotten a lot of times along the three seasons, and it's a story-developing mistake that they shouldn't have let go, but well, at this point they cannot change what was already shown in the previous episodes. If you meant that when you said they don't take their job seriously, ok, I agree with you. I've noticed a few continuity mistakes that should be fixed for the well development of the next seasons. Do they have anyone who checks this kind of mistakes?

@Isbloom: Yeah, I know that she's a good "member" of the fae world, that she has many points in favor, but when I referred to fae world I was actually meaning Bo's world -aka "the happy sunshine gang"? hahahaha sounds like Tamsin lol!-. It was my mistake, sorry!
It was such a great analysis of Lauren's situation, but you finished it in a way I don't agree. Why just close her ways to be a villian or drop her? The interesting thing about Lauren is that you never know what to expect from her! Using this resource, writers can be creative and open another way for her character. Because, hey, we got some story already developed along the seasons and we can't just drop it. I would like to see what happens if Lauren turns evil. But I find two problems with that: a) Villans exist in Lost Girl, as so much, one season. So if hypotetically Lauren became this season's villan, she would be out of the story forever at the end of S4. And, for god's sake, Lauren for me and for many other people is an important element of Lost Girl, so if we drop her, the show would lose a lot of layers, it would become less interesting. Also, as a villan she would be very weak, because she's alone in that world and no one would notice if she magically disappeared. Being a single human, no wisdom could help her defenseless physical existence, which could finish with just one punch from whoever. b) Being the villan means being the bad guy. If Lauren is someone who sticks to the rules, is so loyal, loves Bo so much, and is a doctor (meant to heal, not to kill); becoming a villan would go all against her essence. She might have withheld some information from her past, but she's not that kind of person who's easily manipulated by bad feelings. So... I still think there's another way for her. She might develop any kind of relationship (I don't mean romance) with other members of the gang, or we could discover new abilities or whatever that we didn't know she had. I hope writers are more creative than me lol!

@Char: Yeah. I loved the "What does Lauren want/need?" and "What can we do for her?" I wonder why no one in the show asked her such things. Except Dyson. But he didn't ask her... When she bought him a drink (end of S2, episode... 2x21 Into the Dark), he told her he was sorry for Nadia and all that happened to Lauren. And at the end of 2x22 Flesh and Blood he told her that since the Light Fae was headless, she could run away and be free (although I don't know if he talked to her like that because he cared about her of because he wanted to get rid of her). I think that he was the only one who recognized at some point for how much Lauren had to go through, excluding all the thing we found out about her in S3. Someone should ask her what she needs or wants, or she could show us by just doing it. At the end of S3 she has no one watching her, no one threatening her (except all the fae people in the world that want her for her fae-wisdom), no official tie to Bo or anyone else, no secret girlfriend in a coma, no place to drop dead! The only things she has are: the secret of the fae world and her connections in it, her infinit wisdom, Interpol looking for Karen, her love for Bo and her huge hesitation about what she wants. She could run away. It's like the third time she's got the chance to run away and make her own life, away from fae and Bo and everything. But she didn't go anywhere.

@SuzyM: you just said all I have written here above in like 5000 less words hahaha. I totally agree with you :)

@TheGardner: ok! Thanks for you input! So... Since Lauren was willing to let Bo feed off other people, accepting that her biology just doesn't allow her to satisfy Bo's hunger, there would be no problem. The problem, again, goes to the fact that she can't fit into the happy sunshine gang and due to it she feels aside from Bo's everyday life. Or that's my impression... And as much as I love Bo & Lauren, I'm forced to say that I feel the same way about them, just as you described above. You know? Bo & Lauren are the only couple in this entire world that brought my inner fan to life. I wasn't a fan of anything before I saw that Bo & Lauren video on youtube, and started watching the show.

@NusiD: wow! really interesting analysis! I loved how you explained it. I want to add to that information the mistake that some of us noticed about the inheritance of fae powers to children. According to that, there couldn't be hybrids as The Glave, or Bo herself (if we consider that she has both her parent's fae powers).

Now... In my last post I talked about a theory. Please, people, I want you to help me out with whatever you see necessary in order to make it better.

I think that we have seven different characters that put their most valuable treasures to serve the greater good:

Bo: Bravery (she's the bravest, in my opinion), commitment with what she thinks is the right thing, desire of justice and equality, honesty, humility. She has put in service of her loved ones her fae power in all its shapes. (Bo is the kind of person that whoever may like. She is acting aside the fae-law, but because she thinks that Light and Dark are corrupt.)

Kenzi: she is human, but tremendously loyal to Bo. She is also very, very brave and faces big horrible creatures to defend her friends. Well, she is all kinds of lovely.

Lauren: she has no great fae powers, and she's no one's soul-mate friend, but she has a lot of experience in Fae science, she's a doctor, and she's incredibly intelligent. She is loyal (boy, she demonstrated when betraying Taft to save them all), she is patient, she is kind of obliging.

Dyson: he's the strong man, the wolfman! He offers his full protection to anyone he cares about. He doesn't mind to fight big creatures in order to rescue Bo or her friends. He is generous. He trusts a lot and is trustworthy.

Trick: Bo's grandfather. He offers his infinit experience in the fae world, his books and treasures, his comprehension and his humble guidance.

Hale: besides his last-minute savior whistle, he's all types of kind and helpful.

Tamsin... I didn't figure out Tamsin yet. I still don't get her happy sunshine intentions. Would you mind to help me out here adding your point(s) of view?

My favorite scenes:

1. Lauren & Bo at the end of 3x04 Fae-de to Black. The way the two actresses protrayed that talk... blew my mind!
2. Dyson and Kenzi in the cemetery, Food For Thought 1x06. I wish they kept cuddling like two hours...
3. Lauren & Bo in Food for Thought, the talk at the Dal where Lauren wears a pink sweater.

Favorite Lines:

1. Regret is for suckers! -Kenzi to... ?
2. My God, you're beautiful... -Lauren to Bo.
3. Toothpaste?... Foot-locker. -different situations.

Have a good day/night everyone!
ernestine henry
356. Earwin
Now I read the comments that were posted while I was writing mine, I want to clear up that Lauren doesn't love Bo because she's succubus or because she can protect her (@SuzyM, from your comment). Lauren, indeed, has to carry with that as a burden that comes with the package. Lauren would love to be able to defend herself and be enough to Bo's hunger. She loves Bo because Bo is all I written above when I put a brief description of her. If she wanted to use Bo in order to get her freedom -like, saving Nadia, which Lauren didn't know Bo did. She thinks that the 2nd Ash did it-, she would have run away long ago.
Nusi Dekker
357. NusiD
@Earwin: "About the writers' mistakes: actually, it was said in the first season, by Trick himself, that fae children are indeed fae if both their parents are fae and also said that they inherit the fae abilities of only one of their parents, but not the two of them. I want to add to that information the mistake that some of us noticed about the inheritance of fae powers to children. According to that, there couldn't be hybrids as The Glave, or Bo herself (if we consider that she has both her parent's fae powers)."

Those are pretty bad writer's mistakes especially about what Trick said, and I have add that further, in Bo's own geneology, Trick was not an incubus, his power was to write Fae laws in his blood, or anything that he wanted to come to pass. I don't know how Trick feeds off humans, but he certainly doesn't do it the way Bo, or his daughter Aoife did. So according to Trick's explanation, his wife should be a succubus, a trait inherited by Aoife. We are never told what kind of Fae Ysabeau was. If she was a succubus and married to Trick, I can't believe that Trick could sustain her by himself. So I just don't think that Ysabeau was a succubus. The only other explanation is that one of Trick's parents was a blood sage, and the other a succubus (or incubus), and the succubus gene was recessive in Trick but was expressed when the genes were passed on to Aoife. This could also explain why Hale inherited the siren gene from his mother, who was a siren, but his sister inherited a recessive gene for stealing voices.

It does appear that most Fae have only one inherited power but it may be that one of their powers is so dominant that they never learned to use their other power. Bo didn't know that she had inherited her father's power to kill and then resserrect until her Dawning. Other Fae with only one power, like Dyson, had both parents being the same type of Fae, and in his case, both wolf shifters.
Suzanne Metaxas
358. SuzyM
@Earwin The way the writers wrote the story Lauren was using Bo to get Nadia back. She wasn't totally selfless in her relationship with Bo.

Dyson did care for Lauren. He was the one who got her out of the compound and let her have free time before he brought her back. In my opinion when he told her now was her chance to run in S2-13 it was more for her benefit than his own. Dyson's make up would not allow him to be so deceptive, he is too chivalrous as to be so devious.
Katherine Bloom
359. lsbloom
Given the writers complete lack of knowledge of genetics or basic biology and apparent ban on research, I am hesitant to ascribe any logic to their random mixture of science and fantasy. I'm not sure that it's ever been said that you only get your powers from one parent, although the Glaive did seem to think hiding her second power was unusual. But the most information we have about family traits, doesn't seem to bare out a one-to-one inheritance pattern. First, Aoife told Bo that one or both of her parents would need to be sex chi eaters and then went on to list a number of options, not just succubi. Second, we had the family in Fae Day, one brother feed off of greed, but the other attracted wealth--similar but not the same. Third, there is Hale, who "takes after his mother," while his sister also had a voice-related power, but was not a siren, and certainly didn't get her power from quick-moving daddy. So powers have not been shown to be exact, only that two fae parents are required for a fae to have any powers.

As with all the issues of "science" in this show, I vastly wish, they would stick to fantasy.
Katherine Bloom
360. lsbloom
@Earwin--Lauren's already proven herself a villian, in working with Taft, in operating on Dyson, in making Taft fae. They've built up the character to become a very dynamic villain, she is on the outside of what she wanted, she feels persecuted for her own decisions, she has resources and power and information right now to out the fae, make humans fae, fight against the system. It would give her a spine and something to do beside mewl and whine. As far as her being a doctor preventing her from hurting people, she's a very bad doctor and being a villain would wipe away all the egregious problems of her very unprofessional behavior (like operating on a helpless prisioner, participating in cross-species mutation exerimentation on unconsenting patients, using her position as a doctor to intimidate and coerce patients, groping patients, starting a relationship with a patient who continues under her care, etc). Regarding not having many options outside of that, they've passed up the chance to grow her as a character for over 30 episodes, I have little hope that they would finally get around to doing so now. The silly additions like Karen and Afghanistan, and turning Kenzi into the brat Lauren feels like she is, show me they don't know how to integrate her without trying to bend the rest of the show to her rather than her to it. I'm tired of waiting for them to figure out that they have to change the character to make her fit, not change the rest of the cast to being forced to accept her. Plus, personally, I have no desire to see her go back to her lab and spout absurdities ever again. So for me, it's villain or gone.
ernestine henry
361. Earwin
@NusiD: very impressive. You surely handle genetics, huh? I've just learnt about it last year. But suddenly I thought that what you say could happen only if genetics are the same in Lost Girl world than real world. It's very probably, because genetics in all current species known by humans work in the same way... I mean, dominant and recessive alleles, 50% DNA inheritance from each parent, the mere existance of DNA as we know it. We don't know very much about Fae genetics, but it's very very probably that it works they way we know, and what you explain should be applied.

@SuzyM: I'm so sorry, but I can't see that. I see Lauren loving Bo since the first time she saw her (Lauren says that out loud in 3x05 Faes Wide Shut when Bo was getting out of control, besides it was easily noticed how much Lauren liked Bo), loving Bo during S1 (she lied to her, yes, to protect her from loosing a new Fae War), loving Bo until Nadia appeared (there's no need for explanation. I wanna quote S2E1 when Lauren tells Bo "I heard you needed me. I came."), loving Bo while living with Nadia (it was noticed in her attitudes towards Bo and especially towards Nadia. It looked like Nadia became a heavy burden for her), loving Bo after Nadia's death (when they spent the night together in one of the last episodes of S2, Bo told Lauren "We're in this together", and the "You take my breath away" scene which was outstanding in my opinion), loving Bo since the beginning of S3 (no need for explanation), loving Bo even considering the hard development of their relationship (she betrayed Taft, saving directly or indirectly in the middle: the cabbit woman, Bo, Dyson, Tamsin and Aife, who was with Tamsin the last time we saw her; no mentioning of all the rest of people that were imprisoned by Dr. Isaac -who was a very handsome guy, physically meaning haha-). Lauren had like one hundred chances to run away, but she didn't. It's just that it looks so clear for me... Lauren tried by herself to solve the problem (Nadia's coma): she asked the Ash for help. And he put her in the dungeon as reply. She just accepted Bo's help. She had no one to whom ask for help but the Ash and Bo. Furthermore, Lauren never knew that it was Bo who actually saved her girlfriend.
I really hope that Dyson honestly cares for Lauren, that would make my heart happy. I loved the scene where he hugged her, I just forgot to put it into my list of favorite scenes. And I love how chivalrous he is, you're right on that. He's an old-school man, he deserves the best of the honors.
Suzanne Metaxas
362. SuzyM
@Earwin Lauren loving Bo from the beginning was a rewrite by the writers in 305. Lauren only saw Bo as a perfect specimin of her kind in S1-1 and that was it. The only reason that Lauren was attracted to Bo was becausse Bo succubused her.
ernestine henry
363. Earwin
@Isbloom: *sigh* I find your options too closed... People everyday do things that they -I should say "we"- find wrong or consider out of the limits of "the right thing", because we think they're not that bad and contribute to some other not-bad thing that we want/need. Everyone makes mistakes. She cannot be a villan because she's not the strong, leading character who says "I'm pissed off because you didn't give me what I wanted, so I'll kill you." She has all the resources, but she sticks to her feelings: she loves Bo and wouldn't harm her or the ones Bo loves, at least them, because I don't believe that Lauren would accept to hurt someone who doesn't deserve it. She didn't even harm Taft, she just cheated him. As a Doctor, she is the best like in the whole galaxy. You can't deny that her medical abilities are extraordinary. What you're questioning is her ethical aspect. Yes, she has disrespected the ethical aspect of her career. But, two things: who has been respecting ethic in the show? And then, what was she supposed to do? Say "hey, Taft, as I am a good doctor, I will not operate you and I will let you kill me, Bo and her friends and anyone else necessary until you find another doctor who can do this". She abused of her authority as a doctor because she had no other choices. And for Bo... Well, if I ever fall in love with my doctor or a customer, ethic goes to... hell and I don't let my love go away.
About working with Taft... She didn't know he was bad until she went there and spied his projects, and faced him. She thought he was the renowned and respected Dr. Isaac Taft, eminence among scientists.
And... Yes, the writers kind of screwed up her character, recconing her story in several ways. But I still don't find the possibility of turning her into a villan viable. Seems that writers have already found something to do with her, since Zoie Palmer has already been in set for S4. I hope it's something good.

@SuzyM: that's when I come to chemistry between Anna and Zoie or Bo and Lauren, but you might not see what I see on them, and that's totally ok. Bo only succubusted Lauren at the end of the first scene they shared and at the end of the couch scene where Lauren wore the pink sweater. Before, in the middle and after she didn't succubust her. And... The fact that it was a "rewrite" doesn't make it untrue (and if we talk about rewrites, the whole Nadia thing could have been a rewrite too). Because, well, we don't know what she was thinking at those times, right? I might be wrong, or not. That's what I saw and what was said in the episodes. We still have the rest of the story.
Katherine Bloom
364. lsbloom
@Earwin--Not all villains are dominant controlling personalities. A beta with chip on her shoulder is a very interesting direction for Lauren to continue in. How she told Taft not to count on Dyson living, how she crushed Bo unnecessarily in Taft's office. She can be ruthless. If, as you claim Lauren "loved" Bo from s1ep1, then she calmly ordered someone she cared about's death to protect the greater good. She told Bo to kill Nadia instead of sedating or treating or trying to help her. In fact, Lauren has hurt people, including hurting those Bo loves and those she loves. And while she didn't hurt Taft, she hurt Dyson in his stead. She hurt the cabbitt girl in her cell. She hurt Nadia by lying to her face and condoning her murder. She hurt Bo on a number of occassions. People are allowed to make mistakes without it making them a villain. And Lauren's mistakes don't make her a villain now, but they set her up to become a very intriguing villain if the writers had the guts to stick with the course they laid out.

Neverthelss, Lauren is not a good doctor, for the simple reason that the writers know nothing about the medical profession. So she turns away two patients who live with each other complaining of the same symptoms by attributing it to different causes that make no logical sense. She can't come up with a single useful thing to do with the naga venom or to help her girlfriend besides killing her which as a doctor should not have occurred to her to be a viable option. She ignores Vex when she is supposed to inject him and doesn't discover the oversight until much much later and then threatens an injured party to get what she wants, she doesn't even perform basic first aid on Kenzi or Vex during the final fight in season 2. Ethically she is even worse than she is functionally. So, unfortunately, I have to disagree with your assessment of her doctoring abilities. Which is why for me, her role as Bo's doctor and girlfriend have run their course for me. She has no relationship with anyone else on the team and no rational reason to come back to the fae she betrayed in a petulant little fit. I'll reconsider if the writers pull a rabbit out of their hat, but I have little faith that they will do so. I think they will simply reset what they have broken off screen and without explanation and leave the viewer to accept it or turn the channel in frustration.
ernestine henry
365. Char
@Isbloom--don't you mean a cabbit out of the hat! Hehehehe!!!

@Erwin-- Lauren does not have a mediical degree. I think she went to the medical school, and left to go to Wherever for some cloak and dagger medical secret mission and got caught up with less than stellar people. I see a pattern here with Lauren. She trusts people too easily. Then she got caught up with the Fae and then Taft.

it will be interesting to see what plays out in Season 4!
Marie Sullivan
366. Minime
WOW, I go to work for 14 hours and miss some good stuff.

@NusiD I am also assuming that the heart disease-curing substance that Lauren discovered

Lauren didn't discover anything she asked Taft what the substance was and where he got it, he replied China but Lauren knew he was lying because it was cells from a mature succubus' immune system, she thought they were Bo's and asked Dyson upon finding him in the cell if he saw Bo because Taft has her cells.

@LostGirlFan I'll say it one more time Bo seems to Love love Tamsin's Chi just saying. Tamsin doesn't have real chi, her chi is made by Mossimo the Druid. That is why it tasted different, it's Druid made. I do see an out with the writers, Bo could choose to inject chi she gets from Mossimo ending her need to feed.

@NusiD @Earwin: Sorry but you're both wrong in 1x02 Trick & Bo's conversation is this
Trick: Mother & Father's Names
Bo: Sam & Mary Dennis
Trick: No your real parent's
Bo: You tell me
Trick well we know they are both fae
Bo: how do you know that
Trick: Well children born of just one fae DO NOT have any fae abilities
Bo: Oh
Trick: well you will just have to remain a mystery, sign in

In The Mourning After Saskia/Aiofe fills in the rest of what we know about fae powers
Bo: So I never really thought that my mother could be a Succubus
Saskia: Or your dad could be an inccubus, fae genetic lineage is pretty complicated. One or both of your parent's are probably sex-chi eaters. But even then their is a bunch of variety Lilin, Yuki-onna, Rusalka…

It is never said that fae only inherit fae abilities from one fae parent and the introduction of several fae who are "hybrids" in season 2 shows that fae have powers from both parents.

So as for Ysabeau she was most likely a Succubus but she could have also been any sort of sex-chi eater. As for Hale from his father's attitude to him, men are not usually sirens so he must be rare and Dyson said that he was born into a family of shape shifters.

In season 3 Sandra C, one of the writers also was incharge of "consistency" her title is executive story editor.
Marie Sullivan
367. Minime
Oh as for my top scenes
1. All of season 1!!!!!!!
2. Dyson the guidance counselor
3. Lauren & Cayden in Broother Fae Wolf- Lauren OK that Cyaden just had sex with Bo but no OK that he just ate her "hot muffin" the best double entendre ever!!!!
4. The Shower scene from Scream a little Dream-Hello Hotness
5. Kenzi & Dyson's "wolves are lame" exchange and the Dyson & Bo hall talk, OK all of Delinquents even the gilly suit monster, except Lauren being beaten that was a bit too violent for me.
ernestine henry
368. Frostish
Bring back Team Badass! It's what got me so hooked on this in the first place--even if the plot has thickened, revisit the simplicity and fun of the relationships established.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
369. Kiersten
Hi @Frostish and Welcome! Thanks for leaving a comment

Team Badass all the way!! ;)
ernestine henry
370. LostgirlFan
@Earwin I would agree with everything that you said about all the characters you critiqued in post #355. You said that you weren't sure
of Tamsin's intentions as far as the gang goes though. IMO i'd say that
Tamsin definately wants to be part of the Happy Sunshine Gang, and she definetly wants to be a part of Bo's life in particular. She made an enemy in the Morrigan by protecting Bo when she with held info that could have gotten Bo killed. She did everything she could to not turn Bo into the wanderer, until of course her reluctants got Acacia killed.
She was so heart broken about the fact that she was going to have to hand Bo over to the wanderer that she totally started to unravel before everyone's eyes. The bathtub scene speaks for itself. She took a bullet for Bo, and when the guy who shot Tamsin was about to shoot Bo, she
forced the gunman to take his aim off Bo and put it back on too Tamsin. In the last scene when she had that blade up against Bo's throat she gave in and stood down when Bo told her too. I don't know if Tamsin is in love with Bo, but after all the evidence that has been shown i'd say that she is definetly not against Bo but is there to be her friend now. I don't know what this whole backstory that Tamsin has concerning Bo, but for some reason I think it may be a doosie? I hope that cleared up an reservations you may have had about Tamsin. I think she cares alot about Dyson, the rest of the gang well that remains to be seen how she gets along with them. I don't know how Tamsin's relationship is going to play out with Lauren. I guess it all depends on what kind of relationship evolves between Bo and Tamsin? I will say that Tamsin did go out of her way to act kinda cruel towards Lauren when she revealed the kiss in Brazenwood, even though the kiss was spurred on by the machine. I am not sure Tamsin knows the machine was in control of that kiss? She must have had some ulterior movtive for revealing that tid bit of knowledge to Lauren? I personally think she did it to undermine Bo and Lauren's relationship. That kind of action doesn't exactly scream friend to me but potential rival for Bo's affection, of course that is still to be determined. Also one of my favorite lines is also " Regret is for suckers " too :). Also Tamsin's line " Does anyone know where the mall is ? " that was pretty funny considering the circumstances her and Bo were in. " Dyson touched my Boob" in confaegion was also hilarious.

@Isbloom the writers and producers should stick to fantasy and stop confusing themselves with all this sciency stuff.

@Char you totally crack me up LOL!!!!!! post #365 is to funny and btw I agree Lauren is to trusting. I will say that she was very eager to get out from under the Fae's perverbial thumb, so I kind of couldn't really blame her. I will say that it was very interesting that she just took off without even telling Bo. It doesn't matter if they were on a break or broken up she at least owed her an explaination. She didn't have to tell Bo anything about Dr Taft, but she could have said this is what I am doing and I am sorry it had to turn out this way. We all know that the writers and producers are never going to write Lauren out of Bo's life but still. They kinda made Lauren look like a douche for just taking off like that. I am certainly not a doccubus fan but if I was I don't think I'd be happy with how they made Lauren look.

@Minime ya know you are totally right about Tamsin's chi. I guess I never took the time to consider that it may be Mossimo that is giving her such delicious chi. I always assumed it was because she was a Valkyrie but maybe not now. I think I will withhold judgement until after Tamsin dies and becomes powerful again with a new life cycle. If
her chi isn't as powerful even after she enters a new lifecycle then I guess you were right about it being Mossimo's special injections.

@Frostish hello nice to see you :).

@SuzyM I always assumed that Lauren's attraction to Bo was because Lauren is a lesbian I never knew it was because Bo put the Succubus juju on her are you sure? I must of missed the succubus juju scene?
Linda Losik
371. LindaL
@LostGirlFan: the juju can in the first episode when Bo was doing her best to get out of the lab! Bo did apologized to Lauren after she applied the juju; even Lauren thought that it was okay while she acknowledged that Bo had to try as they left the lab only to find Dyson there with cuffs.

To all: I am really liking the way the discussions are going. This is the type of discussion that I had hoped for on other sites that I have since left. Well done Kiersten!
Nusi Dekker
372. NusiD
@Minime: "Lauren didn't discover anything she asked Taft what the substance was and where he got it, he replied China but Lauren knew he was lying because it was cells from a mature succubus' immune system, she thought they were Bo's and asked Dyson upon finding him in the cell if he saw Bo because Taft has her cells."

How do you know that the substance that Lauren used were cells from a succubus immune system? I saw this series of events a whole different way, but I have the benefit of having been a research scientist for 40 years as a microscopist (now retired). They obviously have a science consultant on set to try and make Lauren's part somewhat realistic. Still, there are a lot of gaps.

Here is my take: Taft rigs the scientific award to be won by Lauren based on an obscure scientific paper she wrote years ago that no one else read. Lauren is at a very vulnerable time in her life and feels trapped, inadequate, and unhappy with her life in the Fae world, so when Taft offers her a job in his institute, she jumps at the chance to work in a completely human environment, away from anything Fae. I believe her when she has absolutely no idea that Taft is a human psychopath who has already murdered countless Fae and captured Aoife two years ago. I don't understand why she wasn't busy autopsying all the dead Fae from the killing field, but I guess that was a "writer's inconsistancy".

So then Lauren leaves her home and everything that has to do with Fae behind to live at the institute with a bunch of other scientists, which seems a bit hinky, but I guess they had to have a plot device to completely separate her from all the Fae, which she had to do to not accidently expose their existence to Taft.

So, then Lauren is in one of Taft's labs and runs an experiment. On a video screen supposedly attached to a microscope, we see a substance (probably some kind of enzyme) applied to a plaque-clogged artery and instantly removong the clog and allowing the blood cells to flow freely. (I was rolling my eyes at this, because you can't see something like that on the microscope setup Lauren was using) . The substance, supplied by Taft, was something that Lauren had probably tried before with no result, so that was why she was so surprised that it worked. Instead of being a human enzyme, though, it was Fae. It explains why Fae are so long-lived, they have this enzyme which prevents heart disease. But at that time Lauren had no idea that the enzyme could be Fae. Still, her success was too easy so she asked Taft where he got that enzyme, and when he said China, it raised some red flags in her, but still, I think she still believed he was not involved with Fae.

Later, she is in the lab working on her heart disease research, while other scientists are working on their own, different research. So goes over to the gal working at the next bench and asks to see what she is working on, and sees something definitely Fae in the microscope. So she swipes a tube of the substance to take a better look at it by putting a drop if it on a slide and is able to somehow identify it as containing succubus cells (more eyerolling). So NOW it dawns on Lauren that Taft is doing research on Fae but has no idea what until she steals the key card and finds the holding cells with Dyson, Aoife, and all the tortured Fae in them. Then, she realizes that she is screwed and sees Taft as a monsterous psychopath who has no qualms about killing anyone in his way. She had to do what she did to save everyone who was still alive because Taft and his henchmen would not hesitate to kill any Fae on a word. I do not think this makes Lauren a villian. Anyway, this is just my take...
Marie Sullivan
373. Minime
How do you know that the substance that Lauren used were cells from a succubus immune system?
@Nusi I know because Lauren SAYS to Dyson "Is Bo here? I recgonized cells from a mature succubus immune system." Also they have the China discussion before she looks at the other scientists work. It went like this:
1. Lauren cures heart disease (eyeroll)
2. They have champagne
3. while having champagne Lauren asks Taft where he got the substance and he replies China
4. Taft & Lauren walk and she hears the story of Gabriel(eyeroll)
5. Lauren alone in the lab with a random scientist decides to look at her work and then steals that workers ID card to snoop around the restricted areas
6. Lauren finds Dyson and asks him about Bo. Lauren knows it's a mature succubus because "she knows the genetics of her girlfriend"

I have no doubt that Taft rigged the Award.
I don't understand why she wasn't busy autopsying all the dead Fae from the killing field, but I guess that was a "writer's inconsistancy".
Lauren leaves with Taft at the same time they find the bodies.
Marie Sullivan
376. Minime
New EA interview from Comic-con

youtube.com/watch?v=a97gEBdX5g0
Nusi Dekker
377. NusiD
@Minime: I thought you said that the mature succubus cells were the substance that Lauren used to cure the heart disease, which wouldn't make sense because she would recognize them as succubus cells right away, and the plot of the story would be way shortened. I was saying that she didn't know about the mature succubus cells until after she stole the vial from the other scientist, right before she finds Dyson and asks about Bo. The substance she used to cure the heart disease had to be something Lauren couldn't recognize as Fae, so it could not be cells of any kind. Lauren was asking Taft where he got this "miracle substance" because there is no human substance that can cure heart disease. That is what I am trying to say.
Marie Sullivan
378. Minime
@Nusi I know that is what you are trying to say but your timeline is off. If you rewatch the episode you'll see that your breakdown of events is incorrect.

Here is what I saw and is backed up by the actual episode.
Lauren, all caught up in her new life and in a job that fulfills her "cures" heart disease on her first try with a substance that she doesn't know the origin of. All caught up in her science high she celebrates and then asks Taft "where did you get that from" He brushes her off and replies China then gives her a tour and tells her of Gabriel and drops hints the size of dump trucks that he knows about the fae. After the walk Lauren is suspicious and takes another look at the substance by stealing a vial and realizes what it is, she then steals the card and finds Dyson.

Lauren didn't create the "cure" otherwise she wouldn't have had to ask Taft where he got the substance from, she would know because the science would have been hers.

Just like Taft rigged the award he probably rigged the test to give Lauren a tease that they could change the world with science. After Lauren came down from her high and thought about it I am sure it probably hit her what she saw. After that she decided to investigate and found Dyson. Upon seeing Dyson she asks about Bo.
Nusi Dekker
379. NusiD
@Minime: I think our timelines are the same, but our interpretations are different. Thank you for explaining your point of view. I know that Lauren did not create the "cure" I'm sorry if I said that earlier. And of course Taft rigged the experiment. I just don't believe that the fluid that Lauren used to treat the heart disease was mature succubus cells, because I can't believe that Dr. Lauren Lewis would be that googly-eyed that she wouldn't recognize Fae cells when she sees them the first time, but that's just me. I mean, Taft rigged the whole "heart disease" scenario just to lure Lauren to his lab, as it had absolutely nothing to do with what was really going on there. Taft had to be really elaborate in order to fool Lauren so badly in the first place. Okay, so I'm a Lauren fan and I don't want to see her as the bad guy...
Marie Sullivan
380. Minime
@Nusi I don't think it makes her the bad guy it just shows how much she wanted out of her life with the fae. The fact that she would not notice right away considering in 3x04ish she snapped at Trick that she knows Bo's dna better then anyone goes to show how much she wanted Taft to not be the bad guy. I think she was honest with Bo about not being able to use her smarts and knowledge to help humans has left her unfulfilled. It's also true to her character that she is too trusting.

And YAY a jump to top button!!! Thanks redline !!!!
Katherine Bloom
381. lsbloom
I believe Lauren used a compound that was made from adult succubus cells to "cure" "heart disease" which she confirmed by looking at a slide and seeing inside a blood vessel. The serum that she started with and experimented was extracted from Aoife, but she only saw at an intermediate stage until she stole the vial from her lab partner after Taft acted all crazy pants.

I don't think Taft rigged the experiment, nor do I think that Lauren knew she was "curing" "heart disease" using succubus cells. I do think she felt unfulfilled in some ways by the fact that she hadn't been using her medical knowledge to help "her" people, because at that point she was very much not feeling a part of the fae world--she'd stripped all her ties but her tie to Bo, she didn't run the lab and have all her employees anymore, she'd lost both 1st and 2nd ashes who seemed to have befriended her, and Bo was so busy dealing with her own fae puberty and biology that Lauren was feeling left out. The us vs them mentality was being played out in how grateful Lauren was for the chance to help humans for once instead of fae.
ernestine henry
382. TheGardner
Ugh, we need a new thread this one is much to long now.

@SuzyM- I get that you love Dyson, but seriously the man has flaws and Lauren is not a monster. They have both behaved selfishly and done some shitty things to Bo, as she has to them, but it seems like you overlook anything negative he does and pounce on Lauren. Dyson is not so noble that telling the competition for his mate to get out of Dodge is against his make-up.
Suzanne Metaxas
383. SuzyM
@LostGirlFan I am very sure Bo succubused her :) I've watched S1-1 many many times :) You se Bo put her hand on Lauren and the red light pulses. Lauren even says she knows she is doing it to her and Bo askes Lauren if she wants her to stop and she says no. :D
Katherine Bloom
384. lsbloom
It really is. He is a fair, straightforward guy. Doing something with those sorts of devious motives in such a ingenuous way isn't in his character. When he was pissed at Lauren he came out and said it. Same with Bo. He punches first and asks questions later, he isn't a passive aggressive sneak.

Plus, he was being honest. Lauren had been trying to leave. She had her bags packed and one foot out the door. If she wanted to go, that was her chance. If his suggestion had been a lie, I might be more inclined to agree with the read on the situation that he only wanted Lauren out of the way, but it wasn't. Acting as though Lauren hadn't been thinking of leaving is absurd. In the end, the writers needed to bring her decision to stay into the text of the story. Bo couldn't say it. Hale couldn't say it. Kenzi wouldn't say it. They put the line on Dyson, and I personally don't think ever thought that the ---- doccubus fans would draw and quarter him for it.

Dyson's done crappy things. But what doccubus is constantly getting pissed at him for aren't those things for me. They mainly hate his noble, masculine qualities, and I appreciate him for those.
Nusi Dekker
385. NusiD
@Minime: Yeah, it would seem that Lauren knows Bo's DNA and cell structure like the back of her hand. I just find it too hard to believe that she could not recognize the mature succubus cells as soon as she saw them, is all. I completely agree with everything else you said about Lauren, though.

Yeah, I do like the "jump to bottom" button too!
Suzanne Metaxas
386. SuzyM
@TheGardener Yes I LOVE Dyson :) never denied that. Everyone has flaws, I personally think that his is that he is too noble at times. "I don't like it, but I respect it." I truly think that his character takes the high road when ever he can, the only expecption to that is when he lost his ability to love, then he was a dumbass. When he told Lauren to leave while she could he had his love back and wasn't being a dumbass but just pointing out to her if she really wanted to go now was her time. Unfortunately the writers haven't given me much to like Lauren for which I really don't like. The closest I've come to liking the Lauren character is the closing scene in S3-10 in the bar.

Yet I will confess I'm am solidly in Dyson's corner :)
Carmen Pinzon
387. bungluna
I keep coming back to the fact that we spend an inordinate amount of time discussing everyone but Bo. This indicates to me that the writers of the show have lost sight of the fact (imo) that Bo is the heroine, the Lost Girl of the title.

Bo has been all over the place. She started as a 'serial killer' with a heart of gold who didn't want to turn her back on her humanity. She was naive in a way that sort-of contradicted her 10 years on the lam but was relatable. Dyson was her 'first love' in the sense that she was able to have a relationship with him (read sex) without killing him. What a thrill!

In Season 2 she started unravelling as a character. Is she the savior? Is she the harbinger of the end of days? Can the show make up it's mind, please?

Then in Season 3 she's kind of pushed aside as a heroine in favor of her role as a half of the wonderland that is Doccubus.

I feel she has become more of a charicature as the show progresses. I would love for the writers to concentrate on developing Bo. I know it's not going to happen, but as she stands right now, she feels like a sorry excuse for a heroine and a lousy friend and lover.
Suzanne Metaxas
388. SuzyM
@bungluna I agree with everything you said about Bo's character. That is another thing I hate about DL/Bo relationship is I think Lauren kept Bo for growing as a Fae. Bo has to come to terms with the fact that she is Fae and decide how she is going to deal with it.
Marie Sullivan
389. Minime
@Bungluna how about the fact that the only thing we say about Kenzi is "she should not become fae" I posted a link with an interview with EA and she said she loved how Bo, Kenzi & Lauren are so 3D and loves writing for them however both Bo & Kenzi were MIA in MY opinon.

While they had tons of screen time they were sadly lacking in any way that felt real or relevant. I personally felt Tamsin, Stella, Dyson, Lauren and Tafts presence this season plus Aiofe was show stopping in her thin line between crazy and sane but Bo & Kenzi were not "present" even though they were onscreen.

I understand that we will see a ton more of Bo fighting this season as her stunt double has tweeted from the set several times but overall I don't think that will make her more impactful if she is just fighting more. I want to feel that Bo & Kanzi are present in their worlds and not just standing next to the person who is doing all the heavy lifting. The Norn rash storyline fizzled IMO as did Bo trying to be monogamous and her dawning. I yearn for the Bo & Kenzi of season 1 who were active in choosing the life they wanted to live. Plus I miss Kenzi speaking russian and talking about her cray cray extended family.
Carmen Pinzon
390. bungluna
Bo often reminds me of the Monty Python character Brian. She's in the right place at the right time but somehow misses being the heroine of her own story. In S1 she at least did the fighting with a little help from her friends. In S2 the Garuda thing was a big mess, imo, and did nothing to further Bo as an epic heroine. And y'all know what my feelings are about S3, so I'll skip being redundant.

I want to see Bo come into her own as a Fae. If this means leaving the humans behind for a while, so be it. But enough with the soft-core sex and the endless emo-drama. Lets see some real character development and action, as well as some well-thought-out wold development, please! A bit of adult communication wouldn't hurt either.
Nadine Robb
391. cmm
@Minime Yes I agree with this:
I yearn for the Bo & Kenzi of season 1 who were active in choosing the life they wanted to live. Plus I miss Kenzi speaking russian and talking about her cray cray extended family
I miss season 1 also. I too feel like the writers have lost sight of things. Personally I'd like to know more about Kenzi's life. Its been 3 years and all we know is as you said she has a crazy family. But we still havne't really seen the circumstances regarding her leaving her home. Yes, her mother loved her father more (according to Kenzi), but other than that nothing. I would also love for the triangle of doom to be left out this season. I know people would like Bo and Dyson back together, but in all honesty I dont' think it will ever happen. So I would rather Bo just discover more about her past along with Kenzi. Kenzi, to me, is the only constant in her life. While Dyson and Lauren are both fighting over Bo and who should be with her, Kenzi never does that. She's a friend without demanding to keep Bo strictly for herself.
Nusi Dekker
392. NusiD
I too hope that Kenzi gets treated better in s4. She really got the short shrift in the beginning of s3 when Bo was constantly with Lauren shutting out Kenzi to the point of not even noticing when Kenzi went missing. Then right after that Kenzi was shut out of Bo's pre-Dawning training, and on top of that Hale shut her out too. No wonder she wants to become Fae. She feels that it's the only thing that will keep her in Bo's world.

Some speculation: About Kenzi's family...does Kenzi know who her father is? We know that her mother remarried some douchebag who abused Kenzi (by locking her in a closet) so Kenzi ran away from home. What if Kenzi's real father is The Wanderer, who impregnated Kenzi's mom in a chance meeting in the Russian steppes or something? Kenzi would not be Fae, but it would explain her fierce love and loyalty for Bo. She has risked her life for Bo since the very beginning. She also risked her life to save Dyson from the Garuda's thugs even though he had been acting like an ass. She has an unhuman-like affinity for the Fae. Maybe it's in her DNA. I would love it if we met Kenzi's mom in s4 and it turns out to be Mia Kirschner. They both rock the black hair and blue eyes, just saying. Can't be any worse than the theory that Tamsin is Bo's half-sister.

As much as I shipped Doccubus in s2, it became obvious pretty early into s3 that it was not going to work. I can't see then getting back together as lovers. First they have to stop lying to each other all the time. Half of the problems with their relationship would be solved with being honest with each other. But I don't know if Bo would throw herself back into Dyson's arms before somehow addressing her conflict with Lauren. So at this point I have no idea who Bo's sexual partner will be in s4.
Nadine Robb
393. cmm
@NusiD You are a person after my own heart. I have speculated that Kenzi may have fae roots. not sure if her father would be the wanderer but, it would explain a lot. Hence all the "you could be fae" to Kenzi last season. But alas, I'm not sure the writers are that imaginative when it comes to storylines.
Annie Moore
394. drusilla_doll
I only just discovered this thread after being away on vacation. I've had a hugely pleasant afternoon catching up on other people's discussions. I may have to reread the entire thread and jot down my replies that way as there is so much to digest and ponder over. Keep up the awesome discussion!
ernestine henry
395. Char
@Minime--Not a fan of that YouTube video. For someone who hates labels, there were some labels directed at the men but not the ladies. Thanks for the shirtless Dyson, the fabulous Hale, and the noble Trick. And I hate labels. Being bullied in high school, I hate labels. But when you have a group of people who are Internet bullies because they like a particular ship, label them as if those characters are 1 person, then accept the behavior, who really is the bully. The ones who do the bullying or the ones who watch and do nothing. BTW: I would never Compare Lost Girl to Buffy. Maybe Xena, thats a huge Maybe. Because Xena had an amazinh enemy called Callisto. Everyone on Buffy are amazing, even the bad ones, especially Drusilla and Darla. I have yet to see a villain like that on Lost Girl! While the Morrigan is good, she is not great. But thank you EA for writing about Bo-the hero who was not really the hero. Thanks for Kenzi-right hand man, in 5 episodes with Bo(slight exaggeration) to meet a Druid to make her a possible Fae. Thanks for Lauren, who is really Karen, who is a Dr?, my head is spinning! Must lie down. But before I lie down, I must say that I did not like Battlestar Gallactica. Don't hate me.

Allright, I'm up! Had to watch Original Skin. Restored my faith in Lost Girl. That was close.

@NusiD and Minime--Is Lost Girl fantasy or science fiction? Not sure, but the science fiction is not working for me. I mean of you wanna mix genetic fiction in the mix, all you gotta do is keep the story consistent. In Star Trek:TNG, whenever the warp core was going to blow up, Data and Geordia would talk about core rupture, press the buttons, help the alien, and Warp core saved. All in a hard days work. It wasnt specific where an astro physicist would be not gonna work but not so generic where you are looking at the screen like really, my kid could have done that. Lost Girl needs to pick a genre and stick with it.

@bungluna--did you ever play the video game Fable from Xbox. Short story short, the character chooses and it decides if he becomes goo, neutral or evil. The story stays the same, the game ends the same way but how the characters react to your choices, changes your decisions. Yes, Bo is the hero but maybe how the characters react to her choices, changes her decisions. Season 3 was more to me about the other characters and how they are influencing Bo's behavior. Maybe that's why we don't talk about Bo?

@TheGarner--Lauren told Bo in Season 1 she could do better, meaning Bo could do better than Dyaon. No one has behaved like a gentleman or lady. But Dyson stepped back in Season 3 for Bo and Lauren. Yes, Bo needs to worry about her life and not get back with Dyson. Did y'all not hear, Dyson will wait. I'm waiting with you Dyson!:)

@cmm--There is so much material that Lost Girl has, did we really need the Garuda, or Taft? We could have battled Kenzis parents, the Morrigan, how about redoing the HH, reading up on some Fae Mythology, working on Some Dark Fae cases, strolling through the Underworld and paying a fine on their parking tickets..so much material.

Going to lie down, rest my eyes and respond in 12 hours. Who am I kidding!! When I wake up!
Katherine Bloom
396. lsbloom
@Char--Ever since Andras' the only thing fans want from Dyson is shirtless scenes, I try to avoid her interviews. I learned a hard lesson from Battlestar (which I did love :-)), sometimes showrunners are idiots who get lucky and it is better to not know what they thought or planned. Whedon is really the only one I'll listen to anymore with regularity.

Lost Girl is so self-conscious at this point that labels or no, nothing is just the way it is. Once you invite fan meta in the way they have, they can't escape the fan labels on everything. You can't have an entire episode where you rewrite history for a coming out storyline and still pretend you aren't activley trying to sell a label. If you want to watch a show that does LGBT as no big deal, I suggest Teen Wolf.

I miss Bo and Kenzi. The absence of that core friendship and support really hurt the show for me. Bo getting focused on her dawning or thinking that saving people's lives was more important than petri dishes didn't bug me. Bo being so caught up in her love life that she didn't know that Kenzi wasn't Kenzi was just awful. The end of the season was definitely better than the beginning. Because they better nail Kenzi's pretty little Pradas to Bo's side and keep her there.

For me, Bo wasn't intriguing as as character because she was a bad ass. She wasn't. She fought and struggled and needed help and took it. She screwed up, she was vulnerable. "I'm awesome and invincible" isn't very interesting to me. And strong women on genre shows tend to be very aggressive, point-proving kind of characters--and I'm really hard on those characters. The great part of Starbuck, besides the fact that she'd go punch for punch with the big boys, was she was inherently a screw up and she knew it. If all it had been was she is strong and rocks and fights her own battles, she would have been isolated and not very approachable. Bo isn't that. She's interdependent. That's why I'm not so concerned with her being the big bad hero. She needs her gang. Even Buffy knew that. But maybe that's because Whedon is very smart, not just lucky.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
397. Kiersten
For someone who hates labels, there were some labels directed at the men but not the ladies. Thanks for the shirtless Dyson, the fabulous Hale, and the noble Trick.

I immediately pinged on that statement from EA and the, once again, insult to Dyson (and by extension, his fans) that his value and place in this world hinges on his being unclad. Hale is fabulous (he is) Trick is noble (I would've gone with "wise" there) and Dyson is...shirtless. The man offered up his very identity and wound up losing his heart out of love for Bo and all she can come up with is "shirtless." Nice.
Marie Sullivan
398. Minime
I thought that EA was extremely honest in that interview. To me that is how she see's the show and it takes me back to the discussion we had about the homage to Caged Heat. In the episode she was pandering to a section of the audience and from her view THAT IS the audience they are seeking out. I plan to watch season 4 but if the show follows along with what she said in this interview I don't think I will stick around for the entire season. I am not interested in more of her version of "3D" women because frankly Bo, Kenzi & Lauren are far from it, IMO. I am also not interested in more "shirtless Dyson, fabulous Hale or noble Trick". I simply want my sunshine gang solving crimes, drinking heavily, and playing pool in no particular order.

To me the most alarming thing she said was "Oh they did that on Buffy or BSG so we can't do that" because that shouldn't even be a consideration. They should just write great stories and not be concerned with what others are doing or have done. As an artist I would never be able to make quality work if I said oh well x did something like that so I can't do that. In the end it's all been done before, it's how you make it your own.


PS I personally think that comment has to do with the darkWillow and DL story lines. We can't have DL going mad scientist because Buffy had darkWIllow after Tara died.
Marie Sullivan
399. Minime
Oh and lets be honest about the labels thing, EA didn't create the LG world, she didn't come up with the show rules including no labels ML did. Here an a great interview with ML http://www.rgbfilter.com/?p=10538 and to me shows the difference with the two showrunners.
ernestine henry
403. LostgirlFan
Wow so many posts being generated not complaining though it's a good thing :).
@Drusilla_doll nice to see you I just joined this blog not to long ago myself just happened to stumple upon it. Everyone here is pretty nice and respectful so I think you'll like it.

@LindaL thanks for the clarification of Bo's putting the juju on Lauren. SuzyM told me in a post about the scene on the couch
were Bo put her hand on Lauren's arm. Bo asked is she wanted her
to take her hand off and Lauren said no, so in my mind Bo wasn't
trying to be shady about it she did ask Lauren if she wanted her to
stop. Good I certainly was hoping that Bo wasn't trying to over run
Lauren's will with her succubus juju.

@NusiD and Minime that was a pretty good exchange about Lauren and the Fae DNA, and the time lines I enjoy it. Remind me not to get
into a debate about microscopes and DNA with you NusiD. If it matters at all I don't feel that Lauren was trying to do anything nefarious. Hope I spelled that right? She's was looking for a way out of the Fae world and the evil Dr Taft supplied it for her. Jeez I can't believe that I am defending Lauren but yeah I gotta call it as I see it.

@Minime I think that ML is a way better showrunner than EA. Season 1 has been the best season so far and ML was the showrunner then. I have to say that I am disappointed with how the producers and showrunners are running things. They've put a gag rule on not just Lauren's character but on my Tamsin as well. I personally think it's ridiculous because I don't think it's going to hurt much if you give your audience a tib bit here and there about the up and coming season.

@Isbloom you made some great points Bo's interdependence. Now that I think about it she isn't this overwelming force to be reckoned
with. She needs her buddies help alot just like Buffy did and that is
perfectly fine with me. Also I think the LG's writers and producers
are just insecure. They all know the score when it comes to the ratings.
They can't afford to offend or turn off anyone, because they always
never seem to get far enough in the ratings to get comfortable. In a way I think that is good cuz it makes them realize every season could be the last. On the down side they pander way to much to the fans i.e. to the doccubus crowd. No offence to my new doccubus friends here but they do pander to your ship way more than anything else.

@Bugluna I was totally digging what you said in Post # 390 spot on. :)
ernestine henry
405. LostgirlFan
Sorry guys for the double posts my bad !!! :(
Christopher Morgan
406. cmorgan
No problem LostgirlFan, I'll take care of it. :)
Carmen Pinzon
408. bungluna
I'm not saying that Bo needs to turn into some kick-a$$ hardcore heroine, but I would like her to learn from her mistakes and become a more organized heroine. Witness the end of S3, I mean, really? That's the best y'all can come up with? It seems to me that the writers can't make up their mind and just throw Bo into situations and then use whatever ansillary character du jour to get her out of whatever mess.

I hate characters who don't learn from their past actions; it's a pet peeve of mine.
Suzanne Metaxas
409. SuzyM
@LostGirlFan I wasn't talking about the couch scene I was talking about S1-1 When she was examining her. There was no attraction between them in that scene. DL was looking at her as a speciment and Bo was succubusing her to try and escape. There was not chemistry in that scene :)
ernestine henry
410. Char
@LostgirlFan--Dang work is trying to make me work. But seems I have some time. I love humor. I love Kiersten's recap because they are hilarious. Like Whoo! I try to be funny too. So yes, I see why Lauren left but with Taft. She could have gone anywhere but she chose Taft. Ok, so she left with Taft knowing that he knows she is Karen, how can you trust someone like that! and then how mature are you to leave your cell phone. For me, it means my guard is up. Forever up! Not trusting you with your amazing champagne and curing heart disease. Nope not me. But if we had a past look at Lauren, then I might change my mind.
ernestine henry
411. LGfaen1
This may be a little off-topic and I apologize in advance if my post is not in par with comments guidelines but I am so SICK of these continuous accusations towards Rachel Skarsten about her supposed homophobia. I have no doubt this started as a result of her choosing Team Dyson and the mere fact she is a Christian, if you believe she is because of that fine it's your opinion but going as far as to judge her for one of her pastor's sermon from 7 years ago I find ridiculous. I don't do guilt by association and until Rachel Skarsten makes a statement regarding this matter, I will not hold her responsible for other people's opinions. I am even more appaled to find out how a FEW people in this fandom are calling out for her to be recast or fired from Lost Girl based on some speculation.
Again, I apologize if this is completely off topic but I needed to rant. I won't be offended if my post is removed.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
412. Kiersten
Hi @LGFaen1 - thanks for the comment. I'm not sure though exactly to what you're referencing regarding any accusations toward Rachel Skarsten re: any alleged homophobia and I am unaware of the specifics you mentioned in your post.

Here at Heroes & Heartbreakers, we've never made any such accusation, nor do I recall any being posted by any commenters. I also have zero recollection of any fans who regularly post at H&H calling for RS to be recast or fired from LG. We have, from time to time, had one- or two-off commenters who have expressed dislike for Tamsin (usually due to how she may impact the doccubus relationship), but I don't recall the extremity you appear to have experienced.

If I missed something along any of these lines, please do point it out to me as I'd like to rectify that immediately.

Personally, I admire Rachel Skarsten greatly and have enjoyed the fresh energy she's invested into Lost Girl. I was thrilled to hear her contract was renewed and look forward to how Tamsin's story plays out through S4.

FTR, we don't delete comments at H&H simply because we may not agree with the stated opinion. In general, so long as your contribution is respectful of and without personal attack on other posters, you are welcome to share. Or, as our official FAQ page puts it:
Comments of an inflammatory or threatening nature may be wholly or partially deleted at the Community Manager's discretion.
I encourage all of you to visit the FAQ page of Heroes & Heartbreakers if you have any further questions regarding posting policies.
ernestine henry
413. LGfaen1
I am sorry to not have been more specific I did not mean to say it was being done here. I saw all of this comments on tumblr in the Lost Girl and Rachel Skarsten tag and was directed to two forums where those things were being said. This just felt like a safe place to rant. I apologize for the confusion.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
414. Kiersten
@LGfaen1 - absolutely no problem.

You are correct, this is a "safe" place to rant, and I'm glad you felt comfortable doing so right off. If you take the time to scroll through the (admittedly many) comments just on this post, you'll see ranting is practically a requirement. ;)

I merely wanted to make sure it stayed that way by ensuring I hadn't missed negative contributions as you described without addressing them. I'm please to hear you didn't experience any of it here at H&H and hope you'll continue to comment.
Christopher Morgan
415. cmorgan
Hey guys, just so you folks know. To make things just a little smoother navigation wise, we've added a "Jump to Top" and "Jump to Bottom" button in your comments. These will take you to the very top and bottom of our comment sections.

You should be able to see these whether you have an account or not. We are working on streamlining things even more for you guys so stay tuned. And keep giving us feedback on what would make things easier.
ernestine henry
416. LostgirlFan
@LGfaen1 I too have seen the hate thrown at Rachel S. and find it extremely disturbing and baseless. This forum is a safe place to rant
so please feel free. I am a Valkubus fan so I'll probably be right there
with you, as long as it's done in a respectful manor as Kiersten has
pointed out :).

@Char sorry to hear the work thing has gotcha all busy and such. Yeah I love a humorous posts as well, and don't mind giving kudos when it's deserved :). You know the whole thing about leaving the cell phone could be 1 of 2 things for me. Either she subconsiously wanted Bo to find her, or secondly she knew with gps that she would be tracted? Lauren is way to trusting and a bit naive for my taste. She is the exact opposite of Tamsin.Those two are polar opposites it seems. I do agree that perhaps some peoples perceptions of Lauren would change, and make her a more sympathetic character if we knew more about her back ground, so yeah that is a good call on your part :). Oh and I am totally the same way I don't trust easily myself. I don't just give away
my trust you have to earn it.

@SuzyM sorry my bad I seemed to be remembering the wrong scene as you have pointed out, so thanks for the clarification Suzy :).

@Bungluna I agree with you. I don't know what in the world was going through the writers mind in episode 13. On the other hand I got to more of my Tam Tam so I hesitate to cry foul to much LOL! Bo just seemed like she was just along for the ride. Having said all that though I can say that Tamsin did get the job done alot quicker and alot less mess by just using her Valkyrie powers. I think what would have been better is if the writers had Bo and Tamsin fight their way into the compound instead of allowing themselves to get caught. There would have been alot more action and alot less standing around. I am curious if other people here have any more thoughts on that?

@cmorgan thanks for deleting that duplicate post :).
ernestine henry
417. LostgirlFan
@cmorgan yes I did notice that and thank you for that. It is a shame that you can't place a reply under each post. That would make things alot easier but I think Kiersten already explained why that was not possible. Since you deal with many shows and not just LostGirl I also understand that it's probably not that easy to have many different threads just for one show, but that's okay I still like coming here to talk :).
Kiersten Hallie Krum
418. Kiersten
The way ZP played DL leaving her cell phone behind, she was definitely, without question, making a firm choice that she did NOT want to be called or located. By leaving it behind, the GPS could not be tracked to her and she wouldn't be suceptible to being drawn back by Bo's calls. Dyson and Tamsin had to go into their cop resources to download her call list and then trace Taft's number to find her. The doc did everything she could think of to tell the Fae (and Bo) to get lost and leave her alone, most glaringly by breaking up with Bo in the first place.

The very last thing I would call DL is naive and/or too trusting. She makes choices, often bad ones, often for what she thinks is right or should be right no matter what other people (like Bo) are telling her they actually want. Walking her behavior and choices back to try and retcon her into a more sympathetic character is one of the many things that made S3 such a train wreck season. Either she's an eco/med terrorist who's done (dodgy) combat medicine in Afghanistan and the Congo or she's a naive, trusting patsy who can't take care of herself in the big, bad Fae world. The characteristics that make up those two extremes cannot co-exist. She couldve been naive etc when she started out, sure, but her experiences could have burned those weaker aspects out long ago or they wouldve if there was any consistency to her character.

It's telling to me that in an interview at SDCC, ZP noted that DL's character has always been and yet remains undetermined, that to her, DL could still be both either ally and/or antagonist to Bo and the Fae. That she too has yet to be able to nail that down and continues to explore that question as she plays DL.
ernestine henry
419. Lainer
Wonderfully written article that expresses my opinion fully. Every point that you made is exactly how I felt through the 3 seasons as they transpired. Frustrating as hell too. The writers need to deliver more of season 1 dynamics and less of this whole Garuda, Dawning boring crap. It was lackluster and limp in its writings. I wonder if they've changed writers since season one?

Exporing more of the dynamic between the humans and Fae and the whole backstories on each character would be much more interesting. A lot of this writing seems like it was slapped together, a bandaid. Sloppy at best. They need to write less predictable stories and get really down and dirty into each character. Allow the women in the show to be STRONG and not so whiny and needy. Watch the full season of "The Fall" with Gillian Anderson to grasp what I'm saying. Gillian's character is 3 steps ahead of all of her male characters and much smarter. Oh, and women don't need to be saved. Let Bo do the saving for the most part. She is supposed to be this big deal fae and now this Wanderer father is in her life. It weakens her character. Bo needs to be her own strong, character, and I wouldn't mind her and Tamsin getting together because she is the only one who accepts her for her duality. Make them both stronger.

Make Lauren a hard core bitch who tries to stop the fae by making her own Fae with Dyson's stolen DNA sample. She should be a human ash. She was too needy and whiny with that ridiculous part of Bo's girlfriend. The coma girlfriend was boring, and lackluster. The part where Bo just kills her with the knife was porrly written. The build up wasn't enough to warrant a stabbing. It wasn't believable. It was ricidulous. She could have taken a Tums and got rid of the Garuda. Just a terrible scene.

They don't have enough of Hale in the show. He has a lot to offer, if they'd utilize it. Love Kenzi. She is the best actor there, but they should make her stronger and funnier. Bring her Russian family into this. Maybe they could discover that she is Fae, but just didn't know it. Maybe all it takes is to look into her past to see this? She should become very strong, very Fae, and then have a falling out from Bo, because Bo has taken a darker side, and Kenzi is still for the human race?

Bring Bo's mother back. When she is strong she is a great character. When they made her weak, it was invalidating and insulting to your women audience. Bring back Linda Hamilton, without her hand. Say she got away, and then she hooked up with Tamsin to bring out a storyline about their past. Develop the characters more. You jump from outside threats to outside threat and never develop the characters. It's NOT believable and boring. The writers start to delve into one of the main characters only to pull back and the story loses traction. Follow through and develop the stories. like I said, I think the writers have changed since season one.

I love the witty insults that fly throughout the show. Keep those coming.

And thus ends my rant to the writers, but you expressed it so eloquently in your article. Maybe the powers-that-be from the Lost Girl cast will read the article and the comments.

I normally become extremeley bored with TV series. They are usually dumbed down predictable shows for the masses. Lets' try to make it worth watching. Season one was a good start.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
420. Kiersten
@Lainer - thanks for the comment, and for the kind comments about the original post.

A return to the strengths of S1 would be welcomed with enough evolution of the characters not to retread old ground. Would love to see that. That's the show I fell in love with and have hung in there all this while with the desperate hope that Lost Girl might someday return to the qualities that made that first season so great.
ernestine henry
421. LostgirlFan
@Kiersten it is hard to argue with anything that you said. I suppose I just assumed that DL was naive and to trusting of Taft, but perhaps out of her desperation she did just make a bad decision?

@Lainer not sure if you are new or not but just in case you are new
welcome :).
ernestine henry
422. Lainer
Bring back Vex. Forgot to mention that. They need to hook up Kenzi and Vex. I don't think Hale is a good match for Kenzie. He isn't dark or meaty enough in character at this point. Vex needs to be a bad ass again, but with a heart.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
423. Kiersten
@LostGirlFan - I think she did trust Taft, to be sure, but then he gave her every reason to. He played her right and good, but that's not necessarily because she was naive. Had he leveled that same game against Bo or anyone else - hitting them at the exact moment they're most vulnerable by offering exactly what they've been longing for but just hadn't yet admitted it to themselves - I think any one of them wouldve gotten played (maybe not Kenzi ;)). Add to that what had been building with Bo and then their breakup and then Hale not giving her what she felt he owed her, she was primed for a human White Knight to come calling. But she still made her own choices and cemented them by making sure to the best of her ability that she couldnt be (easily) found by any Fae and then the consequences of those choices played out. Badly.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
424. Kiersten
@Lainer - that, at least, we know for sure. Vex is definitely back and, I think, more involved than ever before. Can't wait to see that!
Marie Sullivan
425. Minime
@Lainer yes the creator/writer/showrunner from season 1 left after 2x02, she returned to write Delinquents in season 3 but no word of her writing anything in season 4.
She could have taken a Tums and got rid of the Garuda. Just a terrible scene.
Love this line and also a big hello to LGfaen1 I love the name.

For people who are not sure what LGFaen1 is talking about it had to do with the RS interview that is posted in this thread. She talks about having to tell the producers in her screen test that she was OK with kissing girls and she got a ton of heat for saying she was on Team Dyson and she doesn't want a Bo/Tamsin romance. Apparently only KHR can be on team Dyson and if anyone else doesn't support docutopia by "carrying the mantle" then they are heteronormative or homophobic. The same went for the 16 year old actress who played/is playing???? teen Tamsin the apparently tweeted things that can be seen as homophobic and a small section of fans tried to get her fired.
Marie Sullivan
426. Minime
I understand that their is another part to that video I posted with EA and the other producer lady talking about getting the gang back together after they have all been split up and finding Lauren and a return to the triangle and Bo "deciding who she loves and wants to be with", has anyone seen this or have a link?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
427. Kiersten
I saw it and it wasn't quite that clear. She was saying that those could be all aspects of what's coming and that when the season starts, first its Dyson and Kenzi et al trying to find *Bo* and for at least 1 episode, having to handle the changes in the state of Fae without knowing where/how she is. The question of where DL is and how she returns is very carefully not being directly addressed. ZP suggested that DL is going to have to figure out what her place is in the Fae world now if indeed she still wants to have one or can have one. EA definitely did says "deciding who she loves and wants to be with" but if I remember right, that was more about Bo's overall journey than specifically about what happens in S4. Also, EA likes to taunt the extreme fandoms and watch them meltdown over the teases she gives, so...

Overall, there's a general consensus that, having been split to the winds, the Faemily does need to reconnect and rebond in the beginning of S4 but that's hardly a surprise as one of the last things Bo said was that she needed to find Kenzi and Dyson and get them all together again. In that same scene, she admitted to not knowing where DL was and, from her resigned, fatalistic delivery given what had transpired the last time she saw DL, it's clear that finding DL wasn't her first priority. She sent Tamsin to retrieve Dyson and went to find Kenzi. It makes sense that, after they all went kablooy in one way or another after that, each of them would want to soildify the ranks, so to speak, first thing in S4.

There's been a lot of hints that the state of the Fae has changed, that something has drastically altered all of them, and I'm beginning to wonder if there might be a time jump between when Bo, Dyson and Tamsin are taken and when they each return to the modern world.
Marie Sullivan
428. Minime
EA definitely did says "deciding who she loves and wants to be with" but if I remember right, that was more about Bo's overall journey than specifically about what happens in S4.
Ahhh OK so it wan't about the triangle, I read that as was like what???? The triangle is so low on my list of what I'd like to see in season 4 but it makes sense that it could mean anything from being with Kenzi vs the Fae to her Father in his alternate relm vs The Sunshine Gang. That's why I wanted to see it because I think some people are taking it out of context.


I agree that a time jump makes sense and that Dyson is returned immediately and hooks up with Vex, Hale & Kenzi and DL goes off to "get happy" or deal with her PTSD or live in her mansion and science things. Dyson can clear the way for DL to return because "she saved him and all the captive fae with her ingenious plan to turn Taft Cabbit and set Dyson free to kill him" (eye roll) while Bo & Tamsin return a few months later to a brave new world. From KS's twitter feed it looks like they are filming outside a lot :) I love when they go outside.

I do hope they address Kenzi wanting to be fae onscreen and she gets talked off the proverbial ledge by our handsome trio of Kenzi loving fae (Dyson, Hale & Vex)!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
429. Kiersten
For certain, the season begins with Hale, Kenzi & Dyson doing awesome things. Ksenia said they had one stunt or something that nobody was sure they could do and the three of them did it & it was awesome. At the time, the three of them were tweeting one another about the awesome job done by all. I Can Not Wait to see what it was all about
ernestine henry
430. LostgirlFan
@Kiersten and Minime now this is what I really love. I love to speculate how each season is going to start off. The cast and producers always give you little tid bits here and there to get all the talk started. At the end of the season I always thought that it would be Bo, Dyson, and Tamsin waking up somewhere in the Wanderer's lair. From what it sounds like Dyson will be kept separate from Bo and maybe Tamsin? They have had such a gag rule on anything about Tamsin and DL that there is no telling where those two come in? Will Tamsin wind up with Bo, or will she and Dyson end up together and go looking for Bo together with the rest of the gang? I think it could go either way. If the Wanderer is hell bent on teaching Tamsin a lesson for being naughty and not doing what she was assigned to do, then I think Bo and Tamsin are together. Maybe the wanderer is feeling generous and is willing to let Tamsin's inability or out right refusal to do her job slide? I've seen that tweet by EA talking about there being so many death scenes in episode 1.Could the death scenes nvolve killin Tamsin and resurrecting her over and over again? Perhaps the wanderer is hell bent on showing
all the light fae and dark fae just who the boss really is by going out
and killing a bunch of Fae?

What about the Morrigan? Is Vex going to be the new Morrigan and if
so what happens to Evony? I love vex so I hope he is the new Morrigan,
but I kinds still hope that Evony is still around I kinda like the witchy/bitchy Evony. Especially if she is demoted and has to kill Vex's
back side. OMG wouldn't that be awesome! Let's not forget about
Bruce will he be back in a recurring role? I loved Bruce I wish he was
light fae then he and kenzi could be best buds. I know that the dark fae world doesn't look kindly to one of theirs being friends with humans.
BTW there are some people out there that are trying to start a new ship called copdoc Tamsin and Lauren together. What they don't realize is that dark Fae are not suppose to cohabitate with humans. The last dark Fae to do that was severly punished. Besides why would Tamsin
want to be with some whiny human when she can be with a succubus?
Katherine Bloom
431. lsbloom
The characteristics that make up those two extremes cannot co-exist. She couldve been naive etc when she started out, sure, but her experiences could have burned those weaker aspects out long ago or they wouldve if there was any consistency to her character.
Kiersten, very astute. I completely agree. It is my biggest problem with the she is a put-on slave argument. If she'd felt so supremely mistreated by the fae and the trickery of the ash(es), then why did she recommit? Even if she was naive and desperate, when the reason for that desperation was removed and her eyes were opened wide, if it was such a horrible setup, why stay? And if she is so super well-educated and protest-y against the government fiesty, how could she condone living in such a medieval political structure?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
432. Kiersten
@lsbloom - well the easy and rote answer to that is "in order to be near Bo" but then again, that completely undermines her agency. What's that? We can only bitch about a woman's agency being subverted in Lost Girl when it's Dyson trying to protect Bo? Oh hell no. I call Goose/Gander Gander/Gander on that one (as in good for...)

If DL's sole reason for subjecting herself to an ongoing committment to the Fae was just so she could be near Bo, that's subverts her agency and makes her seriously important life decisions revolve around someone with whom she's not even in a relationshp. In fact, NotComaNadia was still alive then, so DL was actually in a relationship with a complete different woman, which makes determining her life decisions based on the ability to stay near somebody else (Bo) even more absurd and unlikely.

That said, I think it played a factor because DL's obsessive love for Bo is just that sycophantic. But the overriding factors her are that DL felt (erroneously as it turned out) that she owed Lachlan in exchange for NotComaNadia's "resurrection" and had an explicit overall reason to want to stay with the Light Fae - her ongoing research. With all her "genius" and with Bo's stated promise that she (Bo) would help restore NotComaNadia, DL still failed to question whether or not Bo had anything to do with that resurrection. Because she wanted an excuse to owe Lachlan so that she could have a reason to stay with the Fae.

Look, DL is first and foremost a doctor, above and beyond everything else. Her entire identity is wrapped up in her profession. The advantages with the Fae in that regard far outweigh the negatives. Even her research with Taft turned out only to be successful and rewarding because it involved Fae DNA as cures to human ills. A true prisoner, someone who'd been looking for a way out of an untenable situation for years, whose contract is now fulfilled with the restoration of her lover, would have left and not let the door slam her in the ass on the way out. Had she returned to the human world, found it lacking, and then recommitted herself to the Light Fae, I would have totally bought it b/c it tracks and is organic. But the way it played out, there is no way to misinterpret her situation as any kind of enslavement - or her decision to stay as anything less than motivated by the medical advantages she gained. (Also, the whole "Karen Beattie, she's a wanted criminal and couldnt return to the human world anway" excuse doesnt play here b/c it's a retconned, craptastic, inexplicable, last minute Hail Mary and I refuse to give it credence until someone makes it anything less than the writers desperation to make DL one-tenth as bad ass as - well - Team Badass.)
Katherine Bloom
433. lsbloom
Wow, it never occurred to me that one of the possible motivations behind the creation of Karen could be to rationalize away why Lauren stayed with the fae even after she got Nadia back. I mean the possibility of prison time couldn't be worse than being a slave for life, right? If the fae can get you off of death row, they probably can make a person of interest warrant go away. Regardless, the retcon isn't worth considering, because the minute Nadia died Lauren tried to leave.

And I certainly never believed that Lauren made out with her formerly comatose girlfriend, said thank you to the Ash, kneeled in front of him to promise to forever wear his mark, planned a romantic getaway, and then (finally) went to Bo's birthday party girlfriend in tow without even giving Bo a head's up all with the motivation of "staying close to Bo." She then took Bo's car and told Bo not to call her. That's not really sacrificing your "freedom" for someone. Lauren didn't even hesistate to go back to Nadia.

I really felt like Nadia was a chance to show another side of Lauren that wasn't defined by her connection to Bo or her profession. But she was so horrible to Nadia. I think she was nicer, more honest, and more loyal when she was in a coma. At least when Nadia was in a coma, she knew about Lauren's feelings for Bo.

For a show about strong women and strong female-female relationships, it is shocking that the two primary f/f relationships have been built on withholding and lies.
Annie Moore
434. drusilla_doll
I've given up trying to address all of the previous points (you guys are prolific and eloquent), but...

here's what springs to mind:

I believe that the no human/fae relations springs from the fact that they can't procreate to ensure Fae continuance. The Fae are outnumbered, we've been given the impression that while long-lived, they conceive far less frequently and successfully than humans do. So it stands to reason that they don't condone unions which are pretty much 100% guaranteed to not have Fae offspring.

I still have to scratch my head who insist that DL was some sort of saviour in the finale. For all her bargaining, she couldn't even secure Bo's freedom, let alone that of anyone else's. It also should be acknowledged that post-operation Dyson was prepared to bring Taft down, no matter what. Even if he HAD been wolfed out, do you seriously think Dyson couldn't have taken him down? Also that Aoife is the only reason Bo didn't receive a mortal fricking wound due to Taft's enhanced (thanks to DL) faeness. Regardless of whether it was wolf or cabbit, the fact remains that DL gave Taft powers which could have harmed those she supposedly cared about. I don't buy at all that she made some deep or awesome sacrifice in doing what she did. She saved her own ass, and maybe gave Dyson an advantage when he didn't necessarily need one.


I do find the conflicting assertions that DL is both a kick ass/resourceful protester rebel and a naive gullible put-upon inadvertant and enslaved patsy too difficult to reconcile. Seriously, if she's the former, where's her backbone and resilience? If she's the second, why all the unconvincing retcons to her backstory to try to say otherwise?

I want the females in the show to have agency, but not at the expense of vulnerability and community, People are stronger when they have a good support system. It's why I get annoyed at people who think Dyson shouldn't be doing everything possible to protect Bo and take the hits in her stead. Kenzi would, Lauren wishes she could What makes it any different that it's Dyson, except for the fact that he's a man. Sometimes I wonder if we aren't being subjected to masculine and heterosexual shaming nowadays. We can't admire the male-female dynamic without being accused of suppressing or not supporting the LBGT agenda.

For the record I am hugely supportive of LBGT rights. I've been accused of being a flaming libtard, but sometimes I feel as if my being a hetero-sexual who prefers such pairings (while still appreciating f/f and m/m ships when done well and consistently) is seen as a negative thing, something to apologise for on the internet these days.

I'm not going to apologise for having a preference for sexy and sometimes edgy male on female action. I find the Bo/Lauren stuff mostly insipid. And yes I LOVED the opening of Vexed. The blood didn't irk me at all, but then again I am well versed in fantasy and supernatural drama and their often less than conventional heated romances.

As far as I am concerned, the idea that what Bo and Lauren had was mature is a complete fallacy. In my eyes it was more a 'faux' sort of maturity: hey look at us we're not raising our voices or speaking with undue emotion at all. No, we'll just not speak about anything important or our fears and insecurities until it's so bad it's practically irreperable. Lalalala everything is fine even though we're both lying to each other. That's burying your head in the sand, not being mature. Walking on eggshells and not trusting that your relationship can take true honesty and a sharing of the good, bad and the ugly.

It's why I can never buy into DL and Bo. It felt more like a fantasy, a glossing over of reality and a reach for something which, ultimately, wasn't tenable.

That said, I don't doubt they loved each other. I just think they were an awful match from the beginning and Dyson - or even Tamsin for that matter - is a better prospect for the long haul. Still, I agree with @Kiersten, I think Tamsin will be revealed to be a half sister. Bo has been pre-ordained and her father has been trying for centuries to bring her into existence.

I don't know why ppl are that squicked about that idea when Bo had a much sexier make out kiss with her own mother Aoife and we have precedents in such classics as Star Wars, where Leia kissed Luke (her as yet unknown brother) in order to get back at her true love interest Han Solo.
ernestine henry
435. whiskeywhite
Oh my goodness, I've been out of touch for about 3 weeks and look what's happened! I left off at about #105 and now you're at #433! Quite a number of new participants and lots of juicy, thoughtful comments. I'm trying to catch up. Your comments are like potato chips -- I keep saying to myself, "You must go to bed," to which I answer, "I'll just read a few more." So, I'll keep my head in the potato chip bag.

One comment about politics and TV shows. LostgirlFan says:
The tv shows are there for entertainment and not for social commentary.
All TV shows, and other forms of entertainment, have underlying politics, that is, views about how the world works and should work. It's just that when those views are ones held commonly in the society and by ourselves, we don't notice it. We only notice the "politics" when something new, or contrary to commonly held views, is introduced.

Minime's example of the original TV Star Trek is a good one:
every time a sci-fi show has made a real impact it was not done to "show people" it was just done because it made sense in the story and as part of the characters.
I agree in part. Given the time they were portraying, the future, and the fact that there were now intergalactic federations, etc., it made sense for the story that the officers on the Enterprise came from different races and even species, and that women were more equal with men (though not totally so).

However, while it fit the story, the producers/writers of the show knew perfectly well that they were breaking new ground by showing a multi-racial crew in positions of authority and, as Minime points out, the first inter-racial kiss. It didn't just happen as a result of the story. Decisions were made about the vision. They were presenting a vision of a future world where there was greater gender and racial equality, a highly "political" idea at the time (remember this was the time of the Civil Rights movment, the early Women's Liberation movement and the Black Power movement. I was there, I remember the impact the series had on me, an original trekkie). Was the series created to make this point? No. It was created as entertainment and to make money. Was a decision made to show viewers how different society could be -- and should be -- in the future? Yes. There is no enetrtainment without politics, and LG is a good example.

P.S. -- LostgirlFan, so glad to meet another rum drinker here. Don't let my screen name fool you. :-)
Annie Moore
436. drusilla_doll
@whiskeywhite: welcome back! I totally agree. In fact I find it completely how fascinating how progressive sci fi was decades ago in ways which couldn't be portrayed in realistic scenarios.

In fact, as I recall, Deep Space Nine - also a Trek franchise, depicted the first solidly lesbian romance and romantic kiss on network tv as well (Dax and her former wife Lenara). The storyline was only one episode but I remember how moved I was by it because it was about society and their taboos and how love pushes past those boundaries sometimes. Not always culminating in a happy ending, but at least being true to the characters. It was riveting for me to watch and it makes me sad that LG sometimes feels more like pandering to a vocal agenda than really getting the heart of the issue which is that LOVE is not something you can define or limit.

Here's a link to the scene - it's dated and unabashedly sci-fi but still incredibly poignant in a way that I find LG just - misses in their attempt to be hip, imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvfJRLTNmUI
Marie Sullivan
437. Minime
Hello Whiskey!
It was created as entertainment and to make money. Was a decision made to show viewers how different society could be -- and should be -- in the future? Yes. There is no enetrtainment without politics, and LG is a good example.
I posted a link to an EA comic con interview and in it she references that she tries to give the LGBT community things it wants and has never seen on TV and I am pointing out that Gene was able to make a statement in a way that wasn't so… Caged Fae, in your face, appeals to only one demographic kind of way. He managed to make the story a universally appealing one. I would love for LG to be a bit more inclusive and that doesn't mean Bo & Dyson as a couple, I am talking about not bowing to every fan base and giving us a quality story and if it's good enough the fans will follow. The seem to be sacrificing story and character for fanfic IMO. Yes, it is about the show making money but season 3 seems to be shedding fans by the thousand, In the US the numbers dropped to an average of 900,000 viewers vs season 1 & 2 having 1.3 million viewers on average. Some weeks in season 3 less then 800,000 viewers and only 6 out of 13 episodes had more then 1 million viewers. The show is doing something wrong.

Begin Rant:
In returning to the creation of LG it was intended that Bo was a Bi superhero and her storyline of how she views love and sex differently is what makes the show sex positive. Bo is who she is, loves who she loves and enjoys sex, lots of sex with men, women, fae and threesomes and that is never looked down upon. Bo is never less then or shamed for enjoying sex and having lots of it but we have this reversal in season 3. Bo is monogamous to the point of exhibiting what I consider and eating disorder or self-harming. Bo is for all intentions is anorexic in season 3 and Lauren or anyone else setting "ground rules" for her feeding does nothing more IMO then endorse the idea that Bo should be not only shamed for her appetite but that she would give up "agency" to a lover and allow them to have such dominance over what she consumes and leading to an almost silent endorsement of a superhero with an eating disorder. For me the issue wasn't the no Dyson rule it was any rules at all. The most troublesome part was the couch scene at the end of Fae's Wide Shut where Lauren tells Bo how to feed and that she has been "particularly hungry" and should "be OK with a "regimen of small meals". Who is this woman to judge anothers eating habits? To make her feel shame for being hungry? To make her feel shameful and to tell her how to feed? Really??? REALLY??? WTF come on what happened to the no shame rule??? End Rant, sorry guys. Phew I feel better now that I got that out.


In really looking at season 3 I find more and more issues with it and while I enjoyed the finale and many episodes overall I feel that the writers became lost themselves and abandoned the essence of the show. I understand the issues they faced with budgets and a 13 episode season but overall I think it's just an excuse by a poorly chosen show runner whom can't see the forest for the trees.
Marie Sullivan
438. Minime
And I am sorry if equating Bo's feeding in season 3 is an insult to people with body issues, it's just that was what I saw because of my own eating & body issues that formed in my 30's when my body suddenly changed as did my eating habits and if my husband told me how or what to eat he would have found the couch very comfy for a very long time.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
439. Kiersten
@Whiskey - I wondered where the hell you'd gotten to! Welcome back!

@Drusilla_Doll - I pretty much agree with every freaking vowel and consonant that you wrote. Huzzah.

@Minime - I have heaping truck loads of body issues & your succienct summation was spot on. I've been trying to nail down that exact analogy for a while & it just escaped me. I was able to see the VAST difference between the "no shaming" ethos of the original series bible and pretty much all of Season 3.DL's limitations, her "small meals" and injections are all subversive was of saying "you should be ashamed of your innate nature and we need to find ways to control you & keep you from succumbing to it" while Dyson c0ntinues to remind Bo, "you're a succubus. It's your nature."

It seems the only time Bo is actually, outright shamed about her sexuality these days is in regards to her relationship with Dyson. There's been a clear hypocrisy and bias in Lost Girl for some time and by S3 no one is even trying to hide it anymore as Dyson is repeatedly called out for infringing on Bo's agency for the exact same behavior that is applauded or ignored when it's done by DL, Tamsin, Aoife, or even Kenzi. I still don't understand when it became bad to protect the people you love and that's without even mentioning that Protector is a major aspect of Dyson's character across the board - hell, he's even protected/defended DL and Vex. Yet over and over, the childish response is "I can take care of myself" when even Bo has acknowledged more than once that she's stronger when she has her Faemily to back her up - and that one of the things she and Dyson do best together is fight side by side against the world
Linda Losik
440. LindaL
@drusilla_doll: Well Said! I am so very tired of the double standard that is being propagated by others that whatever Dyson does is bad and if Lauren does the Exact Same Thing then it is good only because Lauren is doing it. And I am also tired of being falsely accused of being homophobic because I disagree with them. In Star Trek, Next Gen, the doctor’s current lover was actually an intelligent parasite that had to be transferred into another body because the first one was dying…I remember being so moved (almost to tears) when the female host said good bye. That was passion, love and chemistry…none of which I see the Bo and Lauren pairing. And I also agree with your thoughts on the beginning of Vexed! Loved it but then most of my reading and movies are Syfy!

@Mimime: Thanks for connecting the dots; did not realize that Lauren really did put Bo on a diet! I just thought that she was trying to make Bo more human rather than having Bo accept that she is fae with all of the rights and responsibilities thereof.

I just hope that the writers can get back to basics of writing about strong characters who do not use sex shaming and can get away from the pandering because they will destroy a show that has so much potential.
ernestine henry
441. LGfaen1
@Minime While yes, the nowhitenoise interview I am sure has everything to do with this whole thing I was referring to posts like these http://saxilize.tumblr.com/post/56984917950/the-upsetting-information-about-rachel-skarsten-links that are popping up on tumblr and have sent her fans in a frenzy.

@Kiersten thanks for letting me rant and everyone for being so nice, today I just feel down to be honest.
ernestine henry
442. Char
@Kiersten--"Because she wanted an excuse to owe Lachlan so that she could have a reason to stay with the Fae." Brilliant deduction.

@LGfaen1--that person has too much time on thier hand. It is deplorable that they are using RS' personal life against her for a tv show. WTH! :(

yes, there is a double standard when it comes to men on the show. I am also tired of Lauren being known as the Savior just because she is female. I am hoping that Season 4 changes the perception.
Nusi Dekker
443. NusiD
@LGfaen1: Thank you for posting that link. I am sure that it has devistated the LG fans who were invested in the character of Tamsin to the point of hoping that she would hook up with Bo. And while I am sad that she seems to support homophobia, I know that she is also a professional actor struggling to get jobs. LG was the first job she has landed in years that wasn't a one-off guest role. Who wouldn't go for a steady paycheck for awhile doing something you love? Her LG stint was a job, and she did it. I think, though, that from some of her latest tweets in that link (Jul 28), I believe that her stint with LG is done.

I, for one, really enjoyed Tamsin in s3, but both of her "kisses" with Bo were contrived. Bo never trusted Tamsin the entire season and they didn't like each other that much. They never even hugged, ever. Fans who were disenchanted with how toxic the Bo/Lauren relationship had become were desperately looking for something else.

Anyway, RS post LG will probably just fade into obscurity again. She did that short film for the church but I'm sure she did it for nothing, it was a promo vid, methinks.

Also, your rant gave me food for thought. :) Yes, that did bother me that Lauren restricted Bo's "diet". But Bo was changing physiologically, needing even more chi, even getting to the point where she was incapacitating the Fae (putting that guy in a coma in the first ep). I don't think that Lauren was giving her any chi, just sex, and in that case, was starving her. Lauren was thinking like a human doctor, and not as a Fae, which was her downfall.
Marie Sullivan
444. Minime
@Kiersten
There's been a clear hypocrisy and bias in Lost Girl for some time and by S3 no one is even trying to hide it anymore as Dyson is repeatedly called out for infringing on Bo's agency for the exact same behavior that is applauded or ignored when it's done by DL, Tamsin, Aoife, or even Kenzi.
I think @Earwin quoted Lauren in Season 2 and it's a quote that doccutopia fans hold up as the benchmark for Lauren "I heard you needed me, I came." This shows shows how selfless she is (or at least that is what people claim) but in Season 1 Dyson says the same thing to Bo in The Mourning After, "You need my help, I am there, you want me to come with you?" Bo: "No I'll be fine, I can handle this on my own" Dyson: "OK, you need me just call, I'll be right there" Bo: I know, I always do. But what ever Dyson says is bad and what ever Lauren does is good??? even when they say and do the same things.
Marie Sullivan
445. Minime
@Nusi
I don't think that Lauren was giving her any chi, just sex, and in that case, was starving her.
EA said that Bo never fed on Lauren's chi till The Ceremony so she was only getting sex but not feeding on chi at all. I guess that Lauren never took the time to ask how her feeding works just her powers. I think that their is a difference in the two. So yes you are correct, Bo was starving herself for DL by not feeding and DL was telling Bo how to eat. A very bad example for a herione to set, let your lover tell you how to eat and how to quell your hunger.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
446. Kiersten
@Minime - I love the confidence in that exchange between Bo and Dyson. He offers, she reassures she's got it handle, he accepts that and reminds her he's there should that sitch change. He has every confidence in her to handle it on her own and that makes her more confident in herself even as they acknowledge that should she unexpectedly get in over her head (as she does sometimes) her instinctive first move is to reach out to him. And she embraces him for it; she appreciates how strongly he feels about her enough even as he doesnt force her to accept his help b/c he respects and loves her. There's no insult to his offering support (like there was in Ceremony in S3). She doesnt doubt his confidence in her abilities and she recognizes that he's just supporting her as he (almost) always does. One of the strongest aspects of their relationship is he expresses his feelings or opinion or support and then lets her go to make her own choices and conclusions, which actually empowers her agency rather than the oft accusation that he undermines it.
Marie Sullivan
447. Minime
There's no insult to his offering support (like there was in Ceremony in S3).
How about Bo being so incapable of deciding on anything in Ceremony that she has to look at DL and DL has to tell her to "take him with you." Talk about lost agency.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
448. Kiersten
@Minime - I took that as her checking w/DL about it b/c of DL's "No-Dyson" rule but the infringed agency is definitely there either way for sure.

Incidentally, every time the whole "no Dyson" thing comes up, all I can think about is Friends when Ross said Rachel's name at his wedding to Emily and later, she insisted that if she agreed to try again with him, Ross would have to promise to have absolutely no contact with Rachel, a "No Rachel" rule. We know how that worked out...
Marie Sullivan
449. Minime
I occurred to me that Bo has really had no agency since season 1. One could say that in season 2 and 3 she had lost her mission to find her parents and live the life she chooses, Bo had once again become lost. Bo was simpy reacting in both seasons to what was happening around her, she didn't go to the Norn herself, she let Dyson take the Garuda reigns easily, she let Lauren twist her arm into a realtionship, she let Stella ban humans from her training. That her real "Dawning" was in The Witches of Fae-wick when she returns to the HH and KENZI after her Self-actualization lightbulb moment with the duppy. Bo shakes her head as if to come out of a daze and says "what am I doing here" and decided to pick up her old mission to find her father, Kenzi wisely guides her to settle her current matters before she starts anew. I think with the Taft tomfoolery she could have been easily pulled back in the matters of the fae but the smoke-napping has put her back on her original track.
Suzanne Metaxas
450. SuzyM
I find it very disturbing that RS is being judged not by what she says or does but by who she associates with. What right does anyone have to do that? I also find it disturbing that she is being attacked for being Christian. How is that any different than someone being attacked because they are homosexual? If you are a man and Roman Catholic does that make you a pedophile? I think people should stop putting labels on people! When RS herself does something against the LGBT community then you have something to bitch about, until then just shut the hell up! RS is an actress playing a part and nothing more. She is sweet, unassuming and nice to her fans so what is their problem? OK I"m off my soap box :D
Megan Frampton
451. MFrampton
Hey guys, loving how active this thread is!

We just wanted to pop in to remind everyone to keep the focus on the the show and the characters on the show, not the actors playing them or their personal lives.

Thanks for so much discussion!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
452. Kiersten
To that end, here is an interesting take on writing strong women. The examples used are from the BBC show SHERLOCK (J'adore!), but I think it can apply to the discussion here regarding how Bo is written and the criticism when anyone tries to help her (and by anyone, I mean Dyson) that they (he) infringe(s) on her "strength" as a woman/hero/protagonist.

http://madlori.tumblr.com/post/51723411550/rebloggable-by-request-well-first-of-all
Marie Sullivan
453. Minime
Thanks for the article. Here is a great interview with GOT's George RR Martin on a similar topic, interestingly enough more then half of his fans are women.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/9959063/Game-of-Throness-George-RR-Martin-Im-a-feminist.html
ernestine henry
454. LostgirlFan
@NusiD thanks for reminding us just how much the doccubus crowd
hates Tamsin. The moment you started on and on about how much
Bo never trusted Tamsin, and that they never hugged you gave your
doccubus agenda away. So you know why I choose to support
Bo and Tamsin over Bo and Lauren really? So it was the toxic
relationship between Lauren and Bo that drove me and alot of others
to support Valkubus? Those are assumptions that I quite frankly think you have no right to make. You have no idea what was going through
our minds when we choose to support Valkubus over Doccubus. I will make only one statement about Rachel then I''ll be done sorry MFrampton. She's never said anything about the Gay community that can be even remotely derogitory, and it's not fair to assume that she
holds the same views as the pastor of her church. Sorry MFrampton
I won't bring this matter up again.
Annie Moore
455. drusilla_doll
@LostgirlFan: What I love about the Bo/Tamsin dynamic is how they both didn't trust each other in the beginning, but slowly, over time, we see them forming a bond - albeit reluctantly. By the end of the season, there's a grudging respect and emotional investment in each other. For me it was nicely organic in development.

Bo had every right to suspect Tamsin had an agenda, because she did and she was conflicted about that. I actually liked how they each had a bead on each other and yet there's a push-pull tension there which - for me - kept me watching to see what happened between them. Not necessarily in a sexual way, but there were definite sparks of an emotional nature going on imo. I would like to see where they go next with that.

And while Bo had her suspicions confirmed that Tamsin had a secret mission and couldn't be trusted not to turn on her, we (the audience) have seen how much Tamsin has struggled over it, and the toll it's taken on her to carry it out. Bo, despite being betrayed, still wants to give her the benefit of the doubt and reaches out to her. Sees something in her worth saving. It's a wonderful moment and we see Tamsin finally fully commit to being on Bo's side because of this faith, this belief in her that she's redeemable.

Quite frankly, I'll take the struggle/resistance and eventual breakthrough over the alternative. :)
Carmen Pinzon
456. bungluna
@Minime- By George, I think you've got it! That whole feeding control and injections to change her bothered me no end, but I just couldn't express it so clearly. Thank you.

I miss S1's total lack of shaming for Bo's basic nature. The take out scenes, the threesome, etc just underscored her true nature. As soon as she started feeding fully, Bo learned to manage her hunger and stoped killing her meals.

By S3 we have Bo taking injections to control her appetite and Lauren regulating who/what/where/how she can feed. Talk about abusive relationships.

I have to say, though, that I don't think Lauren sees it that way. She is thinking like a human doctore, trying to find a 'cure' for a condition that is natural to Bo, not a disease.

I've read a lot of comments about how the Fae are evil because they prey on humans. Sorry, but I don't see it that way. They are Fae, their food is humans, get over it. If a human dies, that's no more murder than if a cow dies to give me a steak. Now if you're vegetaria, you have some room to complain, but the lettuce has a right to live too, (that was a joke, btw.)
Kiersten Hallie Krum
457. Kiersten
@LostGirlFan & @NusiD - I'm gonna call a cease & desist on the Doccubus vs Vaulkubus convo for the moment as it seems to be getting heated and a little too fan war-ish . You are both entitled to your ship & you're welcome to share those opinions here without being tagged as having an agenda and/or either of you feeling as though you are being personally attacked. Time to pull back and return to congenial conversation. We got a little derailed by the antipathy out there toward RS and now need to right ourselves back from the edge. Thanks.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
458. Kiersten
Ah, to be clear, that doesn't mean we can't continue to discuss Bo & Tamsin's relationship and Bo and DL's relationship. Those are germane discussion points. Lets just not wade into the poison of fan wars. Nobody ever wins there. Thanks again.
Annie Moore
459. drusilla_doll
DL has been working for the Fae as the doctor on call for years, though. Surely she'd have seen enough not to treat Bo's succubus needs like a human disease in need of curing or suppressing in the extreme.

The eating disorder analogy is really interesting, however. It certainly puts a whole different light on the attempts to 'treat' Bo's condition and how it could be perceived.
Nusi Dekker
460. NusiD
@LostGirlFan: I did not say anything about the doccubus crowd regarding Tamsin, I said "fans who were disenchanted with the Bo/Lauren relationship," I just meant fans, not doccubus fans. Ugh, sorry, jeez.

@drusilla _doll: I totally agree with your assessment of Tamsin. Tamsin saw that Bo was willing to sacrifice who she was and even die for the people she loved. Bo was Tamsin's ideal of a warrior...virtuous, courageous, strong, and intensely loyal. Tamsin committed to Bo at the end, but then why did she try to kill Bo's father? Was she trying to kill him first before he killed her? Why not turn the truck around and flee in the opposite direction? It seemed like The Wanderer could have captured Bo himself at any time, Tamsin didn't have to deliver her to him...
Katherine Bloom
461. lsbloom
I was really disturbed by the switch in DL's attitude from season 1, there's nothing to fix you are a perfectly example of your species, to season 3 and the injections and curbing her feeding. Bo wasn't just having a problem with monogamy, she was starving to death. No partner has a right to decide life and death for you, to ask for you to give up sustenance to be with them, to restrict your basic needs. It is a shame the writers have rewritten so many of the tenets of season 1. And that Bo needing to feed, not being capable of monogamy , embracing her succubus nature has been turned from desired into her being a horrible girlfriend and not good enough. I miss the idea of no shaming and no labels.
Annie Moore
462. drusilla_doll
@nusid : I think she saw the opportunity to repay Bo's faith in her. Once she'd decided to join with Bo, Dyson and Co, it meant that she'd committed to opposing Bo's father's plans for her. When she saw him in the middle of the road, she knew he was going to keep on trying to reclaim Bo, no matter what. So, she did a kamikaze (trying to run him down but knowing it might lead to her own death), presuming that it was her only chance to get rid of the threat for good. It showed just how far she was willing to go to protect Bo. I also suspect that we'd seen how tired she was of the situation - perhaps there was a touch of the suicidal resignation there too. If she saw herself as old, not really a fiercely capable asset like she once was, and had to die (in order to regenerate), what better way to go out than in a blaze of glory, while helping Bo to escape her father's clutches.

She wasn't successful, of course, will probably feel guilty next season about how she took Dyson along for the ride.
Nusi Dekker
463. NusiD
@Kiersten: I'm sorry about that, I clearly con't communicate well and I will have to be a lot more careful with what I say. I am not anti-anything, and I love Lost Girl and all of the characters.

I know that people complain a lot about the LG writers and the replacement of ML with EA during s2. Does anyone know why that happened, since ML along with JF created the series? I remember finding out that the showrunner was changing for s3, and a lot of fans (including me) thought that EA would have Bo go back with Dyson, since he got his love back. I had no idea that EA was already running the show a few episodes in s2. What is JF's part in creating the storyline. I know that for other serialized shows like LOST and Battlestar Galactica, a storyline is set for 4-5 years.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
464. Kiersten
It's all good, @NusiD. I just like to head off any potential ramping up before it can get any legs. Occasionally, I jump too soon, so apologies if that's the case here. My intent is not to make people cautious or self-conscious, merely to keep the peace. ;)

EA was not official showrunner until S3. I heard some scuttlebutt (unconfirmed) that her appointment was a relief as it created a stability that was lacking BTS in S2. I suspect that Firestone was the default showrunner for S2 so to speak. He is the overall executive producer, a title that EA also has now. He remains very involved with the direction of LG (I've heard the addition of Tamsin was all due to him, but again, that's rumor) but does oversee other shows as well while EA is solely committed to LG. Think Firestone is to Whedon what EA is to Marti Noxon in the final years of BTVS. EA was already a producer/writer on LG from S1 and was very involved in S2 but didn't become official showrunner until S3.

The official word from ML as I understand it was that she left LG because working in Tdot when her family was in LA was too difficult and she wanted to be home with her kids. I don't completely buy that, but have never heard anything to counteract it. I suspect there's a lot there that's not been made public. The dramatic difference in the direction and ethos of the show from S1 to S2 and then onward through S3 I think is directly due to these changes in leadership though, again, I don't know what truly drove those changes. Perhaps someone else does.
Nusi Dekker
465. NusiD
@Kiersten: Eek!! I hope that EA is not the Marti Noxon of LG. I LOVED BTVS but the final season was so bad that I bailed after a couple episodes in, and I know that Noxon was the showrunner then. Ugh, I know that EA has said she is a big BTVS fan. I hope she's not consulting or something with Noxon about LG storylines.


Thank you for the info on the showrunners!
ernestine henry
466. whiskeywhite
Thanks, Kiersten and drusilla_doll for the welcomes back. I've just been working and, OK I admit it, re-watching LG episodes on my new flat screen. But all I do is get some sleep last night and do some work, and the fabulous comments keep piling up. How am I going to catch up?

drusilla_doll: thanks for the link to the Deep Space Nine scene and the point about the lesbian romance, which I didn't know. I will definitely check that out. After the original Star Trek, I haven't followed TV sci fi much. For those of you who are sci fans, do you think it has it continued the tradition of presenting progressive social views, or critiques of social ills? Has it furthered women's equality and empowerment? I do watch Continuum which features a woman s/hero from the future where the corporations have totally taken over. It is explicitly a critique of current growing corporate power.

Minime: like others, please let me say that I thought your rant was fabulous!
... in season 3. Bo is monogamous to the point of exhibiting what I consider and eating disorder or self-harming. ... (It) endorse the idea that Bo should be not only shamed for her appetite but that she would give up "agency" to a lover ...
You NAILED IT! I have been complaining about the series' insistence on monogamy for some time. But your analysis of shaming and control is right on. Then to go further and make the analogy to an eating disorder -- marveloso! Talk about politics embedded in TV!

That, and the despicable S3.01, are a betrayal of the original politics of the lesbian and gay liberation movement, which fought for sexual freedom, against sexualized violence, and critiqued the oppressive features of heterosexual monogamy. What do we have now? The idealizing of a lesbian relationship in which your partner controls you and you allow it because you think that is an expression of love. Argh!

I think I've mentioned before that when I tell my 20-something students that the LGBT* struggle used to be a highly political movement, they look at me blankly. To them it's all about personal choices, and only that. That's what Season 3 of LG is pandering to. BTW, I'm not saying that the LGBT* movement isn't still political and struggling for progressive change, just that the public acceptance of it is of a deeply de-politicized version (or perhaps I should say a politically tamed version, since it's still about politics folks).

Speaking of seasons, KHR commented recently that there have been some major staff changes at LG. Any hope things will improve as a result? But I guess EA is still around. Is it possible that the ratings plunge in S3 may have led Prodigy to give her some different marching orders?
ernestine henry
467. Lainer
@LostGirlFan Thanks for the warm welcome. I indeed am new here. There are so many posts that i couldn't keep up. LOL! I did a hit and run post. I am also late to the watching of Lost Girl. I did a marathon of watching all three season in a week. I can't stand waiting for week to week series and rarely can recall what channel anything is on. I basically ignore all TV and go to NetFlix or other internet sources and watch full series of TV to get better engaged, and because I just don't commit to TV shows each night. The only problem is everyone is talking about the latest shows, and I never see them until years later. LOL! The only reason I watched this series is because I was a Linda Hamilton fan from way back. I heard she was going to be in one of the episodes. Then I heard George Takai was going to be in one. So, I had to start from scratch and watch the whole series to understand the whole dynamics. I like the show generally, and it's due to their lackadasical approach to gay, straight, bi, multi partner approach. I liked that concept. It was freeing to watch that no one gave a rat's ass about who this woman fed on. LOL! I though at first it was a way for the creator to get away with as much sex scenes as possible by giving her Succubus fedding schedule as the reason, but then I realized also that they have actual relationships, which made it less predictable and deeper in storylines. I hate lazy or predictable writing, so some of the shows I was completely bored with and had that option to fast forward. But the show has promise as long as they really develop the characters and have intelligent stories that are also hard to predict or conclude. When TV people dumb down to tha audience, I dump the whole series. I can usually figure out all motives in shows (TV or moves) within minutes of airing. It's annoying, but it also makes me mad that no one puts forth the effort to make it more intelligent. Nothing is worse than insulting the audience with common story lines. Ugh!

So, hello to all. Thanks for the interesting comments.
Marie Sullivan
468. Minime
I know she left LG to create Secret Circle for the CW and it is true that she was in Toronto while her family and 2 young children were in LA. ML was hired to create the show and oversee the first season and after moved on to other projects in the US. ML did the arc and was the story editor for all of season 1 and she did 2x01 & 2.02 plus the season 2 over all arc and left after filming of 2x02, no one was hired to replace her and EA left for her maternity leave, Firestone took over and even wrote a few episodes. After filming the original 7 episodes of the 13 episode arc for season 2 Firestone added the back 9 and chose to just change the scripts for the original 7 and extend the arc rather then treating the Garuda as a mid season finale and creating a new mini arc for the back 9. He also added Nadia and extended Ciara's part and red shirted her, she was originally only to be a fling. I know the cast also talked about having really long days because Firestone shot the extra episodes without adding extra shooting time, KHR & AS said that they filmed an episode in 6 days including table reads and they felt it was too much. I have sources that I can dig up. ML & EA seem to be friends when EA was made showrunner ML did co-interviewes with her (Huffington Post CA) and really talked her up.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
469. Kiersten
See? Toldja someone else would know more. I didnt know a lot of that. Though its Showcase & Prodigy I think who order the back nine episodes, not the producers of the show. Maybe this was an exception. That does explain why everyone was relieved to have EA take over & create some stability on set. Didn't know Ciara was only meant to be a fling originally. I do recall hearing about the grueling schedule but not the reasons. A lot of that ignorance is b/c by the time it was airing in U.S. for S1, season 2 was almost done showing in Canada, so all this was already old news.

Thanks Minime! I love the tasty BTS bits. ;)
Marie Sullivan
470. Minime
KHR talked about how hard it was to try to act without showing any love at all. They threw the Ciara curve ball and the extra 9 episodes and he didn't know how to play a person who can't feel anything who was pretending to be in love and happy. He didn't say "fling" but he said that he had to talk to the writers because he didn't understand Dyson's motives and how to play him so that was very telling. ZP said that she opened the script and was blindsided with comaNadia suddenly and Oh how can i forget they also gave us Ryan to keep Bo busy.
Though its Showcase & Prodigy I think who order the back nine episodes, not the producers of the show
Prodigy Pictures is owned by Jay Firestone.
KHR commented recently that there have been some major staff changes at LG. Any hope things will improve as a result?
I know in season 2 LG lost the set designers and wardrobe people as well as a director who all went to Orphan Black. I think Kiersten said that EA talked about cutting down the writers room to 4-5 writers for season 4 vs the 9 for season 3.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
471. Kiersten
Ah - didnt make the connection that Firestone owned Prodigy. Explains A LOT. I knew about KHR struggling to play the absence of love and then having to extend it through an additional 9 episodes unexpectedly. I actually liked Ryan a lot and thought he brought a fresh perspective to Bo, just someone interested in having fun with her. I'd heard of the decampment to Orphan Black and despite my mad, at times unreasonable love for LG, I have to admit that OB is a vastly better executed, plotted, and written show...very much the way LG was in season one.

Yes, EA has cut the writers room down - one writer was fired mid-S3 I believe - and is working with about 4 other people in the writing room for S4. That's not necessarily a bad thing - smaller staff can mean better collaboration. We'll have to see. That everyone seems to think S4 is vastly more ambitious, challenging, and exciting is encouraging to hear - but then they all said, before it aired, that S3 was their best season yet and oh holy hell was it not.

Hope springs nonetheless...
Marie Sullivan
472. Minime
@Kiersten I loved the article you posted. It's funny because I loved the Irene character in Sherlock, she was so femme fatale and Matahari esque. I thought the nude scene/ battle dress was so complex and great! I don't understand how anyone couldn't see the brilliance in her move. She kept him from gaining any advantage while also vesting his brilliance and turned him into a pile of jello in one brilliant move. While her profession was a dominatrix I think it was simply an outword symbol of her intelligence. Irene to that point had never met anyone to match her brilliance.

As for OB you are correct LGs loss of the staff is their gain. The Vexed director, his name escapes me, is amazing as the director, producer, and co creator of OB.
Suzanne Metaxas
473. SuzyM
Director of Vexed is John Fawcett, He also directed episodes of Saving Hope, Flashpoint, Rookie Blue, Heartland & The Bridge.
ernestine henry
474. whiskeywhite
I agree, Kiersten. I'm not sure I can trust the actors when they talk up the season. KHR was correct, though, whe he said of Season 3 that the first few episodes were a little (I forget the exact word he used, but I took it to mean) 'weird' or 'stange' and then it settled down after that. I'm frankly a bit frightened, but as you say, I remain ever hopeful. I'll be watching in Nov. If only to see dear Bruce.
ernestine henry
475. whiskeywhite
Of course, I meant 'strange'. Bad typing fingers. There are only 3 of you, can't you get your act together?
Suzanne Metaxas
476. SuzyM
I think KHR has been pretty honest on his opinion of the seasons. He told us all that we would like ep 3 and then ep 6 would be more to our liking and get better from there. I would say he was spot on :) He seems pretty excited about S4-1 so I'm very hopeful.
Annie Moore
477. drusilla_doll
Interesting stuff. To be honest I never really bought into Ciara. She just seemed a sacrificial lamb to the triangle from the start. Far too 'nice, and obviously doomed' to be anything other than angst fodder.

I know a lot of fans who wish Dyson was out of the way as a romantic option dearly wish that Ciara had not died and that somehow Dyson never mated to Bo for life. But me? I'd assumed it was a given from the start that she was gonna die horribly and was not surprised at all that she ended up a lovely martyr to the cause.
Marie Sullivan
478. Minime
Thank You @Suzy, John Fawcett. KHR does seem to be spot on in his interviews as is KS. I think they both said that 3 & 6 were going to be good and the last few episodes. So I have hope for episode 4x01.
Nusi Dekker
479. NusiD
I just saw a ComicCon interview of KS by TVAddict where she says that she has consulted with Firestone about her character, has been talking to him about what she wants with her character, and that he has listened to her. This suggests to me that JF has been very hands on with the show, even though he has EA do most of the talking. He seems to be letting EA take the brunt of the criticism for the direction of the show and the characters (as well as the praise). I am heartened that there is a indication that the producers are paying more attention to what is going on as s4 films.

I also feel better about there being 5 writers instead of 9, as I think that the too many writers are at least partly to blame for the retconning to solve the continuity and motivation problems that plagued s2 and s3.
ernestine henry
480. LostgirlFan
@Drusilla yes I totally agree with you. You are right on with your assesment of that new relationship. It's going to be very interesting
to see how the writers proceed with the relationship between Bo and
Tamsin. Now that Tamsin's secret is out and was dealt with by Bo and
herself things can be normalized, and Tamsin's life can actually
become more normal. Bo and Dyson are going to be able to now
smash all those walls that Tamsin has put up. Tamsin can now just
be Tamsin and know that she is accepted and cared about. If the writers and producers do try to incorporate her into the gang, then
I'm hoping this means that Tamsin will now be a regular character
and not a recurring one.

@Bungluna and Isbloom I agree with both of your comments about
Lauren and her trying to cure Bo. She doesn't have a disease to treat,
and I'm really surprised that Bo went along with it. Bo could have
just said this is who I am and if you want to be my gf then deal with
it.

@Lainer I actually started watching the show from the beginning. I
like the syfy channel and watch it regularily. I just happened to be watching Being Human and after that show was over I decided to
watch the next show and it was LG, so glad I gave it a try. I agree that
it's not a good idea when the writers and producers get lazy with the writing and just put any ol crap on tv.
ernestine henry
481. Char
Nothing to do with Lost Girl but there is a link that shows a possible Scyfy schedule for the next year!

http://www.welovesoaps.net/2013/04/syfy-unveils-2013-2014-plans.html?m=1
ernestine henry
482. TheGardner
Still goin huh?

I don't understand where this notion that Lauren was controlling Bo is coming from. Lauren put a kibosh on Bo feeding from her ex-boyfriend and gave her injections to curb her hunger, the same ones that Bo had come to her in 1x02 and begged for. How is that controlling? Bo's hunger was out of control again pre-dawning and Lauren was trying to help, she never forced Bo into anything.
Linda Losik
483. LindaL
@TheGardner: I always thought that the injections that she was giving Bo were not a permanent solution but rather a method to assist Bo in gaining control of her hunger. Bo was like a "starving" teenager (comic style) where she scarfed down everything, which, of course, killed her partners until she was with Dyson. Lauren was also commenting that the injections where no longer working, which to me raises the question: why was she still giving them? The only answer that I can come up with is: to make Bo more human. Bo has never shown that she wants to be fae but has shown that she would prefer to be human. Hence the white picket fence dream and the “your world, not mind” comments in the first season. After all, Lauren did say in episode one that Bo was a perfect specimen of her kind.

IMHO Bo loved and trusted Lauren and was willing to do anything that Lauren wanted to make Lauren happy.
Suzanne Metaxas
484. SuzyM
Does anyone else find it disturbing that the article @Char posted says NOTHING about Lost Girl????
Kiersten Hallie Krum
485. Kiersten
No, because the focus of the article is on new shows/schedule for 2013-2014 season by which, at this point, they really mean the fall. Lost Girl isn't on again till January. It's not unusual for it not to be in press releases for another few months yet.
Marie Sullivan
486. Minime
@SuzyM, Yes it's odd that they leave out LG in the press release but lets remember that it's not a Syfy original like the others listed
Bolstering its powerhouse scripted programming lineup, Syfy announced that the five-episode series from Jamie Foxx will join DEFIANCE, WAREHOUSE 13, BEING HUMAN, HAVEN and the upcoming HELIX . Syfy will also begin production on the pilot of HIGH MOON, from Bryan Fuller (PUSHING DAISIES), based on John Christopher's best-selling novel "The Lotus Cave."
@TheGardner I know you well enough to not to try to push my point but I do hope you read what I said and consider my point, it's not an attack on Lauren but an overall statement about equating Bo's feeding as it was written to that of an eating disorder.
ernestine henry
487. whiskeywhite
I'm still catching up, so my comments will sometimes be on discussions long, long ago and far-far up on the page.

Yes, TheGardner, we are still going. And you know you have a place here. You can't stay away, can you? :- ) Good, because I'm a big fan of your sharp writing, detailed analysis and "that's my opinion, like it or lump it" attitude. I agree with you that Lauren is an interesting character. As I have said before, I am very much attracted to a women who is a smart and dedicated scientist who solves problems with her mind (complementing the knives, claws and swords problem solvers). I even like that she might have been a protester for scientific integrity in the past (AKA a "terrorist", which is ridiculous). That she can punch an obnoxious man in the face, inciting Kenzi to react with "you've got game" is OK but unnecessary. Why can't smart be enough to make her an interesting character?

Can't entirely agree with your take on Dyson, but hey, we can't agree on everything, right? What's the fun in that? I would argue, however, that castigating Dyson for not telling Bo about Aife and thus concluding that Bo was "right to cast him out" for it, contradicts your "man vs mission" logic. Dyson's allegiance lies far above the human police force. He has a duty to obey the Ash, the ruler of the light Fae, but above that again, he has fealty to Trick, the Blood King.

Having a military background, you will presumably agree that a soldier has a duty to obey orders, whether s/he likes or understands them, and that's about achieving the goals of the overall mission, right? Dyson was at least twice directly ordered by Trick not to tell Bo about her mother or anything about her background, despite his pleas to Trick, "She deserves to know more." So how can you blame him for following his commander's orders? Should you not be on his side for doing the right thing?

(In addition, I have argued before that the idea that love for a romantic partner should overrule all other duties and obligations one has in society is an unrealistic feature of romance ideology. So I forgive Dyson for obeying Trick in the -- supposed -- greater interest of the Fae).

Now granted, Dyson's not always a perfect follower of orders. Once he makes a personal commitment to Bo not to lie to her in their relationship, he rebels against his liege lord, Trick, and tells him, "Tell her by tonight, or I will." When Trick doesn't, he tells Bo himself. Would you not argue by your logic that he should not have done that?

He also disobeys the direct order from Trick not to become romantically involved with Bo. He tries hard to obey, hurting them both, but she sucks him in with the "just friends" (with benefits) promise. Of course, he agrees awfully quickly with that unrealistic plan and he further conspires with Bo to hide it from Trick. Should he have soldiered on, so to speak, ignoring both his own and Bo's feelings? As you would know, FAR better than I, this soldiering thing ain't easy.

By the way, I thought the scene when Bo comes to Dyson to have sex so that she can power up for her fight with Aife, and then says to him, sorry buddy, I don't trust you, smacked of sexual exploitation. What is he, a gas station? But he gives to her willingly, and if she had allowed him to go along on the fight with Aife, there'd have been no reason for the whole tragic sacrifice/lost love story line.
Katherine Bloom
488. lsbloom
I don't like the "Dyson was under orders" rationale. Dyson had a prior loyalty to Trick and it wasn't his story to tell, yes. But he owned the decisions he made and the consequences that came from them. Being on a friend's side of a story, doesn't absolve Dyson from decision making because as much as Trick is his liege, Dyson is his own man.

When he first discussed "healing" with Bo, he disagreed with Trick, but Trick brought up several good points: Bo would feel betrayed, Bo wouldn't trust, and she might rebel against them to the dark. All saying that getting emotionally involved or using sex to keep her close/spy/control was a bad idea. I LOVED this conversation. Maybe it is because I watch sometimes annoying spy shows like Covert Affairs and have seen time and time again the story where the guy (or girl) uses a baseline attraction to get close and then when crap hits the fan is arguing "sure it started out as pretend but I really started to care for you." Displacing that expectation in a such a clear way showed me that the writers for Lost Girl understood audience expectations and were willing to subvert (or at least tweak) them. When Bo comes to Dyson for help, he says no. He makes up his own mind about whether or not he trusts Bo and he decides he does long before Trick. But she was an unknown quantity. It wasn't like he met her had a relationship and then found out a secret that he hid from someone he cared about. He had a backstory to her, knew she was a dangerous entity, before he ever met her, but liked her when he finally did. And got emotional, but the love and trust didn't solidify until Vexed, Fae Day, and Faetal Justice. In Vexed he was willing to admit that he cared. In Fae Day, he decided it was time to trust and to come clean but still wondered "how many hoops she had to jump through." and the last hoop was "Faetal Justice" "I think I know you too." When Bo was willing to go out to help him, to sacrifice herself to help another fae, he'd made a decision. In Dismembers that was when he laid down the ultimatium to Trick. He was sitting on a decision, not just a withholding. A backstory that would influence how Bo saw Trick and which side she would choose, if he would have an ally or and enemy. Bo had already proven herself to be contrary for possibly contrariness sake. So how would he know he could trust until he knew Bo? And how could he know that he should put her ahead of Trick a friend and ally? Not someone he just met. Keeping a friend's confidence from strangers isn't following orders. It's being loyal.
ernestine henry
489. whiskeywhite
lsbloom, your argument looks interesting, but I'm not sure that I fully follow it. You seem to be arguing that regardless of Dyson's obligations to Trick, he ultimately makes his own decisions and that keeping vital information from Bo was a reasonable decision for him to make early on, until he got to know her and that he could trust her. And you emphasize that Dyson was rightly acting out of loyalty to an old friend rather than just following orders. Is that right?

Could you explain further:
Displacing that expectation in a such a clear way showed me that the writers for Lost Girl understood audience expectations and were willing to subvert (or at least tweak) them.
as well as: He was sitting on a decision, not just a withholding.

By the way, someone earlier commented on the verbal beatings you were taking on other sites when you tried to introduce some sanity. I noticed the same thing and admired you for it.
ernestine henry
490. whiskeywhite
Since LG, one of things I enjoy about watching TV in Canada is seeing LG actors in other series. Just this evening I saw K.C. Collins and Eugene Clark (Hale's father) together in an old episode of The Listener, both of them playing Africans. Then right after, I finally got to see Clé Bennett (the first Ash) in a 2011 episode of Flashpoint. Apparently he was only on that series for a year. They really seemed to have him sitting at the back of the bus. In the last couple of weeks I've seen a bunch of LG alums on The Listener: Michael Cram (the bounty hunter in "Original Skin") as a sleezy business man; Athena Karkanis (Nadia) as a cutthroat prosecutor; of course we see Rainbow Sun Franks every week (he played Cameron, the rich guy killed by Maganda, the fellow with the selection of condoms -- NB: the first and only appearance of condoms in LG); Ingrid Kavelaars (The Glaive) as an ambitious upper level official at the IIB; and Von Flores (Donnie, whose husband was body snatched) as a deadly Chinese assasin. KHR has a recurring role, most recently in last week's episode, on The Listener where he sadly does little other than be charming. I also saw Salvatore Antonio (the Lich) somewhere and just the other day I saw Raoul Trujillo (The Garuda) on the most recent episode of Longmire, playing a Cheyenne bad guy. He was virtually unrecognizable with short sandy hair and an admirable set of muscles previously hidden under The Garuda's CEO suit. Only his name in the credits and his voice allowed me to pick him out.
Carmen Pinzon
491. bungluna
@whiskeywhite - I too enjoy watching Canadian tv to play 'catch the LG actor'. I missed the Garuda on Longmire, though. Which episode was that?
ernestine henry
492. TheGardner
@minime- My comment was in response to several of the ones I saw on here basically saying that Lauren was trying to control Bo by giving her the injections or trying to make her less fae, which I obviously dispute. Lauren was always trying to help Bo, not control her. As for the eating disorder, I can see some similar parallels, but I think you are reading to much into it and are giving the writers to much credit.
Marie Sullivan
493. Minime
@TheGardner perhaps I am giving the writers too much credit but as someone who has struggled with body image I found the treatment of Bo's eating in season 3 to be rife with eating disorder innuendoes. I also tend to agree with many hear that Lauren went from "there is nothing wrong with you, you're perfect" in season 1 to "I was trying to find a cure for you're situation" in season 3. The writers seem to have done a 180 on Lauren's attitude in season 3 in regards to Bo's feeding, what happened to the "It's OK Bo, it's who you are" in Brother Fae Wolves and also the talk they had in Raging Fae about her feeding when injured?
Katherine Bloom
494. lsbloom
@TheGardner--After they discovered that Bo's "problems" were actually a part of Bo's natural fae evolution, all of Lauren's direct attempts to stop that natural biological process from happening were Lauren working against Bo's fae nature.

Having crying jags and major poor me emotional fits because you've made your partner's not starving to death about your emotional expectations in a relationship is also denying Bo's fae nature in place of a human expectation. Lauren's given lip service to the fact that she "knows" Bo's biology, but she's never committed to accepting it. Not that Bo kills people to live, not that Bo has to subsist on sexual chi, not that Bo is part of a community of fae that Lauren despite her book knowledge doesn't understand. There are places and things during which Lauren can't go with Bo...like the Dawning. And being left behind made her so upset she dumped Bo. So, yes, she worked actively this season to stop Bo from being fae.
Lauren was always trying to help Bo, not control her.
Help Bo yes, but not in the way Bo needed to be helped. Bo needed to figure out how to be "fae enough" to get through her Dawning. Lauren needed Bo to not change into something that took Bo away from her. Lauren frequently thinks she is "helping" when she is not working in her partner's best interests, but instead in her own. She was helping Bo with the spy bang, she was helping Dyson by turning him over to the dark to be executed in Faetal Justice, she was helping Bo when she didn't let her out to find save Kenzi from the Kitsune. Lauren's notions of "help" aren't always the best. And are frequently about her notions of justice and control. Take the kitsune, she wanted to treat Bo--putting the doctor in a position of power over the patient. She wanted to control her girlfriend's biology. She didn't trust Bo, she didn't trust Trick, and she didn't trust millenia of fae evolution.

There is certainly a discussion to be had about the injections. When Bo first starting taking them it was in conjunction with learning about her powers both through succubus touching Lauren in a lab, Kenzi pulling her back, and Dyson letting her learn how to feed as much as she needed so she could learn limits and learn to stop. Up until this season, I thought she'd stopped taking them when she learned to feed off of humans. They'd not being mentioned since the beginning of season 1. Bo could both feed regularly and blow chi there was no need of injections to control her. However, they wrote them back in. And then they wrote in the pills in the Dawning. It is hard to not see that metaphor and since it is one of the few the writers seem capable of making in a clear thoughtout way, as a viewer, I have to think it means something.
ernestine henry
495. whiskeywhite
@bungluna - Raoul Trujillo played Grady Littlefoot in Longmire Ep. 2.09, "Tuscan Red", which showed on July 29, 2013 - last Monday. I just discovered by reading his profile that he was also in Cowboys and Aliens playing, of course, an 'Indian', named Black Knife. That film also featured Canadian Aboriginal actor Adam Beach who, sadly, is unlikely to appear in LG since he stars in his own TV series on CBC, Artic Air.
ernestine henry
496. TheGardner
@whiskeywhite- What-up homie? ;-) OK now that I have had the time to reread all of my previous comments I will try to answer you.

There was an ongoing discussion on the episode Arachnafaebia, which segued into a discussion on duty/honor/right/wrong etc. I disagreed with the viewpoint that Lauren was a monster for honoring her oath and Dyson was a champion/hero because he was fine allowing the spider to escape into the city as long as Bo was saved. I get that this show is a fantasy and love conquers all, but certain things like a police officer abandoning his duty or a character on psuedo-progressive show swapping the gender of their partner(Bo's Lauren to Laurence to appease the desperate housewives in 3x11) can kill an episode for me.

Now as far as Dyson's duty to the Blood King, my thought process is simple; he ignored whatever pledge he made when he conceded to a relationship with Bo. My issue in him not telling her about Aoife was more about the lack of respect he had for her as a romantic partner in that he carried on a relationship, in whatever capacity, with Bo for the duration of several months while lying to her.

Arachnafaebia- he put the needs of one above the needs of the city he was sworn to protect.

Blood King- He disregarded his duty by engaging in a relationship with Bo in the first place. His continueing to keep Trick's secret after the fact, just makes him a jerk.
ernestine henry
497. TheGardner
@minime- Where did Lauren say she was trying to cure Bo? These are the times I could think of when Lauren scienced her science for Bo:

The conversation with Trick in 3x05, which I will quote(thank you YouTube and the nerds who have spent the time to post all the Bo and Lauren moments) Lauren: "Well I am working on some new injections to curb Bo's hunger. She's developed a resistance to the old ones and since I can't keep up with her voracious sexual appetite, we're looking for someone who can. Uh, satisfy her coital requirements."

In 3x07 the formula she gives Bo in the insulin pens was to help arrest the underfae cells that were trying to take over, buying Bo time until she could cross the threshold.

If you are referring to 3x09 she tells both Dyson and Bo that she was trying to find a solution that would keep Bo from devolving, presumably if she failed the Dawning.
Nadine Robb
498. cmm
@TheGardner
In 3x07 the formula she gives Bo in the insulin pens was to help arrestthe underfae cells that were trying to take over, buying Bo time until she could cross the threshold.
Actually those pens she gave Bo were to control Bo's hunger. Bo only used them on the underfae as a way to stop her.
ernestine henry
499. TheGardner
@cmm- Bo and Lauren, 3x07 insulin pen scene, courtesy of YouTube:

Lauren(holds three injecters in her hand, presenting them to Bo)- "This formula will inhibit cell degredation by freezing the underfae cells that are trying to take over, rendering them temporarily sterile. If you feel yourself starting to loose control inject yourself."

Bo- "Even if you said in the eyeball it sounds more appealing than talking to my mom."

Lauren- "Emergency use only, those are the last three."

Bo- "Why can't you make more?"

Lauren- "The formula produces diminishing returns, with every injection it will work a little bit less."
ernestine henry
500. Char
Hey Everyone, in regards to the post, I just wanted to show how scyfy is giving more options to the viewers.

@whiskeywhite--Right now, cable channels are behind the curves on societal norms and behaviors in regards to sexual orientation and gender. I am thankful that Lost Girl is showing a woman who is not afraid of sex and her sex. But really, in my world that is all I see. However, it is great to see tv shows that show realistic body types. Now, it would be an advancement if they showed more women on tv with Bo's body and not only a size 2, especially when the average American figure for a woman is a size 12. That would be groundbreaking.
ernestine henry
501. whiskeywhite
@TheGardner -- way to go! Quoting the original dialogue. That's the way to substantiate an argument. You nailed it. Too many of us offer our impressions or vague memories (or wishful thinking) of what transpired as gospel truth. I would be tempted to say, if you can't prove it, don't say it, but that would inhibit our delightfully free-flowing discussion. But still, we should always ask ourselves, if I had to back this up with a direct quote, could I? Am I sure that's actually what happened on screen?

@Char -- I agree about images of women's bodies on TV. But I can't agree that LG shows realistic body types. Both Kenzi and The Morrigan are downright emaciated and project very unhealthy body images for women. I love Ksenia Solo to death as an actress, and her thinness may, to some extent, come naturally (although ballet, her background, is absolutely rife with anorexia and other eating disorders). But that woman has so much air space between her thighs that I often think she looks bowlegged. Bo is a tiny bit more beefy (as my partner would say, and luckily for me he's a big fan of beefy), but she only looks more "normal" because she's standing beside Kenzi. Anna Silk is no size 12 (and speaking of that I thought the average was actually size 14). I was not surprised to hear in a recent interview someone (I think it was Zoie Palmer) saying how "terrific" Anna looked coming back after having her baby. Read "thin".
Nadine Robb
502. cmm
@The Gardner that was still in reference to Bo. It was after she found out what she would become if she failed the dawning, cause if you watch later on Kenzi stabs her with them. There are a few instances where she gets glowy eyes and seems hungry.
ernestine henry
503. TheGardner
@cmm- Kenzi stabs her with them because Bo is loosing control in the same way she did in 3x05, it wasn't about hunger, it was primal. The reason the injector worked against Pretty Polly is because she is/was an underfae. The dialogue is very clear, but take it as you want I guess.

@whiskeywhite- eh I was to lazy to form an argument, but apparently even using a direct and specific quote leaves things open to debate. So much for taking the easy way out...
Nadine Robb
504. cmm
@TheGardner That is exactly what Bo was becoming, underfae hence why she takes it and hence why it also works on the underfae. If I remember correctly they didn't even realize there was an underfae there until they arrived. Bo's primary reason for going was to get closure because she couldn't move on and complete the dawning until that was done. But as you've said take it as you want.
Nadine Robb
505. cmm
Syringes and underfae aside, how does everyone think the fourth season will begin? Will it be Kenzi asking to become fae? Or Bo meeting the Wanderer?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
506. Kiersten
Pretty certain Bo doesnt show up till end of ep1/beginning of ep2. All reports are that the season begins with Kenzi, Hale, and Dyson reunited & looking for Bo/dealing with the fallout from the S3 finale and the resultant changes in the State of Fae. Eps 1&2 are supposedly a dual ticket, connected episodes that were filmed together like a mini-movie.
Nadine Robb
507. cmm
Sounds Interesting, thanks Kiersten. I wonder if they will let it premiere as a 2 hour episode or torture us with a two parter?
Nusi Dekker
508. NusiD
I think in ep1 Dyson will regain conciousness and find himself alone in the truck. He crawls out of the overturned truck and back up to the road. Meanwhile, Kenzi and Bruce are driving the Morrigan's Lamborghini on their way to see the Druid. They happen to see Dyson staggering along the road, and pick him up. Dyson relates what happened, that Tamsin was driving her truck and tried to run over Bo's father, but he disappeared right before impact, the truck cab filled with black smoke, and they crashed down a cliff. Tamsin seemed to have run off and Dyson doesn't know where she is. Kenzi asks Dyson where Bo is and he says last time he saw her she was still in Taft's compound, so they all head back there. On arrival the place is deserted, all the Fae and Lauren are gone.

They go back to the Dal, after they ditch the Lambo for a less conspicuous SUV, and find Hale, who went back to look for Kenzi. The find him standing in the middle of the destroyed bar, holding the Wanderer card with Bo's image on it. Kenzi never makes it to Mossimo.

Beats me what happens next. We will see Bo united with her father, and possibly Tamsin, but I can't imagine where they are. A different dimension? Scotland? Norway? Are they in Vahalla which is in the sky and the only way you can get there is astride a flying horse? I seem to recall that Trick took with him a scroll with a picture of a flying horse on it as he was fleeing the Dal.

It would be cool to see Peggy the travel agent again to transport the gang to Scotland to get Trick and bring him back, then plot how to rescue Bo, since now they know who has her and only Trick knows who he is and where he lives.

I don't have a clue what Lauren will be doing....
Nadine Robb
509. cmm
NusiD do you write for the show? This sounds completely plausible lol.
Linda Losik
510. LindaL
Expect for one small little fact: there are only two seats in the Lambo and no trunk....which begs the question of just who is going to be sitting on who's lap.....cannot really see Dyson and Bruce sharing a seat without a major giggle attack...:-)
Nusi Dekker
511. NusiD
Kenzi sits on Dyson's lap, of course...Bruce has to drive! It's the only way they can fit! Or...Dyson is just well enough to drive because he is the only one who knows where Taft's compound is, so Kenzi sits on Bruce's lap!

@cmm Just speculating...after all, that's the original purpose of this thread...
ernestine henry
512. TheGardner
Kenzi and Bruce have fallen in love, they sold The Morrigan's sports car for a ridiculous profit and opened an antiques shop.

Hale having now failed at being the Ash, and since the police force believes he has won the lottery, is forced to work security at the compound and take odd jobs.

Trick has returned from his jaunt in Scottland with Stella and has reclaimed his position in the heirarchy and is now the new Ash.

Bo and her father have bonded and are sitting around drinking coffee while their new pet Tamsin does the laundry.

Lauren having blackmailed both the new Ash and the Morrigan with her new skill in turning humans into fae, has retreated to her private island with the money she syphoned from Dr. Taft's now defunct operation.

Dyson having been cast out of Valhalla for his chronic flea condition wanders the earth aimlessly in search of industrial strength K9 Advantage.
ernestine henry
513. whiskeywhite
Good job @NusiD. Smile attack, @LindaL. Kenzi on Dyson's lap would be sweet, but I would much rather see Kenzi on dear Bruce's lap. Laugh out loud award of the day to @TheGardner for Kenzi and Bruce falling in love and opening an antique shop. Bruce would, of course, be the expert on rare old books of Fae poetry.

In a recent interview with Zoie Palmer and KHR at SDCC, Kris does talk about them looking for Bo in Ep. 4.01 as Kiersten says (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALLfA6FZma). Kris says, "But something has happened to us all" and Zoie adds, "Everybody has changed a little in season 4, we've sort of derailed a little tiny bit, and it's about figuring out now how we fit in, how the world will work since the shift. And it is a big shift." Kris goes on to say that we will get to see more of Dyson's backstory (Yay!), where he and Trick come from, and also other characters, including Lauren's backstory. Zoie tells us that we will see "how she came to be and what all that stuff about Karen is." You see, you folks ask "What is all this Karen sh*t business?" and now we'll get an answer. It's interesting that Zoie reacts to how Kris is describing the beginning of the new season in a way that suggests that Lauren is back from the beginning, or soon after. How they manage that, as you all have questioned so eloquently, will be interesting to see. In another interview with the two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMoqov1UHb4), Zoie says that we will learn about Lauren's "fate with the Fae, whether or not there is a future." You have to watch this second interview just to see the humorous banter between Kris and Zoie.

Ksenia Solo also gave some interesting interviews at SDCC (e.g.,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rbpLwi5z3Y). She talks about how different the dynamic is without Bo, and then everything eventually goes back "to how things used to be." She goes on to explain that at the end of season 3 all claimed humans have been declared terrorists, so "without Bo there, Kenzi has to relearn how to survive," use her street skills, her bravery, etc. "to not get killed." "There's a lot of suspense," she says, "things get very tense." She "gets herself into some bad situations" and "has to bail herself out." In another iterview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzr5ag--gJI) she says that the experience "hardens" Kenzi. No mention that we last saw Kenzi with her intrepid defender, dear Bruce, and the interviewers didn't have the wits to ask about him (or maybe they don't care, sniff). In the second interview she says that season 4 "is very interesting in the love department for Kenzi" with lots of "unexpected blossoming love", though not like Nate, she hastens to add.
Nadine Robb
514. cmm
@NusiD I know you were speculating, I was just having a little fun too lol.
ernestine henry
515. stacymd2
Wow! Hi all. 514 comments! I came here about a month ago, but wasn’t able to comment. I have been really busy at work. I hope all of you are having a great summer thus far. January is so close yet so far away. I am still exited for Season 4.

There is so much I want to respond to, but I don’t know where to begin. I have not read everything so I apologize if I am repeating a point someone already made above. There are so many great comments! Kiersten thank you for keeping this LG section alive and civil. (Civility is rare on most LG boards.) Also, it is nice to see new posters with new ideas…I can honestly say that I missed reading this board. I wish I had discovered it sooner.

Wishes for Season 4: 1) backstories on Trick, Kenzi, Dyson, Tamsin and Hale that develop their characters; 2) Aofie and Trick to have that heart to heart conversation that they need to have; 3) World building – more light/dark Fae history and politics; 4) Better Monsters of the Week storylines that fit in with the overall season story arc; 5) A bigger production budget; 6) Continuity - Someone to pay attention to the show’s history and established myths; 7) Bo/Lauren to get the same two years apart treatment that Bo/Dyson have gotten; 8) Onscreen romance for Kenzi/Hale, Dyson/Anyone & Trick/Stella, 9) More cool side characters like Bruce, Ryan, etc., 10) Bo having affairs with people who are not named Dyson & Lauren.

It is hilarious that doccubus/anti-Dyson seem to hang on to him not telling Bo about Aofie in Season one, despite all of the truly underhanded things Lauren has done season after season. (Also, despite his pleading with Trick to tell Bo HIS secret and how insane Aofie turned out to be.) It is also funny how Dyson, like Tamsin, is seen as such a big threat to Bo/Lauren. Dyson and Bo have not been in a relationship for two years. Tamsin has just come on the show. Bo has picked Lauren and put her first from the beginning of Season 2. They would like nothing more than for LG to be about Bo/Lauren, Kenzi & Trick fawning over them, Tamsin to be off the show and Dyson to have fleas and go away. This is why Doccubus is hysterically angry about the last half of Season 3 & Tamsin’s presence on the show.

The fact that Tamisn, Trick, Dyson, Hale and Kenzi had nothing to do with Bo/Lauren’s break up is ignored.

I am truly disturbed by the venom being hurled at RS and the character of Tamsin. This is just a TV show, about a succubus no less. That fandom has really taken their “devotion” to another level. It is a testament to RS’s acting and the LG writers to trigger such a virulent response. Tamsin is a much more interesting character than Lauren. This may be why Tamsin is so hated. The writers have to shoe horn in ridiculous backstories, inflate her education/degrees and change her personality to make Lauren remotely interesting. Her being with Bo is the only interesting thing about Lauren.

I agree and partially disagree with the comment above about TV shows and social commentary. Yes, all TV shows/art/plays/stories/whatever reflect or deal with social issues, but people put WAY to much value/thought into pop culture—especially pop culture that isn’t meant to be deep, just entertaining.

I strongly believe that LG is not breaking new ground—or at least much of it. LG is a mesh of MANY scifi/fantasy/supernatural stories that came before it. Most of which were actually ground breaking and better produced. If you have seen: Xena, Star Trek (any of its various shows), Buffy, Angel, Stargate, Supernatural, The X-men (cartoons and comics), Mutant X, Dark Angel, Tru Calling, Alias, Charmed, Farscape, Witchblade, Bionic Woman, Ghost Whisperer, Alphas, True Blood, The L Word, Sanctuary, Hex, – OMG I can go on and on—then you know Lost Girl isn’t original in any way. (Wow, I watch way too many genre programming.)

As far as the repeated statement that LG isn’t “sex shaming” I don’t believe that at all. Bo’s sex drive is exclusively tied to her biological need to eat. Bo has gone from (emotionally) monogamous relationship to (emotionally) monogamous relationship. Has Bo ever really had sex just for fun? There is a clear line drawn between Bo vs. Kenzi/Lauren’s sexual relationships. Bo is the only character shown to have multiple sexual partners. How is this not sex shaming? Dyson has been sexually shamed—by Lauren and Bo—for having numerous ONS/girlfriends. Hale has been all talk and no show when it comes to his sexual life. Trick is clearly monogamous. The only other characters that have been mentioned to have multiple sexual partners are Vex and the Morrigan, both of whom are comical villains.

There are so many things I want to respond to but I have to cut off this comment at some point. My final thought is about homophobia, specifically about being called a homophobe and/or hetero normative for not liking Lauren and B/L. I am a staunch liberal and I consider myself a feminist. (In college I took a huge emotional and verbal beating for standing up gay rights and marriage in a class—in high school too. I was called names & degraded in a very large classroom for the semester. Some of the other kids shunned me. Eight years ago, in FL, there was some amendment to have marriage be b/w only a man & a woman, I helped to campaign against it.)

I consider being called a hetero normative homophobe (not on this site, but on others) deeply insulting and hurtful. I ship MANY m/m and f/f relationships or pairings. My not liking Lauren has nothing to do with her being a lesbian and everything to do with her constant lying, know-it-all, self-righteous attitude, dull personality, silly backstory and overblown education. Also, she just isn’t a good match for Bo, neither long nor short term. I do not see the EPIC, MATURE love story that doccubus seems to see.

Taste is subjective, but this show has pushed hard over two and a half seasons to convince us that B/L are soul mates, so I think I should see something. I don’t.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
516. Kiersten
Hey @stacymd2!! Welcome back, thanks for hanging in with this long thread and addding your voice to the discussion.
ernestine henry
517. LostgirlFan
@stacymd2 everything you said is completely spot on and could not have said it better myself. You definately will become one of my favorite posters here just for the mere fact that you like Tamsin like I do. Glad to see that a couple of people here has Tamsin's back. I am utterly disgusted by people's behavior towards a tv character and the actor that plays the character.
ernestine henry
518. stacymd2
Thanks Kiersten! Hi LostgirlFan!

Does anyone else think that if TPTB had put Tamsin & Dyson together they would have been a more interesting couple than B/L? I Love D & T’s buddy cop relationship as is, but I can’t help but think if D & T got together they would over shadow B/L greatly. Sadly, I think the EA will always hook Dyson up with vanilla partners like Ciara in the future in order to not outshine Bo & Lauren.

I still feel that B/D will never get back together. TPTB spent half of Season 2 making Dyson unlikeable and all of Season 3 friend/Xander (Buffy) zoning him. They threw his fans a half-eaten Milk-Bone by saying the “ask me again in 100 years” thing. To me, it is obvious Bo will not be with Dyson in 50 years, yet alone a 100. She takes him and all that he does for her for granted. E.g. her blocking comment during the Dawning and her not seeming to care about taking him away from the killing fields case to help her search for Lauren.

I am actually OK with Dyson finding another partner, as long as she is as dynamic as he is. I like LG and some of the other characters (Hale, Kenzi, Trick, Dyson, Tamsin, Morrigan & Vex) enough to stick with it.

@Lainer: I would love a Vex/Kenzi/Hale triangle. Vex and Hale are so wildly different the triangle would actually be interesting. I can believably see Kenzi with both guys.

@cmm: I think that the L/B/D triangle ended with S3E1. D & L did not fight over Bo at all in S3. B/L officially got together in S3E1 and Dyson has not been a major factor in B/L’s relationship since he lost his love in Season 2.

With all of the malice being directed at RS, Tamsin and Dyson I can’t seem to stress enough how neither of them broke up B/L. If Dyson had moved back to Scotland in S3E2 and Tamsin was hit by a bus in Brazenwood, B/L would have still broken up. Their break up was natural and organic to that relationship. Lauren was clearly not happy—mentally or professionally. Lauren knows that she and Bo are fundamentally different on an emotional level—not to mention on a basic educational/IQ level. Lauren being human was also not really a major factor in their break up.

The hate of Dyson is only because he is an interesting male character who Bo still cares for and the hate on Tamsin is only because she is an interesting female character who would be a better partner for Bo than Lauren.

Much of the back and forth between the comments here is because of the show’s major plot holes and inconsistencies with their established myths. E.g. Lauren’s shots in S3E7, Lauren’s chosen indentured servitude, Why the taboo on Fae/Human and Light/Dark, Do all Fae prey on humans, etc.

The last thing, humans are Fea food, must be cleared up. Clearly Vex, Trick, Dyson, Hale, Hale’s family, the Cabbit, the Brownie, Trick’s dancer friend, the furies, Ryan, Bruce, Lachan, the crying Fae that was saved in Brazenwood, the Fae that ate nightmares and others do not eat/kill humans. Since Bo can feed without killing then I assume that other Fae can do the same. Is that the distinction between Light & Dark?
Suzanne Metaxas
519. SuzyM
Hi @stacymd2 :) I agree with many of the points you made. I do like Dyson & Tamsin as partners but don't think I'd like her a a love interest unless they made a Bo/Dyson/Tamsin triagle ;) which can never happen because Tamsin is Dark Fae. Unless there is someway for her to leave the Dark and pledge to the Light. Dyson having sex with Tamsin on any day other than La Shoshane = death sentence :(

I remember Trick telling Bo that all Fae fed in some way from humans, guessing that could mean anything from sucking Chi to absorbing happiness vibes given off from humans :D

I will not tell a lie, if they do not bring Dyson and Bo back together soon I will not be an avid watcher of Lost Girl. I will probably tune in once anda while to see what is going on but doubt I will be glued to my TV to see new episodes when the first broadcast. To me if there is no hope of happiness for Dyson then I'm just moving on. I'm sure KHR will star in other things I can watch ;)

My relationshp with Lost Girl is like anyother relationship. LG promised me a happy Bo/Dyson, they broke that promise and are now handing me crap, therefore I will soon want a divorce :D
ernestine henry
520. LostgirlFan
@stacymd2 amd SuzyM to be honest if it weren't for Tamsin I am not
sure I'd watch LG either. I too am sick and tired of being force fed Bo
and Lauren. They are the worst couple ever! They have very little in
common emotionally and or intellectually. I personally really like Zoie
Palmer she is very funny and witty, but the writers have totally ruined
Lauren. They should have made her a strong sexy powerful dark fae.
She would have been way more appealing at least to me. Basically she
Zoie Palmer should have been Tamsin. As it is she wasn't written even
remotely enduring at all.

As far as Vex and Kenzi well I don't know after all back in season 1
the dark fae world had a strict policy of not cohabitating with humans.
If Vex turns out to be the new Morrigan which I hope so cuz I adore Vex. I don't think the Dark Fae elders will go along with him and the
kenzi experiment. Actually I would like for kenzi not to get involved
with anyone, but from what Ksenia Solo said in an interview. Kenzi's
love life is about to get some action.

For what it's worth Suzy even though I am a Valkubus shipper I'd much rather see Dyson with Bo than Bo with Lauren, of course only
if Tamsin and Bo won't hook up. BTW hello back at ya Stacymd2 :)
Suzanne Metaxas
521. SuzyM
@LostgirlFan I agree I would rather see Tamsin & Bo than Lauren and Bo but my heart belongs to Dyson :D There was so much promised there that never came through. Maybe we can have Tamsin hook up with Lauren and teach her how to be stronger :) I would go for that!

I want to see Kenzi and Hale hook up. That is another promise that was made and reneged on.

I think they could also bring back Erica Luttrell (Hale's sister) and make her competition for Bo :) I would love to see how Bo would like having to share Dyson! :D
ernestine henry
522. stacymd2
@SuzyM: Hi! I hear you. During most of S2 and the first half of S3 I wasn’t sure if I was going to stick around. Kenzi/KS and Dyson/KHR kept me watching. I don’t think that will change in S4 unless EA makes Dyson unlikeable for no reason and/or KHR goes to Orphan Black or another good show. (Side Note: Wouldn’t it be amazing if KHR was on Orphan Black? Another of my favorite shows on BBAis Copper. I would just melt if KHR, Tom Weston-Jones, Kevin Ryan, Kyle Schmid and Ato Essandoh were on my screen at the same time. Make it happen universe!) I am convinced that B/D will not happen again. D was just to friend zoned in S3 for me to believe otherwise. Also, that is how these things work. Did Buffy end up with Angel, Spike, Riley? Whedon had to tell his story and grow the character. Are either of the Supernatural boys with any one of their love interests? Even Xena didn’t really end up with Gabriel in the end. I wasn’t expecting a happily ever after for Bo & Dyson.
I still don’t understand why Light and Dark Fae cannot have a sexual or romantic relationship with each other. It doesn’t make sense to me. Will their babies have mutations? Will it cause a rift in the space time continuum? Will it release the Kraken? Lost Girl needs to clarify its myths/world. LG is three seasons in and we still don’t know much about the Fae world.
@LostgirlFan: I like Zoie Palmer too. She has such a sweet and funny personality. I wish Lauren had a thimble full of it. I too believe TPTB has diminished Lauren from S2 on. It is so funny because (from the post above) EA reportedly thinks Lauren is a complex character that she loves to write for. If I can’t have B/D then I am OK with B/T. Tamsin has never bored me or made me roll my eyes.
ernestine henry
523. stacymd2
I want to apologize for the long posts. It’s been a while and I don’t know when I’ll be able to comment again. Things are already picking up steam at work… :-(

There are two other things that have bothered me about EA and doccubus. 1) This ridiculous belief that there is anything wrong with liking a shirtless Dyson. I like Dyson and KHR for more than his looks. There are plenty of shows with great looking, half clothed men that I can spend my time on. (Side Note: Is anyone else into Vikingson History Channelas much as I am? No?) I don’t watch LG to see Dyson/KHR shirtless. But if I did, then so what? Doccubus can go on and on about Lauren’s hair & arms and Bo’s ample cleavage. What pisses me off most is EA, I expect that type of hypocrisy from a fandom not a show runner. I can only wonder about how she treats KHR in real life.

2) According to that fan site Tamsin is only on the show for T&A and to pull in younger viewers. Really? LG doesn’t need any more T&A. They didn’t need to go to the expense of hiring a new actress for T&A. RS (28) and AS (39) may be 11 years apart, but they look about the same age, so Tamsin is not there to pull in a younger demo or new viewers. KS (25) doesn’t pull in younger viewers? If Tamsin was only there for T&A she didn’t show much of it. But, if those are the only reasons for her presence, then so what? Lost Girl is not a deep show. (Kitsune make-out sessions. Dancing Morrigan in her underwear. Stella and the models. Need I go on?)

(IMHO) If the creators wanted to do something different then they would have hired a homely woman to play the part of Bo. Think about it. How different would LG be if Bo had genuine body issues? Or a succubus that was afraid to have sex. What if she was afraid that people only liked her because of her powers and not for who she is? What if Bo got beautiful people to have sex with her using her powers, but when she doesn’t no one gives her the time of day. How different would we see Dyson & Lauren if they fell in love with Bo despite being homely and without her using her succubus powers?

Finally, the Dawning…(it’s been on my mind for some reason)…I thought it was Bo’s subconscious where ZP played the role of alt-Dyson and KHR played the role of alt-Lauren until Dyson snaps out of the alt-dream. What I drew from the Dawning is that when Bo thinks of a “hetero normative” life, she thinks of her and Lauren, not Dyson. Lauren is the amazing super doctor. Lauren is the one who bakes. Lauren is the one who she has spoken to about children (S3E1). Lauren is the one trying to control her nature with injections. (@ TheGardner: This may not be Lauren’s intension, but I think on a subconscious level Bo dislikes the injections and thinks they harm her.)
Suzanne Metaxas
524. SuzyM
@Stacymd2 I had a total different take on the Dawning. I felt that Bo's subconscious was telling her her that it was Dyson she truly loved and that is why it reversed thier rolls.
ernestine henry
525. Char
@stacymd2---Will it release the kraken? ROTFLMAO! TOO Much! And loved everything you had to say.

I do not want Dyson with Bo for at least a few hundreds years. I'm ok with it !
ernestine henry
526. Char
Ohh...the Dawning...could not understand it. I had to watch it several times. I believe everyone was who they were suppose to be. I understand Kenzi, the frightened girl who does not believe that Bo the police officer will protect her. Trick who clearly believes that humans are less than Fae. That's where it ends and my mind is confused...Lauren is a police officer who gave her love away to Nadia? Or Dyson who gave his love away to the Norn? Then Dyson the Dr who is giving her pills to make her feel better. Then Tamsin with bloody hands. Not to mention, Bo had a vision of her father when she was only a baby. Her father was influencing her Dawning too. I mean "the Wanderer" song was playing. This all adds up to Bo is afraid that she may not be able to protect Kenzi. She also believes that humans are inferior. her body was rejecting the pills. Not her true nature. She really loved Dyson but not anymore. Tamsin has hurt alot of people. And her father knew and loved her.
Marie Sullivan
527. Minime
Hi All been crazy busy at work, as for the dawning imo Dyson was the doctor, and ob/gyn to be precise because LOL he heals Bo. He's hes her um lady doctor LOL. Lauren was the partner because that is what Bo wants from a relationship a "your work is my work" relationship similar to what she had with Dyson and I think Kyle to a point they also seemed to share friends and adventures. She even states this to Lauren in an episode, delinquents i think. Also Dyson was told about the switch after officer Lewis appeared.
Pandra Selivanov
528. Zanza
Hi, everybody! Wow, I didn't think anybody was still talking about Lost Girl and now I check in and there's over 500 comments! I don't really have anything to add, except to say I hope Lauren gets a life far far from Bo, I hope Bo leaves Dyson alone except as a friend until she's ready to settle down, and can we please have Kenzi back and not kill Tamsin? I love Tamsin! As to the Doccubutts, I don't even like to think about them. Let's face it, if you don't drool all over the couch when Bo and Lauren are on the screen together, they're going to hate you and say horrible things about you. Better to accept it and just not stress about it. Oh, and I hope Bruce stays. How adorable was Bruce?
ernestine henry
529. Char
@Minime-Dawning?! So Dyson is Bo's healer and he takes care of her lady parts. Then why was he givin her the pills? Shouldn't it have been Lauren the police officer? And when Botells Lauren, you gave your love away...is that about the relationship dying between Lauren and Bo or was she talking about Dyson? Thanks!

this episode confused me the most. I get symbolism in dreams but idk.
Marie Sullivan
530. Minime
Hi Char, yes the dawning. While with the dawning the writers really tried to do something different and perhaps filled with symbolism I think that their were too many plot holes and well…., deep symbolism is a bit too much of a reach for them IMO.

Dyson couldn't have hijacked Bo's dawning or switched places with Bo because he didn't know he could do that till after the Bo & Lauren police scene. I think that Dyson & DL were not really themselves but representative of her relationships as a whole and past partners. Dyson represented parts of both he and Lauren and the same went for Lauren she was parts of Dyson & herself. Both Lauren & Dyson had given their love away to others and both Dyson and Lauren were pushing things on her. The pills can represent both sex and the injections, just think of the scene where she is "monogamous" and Dyson gives her a choice sex with him or an ambulance and think of Lauren in The Ceremony rather then answering any of Bo's 20 or so texts she was busy trying to science a cure of some kind. But Dyson is Bo's healer Lauren does little more then study her and diagnose her so while she is a doctor she doesn't heal Bo. Dyson makes sense to me as the gynecologist in her subconscious and Lauren as the partner. Or I could just be giving the writers too much credit and they wanted to give the Lauren fans a treat and put her in a police uniform and make Dyson seem silly as a gyno.
Nadine Robb
531. cmm
I agree with you Minime. I was about to post something similar. The dawning to me was very silly because it seemed like there very evolution depended on a state of mind. If you didn't think positively and thought only negative thoughts you de-evolved. It just didn't make sense to me. It was up there with the bone marrow transplant that made Taft fae. I feel like they should of written far more on it than what they did. They should of also shown more of Taft and his story before the end finale.

I'm really sad this year, that I won't get you're awesome recaps Kiersten. I really wanted to rely on those to tell me if I should watch the episode. I feel like i'm slowly losing interest in the series. Its not even the Dyson and Bo relationship, it's the fact that characters that should of evolved didn't. For example Trick as people have mentioned it seems like he doesn't like humans that much and values their lives more than fae. I would agree with this assessment however, there are seasons where you see he really cares for Kenzi. So I don't know. They need to pick a side of the fence for Trick to sit on and leave him there. Also with regards to Trick, I feel he uses Bo way too much. It's to the point where I think he only likes her as a servant and not a family member.

Lastly, the human/fae hybrid information that we got season 1 about humans and fae that have children, needs to be changed. Or they need have Lauren explain how she made Taft a hybrid. It's not right for them to change canon so far into the series. I'm hoping that what was tweeted a month back (I think) will explain this. Also, the show likes to show humans = weak, fae= strong. I don't believe this, because if humans were so weak why would the fae fear them. I feel like humans are just as strong as fae and smarter too. I'm tired of them saying Kenzi is strong certain episodes and the next she's not as strong because she's human. Again like trick they need to pick a side and stay with it.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
532. Kiersten
Ah - it's okay, @cmm. I'll be here recapping season 4 of Lost Girl. Have no fear. ;)

For those who missed it, I am recapping the phenomenal Orphan Black this summer in Hiatus Rewatch Recaps Feel free to head on over and have a read - and maybe a comment ;)
Suzanne Metaxas
533. SuzyM
OK I'm going to say this again, DYSON DID NOT GIVE HIS LOVE AWAY. The Norn ripped it from his heart. He offered his wolf, his very essence to the Norn & never realized she would take his love of Bo. When she told him what she was taking as she ripped it from his heart he tried to stop her. He never would have made that deal because Bo meant too much to him. He would have taken his chances and gone to help her even though he promised not to rather than lose the love of her. Lauren on the other hand made a conscious decision to stay with Nadia and not Bo.
Nadine Robb
534. cmm
@Kiersten are you going to watch in November though? That's when it will air for me. If yes WUHOOO! I'm not, awwwww.
ernestine henry
535. LostgirlFan
@SuzyM I totally get your Dyson love, but I'm totally confused with EA saying one thing but doing another. She and Jay have said that the
triangle will probably never go away, but what freaking triangle???
Bo and Dyson have only been friends since the Norn incident in
season 1. Bo for most of season 2 wasn't involved with either Lauren
or Dyson. She finally committed to Lauren on a monogomus level
meaning only Lauren has Bo and no one else. I want the writers and
producers to stop playing games and clearly define the perameters of said triangle, if it in fact even still exists as they say it does.

@Zanza yea!!! another Tamsin fan!!!! totally agree 100% with every
thing you said, and hope to see you more :). Even though I am a rabid
Tamsin fan I love talking LG in general. BTW what are your favorite
3 scenes so far of all three seasons of LG, and what do you want to see
happen for season 4?

@Stacymd2 OMG " Will it release the Kracken? " I too laughed my butt off at that comment it was freaking hilarious!!!!!! I also love the new
show " Vikings " on the history channel. The guy that plays the lead is so damn hot it's not even funny! Travis Fimmell is his name he plays Ragnar. Travis Fimmell is just as hot as Rachel Skarsten is playing Tamsin. Wow If those two ever met Travis and Rachel and got married I don't know who I'd be more jealous of????? Not sure if I'd be jealous of Rachel cuz she got to be with him or if I'd be jealous of Travis cuz he got to be with her? Damn I think I just need a cold shower about now!!!!
Are you saying that the doccubus website said that the only reason why
Tamsin is on the show cuz of the Tits and ass thing? No offense to Rachel cuz I gotta major crush on her but she doesn't exactly have
Anna's ample tits or a great ass for that matter. What she does have is
unbelieveably exquiste beauty, so they are wrong on the T&A aspect.
Besides everything they say there is slanted towards Bo and Lauren and anything that interferes with that relationship is a target. That is
why I don't even bother going to the doccubus website cuz they obviously can't be objective about anything. LOL you are right LG isn't exactly known as a deep show LOLOLOLOL!!!!!! As far as the Yawning oops I mean the Dawning goes well I thought it was all one big mess of an episode. I don't even bother trying to watch it on youtube. Well that and Tamsin has only a cameo appearance.

@Cmm the writers and producers have really screwed up alot of things when it comes to LG and if they don't fix alot of the failings there may not be a season 5?

@Kiersten yea!!!!! glad to hear you are recapping season 4 you just made my day :)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eveyone keeps talking about that new show Orphan Black but I never even heard of the show until I started hanging out in the LG websites.
What is the fuss all about? I am going to assume that it's a Canadian show cuz no network that I know of here in the States promotes it?
I guess I can go check it out on youtube, but would be grateful if someone would convince why I should bother?
Kiersten Hallie Krum
536. Kiersten
@cmm - um...that I don't know that. Typically and historically, we follow the U.S. schedule since, well, we're in the U.S. But how we'll approach the recap schedule for S4 is still being discussed.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
537. Kiersten
@LostGirlFan - ck out Orphan Black. The showrunners are former producers of Lost Girl and are largely responsible for the fantastic S1 of LG. They are now front-running OB, which is complex and smart and funny and layered and sexy - many of the things LG once was. I love it but there's a part of me that's always a little sad watching it as I realize this high level of genre drama is what Lost Girl once was and was meant to be.

As for the triangle, the parameters are thus: Bo is in love with and instinctively trusts Dyson. That has been long established since S1 (especially in E12) and stated unequivocably in S2E2 by Bo herself. Neither Bo nor the show has ever contested or denied it in all the shenanigans that make up S2 & S3. That they are not together as a couple does not negate the continuing depth of her love for him or his for her. That is why she has to expressly state that she's not going to leave her relationship with DL just b/c he got his love back. Her feelings for him are not changed but the status of his place in her romantic life definitely has. This is also why Doctor Lauren is so afraid whenever Bo and Dyson are involved in a case or indeed even in the same room together and it is the driving force behind her "No Dyson" rule. It's not that she doesn't trust Dyson; it's that she knows how much Bo loves him and ultimately, doesn't trust Bo.

Bo made a conscious decision/choice to honor her existing relationship because she's not a dick and she wasn't going to leap away from DL just because Dyson's metaphysical state supernaturally righted itself. Also, her feelings for DL didn't change just because she learned about his changed state either. Frankly, I would have been the first to object had she done otherwise because it would've been a crap thing to do and would've always been a weakness underminding Bo and Dyson's relationship moving forward.

And Dyson doesn't ask her too because he is only situationally a jackhole and is at heart a noble man. He has no desire to hurt the woman he loves by putting her in a difficult emotional position. That's why he took so long to tell her about the returned love: he didn't want to interfere with her existing relationship that superficially appeared to make her happy.

Bo is also in love with Doctor Lauren. To Bo, there has never been an either/or when it comes to how she feels about her two main loves. There has been an either/or when it comes to with whom she is in a relationship, and that's partly her on-going fallacy of a pipe-dream of a monogamous, white-picket fence relationship and partly because she wants to honor her partners by being as faithful to them as possible. Fidelity is not a bad thing, merely an extremely complicted concept to adhere to when you're a succubus. This then is the "triangle" to which everyone constantly refers.

I do not for a moment think Dyson has EVER been "Friend-zoned". It's a popular excuse generated by some fans who desperately wish Dyson would just go away so Bo can be full-on with the ladies with men as a sometimes side dish to her feeding needs, which is not Bo's bi-sexual nature at all. What actually happened is that Bo told him she wasn't prepared to run out on DL like some fickle, shallow twit just because his emotion status changed. That's a very mature and commendable decision and one of the few things S3 Bo did that wasn't juvenile and self-focused. But she is still royally pissed he didn't tell her because it is a BFD and does mean a great deal to her. Take DL out of the picture for a moment and imagine that Bo does not have a new relationship in place when Dyson gets his love back. I believe she still wouldn't have leaped back to him because what The Norn (Freaking Norn!) did to Dyson and his changed character and behavior as a result of that lost love, deeply wounded Bo. There's work yet to be done there that a mere returned-love status isn't enough to automatically heal.

Bo and Dyson are uniquely paired. She (and he, for that matter) may go off with other loves like DL and perhaps Tamsin, and those are/could be genuine, sincere love relationships, but ultimately she will always touchback to Dyson because, as the show has demonstrated over and over again (and most dramatically and undeniably in Bo's breakdown over Dyson's dead body in Ceremony), she can't do without him nor he without her.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
538. Kiersten
@LostGirlFan - sorry, I missed addressing your main question. So when EA, JF, et al say the triangle is never going away, they mean that this conflict of "whom will Bo ultimately choose?" with regard to Dyson and DL will continue throughout the series, basically so that they don't alienate either main fan base beyond repair before the show completes its run and thus when it no longer matters to ratings and/or PR.
Nadine Robb
539. cmm
I don't know why they just don't put her together with both of them. She's a succubus for heaven's sakes. Even Aoife has her multiple partners.

@LostgirlFan I'm sure there will probably be a season 5, but the question for me is, will it be the last? There's only so much people tolerate and Lostgirl is heading towoards dangerous territory now.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
540. Kiersten
@cmm - according to KS, KHR, and ZP, the watchword of SDCC was "threesome!" ;)
Suzanne Metaxas
541. SuzyM
@LostgirlFan :) never been a secret as to my Dyson love, yet that has nothing to do with what I said. People totally misinterpret the Norn incident and curse constantly and that just bugs me ;)

Bo spent S2 pining after Dyson for the first half and sort of accepting for the 2nd half. Yet she always needed him.

S3 beginning was all Lauren and that's fine except the relationship wasn't one that could last as the writers wrote it. Lauren couldn't handle Bo and knew it. That is why she was so afraid of Dyson working with Bo even though she didn't know D had his love back. She knew that once Bo knew D had his love back it was only a matter of time before they were back together again. Dyson because of his long agony of being without Bo and seeing how much it hurt her has matured to the point where he is putting her feelings first and willing to wait for her to take him back again. I know that you probably see things differently :D and that is more than OK, different views are what make life fun ;)
Pandra Selivanov
542. Zanza
@Zanza yea!!! another Tamsin fan!!!! totally agree 100% with every thing you said, and hope to see you more :). Even though I am a rabid Tamsin fan I love talking LG in general. BTW what are your favorite 3 scenes so far of all three seasons of LG, and what do you want to see happen for season 4?
Hey, LostGirlFan! Since you ask, one of my favorite scenes of all time is when Kenzi plops down on the couch with Bo and Dyson and demands a foot rub and Dyson rubs her feet. I love that scene because it really shows what a good match Bo and Dyson are. They're so into each other, but they also totally love Kenzi, so the three of them make one happy family.

Another favorite scene is when Bo and Dyson bring Kenzi out of the kitsune's cave. They're so relieved to have her back-it's a very loving scene, but it's also great because Tamsin is there too. And you can just see how much she wants to be part of that group and have that love in her life.

My third favorite scene is with Kenzi and Bruce at the end of season three-just everything with those two, taking the car and him talking about medieval fae poetry, they're so cute together.

As to what I want for season four, like I said, Lauren should not be with Bo. They never had any chemistry, their relationship became so toxic it was starting to remind me of season six Buffy and Spike, and Lauren burned her boats with the Fae and with Bo, so a reboot at this point would be so stupid. Bo should stick to being friends with Dyson until she's ready to commit, then she should get with him. I want to see Kenzi stay human, be nice if Trick could stop being a jerk, and I'm curious to see what happens with Hale. And Dyson and Tamsin! They cannot possibly be dead, but they look like they're in a bad spot-I'm looking forward to their friendship developing as they get out of trouble and back to Bo.
ernestine henry
543. Char
Dawning--Still don't understand it. But what can you do!

@Kiersten--Would love to watch Orphan Black, but I do not have BBC! Yes, I am crying inside! No Sherlock, No Orphan Black, and No Dr Who!

@SuzyM--yes, Dyson Did not give his love away. So now I'm even more confused on what Bo and Lauraen were talking about in the Dawning.

Anyone can tell me some other shows that are on right now that I can watch until Lost Girl, Being human and Haven comes back to tv? Right now, I'm watching Perception!
Kiersten Hallie Krum
544. Kiersten
@Char - Orphan Black is on BBCAmerica. I know its not a basic cable channel, but just wanted to clarify. If you have paid channels StrikeBack on Cinemax is amazing action show & debuts new season tonight. Suits on USA is pretty good tho not an auto watch for me.
Marie Sullivan
545. Minime
@Char I like Covert Affairs but the earlier seasons this season is WAY too much Auggie for me. I am not a big Auggie fan. If you have netflix check out the series Luther with Idris Elba. His chemestry with Ruth Wilson makes my tv screen melt. Sherlock and Copper are on netflix also. I don't know why but I have an odd obsession with Francis on Copper, something about a scruffy faced bad boy with just the right amount of good to make you love him.
Kiersten Hallie Krum
546. Kiersten
I have a hard time with Copper as every single woman character in season one was portrayed/written as a scheming, manipulative bitch or whining weight or shrill, nagging wife with which the poor, put upon men had to deal. Also, that little girl creeped me the hell out. Sherlock is genius though. Luther is great work but very, very dark. I stopped after S1 on that too. That said, I'm a big fan of The Walking Dead if a late-comer to that show.
Marie Sullivan
547. Minime
Love Walking Dead, I usually tivo and marathon each season. I would love Copper more if Corkey left, to me he is the most boring character and unfortunately the central character. Oh if you can catch repeats check out Beauty & The Beast on the CW it's sweet & sexy with lots of action. Cat is whom Bo should be at this point in the LG universe.
Marie Sullivan
548. Minime
Oh and RS (Tamsin) is in Beauty & The Beast she has a small part as Cat's stepmom
Kiersten Hallie Krum
549. Kiersten
Sorry, Minime, I loathe Beauty & the Beast. Couldnt get past premise - No way that girl is a cop - & then oy, so whiny & ugh. But then I'm hardly the demographic that CW stuff isnt. Also couldnt get through Nikita despite many ppl telling me how good it is and LOTS of my fave genre actors making appearances. Genuinely tried to watch it & couldnt get through a whole episode. Cringing left and right
Kiersten Hallie Krum
549. Kiersten
Sorry, Minime, I loathe Beauty & the Beast. Couldnt get past premise - No way that girl is a cop - & then oy, so whiny & ugh. But then I'm hardly the demographic that CW stuff isnt. Also couldnt get through Nikita despite many ppl telling me how good it is and LOTS of my fave genre actors making appearances. Genuinely tried to watch it & couldnt get through a whole episode. Cringing left and right
Marie Sullivan
550. Minime
You have to get past the first 4 episodes of B&B. I almost turned it off during the first episode because the partner Tess' accent was so bad. Also, I had a few other Tess issues, I am sure you also being from NJ also picked up that any girl rocking a Staten Island accent that bad sure as hell knows how to spot a real Louis Vuitton purse and how much they cost. In the premiere Tess didn't know a LV purse or where to get a knock off in NYC. After the 4th episode it picked up and Tess lost her "NY" accent plus it got sexy. I don't like Nikita either. Necessary Roughness on USA is fun.
ernestine henry
551. Oh
Salvatore Antonio is on Saving Hope as Nurse Victor Reis.
ernestine henry
552. whiskeywhite
I have to admit that I watch and enjoy B&B. It's the sappy juvenile romantic in me. I agree that in the first episode I thought, "Hello Edward", when Vincent watched Catherine from a rooftop. But it has gotten better. I agree that tiny Catherine isn't too believable as a kickass cop but I like Tess more and more. It is the perfect example of a series where they drag out the suspense of the first kiss that you have all contrasted with LG. They went 17 episodes and got to the point of declaring undying love for each other before they kissed. :-)

I was a fan of the original B&B TV series from the late 80s with Ron Perlman and Linda Hamilton (who of course appeared in LG Season 3).

Good catch, Minime, Rachel Skarsten was in B&B as the young woman marrying Cat's much older father. The series is filmed in Toronto although supposedly taking place in NY.

I have wondered for a while why H&H isn't covering B&B. It is romance and little else. Nobody willing? H&H was covering "Arrow" for a while when there was no romance. Now that's there's romance, there's no coverage.
ernestine henry
553. LostgirlFan
@Kiersten thanks for the heads up about Ophan Black. I'll try finding some episodes on youtube :). The fact that the producers set things up how they did was kinda dumb if you think about it. You should be free to tell a story how you want the story to develope and grow. It seems as if they painted/wrote themselves into the perverbial corner. They will constantly be beholden to the doccubus crowd, and try and not piss the other fans off at the same time. I am sorry but they were completely short sided IMO. If I were the producer I would have kept Bo completely unattached to anyone. She is a succubus so shouldn't she be banging lots of partners without any strings? Seems as if they tamed the succubus and turned all her partners into sad sad piners in the worst way. Did I see you tell cmm that the keyword in SDCC was threesome? I hope they weren't referring to a threesome between Bo, Lauren, and Dyson? I am sorry but that would be a big ewwww!!!!!! @SuzyM I understand your frustration over the whole Dyson gave his love away. It is true he didn't give his love away he was tricked by the Norn. He was trying to give his wolf away to give more strength to Bo. What I think is facinating is since it was his love that she took and gave to Bo instead of his wolf she still had enough strength to beat her mother. You would think that getting Dyson's love instead of his wolf wouldn't do her any good but obviously it did help her to win. @ Zanza yeah I liked all those scenes too those are some good ones. Yes Tamsin did look like she wanted to be part of the happy sunshine gang didn't she? Don't worry about Dyson and Tamsin surviving that crash they did, because the wanderer wisked them out of the truck cab via black smoke. If you watch the scene again you'll notice black smoke coming out of the cab of the truck as they go over the cliff. Tamsin and Dyson was that smoke. Hope I helped you out there Zanza :).
Kiersten Hallie Krum
554. Kiersten
@LostGirlFan - the "threesome" watch word at SDCC came via KHR & ZP. It was a joke. The show would never have the guts to something like that. Plus, Doctor Lauren is a lesbian, not bi-sexual, so that would be incredibly disrespectful to even think of involving her in such an arrangement. But again, they were joking around.

The Norn (Freaking Norn!) actually did give Bo Dyson's wolf (her eyes glow wolf gold and there's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment when Dyson's wolf expression is blended with hers). She took his love of Bo as her price but she gave him what he asked for which was for his wolf strength to be given to Bo for her battle. "The Norn gives you what you want the most in exchange for what you value most." Dyson most wanted to help Bo in her fight with Aoife, and since Bo stupidly refused help (again!), the only thing he could think to do was supernaturally transfer his strength to her. But what he valued most, what he treasured, was Bo which manifests in his love for her and thus The Norn (Freaking Norn!) took it.